The 2026 Scheme Change All-Stars

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2:17Robert Mays: truer version of the player we thought they might be as a prospect. Really enjoyed digging into this group with Dave and Derek. One little bit of housekeeping before we get to that show. We are doing another live show. September 1st, Tuesday at Lincoln Hall in Chicago, doing one before the season this time. We're going to do the windspool draft at the live show. That is what we are going to do. And so if you want to come enjoy that, jeer us, criticize the picks in real time, mock Derek, All of those things are on the table. I would enjoy all of that. So we're doing that at Lincoln Hall. Really enjoyed the one we did last year right before the playoffs.

2:56Robert Mays: Tickets go on sale July 27th. So please be on the lookout for that. If you want to join the Discord, that would be a great chance to kind of get all of the updates and real-time notifications about when those tickets are going on sale. Going to bring up the Discord a lot between now and the start of the season. Now is the time to get involved if you are not already. We have wins pools that are happening in the discord. So we're doing three person wins pools within the discord. We've got like 150 people already signed up for those. And so if you want to do your own, that's where you can do it. A lot of fun stuff happening.

3:31Robert Mays: Really fun show today. Let's get to it with me, Dave and Derek right now.

3:45Robert Mays: I've been looking forward to this one because we haven't really talked about what some of the shifting situations in the NFL might yield for players during the 2026 season. And so what we wanted to dig into today was players who have changed situations or changed schemes for one of two reasons. Either guys change teams, and so they're going to a new scheme because they're in a new place, or we have a new play caller on either side of the ball, and the situations for this player are going to look dramatically different in 2026. We've seen this happen, where if you change what is being asked of you, the role you're being played, the way you're being deployed, Derek, you can look like a drastically different player, and so that's what we're going to try to dig into today.

4:30Robert Mays: A handful of guys that for whatever reason may look a little bit different in 2026 than they looked last year.

4:36Dave Helman: I'm extremely excited for this one. Like I think I ended up with all players who actually did move teams. It wasn't just bringing in coordinators, but yeah, I think even a couple of these players though, like might change the scheme that they're going to and like might change what the play caller is going to do. So that was kind of like my separate angle for getting into things.

4:54Derrik Klassen: I like the synergy of what I'm hearing here. Cause most of mine are guys that I think will benefit from new coaching like i have one or two guys that change teams but a lot of my guys are

5:04Robert Mays: getting new coaches i have two and two so derek if you have guys that are going to be changing the schemes they're part of do you have a lot of like high profile players as part of this

5:12Dave Helman: um i i have one big one and then i would i would say in terms of changing the scheme it's mostly one big one and then i would say another one that like the team clearly tried to restructure how they're shaping that room is what I would say. Gotcha.

5:27Robert Mays: Okay. I was, cause I was going to say, I got a couple of like smallish players that I'm excited.

5:31Derrik Klassen: I can't wait to hear that. Cause Beller told me that Beller told me you had some deep cuts and I most of mine are fairly obvious. And I just looking through everything and looking at the different teams, I was like, if we're talking about how you're going to affect the scheme of your team, like I'm looking for somebody who's doing more than playing a role. So I'm, I'm curious to see what you came up with.

5:53Robert Mays: All right. So let me give me an example. What was the first one that you wanted to talk about? Okay. Scheme change all-stars for 2026.

5:59Derrik Klassen: Can we start? I'm going to start this off with a parameter that I set for myself. And y 'all don't have to, because I figure somebody will touch on this. I went into this with a no chargers rule.

6:10Robert Mays: I also had no chargers because you could do all of that. Yeah.

6:14Derrik Klassen: I didn't either. Because in the NFL media to be excited about the Mike McDaniel chargers.

6:19Robert Mays: It was so true. Because I was thinking about doing Ladd McConkie and I was kind of like, eh. We're already going to do this a hundred times between now and week one.

6:28Dave Helman: I've already seen so many people do Ladd McConkie is going to be Jalen Waddle. And like, that probably is going to be true. But again, that's like, everybody is trying to do that one, especially like all the fantasy people. Hampton, Keaton Mitchell is exciting.

6:40Robert Mays: Well, Keaton Mitchell is going to the same scheme. I guess he's not really. I'm just imagining Keaton Mitchell being Devon H. So I'm just imagining him being in the same offense. I know that's not right.

6:50Derrik Klassen: I opened up my laptop and I was like, no effing chargers. Like we don't need one more voice being excited about this. And for the record, I am. You did that. I did the exact same thing. For the record. I am excited about the chargers. I just figure you don't need one more person telling you that. That's great. Having said that, I went about as obvious as I possibly could with my first person. And that would be Ashton Jinty, who I just think is in a really, really good spot for a bounce back in year two. I also have a Raider.

7:23Robert Mays: the same the opposite of the chargers you could have had all the raiders sure yes like all the offensive linemen i think are actually really interesting we could have done raiders offensive linemen because i think that the scheme change you think about what the chain obviously going out and getting graze able was important for the seahawks right and abel is staying healthy and there are a lot of reasons that the seahawks offensive line played well on the merits of the players but they went from maybe the least friendly offensive line environments of the league to one of the most friendly offensive line environments in the league.

7:53Robert Mays: And that's exactly what the Raiders are doing. So we could have picked your Raider. I also have one, but Gentry is a great place to start.

7:59Derrik Klassen: I just, it is obvious. And what's funny is obviously the advanced stats are really bad. The Raiders had one of the worst running games in the NFL. But from a pure counting stat perspective, Ashton Gentry was perfectly productive. He just didn't set the NFL on fire the way a lot of us hoped that he might. But you talk about things working in his favor between getting, I mean, obviously the quarterback goes without saying anything, but getting Clint Kubiak and then the Raiders immediately investing in a good center. And we can say whatever. You can say that. Okay. My first note literally says, say what you want about the cost it took to get him.

8:38Derrik Klassen: I think it still matters that Vegas got Tyler Linderbaum. And even if you don't like, even if you think the contract is ridiculous and he's not a top three center, he is unquestionably an upgrade from what they have. And it's also an important piece of this for the Kyle Shanahan coaching tree.

8:56Robert Mays: The scheme fit is just, even if they paid a premium, it's so, so easy to imagine why he will work there and why he will help that offense.

9:04Derrik Klassen: If you want wild over your skis statements because it's July and that's what we do, it just prioritizing center immediately when you get there reminds me of Shanahan seeking out Alex Mack when he got to Atlanta. He's done it like three different times.

9:18Robert Mays: What was that? Oh my God, now I'm forgetting the guy's name. Who's the guy in San Francisco that he signed from the Giants immediately after getting there? Weston Richburg. Remember Weston Richburg? Oh my God.

9:28Dave Helman: I remember him coming out of the draft now. Yes. Oh my God.

9:33Derrik Klassen: I think... talking about deep cuts one of my one of my favorite dots to connect is like who does a first time coach prioritize when he especially if it's like a like first time being a head coach not just first year on a new job like what do you prioritize for your team tyler linderbaum's contract is hilarious but he's a good player and what clint kubiak likes to do like that's going to come in handy and I just think Ashton Gentry stands to benefit in a big big way I think also

10:04Dave Helman: I think another one that this reminds me of obviously Shanahan bringing a center everywhere that he goes is a big one it also reminds me a little bit of like when Sean McVay got to Los Angeles he went and made sure that he could get Andrew Whitworth and obviously left tackle is different than center but he was like we have this star incredible running back who was just running into brick walls the entire previous season let's go out make sure we can beef up the offensive line and then I'm going to make sure that we have a good run game system for us and this guy is going to be able to be unleashed like Gentry I think it's easy to like again we could have done almost any Raider there was actually I had a kernel of like Kirk Cousins I think is actually like an underrated one that you could have picked he's going home that's why right exactly he's he's he's getting comfy now but Gentry I think is the obvious one because I think with Bowers we've already seen what the peak can look like with Gentry I think we're still want to see it but I just think the scheme that they're going to put together for him actually having a center who can get on the move and like really do all the outside zone stuff that they're going to want to do it's it's absolutely perfect I'm glad you went to outside zone Derek because

11:07Derrik Klassen: my favorite stat that I pulled while I was looking at it is that even with the Raiders bad offensive line and worst in the NFL running game last year Gente's success rate running outside the tackles was almost 40 % and a solid like 10 percentage points higher than running in between the tackles and we know what the Shanahan tree likes to do wide zone is going to be a big part of this getting him outside the tackles is going to be a big part of this and Gente is clearly well suited for that he also he forced a missed tackle on 37 % of his outside runs last year which was among running backs that had 50 or more attempts top six in the league like he was pretty successful for the situation that he was in and i think the situation is going to be a lot better this year and i think he's going to benefit tremendously

11:57Robert Mays: all right well let's stick with the raiders because i also have a raider on my list

12:01Dave Helman: i'm going with jack besh okay is this a cooper cup ish sort of role type of thing yes yeah that's

12:10Robert Mays: exactly what it is and i before i even get into this i i want to apologize about comparing cooper cup to Jack Besh. I just want to get in front of that before we even start having this conversation. I know that it's like the worst type of analysis is comparing athletically limited white receiver to athletically limited white receiver. But in this specific case, I think it's so obvious what sort of role Jack Besh can fill within the Raiders offense, because it truly is just a one for one for what Cooper Cup did for the Seahawks last year. Among all the players in the NFL, and especially because it's all we've seen from Jack Besh because he was a rookie, I think you can make an argument that his deployment and usage within the Raiders offense last year was one of the more curious things a coaching staff did with any single player in the league.

13:01Robert Mays: Like Jack Besh is a big bodied over the middle, like zone beating space player. and the Raiders, for whatever reason, maybe it was because they didn't have any other options, decided that sticking him out as like an isolated X receiver as a rookie was the right way to handle it. I don't understand anything about it. And then you look at all the nice moments that he had. He caught like a big crossing route against the Colts from a condensed split. He had a really nice like third and medium, third and short, like inside win from the slot against the Chargers. And he only had like 29 targets last year.

13:39Robert Mays: So you can watch them all very quickly. But every single one of Jack Besh's nice moments last season came when he was either in the slot, which they did on about less than 30 % of his snaps, or in some sort of condensed alignment. That's all he's going to do with the Raiders. And we've been talking a lot this offseason about what are the Raiders going to do at receiver? What are the Raiders going to do at receiver? Even after signing Jalen Naylor. And I truly do think that if Jack Besh just plays a role that's like a younger version of what we saw from 2025 Cooper Cup combined with Brock Bowers and Jalen Naylor like there is a world like we were saying at the beginning where this system and this offense is raising the tide for a lot of these guys where this group looks a lot better the pass catchers than they do on paper Derek I think so and like Jack Besh I think is absolutely

14:24Dave Helman: going to get a ton of run because you need size in this offense especially as much as they are probably going to run the ball and like I know that Trey Tucker is a burner and I know that they signed Jalen Naylor but Cooper Cup played as much as he did last year even when the Seahawks acquired Rashid Shahid who like Kubiak was familiar with because he's a bigger bodied guy and he can align closer to the obviously to the core form of the formation and do some of the blocking stuff and be more of that over the middle winner in a way that like again Rashid Shahid is a really good player but he's not going to do and then I think you spin that forward to this Raiders team like that's not really what Trey Tucker does like Jalen Naylor a little bit maybe in the underneath area but like not really like in terms of that box between like the painted numbers and that like 8 to 20 area like Jack Besh and obviously Brock Bowers those are the guys that you want to have

15:11Robert Mays: open there and I do think those two can coexist within an offense like this because the thought is all right if Brock Bowers is going to be your primary slot receiver as part of this what role does Jack Besh have and I would go to two different areas where I kind of push back on that a little bit one is just the sheer amount of condensed sets that you're going to see from the Seahawks this year. I think it was like 55 % of total snaps last year per next gen was in the highest rates, if not the highest rate in the entire league. And the other part is that in some of these heavier sets, when they have multiple tight ends in the field, the Seahawks last year per next gen, 302 total plays out of twin tight end looks.

15:46Robert Mays: And so even if you're in 12, if you have both of those tight, now it's the fourth highest rate in the league or fourth highest number in the league. So even if you're in a lot of these 12 personnel looks, if you have both tight ends on one side, and then both receivers on the other, even in 12 personnel, you have a slot receiver in the way that Jack Bess wants to play. And so I don't know if impressed is the right word, but going back and watching him this morning and just what he did as a rookie, I just think he'll look like a drastically different player in this offense than he looked in the Chip Kelly offense last year.

16:17Derrik Klassen: We're all, we're just willing to give pretty much everybody that was associated with Adam Mulligan at this point, right? I was just about to say that.

16:25Robert Mays: I get a lot of shit for this and I completely understand because there are definitely times where I over index on it and it's silly. The play caller thing is so real. The environment that you exist in in the NFL and how much of a difference it can make in what you look like and what the offense feels like and when it's cohesive and when it's not. I've said this two years ago. I remember when we were talking about Caleb Williams and Jaden Daniels, and I still think this, where the right offensive ecosystem is a multiplier in a positive way, and the wrong offensive ecosystem is a multiplier in a negative way.

16:58Robert Mays: Like, if you can come in, and Clint Kubiak did what he did in Seattle last year, and every guy on the offense becomes 1.5 times as good as he should be, compared to the 0.75 times as good as he should be from last year, it makes a massive, massive difference. And based on what Kulbiak did last season, I think he absolutely deserves the benefit of the doubt as one of those guys who's going to have that sort of impact.

17:23Derrik Klassen: We talk about this all the time, and I weigh it a little more heavily than others do, but the track record goes back to the Saints for me as well. You go look at, I'm going back to Ashton Jenty, but you look at what he was able to do for the Saints running game in 2024, even with all the injuries that they had that year, I firmly firmly believe that this is going to look pretty good even for a team that's clearly in transition that's certainly going to look a lot better than it did last year all right Derek

17:50Robert Mays: we got two Raiders who's your first guy that you wanted to talk about I mean I'll stay on the West

17:55Dave Helman: Coast and this is my only real big ticket item and this is the player that I do think is going to have to the the play caller acquired them so that they can change the scheme and that's Mike Evans going to the San Francisco 49ers like they have not had Kyle Shanahan hasn't really had an extra receiver like this in a very long time. They've had guys who can like moonlight it a little bit, but this is a true like his best routes are like deep stop routes, deep out routes, go balls, posts like that is the Mike Evans route tree. And I think why he allows them why he allows them to do this sort of scheme changes so much of the offense recently is that because all the receivers they have, even if they're good at certain things, they're only good at certain things like Ricky Pearsall is a really good player, but you want him running certain routes.

18:39Dave Helman: Jawan Jennings was the same way. Kendrick Bourne has been the same way for them at certain points. Like it's all very specific. Mike Evans, I think does everything that you got out of Jawan Jennings. Like he can be your slant runner. He can be your deep dig runner. If you want him to, he can win some of your just like, we want to throw a goal line fade to a guy sort of thing. But now he can actually be a vertical presence in the way that this offense has not really had outside the numbers in a long time.

19:03Robert Mays: And I don't even different than that, right? Like I was a viable threat outside of the numbers, but as a different sort of player with a different sort of skill set than what Mike Evans is bringing to you.

19:13Dave Helman: A hundred percent. He was like a speed slash. Like maybe he just like burns past the guy one time. Whereas Mike Evans is more of like, and I think this actually fits Brock Purdy's skill set better. Brock Purdy is not that good of a deep thrower. He does it more often than Jimmy Garoppolo did, which I think does unlock something in the offense. Like there is something to simply making defenses respect it. But because I think sometimes he struggles to drive the ball a little bit and sometimes leaves up some floaters. Well, how do you still make that work? You go and get Mike Evans, who if the ball is down there 40 yards down the field, he's going to go find it or he can go up for it.

19:44Dave Helman: And I do think that this just allows them to get a little bit more spread out because I think Shanahan's system has always been a little bit more condensed. You know, that's Shanahan, McVay, Kubiak, we just mentioned. They've always been more condensed. But I do think having an ex-receiver like this allows you to be a little bit more multiple and not always feel like you have to play inside to out in the way that they have recently. I think having a guy like Mike Evans allows you to play a little bit more outside to in if they want to.

20:13Derrik Klassen: I'm sure there's an example at some point I mean you could obviously if you want to go back a decade to when he wasn't the head coach Julio Jones maybe but it just feels like it's been a while since the Niners had a presence like this in their offense the offense was different like

20:29Robert Mays: the offense just changed and like what they were trying to do changed where it was more about creating space it was more about the collective rather than the individual pieces right like Like they would create all of this space and then the players were so good that they were really good at manipulating and like attacking matchups within that space. But there wasn't just a we're going to stick you out here and like the player is truly what's driving it. Does that make sense? The players are so good, but like the way that they created space, they created space so the players could dominate. Mike Evans is you don't need space.

21:05Robert Mays: There's no that is not his currency that he's working in in the way it was even for a guy like Kittle. where like Kittle's best trait is what he's doing when you can get him the ball with these yak opportunities and he can rumble and so trying to find a player where space is not their currency is not what this offense has been for a little while but that is what Mike Evans is exactly and

21:27Dave Helman: like I think because the offense has become a little bit more pure pass pure drop back a little bit more gun having a guy like Mike Evans who again allows you to open up the formation a little bit and kind of do have a little bit more of a deeper drop back game and open up some space for them. I think, again, that is, you know, four or five years ago, it was like you said, it was more of a we're trying to slash into these hook zones. We're trying to like create yak opportunities over the middle. The offense still does do that, but they are more of a open everything up four and five out in the progression.

21:58Dave Helman: One, two, three, four, five. Well, now if you have a serious legitimate threat on the outside playing X, that opens up a bunch of stuff. But it also, I think, opens them up to like this was an offense that to me at least it felt like anecdotally a lot of two by two stuff and then like having Christian McCaffrey sit over the middle run option routes and all that stuff it was a very like even across the board offense well now if you have Mike Evans you can run a little bit more like overloaded to one side stuff and just go let Mike Evans hang out over there on the boundary side and and take a lot of gravity and really I think steal the show over on that

22:29Robert Mays: side of the field so the Niners last year per next gen 41 and a half percent trips which was the fourth lowest rate in the entire league that checks out that checks out and like and like that

22:40Dave Helman: I even actually you know obviously went back and watched a little bit of Mike Evans before this he was not healthy for a lot of last year so I started with week one against the Falcons but with seven minutes to go uh in the second quarter Mike Evans was all alone to the boundary on the left hand side and they shift uh the tight end over to the right and they get in this tight trips bunch which is like again that's not a lot of what the Niners did Mike Evans just runs this like deep up and out route against like a two invert look. And so the safety who was rolling down to play the hook to his side, he gets he flies down so fast, gets so out wide and is like peaking at Mike Evans, like he's paying him so much respect that when they run the deep over route back into where he should be, he can't get there in time.

23:20Dave Helman: Baker Mayfield throws a touchdown to a Mecca Buka. And so those are the plays where like Mike Evans isn't making the play, but you have to respect the player like Mike Evans so much that it allows other people to get open.

23:30Robert Mays: I also just think it's a great example. And you watch what they were at the end of last season. And I almost appreciate when a problem is so clear and obvious that there's only one way to solve it. And when you were watching those last two Niners games against the Seahawks, it was just like, well, we all know what's going on here. Like, if you can't throw the ball with any credibility vertically outside the numbers, a defense that is as talented and as well coached as Seattle's is, are just going to put the clamps on you and it's going to be over. And that's exactly what those games felt like.

24:03Robert Mays: And so is there a world where Mike Evans is two steps too far over the hill, is too banged up to have the sort of impact we'd like to see? Yes, obviously. But in the perfect world, you see the vision. You understand why a guy like this is necessary to the Niners kind of breaking out of that very small box that they had to play in last year, especially as more guys got hurt. I'll take it a step further, too. Mike Evans needs to be that guy for them to be the team they want to be this year. but going out and getting shriveling when they did, you're trying to like kind of double down on it, right?

24:35Robert Mays: I think the hope is probably he's given you some of the dirty work, Jawan Jennings stuff in year one, but he's got more giddy up than Jawan Jennings did. And so hopefully you have two guys that can start to stretch you a little bit vertically outside the numbers where last year, especially by the end of the season, you had zero.

24:50Derrik Klassen: It's just exciting to think of like, you can picture 49ers football in your mind and it's great and terrifying at its best, but it just has the potential to look completely different this year with some of the additions. I'm ready to get hurt again, baby. I choose to believe I'm already there.

25:06Robert Mays: All right, let's take our first quick break and then come back with another set of these guys.

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28:31Robert Mays: Hi, David, who's number two on your list for your scheme change all-stars for 2026?

28:36Derrik Klassen: I'll be honest. I worked backward from a scheme that I'm just excited to watch. And I think we all are because I said, you know, I didn't want to pick any chargers, but I still wound up picking a hipster darling choice in terms of being excited about schemes for this coming year. It was hard to not hard, but I had to think about who I wanted to identify and his new rookie teammate is eating up a lot of the oxygen right now. But I went with Jalen Thompson, who is again, think about what happened when Christian Parker got to Dallas, who they identified. The Cowboys don't even like to spend money in free agency, But the first guy they identified and one of the first guys outside of their typical spending threshold in recent history is Jalen Thompson coming over from Arizona for, I think it was$33 million a year and pretty, pretty hefty contract.

29:28Derrik Klassen: $33 million a year. He wishes it was$33 million a year. $11 million a year for Jalen Thompson, which is, it's a sizable contract.

29:41Robert Mays: That is a healthy safety contract for a player on his third deal. I mean, his first deal, I think the second contract he got, he got early and he was a young player. And so it's not third contract in the way that we typically think about it, but he's still a third contract guy getting$11 million a year.

29:56Derrik Klassen: I love the idea of Christian Parker IDing this guy as somebody who can help him implement his scheme and then also winding up with Caleb Downs in the draft like two months later. And that was probably the pie in the sky idea when the offseason started. and then you get it and you get Caleb Downs. And I assume he's going to play a lot of nickel early on as a safety as a rookie. But that's that's the fun part about this is the Cowboys now have one of the more versatile secondaries in the at least in the NFC, if not the entire NFL, just with what those two guys can bring to the table. Obviously, that's assuming Downs is who we think he is.

30:38Derrik Klassen: But Jalen Thompson's been doing this stuff forever. I mean, last year, he played 40 % of his snaps at free safety, 25 % in the slot, and 33 % in the box. So, I mean, do with that what you will. Like, this is a guy who can play everywhere you want him to. I doubt you'll see him out wide a whole lot. But if you want to get goofy with it, I bet he could probably moonlight there in small sample sizes. And so I think he's going to be a big piece of implementing what Christian Parker wants to do. and I think the Cowboys secondary is just between him and Downs going to be very nebulous and I

31:14Robert Mays: can't wait to watch it the only reason I didn't think of somebody like him is that even though the scheme is very different right like when you watch the Cardinals and then you watch the Eagles from last year those are very different defenses in a lot of ways but for the safety specifically Derek and a lot of the two safety looks they do it differently I'm looking at the numbers right now Cardinals played 30 and a half percent quarters last year which was the highest rate in the league going to almost double the league average and about five and a half percent cover six the eagles actually played way less quarters than you might think they put it at below average rate it was 15 but then they played 21 cover six and so what you're asking of the safeties playing a quarter safety the eagles and the cowboy and the cardinals from last year were both at 36 and so i think that even if it's going to look different like the aesthetics of it look very different what jalen Thompson is going to be asked to do is actually pretty similar.

32:04Robert Mays: And he's very, very good at that. And so for me, he's probably more of a linchpin players that could swing these units either way than somebody like this. But I understand why that's why he wasn't on my radar, but I do think he's absolutely worth mentioning in something like this.

32:20Derrik Klassen: I think, like I said, for me, it's, it's the scheme. And, and like you, you settle on a player after the fact, like I said, I reverse engineered this, but I do think, again, this was the guy Christian Parker targeted when he got here or got there. And I think that speaks volumes to what they think about what he can do for them. And even if the assignments are similar to what he was doing in Arizona, it's just going to be a crucial part of what I think is one of the more exciting scheme changes in the league. I 100 % agree.

32:56Robert Mays: I mean, like, it's just the, when the Cowboys secondary in each of the last, under each of the last two coaching staffs was frustrating to watch for different reasons, right? When they were under Dan Quinn, when you're playing all that, man, there, it's a lot of feast or famine. They're easy to pick on because you know what they're going to be in. And so that was the frustrating element of watching it. And then you transition to Iberflus and the frustrating element of watching it is there's an absurd, obnoxious amount of air in the coverage every single time I'm watching this team. And the guys who are foundational expensive pieces aren't comfortable playing this way.

33:30Robert Mays: And we barely got to see those guys last year. And so going from those two iterations of the Cowboys secondary, even one that had played well under Quinn to one where watching a cohesive zone based Cowboys defense, which I think they absolutely could be this year, Derek, is going to be a pretty big transition from the types of teams we've watched in Dallas over the last five or six years, even when

33:54Dave Helman: the defenses were good it's gonna be way different yeah because when they were good under dan quinn it was a lot of just like player driven the pass rush is great we're gonna play man coverage and that was it whereas this is much more of like a rolodex uh type of system like doing all the too high stuff i think this is like because the name of the episode is scheme change all stars i think jalen thompson is a fantastic pick because even if he was good in arizona and is going to be asked to do a lot of similar things i don't think that many people like like the general football public is like, man, Jalen Thompson is like an all-star.

34:26Dave Helman: But I do think if this defense becomes like—

34:28Robert Mays: You don't think the Arizona Cardinals are pumping out superstar level talent in terms of name net recognition? It's Buda Baker and some dudes for the most part. Do you think most casual NFL fans are really clocking in for Buda Baker every single Sunday? It says more about you than them, buddy. Well, no.

34:43Dave Helman: Did you know that Buda Baker has made a Pro Bowl in the 8 of 9 of his NFL seasons? I do think that people know about Buda Baker. That did surprise me.

34:50Derrik Klassen: I don't think I would have guessed it was eight of nine, but Buddha's been the man for a long time. He's got good counting stats too.

34:56Robert Mays: He fills up the box score because of how he's used.

34:58Dave Helman: Because his role is like, you are going to make the tackle one way or another.

35:03Robert Mays: It almost, there are similarities to it between being like a really high volume, but inefficient scorer in the NBA. Like there's value to it. Taking a lot of shots. Like that's kind of what Buddha's role was for the Cardinals defense. Buddha Baker as Jamal Crawford. Yeah, Jamal Crawford's coming off the bench. I'm more thinking about, I'm trying not to besmirch anybody. Brandon Williams. Wasn't Russell Lesbrook? Yeah.

35:25Derrik Klassen: This would be...

35:26Robert Mays: Monte Ellis.

35:27Derrik Klassen: Oh, Monte Ellis, the original, the pre-Steph warrior. I would have to look, I'd have to take a deeper look at this, but is Jalen Thompson the most impactful free agent changing teams this year who's never been to a Pro Bowl?

35:44Dave Helman: It's a great question. Never been to a, man, yeah, I guess I would have to scour like who yeah i don't know the answer to my head it feels like a great answer jaylen phillips

35:52Robert Mays: ever made a pro bowl surely he has right i don't know there's a chance he has not

36:02Derrik Klassen: he has not wow jesus christ i would guarantee you he's the first 30 million dollar a year

36:07Robert Mays: player in the nfl that's never made a pro bowl you know what man we just we just need to lay

36:11Derrik Klassen: the pro bowl to rest as a designator of anything he's been hurt all the time yeah it actually is

36:16Robert Mays: not that surprising that he hasn't made a pro bowl i mean that contract is mostly based on potential but yeah so i i understand your point is well made and i do think that jaylen thompson is going to be a very impactful guy that has flown a little bit under the radar all right let's move on from former cardinals and go to current cardinals this is the only like headline grabbing guy among my group i'm going with marvin harrison jr okay i i would love to hear the case because

36:44Dave Helman: he feels a little bit of a different player to me than JSN. So I guess it's like it's not the same offense, but it's in the similar bucket, which is why I was kind of went there.

36:53Robert Mays: I just think the I think some of the best things I went back and I was watching it today. And this isn't even a criticism. OK, in terms of the Cardinals offense, the Cardinals offense is old school. And Drew Petsing, I think it's important to remember that Drew Petsing is, I mean, he worked with Kevin Stefanski for a very long time. and that Minnesota staff under Kevin Stefanski, Stefanski was there for like 15 years in Minnesota. It's a very weird career where he stayed in one spot for a very long time and just cycled through different offensive systems and was an assistant within those offensive systems.

37:26Robert Mays: And so if you talk to Drew about like where his football DNA comes from, it's a lot of like Norv Turner stuff. Like it's old school NFL stuff. And then you go back and you watch the Cardinals over the last couple of years. It's old school, man. You got a big old X receiver out there and you're going to throw him some one-on-one opportunities and he's going to feast. He's going to sink or swim. That was a lot of the offense. And again, it's not even a criticism, but when you look at what they were doing in Arizona last year and you project what it might look like under Michael floor coming from LA, I want to read you guys a couple of numbers because they were just staggering to me when I looked at them.

38:03Robert Mays: So last year, the Arizona, the Los Angeles Rams per next gen through 133 passes to a receiver who was in motion at the snap. 133. That was the most in the league. If the Rams did it 133 times, how many times do you think the Cardinals did it?

38:20Derrik Klassen: You're going to tell me like 18, 17. Yeah.

38:23Robert Mays: 18 is exactly right. That is exactly the right answer. That's incredible. 133 to 18. And it's just one number to illustrate is how different these offenses were. A couple others that stick out. 28 % spread looks for the Cardinals last year per next-gen, third highest rate in the league. They were in condensed sets 30.6 % of the time. 28 % spread for the Cardinals, 7.3 % for the Rams, which is the second lowest in the league. So the condensed splits, the motion, how guys are being used, the specificity of the roles. Obviously, Devontae Adams has used more of a traditional X within the Rams offense, but that says more about Devontae Adams than the way the Rams want to play.

39:05Robert Mays: With other guys, the lines are more blurred. Like Puka's doing a little bit of everything, and I think that's by design. Like he's off the line of scrimmage, he's on the line of scrimmage, he's running a really full route tree, doing a bunch of different sorts of things. And in my opinion, I think the best stuff that Marvin Harrison Jr. has done over the last couple years is when you're allowing him to run some of those in-breaking routes in the intermediate area of the field. And I think on two fronts, We just didn't see him be that impactful on those plays. One is because they didn't ask him to do it all the time within that offense because he was doing a lot of isolation stuff on the outside.

39:38Robert Mays: And two, he's got a tiny little quarterback who's not throwing those routes. He last year, 168 snaps or dropbacks with Jacoby Brissett. That was it. And you saw some of it. Catches a big in against the Cowboys, against the Bucs. He has another one over the middle of the field. And so Bursette was more willing to throw those routes than Kyler was. And I think you've got a little bit of a glimpse of, all right, in this sort of with this sort of usage in this area of the field, what could Marvin Harrison Jr. be? And I think in this offense, Derek, he's going to get every opportunity to attack in those areas in ways he just didn't always under the previous staff in Arizona.

40:16Dave Helman: I mean, that's what I'm hoping that they start to tap into. And because like Michael Fleur has been around, I think, too. I know he wasn't there for the Super Bowl year. He actually came, I think, a couple of years after the first Rams Super Bowl year. I mean, in 2021 with Stafford.

40:31Robert Mays: He was there the following year because O 'Connell got the job in Minnesota after the Super Bowl. And that's when LaFleur got there in 2020.

40:39Dave Helman: This was when LaFleur was with, God bless him, the New York Jets and Zach Wilson. But he's obviously familiar with a lot of the stuff that McVay was doing. And obviously during that McVay time, during the 2020 and 2021 Rams, or 2021, it was Odell Beckham was like their true X receiver running a lot of these in-breaking routes. And they were using him on that. I know that Odell Beckham and Marvin Harrison Jr. on the surface feel like very different players. And obviously I think OBJ at his peak was. But I think at that stage in his career, that is the style of receiver that he was. And I think that that has been the best stuff that Marvin Harrison has done.

41:13Dave Helman: So you make the point that, too, it really is about the quarterbacks. Like, it's not even just that. I think the thing with short quarterbacks like Kyler Murray, it's not just that they struggle to see the middle of the field more and it's a little bit unclear for them. Think about the launch points because they are smaller and shorter. The ball has like a higher tendency if you're throwing directly over the middle to kind of float on you and like go a little bit high if you miss. And if you miss high, you're throwing straight to a center fielding safety. Whereas a guy like Brissette, who's much taller and can like drive down on the ball, those middle of the field throws aren't as scary.

41:44Dave Helman: And so I think that's why he's able to access that in a way that Kyler Berry just really wasn't for him.

41:49Robert Mays: I'm with you. And I think that there are multiple different levels on where this can look a lot different from Marvin Harrison Jr. I'm still a little bit of a candlelit for like what year three Marvin Harrison Jr. in a drastically different role can be like. One thing, Liam Cohen was the Rams offensive coordinator in 2022. I have for many reasons memory hold the 2022 Los Angeles Rams season.

42:10Dave Helman: I've got a Liam Cohen one up next, actually, if you want to jump right into it. I've got Chris Rodriguez, the running back, signing over from, obviously, from Washington. This one is, so him and Cohen were actually together at Kentucky in 2021. And Chris Rodriguez had a 1 ,400-yard rushing season in college. And it was the best year of his career. He had actually come back the following year for a senior season, only ran for like 900 yards. It was still a fine season. He got drafted, all that stuff. but clearly did a lot of work in Cohen's offense as like that a lot of outside zone sort of running like he was just a perfect fit for it.

42:47Derrik Klassen: I appreciate so much you going back to college to fortify this take I really do.

42:52Robert Mays: I mean those Liam Cohen Kentucky teams are the reason that Will Levis was a top 40 pick.

42:57Dave Helman: Got a quarterback drafted in the top 40 exactly and a lot of that was because Levis was able to get into a lot of favorable down in distances they ran the ball well and they were able to throw play action and I think Rodriguez was a huge part of that and so I think last year there are some factors of like why the Washington run game works like obviously they involve the quarterback a lot and it's a lot of spread looks and all that stuff and Rodriguez wasn't necessarily like a bell cow for them but last year alone Rodriguez had a 45.5 success rate according to NFL Pro that was the ninth best in the league between DeAndre Swift who was playing for Ben Johnson's Bears and Jalen Warren who had like a really really good season and then according to true media he only had a 13.4 stuff rate last year which is either getting hit at or behind or tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage which was 11th best right behind the two rams running backs like he is i think brings a level of safety and just like getting five yards when five yards is blocked that they just absolutely did not have last year i'm this is such a great thing to bring

43:58Robert Mays: up stability is like is the word i like it just makes the offense feel so much more stable down to down and that we've talked about this and this is another case of all right where did you really need something based on where your flaws were last year and when we were talking about the Jags offense I don't know three or four weeks ago and we were doing a lingering questions the thing we came back to is you look at the run game consistency and success rates and just the engine of the offense in the back half of last year it was horrific and so going out and getting somebody like this like Derek is saying where it's like I just need you to get four yards on this play I just need to be in second and six way more than I was last year.

44:36Robert Mays: I think that's the proposition that you're hopefully betting on a guy like Chris Rodriguez.

44:40Derrik Klassen: I don't have it in front of me, but Cohen was quoted. We might have talked about that on the lingering questions episode. He was quoted during training camp about talking about guys who he can count on to get those yards. We're like, I just need to be able to rely on you to get get what's there. I think also, but the Jags also were lacking in explosive runs, if I remember this correctly.

45:05Robert Mays: They actually, they didn't have many. And that's, it's, that's the problem is that like, when you think of HN in your mind, you think about like those like slashing, like outside runs where he is getting some explosives and that also wasn't happening. So if you're not consistent down, down and you're not getting explosive runs, what are we doing here?

45:21Derrik Klassen: Well, maybe that's, that's for Basial Tootin to figure out like that's, that's his job is to get the explosives.

45:26Robert Mays: I feel so bad for every single fantasy player that is going to be talking themselves into the monster Basial Tootin season. And Chris Rodriguez is getting 18 carries a game for the Jags offense.

45:37Derrik Klassen: It's going to be a really tough life. Easiest fade I remember since year two Zach Stacey.

45:42Robert Mays: Basial Tootin, I think so.

45:43Dave Helman: Yeah. Easy fade. And because I think the thing is like all the running backs have a role. Like Tootin is your we want to be explosive. We can throw the ball to him sort of back. Rodriguez is your masher. We're running him on like early downs. We're using him in the red zone down near the goal line, all that stuff. And then LaQuint Allen is like a fantastic third down and blocking back in a way that like Rodriguez is a fine pass blocker, but doesn't really give you anything as a pass catcher. And that's probably the reason they don't want to use him there. But I just really think purely as a runner, he's perfect for what they want to do.

46:13Dave Helman: One, like Dave was saying, he was like, Cohen said, we need someone who can just do this. Well, he knows Rodriguez could do it because he like he already coached him. So there's a familiarity there. and I just think when you watch him like he really is such a patient runner and has that very good like lateral explosive ability he actually runs a lot like Zach Charbonnet um with the like with the Seahawks last year I think they're very similar players and to that end the one the last thing I wanted to point out the commanders last year had 30 snaps of under center outside zone I think according to SIS is where I looked this up the Jaguars had 109 which I think that is the style of runner that you want Chris Rodriguez to be.

46:53Dave Helman: So he's now going to a scheme that fits, I think, what he does really, really well.

46:58Derrik Klassen: I just it's a theme for the show, but this is the perfect show to highlight it on. But the Jags famously did nothing to their offense. Like they lost HN to the Saints. And then other than their draft picks, it's just Chris Rodriguez. But when your only addition is to give 10 million dollars to a backup running back that the head coach has a history with, that should send you a pretty clear signal. It reminds me, I have Chris Nolan on the brain because I just saw The Odyssey, but it reminds me of like directors who just want to work with the actors they like over and over again, which I will say in the case, like Chris Nolan, awesome, dude.

47:38Derrik Klassen: Like you make good movies, keep working with the same people, but it can be a double-edged sword where you're like, you know, you can step outside of your comfort zone, Liam Cohen. Like if this doesn't go well, maybe that'll be a criticism.

47:48Robert Mays: But I think that's the whole point of this is that like you have the, I don't, I feel weird about, I have hesitance about touching the hot stove with Basil Tootin. Like you have, and then the whole point of Chris Rodriguez is that like, it's a comfortable blanket. Exactly. And so I love the fact that some people have spent and will continue to spend over the next month and a half, just countless hours, words, trying to figure out who the guy is in the Jags backfield. And Derek is like fetishizing the idea that like, they all have these specific roles and the synergy is just making him so happy like the look on your face right now at the horror of everybody trying to figure out who the guy is going to be among

48:25Dave Helman: that trio is very telling yeah it's going to be like a i don't know 40 30 you know 30 sort of split in terms of the the touches and the playing time it's all going to be very hives over there

48:39Robert Mays: all right let's take one more quick break and then come back and hit a few more of these guys

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49:46Robert Mays: All right, Dave, who's your next one?

49:49Derrik Klassen: Not exactly an under-the-radar name, given that he's one of the better defenders of the last decade, but potentially a new role for him in a new defense, which is what's interesting to me. And it's been on my mind since we did the last lingering questions episode when we talked about Patrick Graham. And I'm dying to know what Patrick Graham does with Jalen Ramsey. And what that might look like. And it's all very cloak and dagger right now. I don't know the answer, but I was curious. There's a lot, you know, I think Patrick Graham did say during Steelers offseason. That during their mini camp and their OTAs and whatnot, that they have like a Charles Woodson sort of role in mind for Jalen Ramsey, which great.

50:35Derrik Klassen: Well, Charles, Charles Woodson made that transition from corner to safety as well as anybody's ever done. but what does that look like for Jalen Ramsey? I mean, he did transition to free safety halfway through last year, but what does that look like moving forward into 2026? I mean, they added Jahan Dotson. They have Deshaun Elliott there, and there's a lot of theorizing going around that Jalen Ramsey might be the Steelers full-time nickel this year, or at least play a lot of his snaps in the nickel. And I think that could make a lot of sense for a guy with his physicality, his willingness in the run game at this stage in his career.

51:13Derrik Klassen: We joked about it on that episode, Robert. Patrick Graham was pretty clearly just running what Pete Carroll wanted to run last year.

51:21Robert Mays: And they didn't have a nickel last year.

51:22Derrik Klassen: Exactly. They ran base like 57 % of the time. They were top three in the league in base percentage. But in the three years prior to Pete Carroll's arrival in Vegas, they ran nickel 67 % of the time. They were, I mean, 11th most in the league. They ran nickel 82 % of the time in 2023 when they had Nate Hobbs and Trevon Merrick there. So Patrick Graham's history suggests that this Steelers defense is going to look a certain way. And I would love to see what Jalen Ramsey could look like in a role like that, particularly with his size and his physicality.

51:56Robert Mays: What do you think about where Jalen Ramsey should play this year, Derek, and among that group?

52:01Dave Helman: I mean, I think it, I honestly don't know because I do think last year it felt like when they moved him, it was a little bit more of like convenience. Like they had just kind of found a new nickel toward the end of the season. Their back end play was so bad that they just moved him. And so they were also injured as hell when they did that last year. It was like he, the value in having a Jalen Ramsey is that you can just move him where you need him. And I do think that they ended up doing that. I don't know where it's going to shake out this year. I do, I will, what I will say is that I think playing him exclusively at the nickel could be very interesting, given the rest of the cornerback room that they have.

52:36Dave Helman: When you have Joey Porter Jr., who is one of the best press corner covered guys in the league, you have Jamel Dean, who is also a really good press corner. And I actually almost brought up for this exercise kind of for this reason. And then you would have Jalen Ramsey, who is like a bigger body nickel, potentially. I do think that gives you like a unique size and physicality matchup on like, you know, directly at the line of scrimmage. And I do think that that goes back to a little bit of what we talked about with Patrick Graham. If you look early in his Raiders tenure, it was a lot more cover zero.

53:04Dave Helman: It was a lot more men. It was a lot more like trying to get hands on people than it obviously was last year. And so I wonder if he sees that collection of bodies that he has now and says, maybe that's something I want to do a little bit more of.

53:16Robert Mays: And Jalen Ramsey is outside corners, really the only thing that's probably off the table because I think it's pretty easy to imagine a world where when they're in base, he's playing safety. When they're in nickel, he's playing nickel. If you look at the other guys they have, I think that makes the most sense. And I enjoyed the Brandon Eccles experience in the back half of last year. Like he had a lot of really fun moments when thrust into that nickel role. Like the James Pierre Brandon Eccles duo was actually pretty fun in the back half of last season. I could understand wanting to roll with Jalen Ramsey as the full-time player in that spot.

53:48Robert Mays: And honestly, I think some of the best stuff Eccles did was as a blitzer last year. And so if you want to play a little bit more dime on later downs or in certain situations and get those linebackers off the field in coverage situations and have Brandon Echols as like a viable blitzer in that role, like I actually do think that's a fun version of these players in this defense.

54:08Dave Helman: that actually really is because Ramsey can just be like your dimebacker like he actually does survive he's because I mean so much of why the Seahawks were able to do it is because Emanwari has that sort of size and Ramsey is built I don't know if they're one for one in terms of size but like it's probably pretty close in terms of the way those guys are built

54:22Robert Mays: that's the thing about Jalen Ramsey is that he came into the league and built like a big nickel or a 60 he's just such a physical freak that he was an all-pro corner on the outside at that size

54:31Dave Helman: for most of his career I think this is a great answer because I I don't know what exactly what they want to do with him but this probably is one of the most curious and like interesting like position changes for a guy potentially it's definitely a guess i mean they're

54:46Derrik Klassen: understandably so not trying to give trade secrets away before they have to but it makes sense based on what they've done with their personnel this offseason and i just think it would be a really fun storyline if soon to be 32 year old jalen ramsey helped the steelers ride the big nickel wave.

55:04Robert Mays: He's built for it. Literally and figuratively, he's built for it. My last one here. I got a couple more, but this is like the last main one that I had. This is the deepest cut that I have. He would probably be more than Jack Besh. I'm going with Logan Hall.

55:20Derrik Klassen: You were big on this when he signed in Houston. You were very excited about this.

55:24Robert Mays: I just think this to me is like the purest expression of the exercise that we're doing here. When you look at what the Bucs defense was and what the Texans defense was and why somebody like Logan Hall can be a guy who outperforms a$6.9 million a year AAV contract as a third rotational interior defensive lineman, the scheme changes a big part of that. I was going back and looking at it today and looking at the amount of snaps that Logan Hall played as a three technique or further in for the Bucs last year. It's only like 125 pass rush snaps. His numbers on those are terrible. When you look at the pressure rate, and there isn't even outside of just eye test and projecting forward, him getting more opportunities in a very specific sort of role.

56:15Robert Mays: There isn't a lot of other empirical evidence that's pushing me to this. Like there isn't a underlying pressure rate stat or anything like that where I'm like, if you change his role, it'll be better. It's simply because I think when you saw him have a chance to just be a three technique, we're going to let you just pin your ears back and go, you see the potential. He just didn't get to do that. Like he almost never got to do that. He's either, if you look at the snaps, he spent more time as a five technique, like three, four defensive end or an edge player than he did as a defensive tackle last year.

56:50Robert Mays: If you just look at the raw numbers. And even when he was in those roles, Derek, we've talked about this a lot. When you're in that sort of blitzing scheme, you just don't get that many opportunities to be like, this is your gap. I want you to beat the out, the guard around his outside shoulder. There are so many plays where he's having to balance the rush because of blitz is coming from the other side or it's a sim pressure. And so he's having to jump a gap over or it's a game. And so in theory he's rushing the pastor, but he's never even trying to get to the quarterback. And so it's not surprising necessarily to see his baseline underlying rate stats not look very good in those scenarios but i think i saw enough flashes when he got the chance to do that where in this defense in houston where it is truly hey buddy you pin yours back and go they're they're they're no more like we're figuring out like how you need to be a part of the larger rush plan here like just get after it i think logan hall could be an interesting player

57:45Dave Helman: in a just get after a defense i love this one man like i logan play logan hall is a player that i liked coming out of college but yeah it's just the Todd Bowles defense it's not because he's he's also not that big he's like 290 like he's not he's not like a lot I mean it's exactly he

58:01Robert Mays: was small enough to play on the edge consistently yes but they didn't like like you said they didn't

58:05Dave Helman: let him pin his ears back a lot of the other pass rushers in a Todd Bowles style of defense you are like a masher or you are again like you said buying space for other pass rushers they're blitzing a lot and so a lot of their pass rush scheme is like we're trying to move guys like a Logan Hall and maybe run them into a guard so that this backer that we're firing is free like he's not getting the opportunities like you said to just pin it back but I do think that he hasn't I think even against the run game he's got a little bit of like able to like get under guys and get across their face when he's slashing and stuff like that and so I really do love this one you're going from a defense that like more like 3-4 playing base like really try to defend the run style of scheme which like that's he can do it but that's not really the best way to use him where now, like you say, you're going to a scheme where it's pedal to the metal, baby, like go and hit somebody.

58:54Derrik Klassen: We talked about this on the young talent show that Derek and I did earlier this week, too. Not that Houston is loaded with all stars on the interior, but you're also you're just not asking a lot of Logan Hall, just adding him to what's already there, especially if you get something from Caden McDonald. And I'm always interested in buying low on a guy like that who just needs to thrive with the snap count allotted to him. Like you're not asking Logan Hall to be a pillar of anything that you're doing.

59:25Robert Mays: They quietly, I mean, I think the Caden McDonald thing does remake their interior. But the moves they made on the interior has my antenna up a little bit. Because I do think that Tommy Toggiad played well for them last year. Sheldon Rankin's played well for them last year. And now having two more guys as part of that rotation with Logan Hall being more of a, it's just kind of an extension of what they've been before. While Caden McDonald is truly like the goal is, can this be a transformative player? Can this make us feel different as a defense than we've felt in the past when we've been arguably the scariest defense in the league over a multi-year period?

1:00:00Robert Mays: And so that group, like that group of four defensive tackles with Rankins, Togi Eye, Logan Hall, Caden McDonald, it's a group we don't often talk or think much about considering the star power everywhere else, but it's a collection of four players I am excited to watch in this scenario this season. All right, Derek, who's your last one here?

1:00:17Dave Helman: I actually have the flip side of the Logan Hall thing. The Tampa Bay Bucs replaced Logan Hall with A'shaun Robinson. And I think that that is a clear, like, we want to get...

1:00:27Derrik Klassen: Derek, what are you getting ready to predict about the Bucs in the coming weeks?

1:00:30Dave Helman: Okay, listen, that roster's not bad. That roster's kind of good. I'm, like, ready to maybe buy in on, like, an 11-win Bucs season. And part of that is I do think so I think it's a couple of things. They've like definitely remade this room overall. They let Greg Gaines go, I believe, and then also let Logan Hall go. And Logan Hall, Greg Gaines is like 310 ish, but he's short. He's like 6 '1". And then Logan Hall is a little bit undersized. He's closer to like 290. A'shaun Robinson is closer to 320. And then they also brought back Rakeem Nunez-Roches, who is a bigger like can play no sort of guy.

1:01:00Dave Helman: So they have clearly rebuilt this front to be more of a run stopping team. and I think that that is important for a couple of reasons like I think the Todd Bowles defense at its best and what they want to be is on first downs they want to be in base they want to beat the shit out of you in the run game get you into second and nine and then he's going to do all the stuff that he wants to do in terms of bringing pressures they couldn't do that as well as they wanted to last year last year the Bucks uh they were 12th in terms of runs uh run defense success rate on first down, which isn't bad. Like they were at 67.5%.

1:01:33Robert Mays: It's bad when you consider the resources devoted to stopping the run.

1:01:36Dave Helman: Yes. Given what they are trying to accomplish, that's not good enough.

1:01:39Robert Mays: When you are playing with heavy boxes that are in single high more than any other team in the league on early downs, it's unacceptable to be 12th and run defense success rate.

1:01:46Dave Helman: Yes. And for, for reference, when they won the Superbowl in 2020, when they were a good defense, that number was 73.1, which was the fourth best in the league. And so that is kind of the number that they want to get to. And I think, I think 70 % really is kind of the sweet zone for this. The Rams, the Broncos, the Texans, and the Browns were all above 70 % last year. And then I'll round up for the Seattle Seahawks. They were 67 or 69.7%. And so I think the Bucs bringing in a guy like A'shaun Robinson, who I don't think is like still a dominant run defender. I think the way that he was maybe three or four years ago, but I think is hold space better than a guy that like Logan Hall did and I think he's going to buy space for these backers I do think that this is a pretty significant they are trying to push things in the right direction here with a guy like A'shaun Robinson and so I think he is the type of player that can really elevate this front

1:02:36Robert Mays: again a lot of big boys in there and then you add Ruben Bain to the mix too it's like not even just

1:02:42Dave Helman: the defensive Jeremiah Trotter who or Josiah Trotter who's like 240 pound go and hit somebody backer like their front is very different like jeremiah derrick this is very much like a there

1:02:53Robert Mays: are two wolves inside of you thing with derrick where the idea of all these guys like the plugger linebackers and this run stuffing group he's gonna love watching this team on early downs and then when it's third and eight and no one understands what's happening behind them he's gonna start

1:03:06Dave Helman: losing his mind i'm just gonna bet that tyke smith and anton winfield are coming down fast enough to

1:03:11Robert Mays: close the windows all right that is a good collection of guys to keep an eye on when we think about what the scheme changes could mean for certain players around the league. We got some headline grabbing guys. We got some under the radar guys. Good, nice mix and variety of guys on this show. Really enjoyed this one. We've got a couple other fun shows coming for the rest of the week that I'm really looking forward to. I don't want to, I want to spoil either of them because, you know, some tenuous scheduling things, but of course, uh, some stuff that I'm really looking forward to. Hope you guys are as well, right before we get into the teeth of training camp.

1:03:44Robert Mays: For now, that is all we've got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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