On the Clock, picks 19-25: How many offensive linemen will be taken in the first round?

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1:33Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Our On the Clock series rolls on today. I've loved doing these shows. Just a quick explanation of the exercise for people who may not have listened to the other ones that we've done so far. What we do is we bring on a draft analyst. We take a certain portion of the first round, six or seven picks. and we go through each individual pick and I give them three options and the exercises, they do what they would do if they were in the seat making the pick for these teams while they were on the clock. It's an interesting range of the draft. Got a couple of teams that could go off into tackle if they wanted to.

2:07Robert Mays: A couple of teams picking between the edge rushers here. This might be the Ty Simpson range for one of those teams. Just a little bit of a spoiler. So here to help me work through picks 19 through 25, it is our friend Mike Renner from CBS Sports. really enjoyed this conversation with Mike. A couple quick housekeeping things, mostly just one before we get started. The Reuben Bain news that came out this weekend. We're doing the show a little bit late because I actually was sick yesterday. And so I apologize if my brain isn't fully working today as well. We're going to talk about the Reuben Bain news.

2:39Robert Mays: That is going to be something that Dane and Dave hit on Building the Beast. And that show will be available to you tomorrow. Dane, obviously, is somebody that has talked to these teams about their considerations with Bay and the things that they're weighing. And so it felt like he was the best voice to address that and kind of work through that anyway. So that news will be talked about on Building the Beast tomorrow, but just wanted to let you know that it is coming. But today it is me and Mike Renner doing our next iteration of our On the Clock series. So let's get to picks 19 through 25 right now.

3:20Robert Mays: Our On the Clock series rolls on today with picks 19 through 25. Joining us to make his selections with those teams on the board. It is the draft analyst and expert at CBS Sports, our guy Mike Renner. Mike, how you doing, man? Fantastic. Unfortunately, doing better than you, it sounds like, Robbie. I'm doing okay. All right. I'm doing better than I was yesterday. I'm happy to have bounced back. Apologize this is coming to you guys a little bit late, but we definitely wanted to keep it rolling. And even if it's a few hours later than we want, it's still good to get this up on Tuesday. So let's get to it.

3:57Robert Mays: I listed off the players that had already been picked in the intro, but just for the YouTube audience, just to do it one more time, very quickly in order, the guys who are off the board, just so you're not screaming about why I'm not giving this as an option. Fernando Mendoza, Ruben Baines, Sonny Stiles, Arvel Reese, Francis Maui Noah, Carnell Tate, Jeremiah Love, David Bailey, Caleb Downs, Mansoor Delane, Spencer Fano, Dylan Thienemann, Makai Lemon, Kenyon Sadiq, Venga Ione. I was doing so well. Jordan Tyson, Caden Proctor, Jermaud McCoy were the first 18 picks in the draft so far. So we are starting with the Carolina Panthers at number 19.

4:35Robert Mays: Mike, your three options for the Carolina Panthers. Option one, draft Akeem Mesidor, the edge rusher from Miami. Carolina drafted Nick Scorton in the second round last year. It drafted Plincy Amon Mielin in the third round. I think you could still make an argument that even after signing Jalen Phillips in free agency this year, they could use one more, like, three-down pass rusher. So that's why I threw Mesador in there. Number two, and this one I just am obsessed with, draft Omar Cooper Jr. from Indiana. Like, just skill set-wise, when you think about that Carolina receiving core, it's exactly what they don't have.

5:07Robert Mays: They finished dead last in Yak last year. Like, dead last. They just don't have somebody who does that option three draft Emmanuel McNeil Warren and the safety from Toledo after the spending spree and free agency. I think you can make an argument. The safety is probably still the number one is, is right now the number one need on Carolina's defense drafted late in the ransom in the fourth round last year, re-sign Nick Scott and free agency, but still another whole opposite of Trevin Merrick there at safety. So those are your three options for Carolina draft key. Mesidor, draft Omar Cooper Jr., draft Emanuel McNeil Warren.

5:41Robert Mays: What are you doing if you're the Panthers? I was really excited for this team in particular to see your three options because I feel like of a lot of the teams drafting this round, or like at this point drafting later, they have the most wide open seemingly board. Like there's a lot of places I think the Panthers could go. Of the guys you mentioned, so on my board right now, the rank is Cooper, Emanuel McNeil Warren, Akeem Mesidor. I think of those three Mesidor, even just like fit for the Panthers, probably the last one I'm picking just because the investment already, because of what I think kind of their timeline is, I would more want a high ceiling guy for like two or three years down the road for this team.

6:21I think they're still kind of young and ascending. I don't think they're right, ready to compete just yet, despite making the playoffs last year. So I'm leaning between Cooper and McNeil Warren. They are truly back to back on my board, 21 and 22. I like both these guys a lot. I think for them, though, Eileen Cooper, and yes, I know it's three straight years of first round wide receiver, four straight years of top 40 wide receiver. But if you haven't gotten it right, you got to get it right. And he is, like you said, they don't have a yak guy. They don't have a speed guy in this receiving core.

6:52He is both of those. I go back to his junior tape when he averaged over 21 yards per catch. Like he can actually be a vertical threat. That just wasn't the way Indiana needed to use him in that kind of weird offense they had. so give me omar cooper jr i think he is kind of like you said you love the fit because it's the missing piece i love the fit as well i think there are a lot of ways it makes sense jalen

7:16Robert Mays: cocker can play a little inside outside and so can cooper and so you have flexibility and to me it's just not inside it to me it's not sometimes it's like okay we don't have a slot guy so we need a slot guy to me this is a skill set fit where if you look at the skill sets being brought to the table with carolina's receiving core he just brings the one they don't currently have There were so few plays for the Panthers last year where a guy was taking a five yard reception and getting 15 yards. It's just not the types of players they have on that team. And that's exactly what he is. And I understand that.

7:46Robert Mays: I mean, saying, man, another first round receiver, another highly drafted receiver. Well, it didn't work out with LeGette. Like, I think you can probably at this point just cut bait and say, hey, it was a swing on a raw guy at the back half of the first round. It did not work out. We're going to keep swinging because we need to keep trying to lift the quarterback that we're trying to make the most of that still hasn't quite gotten there. And so even with all of those investments, I still think it's an OK thing to rationalize. Why ultimately Cooper over McNeil Warren, if considering safety might still be their biggest hole in the roster?

8:21I think it's McNeil Warren's skill set compared to Trayvon Merrick's. That's what I figured. Which is redundancy. You know, like I think you're getting a lot of overlap in the skill set. And it's not to say, like, McNeil Warren's role at Toledo when he watches tape is very much, you know, compared to the other safeties in this class, it's very much trends more towards the box. He's more of like a whole player in coverage. He's not really ranging on the back end. I think it's underrated. I think he can't. When he's asked to do that, I think he can. But I don't really want him to because he's so good at the underneath stuff.

8:51And so is Merrick. So it's like you kind of have two guys who both are so exceptional in the box that really only use one of them there at one given time. unless you want to move him to the slot, which potentially he could, but I don't think that's really his best role.

9:05Robert Mays: The other thing I was going to bring up, and I'm curious if you would have gone this direction if I'd given you the option. Tackle is something that is maybe worth considering for the Panthers. They signed Rasheed Walker in free agency as a stopgap because Ikeeku Iquano is coming off that torn Achilles. But Iquano's in the last year, he's on his fifth-year option this year. And so if this team is trying to think a year in advance, right now, the way this has fallen, And maybe this is on me for not giving more guys tackle options in the first 18 picks, but we've still got a lot of first-round caliber tackles available here for a team in Carolina that may need one and a couple other teams on this list that may be looking for one.

9:40Robert Mays: So if I had given you, let's say, a Monroe Freeling as one of your four options instead of those three other guys, how much would you have considered that? I really like tackle for the Panthers for two reasons. I think one is, like you mentioned, the fact that with Icky's injury, he may not come back the same guy. It's a serious injury, you know, the patellar tear, which is, you know, not everyone. Maybe that was, I'm sorry, I said Achilles. It's like a 50-50 comeback rate. That was why Josh Simmons fell to where he did despite his tape last year, right? So that, and then he's going into free agency after this year.

10:21So I really like tackle for them. I think I have Caleb Lomu higher than Monroe Freeling, but I think Monroe Freeling specifically would be, would fit that room in terms of what he can do in the running game. It's like more of a people mover as Lomu is just like, you're drafting him for pass protection. So gosh, I mean, I have, I have Freeling just a touch behind Cooper on my board. I don't know if it would have been enough to overcome just because I really like Cooper. I really like just getting some weapons. you see how much wide receivers are getting paid nowadays. And I just feel like Cooper has such a high floor that, you know, his worst case scenario is he's making like 15 to$20 million four years from now in his next contract.

11:02Robert Mays: Okay. I'm glad you would have went that way. Cause I was tempted to do it just because they're one of those teams. And I think there's a few different teams in this range that may be, if not surprise tackle teams, then a year ahead tackle teams. Maybe that's what I would say. I think Pittsburgh is going to be one of those teams. Philadelphia is going to be one of those teams. You know, the Browns are not a year away tackle team. The Browns are we desperately, desperately need a day one starter right now, especially because in this exercise, we went Carnell Tate at six. So there's going to be a lot of tackle chatter on this, on this, on this, in this conversation.

11:32Robert Mays: That's maybe why I didn't feel compelled to start that discussion with the Panthers, because there are some other ways that we could go. Let's get to the Dallas Cowboys here at 20. Option one, I'm going to say it again, draft the key Mesidor. We can also talk about some of the other edge rushers here, right? Just edge as an option, but let's use Mesidor as a placeholder there, and then we can talk about some of the other guys. Option two, and I'm giving this as the choice because on your initial big board back in February, you had him very high, and I'm curious if you prefer him over the other corners that might be available here, and that's Avian Terrell from Clemson.

12:06Robert Mays: So he is the corner option I am giving you here for Dallas. Option three, similar discussion. I think defensive tackle is you can make an argument that's the way that Dallas could go. I'm giving you Peter Woods as your third option here at 20, because I know that you are a little bit interested in Peter Woods. So those are the three options. And then I also think it's worth discussing linebackers here. I just don't know if there's a linebacker you would feel comfortable drafting at 20, even if that is a pretty significant need still for Dallas, if you look at their roster. You mentioned sneaky OT teams.

12:38I've also liked the Cowboys as a sneaky OT team with Terrence Steele and just given their track record of investing in that position. But of those three, you can't do it, though. Not right now.

12:49Robert Mays: Not when you have these holes on defense. I get it. I actually think that's probably a smart way to think about it, especially in a draft like this. But, man, if you want a Cowboy fans to just rush the facility, you would just have protests outside of the star if they didn't use both of these first round picks on defensive players. Yeah, no, I do agree with that. And I think ultimately they will. But, hey, they've done it before. Of those three, the ranking I have on my board is Terrell, Woods, Mesidor. But I think Mesidor, he starts bumping up his value when we talk about teams that I think are ready to compete right now.

13:25And I think the Cowboys compared to the Panthers, despite having a worse record last year, I think they're a lot closer to competing. I think what we saw from that defense down the stretch after the Quinn and Williams trade, obviously how talented their offense is right now, and just they're bringing back everybody, top five offense in the NFL. I don't see that changing. So if they just hit the right notes defensively in this draft, some impact guys right away, I think they could be there. And of those three, I think Mesidor makes a big impact right away. Terrell makes a big impact right away.

13:58I don't know if Peter Woods makes as big an impact right away, especially given, you know, he's probably going to do the same role as Quinn Williams for that defense. So between Terrell and Mesidor, I think I lean Terrell just because I love this guy's tape. I think he is kind of what they were missing last year. And he's just like tough, reliable, and just smart football player. I watch his tape and it's easy to say the bloodlines of his brother being AJ Terrell, but it feels like he's the TJ Watt to AJ's JJ Watt, where he's like not as big, not the same physical specimen, but it's just darn he plays the game the right way like everything about him is what i want now the 4640 will drop him yes but i dropped kamari laster too much after he ran a 465 and i regret that i'm not going to do the same with avion terrell i would draft him here if i'm the dallas

14:54Robert Mays: cowboys love that comparison because i think that the kamari laster thing and talking to people in houston about him he's kind of become like a touchstone in the way that they evaluate players where like, is this guy just made of the right stuff? And the fact that he is to such an extent when you watch that defense play on a defense that has a player last year that would have won defensive player of the year in any season where a guy didn't break the sack record in Will Anderson. You have another number one pass rusher in Daniil Hunter. You have at one point the highest paid corner in the NFL, right?

15:28Robert Mays: Now he's second now in Derek Stingley, justifiably. You have superstars all over that defense I think you could make a serious argument that Kamari Laster is like the most boiled down like channeler of the Houston Texans defensive energy of any single team on that unit. And I think that it allows you to kind of overlook or move past some of the limitations that we're talking about here. And so if you think Terrell kind of brings a similar sort of mold to the conversation, then I think that that's worth considering. I think that's a good thing to bring up. So those are the three guys. I totally understand Terrell.

16:01Robert Mays: And if you look at the other, you know, the corner investments, you know, Ravel last year, the idea that, well, he could have been a first round pick if he hadn't been hurt. Well, he was a third round pick. And so the idea that he has to be part of your future, I think that's worth a conversation. Kobe Durant signed a one year, four million dollar deal. And so I don't think there are that many barriers to the Cowboys drafting a corner here, especially if one is the best player available on the board. And according to your big board, he's probably the best player available that's left, right? He is.

16:30Robert Mays: Yes, he is my top. available player. So any other options here that we should discuss for Dallas, like linebackers? Is there any, like, are those the options you would have wanted if you were Will McClay and Jerry Jones, and you were making the pick here, like those positions at least. Yeah. Truthfully, those are the top guys at the positions that I would draft for them, especially given that they already went safety in this draft. Now I would think about Emmanuel McNeil Warren for them, but like they already drafted Dylan Thienemann. Good safety class. I'm not drafting two first round safeties.

17:00Robert Mays: The other one that I think just worth throwing out just for conversation is the different edge options that are still available here. Like, or is there any world where Keldrick Falk would be more appealing to you than a Terrell? I know that you have Falk and Mesidor pretty similar in terms of how you have them stacked up, correct? Even if it's a little bit, it's very different in terms of what they're bringing you, right? I mean, it's, you talk about age, you talk about upside, all of those things, very different prospects, both literally and figuratively. when you think about what Keldrick Falk and Akeem Mesidor are bringing to the table?

17:30This is the first team where I think Falk makes sense for me to draft. But I just considerably see Mesidor as a better player right now. And for a team that needs the player right now, like he needs impact pass rush right now. Whereas Keldrick Falk, you know, maybe for a team that their window's more three to four years down the line, then I could draft Falk over Mesidor. That could be a deciding factor. But I want the guy right now from the Dallas Cowboys. And I know Mesidor is just the better player right now. I don't know if Falk ever figures out as a pass rusher. I think he's a great run defender, don't get me wrong.

18:04And that matters more and more in today's NFL, but he's just really not a pass rusher. And I don't even know if he's a defensive end at the next level. That body type oftentimes is an interior guy nowadays.

18:16Robert Mays: With Mesidor, is there anything other than the age that concerns you? In terms of just like the production profile, what he is as a player, are there limiting factors there that push him a little bit further down to you? are mostly just, eh, he's 25, he's tapped out. How much more are we really going to get from him? Well, I think it's that combined with he was not, he's not a great athlete. He's not a toolsy guy. You're drafting him based off of tape. And I'm fine drafting those guys, right? I'm not a huge, I just said it with Avian Charlie, ran a 4-6-4 and I'm taking him, right? So I'm like, what kind of athlete are you on tape?

18:48And he's a good athlete on tape, but you have to admit that he's not crazy explosive. He doesn't have long arms. he's not absurdly strong for being 25 years old. You know, he doesn't bully guys as much as you would probably hope a guy that age would if he were truly to continue doing that at the NFL level. He just is a very well-rounded football player. My comp for him is Olivier Vernon, which is like, hey, that's fine. It's a good football player. We're not shooting for the moon when you draft an Olivier Vernon or an Akeem Mesidor. So that's just kind of the profile. And it's weird, right? It's one of the weirdest prospects I can remember, but I would be floored if he's not at least a good NFL football player.

19:28Robert Mays: Let's get to the Steelers here at 21. This one's tough, right? I mean, you're trying to figure out what the actual needs are and what the four options should be. I guess I'll start with that. I thought safety might be one that's worth bringing up, like Brisker's on a one-year deal. Deshaun Elliott's in the final year of his deal, so we can chat about that a little bit later. But it felt like there were three others that were a little bit more interesting in terms of the conversation. and so that's why it didn't go safety as one of the four options. Let's start with the thing we alluded to a little bit earlier.

19:56Robert Mays: These teams that are drafting a tackle a year in advance. Your option one for the Steelers here, with them likely declining Broderick Jones' fifth-year option here coming up pretty soon, is draft your best available offensive tackle. I didn't want to pigeonhole you into one guy because all of them are still available. The last offensive tackle drafted in this exercise, I believe, was Spencer Fano at 11. So, I mean, we have everybody still on the board here. It's I, not sure. Lomu, Blake Miller, Monroe Freeling. So I didn't want to limit you to one of those guys. So draft your best available offensive tackle is option.

20:30Robert Mays: Number one, option two is draft Casey Concepcion, the wide receiver from Texas A &M. It was one of those where I, I didn't make the connection in my head right away. And then as I started thinking about it, I was like, actually, it's more so how he fits with Pittman. like the combination of his skill set with Pittman's is like, oh man, I actually really do like that. And the trio of those two plus Metcalf, I do think I can get behind and option three, just because I do think it's worth the discussion is draft Ty Simpson. So those are your three options here. If you were on the board for the Steelers draft, your best available offensive tackle draft, Casey Concepcion from Texas A &M, the receiver or draft Ty Simpson, a quarterback.

21:13What are you doing? If you're the Steelers, this one's tough because the top tackle casey concepcion ty simpson are back to back to back on my board they're like they're right there i love caleb lomu for them specifically you want you just i mean broderick jones cannot pass protect you do not trust him one-on-one caleb lomu i think is a better pass protector literally right now could be a really high-end guy if he really wants it i think it really is just want it with him like he just wants needs to be a little more locked in, a little more killer instinct, and that guy is a good starting offensive tackle.

21:48And that's, you got nobody right now. There is nothing in the tank there for this Steelers team. So very intrigued by that. But also Casey Concepcion is ultimately my wide receiver one on my board. I think he is the best separator in this draft class. And like you said, for the Steelers specifically, that is the missing piece of this receiving core, kind of the same way Cooper was for the Panthers receiving he is exactly what they could use but then it's like why do you hire Mike McCarthy you hire Mike McCarthy because he's his track record developing quarterbacks this is a quarterback who I think has real developmental potential do I want him starting tomorrow am I worried about injuries yes I am worried about that I don't know if I want him starting tomorrow but like he showed a lot in the first half of the season before obviously injuries struck so So with those three options, this I'll say this.

22:43Robert Mays: I'll say this before you, I make you make a decision. It's an option. You can say no to Ty Simpson here because you think you can get him later. That, that is a thought you can take into this exercise with the Steelers. And I don't mind the Steelers believing that the Steelers have, I'm not even going to count them. It's infinite picks in this draft. The Steelers have infinite draft picks. When you look at what they're working with in rounds three and four, they have two third round. They have three third round picks and two fourth round picks. And so they are the perfect team. If they wanted to maneuver either back up into the first round or higher into the second round, they're picking at 53 right now.

23:20Robert Mays: And so if they're a little bit worried that Simpson wouldn't get to them at 53, they're more than capable of getting back up a little bit higher and drafting him in either the back half of the first round or early in the second round. And so if you want to have your cake and eat it too, and get the tackle and the quarterback later, that is a thought that I think is acceptable here for Pittsburgh specifically.

23:41I think I'm leaning still just take Ty Simpson here I don't I don't think he falls out of the first round I think there's too much desperation too many teams would want him especially when it's like Cardinals at the top of the second I think they would take him there so because of that take Ty Simpson here and again you have you give Mike McCarthy a guy to develop I think there's real developmental potential here I think he's a good athlete I think he has a good enough arm I I think there's a lot to work with to mold him into the guy of the future. And you're too good to get the guy next year, right?

24:14You're just too good of a team right now. Yeah, you're super old and you need some youth too, but this is too good of a team to really bottom out and go 5-12. That's not going to happen with this roster. So you're not going to be in any quarterback class anytime soon. I think Ty Simpson's about as good as you can do when that's not the case.

24:34Robert Mays: I like that thought a lot because I guess that's it's a really good argument as to why you do it now because it's why would you do it later like do you think you'll be in a better position later on and even if you're drafting like 15th next year maybe you can maneuver up a little bit and get a guy in a slightly better quarterback draft but there's no guarantee of that and so this idea that this actually might be their best chance at a quarterback prospect that moves the needle let's just say that like he's a needle moving quarterback prospect this might be their best chance at getting one I actually do understand that argument as to why they should pull the trigger here I wonder just how much the Kenny Pickett thing has scarred like them from doing this exactly right like the idea of we're taking a guy that falls a little bit like if you look at the history of quarterback prospects from 20 to 32 or 20 into the first round or into the second round there's a reason that a lot of those guys don't end up panning out because if they were good enough we He would draft them higher.

25:33Robert Mays: Like, there are reasons that the Kenny Picketts of the world are not success stories very often. And if Ty Simpson is shaping up to be another one of those, I could understand, especially in that building, if they were a little bit worried about going that direction. But I'll just say this to cap it off. And I agree with all that, right? Like, you are, your odds are slim. I think Simpson's a weird prospect, though, and that's why he's falling to here. There's like a, just the profile is unique throughout NFL history. you slam dunk hit on, say, Caleb Lomo. He's a franchise left tackle. Casey Concepcion, he's a number one wide receiver.

26:10You're still not winning the Super Bowl. You're still not close, really, to winning the Super Bowl with this team right now, in my opinion, because of what's going on at the quarterback position, because kind of this roster is getting really old. So it really doesn't matter if you don't hit on the quarterback position. If you slam dunk hit another position, you're still kind of in the same spot you were last year, which is maybe sneak in the playoffs. Maybe you win a playoff game, but you ain't competing with the top end of the AFC.

26:35Robert Mays: But you can always tell yourself the story of, well, next year is the year that we can get the quarterback, right? That's the upside is that, well, if we get a really good tackle or a really good receiver, next year is the year that we can get the quarterback, even if there's really no evidence that next year you're going to have a better chance than you do right now. Any other positions that you think are worth touching on for the Steelers? I mentioned safety is kind of a stray thought. But any others when you're just tracking needs and when you're doing mocks, things like that, you're thinking about when it comes to Pittsburgh's roster?

27:08I would love to give them a slot cornerback at some point, but not in the first round. It's a good slot class, day two.

27:18Robert Mays: Let's talk about some of those names. I'm just curious. As you're thinking about guys who are better fit for the slot, it might be day two options. Who are some of the names that come to mind for you? I love Keontae Scott from Miami. me now he's not only better fit for the slot he literally is a slot like that's pretty much all I'm playing him as but he is physical around the line of scrimmage like the run defense around the line of scrimmage sort of aspect the weak side linebacker stuff that slot now does is he's awesome at like that that guy can play uh in a phone booth and you're happy with it he's great at that trading stooks is kind of the opposite end of the slot corner I'll say in that he's more trends towards the coverage ability, his ability to go one-on-one or range with someone.

28:01I think he can even play outside corner. I think he can play safety given his skill set. So those two are kind of the guys who are truly slots right now. I think Keith Abney from Arizona State also is a guy who I would be willing to. Him and Brandon Cisse are the two outside corners where I'm like, they play the game the way I would want a slot corner to play. So those are two like day two guys, probably second rounders where if you need a slot and you drafted them and put them there I would kind of kind of like Jacob Parrish last year right I think he was an outside corner and then just immediately went to the slot that I would be like yeah they're gonna be successful

28:34Robert Mays: there if you want to hear more about Keonti Scott and Trayton Stooks those are both on Bruce Feldman's list of the guys that people have wrong going into this draft class just because they can play like those guys can play so we did an entire episode last week about that bucket of players and both of those guys were on Bruce's list. If you want to go check that out. All right. We're going to take our first quick break and then come back and chat about a team that I just cannot get my arms around in the Los Angeles Chargers. You know that hoodie you can't stop reaching for the one that feels like a second skin, soft, warm, somehow makes you feel a little more grounded.

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31:30Robert Mays: All right, let me explain what I meant before we went to break. With this team specifically, interior offensive line is, to me, clearly their biggest need. can you take an interior offensive lineman at 22 among the group of guys who are available here probably not right and so I think that's part of the issue here is that trying to stack up their biggest needs with the players who are available in this range of the draft is a little bit more difficult and so I think it might be too early for an interior offensive lineman we can chat about that if you want to so the three options that I'm going to throw out there one draft your best available edge rusher one of the reasons I framed it this way is I didn't know if Mesador would still be on the board because I'd given him to you a couple different times, a couple of these other teams.

32:12Robert Mays: So, and the other reason is, I'm curious which body type they would be willing to go for here because it's their third edge rusher. So in a perfect situation, right, you think, oh, they might be a Keldrick-Folk team, like Khalil Mack is a longer player, like Khalil Mack's in the final year. If he's on a one-year deal, do they want that as a succession plan? But would you actually want somebody that has a little bit more pass rush juice if he's going to be your third edge rusher early in his career. And so the range of different types of edges available in this draft and in this range, I think we can talk about that with the Chargers specifically.

32:46Robert Mays: So option one, draft your best available edge rusher. Mesidor, Falk, Cassius Howell, whatever you want to do. Option two is draft Emmanuel McNeil-Warren if he's available. Safety to me feels like a need for them. Tony Jefferson's on a cheap one-year deal. at this point you've had derwin james move to the slot often enough where is he completely redundant with what mcneil warren gives you so i feel like that was worth throwing out there and then option three i'm going to say it again because you really do like him is draft peter woods if he's available and we can talk about the other defensive tackles here if you want to dalvin tomlinson's on a one-year deal so it seems like if they wanted to keep adding to that room they could but those are the three options i threw out and of all the teams we're doing here it's the group I felt the worst about because I just don't know how strong I feel about stacking up the actual needs that the chargers have I'm right there with you and I also I don't I feel like I can't really get a handle on how the chargers draft yes that's that's also part of it yes you know I don't know what they like it's still so early with this front office that we don't really have because you try to maybe apply some of the Ravens thinking but at the same time Is that what you should be doing?

34:00Robert Mays: And so it's just a team that I'm like, I just don't know what I feel about this. Yeah, I'm right there with you. And so this one's been hard. And I thought they'd also spend more money in free agency this year than they did. You and Chargers fans both, buddy. So I was like, I don't know what to make of what this front office is going to do. But of those options, one like sticks out to me, flashing lights that I'm just like, this is the way. And it's Peter Woods, the Clemson DT. I look at kind of just the track record of Clemson of late developing top end guys, and it's just been not good. He reminds me of like Dexter Lawrence in that freshman year.

34:38We were talking about this guy like he was going to be the next big thing. Sophomore year, all of a sudden, you know, like this guy is going to be a top five pick. Junior rolls around. It's like, what happened? You know, Dexter Lawrence never developed in college. Peter Woods really never developed in college. which has kind of just has unfortunately been a common theme for a lot of Clemson players of late. And it's maddening to me. But you can't deny that guy is a freak athlete, extremely explosive, extremely strong for his size. And to me, Jim Harbaugh, his track record between Michigan, the 49ers, even here now with the Chargers, he's like PEDs for DTs.

35:13Like the DTs play their best ball under Jim Harbaugh wherever he goes. So if you give Peter Woods with all his tools to Jim Harbaugh, I think you're getting a high-end potential difference maker for a team that, you know, they got fine DTs right now. I don't think you're going to complain about their DT room anytime soon. But to call those guys like difference makers, that's not what they are.

35:35Robert Mays: And I think that's with this group specifically in this front office, I think the way they're trying to use free agency is, can we put ourselves in a position where we're not scrambling on draft day because we didn't fill starting roles in free agency? And I think that's partially why it's slightly difficult to come up with exact needs like them going out and getting Dalvin Thomas. And it's like, well, now they have another defensive tackle. Well, they did that at all the positions. And so what position stands out? Because they've done that in so many places. But in the first round is where you want to find difference making players.

36:06Robert Mays: And so if you project this into 2027, Tyre Tarja signed a three year deal. Jamari Caldwell will be in year three. But Tomlinson won't be on the roster anymore. So you still need that group to go three or four deep and trying to find a difference maker at this range of the draft, I think does make sense. So why Woods over the edge rushers, I guess is what I would say, because, again, if we're projecting this a year in advance, there's a chance that Khalil Mack isn't even on this roster anymore. I think to me, it's just tools. I don't necessarily see high-end potential from truly any of the edge rushers at this point.

36:39I think you can get some fine players, but I have not seen enough in terms of even flashes to say that any of them are going to be Pro Bowl-type ceilings, whereas I think I have from Peter Woods. I think Peter Woods, that is his ceiling. And now, you know, he's kind of a three-tech only, you know, smaller frame, not going to be a versatile do-it-all DT. He's definitely pigeonholed into a certain role. But in that role, I think he has the traits to be all pro potential at that position. It's just, why didn't we see it develop? Who knows? Hopefully we get that at the next level.

37:16Robert Mays: And the other thing is, again, if he's pigeonholed, if he's a little limited, especially early in his career, you can use him as part of a rotation. Like you've got enough bodies where you don't have to ask more of him than he can do early on, which I think is another benefit here. So I mentioned interior offensive line, any interior offensive lineman that you would consider here if I had given you that as an option? Or is it too early for pretty much everybody you'd be thinking about? I think it's just too early. Okay. Like the, you know, I really like Vega Ioani. I like kind of the second wave of guys like Keelan Rutledge, Chase Besantis.

37:47I think those are quality, competent starters for you. it's just first round for those guys it's like really stretch and thin uh positional value in my opinion like you're really kind of wasting what could be like i said like an all pro dt potential is on the board versus a guy who's going to be a quality starting guard for you but like i don't see those guys as pro bowl pro bowlers at the position they have 55 and 86 they only have

38:12Robert Mays: five picks in this draft they don't have their fifth or seventh round picks but they do pick at 55 and 86. So the second round is a spot where they absolutely could try to find an interior offensive lineman as part of this discussion. The other position I'd throw out, I'm just curious your thoughts. Is there a reason that the Chargers shouldn't be thinking about another corner? Like Cam Hart's been fine. I think Dante Jackson's on the final year of his deal this year, but it just seems like a spot where if they wanted to seek out an upgrade, it might be worth doing. I think it's because Cam Hart and Tarheep still were day three picks, right?

38:46I think it's because is what they're wanting to do defensively. They're just like, they just want smart football players. They don't necessarily need, you know, the best lockdown man corner to run that defense. So I think that's, they're just going to keep probably throwing multiple day three picks at it every year and seeing what sticks. I will say, the one thing you're talking about,

39:03Robert Mays: Jim Harbaugh being an accelerant for defensive linemen, you talk about the types of corners they can get away with. We are in year one of no Jesse Minter in Los Angeles. So how we talk about this defense on April 14th of next year versus how we're talking about it now. I'll be curious to see how that goes. I'm open to it being the same, but I think that that is at least going to be worth evaluating as we move through the 2026 season. You're in the same boat as me because all last season, I'm like, this defense should not be getting these results. There is an incongruity between talent and results.

39:39And hats off, Jesse Mincher. I mean, what a hire. That guy was coaching his butt off there.

39:44Robert Mays: That's why he got the most sought after job among this entire cycle is because he was doing that consistently with those guys in LA. Let's get to the Philadelphia Eagles at 23. Okay. This is, it's kind of easy when you're talking about Philly in some ways, because I think when you talk about what do they want, what are their types? We can go to a couple of different positions. And so I threw out a couple of big buckets, similar to what we talked about before, because there's so many players available at these spots. Number one, draft your best available edge rusher. Jalen Phillips leaves in free agency feels like a spot that could use an upgrade plus a little bit of depth.

40:18Robert Mays: So that's option one for Philly draft your best available edge rusher. Option two. I had draft Denzel Boston from Washington as option two here for the Eagles. I'm open to another receiver. If you want to talk about them, right? Concepcion is still available. And so we could discuss that, but just receiver as a general thought. And I went big bodied because if they do trade AJ Brown, do they want like a true X replacement? That's why Boston kind of made the most sense. We've heard some smoke about them maybe wanting Jordan Tyson and potentially a willingness to move up in the draft for Jordan Tyson.

40:50Robert Mays: So that is something to be thinking about. But in this exercise, you can't trade into the top 10 because then our lives would get very difficult very fast. Option three for Philly after Edge and Denzel Boston is draft your best available offensive tackle. It's probably time for a Lane Johnson succession plan. This draft actually sorts out very well to potentially find one with a decent amount of tackles available here at 23. And so those are your three options if you're making this decision for the Eagles. Edge, Denzel Boston, slash receiver, which we can talk about, or draft your best available offensive tackle.

41:23Robert Mays: What are you doing if you're Philly? I've been saying this is the Philly O-line. Go back to the O-line. They haven't taken one top two rounds since Cam Juergens in 2022, and he's already... Yeah, they haven't had to. It's a nice life. Yeah, right. But I think it's... We're getting to the point where it's close. Cause like last year, they kind of wish they had another guy, right? Landon Dickerson with his injury history. It's not just Lane Johnson. It's Landon Dickerson too. They had to trade for Fred Johnson. It felt like the first time in a while where they were scrambling a little bit because they were not operating from a position of strength up front.

41:53Yes. Which is not the Howie Rosen way. So I, for them specifically now, no Jeff Stoutland, right? That's, that's kind of the rub here that I'm not sure which way to go. Cause if you had Jeff Stoutland, I'd just say draft Maxie Honichor and we're going to turn him into an all pro, right? The guy is a freak of nature. But without him, I probably want a guy a little bit more NFL ready. I would debate between, for them specifically, probably Lomu and Monroe Freeling at this point. Lomu, I just don't know if he's a good enough run blocker to fit in with that offensive line, though. I think for them specifically, I might lean Monroe Freeling just because of the physicality.

42:32You want to keep that, just like that's how they operate. So I'd probably go Monroe Freeling. It's the year to dress the trenches, such a deep class. And in deep classes, you get better value at your picks than normal because not everyone's going to draft O-line just based off a need. So that's where my head's at with the Eagles.

42:51Robert Mays: I think that's totally fair. At Monroe Freeling going at 23 here, I think there's the biggest gap between where he went in this exercise and where he could potentially go in the draft, right? Like if Monroe Freeling was the sixth overall pick to the Browns, would that surprise you? Not at all, no. I mean, the ascension and just the body type is crazy. You know when you see it, right? When a guy looks like a tight end at 315 pounds, it's like, okay, those guys have a strong track record in the league. And there are a lot of teams in the course of the top 22 picks that we didn't go offensive tackle for in this exercise, but I think you could easily see them doing it when it actually comes to draft day.

43:32Robert Mays: A couple of those teams, just because I'm trying to account for the fact that no offensive tackles have gone so far in the first 22 picks, trying to figure out why the chiefs are one of those teams, right? Like the chiefs could easily pick a tackle at eight if they wanted to with Jalen Moore being on the final year of his deal. He was kind of a stopgap option anyway. So if Kansas city decided, eh, we're not in a position to draft these guys normally, this is the premium position they want. I don't think that would be surprising. Miami did pick a tackle here. I think they absolutely are a team that could do that.

44:00Robert Mays: the Rams at 13 Lance went with Makai Lemon which I think is totally justifiable but I also think they're a team that could draft a tackle for the same reasons and then keep moving down Carolina is a team that we mentioned and then Pittsburgh is another team and so we've only had like four offensive linemen go it could easily be six or seven by this point in the draft because I think a lot of these are coin flip type decisions between the tackles and the players that were ultimately taken yeah and I think it's And you saw at the combine, right? These are highly gifted athletes. Even if they're not, for the most part, dominant football players already, the NFL trends towards the athletes round one.

44:40So I do think that when it's all said and done, we might have eight guys, eight O 'Lyman in the first round, and eight O 'Lyman maybe before pick 25. I could very easily see just given how many teams just want that strength up front.

44:54Robert Mays: All right, before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break.

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46:37Robert Mays: So for Cleveland here at 24, we're going a different direction than we've gone with any of the other teams that we've had so far. Cleveland went with Carnell Tate at six, which again, fair, right? You have a big needed receiver. You have a big needed tackle. And the way that this has played out, there is a world potentially where there are a lot of tackles still available at 24. So for the Browns specifically, that's all we're choosing between. It is pick your best offensive tackle that is still left. So Monroe Freeland just went. So we have Max Ahanashore is number one, Caleb Lomu at number two, Blake Miller at number three.

47:10Robert Mays: So if you are the Browns picking in this spot, which of those three offensive tackles are you taking? Or is there one I didn't give you that you wanted? No, it's between those three. Those are my next three up. And it's Lomu. I just think I feel so much better about him in pass protection than the other two. I think all three of them end up being starters. Their ceilings, we can debate, but I know Caleb Lowe moved. Guys that move the way he does, the coordination that he plays with, is just what it looks like. That's what you're supposed to have to be a high-end pass protector. So with him, it's really about strength development, about technique development.

47:47He gets those two things. you have your blindside locked down and it didn't take, you know, pick six, it took pick 24 to get it. So I think this played out very well for the Browns. Yeah.

47:58Robert Mays: Again, if I was literally, there was one of the points I was going to make, this feels like an ideal outcome here for the Browns looking at the guys who are still available here. And there's absolutely a scenario where this is not how it goes on draft day. And all these guys go earlier and the well gets drier faster than this, but the way that these picks have gone. And thankfully I could distance myself from that. The Browns have plenty of guys available to pick from with their 24th overall pick here. So they're going with Caleb Lomu from Utah as their left tackle here at 24. Anybody else, any other positions that you think are worth mentioning for the Browns?

48:34Robert Mays: Where there are some teams where they've been hard to pin down in the first round. The Browns two first round picks just seems like receiver tackle in some order. Receiver tackle is where the Browns need to go here. No, I'm not going to stray too far. It's receiver tackle. And I think it's a good year to do it. Right. That's why it's because those are stronger positions relative to the rest of the quote unquote value positions in the NFL. And so, yeah, just take receiver tackle. We can worry about, you know, maybe getting a slot cornerback or maybe getting some help. Maybe another edge rusher, I think, in this building could help, too.

49:08But that's where we're looking right now.

49:10Robert Mays: So the idea that Lomu is potentially the safest pass protector among this group, and you would feel the best about him just being there on day one. I completely understand that we're doing the offensive tackles on tomorrow's show with Brandon Thorne and Dane. And so I've been working through those guys. And I understand landing there. on a shore i just watch him though and i'm like if you have it's it's so easy as somebody who is not in the chair to pick him over the other guys because i just think that if you connect on that guy the ceiling is crazy high and you can understand why there's still a gap between what he is and what he can be the fact that he came so late to the sport there's like there's rawness but there's rawness that you can kind of explain away and get over like i just think the combination of everything he's bringing to the table if you're a team that again maybe can develop him for a year or feel like you're in a spot where you feel really good about your offensive line coach he's just the type of like bundle of traits a hundred short from my arizona state that like it's just hard not to get really excited about what the best version of him looks like 100 but the thing is like i want a strong offensive line coach if i'm drafting if i do yeah i would take him shoot top 15 you know if i really trusted you know if you had a jeff stoutland or bill callahan it's like yeah okay he's got that guy's going to be special but if you don't it's like you might be here three years from now and you might not be comfortable starting them or be having to protect them or whatever but i thought i was i remember watching his tape first rankings come out i'm like yeah this guy's a first round tackle like look at watch him move um and then some people got way higher on him than me.

50:52And I'm like, I mean, he's an amazing athlete, but when you draft a guy in the first round, that guy is probably going to play for most teams. That's why I thought like for the, you know, for the Eagles, it's an interesting one for, for teams that can kind of red shirt them. It's an interesting option. You know, maybe the Cowboys, he's an interesting in play there at pick 20, but if you got to start them in there right away, we're having a much different conversation.

51:18Robert Mays: Let's get to the Chicago bears at 25. I'm going to open this up a little bit just because my first option was going to be draft Keldrick Folk. And I, if I, if I were as a bears fan, I think that just, I don't like it. I just don't like it as an option because what they need is pass rush juice. Even if I think he does check a lot of boxes when it comes to the length that Dennis Allen teams typically like at edge, all of that stuff. I, the past, the lack of pass rush productivity, even if he does make sense in some other ways. It would just drive me crazy as a fan of a team that desperately needs pass rush help.

51:55Robert Mays: So let's just open it up to draft your favorite edge rusher here for the Bears with option number one. Option number two is draft Emanuel McNeer Warren if he is available. You could potentially, this draft specifically for the Bears, safety I think is probably the biggest need they have on the entire roster just for like a day one starter right now. But we've talked about this. safety is a position where you can wait into the second round and they have two second round picks. And so they don't necessarily need to show a lot of urgency at safety in the first round. But I still think McNeil Warren is worth discussing as an option here.

52:29Robert Mays: Option number three was going to be draft Peter Woods, because I get I just think they need a difference maker up front, no matter which position he plays. He's gone already. So let's just open that up to draft your top available defensive tackle with Woods off the board. So edge rusher, Emmanuel McNeil-Warren, defensive tackle. And then there is another position. Again, I think this is a sneaky offensive line team if we want to talk about that as well. So pass rusher, McNeil-Warren, draft your best defensive tackle. I know we can talk about the offensive tackle option later. Was at Alabama's Pro Day, which if you know their prospects, which prospect would he be looking at at Alabama's Pro Day?

53:06It was probably Caden Proctor. So I do think that's in play. I think safety's in play, but I don't think Emmanuel McNeil-Warners is the safety they're going for. I was on, I was talking with Greg Gabriel. He does Shrine Bowl scouting with me. And he's like, they want, they turn their safety room over because they want more range. They want guys who are back end, whatever. And this is great class for 57 or 60 guys like Genesis Smith, guys like Bud Clark. Like there are coverage athletes that are going to be there that, you know, again, we talked about Emmanuel McNeil-Warner earlier. That's not really his game.

53:38So I don't think he's... You can go into Kobe Bryant.

53:40Robert Mays: You can just see me. He's a converted corner. I mean, just like the range that Kobe Bryant plays with. You can see them already kind of drifting in that direction. That's what they want. And that's why they got rid of their room from last year. So I don't think I'm taking one here. Thineman, if he was here, sure. Dylan Thineman's the guy. Not a male McNeil Warren, even if I'm a little bit higher on Warren than Thineman. So honestly, this is... I like Hakeem Mesidor here for this team because their window is tomorrow. And as much as I love Austin Booker, I'm like, Austin Booker probably is better as a third down guy or just like a pass rush down guy than Mesidor can be an early down guy.

54:16And then also he can kick inside on third downs. The guy played second most snaps in college football this past year. He doesn't come off the football field. He can be a every down sort of guy for you and then be an interior pass rusher where he cut his teeth at West Virginia. So Mesidor is the one for me, for the Bears, where if you're going to draft an edge rusher at this point. Yeah, it's not a long-term move. I mean, his career length is his rookie contract, basically. But this is a guy that can change this team's fortune overnight. And that's, you know, they're there. They're at the precipice.

54:49They just need a guy right now.

54:51Robert Mays: And we didn't mention, Dio Dengbo tore his Achilles on November 3rd. And so what his return timeline looks like, there is an argument that Austin Booker is somebody you may need to play on early downs early in the season if Dengbo is still working back, considering how the rest of that room looks. And so having somebody that can contribute right away, can give you a little bit of pass rush juice, can bump inside potentially if necessary. I think all of those things make sense. And I do think it's an interesting kind of contrast, again, between drafting a guy like him and drafting a guy like Falk, where even if you can make an argument that the upside with Falk is higher and you're more interested in the runway for a team in this exact position and considering the timeline, I think it's telling that if they drafted Mesador, I'd be like, I understand the limitations, but I still think it's an exciting pick.

55:36Robert Mays: And if they drafted Falk, I'd be like, son of a ****, seriously? Like, this is what you're going with here? And so, again, we shouldn't be letting the emotionality of the fan base dictate how these picks are going, but I think in this particular instance, there's a little bit of signal in it. Oh, 100%. I mean, like, there's, yes, because I do believe in drafting for, you know, the draft is, yes, long-term moves, but you draft for where you're at as a franchise, and you can make some shorter term moves when you have a shorter term window. So I'm all for a move like this. Offensive tackle, it's one of those things where if they drafted an offensive tackle at 25, my response would be, I'd be frustrated that it's necessary.

56:20Robert Mays: Like that would be, that's how I would respond to them drafting an offensive tackle at 25. Like I cannot believe they've had to spend a first or second round pick in multiple years on offensive tackles because of how this played out. But I could also understand believing this is what you have to do. Like, if you don't think Trapil is going to be back until 2027 at the very earliest and you don't know what he's going to be, and you do think that you have a couple-year timeline to actually get this thing done, are you going to feel better about the state of your roster if you have that spot at left tackle locked down over the next two years than anything else you could do with that first-round pick?

56:56Robert Mays: I do think that's a justifiable way of thinking about it, even if it's an extremely frustrating place to have landed, considering the way the last couple of years have played out. Yeah, I mean, a third and then a second and then a first and three straight drafts to just find one guy. The way this tackle class fell, though, I would not want to, I wouldn't take Ihanich or I wouldn't take, I wouldn't take right side guys and say, hey, you're a left side guy now right away and think that that's going to fix it. I would probably, like I said, I'd lean Mesidor over probably pretty much anyone here. this is my galaxy brain thought.

57:31Robert Mays: They signed Braxton Jones to that one-year deal. Braxton Jones could potentially play early. Are we in a spot where you move Ahanichor over to the left side all offseason? You let him learn for the first half of the year. You drop him in there, and now you have Ahanichor, Tooney, whoever you drafted, and it'll be Bradbury for this year, but then whoever you drafted center in the third round. And then on the right side, you have Jonah Jackson and Darnell Wright, and you've got those two with a Hanachor on the left side, and you just say, like, this is what we are. This is what we are for the next three years, like, whatever.

58:09Robert Mays: We are going to commit to this, then double down. I actually do. I can get excited about that as, like, a plan. It's not hard for me to get there pretty quickly. I mean, whoever drafts Maxie Hanachor, their fan base is going to be buzzing, right? right? Like he, he, he is a very easy prospect to get excited about. Now he might not be buzzing in November when, you know, you're having to chip every time on past place, but like, it's very easy to talk yourself into what he could be. So yeah, I mean, a honcho is a, he's, he's a very intriguing prospect. All right. Let's run through these very quickly at 19.

58:44Robert Mays: Omar Cooper, Jr. Going to the Carolina Panthers. Every time I think about that one, I like it more At 20, Avian Terrell going to the Dallas Cowboys, the cornerback from Clemson. At 21, this is definitely the wrench in this, but I completely understand why we landed here. Ty Simpson, the quarterback from Alabama, going to the Pittsburgh Steelers. 22, Peter Woods from Clemson going to the Chargers. 23, Monroe Freeling, the tackle from Georgia going to the Eagles. 24. For whatever reason, the Monroe Freeling, Blake Miller thing is just, I don't understand why I keep getting those two mixed up in my head, but I do.

59:22Robert Mays: So we got Monroe Freeling going to the Eagles at 23. Caleb Lomu from Utah going to the Browns at 24. Akeem Mesidor, the pass rusher from Miami, going to the Bears at 25. Any of these that you particularly like? I mean, I really like the Omar Cooper one. I think that the Panthers, it's like, just trust the process. You know, it's a lot of wide receivers in the first round. It's a lot of draft capital. But that is a top, gosh, five receiving core very, very soon if you draft a guy like Omar Cooper. And then I think I love the way the board played for the Eagles, getting Monroe Freeling. Now, will he fall there?

59:59Probably not. But, like, if you got Monroe Freeling to replace Lane Johnson to—was Lane the number one RAS? I know I saw Monroe Freeling was number two RAS. all time like he might be you you might have number one and number two ras because those guys are specimens so what better of an offensive tackle to learn behind than lane johnson for him the only

1:00:20Robert Mays: mark where lane doesn't the only two marks where lane doesn't uh clock in at like the 99th percentile are heightened weight those those are the only two 34 inch vertical 9 10 broad 4 7 2 40 1 6 8 10 yard split four five two shuttle and then a seven three one three cone at six six he just all time all time freak of nature i mean like there's very few guys have ever walked into the nfl draft that look and move like lane johnson and what he was ot3 that year somehow i mean just one of the weirder drafts in recent memory but it one that clearly worked out for the philadelphia eagles i mean there was a little bit of projection right where it was like ah you know he just he had played with.

1:01:08Robert Mays: He was a tight end, right? He was like a quarterback and tight end. Yeah. It was just one of those things, but a very, very strong lesson in just draft the athlete. And there is a potential as far as this exercise goes for the Eagles to be doing that again with Monroe Freeling. Mike, please tell the people where they can check out all of the excellent draft work that you are doing over there on CBS. Yeah, go to cbssports.com. Check out my draft board. I got some articles coming up. I got a notebook coming up next week of all kind of like my off the wall thoughts on this draft class. I think it's going to be pretty interesting.

1:01:42So go ahead and check that out.

1:01:43Robert Mays: All right. That's all we've got for today. Building the beast will be your guys's way tomorrow. And then like I alluded to, we are going to be talking a little bit of offensive line on Thursday show. Very excited about that for now. That's all we got. Appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you guys very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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