Takeaways from the 2026 NFL Scouting Combine

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1:25Dave Helman: welcome to another episode of building the beast i am dave hellman dane brugler and i are fresh off the nfl combine dane literally drove in on sunday and was like i got notes i got stuff i am bursting to talk about we need to talk about these workouts and that's exactly what we did we basically went through thursday all the way through sunday talked about the big winners maybe the guys that left a little bit out there and the guys who just didn't do anything as participation at the combine definitely something worth talking about a really jam-packed episode as we put the combine behind us and the real meat of draft season can get going now we know who everybody is from here on out we can just argue about how to slot them but first let's break down everything we learned at the nfl combine really fun episode with myself and dane let's do it

2:20Dave Helman: I got to tell you, Dane, it's surreal being back with you on Zoom, considering we just spent the week together. But I very much felt like we were ships passing in the night. Like we had dinner together. We had a couple conversations over the course of the week. But by and large, you are the busiest man in Indianapolis with all the people that require your attention. And I'm trying to do the athletic football show things. I've got shows with Robert and Derek. We're talking like free agency and stuff. whereas you're 100 % draft all the time. So it's kind of surreal being back with you after the different rhythms of our combine week.

2:58Dane Brugler: Yeah, it's funny how, first of all, the week just flies. Like, I don't know. I was there for eight days and I don't know. You blink and it's over. It's kind of crazy. There's just so much to do throughout the week that it just feels like it goes by really fast. But there's so much to learn. And I feel like we did just that. We learned a lot, whether it's from the interviews, whether it was from getting some tidbits from just talking to scouts and agents and coaches. Obviously, the on-field stuff, there's plenty to get from what we saw out there. So, yeah, let's try to condense it into a tidy little wrap up as best we can.

3:39Dave Helman: We can definitely do that. Before we dive into the prospects, the names, the drills, the groups that were really impressive, maybe just some notes on the actual workouts and the week that was, which I don't expect anybody in the NFL to care about my advice. this week. And it's been this way for a while, right? But I felt such a disconnect between the fact that we descend on Indy on Monday into Tuesday morning, and then you wait around until Thursday for all of the actual drills to get going. It feels very anticlimactic when people are leaving town just as the workouts are getting going. And then we probably didn't give this enough time prior to the combine day and maybe it was the wishful thinking in me.

4:26Dave Helman: I was hoping for, for better, but my big impression coming out of this other than a dozen impressive names is nobody's doing anything, man. Like there's nowhere near as much to get excited about coming out of this combine. When you look and see the huge number of guys that just didn't participate in things or picked and choose chose what they participated in. I mean, the three cone as a drill that the league does at the combine is on life support coming out of this. And I think not to put a damper on the excitement of the combine, but my big takeaway after four ways of watch four days of watching drills was like, man, the league's got to come up with a creative way to get the participation in this stuff back up if they can.

5:15Dane Brugler: it was literally the fastest just using the 40-yard dash data the fastest for every single position we've ever seen at the combine except for quarterback it was second fastest and the main reason for that is because the guys that can't run didn't run but the guys that could run did run and they ran fast and so if you eliminate the guys that don't run great it just pushes the average up and so yeah the three cone is my favorite drill by far um just the change of direction and the ability to um the shorter not just to get off the short area quickness and the ability to finish like that is something that translates to every position and it's something that i think uh translates well to the football field and it's not something you know you see four guys at this position do it five guys at this position we just don't see a high participation rate i think only one running back did it so it's just and we've been trending that way for a while now it's just this year felt like uh a big jump in terms of the and not in a good way towards a lot of guys not participating but you know scouts teams pay attention to this stuff so um i i and not i'm not going to call anybody out but it's like you hear a lot of prospects you know it's funny you listen to these interviews and they stand up there at the podium and say, yeah, man, I'll die for my team out there.

6:40Dane Brugler: I'm a dog. I just, I want to compete. Then they don't, don't do anything. And it's like, all right, I get it. Your agent probably told you not to, you weren't getting the times you wanted. Wait till the pro day, blah, blah, blah. But like, come on, you're going to be a, you're going to tell me, stand up there and tell me you're a competitor and not compete kind of weak. But, um, there were, even with that context, I think there were a lot of athletes that went out there and did compete and help themselves because they

7:04Dave Helman: are really impressive so i gotta shout out my guy justice muscada who put this on my radar during the course of testing but he was outlining exactly what you're talking about like pre pre-covid you could count on like a 50 participation rate at the three cone across all positions i got the idea to go look specifically at defensive line players because that's what i care the most about in In 2017, Dane, 37 of 50 D linemen invited to the combine ran the three cone. That's like 75 % of prospects this week. 11 % of defensive linemen ran the three cones, seven, seven out of 64 prospects. And it goes down the line.

7:52Dave Helman: I mean, it's a little bit better, but in 2017, 94 % of cornerbacks ran the 40 yard dash in In 2026, it was about 63%. So you got some major discrepancies over the last decade, some major trends going toward doing things at pro day and not running all the drills at the cut line. If at all. Yeah, if at all.

8:14Dane Brugler: And I mean, look, this is how scouts think and teams think. If you're not doing it, you're hiding something. That's 100 % how teams think. And so you better be very confident in where you stand as a prospect or just be confident you're going to put in a good time at the pro day. Because if not, that's something that ultimately not going to say it's going to drop you in the draft. But if it's a conversation between you and another player, who knows? Maybe that could be a tiebreaker for a team. It's another data point that's missing that's pretty important to teams.

8:47Dave Helman: I did say prior to going to Indy that I was going to try not to hold it against guys for not working out. I was just going to be disappointed. But yeah, I was I was disappointed at the at the lack of drama, at the lack of data coming out of this. But all right. Having whined for a few minutes, let's talk about what actually happened at the combine. I took my notes in order of position groups that went. So like the D lineman went first and we moved on to the DBs and the receivers. So it's not in your traditional order. I just went by position that got on the field first. let's start with defensive linemen ironically we do have to talk about this the biggest news item that came out of the defensive line for my money is a guy that didn't do a whole lot that would be reuben bain but my goodness you could feel the shock waves going around indianapolis when his official arm measurement of 30 inches and seven eighths came out and i just i have no choice but to believe it's going to be a talking point for the rest of the draft process it's funny I said this to Mays.

9:52Dave Helman: Dane, you and I have been talking about his arm length since like October, but there is, I don't know. It feels a little more real when you get a number on it, though. And I'm curious. I know that you have been expecting this for quite some time, but when you have a number on it and people are able to be together in Indianapolis reacting to it, how big of a deal do you think this is for Reuben Bain's draft stock?

10:16Dane Brugler: Only because it was expected, I guess. I guess it wasn't I don't know it was kind of I didn't think it was that big of a deal to be honest with you just because you know like I reported back in I don't know November whenever it was that scouts had his arm length they measured him in the fall at 30 and three quarters and so it's like you know we told people on this podcast hey be ready it's going to be under 31 and so when it came in under 31 I guess I wasn't that surprised or it wasn't that um you know i mean i guess it was a good thing his arm actually grew what an inch or a eighth of an inch so i mean every little bit helps but it's just it's that's not his game he's going to be a short arm player um now again you know i wish he would have um done workouts uh that was disappointing we didn't get anything from him um but yeah i think the edge group as a whole we we talked we've been talking for a long time how deep it is a lot of guys did compete and a Um, I, are we going to talk about our ball Reese's part of this group?

11:16Dane Brugler: Or do we wait for a linebacker?

11:17Dave Helman: I would call him an edge. Yeah. Like I would, I would talk about him here. All right.

11:23Dane Brugler: Well then he was, if not the most impressive top three in terms of full workout, both the time drills, the athletic testing, but also the field workout, his field workout was bananas. It was unbelievable. the quickness and violence through the bag drills um the change of direction the movement skills he is he lived up to what i would expect from a player who's number one on my board and you know and i and i would tell you if it didn't because i i trust me all like all the guys in my top 10 i'm looking for a reason why you shouldn't be up there and i i want to see you match those high expectations.

12:06Dane Brugler: I thought Arvala Reese, he passed with flying colors. He was outstanding. Danny Dennis Sutton from Penn State, the way he tested was really impressive for a guy that's 256 pounds running six, nine, three cone was awesome. His jumps, his runs. So that was awesome to see Malachi Lawrence. He was tremendous with his explosion drills. So yeah, there were several edge rushers outside of the top guys that I thought helped themselves.

12:35Dave Helman: Danny, Denise Sutton, one of two edges to do the three cone this week in Indy. And yeah, maybe if you know, you've got a six, nine in your bag, maybe you're a little more willing to do it than some other guys. I'm glad you mentioned Lawrence because you're right. Like some guys help themselves and it's fair to point out the field workouts are not a thing you can quantify with a tape measure or a stopwatch as much as, as the, you know, the 40 and the vert and the broad and all that good stuff. Arvel Reese looked absolutely great, but I'm glad you mentioned Malachi Lawrence because very tangibly, this guy is listed at 6 '4", 253.

13:12Dave Helman: And Dane, Malachi Lawrence went out there and did a 4 '5", 2", a 40 in the vert, and a 10 '10 in the broad. And look, I get it. It's the Underwear Olympics. We're not going to overreact, but that comes on the heels of people you and I know and trust in the scouting industry who have been texting us and being like, oh, this guy's the real deal. Malachi Lawrence is a name that's got not getting enough love. Like we were hearing that well before the combine. So for him to show up already knowing that insiders are pretty high on his ability and to put on a circus act like that, I definitely thought he was one of the bigger winners of the entire week.

13:54Yeah.

13:54Dane Brugler: And he was already in my top 100, you know that came out right after senior bowl week and part of that was seeing him live at shrine and seeing him perform during the week of practices and you know he's not the most bendy guy and so you know like I don't expect his three cone or shuttles to be great but he is literally explosive and that's where you saw the jumps and the get off and the 40-yard dash and so you know just thinking about that Baylor tape and how explosive he was getting to the quarterback and all that translated really well to drills. So Lawrence is he's already in the top 100. And yeah, you're right.

14:33Dane Brugler: He only helped himself in terms of where he's going to end up on day two. Anybody else you want to hit among edges or can I move on to linebackers? I mean, I think we should mention David Bailey, because, again, a player that was already near the top performed pretty well. And so, you know, I think he just kind of checked the boxes. It wasn't like an amazing workout, but it was good for a player who's probably going to end up being a top seven pick. So that's it. That's a really good workout. Ran in the four fives. I mean, he was lightning in a bottle for what you would expect from a guy whose forte is get off and burst of the ball.

15:11Dave Helman: That's kind of how I felt about our guy, Caleb Banks, too. Like he worked out. We were looking forward to that. It was not a bad workout by any stretch, but it didn't get me excited to turn the card in the way I was kind of hoping for. Like maybe maybe I built it up too high in my mind for a guy coming off of a injury shortened season. I thought it was good. I didn't think it was like otherworldly or anything.

15:33Dane Brugler: Yeah. And the whole the cleat issue was that's not what you want to hear. Keldrick Falk was another one who I expected to be a little bit better, you know, for a guy that has these traits. You just kind of expected to see it more out there on the field. So I think he left me wanting a little bit more. I mean, let's just move inside a defensive tackle since you mentioned Banks. Like so Zane Durant, Penn State, I mentioned Dennis Sutton, Zane Durant. He was outstanding in terms of the athletic testing. I just wish that you could point me in the direction of where that shows on film. like I it just the lack of disruption on his film isn't that your favorite part of this is

16:20Dave Helman: you've watched you've watched plenty of a guy's tape and then this makes you feel like you need

16:25Dane Brugler: to go turn it back on immediately oh and I will because that's that the combine's one big cross checking exercise if something matches up okay great that's what the film said matches up with athletic testing perfect if it doesn't all right we need to go back and in either way if a guy tests really well but doesn't show on film okay we got to figure that out or vice versa and with Durant and he's a former running back in high school like I think we knew he was going to test pretty well um but this is a guy who had a grand total of four and a half tackles for loss last year four and a half like in in 12 starts so yeah he has this uh you know he looks really good in shorts he can move really well I just wish it translated to more football production and so So I think that while on paper Durant's testing, he should be quote unquote a riser.

17:16Dane Brugler: I and I'll go back and watch more more film just to make sure I'm I'm not wrong by saying this. I just don't think it's going to be as much of a boost for him when you look at the actual football impact.

17:31Dave Helman: Can we talk about a guy? Can we do linebacker just so we can just get this out of the way and talk about the guy that I am jumping out of the gym? him to turn the card in for the top five pick okay i'm glad you started there because i want to i want to make life easy on our wonderful producers uh and and the guys and gals who clip the uh clip the stuff out to put on social media dan in a year where we already know that the top 10 is a little bit lacking in and there's not as much of a sure thing at the premium positions in this draft talk me out of sunny styles as the second overall pick in this draft like talk talk talk me out of thinking that's not stupid like tell me why that's dumb no as soon as mendoza's off the board

18:20Dane Brugler: you're on sunny styles watch um i think he goes top five it's just a matter of is it one of the new york teams um you know could it be arizona arizona needs a lot of help in a lot of different places but they also need to get this right they need to whether if they feel like that's an edge rusher if they feel like it's jeremiah love they feel like it's a an offensive lineman whatever get it right and sunny styles has one of the highest floors in this draft there's no such thing as bus proof sunny styles might be the closest thing to bus proof in this draft when you talk about just checking every box it's the athletic testing it's the movement skills it's the way his career has gone in terms of trajectory getting better and better.

19:05Dane Brugler: And it's also the interview process. No, no other player just talking to scouts throughout throughout the week. No other player had more praise from scouts in terms of their interview than Sonny Stiles. I mean, we're talking standing up, giving a round of applause. We're talking just raving about this kid from scouts and how those interviews went. and so all the I'll put all that together and I think teams are going to look at this and say yeah he's an awful linebacker but this guy's different and we feel like he we're getting him on the up you know he's not it's not like he reached his ceiling yet so Sonny Styles did exactly what you uh would have hoped coming in and even then some so he was what my number five player in the draft coming in and now I have to really consider if I have him too low I couldn't

19:57Dave Helman: be more impressed for everything that you just said. I mean, the numbers are silly. The measurements are silly. You look at them and I think you can get in trouble trying to project too much, but with what we know about him as an off ball linebacker prospect and what you know from just watching his tape, combine that with his measurables and athleticism. And I'm just like, yeah, the right coaching staff could get production out of him as a linebacker, as a guy dropping in coverage as a pass rusher. Like there's, yeah, I have a hard time thinking he can't do like whatever he wants. And like I said, I know you can get in trouble projecting too much.

20:35Dave Helman: We've definitely seen guys like that fall short of the freakish expectations before, but I don't know, man, he's so impressive and you're right. Like I, obviously I'm not part of the team meetings, but the time he spent at the podium with the media was very, very impressive. I found out this week that he's nicknamed Sonny after the character from The Godfather, which is just amazing. That's in The Beast. Of course it is, Dane, but I haven't read The Beast yet.

21:03Dane Brugler: When we're done recording, I will send you the bio I have in The Beast for him. It is probably the longest bio in there. I have it in front of me. How about he had, coming out of high school, he had Division I basketball offers from Akron, Duquesne, Kent State, Toledo. um like there's yeah there's a lot of good stuff in there about how special this guy is if i had

21:27Dave Helman: to guess today i think arvel reese will be the second overall pick in the draft but i would agree i you could you could easily sway me that it should be sunny styles and if he's not the second pick then i think it'll be quickly after quickly after that um we talked about him before the combine shout out jacob rodriguez just bawling out i felt silly when i was watching his workout for questioning whether he could, you know, put up good numbers. Cause he, he blew my expectations away and he, you know, he did the 40 vertical broad. He did a three cone 6.9 in the three cone, which was a very impressive number.

22:04Dave Helman: It's outstanding. Yeah. Real quick, Dane, like a quick tangent. Can you like, for people that are listening to this, that maybe aren't knee deep in draft stuff, why is six, nine, a good three cone time? And what are people looking for

22:17Dane Brugler: when they do that yeah and obviously your expectations change in the position and the size of the player but um you know for people that don't know what the three cone is just think of it as an l with cones and you know you have to maneuver it's you can't be stiff and do the three cone uh with a good time and so it really helps expose that stiffness which is why we see a lot of guys not do it but for uh and that's why it's a good complement to the 40 a 40 shows obvious linear speed and not just you know get off but then also can you carry it and can you can you stretch it out uh or do you taper off uh but then a three cones looks a little bit different works a few different muscles and rodriguez we talked after the senior bowl like seeing him up close in person, just the athlete that he is gave me a new appreciation for him as a football player and as an athlete.

23:13Dane Brugler: And that's why in my top 100 after the senior bowl came out, I bumped them up into like the late second round would be just because I had a new appreciation for him as an athlete. And then coming here to the combine, even more so because of that workout and the way he moved. So, yeah, good, good for Jacob Rodriguez for he's crushing the process, senior bowl combine after what he did as a senior at Texas Tech. You can't do the last six months any better than Jacob Rodriguez has done. Throughout Jack Kelly, too, our BYU linebacker, had a really good workout. So, yeah, a couple of linebackers did well for themselves.

23:55Dave Helman: Kyle Lewis, I don't think, is under anybody's radar anymore either, Dane, if he ever was after a nice combine for him. All right. Going to talk some DBs. Let's take a quick break first, and we'll do that right after this.

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27:16Dave Helman: all right dane there's two categories of guys here when i was watching the combine you know your sunny styles your arvel reese your jacob rodriguez guys that we've talked a lot about who i had an opinion of for right or for wrong heading into the combine and then there's what i like to call the dane special where i see a guy that i don't know anything about and i'm like oh I got to get Dane to enlighten me. Back in the day, if you've been with us for a long time, we used to do a segment called Tell Me More. And I just, I'm going to, throughout this show, I'm going to throw a few names at you. I would love it, after watching cornerback workouts, if you could tell me more about Takario Davis out of the University of Washington, who ran a 4-4-1 despite being almost 6 '4 with some 34-inch arms dragging down at his ankles.

28:07Dave Helman: I guess with the amount of time I spent covering the Cowboys and their arm length perimeter parameters, I zeroed in on this guy immediately. And I was like, I need Dane to tell me more about Takario Davis. That's a tall drink of water right there.

28:21Dane Brugler: You saw those long strides in the 40, right? You know, he could really stride it out. He now as a prospect, it's a little more inconsistent because, you know, the mirror and matches and always sound. um you know he has he has a tough time with that sometimes um i the the length is great but the play strength is average um so that that's an issue but when you have a guy that's that size with that speed and so you can attach yourself to receivers and especially when you're working on the perimeter yeah that's something that's going to interest a lot of teams especially those teams that place a premium on length on the outside um you know whether that's yeah the commanders with dan quinn or you know you think you used to think about like the old seattle teams with what they wanted on the outside um but yeah davis is a good one um on the flip side a guy that doesn't have size so i thought an outstanding workout chandler rivers from duke he was terrific um avion terrell i don't he didn't run i don't believe but it wasn't that wasn't what got my attention it was the positional workout avion terrell was outstanding during drills um you You saw the ball skills.

29:31Dane Brugler: You saw the movement skills. Avion Terrell, he's 18th on my top 100. And if anything, it looked like I had him too low, not too high. He was terrific.

29:42Dave Helman: I was going to ask you about that. Do you think we, not you and me, but like we as a collective draft community, you know, we talk plenty about Delane and we talk plenty about Jermod McCoy. I'd say we even talk plenty about Colton Hood. are we not giving Terrell enough credit or credence for potentially being, I mean, you've got him at 18. So like a top 20 guy, but could he potentially go even higher than that? Like, are we not doing him justice by talking about him on that other level of cornerback prospect? Well, yeah.

30:16Dane Brugler: And I mean, shame on us if we're not talking about him enough. Cause that's, yeah, he, he, he's one of these guys that's once you, once you get past the first what like 10 picks maybe like anybody's free game at that point you know anyone in that 11 to 32 range is kind of in play at that point including Terrell who I've said before even though he didn't have a ton of interceptions he just has this honey badger aura to him with the way he competes the way he goes out there and makes plays even though it doesn't always result in an interception but the forced incompletions the forced fumbles the way that he will hawk down a guy from behind that's not even on his side of the field like he just that that's the way he competes and it shows up on every single tape so avion terrell i thought was a winner from the combine um my guy chris johnson um and if i had to if you if i had to make a list of five my guys chris johnson absolutely one of them um san diego state a guy we've been talking since about since September.

31:20Dane Brugler: Had one of the big questions was speed. Could he, you know, as long as he got under that four, four, eight, man, that was like the magic number. And he did well under that four, four, eight. Everything else is just, I don't know. I think he, I think he checks every box.

31:36Dave Helman: Chris Johnson's one of those guys where he, he did a four, four flat twice. And I was like, okay, Mr. Johnson, off you go. Nothing else we really need to see here. uh and then one more guy i wanted to mention obviously when you run the best time people are going to be talking about you toriano pride jr out of mizzou don't know don't know anything about him but if you can run a 432 i'm going to spend some time watching your tape that's just

32:01Dane Brugler: how it goes there are several teams kind of saying the same where oh i did not know you had that in you and so we knew we thought you were fast we didn't know you're that fast and so that's one of those guys that'll be fired up on the tape tomorrow from teams, just kind of making sure we, we, we dot those eyes, cross those T's, make sure we we've got them right with our write-up at safety.

32:25Dave Helman: I don't know who, who didn't have a nice week at safety. I was so impressed with one guy though. We got to start with one guy, which, which way do you want to go? Cause like Lorenzo styles ran the four to seven or is it somebody else? It's gotta be the enemy.

32:40Dane Brugler: I mean, yes.

32:44Dave Helman: he crushed it dude i mean i know he's been on everybody's radar as a potential first round pick for a while but he's one of those guys where all of a sudden it's like oh maybe maybe top 15

32:56Dane Brugler: like what are we talking about here it's funny because earlier in the week i i was on radio with our buddies at 105 through the fan and they asked the ideal scenario for the dallas cowboys at 12 and 20 and i said okay ideal like maybe not realistic but ideal okay all right let's go sunny styles at 12 and let's go dylan theenemann at 20 and that was before they worked out now

33:21Dave Helman: it's like all right throw that sonny's throw that plan in the trash i mean just theenemann

33:26Dane Brugler: hopefully theenemann's there at 12 for them if they wanted to go that direction but that that might be it because holy cow what a workout uh the testing was awesome obviously but the workout was phenomenal um and it was expected i mean he's right now in my top 100 he's 22 or something like that so you know it's not like again he's gonna get this huge bump because of what he did it just kind of reinforced that all right yeah came he came in as a kind of a mid first round pick he's gonna leave like that and there's fewer questions about him than maybe you had going in i came away

34:01Dave Helman: impressed with like half a dozen guys like Thienemann for sure. But the group, Bud Clark looked the way he was supposed to, uh, Emmanuel McNeil Warren made like his workout. Wasn't as freaky as maybe I was hoping for, but totally fine. I'm going to take the time to shout out my guy, AJ Halsey. I thought he looked just incredibly smooth in the on field stuff. And, uh, one more, I'll do another. Tell me more. Cause this guy was not on my radar at all, but uh Xavier Wampa out of Iowa seemed to have a really nice workout as well

34:33Dane Brugler: yeah he's another one I'll be going back to I mean I had a PFA on him um just based on tape like and he was a former five-star like he came to Iowa with a lot of pub um and I never thought he lived up to it on tape like as a player I just you you could watch Iowa's defense and never really notice him you know that that was kind of his issue um I just I want more of an impact but But, you know, I think that he's someone that there's clearly talent there. You just have to figure out, OK, maybe if we use him a little bit different way or, you know, it's just a matter of making sure we're not just crossing him off the list because he didn't make enough of an impact based on expectations.

35:14Dane Brugler: I also wanted to mention Trayden Stooks, Arizona. It was fantastic. I mean, he's he's a nickel who, you know, his secondary positions probably as a safety, but I like him best as a nickel. He ran, I think, four, three, three. He was outstanding. And the ball skills are fantastic. So Stooks, he was he was already in the top 100 somewhere in the 70s. But, you know, he's someone that's going to make you think about. All right, maybe we need to give him a little bump.

35:42Dave Helman: This doesn't even mention Caleb Downs, who was never going to be like a combine warrior. That's not him. But like I came out of this, I think I already knew it, especially when we did the senior bowl and you look at the senior bowl roster. and there were like 10 exciting safeties on there. And then you watch this weekend. What a year to need a safety. I feel like, yeah, I don't have a top 100 like you do, but I was just looking at it and I was like, man, there's like nine guys I would be pumped to draft on Thursday or Friday.

36:12Dane Brugler: I think I have 10 of them in my top 100. That sounds about right. Downs, the Inman, McNeil, Warren, Halsey, Keontae Scott, Zaki Wheatley, Bud Clark, Genesis Smith, Jalen Kilgore. I mean, yeah, the list goes on and on. And even day three, there's some guys that, you know, I think are useful players who could maybe even outplay where they're drafted. So it is a good year to need a safety.

36:34Dave Helman: All right. Having gushed about safeties, let's move over to the offensive side of the ball. We'll do that. We'll just take a break right now, and then we'll do all offense together right after this.

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38:41Dave Helman: Well, I think you can say a similar thing about this position as we did about Sonny Styles, Dane. uh, there's a guy we've talked a lot about. We knew he was really athletic. We knew he was going to go in the first round, but after watching Kenyon Sadiq do his thing at this combine and I know, look, athletic testing isn't everything, but if you liked the tape enough to have a first round grade on him coming into the week, and then you see Kenyon Sadiq post two, four, four forties, Actually, I think he got to four, three, nine, excuse me. And then jump out of the gym. I mean, I don't know. What, what do you think the realistic ceiling is for Kenyan Sadiq?

39:20Dave Helman: Cause it feels like he's at least got a shot to go top 10 with those sorts of numbers next to his, next to his tape. Oh, he's a shot.

39:28Dane Brugler: No question. I mean, it was always the, I don't know if Travis Kelsey retires, you know, drop him into that Casey offense or I mean, they were always talking about teams in that nine, 10, 11 12 range maybe um yeah and that number i think that 439 doesn't do it justice because i i immediately when that happened i texted um some um some scouts hey what'd you have what'd you have i heard back from four teams they all had under 435 all four of them i was like 432 433 433 444 434 i mean and yeah those are hand times but guess what that's what teams use um the biggest misnomer is the official combine time when in reality teams just use their own hand times and you know they do that

40:14Dave Helman: for a lot of reasons i was gonna say can you can you can you illustrate why the why that matters to teams why they do their own stuff when there's like laser timing at the combine the main one is

40:25Dane Brugler: so they can have consistency between combine and pro days and other workouts where it's the the same timer the same um setup and the way you're doing things the same operation so that helps limit you know uh any trial and error type of deal so that i mean that's the main reason but i i think that we can get caught up to a little too much in the quote-unquote official like that's a made for tv thing it really is um but it's kind of what everyone runs with as okay this is your official time well that's what you are for life that's what you'll be known as um also kenyan sadique i think he had the most bench press reps or second most among tight ends he had 26 so i mean the vert was 43 and a half 11 one broad the only reason that wasn't first is because eli stowers is a i don't i don't he's not human i know that but i don't know what he is um 45 and a half inch vertical for stowers i mean he yeah he came into the combine as my tight end too but holy cow like that is just ridiculous.

41:27Dave Helman: Sadiq and Stowers were just doing action figure shit all during the entire tight end workout. And yeah, if there was a question about the pecking order, I mean, not that there was any question about Sadiq, but I don't know, that seems to put Stowers pretty firmly on the radar.

41:44Dane Brugler: One other tight end I did want to mention, Sam Rauch from Stanford, 6 '6", 267 pounds. So 267 is very different than 241 or 239, which Sadiq and Stowers. So at that number, 47040 or a dash, 38 and a half inch vert, 708 three cone, 25 reps in the bench press. And I need to double check this, but I believe he's one of only two players talking every position, 319 players at the combine. one of only two that did every single drill bench press testing, positional stuff, everything. So credit to you, Sam Rauch for being one of those guys.

42:24Dave Helman: I'm shocked to hear that the Stanford guy was on top of his game like that. That's so surprising. No, I did. I had at least one other guy. Rauch was one of mine that I wanted to mention. You've talked about him before his workout numbers weren't anything mind boggling, but uh i thought jaron connects like on field stuff like the the drills and stuff i just i thought he looked very nice and he looked like what i thought he was and i was like yes okay

42:52Dane Brugler: i can i can do that he i mean with what he brings on special teams like that just kind of uh i don't know yeah kinnick's gonna be a day three pick at some point and be a long time special teamer and then whatever he gives you on offense is just going to be a bonus.

43:10Dave Helman: I think that's, that's going to be the question to answer here is like, you know, there's plenty of tight ends you feel good about at a discount. Do you like that as much as you like the idea of Kenyan Sadiq, if you need to use a top 15 pick on him? Cause that feels, that feels like the floor to me. I can't imagine him going too far past the 15th pick, maybe like 18, 18. That's the number I keep coming back to. Yeah. running back what a what a cool moment and I know it look we overrate these things all the time they don't necessarily make you a good football player but the moment that Mike Washington out of Arkansas had after he ran a 4-3-3 and and essentially just broke down in tears because look the 40-yard dash might not translate to football ability but you run that as a running back who already had good tape, who was already considered somebody worth drafting that that's life-changing.

44:09Dave Helman: Like that's, that's going to change Mike Washington's life, whether it means he gets drafted around higher or whatever, but it was a really, really cool to see him have that moment after running a blazing 40 time.

44:21Dane Brugler: I really enjoy talking to him at the senior bowl and then talking to him again in Indy, um, a really thoughtful guy, just talking about his journey. Um, you know, of buffalo new mexico state then the arkansas um you know he's got already has his degree working on his master's like his dad's a investigator mom got a phd like just comes from a really good family and um he's a really thoughtful guy but also a really big time competitor and we saw that with the way you go out there run a 433 um what he did this past year at arkansas what he did at the senior bowl and then what he did the combine it's kind of like all right yeah everything you did the last six months just keep going boost your your draft profile even more obviously we know who the first running back's going to be off the board but then second third fourth running backs drafted that's up in the air um i think price jadarian price will be number two but mike washington is you know he came in as my running back four for me he just made a really big argument for a running back three.

45:27Dane Brugler: And I wouldn't be surprised at all. And for some teams, he's even running back two. So yeah, credit to Mike Washington.

45:33Dave Helman: Pretty good bet. If that's how we're talking,

45:36Dane Brugler: that he's a Friday night draft pick, right? Absolutely has an opportunity because there's just not many running backs that are going to go on day two, but he's one of three or four that absolutely could.

45:48Dave Helman: Just a really cool moment for him. Really cool to see that. Really cool to see Jeremiah Love step out and look like Jeremiah Love, I don't really know what else to say about that.

45:59Dane Brugler: He's not going to, but like you mentioned with Sonny Styles, like how early we need to be talking about him. I mean, Arizona, Tennessee, three and four, they have to take a long look at their roster and say, yeah, we need help at tackle. Yeah, we need help here and there, but could adding an impact running back who helps us as a runner, as a receiver, and just does that, like our version of B. John Robinson or however you want to quantify it, how does that transform our offense? How does that impact the scoreboard for us? They, both those two teams need to take a long look at Jeremiah Love with that third and fourth pick in the draft.

46:39Dave Helman: Obviously that's going to lead to an interesting conversation because through no fault of his own, Ashton Jenty just had a pretty forgettable rookie year because the Raiders were not ready to drop a top six running back onto their roster. I can imagine Cardinals and Titans fans saying something similar. I don't know. I, I think both of those teams are probably better suited to put a, to, to draft a running back that highly. I understand it. If you have trepidation about doing so, but I don't think those are like apples to apples comparisons, or at least I don't think they will be by the time free agency is over.

47:16Dane Brugler: Then that that's the key because the Titans have plenty of money to spend. Well, let's see how they attack free agency and then we can revisit. it because the last thing I'll say about it, I don't want to hear about position value. I don't. I want to hear about impact value. To me, that's the more important way to frame the conversation, not the position, but the impact that that player makes. What is the value to us? And that's something that I think all those teams need to consider.

47:44Dave Helman: I'll bet you whatever. I feel very comfortable saying Jeremiah Love won't be there anymore when the Chiefs are done picking at nine. like he'll be a top nine pick in this draft. I don't want to pass the saints. I mean, yeah, no, I think the saints would be a very likely landing spot too. But if you're right there, nines, if for some reason the saints opt elsewhere, I think the chiefs are the floor for Jeremiah love. I just, I don't buy, he falls any further than that. Uh, anything else on running back? I didn't, it's, it's not a position other, unless you run a crazy 40, like Mike Washington did, I'm just, I'm not easily moved by what running backs do at the

48:22Dane Brugler: combine sue me yeah those are the two names i wrote down that i i wanted to talk about so yeah

48:28Dave Helman: let's talk about another silly season sort of thing actually dane we kind of nailed it uh because we were talking about carnell tate's 40 before the combine and i think we set the over under at like four five four and that's exactly what he ran or maybe they cut a hundredth off and gave him a four five three but he was right where we were talking about which unfortunately for him is a little on the slow side or is it? I mean, if we're talking about like a top 12 picket receiver, I guess it's a little on the slow side, but I'm going to guess you're not putting too much stock in this. No, because he's not a burner.

49:04Dane Brugler: I mean, that's just not who he is. Now, those long strides, they eat up grass and he makes plays down the field. I mean, some of the hand times were better, which I know Adam Schefter tweeted it. You know, like that's true about every player almost. So I'm not worried about it. But obviously you would have liked to see a better time, but I don't think it's something that's going to hurt him. Teams aren't going to, we're going to drop him around. I mean, it's better that he went out there and ran as opposed to Mekhi Lemon, who said he's the most competitive player in the draft and then didn't work out.

49:37Dane Brugler: And so it's like, okay, I mean, it's, you know, and Lemon's a guy that's a four or five athlete. So no, it's not going to hurt Tate. um and especially when we don't we didn't see lemon workout we didn't see um uh obviously tyson workout um denzel boston said he was going to do everything and then didn't run that was a little surprising casey conception didn't run so a lot of the guys we think are going to go in the first round didn't run and tate went out and did and he's going to get

50:08Dave Helman: points for that whether he should or shouldn't he's going to speaking of making bets i'll also bet you$5 he'll run again in Columbus and get like a four or five one. And I'm just not, I, you can't convince me to care about this.

50:22Dane Brugler: Ohio state's got a really fast track. So I bet you they'll mark it off at 38 and a half. Yeah.

50:29Dave Helman: Hey, he'll mark it off at 38 and a half and get us to four, four, nine. And we don't ever have to talk about this again. I don't care. Yeah.

50:35Dane Brugler: I think that'll happen for sure. But it was, there's a lot of receivers. I mean, I mentioned Casey Concepcion didn't run the 40 but I thought he looked awesome during the gauntlet like for a guy where that you had more drops than you want ideally for a first round player he was fantastic going through the gauntlet um Jeremy Bernard and how about his three cone I think best in the of this draft class 671 with at 206 pounds which you know he's not the in terms of pure speed not gonna blow anybody away but that change of direction was really impressive um I thought Zach branch was terrific. Cause we talked about his, you know, screen merchant and a guy that just lived underneath.

51:18Dane Brugler: So how would he do down the field? I thought he tracked the ball really well. I thought Zach branch had a tremendous workout. Um, Bryce Lance, um, Trey's little brother, what? Six, three, two Oh four went out there, ran a four, three, four in the 40, 41 and a half inch vert 11, one broad. Um, he did the agility too. He was, I think seven Oh seven flat in the three comb which is fantastic for anybody but especially a guy that his size so bryce lance uh he was already in the top 100 but he only helped himself um dejon stripling from from old miss uh a good size athlete and ran 436 at 207 pounds that was awesome um who else can i tell you can i tell you

52:00Dave Helman: one more i want to i want to see if if you thought the same thing i love just throwing my dumb opinions at you to see if I'm onto something. So I've known about this guy. We've talked about him and I don't know, probably because his teammate is one of the top receivers in the class. He's just sort of been out of sight, out of mind or like in the background for me. You know who blew me away? Jacoby lane. Yeah. He goes up at six, four, 200 and posts a four, four, seven with a 40 inch vert. And more so than that, I just thought in all of the, in all of the on-field drills, the gauntlet, the, you know, working on air with the quarterbacks, I just thought he looked so smooth and his footwork and body control were very, very impressive.

52:48Dave Helman: Like I said, I've, I've watched USC plenty over the last six months and I knew who he was, but watching him at the combine just gave me a completely different impression of what he might be. And it made me want to go watch three or four games.

53:03Dane Brugler: I struggle with him quite a bit because I agree. I was impressed with his workout. I also think some of a lot of the reasons why I'm not a huge fan don't show up in those type of drills. Like just very underwhelming play strength gets pushed around a lot. Very predictable route runner. He's very upright in his routes, gives corners a big target. You know, it's like a lot of the a lot of the reasons why I have my concerns with him translating. at least as a top 100 type draft pick didn't show up in these drills but credit to him for performing at a high level where he could and you know for a guy that's tall slender really flexible mover I thought he he helped himself no doubt I think the bigger thing even more so than that the interviews and I haven't gotten any feedback on the interview process but that's something that I know scouts more concerned with how his interviews would go than anything on the field put it that way so I'm eager to get some feedback on how those went this is why we come to

54:11Dave Helman: you Dan uh real quick I know we're probably going long on receiver we mentioned Dion Burks he dominated the combine that's not surprising at all right the guy that I want to just very quickly mention Jeff Caldwell out of Cincinnati basically had all the same numbers as Dion Burks, despite being seven inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. I mean, you run a four, three, one with like a 40 something inch vert at six, five to 16. I know it doesn't mean you're a good football player, but you're going to pop up on the radar doing that. Yeah.

54:47Dane Brugler: And he wasn't like, that wasn't expected that 40 like he looks like a 4-4 guy on tape um but for him to go out there and do that was really impressive especially for a guy that I don't think is a lock draft pick before he ran that time um because you know more of a more of a body catcher um you know he's the speed was more of like a build-up speed but man once he gets going if he gets if he has a strong start out of the gate he builds that up so quickly the acceleration is so impressive with those long strides yeah i mean he he well i think he was more of a borderline traffic going into the week i it's he's gonna get drafted now and that's so that's an example of where running that 40 and

55:28Dave Helman: testing like he did certainly going to help your case shameless self-serving plug xavier thomas one more guy who just had a ridiculous 40 yard dash former mississippi state great i yeah exactly thank you for that his his tape is like like he's not just a fast guy put it that way i think he's a pretty good football player yeah and i enjoyed talking to him he he's a

55:52Dane Brugler: very another very thoughtful guy talks just thinking about his answers and um all that kind of stuff telling me how he just remembered playing catch with his dad in the backyard at five years old and stuff like that so that was cool um i wanted to mention malachi fields who didn't run great he had a four six one in the 40 um but went out in the three cone and at 218 pounds when six nine eight only eight players in this draft in this draft class uh at the combine 319 players only eight ran a three cone under seven seconds and uh malachi fields is one of

56:27Dave Helman: them so credit to him for that no surprise we spend this much time on the receivers because there's a million of them every year and half of them are going to be good NFL players. I love that. I love this is a show for the nerds because we're just burying quarterback like at the very end of the show. But I think that's fair because if we're rewriting what we think of quarterbacks based on the combine, I don't think we're doing this the right way. There's not a lot to talk about. You know what? I was excited. It's not the right word, but I was I was happy with the quarterback workouts. I was very happy that drew aller was able to do stuff.

57:03Dave Helman: I thought, I thought Nussmeyer looked fine. I thought Ty Simpson showed off his arm strength and had some, I hesitate to even call them nice throws. Cause what are we even doing? But like Ty Simpson, I thought his arm just looked very live. Taylin green is an athletic freak. I don't know what that means for his draft stock, but just absolutely silly numbers. and then my last note was that Cole Payton is freaking jacked dude so I had a good time watching the quarterback workouts even if even if they don't mean that much at the end of the day

57:38Dane Brugler: you see those remember we talked about how before the season he was a tight end convert like you see why yeah I sure do yeah I think that now his workout was kind of like the senior bowl where the ball comes off his hand really well but the sprays are just all over the place and it's just he's so so raw that i i personally i couldn't draft him before the fourth round but that's just me i mean i think some other teams would probably be a little more optimistic um ty simpson was i think the clearly the the most impressive um of the quarterbacks throwing the football really clean mechanically the accuracy was good um i i think it was ty simpson and then everybody else and you know drew aller i thought yeah it was good just to see him out there uh big arm showed it off wasn't perfect but certainly good enough a couple of you mentioned taylor green with the 43640 the 43 and a half inch vert awesome haynes king uh six eight nine three cone fantastic four four six forty yard dash which is awesome um and then i i give carson back a hard time but man he didn't deserve to be booed like that was weak that was like i get it if it's like a michigan ohio state thing or like you know this deep-seated rivalry even if miami had beaten indiana i would

58:54Dave Helman: understand it but you won the game exactly who cares i don't know it was so weird like i don't

59:00Dane Brugler: beck beck didn't deserve that but to his credit i don't think it affected him that much i yeah that was like no i mean i completely get it if like your school's biggest rival

59:11Dave Helman: if their quarterback is working out but like i just don't understand the animosity for miami from Hoosier fans, but Hey, whatever. Um, yeah, I, I don't know. I came out of it. I was just like, yeah. I mean, if you're looking for star power outside of Fernando Mendoza, I don't know if this is the quarterback class for you, but there's like six guys that I could talk myself into drafting like later on in the draft, whether it's, you know, Nussmeyer and Ty Simpson on late like, like day two, or whether it's, you know, Drew Aller as a third or fourth round pick is very intriguing to me. I don't care who rolls their eyes about it.

59:49Dave Helman: Taylin Green as a flyer because of his athletic ability. Haynes King is somebody that I'd be happy to use a day three pick on because he's probably going to be more useful to my team over a longer period of time, even if he never starts like I can I can get excited about quite a few of these guys, even if that even if that doesn't mean they're going to be like longtime NFL starters. All right, let's wrap it up really quickly. This was happening on Sunday right before we recorded. So it's fitting if this is the one we have the least amount to say offensive line workouts. I think my number one impression from this Dane is Maxie and not sure continuing to just build on climbing into the top of this draft process.

1:00:30Dave Helman: I mean, he runs a four, nine, one 40, which at one point on Sunday was tied for the best throw that in with Monroe Freeling. I don't know if his on-field workout was quite as strong, but he certainly has the measurables at one point Sunday. I haven't updated this, but at one point Sunday, Monroe Freeling was top five in forties among the offensive linemen, top three in the vert top five in the broad. So plenty of athletic ability. I feel like those two guys are, we talked about this last week. I don't know if you want to say making a run because they've always been these guys, but I think a public perception is catching up to what the league might feel about them.

1:01:09Dave Helman: And I'm starting to adjust how high I think they might be drafted.

1:01:14Dane Brugler: Well, and the, yeah, the Freeling, he had a one, seven, one, 10 yard split to put that in perspective. The three tackles that were drafted in the top 10 last year were one, seven, five, one, seven, four, one, seven, eight. That's Will Campbell, Membu, Kelvin Banks. And And Freeling was better than all three of those at 171. Athleticism is definitely not the issue there. It's just more inexperience. And but if you're looking for that true left tackle skill set, Monroe Freeling is the best in this draft. Spencer Fano was outstanding. Like his workout today was well above average. The only, you know, red flag is that the arm length.

1:02:00Dane Brugler: It came in at 32 and an eighth, which is shorter than I expected. Just going through the fall, talking to scouts and they all expected at least 32 and a half, hopefully 33 on a good day. And it was below that. And that's that's tough. But the couple of things that help him, the wing is not as you know, the arm length is alarmingly low for a tackle. The wing still not great, but it's over 80 inches and that's three inches longer than And Will Campbell's wingspan was so a little bit of a saving grace there. But then also what Spencer Fano did on the field, it was, if not the best workout of Sunday, top two, top three, not just the 40, which was great.

1:02:44Dane Brugler: Four, nine, one. The vert was awesome. He had a seven, three, four, three cone, which is phenomenal. But then the on field stuff was even better than that. They had him taking snaps, which is, I think, understandable. teams want to see him do it just to see what it looks like um i teams are going to be all over the place with fauna is he a tackle is he a guard is he a center all i know is i want him on my team this is a first round player it's just a matter of feeling confident about where you're going to

1:03:10Dave Helman: play him stealing these from our buddy trevor sykema who does wonderful work for pff they're they're great stats but spencer fauna he measured in the third percentile among tackles for arm length and the 19th percentile among tackles for wingspan. Francis Maui Noah, another highly regarded offensive tackle coming out of college, 18th percentile among tackles for arm length, 26th percentile wingspan among tackles. So, I mean, we've been talking about this all year, particularly as it pertains to Maui Noah, you got to get your arms around that. You got to decide if you're comfortable with it. I'm curious how will Campbell affects these guys because, And the irony is, Will Campbell was perfectly good for the vast majority of his rookie season, but those flaws were laid bare in a big way in the postseason.

1:04:04Dave Helman: And so our team's going to be willing to turn around and use a big time pick on a smaller offensive tackle. Or if they're viewed as a guard, how does that affect their stock? I think that's going to be very fun to see play out.

1:04:17Dane Brugler: A couple other numbers from these offensive line group. um Caden Proctor 32 and a half inch vert which I don't know but that might be the best vertical ever for a guy over 350 pounds um just an unreal no and it was kind of expected but still when you see it it's amazing that lower body power that he has is unbelievable um I think Emmanuel Pregnon having a 35 inch vert was big um Brandon Thorne just texted me and said Parker Brailsford 910 broad might be the bad tc think that might be a record uh among centers which is obviously saying something um keelan rutledge had a really good workout he was uh he had the best short shot of any offensive lineman um at 454 which is great to see um and then a couple other guys that really jumped out to me watching the uh uh positional workout sam hash the center uh chase pesantis This was awesome.

1:05:17Dane Brugler: Logan Jones for Iowa center who, you know, we didn't see at the combat or at the senior bowl, but had a good week here at the combine. Lomu was very good. The other Utah tackle. And then Venga Penn state, who is one of the best players, just full stop in this draft. So I think everyone we expected to be good. I think we're put was pretty good. A lot of these centers, like this is not like an amazing center class. I don't, they're not, there might not be a center drafted top 75 this year, But between 76 and 125, 130, we might see six or seven centers drafted. So it's one of those center positions that we don't, there are center classes where it's not a, there isn't a first round guy, might not even be a second round guy.

1:06:02Dane Brugler: But the depth of position is really intriguing with those guys in that late day two, early day three range.

1:06:09Dave Helman: And that doesn't even include Spencer Fano working out at center on Sunday afternoon. So I don't know. Maybe you have to update those rankings. Really happy for some teams. Sure. It might be really happy. You mentioned my guy, Byzantus, Demetrius crown over to I'm, I'm weirdly invested in the A &M offensive line. I think they can play. Yeah.

1:06:29Dane Brugler: Yeah. Trey Zune also had a good week. Yeah. It's a, this is a, this is a good offensive tackle class. I think, or offensive line class period. Even if we're missing the, the Joe at the top, I think it's still a really good group.

1:06:43Dave Helman: I think that's what I want to, what I want to impart to people over the next two months is like, yes, the top 15 is not the sexiest draft you're ever going to watch. But from there on out, I'm really excited about a lot of the players here. Like I think, I think Friday of this draft is going to be a hell of a lot of fun. No doubt. But until then we got, we got so much more to do. That does it for this week. We've got a lot of free agency content coming your way as the week goes along. Obviously with the league year starting free agency is going to dominate the next little bit, but Dana Dana and I will be back next week.

1:07:20Dave Helman: We got plenty to talk about pro days. We'll be getting underway. We can revisit some guys that work out later and we got a few more tricks up our sleeve until then. We appreciate y 'all so much. We will talk to you soon.

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