Jeffery Simmons' Bears dominate Seahawks 34-17

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1:40If you want to streamline your workflow and keep your prospecting and outreach in one place, it is definitely worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I am Dave Hellman, and what a fun Monday night recap we've got for y 'all. The Chicago Bears make a statement in Seattle. They beat the Seahawks 34-17, a result you know we had to get Robert Mays' thoughts on. We're also joined by our friend from the Athletic Live, Charles McDonald. So me, Robert, Charles, breaking down all things Bears and Seahawks. Let's get into it.

2:29I have no problem admitting this. I think anybody that's listened to me would would agree as well. I can be guilty of being a prisoner of the moment from time to time, guys. but I don't think I am in this case when I say simply this is among the most emphatic statements of the first half of the NFL season and I know the Seattle Seahawks had some had some head scratching losses this year I know that they were sitting at four and three coming into this game but the Mike McDonald Seattle Seahawks have taken on a mythical status of sorts after that run to the Super Bowl last year. And Lumen Field has long had that sort of reputation where when Seattle is rolling, that is among the hardest places to go into and get a result in the NFL.

3:19And Robert, for the Chicago Bears to put it on the Seattle Seahawks 3417 in primetime on the road, maybe it's not the best result of the 2026 season so far, but it is on a very short list of impressive

3:35Robert Mays: statements I think there's really no doubt the quality of the offense the defense looking like it did you feeling the impact that Simmons had from the first time he was out there from the from the first snap yeah you could feel how different the defense was when he was on the field and I was really curious what this version of the offense would look like against a defense like this New England is very good on defense New England has been really good on defense but they play a specific brand of defense it's a lot of cover zero it's a lot of man if you're having to play against a zone heavy team where they try to choke the life out of you where could you find the explosives this run game against seattle's defense i was really curious what they would look like against this team on the road in this environment and they answered the bell man i mean it's this is you're just checking off box after box now about what you want to see from this team and what your realistic expectations for the offense specifically are i it's hard to walk away from that thing not feeling really really good about what the chicago bears are you should feel good man before we get too deep into it i i neglected my duties as host a little bit we are joined tonight by our good buddy charles mcdonald of the athletic live charles you had a front row seat to watch maize observe a big chicago bears game how did that go my friend it was a lot of fun we were here with uh adam rank too uh who was chirping back at the chat all night when they were saying inflammatory things about the Bears, but it's fun to watch the shoulders relax after when you know the games, when the game's about to be won, because up until then, I wasn't sure how Maze was going to handle the rest of the game, but Jeffrey Simmons appears to cure all.

5:15I mean, he was awesome tonight, and I think that Robert wasn't the only one having fun. Dennis Allen looked like he was really enjoying themselves on the sideline, because now you can get to those exotic looks without having to play exotic football and stay in four-man rushes. So, man, that was a hell of a win for the Bears. And, man, if I was a Bears fan today, I would be saying, F them picks, bro, because who are we going to draft that can do something like that? I saw people on social media saying, like, just send Tennessee another pick. Just as a courtesy. You got one back? It's kind of crazy.

5:47I mean, dude, and some of these numbers aren't up to date. I had to start getting ready to get on with y 'all. But I believe so. Chicago sacked Sam Darnold three times. And obviously the batted ball interception that really made this a no doubter was I mean, was another sack like explosive disruptive play. They did all of that with a four man front maze. If I told you that, I mean, I guess if you, if you gave all that up for Jeffrey Simmons, you would say, I hope so. But after the last year and a half, really, since Ben Johnson got there, watching a Bears front wreak that much havoc with four was kind of breathtaking.

6:27And you add that together with what we already knew about their offense. You saw how active Montez sweat looked and how much easier things looked for him with Jeffrey Simmons drawing that attention it's it's easy to get grand designs about what this could all look like in the back half of the year Charles said it during the game when you can start knocking

6:46Robert Mays: your defensive lineman down the pecking order because you add a true ace you feel the kind of cascading effect that can come from something like that and now having Montez Sweat go from your most important and Booker's been a night yeah Booker is a good player Booker is a good situational player like Booker can give you some juice but for the last couple years Booker didn't play for half of last season montez sweat has been the only show in town when it comes to affecting the quarterback now the fact that he can be definitively the second most important player on your defensive front and you don't have to bring four you don't have to have seven up zero looks every time you want to affect the quarterback that's the best part of this is like how do you get disruption how do you make the quarterback feel uneasy and edgy in the pocket you can do it multiple different ways now because i do think that you're going to still see some of that stuff On third and seven, you're going to see seven guys up at the line of scrimmage, who's coming, who's not.

7:38Robert Mays: But you can drop out four credibly and still make the defense work. And so I just think that the whole promise and prospect of adding a guy like this was to change the entire complexion of what that side of the ball felt like. And listen, Seattle's offense has struggled this year. Seattle's running game has struggled this year. It's going to look different when you're playing against Jordan Love and Jared Goff and you're having to win those games in the NFC North. but we're one game in and the returns have been exactly what you would have hoped in terms of how the defense feels when that guy is out there.

8:09Yeah, it was just incredible. And now, like, it feels like they actually have, like, an ace on defense that can take them on a run through the playoffs. Like, granted, everybody stays healthy. And they did it to an offensive line. They just traded for Quentin Nelson and had another first-round pick in Gray Zabel on right guard. And, you know, he flipped over to right guard. It was a little bit of a tough transition at times for him. But it's not like this is a completely talentless offensive line. They just whoop their ass at certain parts of the game.

8:38Robert Mays: Charles Cross didn't play today. That's worth mentioning. But it's, you know, I think that you still got exactly what you wanted to see. And I'm going to be sitting up at night being in a cold sweat about the cornerback room until that thing gets fixed. Like, I do think that there's still stuff that needs to be addressed or stuff that needs to improve if this team is going to feel really dangerous all the way into January. But in terms of the front seven, in terms of the front four, yeah, it's one challenge, one challenge, one box checked. That's what I would say. When you say fix the cornerback room, is that just getting Malik Muhammad back healthy, which is crazy to say that like the fourth round rookie is your fix on the back end.

9:22But I don't know. I missed him out there tonight. I'll be honest. That seems kind of dire, but that's how I was feeling watching the performance we got tonight?

9:31Robert Mays: I'd call, you know? I'd call and just see who's out there and maybe if there's somebody that you think can make you better. But what would it take to get Tariq Wollin? What would it take to get somebody that another team doesn't necessarily want that could be a little bit cheap right now? Are you going to get a pick for Tyson Bajan at some point this week? There are so many moving parts that I think that now is the time, if not to be aggressive, then to be proactive based on the quality of the rest of the roster and what you think you can accomplish. I think that's a fine place to be if you're Ryan Pouls.

10:06Yeah, I kind of wanted to see, I guess, how it goes along. If they do have these issues at corner, how Dennis Allen continues to play that, you know, because they got aggressive when Jason had the touchdown, the slow go against Tyreek Stevenson, but they now have the players like you can kind of like back off and keep things in front of you with Jeffrey Simmons. I don't know if that's how they're going to continue to play things. I think Dennis has a style of defense that he likes to play, but he certainly has the bodies up front to kind of peel off of that. Like we did see a few times today where you get the same looks, right?

10:38You're mugging up the A-gaps, people are pressing, and then everyone drops out. And it's a four-man rush. Like I said before, you can look exotic while still playing like regular, sound, fundamental football. So that was just an incredible trade. Like just to see like the immediate impact of that, and we'll see what happens as the season goes on. But it's just fun. It's just fun to see, like, someone who played for a franchise that, let's be honest, like a lot of casual fans are not watching Titans games. And then for him to come in on the national stage and just ball out like that, that's kind of what this is all about to me.

11:08It was so cool because, like, I mean, we talked about it, Robert, when the trade happened. Even though Jeffrey Simmons has been playing a lot of ball for the Titans, it's not like he needed to ramp up. Right. But still, you talk about changing schemes. You talk about flying across the country on four days notice and getting ready for an all new defense on an all new roster. It would have been understandable if he was at least on a pitch count, even if he played. And that didn't feel like the case at all. And, yeah, I know it got negated by the Grady Jarrett face mask. But to completely detonate the Seahawks offense on, like, I don't know, his fourth snap as a bear.

11:47Like, if I told you that ahead of time, you're like, oh, that's a little too storybook, man. Like, that's probably not the way it's going to be. And it was like that all night long. It was so cool to see the big splashy addition look like it just right out the gate. Like, you don't get that very often in the NFL.

12:03Robert Mays: He put 48 snaps. Woo! It's incredible. It's incredible. Charles can attest to this. On the second drive, I was like, why isn't he out there? Where's my new toy? He's not hard to see. We did, in fact, get the neon orange sleeves, which I'm very, very happy about. All right, before we go any further, we're going to take a quick break. Football season has arrived, and with the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase, including at the stadium or at home watching on a brand new TV. Score big with unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase. Visit usbank.com slash smartlycard to learn more.

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14:29Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work, around the work, and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's G-O-O dot G-L-E slash workspace with Gemini.

15:09So let's not now. Okay. Now, considering all of that, Robert, if I told you at the start of the season that Caleb Williams would go into Seattle and do that, and we would talk for 11 minutes about something else bears related before we got to it. I mean, how, how, how would we be feeling about that? It's kind of hard to believe because he, he did it all over again. I mean, you said this week, or maybe it was on the, the trade episode we released that he feels like he's there, dude. And I, I kept hearing you in my ear during this game where I was like, yeah, he's here. And to just consistently get to those plays, confidently rip balls into that defense in that environment over and over again.

15:56I don't, I don't know what else you need to say about it, but I, I, this felt like Caleb. No, that's not true. I feel like Caleb Williams arrived a while ago, but to do it on Monday night against this team, I don't know. It felt pretty meaningful to me. I agree.

16:09Robert Mays: And that first drive, like that first drive just felt so different than what the offense felt like for a good majority of last year, where the running game was great. The running game was consistent and the, the passing game, it was chunks. It was explosives. That's how they lived. and so for them i was saying this to charles during the game having two different versions of the offense where you can have that drive where they're lifting out coverage with some verticals they're hitting all that stuff underneath in a hook area over and over and over again he's taking the easy completions they're consistently moving the ball down the field that is a version of the offense that you need to have right like you need to be able to attack teams and to live that way and then there are other drives that second and 12 where he gets away and fires that a ball to roam there are other drives where it's just like hey team go do some cool shit right and that having those two different versions of the offense that's the goal that's the idea that's how you get really scary really fast and I think that's what we saw tonight you saw that they can win in different ways even when the running game isn't necessarily humming and I don't want to I'm not I promise I'm not going to be like you are with this shit for the rest of the season I promise but I look back at like the four or five plays that he left on the field and it's like he can get even better there's still plays that are out there where if he if that ball to rome gets completed if he takes the high on the high low on that third down like and i think even after the the game he played against the patriots and i think this is the mindset organizationally this isn't just me i was talking to somebody on the staff after that game and i was like dude he is here and they were laughing and they're like dude there's still so much meat on the bone yeah there are like four or five plays in that game where if like if something goes differently those are sitting there for us.

17:50Robert Mays: And I love the fact that that's how they see it. Where even after this game, I promise you that's going to be the conversation. And Ben said it last week. He's like, nobody in the world looks at that guy with a more critical eye than he looks at himself. And so I promise you that's going to be the conversation coming out of this thing. And when you combine that mindset with the way that they are currently playing and the different versions of the offense that can exist, it's really fun, man. It is just watching them chunk off those explosives I was looking at the numbers after the third quarter because I was like how rare is this against Seattle like the amount of explosive plays they've had and I think they had six of them in the first three quarters and there had only been I think four other games in the last two years where teams had more than six explosive plays against the Seahawks over the first three quarters it was like a random Cardinals game from week 10 last year uh the Bucks game where everybody was banged up like you can count a ramp the Rams game late in the season like you can count them on one hand very few teams are able to do this to Seattle's defense in Seattle in the way that the Bears were where they're just ripping off 20 22 18 20 and it was happening really consistently yeah I think one of the cool things about Caleb is like it's like the process of the quarterback position changing over time where man that's still a good Seattle defense like the margins on some of those throws that were being made were razor thin but you have to have the arm talent and the athleticism and these capability to kind of make some of that stuff happen so you like you were saying before it's not just the stuff and structure the fact that you can roll out and say where's lovin down there somewhere and we're firing in like just the smallest little keyhole to throw it to i mean just an incredible performance and and the fact that there's still plays where you can say oh we could have done a little bit better there could have done a little better there against a defense like seattle that you know just beat the crap out of mahomes last week and Mahomes just threw for 300 yards against a pretty good Broncos defense so um man like I I found myself kind of like gasping when I watch him play because the ball comes out so fast but it's so accurate and it feels like he's getting better at layering the ball and throwing with touch over the middle too so really really incredible performance from him and also even when it gets a defense like Seattle's tonight I find myself like sometimes like caught by surprise at how fast this dude is like like legitimately a fast player like they're the one where he escaped like out of like Leonard Williams Brian Murphy's hands in the backfield and found someone down field really I mean just an incredible player and uh and it's just it's just fun to watch like this whole thing come together like if I'm if I was a Bears fan I'd probably be feeling like high right now like we need to go get a damn Super Bowl or at least make a run for one I'm not a bears fan and I just feel like a contact high from Chicago and being around bears fans.

20:39Like it's palpable. And yeah, Charles, to your point, I mean, on the, on the opening touchdown to burden, I thought Caleb had the corner and I was like, Caleb, you're fast. You're so fast. Just run, just run. And then, Oh, nevermind. You can just zip that thing in there and make that look effortless too. I thought he was, he was so good. And I think about that point over the summer a lot Robert where we talked about like actually the out of structure shit and the freelancing like you want to dial that back a little bit in in reality like I know that is everybody's mental image of Caleb Williams but you don't want to be doing that snap after snap and I think the balance that they have achieved so far this season feels almost perfect where if Caleb can do that for you two or three times in a game while operating this thing in rhythm as often and efficiently as he has been, my God, is it fun to watch.

21:33Robert Mays: One of the other things, we were talking about this during the game. I remember it came up in the conversation we had about Caleb on the Lingering Questions show. We have this image of him making all of these explosive plays out of structure in part because he did it a couple times in the playoffs and everybody was watching. And I think that people, there's this narrative or this, a narrative but also just a reputation that that's how he lives. That's how the offense was good last year. And in actuality, the offense was very bad in those situations last year. Like their numbers in scramble situations last year were really bad, in part because a lot of his, the off-target numbers and a lot of the balls that were uncatchable, and you look at some of the completion percentage stuff, a lot of that stuff was happening on those scramble out-of-structure plays.

22:18Robert Mays: And so this year, they've been hitting. I mean, think about, go back to week one. The throw he gets to Rome down the right sideline, that happens the first game of the season. the one he hits the glove on in the first drive in this game, those are starting to hit more often. And that, you don't want to take that away from him. And I think that's going to be, Mahomes is like this, where Mahomes will turn throws down because he thinks there's potentially a better play to be had. And you want to let great players paint outside the numbers like that. And you want to let them see like, all right, where are the limits here?

22:50Robert Mays: What can I get away with? Because that's what makes them truly dangerous and truly special. And so watching that stuff just hit a little bit more consistently, where last year, even if they were doing a lot of it, it was not a defined positive part of the offense. That's where this thing really starts to get rolling. That's where it has this effect where it all starts happening in combination, and the offense just can start to feel overwhelming, even against really good defenses like this. And the run game isn't even working yet. Yep. How many yards does Swift have? Like 60 on 25 carries? something it was not it was not a good average i'll tell you that i would like kyle monung guy back in the lineup please and yes i might have him on a fantasy team or two they started running the ball more efficiently in the second half they finished with a 45 and a half percent rushing success rate that's not terrible but for a good chunk of this game they were down sitting like sub 40 again and it's seattle's defense and the right it's the run game is one of those things like with this team i'm just not even slightly worried about it right like there are some teams where if you look at it, and if you look at the per, I know they've run for a gazillion yards this season, but if you look at the per snap numbers for the Bears so far this year, below average EPA per rush and success rate, and we don't think about those plays because they're overcoming it a lot, but that has been not an issue but a feature of the offense so far this year.

24:11Robert Mays: They have not run the ball as consistently and as efficiently as they did last year. But with this group, the offensive line is the same. The run game designer is the same. The backs have been banged up and Mononga is not even playing. Like, I do think that will find itself. And I think it started to in this game. And so if that starts coming along at the clip that you needed to combine with everything else, like, holy shit. And one thing I wanted to bring up, too, I'd have to go back and watch it. You can't really get a feel for this live. But we talked about losing Cole Komet and how they would have to adjust to that.

24:44It didn't feel like they had an overwhelming problem living without him. And I know I'm excited to go back and watch the Kalief Raymond explosive that set up that touchdown because Colston Loveland looked like he wiped out two or three people downfield with some really nice blocking. And I was like, OK, I think they're going to be all right. It sucks that they don't have Cole commit, but leave it to Ben Johnson to adjust.

25:07Robert Mays: Yeah, they were. So they were 50 percent 11 tonight, which essentially was right on right on average, man. they were 50 11 they were 30 12 they were 14 13 and that's that's really not far off from what they've done football for a majority of the season and so i mean that's the that's why you draft sam roush yeah right is like just to give yourself a little bit of a backstop even having three tight ends left them a little lighter there than teams that want to live in the way that they want to live but i think having roush is like a potential other option where you can still live in 12 personnel if you want to it was part of the thought process behind drafting him and so So it's – but in reality, like, the burden – Rome takes so much shit, dude.

25:50Robert Mays: It's crazy. And I get it, right? Like, he's had some really high-profile down – like, high-profile lowlights. But what he gives you within the offense as a, like, true vertical X receiver who can make contested catches, who blocks, his skill set is a necessary component to the offense feeling the way that it feels when it is working at its best. And you felt that tonight. Even, like, the slight difference between Rome and Xavier Thomas on the vertical where it's just a little bit high for Xavier Thomas. It's just like, that's where Rome and Dunze lives. Like, those are the throws to Rome and Dunze in this offense.

26:28Robert Mays: Is there anything you feel like the Bears need besides corner? I mean, offensively, I don't – you're set, right? Kyle Manung guy back in the lineup. Yeah, getting a non-guy back. We'll see what happens with left tackle. If they keep rolling with Benedict, what happens with Trapillo. Maybe if you can throw a really late pick or a pick swap to somebody for a tight end just to bolster your depth there a little bit to protect yourself, that's probably something I would think about. But defense, it's just, do you want to try to shot for a corner, and do you feel like one more edge is something that you could use?

27:06Robert Mays: And now Contavia Street, I'm assuming he's going to be done for a while based on injury. So is there maybe defensive line depth? But I don't think you need to take any big swings at this point. I think it's just is there something that's worth doing on the margins that you feel like is going to help protect yourself a little bit if you do really think that you're a team that can do this? Yeah. The last thought I just wanted to share before we flip to the Seattle side of this. And I mean, it goes along with what we've said, but I have so many notes about things that could have been a big deal in this game.

27:41Like the special team stuff at the beginning, the Seahawks not pinning the Bears on the goal line on the opening drive. Some of the penalty stuff like the OPI, maybe they could have flagged the Seattle for a roughing the passer in the second half. But the crazy thing to me is these environments and playing against these teams, it's like fighting against a tide almost. And you could feel it start to shift at times. Like Seahawks had the two minute drive before half where they went down and they hit the sluggo for the touchdown. Then you had the moment in the second half where Colston Loveland fumbles after the Zavian Thomas incompletion.

28:19And it's like, here it comes. Here it comes. And for all the shit we talk about, the Bears being this young team, it didn't seem like they gave a shit about any of that. And when you are able to beat back those swings and those moments of momentum change, I just I think it's so impressive. And it's something that I'm always looking for in environments like this. And you talk about checking boxes that that was huge to me because there were like four opportunities for Seattle to claw back into this game. And the Bears just put their foot back down every single time.

28:50Robert Mays: they've done that in pretty much all the games he's played and except the Minnesota game. Like even in Carolina, that game got closer than you wanted it to. And then in Atlanta, it's Atlanta. The game was mostly in hand throughout, but remember that the, to me, the, the play when Caleb got back where I was just like, Oh yeah. Was that third and 17 against the Falcons. Yep. Where exactly what you're talking about. 17. He rips that deep into Rome and it's like, and we were talking about this during the game. And again, I want to be like, why? Just do it. Just do it. I'm going to say something like earnest.

29:28Robert Mays: It's 9 p.m. So my body's on 11 p.m. I know that this is a weird situation. Okay. Like I'm willing to acknowledge that this is a weird situation. I host a national football podcast and I openly root for a team. And I'm trying to find the right middle ground between being somebody who does care. and you feel that and being an obnoxious asshole that people don't want to listen to as we do this show. And so I like, there's, they're a little, like you want like third rails and like, and wires you don't want to necessarily touch. It's just like, it's, it's on my mind. And the, but when you have one of the quarterbacks, when you are in third and 11, third and 12, and you look at the numbers in those situations for the Mahomes and the Allens and when that stuff happens, they are outliers.

30:18Robert Mays: Like your ability to overcome those situations and what those situations feel like in the moment when those guys feel like force of nature players is just different. And this offense and the explosive element this offense has in the passing game, they have shown an ability to do that this year. It's second and 12 and it's like, who gives a shit? Right. And like, that's not a place you want to live. Ultimately that stuff is going to come back to bite you but their ability to dig themselves out of those situations consistently so far this year you have noticed that and that is a product of a quarterback and explosive pass catchers that make those situations far less daunting than they might look like for other teams yeah I think the exciting part like to build off that is most weeks you're not going to be playing against Leonard Williams and Byron Murphy that are just nuking your run game so like the early down stuff should get better which will make the late down stuff easier which meets more points I will meet your moment of earnestness with my own Robert and I think the intentionality and the earnestness with which you approach this shines through in your coverage and people who listen to this show want you to enjoy a moment like this for that very reason because they know you're not an obnoxious asshole and there's like a catharsis that comes with seeing you just let go.

31:37But I understand your reluctance to do it. I want people to know that's happening.

31:43Robert Mays: I want people to know that's happening. And for me, it's not about – again, we're so early in this shit, man. This isn't like winning the Super Bowl. For me, it's not about gloating in these moments or talking about how great the team is. It's about what last season felt like. I live in the city. It's going to be about enjoying the ride. I'm going to call my grandma about this. That's the part of this that's great. That's the part of this that's going to be really fun. It's not about being able to puff your chest out about having a great team. It's about the community that happens in moments like this.

32:21Robert Mays: It's about my brother texting me about some of the stuff that he's doing. It changes your relationship to watching the games. It changes your relationship to the day of the game, to what it feels like in the hours before your team plays. Like this is what you're after. This is why you suffer through the Craig Krenzel years. Like this is what it's about. It's not about like the end result. It's about everything that comes along with having a team that is fun as like that, that, that is what this is about. And that is the part of it that I am excited about. For those, for all of those very esoteric and hard to articulate reasons, but also from a pure football standpoint, where you go and do this to one of the Titans of the league, it feels like a very meaningful result for the Chicago Bears.

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36:15Real quickly, because we have gone fairly long already, but let's talk about the Seahawks side of this. I maintain just as a team and look, I know Sam Darnold has had a forgettable year to this point. The offensive line, even with Quentin Nelson, is it's not the unit that I thought it would be this year. I want to say I'm still not overly worried about Seattle in a vacuum in terms of like who they are as a team. But all of a sudden I look at the standings.

36:46Robert Mays: Yeah, that's that gets real. That gets real in a hurry. If you don't want to be in panic mode about the quality of the team. I'm not in panic mode about the team, but there are three games behind the Niners. They've already lost a head up matchup against the Niners, and they still have both games against the Rams. Another game against San Francisco. They're up against it, and it's not locked in, but it's starting to feel pretty plausible or even likely that this is a wild card team, which that's not necessarily surprising because this is such a loaded division. but it's disappointing when you're the reigning Super Bowl champs bringing back as much as the Seahawks did.

37:25Yeah.

37:26Robert Mays: They've lost four games, right? So they lost to this. They lost to the best team in football today. They lost to the Broncos. All that earnest shit and then just throw that in there. They lost to the wagon that is the Chicago Bears. They lost to the Broncos in a maddening, maddening football game. They lost a toss-up game to probably the real best team in football in the San Francisco 49ers, a game that could easily go to could have gone either way. And they lost a weird-ass game to the Commanders. Yeah, I couldn't remember what that fourth team was. They got a – like, the Broncos game sucks, but the Commanders game is the one that's going to just keep you up at night in December when you're looking at the playoff projections.

38:09Just like, how the hell did that happen?

38:11Robert Mays: And I say that not trying to absolve or hand wave away some of the issues that they've had, because they absolutely have had issues. And when you're a dominant team, like on both sides, they were in a dominant offense last year, but you get what I'm saying. This was a team that was top five and dropped back success rate last year. They were incredibly explosive throwing the football compared with the best defense in the league. And they had the best special teams in the NFL. They were like a dominant Super Bowl champion last year. When you are that sort of team, you don't lose toss-up games to all of these teams because you're not playing toss-up games.

38:44Robert Mays: And so it's absolutely worth sitting with the fact that they don't feel like that sort of dominant force anymore. But they're absolutely much, much better than a 4-4 football team right now. Like, both of those two things can be true at the same time. Yeah, definitely. I think even when you look at tonight's loss, because in our chat, it's fun to watch where the takes start to percolate in real time. There are people who are down on Seattle's defense. Man, they got screwed on some bad turnover luck there at the end, where you have really short fields they were running on. And we still saw incredible moments from the interior defensive line.

39:23Devon Witherspoon had some nice plays. But 4-4 is 4-4 at the end of the day. I think that the commander's loss is the one you're going to be looking back on and just say, man, like what happened there? Because even when you look at that game, I remember the defense still had a pretty good success rate. But like what happened on the successful plays for Washington was kind of a disaster for them at the end of the day. But like if I were to tell you that this team gets their shit together and they wind up like seven and four over the next three games, like how surprising would that be?

39:53Robert Mays: So right now they have the Cardinals next week and then they have the Raiders after that. And so you take care of business against those two teams, hopefully. You're sitting there at 6-4, and then you have your bye. And so I think that is, to me, what's going to be the moment in the season. What does the offense look like coming out of the bye? All of that kind of stuff. Because, obviously, the offense is not what it was last year when it was really humming. I think their ability last year, even with an imperfect offense and with a running game that was really below average for most of the season.

40:26Robert Mays: We were talking about this during the game. They did such a great job last year of consistently dictating how that side of the ball was going to go to opposing teams. All right, we're going to be a 12 and 13 team. We're going to be a 21 personnel team. We're going to be heavy. We're going to run a lot. We're going to run a lot. We're going to use a ton of play action. And we're going to incept you into thinking you have to defend us a certain way because of that. And it's going to allow us to be explosive down the field. Teams just haven't bought into that this year. Teams have not given them those opportunities because they have not been able to hurt them while running the football.

41:04Robert Mays: And so now you get both backs back. Hopefully your offensive line gels. You have two new starters in there now, three new starters with a backup left tackle. So let's see how the next two weeks go. Let's take the bye, and then let's see what this team looks like down the stretch. Because the offense absolutely, point blank, no questions asked, needs to be better than it has been. but I'm not writing off the chance that they will be. I absolutely think that that is a possibility, and maybe it doesn't happen. Maybe it's a new coordinator, and you just never find yourself on that side of the ball over the course of the season.

41:38Robert Mays: That would just be a normal life cycle of an NFL team. It wouldn't just be – we see this shit all the time where you want to be like, oh, it's the same system, and it's the same language, and the quarterback's comfortable with it, and the offensive line's coming back, and we have all this continuity, and it's A.J. Barner in year two and Rashid Shahid's going to be here the entire season. It's like it's going to be wheels up like it's the line goes up forever and nothing's going to change. We're going to be great again. It's like it just doesn't always happen that way. Like the idea that you go from a dominant Super Bowl champion to a 11 and 6 wildcard team and you just feel a little bit diminished again is just like the lifespan of a normal NFL team.

42:19It is. But when you have a defense like this, I understand if it's tough to stomach because this is I mean, and the Bears made them look pedestrian. But I'm here to say I know how hard that is to do. Like, I'm very confident that that's more about the Bears being on their shit than the Seahawks dropping off. And so, I mean, this defense, I think, has the juice to give you a shot. So I understand if you're frustrated as a Seahawks fan that even if this is what life is like for most defending champions, I mean, even like even if you were five and three and you would just beat in Washington, this would feel so much better.

43:00And it would sure shit feel better if you find a way to win that ridiculous Denver game. So I understand it. Yeah, I think if I were a Seahawks fan and kind of looking at this with rosy-colored glasses, however best you can, think about what it took for them to score 34 points. You had short fields towards the end of the game with the turnover. You shut down the run. It took Caleb Williams making some miraculous plays in razor-thin margins for explosives. And then, look, the Khalil Raymond play, that was rough. I'm going to give him that one. That was rough. but man like you still need like Caleb Williams one of the most athletic tight ends in the league one of the best offensive minds and you still shut down the run man sometimes you just gotta tip your hat and uh I don't think it's quite as gloomy maybe as people are are suggesting but to your point though like that's how good the Bears players are right now like it's crazy to think that the Bears have a quarterback that can make Mike McDowell's defense like throw fits all game You know, like I, I, I, I, I never thought I would say this or get to a point, but like I can't wait for like Bears games every weekend just to see like what six shit Caleb and Ben end up doing together.

44:08We saw a wildcat flea flicker explosive play today. Yeah. I didn't even mention that. It's like so far down the list of the most important things that happened. It doesn't even register because you're just like, oh, that's the crazy shit Ben drew up this week. I just I did want to I would include this last point and it's easy to pile on Sam Darnold. Like I said, he hasn't been good. It was a that was a weak call that bailed him out of an end zone interception, which, you know, the OPI on JSN was stupid as well. So I think it all comes out. Yeah, it definitely came out in the wash. Both of those were really, really weak.

44:42But the thing that the thing that I'm stuck with here, Robert, is again, Darnold deserves some criticism for his role in this. But I also think and it's the first week with Quentin Nelson. It's the first week with the two backs back in the lineup. So hopefully this gets better. But I think you're also looking at you mentioned Charles Cross out for this game. Graze Abel and Abe Lucas are not as good as they were last year. Like and maybe that is injury related. Maybe that is the lineup getting shuffled. I don't know. But it's been several weeks now where you've noticed that where like, you know, the difference between frustrating and good can be as simple as like, well, we had a Pro Bowl rookie in the lineup last year and he's struggling this year.

45:25Abe Lucas looked like a revelation at right tackle last year, and it hasn't been as pretty this year. And so maybe you get to the buy and get all that stabilized and it looks a hell of a lot better. But the whole ecosystem of this offense outside of JSN just being incredible, it all feels very shaky. And I don't know how much consistently better this is going to get until something flips there.

45:49Robert Mays: Here's what I'll say, though. I think when we have these conversations about some teams, we always go back to this. Where are the reinforcements coming from? They are coming. There are reasons to believe that this will feel different. We have one game of Graze Abel at right guard. Abe Lucas has played next to a backup right guard for a huge chunk of the season. Anthony Bradford just got back last week. Again, you have two new guards in two new spots this week with a backup left tackle. Over the course of the year, putting Graze Abel next to Abe Lucas, putting Quentin Nelson back next to Charles Cross and getting the backs back involved in this thing, it may not all fall into place, but let's just wait and see.

46:29Robert Mays: Let's just wait and see what this group looks like when all of those guys are back in the lineup. You're saying Gray Zabel having to deal with Jeff Simmons in his first game at right guard might not be a fair litmus test of what the ceiling is for the Seahawks? And it's not like Jeff Simmons made four or five ridiculous splash plays. It's not like he had 10 pressures in this game. He was very impactful, but it's not like he was embarrassing Graves Abel for four quarters. I do think Zabel needs to play better in general, though. Not his best year. Even when he was a left guard, been a bit of a disappointment.

47:00I mean, and that's, we say that every offseason where, like, you cannot always count on linear progression. It's not how it works. It's not how it works. Getting Quinn Nelson back will stabilize things. You know, and, yeah. It goes back to my point that, I think the Seahawks are probably going to be fine. I know I've said that every other week all season long, and they're four and four. And it might be like, they're probably not going to have home field advantage through the playoffs this year. And that might be disappointing, but I think they're a good team. And I think they're going to be favored in most of the games they play the rest of the way.

47:36And the Rams games, the first, they don't play the Rams for the first time until Christmas. So they got a long time to sort this shit out before the heavy-hitting NFC West game starts. So I think it's going to be okay. That is some diabolical schedule-making based on how the standards are playing out right now.

47:53Robert Mays: I know. This is one stat, and it's not the end-all be-all, but just for context, okay? Coming into this game, the Seattle Seahawks were sixth in overall team DVOA. Yeah. I think it's okay. I think it's okay. And they were 21st on offense, and they finished 10th in offensive DVOA last year. There is a gap between those two things. But if they get to a place where by the end of the season, they're dead on average offensively combined with this defense. That's not some far off pie in the sky pipe dream. Like that feels like a very achievable thing and a very achievable level for this group to reach by the end of the year.

48:31Robert Mays: It is possible that the quarterback with a new coordinator, with a different offensive infrastructure, without some of the levers that they were able to pull last year, is just never finds his level and never finds – the heartbeat never slows this year. That's possible, right? Like with this guy specifically, I don't think it's crazy to think that that's just how the year goes. But we've seen him be up and down. Like he is not somebody where it's just steady Eddie all the time. We have seen vacillations in his play. And if you hit one of the peaks and you hit one of the upswings as they get into the playoffs, combined with what the defense is, I need to see way worse stretches of play from the defending champs before I'm starting to lose my mind here.

49:19Robert Mays: I really do. Last week, they forced Patrick Mahomes to play one of the worst games of his career. They beat the Seahawks last week. They beat the Chiefs last week. And you know what Mahomes just did yesterday? He threw for 300 yards against a really good Broncos defense. So yes, it's the ebbs and flows of the NFL. Yes, it's so true. It's a week to week league, fellas. I agree. I think the Seahawks are going to be fine. Not as fine as the Chicago Bears, who have a dude at quarterback and appear to be very, very for real in the league hierarchy. Really fun Monday night. Love chatting with y 'all.

49:56Anything else you want to throw in before we get out of here?

49:58Robert Mays: No, I appreciate you taking the reins here. and I appreciate the Athletic Live folks for having me. It was a really fun time. Definitely. I just want to say a shout-out to our team in the back. They did a great job tonight helping us out all night long. So thank you, Mason. Thank you, Mache, Kevin, whole gang. I think that they should feel honored that we got about three hours and eight minutes into the stream before I dropped my first F-bomb. Pretty good. So I feel like I really did. There was a real level of self-control tonight that I'm honestly proud of myself. We're going to scrub through and make a super cut of all of your best reactions from the Katie.

50:33Don't do that. Katie, Katie, you absolutely do that. All right. Really fun Monday night. Appreciate y 'all. Appreciate everybody for tuning in. We'll be back with all of our usual content as the week goes along until then. We appreciate it. Talk to you next time.

50:47Robert Mays: Later, bud. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button. So you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like comment and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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