Is Sonny Styles the only standout linebacker in the 2026 Draft class?

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2:07Visit VentionTeams.com. Welcome to an all new episode of Building the Beast. I am your host Dave Hellman and today Dane Brugler and myself continued our position previews for this draft class with a very fun look at the linebackers, a loaded class. Of course, Sonny Stiles, the headliner we've talked so much about, but there's a lot of value to be found just after Stiles in this class. Guys like Jacob Rodriguez out of Texas Tech, CJ Allen from Georgia, Anthony Hill out of Texas, who I don't think we've talked very much about, and on and on down the line. So many prospects worth considering in the second round all the way through to day three.

2:50We tried to hit on as many of them as possible, plus a brief update on the story that came out this week involving edge rusher Ruben Bain Jr. out of Miami and where things stand with that. Really loaded show today. Let's get into it.

3:14before we get into the linebackers in this 2026 class some news in this draft cycle some somber news in this draft cycle coming out over the weekend a report from ollie connelly at the read optional over the weekend uh that reuben bain jr the miami star edge rusher was involved in a fatal car accident in March 2024. Obviously, a few days late to this, I believe the news came out on Sunday evening. We're recording this on Tuesday for Wednesday. So if you're not caught up on the details of this, Ruben Bain Jr. was the driver in this car accident. It caused incapacitating injuries to one of the passengers in the car, 22-year-old Destiny Betts.

3:57She would later pass away as a result of those injuries a few months after the wreck. Bain wasn't speeding. There were no signs of impairment and no field sobriety test was administered at the time he was initially cited for careless driving. But that charge was eventually dismissed. No criminal liability has been found in relation to the crash. A civil lawsuit has already been settled. So that's that's the nuts and bolts and obviously wishing condolences and the best for the family of destiny bets. But it has created a conversation around the nature of news of this matter as it pertains to draft prospects, particularly as you get closer to the NFL draft, because we're just over a week away.

4:44And it's hard not to notice that this feels like it was a little bit of an open secret in the NFL draft community. Obviously, several reporters coming out after Ollie Connelly's initial report saying, hey, this was known about. Most teams deem it as a settled matter. And then even, you know, NFL general managers, I think Brad Holmes, just by happenstance, did his pre-draft press conference the very next day and said, yeah, we've known about this for a while. It doesn't really change anything from our standpoint, which does lead to an interesting conversation about why does this come out now? Why?

5:25Why was it something that was underreported for so long ago about a guy with top 10 draft stock? But on top of that, does it need to come out if there was no criminal liability? The charges were dismissed. The Destiny Betts's family also issued a statement saying they wish Ruben Bain well. and, you know, they would prefer privacy in this time. So it's a big knot to untangle when you're talking about how do stories like this fly under the radar for as long as they do and what is the role of the media in reporting something like this. So it's been an interesting two or three days since this initially hit most people's radars, I would say.

6:09Yeah, no, and absolutely. I'm glad you framed it that way as a tragedy because somebody did lose their life. And I don't know that we have anything to offer that hasn't been said already in the last few days. But this is something that teams have known about and something that they've done a lot of legwork to understand the situation, understand what happened, understand just the role of especially with Reuben Bain and his partner. And it doesn't sound like, you know, there's anything criminal related or anything that teams need to be worried about from a character perspective. And, you know, this has been something that, you know, teams have been talked about at the Combine.

7:03They talked about it last summer. You know, like it's something that has, you know, they've known about, obviously. And so they've had plenty. This isn't a thing where they're scrambling to get late information like they've done all the legwork. And so, yes, it just did become public now. But it's not something that I think, you know, teams are going to be scrambling to find late information when it's something that I think they've kind of put the matter to bed internally based off of their own investigation into the matter. I think all that said, I don't think that it's something that's really going to affect him come draft night.

7:43Keep our eyes out for any other twists and turns as it pertains to this story, if there are any. As I said, it looks like the matter has been relatively settled, but we'll keep our ear to the ground. And again, one more time, wishing the best condolences for the family of Destiny Betts. I'm sure having all of this dredged up into the national consciousness has not necessarily been easy. So we will leave that there for the time being, and we will get into the meat of this week's episode, which is our linebacker preview, Dane. And we're going to follow pretty much the same format. We've got a few categories, but the main goal here is to work our way down this linebacker class, starting at the top and getting down more into the nitty gritty, the day two, day three prospects, which we're going to do this in record time.

8:36We really, there's no way we need to say many words about LB one in this class, a top five prospect in this class for you and for pretty much everybody else. Sonny styles is the, the cream of the crop of this off ball linebacker class. We expect him to hear his name called in the first 10 or 12 picks at the absolute worst and I just don't know how much more we need to say about it. Yeah, and I think it's been something we didn't come out of nowhere, I guess, even going back to my initial top 50 in August. I mean, he was in the top 25, a player that was kind of ascending and then throughout the season, it was like, okay, yeah, this is a much better player than what we We saw in a 2024 tape, which makes sense considering he made the move from safety to linebacker.

9:30Good to see that progression. And then what he meant for that team down the stretch was monumental. For a young player, just turned 21 years old, the physical traits are outstanding, but you're also encouraged by the intangibles. So Sonny Stiles is going to be a top 10 pick. It's just a matter of, is he going to go as high as four to the Titans, five to the Giants? Do we see a trade up? Could the Cowboys go get him? there's gonna be plenty of suitors for Sonny style in this top 10. I am really fascinated to see what it looks like and how this draft class influences how highly he goes, his athleticism, how much his workout numbers combined with maybe a little bit of pass rush ability that he's shown on tape, like how much all of that influences.

10:16But I do want to move past it pretty quickly just because for my money, If I had to go back and listen to the guys that we love the most and talk about the most, I think Sonny Stiles feels like the favorite in the clubhouse. Him or his teammate, Arvel Reese. They're certainly up there. So we love Sonny. We expect him to hear his name very early on Thursday. But for the purposes of this, I'm a lot more interested in the next rung of linebacker prospects in this draft and in your rankings in the beast, Dane. because starting with number two, Jacob Rodriguez, and going down to number five, Anthony Hill Jr.

10:55out of the University of Texas, your next four linebackers are all lumped in between slot 40 and slot 50. So it's a very crowded race for the next linebacker off the board. And to hear it from you, they can all expect to start hearing their names relatively early on Friday night. Right. And the consensus seems to agree with that. But what I think is interesting, so I'm just I'm looking at the consensus big board, which has CJ Allen out of Georgia at 34. And then you drop down. Anthony Hill is the fourth on that. Excuse me. Jake Golday is fourth on that list at 53. So it's the same range with different names in different places.

11:39So I just want to talk to you about why you value guys where they do. Let's start with Jacob Rodriguez, who is your 40th overall prospect, your second linebacker. Clearly there was some tight competition between C.J. Allen, Jake Golday, Anthony Hill Jr. How did you wind up with Rodriguez as the next guy off the board? I think we touched on this through the process. It's just been a steady climb for Rodriguez. During the season, he had an outstanding season, obviously. You know, 128 tackles, 11 combined forced turnovers, seven forced fumbles, four interceptions. Those are big-time numbers. I mean, that's like, you know, it kind of reminds me of like what Manti Teo did for Notre Dame way back when.

12:30But the big difference between the two players is Jacob Rodriguez is a much better athlete. Sorry for the Manti Ateo's getting killed here, and I didn't mean for that to happen. But Jacob Rodriguez is just a better athlete. And he showed that at the Senior Bowl, showed that at the Combine. And every step of the process, Jacob Rodriguez is, I think, passing with flying colors. And so at first it was like, okay, tape's good. Yeah, this guy might go day two. and then seeing him up close at the senior bowl I was like okay yeah this is a this is someone that's trending towards being a top 50 guy and then combine okay another data point check the box and you just you run out of reasons why this guy shouldn't be the number two linebacker in my opinion and I mean you said Friday I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ended up on Thursday night um it just you know it depends on who's picking where and because after you get you know, past pick 15 or whatever, the player you draft at 17, is he all that different than who you're drafting at 47?

13:39Probably not. I'm sure the grades that teams have are going to be very similar. And Rodriguez, if a team really wants a linebacker, Rodriguez is going to look awfully appealing. And so I think I wouldn't be surprised if he snuck into the first. If not in the first, I think he goes pretty quickly on day two. And so for me, it's just the athlete, the intangibles, the production. It's just he checked every box over the last six months. Okay, let's dive deeper into that because that's what I think is so interesting about this is I think let's just talk about them all. Jacob Rodriguez, CJ Allen, Anthony Hill.

14:14No offense to Jake Golday, but I think these three really kind of qualify for this conversation a little bit more, in my opinion, because they are all very visible players from very visible college football teams that have that they had really nice seasons. They've got, you know, really nice intangibles, workouts, all that good stuff. And I think all three of these guys have a fan club of people saying, well, why can't I get this guy in the first round? Like, why aren't, you know, C.J. Allen was a freshman starter at Georgia who was all American. And he's like an extra coach on the field. Why?

14:51Why? Why aren't we talking about him as a first round pick? Jacob Rodriguez. I mean, the trophy case is absolutely ridiculous. Like Bednarik, Lombardi, Nagurski, Butkus, All-America, Heisman contender as an off-ball linebacker. Texas Tech made a run in the college football playoff. Why aren't, why aren't we talking about him as a potential first round pick? And I think even mainly because of the athleticism, I think people would say similar things about Anthony Hill Jr. So do you think, and I mean, you already said this about Rodriguez, how many of these guys have a realistic chance in your opinion to be first round picks?

15:27And if they don't, why not?

15:32You know, like I said, because there's the picks, the grades that you're going to have on your 20th best player are not going to be all that different than who you're going to have on your 45th best player. I mean, I guess nothing would really surprise me in terms of any of these linebackers getting into the first because depending on the team need and exactly what type of linebacker they're looking for, it's the same way we talk about the pass rushers. It's the same way we talk about the wide receivers. You know, there's not a ton separating some of these guys on team boards. it just comes down to fit and what exactly they want at that position.

16:06And so, you know, C.J. Allen is different than what Jacob Rodriguez offers and different than Anthony Hill offers. And so, you know, Anthony Hill gives you a little bit more athletic upside, even if, you know, there's an inconsistency level there that, you know, I'm not as high on Anthony Hill as some other people are. Where with C.J. Allen, I like the player quite a bit, but then him not doing any testing during the process. He didn't look great at the pro day. I mean, he was fine, but he didn't, he didn't come off. He didn't perform like a first round pick like that stuff matters to teams. And so, um, you know, it's something where I, I think opinions are a little mixed based off of who you talk to the defensive coordinator, the, the structure of the defense.

16:50And so there's no right or wrong. This is how they should be, uh, ordered. It just comes down to preference at that point. So I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the way that you have this stacked, I mean, Jacob Rodriguez is so clearly just a good, solid football player right now. Where was he on the consensus board? He on the consensus board comes in at 44. Okay. So inside the top 50 on the consensus board, he's a full 10 slots behind CJ Allen. whereas on your board I believe you have it Rodriguez at 40 40 and Allen at 46 so pretty it's a pretty healthy difference between the two things I would say it was so is he linebacker three on the consensus board then yes okay and Rodriguez tested better obviously like I think he he put so many concerns to bed with his athletic testing you're still probably not talking about a guy that has elite athletic upside.

17:50And I guess you could say something similar with CJ Allen. I do wonder how much of that is related to the meniscus repair, or do you think that's not an issue? I mean, it happened in, what, November? So it's like I'm sure there's at least something to that. And that's where it gets a little murky. And when we look back on this in two, three years, obviously we'll have a different perspective, understanding where these guys ended up and were they in a good spot to really show what they could do and show their strengths. I know as part of this conversation, we'll talk about some best fits. And I think about a guy like Jacob Rodriguez.

18:29If he goes to a team like to the Giants, I think that would be – I like that fit quite a bit for what he could bring from day one and what he could mean for that defense as opposed to maybe if he goes to a different team where maybe the fit isn't as clean. So that's as much about this conversation as anything. We can talk all we want about what these guys do well and what they look like as prospects, but the conversation shifts pretty quickly after these guys are drafted and we find out, okay, so he's going to be in this scheme doing this. Okay, I understand why they went this way. And so I think that really brings a lot of clarity to the situation.

19:11do you think it's fair on my part to say and i i spent extra time over the last couple days watching all of these guys cj allen i'm just gonna say i get it if the testing numbers scare you a little bit or the lack of them i should say like if the fact that he didn't do it scares you a little bit maybe you think he looks a little stiff i don't know i love the guy i don't i don't think i want to overthink him too much like his track record at a program like Georgia and the stuff you hear Kirby Smart say about him combined with the fact that he's always in the right place and he works through trash like a son of a gun I just I really like the player I like watching him play football and I don't want to overthink it too much oh yeah no 100 I mean Rodriguez becoming my linebacker too over the process it's more about Rodriguez than anything because I, yeah, I'm a CJ Allen fan.

20:06In my report, I said he could have a Nick Bolton-like impact, you know, a guy that maybe a little undersized and, you know, you can poke holes in him, but he's just a good football player. And at the end of the day, that's what we're in the business of is drafting good football players. And so, you know, he's, you know, maybe the Dollar General version of Roquan Smith where, you know, coming from the same program, it looks kind of similar when you watch it on tape. He's just maybe not quite on that same level. But there's still obviously going to be a place in the NFL for a guy with that talent.

20:40Having said all of that, do you think I'm off base if looking through these guys? I didn't love watching Anthony Hill's tape. I just, from what I saw, it was fine. but clearly the the upside though I think the if if you're hunting upside I think it might belong to Anthony Hill Jr like I'm not going to be shocked if you know you're looking back in a few years saying oh my god like this guy tapped into another level than what we saw in college because he's just a freak like I can't say that would shock me when you're talking about 93rd percentile in the 40 yard dash 80th percentile in the vert 88th in the broad I mean there is a level of explosiveness there when you watch him play 17 sacks for his career as an off ball linebacker 31 and a half tfls over the course of his texas career like there's a lot of reasons to be excited by a player like this even if the tape right now is not as good as cj allen or jacob Rodriguez.

21:45And he just turned 21. He's a young player. And so you like that he showed up at Texas and immediately produced. He was a guy that was making a big impact for that team. I've never really viewed him as high as some other people, but I get the appeal because of the athleticism. It's just a matter of, okay, what is his best fit? When you were watching him, Was there a player or a fit that jumped out to you that you would like to see Anthony Hill end up in, whether it's, you know, in a certain scheme or a certain role where you feel like a best can show what his talent says he can do? I mean, I'm not going to make unfavorable, unfair comps.

22:33I'm not even going to say any names because it's not fair. But I was just watching him and I was like, somebody needs to get this guy as like a DPR and an A-gap blitzer, mug him up on the line and send him after the quarterback and worry about the rest of it later. I mean, I think this is a guy who can do some really fun stuff for you, particularly as a pass rusher. And hopefully he grows into being a more well-rounded linebacker over time. That's what I would say. And that's, it's not to compare him to any NFL players that have done that at a high level, but that's what he looks best at doing when I have watched him play football right now.

23:15Yeah. And I think that's fair to say. And that's what makes it interesting about, okay, where is he going to end up and how are they going to use him? Because again, And the athleticism stands out for a guy that's 6 '2", 240 pounds, decent arm length. But at the same time, yeah, I want him moving forward more so than backwards. I don't know. I struggle with Anthony Hill. I'm not going to be high man on him. But I get why there is love for him out there. Do you think, like, for some reason the team in my head, and I'm not saying this would be at pick 23, but the team that jumps into my head is Philly.

23:55Do you think that's off base? I mean, I get it based off, I mean, Jihad Campbell, who they dropped in the first round last year. It's not really a need right now. I'm just talking about a place where I could see him fitting in very well. Right. Well, and, yeah, I think about they do, like, their positions to kind of overlap a little bit where it's like, yeah, he's a corner but also safety, and he's a nickel but can also do this, And same thing with their linebackers where, yeah, he's a linebacker, but he can also rush or he can also drop. And I don't know about Hill dropping, but as him going forward, yeah, I mean, I think that that would fit what they want to do.

24:34So that's a good team to bring up. It's sorting through the stack is going to be very interesting. I understand why all of these guys have their fans. And I wouldn't I don't think I'd be surprised by any order that they came off the board. There's one more guy I want to mention in this range, but we'll take a quick break before we do that. You know that hoodie you can't stop reaching for? The one that feels like a second skin, soft, warm, somehow makes you feel a little more grounded? Well, I've found it. And trust me, it's not what you'd expect. It's called Paka, spelled P-A-K-A. And if you're tired of hoodies that stretch out, pill, or feel heavy, this is the upgrade you've been waiting for.

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27:57Do you think I'm off base for this, Dane? Like, to me, it seems like Jake Golday, your guy, one of your capital G guys out of Cincinnati. He doesn't quite seem on the same level to me as Alan Rodriguez Hill or or am I off base? Like, should I be thinking of him more as a candidate to be the second or third linebacker off the board? Well, I mean, he's my fourth linebacker, so I have him above Hill in my own personal rankings. And I mean, I think that for a former defensive end to transfer up to from the FCS level to the FBS level and play at the level that he did, you're encouraged by that. And it's not just that he played well.

28:45It's OK. He had over 100 tackles. OK, he is showing improvements week in, week out in coverage in terms of spacing and driving on plays, the overall timing of what it takes to play, be a coverage linebacker, you know, reaching your zones and your drops. And but being in position to make plays on the ball still has ways to go. And that's why I think we're talking about him as a fringe top 50 guy. but for a guy that size, you know, we just mentioned it with Hill. You know, he was a 39-inch vertical. You know, he was 4 '6", 2 in the 40, and this guy is massive. He looks like a defensive end. So 6 '4".5", around 240 pounds.

29:26You know, there's just a lot of things that I think you look at how teams like those hybrid guys that can be versatile. Golday's in that conversation. So I think he's going to have a lot of fans when it comes to day two of the draft. There are a lot of guys in this class who you wish they were a little bit bigger. Not that they're necessarily small, but maybe, yeah, I just wish your arms were a little longer. I wish you had eight to ten extra pounds on you. It is not the case with Jake Golday. He really looks the part when you watch him out there. He's a big dude. and a really in a really physical dude.

30:08Like I didn't think his change of direction was as great as you'd want it to be considering the draft range that we're talking about. But he is incredibly athletic and straight line fast. He always seems to to know where he needs to be. I watched the Kansas game this morning and the way that he just kind of took that thing over in the final five or six minutes of the game i was like okay this is what we want to see like the chips are down covers so much ground uh it just it's crazy and i mean to your point like um i he had a better three cone than sonny styles did so i mean like he's just he's a really good athlete and he touches so much grass throughout the course of a game that is that's surprising because i just i thought there were some moments where like if he was moving one way and had to go back the other way it didn't always look as like twitchy as I wanted it to but if he has a better three cone than Sonny Styles then I'm probably not giving him enough credit but I I laughed out loud at the end of that game like Jalen Daniels the Kansas quarterback gave Cincinnati fits all day in this game and he had already made a few nice plays but like games on the line Cincinnati's protecting a lead at the end and they just spied Jalen Daniels with Jake Golday and game over like he was just all he was just all over him be lining for the quarterback erasing quarterback scrambles uh I I had a lot of fun watching him this morning yeah and not to step on best fits again but I'm just thinking about like the Colts and what they need at the linebacker level and I I don't know.

31:54I think he fits a lot of what Indianapolis could use on that side of the ball. All right. So am I off base or is that that's most of the like round two contenders like looking at your list? Now we're starting to get into the firm third round grades. Am I right? For me, yes, I think that makes sense. So let's commence with the categories. And I'm working down the list a little bit. but one category we wanted to hit was best thumper. I know who mine is, but I like to let you go first. So who you got? Well, I'm wondering if it's the same guy. I kind of spoiled my choice here by the fact that I said I'm going to be working down the list a little bit, but you go ahead and tell me.

32:38NFL Bloodlines? Yeah, yeah, actually. Okay. Oh, no. We're going to have the same answer. Yeah, tell them who you have. it's josiah trotter out of the university of missouri who is in fact the son of eagles legend jeremiah his brother jeremiah jr is in the nfl right now as well and he's just a heat seeking missile man he's so violent at the point of attack um like the word thumper is just perfect for him because that's the way he plays. He creates knockback at the point of attack. He wants all the juice. I mean, just he wants it all, and he's going to try and go right through you. And so as a downhill, traditional middle linebacker, that's what he is.

33:29You know, in 1996, this might be a top 15 pick, right? Because of just the way that role was valued in 90s NFL, whereas today's NFL things are a little bit different and that's why he's a third rounder for me when you factor in coverage and everything else but when you just factor in a hammer looking for a nail Trotter's the guy that stands out above everybody else because he's so physical and he he doesn't slow at contact he goes through contact and so there's going to be a lot of linebacker coaches hoping that they get a chance to coach Trotter at the next level. I don't remember if I found this in the Beast or somewhere else, but I believe today is Josiah Trotter's birthday.

34:17Yes, it is. The 15th, it is. Good call. Well, the day this releases, I guess it's not quite his birthday as we record this, but on Wednesday, it's his birthday. And honestly, that sold me even more on Josiah Trotter because I'm watching him and your wonderful write-up made note, like, maybe this is a guy who needs a little more seasoning and coverage and you can kind of see that i don't think he's as confident moving backward as he is moving forward which is i mean that's a tale as old as time for linebackers but when i realized looking through the beast that he is just now turning 21 i i don't give a shit we'll we'll sort that stuff out get get yourself into camp and we'll work on that like if this is what you look like at 21 years old, I'm all for it.

35:07He's very, very active, very confident. The one thing that really stood out to me about him, he plays the entire game like on the balls of his feet. Like he is just hopping around. He is like trying to time up the snap count, looking like trying to get a running start anywhere he's going. And he's usually right about it, by the way. And it just it makes him a very fun guy to watch. yeah i agree i just no testing information um i do question if he can get there in coverage um and that's why you know again he's a player that i i would love to draft for the 70th pick um or you know somewhere in that third round range it's just if the price tag's a little bit higher that's where i might have trouble but um if you're looking for that thumper he's your guy.

35:59I do question how much upside he does have in coverage. I just I'm not sure he's ever going to get where you want him to be where you trust him, you know, dropping back and making plays. That would be the my big hang up with him. But as a as a competitor, and as someone that loves to loves the physicality of the position. Yeah, it's hard to get better in this class than Trevor. This is easy for me to say as somebody that doesn't actually have to draft a guy. But But if I'm worried about like if he was great in coverage, he'd be going way higher. Like that's the whole thing is especially sitting down to watch.

36:3910 to 15 linebackers at a time to do a show like this and, you know, make sure I'm on top of everything. What else is new? Like who which college linebacker is great in coverage? Like every single time you turn it on, you're like, all right. I don't know if I love the coverage ability, but but this is really fun. And so I just kind of made my peace with that for a lot of these guys. And especially if you're picking them in the third round, I think you just you hope for the best that that can develop as you go. And if this is if this is what it looks like early on, I still think that's pretty nice.

37:14Yeah, and it's not to say he can't develop and improve. I'm thinking about back to the Alabama tape. There was a play near the goal line where he was late to feel the route and just late to understand what the offense was doing. And so you hope with more and more reps, more and more experience, he's going to figure it out and get there, get closer. But, yeah, exactly. That's what we're talking about is a third-round pick and not a top 50 pick. One more note on Trotter because I was a big fan of his. Wearing number 40, I'm listening. I like there there's there's nothing wrong with the guys that want to wear the low numbers and the sexy numbers but a guy who's willing to wear 40 I'm just like okay this is this is blue collar lunch pail stuff right here like we're here to hit the hell out of people and not worry so much about what our number is and I like that yeah no I think he's an easy player 27 reps on the bench press.

38:14I mean, clearly this guy is what you want in terms of how he's wired both on and off the field. And I, like I said, there, there'll be some linebacker coaches just hoping that he falls to their team and they have a chance to really coach him up. Having just said that no college linebacker covers very well, let's do best in coverage. Cause there are, I mean, there are some guys worth highlighting and I bet I know what your answer is going to be here too. uh well i mean we're gonna include him in this conversation um we can have the debate about whether or not he's actually a linebacker but for me kyle lewis um the pit linebacker uh that's the one safety slash nickel slash star um okay so what what are what do you what do you do with kyle lewis in the nfl dane like that's really my question for you that that's that's the question That is what teams are trying to figure out.

39:12Some teams are going to say he's not a linebacker. He's a safety. Some teams are going to say, you know, he's going to be more of a true nickel for us. More of that, you know, that star position. That's what makes him a difficult evaluation. Like, he's not a take-on player. So you can't just say, oh, well, he's a linebacker. We'll figure it out later. It's just not that easy because he's not going to take on blocks. and you're going to realize that pretty quickly that he's just not your traditional linebacker or what teams, a lot of teams ask of what their linebackers to do. Now, if you have a specific role in mind where, hey, let's make him our nickel player where he can play outside and show off that range, show off that man coverage ability.

39:57I would love to have Kyle Lewis on my team and for us to try to make it work because he's an outstanding athlete. The character's off the charts. The football character is tremendous. He's been productive. There's just a lot to like about him where what he was asked to do at Pitt is going to be pretty different than what he was asked to do or what he will be asked to do most likely in the NFL. And so it's just going to be interesting to see where he ends up and just the exact vision they have for him in the NFL. Tell me what you think about this. And it's understandable that we are we're hunting the next Emanwari, right?

40:37Like we're hunting the huge nickel, the enormous safety who's athletic enough to do all this stuff and coverage and can hang in hang with big time athletes moving away from the line of scrimmage or big cornerbacks. Either way, we're hunting for a big nickel. is it is there a flaw in the logic of well why can't that be a small sam like at the end of the day like a huge nickel can like it could be a you could just have a third linebacker he's just got to be athletic enough to do the same stuff like he could like kyle lewis i i don't want to say that definitively i don't know if kyle lewis could do that stuff but could you exactly like could you look for a guy in a slightly different package to play the same role instead of a huge DB he's a small linebacker and at the end of the day you have basically the same thing like I wonder I wonder how seriously teams might take that suggestion right and I think that how he performed because there wasn't a ton of man coverage on his tape he was primarily a curl flat zone defender at Pitt.

41:48And so, but seeing him at senior bowl, going through practice and seeing his man coverage ability, I think that's where teams were really swayed as, okay, yeah, we feel better that he can do this. He can blanket running backs, tight ends, shoot even receivers. We feel like he's not totally outmanned there. So him on the outside as more of a nickel player, to me, that's the best way to use his range, his instincts, his man coverage ability, where he's not going to be He asked as much to take on a block and, you know, he can make guys miss in space in terms of avoiding those blockers, getting to the ball.

42:24So Kyle Lewis, I, I, I want him on my team. I want his nose for the ball, his ability to break down exactly what the offense wants to do, communicate that and what he brings off the field. Yeah. I want this on my team. It's just, there's a hybrid version of a player here. You just have to be comfortable with what that looks like. If you're interested in the draft, but maybe you don't follow college football on a like during the season, Kyle Lewis's coach is Pat Narduzzi, who is one of the. He's just one of the crustiest, like old school college football coaches there is like he is. He is a throwback in every sense of the word.

43:08and in the beast which is such a valuable resource in case we don't say it enough pat and our duties quoted in dane's guide as saying i've never had a player that watches as much tape as kyle lewis he he does more than anyone that i've had and for for a guy like that like pat and our duty is very he's very vic fangio-esque in just in terms of like his demeanor and his personality and all football all the time for a guy like pat and our duty to say that made me take notice. Like, I made a note of it where I was like, okay, this is the type of player I'm getting in Kyle Lewis. It's a huge green flag for me.

43:47Yeah, no doubt. But a player like this, it makes it tough to, like me, doing this from a general perspective where I don't have a scheme that I'm scouting for or a specific role. It's hard for me to put a grade on him where, you know, he goes to one place And I might be like, oh, yeah, OK, I was too low on Kyle Lewis or he goes to another place and it's like, oh, I might be too high just because of trust in that defensive coordinator and scheme to use him the right way. But I just I don't know. I have I have confidence that they'll figure it out. The player is just that impressive. It's just you have to sacrifice some of the size and understanding of what he is.

44:32And so it'll be interesting, interesting on draft night. I mean, I think he'll come off the board somewhere Friday night. Just OK, will he sneak into the second? Will he be in the third? And then, you know, who drafts him? That'll be really interesting to see play out. Yeah, I'm definitely making a mental note on Friday of which defensive play caller is getting their hands on him. Has there been a player for you, and I'm putting you on the spot, so I apologize, where you thought one thing about a player, and then he got drafted, and then you immediately thought, oh, okay, never mind. You know, he's going to be better than I thought because of where he – and, like, for me, I always think that way with doing a live show with Nate and Robert two years ago, and Bo Nix was a second-round player for me.

45:17And then Sean Payton drafts him at what 12th overall. And immediately it was like, okay, I was probably a little too low on because based off of where he landed, that fit is everything. And that's what mostly with quarterbacks, but with all these guys, especially a guy like Kyle Lewis, where, you know, if he goes to a certain spot, you feel a little better. Without having seen him on the NFL field, you feel a little bit better about how he's going to translate because of the care that he's with with that team I mean the one that stands out to me and I wasn't doing the draft as as intimately as I am this year for last year's cycle and it's it's not that I thought I'm in worry was a bad player but I just remember thinking like okay this this guy's a physical freak how does that translate what do you do with him is it really gonna be as enticing as it looks on paper because of how good the workouts are.

46:17And I should have known faster because I do think the world of Mike McDonald. But, you know, going coming out of that draft, I was like, OK, this could be a really good player, but maybe it's going to take some time. And it was a learning experience for me where I was like, OK, just pay attention to who Mike McDonald drafts and shut the hell up next time. That's a good way to put it. Yeah, no, and not only McDonald, but the situation where, you know, playing next to Devin Witherspoon and that group, yeah, that makes a ton of sense. That's a good one. Before we move on to the next category, I did want to ask you of that batch of day two, early day two guys that we already went through, Rodriguez, Allen, Hill, and Golday, who do you like the most as a coverage player right now among that group of players?

47:10I'd have to say Rodriguez, just the way the ball finds him. You know, I think there's there's something to that. He's a former quarterback. And I always think that translates where, you know, just having the that experience where you're used to reading coverages. And then all of a sudden you're making that adjustment to where you're on the opposite side of it. And you have to play the opposite role in the cat and mouse game. I think that is something that you see with Rodriguez, and it helps him be in the right spot at the right time. And at a certain point, you just start or you stop saying it's not coincidence anymore.

47:49You know, the ball finds him, and it's not just by happenstance. He knows what he's doing on that side of the ball. I think it was against BYU, the interception he made where he recovered from a scramble moving to his left and got back right into the throwing lane, tipped it to himself and came away with it. I was just like, all right. Yeah. OK, dude, I get I get why you were fifth in the Heisman voting. Right. Yeah, you're showing off now. I give him a lot of credit for. I don't want to say I was a doubter because I always liked him, but I didn't think of him as a top 50 guy until really the senior bowl.

48:29And after the senior bowl, it was like, OK, seeing him up close in person, it was like, yeah, this guy, he's got the goods. Famous last words because he doesn't have any workout numbers, but I just found myself thinking that CJ Allen is usually in the right place at the right time as well. He doesn't like the ball production's not as good, but I wanted to make a note of that. All right. We're going to take one more break and then we'll get back with a few more categories in this year's linebacker class.

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51:00Let's keep it pushing to best value day. And if you're looking for a value in this linebacker class, it doesn't have to be a day three guy, just a guy who you're going to get some good ROI for where he's drafted. Who you got? Keyshawn Elliott from Arizona State, who is a top 100 player for me. I wouldn't call him a top 100 lock. Some might be higher than me. I don't know. But I certainly know some are lower than me on the player. this is a player who was a high school quarterback wasn't highly recruited went to New Mexico State was actually the same recruiting class as Pavia there and then transferred to Arizona State these last two years and really blossomed as a player I think that you watch him play and you see the athleticism the way he moves how natural it looks how quickly he reads things I think he's wired the right way for how you want your linebacker to be in terms of leadership in terms of communication so functional athleticism toughness football character I mean these are all the things that I want in a Mike linebacker so I'm a big fan of uh Keyshawn Elliott Keyshawn Elliott linebacker eight and I believe just inside your top 100 number 83 correct yep yep that's correct and so it'll be interesting to see where he goes i he might fall into the fourth round and you know i think your team's getting tremendous value at that point and again that's why this is what the category is is about value and i think that elliot's gonna go not as high as he should so this was a note in your write-up but it stands out when you watch him play too i mean he has the instincts and play recognition part of this down and from what i understand i mean And Arizona State staff raves about this guy as like an extra coach, a guy who, you know, wants the most out of the coaching staff, wants to know more, more, more and can help the rest of the guys on the defense out as often as possible.

53:10That seems to really shine through. And I think you just have to make peace with how valuable that is to you in a less impressive athletic profile. yeah and i mean it's not like he was a bad athlete like he so at the at the combine he jumped 38 inches pretty good for 230 pounds um and then at the pro day he ran 458 so he's in the four fives and had a 702 three cone so i mean i he's a good athlete for 230 pounds and i think there's going through the process really like the tape um i thought he was good maybe not great but good at the Senior Bowl and then didn't do everything at the combine, but then finished everything at the pro day.

53:56And so the athletic testing part of it, I'm good. I feel like it matches the tape and it's NFL quality stuff. So I just run out of reasons why this guy shouldn't be a day two pick. I'd just be interested to see if that actually happens and comes to fruition or if he continues to be slept on. Well, that's okay. So you just think people are sleeping on him because I was going to ask you if the athletic testing is that good. But the production is there. Why? Why is he falling? What's going on? I mean, I think part of it's coverage and just being a better, seeing things quicker, being quicker to react.

54:34That's part of it. But for the most part, I just think he's being slept on. You know, I think there's too many things that are in the pro category as opposed to the opposite. it how do you view Keishon Elliott in relation to Caleb Elarms or who I think mea culpa like we try to hit as many prospects as possible and this is a guy that's been on a lot of people's radars but for a guy who led the big 12 in tackles it doesn't feel like he is discussed on on as many short lists among linebacker prospects as some of these other guys. That's fair. Did you watch him? I did. I, it was, it was limited tape, but I did, I think I managed to get two games.

55:25I think his athleticism really, really shows up. I think he looks like a very athletic guy. I really like his motor and I really like that. Again, it's, it's a limited sample size. I will allow, But I just saw that when he got his arms on a guy, he was almost always making the tackle. Like between his motor and his athleticism and his ranginess, he felt like a very sure tackler to me. I felt like I could count on him to make the play when it was there, which is probably why he had three different games with 15 plus tackles. well, I mean, we're talking as much love as we're throwing towards Jacob Rodriguez.

56:08Elam Zor had more tackles in the Big 12. Like you said, he led the conference in tackles, and he played one fewer game than Rodriguez. So, yeah, this is production-wise, check that box. Speed-wise, ran about a 4-4-7 in the 40. So check that box. Character-wise, thumbs up. All the stuff that I got from scouts was hardest worker on the team and, you know, just all this glowing stuff about him as a football character guy. And so it's like, OK, I can, you know, productions there, speeds there, football characters there. It's a great place to start. And, you know, from there is where, OK, maybe you wish, you know, he was a little bit better in this area or that area.

56:54But we're nitpicking at that point. This is someone that should go in the first four rounds. it's just a matter of, okay, does he sneak into the top 100 or will he fall to day three? And if he does, I think team's getting outstanding value at that point. These two in particular, Elliot and Elam Zor, it feels like, you know, if you don't get one of those guys in the group in between 40 and 50, if you're shopping between 80 and 110, this is the discount version of that package. Like that's sort of my read on the situation. I think that makes sense. And I would even throw in, you know, my next guy here, Jimmy Rolder from Michigan, throw him in that mix as well, who, you know, just doesn't have a robust resume at the college level, really just a one year starter.

57:44And it wasn't really until they adjusted and moved Jay Sean Barham from off ball to more of an edge role, which allowed Rolder to get on the field and be an every down player. It wasn't until that happened that we could really see the talent that he had. And Rolder's a guy that, I mean, he was a big time baseball prospect at one point. um you know and it's interesting with with him um mike mcdonald when he was at michigan he was the main recruiter for rolder and so um it's always interesting when you make these connections with guys that are now in the nfl and could be looking at drafting these players and um but having that connection from the college level is always interesting but i i think he's someone that's ascending he's on the way up um jimmy rolder i i've got as a fourth round player and somebody that, you know, has has some starts in his future in the NFL.

58:40Can I put you on the spot? And if I'm taking your day three guy that we're about to do, then we'll just have to pivot. I don't know. But I've been dying to ask you about this guy. Believe it or not, I had a hard time getting my hands on Buffalo Bulls tape. They haven't had a player drafted since Malcolm Koontz. So sorry, I apologize, but I couldn't find any Buffalo tape. but I can't help but notice red Murdoch out of Buffalo. Why are you saying it like that? Buffalo. I'm sorry. I mean, I know Khalil Mack went there, but I just haven't watched a lot of Buffalo games over the last decade or so. I just can't help but notice that Buffalo has a possible fourth-round graded linebacker in red Murdoch, and I'd like to know more.

59:25And Sean Dolak last year at linebacker was somebody that was really productive and didn't get drafted, but, you know, was able to, you know, carve out some type of role with the Rams. Yeah, Murdoch, I mean, probably the craziest or most just, that sounds made up, stat in this draft is Murdoch having 17 forced fumbles the last three years. Like, this just doesn't make any sense. Like, how do you, three years, have 17 forced fumbles, and maybe even stranger than that is the fact that, he broke the FBS record previously held by Khalil Mack, another Buffalo defender, which I don't know what are the odds of that.

1:00:10But it's just crazy to have as much ball production as he did. The tackle numbers are outrageous. Combine the last two years, he has like 300 total tackles. So just the production alone grabs your attention and says, okay, we've got something here. the medicals with him are something that have hurt him throughout the process he had torn ligaments in his right ankle and a fracture in his heel that he played through so we're not going to question his toughness here that's for sure but so I was standing next to him at the Shrine Bowl because he was there even though he had a boot on he was there and not the biggest guy but the talent that he plays with and the way that he approaches the game is just is an easy guy to root for so I'm not sure he's gonna be drafted as high as I'm graded um mostly because of the medicals but this is a good player who um I I don't know I I want him on my team because just the production alone should have you interested my primary Buffalo Bulls memory other than Khalil Mack is Jarrett Patterson just putting up video game numbers back during the COVID season so So I pay attention to Buffalo football when I need to.

1:01:30I just had a hard time getting tape. So thank you for that. He's a magnet to the ball, so I'm glad you brought him up. He's an easy guy to like, I think. But, yeah, I'll be interested to see where he ends up. Once we get to day three, there's still some good linebackers that should be in that range. Bryce Boettcher, who we talked a lot about from Oregon throughout the season, You know, he should be somewhere in that early day three range. Jack Kelly from BYU, Aiden Fisher from Indiana. But Murdoch is right there in that mix as well, at least based off of what he put on tape. A couple more categories to get to before we get out of here.

1:02:10Let's now do let's I mean, some of these guys we've talked about have fourth and fifth round grades from you. But if we're looking for a pure day three prospect that you love, who you got? Yeah, I mean, we mentioned these last four or five guys we mentioned all fall in that category. I think Wade Woodaz from Clemson is an underrated player who doesn't get nearly enough attention for what he meant for Clemson and what he does on the field. He's a bigger guy. I mean, he is 6 '3.5", 236 pounds, didn't work out at the combine, but then at the pro day, ran 4 '5.6", did pretty well. during workouts.

1:02:54Torian York from Texas A &M, this will be the last one I mention. He's not a lock to get drafted because he is under 5 '11". He has 30-inch arms. He just doesn't have the size that teams want. And so because of that, it might be a disqualifier for him with several teams. But man, this guy just understands ball. I mean, the way that he breaks down the play just instantaneously and goes to the ball, it's almost like he has the play before it happens. It's really impressive to watch. And so the lack of size is going to be an issue. It is what it is. But a guy that not, I mean, he's not slow, but he's not the fastest linebacker out there, especially for someone that's undersized.

1:03:41But he's just a good football player. At a certain point in the draft, it just becomes malpractice why he should still be on the board. And so he should be drafted, but I know for some teams he won't be in consideration because just the size thresholds that they have is a disqualifier for them. He's a classic case of a guy who you just, I mean, I've watched so many Texas A &M games over the last three or so months because they have so many players in this draft cycle. and you watch Texas A &M and there's Torrey and York doing a lot of fun stuff. And then you talk to people and it's like, ah, that sucks.

1:04:20He's just, you know, he's not big enough. He's not fast enough. He's not long enough to impress the people that do this for a living. But, I mean, all it takes is one team, A. And then on top of that, I promise you, even if he doesn't get drafted, he will get invited to a camp where he will have a chance to impress people with that other stuff besides measurables. Yeah, I'm thinking about like Pace, Yvonne Pace at the Vikings, who he went undrafted, I believe, right? Out of Cincinnati. And it was mostly because of his size. And so I think that it wouldn't be a surprise at all if even if he isn't drafted, yeah, once he gets into a camp, he kind of separates himself and makes a case why, hey, you can't cut me.

1:05:06I'm too valuable for what you want to do. Undrafted in 2023, hundred tackles as a rookie for the Minnesota Vikings who not, not bad on defense, by the way. So yeah, on, on behalf of all smaller guys, it's not the size of the dog and the fight. It's the size of the fight and the dog. There you go. Speaking of which similar, similar idea for a guy, a day three guy I wanted to highlight. And I think I would have highlighted him anyway because I'm intrigued by this sort of player. But so I, I watched a couple games and then I started reading your beast right up while I was watching him. And I think there's plenty to like, if all you're doing is watching the football, but then when you go read Justin Jefferson's story, I was like, Oh hell yeah, dude.

1:05:58If you're unfamiliar, not, not an LSU receiver, Justin Jefferson, the linebacker out of Alabama, number 10 undersized guy, six flat, two 23, And the thing I when I talk about loving his story, a zero star recruit. Only recruited by FCS schools coming out of high school, wound up having to go the Juco route for a couple of years. Good enough Juco player to get a scholarship to Alabama on top of like eight other football powerhouse scholarship offers. Goes to Bama, takes him some time. I mean, he is he got his first shot as a starter this past year after three years at Bama, which maybe you say that's not great.

1:06:42But to go from FCS offers to starting at Bama, first of all, I think kicks ass. And then he just hits. He he packs a punch for a guy who is six flat to twenty three. Like you can feel his contact through the screen coming from a guy who and like you look at his measurables and you're like, damn, he's he's that small. hitting the shit out of people like that. And, you know, I know obviously when you're talking about a guy with his draft grade, there are some warts to his games, but I appreciate the enthusiasm and physicality he plays with. Really compact athlete, but, man, he can go. Movement skills, the speed, it really shows in his play.

1:07:28And, you know, I think you're absolutely right. A guy like that, probably going to make his way on special teams to start, but give him a chance. And I think he'll really push for defensive reps at some point during that rookie contract. So, yeah, that's a good shout for a day three linebacker to keep an eye on. And so many people get caught up in the idea of like, what's the role for him as a starter? What's he going to do for you? And hopefully that's true. But if all I'm drafting him to do is be a son of a bitch on special teams and maybe occasionally get out on defense like that's that's fun, too.

1:08:10And you can have a very good NFL career just hitting the hell out of people on special teams and see what happens on defense as you get more comfortable. So I'm fine with that. All right. That does it for us. That is the 2026 linebacker class. But Dane, you're you're on board with us full time now that the beast is out. Right. So we'll see you again later this week. Yeah. And then some you're going to get tired of me before these next two weeks are up. It's honestly, it's hard to believe. I've been so busy watching prospects, trying to catch up on everything, getting ready for the draft. I looked up and I was like, oh, my God, it's next week.

1:08:49Like we are already so close. Cannot wait to get you to Chicago. our live coverage is going to be awesome. We'll be with you on Thursday and Friday. We'll have a recap show on Saturday. Myself, Dane, Robert Mays, the great Bruce Feldman, Derek Klassen. It's going to be a loaded house. I am getting really excited for it until next time. Dane, I'll keep saying it. We appreciate all the hard work you've done, man. I'm glad you can rest a little easier with the beast out. And we will talk to you all soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button. so you never miss an episode.

1:09:25If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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