Mailbag Monday: How many true #1 pass rushers are there in the NFL?

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2:05Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. It's another Mailbag Monday here on The Athletic Football Show. Another really good crop of questions. We chatted about the Ravens' draft reputation, chatted about when prospects can have very little experience and you could feel okay about it. We talked about how many true number one edge rushers there actually are in the NFL and a whole host of other things based on the excellent set of questions that you guys sent in. So let's get to all of that with me, Derek Lassen, Dave Hellman, and our guy Michael Bell are reading the questions right now.

2:47Robert Mays: it's another mailbag monday here on the athletic football show another bunch of very good questions excited to dig into these beller let's waste no time let's get to it you know we said thaddeus was going to push us into a full episode and we just decided you know what this is just an awesome question. Let's get to it. So Thaddeus, you're back and you've got our first question on this mailbag. So let's get to it. We're going on two years now that I just can't believe what I'm hearing on the Ravens. Mays mentioned putting his thoughts together for this on a future pod, but here's what I don't get.

3:19Eric Acosta started in 2019. So after Lamar, what are his good moves or draft wins? What would you think about his moves in totality if it said Jags next to his name instead of Ravens? What has he done to build around Lamar, who is very clearly the centerpiece of the franchise and offense and if your main hits are on defense and they lead to a bad defense are they actually hits very uh uh thoughtful question there from thaddeus so robert why don't you get us started here a couple different thoughts here we're going to do this as a full show we

3:47Robert Mays: decided not to do it for a couple different reasons the ravens are the reason we wanted to do it as a full show and so we felt this was just a little bit easier uh and cleaner to answer it in this format my answer is this i think that if you look at the ravens draft history since 2019 there are some drafts that are frustrating. There are some drafts that are disappointing, right? Like the 2020 draft with Patrick Queen and J.K. Dobbins, we point to that, and it's like, well, neither of those guys are currently contributors for the Ravens. But if you look at the numbers, purely the numbers since 2019, not only are the Ravens not a bad drafting team, they are number one in approximate value per draft pick since 2019.

4:26Robert Mays: Number one. And so I know that there haven't been as many, like fourth, fifth round hits for the Ravens that have turned into like really good pass rushers as in years past. But if you look at these drafts from 2019, starting in 2019, okay, Marquise Brown didn't end up becoming a long-term piece of the Ravens. They traded him for real draft capital on draft day to the Cardinals. That is a hit. Ben Powers did not get a second contract with the Ravens. He got paid a ton of money by another team. That is a good draft pick in the fourth round. In 2020, Patrick Queen was still a guy who got a second contract from another team.

5:00Robert Mays: J.K. Dobbins had huge injury issues. I also think this conversation changes so much if Matabike plays. Yes. We are forgetting Matabike as part of this overall thing. Like, finding a player like Matabike in the third round, if he would have stayed healthy, I think changes this discussion in a lot of ways. Even the 2021 draft, like, Bateman and Odafe Owe, neither of them became stars for the Ravens, but they're both contributing pieces. Brandon Stevens was the third-round pick in that draft, who was a player that played a decent amount of snaps to the Ravens. He was a contributor for the Ravens.

5:33Robert Mays: He got another contract. And then the other part of this, beyond just the quality of drafts over that time and the fact that they're consistently finding, either for them or other people, two to three contributors in those drafts, the 2022 draft, finding two elite players in the first round of the draft, that just doesn't really happen. In that same draft, they got Travis Jones in the third round and Isaiah Likely in the fourth round. like this is still a team that is drafting very well and I think to the last point this idea of if they're your main hits are on defense they lead to a bad defense that's why Jesse Minter is the head coach of the Ravens right now that's why he's the head coach of the Ravens and also if

6:11Derrik Klassen: we're doing this like back since 2019 they've mostly had good defenses like through that stretch last year was a little bit of an exception but like they have mostly had good hits and I think what I would say about the defense thing specifically is like the the hits are the hits those guys are good the trade for Roquan Smith I think Nate Wiggins is a good player Malachi Starks was really good last year Matabike Travis Jones like those guys are all hits the problem is is like it's more of a stars and scrubs like defensive roster than it is used to being because they've missed on all the pass rushers that they've swung at mostly you know OA was okay but then obviously they end up not getting the most out of him with or end up trading him but almost all the other guys they've tried to draft at that position have not been good linebacker two has been a problem recently since Patrick Queen has been gone and so it's more like the let's say the worst four starters on the Ravens defense are just worse now than they were because I do think that in previous draft classes like they were better at finding fourth and fifth round defensive linemen more consistently that could or they had a linebacker in the hopper that was ready to come up and play two starting years for them like I think that element is gone but like they still find really good players consistently just the bottom end of the roster has been a little bit worse but that just makes it like a normal team right exactly yes okay I'm glad you said that though Robert because I do think I think that's the crux of this and I I fall more with Thaddeus than I do with y 'all I think I think the truth is probably somewhere in between and I think the problem is the Ravens are perfectly fine they've drafted perfectly fine they've found some good players they've had some some hits and some misses they've had some disappointing drafts I think the issue arises where people talk about them like draft gods and like every single year they wait for the Alabama guy to fall to them in the mid 40s or like they they wait for the guy, you know, the the edge rusher with obvious character concerns falls to them at 45.

8:03Derrik Klassen: And you're like, there there go the Ravens doing this crazy Ravens thing. Or like they did it with Kyle Hamilton. That's obviously a really good example. but they get a lot of credit for that. And the results don't back it up as much as the word of mouth reputation suggests. That would be my point. And one thing I would like to say is I think their strategy, it's in direct conflict with each other, because one thing that makes the Ravens such a enticing, fun drafting team, they do the comp pick game better than anybody in the NFL. They've had 20 since 2019. That's really cool. and you wind up with extra thirds, extra fours.

8:42Derrik Klassen: They have, I think they have two extra fifths this year and that's very fun, but how do you get comp picks? You let your good players leave. And to your point, Robert, that's, so there's so many success stories out of Baltimore. Tyler Linderbaum, Patrick Queen, J.K. Dobbins, Adafi Owe, Isaiah Likely, Charlie Kohler. These are good players who, when you look through the Ravens draft history, history, you say, oh, but he's not helping the Ravens anymore. And so those two, those two things are in direct conflict with each other, where to play the comp pick game as well as they want to, they have to let talented players walk out the door.

9:20Derrik Klassen: So I think their own strategy is going to keep their draft history from looking as good as you want it to.

9:26Robert Mays: And I think they've done a poor job relatively compared to previous eras of this team of replacing those guys in the same way. Right. And I think that's been the problem is that like, you know, Daniel Falalele wasn't quite as good as Ben Powers was as a fourth round pick that is sliding in as an interior offensive lineman replacement. I think they've been worse at filling in the depth pieces in that way. But I'll say this. If the Ravens aren't a good drafting team, who is? even since 2019. Like every team has a ton of misses. And I think we still talk about them as good drafting teams. Like you look at a team like the Lions, right?

10:02Robert Mays: Like Josh Pascal was the 46th pick in the 2022 draft. And even like the 2024 draft where Terry Arnold was a first round pick and then Ennis Rakestraw, Giovanni Manu in the fourth round, there's a chance that the 2024 draft is just a no-go for the Lions. And a lot of these other teams, like the Lions are the team I think a lot of people would point to, the Ravens didn't have the benefit of picking seventh and second in any drafts over the last 10 years. They're picking in the 20s every single year or in the teens at worst. And so when you consider where they're drafting, the expected returns on the players, they're still in the conversation as one of the best drafting teams in the NFL, even if some of the hallmarks of who the Ravens have been over the last 10 years, 15 years, when it comes to those fourth and fifth round guys have not been quite as strong in the last five as they had been previously.

10:54Derrik Klassen: I think that's right. And I just, I don't think there's really a problem here as long as we are acknowledging that they're just as flawed as everybody else. And I think I'm guessing and just trying to keep tabs on what fans say and popular opinion. I think the frustration comes where sometimes you talk about the Ravens like they do no wrong and they clearly do wrong. And one other point that I would just want to bring up, I was thinking, I'd be curious for y 'all's list of like the best four or five Ravens right now, like the best Baltimore Ravens players. Like I just, my list is Lamar, Kyle Hamilton, Derek Henry and Roquan Smith.

11:37Yes.

11:38Derrik Klassen: Right. Matt Abike, if he's healthy, like it is certainly up there, but I'll give you Matt Abike complicated. Yeah. If Matt Abike is healthy, that's two out of five that Eric DaCosta drafted himself. And I mean, like they acquired Roquan Smith. You get credit for that. That's fine. But you pay a premium to do that though, right?

11:54Robert Mays: Like by giving him the pick and the contract, you're paying the sticker price for him, right? Like that's, it's a shrewd move in the sense that you got a good player, but you got no value out of that player when it comes to the market. It's not the same as drafting a guy. You can't just say we use that second round pick on Roquan Smith. You did not.

12:10Derrik Klassen: the vast the vast majority of the Ravens best players and I think that's a good point Derek I really like Nate Wiggins Malachi Starks looks good after one year so maybe we'll change our tunes but right now I think the majority of the Ravens best players are guys that Eric DaCosta did not draft himself and bring into the organization himself and I think that's worth

12:32Robert Mays: pointing out yeah they've definitely taken a step back there's no denying that and that's why you have to do something like the Trey Hendrickson draft signing in ways that you wouldn't before or like the Max Crosby trade. But I still think when you stack it up to the rest of the league, they are still a very good above average drafting team. And it's important also to keep that in the back of your mind as we have this discussion. All right, what's the next one? Alex Mandrick has our next question. Alex asks, I really enjoyed, I guess he says to start this, I really enjoyed the discussion you had recently about the experience of quarterbacks in college and the desire to use a first round draft pick on a quarterback who wasn't the clear cut starter by year two at their school.

13:09I recently read the Athletics 2026 draft fits we love and Nick Baumgardner wrote about Caden McDonald, defensive tackle from Ohio State. In his writing, he mentioned that McDonald, who is consistently mocked as a first round pick, was a one season starter and hasn't put it all together yet. Sounds to me a little bit like Ty Simpson. So which positions would you be most okay with a first round pick having limited experience in college? And which positions do you think experience and playing time is vital for Derek you take this one first

13:37Derrik Klassen: I think this is really good and I think to me it mostly comes down to like if we're talking about pure starting experience I think the rotation positions I don't care if you were only a one year starter defensive line defensive end wide receiver running back because you're gonna get reps like you might not be the starter but you're getting serious reps you're getting serious even practice reps if you're one of those guys who's going to be some sort of contributor on game day And like McDonald was not a starter in 2024. He played a decent amount for Ohio State in 2024. He was just starting behind.

14:08Derrik Klassen: And I think this is another important part of the McDonald thing versus Simpson. He was starting behind Tylek Williams, also a first round pick, who was like a really, really good who has been who was pretty solid as a NFL rookie. And so I think there's that element of it. And then I think on the flip side, positions where I would be a little bit more dubious and probably do want to see you play more than one year of starting offensive line, because again, that's not really a rotation position. Like you're either the starter or you're not. And then even though linebacker and safety can be positions where you could get on the field, you could rotate in a little bit, maybe guys are just taking reps off, whatever it's gonna be.

14:45Derrik Klassen: Those are, because they're such mental positions, I would like you to get a little bit more reps and have more starting experience.

14:52Robert Mays: It's funny that I took this very similarly with the rotation players, but almost for a different reason. I just think that if you have a guy who's inexperienced as a defensive lineman, you can work him in and get him experience in a way where you're, it's the right blend of development and instant contribution, right? Like you're not going to have an offensive tackle. That's a one-year starter in college and then plays 12 snaps a game for you in the NFL. If you draft him in the first round, that that's just not going to happen. And so I think defensive line is a good one for that reason. The only thing I'd push back on when it comes to receivers is that we have so much statistical history about breakout age among receivers and how much it matters.

15:33Robert Mays: Where if you are, if it takes you until you're age 22 season to have a productive year in college, that is often a red flag for what you're going to be in the NFL. And so I think that's the one thing I would throw out where like, yes, it is a rotational position, but we do want to see for the most part, based on history, early contributions from guys at those positions specifically.

15:54Derrik Klassen: Yeah, my answer comes down pretty exclusively on age. And going back to the Ty Simpson question, the reason Ty only having one year as a starter and not winning that quarterback battle earlier, the reason it doesn't bother me as much is because in my mind, we're talking about him as a second round pick. That would give me a lot of hesitation as a first round pick. And I think it's the same thing across the board. If you've started one year at tackle, offensive tackle in college, but you're 21 years old, that bothers me a hell of a lot less than if you're 24 and you've been at your program for three to five years and you started one season for some reason.

16:33Derrik Klassen: And I think it's a good point. I agree with Derek. Like the more cerebral the position, the more I'm curious about this, like linebacker comes to mind because it's like, are you the run and hit guy who is only worried about athleticism and just like see ball, get ball? Do you have any experience like getting the play call and getting things right and understanding what you're looking at? And if that's my idea for what you're going to be, are you going to be completely flummoxed by it? Like, do I have to teach you scheme and how to play the position and stuff like that? So the more mental responsibility of the position, the more I'm probably looking at stuff like that.

17:12Robert Mays: The downside matters to me, too. Right. Like if you have a safety that has never played and he's going to have to be a day one starter for you because you drafted him in the first round. The downside of that guy learning on the job is extremely real. The downside of a defensive lineman learning on the job in a similar way just doesn't really exist. Like he doesn't produce for you, but like, all right, he didn't produce for you on 12 plays. is if you have a safety that you're trying to ease in, that's like a 21-year-old freak but is inexperienced, you can lose games. Like, that's a real thing that can happen because he had to learn on the job.

17:44Derrik Klassen: Yeah, he will give up touchdowns for you. And, like, that's going to ruin your game in a way that, like, you know, the defensive end, it might hurt you, but it's not going to kill you. The only thing I would say about the receivers, the breakout age thing is a good point, which I think is why the one year of starting, it's different when we're talking about, like, Xavier Leggett, right? Who was, like, 23 years old. It takes him until year five to really break out versus like Jamison Williams, who's trapped behind a bunch of other first round picks at Ohio State, transfers to Alabama, is a one year starter at 21 years old.

18:12Derrik Klassen: Really, really good. And so that's here in a big way. Totally. Totally.

18:16Robert Mays: I thought what's the next one? John Dykes asked the next question. John says, is it a pure coincidence that we have potentially two first round edge prospects that have historically short arms, including one potentially going top five? If it's not a coincidence, is the position changing at the college level to allow shorter arm players to succeed? And will this trend eventually translate to the NFL? Dave, you're up first.

18:39Derrik Klassen: I love the question, John, and I love that you're thinking ahead and trying to spin this forward and you might be on to something. I'm more inclined to say I'd like to see more evidence that this is a trend before I take it as one. and just for full the entirety of the context i went through now we have the beast which makes our lives so much easier dane has 46 edges with some sort of grade ranging from one to priority free agent all the way on down to like after the seventh round 44 of them have longer arms than Bain and Cassius Howell. And then of the guys that have a day one or day two grade, there's 16.

19:26Derrik Klassen: So if you take out Bain and Howell, 14 or excuse me, 13 of those 14 guys have a full inch and a half of arm length on Reuben Bain and Cassius Howell. The one exception is R. Mason Thomas, who's at 31 and three quarters. So still longer, but not quite as much longer. And so I look at it and just think the overwhelming majority of these guys meet the thresholds you want them to. And it's tricky with college prospects like measurements for measurements for seniors who elect to measure like rising seniors. So like this year's juniors who are staying in school who elect to measure can measure over the summer and the scouting services will have some of that information.

20:13Derrik Klassen: But for the vast majority of these guys, it doesn't become public knowledge for us until like the senior bowl and the combine. So it's possible that there's going to be some more guys like this coming down the line. But I need to see it before I'm worrying about it becoming a trend.

20:30Robert Mays: I also think it's worth mentioning that we've acknowledged that the combine measurements have been weird over the last two years. Like they've been shorter than they have been in previous seasons. And that started in 2025. If you look at the 2024 combine, there were no players with shorter than 32-inch arms. There was one player who was below 32.5 inches. This year, there are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 players below 32.5 inches. I think it's how they're measuring it is also playing into this. I think it's more coincidental and the fact that the last two years something has been going on with the arm lengths that we probably need to inspect yeah it kind of is a little bit of

21:18Derrik Klassen: everything there is the whatever the was going on with the measurements everybody is a little bit shorter than they used to be which I think is part of it I do think though I like I don't have like exact numbers for this but I was kind of toying around on mock draftable which is a really

21:31Robert Mays: good resource for stuff like this that's right it's got that right and if you look at like 1999

21:35Derrik Klassen: to like 2010, there really are not that many edge rushers with arms under like 32 and a half. Whereas if you go from like 2011 through 2025, whatever it's going to be, there are more guys who are 32 and a half and under. But I just I don't think that that is so much like something about the game is changing that allows those guys to play in a different way. I just think kind of across the sport, and this extends beyond edge rushers, there is a little more like different body types can play a little bit more at every position in a way that maybe just was not as true about the sport 25 years ago.

22:12Robert Mays: I think that's a really, really good point. If you look at it, there were only, I'm going back to, I'm at 2010 right now. Okay. In 2010, there was only one defensive end at the entire combine who was shorter than six, three. The ways that we're just talking about edge rushers now there's so many more players who are these tweeners that are going to be guys that measure a little bit less arm lengthwise because they're just shorter

22:35Derrik Klassen: players that's such a good point because even you know my the first time i covered a draft cycle was 2013 i think and like even back then you're writing off guys where it's like ah he's only six two and a half like what you know what what's what's he going to do for you down on the edge and And I mean, certainly over the last decade or so, I just I don't think that's nearly as much of a conversation as it used to be.

22:59Robert Mays: All right, let's go to our first quick break and then come back and chat through a few more of your guys's questions.

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26:08Robert Mays: All right, brother, what's the next one? Okay, some metal dude has a fun proposition for us. He says, you are hired to be the head of all things NFL jerseys for every team, and as such, you are given three assignments. Give one team's kit complete protection. Love that we're taking the soccer style of this. You give one team's kit complete protection. In other words, they have to keep it for all time. Number two, immediately banish one team's kit for it to never return. Number three, bring back one team's kit from the past for them to use instead. And he specifies like, not like the Eagles, Kelly green as like a throwback.

26:43We wear it one week, but something that they wear as their regular kit Jersey, all that good stuff. Let's snake draft this. Dave, you take this one first again. I love this question so much.

26:53Derrik Klassen: I campaigned to put this in the show. Cause I love it so much. So you want me to do all three of mine first or why not? Okay. I think the very best uniform in the NFL, and it's a shame that it hasn't been associated with more good teams over the last quarter century. You're not beating the Raiders. You're not beating the classic black and silver with that logo. Just, ah, the autumn wind is a pirate. It's like one, and you're going to see a theme here. I am a, I'm a uniform traditionalist. Like I enjoy the Penn States and Alabamas of the world. I don't need a whole lot of rigmarole. So I absolutely adore the Raiders uniform.

27:33Derrik Klassen: I would never touch it. Number two. This is a pet cause of mine that I've always wanted to say into a microphone, and now I get my chance. I can't think of a worse uniform to be associated with the greatest run in the history of the sport than the Patriots uniform. It is insulting to me that a dynasty that spanned two decades has that ridiculous Flying Elvis logo with those huge, ugly shoulder stripes and the red face masks. I just, I hate everything about the Patriots uniform. And it upsets me that like such great teams were accomplishing so much great stuff in such a ridiculous look. I would make them go back to their throwbacks immediately.

28:21Derrik Klassen: because their throwbacks are fantastic. Their throwbacks are incredible. It pains me that we've seen so much dominance in such a bad uniform. And then finally, take your pick. Either the Dolphins or the Broncos, both. Their throwbacks are so much better than what they wear these days. There are 10 candidates for this. Yeah, for sure. But those are the two that come to mind. All the Dolphins need to do is go back to the throwback. they wear like once or twice a year and they'll have one of the best uniforms in the sport and i would say not that denver's current logo with the horse head like it's not bad but i just i like the

29:01Robert Mays: throwback that much better the ones that are the easiest like nudge back to being correct are the dolphins and the falcons those are the ones where just like you just nudge it right back and it's just not hard to get where you need to go that was also on my short list i'll i'll go in reverse

29:17Derrik Klassen: order here the for my throwbacks i had basically the same answers as dave like the old to me specific i think kit top to bottom like helmet all the way down to socks the broncos one is probably my favorite but i love the old dolphins logo it just was it had like a perfect amount of whimsy to it that it just it was he's wearing a football helmet dolphins don't wear football helmets how ridiculous is that it's so they're they're my favorite and then i think their color scheme is just like that blue and orange is fantastic. So I would say that one kid that's got to go, like everything about the Titans for like the majority of the time that they have existed, I do not love, especially the new ones they're rolling out now.

29:55Derrik Klassen: You don't like the new ones. No, I think they're offensive.

29:58Robert Mays: Okay. My answer was the current Titans uniforms, not because I don't like them. They're better than the old Titans uniforms. They should not be allowed to use that color scheme. You made your choices. You're opening a can of worms here.

30:12Derrik Klassen: I mean, I don't think you're wrong. But yes, no, he's correct. Like, you have to live with the choices you made. You don't get to do this. And so for that reason, even if they're not, like, technically the worst uniform right now in the league, we're killing those for that reason. And then the ones that I would protect forever, Dave, the Raiders were on my short list. They might even be number two for me if I really had to, like, rank it out. Number one for me, the Ravens black and purple is just, like, it's sensational. This is some Gen Z f***ing bullshit.

30:37Robert Mays: It's the idea that the Ravens black and purple jerseys are the ones that need to be protected. I was born after 2000 thing you could possibly say.

30:47Derrik Klassen: I was born the year I think that they became a franchise. So the Ravens uniforms are good, but like they're so they're so 90s, like the flying animal head and like purple and black. Like they're they're not bad, but they are just a product of their time. Like it's very easy to be like, oh, you came into being in 1998. This makes sense. And I like them.

31:10Robert Mays: But the idea that like we must protect the Ravens purple jerseys is some funny shit.

31:15Derrik Klassen: Listen, 30 years from now, I'll be right.

31:19Robert Mays: I, I don't, I'll say this. I'll start with the ones that we need to get rid of. My answer was the new Titans jerseys, just because I just don't think they should be allowed to have them from last year. The jerseys from last year that I was like, we can't keep doing this. It was the Falcons. and they're switching out their uniforms this year, it was time. Like, those ATL ones underneath the collar, like, those were bad. And so they knew that.

31:40Derrik Klassen: Has any division over the last 10 years been worse than the NFC South? Like, the alarm clock bucks were bad. The Saints have had some gnarly ones. Like, the NFC South has been disgusting.

31:50Robert Mays: The Saints alternates that they wear are often ugly. There's so many bad Saints alternates, but overall, I'm fine with the Saints. Yeah, that's true.

31:57Derrik Klassen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, the Saints black helmets. The Saints black helmets or whatever. but like the the saints like color rushes that they wear where like the all white is like the

32:07Robert Mays: all white is good i'm okay with that i just don't like the the saints black helmets i don't like the white the whites are okay i do not like the black helmets and so there are enough like alternate saints uniforms that i'm just not a fan of i don't like the gold numbers on the black like the super gold numbers like the p color gold numbers those are not my favorite oh yeah but so that's those those are just the alternates though like that it's whatever um the the one that i don't find any with derek mentioning the alarm clock jerseys i don't find any current nfl uniforms as offensive as some of the other ones that we've had over the last 10 years so i think it's harder to find a good answer i think the patriots is actually a really good one the patriots needing like a total revamp i'm 100 on board with that the ones i would protect the packers and steelers can never change their uniforms.

32:55Robert Mays: Agree. Like I, that's one where we could just have those forever.

32:58Derrik Klassen: It's the same as the Raiders. What do you think of the Packers white helmets though? Like I wouldn't want them to wear those all the time, but I like those. Like when they mix it up a couple of times, those are fine. White outs are incredible. Cause I'm with you, Dave, like Penn States, like that's a clean look. Anytime a team rolls out like the storm trooper Jersey, I'm all about it. I'm okay.

33:17Robert Mays: The team has an alternate every once in a while, but like those teams that have had those classic uniforms, they have to keep those uniforms forever.

33:24Derrik Klassen: primary colors simple logos I some people think it's boring but I just think you can't go wrong

33:31Robert Mays: it's not feel I mean the Bears blue jerseys I would never want those to be to change from like being like just the standard ones like I would want those forever um for me the ones that if I could change one um or bring one back I love the Seahawks throwbacks like I just I love the primary blue Seahawks throwbacks with the silver helmets like I think those uniforms are incredible and so So that's the only team we hadn't mentioned yet that I would throw in there. And I think the Kelly green Eagles too. Like those, I would prefer the Kelly green Eagles all the time. We got to throw the Seahawks back to the AFC West.

34:02If they bring them, I support that.

34:04Derrik Klassen: The Seahawks throwbacks are awesome. And maybe it's just because they've had three or four really kick-ass teams, but this modern Seahawks uniform era with like, like the Navy and the action green and the checkerboards on the numbers, Like it's really grown on me. Like you win two Super Bowls in a uniform template. I'm listening. Like I don't want them to get rid of that completely where I'm like, yes, that is, that is now an undeniable part of the identity of the Seahawks. I would be sad if they got rid of it completely.

34:37Robert Mays: It's a really good argument. I think it's the best argument for keeping it. I think that that has overshadowed the actual quality of the uniform. I don't think the uniform is good, but I think because they've been so successful in it, now we're tied to it forever. All right. What's the next one, Bar? Okay, this one is from 374 on Discord. 374 says, can we measure how good an organization is at drafting by knowing how many players they drafted are on NFL rosters, be it their own or somewhere else? If so, who grades out highly here? Or does this show that they are better at development, or I guess worse if those players stick in the league somewhere else?

35:09As an example, in 2024, there were four or five centers who played on teams, and they had all been drafted by the Cowboys. So, Derek, what do we think about this one?

35:17Derrik Klassen: this one is is really difficult to untangle um i would say that just purely basing it off of like do these guys stick in the nfl i don't think that works for like every round of the draft i think that's a good way to do it if we're judging like rounds four through seven maybe even three through seven just guys who are like okay they can stick around and so if we're judging it off of that that's fine but i think you can look at some classes like i'm going to take the 2021 jaguars for example. They draft Travis Achan, Tyson Campbell, Walker Little, Andre Sisco. If you look at like weighted approximate value on pro football reference, they're all decent.

35:54Derrik Klassen: Like Achan's at 33, Tyson Campbell, 25, Walker Little, 18, Andre Sisco, 20. These are all guys who have started a lot of football games. They've played for a while, gotten second contracts for other teams and stuff like that. But the only one that is still on the roster is Walker Little, who was extended by the previous regime and like never really started before he even got extended this was like a we don't even like the guy who's ahead of him so we're going to keep this guy and let him play and so that's one of those ones where it's like sure these are all NFL players how much did they ever really do for you really and so that's why I think just basing it off that can get a little bit complicated and then even going back to the Ravens who we just talked about they've got a

36:33Robert Mays: lot of those guys where it's like they're number one by a lot yeah they're number one by if we're

36:37Derrik Klassen: judge and get off of that like can they just identify guys who can hang it's it's the ravens but that's that's not always the question when you're when you're trying to do that i think at least i weight it differently across the front and back half of the draft too i mean let's just be honest like i'd say you could even talk me into the value of a fourth round pick but really the fifth sixth and seventh rounds that those picks are just not valuable enough for an NFL team to have too much patience or runway with you. It's like, okay, jump onto the moving train. And if you do, that's great, but we don't have a lot of time to wait around.

37:16Derrik Klassen: Like I think in this day and age, most teams are going to try to give all of their draft picks, like a rookie training camp to make the team. And I think that that's not a hard and fast rule, but like as a rookie, you're going to try to keep as many of your draft picks as possible. But then after that, it's how How well are you picking it up? How quickly are you adjusting? How do the coaches see you as a fit? What does the depth chart look like in front of you? Are you going to get an opportunity? Did somebody else break onto the scene? Did the second round pick from two years ago finally have the light come on, and now the depth chart is a little bit more crowded than it was when you got drafted?

37:54Derrik Klassen: And it's tough to hold a fifth through seventh round pick to that standard, Whereas rounds one through four, these are the guys that you have really identified and put weight on. And they're the ones that you need to hit. I am judging you based on whether those guys stick on your team and do something for you. If you got to cut your sixth round pick after his second training camp because time waits for no man and he becomes a great player for somebody else. That's a cool story. I don't know how much credit I think you get for that, though, you know.

38:32Robert Mays: I go back and forth on this. I think there is an argument that it is a good measure of just the ability to identify NFL level talents throughout the draft. And I think that the Ravens are a good example of this, right? Like the Ravens have players that they drafted in like the fifth round of some of these drafts, the sixth round of some of these drafts, where they've been able to stick in the league for a really long time. And I think there's something to that, right? Like you look at the Ravens draft history over the last like 10 years. And some of the guys that come to mind when like in this exact discussion, Darren Waller was a Ravens draft pick, you know?

39:11Robert Mays: Sorry, I had other ones. Jermaine Illuminor was a Ravens draft pick. Bradley Bozeman was a Ravens draft pick. There are a lot of guys, Ben Powers, Geno Stone, Ben Bredesen was a Ravens draft pick in the fourth round. Like they've done a very good job just being able to identify all throughout the draft, this guy can play in the NFL. And I do think there's a ton of value in that. But what this doesn't account for is, I don't think the idea of, is this a sign of development? I think it's the opposite of that. I think if your draft picks are doing well elsewhere, it's a sign that you picked the right players.

39:45Robert Mays: Maybe you weren't able to develop them in the right way within your system and for your team. So I think it is a good measure of drafting quality. The only problem here is it's not a measure of impact because this doesn't account for scale. Like in something like this, the idea that Ben Bredesen is still in the NFL matters as much as what Kyle Hamilton is. And so the impact overall and like the scale of how much and how good some of these draft picks are, we have to take that into account. Like it's not just how many singles you hit. The home runs matter very much in measuring overall draft quality.

40:19Derrik Klassen: This makes me think of a very specific story that always comes to mind when I think about this stuff. I guess it was probably 2018. The Cowboys identified an undrafted free agent by the name of Charverius Ward. And they found him and brought him in, and he was having a nice rookie training camp. And, like, at a preseason game, they pulled him off the field and told him they were trading him to, I think he started out in Kansas City, right? Yeah, they traded him to Kansas City for an offensive lineman. The offensive lineman got hurt. I don't even remember his name. He wound up playing no meaningful snaps for the Cowboys and Charverius Ward goes on to become an all pro and a good player for several different NFL teams and makes a ton of money on mitigated success story.

41:08Derrik Klassen: And it's like, that's really cool that you were able to identify that guy. And like you were right to prioritize calling him after the draft. But what does it mean for the Dallas Cowboys? And I mean, I think you're I think you're right. Like that is, it's an impressive, good, reliable ability, but I don't know. I don't know how much credit I'm giving the Cowboys for Char Berius Ward kicking ass after getting dealt out of town.

41:32Robert Mays: Because development matters and utilization matters and having a plan for a guy matters. But in terms of being able to purely identify draftable talent, I do think that is indicative of something. And I do think that often over time, it will stack up in a way as you want it to. The team right behind the Ravens in this exercise is the Niners. it's a lot of really good teams at the top of this in terms of who has the most players on NFL

41:54Derrik Klassen: rosters it sets a baseline if most of your worst draft picks are guys who can at least stick around that means you're more likely than not a lot of your good ones are going to end up being guys who are high impact players because like think about again like part of the reason the Browns have stunk at drafting for the last 10 years or so is they do miss on a lot of their premium picks but like they've also hit on a lot of those the reason they have been bad for a lot of this time is if you look at their like rounds four through seven it's a lot of guys who are just like cut immediately and like that's that's kind of how you end up being like one of those franchises who really

42:25Robert Mays: really get stuck i also think the first ravens conversation the second ravens conversation what's the difference between the ravens recently and the browns the ravens make a lot of picks at the end of the day it is still incredibly valuable to make a shitload of draft picks

42:42Derrik Klassen: thank you for reminding me of that Robert because it was a point I wanted to make during the Ravens thing which is like we say all the time um like bad process can lead to good results and vice versa I think part of the reason people are enamored with the Ravens so much is I really do think the process is undeniably good like give yourself as many bites at the apple as humanly possible. I always want to be making more draft picks than anybody else. And over Eric DaCosta's time as GM, they've averaged nine picks per year. So like they've averaged two more picks than their allotment per year during his time as GM.

43:22Derrik Klassen: And not every pick has been good. I'm sure they've, they would redo some things, but give me as many bites at the apple as possible. And I'll take my chances that I'm eventually right. Yeah.

43:33Robert Mays: It's easier to find Isaiah likely in the fourth round when you have six fourth round picks because that's how many they had the year they drafted isaiah likely silly all right what's the next one okay stowley on discord as silly also in parentheses has a naggy truther wants us to know that uh you know that's that's part of the personality here so i have so many questions it's a there are dozens of a situation i think he's a he's a Giants fan just for the record yes that is true okay all right great great that's that's that's gonna play it's gonna play into this question too so Stoli says one of the coolest things about football is the wildly different body types and skill sets that play the same sport or on the field at the same time and even occasionally play the same position what are some of the all-time great teammates that played the same position with drastically different body types or play styles and here comes that Giants fandom he included as an example Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw.

44:31Super fun question, Robert. What do you got here?

44:33Robert Mays: My all-time example is I was standing on the sideline at training camp in Nashville. I don't know what year it would have been. Probably five or six years ago now. And Derek Henry was standing next to Deion Lewis. And I was like, this is a beautiful sport. That's amazing. I love it so much. Everything about the fact that these two guys could exist on the same field, playing the same position, doing the same thing is one of the reasons that this is the greatest game in the whole world.

45:01Derrik Klassen: Is that maybe the position where you can kind of get the most? It probably is, right?

45:07Robert Mays: Receiver, right? Like in theory, you could have a 5 '8 receiver and a 6 '6 receiver on the same team. Like that's also something you could do.

45:17Derrik Klassen: So a cheap one that immediately came to my mind was like the 07 Patriots having Wes Welker, who was like 5 '9", 180 pounds, and also Randy Moss, who was Randy Moss. Like that's different, different players playing the same position. Technically the, for the same reasons, the late era, Russ Seahawks with five, 10, 180 pound Tyler Lockett and six, three, 230 pound DK Metcalf. That's a great one. Yeah.

45:44Robert Mays: There's, there's so many good examples. Like, and it's just, it Ted did a good job of this tend to win this week on the athletic, wrote a story about this draft class, the 2026 draft class and how stacking receivers next to each other overall is ridiculous like it's why are we comparing trying to think of the best example who's like a small jitterbug receiver in

46:04Derrik Klassen: this draft that i should be talking about i mean casey concepcion is kind of like that no casey

46:09Robert Mays: concepcion is like a real outside receiver who's like the like branch right oh yeah branch is a perfect one or burks yeah yeah like deon burks compared to like denzel boston it's like those guys are we don't have to compare them as players like we can compare the Denzel Boston's the apples

46:26Derrik Klassen: to apples and the oranges to oranges the all-time best one Robert you reminded me of this with the Derrick Henry shout and like they weren't they were college teammates they weren't teammates in the NFL I don't think or actually were they no they weren't um but the photo of I think like Mark Ingram went back to do the coin toss at Bama for one of the national title games like after he was a pro and he's at midfield with Derrick Henry. It's like a popular, it's like a meme now, like Mark Ingram out of uniform standing next to Derrick Henry and Mark Ingram is five, nine, two 20. Like he's not a small dude, but he looks really small standing next to fully uniformed Derrick Henry.

47:08Derrik Klassen: It's one of my favorite photos. All right, let's take one more quick break and then come back and hit a couple more of these.

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48:44Derrik Klassen: AI pilots are easy, but scaling AI across enterprise customer experience is where most organizations fail. Parloa's agentic CX platform helps enterprises move from experimentation to production. With the AI agent management platform for enterprise CX, companies can design, test, and orchestrate production-grade AI agents across customer service operations. The result, AI agents that turn customer conversations into lasting loyalty. Learn more at parloa.com. All right, we come out of the break with one that is right and ripe for the athletic football show. Headline plays, how big is too big? There's a lot of sizes on the show, and for good reason.

49:28But at what point across different positions are you starting to get or completely out on a guy? I mean, Derek, you have to take this one first. I will.

49:37Derrik Klassen: I feel like I'm the chief sizest guy on this show. So I'll start. It does like it would take us a while to go through every single position, but I feel like a good benchmark for every non trench position. Once you get to like six, six, you're probably pushing it. And like there, there can be a couple of exceptions, but like you're pushing it at that range. It's the, it's the, you can be too tall to play quarterback fit that you've done. Like you kind of can be. And I think once you get past that, you're pushing it a little bit. The same is kind of true wide receiver. Like at a certain point, if you're too tall, probably a little hard to like get down and sink and get in and out of your routes, like certain stuff like that.

50:14Derrik Klassen: Same obviously is true of like corner safety, all that stuff. So that's probably the range there. Trench, I think it's more about weight because there are plenty of guys who are 6 '6", 6 '7", 6 '8", all that sort of stuff, and they can hang in the NFL. I feel like once you get to like 360, you're really starting to get into dangerous waters. And there are a couple of outliers, obviously, like Trent Brown was over this. He ended up being a good player. Orlando Brown, I think, was over this and ended up being a good player. But you're treading in some pretty dangerous territory once you push past 360.

50:49Robert Mays: Those are the two things that I had. Like at 6 '6", over 6 '5", you're a tight end. You're not a receiver anymore. And the big, big offensive lineman, the massive offensive tackles, I think that's one that wouldn't concern me.

51:01Derrik Klassen: My only addition to the conversation, I just came down with the Supreme court definition of pornography. Like I, I can't define it, but I know it when I see it, I just feel like you, you can tell watching a guy if he's like too big to be doing what he's doing. And like, even I w I was curious, just going back and looking even at like six, five, I would like to see a freakish degree of athleticism to want to bet on like a six, five guys. And like, And there's plenty of those, right? Like Calvin Johnson comes to mind, but he was a generational prospect. Like I want to see something special to believe that you're going to buck that trend typically, like after a certain size threshold.

51:49Derrik Klassen: And yeah, I would say 6 '5", 6 '6", is where I start to get curious. I think that's actually a good way to frame it because it's like, is your frame the attraction here? Or is it like amazing that you can move the way that you do at that frame? You know what I mean? Like if we're just being like, oh, he's 6 '7", 350, that's crazy. But it's not like a, oh, he's so good athletically at that size. Like that I think is the, you know it when you see it kind of part of the element. All right, Battle, what's the next one? Okay, this is from Jonathan. Don't call me Lars Ulrich. Maybe he would like that.

52:23Maybe he could be a big Metallica fan. So Jonathan, do call me Lars Ulrich says, I have heard you guys talk multiple times about edge players that are labeled as more of an ideal number two, like Montez Sweat, which got me thinking, how many actual number one pass rushers are there? I would assume it is anywhere near 32. Is there a clear line of demarcation somewhere? And can you put together a list of your true number one pass rushers? Robert, why don't you take this one?

52:48Robert Mays: I can try to do both of those things. My true number one guys that I had going through the list, I'm sure I might be missing someone because I was trying to stack it up with a couple of different things. It was contracts and it was production last year. And so there might be somebody who hasn't gotten paid or somebody who was hurt last year that I might miss as part of this list. But I had like, I think 10 guys. So Miles Garrett, Will Anderson, and Daniel Hunter. The Texans have two. Micah Parsons. I still have Trey Hendrickson as like a number one edge rusher when he's healthy. I think it's probably closer to the line now, but I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt.

53:22Robert Mays: Aiden Hutchinson I'm throwing in there. Jared Verse, I think, is still in there. TJ Watt, if you look at the attention that he gets, I'm still putting TJ Watt in that conversation. Max Crosby, Nick Bosa. So how many is that? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. So I had 10 guys who I think are like true number ones. And I actually do think the market has done a really good job of sorting out where that line of demarcation is. If you look at the contracts that have been handed out and what guys are getting paid, I think right now the line, if I were to draw it, Jalen Phillips is the start of the second tier of guys at that$30 million a year.

53:59Robert Mays: And then you look at the players paid right under him Josh Heinz Allen Brian Burns Montez Sweat Nick Benito like that feels right like it seems like the market has like shit that is shaken out in the way that it should

54:11Derrik Klassen: shake out so that's interesting because I think a couple of those guys are like I would probably put them slightly above the line like I think Josh Heinz Allen probably clears it to me and I

54:21Robert Mays: do think right there and after last year I think you could make a strong argument that he belongs in tier one but I think that's right that's right where you're having a discussion yes exactly and

54:30Derrik Klassen: I do think like this also gets down to a little bit of like are we talking purely as pass rushers or like number one like all the round defensive end which like maybe changes the math slightly on some of these guys but like I do think that like around Jalen Phillips is the line because like Phillips I would put under it but like Josh Heinz Allen who's like right in that tier I would put like just above it and probably give him the doubt I think that's fair and I think after last

54:53Robert Mays: year maybe john and because i think he got paid before last season he got that contract i think in 2024 and so after last season i think you could make an argument that josh shines out and belongs above the line with those other guys i gotta tell y 'all i'm really encouraged to hear

55:07Derrik Klassen: this because i think of myself as the more forgiving of the three of us and i was expecting both of y 'all to be like there are four and only four like i did have a tier of four that's kind of like the one plus tier you know what i mean and then i i got some other guys in there i it's it's similar to quarterback in the sense and robert alluded to it but there are so many variables that make it hard to make a hard and fast list like trey hendrickson is a perfect example but also i'm not willing to write off nick bosa as having elite edge rusher gas in the tank even though he played like two and a half games last last year so i would throw bosa and hendrickson in there And then at any given time, yeah, there's like three or four guys that could ascend onto that plane for a season or a stretch of a season.

55:58Derrik Klassen: I like Josh Hines Allen is worth a mention. Jonathan Grenard was banged up, but like he's certainly on the low end of that. Nick Benito deserves to be mentioned. And he's he's top of mind because he just made a shitload of money. But like Trayvon Walker is continuing to ascend as an edge rusher as well. I know he's not he's not like a pure sack getting edge, but he is still a really, really good still ascending player, in my opinion. So, like, I'm not going to argue with you if you say 10. If you want to be a little more forgiving and say, like, 12 to 14, I'm OK with that, too.

56:35Robert Mays: That's about where I find I sit with it. And I think Josh Hines Allen is a good one, Derek. I think he probably deserves the nod. But other than that, I think all of those guys fall just below that line to me.

56:43Derrik Klassen: yeah I will say the lastly the one that I think is most interesting because he was only a rookie obviously where Abdul Carter I he's probably like the trickiest one to rank because you only have one year to go off of and like the run defense is more tackles for lost and like setting the edge but I do think that he's the one that like if you're trying to project who's going to jump into

57:02Robert Mays: that tier next year it's probably him it's just too early right it's just like you don't do it

57:06Derrik Klassen: off one year unless it's like Miles Garrett like Miles Garrett as a rookie you were like well that That guy's a little bit different.

57:12Robert Mays: Jared versus rookie year was enough for me to be like, yeah, he's probably in there. Like, I think that's the other guy, like as a rookie, I was like, yep, done. I'm all set here. All right, Bill, let's do one more. Yeah, here's the last question. This is from Dan. Now, Dan is comparing Kenyon Sadiq as the top 10 tight end in this year's draft class, you guys, to the wide receivers that we've been talking about as we lead up to the draft. And so his email lays that out and then takes it to the current state of wide receivers and tight ends in the league and says, how far down the top wide receiver list would you have to go before you say, I'd rather have someone like Brock Bowers or Trey McBride than this guy, than this wide receiver?

57:49He wants us to answer that through a lens of, when does the top tight end in the draft class start to measure up with a group of wide receivers? So what do you got on this one, Dave?

57:59Derrik Klassen: Am I being too mean if I say I got like 15 names down the list of receivers before I was starting to think about it? I knew this was going to go this way because I've got about a third of that. I'm maybe I'm too fantasy football pilled. I don't know. Or maybe again, the most recent season weighs so heavily like I had Trey McBride was incredible last year, but Brock Bowers obviously was he was banged up. He didn't have anything resembling his rookie year, but I just I don't know, man. I look at it. I look at what receivers are doing for their offenses, the scoring potential that they have and I mean I don't know should I list them off like I got Chase Puka JSN Jefferson CD AJ Brown Devante Smith Amon Rod Drake London Jalen Waddle Chris Alave Pickens T Higgins Tedaroa McMillan and I'll even like I love Garrett Wilson like I threw him in there too and I'm just like That's why I think we get silly times.

59:01Derrik Klassen: No, I know. You hate Garrett.

59:03Robert Mays: Give Garrett Wilson a quarterback with a pulse. Seriously. Visit this conversation.

59:08Derrik Klassen: He's a good player, but I'll even say this. Like, you guys know how much I love Ted O 'Reilly and McMillan. There are like, there are like four or five tight ends I would rather have before Ted O 'Reilly and McMillan. And he's awesome. Really?

59:18Robert Mays: Going forward for the next five years? Probably. Like, well, I guess if we're going forward for the next five years, that probably changes

59:26Derrik Klassen: the math. But like, I mean, Trey McBride, certainly Brock Bowers, certainly. like if you could tell me even for the next like three years i'm getting like the best of george kittle which i'm probably not given his injury history but like if we're talking about like who is changing their offense and who really gives you stuff like peak george kittle is all better than all but like four receivers in the nfl right now so that's an interesting answer yeah because it's different than mcbride and and bowers as a multi-faceted weapon like if i mean if if you if we're talking about a tight end that gives your run game significant juice while also being a very real receiving threat you could change my opinion but if it's just like if if it's like a you know a souped up slot like big slot tight end who's primarily a receiver i feel fine with my list of 15

1:00:16Robert Mays: yeah my probably get closer to like eight or ten

1:00:22Derrik Klassen: i think that's fair i think that's probably like a more reasonable stance than what i have like eight or ten i think is good because yeah it gets like all of your like true alphas basically jsn

1:00:33Robert Mays: puka jamar chase amanrast brown cd lamb justin jefferson that's six aj brown seven drake london eight those are the ones where i'm like absolutely i think that those guys are above then i think the group that's slightly one step down from that that we can go back and forth on is like olave

1:00:59Derrik Klassen: nico collins um shit i forgot about nico that's just a that's an error on my part but i would throw him on my list for sure if he's healthy that's probably where i start going back and

1:01:12Robert Mays: forth on it and i think i can still get a few more receivers before i get to the tight ends

1:01:16Derrik Klassen: so my my answer is probably 10 see i i i think if i like really got down to like actually having to make the decisions i would probably get to like eight i think i had four where i was like no doubt about it i don't even think about it which is puka jsn yeah justin this is what i was expecting with the edge rusher question where derrick's like actually actually there are only six good players in the nfl listen this is kind of how i think about receivers and so that's the four where I'm like no doubt about it I don't even think about it AJ Brown like if last year didn't happen I think would also probably be in that tier for me but just last year was so weird and then you get to the tier of like I think I would take them I think I would take the receiver but I'm not 100 % sure which is like the Drake London's Amon Ra uh CeeDee Lamb is in there Nico Collins is in there for me it's a lot of like your exes um I think even I think the one and this actually goes back a little bit to like what I was saying about Amon Ra St.

1:02:14Derrik Klassen: Brown during all the Makai Lemon discussions like T Higgins is probably in this category for me because like I just think X receiver like that is very very difficult to find so he's probably one that's like a weird one for me to pick between but then that's kind of where it stops for me like Devonta Smith is an awesome player Chris Olave is an awesome player I would much rather have the best tight end in the league than a guy like that let me ask you this because I think it might be more interesting how many tight ends are you putting in the mix for this conversation like McBride and Bowers kind of goes without saying Colston Loveland's first season makes you lean in that direction, but maybe it's a little too early to say something.

1:02:52Robert Mays: We didn't include Colston Loveland. I would have Colston Loveland above everyone except JSN and Puka.

1:02:57Derrik Klassen: Colston Loveland's already, they're already doing his bust. We understand that.

1:03:02Robert Mays: I'd rather have Colston Loveland right now than Jamar Chase. Like, I don't think that's even like that. At this point, I mean, like what he's giving you all across the board, It's like, I don't even think it's a conversation. I mean, I unironically would put Colston Loveland, like,

1:03:18Derrik Klassen: disturbingly high on this list, probably. You're not wrong. It's just too early. Like, yeah, sure. I get that. I feel that way after one year, but it's one year.

1:03:28Robert Mays: I mean, let's go back and watch what the 2025 season was. I think I can make a pretty serious argument that Colston Loveland is better than Justin Jefferson.

1:03:34Derrik Klassen: That is technically that is how the second half of that year definitely played. There's a kernel of truth in every good joke. That's the funny part about this. Yeah, but like, I don't know, man. Outside of... I think it's those three and Kittle. I guess if you're doing, again, the five years thing, that complicates it a little bit. But if you're saying like the next two years, I do think like Kittle I would want in there. What if I gave you Tucker Kraft fully healthy week one? Oh, Kraft is a good answer if he's healthy, for sure. I think that's where it becomes the most complicated because I think Kraft is fantastic.

1:04:08Derrik Klassen: I think he's not... And that one actually is tough because that one is like I would want to see what it looks like in an offense that throws more. And like I think that he is obviously very capable of that and like being closer to like what Trey McBride is capable of on a volume sense. It's just like we're never going to get that in Green Bay. And so there is some element of me that's like kind of want to see it, even though I do think he's exceptionally talented.

1:04:34Robert Mays: Derek is an unreliable narrator when it comes to this question.

1:04:39Derrik Klassen: listen you're telling me to pick between the like 190 pound receivers and the 250 pound like freak

1:04:46Robert Mays: tight ends come on you're just asking him to choose between all of his children here as he rejects the small people all right that is all we've got for this go around with the mailbag sincerely appreciate everyone who sent in questions i will not be on next week's mailbag so these guys We'll be doing the heavy lifting, which I sincerely appreciate. Thank you to everyone who sent in questions. It's why we do this every single week in the offseason. Always a fun time. We will be back tomorrow as we keep running through our 2026 NFL draft coverage. See you guys later. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode.

1:05:26Robert Mays: If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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