Monday Mailbag: The peak of fandom, breaking losing cycles, Bill and Ted for the NFL, and more

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1:19Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mayes. It's Monday during the offseason, which means it's time for another Mailbag Monday. As always, sincerely appreciate everyone who spent the time to send in questions. Got some good ones from Discord. Always get a bunch of great ones from our email. We're just going to be doing these every single week. And so I'm going to solicit questions. But also, if you just want to send them in, athleticfootballshow at gmail.com. We will be checking that email periodically. We'll be cycling through it. And so do not hesitate if you have one in mind and you want us to answer it.

1:51Robert Mays: Because we will be doing these every single Monday all throughout the offseason, only with a couple exceptions. Another great set of questions, great set of conversations with me, Dave, Derek, and our producer, Michael Beller, reading the questions. So let's get to it right now.

2:15Robert Mays: It's another Mailbag Monday here on the Athletic Football Show. And after a week away, Beller's back to read the questions. I was very uncomfortable last week. it's like throwing with your left hand out you know I just there was something about it that just made me feel a little bit icky so I'm glad you're back to help shepherd us through this I'm glad I'm back too I missed last week because I always try to take off the first weekend of the NCAA tournament and so I did that and I was instantly sad with Wisconsin playing like the fourth game like fourth game of the day uh on Thursday and being the only one of the top five seeds that lost in the first round so maybe this is like the mailbag gods telling me that i should be here for all mailbag episodes going forward it's been a good tournament though i mean it's been an entertaining tournament for the most part super entertaining it's been great i do not uh i do not bemoan the lack of upsets we've had a lot of very fun second sweet 16 games it's been a great year a great tourney other than my guys going down in the first i'm gonna say not to be a jerk

3:13Derrik Klassen: Beller, but like the whole big 10 is in the elite eight and Wisconsin, you know, we don't need to talk about it. I'm sorry. Am I upset that of the three teams that have already qualified as we're sitting here recording this for the elite eight, that Wisconsin went four and one against them in the regular season with three of those wins coming outside of Madison. No, I'm not upset about that at all. In fact, I think we should just get to the show. So let's do it. Dylan Murphy has our first question. And he says, as a Seattle Seahawks fan, when this year wrapped up, I tentatively felt that In terms of losing essential players, we were actually in pretty good shape for a team that just won it all.

3:44That said, I've been confused by the way we've handled the running back room since then. Even if I didn't like it, it was understood that Kenneth Walker would probably be out of the building with the JSN and Witherspoon contracts looming. With the Charbonnet injury in mind, I would have bet everything on Seattle ending up with one of the Algier Dowdle white-level backs after free agency. Now that we've seen how little some of those guys were paid, I'm even more confused by the lack of aggression here. Are we really going to head into next season starting Emmanuel Wilson and George Helani in the middle of our very real Super Bowl window?

4:12No Kubiak's only going to make things worse. Am I crazy for thinking Seattle has kind of botched this with the lack of urgency at running back here? Is a third, fourth round rookie really going to be enough to make this make sense? Robert, what do you got for us on this one?

4:24Robert Mays: We talked about this on one of the shows that we did just about wrapping up free agency and just the biggest questions we had left. And one of my questions was who's going to play running back for the Seahawks at the beginning of the season. But correct or not, I'm not like overly concerned about it. I mean, Zach Charbonnet will be back at some point. It might not be for week one, but he will be back. And I think there are just some teams that look at running back and even Seattle, who has drafted a lot of running backs relatively high, and they're just not going to get overly concerned about it.

4:53Robert Mays: Hearing John Schneider talk about it on the radio last week, he was kind of like, eh, you can find him. You can find him. And I think we'll be able to find him. And the other part of this is, if you look at it, Seattle has$33 million in cap space currently, according to over the cat for 2026. But right now, they're already top seven in cash spending. And if they give give Devin Witherspoon a contract this year, let's just say hypothetically, it's another 25 million in cash for 2026. And it might be more than that. That probably puts them like second and overall cash spending. So even though they're not totally up against the cap, the amount of cash they've spent over the last calendar year, when you throw in the Charles cross contract, the JSN contract, the spoon deal that's about to happen, the Darnold money from last year.

5:35Robert Mays: There's a chance that there are just some areas where they're like, you know what, the 15 million, it may not seem like a lot, but for us right now, I'd rather try to get that player for next to free. Can they find them? The only good running back they've had in a long time was Kenneth Walker, who they had to draft 41st overall. So I like, I understand that that's like their kind of philosophy, but I'm not sure they can find them. I will say, I think at some part of me feels a little bit similar to, I can't remember what year this was, but it was either 2022 or 2023 when the Vikings went into the year with Alexander Madison as RB1.

6:08And I was like, that is an unserious approach to the position. This is a little bit different because like you said, Charbonnet is coming back. So it's like, they will have a good player back at some point, but going into the season when you are in like a potential repeat window, if you wanted to be going into it with Emmanuel Wilson, who like, I think is a really good player, probably not like a week one starter type. And then George Helani, who has always been like an RB3, RB4 type, like it's a little bit unserious, but when you win the Super Bowl, you are afforded a little bit of time to be unserious if you want to be.

6:37Robert Mays: So here's the thing, though. Let's just say Emmanuel Wilson's there for week one through six as the starter, and then Zach Charbonnet gets back. Right. If he feels tolerable, right? It's a very real chance that happens.

6:49Derrik Klassen: The other point I would bring up is I think the playoffs are coloring the way that we look at a lot of this. Like Kenneth Walker was amazing in the postseason, but Seattle's run game was not this overpowering force for most of last season. The Seahawks were 23rd in rushing success rate. They're 25th in EPA per carry. They were middle of the pack and explosive run rate. I can hear Seahawks fans saying, yeah, that's because Kenneth Walker didn't get the ball enough, but they still built a hell of a team with a running game that was solid, but nothing special for most of last season. And so if Charbonnet is back at some point, Helani is there.

7:28Derrik Klassen: Emmanuel Wilson is there. Do I think you can get by? And by the way, I think this is worth saying too. We talked about it with Dane, Robert. This is not an amazing running back class. Like if you're not getting Jeremiah Love or maybe Jadarian Price, you're probably not getting a day one badass like workhorse running back. Does that mean you can't draft a guy to come in and be your third back and potentially bring that explosive element? I don't think that's true. Plenty of people have talked about Mike Washington out of Arkansas. I think that's like the hot name to pair with the Seahawks. It makes a ton of sense.

8:03Derrik Klassen: But you could also go after a guy like Nick Singleton out of Penn State who he's dealing with a broken foot right now. But I think he's supposed to be fine for the NFL draft. right up there in Seattle, a guy that I love a lot, Jonah Coleman. Like there are guys you can draft outside of even like the top two rounds who, no, they're not going to be stars, but they can be pieces of the backfield. And I think it'll be fine. And one more thing I would throw in, if it's not fine, there are a lot of intriguing players that I think you might be able to get at the trade deadline, right? Like Seattle did that for Rashid Shahid last November.

8:41Derrik Klassen: what if this year if you're halfway through the year and it just sucks maybe then you go after Devon HN and maybe the Dolphins are more willing to do that deal in the middle of the season maybe you go after um Tony Pollard is a guy like if you know if if the Titans just feel like a he's his deal's about to expire b maybe the Titans just aren't a very good team maybe this fifth free agent spending spree didn't work the way they wanted it to and they're willing to do that. Like there are guys you can get in the middle of next year. So I don't feel great about it right now. I really doubt it's going to be the reason why the Seahawks don't repeat the small wrinkle with the draft thing though.

9:19Derrik Klassen: They don't have picks.

9:20Robert Mays: They have four picks. They have one pick beyond the top 100. That's the only, that's the problem here.

9:26Derrik Klassen: Barring, barring draft day maneuvering. It's going to need to be pick 64 or pick 96. And yeah, like it, it sucks, but you could still do it like you could draft a running back with one of those picks if you feel really strongly about it or like i said i mean helani and emmanuel wilson could probably get you through until charbonnet is healthy and if not then we get to do some fun trade deadline shows about the seahawks needing a running back i've enjoyed that over as we've talked more and more and as people

9:57Robert Mays: have talked more and more about jeremiah love potentially going to the titans like they just treat Tony Pollard like he's a corpse. It's just like, he's fine.

10:06Derrik Klassen: Pretend he doesn't exist. In defense of my man TP, like big veteran running back free agent deals often don't age well. He's been perfectly good since he got in Tennessee. He's been perfectly fine. Like in a horrible situation, he's been perfectly fine. So that's a great point. If the Titans draft Jeremiah Love on draft weekend, then you could get Tony Pollard before training camp even starts potentially i'm just telling pollard making this year base salary six

10:35Robert Mays: or seven million bucks yeah it's seven million bucks it's yeah it's fine that's solid for a starting running back though that's not hurting you but what's our next one okay fox daddy has the next one reminder here with fox daddy sure does fox daddy um let's uh get in the discord this one comes to us from discord description or the link to it in the show description Assume for the sake of the question that the Dolphins absolutely nail this draft. All the players drafted in the first three rounds are solid starters, and there's even a Pro Bowl player mixed in there. What positions would they have to have drafted for you to feel curious about their offense?

11:09What would they have to have drafted for you to feel like they can actually evaluate Malik Willis as the quarterback going forward? We had a similar question to this one from Vince in our email. Derek, take this one away first. So I think the complicating factor with this is like, sure, they have a lot of picks, but like, I would say more of those need to be spent on the defense. So then it's a matter of just like, how many can you even afford to spend on the offense? I think when you trade away a player like Jalen Waddell, if we're assuming all these players are some caliber of good, one of those guys has to be receiver.

11:40But I almost think even though receiver is a huge pressing need, tight end is a massive need for this team. Like they have not had players there really since Johnnie Smith left. And even that was like a very specific role when he was there. And so this is Julian Hill erasure. But we're talking catching passes. You know, we're not talking. We're not talking blocking yet, which actually maybe the way this offense runs. Maybe they do need a blocker. But I would say because right now a tight end is Greg Dulcich and Ben Sims, who they signed this year. Like that's that's not really a starting caliber tight end room.

12:11So I would say probably those two spots and like they could try to swing at a guard again. like Jamari Sawyer is probably not a long-term answer for you at guard, but I would say like the offensive line can probably get by as is assuming those young players take a step.

12:25Robert Mays: Dave and Dane just did a show this week about how there are a thousand tight ends in this draft. I mean, I assume with 43, 75, 87, 90, 94, or 130, you might be able to find a playable one. And if Makai Lemon is the 11th overall pick plus one of those tight ends and those guys are good. I don't

12:42Derrik Klassen: know I'll watch that I love Jalen Waddle right he's a he's a fantastic player I'm very excited about what he might do for Denver but I do I'm a little bemused by the idea that like three weeks ago sickos like us were intrigued by the Dolphins and like oh like this could be all right and then Jalen Waddle leaves and everybody's like this is a wasteland it's not even worth looking at like the Dolphins are so terrible and like Jalen Waddle is a good player but But I refuse to believe he was holding it up to that degree where they immediately become an uninteresting team because Jalen Waddle is not there.

13:19Robert Mays: Like, I think it's about the alternatives, though. It's not about losing Jalen Waddle. It's about the downgrade from Jalen Waddle to what is now left. I also it was like to me, I think it was a specific identity, too. Right. It's like, yes, Waddle, A-Chan, Willis is like, we are way faster than you all the time. And I don't know who they can draft that would accomplish that this year.

13:37Derrik Klassen: I think that's perfectly fair, but I agree with you, Derek. I mean, first of all, we got to do something with the secondary and, I mean, really all levels of the defense. I do love, I just want to say this, though. Like, if all seven of their first three-round picks were solid starters, like, I'd be ready to put the Dolphins in the wild card chase. Like, that would be amazing. If they added seven solid players. Like, that is a crazy proposition. But for the purposes of being interested in the Dolphins' offense, I'm right there with you. Like I said, two pass catchers and maybe another offensive lineman.

14:13Derrik Klassen: That could be a guard. Maybe you drafted an air to Austin Jackson at right tackle, but like, however you want to do it. I like as cool as sin. Yeah. Kenyan Sadiq is, I think I would draft a receiver first because there are 10 million tight ends. Like if I could get one of the three big receivers and then I'm drafting Dallin Bentley later on in the draft, I could get, I could get pretty into that. Or if you want to take Sadiq, that's fine. Maybe we get Omar Cooper with pick 30 or Jeremy Bernard with pick 43. Like two pass catchers, if we're assuming that they're both going to be good quickly, two pass catchers would have me pretty intrigued in the Dolphins.

14:54Robert Mays: The only problem with tight ends being good quickly, we've had a lot of them recently that have been instant contributors, but historically that's not the case. And a lot of the guys who've been instant contributors over the last few years, The only guy really drafted outside of the first two rounds who's been one of those players is Harold Fannin. Even Tucker Craft as a rookie wasn't doing a ton. And so the idea that we can find tight ends deep into this draft, even if A.J. Barner is another good example, right? Like A.J. Barner is a solid player. He didn't do anything as a rookie. So you probably have to spend a little bit more to have an immediate impact player at that position.

15:25Robert Mays: But maybe that happens in the second round. Who knows? The other question, I wanted to just very briefly touch on this because the question we got by email was, do we overuse the phrase like we can't evaluate the quarterback because of what's around him? And I was looking at other situations recently where have there been other examples of this where their supporting cast was so bad where you didn't feel like you could evaluate the quarterback? and there are always complicating factors with it because every time that happens where the pass catchers are terrible for young quarterbacks it almost inevitably comes when the rest of the offensive ecosystem is so bad that it's hard to discern whether the pass catchers or the play calling was actually the problem like jared goff in 2016 trevor lawrence in 2021 like there are so many examples of this and i think there is there is a world where the pass catchers cannot be good but the ecosystem is solid enough where you can still evaluate the quarterback.

16:20Robert Mays: Like Mac Jones is a rookie is exactly this. And so I do think that Drake, yeah. And Drake, Drake may as a rookie is probably the same thing, but even they fired the staff after year one. Right. And so it's, I do think we probably overstate it purely based on past catching talent. I think the overall health of the offense becomes the most important thing. And I guess it's up to you, whether you believe Bobby slowly clears that bar or not. I'm at least interested to see if he can we've talked about this before it's like he does I think he might like he was listen he was imperfect in Houston and like given the way that like they struggled to I think adapt to some things in his second season I understand why they moved on but it didn't feel so offensive that he can't figure things out as he gets a little bit older

17:02Derrik Klassen: do y 'all agree with me too that and it's certainly not a perfect group but the Dolphins offensive line gives me some degree of confidence that this could be fine and like you have a chan yeah it's workable if it's really important if we bake in a half step of progress from the left side it's like that's a pretty that's a pretty solid unit yeah i mean i am i am assuming patrick paul's development is going to continue in a linear way which would be a big part of this um i know that's

17:33Robert Mays: being like better than he was as a rookie i think also has to play that's that's obviously obviously not perfect logic, but there's reason for optimism that that can be true.

17:43Derrik Klassen: And if it is, yeah, I mean, I do, you got to draft a pass catcher or two next month and at least one of them has to be worth a shit. But if you do that, I, yeah, like I, I will be interested to watch the dolphins. I'm not really, as long as we are cool with the idea that they're not ready to make the playoffs, which is fair, then I'm, I don't really get the hand wringing. Like I feel fine about the dolphins.

18:06Robert Mays: I love that to me, they're like 10 feet away from being like a total tear down, like a two win team. And Dave is like trying to inch himself closer and closer toward, are they a playoff team?

18:17Derrik Klassen: Maybe they are, but like, there's, there's reason I, there's reason for intrigue here. And the other point I would make Robert, and it goes to the, I don't understand the hand wringing. If you're not helping Malik Willis, like, I'm sorry if this sounds callous, but so what? Like, it's not this huge, it's not this crazy contract that you're going to be buried under. Like it's, I mean, Robert, you've said it like 10 times. It's just a step up from the Justin Fields deal. Like I just, he's, he's getting paid a lot of money. If he can rise above it, that's really cool. If not, the dolphins aren't going to be in some terrible spot.

18:53Derrik Klassen: So I just, I'm just not spending a lot of time losing sleep about it. I'm in the same boat.

18:58Robert Mays: I mean, you're not in a spot where you have to do everything you can to maximize him or it's like some sort of malpractice. I think having him as a dice roll is great. I think you should stay the course in every other aspect of team building rather than leveraging yourself to make sure you're giving the quarterback every single chance to succeed. What's the next one, Ballard? All right, Joe Yeoman takes us to Silly Town here. Joe says, you are given the opportunity to Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, a former player, to come and be part of the 2026 NFL season. Shout out Socrates. Who are you grabbing?

19:31and where are they going for me i want to see percy harvin placed as a do-it-all player with kyle shanahan and brock purdy dave why don't you take this one first so mine is really it's more

19:43Derrik Klassen: so about the players than it is about the specific teams but obviously we can find we can find some places to put these guys but i'm just i'm so enamored by the idea of like i want to see how athleticism compares against different generations and so i have i have three names in mind two and they're all like special athletes for the times that they played one is bob hayes who played wide receiver for the like original no i'm going way the hell back there dude like i don't i don't give a damn about guys that played 10 years ago i like i remember that you like guys played 10 years ago in HD. I want to see like Bob Hayes or, and the other one I watched, I actually watched a documentary about him on my flight back from the Superbowl.

20:33Derrik Klassen: I think I, I want to know what Jim Thorpe would look like if he was a modern NFL player. Cause like, like it's the stuff of legend about, and by the way, these are, these are the only two guys to be Olympic gold medalists and pro football hall of famers like they were unreal track stars wait what what robert i i have questions about this okay are we like putting them through a speed run of like modern

21:04Robert Mays: conditioning because the answer the answer of how good would jim thorpe be at in professional

21:09Derrik Klassen: football is he'd be terrible that is the answer in this world that jim thorpe is like he exists today and he's like training for football at least for me okay okay that's how i'm just i'm just making sure that that's the case i thought he's not ripping darts when he played and just dropping

21:27Robert Mays: him in because that is the bill and ted's excellent adventure situation i mean i guess that's fair

21:32Derrik Klassen: but no in my mind i just mean like jim thorpe's athletic prowess molded for the modern day that's fair though you're right i mean i'm just making sure that's how we're talking about this in bill and Ted, they really did just drop them in out of nowhere. But no, this would be like Jim Thorpe if he got some time to like be ready for the modern game of football. But I just I want to see what those guys would look like. And like Kyle Shanahan could do some crazy shit with them. Or obviously Bob Hayes ran a 10 flat in the 100 meter like Mike McDaniel would be all over that. It would be sick. And so I just I would love to see what those guys would look like in the modern day.

22:11Derrik Klassen: And the same goes for Gail Sayers. Like you see so many amazing clips of him just being this untackable, you know, unstoppable force. And I would just love to put those guys in modern football. You're right. That is, it is a caveat. I'm not just dropping them in and out of nowhere. We'll give them a chance to wear like modern cleats and do modern football training, but I think it would be really fun.

22:33Robert Mays: So you're taking baby Jim Thorpe and putting him in the world 20 years ago and then we're seeing where he could go i think that that's fair i think that's and we're not we're not gonna penalize him for um ruining his amateurism you know this is like a superman situation like you're dropping a baby into the middle of kansas and seeing where it goes

22:53Derrik Klassen: let's take jim thorpe and put him at uh ohio state yeah coming out of school or coming out of high school yeah my answer for this is always dan marino it's always going to be dan marino putting him on like this answer sucks because it's replacing like the coolest quarterback in the league right now but like him in the McVay offense like replacing Matthew Stafford obviously I wouldn't want to take him out but I think that would look incredible um so that he to me is always my answer of just like because we talked you you kind of said this Robert like oh if we're taking a guy from like back then could he hold up dude Marina Marino's arm could act like there's zero question

23:30Robert Mays: that dude could do it today those guys physically I mean it's not quite the same level of training than it is now, but like John Elway and Dan Marino in the modern NFL could survive. Like I had a few questions about that. Mine is so you Dave went as far away as he possibly could have in terms of time. Derek went like two generations ago. Mine is I'm shoehorning in current events and it's a very specific answer for a very specific reason. I want to go back to 2013, grab Levante David and put him on the current modern Dallas Cowboys so people could have an understanding of how good Levante David was.

24:08Robert Mays: Like, we're going to look back in 25 years, and Levante David is going to have made one Pro Bowl. He made, I think, three first or second team All-Pros. He had a career that he's going to be one of the all-time. If you do not watch him play, you will not understand people. And so I want to put him on the Cowboys simply because they have a needed linebacker, and he would be the most – it's the most visible team you could play for for an entire season. So I want 2013 Levante David to just play like seven primetime games this year before retiring again. So we could actually remember how good Levante David was.

24:43Derrik Klassen: Levante David as a cowboy would have been all pro like nine times, like whatever the record is for all pro. Like because he just would. Yeah, he would have had that benefit of playing for a team like that. That's every that's fun. Every sport has like someone whose numbers are just bonkers. But if you're not like a super like into the sport, you will see that like you might like know some of the other names like in top tens or whatever. You're like, who the hell is that? And there is a chance that like 25 years from now, like you see Levante David, like top of the league ever in like TFLs and stops and all this stuff.

25:15And people are like, I don't he played for the Bucks like what? They didn't do anything. Just crazy because they did win a Super Bowl with him. Yes. But that was eight years into his career.

25:24Robert Mays: Right. And he was incredible that season. But he was also incredible for all of the seasons in between that. he's also a victim of like there are also sometimes players at a position where it's like he was always the third or fourth best guy because there was always a luke keekly or fred warner or pat like who all these guys and it was like that guy somehow always gets forgotten and it's wrong because he was obviously incredible levante bobby wagner he played in an era with multiple hall of fame linebackers and in reality he is a hall of fame talent who likely will not make the hall of fame because of a lack of postseason accolades.

25:58Derrik Klassen: Levante David and Derek Brooks is a hell of a that's a hell of a duo for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I don't know how I'd have to spend some time looking how it stacks up, but getting those guys not all that far apart from each other is it's pretty nice.

26:13Robert Mays: It's a good linebacker history. I think the teams like the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Chicago Bears might have something to say about it.

26:18Derrik Klassen: But yeah, they also have like 80 extra years of history to fall back on.

26:24Robert Mays: All right, we're going to take our first quick break and then come back and get through a few more of your guys' questions.

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28:22Robert Mays: All right, Bella, what's the next one here? Okay, we're going to break the Robert-Derek-Dave cycle here just because the question that is on deck, I want Robert to take first. So this one we're going to go to Derek first. And speaking of breaking the cycle, Saint321 says, how does a team like the Cardinals actually break the cycle of being the Cardinals? It feels like bad teams stay bad because they are constantly resetting leadership scheme and timelines before anything has a chance to stabilize is there a real blueprint for escaping that tier long term or is it basically just get a top five qb and don't mess it up derek what do you got i don't even think it's that simple right like because there are plenty of other organizations who have had decent like chances at look at the jaguars i know the jaguars had a good uh they had a good year obviously last year but they were in the cycle of like in theory you go get the number one overall pick you get this guy who could in theory be this top five superstar quarterback but you are still the Jaguars and you like kind of nix yourself and like ruin this opportunity and he only ends up maybe not quite being that caliber of guy and so I think that can happen a lot and then these teams that get stuck in this cycle where it's like they're constantly moving the timelines or they don't know who they want to be they're throwing funny money around and stuff like that it often comes back to like the ownership deal is the same like the Jets have kind of always been stuck in this cycle because it's all the same ownership Cardinals are kind of in this tier and so I think you just have those issues based on like going all the way all the way to the top and I so long as the Cardinals are kind of operated under the same under the same regime and stuff I just don't know how that would change unless again you happen to draft the guy and he just happens to be Patrick Mahomes I think you can have transformational figures in your organization that are not the quarterback and that don't require an ownership change.

30:06Robert Mays: Like Sean McVay is one of those figures. Like nothing else about the Rams really changed. They moved to LA, but the ownership was the same. The GM was the same. And then after Sean McVay got there, the Rams became one of the best franchises in professional football. And I think coaches can do that. I mean, that's what we're hoping for in Chicago. Like nothing else changed. The GM's the same. The ownership is the same. But I think the right coach can really steer you in that direction. Kyle Shanahan is another one of those people. And then quarterbacks, I'm with you. I think there's some quarterbacks who can do it a little bit.

30:39Robert Mays: Like, I do think that Joe Burrow has been in ways like a transformational piece for the Bengals. And even the way they operate, I think he's been able to put his finger on the scale a little bit. But obviously, you need more around you as a quarterback, just like you said with Lawrence. Josh Allen and the Bills is a tough one because I think that McDermott and Bean were laying a little bit of a foundation before Josh Allen got there. And so those two things are kind of converging. when it comes to like wholesale how do you turn this thing around I do think the Lions are probably the best recent example but I think the underrated part about the Lions is along with getting Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell in there in the same year Sheila Fordham took that over I think in June of 2020 is when she took control of the team and so they fire Patricia and Bob Quinn like four or five months later.

31:26Robert Mays: They hire Chris Spielman that December is like a vice president, like a president and I think assistant to the chairman or something is what he was. And so there was a lot of change at the executive level for that team before they hired a new coach and GM. And so I think my answer is transformational figurehead coach or changing over ownership. I think those are the two options that get you out of that sort of rep.

31:50Derrik Klassen: I'm glad you brought up Sheila Ford Ham, because the other thing I would bring up to give her credit for is remember the very famous vote of confidence that she gave Dan and Brad Holmes like midway through 2022 they were still terrible like they were still not good and she came out and was like you know we had a vision for this we're sticking by it we're not changing and then they spent the second half of the season going on that run and it's been all uphill ever since. So I do think a couple of things like the, the uncomfortable thing that nobody wants to acknowledge because there's nothing you can do about it is ownership has such a heavy weight in all of this.

32:29And you have to, if, if ownership's not going to change,

32:34Derrik Klassen: you have to find something that is so overwhelmingly good that ownership can't screw it up. Or in the, in, in some cases, maybe ownership can at least have the patience to see it through. I feel like I bring this up a lot, but that's because I lived it as a fan. The other example I would point to is the Saints. I mean, the Saints were a disaster class of an organization. And on top of that, a natural disaster gave them like, I mean, it could have been an out for them to leave the city entirely. And then in one stretch of time, you hire Sean Payton, you convince Drew Brees to sign, which by the way, almost never happened because if the dolphins had been more interested in him, he never goes there.

33:19Derrik Klassen: And then a few months after you get drew Brees, you draft Reggie Bush, Roman Harper, Jari Evans, Zach Streif and Marcus Colston in one draft class. And you lay the foundation for a team that's going to be competitive and ultimately win a Superbowl like four years later. So even for an organization that's never experienced that and doesn't have the history of good decision making, you can still knock it out of the park to a degree that it's like almost undeniable. And the other interesting thing I would point out there is Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton weren't even brought in at the same time. Mickey Loomis was already there.

33:55Derrik Klassen: You hire Sean Payton from Dallas and I mean, it's lightning in a bottle. I don't know how realistic it is to think the Cardinals or any other organization are going to do it, but it is possible to do. And so the right hire and the right talent brought onto your roster, I do think it can overcome dysfunction. How realistic it is to hope for that, that's probably a different question.

34:19Robert Mays: You have two transformational figures at the same time there. If it takes one, the fact that they had two at the exact same time, all you have to do is hire one of those transformational head coaches and then stumble into the greatest free agent signing in the history of the sport. And so that's easy to do. I'm saying it's like it's not really a process. It's just like you kind of happen to hire a guy who's insane, which like you have to make that hire. But it's like it that doesn't feel like a step by step by step thing necessarily, whereas

34:47Derrik Klassen: like the Lions do feel like that, which and I was like going back to the Lions real quick, Rob, but I think like the Lions are a more I think that's something you can emulate a little more. Like I say this all the time, but it's worth remembering that Jared Goff was a salary dump. that's what he was when he got there. And then you draft enough other kick-ass players behind him, and you believe in the guys that you brought in, in Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes. And if you surround that guy with enough other badass talent, you can build a hell of a football team.

35:19Robert Mays: That is, by the way, this conversation that we're having about the type of coach you need to drag yourself out of this situation is why that if you're a team that is just completely down in the shit, I just it's hard for me to justify like some mid-tier retread head coach it's just so hard for me to justify I think that there are plenty of good arguments for retreads in specific situations but if you're one of these teams and you're shooting just for like let's just be competent for a little bit that to me even if you can find competency the chance that you find one of these transformational figures is just very, very low.

35:59What's the next one, Bellar? Okay, Dan Hula says, as a lifelong diehard Bears fan, I've gone through many phases of fandom. As a kid, I just enjoyed watching the games with my dad, diving into a pillow fort with a Nerf football and pretending to be, checks notes, Neil Anderson, which makes me and Dan roughly the same age. My teenage and college years turned me into a fanatic. Game watching was a social experience and a way to identify with not only friends, but the city of Chicago as part of my identity. It also involved the most alcohol and most pain because of how intensely I took every game.

36:29As I got into my 30s, I became more cynical and started noticing the cracks in the foundation, ownership, management, absurd local radio, more than the football itself. I live in Toronto now, I'm about to turn 40, and I just enjoy my 8-year-old becoming obsessed with the Bears. It's so much fun to share it with him, and the losses hurt less for me, partly because we finally have a fun quarterback. I feel like this is the pinnacle moment in my time in my Bears fandom, And I'm wondering what you all think is the best time along the human life spectrum to be a fan, or is it simply dependent on the team being good?

36:57Robert, what do you got here?

36:59Robert Mays: I think the team quality is hugely important, but I mean, me and Dan are very similar in age. And so I think I've lived a pretty similar sequence in the way that he has. My favorite time being a sports fan and being a Bears fan specifically was my teenage and college years. That was my favorite time rooting for the team. I think that it's two different things. I think that you're like an adult, so you have like adult thoughts, you know, like your brain works. You know how to you're interacting with it in the way that you would as you become a fully formed person. But you also have no responsibilities.

37:30Robert Mays: And so it can just completely consume your life in a way that's fun. I mean, my favorite year as a sports fan. So my freshman year of college, it was the 2006 Bears. They went to the Super Bowl. I was away from home. It allowed me to kind of feel close to home again. And I remember talking to my dad every Monday about those games. 2010, when they went to the NFC Championship game, was my senior year. And so high school all the way through college was hugely important. Eight years old, I think, is another really good time to be a sports fan. Like, that's when you become, like, a kid, right? Like, again, you know the stats.

38:01Robert Mays: You know the players. Like, our producer Scott, like, his son is, like, around that age. And you can feel, like, how cool it is to have a kid that's turning that age in the way that they interact with sports. And I assume, and I don't know this yet, but being a dad and being able to interact with a kid that is engaging with sports for the first time that way has to be hugely valuable. So I would sequence it like teenage or college when you first kind of have your consciousness awoken as a sports fan when you're like seven or eight years old. And then I assume being 40 with a kid that's that age or being 50 with a kid that's that age is really cool.

38:39Derrik Klassen: Those are the three I would guess. Do you think there's, and I mean, I'm, I'm not a father either, but being around Scott and his son during this past bears season was like, it was just special tangentially like to, you know, the, the bears Packers games and the way the bears won those games. And you're just like, man, experiencing that with like your eight year old son and watching him get hooked is gotta be the coolest thing in the world. So I think that is probably really special. I'll be it. I don't know myself from like personally and just from your, the way you digest the team as a fan, independent of anybody else.

39:18Derrik Klassen: It's gotta be when you're younger, I think, because everything you just said, Robert, like, obviously you don't have bills. You don't have a mortgage. You don't have any of other, other of that shit. And also you can still look up to these guys a little bit more as like super human beings. Like, I think you lose a little bit of that when you become older than these guys. And don't get me wrong. Like NFL players are still super human compared to like what I'm capable of. But at some point you start to feel a little weird, like worshiping what a 25 year old is doing on a football field. You're like, I'm almost twice your age and I'm trying to pay for a wedding and do all this other shit.

39:56Derrik Klassen: It just changes the way that you interact with the game. So, yeah, I would agree with you. like high school when you're, you know, you're rushing to school on Monday to talk to your buddies about what happened and like talk shit to your friend in the other class who is a fan of the rival team. I don't know that it gets a whole lot better than that. I will say, though, because the last part of Dan's question is, is it dependent on how good the team is? I was 30 when 2019 LSU won the national title and Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and Justin Jefferson. And I was 30 years old and that was still, I mean, it was, it was unlike anything ever.

40:36Derrik Klassen: And I, and it like, it put me into a different place. Like when, when the team is so good that you're like, what I'm seeing is historic and it will never get better than this, that all bets are off after that. Like you can enjoy that at a different level, no matter what age you are speaking from experience.

40:52Robert Mays: I mean, that was me and Bella with the 2016 Cubs, right? I mean, I was 29 when they won that World Series. Beller was probably 42, 43. 32. I turned 32 at the end of that season. But yes, I have unbelievable Mark Grace and Ryan Sandberg memories, but that is my favorite Cubs season, and I was 32 years old at the end of it. I don't have a whole lot here. I will say, I do think quality of team really does matter. I grew up in Florida, close enough to Gainesville, And so the 2006 to like 09 Chris Leak to Tim Tebow era Gators were when I was like nine to 12 years old. That was a really good time to be a Florida Gators fan.

41:33And that was incredible. Everything after that. Actually, I've often said this. The Gators, when they, there was something about the Will Muschamp teams where it was like you knew what you were going to be. Which was obviously after this period. It was after Urban Meyer where it was like, we're going to be a top five defense. All the defense is going to kick ass. everyone is kind of insane the offense is going to be like the 70th best in the country and we're going to hate our quarterback i knew what i was getting and i appreciated that they hired jim macklewain i am so sick dude they hired jim macklewain in 2013 and i was like they don't know what they want to be anymore it's over and they have like floundered as a college since then

42:11Derrik Klassen: highlighting that was kind of when i give up the will must champ gators because they had good linebacker play is insane like it's crazy those teams with like dom easily john bostick like don't take fowler john bostick my god dominic easily is my favorite gator of all time that guy was incredible that is insane especially like you just said i mean yeah oh six to like 2009 florida is like as special run no doubt yes they put like 60 guys in the nfl basketball championships in there too but no no no screw brandon spikes percy harvin and all these other guys i want to talk about john bostick bostick was solid and classing right there the thing is to dominic easily came out the same year as aaron donald and i was like that's they're the same

42:56Robert Mays: player and then obviously i thought mckeasley was going to be so good i thought he was going to be incredible dude he if his knees worked he would have been i appreciate dan's acknowledgement that also in when he was in college and those those bears teams like 06 2010 is when he was drinking during those games the most. My blood alcohol level by the end of the 2010 NFC Championship game after the Caleb Haney experience was I just can't even describe what state I was in after watching that game in a bar. It was a bad situation. So shout out to Dan. Shout out to Dan. Great question. Let's get to the next one here, Sean Kearney.

43:31I feel like every draft season, we hear the idea of drafting a tackle with the potential he could kick inside and play guard if needed. Are there any examples you can think of where this has happened and been considered is a success. It feels like most tackles taken early who don't work out don't end up having that second life. So why is it always seen as a potential benefit? Dave, you've been building the beast for a few months now. What do you got here?

43:51Derrik Klassen: So I wanted to qualify, or I wanted to see what y 'all thought about this. Are we including guys that move to guard before they ever play? Okay, we're moving to guys. That list is endless. I mean, there's so many examples of that. The list is endless. All right, but even still, thinking about this, I think Sean makes a good point. And that's, I think we talked about it on an episode of the show earlier this week, where like in the case of a Spencer Fano or even a Francis Maui Noah, if the guy might have to move to guard, is he ultimately worth like a top 10 draft pick? I think that's a very valid consideration.

44:29Derrik Klassen: Having said that, I thought of a few guys off the top of my head, like right within the last year or so, Kingsley Suamataia is playing better at guard than he did at tackle, where he was originally drafted. Makai Becton helped the Eagles win a Super Bowl at guard. Titus Howard, I think you could argue, is a better guard than tackle. And then this one, I'm cheating a little bit, but Tyler Smith could absolutely play either position and has. The Cowboys kicked him out to tackle because Tyron Smith got hurt in his second year, and he was good. He's a better guard, but he can do both. And when they drafted him, they weren't sure where they would play him.

45:07Derrik Klassen: So, yeah, I think it's not as good. Like the list of guys that move to guard before their career even starts is definitely so much better. But you can find examples of guys that have found success after moving inside for sure. And I would say to the point of the question, it's like there aren't a lot of guys who were just bad tackles and then went to guard and like turned it around. Like there are some like, you know, the Mekhi Becton example is a good one. There are a couple of examples of guys doing that. But usually it's like a King of Matai is a good example. Tyler Smith was obviously a really good tackle.

45:39Sam Cosme played right tackle early on in his career. He moved to guard. He's been kick-ass there. You mentioned Titus Howard. Justin Pugh also played tackle for a little bit in the NFL before mostly moving to guard for the rest of his career. And then I went back even a little bit further. Roger Saffold played tackle for the Rams for a while and then became like an awesome, awesome guard, especially during like those early McVay years towards the end of his career. So it's more often decent tackle gets moved to guard and then just becomes a monster than it is like a bad tackle moves to guard and has a career.

46:12But, you know, there are some examples like Tevin Jenkins, I thought, was a good guard. Once he moved there, it just like injuries and stuff kind of took it away. So there are some examples, but usually it's like capable tackle moves to guard and just becomes a pro bowler.

46:23Robert Mays: Yeah, I think it's abject failures. It doesn't happen that often. But I think, like Derek said, the guys that were just kind of like mad tackles moving to guard. I think there's enough examples where it doesn't feel like you're reaching or you're building a list of exceptions. Like, I had 10 names. I had Kingsley Sumataya, Sam Cosme, Alex Boone, Keleche Osemale, James Carpenter, Roger Saffold, Andrus Pete. It was never a good player in either position, but he was more functional at guard than he was at tackle. Mekhi Becton, and I also had Tevin Jenkins. And so there's a decent amount of examples.

46:58Robert Mays: But like to Dave's point, the list of guys who just immediately were college tackles and played guard, there's a lot of Hall of Fame players on that list. Like Zach Martin's on that list. Joel Batonio was one of those players. I wrote a story in 2015 about all of the guys playing guard in the NFL that were college tackles and how many positive examples there were of that. And so there's tons of those, but even guys who were allowed to fail, quote unquote, at tackle and moved inside, I think there are enough of those where you should be open to the process. All right, we're going to take one more quick break and then come back and hit a few more of your questions.

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49:01customer experience is where most organizations fail. Parloa's agentic CX platform helps enterprises move from experimentation to production. With the AI agent management platform for enterprise CX, companies can design, test, and orchestrate production-grade AI agents across customer service operations. The result, AI agents that turn customer conversations into lasting loyalty. Learn more at parloa.com. all right what's next one all right let's stay in the draft mindset we are approaching the draft after all el rocco 337 says during a discussion about fernando mendoza you all seem to say he could be the 12th best quarterback and the raiders should be happy with that level of production while i understand the sentiment didn't we just see this play out with miami and tua and arizona and kyler two and kyler were clearly better than any quarterback either of those teams could readily find as a replacement, but they weren't top-tier guys.

49:56Yet their teams still had to give out top-dollar contracts because they didn't want to head back into the quarterback wilderness. If you have a QB who is good but not great, eventually you find yourself in a Kobayashi Maru, that's a no-win scenario for people who haven't watched Star Trek, that includes me, Kobayashi Maru situation, where it comes time to pay your above-average quarterback elite money, and you either do it knowing you will regret it, or spin the roulette wheel. If the Raiders don't think he can ever be a top-five guy, Should they take Mendoza knowing his best case scenario is he's paid like a top five guy when he doesn't produce like that?

50:28Robert, why don't you take this one first?

50:30Robert Mays: Yes. What are you going to do? I think that there are the two a situation is that's a nonstarter to me. Like two was never a good quarterback. And so this idea that he was a top 12 quarterback is no, he never was a top 12 quarterback. I don't think he was ever an above average quarterback in the NFL. Kyler, if you put a very well-built team around 2021 Kyler Murray, while you were still paying Kyler Murray, not a lot of money, I think you can win the Super Bowl with that sort of team. I think they mean the Eagles are an example of this, like what they did with the Carson Wentz, Nick Foles combination.

51:07Robert Mays: I do think that in that rookie quarterback window, in that five years, you can absolutely build a Super Bowl winner around a quarterback that is a top 12 player. The Rams did this with Jared Goff. If Bryce Young was the 12th best quarterback in the league instead of the 22nd best quarterback in the league right now, we would probably talk about the Panthers as a team that could potentially win the Super Bowl. And so I think there are tons of examples. CJ Stroud is a player like this. Like if the rest of the Texans offense, if the offensive line was good enough over the last couple of years, would the Texans be a potential Super Bowl team?

51:44Robert Mays: I think absolutely the answer is yes. And so, yeah, are you going to be in a position when you get to the end of that contract that you're going to have to make a decision? 100%. But I also think there are teams that could have won the Super Bowl with Kirk Cousins on the contract that he was on. It requires you to do a better job building the rest of the team around the quarterback. You have way less margin for error after you pay the guy. But I think this type of process is significantly better than any of the alternative timelines. What are the alternative timelines? there just isn't one and I also think like with quarterback it's like I think we've gotten to a point where we kind of believe that 10 through 20 can be a little bit like amorphous just depending on the season depending on surrounding cast all that stuff but there is a line and like if your quarterback dips below that line you just don't have it and like paying for anything above that line even if you're not getting quote value for it like you're you know whatever that is the one position where paying for competency is the value.

52:44And so, you know, you've kind of said this before, Robert, like winning in the NFL is winning with a Ryan Tannehill. And the reality is that a Ryan Tannehill is the 12th best quarterback and you're paying him like the fifth best. I also think that like, it's not a guarantee that Mendoza is only the 12th best quarterback. He could be really good. I know that like myself and like others are not necessarily putting him quite in that elite tier of quarterback prospect, like maybe Joe Burrow when he came out or anything like that. But there is still absolutely a chance that a guy like that does turn into the sixth best NFL quarterback and so I still again you cannot pass I mean he could I mean I'm not saying that I believe that he is that good but like he is physically he's the prototype that is the one thing that I do think like people are kind of missing with Mendoza he's like 6 '5 230 runs pretty well and has an absolute cannon of an arm like he's built to play it in the way that you should be built Fernando Mendoza

53:37Derrik Klassen: loves LinkedIn and gives like dorky interviews. And so I feel like people have him conflated with some sort of like, I don't know, like wimpy choir boy or something. Like Fernando Mendoza is like a prototype sort of guy. Like, like we're not just compare him to the two dudes we're talking about. Like Tua, who's a pretty undersized guy who also had a major injury in college. And then Kyler, who's like a historical outlier among quarterbacks drafted that highly. that's not Fernando Mendoza. Fernando Mendoza is like he, he, it looks and is the part of a guy you draft number one overall. So I think that is a difference worth highlighting number one.

54:19Derrik Klassen: And then number two, I would just say, I know like some people aren't going to want to hear this because you get into a situation where like, like if we're not winning and competing for the Superbowl, what the hell are we doing? And that's the end goal. And I get that. But even in the case of Tua, where like a lot of people thought the deal was a bad idea at the time. A lot of people saw it coming. I think that's totally fair. And I get that it didn't look good in the playoffs. The Miami Dolphins still with Tua as their guy and like in the Mike McDaniel era. Nine and eight, 11 and six, eight and nine, seven and ten.

54:58Derrik Klassen: Like even the bad years are such a step up from where the Las Vegas Raiders have been for most of the last quarter century. Like with the exception of one and a half good Derek Carr seasons, Raiders fans should do anything to have that sort of success. Even if they never sniff the Super Bowl, even if they go to Kansas City and play in minus five degrees and like don't score any points like the Dolphins did. You should sign up for that every time if that's what Fernando Mendoza gives you, because that's what you get with a franchise quarterback. It wasn't as good for Arizona, but even at one point in Kyler Murray's career, the Cardinals like the first year he was good.

55:39Derrik Klassen: The Cardinals were six and three looking like a playoff team and they fell apart. And then the next year they were as good as 10 and two. We can have a whole conversation about Cliff Kingsbury. Is he a good coach? And does Kyler fade down the stretch? And that's all fair. that's another stratosphere from what we associate with like the modern day Las Vegas Raiders so you sign up for that every single time and hope that it can be better in the long run

56:03Robert Mays: if the if the Arizona Cardinals during the Kyler Murray experience stop drafting Smurfs at receiver and draft a single defensive player and play him in the right position like we might be having a different discussion about this we the Bo Nix is an ankle injury away from Bo Nix playing in the Super Bowl potentially and likely a few months ago. Jalen Hurts won the Super Bowl two years ago. Like it's I just think that there are more quarterbacks capable of winning Super Bowls and the spectrum of them, especially when they're not getting paid very much, is wider than we want to say it is. Derek, my question to you about this, I'm not going to let this Fernando Mendoza's sixth best quarterback in the league thing slip away simply because I think it's harder to be the sixth best quarterback in the league than you're making it out to be.

56:48Robert Mays: Is the path to Fernando Mendoza being the sixth best quarterback in the league him eventually becoming Dak Prescott yeah probably like that like him being like that style of quarterback that probably is the move and I think especially like when Dak was younger and he could move around a little bit more like that probably is like I was gonna say young Fernando's more mobile than Dak at this point in

57:10Derrik Klassen: his career I know Dak was pretty mobile as a younger player right like right now and like this this I'm helped a little bit by the time that like let's say this is all you want this to happen year three as it is with every young quarterback. Matthew Stafford's out of the league by that point. So that helps a little bit. But like, I guess more realistically, it's like seventh or eighth or ninth or something like that. But like, I do think that he can climb above 12th and it's not going to be like that. It wouldn't be that crazy. Like he's built, he is more physically impressive than a number of the other like elite quarterbacks right now, which like that's not all it boils down to, but he does have like more to him than some of the other guys.

57:42Derrik Klassen: Well, and to your point, Derek, if everything after the top four or five is nebulous, which I completely agree with, like I'm, I'm kind of done trying to rank it past the top four or five. I just don't even know if it's possible. Well, you better get on board when we do who's the sixth best quarterback in the league again, come June. You got it. My answer was the right one, by the way. It was, it certainly was. Uh, but like if Fernando Mendoza is the 12th best quarterback in the league on average, isn't it completely plausible that in a like for a year or two over the course of that career he plays like the sixth best quarterback i think that's completely reasonable and if he gets to

58:21Robert Mays: that general range by the end of his rookie contract then it becomes an even different discussion the 12th best quarterback making eight million dollars might as well be the fifth best quarterback if you look at the types of teams that have won super bowls over the last 15 years a hundred percent like exactly and i also think with with where got like with how quarterback development works like i don't think him being the 12th best guy by year three means that he'll be that forever like some guys age really well into 28 29 30 like it took what seven years for matt ryan to become what he became and obviously matt ryan was good before that and had other really good seasons but like to really crescendo like that uh is kind of what i mean i've used this phrase a lot when it comes to quarterbacks and coach said this to me and I keep I go back to it and it was right on the heels of Matthew Stafford winning the Super Bowl with the Rams and we were talking about what types of quarterbacks can win you Super Bowls and obviously having a blue chip quarterback is the most important thing and then having a red chip quarterback on a rookie contract was the second most valuable thing but the other bucket of quarterbacks that can get you there are the red chip quarterbacks who have those blue chip stretches or with the right things around them can feel like blue chip quarterbacks.

59:32Robert Mays: Matthew Stafford is one of those guys. Matt Ryan winning the MVP in 2016 is one of those guys. Dak Prescott is one of those guys. I'd make an argument that like the best years of Kirk Cousins felt like that. And it kind of seems like Fernando Mendoza could have like that shaped his career. And I will hit again the point of just think about how you would look at this year's Carolina Panthers. If Brock, if Bryce Young was the 12th best quarterback in the league. Just think about how you would project them moving into this season if that happened. Because to me, the way that they've been able to wield the rookie quarterback contract, the way that if you look at their draft and the way they built the team, it feels pretty middle of the road, right?

1:00:12Robert Mays: Like it feels like an average set of results for what their draft picks have turned into. It's not overly great. It's not overly bad. And they've been able to backstop just that average output in the draft by being able to wield the money that they have. And I think that if he was like the 12th best quarterback, I don't want to like offend anybody, but like if you dropped. Let's just let's just do this. If you dropped 2022 Kirk Cousins onto this year's Carolina Panthers and he was making Bryce Young's money, they absolutely would like we would talk about them as a potential team that could surprise people win the Super Bowl.

1:00:49Robert Mays: They would run away with the division. Yeah, they would say NFC South favorites without a doubt. Yeah, for sure. So I think that's what I would go back to. And I think that, again, the Texans are another good example of this. I think when you have to pay the guy, it's a different discussion. I get that, but I still think that if he's the 12th best quarterback, he is worth paying that sort of contract. And I also think that paying the 12th or 13th best quarterback and trying to figure out over the next three years if you can make the money work and all that stuff, that's a good problem to have.

1:01:20The problem with paying quarterbacks is when you're paying Daniel Jones after the Giants year that amount of money. That is when you get problems. But if you're paying quarterback 12 like quarterback 4, that's a good problem to have. You're obviously, again, not getting value for the contract, but you have a good player on hand. And quarterback 12 is somewhere between 8 and 12.

1:01:38Robert Mays: We just said that.

1:01:39Derrik Klassen: Exactly, yes. If you're worried about what you're paying for Nano Mendoza in 5 or 6 years, let's get him on the roster first. You had so much more success than anybody in our age range. I mean, when was the last time the Raiders were that consistently good? It was so long ago. And I think that matters too. Like the team in question, like if, I mean, if you're picking one overall and it's been that type of time since you've really had a franchise guy, what are we even doing? Yeah. Like I'm signing up for that every single time.

1:02:12Robert Mays: There's like a tier of quarterbacks right now that again, it's, they're not top five guys. They're probably somewhere in that, like six to 15 range that we've talked about or six to 12 that we've talked about. But if Fernando Mendoza is making whatever the market number is five years from now, let's call it. I don't even want to throw the number out there because it's going to cloud the conversation. If he's making market money five or six years from now and you put him in the same tier of guys that currently exist, that's Jordan Love, Dak Prescott, Brock Purdy, Trevor Lawrence, Jalen Hurts even, Jared Goff.

1:02:44Robert Mays: The quarterback contracts are not what is preventing those teams from winning the Super Bowl. They are making it harder that eventually it is going to get harder. Your margin for error increases, but it's not the reason that they're not getting there. And I also think that is the reason. Yes, exactly. That's the problem. When you dip below the line and are paying for it, that's the problem. But if they are above the line, yes, it does make it harder. But it's like there is value in having a guy that keeps you competitive every single year. So long as the rest of the roster is not like complete disaster mode.

1:03:16Like I know we just mentioned Lawrence, but like those rosters were horrible for a minute there.

1:03:19Robert Mays: All right. That is all we've got for today. For the rest of the week, we are just continuing to roll through our NFL draft coverage. Our second episode of On the Clock is going to be coming your guys' way tomorrow with our friend Jordan Reed from ESPN. We're going to be hitting picks six. Excuse me. We're going to be hitting picks seven through 12. The Washington Commanders are just over the moon with who is left on the board as we get to their spot on the clock tomorrow. They got Jeremiah Love still there. Caleb Downs is still there. Carnell, I don't know. Carnell Tate went to the Browns. So he is not there, but Jeremiah love is available to Washington at seven.

1:03:56Robert Mays: So we'll see if Jordan decides that's where he wants to send Jeremiah love building the beast. Going to be back your guys's way on Wednesday. And then a couple more draft shows coming later in the week, including the start of our positional breakdowns, which I always look forward to every single year for now. That is all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. Talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button. so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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