Nine players who can change their teams DNA

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0:43Derrik Klassen: Right now, get a free diffuser plus 20 % off select curated sets. Visit Pura.com to bring the season home. Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I am Dave Hellman, and today Derek Classen and myself are previewing our 2026 DNA Changers, guys who have the potential to change the way their units feel in this upcoming 2026 season. Let's get right into it.

1:21Derrik Klassen: All right, it's DNA Changers today, Derek, and Robert's been reminiscing about our shows over the last week or so. This one holds a special place in my heart because I think it was the first episode we did last summer while he was on his training camp tour. Very much just welcome to the show, Dave. Go do a show with Derek. We'll see. We'll feel each other out in the moment. And a year later, I feel so much more comfortable and so much more ready to tell you that your takes are trash.

1:49Dave Helman: which is you know some of some of the ones we picked last year were we were talking before the show that like some of our picks were I think I had brought up Talanoa Hufanga Andre Greenlaw together which like Hufanga sure Greenlaw like did not play and was immediately kicked out of out of Denver basically so this is the show to be like no that guy you know maybe he's not going to

2:07Derrik Klassen: change the DNA of this team yeah I think I said um I had Hassan Redick as one down in Tampa which didn't age particularly well. I think we did rookie Amari and Hampton last year, which some of that was injury. I'm perfectly fine betting that that's going to be right eventually. But no time like the present to revisit guys who we think are going to change what their units do on each side of the ball. Before we do that, though, was a pretty big day for news in the NFL before we started recording, particularly contract news. Early on Tuesday morning, we get word that Bajon Robinson finally gets his long-awaited contract in Atlanta.

2:46Derrik Klassen: He gets a three-year extension worth up to$75 million, up to always does a lot of heavy lifting in those conversations. But at least on a per-year basis, Bajon Robinson currently the highest-paid running back in the league, at least. And we'll see what happens with Jameer Gibbs because that's the next domino there. And then a couple hours after that, Zay Flowers gets a four-year$140 million extension in Baltimore. Flowers was the second one to happen. I also just I think it's more interesting, honestly, like I don't really know how many people were surprised about Bajon Robinson. I think the Zay deal caught people a little more off guard.

3:28Derrik Klassen: And it's also just a really fun conversation about the state of the receiver market. What was your initial impression when you heard about Zay?

3:37Dave Helman: My initial impression was either Drake London is underpaid or Zay Flowers is overpaid and whichever whichever direction you want to go with that is totally fine um this like if i'm drake london i'm a little because i think drake london his average is like 35.25 million and zay's is closer to like 35 so it's like they're making almost or maybe 40 whatever it is he's making a quarter million dollars more a year than zay flowers is i think drake london is significantly better than a quarter million dollars more than than zay flowers every year but Zay Flowers I think is in a weird spot too where the Ravens kind of had to pay him like they really had no other option he is clearly their best receiver um and he's still very young and I think he did get better last season like I anybody who listens to this show and my entire time being on here complained a lot about Zay Flowers especially the first two years of his career about like man can we just run forward when we have the football and I do think that he actually got a little bit better with that last year.

4:33Dave Helman: I still just think that he's, I think, in an ideal world, more of like a really high-end number two type of receiver. So to see him get paid at the top of the market, like it's obviously incredibly good for him. But I think this says a lot more about like, he's just the most recent receiver to get paid. And if anything, I'm just kind of shocked that his number got as close to Drake London as it did.

4:55Derrik Klassen: So I have a couple of thoughts and if you've listened to the show I think over the course of this year Zay Flowers has come up a few times as an example of this situation where the receiver market is out of control the next guy up is gonna get 35 plus million dollars and Zay Flowers somewhere along the line kind of becomes the poster child of well is that right like should you be paying Zay Flowers that much or are we reaching a breaking point with some of these receiver salaries a pardon the pun but to give zay flowers his flowers i definitely didn't realize until this summer zay flowers was fifth in the league in yards per route run last year like he was a very productive receiver and in an offense where just by virtue of who they have and what they do he's going to get fewer opportunities with the football than some of these other guys that are near the top of the market.

5:52Derrik Klassen: I mean, JSN sets the market this year. Puka Nakua is whenever that happens is going to be in that neighborhood as well. I think in this offense, considering those things, he is trending in the right direction to make me comfortable with this. And then the key part for me, Derek, is the Ravens got this done as quickly as they did. And I think it's important to note 140 million is a lot of money. $35 million a year over the course of the extension is a hefty salary, that doesn't kick in for two more years because not only is Zay about to start his fourth NFL season, his option's already been picked up.

6:31Derrik Klassen: So the Ravens are tacking this on to two years of his rookie deal. And when you view it in light of that, I just think it's a lot easier to process. It's a lot easier to digest. And by the time Zay Flowers even begins his extension, who the hell knows what's going to happen And that pushes him down the board and makes this look like a much more tolerable contract.

6:54Dave Helman: I think that's a good point. And also the JSN contract, bringing that up. Like he, this is not a situation where like, you know, with quarterbacks for the longest time, it was like if quarterback 11 got paid, he literally was resetting the market. There being a seven and a half million dollar difference between the literal top of the market at receivers per year with JSN and Zay Flowers, like that's not nothing. Like that is clearly a gap in what the league thinks like that you are paying like a truly elite elite number one versus being a pretty good receiver who gets being the next guy paid so ultimately I think I it's still like if I'm paying that amount of money for a receiver I think I would have liked a little bit more and for it to be a different style of player but for the where the Ravens are at I think it's like a perfectly acceptable deal I think there's a there's a

7:40Derrik Klassen: larger conversation that's been percolating in my brain for a while at this point about and receivers clearly so valuable, but there are so many good ones coming into the league. At what point are you better off fishing in the draft for the cheaper player as opposed to paying this sort of contract for somebody like Zay Flowers? But the swiftness with which they got this done and having all of those years to spread this out, on top of the fact that I think it's at least plausible that Zay Flowers has more ceiling left to reach, I feel fine about it even if I've been critical of Zay in particular over the last three or four

8:18Dave Helman: months like this doesn't really bother me I will say if anything my other response to this was like I think it's crazy to me and I know that we've done this for a long time with like running back value versus wide receiver value it's but it's crazy to me that Bajon Robinson is going to make 10 million dollars less per year than Zay Flowers Bajon Robinson is second in the NFL in scrimmage yard since he entered the league. He led the league last year overall.

8:42Derrik Klassen: Okay, switching over to Bajon, I just wanted to read off some of my favorite Bajon stats. He leads the league in scrimmage yards over the last two years. He is fourth in the league in explosive plays over the last two years behind Derrick Henry, Jameer Gibbs and JSN. 52 explosive runs, 18 explosive receptions over the last two years leads all backs in that stretch of time. And he leads the entire league in first downs from scrimmage by a pretty comfortable margin. Like he's got 11 more than Derrick Henry over the last two years. Like I know$22 million a year is a lot to pay a running back. I'm not blinking at this whatsoever.

9:22Derrik Klassen: And I agree with you, dude. If you're talking about the very special sorts of running backs like Bajon Robinson, I really feel like we're getting to a point where I feel more comfortable paying that salary to a guy like Bajan than paying 30 plus million dollars to like a top 12 wide receiver. Like it feels like that balance is starting to shift in my opinion.

9:46Dave Helman: That's exactly where I'm at. And like, again, I think if we're talking about the elite receivers, like Jamar Chase should make more than what, like that's, I think, a completely different discussion. But I think when we're talking about any of the skill players who like, you can truly build the offense around this guy. Like Zay Flowers is a really good player. I don't think you want to say like, we're building the ship out of Zay Flowers. But John Robinson is the opposite of that. He is an offense unto himself. He is explosive plays. He is a really high efficiency runner, despite I think the offensive line like falling apart a little bit last year.

10:20Dave Helman: Like he saves them from negative plays. So he keeps doing good downs and distances. He's incredible on passing downs. You can actually legitimately split him out like a wide receiver if you want to he's explosive when he catches screens and and short passes like he is he's just an exceptional football player and and one of the handful of guys at that position where you truly can build a ship around him like it's I mean it's probably what three four guys like it's like him Gibbs McCaffrey and like Saquon Barkley at his best and even that I don't think he's quite the pass catcher that a guy like Bajon or CMC are I was gonna throw in Saquon just by

10:55Derrik Klassen: virtue of the fact that he's the only other$20 million running back in the league right now. It's now Bijan, Saquon, McCaffrey is right below them at 19. I would imagine we're going to hear the Jameer Gibbs updates any day now, any hour now, potentially. I saw Brad Holmes was asked at Lions camp after the Bijan news came out, if this would help. And he said, yeah, that usually expedites situations like this. So we'll, we'll keep an eye on that. Jonathan Taylor, I think, is probably angling for a pay raise as he's in the last year of his deal. So this landscape could shift really, really quickly after this Bajon Robinson deal, but not batting a single eyelash at that news coming out of Falcons training camp.

11:39Derrik Klassen: All right. That is the most pertinent news of the day. Let's jump into the show itself. We're doing DNA changers. I'm going to throw it to you, man. Who you got first?

11:49Dave Helman: I'm going to start with Jawan Jennings for the Minnesota Vikings. And this is, I think I've been obviously the easy one would be like what Kyler Murray might look like with this offense, but I didn't pick any quarterbacks. Jawan Jennings though is extremely different from any number three receiver that Kevin O 'Connell has typically had. Like when we think back to a handful of years ago, it was KJ Osborne for a little bit and he's not like tiny, but he was a little bit more of the smaller guy he was a guy who was um mostly in the slot he was used a lot on like mesh concepts and stuff he was really more of like an underneath kind of yak like dirty work guy then the last couple years they had jaylen naylor who was not featured a ton in the offense but was like a vertical slot player for them um aligned in the slot so this is where it gets really different jaylen naylor was on outside like he was aligned outside according to fdn only 41 percent of the time and i think even a lot of the times he was lined up outside it's like tight-ish stacks and he's not really like playing as the number one.

12:46Dave Helman: Jawan Jennings, by contrast, was out wide 70 % last year. And again, that's a little bit like fudged by the fact that a lot of the 49ers plays are a little bit tighter, like they play a little bit tight formationally. Very condensed, yeah. It's very condensed, but he's still allowed to be like a number one on the ball receiver in a way that Jalen Naylor just really hasn't. And why I think that's important is that for the last handful of years, we've had Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison have to do a lot of the big boy work and really be outside or if they're going to try to get them in the slot or something like that it's got to be these condensed formations now the fact that they have Juwan Jennings who can live outside he can live as the slot guy he can kind of move wherever I actually think it opens up a little bit more opportunities for them to get a little bit more creative with Justin Jefferson for them to get a little bit more creative with Jordan Addison and be able to access I think different types of concepts it's funny you

13:37Derrik Klassen: bring him up because when I was looking through guys I wanted to highlight for this show I thought about Jawan Jennings like he's obviously a major acquisition for a team with a really interesting offense the quarterback uncertainty between the fact that as of right now even if it's lip service it's officially a quarterback competition in Minnesota and then just not really knowing what to expect of Kyler in this offense, it makes it it makes it hard to forecast. It makes it hard for me to see like what what's your ideal vision for what this might look like? And let's just assume for the purpose of this that it is Kyler Murray.

14:16Derrik Klassen: I think that's the easy, logical conclusion to come to.

14:20Dave Helman: Yeah, I think for me, it's a couple of things. One, Jawan Jennings, I think when he first started to break out was really like a big slot and he would be a guy who just like ran over the ball and stuff like that. And he is pretty good at that. But I think last year what we saw a lot with the offense when he had to, where he could be a little bit more of an outside receiver and run a lot of these outbreakers, like that's actually one of Purdy's best throws. It's just that like 10 to 15 yard, just like throw it outside the numbers, pin it on the sideline. Juwan Jennings, I think is pretty good at those.

14:47Dave Helman: And that's some of what Kyler Murray does best. Like he is a whole part of the issue in Arizona is that he didn't always throw the middle of the field the way that he wanted to, but he's always been able to rip a lot of those outbreakers. And I do think that Juwan and Jennings gives you a lot of that type of stuff. I also think that compared to Jalen Naylor, like Naylor had to be used in specific ways. Like, again, I think he was like a speed slot guy. You could kind of throw some screens to him if you want. If you could get him running, that was great. But he was just not a credible threat on his own.

15:16Dave Helman: Like if he was left to the backside on a concept. Whereas I don't think that that's true of Juwan Jennings. I actually think you can do that. I was looking through a bunch of his plays yesterday with about seven minutes to go in the third quarter against the Colts. He's just inside the numbers to the left-hand side for the offense, all by himself to the left-hand side. He runs this little hesitation dig route, and Purdy throws it to him. It's a totally fine route, but because he's a much bigger target, and he can actually do a little bit of threatening, like running down the middle of the field once he has the ball, and running through tackles in a way that Jalen Naylor can't.

15:53Dave Helman: I think it just gives him this credible threat, again, as an isolated receiver where let's just try to push this forward and envision it in Minnesota. If you go put him on one side and now you create a stack with Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison, buddy, good luck trying to cover that if that's something that they can do pretty consistently. And so I just think that he gives them a little bit more flexibility and the idea of we can just line this guy up by himself and we can throw it at the sticks and he can probably make a play for us.

16:22Derrik Klassen: how, how genuinely worried are you about the call it cliche, call it meme. But I mean, Kyler Murray is 5 '10". And like the middle of the field becomes a problem for a guy like that. Like how much does that concern you with this Minnesota offense? And with three receivers, I mean, one to three, this is one of, if not the deepest receiver cores in the NFL, but you have to have a guy that can unlock every part of the field.

16:50Dave Helman: You do. And I would like if he was able to throw that part of the field. But again, I just it's never really been a part of the field that he throws consistently well. And I think if they're going, I think the difference that I would say is what I'm hoping what the offense looks like is a lot of last year. They would use Naylor as this like stretcher. And then an Addison would also kind of be like a downfield stretcher. And then they would try to get Justin Jefferson open in that intermediate area. I actually think now that Jennings can be a little bit more of your he's running some of your digs he's running some of your over the ball routes that sort of thing it actually opens you up to like run Justin Jefferson on some more of those posts and really unleash him down the field in a way that I just don't think that they were allowed to do in the offense really last year and so I think it's again it's they're going to start targeting different areas than O 'Connell really ever has and so that might run into some issues but I think the quarterback is talented enough and if Jennings still has some juice like the receiving core is kind of too good to fail, I think, even if it's an imperfect construction of the offense.

17:51Derrik Klassen: I hope this is all true. My hope for what the Vikings could be versus my fear of what they might be in reality is it's ever present in my mind as we work through trading camp. So for the purposes of this, I know there's a tendency on our part to look for hipster choices, look for guys that people might not be thinking about. If we're talking about DNA changers, I'm going with heavy hitters, man. Like if we're talking about guys that are going to make teams feel different when you watch them, I'm not going to overthink it. And my first name, the first guy I thought of when I thought about this exercise is a guy that we're both really high on.

18:33Derrik Klassen: And that's reek woolen in Philadelphia. Hmm. Excellent answer. Yeah. Stop me. If you're like, if you're surprised, sorry, that's not unheralded enough for you. But when you're talking about a guy that's going to come in and change the dynamic of everything they want to do, it's not hard to see. Rick Woolen has played thirty five hundred and eighty nine of his career. Thirty nine hundred and eighty nine defensive snaps out wide at cornerback. Ninety percent of the time he's out wide on the formation playing corner, worrying about locking up his guy. And that is, that was the Eagles biggest problem last year was cornerback to how they coped with a Dory Jackson and all of those other guys not being very good at it was one of the defining problems with their defense.

19:24Derrik Klassen: So what do you do? You go get reek woolen on a friendly contract to handle that. And they are going to look completely different for no reason other than that. Cooper to gene no longer has to worry about bouncing inside and outside, depending on the personnel that they're playing with. Like Reek Woolen, when they're in nickel, is going to be playing boundary corner when they're in nickel, which was 75 % of the time last year. Cooper to Gene is going to be in the slot. And if he moves around at all, I would imagine it's going to be back to safety, if anything, which only helps to make the spine of your defense stronger.

19:59Derrik Klassen: So when you're talking about a team or a unit that is going to feel completely different because of one guy, I really feel like the Eagles are our poster boys with this will in addition this one's great because I think

20:13Dave Helman: sometimes when we think about DNA changers it's going to be like attitude or how the team feels or whatever it's going to be but I think with him it's very obviously like a schematic change the the Eagles played I mean Fangio likes cover six that that in cover eight that's always been part of his thing where you play cover two to one side but they played even more of it last year because the cornerback two was just could not play and so they were like we're gonna play cover two to Adoree Jackson's side or whoever was playing quarterback to that day. And we're going to let Quinian Mitchell lock up one-on-one on his side.

20:44Dave Helman: And that's how we're going to play. And they'll still do some of that with Tariq Wollin, obviously, because that's a coverage that they like. But the Eagles actually also did play a lot of like one-on-one man coverage last year. And I do think now that you bring in Tariq Wollin, that I think is some of his best stuff. I think he's actually a really, really good press corner and a guy who is really good at like, for a guy who's his size, surprisingly good at like being able to sink his hips, drive with dig routes and really able to flip his hips and keep up with like the vertical stem of receivers so I just think that this is a defense where one it's going to feel better just because Marieke Wallen is a significantly better coverage player than anybody they had last year but I actually do think it could let them play more like match quarters cover one type of stuff and just literally say like hey our three cornerbacks are better than every wide

21:29Derrik Klassen: receiver trio we're going to see let's just let them play I don't think of the Eagles as this crazy man heavy team the way that we talk about like the Browns under Schwartz or the Broncos at times but to your point they ran man 31.5 % of the time last year which was a top 10 rate like their will they were willing to do it plenty with a glaring weakness at corner Tariq Woolen say what you will about the occasional penalty and some of the discipline errors. Tariq Woolen, among cornerbacks with 200 plus coverage snaps last year, had the 11th best completion percentage against at 51 and a half percent.

22:10Derrik Klassen: He's second in the NFL in past breakups over his four years in the league behind Denzel Ward. Some of the concerns are very valid. He's a really good football player. He could have signed somewhere else for a lot more money. And if the Eagles are like, if they play a shitload more man because of what they have in their top three, I yeah, that seems like it's firmly on the table.

22:33Dave Helman: and I will say too I think that's an interesting one because so much of like the defensive revolution has been all the the cover six Fangio stuff light box all that stuff play a bunch of zone do some rotations I actually do wonder if we get back to a world where teams are more just like well we're kind of sick of whatever the offensive whatever the offensive answer to some of this stuff might be and they're just going to say hey we're just going to man you up and dare you to beat us we're going to load up with like our incredible corners and I do wonder if with the Eagles being what they are it would be a kind of a departure from what we think of Fangio but him maybe them just leaning into like 40 % man coverage and just being like a race car front with all their pass rush stuff like I don't think that that's like really off the table I think that they could

23:15Derrik Klassen: absolutely play like that it's easy to imagine they're just not being any space in the passing game when you play against these guys and having that solid option at CB2 like it's it's one guy but I think it could make all the difference in the world for taking what was already a pretty good defense by the way back up to the level we saw in 2024 all right those are our first two DNA changers we got plenty more first we're going to take a quick break you know that hoodie you can't stop reaching for the one that feels like a second skin soft warm and somehow makes you feel a little more grounded I found it and trust me it's not what you expect it's called PAKA spelled P-A-K-A And if you're tired of hoodies that stretch out, pill, or feel heavy, this is the upgrade you've been waiting for.

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28:08Dave Helman: All right, Derek, who's your second DNA changer? I'm going to go one that is like a DNA return to form, I guess you could say. But I'm going to go with Oso Odigizua going to the San Francisco 49ers.

28:20Derrik Klassen: Oh, I thought about this. I had him on my shortlist for sure. Walk me through it.

28:24Dave Helman: For me, it's just, and I know Raheem Morris is calling the plays. It's not D 'Amico Ryans. It's not Robert Sala. But I think Kyle Shanahan has kind of always wanted just a four down attack front. And I assume that that's a lot of what they're going to be. this their defense has always worked when they've had defensive linemen whether it's at defensive end or defensive tackle that can get in the backfield and like they can slant they can cut across the guard's face and they can really get vertical penetration also diggy zua can do that and i don't think anybody that the niners had last year were able to do that like i think cj west struggled a little bit as a rookie to do that uh and then kalia davis and jordan elliott are like nice rotational pieces to have but they were just playing a ton of snaps and just not that like first line quality of guy that I think Odigizua has been.

29:09Dave Helman: You know, he hasn't made a Pro Bowl yet, but I think we would probably all agree that he's a player who has that level of talent and maybe just it hasn't all come together for him necessarily in terms of the stats or whatever. But this to me just feels like a defense that always does its best work when they are creating a mess for Fred Warner and for the safeties to just fly down and solve. And I do think that Odigizua is a player that can give that to them in a way that, again, they just did not really have along the interior last year.

29:37Derrik Klassen: Per PFF, Oso Digizua had 52 pressures last year, which was 11th, I think, among interior players. 60 the year before that. So, like, since he's really come into his own and earned the contract extension Dallas gave him before the trade, he has consistently proven an ability to be disruptive in the backfield. I would say, not that he's, like, a bad run defender, but that's what he does. Like, that's what you want from Osa Odigizua. And him landing in San Francisco, where that's been such a big piece of their scheme over the years. And I know, like you said, they're going through a change this year, but over time, that's been what they prefer.

30:18Derrik Klassen: And I think when you trade assets like you did for a guy like Osa, it's with a pretty clear mental image in mind.

30:26Dave Helman: Exactly. It's like he's not going to necessarily eat a double team and allow your players to come through that way. But he's going to get into the backfield often enough and be quick enough that sometimes he can just split a double team before a guy really gets to him. Or a play that I actually went back, I watched some of his run stops. It was the second play of the game, I think, against Green Bay. He's lined up over the right guard, and the right guard pulls away from him to the left side, and the tight end that way also goes over. It's a counterplay. He sees it so fast and just runs straight to the guard's ass, trying to get into the backfield.

30:58Dave Helman: and he beats the center who's trying to work back and like back block him and he gets into the backfield it's a tackle for loss he just gives this front that kind of disruption in a way that I just again we really did not see from the San Francisco 49ers last year and so I think you get him into the fold hopefully Alfred Collins takes a step you have Mikel Williams coming back you have Nick Bosa coming back I actually think some of their other edge defenders are decent as like depth pieces and if they can be depth pieces instead of starters like they were last year I think that that could help like it's not that hard for me to picture a world where this is like a

31:33Derrik Klassen: pretty scary front once again Keon White is still hanging out in San Francisco I know Romello height had like a training camp injury the other day but I don't believe it was anything serious like I we mentioned it on a previous show between Michael Williams and Alfred Collins those guys getting as many snaps as they did as rookies it's an optimistic view of it because they have to continue that trajectory, but it's exciting to think about what it could be. And like I said, team like San Francisco, that's gotten some big time production out of defensive tackle. And I would guess, you think it's fair to say, I mean, they've been looking for it ever since DeForest Buckner.

32:12Derrik Klassen: Like they've had guys have success on and off at times, but not that good as consistently as when they had DeForest Buckner.

32:20Dave Helman: A hundred percent. I mean, even it was what, 23? they signed Javon Hargrave and he gave them like good play for a little bit but they have really been searching for oh Diggie Zua I think is a younger player that they hope can be here for the next three four or five years they probably want to give him like they want him to be here for the for the long term and to be that Buckner ish type of answer he's probably like a tier down in terms of that quality of player but he at least gives them the amount of juice that they just really have not had at that position in a while yeah I'm I'm reluctant to invoke DeForest

32:53Derrik Klassen: Spuckner for anybody but we could be cooking with gas here I like this a lot all right my next one I'm just I'm outright cheating a little bit Derek because this guy's not necessarily new to his team but I still think it's worth highlighting because if you look back on it we didn't actually get to really see what sauce Gardner would mean for the Indianapolis Colts last year like we made a big deal about the trade and he played in the Germany game against Atlanta and then all hell broke loose for Indianapolis and sauce had a calf injury Charverius Ward was dealing with concussion issues Daniel Jones gets hurt and by November December of last year Philip Rivers was the main storyline in India and nobody cared about the all-pro cornerback that the Colts had just traded for.

33:47Derrik Klassen: So I think it's worth revisiting in the optimistic light of August, what sauce Gardner could mean for this team. And I think it's, again, we, we don't, we can do all of that at another time. Like, I don't know if the trade was the right call. And I don't know if sauce will ever play up to the level of giving up two years worth of ones. But now that he's here, having this caliber of cornerback, along with having Charverius Ward healthy, hopefully, and letting Luana Rumo played a shitload of man coverage on the outside, I think could be transformative for the Colts defense in the short term. I don't know if it justifies things in the big picture, but here in training camp, I think this is worth highlighting.

34:30Dave Helman: I mean, it absolutely is. And again, it's funny that we go to another team that like, if this corner works out for them, they can just run a shit ton of man coverage. It's just funny.

34:37Derrik Klassen: It's very, I had a one track mind early going with

34:41Dave Helman: these corners but I do think that that could be like again I think we've talked about so much about like how teams are doing all this stuff with motion and yada yada yada but I in the heart of hearts of every defensive coordinator they're like dude if I could just run man every play I would do it and that's why teams like this trade for a sauce gardener and so if you could if you can get him back and he plays like 99 95 percent of who we think he is same thing with Charverius Ward like this does instantly become one of the I think like best like true just run with you uh one and two cornerback punches in the league and they're gonna need that because i think that there's a lot of other questions on this defense but if they're confident that whoever is lining up on the outside against them just is not gonna get free targets i do think that that goes like quite a long way

35:23Derrik Klassen: for this team sauce played three legitimate snap counts for the colts because he played a fourth game but i think it was against houston late last year he played two snaps and was done for the day And one of his three games was against Jacksonville the day after the Colts had been eliminated. So it's not an exaggeration to say we didn't get to see much of what the Colts were hoping for when they did this deal in the first place. And yeah, man, I mean, we know we know what Lou Anarumo wants to do in a perfect world. And actually, I mentioned the Eagles playing 31 percent man last year. The Colts played 31 % man last year, which is kind of on the low end for a lot of Lou Anarumo's time dating back to the Bengals.

36:11Derrik Klassen: Like when he has the horses to do it, Lou Anarumo would love to play a shitload of man coverage. He also loves to blitz, by the way. And so if having two corners that he doesn't have to worry about is the solution to not feeling great about your pass rush and not feeling great about a lot of the other pieces of your defense. I like I see the vision here and then I think it could really work by the way so you kind of think

36:37Dave Helman: the vision too for them is like a little bit more like five man maybe six man pressure just play a ton of man coverage it's funny that we're gonna live in Jim Schwartz's world again and he's like

36:45Derrik Klassen: not in the league you I mean go go with what works right and like I mean the very clear strength of your team DeForest Buckner is worth mentioning by the way speaking of him still in Indianapolis but But if you're worried about your ability to consistently get home, just rushing for, and we'll see, certainly not giving up on Lea Tulatu being a player who continues to ascend, but that's the best piece of this defense. And so trusting those guys to hold it down while you get goofy with it, and Lou Anarumo likes to get goofy with it, by the way, that might be the best path forward. This is also how I remembered, by the way, Derek, that Kenny Moore is still looking for a team.

37:33Derrik Klassen: I think I was on my honeymoon when all of that went down. So it's going to be Justin Wally in the nickel, it sounds like for Indianapolis, which is a guy that they have a lot of confidence in last year, didn't really have much of a rookie season. I'd feel a little bit better if Kenny Moore was part of this, but mainly I was, I'm just, I'm waiting to see where he winds up because he's far too good to be waiting for a new team unless he just doesn't really feel like having a training camp.

37:57Dave Helman: yeah and I mean again he's an older player and so if he didn't want to have a training camp I would totally get that I do wonder too like how much yeah he's obviously plays like a madman but I do wonder how much at this stage in the offseason teams are thinking about like we talked so much about wanting to get bigger at the nickel and stuff like that and he's just not that size of a guy and you wonder like how much is he going to be able to hold up at his size like you never know but I I'm still kind of shocked that he doesn't have a team right now all right let's keep it pushing who you got next i'm gonna go back to the defensive line i've actually even got another one that we'll do after this um but i'm gonna go with a player that actually kind of did a little bit of a dna change in the middle of last season but that's draymond jones uh he was pretty good for

38:42Derrik Klassen: the titans early on in the year we were on the same wavelength today i yeah i didn't put him on

38:48Dave Helman: my list but i i debated it but i'm i'm ready to hear more please he i mean i think we saw proof of concept of what he can do in terms of changing the DNA just last season where I think the Ravens were a team that struggled with what they wanted to be on the edge did not have as many guys that I think were like pocket pushers and crushers as that team has typically had which which definitely felt kind of weird but Draymond Jones is like 275 pounds or not 275 he's probably closer to like 265 270 but he can push the pocket a little bit he's got enough he's not just one of those like big stiffs either like he actually does have a little bit of juice and bend around the edge but he's going to give this Patriots team I think compared to a guy like Kalevon Chason a little bit more stoutness on the edge he's going to give them the ability to like you can line him up over a guard and you can run some games you can line him up over the center and do some weird stuff whereas I think with Chason even though he had a pretty good season you're just betting on him being faster than guys you're betting on him being quicker and betting on him being able to bend and he can do that but Jones I think goes a little bit back more to what I think Vrabel wants to do which is like we're gonna beat the shit out of whoever we're playing and i do think that

39:55Derrik Klassen: draymond jones gets there draymond jones reminds me you're not you were never really a wrestling guy derrick or were you a little bit when i was younger actually so this depends where you're going yes you remember like the hardcore matches like the street fights where all the weapons are all under the ring that's draymond jones to me we're like like draymond jones is pull out the garbage can wrapped in barbed wire and start smashing people with it, which I really love. And the reason I wanted to highlight Draymond Jones when I was prepping is I feel like there's two types of DNA changers. One is a player who is, he's so good and his skillset is so obvious that it's just going to change things for the unit.

40:37Derrik Klassen: The other one is just like a guy who so clearly reflects what his coach wants his unit to be. And I really love the fact that I'd go as far as to say, Caleb on chase on was as good as you could read. Like he, he blew his expectations out of the water last year. He was so good relative to the size of the deal and the amount of fanfare that he got. And Mike Vrabel was still like, ah, give me the guy that's going to bash people with the trash can. Like that's what we're all about here with the Mike Vrabel Patriots.

41:07Dave Helman: And, and I love it. And I also think this, this is even not just a Mike Vrabel, like attitude of the team sort of thing. I actually think it does lean a little bit into what Zach Kerr, the defensive coordinator who took over last year, kind of wants to do with his defense and started to show. Like, I thought the second half of last year, they did a lot of like getting into weird fronts and bringing some of these weird blitzes and playing a lot of games up front. And again, I think a guy like Draymond Jones gives you a little bit more flexibility and oomph there in a way that Chazon did not. Like, I think if you have a guy like Draymond Jones who can line up over the guards and be kind of weird, like it gives you some flexibility to like, do we want to do the Fletcher Cox thing and put Milton Williams on the edge a little bit and have some of these weird packages?

41:50Dave Helman: Like, they also have Eliza Ponder on the edge, who I think is one of those weird, like, kind of a bigger masher body, but can drop into coverage a little bit when they want him. Like I just, this is a front to me that now feels explosive. It feels mean and it feels flexible. And I'm like, I think that they could be even better than they were last year. And I thought that they were a pretty good defense down the stretch.

42:10Derrik Klassen: I think Elijah Ponder is the honorary, like he's already an all pro in the minds of our discord users. If you go, please, if you haven't, if you're listening, if you want to chat ball with some ball knowers, go sign up for our discord and you can also join the Elijah Ponder fan club which is robust on that server my only my one pause was going to just be kairos tonga leaving and how that could affect the patriots is it am i wringing my hands too much to be worried

42:43Dave Helman: about that no i don't think like he was really really good last year and i actually the only reason i didn't bring him up for the chiefs and as like a dna changer is i kind of heard he did that bit with him before about talking about like oh they might run more odd fronts and stuff like that so but no I think that he was a really good player I do think the front will look a little bit different and might look a little bit more we're trying to create chaos get into the backfield really leaning into the skill sets of like a Milton Williams instead of being in as many odd fronts as they were and just trying to have like a nose out there but they have a couple of guys it seems like they like like I think they like Corey Durden to do that I just probably am on the wavelength that he's not going to be as good at it as Tonga was last year I still think

43:23Derrik Klassen: And it sounds a little weird to say because particularly Milton Williams was so, so good for the Patriots last year. And like, so, and by the way, we already said Chase on had a really nice season for them. Like this front, while not great, had its moments, but I think they could be that much more physical this year and potentially even like dominant if Draymond Jones has a little bit more gas left in the tank. I'm going to stick really obvious, Derek. And my pet cause here is that call it the timing of the trade. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe you can help me shed some light on it. I don't think we're talking enough about Jalen Waddle going to Denver.

44:07Derrik Klassen: And he is a perfect example of what we're talking about here. Like Jalen Waddle is a picture perfect example of one guy making an offense feel completely different. And it's honestly a great case study because he's like the only thing changing. Everything else is the same. Yeah, literally the only, yes. It's the exact same offense that was boring to watch a lot of the time last year. And I think the Broncos offense could be kick-ass this year by adding this one guy to the mix. But it feels like it's going below the radar. Maybe that's just because we all expect the Broncos to be good and it's not interesting.

44:45Derrik Klassen: I don't know. It might be that.

44:47Dave Helman: And like, again, it was the only thing that they did. And it felt like, I don't know, there is, it does feel like maybe we're also coming off of like their season ended weird and like Knicks has the injury. So I think there's just like a weird feeling about what that team might be. But I don't know. I totally agree with you. And you laid it out earlier. Like there's two different kinds of DNA changers. There's the like attitude, you know, maybe some small scheme change thing, or this guy is just so damn good. We feel different about the offense. the only thing that most of us said last year about the Broncos offense outside of like whatever our takes are about Bo Nix is that this offense just isn't explosive like they were very efficient they ran the ball okay at times they were always ahead of the six the way they wanted to they didn't really take negative plays they just didn't have those like 15 20 25 yard chunks the way that you wanted to and I think some of that was up and down work in terms of the deep ball especially early on in the season I think Nix really struggled there even though it came on towards the second half of the year and they also just didn't have enough guys where it's like we can just spit the ball out to him and he just like pulls an 18 yard play out of a hat jalen waddle that's the whole thing is that like if you give him the ball there's like a one in five chance that he just turns it into a huge explosive play and so even if like i would actually ask you that do you think it's going to look different schematically or just that he's so damn good

46:05Derrik Klassen: at the stuff that they do that i think it's going to look exactly the same it's just going to be good Right. It's just going to be good.

46:13Dave Helman: Instead of Marvin Mims taking your screens and your jet passes and your short passes, it's going to be like, yeah, one of the six most explosive receivers in the NFL.

46:21Derrik Klassen: So I've got some stats here. Over the last four years, Jalen Waddell is 11th in the league in yak. He's 12th in the league in yak over expectation. He's 11 in yards per route run. He's fifth in yards per target. He's also one of just five guys over the last four years to average 10 plus yards per target. So averaging a first down every time he's targeted with the football. He's fourth in EPA per target. and he is 12th in first downs per route run. So Jalen Waddle accounts for a first down 11 % of the time when you target him. He's really good at football, man. And to the point we were talking about with Zay Flowers, there's just a shitload of these guys.

47:08Derrik Klassen: Like Jalen Waddle makes$28 million per year and it doesn't even register in the receiver landscape because there are so many good ones. But I think he's awesome. He's explosive. And to the point we were just making, among receivers with over 150 targets over this four-year time span that I looked at looked at Jayla Waddle is top 10 in the league and running in breaking routes and he runs a shitload of vertical routes as well like he already does what the Broncos want to do he's just really good at it like he's going to run the same slants and digs that Jimbo Nix has been throwing for two years he's just got a much higher chance of breaking it for 20 plus yards maybe even going 60 plus yards for a touchdown he's just you're adding a true game breaker to what Denver already does

47:56Dave Helman: because they were they were trying to make a Jalen Waddle type player in the aggregate with Troy Franklin and Marvin Mims and this is like putting it all in one player and also making him like 10 times better than that and actually getting that that type of value so like literally if 80 % of the Troy Franklin and Marvin Mims touches last year, just go to Jalen Waddell, they become a significantly better offense.

48:19Derrik Klassen: I'm putting my stamp on it. If you're not picking up on it yet in our preseason discourse, when it comes time for predictions, I'm real high on what the Broncos could be because the middling version of what they were doing was already really, really good. And now it has the potential to actually be good and fun to watch. All right. we got a couple more to hit. We're going to take our last break. We'll be back right after this. Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. Question for any pet owners. Of course, we all love our pets, but do you ever think about just how much joy and energy your pet brings to your household?

48:58Derrik Klassen: Something that's been on my mind a lot recently because I spent a healthy chunk of the summer out of town away from our dog, Mozzie, and getting back to him really made me think about just how much he does for my quality of life, my mental health, and how I would do anything to keep his derpy little face bopping around next to me for as long as possible. I bring it up because today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. If you've ever found yourself awake at 2 a.m., phone in hand, googling things like, is this normal for dogs? Or do I need to call a vet right now? You are not alone.

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54:00Dave Helman: All right, let's keep it pushing. Derek, who's your next guy? All right, I'm actually going to go to a player that I've talked about before this offseason and actually another New England Patriot. And that's Reggie Gilliam, the fullback. Now, I think... Let's go.

54:18Derrik Klassen: We're a parody of ourselves. Rewind to Dave saying, trying to be hipster about the picks. This is a tough pick right here.

54:26Dave Helman: This is, and this is actually... I arrived at a really weird spot this offseason as I was doing prep for not even this show. I don't even remember what show I was doing prep for. Maybe it was like prep for something completely unrelated. But I've realized in doing a lot of work this offseason that almost all of the offenses I really want to buy in on have a quarterback that reaches a certain level, have an X receiver that reaches a certain level, and have a fullback that reaches a certain level. And they use them. The teams I have under that bucket, the San Francisco 49ers, the Dallas Cowboys, the New England Patriots, the Seattle Seahawks, and the Denver Broncos.

55:07Dave Helman: all of those teams clear the bar in terms of quarterback play they have a fullback that they use all the time and they have an extra receiver that I think kicks ass barring whatever we think of Mike Evans as hell and so obviously there are going to be other good offenses that fit into that and some are close like Minnesota obviously has Justin Jefferson but their fullback is a rookie I don't know how good he is and how good he's going to play the Chargers have Alex Ingold I don't know if they really have an extra receiver even if Ladd McConkie is good but anyway those are the bucket of teams that I like find myself really really wanting to bet on this season.

55:37Derrik Klassen: Just love that Hunter Lipke is getting some shine here. He's good. The athletic football show.

55:43Dave Helman: That dude rocks. I think that he's he's really good and they the Cowboys were not explosive last year when they put a fullback on the ball on the field and ran the ball but they were high efficiency and I do expect them to just the offense I think is going to be generally better next year and I think with another year of him being in the system and everybody being in that system, the offensive line, hopefully being healthier. I think that that can really get kicked up a gear. But part of the reason I bring up the Patriots and Reggie Gilliam specifically, the Patriots were trying to use a fullback last year.

56:14Dave Helman: They were trying to use Jack Westover, and he's a former converted, like kind of undersized, sawed off tight end at Washington. They moved him to fullback and he's a good mover. He's a good athlete, just does not hit people the way that you would want for a fullback. Like he just doesn't have that like typical downfield like ISO just go take out a linebacker style Reggie Gilliam absolutely has that he's like 240 pounds he has this was this was I think the funniest I knew that Reggie Gilliam had like longer arms he has the same arm length as Dallas Goddard who has an 86th percentile wingspan among yeah yes dude yes holy shit really he is long levered man and he he's long levered he gets incredible leverage like when he's uh like when he's taking on blocks and like he's got good size And he is a good mover.

56:59Dave Helman: Like, he moves as good as Jack Westover did, except that he can actually, like, kick out defensive ends and he can actually move linebackers off their spot and he can actually take out safeties. Like, I think part of why the Bills were so successful last year is, like, Gilliam was able to do some of that stuff for them. I think you bring him in here to an offense that already wants to do that. You supercharge this run game potentially with a guy like Gilliam. And now the passing game has A.J. Brown, who's going to take the top off, Romeo Dobbs, who can win contested stuff, of Kayshaun Booty, he already takes the top up.

57:29Dave Helman: Like, I think also another sneaky take, like I think the Patriots offense might be like better than it was a year ago when Drake May was the MVP. Like this team is going to be electric.

57:38Derrik Klassen: Respectfully, I hope so. Yeah, with all the additions. Yeah, with all the additions.

57:45Dave Helman: I think some people are going to be like, how could that be? You know, the schedule was so easy last year. But like, I really think like this is, they might be like the second best offense in the NFL.

57:53Derrik Klassen: So I really we've we've talked about this at times. The way the Patriots season ended really feels like it's coloring a lot of people's perceptions about the fact that Drake may. I mean, if he had won MVP, nobody would have been surprised or complained like he was that good. And I mean, there's going to be bumps in the road. I get it. But the guy's like 23 played at an MVP caliber level. they gave him two legitimately good NFL receivers to work with yeah like other than the fact that it's kind of boring because they were just in the Super Bowl and they've played in like 10 Super Bowls over the last two decades you should be so high on the Patriots right now but also I love this angle because like it's so easy to get infatuated with the receivers and the amount of money that they make and all of the reasons why you get excited about wide receivers but But the fullback being the guy that's going to unlock this is enticing.

58:53Dave Helman: Listen, man, they Josh McDaniels already tells us that he's always going to put a fullback on the field. And now you're telling me they have like the third or fourth best one in the league. I think that does do something for them.

59:03Derrik Klassen: Think about what that could mean for like for all the focus on Drake May and the receivers. Again, you think about what that could mean for the running backs. Like, I mean, the smash mouth. God damn it. Sorry, three, two, the type of smash mouth football you could play with Ramondre Stevenson and a quality fullback, but also what Reggie Gilliam could do to spring Travion Henderson as well. I mean, that all of a sudden I'm falling in love with the Patriots, which, again, I think there's like it's easy to just kind of push them to the side in favor of something new. But there's a lot worth being excited about here.

59:39Dave Helman: Yeah, there's been too much like, oh, they're the obvious regression team this year. And I'm like, man, I look at the roster. I'm like, I don't know, dude. They're probably going to be pretty damn good again.

59:49Derrik Klassen: I love that pick. Okay. My last guy, we actually talked about this on last week's episode. Cause we did, we had at least one or two rookies on last year's DNA changers. And he was a top five pick. So not an under the radar name at all. But if the Tennessee Titans offense is going to achieve something resembling success, Obviously, it hinges on Cam Ward, but Carnell Tate being that dude, I think is the next most important piece of that. And I think he's capable of being that guy, by the way.

1:00:27Dave Helman: I absolutely think that he's capable of being like it's I think part of it is like he's in such a weird spot where we talked about him as a prospect and we were like, OK, maybe he's not as good as like the Jamar Chases or whatever. but like he's obviously an excellent wide receiver prospect but I don't think anyone thought that he was going to go as high as he did and then so he does and I think that we all had this collective like well how do we really think about him going that high but then when you really get down to like the nuts and bolts of like what does he do for the Tennessee Titans he kind of fixes a lot of the issues that they had where like again now they have a guy who they can just line him up on the outside and he can win one-on-one and I think a like I.O.

1:01:04Dave Helman: Manor could actually do a little bit of that for them last year. But the issue is, I think his consistency down to down, especially in terms of just like simply catching the football was really up and down. Not I do not foresee that at all being an issue for Carnell Tate, who if there's anything I'm certain that he's good at, it's tracking and catching the football. And so you just add this like this element of consistency from the pass catchers that I don't think that we ever saw from Tennessee last year on top of maybe if just some of these other role players can just fit into being role players and have some of this explosive element, there's a chance that this could look solid.

1:01:40Dave Helman: And he's the perfect type of receiver, I think, for a guy like Cam Ward.

1:01:44Derrik Klassen: We've talked about this before, where if we can assume that he is a good player right off the bat, you just feel so much better about every piece of the Titans receiving court. There's so much focus on Wandel Robinson because of the money he's making. But if he's down a peg because Carnell Tate is the unquestioned first option in the offense, that makes me feel so much better about everything. It makes me feel so much better about, well, whatever we get out of Calvin Ridley at this stage in his career, that's fine. Instead of if we don't get something out of Calvin Ridley, this offense is going to be abysmal to watch, which is the case for so much of last year.

1:02:24Derrik Klassen: And it lessens the pressure on guys like Iow Manor to take another step in their development, which for the record, sounds like that's happening. if you're following Titans reports coming out of training camp. So this is easier to like in totality if Carnell Tate plays up to that billing. And I think between tracking the ball downfield, being a guy that can go get the ball for Cam Ward, being a guy who can make gritty contested plays over the middle of the field, and being a blocker, by the way. Like Carnell Tate, I think for a rookie receiver, should be able to make a three-dimensional impact on this offense.

1:03:02Dave Helman: I couldn't agree more. And like, he's, I think again, like he's just, it feels like even though he, I think is absolutely receiver. They can just line up on the ball and just go win. The fact that he also is like, is there any receiver alignment or job or route that you don't think that he could handle at like an eight out of 10 level, at least like, I kind of think that he could do anything. Yes,

1:03:22Derrik Klassen: I completely agree. And, and he didn't, he didn't get that level of love as a prospect. And maybe he's not as sexy or like he's not as good as Malik neighbors was coming out of school, but he is just a good, well-rounded receiver. And maybe maybe fourth was surprising to some people, but he was worthy of being the first receiver off the board in this draft class and in a lot of draft classes.

1:03:49Dave Helman: I agree. Like he to me, I think he to me is like if Devonta Smith was like normal wide receiver size, like, you know what I mean? where it's like he's really good at everything maybe not elite physically but like he just is textbook technician in terms of the way that you want to play finds the ball incredibly well like can truly line up anywhere exceptional route runner like maybe he again he'll he's never going to be like you know Andre Johnson or Jamar Chase or Julio Jones or whatever but he he doesn't have to be to be a guy who's like a pro bowl receiver sooner than later I hope that scouting report is

1:04:21Derrik Klassen: on point because it would mean really fun things for the Titans offense all right do you have you

1:04:26Dave Helman: have one more guy yeah I've got one more quick one I wanted to give a little bit of love to a team that I think we don't think is going to be very good and they they probably won't be but this is Tavandra Sweat going to the New York Jets um obviously the Jets paid like a million dollars like you could pick probably four different Jets defenders if you really wanted to it could be to Mario Davis it could be one of the edge players somebody's got to change the DNA over there because they needed it badly but I'm going with Tavandra Sweat because this was a Jets run defense especially on first downs that was like truly as bad as it could be last year according to NFL Pro they allowed 41 runs of 10 plus yards on first down that was the worst in the NFL 17.1 percent of runs went for like 17.1 percent of runs went for a first down again highest rate in the NFL yikes um it was bad like it just getting gashed on first down immediately giving teams another you know rate and this was while they had a 32 % stacked box rate according to NFL Pro which was the sixth highest in the league it's like they were allocating the resources and just could not stop teams from doing it I do think bringing in a guy like Tavondre Sweat even if the rest of the defense I think is a little bit imperfect does give you that ability to like hey he is going to buy time for the backers to be able to fit he is going to be able to take on two blocks and make jobs easier for the guys around him.

1:05:47Dave Helman: And so I don't expect this to be like an elite defense by any means, but if this allows them to actually get into some more manageable downs and distances and allow Aaron Glenn to kind of open up his toolbox in a way that he probably never was really allowed to last year. I don't know if that actually means that they're going to be a good defense, but I do think that this changes stuff for them.

1:06:06Derrik Klassen: I'm glad we're highlighting the Jets because I looked through their roster and I liked Evandre Sweat, but I looked through their roster and I just couldn't settle on a guy that I really felt rock solid about highlighting, but it's interesting because, and I'm with you. Like I don't particularly expect the jets to be very good this year. I wouldn't pick them to make the playoffs, but if you look through there too deep, there's a lot to be intrigued by on this team. And I think if Gino Smith had even been normal, bad instead of what the Raiders were last year, I think it would be easier to get excited about this team.

1:06:43Derrik Klassen: and it's obviously not fair to put it all on the quarterback play. But when you know that's what Geno looked like, it's hard to drum up the enthusiasm. But then looking at the roster, I'm just like, I like a lot of the pieces here, man. We talk a lot about the young tackles. They obviously just drafted David Bailey really high. Demario Davis is still a good player. D 'Angelo Pons is a fun, unusual rookie prospect. Like there's, I didn't even mention the other first round picks. the you know the tight um kenyan sadiq and omar cooper like there's a lot of stuff worth being excited by here but in totality the jets still wind up not being a team a lot of people want

1:07:24Dave Helman: to talk about yeah and again i think that probably comes down to the offense and i think you know robert has made the good point of like you could maybe see a world where last year was an aberration for geno smith and he still got something left in the bag the fact that frank reich is going to be his play caller now and we don't like the last two times we've seen him it went really poorly and he wasn't even in the league the last couple years I think that has probably dwindled some people's hopes for this but I do think that there's a chance at least defensively that this can look like a pretty passable unit because I think Davis just allows you to communicate in a way that they were not before he's obviously very familiar with Aaron Glenn when they were together in New Orleans for a while and I don't maybe I miss I they even still had some other players like they signed Joseph Osai this offseason who I think can defend the run better than last year Kingsley and Igbari I think is actually like a really good like rotational defensive end like they they paid a lot of money to be average and maybe that's all that they'll be but actually it's it's I can definitely see the world where this is a pretty solid defense and I think a lot of that is going to start from a guy like Tavondre Sweat allowing you to actually win on first down and just not end up behind the sticks because I think that's ultimately a lot that is what a lot of football comes down to is when you end up behind the sticks from the other team and they're allowed to call what they want to call, you're just fighting an uphill battle.

1:08:38Dave Helman: And if a guy like Devondre Sweat can stop you from ending up there, I think that's pretty good for them.

1:08:42Derrik Klassen: It's a great spot to wrap it up. I'm glad we did it. Like I said, Jets fans, we see you. You are interesting in some ways. This is a team that I want to have an eye on for one reason or another, even if I can't get all the way on board with saying I'm optimistic. But that doesn't mean there aren't some intriguing pieces here. All right. That wraps it up for today. But my gosh, we have so much content coming y 'all's way. Robert's training camp rolls on. I think he's in Atlanta right now going to Washington and Baltimore. After that, he'll have reports, dispatches coming from all of those stops along the tour.

1:09:20Derrik Klassen: Plus, we got plenty more episodes coming y 'all's way. Make sure you keep an eye on the feed. Make sure you buy a ticket to the live show if you haven't. September 1st, we're doing our wins pool. If you're in Chicago or Chicago adjacent, Lincoln Hall here in Chicago will be live picking which teams are going to determine our fate in the wins pool for the 2026 season. Tickets are available now. Cannot wait for that. Cannot wait to see y 'all until then. That's all we got for right now. We'll talk to you all next time. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode.

1:09:55Derrik Klassen: If you enjoyed what you heard, please like comment and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

1:10:29Derrik Klassen: Transcription by CastingWords for details.