Our biggest questions heading into training camp

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0:38Robert Mays: It's why we're ranked number one in innovation and number two in employability among U.S. public universities. Future-proof your career. Explore more than 350 programs at asuonline.asu.edu. That's a degree better. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Training camp is mostly here. It's had some teams start last week, teams in the Hall of Fame game, teams that are starting their seasons a little bit early. Everyone will be ramping up practice over the next couple days here. So on the eve of training camp starting in earnest, me and Dave wanted to spend some time just digging into the biggest questions we have with training camp now getting going.

1:20Robert Mays: New schemes, new players, injured guys coming back. Where's it going to happen with Aaron Donald? This show hit all of that stuff, went a bunch of different directions. A lot of intrigue as the season gets going for everybody. So let's get to those questions with me and Dave right now.

1:46Robert Mays: Training camp is officially upon us. really everyone's getting started over the next couple days. And so we'll be having tons of news coming our way as teams report, as we get coaches and players back in front of microphones. We check in with everybody. So as we ramp up here, Dave and I want to spend a little bit of time just going through the biggest questions we have heading into training camp. And this is a wide net. This is going to be positional battles. This is going to be certain units. It's really no parameters on this. Just whatever is piquing your curiosity as we get into one of the more exciting times in the NFL calendar.

2:26Robert Mays: Let's just get into it, buddy. What's your first one? So I got a pretty long list, and I did my best to turn over as many stones as I could. I've got some under-the-radar ones. I've got some goofy ones. And this was not the first thing that came to my mind when I started thinking about what I wanted to know. But the more I sat on it, the crazier I thought it was and the more I wanted to talk about it. And it's ironic because it's arguably the biggest name in the entire NFL. But the reporting coming from our friend Albert Breer right now is that Patrick Mahomes is going to be cleared to go like on day one of camp.

3:08and I'm just fascinated by what that looks like and how the Chiefs handle it and what in God's name is going on how is a man who tore a bunch of shit in his knee on December 14th ready for the start of training camp and how are the Chiefs going to handle that I just I think it's incredible and for a guy who's accomplished what Patrick Mahomes has it adds a layer of intrigue to his training camp. Like I'm not usually, I'm not usually thinking about Patrick Mahomes in August, but I will be this year. And I think that's really interesting.

3:44Robert Mays: So that'd be what it's almost like seven and a half months, almost eight months by the time training camp actually gets going. It's not quite eight though. And that's what makes it so impressive. Like this guy's rehab was incredible. Clearly if he's already, and I know, you know, the chiefs aren't going to throw him in the deep end on quarterback is kind of a, yeah, it's, I mean, you can really slow play training camp if you want to, I guess that's my only thing where it's like, maybe he's not Wolverine. Maybe this isn't 2012 Adrian Peterson quite yet. I still think it's impressive that he's not going to be on PUP to start camp.

4:19And I would expect he'll be doing stuff in practice and just watching how all that goes, I think is going to, it's going to give me more of a reason to have an eye on Chiefs camp than I typically would.

4:30Robert Mays: And I'll say this beyond what he looks like and how healthy he is in the workload that he's getting. That's one of the units where I'm like, what sort of inklings can we get about whether things are going to look a little bit different for them this year? Because you look at the personnel changes and there really weren't any, they go get Kenneth Walker and free agency. That's the big move that they make. And so I think the question hovering over all of some of this is, are we, is the offense going to look any different? Are we going to have a more diversified run game? Is Eric Biennemi going to come back into this thing after spending some time in Chicago in a very different offensive system?

5:04Robert Mays: And are they going to implement some of that stuff? Is it going to look a lot like it has over the last couple years? So you're never going to know all of that before the games actually start, but those are the types of things where you're looking for little clues as practice happens and pick up things from our excellent Chiefs writers that we have down there. They have a fantastic press score. So just that's one of the things I got an eye on is like, do we have any sense of how different the Chiefs offense will look along with Patrick Mahomes being healthier than we might have expected? The fun wrinkle, too, that I'm curious about, and this will be for deeper in camp when the preseason games start, but Patrick Mahomes is famous for being a very active participant in the preseason.

5:49And it's a yearly refrain where, I mean, he's he's played in multiple preseason games every year of his career, even when he had already won the MVPs and the Super Bowls. He's playing in like two of the three. And how does that work this year? And it's very every single year. People are like, well, if Patrick Mahomes is getting in there for some preseason work, what's your excuse? And I'm sure he's going to want to do it this year. He's a highly competitive guy. I bet you he's going to want to show that he can handle a full workload, but he is getting a little bit older. He's clearly coming off of a major injury.

6:27How do the Chiefs handle that? Like they have always put a big emphasis on getting ready for the season and not letting their starters be rusty. Are you still willing to do that if your quarterback is coming off of a major injury? I'm curious to see.

6:41Robert Mays: Sticking the AFC, one of the first team I wanted to talk about is a follow-up to a conversation we had earlier this week. I want to know how the Jags skill position spots are going to shake out over the course of training camp. So you have the Jacoby Myers trade in the middle of last season. He helps unlock the offense. Parker Washington really comes on in the second half. what does that mean for how things shake out if they're in some heavier looks you draft you draft Nate Borkutcher in the second round you extend Bretton Strange so I assume we'll see more multi multi-tenant looks for the Jags in those looks who's the odd man out among the receivers like what does that rotation look like and then coming off of this I want to see how the backfield shakes out I want to be very clear about what we were talking about earlier this week my comment about basial tootin and chris rodriguez was totally in jest like i have no fully formed thoughts about what the rotation for the jags backfield is going to look like i don't know i'm going to be like the rest of you over the next month trying to figure out every little signal i can about what that's going to look like because it's ambiguous in a way that can be fertile for fantasy i have no answers here so just want to be very clear about that that was a joke earlier this week about a potentially funny outcome about how this could shake out after we're obsessed about basal tootin all summer.

8:00It's very interesting for this, from the standpoint of replacing Travis H and, and obviously somebody is going to get the lion's share of the touches in the Jags backfield. But I am, I am begging y 'all don't, don't put too much of your time or self worth on figuring out this pecking order, especially based on like training camp reps. Like, please, please. You gotta though.

8:24Robert Mays: if you're looking for edges this time of year, if you're playing some fantasy football, you gotta don't post things into my timeline. When LaQuint Allen has a nice training camp run and be like, RB one, I've said it since March. Like we don't, we don't need that. And you might be right, but I just, I think it's a fool's errand to try to figure it out based on training camp reps, at least wait for the preseason games. Just in general, I'm excited about what this offense looks like in year two. Obviously they really came on strong in the back half of last year, They're throwing the ball. They figure out what they wanted their identity to look like.

8:56Robert Mays: They go out and make some moves to, I think, diversify, evolve, kind of tweak the overall identity with the types of backs they have, the types of personnel that they can use. And so what this group looks like in Jacksonville in year two under Liam Cohen, very interested to see how that ends up shaking out. Having just said that I don't want to pay too much attention to what the running backs do, I'll be watching the clips to see the connection with BTJ and Trevor Lawrence and see if that looks better and the chemistry looks better and the role looks more consistent in year two. And as long as we're talking about the Jags, just roll everything we said about Travis Hunter last summer into training camp this year as well, because he's so true.

9:38He's coming off of an injury. We only got to see half the season, if that. And there, as you might expect, being kind of coy about what the workload is going to be for him. So I'm just as interested in Travis Hunter content this summer as I was last.

9:55Robert Mays: Jags training camp is the number one. In terms of my own personal battles during camp, me and the sun in Jacksonville is like in the top three. It's a constant effort. It's a journey and a battle to find the shade throughout that two-hour football practice, depending on what field they're on. So I'm always looking forward to that. It's always one of my favorite parts of the summer. training camp in a state that touches the Gulf is best of luck, buddy. Bring, bring sunblock, bring, bring an umbrella. I don't know. I sympathize with you. What's your next one? Where do I want to go next? Okay. I, a few of mine are quarterback centric, but I'll, we can get to that in a minute.

10:37I want to, I think it's, you have to. One very specific position battle that has nothing to do with the quarterback. Is I want to see how the Seahawks running back depth charge shakes out as long as we're talking about running backs. And what's interesting to me here is like, I'm not so much trying to figure out usage based on training camp reps, but just how much do the Seahawks trust Jadarian Price and how quickly can he take that job and run with it? I think there is always a predisposition to get excited about a first round pick and for good reason. but training camp is where the rubber meets the road in terms of proving how ready you are for the NFL role and I don't think that's going to be super sexy in a training camp setting for us to digest from a distance but how good is Jadarian Price at pass pro and stuff like that could go a long way toward determining the splits and then on top of that I just I think it's easy to gloss over a guy like Emmanuel Wilson, but the Seahawks prioritized him and brought him in knowing that Zach Charbonnet was going to be out for a while.

11:47And before they drafted Jadarian Price, they did that for a reason. And so how does that pecking order shake shape up? George Helani is still there as well. And even if Charbonnet comes along really, really well, I'd still imagine you're going to be getting by without him for a month or so. I saw Seattle put him on PUP officially earlier this week. So these three guys, it looks like they're going to have a chance to take the job and run with it. You would hope that the first round pick has a big, big say in that. But sometimes this stuff doesn't go exactly the way we think it will.

12:22Robert Mays: There's some interesting news with the PUP stuff for them this week. Emin Wari was on there as well, because I think he had like an ankle thing at some point this offseason. But it sounds like he'll be back relatively soon, even if he's starting training camp on it. But Seattle's offense overall is one I think we haven't really discussed much simply because a lot of these other new coordinators were interested in what the changes are going to look like. You know, how is this going to be different than what they were doing last year because they're changing things up on purpose, right? We're going to a different scheme because we want to feel a little bit different on offense.

12:53Robert Mays: The Seahawks hired somebody from the Niners. I think, and my instinct when looking at that is they want to do a lot of the same things, but who knows? I mean, I'm sure there's going to be a different flavor to what the Brian Fleury version of the Seahawks offense looks like compared to what the Clint Kubiak version looked like. And I think that because it's the same offensive system, I think it's easy to talk yourself into. I'm sure it'll be pretty good. And that's why they'll be one of the best teams in the league again. But we know the defense is going to be great. And so the offense keeping up its end of the bargain goes a long way in determining whether the Seahawks are one of those like true top of the league contenders again.

13:31Robert Mays: And so I assume it'll be fine, but it's just a unit we haven't really talked much about because the schematic DNA is going to be the same. It's hard to project schematic stuff, but I am so optimistic about the Seahawks offense because of continuity. I mean, really, the only major change on the entire unit is at running back, which I think if you had to pick a position to have massive turnover at, that would probably be the one, especially since they took the swing of drafting a running back in the first round. So they seem very well equipped to handle losing Walker and, and not having Charbonnet for a while, but continuity all over the offensive line, they brought back Rashid Shahid.

14:13So, you know, he'll have more time. It's a new offense, obviously, but more time with Sam Darnold and in that rotation of receivers. So I hear you that obvious, like the, the play caller is different. The scheme is different, but, The amount of continuity here gives me optimism that this could look really good.

14:32Robert Mays: And even there are some guys that are probably going to have bigger roles than they did at the end of last season. I think that's interesting. You mentioned Rashid Jaheed. He now has an entire offseason to get onboarded. Torrey Horton coming back after flashing a little bit early in his rookie year. And then how much does Elijah Arroyo's role increase in year two? And so I think there's going to be a little bit of a different flavor in the players and how they're featured beyond whatever different feel we get from a different offensive coordinator and a different play caller. Torrey Horton is like a fun cameo in a movie that you loved that you forgot about.

15:05Like the Seahawks won the Super Bowl. So by the time you get there, you're not thinking about Torrey Horton at all. And when we circled back to this time of year, you're like, oh, yeah, he looked really fun for a while. Like, this is great.

15:16Robert Mays: I also just think Mike McDonald, the choice of Clint Kubiak, why he went with Clint Kubiak, When you have a defensive coach that's as good as Mike McDonald, I'm always interested in what he wants and the choices he makes on the other side of the ball. He chose Brian Fleury for a reason. There's something about his vision and what he wants to do that was appealing to the best defensive coach in the league, and I'm really curious about what that version of the offense looks like. Sticking with just some scheme changes and what they might mean for their teams this year, what do the Ravens' offense and Bills' defense look like?

15:50Robert Mays: what do those two units look like like those to me are maybe the two most intriguing ones in the entire NFL you've been beating this drum all offseason and I completely understand why but yes when you have changeover at positions like that for teams with the expectation that those two carry I completely understand why but I appreciate your consistency I just am so interested in what the vision is and what the feel of both of those groups is under new play callers. The Bills' defense specifically, the Ravens' offense has changed a bunch, even since Lamar Jackson became the starter. I mean, you go from the Greg Roman offense to the Todd Monken offense, and that's a significant shift, and I think that they benefited from that shift initially.

16:34Robert Mays: But we've seen different versions of the Ravens' offense since Lamar Jackson took over. we haven't really seen different versions of the bills defense in the Josh Allen era I mean there have been small tweaks here and there but for the most part you're playing the way that Sean McDermott wants to play and there's been a lot of through lines from the time that system was established in 2017 until last year and so this is going to be the first time in a long time where you're doing something drastically different on that side of the ball and if you can expect that the Bills offense is still going to be pretty darn good, which I do.

17:09Robert Mays: I think that what happens with their defense is going to be one of the biggest swing points in the entire league. It is. It's easy. And I think I've said this on previous shows this summer when we've talked about the Bills and I do still believe it, but it's just kind of easy to place the Bills on divisional weekend and say, come hell or high water, they're probably going to be there or at least be in that sort of mix. but it is, you know, like you take for granted that the defensive play caller was the same guy for so many years and the DNA of who the bills want to be, particularly on the defensive side of the ball was one way.

17:49And so much of the bill's success is because of Josh Allen. It's easy to forget that. And so it is, it is worth being really excited about how different this can look even. And I know they've changed out some of the personnel. Chubb is there now. My guy, Dee Alford, who I'm really excited about. But just having a new mind back there, I think, like, it deserves more shine than maybe I've given it credit for at times.

18:17Robert Mays: I just think it was one of the most kind of, and again, there were small tweaks here and there, and the coverages they would play, the amount of blitzing they would do, all of that stuff, did change at times when Sean McDermott was there. And the play caller changed. I mean, Bobby Babich was doing it for a little while. they were going back and forth but the structure was always very similar this is like mostly like a four down team that put a lot of zone coverage and I'm just interested how much change is going to happen and how much could they benefit from that change and then in Baltimore I think it's not necessarily about a change in quality and like what that means for the overall ceiling or viability of the Ravens offense like we've seen them be one of the best units in the league under the previous regime and under the previous structure.

18:59I think it's more so just a curiosity of what Declan Doyle wants to do, what that means

19:05Robert Mays: from Lamar Jackson. Like, are we going to be in a place where we're under center a ton with Lamar Jackson at quarterback? Is this going to look like the Bears offense did last year? Is that a good thing for the Ravens? I just have so many questions about how that's all going to play out. I have a lot of optimism for it for a bunch of different reasons. Like, I do think that there's a chance it's a really fun group, but we have no idea what the final product is going to be because you're going to even if you can take a lot of the ideas that we saw in Chicago last year, Lamar Jackson has been a different sort of quarterback than Caleb Williams for a majority of his career up to this point.

19:40I'm really curious about how my opinion of the Ravens offense could change just with the tweaks that they've made and the fact that they have a new play caller. Because you look at it, I think you're drawn so much to the playmakers that it's like you lose both. You lose two of your three tight ends. They drafted two receivers. I guess we'll see Jacoby Lane and Elijah Surratt are worth having an eye on. And we'll see how much they can crack into meaningful snaps. But really, the heavy lifting of the offensive work is that they swapped out the entire interior. And I don't think we've talked since they officially signed Ethan Posick last week.

20:23But so clearly, they wanted to do at least a little bit more work at the center position. And so I wonder, like, how much of a buoying effect that can have. because it's easy to look at this and say, ah, do you feel good enough about the receivers? Do you feel good about the tight end depth chart, especially where Mark Andrews is at this point in his career? But man, if Vanga Juane is a stud and the interior of this offensive line clicks together, I'm like, this could be a hell of a lot better than maybe I've given it credit for when I've thought about the Ravens over the course of the offseason.

20:58Robert Mays: The personnel is a great thing to bring up. I mean, this is the first year where Patrick Ricard won't be on the Ravens. Patrick Ricard drove a huge portion of why the Ravens felt like they did. Remember when we had Charlie Kohler on earlier this summer, and we were talking about the Ravens' flavor of 21 and 12 personalities. Well, we had Patrick Ricard. Now, Patrick Ricard changes so much of that. And even beyond that, when you look at the tight end room in general, it was always Mark Andrews and then a guy like Isaiah Likely over the last four years where you have two primary pass-catching tight ends along with a third tight end that is more of a blocker and then Ricard.

21:34Robert Mays: Now Durham Smythe is their number two tight end. And so it's kind of a more traditional tight end room, the way that it's put together. And like you said, what are the power of the pass catchers going to shake out? Like what sort of role does Elijah Surratt have? So I'm very interested in what the overall evolution of the Ravens offense looks like from the play caller to the players. And like you said, the interior is considerably different. And what does that ultimately mean? All right, let's take our first quick break here and then come back and chat through a few more of these.

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23:31All right.

23:32Robert Mays: What is your next big question as we kick off training camp for most of the league today? This is actually my number one burning question. And maybe it's just because I'm invested in, in the guy that they hired to potentially solve their quarterback problem. but I'm dying to know how real all this noise in Minnesota is about a quarterback competition. Like, is this, is this lip service or should I actually take this seriously? Cause I'll be honest with you all through the spring and up until June, when we brought up the idea of a quarterback competition, I'm just like, stop. Like, come on. We, we saw what it looked like with JJ last year.

24:17You brought in Kyler Murray for a reason. And Kyler Murray's not signing unless he's reasonably confident he's going to be the starter. But then you get into the summer and Kevin O 'Connell is talking about making a decision in time to give the starter time to get ready for the season. People are asking Scotty Scheffler questions about it this week because he partnered with Kevin O 'Connell at a golf tournament. And I'm just like, all right, do I need to take this seriously or is this kind of a fait accompli? And if I had to guess today, I think Kyler Murray is going to be the Vikings starter, but there's enough smoke coming out of there that I'm starting to get curious that this could actually be up for grabs.

24:58That's a worthwhile question.

24:59Robert Mays: And I think if Kyler Murray is the guy, what does that look like? Like, what does Kyler Murray look like in the Vikings offense? And how much run does he get as the getting of the first team reps to give us an idea of what that offense is going to look like if and when that competition ends, if it ever exists in the first place. Well, I'm glad you said that because remember, Kyler even had a comment in the spring about, you know, it kind of sucks rotating and I don't feel like I'm getting consistently the amount of reps that you would prefer. And that's my whole thing is if Kyler Murray is the guy, then come on, man, you're going to spend a week or two or potentially more than that limiting the number of reps that he can get in this offense, doing what Kevin O 'Connell wants him to and working with the starting receivers, et cetera.

25:49I don't like that. And so I, yeah, like for every, not going to write off JJ McCarthy entirely, but if you think it's plausible or likely that Kyler Murray is going to wind up being the starter, like let's not drag this thing out too far because I think you're only hindering yourself when you're talking about him coming into a new offense. But like I said, I rolled my eyes at this for a long time. And now that we're here at training camp, I'm like, all right, this, they're committed to the bit. If nothing else.

26:22Robert Mays: Sticking in Minnesota, the last thing I'm curious about, mostly about the offense is with Frank Smith now there. And I don't know what his exact title is. He's one, you know, the nebulous senior advisor that we see on all of these staffs, but I senior consultant, Frank Smith, Vikings. What are we looking at right here? Assistant head coach. so okay still pretty nebulous but I assume that this is gonna mean he has a big role in what the run game looks like uh coming from Miami and what they've done over the last few years he's a former offensive line coach I my assumption is he will absolutely be a part of what the run game ideation is for Minnesota and that's been consistently one of the issues with this team we've gone back to it a lot over the last few years is that even when they've been really explosive running the ball or explosive throwing the ball, the run game has kind of lagged behind consistently.

27:18Robert Mays: And they need to get that thing clicked into place independent of who the quarterback is going to be. And the other side of that is the offensive line was supposed to be a much improved group last year after all the investments that they made in it. That group never really came together for a bunch of reasons. Christian Derrissaw missed the beginning of the season. Then he was banged up during the season. You lose Ryan Kelly at one point. So if that group is healthier and we have a run game that feels a little bit more solid and put together than it has over the last few years, along with the quarterback change, is that the other element that helps the best version of the Vikings offense come together?

27:56Mond Claiborne is a guy that I will be cycling through Vikings preseason games to see his snaps. Like, all right, let's turn on the third quarter of the Vikings preseason game and see what old DeMond Claiborne out of Wake Forest is doing because I'm not saying he's coming for anybody's job, but the guy's got juice.

28:17Robert Mays: How long is Jordan Mason under contract? Is this his last year under contract? Yeah. Jordan Mason's a free agent after this year, and Aaron Jones is how old? He's getting up there, man. Yeah, 31. I think he was drafted in 17. Age 32 season for Aaron Jones. My God, we're getting old. I vividly remember when Aaron Jones was the exciting, why isn't this guy getting more touches player in the NFL? So that was like 10 years ago at this point. All right, so sticking with quarterbacks, what is the quarterback competition? You could put that in quotes if you want to. Looked like in Minnesota was one of mine, but then the other team was Atlanta.

28:53Robert Mays: What happens with Atlanta's quarterback situation? And I'm asking that for a few reasons. I don't think the answer matters that much for the overall quality of the Falcons offense and the success during their season. I think it's more about stylistically how different the offenses would feel with each of those quarterbacks. And so I'm just curious what version of the Falcons offense I should anticipate watching this year based on who the quarterback is. that's an interesting question that takes me in a completely different place where for all my concerns with Tua and I've talked plenty about how his injury history and the way that he looked at tail end of last year I'd be hesitant to sign him for any amount of money he's still proven himself to be way better and on a way more consistent level than Michael Penix like I I think I feel better about what Tua is bringing to the table in 2026 especially considering Penix is coming off of an injury too.

29:57Last year was pretty ugly, man. It was. Last year was pretty ugly.

30:03Robert Mays: I understand what you're saying. If you look at the body of work, undeniably. I mean, Tua has been the quarterback for multiple top 10 offenses when he was working with Mike McDaniel, but last year was pretty ugly, and I don't know. I think that you can talk yourself into maybe a more reliable, predictable version of the offense with Tua. and maybe a more exciting, explosive version of the offense with Michael Penix. So I think it's just going to depend on what version you want. Tua, reliable and consistent, but how good is it? Yeah, I'm not under any illusions about where Tua was last year, but I still think it's the more proven commodity.

30:43My thing with Tua and Penix, the thing that interests me is, so in Minnesota, Kevin O 'Connell, we don't have to litigate it right now, but Kevin O 'Connell was part of the decision to draft J.J. McCarthy. It still looks good on Kevin O 'Connell if J.J. McCarthy has NFL success. Stefanski and everybody and the change coming in in Atlanta with Matt Ryan getting there and Ian Cunningham at general manager, like the page has been turned at every level from the people that brought in Michael Penix. There's no obligation to give him a serious shot at the starting job if that's not what they want to do.

31:21And obviously he's coming off of an injury. We'll see how quickly he can get into practice and get up to speed. I hope Michael Penix factors into the conversation, but my main interest in it from Atlanta standpoint is how much of a competition is it anyway? Because the Falcons new brass identified to a, as a guy that they were comfortable moving forward with, there's a lot less obligation to give the old guards quarterback a chance if they don't want to, But maybe Michael Panix could force their hand. Who knows?

31:53Robert Mays: That's precisely why if I were handicapping it right now, I would say that Tua has the inside track to get the job for that exact reason. I mean, this group has no obligation to Michael Panix. They did not choose Michael Panix. And I think that having a quarterback, you feel like, all right, I think I know what I'm getting here, even if it's limited. I can understand that being more appealing. for a group that I think understands they're in stasis a little bit anyway. We've talked about that a lot this offseason where it's like, let's just kind of figure out what we want to be on offense. Let's figure out what we have in all of these guys.

32:28Robert Mays: Let's make sure that even if the quarterback is a little bit limited, is he the guy that can get the most out of the playmakers, which are the best part of this roster? I do see the appeal to that line of thinking and to that approach, even if it maybe is a little bit less exciting in the end. what's your next one? Let's just empty the quarterback clip. I've got one more. I guess we don't have to get into it in detail. I'll have my eye on Daniel Jones recovery from injury the same way that I do with Patrick Mahomes. That kind of goes without saying. The other big one that I'm curious about is the Raiders have done a phenomenal job of laying the track for Kirk cousins to have this job.

33:10And we're cool. letting Fernando Mendoza sit all year if Kirk Cousins plays well enough, and that's fine with us. And we think quarterbacks need to develop. Maybe Tom Brady being there has something to do with that because he's old school and that's how it was when he came into the league. It sounds really good, but a, since he left Minnesota, Kirk Cousins has not been consistently good enough to war off a number one overall pick anyway. But also Robert, here's my toxic take. Like I'm all in favor of player development and it's fine. If you don't want to give these guys too much too soon. And I'm not saying you got to be great on day one.

33:50I get all that, but my toxic trait still a little bit is like, if we drafted you number one and you've started 36 games in college and you just won the Heisman trophy, I'm hoping I see something during training camp that makes me second guess whether I want you on the bench. I think it's okay to have that type of expectation for Fernando Mendoza.

34:14Robert Mays: Let's go back and forth about this stuff. Because my natural inclination is to protect the quarterback and to protect the developmental path of the quarterback. I think it was Albert Breer was talking about it this week where the Raiders have seen some of the really negative experiences young quarterbacks have had early in the league and the impact it's had on those guys. and they don't want that to happen to Fernando Mendoza. And I understand that. I also think most of those situations, the situation around the quarterback, not just the talent. I mean, obviously the Raiders are not the most talented offense ever.

34:49Robert Mays: Even if we talked about how the scheme might help Jack Besh this year, earlier this week, there are still questions about the pass catchers for the Raiders. The offensive line, even if the situation should be better because of the system that they're playing in, There's still a lot of question marks with the young players along that offensive line. But I do think that I have a lot more faith in Clint Kubiak and the floor he creates is or is going to create than I have for a lot of the other quarterbacks drafted number one overall recently. Like I have more faith in this situation than I did in what Caleb Williams is walking into with Matty Urflus.

35:24Robert Mays: I have more faith in this situation than what Trevor Lawrence was walking into with the Jacksonville Jaguars. I have more faith in this situation than what Bryce Young was walking into with Frank Reich under year one. Famous last words. Like we've seen guys that were good play callers not be able to replicate it when they become the head coach. But I do think that the floor of this is higher than it has been for a lot of number one overall picks. And that means the downside to him getting some experience and the scars that might come from it. I'm less afraid of it in the Raiders situation than I have been for a lot of other quarterbacks recently.

35:56It's a much more eloquent way of making my point. And for the record, if if it doesn't click for Fernando Mendoza, if he really does spend time or even the whole season on the bench in 2026, that doesn't mean he's a bust or a disappointment or any of that. But I just think it reminds me a little bit of Cam Ward last year where Fernando Mendoza is just not getting the pop or the pub that a number one overall pick at quarterback who did what he did should. in my opinion.

36:27Robert Mays: In fairness, though, the team is the one pumping the brakes. The team is the one being like, hey, don't get excited about this. So you're right. And that's why I think it's OK to put some expectation on Fernando Mendoza and say, this guy might get to camp and make you and say, hey, screw you. Watch this. And all of a sudden, by the end of August into September, we're like this. What are we doing? We don't need to see four weeks of Kirk Cousins. And so I hope that's what happens for Fernando Mendoza because I like him so much as a player. It doesn't mean that he's a bust or a disappointment if that doesn't happen.

37:05But I'm not willing to buy this just yet that the Raiders are like, oh, he needs a year off. I don't I don't buy. I don't subscribe to that just yet.

37:14Robert Mays: I'll be so curious how it ends up playing out because the Drake May situation, Drake May did not play at the beginning of his rookie year. Drake May didn't play for the first, what was it, four or five weeks? I think it was longer than that. It was at least that long. I remember it was the Texans game because everybody, myself included, was worried for his life. Because, I mean, they played in prime time, I believe, the week before we saw him for the first time. Week six. So, yeah. It was week six. Five starts. And I remember that fifth start for Jacoby Percet, it was so incredibly ugly that I think everyone landed in a place where it's like, we can't do this again.

37:53Robert Mays: Like there's, you cannot continue to trot this guy out there because the offense is, ceases to function because he can't survive behind that offensive line. So week five, they played against the Dolphins. I think that was a primetime game. Was that a primetime game? Or am I remembering that wrong? No, it was 1 p.m. Okay. So the game that I'm remembering, which they probably should have pulled the plug. The 2024 Patriots were not, the 2024 Pats were not getting a lot of primetime opportunities at all. To be clear, Thursday night was my question. The game that I'm remembering that pushed me to think this way, it was actually two weeks earlier, was when they played the Jets on Thursday night.

38:32Robert Mays: That Jets game on Thursday night in week three, looking back at it right now, in that game, Jacoby Brissett finished 12 of 18 for 98 yards and took five sacks. At that moment, it was like, we can't do this for much longer. The reason I bring that up is, is the Raiders offense going to get to that place? like is the overall health of the Raiders offense good enough where we never get to that moment in the first half of the season where it's like I've had enough like let's get the number one pick in here and see what this looks like it can't be any worse we might as well get him the reps that happened for the Patriots with Drake May as the last like top three pick to not start right away do we get to that moment for the Raiders and if we don't is that a good or bad reason to not play him because if the situation is good enough for Kirk Cousins to look fine shouldn't you have some faith that if you get some run for your number one pick quarterback in the second half of the year it's not going to be a negative experience for him it cuts both ways like I think you can make an argument on either side depending on how you want to spin it that is really funny to think that the Raiders surprise some people and win some games and Kirk Cousins looks pretty good and then it's like okay but if late career Kirk Cousins looks this good in this offense, then what could Fernando Mendoza be doing?

39:49But at the same time, it's like, well, we're three and two. Should we really go away from something that's working? And I would probably say yes.

39:56Robert Mays: I also just think there is an argument to be made that sitting and learning in the right situation can be just as valuable for a young quarterback as getting those live reps. I know people have different opinions about this. There are two guys I would point to that have benefited from this. I mean, obviously Patrick Mahomes is the best possible example, right? Like Patrick Mahomes' development was not hindered because he did not play as a rookie. It ended up just fine for Patrick Mahomes. We've seen what happened with Jordan Love. Think about how rusty Jordan Love might've looked if he had to play right away.

40:30Robert Mays: The first glimpse we got of Jordan Love was clearly he was not ready. And so time to bake a little bit was good for Jordan Love. And then the other guy I would bring up is very close to Clint Kubiak's experience. Listening to Sam Darnold, talk about how important that year was for him in San Francisco, where he did not play almost any live reps whatsoever. It's like just sitting and learning the offense and learning how the offense is supposed to work, how you're supposed to see things. I do think that there is potentially value in that without any of the downside of a rough experience when you actually are thrown into the fire.

41:04Robert Mays: And so I don't know what I want. I want the best for Fernando Mendoza. I guess that's what I want. And I'm not exactly sure what that looks like. I also want the best for Fernando Mendoza. And again, if, if they play, if they really play it this way in, in some ways that's admirable and, and I don't think it'll hurt his, I mean, it'll help his long-term development and it, it doesn't reflect poorly on him at all. And it's, it's a refreshing throwback if a team can actually stick to a plan like that. But you know, what's one of the fricking coolest football things is when you're around a team and the coaches are whispering and chattering and saying like, holy shit, are you seeing what this guy's doing out here?

41:48And it doesn't always have to be quarterback. It could be any position, but the people who see this stuff every day, excitedly telling you like, oh yeah, man, I mean, he's with the twos right now, but check back in three weeks and let's talk about it. I would love to see Fernando Mendoza pull that off. I like I want the number one pick to look like a number one pick, and I'm sure he has that sort of confidence and belief in himself as well. So I hope that's how his rookie camp goes, because it would be incredibly fun if it doesn't work out that way. That's not the end of the world either. But I'm rooting for that sort of talent to have that sort of transformative effect on a on a franchise, because it's one of the coolest things in sports.

42:32Robert Mays: talking about this year's first round pick very quickly last year's first round pick or first number one pick what does the titans offense look like with cam ward how much we talked about it last week is this going to be a team that lives in three receiver sets because of how the the roster is constructed or is this going to be like a spread it out let him play point guard situation how much of the tight ends are we going to see like what does the brian dable offense look like an underrated part of this i think is worth mentioning is that the giants offensive line for years was a dumpster fire.

43:01Robert Mays: I mean, it was a terrible situation. And then Carmen Brasolo came over to become the offensive line coach. And you really did see vast improvements from that group. I mean, Jermaine Illuminor being the best case where when he signed there originally, I don't think there was a lot of fanfare about what Jermaine Illuminor was going to be as a free agent signing. And then he really improved over the last couple of years deep into his career. And Carmen Brasolo went with Brian Dable to Tennessee. And so that offensive line in Tennessee with a lot of investments, some young, exciting players. What does J.C.

43:32Robert Mays: Latham look like? So just the overall support system and what that means for the growth of Cam Ward, I think let's stop not talking about Cam Ward. You mentioned it, like no fanfare at all for Cam Ward. Let's remind ourselves that the number one overall pick is heading into year two, and we've had some examples of that recently where that guy has taken a significant step forward when his situation has improved from year one to year two. just you wait for that first cam ward seed to hit carnell tate in the back of the end zone at training camp i'll be all over it i just can't wait until week one when he makes like two ridiculous throws and that's what you and derek want to spend the entire first recap show talking about i'm open to it by the way i'm not pushing back sunday night football mahomes did this josh allen did that did you see this shit cam ward did in the third quarter against the jets no y 'all can have that on the hangover.

44:25It's fine, but I will be there.

44:27Robert Mays: You joke, but that's very likely to happen when we get there. It's going to be cinema. All right, let's take one more quick break and then come back and head a few more of these before we get out of here.

44:55Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card.

45:09Robert Mays: All right, so Fernando Mendoza was yours, but it was also one of mine. So I guess I'll do my next one here. I meant to mention this when we were talking about the Ravens and Bills, but I just want to throw this out there. Eagles and Commanders offenses, similar sorts of conversations. I mean, transitions to very different offensive approaches for both of those teams. I'll be at both of those training camps, I think the first week of August. So I'll be curious what those offenses look like, talking to people there about, you know, some of those changes and what they're hoping to get out of it. So those are two more units that I would throw out.

45:40Robert Mays: Another one where the play caller is the same, the scheme is going to be the same, but I have a ton of questions. What does the Texans offensive line look like? And beyond that, Robert, is that one of yours? So we've overlapped on like two or three things just in this little segment right here. The Texans offensive line. I mean, like, who are the five guys? What does that mean for this group? And then what does this unit start to look like in year two? In part because we know the defense is ready to win a Super Bowl. We know that. And there's a chance that they're even better this year, which is crazy to think about.

46:15Robert Mays: For the most part, when defenses are as good as the Texans defense has been over the last couple years, I would hesitate to even say that. Be like, well, there's so much history that will tell us they won't be better. It's more likely that they might be a little bit worse. But with this group, I'm just willing to kind of throw it out. It's like, I don't care. I'm willing to believe that they might actually even be better than they've been over the last couple years. But even if it's the same, even if it's the same general level in their top two championship caliber defense, what does the offense look like?

46:45Robert Mays: Can the offense be good enough to make them feel very dangerous by the end of the season? And there have been enough changes up front. Tank Dell coming back. How did the pass catcher group shake out? David Montgomery is there now. So just the approach, the personnel, and the feel of the Texans offense in year two under Nick Haley, that's one of my bigger ones as we get closer and closer to the season here. Do you remember talking last August about how the Texans were rotating their offensive line during training camp and how it was like musical chairs every other day? Yeah, they literally did not have a starting five.

47:21Robert Mays: They were doing a different starting five pretty much every single day. A year ago at this time, not quite at this time, because camp hasn't officially started. But a year ago in August, Ariante Ursary and Cam Robinson were rotating at left tackle. Ursary was playing right tackle, too. Blake Fisher was a part of that mix. Titus Howard was playing a ton of right tackle. Like, he hadn't settled anywhere yet. Lakin Tomlinson was the left guard. and then you're rotating Jake Andrews and Jared Patterson at center. Like it's even if they move some guys around and I think Braden Smith is coming off of an injury.

47:58I know Trent Brown was playing a lot of right tackle during OTAs and mini camp, but it still seems so much more settled. Like you're coming into a training camp and being like, Ed Ingram's our right guard. Ariante Ursary is our left tackle. Braden Smith and Trent Brown are going to rotate at right tackle. We hope Keelan Rutledge can take the center job. Like it's just, it is a solidified unit instead of like, Oh, let's see what everybody's got today. Just everybody move over one spot.

48:28Robert Mays: I think that to boil it down, my biggest question is does Keelan Rutledge play into that five where last year it was, who are the five guys to me? It's more this year. It's more, does he break into it? And what does that mean for the overall quality of the group? The Texans took that so literally last year, or they were just like, I don't know. Let's try a different mixture today. So even the fact that it'll mostly be the same five or maybe six guys, even with a little bit of rotation, I just think it's going to look night and day. And hopefully it has an overall effect on the offense as well.

49:04Robert Mays: Just a heads up for you guys. We're recording this a little bit early because I'll be traveling. This is going to run on Monday, the 27th, but we already have our first bit of training camp news. Nick Scorton was carted off the field for the Panthers this morning. You're shitting me. No. So one of the guys on our breakout player show last week. I forgot. Every year, every year, I forget how bad it feels to hear that a guy got carted off and you're like, oh, please just be, please just be severe cramps or maybe a hyper extension and not something that's actually going to end your season. God, that sucks so bad.

49:43I hope Nick Scorton is, I hope it's not serious.

49:46Robert Mays: Maybe we'll do a little bit of an update later in the weekend for this, but it already said Canales after practice day that he's going to go for imaging. I'm going to be in Charlotte tomorrow, and so I will see if there's any little bit more clarity over the next 24 hours or so, but that's a pretty shitty way to start off training camp in general, and especially for somebody that we were really excited about heading into year two. All right, so mine was the Texans offense. What's your next one here? I was just going to double up on what you said, particularly about the Eagles and the frustrating thing.

50:18We can say everything we want about scheme and you will be able to go to Philly and Buffalo and some of these places and talk to people, which will help. But watching training camp practice is so unhelpful sometimes in terms of figuring out what an offense wants to do and who they want to be. I do have a close eye on Philly. in terms of things that I can tangibly see from afar. I just, I'm curious to see how all those receivers shake out without AJ Brown being there. I mean, it's, we've just had it for so long at this point that AJ and Smitty are the focal point and such a fantastic duo. I have no qualms whatsoever about Devante Smith being a wide receiver one, by the way, I think even with everything he's done in the league, I think he's so underrated, but you're still slotting guys in behind him.

51:08I'm sure the Eagles have high hopes for Makai Lemon. I'm curious to see how quickly he hits the ground running, but Dontavian Wicks is a guy that I refuse to give up on. I still believe. And even one of my more toxic traits. Well, you want to talk about toxic traits. I refuse to give up on Hollywood Brown being a productive NFL receiver either. And he's in Philly now too. So they got options. i elijah i believe in less philly also by the way no it's like a lot it's a descending order it's a descending order of guys we haven't given up on where you're like i'll never quit you don tavian wicks and then you're hollywood brown you're like okay i'm kind of losing it hollywood brown and then elijah more it's like okay i think i think this ship might have sailed elijah more But either way, the Eagles have a lot of bodies to help replace A.J.

52:01Brown. And who does it and also how it looks is something that I'm really excited to watch.

52:08Robert Mays: The trio of Dontavian Wicks, Devontae Smith, and Mikhail Lemon, I can get on board with that. I'm interested in what that looks like within the same offense as the structure of the offense changes. So count me in as people who have not totally given up on Dontavian Wicks. They gave him that one-year contract extension. This isn't just a throw-in, like, ah, whatever. We'll see if it works out. We'll see if it doesn't. They did extend him, even if it was on a modest deal. So I will be curious what that ends up looking like. My last one here, we have alluded to this a million different times over the offseason, but I think it would be disingenuous to not mention it.

52:44Robert Mays: Everything about the Chargers offense. Everything about it. What does the passing game look like? Who are the players on the field? How are the receivers featured? How many tight ends do we get? Do we get a lot of Alec Ingold? Just everything about who the Chargers want to be under Mike McDaniel. And then the part of that is how different it looks than what we saw in Miami. How much of that DNA carries over? How much of the passing game was designed to get the most out of Tua, who's a very different quarterback than Justin Herbert. So just a ton of intrigue for me with every aspect of what that Chargers offense looks like with Mike McDaniel now there.

53:26My I mean, it's it's cliche for a reason. Like I banned us from talking about the Chargers in the scheme change episode, mostly as a joke, because anybody who talks about the NFL and follows the NFL. Cannot wait to see what this looks like. I mean, the effect that it could have on the running game and the juice that they have at running back is incredibly exciting. But also Justin Herbert playing in an offense that put up video game numbers. And we talked about Tua earlier in the show, like Tua put up some silly numbers in that offense. And Justin Herbert is, however you feel about what he has and has not accomplished at this point in his career, a significantly more physically talented quarterback than Tua Tungavailoa.

54:15That's just facts. And so I can't wait. I'm so excited about it to where I'm just trying to talk less about it because I feel like it gets tiresome after a certain point.

54:29Robert Mays: You have one more? I do. It is a yearly rite of passage, but with a fun twist. Because every year, there are still useful players available. And we do this dance every year where guys wait until the really shitty part of camp is over before they look for a new landing spot. Both of the Diggs brothers are hanging out there. Debo Samuel is still available. Jonu Smith, if somebody wants him. Leonard Floyd, my favorite mercenary, is still out there. So that's, that's the normal way to do this, Robert, but there's a fun twist this year. Arguably the best defender ever is one of those guys. Granted, he can only sign with one team, but apparently he might do that.

55:16And so Aaron Donald watch is going to be fun. I think Sean McVay would spoke to Jason Locke and Fora this week and said, he's going to go through his process and see how he feels. And I took that to mean he's going to wait till we're done with the shitty part of camp at Loyola Marymount. And when we go back to our facility to get ready for week one facility is generous. Well, whatever. Yeah, wherever it is, the Rams are these days. I can never keep track. The bolt is really nice, though. Speaking of the Chargers. Both is incredibly nice. So, yeah, when when the Rams break camp and start prepping for that trip to Australia, I imagine we're going to get an Aaron Donald update.

55:57And I like, I would guess it's going to be a few weeks from now before he makes a decision, but I'm on pins and needles personally. I just, I love an event, you know, like even if Aaron Donald isn't quite what he was when he retired, no doubt in my mind, he's still a really good player. And so the potential of the Rams adding him right before a season where they're already the Superbowl favorite. I mean, that's awesome. That's just great. A entertainment.

56:26Robert Mays: we talked about it last week i'm conflicted about it in some ways if it happens i will absolutely be very excited to see aaron donnell play football again i'll be looking forward to it i'll be in la when you guys listen to this a little bit a little bit of rams a little bit of chargers and then obviously the cowboys are also there it's one of my favorite parts of the whole trip because i get to stay in the same hotel for like four nights uh that matters in la by the way like anything you can do to mitigate having to schlep across town it's just it's just nice to and not have to be able to put my suitcase down and be able to not move it for a little while.

56:58Robert Mays: So the Los Angeles stint is one of my favorite ones. But overall, looking forward to all things training camp here over the next couple weeks. Really getting going for most of the teams here over the next couple days. I think a lot of teams start practicing on the 28th or 29th, so it'll be over the next couple days. But everyone will have reported by now pretty much. And so we have gotten going in a big way. Looking forward to what the rest of the week will bring. We have a full slate of shows coming your guys' way. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.

57:30Robert Mays: Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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