Postmortems for Wild Card Round losers

0:03Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays mentioned this on the recap shows this weekend, but we wanted to spend some time today just doing some half postmortems, half what comes next sets of questions for the teams that lost this weekend. So on this show, we've got the five losers from the weekend, the Carolina Panthers, the Green Bay Packers, the Jacksonville Jaguars, the Philadelphia Eagles, and the Los Angeles Chargers. The loser of Monday's game, which we do not know yet because we're recording this about four o 'clock on Monday. we're going to tackle that team and that version of this conversation on that Monday night recap.

0:40And so that's now that's why we did not hit the loser of the Monday night game among this group. But the other five teams, we tried to just hit on their biggest questions this offseason, some of the resources that they're going to have, what sort of changes might be coming. Really enjoyed this conversation with Derek Klassen. Let's get to it right now.

1:03we alluded to this on both recap shows that we did this weekend we're going to spend some time on monday doing sort of post-mortems of sort but also just looking forward at what needs to change what the priority should be like for all of the teams that lost to this weekend we beller sent me some initial notes about the layout and some details about each team and i was like what order is this in it's it's the order they were eliminated in so that's what we're going to do today we're going to go through all five teams that were eliminated from playoff contention this weekend and just chat about what their future might look like I'm pretty excited for this I think when I went into this I was I think when you come out of the games you assume whatever you're going to think about the team is going to be a little bit more complicated than it is but then I kind of dug into a lot of these and for the most part other than maybe the last team we're going to talk about.

1:52I felt like what I kind of thought actually coming out of the game is about where I landed after doing a little bit more research, digging, trying to look forward. So as you were starting this process with the Panthers, what was like the first thought that came to your mind? Really cool story. This team is still not good. They are. It's not a good roster. They paid. They paid to be better on defense and they were, but this was still the 22nd best defense in the league. And they were by DVOA and they were 25th on offensive DVOA. And I think that that is a little bit skewed by like the offensive line being really banged up towards the second half of the year so they couldn't run the ball I think quite the way that they had for the first half of the season where they actually were kind of giving it to teams but still this was I think we all knew how lucky it felt in the moment that they could escape with eight and nine not even winning their final game still getting in but I think when you're in the moment you still try to play it up like how nice of a team this actually was but then you look at it again this was they were by DVOA marginally better than the New York Giants.

2:47We think about those two teams extremely differently, but it's probably more reality that they are closer than we would think. Close is a good term because I think when I'm thinking about the Panthers from this season, it's really important to acknowledge the strides that they made, especially on the defensive side of them. I mean, that's where they really went from historically bad to an acceptable level by the time we got to the end of the year. The number that I think puts the finest point on that. Last year, the Panthers were the only team in next-gen history with a run defense success rate of 50 % or more.

3:22Since 2016, they're the only team that allowed a 50 % rushing success rate or more. They allowed 3 ,000 rushing yards in 2024. They tied for the worst mark in the next-gen era at EPA per rush. It was like 0.12, which is a very good passing game. Like very good, like top five passing game. This year, they go from a 50 % rushing success rate allowed to 38.8, which was the seventh best mark in the league. They finished 23rd overall in defensive DVOA. They were still bottom 10 in EPA per drop back. We'll get to where some of the holes are with the team personnel-wise, but they made significant strides on that side of the ball.

3:59I do think that the offense, when the full arsenal of players was there, you can talk yourself into what that can be moving forward. If you're trying to spin it optimistically, because I have the exact same numbers, They were still 26th in EPA per dropback per next-gen stats. They were 26th in passing DBOA. With Jalen Coker on the field, they were a league average passing game by EPA per dropback. And so that was in the back half of the season when the offensive line was banged up and the running game wasn't very good. So if you can have Coker, McMillan, Shatavian Sanders comes back, you find some sort of like speed number three receiver if you like feel like Leggett's getting pushed out of the rotation or that's just what he becomes for you, right?

4:40He's just a role player, which is fine. You have the offensive line coming back with a couple of question marks, which we can talk about. And you feel like some of the flashes that you got from Bryce Young and high leverage moments and some of the big time throws he was able to make, that's something that you can carry over. Is there a path for this being the 14th best offense in the league next year? I think if you're trying to spin it optimistically, like there is a world where that can all come together for you. I think they can do that. they're just that to me still feels like a really high end outcome and also I think if they don't fix the offensive line and fix meaning like they're a couple guys are pending free agents Iki Aquanu is potentially not going to be healthy for next year so they've got some things to answer on that side to me the identity of the team and the settling part of the team is still when they can run the ball like it felt like they were their best games were when they could control the game like the Rams games especially the first one felt like kind of lucky in the sense that again you're betting on like these fourth down plays where you're just chucking it up to the big guys and that can work sometimes but I think that just leaves you in a really volatile space with their passing game so I think if they mostly go into next year with a lot of the same guys and maybe the offensive line is five to ten percent worse even at their best because of again some of the injuries a couple of guys leaving that to me just it still feels like even if you have a couple of those games that are really high like the Falcons game or a couple of those Rams games it just feels like there's still to me going to be a lot of the lows where you just straight up lose games because of the way that your offense plays at times.

6:09That's what happened all the time this year. I mean, it was the most inconsistent offense in the league by pretty much every single measure. The offensive line composition is worth considering. Like you said, Iki Iquanu, we're going to say this multiple times on this show, has a torn patellar tendon. It's a devastating injury for anybody, but it's happening consistently with so many offensive linemen. If you look at some of the numbers behind it, only like 55 % of guys who've seen that injury even come back from that injury. At all? Yes. Wow. And if you look at the actual historic medical data associated with the injury, it's a devastating injury.

6:41And in terms of return to performance level, which is a nebulous kind of way of framing it, but I think they did it by PFF grade. This is an actual study that was done. It's like 35 % of guys returned to previous levels of performance within two years. So it's a career-altering injury for a lot of players. There are some recent success stories. Josh Simmons is somebody who tore his Patel or Tennant a year ago. he came back looked healthy was playing well for the Chiefs and so there are guys who can come back from it pretty quickly but it is an injury that can truly change the course of your career when you're a player who weighs 330 pounds the way that Ikiakwani does that's the other thing is like these big guys especially once they're the ones lower body injuries exactly that that can be really scary I guess if you're trying to like paint the silver lining on the other end like Robert Hunt should be healthier next year so you have at least a little bit of a push and pull there But again, like Taylor Moten is getting a little bit older and like you've just got other guys on the interior that are potentially up for free agency.

7:36Like there's just going to be it's just going to be a different offensive line next year than it was this year. Center is the is the question because Cade Mays and Austin Corbett are both hitting free agency. By the end of the season, Cade Mays was he kind of won that job. And I'm actually curious what his market's going to look like in free agency this year. I think you can make an argument for trying to bring him back. They probably they probably should. But, I mean, he'll be the best young center on the market. There are a couple of other guys that have... Yeah, I guess Linderbaum. Linderbaum is also like...

8:07Specific. And that also, to me, I would be shocked if the Ravens just don't find a way to make that work. I mean, if he's hitting free agency, he's going to have suitors. We'll get to a team a little bit later that I feel like could very much be in the market for Tyler Linderbaum. And then left tackle and center, the question's there. Again, I think we'll see what happens with the receiving core. But if Legat just becomes your number three kind of vertical player, I think you can live that way. The tight end room has some pieces to it. Like Mitchell Evans was. They have three like quality players.

8:36There's a decent collection of supporting cast pieces here. The Bryce Young of all of this, I'm at a spot where he has played well enough that you just keep trying to chip away at getting the most you can with what he's giving you and trying to build the best roster you can around him. early reports, Adam Schefter, I think said earlier this week that they are going to pick up his fifth year option. It's going to be 27 million in 2027. That's a lot of money. But at the same time, the downside case, if he has a really nice season, a really nice lame duck season, and then you're sitting there at the end of 2026, what are we going to do?

9:09The franchise tag is likely going to be like$48 million in 2027. And so you're protecting yourself here and kind of giving yourself a two-year runway at the position. I still have my questions about what a Bryce Young offense and what the ceiling of a Bryce Young offense looks like. But I feel like he's played well enough where he definitively falls into like a you can win with him bucket if a lot of the other stuff going around going on around him is right. And I feel like that's kind of how the Panthers have to operate because I'm not sure they have a different solution at this point. I think I kind of agree with that and kind of don't.

9:42I think you can win with him insofar as being like your ceiling is like a 10 win team. I think his ceiling as that is just, right, it's just significantly lower than like, because in my mind, like the ideal like win with quarterback is like a Baker Mayfield. But like his ceiling is significantly higher can like push you to like top five, seven offense. Yeah, yes. I don't think you're going to be a top five or seven. I said it before. I think you're shooting for being like the 14th best offense. I think you can win with that sort of construction, but it's a very narrow path. But I'm just not sure if you're the Panthers right now, where else you would seek out an option.

10:14And I think he played well enough that you just have to see what you can do with him next year. And that's the thing, if this was the 2024 draft class where there's like five or six guys that people are trying to sell themselves on and it's like, we can shuffle around a little bit in the first round and maybe we can go get a guy. This just doesn't seem like the class that you would even do that, even if you wanted one. Yeah, you have the 19th pick. Yeah, you have the 19th pick and there's like one and a half quarterback prospects that anybody likes. Like it's very unlikely that you would really get yourself in position to get one of those guys.

10:42And so I understand them picking up the fifth year option in terms of you probably weren't going to replace him this offseason and then next offseason like 27 million or whatever sounds like a lot of money but it's half of whatever the going rate is for a quarterback so it's kind of whatever it's really not as financially binding as it sounds I just I think I'm still at a point where I would be even though I get why they picked up the option to save themselves for this year and next year I just would be shocked if they ever get to a point where they feel like they are going to extend him I think that's probably right or extend him at like the market right at like a market rate right And we don't see, I mean, any quarterback who is getting a contract with the team that drafted them after the end of that rookie contract is getting$50 million a year.

11:22They're not getting the Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield,$30 million. Yes, they're getting the$50 million up in that range. I'm really curious if a team does eventually sit there and say, we're giving you the mid-tier quarterback contract. Like, that's what you deserve. That's the type of player you are. It has not happened yet. And this is two years down the road. We're going to have to have this conversation. But Bryce Young is the type of guy where maybe you could talk yourself into that. At the same time, though, if you're doing that with a quarterback in that situation, most of the time, the reason those quarterback contracts are handed out is because teams have to give out those quarterback contracts because they don't have a pathway to someone else.

11:56And so I just think you see what happens. You see what you get out of Bryce Young in 2026 and then in the 2027 offseason, you evaluate your options. I think that's where the Panthers are right now. Yeah. Just the state of the roster overall. And the reason that this team does not have a lot of like financial wiggle room. and they have like$29 million in cap space per over the cap heading into 2026. They're going to carry over some cap space. They don't have a lot of like clear ways to save a ton of money against the cap either. There are four or$5 million cuts here and there, but there aren't a lot of like, oh, we'll save 20 million if we move on from this guy.

12:31And part of that is just because they've had to spend in free agency to overcome what their drafts have looked like over the last three years. The 2024 draft is already looking tough. Drafted Xavier Ligat in the first round. Jonathan Brooks in the second round, Trevin Wallace in the third round. None of those guys have really been contributors to what you've been as a team over the last couple of years. 2023 draft is just Bryce Young. 2022 draft is just Iki Iquani. That's it. So there just is not an underlying foundation of talent here. And that's why they had to go out and spend. And if you look at all the guys that are making like real money on this team, Trevin Merrick, Robert Hunt, Damian Lewis, Tashaun Wharton, those guys will cost like$80 million.

13:12against the cap this year combined. And then you've already given out extensions to Taylor Moten, to Derek Brown, to JC Horn, the guys that are worth handing out money to, but this is not a cheap roster. Like they have spent a lot of the resources. So there aren't a lot of clear pathways to adding a bunch of talent in a bunch of different positions. If I had to kind of settle on what their needs are and where I would seek out modest additions sometime this off season to round out, especially the defense, Off-ball linebacker, I think, is where you have to start. Christian Roseman is a free agent after this year, even if he wasn't.

13:46That's a position that I think you still have to upgrade. Trevin Wallace, I think, is still a question mark heading into his third year after being hurt for a good chunk of this season. I think you need another pass rusher. Skorton is, I think, on his way to being a solid number two. Yes. Princely, I think, is a good situational number three pass rusher, third-round pick. I think that's probably what he is. You need to try to go out and find a true difference maker. on the edge at some point. Because even for as, I think, optimistic as we might be about those two guys, and I really do like Nick Swarton, and obviously they have Derek Brown.

14:19This was still the worst pass rush in the league. Like them and the Niners who lost Nick Bosa and like three other guys, those two were equal pass rushes for most of the season. Yes, and a lot of their additions and body types are run stoppers, right? They went out and got Bobby Brown. They have Derek Brown. They have A'shaun Robinson. Like that's they whatever they wanted to be in that area, they accomplished that. But they still need more pass rush juice. And then I think the last position, I would say they need a little bit more range and athleticism on the back end. Right. Nick Scott is playing a ton of snaps for this team.

14:51The way they use Trevin Merrig close to the line of scrimmage. I think just a safety that's going to cover some ground for you on the back end. That is worth seeking out if you're Carolina. And you don't want Trevin Merrig to like be your bandaid solution to that. Be like, oh, we'll just play Trevin Merrick a little bit deeper and we'll play somebody else in the box. The closer he is to the box, to the action, he's been better. That was true even at points when he was in Las Vegas, there were stretches where they played him too far at deep safety and he was just kind of, you know, quiet. And then like the closer he can get to the line of scrimmage and make a little bit of noise.

15:21He was really, really good this year doing that. They drafted Latham Ransom in the fourth round this year. You know, I think you go with a veteran for most of the year with Scott. Is he somebody that can take over that job next season? That gives you an answer. Then the other personality that's worth pointing out, the Mike Jackson contract looks awesome. Him making like$8 million against the cap, considering how good he was for them this year. That contract looks really, really good in retrospect. Of all the signings they made, like Trevin Merrick, you paid him what you should for that safety, and he, I think, made good on that.

15:50Mike Jackson is significantly like an incredible contract compared to all the guys that they handed out up front. The Mike Jackson contract looks awesome. He was about as good as a number two corner can be this year. He was awesome. It's always dangerous to think about things in this way, but with Carolina specifically, I think you just try to have incremental gains on both sides of the ball. Can you go from being the 22nd best offense and defense in the league to a top 15 offense and defense next year and just be competitive, just be competitive in the NFC South? I truly think that is a reasonable pathway and a reasonable outcome for next year's Panthers.

16:24I think that's on the table. I feel like you have to be, I think you have to feel pretty good about what you've gotten from Canales and from the staff over the first couple of years and the path that you're on. I think you just keep trying to tread the path that you're on. And that's the thing. I think with the offense, even if I got a question about the quarterback, I can sell myself that just like another year of like, yeah, Ted Rowe and McMillan gets even a little bit better. They figure out how more they want to use all these three tight ends. Those guys stay a little bit healthier. I can, and Canales just honing what he wants to do with the offense.

16:51I can get myself there on that. The defense, it's going to need to be like two pretty significant upgrades up front for me to start to feel good about it. Get to our next one here, the Green Bay Packers. Obviously, the biggest question has to be answered about the Packers. We've gotten some clarity on in the last 24 hours or so. Multiple reports that they're going to start working on an extension for Matt LaFleur. I mean, that's the biggest question about the Matt LaFleur part of this. It's different than some of the other coaching considerations. It's not just whether you want to move on from Matt LaFleur.

17:19It's he's going to be his contract is up after the 2026 season. And so he needs a new contract extension. And I assume he's going to want a lot of money to be the head coach of the Green Bay Packers. I'm not surprised that they're starting that process because I think he should be the head coach of the Green Bay Packers. We've talked about this. I also think he should. I just think optically it is going to look really funny when they give him like a pretty hefty extent extension after the worst loss of his Packers tenure, probably like that is going to look pretty, pretty funny. I spent a lot of time thinking about this on like Sunday morning and just the idea of whether they should move on from him, what that would look like.

17:56And where I land with this is I just don't know who these like magical coaches are, who people think are going to come in and give you better results than somebody like Matt LaFleur has given you. He's missed the playoffs once. They've won like 10 plus games in a majority of those seasons. This is an incredibly frustrating loss. and I'm not trying to diminish that or dismiss that if you're a Packers fan and you're sitting here wanting some heads to roll. I can understand that. But if you just take a step back and you think about what this has been in the last few years when they've pivoted to this version of the roster with Jordan Love and all of the young pieces that they have.

18:32In 23, they, I think they're over under 23, it was like eight and a half. They make the playoffs, they destroy the Cowboys in the wildcard round and then they give the Niners all they can stand on the road in the divisional round. It is a roaring success of a season. The problem is they haven't really built on that and that we can discuss that. But that is a great first step with this version of the Packers, which I think is demonstrably different than the Aaron Rodgers version of the Packers was. In 24, you again surpass your preseason over under. you go on the road and lose to the eventual Super Bowl champions as five-point underdogs as one of the youngest teams in the league.

19:14I think that's totally reasonable. This year, their over-under was 10.5. They finished 9-7-1. They didn't try in Week 18 against the Vikings. If they beat the Vikings in Week 18, they would have had 10.5 wins when you consider the tie. And they flame out in the playoffs, and that's worth considering. But at the same time, I look at this, And I think that there probably should be some reflection and some change based on how the season ended. You do some stuff with the staff. You think about some of your situational processes. That's if there's any serious concern and contention about how Matt LeFleur operates.

19:50It's to me is like he does sometimes play to not lose the game. Like and I obviously it's easy to say that coming off of the Bears game. They just had where they're like trying to play pretty conservatively. I thought in the second half to me, it was the Dallas game. The drive that they have at the end of that, where they are playing for the tying field goal instead of trying to win the game, that to me is insanity. When you have a roster and a quarterback as good as they are, you should be a little bit more aggressive. And it does infuriate me at times that there are moments where it just feels like he doesn't want to put foot to the pedal.

20:21And even some of the timeout usage in this last game, I just think those are the elements of being a head coach that are important. But none of these head coaching candidates or prospects or the guys that you would hire are perfect. None of them have all of these things that all line up at the same time. I just don't think you're going to go out and find somebody that's giving you, when you think about the different ways that you can affect the game as a head coach, and I think Matt LaFleur affects the game as a play-calling offensive head coach in a meaningful way. They are consistently getting an advantage on that side of the ball, and that's incredibly valuable.

20:55Whatever drawbacks he has with some of the situational stuff, I don't think offsets what you're getting in that way. So this idea that you're going to go out and get like a true head coach, that's really going to be a difference maker in that way. What are the chances that if you add it all up in the aggregate, you're going to get the offensive advantage with that sort of coach? Like those guys, your Vrabels, your Harbaugh's, your Dan Campbell's, like those guys are great in some of the situational stuff in that CEO type role. But I think you see the downsides of that. Like you saw with Dan Campbell this year, having to change out coordinators.

21:27You've seen it with Vrabel in the past. When he hasn't had the right coordinator. You see what Jim Harbaugh right now, as he's about to fire his offensive coordinator, even somebody like John Harbaugh, the idea that like, well, what if we replaced Matt LaFleur with John Harbaugh? So you're going to replace your head coach because he's crashing out at the end of some of these games. And you're going to go hire John Harbaugh, who has had the exact same problem over the last couple years. With better rosters and a better quarterback. And I still like John Harbaugh, but you know what I'm saying. I just think that there, there are not these magical solutions.

21:54Like there isn't this perfect coaching candidate out there that is with out question. And even if you're playing the percentages, going to give you a better chance to win with this roster than Matt LaFleur has consistently given you. You can also learn how to do that stuff. And there's a chance that he never does. Maybe this is just a blind spot for him forever. But both Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan are significantly better in those areas than they were two years ago, three years ago. And we saw Sean McVay win a Super Bowl when he wasn't any good at that stuff. I want to say this. The LaFleur, when it comes to the feel of the game type of decisions and like the aggressiveness and all of that that's a different conversation that like going forward on fourth down if you look at it if you look like ben baldwin's numbers no team went forward on fourth down at a higher percentage in the situations where they should this year than the green bay packers so there is like situational decision making where he is doing some of the right things so i just think that we you should not overreact to how the season ends in this way and cut bait with this staff and think that you're going to do better elsewhere, because I just don't think you're going to.

23:00I think this is probably the best coach that you're going to get. And if you want to have some upgrades and Justice Skater has talked a lot about this where they don't really pay their coaches very much. And so the pool of money to pay assistance isn't very high when they are promoting people. Like when Adam Stenevich is the offensive coordinator who's just promoted into that job from the offensive line coach, they just promoted someone else from within the staff to that offensive line coach job. And again, And if you want to reevaluate how you're handling some of that stuff, I think those are the types of smaller changes that are maybe worth making rather than completely hitting the reset button with somebody who has been as successful as Matt LaFleur.

23:34Right. And because then even if you're looking at that from the Packers organization perspective, some of the assistant coaching stuff and whatever, that's not Matt LaFleur's fault. Like you can say that maybe he should hire better people, but if the pool of money to do so is a little bit more pinched, it's harder for him to do that. some of the personnel questions for next year I think is kind of where my mind goes next the defense after the Micah injury they were 29th in EPA per drop back they were 30th in defensive success rate like that defense without Micah Parsons was not good enough and so I wonder what changes there especially if Jeff Haffley gets hired away to be a head coach like you're gonna have to potentially handle that and then some of the personnel stuff Rashaun Gary has a $28 million cap it next year.

24:14I just don't think he's going to play on a$28 million cap it. He's not giving you that sort of impact. I think you probably need another interior defensive lineman, even though Devontae Wyatt's coming back. Quay Walker is hitting free agency. And sadly, it does seem like they probably need an outside corner at some point. And the fact that they gave Nate Hobbs that contract, and now he's sitting there as not one of your top three corners with Bullard and the nickel, but he's making$12 million next year. We talked about this right after the game. Like, I think that the the ways they spent their money and some of their resources this offseason and the fact that all of them look like if not huge misses, then guys who are not actively contributing to making the team better.

24:54That's a tough place to be if you're the Packers. If you spend that much money and those are still your problem points, even if it's not necessarily like glaring red lights, that that is a massive problem. So, yeah, like them, I think the secondary, even though like the Nate Hobbs thing hurts and they're probably going to need to fix the outside corner a little bit to me it really does come down to the defensive line because obviously the way that they bled talent there over the course of the year was kind of insane obviously you trade Kenny Clark which getting Micah Parsons back for that you wouldn't you would much rather have Micah Parsons but you do lose a body on defensive tackle you lose Devonta Wyatt at some point this season and then almost every guy behind Devonta Wyatt at some point was in and out of the lineup at this season I mean there were stretches where they were down to like D lineman six and at certain points in the season.

25:37That wasn't necessarily the case in this last game, but they, I think, really need to fix their depth there because if they can't defend the run and part of what Halfley wants to do is be in some of this too high stuff and throw some of these funky pressures, well, if you're in second and four all the time, who gives a shit? You don't get to do any of that stuff. Be curious what happens with Quay Walker. He's a free agent. He was playing well by the end of the season. The linebackers were one of the strengths of that defense when you're watching them by the end of the season. So if he's gone, then that's somebody that you potentially need to replace, which that's worth considering.

26:06Anything else about the Packers? Anything else about just what's on your mind as it relates to the end of this Green Bay Packers season and what might need to be a little bit different next year? I'm actually fine if they move forward with what the skill players are. Because again, they still don't have a superstar, but they've got enough guys. Christian Watson played incredibly well. I totally agree with that. The offensive line needs help again. And it is going to be hard to find where they get that. Obviously, you don't have a first-round pick. I think your first pick is at 52 or something like that.

26:35you don't necessarily have a ton of money to throw around and they're also in a weird spot where it's like they've spent so many resources there recently that I wonder if they just feel stuck like they have to move forward like you just drafted Jordan Morgan a couple of years ago he's he's been struggling for you uh you just paid Aaron Banks who has been not like a disaster but you probably would have wanted more for what you paid him uh and then Anthony Belton I think is a little bit all over the place and they're not sure what they're going to get he was a rookie I mean he is playing a bunch of different positions.

27:02You can give him another time. Yeah. I think with that group specifically, if you're looking at where they've invested and who's potentially moving on, Rasheed Walker, their left tackle over the last couple of years is a free agent. It seems to me like we might walk in the training camp next year with Jordan Morgan at left tackle, Aaron Banks at left guard, a question mark at center, because I'm not sure they can bring Jenkins back at$24 million. And Sean Ryan, who played center for them after Jenkins got hurt, he's also a free agent. Anthony Belton at right guard, Zach Tom at right tackle. We just talked about.

27:33That does not sound good. At this point. Yeah, exactly. That's the problem. That might have to be the group that you're working with. And so, and we just talked about the patellar tendon thing with Aquanu. Zach Tom has a partially torn patellar tendon. And so who knows how quickly he's going to be back. So that's definitely the group on offense where there's concern. The pass catchers, Dobbs is a free agent. I think you're likely going to lose him. because unless you want to tag him, which is going to be a ton of money, he's going to get paid in free agency. It's funny that the position that was one of the wastelands in free agency over the last couple of years was a receiver.

28:09And then this year, between him and Pierce, those are two of the most intriguing free agents of the entire class with the way that Dobbs was playing by the end of the season. But I think if you're rolling next year into the season with Watson and the way that he played this year, Golden, Jaden Reed and Tucker Kraft, you're fine. I think that's more than enough at receiver because I do think even if Golden didn't really do produce a ton this year, I think you saw enough from him where when you think about like complimentary skill sets with the other two guys, I do think that's actually like a really solid trio to build around, especially when you're going to put Kraft back into the mix.

28:46He's talented, man. Like I, I would wager some of the issues they had with him was just like a coach like Matt LaFleur. I think sometimes with rookies can get a little bit, can just get a little bit hairy. And I figure it was a lot of that. And so hopefully with just a little bit more development going into next year, he is a guy who, again, maybe he's not the superstar you want when the Packers finally spend a first round pick at wide receiver. But I do think that he'll be a nice piece. He was the 22nd pick in the draft. Yeah. It's not like they spent like the ninth pick on, you know, Jalen Waddle or whoever it was.

29:14All right, let's take our first quick break and then come back and talk a little bit about the Jacksonville Jaguars.

29:23I'm going to let you start us off here. I want to know where your offseason anxieties potentially lie or where your thoughts are right now as we sit in the end of the 2025 Jags season. I think the word I come to is content. Like I would have liked to see them go further because I do think that this was a good team and they were playing really, really well. But like I'm fine with how the especially the second half of this year gone. And there's going to be a couple of questions to answer, but I said this to you after wildcard weekend, I think before we went live on the show. The Jaguars were the only team where I feel the only team who lost.

29:56So that we'll talk about today. But I feel pretty good about where they're going in 2026 and also did not embarrass themselves this weekend. Because like the Packers, I still feel fine about where they're going to be in 2026. They were embarrassing. The Eagles will probably be fine in 2026. They were embarrassing. The Panthers were actually not embarrassing. I have a lot of questions about where they're going to be in 2026. Even the Chargers, like, they'll probably be fine. They were embarrassing. The Jaguars were truly the only team where it was like, you played a good game, you had a good season.

30:24Josh Allen was on fire for four quarters. And sometimes you just lose a game that way. I don't necessarily disagree. I'm curious where your optimism lies in them being okay in 2026. So if you're trying to build me the case for why this team is going to be competitive again next year, where do you think that starts? the offensive line or the offense the offensive line is actually the one question I have the offense in general assuming they they so stay relatively healthy like I think the continuity there with Cohen Trevor Lawrence getting another year in the system like they're keeping Jacoby Myers Parker Washington will be back for next season he still has another year on his contract you've got Brian Thomas Jr.

31:01who hopefully can get a little bit more comfortable in the offense and like get back to what he was as a rookie going to next year like even if I've got some questions about what the offensive line was. I still think the continuity, the firepower on offense, I'm there. The defense, I have some more questions about. And I think some of the numbers over the back half of last season or of this season were, they were playing a lot of bad quarterbacks. I still like a lot of what they did schematically. And I think they tackle really well. The front, I think, is still really good. Secondary, especially the corners, got some questions.

31:29But part of my hope in there is like, Travis Hunter will be playing corner next year. When the receiver room... I certainly hope so. Because here's the thing. He's... Where you would play him in the offense would basically be Parker Washington snaps. I think at this stage, this sounds crazy. You cannot take Parker Washington off the field for Travis Hunter. Like he's a dynamic player, but Parker Washington was really awesome for them. It would be crazy to take him off the field for him. I think part of this is just... And your biggest hole is corner. That's the reason is that obviously we know that receivers, when you're looking at just the market in general, receivers make a lot more than corners at this point.

32:04Receivers are more valuable positions in the way that we reward them in the NFL right now than corners are. But if you look at the makeup of this roster, and even if, let's say you traded Brian Thomas Jr., they're very different players. They play very different roles within the offense. And so even if you wanted to do that, I'm not sure that's enough of a justification. That's not enough of a justification to move Travis Hunter back to receiver. So Buster Brown and Greg Newsome are both hitting free agency this offseason. And so you have a need at corner and you just drafted a guy who is a, an incredibly talented corner.

32:36So just sliding him in there, one of those outside corner spots and rolling with what you have at receiver, I think it makes total sense. Even if though, you are going to move Travis Hunter to corner, if I were another team, I'd call about Brian Thomas Jr. I would too. Like I, I don't know what the deal was this year. I think once they found a little bit of a role for him, I think that they'll be happy that he can be like their field stretching X, but I would at least see what the deal was there and try to try to see if I can get an answer. If I was Buffalo, I've called the day after the season ends.

33:08Okay. Not that it really matters because they're not in the same division, but can you imagine Buffalo beating your ass and then in the offseason, they're like, can we take your 6-4 extra receiver? You can't let that affect your decision-making. You got to do what's best for the team. I'll be curious what that looks like. I'm pretty sure I land on, unless I'm blown away, it's worth having him on the team. That skill set and what he provides for you there, you need that within the offense and that's the best version of it you're going to get. But I would at least call if I were another team because of just how strange this season went.

33:40I think the case for optimism is pretty much what you laid out. After the bye, after the bye, they were 12th in offensive success rate and 6th in EPA per play. That team, which Kobe Myers with Parker Washington, which Harvey Lawrence getting settled, that offense looked really good. On defense, they were 6th in defensive success rate and 3rd in EPA per play. Some of that is driven by the competition that they played in the corners. you're not going to create 31 turnovers or 30 you're not going to have 31 takeaways next year most likely so that's I think part of the pessimistic case if you wanted to spin it that way but I think there's a lot to work with here and I'm in the same boat you are I think the DB room and linebacker too because Devin Lloyd is hitting free agency I think that's personnel wise the biggest consideration that this team has to address especially on defense as we head into next year it will be like Devin Lloyd played played really well this year and he'll get paid by somebody.

34:30I think when you're a linebacker who's really only had like 12 good games for it, like I'm not that worried about them losing him. I think I have some amount of faith that they'll be able to replace him. Bancho Miller has actually given them a decent backup snaps. I don't know if he'll be the starter, but it doesn't worry me that much. And I also, I think there's an element that might be like, oh, well, Anthony Campanile might get hired away to be a head coach. He's great. I really think that he is. I would be shocked if after just this one season, he gets hired away. Like to only have done it once and not been like a dominant, dominant defense, it would be like kind of shocking that he already gets that kind of call.

35:06It'd be surprising. I mean, I feel like in this cycle where there's a lot of just defensive coaches and it seems like kind of a strange year for coaching candidates. I don't necessarily know if I'd be shocked, but I do think it would be surprising if he got a job after one year. In terms of resources for this team, it's an interesting team because it's not a typical like year one explosion because they've spent a lot of money. They have negative$7 million in cap space as things currently stand. They've handed out a lot of substantial deals that will still be on the books in some capacity next year.

35:38Walker Little, Eric Armstead, Foyal Lukan, Josh Hines-Allen, Patrick McCary, Jordan Lewis. They're eating$40 million in dead money for the Tyson Campbell, Gabe Davis, and Darnell Savage contracts. And so it's an expensive team for this to be their breakout season, essentially. Like this idea that, oh, we can really build on this. And this is kind of the first stage of it. The resources don't really align with that, especially when you consider they don't have a first round pick because the Travis Hunter trade, but they still have four top 100 picks because of the Isaac Tesla trade. So they have two additional third round picks because of that deal.

36:14So they have four picks in the top 100. And then over the last few years, there is like compared to the Panthers, especially like the Panthers have these two or three draft classes that are just non-existent. the Jags made a lot of like second through fourth round picks over the last few years and even beyond that like Parker Washington was a six-round pick Antonio Johnson was a mid-round or day two day three pick there is Jones last year was a third-round pick there are like six to eight guys over the last few drafts that are contributing players to this team so even if they've spent a decent amount of money in free agency and it's an expensive roster compared to Carolina like I said there isn't an underlying level of talent.

36:53There is kind of an underlying level of talent to this Jaguars team. Yeah. Like cost control talent. Right. So, and again, like them, I really hope a lot of those picks go towards the offensive line because I do think part of the problem is one, finding offensive linemen, particularly along the interior that you would want to sign in this cycle might be difficult, but they also spent a lot. I mean, not a lot, a lot. They were mid round or like mid tier contracts, but they spent on center and right guard last off season. And so to like dip back into the free agency pool would be hard. I think it would make more sense if like maybe that first third round pick is like an offensive lineman that you just hope wins a camp battle and does something for you.

37:29I think that's right. It reminds me a little bit, and I don't think they'll be as aggressive in some of the solutions the same way that this team was. It's what Washington did last year where they had El Gretti and Andrew Wiley. And those guys were like year one starters that were kind of like stopgap players. that did not prevent them from using draft capital to try to get to upgrade at those spots. And so they go out, they sign, they draft Josh Connerly in the first round while he gets bumped down a spot. Like if they did that with the left guard in the center this year, I don't think that would necessarily be surprising.

38:03McCary is making too much to justify that. He's making like 15 million, but the other interior spots, like I don't think that's crazy at all. Look, I'm actually curious. Yeah, Hainsey's making$8 million against the cap next year. You can move on from that as a starter and not really have much of an issue with that. If that's just a depth piece for you, I think you can justify that as just like he's your swing guy. Again, that's kind of a similar range to what the Washington guys were making. The one that probably needs to be addressed in some way, Walker Little has a$15 million cap hit next year, and Colvin Landon beat him out as your starting left tackle.

38:36And so I would not be surprised if they tried to move on from Little in some capacity. they cannot cut him because they would actually lose cap space he has 18 million dollars in dead money but if they traded him they'd save about seven and a half million dollars in space and even if he got beat out by van lan and he has an 11 million dollar base salary for a team that needs like a capable tackle somewhere and the rotation i think that's a call worth making potentially somebody would give you a very late round draft pick to just like give you a shot at that and free up the money for you anything else anything else on your mind about this Jags team uh the the only other player that I don't think we really mentioned in terms of pending free agents is Travis Etienne yes I think they'll be fine if they just let him walk like I think he had a decent season but I actually really liked what the they got from a couple of their other backs as role players Basial Tootin and LaQuinn Allen and then I also just think that that's a position that for them and for like what Etienne gave them I think it would not be that difficult for them to replace him either with some other cheap free agent running back or spend, you know, third, fourth round pick on a guy like that and try to replace him.

39:44What is your confidence level that the 2026 Jags will be as good as the 2025 Jags were? Not that high because they're going to play a first place schedule. And I do think, again, some of the takeaways are going to go away. And like, I do think that it's more likely that they end up a team that is like, barring some sort of crazy move that they make that gets some superstar in here, which I don't foresee, given that they don't have a first round pick to really wield. I imagine they'll probably be like a 9-10 win team, which is fine, but not quite as exciting as it was this year. I think that's probably where I went to.

40:15They lost like 10 total starts from the offensive line this year, which isn't nothing. They were banged up. It was like two games here, two games there. So they were relatively healthy there. They were six and three in one score games. They're plus 13 in the turnover margin. So there is a chance they take a slight step back. But I think there is justified reasons for optimism when it comes to what the most important pieces of the franchise now look like. You hope that if the offense is what it was for the last eight weeks, the whole year, that kind of washes away some of the other areas that you might regress.

40:44Yeah, I 100 % agree. All right, we're going to take one more quick break and then come back and talk about our last two teams.

40:54The Philadelphia Eagles. I feel like we don't have to spend a ton of time on this one because we did more of it on the recap show than we did with some of the other teams. because to me, it's just not that complicated. Like this is the simplest one to me when it comes to the offseason question that questions that need to be answered about the Eagles. I don't know if you agree. No, I'm pretty clear about what they need to do. Even some of the pending free agents is just like, I have a pretty good idea of who you should let walk and who you should try to keep in the building. Jalen Phillips, given what you traded for him and how insanely good he was for you when you got him, I think you absolutely have to keep him.

41:26The other role players on the defense, like Reed Blankenship has been really nice for them. You can probably let him walk and replace him. N 'Kobe Dean I know he's really fun and like an awesome blitzer you just drafted Jahad Campbell you can probably just let N 'Kobe Dean walk like Fred Johnson like I know he's been decent for them as like a swing tackle backup tackle you're the Eagles like you run an offensive line factory you can probably let him go like I think a lot of the choices that they have to make here are pretty simple really the only complicated one is like there's clearly a rift between AJ Brown the quarterback all that stuff going on you just can't really move AJ Brown this year they can actually do it fairly easily after this year and it's not going to really kill them but this off season does make it pretty difficult he has four it's a 44 million dollar dead cap head if he's traded before june 1st and so you'd have to trade him after june 1st for it to be palatable financially whether that's what they want they have the appetite for that and they feel like it's something they need to do i i can't speak to that aj brown is a really good player and i think i'd rather just try to fix the ecosystem offensively before i traded aj brown right now they have four top 100 picks because they, I don't know, I'm curious where that one came from.

42:30They have a third round pick from the Jets, which is just one of my favorite things about the Eagles every single off season is looking at the picks they have. And like, I wonder where that one came from. Who did they steal that one from? Let's look at this. I want to find out the answer to it because I think it'd probably be a, it'd be fun to know. Oh, the Hassan Reddick trade. Oh my God. That's very Eagles to get that back. and Redick is on neither of those teams now, by the way. So because of the Hassan-Redick trade, the Eagles have the 68th pick in the draft. So it's not even just that it's a third round pick.

43:03It is the fourth pick of the third round that the Eagles now have in the Hassan-Redick trade, which is just wonderful. And they gave up the 87th pick in the Jalen Phillips trade. That's good business. That's real good business. They typically do a lot of this. And so that's the other thing that makes this not very complicated. It's like in terms of the money decisions that they have to make, you know where it's going to go in terms of like Jalen Phillips and where it's not going to go. I don't know if it's going to go to Jalen Phillips necessarily. I think it should. I think he should be this year's version of what they did with Bond, where maybe he wasn't in your plans originally, but he's played well enough within the defense that you could justify bringing him back.

43:43A hundred percent. So like at least in my mind, that's where it would go. And then there are some of these other teams where the Jaguars, the draft gets complicated because you don't have a first round pick or whatever. The Eagles are going to have their first round pick. And like you said, three other top 100 picks. They have all the resources to be good again. Assuming they just get offensive coordinator back to a competent level, somebody who's done it before. This team, if they can fix the vibes a little bit and get A.J. Brown happy, this team will win. They'll walk to 11 wins next year. Offensive coordinator is going to be the biggest question.

44:12We know that. And my assumption is it'll be somebody who's called plays before. The exact same way they did it with Kellen Moore. The name that I keep coming back to just because he's available in this cycle, he's shown the ability to do this before with a talented roster and with a talented quarterback specifically. They hire a guy like Brian Dable. You have Brian Dable and Vic Fangio heading into next year. You have this roster back again. I just don't, again, I don't know how much more complicated it is than that. And it's funny, you actually posed this to me before the show. I recoiled hearing the name Brian Dable just because of how weird the last couple of years with the Giants have been.

44:45but we have seen him have success with this like style of quarterback before one he literally did it in college with Jalen Hurts when they were at Alabama and then I think just in terms of like overall physical skill set you can make a good case that what both Daniel Jones and Jackson Dart are it's like not that dissimilar from Jalen Hurts just in terms of some of the throws they like to make physical ability some of the rushing capabilities all that stuff like I if if Brian Dable can get them back to C plus play calling, which is really all that it takes, they'll probably be fine. I totally agree.

45:19And we said it last night on the show. I just think it's about clearing a certain bar of competency. And I think Brian Dable clears that bar of competency. And so trying to go out and get somebody like that, I don't think Sirianni should lose his job. Like, but this cycle of go to the Super Bowl or crash out, go to the Super Bowl or crash out every single year is pretty maddening if you were to root for this team. But I don't think it's frustrating enough for you to be considering that sort of change in this moment. Yeah, again, you have to have two years in a row like that, where it really starts to.

45:51And if they do have two years in a row, we will have that conversation. I think the Eagles will probably be ready to have that conversation if it doesn't come together next year. The personnel stuff, you mentioned this a little bit. Blankenship's a free agent, so I think that's something you potentially may need to address. You have Makuba coming back from injury this year, but I'm not sure there's another guy in the safety pipeline on that team. like are we going to roll into next season when Sidney Brown is a starter? Probably not, right? So that's an area that probably needs to be addressed.

46:16And then they need to do something to upgrade that other outside corner spot, whether that's in the draft, whether that's in free agency, like that should be a priority this offseason. And then the other spot that I think is something they should consider when it comes to where they're spending their resources this year, it's probably time to start committing some like real draft sources to the resources of the offensive line again. For in two spots, like Lane's going to be 36 in May. and he's been healthier in recent years, but I think it's worth protecting yourself there. Like trying to figure out the heir apparent to him at tackle and giving yourself like a solid talented option as your swing tackle.

46:53If they drafted a tackle in the first round next year, I don't think that would be shocking. No, I don't think that would be crazy at all. Like this is a team that has consistently been like you plan a little bit ahead. Them and Dallas, I think, have always done a really good job of even planning ahead at offensive line when they have to. if they spent a first round pick on it again because they're in the luxury of it would be nice if their first round pick played for them next year the roster is so good that they kind of can burn a redshirt year on like a first round tackle that you're trying to get ready behind lane johnson if they had i don't think that's a misallocation of resources whatsoever or honestly they really wanted to just play play him at right guard this upcoming season because i think if they replaced tyler steen this offseason it wouldn't be that crazy and that was the next thing i was going to say probably trying to find probably time to try to find another right guard somewhere through the draft, like with a potential, like a day to pick like a second round pick, a third round pick that spot and getting better at that spot and trying to reestablish like a truly dominant offensive line all the way across the board.

47:48So you can hopefully get back to the way you were running the ball a couple of years ago. I think that should be near the top of your priority list. Last one here, the Los Angeles chargers. I think we have to start with what is kind of newsy, right? Like, so after the game, Jim Harbaugh was asked about whether he thinks Greg Roman should be the offensive coordinator, whether that he should be back. And he essentially said in the moment, I don't have an answer to that right now. He wouldn't commit to it. And I feel like that was his answer to a lot of stuff afterwards. But if that's your response, when somebody asks you if your offensive coordinator is going to be back, seems like it's something that's worth paying attention to.

48:22The answer is probably that he's gone. And ultimately, I've seen people making these jokes about this, like on Blue Sky or whatever. Ultimately, every Harbaugh regime comes to a point where Greg Roman, you run out of road with what it could be and I do think like the Greg Roman offense has a lot of issues that was also compounded by how bad and banged up the offensive line was but we've we've known and we've seen with his offenses that he I think struggles to come up with answers when he's got like one hand tied behind his back and I think that's ultimately where they landed in this playoff game where they got thoroughly outcoached in that game by the New England Patriots who was on a who was on a backup defensive coordinator effectively like Zach Kerr was not supposed to be their play caller coming into this year.

49:03The injuries are the injuries for the Chargers offensive line, but the linemen that they came into the season with that were healthy did not play well. It was failed. It was Milton Williams in the backfield all game against your starting guard. The interior all season was a massive problem. And I feel like if you watch that group, their inability to pick up stuns, some of the protection stuff, that is a, there is, there are talent issues with the Chargers offensive line. And when you're playing with second, third, fourth string tackles, you are going to notice that, but you don't want to absolve the coaching staff and just say, oh, the group was hurt.

49:35Like it doesn't matter. It was not a well orchestrated offense independent of the offensive line injuries. And so if they think that we reached that point in the Harbaugh life cycle, that it's time to move on and go somewhere else. I get that. And like, does Herbert get the same Todd Munkin type boost that Lamar got? And I feel like if he does, I'll be curious to see what that version of the offense looks like. I really hope so, man. And we came this. None of this is like revisionist history on our part. We came into this offseason being like this interior is not good enough. Like Zion Johnson, I think, has been really up and down for them for a lot of his career.

50:09And then Bradley Bozeman, I thought it was questionable for them to continue with him. And then they tried to like flip flop those two in camp. They bring in Andre James for like extra help at the center spot. Like they were trying to shuffle around that interior. ultimately landed like where they were before and put in Becton at right guard who the Becton one it's like okay you get it he's you know finally looked like he found a little bit of life in Philly you're running a scheme that theoretically could fit some of his strengths but then he just kind of flames out and doesn't really do anything for you like a lot of the bets that they made and a lot of what they were trying to do process wise on the interior just none of it came to fruition I feel like this is one of those moments where all right you try to do it the cheap way.

50:49No more half measures. Like you have$103 million in cap space this year. Is it worth just saying we're going to go out and get two new starters on the interior? Joe Walt's going to be back next season, right? Joe Walt has said, he said today that his ankle injury was as like layered and multifaceted as it could have been. He said, I think the exact quote was everything that you could do to an ankle I did, but I think it's like a four to five month recovery process. He should be ready for the season. Rashawn LaSlater is yet another offensive tackle that's going to be coming back from that torn patellar injury and we'll see what his return timeline looks like but that happened in training camp and so optimistically maybe he's ready for the beginning of this season so you have both your tackles back i'm fine rolling with beckton again as your right guard like you've committed to him he signed a two-year deal that's what are you going to do yeah if he's going to be your right guard next year that's fine those two other spots you have 103 million dollars in cap space this is the team where just throw some money at Tyler Linderbaum, throw some money at David Edwards, use that money to kind of leave no doubt about the talent level of your offensive line.

51:49Because if you can do that, and if you can hire a staff or an offensive coordinator that can give you a better protection plan and not consistently get picked on all year, you have a talent personnel solution up front. You have a schematic solution up front. I'm fine with the current collection of pass catchers. Like I'm fine with that group. I'm not sure you need to go out and do anything drastic there. It would look better if the quarterback was not under siege. Yes. Every single snap. And I'm not sure it would, you know, anyone would ever put it in the top 10 pass catching groups in the league or anything.

52:20But I think when Justin Herbert is your quarterback, it doesn't need to be that. It just needs to be like fine and have a couple of guys who can play a couple of different roles and just not have him killed in the pocket every snap. If you want to draft another receiver in the second round and because Keenan Allen's getting older, you're probably going to move on from him. and it's McConkie, Trey Harris, Quentin Johnston, and then you're adding a little bit of competition to that group with Gadsden, that's fine to me. Like, I think that is a reasonable offense personnel-wise, especially if you're going to swap out the offensive coordinator and start over systematically.

52:48So that's where I would use a decent chunk of the free agent money. The other spot that needs to be addressed just in terms of the roster, the defensive front. So many of these guys are hitting free agency. Kloomak is a free agent, Tyer Tart is a free agent, Deshaun Hand is a free agent, and Odafe Owe is a free agent. so I would assume some of that money is potentially going to go to retaining a couple of those guys like Taylor Tartt was awesome for them this year and so I think you'd have a hard time replacing a guy like Taylor Tartt with a cheaper option or some sort of draft pick. Oh it was really good for them this year he's a young player so how they spend that money and who they want who they choose to bring back I'll be really curious what that looks like.

53:27I will too because honestly I think all those guys play well like Sean Hand was actually pretty good for them I thought as a run defender this year obviously Tiger Tartt was incredible Khalil Mack is not you know 2022 Khalil Mack but he's still pretty damn good and was like a really really good run defender which especially for the way you're trying to play defense I actually think is incredibly valuable so I do think the front needs to get fixed and then I would still they have the weirdest outside cornerback room in the league I like Cam Hart for what he is if you could get somebody better that would probably be great like Cam Hart as a depth piece, fine, but think you need to go out and really commit to that this year.

54:06That's exactly what I wrote in my notes in terms of what they might need to do at corner. That's pretty nails. Like if he has to play and there are certain matchups where he's great as a 17-week starter, there are some games and some times where you're like, we wish we had somebody else out here. The offensive line and corner specifically are two positions where they were like, all right, let's see if we can tinker and figure it out. It didn't work. Okay, let's bring a little bit more of a hammer into this offseason and see if you can get some more expensive solutions there. I think that's totally fine.

54:33I actually will say to go back to the offense a little bit quickly, obviously offensive line is the big thing they need to solve. I would like a little bit more help at tight end. I actually think if they could get guys who are stronger role players at that position, like this isn't a hit on Gadsden. I actually think he's a nice young player. But he is what he is. Right, exactly. He is what he is. He's a pass catcher. Exactly. I would like a little bit more of a full tight end room, especially for the way that I think even when they change the offensive coordinator, I assume like multiple tight end sets are still going to be part of the way they run this thing.

55:01It's a Jim Harbaugh team. Well, it's funny. We were talking about this during the game yesterday and how the Chargers have the stoutest group of skilled position players in the league. Like the Tucker Fisk and Scott Matlock snaps that we get on that side of the ball. Like not sure we need that many more of those. Yeah. No, I think we're kind of done with that. Two other big questions for me or just two other conversations as it relates to this team. what hurts even worse than bottoming out and potentially needing a new offensive coordinator is that it seems like there's a real chance you're losing the coordinator of the unit that got you here so far jesse mentor has requests from at least three teams that i saw the titans the browns and the ravens for their head coaching job and i feel like he is a very strong candidate to get one of those jobs he has done an exceptional he's done exceptional work over the last couple years And I thought that he was really, really, really good this season.

55:55And so if you lose him, then you're having to replace what has been like probably a top five defensive coordinator over the last couple of years. Steve Klingscale is their defensive backs coach. He was, I think, Minter's co-defensive coordinator at Michigan. And so they do have somebody that they could probably promote into that job. But who knows? Jesse Minter did such a good job over the last couple of seasons that there is a very real chance that schematically you take a step back on defense. And that is the best thing about what your team has been over the last couple of years. And again, like we've talked about when you're changing defensive coordinator specifically, there's usually a one year buffer period before you get to whatever your best self is going to be.

56:35And so even if they promote within, you're still trying to figure out the ins and outs of like, OK, when do I call stuff? How do I layer some of my pressures and stuff like that? And so you have that element of it if they promote within. And then I do think Jim Harbaugh is obviously well-connected enough. He's consistently hired really good coordinators that he could find somebody else. Like if, you know, the Titans, like if Denard Wilson is on the market, like somebody like that, like they could totally find another answer. But Jesse Minter, really outside of like a couple of the clear guys at the very top, like Mike McDonald was as good as it gets as a defensive play caller.

57:07The last thing I feel like we should talk about before we move on with this team is just another playoff disappointment from the quarterback. I don't want to ignore that. And I went back and I watched that game again this morning. And when you go back and you watch a game after having watched it in real time, often you come away with different opinions or conclusions. It's like, oh, actually going back and re-watching it, this is how I see it. I kind of feel the same way now that I did after watching it in real time. Like this idea that they were out-schemed, top to bottom on that side of the ball, The offensive line still didn't play well.

57:42There were probably five to seven plays to be made by the quarterback in that game that he did not make. And he deserves to be criticized for that. Because if you're going to be one of the guys, you need to be able to transcend a lack of help on that side of the ball. I was way more disappointed in the way he played in this game than in the game last year against the Texans in the playoffs. At least that game he was like trying. That was a systemic collapse last year against the Texans. They got outcoached in this game. This was not a systemic collapse. He played way worse, in my opinion, in this game than he did against the Texans last year.

58:21And that's extremely disappointing. Like, if you're going to be one of the guys, you should be able to transcend what's happening around you more than he was able to yesterday. I 100 % agree. And I will say, like, I don't think that there are many guys who could have transcended how bad it was. but it's not like he needed to transcend it and score 30 points he needed 17 points yes exactly like that was the type of game that he was playing and he ultimately struggled to do that like I it's it's such a tricky conversation too because it's like I think the biggest issues that Herbert had in this game were one he was not seeing it well whenever he came off his first read in particular and he was not accurate the Herbert's entire career will tell you those are not issues but ultimately you get to this game you're pressured I think I was looking this up he He was pressured like almost 57 % of the time, which is the highest pressure rate in a game over the last two years.

59:09But still, he's had moments this year where he could overcome that against better defenses like the Philadelphia Eagles. And in this game, he just kind of had nothing. And that's it. You're right in that it is a tricky conversation because I can understand if you're somebody who is a Justin Herbert skeptic and you look at this game and be like, well, why does he keep playing his worst football in the playoffs? And I'm somebody that, and I've said this over and over and over again, Like, I don't think how a quarterback season ends should discount everything that came before it. They shouldn't have been in the playoffs, if not for how well he played for a lot of the season.

59:42Yes. And so I don't think it should discount everything else that happened this season. But at the same time, like if you are going to be one of the best quarterbacks in the league, you cannot consistently be having your worst performances in the playoffs. And that's exactly what's that's exactly what's been happening. I don't go I wouldn't go as far as to say, like, the playoff bone in his body doesn't function. Like, I just don't know if that's a thing. But if this continues to happen, then I don't know what other reasonable conclusion you can reach other than he just doesn't have it in these moments, which is not a place I typically go.

1:00:15But if you keep stacking these up, then I don't know where else you're going to be able to land. Right. At a certain point, if it happens, if it ends up happening like six or seven times and it's like, OK, this this does start to become a problem. I'm still willing to, especially the last to explain them away to some degree, given how bad the offensive line was. But again, I'm just, I would have liked to have seen him play better in that game. It was, there were some chances. It was a disappointing performance. And again, I come back to the same place I was at last night. I think that he's almost overcompensated for their, my frustrations with Justin Herbert in the early parts of his career.

1:00:50And that, that's, what's funny is that I think that there, the criticisms of what he was last night are very, very different than the criticisms of what he was early in his career. Early in his career, my frustrations with Justin Herbert, whereas he was like, risk-averse robot. He was like Derek Carr-ish. And so watching what he was last night, we need something in the middle of those two things. We need something where he is taking chances and he's trying to be the best player on the field, but he's not doing that at the expense of making the right decisions. And that's what was happening last night, where he's just going into hero mode so quickly that when there are opportunities to be made within structure, he's not making those opportunities, but that's so far removed from what his shortcomings were even like two years ago that I don't think this is some like continuation of the problems that Justin Herbert has had in the past.

1:01:41It's been like a moving target as to what is negatively affecting him. And that's kind of the thing too, is like, you just hope that him going so far outside of himself over the last two years, especially like as a scrambler and as a runner, you hope that that finds its middle ground somewhere. You hope that it finds its level, especially and I do think that there will be a higher chance that it does find his level if he's not getting killed every play. Yes. Like if the pass protection gets to 20th best in the league and he doesn't feel as frantic as he did in some of these moments, then maybe he does start to like settle to a point where, OK, I can take some of these shots where I need them.

1:02:15Some of these other times I just don't have to do that. But it is frustrating that he's oscillated between these games and these letdowns where early in his career was not doing enough despite the talent to these moments where it's like, buddy, we need to like settle down a little bit. And you hope that a system, a coordinator that instill and pass protection that instills a certain level of trust can get you to a place where you find that middle ground. And I'm not trying to make excuses like this is this is tough. This is a tough place to land if you're somebody that believes in him. As someone who also believes in him, this is probably the most frustrating one of his losses that I've watched because because even like, you know, we can say whatever we one about how he played in the second half of the loss against um the chargers that is a defensive letdown like that is a defensive letdown in that game and then the texans game is just like you are flatly outgunned you were not systemic failure yes yes like you were simply outgunned in that game the the patriots game you can argue because the offensive line is still so bad that it's a very difficult position to be in but that's not like a world-beating patriots team like they came out with a good game plan, but that is not like a world-beating talent front that you just lost to.

1:03:24In my opinion of the three playoff losses, this is easily the one which he was most culpable for. Yes. And I think people would look at the, how many interceptions did he throw against Texas last year? Yeah, and they'd be like, that's a crazy thing to say. To me, it's not even like, it's not even close. Like I'm way more frustrated and disappointed in the way he played last night than I am with the way he played in that Texas game last year. He wasn't putting throws anywhere near his receiver, let alone DBs. The ball just wasn't even in the area to be picked off. The offense could not function against the Texans last year.

1:03:55They could function last night. They just didn't. And he deserves a chunk of the blame for that. All right. That is all we've got for today. I think right now in your podcast feed, our recap from last night's game between the Texans and the Steelers should be available for you. So if you have not listened to that already, encourage you to go check that out. We'll be having a bunch more shows coming your way this week on the feed. Building the Beast will be in its normal spot on Wednesday. I'll be back on Thursday recapping the latest coaching news. We had to do that again. I mean, there's no way that we could just bypass all of the coaching cycle stuff because so much stuff has happened since we did our initial check-in on Black Monday.

1:04:37Mike McDaniel was fired. John Harbaugh was fired. So Kevin Stefanski is interviewed for a bunch of these jobs. John Harbaugh seems like he might be trending toward being the Giants coach. There's just a bunch of stuff that we're going to have to hit and so that's going to be your way on thursday And then once again this week, we're going to be breaking our divisional preview into two separate shows one for saturday one for sunday So a ton more coming your guys way over the next five days or so For now, that's all we got appreciate you guys listening. Talk to you very soon