Buy or Sell Their Offseasons: Playoff Hopefuls

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1:26So why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with Stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, continuing our buying or selling off-season series today with a group we're calling the Playoff Hopefuls. We did the rebuilding teams in week one, hit the middle class teams last week.

2:05Today, it's the teams that were either playoff teams last year or hoped to be again, but are maybe one notch down from that group of contenders that we'll talk about next week. A lot of these conversations are about teams that didn't have a ton of wiggle room or a ton of resources this off-season. And that makes sense, right? When you're talking about teams at the bottom of the barrel, they've got tons of money to throw around. They've often accumulated draft capital. It's easy to see their move from point A to point B in a given offseason. It's harder with this group of teams. And so that kind of was in the background, a lot of the discussions that we were having today.

2:37How do we feel about what these teams did, despite the fact that they didn't have a ton to work with? Are they better now? And what were the alternatives they could have sought out that they didn't? So a really good set of discussions here with me, Dave and Derek about the playoff hopefuls. Let's get to it right now.

3:04We are back buying and selling some off seasons today. Our next eight pack of teams on the docket. We're calling this group the playoff hopefuls. The teams that I think have very realistic playoff expectations, even if they're one step down from contender status, that already is probably going to be controversial. I will say this right now. We picked these eight teams based solely on where they sit in the Super Bowl odds. I believe it was on FanDuel. So if you have any issues with these eight teams being categorized or characterized that way, you guys can take it up with whoever made up the Super Bowl odds for FanDuel.

3:42You can couch it however you want, but I'm slightly offended on a couple of these teams behalf. So I can only imagine how their fans are going to feel. Inevitably, there were going to be two teams left out of it. We had 10 teams at the table, right? Yeah. So, Derek, there are going to be two teams left out of the contender status and their fan bases were going to be bad no matter who those two teams were. By limiting it to eight, someone was going to get offended. I tried to do it the most scientific way, and that is bucketing it based solely on Super Bowl odds. Well, this is the most going to piss everybody off tier because like the year before this is like some of those teams probably have some hopes for their season, but realistically know that it's probably not like a Super Bowl year.

4:19Every team in this tier, there may be a couple of questions, but they all mostly believe that they can still be like 10 plus win teams and like make a run if things go right for them. Do you want to list them or do you want this to be like a NBA draft style or NBA lottery style reveal? I actually like the second one better. Okay. I like it. I want to make people wait and see which teams we left off by the end of the podcast and see how pissed off they get. The only team from the last show that I think people might be a little bit annoyed about if you root for that team is maybe the Bengals not being in the playoff hopeful category.

4:50But Bengals fans, like, search your heart. You know, you know, like, what's real. It's been a while since they've been a playoff team. Like, you should also be disappointed in them. This is. When you miss three times in a row. So, yes, when you miss three times in a row, you don't get the benefit of the doubt of like, oh, well, they've got this and got no, you got to at a certain point, you've got to get back there. And again, I think the Bengals fans should also want more for their team. And so this being like a little bit of a punishment, like embrace the fact that we just want more for you.

5:19That's why we did it this way. I mean, we've spent plenty of times ascribing very high minded things to the Bengals. So you can't you can't say we haven't been doing our part. Let's start this off with the team at the bottom of the Super Bowl odds list. And that's the order that I did them in. We're going to go from the lowest Super Bowl odds to the best Super Bowl odds as we go through these eight teams. The first team is the Jacksonville Jaguars. The Jaguars offseason was not very eventful. Traded for Ruka Roro, signed Chris Rodriguez in free agency. It's really one of the only things they did in veteran free agency this year.

5:50Brought back Monteric Brown on a starting level cornerback salary. Lost Devin Lloyd and Travis H. And in free agency in the draft. Also didn't have very many picks. Nate Borkutcher in the second round. Emmanuel Pregnant in the third round. Derek, are you buying or selling the 2026 Jacksonville Jaguars offseason? I mean, on one hand, they were a little bit pinched for resources, which is of their own doing, right? Like with the Hunter trade, they'd already spent some of their money. So they didn't really have that much to do this offseason. And some of even what they did do in terms of letting guys go, like I probably would not have paid Devin Lloyd what he was going to get paid.

6:25So I understand that why they let him walk. And I think Ventrell Miller is like a fine substitute for a year. And so I did a couple of things that I enjoy, like signing Chris Rodriguez as like your cheap running back. I totally get that. It's just really hard to make the case that this roster is better. You know what I mean? Like, I just like, even if I wouldn't have paid Devin Lloyd, you still lose a guy who was a good starter for you and are replacing him with a backup player. I still have a lot of questions about the offensive line. At least there, there's the optimistic spin of like maybe Emmanuel Pregnant steals a starting job and maybe a full year of Colvan Landon, like really instituting himself into the system.

6:59Maybe that helps you a little bit, but that feels optimistic. And even that I don't know what the ceiling for that is going to be. And so I it's just hard for me to see how this roster is that much better, even if like a lot of the moves, given their resources, I kind of understand why they did them. I think it's a really important place to start this entire show, because this is going to be a consistent theme for a lot of the teams we're talking about. When you're discussing the rebuilding teams or even a team one tier up from that, these are a lot of franchises that are multiple years away from competing, have a lot of excess resources.

7:30It's very easy to look at where the Titans were a year ago and look at where they are now and be like, man, the Titans look a lot better because they have so many resources to throw around. almost every single team we talk about, we're going to talk about today is doing stuff that's a little bit more on the margins. And so I think it's a little bit more difficult and a little bit more nuanced and naughty to get to a good answer with this. And I think at the center of all of these, Dave, it's going to be, okay, if we're willing to acknowledge that there was limited resources and you only have so much wiggle room, is the team doing the most they can with those resources?

8:04And I think the other key question is, what would you have liked to see them do differently if they you don't feel like they did enough. I think just kind of centering it back on that with all of these teams throughout the show is going to be important because they're just different types of conversations than the ones we were having over the last two weeks. When I went through this exercise, a big part for me is what what are the expectations? What are you trying to do? And I come away with vastly different opinions about teams that have been in the Super Bowl recently or have shown a Super Bowl type of ceiling in recent years as opposed to teams who are in a different part of their journey where it's like, OK, am I buying that you're a good team that can make the playoffs or am I supposed to buy that you have entered into the status of being like a real deal contender, a type of team that we would put at the table that would be a trendy pick to win the Super Bowl this coming season?

8:57I do buy that the Jags are a good team. I don't hate their offseason given the cap constraints, given the draft pick constraints. And I would add one of the biggest wins that they've got going for him is just that they held on to Anthony Campanelli. And the fact that they get to keep their defensive coordinator, a guy that I would have voted for to win assistant of the year if I had a vote. To have him back there working with this defense and this group of guys, you know, if you're going to bet on Ventrell Miller and some of these other younger guys, Jalen McLeod. I heard Branson Combs getting some love down in Jacksonville during this offseason process.

9:32If you're going to bet on somebody bringing that out of them, I love the idea that Anthony Campanelli oversaw Devin Lloyd's all pro season. So having a coach like that can hopefully even the playing field a little bit. But when you're talking about personnel, I lean more toward what Derek said that I don't think they are a definitively better roster than they were last year. That doesn't mean they can't be a good team. I mean, I don't dislike where they are. I would be a little more excited if they had found a way to do something more. But I think that's a good point that I'm not sure what it would have been.

10:06That's what I get back to. I don't blame them, Derek. It feels like you are somebody that spends your nights just sitting there looking at the depth chart. And so are there areas of that that you would have liked to have seen them do a little bit more with than they did this spring, even given the constraints that we're talking about here? I mean, it's hard to find it. Like, I think if maybe if they would have wanted to sign one of those like mid-tier linebackers instead of a Vontrell Miller, like a Devin Bush or even whoever it would have been, I guess that would have been OK. But like, I think the defense is mostly fine.

10:37I guess cornerback depth now that they don't have Newsom in the building is a little bit of a concern. Like Hunter's coming off a year where he's been injured. Monteric Brown had a nice season. But I think players like that who are a little bit older and have this breakout, you're not 100 % certain, especially at a volatile position like corner, right? that that's always going to sustain. And so I wonder about that a little bit. But I don't think, given that they did not have a first-round pick, and given that they didn't have that much money to throw around, it's not like I looked around at their offseason and was like, man, they missed all these opportunities.

11:08I kind of just think that this is where they are in their build and with their roster and kind of the fallout of having made the trade for Travis Hunter. I really don't want to relitigate the Nate Bo Kircher thing. It's wild that a second-round tight end has sparked this firestorm of discourse. that we've seen. I think part of it is that he started the run on those guys. Yeah. And truly, like, every single person I've talked to in the league over the last two weeks in talking about the draft and what they thought was notable and, you know, the takeaways that they're going to have, so many people have been like, man, that run on day two tight ends was crazy, huh?

11:39And so Borgatrick kind of being the poster child for that and, like, the symbol of the weirdest moment of draft weekend and one I think a lot of people are still trying to get their arms around, I think that's part of why people have kind of fixated on him relative to the other guys like we can easily have the same discussion about marlin klein as we talk about the texans in 10 minutes here but borker has kind of been the flashpoint when it comes to this so the reason i bring it up is if you're asking me what could the jags have done differently i'm not here to say whether nate borker is going to be a good or a bad draft pick but when you make that your first pick of the draft and clearly some people disagreed with it both of the top centers were on the board.

12:18The Bears took Logan Jones one spot later. Anthony Hill, the incredibly athletic, pass-rushing linebacker out of Texas, went a few spots after that. There were talented guys they could have drafted that would maybe look like guys who could make a more immediate need for their team or fill a more immediate need for their team than a second tight end in Jacksonville. And there's no right answer to that. You just have to see how that pick ages. I mean, if Nate Borker is the frickin' man, great job. If some of these other guys that could have gotten on the field or played a larger role faster get off to great starts in their career, then I imagine James Gladstone's going to answer uncomfy questions about it eventually.

12:59There are two things I want to bring up before we move on from the Jags. One, Derek, his interior defensive line and maybe a veteran player in free agency that's less of a question mark than a guy like Ruka Rora where you're paying for maybe an older player or somebody like, I know what I'm getting out of him. Is that an area? Do you think that you could maybe have justified like a mid-tier move like that? I almost would rather have that at the edge now because they at least drafted in the third round. But I guess front in general was my question. Just like more front depth and kind of bolstering than they did.

13:32They did it, but it was with Aurora, who's a young piece that's kind of struggled to find his way in Atlanta. They have multiple draft picks. So I don't think there's a lot of certainty with the depth that they added along the front period. And so I guess, is there a version of this where there's a guy maybe you feel a little bit better about? I know what he is in 2026, either on the edge or on the interior. On the interior, especially at this point, I don't know who it would be. At least there are edge guys. And we talked about this, I think, on the last show. There are edge guys that they could still bring in.

14:02Like AJ Epinesa, I believe, is still out there. Derek Barnett is still unsigned. If they want to be this year's Jadavion Clowney team, if they think he has anything left, they could do that. But like, but I am, obviously there's concerns about their defensive interior. Cause again, Aurora is like more of a finesse player who has really never put it together in terms of somebody who's actually supposed to get into the backfield. I think he struggled to do that. And then they obviously drafted Albert Regis in the third round. Maybe he can give them something. I'm more worried about what the second line of their edge looks like in terms of giving them really anything as like a pass rushing unit.

14:35Looking at it, I think you can make an argument for why they would be better. And I think that's part of why I'm like more accepting of what they did, because it's I do think there's a path to them feeling a little bit different for multiple different reasons. You mentioned this, Derek Van Lannen is going to be the starting left tackle, presumably from the start of the season, rather than something that happened later in the year. You have Travis Hunter, hopefully as a starting corner for the whole year this year, if that's we're going to use him primarily. Jacoby Myers is now going to be there from day one.

15:00And so now you're receiving core. You feel a little bit better about that group. And so I think there is a way for this all to feel a little bit different, even if they didn't bring in a bunch of new players. What's kind of interesting to me is if you look at where the resources are allocated, there's just redundancies along the offensive line in a way that it's kind of nice to have this sort of safety and protection. But at the same time, is this the best way to use it? Like Walker Little is making$15 million against the cap this year. Is he their swing tackle now? Because Van Lannan is now the starting tackle.

15:30They drafted Pregnon and you would think, all right, is there a world where he beats out Ezra Cleveland for one of these gigs or he beats out Patrick McCary for one of those roles? Patrick McCary and Ezra Cleveland, they're not making nothing like their mid tier guard contracts, but they've still paid both of those guys. And so they've kind of doubled down in some ways in some of these positions, including an extension for Van Lannen, while some of these other position groups maybe haven't gotten the sort of injection we might like to see. So that allocation of the resources, I understand how it happens, but it is kind of curious when you actually like open the books and look at them.

16:02And I think the Pregnon pick, like it's fine in the third round, but it's not really an upside swing. Like he's a much older player. I think the idea is you kind of know what you're getting with him. And so the fact that they already have two startable guards and then are doing that, I think, again, I don't know who they would have drafted that I would have thought was like a higher upside swing to do that and maybe develop him behind that. But I do think that that part of it is interesting. The Walker Little of it, at least this regime didn't sign him to that contract, right? And so there is a world where they could have traded him potentially and gotten him off the roster, gotten him off the books that way.

16:34But I at least don't want to kill them that much for that because they're not the ones who signed him to that deal initially. And they kind of stumble into the Van Landen thing last year as the best option for them. And so, again, I understand how it happens. And there's a chance. I mean, you hang on to Walker Little at$15 million and somebody gets hurt in training camp and you can get something for him because he's a playable guy at that spot. All right, let's move on to the next one here. The Chicago Bears, their big signings this spring. Kobe Bryant and Devin Bush in free agency. They lost Tremaine Edmonds, brought in Neville Gallimore, traded for Garrett Bradbury, also lost DJ Moore, and obviously Drew Dahlman retires.

17:09In the draft, bringing Dylan Thienemann at safety in the first round, Logan Jones at center in the second round, another f***ing tight end in the third round, and Sam Rausch, and then drafted Xavier Thomas as well in round three. They originally had those two second round picks and then moved back a couple of times. Dave, are you buying or selling the 2026 Chicago Bears offseason? This goes back to my point from the top of the show. And I've said this a dozen times. I absolutely buy the Bears offseason as a team dealing with some really shit luck, because that's the number one thing that I think you should commend the Bears for.

17:43Thank you. It's a tough blow. It's a tough blow to lose a guy one year into a$42 million deal who was playing up to that contract. And I think that you get, I mean, it's not quite to this degree because other teams are dealing with this as well. But like having Schrapillo tear his patello tendon or whatever it was late in the season, like you can't account for that at a multi-year level as you're building a team. Similar to like what Carolina had to deal with. There's a lot of teams dealing with the fallout of those sorts of injuries. I think the Bears have done a commendable job overcoming that shit luck because to trade for Garrett Bradbury ahead of free agency opening and remove yourself from the spending spree at center and then still get a center that you really, really like in Logan Jones.

18:25That's about as good a job as you could ask a team to do dealing with a completely unforeseeable variable. I agree with that. And on top of that, I'm not trying to sell anybody super hard on it, but Jedrick Wills as a super buy low, hope for the best lottery ticket at left tackle in addition to your other options, as well as bringing back Braxton Jones. I'm just like, great. You caught some shit luck there too. And I feel as though you've put yourself in a decent position considering you lost the guy you would prefer late, late in the year. I was curious what they would do with that left tackle spot beyond bringing back Braxton Jones.

18:59And I think the difference between this and the Carolina situation is that Ike Iquan is in the last year of his deal. So the idea that, well, he'd be back for 2027 matters less to Carolina. Like they might not have him as an option. Trapil, this I think gives you an indication he will be back in 2027. And so they could just do the$5 million band-aid option that Carolina did do before they drafted Freeling in the first round. The other thing, DJ Moore, good player, frustrating player at times. And you have young guys like Luther Burden and Colston Loveland come on during their rookie years, turning DJ Moore, if you've decided that you're done with that, turning DJ Moore into the opportunity to go add three young players to your team.

19:41Because if I'm tracking it right, DJ Moore turned into Sam Rauch, Malik Muhammad, and Keyshawn Elliott, I believe. And so to get three young guys, particularly the super athletic tight end, I mean, you say another tight end, and I'm like, I'm not upset about it. Another tight end, let's go. I actually do think it makes sense for like what they need. They did need a third side end. And this might be like Kemet's last year on the team. So for what they were working with, and again, I've said this a dozen times too, is I just, I don't think the bears need to win the super bowl this year. And so I don't view them that way.

20:17And I'm like, okay, if you're responsibly taking another step into the Ben Johnson era, dealing with some shit luck and fortifying yourself to have more spending money next year and next year can be the year you get a little more aggressive with it. I think that's fine. If you think the Bears need to be in the Super Bowl this year, then I get it if you're selling this offseason. But that's just not where I think they are. And so I'm more willing to buy what they've done here. Yeah, I think Dave absolutely nailed it. Like if you're if you're excited about the Bears for 2027 and 2028 and looking at the flexibility they have, the money, the young core that they have, you should be like over the moon at where this thing is at but i also think the roster right now is probably worse a little bit than it was in 2025 or at least i think it's harder to make the argument that it's improved and again some of that is luck like the trapillo injury dolman retiring and the dolman retiring thing is like the perfect encapsulation of their offseason where it's like it's just kind of bad luck that you ended up in this spot that he retires but then they do all the right things to fix it right like you get a playable center for a cheap trade uh and then you draft a guy in the third round that you like and can hopefully again in 2027 or 2028 take over that job and you'll be fine um I just think that this was a roster where we knew that they won in kind of unsustainable feels wrong but they they was a little bit unsustainable like yeah it was like wrong with saying that yeah like low success rate winning a lot of these games late all this stuff and there's a chance that because it's all young players that you bake in some improvement, right?

21:52But I think that part of the other side of that was like the defense was failing them consistently. And I just, I think there's reason to be excited about the changes at safety, but it's not like last year's safeties were bad. Those guys gave them decent stuff. It's just going to be a very new unit that I think we're going to see how the chemistry plays out. But I'm just not sure that the rest of the defense is any better, even if they've added some okay depth pieces. So this is a team where I think I love where this is going, the three-year outlook. For 2026, I'm not sure it's better. But to Dave's point, like, that's okay.

22:22Like, if this team doesn't win the Super Bowl today, that's fine. I also would add, lest you think I'm being too patronizing, I absolutely think the Bears can win the NFC North. I think this team is capable of, maybe the record won't be as good, but I think they're capable of doing it again. I still think this is a good team. I just don't know that the Bears have taken some kind of meaningful step into being part of the NFL's elite class. On offense, I think you can get behind every single thing that they did. And I do think they did a good job of kind of putting out some of the smaller fires that occurred because of just pure luck things and things that there's no way you could foresee.

22:56I think they're in a really good spot. And I was definitely joking with the Roush thing. Like, I see the vision for it. And I actually like a lot of the way that's coming together. He's fun. The DJ Moore part of this is like, DJ Moore just struck their paying him. Like, that's truly it. And so I do think the team is worse without DJ Moore. I just think it was the right move to trade DJ Moore and move some of that money around. Again, I just think that that was the right way to approach it, even if I do think that DJ Moore is a player worth having. And by the way, they felt that way. It wasn't a situation where they're like, man, we got to get this guy off the roster.

23:27It was if you look at what he's being paid, what we're investing him in, what his role is within the offense, it just makes sense to do this. The defense, I'll say two different things. One, I do think there is a path to the defense being much better, even with only adding those two safeties, Derek. I feel like the types of safeties they added and the potential range it gives you makes the back end feel a little bit different. And with the secondary specifically, I just think it's really important to remember that Jalen Johnson and Kyler Gordon did not play last season as like real versions of themselves at any single point.

24:04And so I think the corner play will be better. I think if I'm trying to find one area where this whole thing leaves me cold, it's the fact that for the most part, the front is going to be the same group of players it was last year. And there are different layers to that, right? Austin Booker and Dai O'Dangbo never played together. By the time Booker came back, O'Dangbo was hurt. So now, even if you're frustrated with O'Dangbo, he's going to be in the mix there with Austin Booker. Shamar Turner played 70 snaps last year as like a second round pick. and so getting him back and healthy hopefully that's one more player to kind of throw at this I just think overall I look at the front and I'm like I still can't get excited about this group but I understand how you arrive here you don't have much money to throw around you've committed financially to so many of these guys that you kind of just have to live with it for another year and then when you go into 2027 that's when you'll be able to move on from Odangbo if you want to move on from Jared if you want to, move on from TJ Edwards if you want to, and that's when you could potentially take a big swing.

25:06And even some of the mid-tier swings that were available this year up front in free agency, who did you want? Like, they couldn't afford a Trey Hendrickson. They couldn't afford a Jalen Phillips. I don't think Odafe always fits what this defense is. Like, do you want to go pay$20 million a year for Boyamafe when you don't have any money? Would that have solved this? I don't even think they could have done it. Probably not, yeah. And so it's a frustrating place to land when you look at the front and you just know in your bones it's still probably not good enough. But at the same time, I don't know how frustrated you can get about the process that led them here specifically this spring.

25:42Because what they're really doing is they're paying for the sins of previous off-seasons by having to live with this group again. And there are a handful of teams on here who are like that, right? Where it's like their off-seasons ended up where they are because of what they had done in previous years. I mean, we literally just talked about that with the Jaguars and the Hunter trade. This is my recurring point. I would way rather try it this way. And I agree with you. If Dylan Thienemann is a capital D dude, the secondary could be pretty sick. And I mean, I'm hoping that Kyler Gordon and Jalen Johnson.

26:12I mean, there's no they would need to be healthy as well. The health is obviously the biggest part of that. But if if the secondary is sick and Ben Johnson said they need to coach the front better, we'll see what that means. I was going to bring that up. That to me is such an unsatisfying thing where it's like, why is the front going to be better? Because we're going to coach them better is just that's a tough thing to hear. At the end of the day, I would still rather I would rather do it this way. And maybe your secondary is great. And maybe you get a little bit more out of the front. Maybe you're a little healthier.

26:42I'd rather do that than do something reckless because you thought you were close. I mean, like Bears fans here in Chicago wanted Max Crosby when that was still on the table, regardless of how realistic it actually is with their finances. I would rather try it this way and then Grady Jarrett could be gone next year. Dio Odango could be gone next year. If you wanted to, you could move on from Montez Sweat early as well and save up a ton of money. And then, like I said, I would feel like one step back. Regardless, you have paths to get aggressive next year. And I just I think this is the responsible way to play it, even if it's less exciting.

27:19Yeah, that's you're going to have to be sitting there telling me that as I watched this team never be able to get out to the quarterback the entire season. Think about how much. Was this the responsible path, Dave? I'm really enjoying the responsible path. Think about how much fun we had watching that Bengals game. It's unbelievable. I don't want to live like that every single week. I really don't. All right, let's take our first quick break and then come back and chat a little bit about the Dallas Cowboys. Summer is right around the corner. It is my absolute favorite time of year, and my favorite thing to do in the summer is spend an entire Saturday afternoon at the pool with my wife, and our daughters.

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31:16Cowboys had an eventful offseason hired Christian Parker as their defensive coordinator additions most of them on defense all of them on defense Jalen Thompson Rashawn Gary D Winters Kobe Durant PJ lock in there is safety depth in the draft Caleb Downs Malachi Lawrence and Deshaibar ham Barsham in the third round who's presumably going to play off ball linebacker they lost Oso Digizua and Dante Fowler Derek are you buying or selling the 2026 Cowboys offseason I think I'm buying it, but this was one where I think as a lot of the things were happening in the moment, I was like, man, I'm so in on the Cowboys.

31:53And then I kind of looked at it in totality, and I'm more just closer to like 55 % buying it, 45 % not. Because I think, you know, the offense I think is a pretty simple discussion. It's mostly going to be the same guys, but they were a top 10 unit last year, arguably even better than that, especially when they had their left tackle for stretches. And so I think I'm not that worried about that. I know we've talked about other teams not doing a whole lot on offense and taking a step back, but this is a lot of proven veterans and a lot of proven guys. I think that they're going to be fine. On defense, how can you not buy what they did in the secondary, right?

32:26Like one, you bring in a coach like Christian Parker, who his whole thing is secondary, but he's also supposed to be one of these up and coming play callers. You get Caleb down. So I think purely on film was probably the best prospect that you were going to get in this class. I think he's incredibly sharp. Obviously, he's going to play. It seems like a lot of the nickel for them. They bring in Jalen Thompson, who I think is good. The moves up front, I think I had a harder time buying. And it's not even necessarily that I hated any of it. It's like I just the picture did not come together to me the way that I wanted.

32:58Like Rashawn Gary, I get why they needed a body. They're paying a lot for a player who has not played up to like at least a Pro Bowl level in a couple of years now. Malachi Lawrence, I know he's a draft pick. He could be anything. I was not as high on him where they took him in the draft. And so it's harder for me to get the clear picture there. And then D Winters is an upgrade, but D Winters is not. I think, again, Dave and I had visions of Jordan Brooks, and he is not Jordan Brooks. So I think it's not over yet, bud. That's true. They could still do it, and they should. If they do, I'll revisit this.

33:27But for now, I just, where I'm at with the defenses, I think they'll be better, and I like the vision. I still think the front does need a lot of work. I shouldn't I shouldn't admit such personal details about my life but I bought my house as is I didn't want to get into a bidding war with people and we had like a certain amount of budget and I also didn't want to go through like weeks of negotiations and we felt good about it like you get an inspection done you feel good about it and you're like okay there's nothing terribly wrong with this place. We'll put in an offer as is. And it worked like we we we skipped through a lot of bullshit.

34:05We got the house and it's super exciting and everything's fine just for the record. But then when you get the house and you bought it as is, you're like, OK, so that's going to need to be replaced, if not now, then in a year or two. And the fence is kind of moldy. That's I'm going to have to do that. And like whatever you find that's wrong with the house is now your responsibility. And it can be a little scary. And that's how I feel about the Cowboys, where I'm buying it. But now that I've got it, I'm like, yeah, there's more wrong here than I would have liked to admit. And it's going to be on me to fix it.

34:43Like, they're definitely a buy. I don't think it's actually as good as it looks when you get excited about it in the offseason. I don't think Rashawn Gary and Malachi Lawrence right now are like a meaningful fix to the pass rush. I don't think the linebacker depth chart is good enough right now unless they were to actually pull off a trade for Jordan Brooks. Anytime you do nothing substantial on one side of the ball, it's worth highlighting. I don't completely buy. I know he signed his franchise tag. I don't completely buy that we're done with the George Pickens saga because this is the Dallas Cowboys and some shit's always going to crop up.

35:21I don't know what the benefit would be to holding out after you sign your tag, but it's not Cowboys training camp until there's some bullshit drama we have to follow. So I've been around the block a few too many times to think we've heard the last of this. So I buy it. I'm interested to watch the Cowboys this year. I don't think the totality of everything is as good as it looked when you were walking around in March looking at everything like, yeah, this is great. I'm buying it. Okay. You're still there. Okay. Get in there. I totally hear everything you guys are saying. I guess with the Rashawn Gary thing specifically, is there something else you would have liked to have seen them done up front, Derek, that they didn't do?

36:06Like, is there an alternative out there that you would have liked more than the combination of Rashawn and the Rashawn Gary thing? They paid him$16 million a year. Like, it's two years,$32 million for Rashawn Gary. That's quiddy pay money. That's not a crazy one. Did they not also trade for him, though? So they traded a fourth round pick for him. Traded a fourth, yeah. And so that's those two things. And that is worth acknowledging. It's not insane capital, but it's at least something. But it's a 27-4th, and most people aren't willing to trade or weren't willing to trade 20-27 draft picks. And so I think that's at least worth acknowledging, but it's not a crazy amount of money.

36:40And so I think overall what they did to reshape the defense without a ton of resources, right? I mean, they had some, but this is still a very expensive roster in part because of everything that you're paying to the offense. And so I think making sure that they fix the secondary as best as they could. And I think a lot of the moves they made in the secondary, including the depth pieces, they've completely remade this thing in a way that I think you can get behind. We talked about Kobe Durant earlier this week when we were discussing the Rams moving off from Kobe Durant, completely remaking their cornerback room.

37:12He's a perfectly acceptable option for a team like the Cowboys based on where they are. So that Jalen Thompson, Caleb Downs, PJ Locke is now your third safety and you do enough up front. Hopefully a lot of this hinges on Malachi Lawrence, but based on all the resources they had and where they ended up, I think I'm okay with the roster moves on defense. this is a lot just me having a lot of faith in Christian Parker and made me thinking this is the right choice and I think part of this and why I'm buying the Cowboys path overall is that I'm so pleasantly surprised by how the Dallas Cowboys have operated over the last year or so and a lot of the like behind the scenes hiring practices the mindset a lot of the things that they've done are things that I would have liked to have seen them do for a while I do think that there have been moments over the last two or three years when I've thought to myself, does this team actually want to win?

38:09Based on what their actions are. You were the number one Cowboys hater. Do they actually want to win? And I was very open about that. And you look at what they've done over the last couple off seasons, the hires they've made, the coaching staff that they've built, and you combine that with some of the stuff they did this year and the fact that they are pushing their chips in a little bit. I'm buying this version of the Cowboys. It's imperfect, and I do think that there are still questions about the defensive roster, but based on where they started and where they are now from January 1st to this moment, I can get on board with what the Cowboys have done.

38:38I don't think you can ever completely override the culture of a building when ownership is as involved in the day-to-day and roster building as the Jones family is. I think Brian Schottenheimer is trying his damnedest to do that. And the results are there. And I want to be clear. I'm in on this in the big picture, but talking about the Cowboys from where they were last year, making meaningful, meaningful strides to potentially winning the division, being in the playoffs. That is a big jump. And it's scary to think that they've pulled that off. I feel good about some of this. I don't think they're quite as good as they need to be.

39:19I don't, I can't get all the way there. It would do wonders for me if come June, they really do swing a trade for Jordan Brooks, which I think is at least still a possibility. if not a likelihood. I guess that part of it is like... This is a nice first step, though. That's not going to make or break it to me. Like, the upgrading from Dee Winters to Jordan Brooks or Damarian Overshown to Jordan Brooks, that's not what's going to make or break it to me. Linebacker in this defense kind of does make it or break it to me. A little bit. I think that that goes a long way in the defensive defense. I think that that goes a long way.

39:52And I know we base this on the odds. This is not a criticism of you, Robert. But, like, just looking at the exercise, where we have the Cowboys bucketed, it's kind of bullshit that the Cowboys would be here and the Bengals are back in the middle class. I guess that's kind of where I sit with it, where I'm like, to throw the Cowboys up into playoff contender status after where they've been the last couple years, they're being fast-tracked. I don't know that what they've done coincides with that sort of discourse about them, even if I do feel good about where they are. We talked about it in the moment on the Bengals show.

40:27To me, the biggest and the most key difference is that when you sweat-wop out the coordinator and you have a different person in charge of, like, building everything about this thing, it is just so much easier to talk yourself into that unit taking a massive leap forward. I think for the Bengals, again, even with all the additions that they made, it's harder to get yourself to a place where you see them going from 30th in every defensive metric to 12th. With Dallas, the fact that you're not just adding these pieces, you're bringing an entirely new approach to that side of the ball, it's easier for me to imagine that sort of leap for the Cowboys, which is, it's just harder for the Bengals.

41:04This is a crazy thing to say about a unit that was as bad as I've ever seen last year, but I'm excited to watch the Cowboys secondary. Like Jalen Thompson, I think is a really good player. Kobe Durant, y 'all already stood on the table for him, but I refuse to let the playoffs completely color the season that he had last year. And obviously Caleb Downs is a huge part of that. Like this won't be the best secondary in the league, but it's one of the worst I've ever watched last year. And I think it'll be pretty fun this time around, especially with Christian Parker orchestrating it. In my, to me, the best case scenario here, again, when you have this kind of mystery box as a play caller, and there are certain elements of this defense and the personnel that are different than the team I'm about to mention.

41:45But what if Christian Parker is just like Jesse Minter? like is the couple is defensive personnel that much worse than what the brought what the Chargers have been working with over the last couple years to be like a back half of the top 10 defense or I don't really think so I think the I think the edge and linebacker rooms are less talented than than the Chargers room I think 100 % I agree with definitely but I don't know why don't the linebackers scare you I just don't think they scare me that much they should I like D winters and I like DeMarvion overshown. It's not enough as it stands right now.

42:22I just don't think overall the talent level is that bad if, again, the overall defensive infrastructure and ecosystem we're talking about aren't going to be enough to get them where they want to go. I just think that is on the table for me, even with some of the roster concerns. We have to move on. Yeah, we do. Alright, let's talk about the other team in Texas. The Houston Texans brought in Wyatt Teller, Braden Smith, traded for David Montgomery, Reed Blankenship, Logan Hall in free agency brought back at Ingram. Tim Settle and Christian Kirk, the main losses this year in the draft. We got Keelan Rutledge in the first round, Caden McDonald and Marlon Klein in the second round.

42:58Dave, are you buying or selling the 2026 Houston Texans offseason? I buy it. I'm worried that I'm going to wind up liking it on paper way more in May than what we see during the season. What makes you say that? we talked about it on a previous show but mainly the I mean the offensive line and what it looks like on paper looking at the depth chart you're like this is awesome Wyatt Teller is a good player Braden Smith is a good player I think we should have pumped the brakes a little bit more on Wyatt Teller than we've been doing over the last two weeks that's that's my no that's actually my point though is like it's easy to look at him on a depth chart and say this is an upgrade from what you had but what does that really mean and what will it look like in practice odds are for one reason or another, it won't be as good as I can convince myself it looks right now.

43:46And I think you can say the same thing about Keelan Rutledge. It's very fun to get excited about him. And everything I've seen is really cool. But the odds that he just takes it and runs with it and is immediately this amazing player, hopefully that happens. But it's not a realistic way to look at this. And so it's easy to say, look how much better and tougher the offensive line is this is and and David Montgomery's there to run behind him and get the tough gritty yards and that's all very exciting is it actually going to play out that well in practice I hope so but I've done this enough times to think the reality probably won't be as rosy as what I'm imagining right now I think I am buying it because and I do fear I'm doing a little bit of the same thing and I think for me it's not necessarily like the name value of it all It's I think sometimes and I talked about this a little bit when we did the cold takes with the Titans defense where it's like because I soak obviously by what the identity is supposed to be.

44:44I might be overrating how good it might actually end up because like again Teller Rutledge Montgomery has like a grind them down runner like this is an offense that wants to beat the shit out of you up front and then throw all those play action shots down the field to Nico Collins and all these other big receivers Jaden Higgins and guys like that. And so I can buy the vision. And this was still an offense that like they could find explosives last year. The issue was just that their down to down play was just not good enough. They could not get out of second and longs. They were in a lot of third and longs because the run game was not good.

45:17And then even I think the short passing game was not as good as it needed to be on some of those downs. And so if that can just be 10 % better because we made a lot of these upgrades, I'm buying it for that. My really only concern is one, a little bit of that. Maybe I'm looking at the offensive line through rose-colored glasses. The defensive edge depth does worry me a little bit, but there are at least guys on the market that they could go pay$8 million to to solve this problem. As I look at it, I think the argument, my question with the offensive line is, the offensive line is different, and it's probably better, but how much better?

45:51And I think the argument that you're maybe a little bit more sound at tackle with Ursary in year two and Braden Smith, and you're figuring out on the interior versus last year, where by moving Titus Howard to guard, you were figuring out a tackle for the second half of the year. I do think that just being like, hey, we got all these bodies on the interior. Jake Andrews, Wyatt Teller, Rutledge, we will figure it out. We will get three guys that we feel good about, and we really feel good about the stability that we have at tackle. And then you combine that with, David Montgomery is kind of a calming force in the run game, but also just in pass protection.

46:24Like having a David Montgomery is that sort of presence in so many different areas of the offense. I do think is a really good thing for this team specifically. And so while I do think the offensive line and the improvement is more theoretical than it is proven in practice, I'm hopeful about how this can work out. And then when you extend everything to the defense, I just like the plan of what they did on defense this offseason. Like the Keelan Rutledge thing is like a pivot point for what you can be up front and the body types you're seeking out. Caden McDonald. Jesus. Caden McDonald has been a pivot point.

46:56Yeah, listen, just throw Keelan Rutledge over there too. So Caden McDonald is being like a pivot point for what the defensive front can feel like. I totally buy into that. And read Blankenship is like exactly. We talked about this with a lot of this type of safety over the last week or so, but just throw$7 million at it. And then you get to sleep a little bit better. Like that's exactly what read Blankenship is. And like, it's supposed to be within this defense. And so I I'm, I'm on board with it. Like I do believe in what they did, even if I think there are still more questions about the overall quality of the offensive line than maybe you like when you make this many moves.

47:31But I'm with Derek in that I'm buying into the mindset shift being the most important thing that can come from the types of players that they've added there. And the other thing I would say is you can't guarantee it'll work out. I don't fault the thought process and what they're trying to do. So from that standpoint, I absolutely buy it, even if I'm a little on guard about how well it actually works. The Green Bay Packers brought in Jonathan Gannon as their defensive coordinator. Bobby Babich is their passing game coordinator, which I think is kind of interesting and worth noting. Those are two very different worlds, like where Bobby Babich came from with the Bills and what Jonathan Gannon has traditionally done, and so I think that's worth throwing out there.

48:08Not a ton of veteran additions this offseason. Tyrod Taylor is now the backup quarterback, bought in Javon Hargrave, traded for Zaire Franklin. Lost Romeo Dobbs, Quay Walker, and Kingsley Anagbare in free agency. In the draft, no first-round pick. Cornerback Brandon Cisse in the second round. defensive lineman Chris McClellan from Mizzou in the third round and Denis Dennis Sutton out of Penn State on the edge in the fourth round Derek are you buying or selling the Green Bay Packers offseason yeah Derek I think I'm selling a little bit like I it's hard for me to get there with a lot of what they did and this is another team where they were pinched for resources right they spent a lot of their money last year on Aaron Bank go look at how much money they're spending on Aaron Banks by the way and how long until they can actually get out of that deal this is one of those where I looked at what they did in free agency last year and even in the moment and even talking to people there it was kind of like what is Nate Hobbs supposed to be like are you going to play him outside is he going to play in the slot and again I just think that they have this ah well he can play all over the place mindset with these players sometimes and it gets them in trouble but the Packers 2025 offseason was pretty curious and I think a lot of that stuff has come home to roost a little bit they are they are paying for those sins and then again like you make the mica trade there's nothing wrong with that but because you don't have a first round pick then it's harder to add any talent this year and like continue to reload there and so they were just pinched and like there were some of their creative solutions to some of these things I actually think was fine like letting Quay Walker go and going to trade for Zaire Franklin like that's a good solution to the problem I think agreed um signing Javon Hargrave I think is like a nice little this team had no defensive tackle depth getting a guy who played fairly well last year uh even if in spurts I think was nice reloading at corner was probably the right move given I think defensively that was their biggest issue last year and just getting more bodies there is good but the big thing with the Packers and I think why they've been easy to get excited about over the last two seasons really is that the depth especially at offensive line and wide receiver it was everywhere and so even if you couldn't find all these stars it was like man they just have so many guys where it's hard to see the bottom falling out well now they're in a position where Jordan Morgan has to start at left tackle Anthony Belton has to start at right guard Sean Ryan has to start at center.

50:19These were all propositions that if it happened last year, then it happened. Now they are stuck in that spot. And the same thing is obviously true of the receiver core when they lose Romeo Dobbs and Dontavian Wicks. Now Matthew Golden has to play, at least with Golden. I actually do think people got down on him too quickly. I think there is still a lot of talent there. He was a first round pick. I think he could be good, but they're just stuck in so many of these spots where guys who were top 75 picks depth, maybe they win the job guys you know last year or two years ago they all now have to start because they have just not like all the other guys who were starting ahead of them just had to walk out of the door the other thing i would point out that confounds me about the packers is several of their biggest blue chip players that would make you feel better about them are coming off of really scary injuries there's nothing you can do about that no there's nothing you can do about it but does it or does it not affect how you feel about the packers heading into the season I'll spin it this way.

51:18The fact that all those guys were hurt at the end of the year, are we too down on what the end of season 2025 Packers were because Tucker Craft, Avante Wyatt, Micah Parsons, all of those guys were hurt. They're all coming back from injury now, but I think the fact that they were hurt maybe is coloring our maybe overall pessimism about this team more than it should. I would say no, and we actually had a fun discussion about this in our Discord last week. they were frustrating before before crafts even went down let alone parsons and like not to say they were bad they were just a frustrating inconsistent team the arizona game the cleveland game like carolina the carolina game like they were frustrating before all of that stuff was frustrating well that was more than that game was disgusting i'm like oh jesus i forgot about the philly game well the philly's a good team obviously but the fact that that was an ugly game than a frustrating game.

52:09So I would argue no, just because they were confounding before a lot of that happened. I think that's fair. I'm more just like pushing back a little bit on the idea that the Packers were some failure last year when in reality, like they did get hurt toward the end of the season when they were on their way to potentially being like 11, three and one. I think that's fair. But my point, and you're right, it's not their fault. It's shit luck. Very similar to the Bears with with Drew Dahlman, but blue chip players that are supposed to be able to lift things and make you feel better like Micah Parsons, when's he available?

52:38Will it be week one? Will it be week five? And what's he look like? Same goes for Tucker Kraft. Devontae Wyatt, Zach Tom is another guy worth mentioning where he has also heard. And I, you know, some of these guys like Kraft and Tom, it sounds like they'll be able to do stuff in training camp. But what do you look like? How quickly do you get back to looking like the guy we remember? That just influences a lot of my opinion here. And so that combined with everything Derek just said about losing some depth, about having to pay for previous decisions. Yeah, I kind of sell it. If I'm looking for copium, it would be, and I think the irony here is funny because we've been super high on the Packers too soon recently.

53:21What if the Packers are this year's team that looks a hell of a loss a hell late in the year than they do at the start because Micah Parsons starts turning it on in week eight and Tucker Craft gets better and better. like the fact that I'm selling this right now doesn't necessarily mean the Packers are a worse team because they have that stuff in their back pocket but as far as how their offseason has gone which is the question I'm selling it I think there are two different considerations here one the Packers absolutely all this stuff could come into could fall into place but I think like Derek alluded to it's exactly what I had in my notes like all of these guys that were now that where used to be depth pieces or were kind of rotational players, contributors have to be load-bearing players, especially your last three first-round picks.

54:08Like Lucas Van Ness, Jordan Morgan, and Matthew Golden, based on what the rest of the roster looks like, those guys have to be good for you. And Van Ness took a step forward last year. I'm also still optimistic about Matthew Golden. The Jordan Morgan one is probably the biggest question. Like he's just left tackle. Like how's that going to go? And so there's just more fragility overall to the entire situation here, even if I'm open to the idea that this is still a good roster with a relatively high upside overall. And so that's the thing. Like, I think the star players give you some sort of ceiling.

54:41To me, it's the offensive line. We're going into last year. You could at least spin it where some of these guys were just in the mix, but not necessarily earning starting jobs. And it's like maybe this works out and they can find the best five. the fact that all those guys now are just the starting players and the offensive line was not good last year. And I know some of these guys will be playing different positions than they played, but like, that's where it's hard for me to like buy what is happening here. And I mean, that's the, that's, you could spin it the other way. Like, right. Like the awesome offensive line wasn't good last year.

55:06This is a different group. Like Sean Ryan at center and out in the guard. Like we only saw that for like a stretch of the back half of the season. Then Tom got hurt. Like it's possible that they're just better across the board, but there are absolutely more question marks. The last thing, Derek, I would ask you, And again, I think it's important to kind of bring it back to this question for all of these teams. Would you have done anything differently? Like, even if they had limited resources, is there something you would have liked to have seen them do that they didn't do that would make you feel better right now?

55:36I mean, it's hard because, again, the offensive line is my biggest issue. But almost like the Bears' pass rush, they are just, like, so heavily invested here that it's like I— They're committed to it. They drafted those guys. They drafted or paid them. Again, like Aaron Banks cost them a lot of money. And so it's like they are pretty committed to a lot of those guys. I don't know if there's anything I would have done. Again, this is the corner they've kind of just painted themselves into with the Micah Parsons trade, some of the money they spent last year. And this is not a team that because they have a handful of other expensive deals, like they're paying their quarterback, they're paying Micah Parsons a lot of money.

56:06They don't have that much cap space for 26, 27, 28 right now. I don't think that there was a big move for them to have been made. So if I looked at it, maybe there were one or two small ancillary things they could have done. but probably not a lot of moves that would have been like, man, I feel so much differently about them now because of this. They've got a good chunk of space and flexibility next year, but they need new contracts for Tucker Craft. Christian Watson's going to need a new deal after this year. And so they've got some looming financial decisions to make on top of, like you said, they've committed to a lot of big money players over the last couple of years.

56:39All right, before we get to the Eagles, let's take our next quick break.

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58:21The Philadelphia Eagles hired Sean Manning as their offensive coordinator, replaced Jeff Stetland as their offensive line coach, traded for Jonathan Gernard, traded for Dontavian Wicks, and signed Hollywood Brown, signed Reek Wollin at corner, also brought in Arnold Evachetti on the edge. Losses, presumably A.J. Brown? I don't know. It's going to be—I'm just going to act like he's not on the team as we have this discussion. I think that's just a little bit easier. We don't have to wait that much longer. It's mid-May already. Jalen Phillips also gone, N 'Kobe Dean and Reed Blankenship. In the draft, Makai Lemon in the first round, Eli Stowers in the second round to tight end, Markel Bell in the third round.

58:57Dave, are you buying or selling the 2026 Philadelphia Eagles offseason? Answer this question for me, and I'll tell you what I think. How much better does Hollywood Brown, Makai Lemon, and Dontavian Wicks make you feel about not having A.J. Brown? the entire my entire thought process with this team is i'm buying it because i think they protected themselves in the areas they should have based on the guys they either lost or theoretically going to lose jalen phillips not coming back trading john chaining jonathan gurnard to make that happen knowing that you're probably losing aj brown getting makai lemon and also other pass catching pieces is part of that the only thing we can talk about this that i'm kind of like i don't know how this totally fits based on like what they need and where they're going and where the holes are is like the Eli Stowers skill set in the second round being the thing they should have sought out there like that's the only thing to me that I it's kind of just like floating out there in a way I don't totally understand not even criticizing it I just don't totally get it almost everything else they did I think is a very good reaction to either the guys you're losing this offseason or the guys you never had like the second the number two outside corner that they didn't have all of last year so I think I'm answering your question with a definitive I think I am buying it overall I think in totality I buy the Eagles offseason because I implicitly trust the people making these decisions aka Howie Roseman and I mean the Jonathan Grenard thing is such a perfect example of why you trust the Eagles and the advantage that they have in terms of team building to use to use a three for Jalen Phillips because you know you're going to get them for Milton Williams and Josh Sweat.

1:00:37And so you feel comfortable doing that. Then you turn around and use a current three, which you have because of Milton Williams and a future three on Jonathan Grenard, which by the way, that future three is going to come back to you because of the comp pick that you're going to get from Jalen Phillips because he signed a$130 million deal. It's just incredibly smart team building. We said it in March that the Reekwollen signing is like for the price and the lack of investment. Like one year, you're not tied to him for the long term and it's not that big of a price tag. It's an amazing way to address your secondary.

1:01:12I like so much of what they've done in the big picture. And that's what I admire about Philly is they're usually a year or two ahead of things. My only qualm is, and again, it goes back to what your expectations are for the Eagles. They won a Super Bowl two years ago. They were in another one before that. This feels like a team that should be pushing, pushing, pushing. and it was confounding that they weren't better last year. And getting rid of a guy who I still think really highly of in A.J. Brown goes contrary to that. And maybe it'll be good in the big picture, right? Like over two or three years, maybe that is the right thing to do.

1:01:49But if you're on the cusp of getting back to the Super Bowl and maybe you should have gone deeper in the playoffs than you did last year, is that the right thing to be doing? I guess the counter argument to that would be the vibes in Philly when they're bad they're really bad and maybe moving AJ Brown out of here is a chance to address that and reset the vibes a little bit I don't mean to paint AJ Brown as the only problem here but why else would you do something like this like it it doesn't feel like it should have to happen and I think that's weird I don't think in an ideal world they would have traded AJ Brown on a football level I just think that we got to a place where it had run its course yeah I mean I think that's it I again I think your football team is better off with AJ Brown than it is with Makai Lemon and that collection of guys even if you're excited about Makai Lemon but at a certain point like I it really did feel like the entire relationship with him and the franchise him and the quarterback had kind of run its course well and so that's kind of where I'm at with their offseason I think from a pure on the spreadsheets roster building perspective they did a phenomenal job like signing Tariq Woolen doing the swap for Jalen Phillips and then trading for Jonathan Grenard, adding some of the other depth that they did at the edge.

1:03:05Like you said, Robert, insulating themselves from the looming trade of probably knowing that A.J. Brown is going to be gone, making sure that we have four or five playable guys next to Devonta Smith. I think that that was like a really, really good job by them. I have a hard time buying it overall, at least for 2026, when they have clearly pissed off two of the five most important people in the building to the point that they're going to be gone in AJ Brown and Jeff Stoutland like that that's deeply concerning to me in terms of like how good can this team really be because we haven't really seen this version of the Eagles be like a high level team without a dominant offensive line and obviously it's a lot of the same pieces but Lane Johnson's getting older Landon Dickerson was not really healthy last year they're losing Jeff Stoutland like I think even though we're in a spot where you can see some of the talent and I like some of the roster moves that they made overall looking at the picture i just it's hard for me to feel like this thing is moving in the right direction at a certain point didn't you need to try to do something different offensively like at a certain point wasn't it time to just be like hey we got to start over and i think well yes but the quarterback is still there well that and well Well, here's the thing.

1:04:21Maybe he won't be. Yeah. That's kind of my thing here is that this to me feels like a, all right, we're trying this. We're trying to take this in a different direction. If it doesn't work, what gets, what goes on the table when it comes to potential options and pads in 2027? Like, I just don't think that's a crazy way to be thinking about this team and like where they could go from here. And so I get like, obviously losing Jeff Stalin after what he's been is a huge loss. but at the same time it just seemed like they were starting from square one offensively and this was just the casualty of that where it for you know they're going to bring in they're maybe not going to have him be as much part of the run game whatever it was going to be and so i obviously losing him is a huge deal but i understand why they felt like they needed to go in a different direction based on how much they had pigeonholed themselves on that side of the ball over the last couple years the only reason i don't agree with you completely is just and he was a well-established offensive play caller with a lot of cachet to him but like kellen moore came in on the back end of a very embarrassing season and they won a super bowl like did do the eagles need to reinvent the wheel to be successful because they didn't reinvent the wheel to turn 23 into 2024 they changed out the play caller for a better one that's that's all they did but i also think if you look at what that team was like they just stopped throwing the ball like it's not they didn't figure it out on that side of the ball they just stopped throwing the ball and I just don't know if that is like a viable way to solve this problem again like just asking well let's let's just do the 2024 thing again yes I just don't know how possible that was when you consider what that actually looked like in practice and I think that that's actually fair like what 2024 was they they caught lightning in a bottle where they were the best run game in the league as a spread run game mostly and were the most explosive run game like it just by far like they they probably weren't going to do that again in 2025 2026 whatever it was going to be at that level at least obviously that could be your identity if you wanted it to be I just the pivot to me should not have involved moving the really really good offensive lineman or offensive line coach and run game coordinator out of the building and again I don't know how all those things transpired I think that was his choice though I don't think that was something.

1:06:43But how did they arrive there is kind of my question. I don't think they should not have been. Because you can probably say that about A.J. Brown, too. Like, it's his choice that he wants to be off of the Eagles, I think. And to me, it's just why have they arrived in a spot where both of those people wanted to be out of the building? That's where it makes it hard for me. It's fair. I just don't know if, like, the rotting vibes over the last couple of years, we should take that into account and we think about whether they did the right things this offseason. I just I think in I think in a big enough picture.

1:07:11And again, I trust the way they do this. They've reinvented themselves and pivoted so many times. And I trust that in a long enough timeline, it's going to be successful. But are you a better team without and good, good job, Derek, shouting out Jeff Stoutland as part of this, too. But even if you eliminate coaching and just say, are you a better team without A.J. Brown, even if A.J. Brown's not being maximized the way that he would prefer. I think my answer is no, even if I understand why it's happening and why in the big picture it can work. Are you better in 2026 without AJ Brown? I don't think I can get all the way there.

1:07:49I think that's fair. I just think there's so many different considerations as to why AJ Brown is no longer on the Eagles that go beyond whether you're a better football team. No, I think they had to weigh those. I think that's, I think that's the right answer, but I'm, I'm curious to see exactly how good it looks, at least in year one. Let's get to our final two teams here. the Detroit Lions. Drew Petsing in as the offensive coordinator, signed Cade Mays in free agency, also brought in Larry Borum as Drew Scruggs and Drew Scruggs' offensive line depth. In the secondary, Roger McCreary, Christian Izzy, and Chuck Clark as kind of like a piecemeal group as they deal with a lot of those injuries from last year.

1:08:26Lost David Montgomery, Al-Kadeen Mohamed, Taylor Decker. They moved on from Taylor Decker and then Alex Anzalone leaves in free agency. In the draft, Blake Miller in round one, Derek Moore in round two, the pass rusher. Derek, are you buying or selling the 2026 Detroit Lions offseason? I think I'm. They're a tough one. I think I like how they are. I don't even know if I want to say that. I like Blake Miller, but here's my issue with the Blake Miller pick. They could have had a couple of other guys who were going to play left left tackle for them, and they're obviously choosing to take Pene Sewell, move him from right tackle to left tackle, and he could obviously do that he's an all pro player but to me it's like that just feels like that opens up two avenues of volatility and questions of moving him and then drafting a young player that's so interesting instead of just opening the one of just like drafting Monroe Freeling and now you only have the one I think I would I'd be able to get on board with that in almost any other situation two things are influencing me here one better like right or wrong the Tristan worse thing yes absolutely in the back of my mind I guess I watch a team just do this and I want to soften my stance on how much of a mistake I think this is to watching all the offensive tackle prospects and considering what your line would look like with all of them so like let's just play it out like all right so at left tackle you have either Monroe Freeling or Max Tahanach or one of these like really high ceiling kind of prospects and you keep Penny Sewell on the right side that's a version of this by flipping it the way that they did you are swapping out two positions.

1:10:01And so that is inviting volatility. But I think as a player, Blake Miller is less volatile than a lot of these other guys. And so I think you can make an argument that that path actually has less volatility overall. Like they're going for more of a safe solution by doing this, even if it involves Penny Sewell moving to left tackle. Like that's the vibe I get from how they landed on this version of it. And I think I get that. Like day one, Miller probably is a safer prospect, but like, Like, even though Freeling was billed as this, like, project-y guy, like, I think he would be fine from day one if he had to start, and I think he'll still be a really good player.

1:10:35So maybe that's just me weighing too heavily how I thought about these players. And I'm probably weighing too heavily what the floor on a guy like Blake Miller is. We do this shit all the time where it's just like, well, he's just a high field player. He's going to be fine, and then that doesn't happen. And so I at least want to admit that that's a possibility. But if I'm trying to, like, figure out their line of thinking, I think that version of it makes sense to me. And again, I want to be clear. I still think this will work out. Like I liked Blake Miller a lot. And then getting Cade Mays at center, I think was good too.

1:11:02And so hopefully better play around those guards will also lift their level of play. I think the offensive line with Drew Petsing in their calling plays, I think the offense can be fine and good. I think my thing with them in totality is they are another team where they're paying for the sins of previous off seasons, specifically previous drafts, where like they over the last three years have only had one third round pick and it was Isaac to slot. and it's because they keep trading them away they had traded away a future first third round picks to get isaac tesla so he's not just one third round pick right they trade multiple third round picks to get him uh to make their only third round pick basically they had traded one to uh up to get sione vacchi at one point giovanni manu they had traded up and davis was a third round pick exactly like they have just moved all of their third round picks um off of the roster and in 2023 this isn't like trading one but in 2023 they spent a first or a third round pick on Hendon hooker which just like to me was a throwaway pick even at the time and obviously he's not even on the roster now as a backup and so they've just kind of burned a lot of these picks that are supposed to be your kind of not like back end of the roster but like your mid-level like lower level starters for you and they just don't have a lot of that because like the core of this team is awesome like their best seven players are as good as any team in the nfl the next 45 guys i think you have a lot of questions about i've said this already but the nfc north pisses me off like tell me throw out an order of the four teams and i would be like yeah i could see that i absolutely could see that i i think the lions are still a playoff caliber team i think they could win the NFC North.

1:12:43I think it slipped a little bit from where it was like two years ago because of all the reasons that Derek just outlined. I will say, though, I would be up here selling the shit out of this, except I really do love what they did at offensive line that much. And I think it's valid. Maybe the Tristan Wirfs thing is coloring my opinion too much, but Panay Sewell is that caliber of athlete and that caliber of player. I think Panay Sewell will be able to switch to left tackle seamlessly and Beller, you can clip this out for our cold takes exposed episode. If I'm wrong next year, I think he's going to be awesome.

1:13:18I think we don't know how well it's going to work, but I understand the logic of drafting the guy that started 42 college games at right tackle. That makes perfect sense to me. Cade Mays is there. And I, so I look at the offense and I'm like, okay, I could see this offensive line really kicking ass and being the engine for another really great Lions offense. Maybe Isaac Tesla, like maybe he just only does circus catches. Maybe he's just going to be freaking amazing in his second season. We have no idea what he is, right? In theory, Isaac Tesla could be a much bigger, have a much bigger role and be a much more important part of the offense than he was.

1:13:52But I think like Derek said, it's important to acknowledge they spent a lot to get him. Yeah, of course. If I were a Lions fan, I'd be excited about what it would look like with a larger sample size. Not to say it'll definitely work. I would just be excited. the defense is really where you lose me and it just it just kind of it feels like like squeezing a lump of jello and trying to keep it from coming out of the different gaps in your hand where it's like oh well we drafted we drafted Derek Moore but does that replace like is that enough opposite Aiden Hutchinson like do you have enough in your edge rusher room have you done enough to offset the fact that Kirby Joseph and Brian Branch are not fully healthy and Brian Branch, at least that's going to go right up to the season.

1:14:36I mean, we talked about Christian Izzy in earlier this week. That's a fun buy low sell high sort of thing, but you can't count on that. Roger McCreary looks like he's going to play meaningful snaps for this defense. I just I don't love the totality of it at all. I think it's worth mentioning. It's easy to say Isaiah Pacheco is just David Montgomery light. I can't say I feel awesome about that in 2026. Jameer Gibbs is an incredible player, but he's never had to be the workhorse in the backfield. I mean, he's averaged like 14 carries per game over the course of his career to this point. So if Isaiah Pacheco isn't as good as David Montgomery, what sort of impact could that have?

1:15:17So like there's there's a lot here to like, but in totality, I'm just like that. This this doesn't look like the juggernaut that it was two years ago, at least not on paper. I get everything that you guys are saying and I don't necessarily disagree I think if I were trying to push back or just maybe play devil's advocate a little bit when you look at the front specifically the idea that like well it's just Derek Moore next to Aiden Hutchinson how's that gonna go that's not really any worse than the shape that spot was in over the last couple years and this defense has played at a high level during some of those stretches Aleem McNeil played 10 games last year but he clearly wasn't right coming off of an injury and And so the idea that he's going to maybe potentially be the second most important player in your front one year removed from that injury, I can get on board with that.

1:16:03And in the secondary, it's like, well, if Kirby Joseph and Brian Branch are going to be back in week two, how much do you really want to spend on whatever the contingency plans are at those spots when you've already really committed to Kirby Joseph? And I assume you're going to be committing to Brian Branch here pretty soon. So it's, I don't know. That part of it I actually want to talk about because this was kind of the thing with their 2023 draft class. And, like, I'm not usually the, you know, how much are we paying or not paying non-premium positions, whatever. But the fact that in 2023 it was, like, running back, linebacker, tight end, safety, and all of them are obviously worth paying.

1:16:39Like, all of those players, you know, Sam Laporta, Jameer Gibbs, Jack Campbell, Brian Branch. That's the thing. is that for this year, and maybe this is a like next offseason problem, but like which of those guys do they decide are actually the core of this team in 2027 moving forward? I think that is some decisions they could start to make this offseason, but I think where they decide to go with that, I am very interested about. I assume all of them will be back. And I actually misspoke before I said that Packers had$60 million in 2027 space. I had the Lions in mind. They're in a very similar spot where I think they have like 15, 18 million right now for 2026, not a ton of wiggle room.

1:17:14then they have more in 2027 the packers have like 40 with a couple guys to sign craft and watson the lions have 60 but mccreary excuse mccreary he's at the top of the free agent list they got to pay roger mccreary how are they that's that's where the money's gonna go the third uh the three guys on that list right now campbell sam laporta and brian branch all need to get paid heading into next year and then the jameer gives contract is needs to happen even though his 2027 cap it is probably not going to be higher than 14 million which it is right now you so you think all four of those guys will get extensions with the lions i kind of think they have to like what are the alternatives going to be at those spots i don't know it just does feel like it didn't the colts have a roster build like this like five years ago it was a lot of money at like linebacker and and safety and tight at like and all this and running back obviously with and i don't think that that's wrong but i just don't know it would feel they would feel like the only team in the league that is built like this and maybe they are okay with doing that i think it would just be like kind of shocking well what i would say to that is they're also paying guys at premium positions it's not totally paying guys there they they're paying two wide receivers they're paying a quarterback they're playing they're paying a tackle they drafted another tackle in the first round they're paying an interior defensive lineman they're paying a pass rusher so it's mostly just that they've drafted a lot of guys that they're going to need to pay.

1:18:34It's not that they're over allocating resources to non-premium positions. Well, but it's that's the thing, though. How many top of the market deals can you really have on your team at the same time? The answer to that question is going to be how much money do you want to spend? Because I mean, I guess part of this overall conversation, Jared Goff is a 62 million dollar cat pit next year. That is likely not going to happen. Yeah, that's got to change. And so So they have massive salaries on their books right now. Goss at 40 million. I'm on Raza 24. Alim McNeil's at 22 Penny Sewell's at 24. So the answer to how many of these guys you can afford is going to be how many checks does the Ford family want to write?

1:19:13Because you can try to outrun this thing and try to retain all of these guys for the foreseeable future if you want to. I wonder if that's ultimately what's going to happen. Goff has a$62 million cap hit next year and then a$70 million cap hit in 2028. So if you just want to keep pushing that money out, that is an option for you. That'll be his age 34 season. We've done three of the four NFC North teams on this show. And for all three of them, I'm just like, I think they could win the division. I don't, I'm not willing to say that they're like a Super Bowl favorite. And that's, I mean, it's a frustrating thing to try to parse out.

1:19:51And that's how I feel about the Lions, the Packers and the Bears. The Lions offense. The last thing I want to say about this is I think their bet on offense was with better health and then more physicality. Right. Like swapping out Graham Glasgow for Cade Mays is like you're you're making a very pointed shift there by better health and more physicality up front. And an offensive coordinator that we think will just play nice and like be somebody that is a active part of how we're trying to be a football team. is that enough for us to be really really good on offense next year i kind of buy that like i kind of buy that that might be enough for them to be really really good on offense again next year and i will say that i'm open to that possibility too because they were closer last year than we like they were still a really good offense last year they just weren't the second best offense in the league like they were still really explosive the down to down just wasn't as good yeah they were just more inconsistent we've talked about that a lot like i believe that they can find some of that consistency and be really good.

1:20:48I think the defense is where the questions come into play, but I also don't really have a ton of issues with how they handled what they did with the resources that they had. Well, speaking of teams, what they did with the resources that they had and being a little bit confounded by it, the Denver Broncos this off season traded for Jalen Waddle.

1:21:09That's it. That's what the Broncos did this off season. They lost John Franklin Myers, lost straight Greenlaw and didn't make a pick until the third round. Like it's crazy looking at the Broncos depth chart. Unlike our lads, you look at every other team and there's yellow for new signings and whatever color the rookie, the rookies are in. And it, there's so many different changes. You look at the Broncos depth chart, top to bottom. There is one new player among the 22 starters. The Broncos and the Jags. It's very similar where you're just, you're expecting to see all the different colors and you're just like, Nope, we're running it back.

1:21:44the Broncos doing nothing other than trading for Jalen Waddle if you even look at the second line on our lens there's only two changes and one's one would be a backup offensive lineman who is like not going to play unless he absolutely needs to so how do we feel about this okay I feel strongly about this so I'll jump in and say I'm buying the shit out of it actually I I honestly I view the Broncos as a contender I I'm I'm all in and I don't blame them for anything that they did wrong. Jonathan Frank, Jonathan Franklin Myers is a guy that I like a lot. It is a little curious that they let him go, but made$21 million a year.

1:22:20Actually, I let me rephrase. It's not curious that they let him go, because if you're reading the tea leaves, the Broncos have extended every damn player they like over the last two years. Like every key piece of this team is on a long term extension. It's honestly wild. Thank you, Walmart. And so it was kind of in like You could read the tea leaves and see that he probably wasn't going to be around. And I would point out, I think obviously you still have Zach Allen. You keep DJ Jones. You keep Malcolm Roach, both good players. I do think it's worth pointing out the first draft pick they spent was on Tyler Onyatum, who can fill that role and be a versatile piece on the interior of their defensive line.

1:22:59I think it's worth pointing out, too, that he's a restricted free agent, so it's easy to do. But they kept Jaquan McMillan. so on top of drafting a DB in the first round last year your secondary is still incredibly strong for losing a guy of JFM's ability I think the defense is in a perfectly good spot and then you trade for a badass receiver who I think works with your quarterback extremely well I mean I remember talking about it when they did the waddle deal that like I think he should be able to match Bo Nix's skill set so so well when you talk about a guy who can take those 10 yard digs and slants and turn them into big time explosive plays.

1:23:38I think it's something that Broncos offense could really benefit from. And then they get a pet kind of mine in Jonah Coleman as their third running back, where it just makes me feel a little bit better about the overall depth there. If you're telling me Bo Nix is healthy and ready to go, I think, I think they kick ass and I feel really good about what they did, even if it's not a whole lot of actual moves. I also think it's worth pointing out that they brought back a couple guys. So the ways that they use some of the money that they had this offseason is that they just brought back players that were going to be free agents.

1:24:08Alex Singleton was going to be a free agent. J.K. Dobbins was going to be a free agent. And so they just retained the players that might have hit the open market. Derek, when I see something like this and I see a team do next to nothing other than one big swing, there's part of me that always is a little bit uneasy about it where I'm like, I don't know, man. But when I look at this, it's like, what would they have done that you would have wanted them to do that they didn't? I do feel like overall the roster is in a pretty good place. Like we can talk about, well, you know, the tackles have been super healthy over the last couple of years.

1:24:39Is that going to happen again when it comes to why there's not just going to be this like linear progression on offense. But at the same time, it's like they have decent depth there. They've gotten by with their offensive line depth over the last couple of years. Like, I don't know. Like there's part of me that it would leave me a little bit uneasy, but I also don't know what elements of it I would specifically criticize. guys. I mean, I'm all in on what they did on the offense. Like, I know that I've been critical of Bonix and how the offense is operating and all that stuff. But again, to Dave's point, like, he's the perfect receiver to do what they want to do, where you need a guy who you can spit the ball out to, who can stretch the field a little bit if he needs to, can be like your yak target.

1:25:17And so I think I absolutely buy a team that didn't really have many glaring holes. And a team that we said last year, like, they do a lot of stuff and they keep the boat afloat on offense really well, they needed juice and they just didn't have it. And I think this was obviously the best move that they could make. So I'm overall in on it, but I do look at the defense a little bit and I'm, even though it's a good 11 starters, not being able to make any move does concern me a little bit just because defense can tend to be a little bit more volatile. And I am worried about the depth at linebacker and safety a little bit.

1:25:50Like if one of those guys goes down, they are playing guys that just really have not given them hardly any positive NFL snaps. And so I do worry a little bit there um but overall i think that this is they were a very good team last year if bo nicks was healthy they could have absolutely been in the super bowl and i'd probably expect them to be like an 11 12 win team again this year don't love the linebacker situation but i do think it's worth saying too drake remlau can still be a good player and especially now that he's back in san francisco but didn't for them last he did not give them much like he was more of a name than a player for Denver.

1:26:26Maybe that'll change now that he's back in San Francisco, but I don't think that's some crazy loss for them to sustain. I wish the linebacker situation was a little bit better, but I think they can get by. And there's enough talent everywhere else that it makes me feel better about it. Again, it just always makes me a little bit uneasy where teams are like, yeah, we're good. They get that just there are enough examples of that not going well. But at the same time, I there's nothing really specific. I'm like, I wish they would have done this. I would feel better about it maybe that that a couple specific positions like you mentioned derek but overall i understand approaching the offseason even something like they drafted a guard in the fourth round ben powers is going to be a free agent after this year like even that makes sense like i just for the most part even if it was a very quiet offseason i can understand the broncos approaching it this way my god do they need jalen waddle to be a good player i mean for sure that it banks on him being that guy but i'm comfortable with the swing all right that is all we've got for the playoff hopefuls.

1:27:23We will be back next week breaking down the contenders and whether or not we are on board with the way they approach the offseason. For now, that is all we've got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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