The Bears are going for it, make blockbuster trade for Jeffery Simmons

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2:40Robert Mays: Welcome to the athletic football show brought to you by the U S bank smartly visa signature card. I'm Robert Mays. Well, bears took their swing, made the big move for Jeffrey Simmons. We broke it all down with me, Derek and Dave. Let's get to it right now.

3:02Robert Mays: Today is my wife's birthday, but it's actually my birthday.

3:10Dave Helman: you're the one who gets to celebrate.

3:12Derrik Klassen: I'm really glad you brought that up because like I was perusing my Instagram before we got on and saw you, your birthday post, happy birthday, Casey. And I was like, of course, on your wife's birthday, the bears nuke the NFL trade cycle and cannonball into the Superbowl conversation. You couldn't time it any better. It's absolutely outstanding.

3:35Robert Mays: Massive, massive deal. One that's not surprising. I think it makes sense to me based on where the Bears are, their thought process right now. Ryan Poles has had an itchy trigger finger with this stuff going back years, even before they were this sort of team that had these sort of aspirations. And so we could talk about the price. We could talk about how prudent it is, all of that, even though my reaction to that right now is, fuck you, nerds. Like, let's do this. But I think there's so much to dig into here. But my first thought is, yes. and even the position of it. I was thinking about this last night and preparing for talking about the, on the preview show today, people were talking about edges, going to get Khalil Mack and players like that.

4:16Robert Mays: And I get it, but they're actually, they have edges. They're not impact players, but they go like four deep now with those body types that they like. And defensive tackle was really the position where you look at the roster and like, where could you make a splash move? And that was the spot. And this is the splash defensive tackle. I mean, Derek, you're trading for what? one of the 10 best defensive players in the league right now, probably 12.

4:40Dave Helman: I would say at least 10. Like, I think this year he's been on like maybe a defensive player of the year candidate track. Like Will Anderson Jr. is obviously having a crazy season. Fred Warner has been insane. But like if you're picking a D lineman to be in that conversation, I think it's Jeffrey Simmons.

4:54Derrik Klassen: And he's been that guy for a while, by the way. I mean, he was amazing last year. I know he's he's 29. He turns 30 in the summer, which is it's probably older than you would prefer for sending two first round picks, but I think of game changing DTs as guys that can play at that level pretty well into their thirties. So if you're going to do that for an older player, it doesn't concern me as much as it could.

5:19Robert Mays: The word I had thought when I saw the price tag for a player that was about to turn 30, we talked about it on the show that ran today. If you guys want to go listen to it, my thought was, would it take a first and change? Because when you look at the history of these sorts of trades, Dexter Lawrence went for a first, it was a top 10 pick. And so that's a little bit different. Obviously the bears this year, I think sometimes we play the game too much of, well, the bears will be picking in the twenties every year. So why does it matter? Well, that doesn't always happen, but next year we know they're probably going to be picking in the twenties.

5:47Robert Mays: And so that, that one pick changes. Well, if you're going for pick 10 to pick 27, that, that is a big gap for one first round pick. But, and then the Quinn and Williams deal was a first and a second for a much younger player. And so this is a huge price tag. But when I was thinking back to it, this was the Max Crosby price and Max Crosby is 29 years old. And so the, for my first, first thought was we've never seen this sort of hall for a non quarterback at this age, but we actually did see it this spring that trade just didn't come to fruition.

6:19Dave Helman: And, and I think that those are good distinctions too, because like Quinton Williams is obviously a fantastic player. We've seen Max Crosby play on like borderline defensive player of the year caliber level of play. I think Jeffrey Simmons did that last year and he's doing it again this year and i think too that like generally we've seen how much these defensive tackle moves have done for teams over the last couple of years like absolutely new england signing obviously it's it's just a free agency signing but like new england signing milton williams to pair him with christian barmore completely unlocked their defense um obviously all of what seattle had done with their drafting and trading for like leonard williams and stuff and then even the bangles

6:53Derrik Klassen: this year like i was gonna say look at what dex is doing right now and and you know people will

6:59Dave Helman: say well oh dexter only went for a first and it's a good point that it was you know top 10 pick is a little bit different. I would also say to like there were genuine concerns about like Dexter Lawrence's health. Like, is he going to look the same where it's like Simmons? If you watch him play the last couple of weeks, I'm like, I'm pretty sure that dude is ready to go beat someone's ass tomorrow.

7:15Derrik Klassen: I also just we were talking about this before we started recording. Like there's just a difference between a trade done in the spring and a trade done halfway through the year. I mean, obviously, you know, you know, the pick, right? Like it's a top 10 pick verse a guess at what you might be landing. But on top of that, I don't know, Robert, I'd be curious for your perspective. I doubt that bears do this. If the NFC looked stronger, like if the Rams looked the way we imagined they might look at this point in the year, if it looked like it was just a gauntlet, do you do this at this point in time?

7:49Derrik Klassen: Or are the bears looking around? Like, who are we supposed to be afraid of right here? Like, even if this is accelerating our timeline a little bit. Let's go for it. Like there's nothing of quality. Of course, Seattle and San Francisco are really good teams. I'm not saying that there's nobody good in the NFC, but if you're the Chicago bears right now and, and several other teams, by the way, I'd be looking around like, yeah, man, this looks pretty doable to me or about as doable as it's realistically going to look at any time in the near future.

8:18Robert Mays: I think that's probably part of it. And we've, we've talked a lot about that over the last couple of weeks. And there are a lot of teams justifiably that are probably looking around the league and saying, why not us? And if you're the Bears, you know, I know I might not be the most reliable narrator, but I think you should probably be among those teams that are thinking that with the way that the offense has shown, the level of the offense has shown when the quarterback has played. And so I think that's part of it. I also think this is not just about this year. This is about looking at the available resources that you have and how you can find difference making players with those resources.

8:50Robert Mays: we've talked about this a lot with all these sorts of trades it's two first round picks so it's a different calculation but by using that first round pick even on 29 year old jeffrey simmons that is an avenue to like a truly impactful player the likes of which are very very hard to find and so this to me is about the next two years because if you look at the roster heading into next year they everyone comes back for the most part the guys on defense that won't be back are expensive players that they'll probably move on from and that's how they'll get some of the calf flexibility. And then even if you take it one step further than that, first round picks usually spent on premium players at premium positions.

9:27Robert Mays: This team has a lot of premium positions already sorted with young, cheap players. They have a quarterback. They have two receivers that are going to be on the roster for the next couple of years. They have another high-end pass catcher that they spent a top 10 pick on. They have two tackles that are going to be here for at least the next couple of years. Edge rusher is a question like that. That would be the one spot where you'd be like, they definitely probably do need another one of those over the next couple of seasons corner potentially. But I think a lot of those spots that you're going to be spending these first round picks on have been sorted over the next couple of seasons.

9:59Robert Mays: And I think they see this year and next year when Williams is still cheap as potentially a window for them to do this. And so as much as this is maximizing this year, I also think this is about getting ahead of making the biggest move you can make for your defense next year.

10:13Dave Helman: I mean, I couldn't agree more. And I also think that this is a situation where some people are fairly asking like these blockbuster trades, how often does it immediately work? And like sometimes guys get hurt, like, you know, Micah Parsons and stuff. But like even that, I would say like that was working until he got hurt, by the way, that team was really, really good. The thing that I would say on the flip side of it is like, how often are teams? Let's just say the Bears are picking 22nd to 28th in the next couple of years, something like that, without the trade having happened how often are teams hitting two of those picks in a row think about all the picks that the chiefs have made the bills like teams picking in this range like yeah they don't consistently and some of those teams are trading out of those to go pick in the top of the second round again but that's again the bills are drafting guys like keon coleman and tj parker who like maybe they can be fine players they are not like changing your team the way that i think that jeffrey simmons can and so jeffrey simmons is obviously expensive both in the draft picks and on draft capital.

11:10Dave Helman: But if he is such an impactful player that he makes the five or six guys around him 20 to 30 million dollars worth of value better, then you don't have to go pay a free agent. You don't have to worry about having hit on your late first round pick like he can just be this force multiplier in the middle that makes everybody better. And I believe that he is obviously that caliber of player.

11:31Robert Mays: You need a certain amount of blue chip players to win a Super Bowl, and they did not have enough blue chip caliber players on defense. And this is a surefire way to acquire a blue chip caliber player on defense, even if the price is really high.

11:42Derrik Klassen: The other thing I would bring up, I've thought a fair amount about the Colts trade from last year since this happened. And we kind of crushed that trade at the time. And it has obviously aged terribly for Indianapolis. I do think there's a difference though. And I want to say for the record, I mean, you, you said it gently, Robert, it's a high price. This, this is an overpay to me. Like this is, it is for what he's working in a vacuum. There's no denying that this is an overpay of a trade, but are the bears telling them themselves a story? That's probably not true. Like is our quarterback who's never been this guy consistently, who is playing at the top of the NFL for the first time in his career, is that sustainable?

12:25Derrik Klassen: Is this ecosystem sustainable or are the bears looking at it and saying, we have a young superstar quarterback who is going to be cheap for at least three more years. Like even if they do his extension this coming off season, that money won't matter for several more years. So you have Caleb cost controlled for the foreseeable future. You already outlined everybody that's under contract. And by the way, the bears looked like a perfectly respectable team for two of the three weeks that Caleb couldn't even play. This is, it is so much easier to believe that the bears are ready to take that step and be considered a super bowl contender than it was with the Colts last year.

13:06Derrik Klassen: And I have, and we have way more evidence that it's true as well, by the way. And so it is an overpay. It's an overpay that I feel so much more comfortable with for Chicago than I did for Indianapolis.

13:19Robert Mays: I want to just start with the bears part of this and the quarterback part of this and what type of team the bears are. we haven't really talked since last thursday and when i was talking to you guys in the moment after the game i hadn't really re-watched the game and derek can attest to this i was texting him at like one in the morning on thursday night after i went back and i watched it i think he's here like i i legitimately think he's here and it's we talked we joked about it last year dave where he was like Cyclops without the visor. He's got the visor on now. And it literally feels that way when you watch the way the ball moves and the accuracy.

13:58Robert Mays: It feels like he's shooting lasers all over the field. It looks insane. And the stuff that I said in the offseason when we did deep dives on him that he needs to get better at for him to reach his potential and for them to reach their potential. Ball placement, rhythm and timing, sense for space in the pocket. all of that stuff has gotten markedly better and so all the stuff he needed to improve he has and then you combine that with all-time great escapability he still does that and legitimately like a rogers like arm and when you put all of that together you get this guy and i think this guy has a chance to be one of those guys and so if you think you have that on offense moving forward and you think the coach is what he is, and you're one of those teams potentially over the next couple years, it becomes easier to justify something like this.

14:53Robert Mays: And maybe some of the other elements of that don't fall into place. Maybe me and them are telling themselves a story that's not true, but I don't think it's delusional to land in that place as you look at all of the different factors that lead into something like this.

15:09Derrik Klassen: We said this on Sunday night, I think, after the recap. I'm not going to say any names right now and step on an anthill, but the list of quarterbacks that I'd be willing to take over Caleb Williams today is really short. It's just not very many names.

15:26Robert Mays: I don't care about rankings. I don't care about top five. I don't care about top ten. I don't care about any of that. Is he one of those guys? He is like an inner circle player moving forward. And we need to see way more of it. And I think his play style has a volatility to it that maybe on Monday it might be up and down because his willingness and just desire to play out of structure and kind of push the limits of what he can accomplish and what he can't. It's not going to be a straight up line forever, but I do think that he has a chance to become one of those inner circle players. And if that's the case, and you feel like that leads to a level of offensive consistency and sustainability in concert with the coach, like we just don't see this very often.

16:03Robert Mays: We don't see a combination of these two things. And so if you think that leads to a level of just stability over the next couple of years, I think it allows you to talk yourself into something like this and overpaying for something like this a little bit easier. Okay.

16:19Derrik Klassen: So let's cut the shit. I believe we have an open seat at the table. I want to see it first. I want to see it first. It's hypothetical now.

16:27Robert Mays: It's, I want to see it first.

16:29Derrik Klassen: You just said that Caleb is that guy. And now they added Jeffrey Simmons to the team. I know it's hypothetical, but come on. Like you said Super Bowl when we started the stream. I was joking. Are you? Yes, I don't.

16:45Robert Mays: I don't see how things go for the Niners. Yeah, listen, I want to see it. They play Seattle on Monday. We don't have to do this now.

16:53Derrik Klassen: I mean, I doubt Simmons even plays against the Seahawks. That seems like too fast of a turnaround. Sure. Probably maybe not. But I just or if he does, it would be like a pitch count.

17:02Robert Mays: Even the way the offense looks. I don't. Let's just wait to see what happens on Monday. Or if you guys want to do it, I'm open to it. I don't know. What do you think?

17:09Dave Helman: Robert's afraid. Here's what I want to say about the quarterbacks, though. And like, are you in this tier? Blah, blah, blah. All this stuff with Daniel Jones in the Colts last year. The answer was obviously no. Yes. This was the first time we'd ever seen him play at this level. Shane Steichen is a good coach, but I don't even think he's up to the level of Ben Johnson either. Like they were clearly thought they had lightning in a bottle and were trying to save things for one year. With Caleb, think of the last two teams who have made huge two of the last two teams who have made huge trades like this.

17:35Dave Helman: the Packers and the Bengals is Caleb Williams in or around the tier as Joe Burrow and Jordan Love. I absolutely believe he is in or around that tier. So I have no qualms with them believing that they can go and do the same things that the Packers and the Bengals believe that they can go and do.

17:51Robert Mays: In all honesty, if you guys want to do it, I'm, I think it's fair. When you think about the, the, again, it's the same conversation we have about the Bengals on Sunday, the criteria, if it's if you have a top five offense and you have an acceptable defense for as weird as the Bears defense is and the ways that they get by the defense has been fine across the entire season like it's been more than good enough if the offense is going to be what it has been when the quarterback has been playing what do you think Derek I think I'd probably because I mean yeah it's

18:23Dave Helman: it's like them or New England but New England can earn it if you know there's a couple teams we can knock out like maybe the broncos at some point so like i i think i would probably put them in there

18:31Derrik Klassen: because i do believe the bears just showed us the example we're here for a good time not a long time

18:37Dave Helman: let's just do it and because here to me is the difference with some of the other teams that have because i think there's still fair reason to question how good the bears defense is even if i do believe in them on some extent but some of the other teams that don't have good defenses on here like the lions and the bills i i have a good amount of faith that dennis allen is a really really good football coach in a way that like we'll see from Jim Leonard, like maybe he can get there. And I think what we've seen from Kelvin Shepard and the lions this year has been more up and down Dennis Allen. I know he can throw some heat and he's already been doing that this year without many star players.

19:09Dave Helman: And you're telling me that he now has one of the best five or six NFL defensive players in the league and arguably the best defensive tackle. Yeah, man, like let's turn it up. Like they could do some really interesting stuff.

19:20Robert Mays: We've made some comparisons to this in the past. And I think it's very apt as we've watched the quarterback, or improve and rise to the level that he has. It's like Spagnuolo with the Chiefs. Like, I mean, it's like that to me is the best comparison. And what did the Chiefs do? They traded for Frank Clark. Like, they did this. Like, we've seen teams in this position do this. And so I do think that even if there are some personnel concerns on the back end, they're banged up a corner now. I do think that the game plan specific type stuff and what the coordinator can do to you in a one-game sample, even last year, even last year when the defense was worse personnel wise than it is right now, was able to throw some curveballs in the playoffs and gives the Rams a really hard time.

20:01Robert Mays: And so I'm with you. I think the Dennis Allen part of this is absolutely worth mentioning. Not only when you think about the quality of the defense right now, but what it can be for the rest of the season and potentially into the postseason.

20:12Derrik Klassen: Off the top of your head, do the rest of the Bears picks look okay? Like, do they have their twos and threes coming up right now?

20:19Robert Mays: Yes. They They have an extra five is the, from the ground extra trade. That's, that's the only thing they haven't like spent anything else. I don't think,

20:26Derrik Klassen: I mean, you will probably have some times over the next two years, assuming the bears don't win this super bowl where you kind of wish you had that one just because something is inevitably going to go wrong. But if you can hold on to your day two picks over this stretch, this can be fine. It's an overpay, But I think it's the calculated type that I'm okay with.

20:51Robert Mays: So let's talk about the overpay part of this from Tennessee's perspective. When I was talking to Popper about this yesterday, I said this. If you're the Titans, you need to be blown away by an offer in order to do something like this. Because you're in a position, you're in a very similar position to the one that the Jets were in last year. Where you just paid Sauce Gardner. It didn't happen that long ago. And so you have these, and obviously Jeffrey Simmons is older. but you just paid a guy$20 million as a signing bonus this summer to trade him. You need an offer that you cannot say no to. And so I think that's also part of the calculus with Ryan Poles.

21:28Robert Mays: It's like, you can't just be like, hey, I'll give you a one and some change because that's the market price for something like this. The Titans are just going to sit there and say, well, why would I do that? Like, why would I let him go for that? You're never that far away. And it's the same thing of Miles Garrett with the Browns. Like the only reason the Browns did that is because the return they got for it included Jared Verse. And they were like, they would be irresponsible to not do this. And that I think is an overpay. If you actually look at the price that the Rams gave up to do it. To get these sort of guys, sometimes you have to do it.

21:59Robert Mays: And I think that is what it required to push the Titans to a place where I'm sure Mike Borgansi is sitting there and he's like, I have to do it. Like it's two firsts and a fourth. Where, when are we going to compete? I have to do it. And so that is important context and just thinking to me when it comes to the overpay part of this. If you're in Tennessee's position, you just gave the guy an extension. You have to overpay to pry him away from them right now.

22:26Derrik Klassen: Borgonzi was probably agreeing to that price while stiff arming Salah from trying to hang up the phone. Yes, like this.

22:36Dave Helman: But like, yeah, if you're from the Titans like perspective, it's like you are realistically not going to be a we expect to like make a deep run in the playoffs sort of team for like two seasons from now. And by then he's going to be on the last year of his deal. He's going to be like 31 years old. Like it just doesn't make as much sense for you. Whereas like this was clearly a team that maybe they thought this year would go a little bit better and that they would be a little bit more competitive. and maybe they feel like they had a team that could win eight or nine games and to be like, OK, maybe next year we can do it.

23:06Dave Helman: But this year just has not gone their way. And they are clearly further away than they probably wanted to have been. So I don't see why you wouldn't just reload, take your picks, do what you can with them. And like I know that I just said, like, how often do you hit on these late, you know, these late 20s first round picks? But if you're in the Titans perspective, it's like, well, now we can like wheel and deal those and not have to worry about that being our only first round pick. We have our picket second, third overall or whatever, and we can use this other piece of ammo to maybe we acquire another second round pick or maybe we move up a little bit because we want to pick whoever's at 14 and get another blue chip player.

23:39Dave Helman: Like it just gives them a lot more flexibility for what they want to do as a team moving forward.

23:43Robert Mays: And who knows what that 2028 first to look like? Maybe Caleb misses half of next season. That's the that's the danger of making these sorts of trades. And if you're the Titans and this is something, again, I brought up with Popper yesterday. Your willingness to do this, I think, is at least in part. rooted in whether you think Cam Ward is the guy. And if you have any hesitation that he is, or any doubts that he is, giving yourself two first round picks next year and the year after that to potentially find a quarterback, I think you almost owe it to yourself to make a trade like this if you are not confident that he is your quarterback of the future.

24:19Robert Mays: And right now, I think it'd be reasonable to look at what has happened and have serious doubts about that, even if you account for all the reasons that he has struggled. Sad, but true.

24:30Dave Helman: And like, I think where they're at, like with the amount of picks that they're going to have, like if they want to treat it like this year, they spend two of those first round picks. If they feel good about the players on offensive players and being like, we are going to give every opportunity for this thing to be better. And if it's not, then screw it. We take the quarterback next year. Like, I don't know how they want to handle it, but like they do have, I think, options to do that. But Beller is reminding us that Jeffrey Simmons and Montez Sweat were Mississippi State teammates together.

25:01Derrik Klassen: And believe me, Beller, as an LSU fan, I didn't need the reminder. I've never felt more helpless than trying to watch my team block Montez Sweat and Jeffrey Simmons at the same time. It's disgusting. And so now they get to play together again. Good for them.

25:19Robert Mays: the last button I'll put on this is that it is absolutely an aggressive risky decision there is a ton of risk in doing this it's a question of whether you're willing to incur the risk and I think for a lot of the reasons that we laid out and just where this team is right now yeah I can understand being willing to incur the risk and I think I'm in a place where I'm willing to do it too.

25:43Dave Helman: You have to take some sort of risk to be a Super Bowl team and it can look very different for a bunch of different teams. But last year, the Seahawks made the bet that with a Super Bowl caliber defense that Sam freaking Darnold could win them the Super Bowl and it worked. And it's just like, obviously, this is a very different kind of bet that the Bears are trying to make. But it's the kind of stuff that you have to do if you really believe that you are one of those six or seven or eight teams that can really go and do it.

26:11Derrik Klassen: I just really hope I think of, I think of all of the NFC North teams as these good, but flawed outfits. And so, I mean, the Packers did the Micah trade and they'll be waiting on Micah to come back any day now. And now the bears have joined the fray. I don't know what to do with the Vikings. We'll talk about that on the preview show this week, but I need Brad Holmes to take this personally and go hunting for a piece for the lions. Like let's just turn, let's turn this into an arms race in the NFC North. I'm here for it. All right.

26:44Robert Mays: That is all we've got for right now. Like Dave mentioned, we will be doing the preview show a little bit later today. That will be available for you on YouTube on Friday at noon, be available on your podcast feed overnight. If you're watching this on YouTube, which this is probably the only place you're watching it, please like subscribe, do all that great stuff. Plenty more to come on the athletic football show this week for now. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon.

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