Free agency day one, part two: The edge and DB markets fall into place

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1:21Robert Mays: Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Part two of our day one free agency stream, hitting your guys' podcast feed, the audio version of the four-hour and 45-minute show that we recorded yesterday. If you have listened to part one, you've obviously heard my spiel already, but a fantastic day one of free agency, one of my favorite days in the NFL calendar. We had stuff coming in all day. We start with the Alec Pearson, who's going back to Indianapolis. We have stuff with the Tyler Linderbaum contract, the Jalen Phillips signing, and here to help us sort through all of it. We had 15 total guests or 16 total guests on our free agency live stream today with me, Dave and Derek had such a blast.

2:05Robert Mays: So what you're about to listen to is part two of that live stream. I don't know when it's going to start. Don't ask me which signing will be first, but you're listening to the second half of the four and a half hour stream that we did. Hope you guys enjoy it. I know we had a blast recording it. Let's get to it right now.

2:27Robert Mays: We've come to a little, thankfully, was when we lost all of our guests. I was going to say, it feels so empty with everybody logging off at the same time. So nothing new has come across here. Okay, for the most part, we're just sitting with everything that we've been talking about already.

2:39Dave Helman: This is a great opportunity then. Allow me to just be the worst version of myself. We should mention John Harbaugh got his guy, Jordan Stout. I'm going to go to the bathroom. Punter deal. Come on. All pro last year. No, it's very funny. We say that all the time. Coaches identify their guys and our culture and the way we want to do things. And of course, the special teams head coach went out and got his punter for a three-year,$12 million deal.

3:10Robert Mays: Okay, let's fire up that Jets graphic. Talking about teams that have been a little bit active today, the other New York team.

3:17Dave Helman: We just did it. We just did it. Nick Falk also signed a deal

3:23Robert Mays: to be with the Atlanta Falcons. Here's what I'm going to do. You know what? Take the graphic off. We'll talk about the graphic later. I'm going to give you... No, I have nothing else to say. I'm going to give you 90 seconds before we have Sando on here to talk about Brandon Aubrey getting the second round tender because we didn't do it on yesterday's show. And the fact that you didn't bring it up

3:40Dave Helman: on yesterday's show was shocking to me. You know what's funny? All right. I'll actually, I'll zig or I'll zag where you might expect me to zig. And of course, there's two sides to this. there's subterfuge and misinformation abounds. But if it's true that the Cowboys offered to put Brandon Aubrey on top of the market by like$200 ,000 or whatever it is, so like mid$7 million per year, if it's true that Aubrey's after 10, then please somebody come take him and give me the second round pick. Like I'm not trying to pay a kicker$10 million a year. And I would be happy, I would be happy to pay Brandon Aubrey at the top of the market.

4:21Dave Helman: Like if the, if the Cowboys really made an offer and again, you can't take any of this stuff at face value. I think Aubrey said himself that the report that he wanted 10 million was false, but that's the report. Make him the highest paid kicker in the league. But like, if he really wants a million or if he's even, if he's trying to lender bomb this thing and be like, yeah, I know that Butker makes the seven, whatever, or six and a half, but I want nine, whatever, fine. Rams come get them and we'll take the second round pick. What you're saying to me is that kickers don't matter. They do matter, but...

4:55Dave Helman: They're all the same. There's a line. There is a line, and also the unpredictability of the position makes me very reluctant to invest that heavily in a kicker. I mean, you have guys that can do it at a high level for a decade, but they are very, very much the exception. And on top of that, I know you'll love this, nerd that you are. Brandon Aubrey actually makes you more conservative? Yes. So like, I'm fine. Let it go of a kicker who makes my coach want to kick it on fourth and three from the plus 38. Like I'm, I'm fine with my coach is like, I don't know if our kicker is going to make this. Maybe we should go for it.

5:33Robert Mays: I, uh, I want us to clip all of this because I want, I want, I want, I want everyone to know that Dave is against paying kickers. The kickers are all the same. And the last point that he just made is a very important one. Having a good kicker is actually bad for your football.

5:47Dave Helman: I am against being held financial hostage by a kicker, which I don't know for sure. We all have limits. We all have our limits. All right.

5:56Robert Mays: Joining us now, thrilled to have him as part of our big day on the Athletic Football Show. It is the Athletic Zone, Mike Sando. Mike, how you doing, man? Great. How are you? Love the kicker. Doing wonderful. Thank you for joining us. A bit of news as we get back rolling here with our guests. According to Adam Schefter, Zion Johnson, three years,$49.5 million from the Cleveland Browns. So depending on where Titus Howard plays, which I think is probably still up for conversation, considering the Browns need four to five offensive line starters. We have 40 % of the new offensive line for the Cleveland Browns with Zion Johnson and Titus Howard, both in the fold.

6:39Robert Mays: Mike, you spend all day every day talking to people in Indianapolis at the Combine, which happened a week and a half ago. I'm sure you had discussions about what the interior offensive line market might be. How does the Zion Johnson contract align with what you might have expected at these positions? You know, what's funny, Robert,

6:58Derrik Klassen: is I didn't talk to anyone about the interior guard market or most of these markets. Working on lots of other types of projects. So where's Zion? That's what I would be talking to everybody about. And here's what's interesting, though, to me is just the one thing I do. One thing I do do coming out of the combine is I'll have some front office people just stack the top 10 in the draft. And what's funny is we do. I love to do the snapshot after the combine. But all these all these projections change based on free agency. So we've seen Cleveland basically make two big moves, at least two, right, two on the offensive line.

7:29Derrik Klassen: So most of these teams are just setting themselves up to not have to take, you know, to reach maybe for an offensive lineman at wherever that five or six in the draft. So that's how I see it. I think the money part of this always takes time to process because the cap has gone up so much that the idea of a$30 million wide receiver or cornerback. still it takes it there's a lag time before it feels right and so i think with we're seeing linderbaum deal with the raiders i just almost need time to uh to process it and and think it through uh you know before even making sense of it and that's one of the main reasons i do my free agency analysis sort of after the dust settles it to me it's hard uh now to piece together even what these teams are doing because it's all part of his plan what's that i said

8:27Robert Mays: you're telling me i'm sitting here with the next five hours trying to do it yeah yeah so i mean i do so what did zion johnson get again it was so it's three years 49 and a half like 16 a year 16 a year and the the only i think the interesting comparison point is that we just saw david everards get 15 a year for four years david everards is 28 zion johnson's hitting a second contract. And so I think the interesting kind of thought there in the commentary for trying to read between the lines is that the Browns are looking at Zion. And I think this was always going to be the conversation about Zion Johnson specific heading into this sort of market.

9:04Robert Mays: You have first round pedigree and you have some flashes in the back half of last year where you really saw some things from him that you had never really seen before. The talent is undeniable based on pedigree and just some of the flashes. And then he really started to kind of gain some consistency in the back half of last season. And so was there going to be a team that looked at that and said, you know what? There are so few second-cocked guys available in free agency. We're going to bet on the fact that his best football is in front of him and we're going to overpay a little bit compared to a David Edwards who is 28 years old.

9:35Robert Mays: And it seems like that's exactly what happened with Zion Johnson.

9:37Derrik Klassen: And when you're so bad, I think when it's such a bad problem for you, you know, the idea of overpaying is a relative thing, right? Right. You're really raising the floor from what you had, even if Sian Johnson doesn't reach his peak. Right. Even if he just is solid from where they've been, you'd take that for 16 million dollars a year. I think that's where a lot of these teams are at when they're when they're just trying to get to they're just trying to even get to average. Right. It's it's not like this is he doesn't have to be great to be a big improvement for them.

10:09Robert Mays: The Browns are another one of those teams. we mentioned this with the Saints a little bit earlier today, where I think it's important to kind of reframe their financial outlook, because with the Browns, we've had so many conversations over the last couple of years about how much the Deshaun Watson contract is hamstringing them and how much they're up against it because of that. I think I've said this a lot. I was thinking about this last week for some random reason, just looking at the Browns outlook, the missing draft picks are more important than the cap. Like when it comes to the Deshaun Watson trade, like they're going to be able to survive the cap elements of this.

10:38Robert Mays: They have a hundred million dollars in 2027 cap space, the Browns do. So it's not all that dissimilar to what we were just saying about the Saints, where in our minds are this cash-strapped team, do they really have the flexibility to be spending in free agency? But if you look at the multi-year outlook of this, the answer for both the Browns and the Saints is yes. Their biggest challenge is finding good players.

10:57Derrik Klassen: Exactly. And so, yeah, the future is totally different than the last couple of years have been for them. And I think the Saints are in that category too, as long as they don't do any more

11:09Dave Helman: crazy things. I don't think anybody wants to hear this with the Browns in particular because it's we've done it so many times this but like going back to like the Miles Garrett Baker Mayfield drafts where you're talking yourself into the two year outlook over what it is right now. But it like there's especially so I really like this and we'll see how well they actually play but to like have Titus Howard and Zion Johnson there within three hours of free agency starting. And so you've already taken care of a good bit that you have to do on the offensive line right away. It's trending toward you having a functioning offensive line, which we sat there for a while and had a lot of concern about how do you replenish the amount of guys you're losing on that front.

11:54Dave Helman: Last year's draft class was phenomenal. You have two first round picks in this year's draft. It's such a big if, if you do it right, but like there's reason for optimism here if you can hit on some draft picks I assume you're not going to do anything crazy at quarterback this year that would be my guess and so it obviously puts a lot of pressure to solve that problem in 2027 but I like this as sort of a resetting and you can start start to see the framework for a competent team instead of what the Browns have been the last couple years my question for the Browns is just like who's coaching them in two years you know what's their

12:30Derrik Klassen: They're always doing, that's no disrespect to Todd Monken, but he's giddy to get this job because he didn't think he probably was going to. But with the Browns, it always feels like they're scheming on a bunch of different things and you're not always sure where they're headed. So this feels a little bit this offseason like some of these other teams that have had almost placeholder type coaches, right? We had Gerard Mayo in there. if you can go back in time and find these one-year guys in between. And so we'll see where they're at even in two years from now. They always feel fluid to me.

13:07Robert Mays: Can I lay out the optimistic case for what this could feel like in a situation that I feel like is kind of, you can make a solid comparison if you're trying to have the rosy outlook here? I think on multiple different levels. in 2023 the Denver Broncos hire Sean Payton to be their head coach not totally similar but right you have a older offensive-minded play calling head coach so they're box checked same kind of deal you retain the general manager despite a disastrous embarrassing previous season which is what the Broncos had with Nate Hackett but they kept George Payton on the Broncos that free agency period and Titus Howard's a little bit older than this player but they signed Mike McGlinchey who was an older second contract player to right tackle.

13:48Robert Mays: They signed Ben Powers to be their left guard. And in the moment, it was kind of like, I don't really get what the Broncos are, right? Like they're a team that's very far away. They're eating all this dead money with the Russell Wilson contract. Like how is this all supposed to fit together? And them building that offensive line in the way that they did was ultimately like one of the foundational pieces for how they started to pull themselves out of that over the next couple of years. And so that to me, if you're trying to spin this, It's like, how could this go correctly for the Browns? There's a lot of similarities to what the 2023 offseason looks like for the Broncos.

14:22Derrik Klassen: Yeah, I mean, I think Peyton's a totally different animal probably than Monk and in terms of just coming in with new ownership there and showing them how to run a pro organization. So to me, that's a little bit of a difference, but I do see the same thing there for an upside.

14:37Robert Mays: Peyton was in charge there in a way that Monk is not going to be. Andrew Barry still has more say in that building that I think George Payton probably did and how that roster was being built after they traded for Sean Payton. Yeah, it's a little bit of a different dynamic

14:49Derrik Klassen: with the head coach's personality and gravitas, so to speak. But in terms of just putting the team together in the situation and coming out of a dire situation at quarterback. And certainly, I mean, the Hackett situation was, you know, was worse from a coaching standpoint than the Stefanski one. So, yeah.

15:08Robert Mays: Nate Hackett didn't get a new head coaching job two days after he was fired from his previous one, like Kevin Stefanski did. Is that what you're trying to say?

15:14Derrik Klassen: Yeah, I think that a little slight difference there. Slight difference there. Russell Wilson had a better future than Deshaun Watson probably does, though.

15:21Robert Mays: That's also a good thing to bring up. Let's sit and chat a little bit, Mike. What sort of stuff when you were talking to people at the Combine was coming up consistently that was interesting to you? It was like you've started your off-season thoughts. I know some of the stuff are projects that you'll work on a little bit later, but I'm also interested in what that week looks and sounds like to you and what you can say and can't. Absolutely. Yeah.

15:43Derrik Klassen: So a lot of times I'll go there with two or three projects I'm working on and I may end up doing a piece on it in a year. You know, an example of that was maybe last year we did the beyond the McVeigh effect, kind of looking at the way the coaching ages have evolved and all the tentacles to it. So I'll get a ton of learning out of that. But just for a little bit shorter term, one of the things that was that I was talking to some folks about was it just seemed like the Rams were really just couldn't stop. because they couldn't put the season to bed. I mean, I think they knew they were going to win the Super Bowl if they could have played the Patriots.

16:19Derrik Klassen: And so there were some predictions that the Rams could come out, could be a little desperate this offseason, right? Like they just kept talking about the two-point play. It just lingered for them. It was killing them to watch Seattle win that Super Bowl. So would they be, you know, overreact or react off of that? But I would extend that to say, I think these teams, if you look at the teams that felt like they should have won it all, you know, whether that's Baltimore, Buffalo, or the Rams, these are teams that have gotten close. I mean, they've all been in the middle of like high top of the market or unusual moves in trading two number ones that the Baltimore.

16:59Derrik Klassen: I think that's the most fascinating part of this offseason so far is just everyone knew that this was a great year to win the Super Bowl with Patrick Mahomes sidelined and the Chiefs not being the same. And when you don't make it, like there's implications. McDermott gets fired and they're going to make, you know, make some bigger moves in the offseason. So I think that's the interesting part of it to me.

17:25Robert Mays: I love that because I think that when I see stuff like this and you know, Baltimore making the trade they did for Max Crosby feels like one of the more important signals when it comes to this. And we discussed it yesterday where it feels like the sort of move that the Ravens just don't really make. And so you kind of take a step back and it's like, okay, so why would they be willing to do something like this? Is this a scenario where people aren't really valuing draft capital in the same way or the other trends that maybe we're not picking up on, but sometimes it's just that you have a level of urgency that you didn't have previously because of what the league looks like and what your season looked like.

17:59Robert Mays: And maybe that's just it. Maybe teams thought, you know what, we're not content to just sit back here and watch this happen anymore because if it didn't happen last year, it wasn't going to happen. We've got to turbocharge this a little bit. And you saw multiple teams have tried to do that.

18:12Derrik Klassen: Yeah, I kind of like it. I mean, it may or may not work, but I think that, you know, there is, we've seen, I wrote about this coming out of the Super Bowl, I think the last couple Super Bowls have been won by GM-driven teams. Howie Roseman and John Schneider making uncomfortable moves and big moves, not just writing it out, right? Not just, hey, let's bring back the same team. And one of the interesting things about Max Crosby is that last offseason, I believe it's been reported, I've certainly heard it, that the Seahawks were trying to get Max Crosby a year ago, Mike McDonald. And obviously they got Demarcus Lawrence, and they've got a really good D-line themselves, and this year they're not going to go for a Max Crosby after winning the Super Bowl, but who is?

18:55Derrik Klassen: Jesse Minter. Who's Mike McDonald 2.0, hopefully for the Ravens.

19:00Robert Mays: If you look back at the last 10 years of NFL football, I think you could make a very serious argument, and there are numbers that back this up, and if they're not the top three, they're in the top five. You look at teams that were driven by hometown talent over the last decade and teams that did not typically spend in free agency. I think the three teams at the top of that would probably be in some order, the Ravens, the Steelers, and the Packers, right? Yeah. Those are the three teams that operate that way. And they're all out here doing - You know, the Cowboys sound like that. The Cowboys are probably in the top five as well.

19:32Robert Mays: I would throw the Cowboys in there. And so now we're at a place where three of those teams are the three teams that made the most aggressive moves, player moves in the last two off seasons combined. And let's throw Dallas in there. They tried to do it this year. The Cowboys were the team that was trying to do it. And so if these teams are going to be out here doing wild shit, what does that say about the league in general?

19:56Derrik Klassen: Yeah, no, I agree. I think that, you know, I think those teams, the draft and develop thing isn't enough. You know, it's good, but it's not enough. It's part of it. It used to be everything in building your team. And it's still a big part of your team. But you've got to use all of the other ways because that's what the top teams are doing, right? That's to get over the top and win it. I mean, those are all high floor teams. They usually don't have a losing season or much below it unless their quarterback gets hurt. But have they gotten over the top, right? So I love it when teams are at least trying.

20:32Robert Mays: Mike, sincerely appreciate you joining us. Always appreciate the time. We'll talk to you very soon.

20:36Derrik Klassen: Thank you. Appreciate it.

20:39Robert Mays: This is good timing. We have our next big signing as our next guest comes on here. Somebody I think you know. Oh, hey, Carl. It is Carl Vitale. Carl, how are you doing? I'm so great. How are you guys? We're great. I assume you're about to talk about John Franklin Myers.

20:53Dave Helman: We certainly are. See, I'm, Carm, I'm having a blast just letting Mays tell me what's going on. So I didn't know who it was.

21:01Robert Mays: Yeah, you're right.

21:02Dave Helman: I broke that. I'm sorry. Where did he go? Where did he go?

21:05Robert Mays: Tennessee. Okay. Three years,$63 million for John Franklin Myers.

21:12Dave Helman: Oh, yeah. I think I called him a finishing piece last week, and that was not respectful enough to what he was worth, clearly.

21:21Robert Mays: So what I like about this, Carmen, is that sometimes we have this in free agency where you look at certain positions on the board before we even get started, and especially with Connor McGovern signing with the Bills. We were in a spot where it was Tyler Linderbaum, and then you get down to maybe Cade Mays, etc. On the interior defensive line, same sort of conversation. We had John Franklin Myers and nobody. And so when that's the scenario and you're just looking at the chessboard at certain positions, those are often the guys that they can get just the market just blows everybody away. The teams with the money are the ones that end up with those guys.

21:56Robert Mays: It's exactly what happens with Tyler Linderbaum. And it's exactly what happens with John Franklin Myers, where the Titans come in and can just offer what no one else is willing to offer.

22:05Dave Helman: Yeah, it's a really good comp just because of the fact that, yeah, they had money to spend. And we've seen that happen now. and free agency with like the teams that had the most cap space and have also the most to go when it comes to revamping their team and having to build out but I really like assigning like John Franklin Myers or Liam obviously like Tommy Linderbaum though because these are foundational pieces and these are guys that you can build around so if you're going to invest this money now and you still have money to spend you're going to be able to do it around a guy that I mean Denver absolutely loved him.

22:38Dave Helman: I mean, I have to imagine this one hurts Denver quite a bit. And knowing that this was coming, but still, like, I just... There was no way to keep all those guys together and they prioritized what they prioritized along the defensive line. But John Finkley Myers is an instant... Yeah, he's a team builder, I guess, is the way I want to put that. So it's funny because whatever it was, an hour and a half ago, the Titans signed Wondell Robinson, which, you know, he's got familiarity with Dable. I get it. I don't love that so much relative to your other options and the price that it costs you. But considering, again, what you just said, scarcity, and what your options are if you don't bring this in, considering the resources the Titans have to work with, and also throwing Wondell Robinson into a pass catcher group that needs a lot of work with or without him doesn't do a lot for me.

23:29Dave Helman: John Franklin Myers on this Tennessee front, I'm all of a sudden, I'm for 10. Jeffrey Simmons is the man. They traded for Jermaine Johnson. I don't think this would stop them from adding a pass rusher with a really big draft pick. Like, cooking with some gas here. I'm into this.

23:46Robert Mays: What I really appreciate is Robert Sala doing everything in his power to rebuild the 2023 New York Jets defense. There we go. That's what he's just trying to do. He's just like, you know, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me. I'm just going to see if I can re-tap into some of that magic, even though it's three years later. Meanwhile, the Jets are also still trying to rebuild

24:08Dave Helman: that Jets defense with what they've done so far today. I do love that. Sal was like, all right, let me go retool in Green Bay and San Francisco for a minute. JFM, you know, across time, I'll reach back out to you. And here we are.

24:22Robert Mays: I was looking at it. The points per game numbers for the 2023 New York Jets were not that great on defense. They were third in defensive DVOA. And so that was the glory time of the Jets being really good defensively and not being able to move the ball whatsoever.

24:35Dave Helman: Do you remember, what year did you just say?

24:36Robert Mays: I'm sorry.

24:37Dave Helman: 2023. 2022 was the year where like they lost like eight games where they held their opponent to like 19 points

24:44Robert Mays: or something like that. You know why? Because that was the year where they averaged 17 and a half points and gave up 18 and a half. Like if they'd scored 20 points a game that year, they would have won like 10 or 11 games. Yes. Ridiculous. So yeah, I mean, there are worse plans than trying to rebuild the 2023 New York Jets defense. I just wonder how good that looks with everybody being three years older.

25:03Dave Helman: I mean, that's fair. And Jeffrey Simmons isn't exactly young by NFL standards, but man, we saw. That's so fun. I mean, not to compare everything to the conference championship teams, but we see what having badass D tackles can do for you. All right, lay it on me, Maze. Maze is freaking out over here. Yeah, what happened?

25:25Robert Mays: I love when there's a guy we're all excited about where every single like, I'm sorry for the people listening. I broke your eardrums. I was very excited when there's a guy where it's like, I really like this guy. And I think that he's going to the good value. I'd want him. Charlie Kohler. Going to the Los Angeles Chargers. Oh, three years. $24 million for Charlie Kohler.

25:49Dave Helman: I OK. I told you. I told you Charlie Kohler could get a surprisingly big bag. I love that for him. Doesn't that feel like last year they tried Will Disley and it didn't work out as well as they wanted to? Okay, Charlie Kohler has a little bit more giddy up.

26:04Robert Mays: That's what I'm saying. They're like, all right, let's... That's kind of where I'm at here.

26:07Dave Helman: Let's not mess about. Let's do this for real this time.

26:10Robert Mays: I love this. Because this feels to me like, again, Charlie Kohler doesn't have the same, quite this level of like pass catching pop ideally, but it reminds me a little bit of like a slight downgrade from like the Colby Parkinson contract that he got a couple years ago from the Rams. Like, you're a third tight end on your previous team, but we're betting on what you can be in a slightly elevated role. And so I like this a lot. I think this actually makes a lot of sense for where the Chargers are and what the Chargers need. You pair him with Gadsden and, like, just their skill sets combined. Like, I'm excited about this.

26:43Robert Mays: I wanted Charlie Cole to land in a good spot. I would say this counts.

26:47Dave Helman: Is this, like, osmosis in Los Angeles of, like, the tight end, just usage in general and this emphasis on two and three tight end packages now just kind of moving over a few miles of Los Angeles County from the Rams and trying to do that now with Injah Harbaugh.

27:04Robert Mays: This could work really well. This could be great. The only difference is we have a fullback in the other team in Los Angeles. We do not have the Rams, right? So Alec Ingold. So now we have a 21 and 12 personnel world with Alec Ingold, Charlie Kohler, Rondé Gadsden plus Mike McDaniel. I'm already in on the show.

27:25Dave Helman: And a capable center in Tyler Biotis? Yeah, no, I'm pretty in on this. I feel like they're after your heart, Carm. That's your style of football. It is. I mean, it's also what I grew up with when you're talking about Big Ten football and just a smash mouth run game and big tight ends and fullbacks and 22 personnel all the time. Big F receivers. We don't need to actually pass the ball or have a spread offense. yeah no I love it and I just I now I have like talk about I think you were talking about Charlie Day earlier I'm gonna just do it again um I just have a picture of Mike McDaniel I know I just the

28:00Robert Mays: Mike McDaniel you know him like in front of the thing with the the map and like the people mind it's Mike McDaniel McDaniel and it's just him with all of these guys now and all of these pieces in LA this is his Pepe Sovia moment Mike McDaniel is trying to tie the whole run game together Carm, before we lose you and if there's nothing else coming down the pipe.

28:23Dave Helman: Oh, we've got a couple things. Oh, do we? A couple things. All right. Well, let's keep it current then. I was going to ask Carm. No, actually, Carm, walk me through the emotions of Mike Evans, no longer Tampa Bay Buccaneer.

28:33Robert Mays: Explain a little bit of the background as to why this would matter to you. Right. So I spent six years with the Buccaneers and all of that time with Mike. And Mike was my dude and still is my dude. but this was, I was like shocked because as much as I had seen the reports of like,

28:50Dave Helman: oh, he might leave, oh, he might leave. Like no one actually thought he was leaving. That includes people in the building, by the way. Like the Bucks were ready to do whatever Mike wanted. Like they were, it was not a matter of money and it never, I mean, it never is a matter of money when it comes to Mike Evans. It's solely about what he feels is right. And it's solely about what he feels is the right situation for him and his family. What shocked me the most was that this wasn't,

29:14Robert Mays: like the Texans where he has, you know, he's from Galveston. He has a house there. Like it's, it's a completely foreign environment to him.

29:22Dave Helman: California has crazy taxes, but again, it's not about the money. I think this really was about just a change of pace, a change of scenery and being on a team that he maybe felt was in a little better position though.

29:34Robert Mays: They will be potentially in the toughest division in football. When you're talking about the NFC West, I'm, I'm shocked talking to people in the building. I mean,

29:43Dave Helman: I'm devastated as a fan now, but there are people in the building are also devastated. Like Bucs fans, if you can take solace in anything, just know that like everybody in the building is also sad with you because they tried. And it was just, it had nothing to do with what the Bucs were offering, weren't offering anything like that from everybody I talked to. It was just Mike wanted to leave.

30:08Robert Mays: It's a new opportunity in a very good situation offensively. And again, he fits exactly what they need out there. Two quick signings that just happened. One guy leaving the New York Giants, one guy going to the New York Giants. Cordell Flott, cornerback Cordell Flott, signing a three-year$45 million deal with the Tennessee Titans for$32 million guaranteed. Titans?

30:33Dave Helman: Keep doing this. I don't know. Look, I'm firmly in the Titans corner, mainly because of Cam Ward, but this is, I don't know. They've done a couple of deals where guys would go on my list of, this is a little bit scary. I'm a little bit nervous about the price. Cordell Flott had a really nice season last year. He's still a young player. An emergent season, I would say, for Cordell Flott. It's a gamble worth taking. And at the end of the day, that's not like an astronomical price tag, but I do think you need more for him at that, more from him at that price.

31:07Robert Mays: It's my, the comparison that I would make at that price is it kind of reminds me a little bit of the deal that Paul Simadibo actually signed with the Giants last year. That was for$18 million a year, but I think that's the comp I would make in terms of the archetype of player that you're talking about here. So the Titans signed Cordell Flott to a$15 million a year deal, joining the New York Giants as Cordell Flott moves on, quarantine in Rappaport. Tremaine Edmonds, three years,$36 million with$24 million guaranteed going to the New York Giants after being released by the Bears.

31:41Dave Helman: You knew John Harbaugh was going to go get a linebacker. I mean, that's not a surprise. A rangy linebacker, a long, like, rangy linebacker. Yeah, okay. I'm on, I mean, Carmen, you cover the Bears a lot now. Robert, obviously your credentials need not be questioned. Like, how do you feel about Tremaine Edmonds in this act of his career? and like where he is going to the Giants at this point.

32:08Robert Mays: Tremaine Edmonds is a fine player. I think it was just a matter of how much money are you saving. The Bears, I think, saved$16 to$18 million a year moving on from him. I mean, he was just getting paid a ton of money based on that last contract that he signed. And so it was more about... It's the same thing. The Tremaine Edmonds thing and the DJ Moore thing to me are somewhat similar. They're not totally analogous because you still needed another linebacker after moving on from Tremaine Edmonds where at the pass catcher spots, you're probably set without DJ Moore. But the Tremaine Edmonds contract with the Bears is not that he's a bad player.

32:39Robert Mays: It's about opportunity cost. So you can't pay him$20 million against the cap when you have all of these other needs. And so that's why I thought it was necessary to move on. What I am interested in with the fit here is that one of the first things that the Titans did at linebacker and Denard Wilson's first year there is they traded for Ernest Jones, right? And so getting a bigger, rangier, longer linebacker in the middle of that defense is truly one of the first things they did with Dernard Wilson in Tennessee. And so this being the first thing the Giants defense is doing with Dernard Wilson as their defensive coordinator is not surprising to me.

33:18Dave Helman: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I mean, when you have a guy like Jermaine, who's also really smart too, right? Like he's kind of captaining the middle of that defense. And I'm with you though, when it comes to letting him go from the Bears you had, not necessarily redundancy because like Robert said, you're going to have to bring in linebackers and they already did that now with Devin Bush. But it was how much is what he's giving us worth what we're paying him, the opportunity cost of all of this. And I think when you saw at various times throughout this year, when TJ Edwards was out, Jermaine Edmonds missed some time, there was like, they had death at that position.

33:53Dave Helman: And they also had a defense that under Dennis Allen is just so what he wants to be, man heavy. and there's just so many moving parts and so many different moving pieces that I think you could afford to, like you didn't have to pay someone that much money and you didn't have to build around someone like Tremaine Edmonds in this Tennessee Alley.

34:16Robert Mays: What are you laughing at? The dam has broken with the defensive back contracts. Okay. The Tennessee Titans are not done. Jeez. Three years. $50 million for Elante Taylor. Elante Taylor. so Cordell Flott and Alante Taylor on the back half of the Titans defense get every level get every level man Titans wielding that rookie quarterback contract for

34:41Dave Helman: all that it's worth I mean we joked about it last week like for all of for all of the money they've spent and for all the deals that haven't really worked out that well they're still in a position to spend and yeah make the make the most of your quarterback not costing that much money and make the most of a lot of those deals not biting you as bad as you have. Like, they're surprisingly not hampered for the amount of bad decisions that they've made over the last couple of years. So you might as well. I really love the JFM signing. Elante Taylor is a good player. I mean, Cordell Flott's a good player too.

35:15Dave Helman: But yeah, it's just, it's funny to see. I mean, what? So Wandell got 70. I don't think we mentioned Daniel Bellinger. He got 24 million.

35:23Robert Mays: No, we did not mention Daniel Bellinger.

35:24Dave Helman: 63 million for Jonathan Franklin Myers, 45 for Cordell Flott. And then how much? 60 for Alante Taylor. $20 million a year for Alante Taylor. So they've spent north of$200 million. I mean, not all of that is guaranteed, obviously, but they have spent a lot of money today.

35:40Robert Mays: I'll be curious what happens with Alante Taylor in terms of where he's playing. So obviously last year, he was primarily a slot corner. In 2024, he played about two thirds of his snaps on the outside. You're paying him$20 million a year. That says to me, he's gonna be playing on the outside for you. And so, I mean, they had needs. I mean, outside corner has been a tough situation for the Titans over the last couple of years. They make the Lajarius Neen trade. Obviously, that does not work out. So now you have two new outside corners. You have multiple new defensive linemen. You have Wondell Robinson.

36:06Robert Mays: Titans are not holding back here in terms of how they're throwing some of this money around. And we have a couple more.

36:12Dave Helman: That's where they want their identity to be.

36:14Robert Mays: Last defensive back deal to hit before we get to Trevor Sykema here. The Bengals are finally on the board. We're wondering when this might happen. three years,$40 million per Ian Rappaport. Brian Cook heading to Cincinnati. You said three years, 40? Three years,$40 million. That's the same deal that Kobe got, right? Yeah, so that just seems to be, you know, that's the going rate for starting safeties this go around. What I like about this, and this is not surprising to me at all, when you watch the back seven of the Bengals defense tackle last year, bringing in Brian Cook, it makes a ton of sense.

36:52Robert Mays: I think that's exactly where they want to be, considering how bad they were on the back end last season as they try to tackle anybody. OK, Carm, thank you very much for the time. Great to see you. I'm sure I'll see you again very soon. We'll talk to you later. Bye, guys. Bye, Carm. All right. Before we keep rolling here, let's take our first quick break.

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39:19Robert Mays: joining us now from pff and the nfl stock exchange i guess podcast but more youtube show right i mean you guys are crushing it on the youtube at this point right like just a multimedia extravaganza is the nfl stock exchange podcast with trevor sikama and connor rogers good to see you man

39:37Dave Helman: how you doing i'm doing great guys first of all i love this whole setup this is awesome just like popping in and like listening to you guys show when I can throughout the day. I mean, like I love this stuff. It's super cool. Really cool to be a part of it. Appreciate you letting me be a part of it. But I love what you guys are doing today. This has been awesome to watch.

39:53Robert Mays: Appreciate you, bud. I want to talk to you about just your emotional journey as you've gone through today. Mike Evans leaving Alex Anzalone, Kenny Gainwell talking me through how you're feeling about I didn't realize we had two Bucs centric guests in a row. We got Tampa like cornered right here. Talk me through your journey here with the Bucks over the last three or four hours.

40:13Dave Helman: I was in the little waiting room, and you guys had asked Carmen about that. You asked her about Mike Evans. I was like, all right, that's it for me. And I just, you know, I just, just getting up from the seat. No, I'm kidding. The Mike Evans situation is very interesting because I do agree a lot with what Carmen said, where a lot of people probably thought that he was just never going to leave. And I always felt like the Bucks offer was going to be competitive. I felt as though he was going to be able to get more money elsewhere outside of Tampa, but it always felt like it was going to be competitive.

40:42Dave Helman: And then to be honest, like as the day went on and as like the days were leading up, I actually felt more confident that he was going to remain with the Buccaneers because it felt like they were getting like Peter Schrager said himself, he used the word desperate to bring Mike Evans back. And I was like, okay, well then they're going to be pretty close compensation wise. And then he ends up going to the San Francisco 49ers. And to me, as I was sort of thinking about this over the last couple of days as well, And even when you read and sort of Mike's and his agent kind of like putting out that farewell via like Schefter and some of the other insiders, I think that especially for the amount of money that he signed for.

41:19Dave Helman: Unfortunately for Bucks fans, that speaks very loudly about Todd Bowles and Baker Mayfield, because to me, this speaks of an opportunity where, yeah, sure, you could say to yourself like, oh, you know, he says that he wants a new challenge after 12 years in Tampa Bay. it's true but like Mike has always been an extremely loyal person loyal to the organization loyal to the city loyal to the fans all that kind of stuff and I'm not saying that what he did today means that he's not loyal it's not what I'm saying at all whatsoever what I'm saying is that I don't think he believes in where the Bucs are going and if he did he would have re-signed with Tampa because the money that he re-signed for was very affordable so I think it's more of a Todd bulls thing than a baker mayfield thing but baker was one of the most inaccurate quarterbacks in the nfl in the second half of the season we have a stat at pff uncatchable inaccurate pass percentage and over the last 10 weeks of the season baker mayfield was number one in the nfl in uncatchable inaccurate passes that he threw i think that mayfield as well as the lack of faith that todd bulls is the right man for the job led to evan signing elsewhere and in san francisco it's

42:27Robert Mays: interesting to me. This is something that kind of crept up as I talked to people at the combine. And I think it's worth paying attention to beyond the quarterback. When you think about just the shifting quality of the offensive infrastructure with the Bucks over the last few years where, you know, and this is, I'm getting here. You move on from Liam Cohen, who obviously has been one of the best play callers, offensive architects in the league over the last two seasons. You go to the Jonathan Grisard to step down. But in talking to people in Indy, I was surprised if I pull like 10 people that I talked to about offensive coaches in the NFL.

43:00Robert Mays: I had more people pump up Jonathan Grisard to me than Zach Robinson. Like I think that right now, like the Q score among some people in the NFL is higher for Grisard than it actually is for Zach Robinson, who is supposed to be replacing Grisard in Tampa.

43:14Dave Helman: Josh Grisard.

43:15Robert Mays: Josh Grisard, excuse me. So it's that's that's interesting to me. Right. And so I think even beyond the quarterback, I think my point here is that Mike Evans is lack of faith in the overall stability of what the offensive infrastructure has been in Tampa over the last couple of years. There's no more stable place you can go than to go play for Kyle Shanahan. Like there's no more ambiguity about it. It's just like I'm going to a place where I know what the offense is going to be every year because that guy is here.

43:42Dave Helman: 100 % and I do think that Evans' biggest career goal at this point is he wants to win another Super Bowl I don't think he's lying in that regard however, I think that there is a major underlying factor that Evans who was hurt this past season it was the first year that he didn't get a thousand yards in a season I think he wants to go to a place, be fully healthy, get the thousand yards again and then certainly for his Hall of Fame case and for his legacy I think it's already wrapped up. But for that case and that legacy, if he goes to San Francisco now or wherever he was going to go, he needs to be able to, after what happened this past season, say, look, every year I was healthy in the league over a decade of play, every year that I was fully healthy, I got over a thousand yards.

44:32Dave Helman: And being able to say that in a Hall of Fame and legacy case, I think means a lot, not not just to him personally, but also just to his case overall for wanting to get to can. So when you look at the San Francisco 49er setup, they're going to move on from Brandon Iuke. Juwan Janney is a free agent. Obviously, they don't have Debo Samuel anymore because they dealt him previously. But Mike's number one, George Kittle is going to miss most of the year. Like Mike is very clearly without question, number one in that offense. And he's going to be working for, like you mentioned, an offensive mind where it doesn't get more stable.

45:03Dave Helman: When you're a number one option in a Kyle Shanahan offense, you eat plain and simple Like that's it. So I also think that this landing spot specifically meant a lot to Evans because he's truly trying to cement his legacy to make sure that there is no shadow of a doubt that he's going to be a hall of famer whenever he's done.

45:21Robert Mays: Again, I think that his case is probably solidified as well, but it's not dissimilar to Devante Adams looking at last year and being like, I'm going to LA. I'm giving me like a supercharged setup. Let me have another monster year and just leave no doubt here. Was I calling it? Was I calling Josh Grisard, Jonathan Grisard, by the way? You were. My brain is melting.

45:39Dave Helman: Who is still a Viking as of right now.

45:42Robert Mays: Trevor, I would be remiss if I didn't have a version of this conversation with you before you got out of here. As you've looked at all the signings that have happened today, I'm sure in your mind, you're always tying it back to what does this mean for the draft? What does this mean for the draft? What does this mean for the draft? So when you think about the dominoes that have fallen over the last, I'm looking at the counter right now, three hours and 40 minutes and how they affect what the first round of the draft might look like. What are the biggest things to have fallen in your mind?

46:08Dave Helman: Yeah, I think the running back room, I think, is something that's certainly worth monitoring because when we were leaving Indianapolis, you couldn't hear enough people like sing Jeremiah Love's praises. And there were people who were like, oh, his range starts at number three overall, like with the Arizona Cardinals. And with the Cardinals, you know, re-signing James Conner and being in the running back market again today, like I don't think that that's happening with them getting Tyler O 'Gier. Like they still have Trey Benson, but now it feels like he's kind of on the out, but It doesn't feel like they're a Jeremiah Love destination.

46:37Dave Helman: I kind of feel that way about the Saints as well. You feel that way about the Kansas City Chiefs. And like those were the three most likely spots where I felt like there were landing spots for Jeremiah Love in the top 10. So all of a sudden, like, yeah, he could potentially go to the Washington Commanders. But does he, you know, because if he doesn't go number seven, now all of a sudden you go, well, OK, Jeremiah Love might be available to be had outside of the top 10 for the first time in like two months. Like that was not something that people were thinking about that was possible with him, especially again, if we turn back the clock a week ago to all of the places that he could have gone in the top 10 that you would have felt good about.

47:14Dave Helman: So I think that the certainly the the Jeremiah Love domino, they're very interested to see sort of what all of these defensive moves for the New York Jets also means on who they might be honing in on. To me, it speaks to more of an Aurevill Reese type of a number two overall pick than anything else, just because they are getting bigger. There is some of some familiarity there, like signing Demario Davis. I don't think that they draft Sonny Stiles a number two after, you know, not that Demario Davis is going to be there forever. I don't hate the idea of Davis and Sonny Stiles. But to me, it just says, hey, we're filling out a lot of different like specific traditional roles on our defense.

47:52Dave Helman: let's draft the guy who's a true off ball on on ball linebacker hybrid in arvel reese so to me what the jets have done goes into arvel reese starting to be more of the status quo number two overall pick than like ruben bain obviously was in that conversation but more so recently sunny styles or david bailey i think that we're honing in on arvel reese being that pick at number two i would agree with that i i like your logic trev and i can go along with it i just feel like I don't trust NFL coaches to just not become enamored with arguably the best player in the NFL draft. And so I know our guy, Dane, Dane had Jeremiah Love at four to the Titans in his most recent mock.

48:35Dave Helman: And so if you look at it and say, well, we just spent a small GDP on our defense, maybe we could help our offense out a little bit. And then I said it jokingly to Robert earlier on the show, but John Harbaugh is going to love Jeremiah Love.

48:49Robert Mays: He's going to love him. There's so many competing, and again, just reading tea leaves and guys' history with certain positions, which isn't always the biggest indicator, but it's worth paying attention to. So two different things I have in mind. One, John Harbaugh just walked away from a situation where he watched what Derrick Henry could do for an offense. We get a true ridiculous force of nature type player in here. What can that look like? Joe Shane, let's say quam barkley walk out of the building okay how does that impact his thinking on what adding a guy like that back into the offense might look what might look like and so again whether that has any bearing on their decision i don't know but the fact that your two main decision makers presumably right i don't know who knows how much joe shane is actually pulling the pulling the levers over there anymore but presumably your two main decision makers have an interesting history recently with big time running backs to say the least.

49:47Dave Helman: No, that, I mean, the Giants obviously are a conversation unto themselves. And I think that would just open 10 different cans of worms. But like, if you remove all of those trappings from it, if I tell you Jeremiah Love is no worse than the second best player in this draft. And I think, I think evaluators think that way more so, more than fans want to give them credit for. Cause typically those of us on the outside, you know, You're talking about contract value and all of these very important things, but I think a lot of times it just boils down to who's the best football player. I also think that how the Raiders have gone about things really over the last week will factor in the Max Crosby trade as well.

50:27Dave Helman: I think that that has totally changed the outlook of this draft and how aggressive that that team might be. I love the title of Linderbaum edition. You're about to get a young franchise quarterback in there. Why not get in a super experienced center, one of the best in the NFL, for him to be able to talk to and have a good relationship with. And obviously, before the ball was even snapped, you're communicating with this guy. You're leaning on his expertise. I love that there. Obviously, getting Jalen Naylor helps for them, too. And then when you look at the Max Crosby trade, I understand that everybody kind of talked about what Max does for the Ravens, right?

51:01Dave Helman: That's sort of the immediate. But to me, I think that that trade meant more towards the Raiders because you just never, almost never, have your general manager, your head coach, and your quarterback, your franchise quarterback, basically on the same timeline. Having all of this room to work with each other and actually have long-term plans, because a lot of times it's like, all right, one of them is on the hot seat, so you don't really get that continuity between the three timelines. The Raiders have that now, and trading away Max Crosby, to me, was actually most advantageous for them because now, especially getting two first round picks, it allows them to really lean into what is a major rebuild and what's going to be the identity of just Clint Kubiak's offense, but then also who Fernando Mendoza is as a quarterback.

51:47Dave Helman: So I love that they were super aggressive to go get Tyler Linderbaum. I really like that move there. Obviously, upgrading in receiver helps as well. But I just I think the Max Crosby move was the correct one for them as well.

51:57Robert Mays: It was funny because we didn't we did the show yesterday and we didn't really talk about the Raiders side of it in real time. And this is oversight. But part of the reason for that is that I thought it was so self-evident that it was the correct decision for the Raiders to make that there really wasn't a ton more analysis to provide than that. Like you traded away a 29-year-old pass rusher. And when we were talking about how we don't normally see these types of moves for 29-year-old third contract players, that sort of trade market, like getting two first-round picks for it, how it was a hyper-aggressive trade for the Ravens, The other side of that implicitly is it is the correct choice because of the value you're getting back for the Raiders.

52:36Robert Mays: And so that to me was one of the driving forces for why we didn't spend a lot of time talking about it. Is that in my mind, it was just self-evidently the correct choice for the Raiders to make when it comes to Max Crosby.

52:46Dave Helman: Moving on from a valuable asset that's on a different timeline from everyone else in your organization while he's still highly valuable. Yeah, like I don't think you need to spend a whole lot more time on it. Yeah, because also this question of like, oh, is Max going to want out? The Raiders aren't very good. Like that was also probably going to exist a year from now, right? It's not like, oh, they get Fernando. They're going to be all good to go. They're going to win the division. They're going to be winning everything like that. So I just, I agree with you. I think this is totally the right move to make for him.

53:16Robert Mays: Trev, sincerely appreciate the time, buddy. Great to see you. Best of luck as you dig into draft season. I'm going to make you come on the show again before we actually get to the draft. So just be on the lookout for that.

53:26Dave Helman: Sounds good, guys. I appreciate you having me. Keep killing it.

53:28Robert Mays: Talk to you later. Joining us now, our old buddy from the Prime Vision broadcast on Amazon, one of our favorite friends of the show. It's our friend Sam Schwartzstein. Sam, how you doing, man? What's up? You guys are grinding right now through the news. It's three hours and 47 minutes in. I feel like I could keep going for another four hours if I needed to. Well, fortunately for you,

53:51Dave Helman: we have at least another hour and a half.

53:55Robert Mays: How you doing over there? well any what my brain just short-circuited as i just said i can go for another three hours anything that's come across your timeline in the last couple in the last few minutes here that is in front of mind for you what's what are you thinking about right now is worth three and a half hours into this thing i i've been i've been mixing it up on the linderbaum news right and you

54:14Dave Helman: know there's the sides of it where i was looking for the tweet where i said linderbaum should win the heisman as a former center my talent evaluation is can you do the things i could never do and him reaching two eyes is a shade running outside zone is the best outside zone center I'd seen since like Chris Myers or some of those old Alex Gibbs style outside zone teams. He does so much there and he didn't run it a ton in Baltimore. Uh, I hear a lot of people talking about, Hey, we should evaluate a quarterback and center being paired up and giving us a quarterback, a veteran center. So I see why you want to do it with Kubiak.

54:48Dave Helman: The problem is, is that you don't need a massive center or a huge center contract-style player to operate an offense that runs play action 30 % of the time. If that's your plan, you're not making the mic points, you're not changing protections, that's not the focus of it. So it's different than if you were getting like a, if you were putting a top-tier center for Joe Burrow and said, Joe, you do so much at the line, let's just focus on you throwing that football. And we'll have a center do all that for you where you're manipulating protections. That's a different story. And so, you know, it's market resetting.

55:22Dave Helman: It's crazy. I want to hear people talk more about what did they give up by spending so much money on Linderbaum versus just looking at historical data. Because one thing that's interesting is every team, if you talk to their analytics staff, is looking for what's the future of this game. Where are there going to be runs on spending on players based off where the game is going, rule changes, what's going on in NIL and transfer portal? that could be a big deal because you cannot run the same offenses in college football with no continuity year to year. And so teams are trying to project out what will be a run.

55:56Dave Helman: So maybe center is going to get a crazy payday because of protection and line calls. And maybe they're ahead of the scene. I don't think they are by double pain versus Connor McGovern. But it's an interesting conversation. I don't think anyone can just go overpay massive underpay what the market was. You know, I think Helman, you said it earlier, but like sometimes you might not trust certain things that teams will do. You have to, coaches are coaches and they're going to want certain things. And so I think it's been my big discussion. Also, Charlie Kolar going to the Chargers is going to run a lot of lead screens out of the backfield because that's what Mike McDaniel likes to do.

56:27Dave Helman: Those are my two takes.

56:29Robert Mays: So a little bit of corner news came across the timeline while we were transitioning to Sam here. Josh Jobe back to Seattle. I didn't see the, I think it was three years, 24, but I know it's$8 million a year. So$8 million a year for Josh Jobe back to Seattle. This is one that's interesting to me, Sam, because we talk about markets and positions and how they start to unfold. You have guys getting twice that. Cordova's getting twice that to go to the Titans. Josh Jobe at$8 million a year. You understand how that market develops because in a vacuum for any system, Josh Jobe is probably not as valuable as a lot of these other guys, but he's extremely valuable for what the Seahawks specifically need.

57:11Robert Mays: And so the idea that you can spend half on Josh Shobe knowing what he gives your defense, even if he has limitations in a vacuum for every system, that's one of those signings where it's just like you'll feel really good that you're paying him$8 million a year compared to the corners that are costing 15.

57:27Dave Helman: that's serendipitous because that's that that's a crazy deal i did a bunch of research post super bowl on him because one thing i'm passionate about is um i talk about this every year on your shows how do we use data to better tell stories and then how is there also mislabeled data and how can you take advantage of that josh job plays in a defense that overall plays some of the most zone in the nfl he himself plays some of those man because he's always in the boundary yeah he's always one-on-one and he's playing that backside x a lot of the time covering him man and so you You could consider him a lockdown corner for what exactly, like you said, for what this defense needs at a great discount for what a lot of these teams have.

58:04Dave Helman: So, you know, they have three stud corners. And I think now you have one that's probably one of the more important ones that people don't talk about because of the ability they have to play man backside where they have all the funky zone going to the front side. I just love, you took the words right out of my mouth. Like there's no projection here. That's what makes free agency so scary. He's like, you're moving across the country. It's a new scheme. It's new coaches. It's a new level of talent around you. Most of it is projection. And if there's none whatsoever for a pretty discounted price for a starting caliber corner, that's one of my favorite things that's come across the ticker all day.

58:42Dave Helman: Because I don't have to imagine what Josh Jobe is going to look like for the Seattle Seahawks. I can just go watch his games.

58:50Robert Mays: A smaller one, but one that's worth mentioning here. Larry Borum is heading to the Lions. We do not have numbers on that quite yet about where he'll be playing. Larry Borum for the Dolphins last year played mostly right tackle. In his career, he's kind of bounced back and forth. He played mostly left tackle 24. So is this potentially a stopgap or competition at that left tackle spot if Taylor Decker is going to move on? and we mentioned this with the Declare news, are you ready to kind of cede that job to Giovanni Manu or do you need a little bit more competition in that room? Day one signing for Larry Borum seems to indicate that maybe he has a chance to play for that team a little bit more than we might have thought.

59:30Dave Helman: And that to me signals we're not going to have a panic attack if our options at pick 17 in the draft don't lend itself to helping that position. Yeah, and I mean, drafting a good tackle at 17, like that far down the list in the first round is easier said than done. I actually, I do think this is a year where you could potentially pull that off. But that lessens the urgency on you to solve that problem in the draft, which is, I always think, a really smart way to approach free agencies. We're like, hey, we won't be screwed if we don't do something more about this later.

1:00:05Robert Mays: Sam, now that we're in kind of a lull with the sightings and the fact that we don't have any currently rolling in, I'm curious, just going back to any other bigger picture kind of studies or things that you wanted to table set before free agency started? Like what were the bigger picture thoughts that you kind of had on your mind as you were thinking about this group and how the money would get thrown around?

1:00:24Dave Helman: Yeah, I mean, I keep going back to what the Raiders are doing because they made the big trade to get rid of their franchise piece with Crosby. And now we know they're going to take Munoza first overall. That's been made clear today. As a tough AFC West and the Chiefs, one of the better DVOA teams that didn't make the playoffs with our good friend Aaron Schatz. So I think that that team is taking massive swings. I have no idea if they will work out. And then you want to look at the commanders because the commanders, they've missed on a few of the prospects that apparently they wanted. They wanted Alec Pierce.

1:01:05Dave Helman: They have a new offensive coordinator in David Blau who we don't even know what his offense is going to look like with a quarterback who, you know, he ran more pro style, Jaden Daniels, when he's at Arizona State, but now how long ago is that? And so if they're going to a pro style offense, that's going to be a brand new look over there in Washington for a team that looks like it was, you know, on the precipice of being a big player in the NFC. I haven't seen them make enough moves to make me feel comfortable with them being a big player. Again, they might have another down here.

1:01:35Robert Mays: I wonder what the Washington mover receiver is with both those guys now off the table with Pierce now off the table. is at the Romeo Dobbs team now that Mike Evans is in San Francisco. And then the other thing here is what happens with Brandon Ayuk, right? Like, is there in on Alec Pierce, is Brandon Ayuk now a fallback option for them? Like, there are still some solutions at one of those boundary receiver spots, but they're starting to dwindle a little bit. Is Brandon Ayuk a solution right now?

1:02:00Dave Helman: I mean, that's a good question. A worthwhile question. I guess we'll see. No substation nearby, but there's still no substation. these suburbs.

1:02:12Robert Mays: I'm worried about Mike Evans' soft tissue. He's had hamstring issues in the past. We're just careful. We're veering into very tough territory here.

1:02:21Dave Helman: Yeah, I think Mike Evans is an awesome one too because I think what that offense wants to do is to give Brock Purdy a guy who can have the three-way go at the top of that route, whether it's going to be the go ball, the out route, or the dig. That's a lot of what's built into a lot of their offense and he's actually one of the better throwers in time. He struggles a little bit with teams that are ready for that. Like I went to the Monday night football game against the Panthers. He is the slowest throwing ball over 20 yards from a miles per hour perspective. And that shows up a lot in when teams can run with anticipation.

1:02:58Dave Helman: But having a big body like that, Mike Evans has made a lot of quarterbacks, a lot of money, and now Brock Curry's being paid a lot of money. I think it's going to be a great fit. Having that guy like he did with Ayuk, where he could just trust one player going to make one big play is going to be a huge value for this offense that was missing. Juwan Jennings, love him to death, but that was not the guy that you wanted to anchor this offense, a wide receiver position last year.

1:03:21Robert Mays: I'm not, I'm not trying to retread the same territory we've had. We've done a million different times when it comes to running back value. I don't really care what the answer is. I just think that this off season in particular is an interesting one for having a discussion about how important they are for individual offenses. And the two things that I feel like are kind of working in tandem with each other. this offseason in particular and what happened today. Kenneth Walker going to Kansas City and the Chiefs being like, we need this level of pop a running back for our offense to come together.

1:03:50Robert Mays: In the same offseason where we're potentially going to be talking about Jeremiah Love as a top five pick, I just think that the bulk of data and the touch points that we're seeing at that position this spring, Sam, it's at least worth thinking about how they all fit together and what it overall means for the types of players and the types of skill sets you're seeking out at that position.

1:04:12Dave Helman: I mean, that's a really funny one for me because the Chiefs for the past two years are one of the more successful running games. And this is without the ability to QB sneak with the quarterback on fourth down, which can inflate rushing success rate numbers. But they had almost no explosion, right? So from a television perspective, we love it. We have a consistent good offense that shortens the game, that makes the games closer. Now they have Kenneth Walker, who we want, who we almost did a thing on him on Prime Vision where we would measure how much backwards running he would do before going forward.

1:04:45Dave Helman: We're going to get it for next year, but it makes it worse now because he's in an offense that wants to find explosive runs. That's why he, because they're trying to change what they're doing on offense with, that's a clear indicator. But they want, they teach their backs, go straight. Just get me four. I don't know if you can teach Kenneth Walker that. He's going to want to run up to line scrimmage, run backwards and then use his speed to get outside. Unreal posterior chain on that guy. If you know, you know. So I'm going to be interested to see are they going to change the offense with Nagy out to where they can manufacture more explosive runs, get into the edge versus where they've been is just try and keep Mahomes out of being super backed up because he'll make third and seven look like third and two.

1:05:27Robert Mays: Sam, as always, buddy, it's great to chat with you. Excited to have you back on the show as we dig into some more kind of bigger picture philosophical offseason discussions. I will make you do that at some point in April and May. And so we'll do that when the time comes, but sincerely appreciate the time. We'll talk to you very soon. You're a very demanding guy. You say this to everybody as they leave off. I will make you do this. I mean, guess what?

1:05:47Dave Helman: I'm setting up the rest of the calendar today.

1:05:49Robert Mays: I hope you're not surprised when I send you a text on like May 1st being like, hey, anytime in the next month, do you want to come out and do the X and Y? So that will happen. Just be ready for the text to arrive.

1:05:58Dave Helman: I do like it because we all show up and do it for you. The end of the helmet. So it's like a very funny thing. Appreciate you, buddy. You say we're going to, and we will.

1:06:06Robert Mays: I'll talk to you soon. All right, before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break.

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1:08:12Robert Mays: Joining us now, and we're going to have him roll in while we pull up the top 150 graphic and see what's left on the board. It is our friend from Yahoo and Reception Perception, our man, Matt Harmon. Matt, how you doing, bud? What up, boys? Quiet day. Yeah, nothing has happened.

1:08:28Dave Helman: I'm doing fine. I'm not completely fried. I love the part, this is the part of the day where you might go six to 12 minutes without something happening and you're just like, what the hell? I'm bored. Give me more. Give me more with the dopamine to keep going.

1:08:42Robert Mays: Let's go. So not much has changed over our top 50 here as we look at it compared to the last time we checked in. We still got Trey Hendrickson left. That's going to be a really interesting one. Devin Lloyd's still on the board. Odafe Owe, Rasheed Walker, Jermaine Illuminor. A lot of offensive linemen in that collection of players. We saw Josh Shope head back to Seattle. Tariq Wollin still available. Boyamafe, the other Seahawks defender we have not seen come off the board. Matt, I'm curious about, as you sit there and look at Romeo Dobbs being, you know, him and Jawan Jennings being left here.

1:09:10Robert Mays: And we've seen some of the dominoes start to fall receiver. Mike Evans ends up in San Francisco. We see Jalen Naylor head to the Raiders. You're landing spots right now for Dobbs and Jennings. When you think about their skill sets and the teams that need guys like that, what's on your mind?

1:09:26Derrik Klassen: Yeah, Dobbs, I actually was the guy that I had pegged to go to San Francisco. So that, yeah, okay, well, there you go. That moved that off the board. Mike Evans is basically the better version of that. I love that fit there as their ex receiver. I think for Jennings, it's tough with him because frankly, I just don't think he was great last season. Obviously, he was playing through a lot of injuries. Everybody in San Francisco is playing through a lot of injuries. So there is that to consider. But, you know, he also is kind of miscast as I think, again, to come back to the Evans thing, he kind of had to play as their ex receiver, which was obviously not the plan.

1:10:02Derrik Klassen: I don't think that's the ideal usage for him. So I think that's a part of why I think he wasn't as impactful as you probably would have wanted him to be. But Baltimore, to me, stood out as a landing spot for him because I think he brings some size to the position. He's also not old enough to and probably not like a high pedigree enough to land on that disgusting list of like receivers who finished their career with the Ravens. They were 33 years old and were great back in like 2015. But bring some size to the position. I think they need he can play on the ball, allow you to do some fun stuff with Zay Flowers.

1:10:33Derrik Klassen: So that was still one that I think makes a lot of sense for him. And for Dobbs, it feels kind of cheap to say New England, but I've seen that one kind of connected and it would make sense. They do need more help on the perimeter and a guy that can just like consistently pick up first downs. He is a guy that I think helps you move the chains.

1:10:49Dave Helman: There was so much smoke about Alec Pierce to New England. And we talked about them not meeting Indianapolis's price, which is few and far between at this point. but like if you came out of this with Romeo Dobbs at a much lower price point, I would feel pretty good about that.

1:11:05Robert Mays: Yeah, the two teams that again, where I think we're in on the Pierce thing that I think do make sense as landing spots for Dobbs because of needing that skill set, Washington and New England. Those are the two teams that I think are worth mentioning there. I'm curious how you feel about Naylor. The price tag, the fit with the Raiders, just that pass catching group in general. I know you had been doing some work about the free agent receivers before the market opened. So where do you sit with Naylor and his elevation going from decidedly the number three in Minnesota to now profiling as more of a number two option with the Raiders?

1:11:36Robert Mays: Yeah, got that Jalen Naylor charting profile up on the site on Sunday night.

1:11:41Derrik Klassen: So thank God we got that one in before he signs the first day of free agency. No, I really liked what I saw to Jalen Naylor. Honestly, at times I thought he had like the best chemistry with J.J. McCarthy last year, which, by the way, is not a good thing, right? Like it's good for Jalen Naylor, but you don't want your third receiver to have the best chemistry with the quarterback. That's not an ideal situation for a situation that we all know was not ideal in Minnesota last year. But I thought a few things stood out with Jalen Naylor going back and charting his eight games for reception perception last night and over the weekend.

1:12:11Derrik Klassen: Number one, made a lot of plays at the catch point, like contested stuff, attacked the ball well, shielded defenders away from the ball. I thought that was pretty nice to see. Not really a strength of any of those Raiders receivers at this point. I do think they have some interesting, useful guys potentially on the roster, but they don't necessarily have someone that could do that. He's also a guy that I think can play all three receiver positions credibly, probably more of a Z and slot option at his best. But still, I think that allows you to unlock some movement with the other guys there. Because a guy I like Besh as a prospect, but I thought he might be a little bit more developmental.

1:12:44Derrik Klassen: Dante Thornton was like a pure developmental player to me. It still bothers me that they just pushed that guy in the deep end after drafting him from the Looney Tunes, Tennessee offense. That made no sense to me. A lot of stuff did not make sense to me with what happened in Las Vegas last year, but that was one of the more perplexing ones. So I wouldn't want to give up on those guys necessarily. But Naylor allows you to just kind of unlock your best three at the receiver position. In addition, like Trey Tucker is a guy who can legit like stretch the field. He led all wide receivers in snap share last year in terms of like most snaps are on a percentage basis of his team's offense.

1:13:17Derrik Klassen: That's probably not what you want out of Trey Tucker. So again, Naylor just allows you to come in here and level set things a little bit. But yeah, I wouldn't say that the Raiders got themselves a future star or anything with Naylor, but a really legitimate, useful player, which is something they definitely lacked a wide receiver last year.

1:13:32Robert Mays: So let's play this out because I'm interested in this because you do so much thinking about this exact subject. So we got Besh, Trey Tucker, Jalen Naylor, Brock Bowers. If you're trying to piece together what the roles with that group looks like, or let's just say your answer at the end of this may be they still need. I was going to say X, but that's a misleading letter to use when it comes to receivers. They still need fill in the blank in terms of skill sets. How do you think all of those pieces do fit together in an ideal scenario for the Raiders in a world where, and again, this is worth mentioning.

1:14:04Robert Mays: Clint Kubiak, we were having conversations heading into last year about how it was a weird collection of skill sets with Seattle's receivers and it didn't end up mattering. And so he does have some very recent experience with maybe what seems like an odd collection of players and making a really cohesive offense out of that.

1:14:21Derrik Klassen: Yeah, I mean, to put a fine point on it, I kind of do think they need like a nominal X receiver here in this room, like somebody just play on the ball and beat press man coverage consistently. because even if you didn't have proof of concept of Jackson Smith and Jigba being a outside boundary receiver prior to this past year, you definitely, and this was a drum I beat consistently with him, is you did have proof of concept of him being able to beat man coverage. So you could like make a case that he would transition well into that as a three level player, even if it was unproven at that point.

1:14:51Derrik Klassen: I don't think any of these guys rise to that level, even if you do like Naylor. And like I liked Jack Besch as a prospect. Thornton would be that guy. But again, is he ready to do that? I didn't see a lot of evidence as a rookie that he was ready to do that and I didn't expect it to be that as anything again More than a developmental guy. So that's probably like the skill set that they need is is that type of player But and we talked about this a lot last year with the seahawks offense that because they are play out of so many condensed Formations, it does kind of blur the line between slot and outside receivers So I think all of those guys tucker bash and nailer Can do that at just at different levels of the field.

1:15:28Derrik Klassen: You probably would say that like Naylor and definitely Tucker are your deeper threat guys, whereas Besh is going to operate in the short to intermediate area. And I mean, for a guy like Tucker too, and I guess Naylor as well, part of your job is just open up space for Brock Bowers to be able to do everything as a move around threat, which I mean, I remember last year when the Seahawks drafted Elijah Arroyo and John Schneider said like, oh yeah, some of our coaching staff like really thinks he could play X receiver. I'm like, Brock Bowers is like the actualized version of that theory. So I think they'll be able to get away with that more often here in Las Vegas.

1:16:02Dave Helman: Understanding that the answer is everything when you're as bad as the Raiders were. Is there a direction they could go with their new Ravens pick that would get you more excited than other places? It's a really good question. I was pegging offensive line for that pick, but that was before they got Tyler Linderbaum for$81 million. You could still make a very serious argument.

1:16:26Robert Mays: I mean, they need two more offensive linemen though.

1:16:28Dave Helman: I mean, Phil Park is hitting free agency.

1:16:30Robert Mays: Like the DJ Glaze thing is unfortunate. The closest comparison I would make, it reminds me a little bit of what happened with Braxton Jones in Chicago, where mid-round pick thrust into starting role as a rookie plays well enough where he earns the job again the next season. But then you bring in an offensive infrastructure that's just hot, flaming garbage. He plays terrible. And then now you're in a place where do we have to replace him? And the Bears ended up doing that. And so kind of remind, like, it's a developmental plan that has been uneven to no fault of his own, I guess is what I would say.

1:17:04Robert Mays: And that's why I think if when you're on that development plan, you could absolutely justify just being like, we're getting ahead of this. We're going to draft a guy in the first round. We're just going to put this to bed. So if they replace their right tackle and their left guard, I still wouldn't be surprised by that.

1:17:17Dave Helman: That would make me really excited just to watch the Raiders offense. But then you flip over to what their defense looks like right now. and I don't know, it might need some balance between the two sides of the ball.

1:17:27Robert Mays: We just said they have no players making more than$10 million a year. It's an insane roster. It's kind of wild when you actually think about it. The other big receiver contract, Matt, that I wanted to ask you about, I know you weren't overly excited about what his market was going to look like. Wondell Robinson making$18.5 million a year in Tennessee and how that fits with the current collection of Titans past catchers. Where are you at on this? I mean it's fine you know I know that sounds 3 10 p.m we're four hours into this it's exactly

1:18:03Derrik Klassen: where we all are right it's fine especially because also didn't we all come to terms with this was going to happen we just needed to know what the number was going to be like four days ago yeah I mean honestly probably when we all saw Brian Dable get hired by Tennessee we knew that this was coming. But yeah, I mean, look, credit to Wanda Robinson. He played really well last year within his given role. And they kind of essentially just took his really stupid hitch heavy route tree from 2024. And like, what if we threw him a deep post every now and again, like, you know, mostly against like the Bengals and the Cowboys hideous secondaries.

1:18:38Derrik Klassen: What if we just, what if we just did that, which by the way, is what he did at Kentucky with Liam Cohen in college. Like it made sense to finally sprinkle some of that in i mean in 2024 he literally had a negative epa per target 93 catches 699 yards so you could again just sprinkle some downfield stuff that would be nice for him and i think they'll do that here in tennessee um my two concerns uh one is like more of a meta maybe macro level concern but the first one is just like does he overlap not from a how they win perspective, but from a pre-sap alignment perspective, does he overlap too much with Chameer DK, which if you think Chameer DK is just a gadget guy and like a good return player, that's fine.

1:19:21Derrik Klassen: I think that's totally defensible take. Uh, I, but if you think he's more than that, does Robinson block him a little bit there from getting on the field? Cause Robinson definitely has to be a slot player. Who's going to move around the formation a little bit, which again, I think is probably the ideal usage for Chameer DK, but you mentioned blank slate with the Raiders defense like this pass catching group to me is a blank slate so if you just want to throw resources at it and see what stick I think that's fine the second thing again that would just have me concerned if I was a Titans fan not that you're not going to get some use out of Robinson you are and this could also extend to Romeo Dobbs and frankly I think it could extend to like Alec Pierce a little bit too although he's definitely a better version of his archetype than these two guys are are you not just better off trying to find the next version of Wando Robinson or Romeo Dobbs or even again, Alec Pierce, although he was definitely a better prospect and better player last year than either of those two guys.

1:20:14Derrik Klassen: Cause to me, it's just like, I look at those three players and I see three guys that were just good enough to like hang around for four years to starting roles and get better and better and better incrementally throughout their career, because they just, again, had time to develop and grow on the job where like, I thought Dobbs and I guess even Wanda too. They were like terrible players in their rookie season. Like they were just not useful on a consistent basis. But then again, there's 10 % better every single year. Are you not better off trying to find the next guy there rather than paying 18 million, whatever it is for Wanda Robinson?

1:20:48Derrik Klassen: I think that's like a discussion to have, but when you're the Titans and you have all this money, I, I, you got to spend it somehow and you got to try to make a quarterback's life a little bit easier. So I guess I can get behind it in that way. But that was just something that I thought about consistently over the last few days before we headed into free agency.

1:21:04Robert Mays: I love this. And I think it's a really interesting discussion. And I think it's my knee jerk responses. It's all about where you are in the team building process, right? Because having they did get so much better, like watching Romeo Dobbs last year, like the way that the Bears played man coverage late in the season. But you watch Romeo Dobbs last year in one on one situations and just like what he was doing as a third down gotta have it player for that offense. that was not who he was early in his career. And so if you're on the precipice, you think you're competitive, that's the skillset you're missing for your offense.

1:21:38Robert Mays: You're willing to pay a premium for that in the moment because you don't want to wait around for three years for him to develop into that sort of player. But if you're a team that's a little bit earlier in the early stages of this thing, and you have time for those players to grow into those roles, then I think your point totally stands. It's like, well, why would we pay$18 million a year for Romeo Dobbs when we could have Romeo Dobbs in two years for$4 million a year because we drafted him in the third round. But which teams have those years to wait around and wait for that development to happen, I think is the question.

1:22:09Derrik Klassen: Right, like is Alec Ioman or the next Romeo Dobbs?

1:22:12Robert Mays: Maybe, right? Maybe. That's completely plausible to me. And I think the, and this is actually a perfect example because what the Packers didn't do is they didn't sign the$18 million version of Romeo Dobbs to block Romeo Dobbs' development. And that's the reason he turned into this sort of player. And so that's always kind of the push and pull when it comes to these things is, yeah, you can solve this problem with money in the short term, but are you cutting off development pathways to guys that will eventually get there at a cheaper price? And so that's always kind of the push and pull that you're having to weigh in these sorts of moments.

1:22:48Dave Helman: And I think, I mean, ideally the Titans get to a point where that's a problem for them to confront. I don't blame them if they don't think they're there just yet. Even with a couple of young receivers on their roster, like I understand those guys are there. But if you kind of feel like you need to microwave this thing in the meantime to get Cam Ward up to snuff, I understand that compulsion.

1:23:09Robert Mays: Well, what I would say is, let's say the Titans move on from Calvin Ridley, which I don't think would be shocking necessarily at the price. If they decided to move on because they're paying him a lot of money, that makes sense. The best analog for what the Titans are doing right now, you don't have to, it doesn't take much creativity. It's what the Patriots did last year, right? And so let's even play that out further beyond just the amount of money that you're spending. Let's say Wondell Robinson at$18 million a year slots into just the expensive receiver bucket that you put Stefan Diggs in last year.

1:23:39Robert Mays: That still leaves a, can Kayshaun Booty get better for us bucket for you? And let's say you put Iow Manor into that one. It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can do both at the same time. But if you're gonna sign one of those guys, it's gonna come at the expense of reps and development opportunities for some young player on your roster. And outside of Calvin Ridley, that's all they had like all they had was young players at those pass catching spots so yeah i

1:24:03Derrik Klassen: think you saw enough from those guys last year to like i said leave the door open but i wouldn't say that any of them whether it's io man or dk or whatever none of them were just so authoritatively good that it's like okay that position is locked down for us so because the familiarity that is there with wandale and you know with brian dable and everything i i can i can get behind like all right that was the guy we wanted i'm just like would i be the one to pay if i was in charge of things, which I'm not, I'm just in my little box here. But if I was in charge of things, like would I have been the one to do that?

1:24:31Derrik Klassen: Probably not, but I can understand their thinking.

1:24:34Robert Mays: Anything else, any parting thoughts about what's went down today or what's gone down today that you feel like is something that's still on your mind?

1:24:44Derrik Klassen: I think the Colts situation probably landed in a good spot for everybody involved. To me, like I'm just always worried when a guy like Alec Pierce goes and becomes, you know, the number one receiver for somebody else, which his contract would have demanded had he left. And I just think they were so, they were really intentional in how they use Pierce last year. Like, yeah, he was still outside on the line of scrimmage boundary stuff, but they definitely condensed him a lot closer to the offensive line than in previous seasons, which again, gives him so much more space to operate as that X receiver.

1:25:19Derrik Klassen: To me, it's just like had he gone to Tennessee and it's much more of a true spread out offense under Brian Dable with more of a again more traditional like old school leanings at least in my opinion I think there's a chance that like okay he has 84 targets or 90 targets for the Titans next year and he has 850 yards and Titans fans are like why did we pay this guy 30 million dollars kind of in the same way that like the Steelers like Steelers fans are like we paid DK Metcalf 30 million dollars for that last year like I don't know how I don't know how well that contract is age and I frankly think they're like similar actually as a prospect i compared alec pierce to like the the bad analysis on dk metcalf as a prospect like it's kind of stiff can only really run three routes probably has to play on one side of the field and like that's it now pierce has again gotten better that so is dk metcalf but staying home sometimes is like the grass is just not always greener so i think that actually landed in a pretty good spot for pierce even though the idea of him with drake May was pretty fun.

1:26:16Derrik Klassen: I do think like staying with the coach that knows you like a team that knows you can still be good. And, you know, for Pittman, I actually with, with DK Metcalf, I think he gets a new deal. He gets to start over. I think Pittman's a really smart player, great culture guy, going to work really hard. Um, it is just kind of funny that the Steelers team that I always hit, like hated this narrative, just they can't miss when it comes to day two receivers, they can't miss. Well, now they've traded for like two other players, discarded veterans and back-to-back offseason.

1:26:43Robert Mays: So I think we could probably put that narrative to bed at this point. I think the Pierce thing is so well-founded. And we look back, we were talking about this last week, we were discussing the recent history for agency and not even just the recent history, but you go back a decade. I mean, the landmines at receiver is crazy. And I think it's, if there's a lasting lesson from that, and the Pierce thing is a really good example of this, receivers are more situational dependent than I think we like to admit sometimes. And so a guy like Pierce, that scenario of it's 90 targets, it's 65 catches, it's 850 yards.

1:27:16Robert Mays: How many times have we had to watch that? We've watched that happen so many times because we just think, well, this guy was productive in this place. He's going to be productive here. And those small little idiosyncrasies and nuances with the role matter so much for getting the most out of those guys. And so allowing him to be in that situation where we've seen him thrive, it just there's so much better the chances of success are just so much higher because there's no confusion and there's no blurriness with what the role should be you know exactly how to get

1:27:47Derrik Klassen: the most out of this guy a hundred percent like and I think too you should always be considering am I signing this guy so he can just come in and replicate his production here probably a bad idea but am I signing him to like help another player like Mike Evans again it's this better version of what I thought Romeo Dobbs would bring to the Niners like him being that on ball X receiver allows like Ricky Pearsall to do more and move around and not just have to be a vertical guy. So you should always be kind of considering that as opposed to just like we're trying to, you know, Dave said earlier, like microwave this production for certain teams that that doesn't make a lot of sense.

1:28:16Derrik Klassen: And specifically with guys that are hyper specific. And if you're making it to free agency, you're a hyper specific type of receiver.

1:28:23Robert Mays: Matt Harmon, always great to chat with you, sir. People can check out all the work you're doing like four times a day on Yahoo. We have the fantasy, the Yahoo fantasy podcast. You're on Football 301 with Nate. Always doing fantastic work. People are not checking out either of those. Please do so. We will talk to you very soon. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me. Our last guest of the day. Got just nothing but runway here. That's for last. Our buddy from PHLY. My guy. Is our guy, Fran Duffy. Fran, how you doing, man? What's happening, guys? A lot, actually. A couple of things that just came down that we have not talked about yet.

1:29:01Robert Mays: There was a stretch. I love when this happens. were just certain position groups. It all happened at the same time. We had the DBs about half an hour ago. We got the edge rushers now. Are you ready? I saw this one. I'm sorry. Well, you know, I can't.

1:29:14Dave Helman: The whole vibe of the show. I can't stay off of Twitter for five hours. Go ahead, though.

1:29:20Robert Mays: Boye Mafe, three years,$60 million to sign with these. Okay, I did not see the price. Holy shit. Three years,$60 million for Boye Mafe. Okay, I'll lay this one on you. If you like that one,$20 million a year for Boyamafe, the Washington Commanders are signing Odafe Owe, four years,$100 million for Odafe Owe to go to Washington. Whoa. And so, again, the edge rusher market had some interesting pieces in it, Fran, compared to a year past. We had Jalen Phillips, we had Odafe Owe, we have Boyamafe. Was wondering where those prices would sort out. It's funny that we have equal distances. So you get Jalen Phillips at$30 million a year.

1:30:01Robert Mays: you get OA at$25 million a year, and now you get Boya Mafia at$20 million a year. There's something very beautiful about that.

1:30:08Dave Helman: Yeah, we had talked about it on our show earlier. Once the Jalen Phillips numbers came out and it was 30 million, we kind of thought, all right, it's going to be high, maybe 27 a year, maybe 28 a year. We did not talk about 30 million a year. And so when that came through, I was like, all right, what does that mean for the rest of the market? For OA to come in at 25? I like the scheme fit with Dan Quinn. I think that could be really fun. I think you get into some of the things that Durante Jones has done in the past. Like I've been around Brian Flores, moving those rushes around. That could be fun.

1:30:37Dave Helman: So I'm excited for that. But that's a pretty penny, man. I mean, when you're looking at some of the other guys that are in that market or even just below that, you know, Danell Hunter, before they just redid his deal, I mean, he was at 24-5. So like that's the echelon we're talking about now with where Odafe Owe is being paid. And then when you get into that next bucket with$20 million a year, I mean, that's a big price to pay for the kid from Seattle. Just phenomenal that he was able to cash in that way. I don't think we actually talked about this at the top of the show, and it was a big price to pay, but when I saw the Cowboys throw a fourth to the Packers for what's left of Rashawn Gary's contract.

1:31:19Dave Helman: I thought you were going to say for what's left of Rashawn Gary. That's much meaner than I typically get from you. That is mean, but fair based on what Rashawn Gary looked like in December and January. As soon as I saw, I was like the edge rusher prices must be nuts. Like the Cowboys must be terrified of what they're hearing out there if they're doing this. And I'm not saying it's going to work, but I understand the logic. If you'd rather hope Rashawn Gary can give you more for a future fourth than$25 million for Odafe Owe or$20 million for Boye Omafe.

1:31:51Robert Mays: I really like this. So you look at just analogous contracts for what the Odafi O-Way contract looks like, Fran. Nick Bonito got$106 million over four years with$70 million guaranteed. O-Way getting$100 million over four years with$68 million guaranteed. And so it just, I think it really speaks very cleanly to what free agency is versus what it looks like when you're re-signing guys in your own building. where Benito has been so much more productive. And again, undersized guys, they give you a very specific sort of impact within the defense, but Benito has been so much more impactful and consistent and productive over the course of his career than a guy like Owe is.

1:32:31Robert Mays: But when you're hitting the market and you have these teams who are seeking out that skillset because they couldn't find their own guys, that's how you get to a place where Odafe Owe is worth the same amount of money as Nick Benito.

1:32:42Dave Helman: And it's, I'm sure the push pull that, you know, I look at it from a player's perspective as well, right? Where if you are Nick Benito and you say, all right, well, I'm getting ready to hit the market. Do I want to stay here in Denver where I've got a proven place where I want to be? I can have success. I'm happy with where I'm living. I'm happy in this situation with this coaching staff, with my teammates. Let's take this deal now where, yeah, I'm pushing up near the top end of the market, but I could probably make more if I wait this out. But what happens if I get hurt? What happens if production falls off?

1:33:11Dave Helman: You get out, there's all these other factors that come into play, but it's the Kirk Cousins thing. It's the Dak Prescott thing where it's like, yeah, like a, but if you hit the market, uh, you've got that ability to just push that future earnings number higher and higher and higher. So, uh, yeah, I definitely felt that honestly, seeing a number of these contracts today, uh, certainly at wide receiver, there were a number of numbers that, that surprised me. You guys were just talking about that. I think when you're looking at it, um, certainly at these premium positions, I think you, you said it, you guys said it over the weekend.

1:33:37Dave Helman: Uh, if you're an offensive lineman that can walk and chew gum at the same time, you're going to get like a double digit million per year guaranteed. I think at the end of the day, wide receiver, pass rush, offensive line. Those are, those are the premium spots. And even just suitable play teams are willing to pay top dollar for that spot.

1:33:58Robert Mays: Boy, a mafia getting that$20 million a year. If you look at it and Paul Daner did a great job of pointing this out. If you account for cap inflation, it's essentially the exact same swing they took on Trey Hendrickson five years ago. And that, and you think about the situation, Trey Hendrickson comes from New Orleans where he's the third edge rusher on that team and you're trying to bet on, okay, this is a guy who's productive. If we put him into a role where he's getting more snaps, can we kind of just extrapolate that production into more playing time and can he be a valuable piece for us? That's exactly what Trey Hendrickson was for the Bengals on that contract.

1:34:33Robert Mays: And now I think they're making a very similar bet here, Fran, about whether Boya Maffei can follow a similar path.

1:34:39Dave Helman: I will say like when Hendrickson was leaving New Orleans you know I was with the Eagles at the time and the Eagles and the Saints had played a lot whether it was postseason in the regular season they played a decent amount it was like a four year stretch run I'd watched a lot of Trey Hendrickson and I felt like that was a good that was a good bet that was a great signing in free I was like yeah I feel good about this this is a good bet to make I don't feel the same the same warm and fuzzies about this bet for Cincinnati you know in my face I think that when you look at his game, he had explosive traits going back to Minnesota when he was coming out of college.

1:35:14Dave Helman: You saw that the potential was absolutely there, but I never felt like the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. And I know that some of the efficiency metrics can paint him in a good light. But I just, in watching Seattle over the last few years, even this year, obviously, with that defense, the versatility I love, he could do a lot of different things, and there's certainly value there. But I did not see that same level of impact rusher where, all right, if I'm able to project this into a bigger role, that I think the numbers are going to take off, that's going to be interesting to track.

1:35:44Dave Helman: I was trying to get him at$14 million a year. Good luck, my friend. I mean, you laid it out last week really well that the middle class doesn't exist anymore. No. I'm talking about defensive end contracts. We're at hour five here. We're having a whole different conversation. Socioeconomic conversation. But, I mean, it's true. I mean, you've got to pay a premium for these guys or else you're fishing at the bottom of the barrel.

1:36:12Robert Mays: So the other, speaking of the Cowboys and the markets and the defensive players they were seeking out, Jalen Thompson is where the Cowboys land at safety. I believe I had the numbers and then I lost them for Jalen Thompson. Three years, 36 million. Three years, 36 million. So this is, I love when this happens, where we just have a price like this is what it costs to sign a player at this free agency. So in this class, it's$12 to$13 million for a safety. Last year, it was$16 to$18 million for a corner. That's what we're doing. So Jalen Thompson, Fran, signs the 2026 Free Asian Safety Contract to head to Dallas.

1:36:53Robert Mays: You obviously watch Christian Parker very close. You know that system. You watch Christian Parker very closely over the last few years. As you think about how Jalen Thompson profiles into that defense and those roles that were filled by Reed Blankenship and others over the last couple of years, how do you feel like Jalen Thompson fits into what Christian Parker wants to do?

1:37:12Dave Helman: Yeah, I think that it is a good fit conceptually. And I think that there's some carryover with some of the things that he did with Nick Rallis, which, you know, out in Arizona, they did some wacky stuff. So it's not completely apples to apples. But in terms of trying to project him forward into this Christian Parker scheme, I do like the fit there. I think when you're looking at Thompson, you're betting on a guy that's got traits. Obviously, it was a unique situation with him coming out. of college football going in the supplemental draft. I think when you're looking at Thompson, this is a player that has that ability to work down close to the line.

1:37:42Dave Helman: He can play split safety, you can move over to the post. I think that that versatility will serve him well. The biggest thing, and I think that when you talk about that system, the safeties and the nickel are so, so important in terms of the term you always use, Robert, the connective tissue of that defense. How often they are forced to communicate with those guys on either side and just being able to kind of pass things along and be kind of that sheriff there on the back end. It's important to kind of have like, do you know that that's what you're getting with Jalen Thompson? But right away, I'm like, all right, who does, who in that building in Dallas now can kind of speak to that?

1:38:21Dave Helman: Well, their offensive coordinator, Clayton Adams, came from Arizona last year and can speak to, oh, you know, yeah, like he can be that, he definitely is that kind of presence there. So I do think that that's probably a box you wanted to check Here in Philly, we were wondering, could Christian Parker pluck Reed Blanketship? A lot of safeties here on the market, would they go with Reed Blanketship? Because he is that guy on the back end for the Eagles in terms of being that traffic cop and kind of setting the defense back there. So him then deciding to go with Jalen Thompson and pass up Reed Blanketship, he must have had someone in there that was able to say, yeah, he's got the physical talent and provides the intangibles there.

1:38:57Dave Helman: And he does. I mean, it's easy to draw the line, and I did it on the show, Fran, for Reblankenship. Ryan Smith is the secondary coach in Dallas now coming from Arizona. That was one of Christian Parker's hires. Yeah, there you go. There you go.

1:39:12Robert Mays: I was like, this reminds me a little bit of when Cam Bynum signed with the Colts last year. When you have those safeties that are coming from those funky systems and you're just putting so much on those guys on the back end, because we always wonder, there's always a question of what's a guy going to look like in different circumstances? What's a guy going to look like when you put something different on his plate? And when you have guys that are coming from those defenses where everything is on their plate, I think you feel pretty good about what they can look like in a different situation. And so Jalen Thompson kind of fits that bill last year in the same way that Cam Bynum did going to the Colts.

1:39:46Robert Mays: Anything else, Brandon, Eagles-wise, that's a front of mind for you and what happened today? Obviously, Jalen Phillips walks out of the building, but I mean, there's nothing you can do about that, right? Like, I mean,$30 million a year, it's like there's nothing you can do. It becomes a version of what the Milton Williams thing was last year. I mean, Fran, like, what do y 'all even do?

1:40:03Dave Helman: Like, is everybody just bored in Philly right now? It's so quiet. Like, you do Jordan Davis yesterday, but I don't know. I even, I would, I was expecting more activity because there's always activity with the Eagles. Yeah, I think the big thing was, and you kind of knew this coming in, that this was going to be a big offseason, and next year will be the same in terms of, like, extending your own and re-signing. And there, you know, I know that there has been a lot of reporting that they were trying to push to extend Jalen Phillips and get that deal done. To me, you were always going to have a walkaway number there because the Eagles went into the season last year with Nolan Smith and Jalex Hunt.

1:40:38Dave Helman: And Nolan Smith at this time last year, everybody's like, you know, rocket to the moon with what he looked like in the postseason. He was just never really healthy this past year and was on injury reserve. They had nobody opposite Jalex Hunt, who was just a safety in the Ivy League like five years ago. So he was like, all right, like he obviously took a big step this year, but you didn't have anybody opposite him. And so they go out and they make that trade. They feel motivated. They feel the urgency to trade for Jalen Phillips. Well, when they acquire him, it was like, yeah, this guy, we want to keep this guy.

1:41:06Dave Helman: He's everything we want in the locker room, on the field, off the field. He's got all the traits. He's a great fit for the system. He's great for Vic. He can project forward into a new defense once Vic Fangio does retire. So I think that they would have liked to keep him. But at some point, it couldn't match what other teams were going to offer. And the point I made up on the show earlier today was that last year, Carolina, they lost out on Milton Williams. Remember, it was reported, oh, Milton Williams is going to Carolina. And then New England swooped in and stole him. So they weren't getting outbid this time for their Eagles defensive linemen.

1:41:38Robert Mays: I'm curious what you think the Jordan Davis deal means potentially for Jalen Carter. Like, do you think this is a move where one impacts the other? Like, is there smoke here? How do you think this ultimately gets resolved with Carter after we saw that contract for Jordan Davis?

1:41:52Dave Helman: You know, we talked about it a couple weeks ago where it was okay. Basically, no bad ideas, right? Let's throw everything on the table. There are different things that Howie Roseman, Nick Sirianni, leadership, Jeffrey Lurie can talk through here this offseason. And one of the ideas was the idea of trading Jalen Carter, even though when healthy, like this guy is an elite player. And that's what you're trying to do in the draft as a choir elite talent. And the Eagles did that. In the top 10, you go and you draft Jalen Carter. Last year, he was not healthy at all. He dealt with a shoulder, literally was not on the field to start training camp because of one shoulder, ended up getting a procedure done, then got a procedure done on the second shoulder.

1:42:28Dave Helman: So he was saying he couldn't do push-up. He couldn't do a push-up at some point mid-season. It's typically hard to do or hard to play defensive line if you can't use either shoulder. So I think when you're looking at Carter, what you saw last year is kind of a shell of what you would come to expect. And he was dominant down the stretch in the second half, the second season when they won the Super Bowl in 2024. My gut tells me that they would love to be able to try and get something done. And you want to try and extend him. And my guess is, is that if he does get extended, he's going to set the ceiling.

1:42:59Dave Helman: He's going to reset the market. You're at 31 and change right now with Chris Jones from an AP Wow standpoint, a defensive tackle. My guess is, is that Jalen Carter will surpass that when that deal does get done, whether that's with the Eagles or elsewhere. Now, a lot of the reporting has been that, you know, teams have called the Eagles. I know that there was like some scuttlebutt that when the Micah Parsons situation was happening, down in Dallas that Carter's name was floated in terms of an exchange for Micah Parsons. And so there were some that said, oh, well, would they do the same thing for Max Crosby?

1:43:28Dave Helman: And so it's been a lot of stuff in the wind, but nothing concrete. I do think that this is a great situation here in Philadelphia for Jalen Carter. And I think that they know, like this guy is a difference maker, a needle mover, one of the best players along the defensive line. So my guess is, is that they're going to try and get something done. I would not rule out, you know, if they wanted to explore the idea of a trade. Mauro Ojimo is also a really good player and he's entering his contract here. I find it hard to believe that they would be able to give Jordan Davis the contract that they gave him and then pay Jalen Carter at top of market and then pay market value for Mauro Ojimo.

1:44:04Dave Helman: You're not going to be able to do all three, especially when you're giving out 30 million plus to Quinone Mitchell and Lord knows what it is going to be for Cooper DeGene and there's too many guys for them to pay. It's one of the double-edged sword of drafting in the way that they have in the last few years. So when you're on that kind of heater, yeah, there's a lot of young talent that you got to pay. But the Jordan Davis contract blew me away. I was surprised by that.

1:44:25Robert Mays: Yeah, I mean, we talked about it a little bit yesterday. It's like, Matt, let's rewind a year. If I told you on March 8th, 2025, that Jordan Davis was going to have the second highest AAV in the league among interior defensive linemen, I'm not sure that's a bet you would have taken. Yeah, yeah, it's funny

1:44:41Dave Helman: because as the Eagles are on that run to the Super Bowl, everyone's like, oh, the Georgia, you know, the Georgia dogs and all these guys and Jordan Davis kind of got clumped in there and in reality because here's the thing what's tough about Jordan Davis is that he's a very easy player to root for he's a great personality he's a great kid that everybody loves everybody around the team he's a beloved in the locker room uh the fans love him so there's a lot to like there but in reality had not lived up to that draft slot was not playing you know was not a presence on third down so it was early down presence only and was really kind of a flash player against the run.

1:45:13Dave Helman: What we saw this year, and there was all the talk, best shape, best shape of his life. And it all started going like midway through the 2024 season, second half of the year, he really kind of turned a corner with the way that he was kind of his preparation and everything and handling his body. Right away week one. And remember Jalen Carter, you know, spits on Dak Prescott, gets tossed from the game before the first play of the season starts. So right away, Jordan Davis in the spotlight. And I thought going through the tape that night, you know, that next morning, he was outstanding. And And it was like, all right, we have not seen Jordan Davis look like this.

1:45:43Dave Helman: And he maintained that throughout the course of the year. Now, still was not really playing that often on third down, but he had turned into a dominant, truly dominant point of attack player, a great run defender. And so when I'm looking at contract projections, I'm looking at like, all right, maybe like an uptick from what Travis Jones took from the Baltimore Ravens towards the end of the year. You know, that's not in the 20-plus million range. So when that came across on Saturday, that that was the number that we got for Jordan Davis. I was shocked because you're putting him in the upper echelon.

1:46:14Dave Helman: You're putting him, even if you say like, oh, we're going to count the fifth year option. And so it's not really 26 million, which is what Milton Williams got on the open market last year. It's actually closer to, you know, 22, 23 and a half, you know, that kind of thing. If you want to play it that way, that's fine. That's still Dexter Lawrence. That's still Deron Payne. Like, you know what I mean? Like that's still a dominant player. Yeah. To me, you can't give him that contract unless you think there's even more meat on the bone that he can take. He can ascend to that level of player. There's been a lot of talk here in Philly, like, oh, well, he's taking the torch from Brandon Graham.

1:46:46Dave Helman: He's that guy in the locker room. If I'm BG, I'm like, you didn't pay me that way. I didn't get that level of love financially. So yeah, it's an interesting contract. We'll see how everybody feels about it here in Philly in a couple of years.

1:46:59Robert Mays: Let's put a period at the end of the edge rusher sentence here that we started with, Fran. Quiddy pay,$16 million a year to sign with the Raiders. It was funny. I thought the quid he pay would be this year's Dai O'Dangbo, right? Coming from the Colts, you know, more flash and traits than production. But young guy, second contract guy as a team bet on him. He gets exactly the same amount that Dai O'Dangbo got in free agency last year to sign with the Bears.

1:47:22Dave Helman: But having just heard these other deals come down, I like that doesn't blow me away. Well, there were there.

1:47:28Robert Mays: The thing is about last year's free agent market at edge. And let me, I mean, without looking at it, I'm pretty sure this was the case. last year there was no Jalen Phillips, Oye Mafé, Orodafe Owe on the edge market. That player didn't exist. Josh Sweat was really the only guy that kind of fit that bill last year. I mean, then Chase Young re-signed with the Saints, but that was it. I mean, there were no guys that were worth really shelling out money for on the edge last year. This year was better. There was no denying that.

1:47:55Dave Helman: If you can make peace with the fact that Tyler Linderbaum did a generational thing, just an insane leap in terms of value of the contract in AAV. I like what the Raiders have done today. Just, I mean, like, I don't know if you can call Linderbaum a sensible signing, but I think it's a high floor signing. And then three or four other, like, sensible signings that just make them a more well-rounded football team. And other than Linderbaum, which that's a huge but, like the rest, like Eric Stokes, Jalen Naylor, Quidipe, these are not insane deals that are going to cripple you. So good job, Raiders.

1:48:33Dave Helman: I think I like what you did here.

1:48:35Robert Mays: Fran, we're going to let you go. Always appreciate it, my friend. We will chat with you again as we get closer to the draft, I'm sure. Best of luck over the next month and a half. We'll talk to you soon. Later, man.

1:48:45Dave Helman: Yep, sounds good, guys. Appreciate it.

1:48:47Robert Mays: All right. So one of the first things we talked about today was whether Tua would sign with the Falcons. That has happened. Officially. Officially. Sources tell The Athletic for Diana Rossini that the Atlanta Falcons plan to sign Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua, talking about Lowe, on a one-year deal.

1:49:03Dave Helman: You know, selfishly, I just appreciate getting it out of the way. Because remember when Russ signed with Pittsburgh and people saw him on his flight to Pittsburgh and there were photos of Russ at the airport and it was this high-stakes drama, except it's not because what are this Russell Wilson Steelers even going to be? Let's just get it out of the way. Let's get Tua where he needs to be. I'd love to wrap the Kyler thing up ASAP as well. we don't need to drag these into being like one and two week contract standoffs. Let's just, let's just do it.

1:49:39Robert Mays: So obviously that's going to be one of the big things. Big thing is that's the fall tomorrow. We still have no Trey Hendrickson deal as we're four and a half hours into this. Most of the other top free agents, let's pull up the top. Yeah. Can we see the list? Yeah.

1:49:51Dave Helman: That's okay.

1:49:52Robert Mays: I mean, for the most part, I mean, it's been updated with all the guys that have signed, right? I mean, Rasheed Walker hasn't gone anywhere yet. Hendrickson, Devin Lloyd, Illuminor. We got the OA thing in there. Well, we went to Washington, but we still got to change a couple of the logos. But the color of the names is correct. So those are some of the bigger names that are still on the board.

1:50:13Dave Helman: Why? Kind of surprised that we've had enough going on that I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it. But I'm kind of surprised Devin Lloyd wouldn't be one of the first guys off the board. Like Alec Pierce was gone 90 seconds after this all opened. So for an unquestionably top of his position guy, first round pick, young player, like second contract player, for him to still be sitting there is interesting to me. Worthwhile question.

1:50:40Robert Mays: Obviously, we had some big spending teams. Jets spending a ton of money today. The Titans spending just an insane amount of money. Godly amount of money. So let's go through the Titans signings just very quickly before we get out of here. Okay, looking at what the Titans have done. we have four years 78 million for Wanda Robinson three years 63 million dollars for John Franklin Myers three years 60 million dollars for Alante Taylor three years 45 million for Kodaflatt and then just it feels like just thrown in it's like me at dinner where I'm just like I will take that too that that was do that by the way it's great Daniel Bollinger three for three for 24 so that's

1:51:16Dave Helman: the uh that's the roasted Brussels in this order like yeah yeah there's some interesting like oh

1:51:22Robert Mays: It's got like a weird like orange thing on it. Yeah, I'll take that. So we right now, if you're adding it up, 84. This is, I'm going to do some terrible math.

1:51:30Dave Helman: Wait, I got, over the cap has it. I'm looking at it.

1:51:32Robert Mays: Total guarantees? Total guarantees, 84 million in total guarantees. For the Titans? That's what it says. No, no, no, no. That's just Elante Taylor and John Franklin Myers. It must not be updated. It's about$170 million in total guarantees

1:51:45Dave Helman: on the first day of free agency. They do have their total. And I know that like if it's not guaranteed, it doesn't really matter. But according to this, so the Panthers have spent the second most total money today. Most of that's obviously... Yeah, they gave GMF 120 million dollars. So it's 121 million dollars. So their other signing was negligible. They're 130 million dollars behind the amount of money the Titans have given out today. Great stuff. 259 million total.

1:52:14Robert Mays: When you see teams succeed with approaching things a certain way, I think that you can start talking yourself into it. And like we said it, the Titans hiring Robert Sala. It was like, this is Mike Vrabel correction. We want Mike Vrabel. We want Robert Sala to be the Patriots version of Mike Vrabel. And they are spending money like the Patriots did last season, heading into year two of that rookie quarterback contract. So Titans have spent a ton. I'm sure there will be other teams that start nipping at their heels as we move it into tomorrow. For now, based on the signings that are rolling in, And I think that's all we're going to have.

1:52:51Robert Mays: This is the only day we're doing this. The only day we're going to be live for five-ish hours. But we will be live every day this week. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday at least. Over the next three days. We will be here 2 p.m. Central Time tomorrow. 3 p.m. Eastern. Fingers crossed that Derek will be here. I don't want to count my chickens here considering some of the travel issues we had yesterday. But Derek should be here. We'll be wrapping up each day of Free Agency. 3 p.m. Eastern. right here at this desk over the next three days. Very much looking forward to that. Really, really, really, really appreciate everyone who stopped by today.

1:53:26Robert Mays: I don't even know if I can roll through all of them without missing anybody, so there we go. Thank you to Bill Barnwell, JP Acosta, Jordan Rodrigue, Deontay Lee, Nate Tice, Ben Solak, Danny Kelly, Connor Orr, Mina Kimes, Mike Sando, Carmen Vitale, Trevor Sykema, Sam Schwartzstein, Matt Harmon, and Fran Duffy. I love doing it this way. What a cast. Thank you all so much for hopping on. It is a busy day for everybody. Obviously, everyone else is working. And so the fact that people are willing to take time out of a busy day and a busy week to join us, I truly do appreciate it. It's just a fun thing to do.

1:54:00Robert Mays: You know, it's a fun thing to cycle through everybody, get their thoughts, be able to respond to this stuff in real time. I meant it at the beginning of the stream. Truly one of my favorite days of the entire year in the NFL calendar, just because it's a shit show. It's nonstop. There's things flying your way all day. It's a blast. Appreciate everybody who spent time with us today. We will be back tomorrow right here, 3 p.m. Eastern. Until then, appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you soon.

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