Texans defense rolls over Steelers, leads team to Divisional Round

0:28Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. outside of just three mind-boggling decisions from their quarterback. Today, it's me, Derek Lassen, Dave Hellman, bringing down all things Texans-Steelers. Follow that up with just a discussion about the Steelers' future. What happens with Mike Tomlin is now the moment that the Steelers could potentially move on and hit reset. Seems like it might be. Really enjoyed this conversation. Hope you guys do as well.

0:58I'm pretty sure that's the most fun I could have watching a football game that was 7-6 in the fourth quarter I was cackling watching what the Texans did on defense tonight If it's going to be that close and that gross it better be because one defense is thoroughly kicking the shit out of the other team One benefit of us watching games together is I think a lot of time you might think it's hyperbole or conjecture to say you were cackling at something. No, Robert was laughing really hard throughout the late third, early, you know, mid fourth quarter of this game. And why wouldn't you after a performance like that?

1:35Truly one of the most significant and thorough ass kickings I have ever seen from one defense on one side of the ball in an NFL game since I started paying attention to the sport. You want me to paint it by the numbers here, by playoff games? I looked at just the past decade on True Media. On a yards per play basis, 3.1 yards per play, it's the second best in a playoff game in a decade. It is the fourth best by success rate at about 72.4%. And on an EPA per play basis, they got to 0.51. It's the best in a game in a decade in the playoffs. This was like truly an all-time playoff performance. Even beyond the playoffs.

2:11I was looking it up in the fourth quarter because I'm like, this has to be one of the worst performances by a passing game that we've seen the entire season. Per next-gen stats, Rodgers, when I looked this up, there was 239 left. I'm pretty sure he was out after that. 19.4 % passing success rate for Rodgers at that point. That was the third lowest mark of the season by a quarterback with at least 25 dropbacks. The only two that were worse were Justin Fields and Cam Ward against the Broncos. That's it. This is a playoff football game. And that is what the Houston Texans defense did to Aaron Rodgers and this offense.

2:45They snuffed them out. It was incredible to watch. By the end of this game, and we just watched the Chargers' offensive performance against the Patriots on Sunday night and how woeful that was, and they also did not score a touchdown. The Steelers' EPA per play was twice as bad as the Chargers from last year. As the Chargers from last night. The Chargers finished with an an EPA per play of minus 0.32. You're right. The Texans did snuff the Chargers out last year. So it is confusing which game I'm talking about. That's the second worst game by EPA per play in a decade, by the way. They doubled up the Chargers' woeful performance from last night.

3:24And I would bet it's similar to whatever they did to poor Justin Herbert last year. Yeah. The fact that the Texans' offense, which I would weirdly leave this game very encouraged, by the way, that the Texans played on offense because they were doing things that we had just never seen them do the entire year. Brother, are you kidding? The Texans rushing success rate was 48 % in this game. It was one of their five best rushing performances of the year and the second best rushing performance of any team in the playoffs by success rate. And we can get into everything CJ Stroud did that was dumb and bad, but to just see the Texans move the ball on the ground like that, I would be so geeked if I was a Houston fan.

4:05I'm like, we have a reasonable chance of getting to 17, which means we have a reasonable chance of beating anybody in the league. If the quarterback did not lose his mind multiple three different times in this game, how would we be feeling about the Texans right now? We'd be like, oh, that team's going to the table. They would feel as dangerous as you could possibly imagine. Which is so great because you could say if CJ Stroud doesn't lose his mind three times, they demolish the Steelers and they demolish them anyway. The score maybe is 30 or 44 to 6 instead of 30. I made this joke in real time when CJ Stroud hit Christian Kirk for that huge gain that puts them in field goal range when they were up 7 to 6.

4:47I literally said in that moment, it was a 3rd and 15. It was a great throw. And that play helps swing the game. So it's 7 to 6 at that point. It's a huge crosser from Christian Kirk from the slot. Christian Kirk had an incredible game today. Kyle Dargers with the free safety. they Kirk outruns Brandon Echols it's a beautiful ball by Stroud at that point I think they were in range like a 55 yard field goal and I jokingly said they should maybe just kick the field goal on first down to go up 10 to 6 because at that point would you have any faith in the Steelers ability well then they lost yard or touchdown when they came out on a penalty hold immediately on the next play so they eventually do get four yards they kick the field goal to go up 10 to 6 but that's how it felt the entire game but the moment that encapsulates this entire thing It's not just the fact that the Texans scored a touchdown on that Sheldon Rankins play.

5:36It's the way that it happened. When you watch that play unfold, Will Anderson wins around the corner almost immediately. He gets this initial contact on Rodgers. Rankins does a little stutter bull rush, puts his hand right in Isaac Salamone's chest, bowls him over. The ball just ends up right in his hands, and he essentially walks in for a touchdown. That is among the most f*** you defensive touchdowns I think I've ever seen in an NFL game. And when you watch that happen in that moment, I think you really start to fully, it starts to fully crystallize what we're watching in this game. My favorite part about that was it came two plays after the Steelers converted their only, they picked up one of their biggest chunk gains.

6:21It was a 14-yard gain. Yeah, 14-yard gain. And I just imagine the Texans defenders cracking their necks like, okay, you're going to have an explosive on us? Okay, let's see how this goes. That was my favorite part of this game is that we joked about it in real time. I think that there are some defenses that would get a little bit demoralized with all the turnovers in the short fields. The Texans seem to take it personally. It just made them meaner every single time they were put into a bad position or the Steelers would have like one 10 or 12-yard game. They've taken the idea of like you have to hate every offense to like include their own if they if they needed to.

6:56However, you got to get there. And today they needed it, too. I think to my favorite play about. So obviously Hunter gets a strip sack. They bring it back for a touchdown. The very next play, Rogers does a patented like performative deep ball. He tries to throw a seam ball down down the middle to I think it was Pat Friermuth. Incredible coverage by Aziz Alshire running with him on the pole play. And then on the very next play, Rogers tries to throw a check down and Aziz Alshire nukes him. And that to me was like the fact that you get the sack, the strip sack, bring it back for a touchdown. And then on the next two plays, your middle linebacker makes two very different, incredible plays in coverage.

7:30I'm like, this defense, dude, is just there's something. Another fun example of the Texans just taking things personally. There was another one. The Steelers faced, I think, 11 third and 10, no, eight third and 10 pluses in this game. They were in third and long. And I love next gen, but they define third and long by third and seven plus. And I wish I could see third and 10 plus because the Steelers were living in third and double digits in this game. And one thing that stood out to me midway through the third quarter, again, you're talking about him taking things personally. They picked one of those up.

8:04It was their one of their only third down conversions of the night. He hits it. Rogers. Yes. Right. It's MVS for 14 yards. Next play is a Petrie stuff for negative two yards. And then the next play is when Daniil Hunter spun Troy Fautonu and was just in Rogers' lap and chasing him out of the pocket. And then the next play, he tries a deep ball against Kamari Lasseter and he just tips it away like nothing. And the only reason it even had a shot is because people were booing for a DPI flag. Like I said, every good Steelers moment, it just felt like you could feel the Texans being annoyed that they got anything right against them at all.

8:43I meant to bring up the third down thing when we were talking about that strip sack, because before that play happened, the Steelers were one of nine. Their average distance to go was 11.3 yards on third down. I looked up while you were talking. They faced nine instances, the Steelers did, of third and 10 plus in this game. There we go. You can't live like that against anybody. You especially cannot live that way against Will Anderson Jr. and Daniel Hunter. I think their shortest third down of the night was probably third and seven. Like, I don't think they got into a third and what you would call third and manageable all night long.

9:17Or if they did, it was maybe on those first two drives where they were okay. A very, very low number. Yeah, they had zero third and shorts. They had two third and mediums. Okay, good for them. They were one of 12 on third and long. Which I'm assuming is what, like four to six yards? Yeah, four to six. To even only get into those, let alone whatever you're converting, is crazy. My favorite thing, too, is, Dave, you said at the top, just cackling at the way this defense plays. The thing is, it's not just one guy. It is. Obviously, Will Anderson Jr. has the strip sack and had a couple of other good moments.

9:47The play where Hunter does the inside spin move on Troy Fauton, who is just like, oh my God. And then the other play where he knifes inside on the play action. That's insane by Daniil Hunter. I was just laughing as that play unfolded. It's like watching how fast he got into the backfield and how terrified Rodgers was. To cut across an offensive lineman's face so fast that you don't even really get touched is pretty rare stuff. That was insane. And then one of my favorite sequences the whole game is after the interception, which is just a disgusting interception. Just a disgusting interception by CJ Stroud.

10:19Jalen Petrie, like two times in three plays, is just like, I'm just going to let you guys know right now none of this matters. None of this is going to matter on your side of it. So let's take a step back, and this is all worth celebrating, but I want to reframe just what this makes us feel about the Texans for these playoffs specifically. We've said this a bunch of different times in this season specifically because it is a weird collection of playoff teams where you have some of these really dominant defenses. And typically, if you look back at history, the last 10, 15 years, you need to be a historically great defense in order for your defense to propel you all the way to a championship.

10:59We're at a point now where it's like them and the Seahawks, honestly, because of what this field looks like. and if the life that the Texans offense showed, despite CJ Stroud trying to throw the game away like three different times, are we at a place where we think this Texans team with the defense playing this way can actually get them over the hump and do that? Win the Super Bowl? Yeah. That's tough. I mean, you're still talking about three wins. Honestly, man, I don't want to... I see you smiling. But think about who they would play in all of these. I didn't say no. I didn't say no. I wouldn't pick them.

11:33So I'm not picking them as my pick right now, But like if because obviously I think the AFC bracket, we've probably spent a lot of air talking about how they would beat a lot of these teams. And they've played a couple of these teams. And then you think about who's probably going to come out of the NFC. I would assume it's to me probably going to be one of the NFC West teams. Wrong. But that's fine. Even if it's the Bears, do you try like Caleb against against this? I think no matter who they play, like they got a shot to just like nuke anybody. I mean, that this is it's not even worth talking about right now.

12:02But like Caleb is uniquely suited to deal with those guys. He probably is. I just made Robert nervous. We're not discussing this. I just think that you look at, I mean, the Patriots played really well yesterday. Drake May has been so good this season. I cannot wait to see Drake May against this defense, but I absolutely think the Texans can beat the Patriots. Here's where I come down on this. I think in a one-off, I think the Texans could beat every single team left in the field. Yes. But over the course of three weeks and getting a good enough performance from the offense three times in a row and not having C.J.

12:38Stroud lose his mind and get strip sacked twice and throw a red zone interception while also getting the best possible version of the defense three times in a row, I wouldn't bet on it, but get into those games and anything is possible. Like, there is no team left in the field on either side of the bracket where I'm just like, ah, they'd probably have Houston's number. I don't think that team exists. Is it weird to say after the Chargers game, I'm definitely, I'm like way more scared of whatever the Texans offense is capable of versus New England's defense than I would be of like, can the Texans defense stop potential MVP Drake May?

13:10I actually think they have a decent shot at doing that. I'm not sure they'll put up 20 against that New England defense. I honestly, and I don't want to overstate this because the Chargers offense is obviously in such a weird place with the pass protection. the unit that I watched this weekend that kind of made me sit up in my chair and rethink about what that team is capable of in these playoffs was the Patriots defense. Yeah. The way that they played yesterday. Watching just how muddy they made things on the back end and what they looked like. I know Mill Williams is back for a couple weeks, but with Milton Williams, with Spillane, and just the fact that they have those corners on the outside and just how murky they were making the entire game.

13:47You combine that with what the quarterback is capable of And it's like, shit, man. All right. Like that's I'm interested in that. Even if you account for the fact that Justin Herbert didn't play well, the Patriots defense acquitted itself so well. And there were so many questions about how good are they actually and who have they actually played and what can they do? And it's I mean, they'll have another opportunity, but they I think they should. They opened my eyes and I think they should have opened eyes to anybody that was watching them play that game. So the line is out. According to Ben MGM, the Patriots are three-point favorites.

14:21I've seen it at two and a half somewhere else. So they're at home. That's basically just home field advantage. And that's what we're looking at here with the Texans moving forward. I think just the overall formula the Texans were able to follow on offense in sustaining some of these drives. I mean, that drive, their touchdown drive, we were just marveling at it in real time. Like the only touchdown drive the offense had, which is hilarious. But you watch that happen. They had five successful runs in a row, 9-6-27. And then you're mixing that up with, again, on early downs, when they were able to run the ball efficiently and staying out of third downs.

14:57They were incredible on third down tonight. But if you watch the early down plan, this offense, I think, is at its best when if you can run the ball and then you can hit some of those in-breakers off play action, that's what C.J. Stroud does really well. And that's what they were able to do in this game. And you look at the run game plan, and I'll be curious to go back and actually watch it in detail, But it really seemed to me like we're just getting a ton of variations of like downhill runs out of jumbo personnel. I showed you guys after the play happened. It was on that drive. There was a play where Cade Stover was lined up between the tackle and Blake Fisher, the extra offensive lineman, right between them, right behind them in a three point stance.

15:35Like there was ready to go. There was there were there was nothing like sneaky going on with how the Texans were trying to run the ball in this game. They did a good job with some motions to kind of displace people. And I'm not trying to minimize that, but it really was like a downhill run at you plan. And it was consistently working. They were moving those guys off the ball. And I just I wasn't ready for it. It was kind of bewildering to watch in real time. Well, even when they do the jumbo stuff, it hasn't always worked that well. It's been terrible. It's been bad. So like to like it's easy to say, oh, we'll get get another tight end out there and get Blake Fisher out there and you'll be good to go.

16:10That hasn't really been the case. So to be as successful as they were, that was that was so cool. Like where you don't see that in the NFL very often where they're just like, all right, again, again, again, like five times in a row all the way down. Kaylee called an awesome game, too. Yes, I was very impressed with the way they the his feel for what they were trying to do in all these moments. I thought he was really good tonight. And I also think to what I was thinking about a little bit like compared to I think Liam Cohen may be going away from it a little bit in their game. for as good as the Jags run game was in that game it was a lot of trick-em-dick-em it was a lot of like we got to move guys we got to get on the perimeter we're pulling we're doing all this weird stuff that can be hard to like chain into your other plays this was pretty much all just like duo a little bit of like weak zone every now and then which is like downhill stuff like you said that you can tie to your play action so I think he was comfortable just like we're just gonna pound it and then once or twice a drive we'll see if we can hit the glance right over the middle I also think there's a little bit of you can go two ways with this you could either He'd be really scared by the way that he played, or you could take it the other way where we saw the worst game CJ Stroud is going to play in the playoffs.

17:15I think almost certainly. Not only that, but I would argue you can't wave off the amount of just head-scratching stuff that happened here, the interception in particular. But I thought CJ Stroud threw some laser beams in this game too, like particularly over the middle of the field. I'm looking at it right now. He was 10 of 13 for 101 in between the seams, like in between the numbers and like him and Nico Collins, which that's something to watch. Nico Collins, that's this game. That's yeah, that's massive. That's that's tough. If, if you don't have him for this next game, but he, he threw some, some piss missiles over the middle of the field in against really good coverage.

17:56I did one Steelers thing. I wanted to make sure I said, and you and I were going back and forth about it all night. Joey Porter jr. Kicks ass. Yeah. He, he's such a good fun player, but they got, they got the better of him a couple of times. linking up with Nico Collins over the course of the game. It's really frustrating how good C.J. Stroud can look and then just a couple times a game, something wild is going to happen. The ball placement, for the most part, was pretty good throughout the game. He missed Nico on that crosser right before the half, but even on that play, he's moving while he's throwing that.

18:27So his pocket movement and really any time he had to get moved off his spot in this game, the feel and just how those plays unfolded consistently. He was sprinting. It was bizarre. It was a very weird performance from him. And again, I hope that this is an outlier where you just kind of say, well, we were able to overcome this. Hopefully he plays better moving forward. But just a strange, strange game from CJ Stroud. And really, at no point over the course of the game did it feel like it was going to matter at no point. It's so funny that you say that because football teaches you that you will pay for that stuff.

19:02Like if you watch enough of these games and it's seven, six going into the fourth. And most of the time you're just like, come on, guys. Like this is this is how you get beat, especially in the playoffs. Like a missed throw here, a bad decision there, a turnover. And like even with all the dumb CJ stuff, I never I never got there. I never felt like it was really in danger, even when it was a one point game. Before we move on, let's take one quick break.

19:33So now I think we have to turn our attention to what happens next for the Pittsburgh Steelers, because this turns into a fascinating offseason. What happens at quarterback and what happens at head coach, I think, are obviously the two biggest questions. And I think they're two questions worth asking. It seems like Rodgers is probably going to be done, right? And so he's kind of alluded to that multiple times over the course of the year. So if he is, who's going to play quarterback for the Steelers becomes a huge question. And there's really no easy answer to it. I want to start with the Tomlin thing, though.

20:09Does it not feel like this might be the right time for everyone to start over? Does it not feel that way? Because there's been so much other shuffling. You have so many options in the deck now. I just look at the overall makeup of the roster as well and where they're at right now. the Steelers have seven picks in the first four rounds. They have multiple comp picks. They have a pick they got in the pick-ins trade. They have five top 100 picks. Really, the only kind of vestiges of the previous version of this roster are Cam Hayward and TJ Watt. It's really it. Everything else, you have a very young roster.

20:45You have a team that's kind of like starting over in a lot of ways with who your most important players are going to be. And Watt and Hayward are under contract for next year. I understand that. But it really does feel like if the Steelers wanted this to be the end point for whatever this whole thing was, it wouldn't be crazy that this would be it. I actually think it's kind of a natural end for it all. And I think he's signing up for it's not a rebuild, obviously, like they were a playoff team. But I think he's signing up for a transition as the Steelers head coach. And I can understand wanting Mike Tomlin for something like that.

21:20I think he's well suited for something like that. but it kind of does feel like there is a chapter closing for this team in this moment and I wonder how both parties are going to look at that moment and how to handle it I think that's a good point because it would probably take you two years to get back to being like like an actual like you could go to the championship caliber team to like build it and you need to hit on a lot of things for that to be even be the case so like I the Tomlin thing is always so tough because I think I would understand if they fire him I also do think like he would get every single call from every single team as soon as he's gone.

21:52I'm with Mays. I can't imagine the Steelers firing Tomlin. I don't think they'd fire him. I think that would be a mutual part of it. Hey, we all had a good time. We love you. Let's both agree to do our own thing. Which I almost too get from Tomlin's perspective because it's like, if he doesn't think the Steelers can get a quarterback, why not maybe try to get to a spot that maybe you, for whatever reason, either feel like they have one? Like Tennessee, you look at Cam Ward and you're like, that's better than anything we're going to be able to get to Pittsburgh. I think that's a phenomenal point.

22:22And, you know, there's precedent for this. Sean Payton kind of did this, right? I mean, he called it a retirement at the time, but he was out of the game for a year. And the Saints were in a very similar position. You had gotten to the end of the Breeze era. There was really no clear path forward. It was an aging roster. And I think that you can make a really serious argument that both parties would mutually benefit from having this be the final kind of closing chapter of what this is. This is run out of road. How many years in a row are we going to watch them get their asses kicked in the playoffs and think, well, if we do this and we kind of tweak this and we make these small changes, maybe that's going to be enough.

23:02It's not. it's not gonna be this isn't revelatory because we know who the Steelers have been but I just think it's it's wild to see it laid out they picked top 10 in 2019 and since and now we they're traded up to do that didn't they they drive they're oh my god you're right they traded up to take back Devin Bush in that draft they were an 8-8 team these are their these are their draft positionings good shout by you remembering that they traded up for him but even still they're locked into the 21 21st pick heading into the spring their last whatever six seven picks 21 21 20 14 20 24 18 like that's just the world that the Steelers are living in and to your point like what's your path to a quarterback when I mean it it's all and this is I'm sure this is a debate in Pittsburgh every single year of like it's very cool that you keep having a winning record but when this is what you look like in the playoffs and you play your way out of range to answer long-term questions like who's going to be your quarterback?

24:01That was frustrating three years ago, and now it's 2026. The goal is not to have a winning record every year. I mean, yes and no. The goal is to get to the playoffs, but not if it's six years of this. The goal is not to be a 9-8, 10-7 team with no chance of winning a championship every single year. That's not the goal. The goal is to win the Super Bowl. and are the Steelers closer to a Super Bowl now than they were two or three years ago? No, because they're not closer to a quarterback. They're not closer to a plan that would get you to a Super Bowl path than they have been over the last few years.

24:36You know what's frustrating about this is like the prevailing logic would be, and not every year, obviously. The goal is to compete in a window and build a team that can really be dominant and really be a contender. But the prevailing logic is get in the dance and you've got a shot. Look at what the five seed Houston Texans look like right now. But like, no matter how they've done it, like in 2020, they were the wonky 12 and four team. They've they've had they've gotten 10 wins three years in a row. At no point have they ever looked like a team that could be dangerous in the dance. No, the way that that's that the 49ers made have made so many runs as a wild card, as a team that didn't win their own division.

25:14The Steelers, no matter how they get in, they haven't looked like that caliber of team since 2017. And at that point, if you're never going to be that caliber of team by the end of the season, I think you have to revisit what your plan is to become that caliber of team. Let's just say they run it back with Tom, which I wouldn't be surprised if they did, because I get wanting that level of stability, even if in this moment I think it's the wrong decision. What is the path to a quarterback? Because at some point, you have to have a multi-year option that you feel good about. And in this offseason, if you're picking where the Steelers are picking, what's going to be?

25:4920th? It's 21. Okay. In this draft, so maybe you take a swing on like a Ty Simpson. You're praying Ty Simpson falls to 21. So you just did that, right? Yeah. It's Kenny Fickett all over again. Yeah, taking the old guy who's a little bit smaller, doesn't have the biggest arm. You just did that. And you need to keep taking those dice rolls, but how effective is that one going to be? So if you don't do that, your multi-year solutions to quarterback this offseason are signing Malik Willis, trading for Tanner McKee. Like, that's what you're doing here. I don't think anybody's excited about that. So if you don't want to make that sort of multi-year commitment in this offseason, then you're kicking the can down the road again.

26:29And what are you doing? You're trading for Geno Smith. And you're having one more year where you got a 30-something quarterback that's probably near the end. There's no clear path out of this unless there is some sort of hard or medium pivot. And I just think that now might be the time to do that. I would and I don't say this because like I say this out of admiration for Mike Tomlin. I I think he's a really good coach. I think his he's a his culture is impeccable. I think it's cool that he keeps having a winning record, even if it starts to feel hollow after a while. I think the like the ability to string together that amount of wins week over week, year over year, no matter who you don't have, no matter what.

27:14I think it is really impressive. And I admire Mike Tomlin. I would like to see this end so that we can stop stringing this along. He could go have a shot to do to add another team if that's what he wants to do, or he could spend a year in a studio talking ball with Gronk like Sean Payton looked like he had a hell of a time doing that a few years ago. So and then the Steelers can pivot to something new without risking like dragging Tomlin's image down because they're not as good of a team, which I think eventually happens if it hasn't already happened already. With Mike Tomlin as their coach, the Steelers have a stated goal every single year of trying to be a 9 or 10 win team that makes the playoffs.

27:58If Mike Tomlin is not their coach next year, I don't think you have to operate with that stated goal. And I actually think the franchise benefits by not being in that mindset or place. Even if nobody wants to admit they care about the streak, just just ending that this era, I think, would just be easier for everybody. And like if it's a new coach who's cutting his teeth with a younger roster and I mean, yeah, Hayward and Watt might still be there, but it's a lot of younger players. I think that's a lot more palatable than everybody saying, oh, once mighty Mike Tomlin is coaching a two and seven roster right now.

28:33Like nobody wants to see that. I don't think anybody wants to see that. And I also think it changes what you would do with things like quarterback, right? Like you need a little bit less certainty and maybe a lower floor, but something that's a little bit higher variance. If Mike Tomlin is not the coach, maybe you're willing to take a chance. You wouldn't have been previously. Even if Mike Tomlin is not there, you still have a weird pathway to whatever your quarterback is. That would be the argument against like not for it's like you have the weird spot to a quarterback no matter what. But now you don't feel.

28:58Exactly. It matters so much less if you just change the mindset for what you're trying to accomplish next year and you understand, we're in a spot where this is a multi-year reset as we get younger and we just have to evaluate again what the pathway and the timeline looks like. And let me ask you this. And it's so weird because it's just, it's hard to imagine the Steelers functioning this way. Like they've had a winning record for almost 20 years and they famously have only had three coaches. And like we talk so much about the Roonies and the way they do things and it seems completely opposite of their DNA.

29:35But like, would you trade a lot to jumpstart that process? Yes. I mean, I think you should, but would they? Cause like, that's something you can imagine like everybody else doing, but it doesn't feel like the Pittsburgh Steelers. And do they have? Actually, I think that might be a concern. That's my only, that's the only other thing I'd say just in terms of like the, how pragmatic and possible that might be. I think that's right. Like if you do one, do it all. Just like, like commit to tearing it down. Like don't just fire Tomlin and then like hired because a John Harbaugh or whatever to just like, oh, we're going to keep it going with a different guy.

30:09It's like you might as well try to scrap it and do something completely different. I'm sure it's easy to talk yourself into the idea of like, okay, if we just get to 10 wins and we're in the dance, anything can happen. But got a lot of data. That's not true. And how many times can they - that suggests that it's not. But can you convince the decision makers in Pittsburgh that that's the case? T.J. Watt has a$30 million dead cap and if he is traded, they would save$12 million against the cap. He has a$32 million base salary next year. Very tradable. Yeah. Very tradable if they wanted to make that happen and fully hit the reset button.

30:40And if you're committing to tearing it down, do you even really care about the money that much? It's not even tearing it down. Again, there is. They have a ton of picks. They have some young pieces. The offensive line is fully intact. I don't think you have to commit to being this bad team. I just think you have to commit to a different organizational approach. And they just haven't been willing to do that. And I think now might be the right time. I agree with you. It's one of those things that I have to see to believe because I like who the Steelers are is just baked into my brain because they're the Steelers.

31:16They don't operate the same way as everybody else. They're way more patient. They're way more willing to play it by the book, even if they shouldn't. I think that's what they should do. I just, I need to, I need to see that to believe it. It's going to be a fascinating conversation and something to watch as we move into what is going to be a really intriguing week from like the coaching standpoint. What's happening with John Harbaugh, Mike McDaniel, getting all these interviews. We're going to scoop that up on Wednesday into Thursday this week. That's going to be our midweek show. Just kind of catching up with all the coaching news.

31:45Normal building the beast this week. We're deeply into draft time. If you guys are not checking out Building the Beast, now is the time to do that. And then we will be back on Friday with a two-part divisional round preview for Saturday and Sunday. We have the times. Lucky for me, the Bears will be playing right into our Sunday night recap again. Can't wait for that. But a lot of fun stuff on tap as we head into the best football weekend of the year pretty much every single year. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon.

32:20We'll see you next time.