Packers handle Panthers, 27-19

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2:30Derrik Klassen: I'm Dave Hellman. Up next, Derek Classen and I broke down every angle from a wild Thursday nighter. Check it out.

2:42Derrik Klassen: Well, not every Thursday night game this year has been a classic, Derek. Bears Patriots was really, really good last week. Had a couple games that were so weird. They were memorable like Broncos Seahawks. I think I posit to you, my friend. This was the first. Slop bowl Thursday night game that I'm just going to immediately delete from my memory banks after we're done talking about it. Packers beat the Panthers 2719 in a football game.

3:16Dave Helman: a football game is is what we played this was the most this really was the most thursday night football because at least with some of the other ones like tampa bay dallas was kind of a weird game right but there was something like novel about watching the bucks defense do that to

3:30Derrik Klassen: dak prescott it was like not only that but i mean jalen daniels yeah beat somebody in his first start as like an undrafted free agent like the the browns steelers game was back and forth like Like earlier in the season, Bill's Lions was I mean, the Bills dominated that game, but there were so many points scored like we've we've had a good run of for one reason or another entertaining Thursday night games. This was I don't know. Is it harsh to say this was pretty abysmal? I mean, I can find the good in anything and then we can go through it and talk about some of the highlights. I thought some of the Packers young players, I thought, had a really nice night in an island game.

4:12Derrik Klassen: But for the most part, this this feels like a low light of the Thursday schedule so far.

4:17Dave Helman: The only thing that was mildly exciting was in the second half. It was like, man, are the Packers going to do this again where they get out to a big lead? They kind of take their foot off the pedal. They make a couple mistakes. Jordan Love throws the end zone interception because he just under throws that ball. and it's like are they really going to let this team that for two and a half three quarters have clearly been the better team in this game are they really going to let them claw back into it and they really tried because like the defense started giving up a bunch of stuff in past defense like especially with all the rpos um it just like it felt like the packers were going to maybe do the thing again and so at least like other than that though it was not a very competitive game

4:58Derrik Klassen: I guess I buried the lead. I will always remember this game for Christian Watson pro wrestling style coming back from a freaking hospital visit. Can you remember that ever? Re-entering the game after visiting the hospital? No. No, I can't. And I guess it is Green Bay, so the hospital was probably like three blocks away, but that's still a new one for me, man. And I don't want to make too much light of it, especially after the Jalen Hurts situation where I hope Christian Watson's OK. I I'm trusting in various experts that it was OK that he reentered this game. But definitely a a memorable mental image for him to come back from getting into an ambulance and finish with eight for one thirteen.

5:45Dave Helman: Well, and also not only did he not just like it's not like he just came back. The first play he gets back, they throw him a double into double coverage down the left hand side on a deep ball, which like I don't know why we're just throwing him up lob passes when he just came back. And he like lands hard on the ground because he's throwing it up hard to him. But then later in the game, too, he converts like a critical. I can't remember if it was third or fourth down, but to like keep them alive and like to finish the game, it was like. So not only does he come back and play in any capacity, but they come back and they're just like, yeah, yeah, treat him like he just was.

6:18Dave Helman: He's going to be totally fine. Don't worry about it.

6:20Derrik Klassen: You're good. Yeah. Okay. He says he's good guys. Just get down the field. Wait. Okay. So I want to, I want to stop being a smart ass for just a minute. And if I was trying to, if I was really trying to extrapolate some big picture takeaways, and it goes back to what you just said about the Packers, letting the Panthers claw back into a game that they were really dominating through the first two and a half quarters, they cannot run the ball and that is is deeply concerning at this point because this is I mean this is a beat to shit Panthers team we can talk about that too but I mean we just saw what Bucky Irving and the Buccaneers did to these guys for four days ago five days ago and B if I was looking for a positive the Packers defense without Micah Parsons continues to maybe impress is too strong of a word.

7:12Derrik Klassen: But again, like you're seeing flashes from a lot of guys that you thought you would have to lean on in Micah Parsons' absence. And whether you want to talk about LVN continuing to stack good days or like Brenton Cox in this game was freaking incredible. Evan Williams does something awesome every week. Chris McClellan had a fourth down stuff in this game. and so like if I was a Packers fan looking for something to be optimistic about on an otherwise kind of gross night the Packers defense continuing to do stuff without Micah Parsons is is where I

7:46Dave Helman: would try to hang my hat I 100 % agree like deny Dennis Sutton I thought actually had a pretty good game he continues to be really impressive for them up front like that's the thing like it not losing Micah Parsons for any team or for any roster is going to be like a huge thing but But especially for this Packer teams, it was like we haven't really seen LVN break out. They have so many young players elsewhere. Like how good has Baron Sorrell really been? And I like Sorrell had a big play in this game. He had a big sack. Then I didn't a sudden I thought played well.

8:12Derrik Klassen: We got to say well, we got to say Tyron Hopper's name, too. Yes. Thank you. Holy shit, dude.

8:18Dave Helman: He like all the run defense plays were awesome when he ran. Obviously, then he has the interception where Bryce is trying to replace that blitz. He throws it to the left hand side. Hopper puts a hand up and he goes and picks his own tip, which like that doesn't happen very often. And early in the game, too, they tried to throw a wheel route to Chuba Hubbard. And he's just with him step for step down the sideline. I was like, Tyron Hopper, man, if the backups are playing this well, that is good coaching to me. And I like I think we both probably were like, how good is Jonathan Gannon really going to be as a defensive head coach?

8:49Dave Helman: Like what is a defensive coach? What is this really going to look like? And at pretty much every stop this season, they've answered the bell of like playing good teams and finding different answers and being able to do without Micah Parsons. The young players are playing better. It's it's more impressive than I would have guessed. That's that's absolutely true.

9:04Derrik Klassen: Hopper made like three plays in the first half where I like had to rub my eyes and be like, Edron Cooper's out for the year. Well, who's doing this? This is amazing. And so, yeah, I mean, I thought and I know we'll talk about the Panthers in a minute. Don't don't worry. But and I know I know what happened against Tampa. I know it hasn't been great over the last three weeks, and I know they're very injured. But this is this is a Panthers offense that has had some moments and and was playing consistently solid football over the first four weeks, five weeks of the year, whatever you want to call it.

9:40Derrik Klassen: It's easy to hand wave this stuff off, and I'm sure we're going to have a Bryce conversation at some point. But I thought for the most part, a really impressive performance on their on their part against an offense that has not been bad all year. Like, I think it's I think it's lazy to just revert back to like, well, the Panthers offense sucks. Like the minute the minute this happens, like I do think they deserve some flowers for that.

10:03Dave Helman: A hundred percent. Like we're going to remember. Yeah. Like obviously coming off how bad the Bucks game was, that's all we're going to remember. But up before that, the Panthers were like top 10, top 12 in offensive DVOA. And like they had had good games. They'd found different answers. I think with the RPO game than they had in previous seasons, like they were getting Bryce Young to throw the middle of the field more for the most part. and I think in this game it was some combination of like Bryce Young I think made some plays that he would probably want back I think you saw the Packers defensive line did a really good job of making sure we're getting hands and windows which I think is when you know especially in this game plan the hands and windows thing is not just because he's short this was a like we know they can't protect and throw the ball downfield so we're gonna blitz them make the ball come out immediately then we're gonna get hands up so that was more like game planning and then I would say too, I really do think that you're starting to feel how beat up and broken the Panthers offensive line is like they have their center that they want and their right guard that they want.

10:58Dave Helman: And other than that, you're working on your left tackle to Monroe Freeling is back in the lineup because Moten is hurt again. And I know that he's a first round pick, but he we kind of knew was going to be a little bit of a project player. And I think you felt that a little bit so far here. And now they're on guard three because Damian Lewis did not come into this game and they had to play. I think it was Jake Curran was the left guard. And you talk we talk about LVN making plays. There was one sack. I think it was the first or second pass attempt when Jake Curran came into the game. They run this front where they're overload mugging to the right hand side, but they have LVN as the D tackle over Curran.

11:33Dave Helman: And then just outside of him is one of the other defensive ends. They run a twist right at Curran. He can't pick it up. LVN gets a sack. And it's just like at a certain point when you're working on guard three, I just don't know what you're supposed to do.

11:44Derrik Klassen: The one that really stood out to me was Brenton Cox. It was after the second Green Bay fumble, Brenton Cox just swam past Rasheed Walker like he wasn't even there. And like Rasheed Walker, he signed on a cheap deal. And I guess looking back on it, maybe that was telling. But I remember thinking, hey, this is if you don't have Ikiakuanu to start the year, this is a nice signing for not a lot of money that can help you insure against that. and that just isn't proving to be the case and okay i let's no should we do the panthers thing now and because i have a couple more things to say about the packers or do you do you want to wait

12:29Dave Helman: i think we can do panthers now come back around to the packers at the end and celebrate if we want them having won this game haven't gotten away with it so i i'd be curious

12:38Derrik Klassen: for your take because you know i'm i'm a bit of a bryce apologist i i want it to work and i hate I hate that we're back doing this in week eight after a nice start to the season. How much of this is the offensive line being beat to shit? Cause you watch, you watch some of these pressures and you watch the way that Bryce Young was under siege from the minute he caught the snap like time and time again. And it's easy to just say, well, he just doesn't have a chance. Like how many quarterbacks would have a chance? But also there are plenty of bigger, more athletic quarterbacks with stronger arms that would have a chance in these circumstances.

13:20Derrik Klassen: And I'm curious for your opinion about like how much of this is just throw your hands up, like what's he supposed to do and how much of it is that classic Bryce Young conversation that we've had 35 times at this point?

13:33Dave Helman: I mean, I think it really is both because we saw earlier in the season when the offensive line was a little bit healthier at points. He's been a little bit more OK and he's had moments where he'll step up in the pocket. But I just I do believe that even if because there were there are a ton of pressures in this game where it's immediate, like a guy's just winning an inside move. I will. I do think, though, with some of that stuff, with guys being able to just win inside immediately and go do all that stuff. I think there is some amount of defenses are allowed to rush and pressure the way that they want to because they are not scared of him beating them that much outside of the pocket like he can move a little bit but he's not really as dynamic as a lot of the other guys at the top of the league and not even like the super elite athletes like he is I think pretty clearly like well behind creators like Brock Purdy who like Brock Purdy is like a pretty good scrambler and stuff but even he's not like a Josh Allen or anything like that.

14:24Dave Helman: But I think young is even levels below that. And so you just end up in this scenario where like, is any quarterback going to look emphatically good behind the way that this offensive line is playing? Absolutely not. But I think we've seen in previous seasons that, and I know that this is a hot button player too. In previous seasons, Justin Herbert has like survived games of really terrible offensive line play and bailed them out. And eventually that falls away. Cause if you play five games behind an offensive line like that, eventually you just start dying. but I do think that there's some amount of like, he just doesn't really have the tools to ever bail you out of that stuff.

14:58Dave Helman: Cause even when they picked up the offense in the second half, it was all just RPO quick game, trying to get the ball out of his hands, which that's all they had. But like, he just can't really hang in collapsing pockets all that well.

15:08Derrik Klassen: It was impressive the way he strung stuff together to get them back into the game. But to your point, yeah, it was a lot of just getting that thing out of there. And to your point, I mean, goodness gracious, I would, I would struggle to think of like a true downfield route or like a downfield completion that went more than I think the the play that he made over Tyron Hopper to Chuba, which was like a phenomenal. I mean, it was a cool play by Bryce to get out of there and floated over Tyron Hopper and a great catch by Chuba Hubbard. But I think that that might have been like his first completion of like nine plus air yards or something like that.

15:47Derrik Klassen: Like that's how long it took. And that's what it looked like to get a completion at the sticks.

15:53Dave Helman: Yeah. If true media is correct and updated right now, he was over three on throws beyond 10 yards in this game. And like he just and again, part of that is like, it's a tough way to live. And I do think it's both things that like when your offensive line is playing like this, of course, you have to just throw a bunch of screens, RPO, try to get the ball out of the quarterback's hands. But I do think that other bigger quarterbacks, the offensive play caller and this team is going to be willing to say like hey we know you're going to get pressured we know you're going to get hit you got to stand in there and make this 15 yard out and because it's but you have the receivers to do it cocker can is going to get open on that stuff tmack is going to be able to get open on that stuff you need to be able to just sit him there and take a hit and i just think that like when they get into these situations where the offensive line is crumbling he just doesn't have enough to bail them out and i want to be clear there's probably not more than a dozen quarterbacks who have any sort of answer for that sort of situation.

16:46Dave Helman: I just I think that he is not one of those guys.

16:49Derrik Klassen: That is I mean, that's fair. Like, I think at this point, I'm willing to say it's I mean, it's a myth to think that a quarterback, even the best quarterback can do this shit under siege week after week after week. Like, yes, the very best can do it in spurts or for one blaze of glory or maybe, you know, Like the very, very blue chip elite guys like Pat and Josh and Lamar could maybe do this for an extended period of time. But eventually it falls away, like you said. And for some guys quicker than others. And I just think with Bryce, there's just there's no pretense that that's going to happen at all at this point.

17:30Dave Helman: I will admit, too, especially for me, like everyone knows this, I'm a little bit of a sizist on this show. there is just something about the way that some of the bad plays look where it's like he just gets shoestrung tackled or he just like kind of collapses in front of a guy and it's like man somebody bigger is gonna get out of that like it those plays are frustrating the play that i think

17:49Derrik Klassen: encapsulates the problem the best from this game is it wasn't even a pass attempt it was the first drive of the third quarter and they had like they hit a run i think and they had a little bit of success and it's second and two and they boot Bryce out and it doesn't materialize down the field. So he starts running and it looked like it was going to be a fairly easy pickup and Tyron Hopper just fetched him. And it was so sad because like he gets tackled at the line, no gain and it's third and short. And Al Michaels comes on and he's like, actually, they're going to chalk that up as a sack. And I was like, oh my God, like you didn't even get to the line.

18:30Derrik Klassen: You didn't even gain like Like a yard, you got sacked on a boot scramble. And I think that's just kind of what we're talking about, where the tools and the athleticism that you want in that situation are just they don't show up.

18:43Dave Helman: Exactly. Like it's there are a lot. There are, I don't know, seven, eight plays in this game where no quarterback is going to have a chance. Like the the Baron Sorrell sack. It's a three man rush and he just wins inside move immediately. It's like, well, yeah, Josh Allen is probably getting sacked there, too, because if you give up immediate pressure on three man rush, I don't know what you're going to do. but there are also another seven eight plays in this game where it's like he clearly is a little bit uncomfortable with what he's seeing because I think maybe he's a little bit shorter or he's feeling the pressure or he goes down faster than other guys would and I think too you saw at the very end of this game that throw that he dirts to TMAC when it's you know fourth quarter games on the line fourth down he has somebody open to his right and if he hangs in the pocket a little bit stronger he can maybe make a more balanced platform throw directly to TMAC but you can feel that by that point in the game, he was just a little bit uneasy, didn't want to hang on his spot.

19:33Dave Helman: And that was one of the not very often times in that game that he actually had a clean pocket and he kind of wasted it, which that happens to quarterback sometimes when the game slips away from you and you're getting pressured half the time, you don't feel like you're ever clean. It's the Sam Darnold seeing ghost thing is like that's a real emotion that quarterbacks are feeling out there when these games get that way.

19:52Derrik Klassen: This is a hard thing to answer. And it's tricky too because these are like decade long pros i get that but like like jared goff like what do you think jared goff would look like in these circumstances like another guy that was talented enough to go one overall but like tools like athletic tools are not what he's known for like do you think it would look equally bad i don't know like i i have a hard time placing that

20:19Dave Helman: i don't think equally bad there's again he's he's not getting away from the sorrel sack or some of these immediate pressures maybe but I think that they would have more positive plays because there are going to be more times where they can say listen we're going to seven man pro here just chuck this ball straight into T-Max chest and he Jared Goff is going to be able to stand there and I think make some of those throws with more regularity than we get from Bryce Young and that's not to say that Bryce can never make those throws but I think that Jared Goff there is a little bit more even when things are imperfect at this stage in his career he can kind of just hang on his spot make some of these plays I think the way that Jared Goff sees the blitz at this stage in his career is extremely impressive and Bryce Young has a little bit of that but I think again an older Jared Goff now he's he's one of the best in the league at replacing the blitz and so I just think that there are elements of it that even if you might have gotten the same amount of like true negative plays because of how bad the offensive line is I think you would have gotten a more volatile performance in a good way where you got more of the high-end stuff to maybe stay in this game a little bit longer.

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23:51Derrik Klassen: The Panthers also officially feel like a team that's having one of those years. Like Moten is on IR. Like he broke his fibula in the Bucs game. So, I mean, that's a no-go. And I don't know if he came back, but Damian Lewis's replacement, Corey Bullock, went down late in this game. Will Lee got carded off on the same play where Christian Watson got hurt. By the way, a Caleb Evans, who was already CB three or four behind JC Horn and Mike Jackson. He's on IR now. And so, you know, maybe the maybe the Panthers weren't as as good as we hoped they were. But at this point, it's hard to even say. It's hard to know because they're just they're beat to shit.

24:37Derrik Klassen: I mean, and this is the team that lost Nick Scorton on like the first practice day of the year. Chris Brazel never got to have a season. And so I'm I'm starting to feel for the Panthers in the sense of like, well, even if you were a flawed team at the start of this, like nobody's overcoming all of this shit.

24:54Dave Helman: No, no Jalen Phillips. Did we even say that?

24:57Derrik Klassen: We didn't have Jalen Phillips. Yeah, he wasn't available for the Bucks game either.

25:00Dave Helman: yeah it's it really has been a season from hell for the Panthers which like that does make it complicated because I think even if I am a Bryce Young skeptic and I still overall I'm not sure my appetite to want to pay him as like a franchise quarterback I do think that because of how poorly things have gone from a health perspective it's like I don't know if we've really gotten to see what like this version of the Bryce Young Panthers building on last season was really supposed to be

25:28Derrik Klassen: I'm not even and I'm not directing this at you really but like I'm not even interested in that conversation at this point like they picked up his option yeah he's on the team at not a crazy price like 24 million dollars or whatever it is is like it's just not even really worth worrying about in my opinion so you know he's under contract there's no reason you need to be in a rush to figure this out. It's definitely disappointing that we're here in this realm again. But like, I just, I'm at the point where I can't do this every time the Panthers struggle. Like we're, we're well aware of the situation and let, let's just see what it looks like.

26:09Derrik Klassen: Hopefully they can get healthier and give him a better shot. But I, I guess at this point, it's not a question I'm in a rush to answer in 2027 like this feels like it's going to play out to the end unless something crazy happens in

26:23Dave Helman: the back half of the year yeah i i 100 agree i will say if we want to flip it back to the other side really quickly and and try to talk about the the packers and their path forward i am tired of the run game thing with the how could you not be yeah and that's what i wanted to go back to

26:38Derrik Klassen: yes a friend of mine texted me at the end of this uh at the end of the game and was like this would be a contender if they could run the ball at all and i was like yeah i think you're probably right Right. But at what point do I lose confidence that that's going to happen?

26:51Dave Helman: Because a defense with Micah Parsons assume, let's say he's 85, 90 percent of what Micah Parsons can be. This is probably a top 10 to 12 defense like they are already arguably that. And I think obviously getting him back can really kick things up a notch. The quarterback is playing at a really high level. And I know that people are going to think about that interception. They put up 27 points in the first three quarters because he was nuking them all over the field.

27:13Derrik Klassen: real quick just while the Panthers are still on my brain shout out Zaki Wheatley that was a guy

27:18Dave Helman: we both liked yeah yeah get in the pick on Jordan Love anyway but I mean still like but that was a good play too because I the way that Jordan Love so on that play they have the poster out coming from the right who I forget who he's trying to throw that to I think it was Matthew Golden but they have the crosser underneath and then they have Christian Watson down the left sideline just running this vertical and I think the way that they are calling that play and the way that Jordan Love is thinking is he's like this free safety is either going to nail down on this crosser in front of him or he's going to want to have a little bit more push to the field side and really be a little bit more worried about Christian Watson.

27:54Dave Helman: And so he's making an assumption that the safety is not going to be there and he can just throw this ball. But it's just a really good play to go be ahead of that and go and make that play. So I thought that that was really impressive. But yeah, the fact that the Packers are getting top 10 quarterback play and top 10 defensive play and the run game is on running back runs in this game they had 1.9 yards per carry because their overall is 2.5 but that's because they had a savi on williams carry of 18 yards

28:23Derrik Klassen: i looked up their success rate at halftime and i was like this is going to be horrendous and it was actually surprisingly good and i was like i'll get the savi on williams carry out of here i don't give a shit about that and when you remove that run it takes a nosedive like obviously it does And it's I mean, it's been the story for the vast majority of the year.

28:43Dave Helman: Their longest run in this game outside of the Savion Williams run was six yards. That is just not good enough for a team that believes that they can maybe go and win the Super Bowl.

28:55Derrik Klassen: Al and Kirk were like debating the merits of running or throwing on that third and two at the end of the game. And I was like, have you watched them try to run the ball? I think I would put I think I would put it in Jordan Love's hands. I think that's OK.

29:07Dave Helman: that their best players on offense, I think in order might be Jordan Love, Tucker Craft, Christian Watson and Matthew Golden. Let let them do their thing at the you know, I don't even I

29:21Derrik Klassen: don't care if I sound like a Jordan Love apologist because this happens all the time. I lived it with Dak in 2022 where like and, you know, Jordan, he threw an end zone interception that is very bad. You should not do that. He had at least one other that I think you could say he got away with. Like I think he like threw a small. Yeah. He got away with one, but like, it's so easy to just meme Jordan love and be like, Oh, he's going to try to give you one. They can't run the ball, but they are a completely one dimensional team. Whatever the, whatever good comes out of the Packers offense is going to be Jordan love throwing the ball and he's good enough and talented enough to try some shit.

30:06Derrik Klassen: He's probably, if he doesn't throw interceptions, he's probably going to give the defense a couple opportunities. The alternative is being bad and unexplosive on offense. Like that is considering the state of this running game. It is a, that is a math equation. And, and the math checks out that like, yes, let Jordan chuck it and you live with the bad plays. And there will be some because they are an unbalanced offense, but it's okay. Like in the long run, it's going to be good way more than it's going to be bad.

30:36Dave Helman: Exactly. There are not that many quarterbacks who I think could have like zero run game at all and go out there and just like chuck it around the field as carelessly is maybe the wrong word, but just as like not worried about making mistakes as Jordan love is like, he just believes that he's going to be able to get the next one. And that's totally fine. And I really think it is impressive what he's done. And again, credit like Christian Watson is a really good player. Tucker Craft is still a really good player. Matthew Golden has some frustrating drops, but has also some really impressive moments like the corner route he runs for the touchdown is awesome.

31:07Dave Helman: He had a I think it was like a little bender dig route over the middle where Jordan Love throws it like a yard behind him because he doesn't want to throw the ball in front of him because the linebacker is there. So it's actually a good ball. But Matthew Golden has to make this like spinning catch behind his back and does it over the middle of the field. I'm like, they're they're passing game. The quarterback's going to try to make some reckless throws and that doesn't excuse them like within the vacuum of that play like yes jordan love made a mistake on that play but what you're saying is like the offense is only going to work if they throw 40 times and he has to do some crazy shit every now and then what do you think the packers

31:40Derrik Klassen: rushing high for the year yardage is was it this game 66 uh they have they have uh actually i think they have two that are better not still i know for sure they've not alert not by a lot yeah they've not hit a hundred 86 yards against Tampa and they're low for the year is 17. If you remember the last time they were on Thursday night football against Atlanta, I mean, and like I said, I'm not even, I'm not even trying to make excuses. Like Jordan love is probably going to do something stupid twice a game, but it's in this service of making this offense function and like 85 percent of the time it's going to work and yeah like i think i think you're right like considering the state of this thing the fact that he's consistently able to find explosives and find the the right play is i think it's pretty impressive if that makes me sound like an

32:40Dave Helman: apologist i can live with it me too if i have to be an apologist for that guy that's not that's not

32:46Derrik Klassen: that's not groundbreaking analysis i know you can um i already said it but like so i mean brandon he say has had a really nice start to his career. Chris McClellan made a splash play in an Island game. I thought that was really cool. Denied Dennis Sutton. This is, I mean, several weeks in a row where he's doing this consistently. I'm pretty pumped about the Packers draft class with the exception of the kicker and Robert's not here. So we can briefly talk about special teams. Do it, do it. Trey smack misses an extra point. And by the way, you could have taken whatever drama there was about the end of this game.

33:27Derrik Klassen: Considering you drafted this guy in this day and age, I expect a kicker that was good enough to get drafted to be able to hit a 54 yard field goal to make this a two possession game and take all the guesswork out of it. And the Packers opted to punt instead, and they messed up downing it inside the 10 and gave the Panthers a real possession. Obviously, Carolina was never a threat to score in that situation, but not trusting your kicker from 54. And by the way, it's a good call because I think he's now missed like five kicks from 35 and in. If you count extra points, it's obviously this is a problem, Derek.

34:04Derrik Klassen: And my question for you is. Nobody wants to cut a kicker that they just drafted. like literally this year you spent a draft kick on a kicker which some people think you should never do but at what point is this worrisome enough to be untenable I think the fact if you

34:22Dave Helman: are like worried for him to make kicks and he's missing as short as he did last week that's where it gets concerning because honestly like most rookie kickers like most rookie players in the NFL are going to have ups and downs but the downs have been so scary I think for this player that it's really worrisome and like i will i will say i think this the packer special teams woes extend well beyond just trace being a problem like they fumbled the opening kickoff fumbled the opening kickoff you just mentioned them not being able to down that punt when they had a player there like he just isn't reading it in time and you could see the broadcast cut to the special teams coach immediately and he was like mfing the whole situation i think he was saying like that's bad

35:04Derrik Klassen: ball that's what it looks like he was saying it was great that's what it looked like and maybe

35:08Dave Helman: he's saying like that's a bad ball as in it's a bad bounce but like still it's the fact that like their special teams overall it's not rams level bad but it's been mostly not good for a while now

35:19Derrik Klassen: and this year it's not been any better the irony is if they had given smack the 54 yard kick i bet he would have banged it in like you know like some kickers like the harder it is the easier they make it look and it's like the yips where like you don't want the tap in putt you want like the chip shot from the sand trap but i don't know i mean they they were very stubbornly loyal to mcmanus last year so if anybody's going to give him a long leash it might be matt lafleur and brian gutekunst but i don't know i don't know how many times you can you know risk outcomes because of missed 35 yard kicks yeah i at a certain point you just this is the bed that you made

35:59Dave Helman: unfortunately, and they're just going to have to live with it.

36:01Derrik Klassen: Thank you for indulging my special teams rant. That is all we got for this recap, by the way, but my goodness, do we have a loaded show coming your way on the preview show week eight. It's a banger, man. We got Vikings lions. We got bears Seahawks on Monday night, underrated game in the NFC South Falcons, Panthers Steelers. Browns is another one we touched on and plenty of other stuff. That'll be, it should be, if you're listening to this, it's in your feed right now. If you're watching us, it'll be out tomorrow. Plenty of great stuff coming your way this weekend for that. For now, that is all we got for Derek.

36:40Derrik Klassen: I'm Dave. We appreciate it. We'll talk to you all next time.

37:07Derrik Klassen: We'll be right back. And no activation fees. Free phone? Oh, sign me up.

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