The breakout players we're counting on for the 2026 season

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0:32Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Talking about breakout players today, but instead of just listing guys off, I wanted to add a little bit of drama and a little bit of stakes to it. We're going to do a draft. We're going to do a, we did an eight-round draft, so 24 players overall. Tried to build the best team you could of likely breakout candidates. Really enjoyed this. Talked about probably upwards of like 30 players. Come some positions that have a lot of potential options. I talked about a decent amount of rookies in the middle rounds from last year that I really liked.

1:06Robert Mays: So that's what we did today. Eight round breakout player draft with me, Dave and Derek. Let's get to that conversation right now.

1:25Robert Mays: I'm very excited about today's show. It's been building all week. Putting together a list of players was fun. Going over the rules was fun. We're going to talk about breakout players today, David, but we're going to do it in a slightly different way than we have done in the past.

1:39Derrik Klassen: We said we were going to do more drafts this offseason, so here we are. We're doing a breakout players draft.

1:45Robert Mays: The goal here is just to build the most promising team of breakout players that you possibly can. For some of the other drafts that we're going to do over the next month or so, there actually are ways to measure the quality of the teams that we come away with. I guess this would be like your collective pro bowls among your breakout players. If you get the most, you win. But there's a chance that there's none of them. So Derek, I don't think there's an actual way outside of a listener vote, which we absolutely will do to determine who has the best team here. But we still felt like we would give it some stakes anyway.

2:18Dave Helman: It's definitely the hardest to measure because it's it's yeah, it's like what does a breakout even mean? Like a breakout for one tier of player, like the tier jump might just be from like average to good. But there might be other players in here where the breakout is like kind of good to like, OK, he's knocking on the doors of all pros. Like what we're measuring, I think, is a little bit more fluid than some of these other ones.

2:37Robert Mays: So we're trying to put some limits on that. Before we dig into the actual draft, let's talk about the ground rules that we have set up so far. As of right now, there are two hard and fast rules. One, you can never have made a Pro Bowl and be a part of the breakout player draft. You are off the table if you have ever made the Pro Bowl. And now 600 guys a year make the Pro Bowl, so it does limit the roster a little bit. Two, in your rookie season, you cannot have made the PFWA All-Rookie team. I feel like that was a way to just eliminate some of the obvious choices. A couple guys this year that we will not talk about as part of this draft because of that.

3:14Robert Mays: armand membu kelvin banks zach frazier was on the all rookie team two years ago nikki minwari was on the all rookie team last year xavier watts so if there's a player you don't hear and you're like man how did you guys miss that guy go check out the pwa pfwa all rookie teams from the last couple

3:33Derrik Klassen: years there were some in there that really broke my heart it is a tough one there were a couple really heartbreaking ones kelvin banks broke my heart i was really excited about potentially

3:40Robert Mays: putting Zach Frazier on there. And I was like, God damn it.

3:42Dave Helman: The one for me that I was like, man, I like he had a good rookie season, but I didn't think he would have been on it. Evan Williams for the Packers was when I was like, really eyeing. And then I looked and he was on the team and I was like, damn it, man.

3:53Robert Mays: So all those guys are off the board. The other limit that we're going to try to place on this, this one's much more fluid. It's kind of an eye test gut feeling thing. But if somebody recommends or drafts a player that we just collectively think is too good, The other two of us can raise a hand and object to that player being too good. And then it comes down to a vote. If the other two guys both agree that the player suggested or drafted is too good, then you have to transition to a different player. Like Colston Loveland did not make the all rookie team last year, and he has not made the Pro Bowl.

4:29Robert Mays: Colston Loveland is officially too good for this exercise. Certainly on this show, Colston Loveland is too good. So that's what we're trying to do in order to, like Derek said there's no hard and fast rules about what a breakout player is we're trying to construct at least some set of criteria in order to keep us all playing in generally the same area

4:49Dave Helman: here I'll tell you right now though I'm going to push the boundaries a little bit I'm shocked that

4:54Robert Mays: you are that's the least surprising part of this if they haven't hit the hard and fast rules I'm going to push the boundaries a little bit we had a riveting 100 yard dash electronic 100 yard dash to set up the draft over here. Not a real one.

5:06Derrik Klassen: That is important. No, a digital one.

5:08Robert Mays: A digital 100-yard draft on the computer. We had a real one we had in some sort of YouTube channel. There's already me running the 100-yard dash on the YouTube channel. I'm not sure I'll ever do that again as I get older and older and older. Dave won. Derek is second, and I am picking third. Like, in all drafts we do on the show, we are not doing a snake draft because we don't feel like that lends to the quality of the conversation. I will say we're not we're not going to do today. We didn't talk about it. This idea of who suggested this, where you've swept, you swap the order. How many rounds in?

5:41Derrik Klassen: Three third round reversal. It's like a pretty common thing. You think? Yeah. So you go snake for the first two. And then the last pick gets to go pick first in the third round. And then it's snake the rest of the way.

5:51Robert Mays: Third round reversal is what you call it. I don't like that if it's snake at any point. So we'll talk about that. But we'll figure out maybe a better way to do this. We're not going to do it today. We're just going to drive straight through. And I have the last pick. So I'm the one that just gets screwed here anyway.

6:04Derrik Klassen: I feel like having the first pick, it doesn't screw you, obviously, but it's a weird place to be with such a nebulous exercise. That is true. That is true. You're trying to find the best possible player who doesn't break the rules of the exercise, which was stressful for me.

6:18Robert Mays: There were two guys that really did stick out to me as like the obvious choices. And that's why me having the third pick was a little bit frustrating. I'm curious if your choice here is either of the two players that I'm thinking about. Well, you're on the board.

6:30Derrik Klassen: You're on the clock right now. Because I because this is so nebulous, I'm going to start with a question, but I'll leave it up to y 'all. Is my king, my lord and savior, Byron Murphy, the second too good? I think he is. Yeah, I think definitely. Unquestionably. He doesn't meet any of those parameters. He's never been a pro bowler. He's never been on the all rookie team. I agree with you.

6:51Robert Mays: I had his own segment on this show at one point last month. He is too good to be in the breakout player draft.

6:57Derrik Klassen: I just wanted to see if I could get away with it. I didn't think I would. So that's not surprising. My next one, another guy who maybe not quite as good as Byron Murphy, but I think he fits into this nebulous area. Is Paris Johnson too good for this? I don't think so. I think you can draft Paris Johnson. If I can draft Paris Johnson, that's who I will make my first pick. Okay. I think he's right there on the border. I mean, he would have been all rookie if he had played left tackle as a rookie. Like, he was a right tackle in 2023. I think that's probably why he doesn't get it. Cause Darnell Wright was all rookie that year.

7:32Derrik Klassen: I think if he played left tackle all the way through, there's a good chance he's ineligible. So I'm going to take advantage of that loophole. He's, I know he's dealt with injuries at times. And I don't know if, you know, the news right now is that he's seeking$40 million a year. I'll be curious to see how that goes for him, but he is a young continuing to ascend left tackle and not to give too much away, but looking through this, I was like, you know, Arizona Cardinals. We got some exciting young pieces out here. The whole point is that they better.

8:03Robert Mays: They've had 10 ,000 draft picks the last three years. If they don't have any young, exciting pieces, they're in trouble.

8:08Derrik Klassen: I think Paris Johnson occupies a unique lane of like, he's eligible for something like this, but it is so much more of a known commodity than some of these guys. A lot of these guys, it's like, well, he's played 500 snaps, but I liked it. Or he's in year two. What's this going to look like? I mean, this guy, he's a three-year starter. He's played on both sides of the line. He's played at a Pro Bowl level at times during his career, even if he's never been named a Pro Bowler. So if he's eligible, I feel pretty good about that pick.

8:36Robert Mays: Is there a reason you think this year is the year that he takes a significant step forward to that would actually qualify as a breakout

8:43Derrik Klassen: in the way that we're trying to talk about it? I mean, I think that depends on how you classify breakout, because if I had to guess, the Cardinals are not going to have the type of season where he gets recognized for his hard work.

8:53Robert Mays: It's more about, I think, a player's own individual play is how I was bucketing this. I don't think it's necessarily about broader appreciation or accolades or recognition.

9:04Derrik Klassen: I think I would lean up toward time on task. I mean, it's year four. He just turned 25 a couple of weeks ago. He's entering into like the prime of his career rather than what you might classify as being a young player. Continuity, playing at the same position for what will now be his third season. Hopefully he avoids injuries. And if he if he manages to do all of that, I'd like to at least think he could get a Pro Bowl nod. But even still, even if that doesn't happen, if he has a good season, I think he would be cementing himself as like the best left tackle that nobody wants to talk about because he plays for what's probably not going to be a very good team.

9:42Robert Mays: And there's also talking about guys who have a lot at stake heading into the year over the next couple of weeks here as we start turning our eye to preview content. He is eligible for a contract extension. Like if he plays well this year, then maybe we're talking about where he fits in the broader hierarchy of how those tackles are getting paid. What do you think about Paris Johnson here with the first pick, Derek?

10:02Dave Helman: So I think this one, too, is like a little bit of a stylistic choice, because I think when I was doing this, there are a lot of good young tackles, actually. Like, I think a number of guys are going to come off of the board here. I would Paris Johnson, to me, does feel like the cleanest pass protector of the bunch. And I think especially if the Cardinals are going to be moving into a new era where obviously this year, I don't think quarterback matters. but they're trying to prove that next year the quarterback situation is going to be really good for them and so he's a player where because he's young because he's still ascending you can you can get me there on him getting a little bit stronger this year next year all that sort of thing so I had a number of tackles here I think they're I'm tipping my hand a little bit but there are one or two I'm going to try to see if I can get in as well at some point Paris Johnson I I don't

10:45Robert Mays: think it's I think it's okay that you took him what I will say is the players on my list are not of that profile where they're like fourth year guys you expect you're trying to buy low and sell this is more so guys that have are early in their careers have we've seen more flashes from them they haven't necessarily been full-time players that's where my list mostly resides but I think putting like a snap count limit on it makes it less fun and it there are guys that even if they've played a while, you can still talk yourself into them taking a big step forward.

11:19Derrik Klassen: I probably take this a little bit too literally at times, but again, I almost feel like there's a responsibility with making the number one overall pick where you're like, I'm trying to avoid a bust Paris Johnson. That's what the Cardinals are doing. He doesn't get any better.

11:33Robert Mays: That is a bust. Even if he's a decent player at the very least, this is about the Delta of what they were last year and

11:38Derrik Klassen: what they're going to be next year. Even if he doesn't get better, I don't think you would call that a bust like if paris johnson was your left tackle for the next like six to eight years i think

11:46Robert Mays: you'd feel fine that's not what i'm saying i'm saying that in this exercise the quality of the draft pick here is not about the quality of the player it's about how much better is the player next year than he has been at this to this point in his career but would you rather let's say paris

11:59Derrik Klassen: johnson doesn't improve at all and like i'll tip my hand i don't care it's a fantasy draft in july there's another guy on the arizona cardinals that i would really really like to take but it's a terrifyingly small sample size. And what if it doesn't pan out at all? I think that's true to the spirit of the exercise. That is what I'm, that's what I'm trying to avoid the guy where it's like, wow, he never did anything again. I'm trying to hit 600 foot home runs this entire, this entire draft. There's no, there's no wrong approach in a fake draft. I suppose.

12:27Robert Mays: Where are you at Derek? Number two pick. What do you got for me?

12:30Dave Helman: See, this makes me think that my entire tier one of players are, are going to be too good. Well, only one way to find out the, The first name I have, because he did not play a lot of last year because he was injured, is O'Marion Hampton. He did not. He's not too good. He's another player on my board. That's perfect. He, I think he is so sick. Like he, him and Ashton Gentry both had seasons where constantly getting smacked at or behind the line of scrimmage. But the three times a game they got any room to run, you were like, oh, holy shit. That's what a first round running back looks like. Like O'Marion Hampton has the size.

13:04Dave Helman: He has the speed. he's a very agile player for a guy who is his size like when Javante Williams was coming out of the draft and especially early in his career like that was a big thing with him but I think Hampton's like vision and speed compared to a guy like Javante Williams just puts him on a completely different level he's truly a three down player like he he got like uh he got like five or six targets almost every game that he played like he's a guy who I think he's just going to be an extremely useful player for them and I know with the Chargers there's some excitement about like keaton mitchell coming into the fold but i i just think that omeron hampton's gonna get like 280 touches and just be an absolute monster for this team yeah you no push back here he was

13:43Robert Mays: number he was the number two guy that i put on my list i he's not too good he had 545 rushing yards last year on 124 carries i think there is a little bit of a cheat code here of guys that got hurt and so it's easier to peg them as breakouts even though we saw them be good there's gonna be a couple of those on here i think yeah but i think he's a great pick some of the stats that i had pulled just in case he was available when I'd pick third. Among backs at least 100 carries last year, seventh in percentage of his rushes that went over expectation per next gen, fourth in missed tackles force percentage right behind Kenneth Walker.

14:15Robert Mays: He had an above average rushing success rate last year. O'Marrion Hampton did. On the Chargers. In that situation.

14:21Dave Helman: He's, it's, that's the thing with him. I think putting him next to Kenneth Walker is actually really funny because the, the rub with Kenneth Walker is that like, if you're not blocking well for him, he's probably not going to help you out. And he's not really going to save some runs. And Marion Hampton can save runs. He has like, not quite to the B. John Robinson level, but like he has the ability to save runs for you and just churn out four yards when one was there, but he also can hit home runs. Like I think he's going to be so, so good for the chargers. I totally agree.

14:49Robert Mays: And if they're going to be a little bit, if they're going to be under center a little bit more with that run game and the dolphins weren't necessarily, But I think where Mike McDaniel comes from, I could see them playing under center a little bit more than the Chargers did last year, who are mostly a gun team because that's what Greg Roman had been doing. That's just there's 10 ,000 little bits of curiosity about what are the Chargers going to look like this year? That's just a small one. Like how much more under center do we see from them? But I'm 100 percent with you. I mean, I went back and watched a good portion of his touches this morning just to kind of refresh.

15:19Robert Mays: Like, what did he actually look like? What were some of the moments last year? that touchdown he scores against the giants where he's just out the gate 55 yards for as big as he is some of the lateral explosion that you saw on some of those runs where he needed to make somebody miss two yards deep in the backfield i'm extremely excited about what omerian hampton could be in the

15:37Derrik Klassen: chargers offense i would also say in my opinion the list of running backs who qualify for this exercise is not super super long no i mean jenty's probably jenty feels cheap well jenty made the

15:49Dave Helman: pick just kind of like a jenty feels cheap i think he made the rookie team didn't he it was

15:54Robert Mays: him and travion henderson i think that's that's right that's right there are two running backs on the all rookie team if you look at the pwva pfwa rookie team there are two running backs and

16:02Dave Helman: two receivers in the starting lineup it's really it's really funny the way that it works

16:08Robert Mays: um all right so we have paris johnson omerian hampton who was my second player my first player who i'm i'm thrilled to get here i know i know who this is gonna be it's walter

16:18Derrik Klassen: Oh, okay.

16:20Robert Mays: All right.

16:20Derrik Klassen: I don't know who it was going to be. That is 600. I thought I might have him.

16:24Robert Mays: I mean, what he did last year in very, very limited time. You just, his, like, I think it was his first or second play of the season. He makes a tackle two yards deep in the backfield against the Cowboys. You just see it. I mean, this is a guy that if he hadn't gotten hurt last year, he probably would be ineligible for this exercise because we would think he's too good. But everything that made him appealing as a college prospect, you saw that with him in the very limited amount of snaps he got. And to be able to do that while being hurt for all, essentially all of your rookie, it was, he got hurt before training camp, that calf injury, and still came back.

17:02Robert Mays: And as soon as we saw him, looked like an impactful player. I believe he had 15 pressures on 99 pass rush snaps last year per PFF. And so you look at that rate and just the disruption, the explosion, eye test, early production, pedigree, and the injury that he's coming off is only a meniscus tear. It's not like he was an ACL. It wasn't an Achilles. He should be ready for training camp. And so I think there's a chance that Walter Nolan is just like a supernova of like a second year player with how talented he is. So he was atop my board for that reason.

17:35Derrik Klassen: PFF had him at a 13 % win rate on his pass rush attempts, which I believe among rookies only trailed Abdul Carter and Josiah Stewart. And I mean, the freaks that Josiah Stewart's working with over there. I mean, that contributes to that. Compare that to what I mean, I know Josh Sweat had a nice season for Arizona, but stark differences between what you're working with. I debated taking Walter Nolan one overall. And ultimately, the sample size and the injuries scared me off. But I said on the on the 25 and under player draft, I said, I'm looking for something rare that is really, really hard to find.

18:10Derrik Klassen: And that drew me toward interior defensive line. So I love the thought process. I thought maybe the injury history and the fact that what we saw him play six games might scare you all off, but clearly not. And I can't say I blame you. My biggest issue with him in college is that you just didn't see it often enough.

18:27Robert Mays: Like the flashes and the really high rare moments were there. And I think that's why he was drafted as high as he was. For me, it was one of those, well, why isn't he dominating games if we can see this level of play? And you watched him as a rookie and it showed up pretty consistently, like the motor and just how often he was impacting plays or just you just saw it like the effort consistently from play to play. I just am left with not that many questions other than the injury stuff. And for something like this injury, that doesn't matter to me. Like I'm taking big swings.

18:57Dave Helman: Yeah, and you're taking big swings, which I think too, yeah, if you're really going for what is the delta between what we think of them now versus what it could be in 25, because of the explosiveness, he could be like early Quinan Williams if it all really comes together for him. And this also, if you're gaming out the exercise a little bit, not that many interior defensive linemen that I had, maybe one or two others I'd be interested in, but Nolan in terms of pure explosive abilities, he's up there.

19:23Robert Mays: There's some other interior defensive linemen you can maybe take a little bit later. at the end yeah yeah it's more about just becoming more consistent and more consistent presence within their defense rather than i think this guy's going to be a star and i think that speaks to the types of interior defensive linemen that have been drafted over the last few years like it just hasn't really been a great draft for those are like a great stretch for those sorts of players when it comes to like star level talent but i think he is one of those guys with star level talent all right let's get to the second round here dave you are up who is your second pick

19:57Derrik Klassen: i thought i might be able to get walter nolan at four and you sniped him which is fine i'll just take the guy that i thought you were going to take at three and that's luther burden that is who i was going to take a three if walter nolan whoa yeah i'll i'll take luther burden it's definitely a projection but my guy had 2.7 yards per route run last year which is the fourth highest dating back over sorry the fourth highest in the NFL last year among all players and it's the best among rookies since AJ Brown's rookie year I mean yeah like you can't guarantee that it's going to continue that way but that's a trend that I'm completely down to buy in on especially DJ Moore is out of Chicago the snaps are there the opportunities are there the quarterback is there the coach is there even even with the emphasis that the bears are going to put on running the ball there's all the potential in the world that this guy blows up in year two yes yeah i mean i honestly thought you would take him at three i'm not like i'm not arguing with you

20:59Robert Mays: there are so many signifiers of a potential just nuclear season from luther burton in year two The rate stats, like you just said, are fantastic. The number that I had looked at, I think he was tied for seventh in yards per route run last year per PFF with Drake London. Oh, I think I used True Media. If you go with like a different, maybe it was a different like minimum or whatever. But he was tied for seventh in yards per route run with Drake London last year per PFF. In the back half of the season, he ranked 16th among all receivers in targets per route run. So it's not even a bit of guesswork when it comes to the volume and his attention within the offense.

21:37Robert Mays: that 16th ranking wedged him right between essentially cd lamb and george pickens it was ahead of nico collins it was ahead of drake london and so we've seen him be a really really prominent member of this offense and the fact that that happened as the offense was getting healthier and better i just think he's going to be a heavily featured piece derrick of what the bears want to do

21:58Dave Helman: next year i think this is an interesting one because i like is he even going to be the most featured pass catcher like to me I wonder if he's even going to be the first or even second most featured pass catcher on the team and that I think was where I had a little bit of an issue with him I will also admit I did not love Luther Burden coming out of college and so I think getting to like the jump that he's going to take I think takes a little bit more like I want to see it to believe it so I actually did not have him as high on my board I think that I understand what

22:29Robert Mays: you're saying and how those receivers shake out I think is a question a lot of fantasy players are going to be asking themselves over the next month, who's going to get a lot of that work? And the only complication, my response to that would be, we saw him get more work than any of those other receivers in the back half of the season. Like, again, I just, I just spit that out. He was 16th among all receivers. Adunze was also hurt in the back half of the season. So how much that affects it? Because early in the year, when Burden was more of a bit player, Adunze was getting a really healthy amount of the overall work, how that shakes out if both of them are healthy.

23:02Robert Mays: I question that. But I still think in that offense, you're only going to have two receivers that are heavily featured. Like their third receiver right now is Kalief Raymond, who God love him. Like this is going to be a 12 and 13 personnel offense. And we've seen consistently that if you have those multiple tight ends on the field, it consolidates the targets among the receivers that are playing a lot. So he's already been a featured player. And I think the environment overall is going to be one where he gets thrown the ball a lot. And you combine that with the talent that he's clearly shown. I think that there's a chance he has a monster, monster season.

23:37Derrik Klassen: I think there is something to the idea that, I mean, Roma Dunze is right there. I mean, somebody might pick Roma Dunze in this exercise. He certainly qualifies.

23:45Robert Mays: He's more Derek's flavor.

23:46Derrik Klassen: Well, of course he is. There is an element of like Andy in Toy Story, like dropping Woody for Buzz Lightyear. Like I'm going to take the exciting second year guy instead of the year three guy who hasn't quite put it together yet. But I mean, the numbers back what I'm saying about Burden and then just call it the eye test. But like the suddenness and the explosiveness that that guy has is it's so exciting.

24:12Robert Mays: He's unique. I in trying to compare him to someone, it's kind of hard. Like he's kind of a mix between like the way that the Ravens have used a flowers over the last couple of years with the way the Chiefs have used Rasheed Rice over the last couple years. Like, there's a little bit, and this to me was the best case scenario for him coming out of college. There's a little bit of like the way that Brandon Ayuk moved early in his career. Like, there's just, there is a lot happening in Luther Burden's profile and skillset as a player where I don't know exactly what the final form looks like, but I think I'm willing to bet on every little nugget and flash that I've seen.

24:49Dave Helman: Ayuk is a good one, because in my mind, he's not one for one with Jamison Williams, but that is more the role that he is playing. But he is a little bit thicker than that. And he does have a little bit more to him than a guy like Jamison Williams does. I think I'm just at the point where like, I do want to see it a little bit first.

25:03Robert Mays: The best case scenario, I think Jamison Williams is the perfect name to mention. We talked about this a little bit with when we talked about Kay Williams last week. I think some of the ball placement on some of these crossing routes and making sure that you're providing yak opportunities for these guys, Burden is the guy you have in mind. Like there is a chance if four or five of those are maybe a little bit more precise and hit him in stride this year, he's housing those plays. Like we've seen his ability to do that. And then you combine it with the scheme touch stuff and like what he can do on screens.

25:33Robert Mays: And he just he is a dynamic player and he is the type of guy I'm willing to bet on in something like this. All right. So Luther Burden at number four. Derek, you are up at number five. What do you got?

25:43Dave Helman: Oh, I'm extremely excited to get this player. I thought maybe he would go. right tackle for the Cincinnati Bengals and Marius Mims the most Derek of all time that dude is a monster he I think we've talked a lot about like the collective growth and improvement of the Cincinnati Bengals offensive line a lot of that had to do with like you know Orlando Brown coming in and drafting Dylan Fairchild last year but Mims I think because there was a lot like he had a lot of hype going into his rookie preseason or like he had played during well during the preseason he ends up getting hurt it ended up being like kind of a weird season for him he comes back this year and I thought by the end of last year he was just mashing people um and obviously there are like there are one or two moments maybe in pass protection where you're like ah he's not as quick-footed as you would want still for a big guy I think the length is incredible and he does move really well and so he's just a player where I think it's going to continue to get better and he's already one of the best people movers in the league um like he fits exactly what they want to do so like I there are again a couple of tackles here that I would have considered but I think Mims is probably if we're doing the the pick your flavor he's the one that I want to go with

26:52Robert Mays: we talked about this when we discussed the Bengals last week I also feel like them transitioning some of the schematic stuff allows the offensive linemen to shine in a way that they couldn't before when you're running like duo and inside zone 25 times a game it's kind of just like a massive humanity in there, like moving people two or three yards on double teams. I think he's one of the guys that could be featured in a way as a run blocker as they change and diversify that he just wasn't able to be featured last year. So the idea of Amarius Mims being this year's Darnell Wright would not be that surprising to me.

27:27Robert Mays: And so I think him being the pick here, I completely understand. He was absolutely on my short list of tackles. what i'll say this just another one of my kind of rules that is going to be a through line between both the guys i picked i did not go with a lot of first round picks over the last couple years i feel like just too boring it's just a little bit cheap like ah it's just a little bit cheap i'm like i will there are a couple exceptions i will go with but i wanted to try to get some guys that were picked a little bit deeper in the draft as a way to maybe highlight some guys that we don't maybe aren't as obvious of breakout candidates he's hating on your strategy i'm not it's a great strategy.

28:03Robert Mays: Amarius Mims should go this high in an exercise like that. Luther Burden was like the 38th pick in the draft. It's not that exciting. My next guy, it was a little bit, was picked a little bit later. And he was, when we started building, I started building my list and we were thinking about doing this exercise. He was one of the first players I thought of. I'm going to go with Noel Williams from the Chiefs. Son of a ****.

28:25Dave Helman: Good last year. Yes, that's awesome.

28:27Derrik Klassen: You're taking all the guys I like. I just thought I thought I'd be able to get him later. I thought I'd be able to get a third round pick who's played 500 snaps a little bit later in the draft. He was, I had him probably higher

28:37Robert Mays: than I would have originally thought because I wanted to avoid that. I wanted to come away with him as part of this. I think he's just really good right now. I was so impressed with him last year. I mean, talk about again, Malter Nolan's second play was a TFL of like two yards deep in the backfield against the Cowboys. I think Noah Williams like third or fourth snap as an NFL player was against the Eagles and it was third and eight. And he is just in Devante Smith's hip pocket 25 yards down the field for a PBU. And when he was in the game last year for the Chiefs, he was not a full time player.

29:12Robert Mays: He came in as like a rotational piece as their third outside corner. And I just felt like the defense was so much scarier on the back end last year when he was that other outside corner and he was getting those opportunities. And so now you have Monster Delane and potentially him on the outside this year with Christian Fulton, I think, sliding into that third spot. And I think that becomes really exciting because Williams has real juice as a man coverage guy. Like he can just line up and play man coverage. He has physicality, the movement skills. But the thing that really jumped out to me when I went back and watched a little bit this morning, his awareness and zone coverage is also pretty damn good.

29:52Robert Mays: Like he understands when he's supposed to be sinking into certain routes. The recognition is much better than you might expect for a third round rookie. So I am really looking forward to what he can be in year two within that defense. And I think that group with him and Delane, we could be talking about a corner unit in Kansas city that feels dramatically different than maybe we might expect after they moved on from two guys that got paid a lot of money this spring.

30:16Dave Helman: Yeah. Not even just better, like stylistically extremely different, like McDuffie runs with people, but he's more of a zone like play top down click and close on stuff jaylen watson i think was kind of that um they like to blitz those guys a lot not that like no williams and mansard delane can't do that but when you're as good of man cover guys as those guys are why would you blitz them why not just have them run man to man and so like i i do love that they're going because i know we imagine now spags is like a lot of the move stuff around and blitz and do all this crazy stuff when he was like with the giants at previous stops they were just running press man and beating the shit out

30:48Robert Mays: of everybody and I think he was what the Super Bowl looked like against the Niners think about when they felt scariest is when they were able to play like that and so I think people are going to talk about Delane giving them that sort of gear again I think Noel Williams also has his own contributions to them being able to play like that so I was he was one of the first guys I thought of when we were going to do this and so I'm very excited to get him here I watched him play the

31:12Derrik Klassen: Chargers this morning the game where Patrick Mahomes got hurt and it was like one of his first games if not his first game starting and it was a game like he got got a little bit in that game like he gave up a touchdown Trey Harris caught a long ball over him and even still I came away so impressed with his physicality and his confidence and his athleticism and the fact that they trusted him to just press up on Trey Harris throughout the game and play physical with him in like like I said game one or two as a starter in the NFL even a game where statistically maybe not his best game i thought was really impressive and then the chiefs aspect of this too is such a vote of confidence like if if spags is willing to roll with this guy from day one obviously they spent a big draft pick on a corner but no williams you would assume is going to win that job um that says volumes about what a team that's developed a lot of good dps thinks about him so like i said i thought i'd be able to get him at like nine or twelve or something and he's gone at six.

32:13Robert Mays: I'm very happy. All right, let's take our first quick break and then Dave will be up again in round three.

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34:31Derrik Klassen: All right, Dave, you're up. Round three. A couple options I had here. to like I could go high floor again like I did with Paris Johnson, but that doesn't feel as fun. I do. I have a couple of those guys in mind. Maybe I can hold on and wait. So I'm just going to I'm going to go with a fun guy that I bet both of y 'all have your eye on. At the very least, you'll have your eye on somebody on this team. But he plays in a very talent heavy and experience heavy secondary. And he's going to benefit from a coaching hire, I think, which makes him a very exciting guy to watch in year two. And that would be Malachi Starks.

35:14Robert Mays: I know. He was literally would have been my next pick.

35:17Derrik Klassen: I was like, he would have been it. He was on my list. You can have the other Raven if you want him. He was on my list. I mean, I just spelled it out right there. I mean, Jesse Minner going to Baltimore. what he does with his safeties, what safeties have benefited from his presence. And then, you know, we said this last year, and Starks got pressed into a job that we weren't expecting him to have because of the Ardarius Washington injury. But second half of the season, he really came on. I went back and watched a couple of his games. Just, I love his instincts are so good. Like for a rookie, he seems to always know where he's supposed to be and where the ball is going to be.

35:57Derrik Klassen: He very rarely looks surprised or out of position. And again, this is assuming relatively good health. This is a secondary where he is going to have a lot of help to just go make plays and find the football. And so you combine that with Jesse Minner being the one calling it. I'm sky high on what he could be. Derek, how are you feeling over there?

36:20Dave Helman: Devastated. I wanted him. He is. I mean, I echo everything that Dave just said. I think he is such a good player. I think he's, you know, if we're talking like the elite, elite safeties of the league, he probably isn't quite there athletically, but like mentally and in terms of tackling and just like he to me is one of those true fix it all type of safeties. Like I think Jesse Bates at his best is kind of this, like maybe not the most athletically like holy shit type of safety, but he's just always around the ball and always making the right play, always taking the right angles. Like I just, he can play in the box.

36:50Dave Helman: He can play a little bit deep. Like I'm just, I think in a system that puts a lot on their safeties, this is the exact type of player that you need and so I'm with Dave like I'm so excited about what he's going to look

37:01Robert Mays: like next year I thought it was so telling that even after Elohi Gilman gets there and you know Gilman is one of those high floor won't give up a ton of explosive plays like but when they were in single high looks it was often Malachi Starks as the post safety and so they trusted him to be that guy in single high he was a really good tackler he's a willing tackler and so he's a very well-rounded player and a multi-faceted safety in a world where it's really important to have those guys who can do a little bit of everything and so i'm i totally get this he was on my list uh i'm not as upset as derek but i get why you're going this direction here dave all right so malachi starks at seven derek you're up at eight who you got oh this is tough i think

37:45Dave Helman: now i'm trying to recalibrate like again like what is the right kind of player to pick i think i'm going to go with one guy who has actually been in the league for a little bit and i think similar to what dave is saying with paris johnson is kind of trying to make the jump from like above average maybe good to like i think that he can be great yaya diaby for the tampa bay bucks he's on my list yep i like that pick i'm how i'm willing to hear that you're like 25 that's

38:14Robert Mays: if you're 25 robert has no time i wonder if yaya diaby is a little bit too good for this

38:19Dave Helman: He might be. He's never had more than seven and a half sacks in a season. He's obviously better than the sack numbers would suggest. And that is kind of the point that I'm trying to make.

38:27Derrik Klassen: But I mean, he's a two year starter, but he's got. Yeah, he's got 19 career sacks in three years. He's he has no postseason. I think he fits. I think he fits.

38:39Dave Helman: This is the problem with not defining like what a breakout means, because some of them are going from like, yeah, they kind of were playing to good like Noel Williams. this like I truly think that he can have like a 13 sack season is kind of what I'm trying to say

38:51Derrik Klassen: here because I do think Derek believing in the Bucs instead of me this is a fun twist so I think

38:57Dave Helman: it's that the rest of the team around him is going to be better and I do think that he's going to take a jump and I think that he's gotten better every single year that he's played and the snap counts have proven that his higher uh his higher pressure rates have proven that um what I would say about him is especially last year and even the year before really they just can't cover anybody so with him being a little bit more of like a power style player and needing like a half second more than some of these other just like a brian burn speed rusher to immediately get to the quarterback i think the fact that i think the secondary is going to be improved like they're going to be healthier on the back end i kind of like where the corners are going i think you add that on top of like they've improved their linebacker play it should not be as feeble of a defense you give that to a guy who has this level of power i don't think he's going to be jared verse but i think he can be like 92 of jared verse and i think that that is like a player who is pretty consistently pro bowl if he's able to play at that level and have that kind of help

39:48Robert Mays: i was gonna 92 percent of jared versus like a borderline all pro player so that's pretty damn good i think he's pretty good all right as i rail against eric for picking iadiabe this is going to be my cheap one i didn't mean to do this just happened to fall this way i'm gonna go with

40:04Derrik Klassen: josh simmons yeah also extremely high on my list i mean that's not that's not cheap i mean yeah

40:10Robert Mays: he's a first round pick but first round pick got hurt last year kind of things kind of similar to Walter Nolan thing where the flashes that you saw were very, very good, but probably didn't play enough to have already broken out. So I'm going with Josh Simmons from the Chiefs.

40:22Derrik Klassen: I also think the Chiefs kind of skew things because the expectations on that team have been so hot. Like, like Josh Simmons is a known name, despite playing eight NFL games, just because he was the left, like they inserted him to fix their left tackle problem for a team that made three Super Bowls in a row. And so even if he's a little more famous than your average rookie who played half a season, he still qualifies for this easily.

40:49Robert Mays: Obviously a very strange rookie year. He leaves in the middle of the season, gets banged up at the end of the season. But I thought the flashes that I saw from him, Derek, are as good as any of the young tackles when it comes to like the high end stuff. I'd pick Membu among all of the rookies last year. Like I think he's the most exciting player. He was on the all rookie team. He's not eligible for something like this. But I think him, Banks and Simmons, there was plenty of stuff on tape last year when you watch them to be really, really excited about. The other two guys made the all rookie team.

41:18Robert Mays: Josh Simmons didn't. And so I'm using that to my advantage.

41:20Dave Helman: And again, that might have really just been because he didn't like if he would have played all the games, he might have just done it. You know, like it's he he was absolutely outstanding. He when I said that me picking Mims was like a flavor thing, I had I literally had Josh Simmons and Amarius Mims like as a slash on my list. like that to me was just like Mims is slightly bigger so I kind of like how he is but I think Simmons the way that he moves to me the thing with Simmons he's a fantastic pass protector already I think he's really clean in how he moves the way that he climbs to the second level as a run blocker is really really impressive like he just gets on top of linebackers and safeties whoever it is incredibly quickly and I think that if the rest of the line and scheme can like open things up for him a little bit that is the type of offensive lineman you can actually weaponize in the run game

42:07Robert Mays: I 100 % agree. And I think it's similar to the Nims conversation where maybe a more diversified run approach from the Chiefs last year allows them to weaponize him in a way that they didn't last season. I'll mention Darnell Wright again. Eric Bien-Ami is coming from a place where he watched what Darnell Wright could be for the Bears. And I don't think that Simmons plays with that kind of power. Very few guys do. But in terms of weaponizing a young tackle, if they're going to tweak and kind of evolve that run game a little bit, I think there's a chance that Josh Simmons can be that player. So I am very happy to get him here at number nine.

42:41Robert Mays: All right, round four. Dave, you're up.

42:44Derrik Klassen: Who you got? I am really happy because the high floor guy that I thought about taking around earlier survived. So I'll just take him right here. Dallas Turner. Is Dallas Turner too good after last year? I think absolutely not. Okay. I thought he was going to say absolutely, and I was about to be livid.

43:02Robert Mays: To me, he was kind of on the borderline.

43:04Derrik Klassen: 10 starts in eight, like what? 11 career sacks. I mean, that's not, I think this is kind of like perfect breakout.

43:12Dave Helman: Cause I feel like he was only kind of good for like half the season, which is like, kind of like the point is like, okay, if he can really sustain that and like really kick it up a notch next year, I would.

43:22Derrik Klassen: Yeah. And if you go back and watch some of his sacks, like it's like, it's a guy finding his way to like effort sacks and like unblocked sacks. Like, I don't think of his 2025 season as dominant by any stretch, but the signs are there that it could be a lot better. And, you know, down in, down out consistency is probably something you need to worry about. But by the way, he doesn't turn 24 until after this season, like a pretty young year three player. And you definitely saw the flashes. The bend in the athleticism are beyond obvious. Kind of like you watch him later in the year and you can see him sorting through some things like figuring out how to get guys hands off of him when that happens to him and stuff like that.

44:06Derrik Klassen: He did. He had basically an unblocked sack against Seattle in the Max Rosmer game. But even still a really, really impressive performance in a game where what the Vikings defense was doing just didn't matter, which is really unfortunate. So I'm I'm sky high on him. Yeah, he had eight sacks last year. Jonathan Grenard got traded and Van Ginkle's still there, but the Vikings didn't do a ton to offset the loss of Grenard, which gives me confidence that like, I know teams will do that sometimes to say like, Hey, Dallas Turner, it's time to turn it up, pardon the pun or else. But you could also take it as a vote of confidence.

44:48Derrik Klassen: Like, no, we feel good about what this guy can bring to us that we don't have to do anything drastic.

44:52Robert Mays: I mean, I think it just says that he's going to get a full slate of opportunities this year and so if you extrapolate what we saw in the back half of last season to a full year if he goes from being how many snaps did he have last year

45:02Derrik Klassen: he played 66 of the snaps i don't have the exact number so it's probably 550 right something like

45:07Robert Mays: that so if you go from playing 550 snaps to 750 snaps because again they're not that deep at edge is he somebody that can get 12 sacks this year i don't think that's crazy derek no they in a

45:19Dave Helman: brian flores defense absolutely not and like you said they don't have a whole lot of depth so this is going to be a defense that has to keep i mean shoot last year their third edge in a lot of cases was eric wilson who was like a hybrid play which like that's what they do but this year it might be jay golday right this year might be another hybrid player exactly which again if your competition for snaps is a hybrid player it's like you're probably still going to get a lot of those

45:39Derrik Klassen: like really important snaps out there as the starter pff had him at 42 pressures which was it's a top 50 number league wide um so like a really productive promising second season and there's all the opportunity that he can continue that. So like, and getting him at 10, I mean, I debated, I've debated him with every pick since I picked Luther Burton. So like to get him here, I'm thrilled with it.

46:03Robert Mays: I had a list of two good guys and my next to Dallas Turner is a question mark in my list of two good guys. I think it's just that he's not again, not denigrating your choice here. He's an obvious choice. Like, and it's probably why he's worth taking. You hear the backhanded compliments we're getting all over the show. I think if you were building a list of breakout players and if you were being lenient about the criteria, Dallas Turner would be near the top of that list. So I think you should feel very good about getting him here.

46:30Derrik Klassen: That's a nice basic pick you made, Dave.

46:34Dave Helman: It's not what I meant. Derek, you're out. Okay. For the sake of not just picking all the extremely good players already, I'm going to go a little bit more down my board for a guy who was a third-round pick last year. Dave, you might remember a little bit better than I do. New Orleans Saints safety Jonas Sankar is awesome.

46:52Robert Mays: There's a lot of safeties and like DBs that are potential options on this list. There's a lot of good choices potentially. My next one will be one.

47:00Dave Helman: As an aside, I wanted to say the young safeties in the NFL are awesome right now. There are guys from the last three classes that I've got. I mean, I probably have like eight guys here that are just like the young safeties, I think, are extremely good right now in the NFL. And Sankar is one of them. And I would say, especially last year among the rookies, if I'm talking about like pure post and deep play, I think Sanker is the best one. I think the way that he visions the quarterback, the way that he drives, the way that he takes angles, he has incredible range to get to the sideline when he has to.

47:33Dave Helman: I just think if you're looking at guys who are, you know, maybe he's a smidgen less flexible than guys like Malachi Starks or some of the other safeties in the league right now. But purely as a deep, like keep the lid on the defense guy, I think he is outstanding. And so he's the guy that I want to bet on for a defense that I think overall is worth betting on. But I think he's one of the young players on this group that you want to be excited about.

47:55Robert Mays: We'll say the one one of the only regrets I have about the lingering question shows is not talking about the Saints defense in the back half of the season. The reason we didn't is because we talked shuck, right? We already did a big Saints conversation, but that's a unit where I think what they did in the back half of the year. I mean, you look at some of the advanced numbers. They're fantastic. And so that's a group I'm paying a lot of attention to as we get a little bit closer to the season. And Sankar is one of several young players in the back seven that I think are worth getting excited about if you're a Saints fan.

48:27Robert Mays: I'm up. Yes, that is you. Another safety of you. Let's stick with safeties from last year's draft. I'm going with Craig Woodson from the Patriots. Another great one.

48:36Derrik Klassen: I had a feeling that that might happen.

48:38Robert Mays: I really, really liked watching Craig Woodson last year. and again kind of a little bit different than the Malachi Starks discussion or even a player like you know Sankar where Craig Woodson's best trait is what he is doing playing downhill as a run defender last year in that defense you know Jalen Hawkins was the guy who was on the back end a little bit more often and that allowed Craig Woodson to to play downhill and be a guy who's playing in the box a little bit more but I mean he was about as good in that role as you could be as a young player last year I mean just the the run defense overall how sure he was as a tackler just flying down downhill every single time he was given a chance to.

49:14Robert Mays: He's just an exciting player. Like he's a splash player because of that. We don't really have that many safeties in the league that feel like that anymore because that they're all a little bit more well-rounded and like do a little bit of everything type of players. But I just thought that his splash moments in that area last year were really, really impressive for a young player.

49:35Dave Helman: Well, and think about the Super Bowl. There were not that many like bright moments for the Patriots in the Super Bowl, but Woodson made a number of plays for them, especially in the flat coming downhill like late to get there. I was like, oh, OK, this guy. I mean, obviously he'd had a good season already, but the fact that for as tough as that Super Bowl was for that team and he was consistently popping for them, I thought was was really impressive. He is really like the the opposite of a Jonas Sanker where Sanker is like deep, keep a lid on everything. Craig Woodson is like, I'm putting the foot to the gas and we're going to go hit somebody.

50:05Dave Helman: He reminds me a lot of, I can't remember which show we were doing, but we were talking a little bit about like the Evan Williams and Reed Blankenship. They'll like roll down and play the B-gap sort of players. Craig Woodson is absolutely that sort of player. And I think he did a fantastic job for the Patriots last year.

50:20Robert Mays: He had 30 run stops last year. That was number one in the league among all safeties. Nicky Manwari had 37. Nicky Manwari was a linebacker. It's a little bit different than the depth that Craig Woodson is playing from. And so I'm really excited about what he could potentially look like in year

50:37Derrik Klassen: two. Did we specify at any point during the show, like Nicky Manwari is not eligible for this show. He's on the all rookie team.

50:42Robert Mays: Oh, right. Okay. Right. Right. Right.

50:43Derrik Klassen: Just making sure.

50:44Robert Mays: Cause that's definitely just making sure everyone who is a Seahawks fan listening to the show that, you know, that Nicky Manwari is not eligible for this exercise because he was on the all rookie team last year. So was Grace Abel. If you're curious about it, it's worth saying, worth saying out loud. All right. Let's take our next quick break and then come back with, I believe round four, round five.

51:10All right, Dave, you're up.

51:12Robert Mays: Who are you taking with the first pick of round five?

51:15Derrik Klassen: I'm going to take a 2023 draft pick. So you're going to hate him. You're not going to like this because he's old. He's washed by May's standards. But I'm really excited. This is not saying he's the best. Just one of my favorite guys in this pool of players who I just maybe, I don't think it's irrational. I love him. He jumped onto the radar last year in a big way. And if you're talking about a guy who could like break out, I mean this in multiple different ways, because the Rams Super Bowl hopes could hinge on Warren McClendon, who I'm going to draft right here. And if you game this thing out, Warren McClendon, if he plays well, could be the most desirable offensive tackle that hits free agency in 2027.

52:04Derrik Klassen: So like not only they didn't draft a tackle with their 13th overall pick, so you're leaning on Alaric Jackson and Warren McClendon to get you there. And then if that happens, he's going to be in line for either a fat extension from the Rams or he could be the rare young ascending offensive tackle that hits free agency in 2027 because Lord knows the Rams got a bunch of other business they still need to do too. So not only do I think Warren McClendon could really jump into being like a known name among young right tackles he could be a very very

52:37Robert Mays: rich man if he pulls that off my my my issue is not with that when the players were drafted it's that war mcclendon's great war mcclendon has played 776 snaps he's played less snaps in his career than paris johnson played last season so that's i'm okay with this fine okay good because

52:56Derrik Klassen: that's my pick at whatever this is number 13 overall I remember last year I'm sure I had heard the name because he played at Georgia and that Rams 2023 draft class was so big but I remember at some point last year familiarizing myself with depth charts and being like all right well Rob Havenstein's probably gonna miss some time because he's the last St. Louis Ram remaining and that's what happens when you're ancient dragging a leg around last year and so like when McClendon got in, I was like, ooh, could this, could this be bad for the Rams? We've seen what it looks like when the offensive line is not good.

53:32Derrik Klassen: And instead he was excellent, like all the way to the NFC title game. And don't get me wrong. There's stuff to work on. I don't think he, he, he needs to be better in space. He's not always like confident and as athletic as you would prefer in space, but the anchor's good. Like the, you know, his wherewithal is really good. I was so impressed by what he did playing. I think he played 10 games or started 10 games last year. And so if that's the baseline, then there's just, there's so much out in front of him if this season goes well.

54:06Dave Helman: What do you think about Warren McClellan and Derek? Well, I just think that this is a really fun choice in that, like, this is one that like, I don't even know if the team would have expected him to be like a breakout player. like a year ago like obviously they see him in practice and you know but but all that stuff but i think if they if they were certain he was like a like a full tier better than like rob havenstein at the end they probably would have just wanted to like you know have him supplant him but the fact that they didn't even know and it was like ah is he going to be able to take over the starting job and then he does and for because i'm at because the thing with tim too in 2024 i think it was the rams just injured constantly all over their offensive line and it like sunk their season And so the fact that like he was able to come in for injured players and like you didn't even think about it and they were still one of the best teams in football, I think is a pretty big testament to him.

54:54Derrik Klassen: I also think the draft nerd in me just wants this to happen because let's just imagine with me that Warren McClendon becomes a big money bright tackle. Then the Rams in 2023 would have drafted Steve Avila, Byron Young, Kobe Turner, Warren McClendon, Puka Nakua. all in. I mean, they made a shitload of picks that year, but like that, if Warren McClendon is a true hit, I mean, it's already a phenomenal draft class, but if he's a true hit, then that joins the pantheon of like best ever draft classes in recent memory. And so that would be really fun, but he did have a great year last year. Derek, you're up at 14.

55:33Dave Helman: What do you got? I am. I think we're at the point in the draft now where I just want to take players that I personally think are cool and and really enjoy that's how i approach most yeah i'm definitely there now at first i was trying to get the best players now i'm just like who do i want to talk about uh nick scorton of the carolina panthers he was on my list he's if you look at the numbers not that impressive he had like under a 10 pressure rate really didn't put up a whole lot of numbers but when you watch him it's even on rundowns like i think he just kicks ass uh like he's just incredibly he's he's not super big he's like 255 ish probably but he just plays with a lot of power and energy for a guy he said he is stout yes he is stout for a guy his size um and he's not i think my favorite thing about him and you really need this to be like a violent edge player he's just not afraid to get into like compromised positions like he will just throw his body at you for the sake of creating a mess and i absolutely love that about him and then as a pass rusher, you see some of the juice that you saw from him early in his college career when he was at Purdue.

56:35Dave Helman: Because I remember, you know, when we were talking about him coming out of college, he was at Purdue, he was a little bit lighter, probably closer to what he is now, like, you know, 250, 255-ish. But at Texas A &M, they'd asked him to bump up. And that just wasn't really the playing weight that I think he was comfortable at. Now that he's at a normal playing weight, you're like, oh, he's got a little bit of juice. Oh, he can use his hands pretty well. Oh, he can kind of go through people every now and then when he wants. So I don't know if this is a player that I'm ever like, he's got superstar edge potential, but can he be one of those like really high end number two or like low end one A or, you know, one B type of guys?

57:08Dave Helman: I absolutely think that he can get there. And so for a defense that should be better next year, him being able to play alongside Jalen Phillips, I'm pretty excited.

57:18Robert Mays: The way that I would describe Nick Scorton, I 100 % with you when it comes to, I don't know what the ceiling is. I don't know if we'll ever would be like a double digit sack guy. He is a piece of a really good NFL defense in 2026. Like he is the type of guy that good defenses are made up of. I think he can be a little bit more than this player, but the name I would throw out that I think it reminds me of just how he fits into fabric of what you're trying to be is like what Derek Hall is for the Seahawks, like that type of player. Derek Hall got$14 million a year. I think, I think Nick Squirtin could potentially get more than that when it comes down to it.

57:53Robert Mays: But those sorts of guys like 6 '2", 6 '3", 255, 260, sawed off, power players, good against the run, ass kickers, mentality is what you want. Like these are the types of players you need a handful of if you're ever going to be good on defense. And I think Nick Scorton is one of those guys.

58:11Dave Helman: My comp for him coming out of college, another player I think perfectly exemplifies this, George Karloftis was this. Like when the, when the chiefs defense was kind of at their peak a couple of years ago, you don't want him to be the best player on your defensive line, but you absolutely want a guy like out, out like that out there playing a significant amount of snaps for you. Helps you run, helps you pass. Like he's just, I think he's a really good player.

58:32Robert Mays: Nick Scorn and Malachi Stark are the two guys that were on my list, but I knew I wouldn't draft high enough to get.

58:39Dave Helman: That's always a good sub list to have of like, I'm not going to play my flag on these guys,

58:44Robert Mays: but I know that I would like them. And if for whatever reason they don't get drafted, I need a couple of spillover players. They're the guys I'm happy to have on my list. My next one here, I didn't want to say anything while you were talking because I didn't want to give it like to show my hand. I'm picking another Bengals offensive lineman. I'm picking Dylan Fairchild.

59:04Dave Helman: Great pick.

59:06Robert Mays: I think he, you really saw what the floor, what type of floor he had as a player last year. And I think as much or even more than Mims, he is somebody that as they diversify the run game and they figure out ways to weaponize their players, he's somebody that we're going to see out in space more. We're going to see as a polar more. I think they're really excited about him just giving them a layer on offense that they have not had at guard. They just haven't had it. Like they have not had guards that you want to feature as players. They've been trying to get by at that position for a while now. And I'm just really excited to see what Dylan Fairchild can be in year two.

59:46Robert Mays: And I think he's going to get every opportunity to show that as the Bengals kind of evolve what they are on offense.

59:54Dave Helman: He's like, do you have like a player comp for him you have in mind? Like when it looks like it could at its best, what does Dylan Fairchild look like?

1:00:02Robert Mays: That's a good question. I assume you asking that question, you asking that you have somebody in mind. I think if it all goes well, it's like Wyatt Teller-ish, right? Like when he was with the Browns, like when they were more of a guy, right. That's like high in the sky, but yes, but I think, but that's what you're hunting. And honestly, I think that's a good comparison for this reason. Wyatt Teller, we, we noticed him so often within those offenses because of how often he was pulling because of like the highlight plays that you got to see from him. And so I think that's like the best possible example, but I think it's a worthwhile name to throw out for that exact reason.

1:00:37Robert Mays: So we have two Bengals offensive linemen in our breakout player draft. We're in a new world when it comes to the Cincinnati Bengals roster construction.

1:00:45Derrik Klassen: There are some selections in this exercise where you're just, like, you're willing things into being. You know, like, we'll see. We'll see how well some of that actually ages. Okay. You're up at 16, Dave. I don't even know if I want to take this guy, but I want to mention him. I think he's too good. He'd like statistically he makes sense, but Michael Wilson's too good for this, right? He's 100 % too good after what last season was.

1:01:12Robert Mays: No chance.

1:01:13Derrik Klassen: But I do think it's worth saying that because like he's really good and underrated and not enough people talk about him. He broke out already. It's hard for me to agree when you play for Arizona, like respectfully to the Cardinals.

1:01:26Robert Mays: He was Randy Moss for three games last year. He broke out already.

1:01:29Derrik Klassen: I just, if you're a Cardinals fan, I think it's worth hearing that Michael Wilson is too good for this. It's not that we've been making all these picks without thinking about him. Okay, fair enough. That leaves me... God. I'm like, I'm sitting here. Okay, no, I'm just going to do it. And like, whatever. I don't really have room for it. But I'm. I definitely don't have room for it. There are other places I could go. But if I'm just trying to take the best players and the players that I really love, I think it's stupid that y 'all haven't taken Patrick Paul. So I'm just going to do it. What do you think about Patrick?

1:02:06Derrik Klassen: Do you think Patrick Paul was too good last year to be eligible for this?

1:02:08Dave Helman: I actually had him on my short list, so I do not. I'm willing to let him go.

1:02:13Derrik Klassen: You can't be too good if you've only started one season in the NFL. That's fair.

1:02:17Robert Mays: I just feel like there was enough buzz about him. I was going to say, was there enough buzz about him taking the step forward he did last year to say that he might have already broken out to an extent? But I'm okay with this. So here's the thing with the tackles.

1:02:31Dave Helman: I think that there are like 10 exciting young tackles. And we've all talked about how exciting the young tackles are in the NFL. but none of them yet have like really become elite players. And I, but I do think that Patrick Paul is one of those guys that like, I mean, he, if I was taken to tackle next, he would have been the one that I was going to pick.

1:02:48Derrik Klassen: All right. I'm good with this. I, I, I hear what you're saying, but I also think it's funny because we borderline at best. I think you're totally fine. We are, we are NFL media members and we do a podcast for sicko NFL fans. So like to us, not just to go NFL fans. If you're a casual fan, please come, come on in, come on in, please. The water's warm. Join the Discord. Link in the chat. Link in the description. I mean, even still in the wherever you get your podcast in the grand picture of people that watch NFL football. I don't think Patrick Paul has broken out. You're probably right about that.

1:03:19Derrik Klassen: And so and I but I think Aaron Brewer hasn't even broken out.

1:03:22Robert Mays: He's first.

1:03:23Derrik Klassen: I think he will, though. I think he will. I think he's he is such an exciting mover, like his athleticism, the way he gets to the second level, the way that he gets out in space. and I think he's right now probably from the games I went back and watched I was like I enjoy watching you block up the run more than I enjoy watching you as a pass protector I think that was always going to be the case early on with him yeah but there's all the potential in the world the guy is massive by the way Caden Proctor is going to start out at left guard so like if he's remotely good Patrick Paul is massive so the idea of him and Proctor and then Brewer being at center like seven a is not a small guy no oh i mean i'm imagining proctor gets the starting job as a rookie but like even if he doesn't i suppose that's gonna be the other guard spot those those are

1:04:13Robert Mays: the right i don't know move i think the plan is for proctor playing the left side and seven a will play on the right side and so you got some massive dudes and aaron brewer it's actually a pretty fun offensive line it's a lot of beef is what i'm trying to say it reminds me of those eagles the eagles where you have like you have five you have four 330 awesome jacks is not that big but you've got several like 330 pound guys and then you have a little like a little tiny

1:04:35Derrik Klassen: man who's my height at center i talked to teron armstead last year and i asked him but this was before the season i asked him like which young offensive tackles he really loved and he said patrick paul and at the time i was like come on man give me a non-teammate like that's not fair and now a year later i'm like oh okay he was he was on to something because patrick paul is a really exciting player. It's ridiculous that he is my third tackle, but I just think he's too good to still be available.

1:05:03Robert Mays: There are a lot of fun young tackles. I think fun young tackles, fun young safeties. It's okay for us to be stacking up those guys. All right, Derek, you're up here at 17.

1:05:12Dave Helman: I think I'm going to go with another safety, actually. And this is a player, he's like a one and a half year starter, and I've actually already talked about this team. I think Taiki Smith is really good. God damn it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. God damn it. I just think this dude is really good. He has his click and close is like, holy shit. Like when he decides to like really get after it, I just think he comes down on the ball so fast. He's a guy who they've moved around a little bit. Like, I just think that he has, when we talk about like explosive playability at safety, I actually do think he has a little bit of that.

1:05:46Dave Helman: But again, I think it goes back to what I was saying with Diaby. There were so many obvious weak points on the defense overall last year that I think it was hard for some of these players to shine. I think if the overall floor of the defense is lifted, you're really going to see a player like Tykee Smith pop. Like, I just I think that he can run with tight ends. He can run with running backs out of the backfield and go tackle them if he needs to. Like he just the energy that he plays with and how fast he gets from sideline to sideline. I'm really excited about him.

1:06:14Derrik Klassen: I thought I could just tack him on to the end of my class. I thought he was a little bit more under the radar because like he was solid last year, but not like amazing. It was his first year playing deep in that defense. but I'm totally with you. And I wanted Jacob Parrish for my team too, but he's too good. He was on the all rookie team, but the Bucs have like three or four young DBs that I'm really excited about. I like Tykee Smith a lot.

1:06:39Robert Mays: All right, my next one, I'm going to be a caricature of myself. It's the type of player that I really like. It's a guy I have mentioned many times that I think is more talented than his production has been. There's going to be mouths to feed in the offense. I think that's the downside potentially, but if he can stay healthy and play all year, I don't think that's going to be enough of a deterrent to him being a really good, productive player. I think Ricky Pearsall is really f***ing good.

1:07:04Dave Helman: Yeah. Wow. Okay, this is the first time I've with you thought about, like, is he too good? But I think that that's, I mean, he's obviously, he's an awesome player.

1:07:13Derrik Klassen: No, he's...

1:07:13Dave Helman: But he's like a Marion Hampton level, where it's like, I think we agree the talent is there, but when you play five games a year, it's hard.

1:07:20Robert Mays: I mean, he's never had more than 528 receiving yards in a season. I think it's okay to say he's not too good.

1:07:26Derrik Klassen: I understand what you're saying. He looks too good when he plays, but he has started 13 combined games over the course of two years. He was on my short list as well. To be honest with you, now that you say it, I'm kind of pissed at myself. I would have been fine taking Pearsall instead of Patrick Paul. Like, if he can stay on the field, I'm sky high on what he could be.

1:07:46Robert Mays: I just think he's really good. You look at some of the advanced numbers, the efficiency numbers. When he is on the field and when they are throwing him the ball, his targets are just unbelievably valuable. And there is a world where because Mike Evans is there, he gets pushed a little bit further down in the pecking order and just isn't featured that much. But even with Evans and Stribling and them going out and getting Christian Kirk, I still feel like if he can stay healthy, the talent is just too good for him to not be a featured part of that offense. And so this to me is solely a matter of health.

1:08:20Robert Mays: If he plays 15 games and he can be out there for a majority of the snaps consistently, I think Ricky Pierce all is too good to be ignored.

1:08:29Dave Helman: I 100 % agree. And like they definitely have more mouths to feed in this offense, obviously with bringing in Mike Evans and stuff. But I think a huge part of their offense since he's been in it is that Brock Purdy will throw a lot of those outbreakers and Ricky Pearsall is really good winning one-on-one. Mike Evans is like a good down the field one-on-one because he's massive, but I don't think he's like quite the separator and route runner that he was when he was a little bit younger. And like in terms of, again, just snapping off those like out routes, comeback routes, all that stuff, it's one of Brock Purdy's best balls.

1:08:58Dave Helman: And Ricky Pearsall is, I think, pretty clearly the best guy on the roster to handle those types of routes.

1:09:03Robert Mays: Looking at it right now, so among all pass catchers last year who had at least 50 targets, here is the list of EPA per target in the top 10. Stephon Diggs was number one. Puka, George Kittle, George Pickens, Alec Pierce, Ricky Pierce, all the sixth. Among all players, my guy Luther Burden's ninth, by the way. My guy. That's right. That's your guy. And Colson Lovelland is 10th. Burden and Lovelland are both in the top 10. The only two, this actually feels right. The two offenses that have two guys in the top 10 are the Niners and the Bears. So I really hope that Ricky Pearsall can stay healthy.

1:09:46Robert Mays: The other receiver I was going to mention that I think is too good and has been too productive, but if we're talking about Delta between what he was last year and what he can be this year, Josh Downs. I truly do believe that if Josh Downs is that second receiver within the offense, is there a reason that he's been pushed aside a little bit over the last couple years? Like maybe like maybe there is just something sitting there with the Colts and with Shane Steichen where it's like, I believe he's too limited to be a major feature player within the offense. But kind of something what appears all it's like, well, every time he's out there and every time you throw him the ball, good shit happens.

1:10:22Robert Mays: So I think if we extrapolate that a little bit, I'm willing to believe in the best case scenario.

1:10:26Derrik Klassen: Downs is interesting because the Colts are clearly giving him an opportunity at a higher ceiling. but he still has 200 career catches for 2 ,100 yards. Like that's, that's, that's too good. It's too good.

1:10:38Robert Mays: That's why, that's why I didn't, I didn't even mention him. I think he is definitely to me, like it's, it's a worthwhile conversation. In the last two years combined, Josh Downs is 20th in the NFL among all players in first downs per route run. If you look at the list of guys ahead of him over the last two years, it's essentially nothing but superstars. like it's nothing but star players puka amanra george kittle jsn rasheed rice drake one and steph diggs mike evans aj brown nico collins luther burden who is a star tyree kill jamar chase terry mclaurin davante adams chris godwin george pickens trey mcbride josh downs i i would like josh downs to be like a more featured player within the offense and i think there will be a version of a breakout potentially but not for this exercise i just wanted to mention that yeah

1:11:25Derrik Klassen: you are up david okay at 19 i'm coming i'm coming to the i mean i have plenty more names but i'm coming to the end of like the guys that i was really targeting i really thought i really thought tyke smith would be there for me yeah two rounds left here guys make sure your cues are prioritized

1:11:46Robert Mays: i got i got two with a bullet names that i i know i'm going for that i assume at least one of them was not going to be on the radar for either one of these two.

1:11:54Derrik Klassen: I'd like to come out of this with a corner, but I feel better about some of my options elsewhere. And one of those, I joked that one of y 'all might take him, but way down here at, what are we on? Like pick 20? Yeah, pick 20. Pick 19, yeah. I'll just take Roman Dunze and cover my bases. I'll be fine. With like one pair or the other, I'm going to benefit.

1:12:22Robert Mays: I'm okay with that. The problem is though, both of them probably, man, both of them do break out. I'm going to have the best year of my life. Yeah. I assume only one of them can kind of break out though.

1:12:31Derrik Klassen: I mean, I disagree. All right. Now we're being nebulous with what breakout means because like, let's just imagine the bears offense is sick and the bears win a ton of games. One of these guys could have six, 700 yards and still break out because they're a good player on a, on a good team in the city of Chicago. Like that stuff matters. Like if you're good in a city like Chicago or Dallas or Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Kansas city, obviously. Like if you're a good in a city like that, it carries more weight than I keep talking shit, but like Arizona, I think that's tougher.

1:13:09Robert Mays: It had 700 yards of his receiver already. I think there's a world where both of them do, but it's like both of them have 1200 yards and Colson Lovelland has a thousand and we're just cooking with gas.

1:13:19Derrik Klassen: If the Bears have another season like they did last year and these guys are healthy and productive, they'll they'll be breakout players. I'm not worried about it.

1:13:26Robert Mays: Every single member of the Bears offense is going to break out this year. So if you wanted to keep listing off the receivers, you're going to take my guy here.

1:13:34Dave Helman: No, what's the what's the other receiver they had last year today? Walker, I'll take him.

1:13:41Dave Helman: But I it was a catch.

1:13:43Robert Mays: I'm taking Sam Rauch in the next in the next round. No rookie.

1:13:46Dave Helman: He's also one of the rules, by the way. Right. If you're wondering why we haven't taken like Carnell Tate or something like that, that's why. Jeremiah Love. Jeremiah Love. Yes, exactly. I, if I was picking Bears receivers, I mean, caricature of myself, but I would have taken Roma Dunze. I just think that it's not even just what Dave was saying earlier about like Luther Burton is a little bit like newer. So he's flashier. It's just that like even the best of Roma Dunze is probably going to be pretty boring. Like the best of Cortland Sutton is kind of boring. And I think that Roma Dunze is like that style of player.

1:14:18Dave Helman: But I think that style of player, if everything goes right, can be like a pretty consistent, like 1100 yards, seven touchdowns for you type of player. And I do think if the Bears offense is going to be what we want it to be, he does have to be that like big bodied presence for them on the outside to really get there.

1:14:35Robert Mays: I said it last year pretty matter, last week, pretty matter of factly, that if the Bears offense is going to be what it needs to be, Caleb Williams needs to be better. It's very true for Roma Dunze. Like, he needs to be a more productive, consistent player than he was last year for the Bears to hit their ceiling on offense.

1:14:49Derrik Klassen: And I think he can be. Corlin Sutton has made some very non-boring plays, I'll just say. I'm thinking about the touchdown he scored against the Bills.

1:14:57Dave Helman: He does have some. I just mean compared to, like, other star X receivers. Like, he's not Death Bryant.

1:15:04Derrik Klassen: I absolutely get what you mean. But, like, if Roma Dunze makes, like, four disgusting plays in the red zone this year, then, by the way, that's a great way to break out too roma dunze's like volume stats might not be amazing but if he's the one making the dj more plays at the end of these ridiculous bears games then that'll be just fine i hope there are a few ridiculous ones but just as many cool plays all right derek you're up man pick 20 okay pick 20 what do i want to do here i think i'm going to leave off all the

1:15:39Dave Helman: players I think are probably too good because again, I'm at the point of this where I don't think that that is any fun. I will, I will, you know what? I'll continue leaning into being a caricature of myself though. I'm going to take a linebacker and this is the only one that I even had considered for this. This is the only guy I had on the list. Cedric Gray of the Tennessee Titans.

1:15:57Robert Mays: I was going to ask you if Cedric Gray was too good because he was initially on my list. I think he's probably not.

1:16:02Dave Helman: He's like on the borderline, I would say, because he did have a pretty impressive season last year. But I think that was also like in very specific ways. Like I think he's just a really good run through get into the backfield type of player. His coverage stuff is a little bit up and down. If you get hands on him, he's a little bit up and down. And I think maybe some of that will continue to be true. You know, he's a little bit lighter. He's a weak side linebacker. That is what it is. I do think in the Robert solid defense where they're going to unleash you to do a lot of that stuff and with as improved as the defensive line should be overall, like the edges I think are going to be stouter, obviously, with John Franklin Myers, Jermaine Johnson there Jeffrey Simmons is still there creating a lot of space like this is just a player that I think part of it is almost what Dave was talking about we're like I don't know if if this player is going to be that much better but I think that there's a chance that the Titans defense getting the Robert Sala like uh bump in terms of how we talk about them and how we see them I do think that he can be a huge benefactor for that pretty much every single reason I considered

1:16:57Robert Mays: him for for this exercise is that I think he there's a chance he is a little bit more refined in coverage there's a chance that every single bit of every single positive you saw against a run last year is even dialed up a little bit more within that scheme where there's more help therefore obviously they're the defensive tackles he played behind last year like those those are really good players like to vandre sweat was a really good player the only reason he's not in this draft is because he was an all rookie player two years ago but i overall the defense is more talented. The scheme is conducive to him shining even more than he did before.

1:17:32Robert Mays: And that defense potentially is going to be in conversations in a way they weren't a year ago. For all of those reasons, I think that Cedric is a good pick.

1:17:41Derrik Klassen: I was curious. I'm not going to take him anyway at this point, but Henry Toa Toa too good for this? What's the ruling there?

1:17:51Dave Helman: Well, that's interesting. I don't think so. I don't think so.

1:17:54Derrik Klassen: He's played a lot, but I don't think he's too good. I think he's worth mentioning because he's in a contract year on an amazing defense.

1:18:01Dave Helman: And I do think that the trajectory has been up for him. He's the shortest side on Henry Toto. When he came into the league, I could not stand him. Like just cat chasing a laser, couldn't take on blocks, useless in coverage. I think now he's like an above average linebacker, actually. Like he's still got some of his flaws. You know, if you get hands on him, you can move him. And he still does have plays where he's just kind of chasing stuff. but he's he's a good player now but i do think that there's a chance that again contract year defense continues to be great that like maybe he even turns that up a notch all right before i pick my next guy i'm not gonna pick this person but i wanted to just bring him up for discussion

1:18:39Robert Mays: and see if he is eligible what about travis hunter

1:18:45Derrik Klassen: i appreciate the way that you are willing to chase the travis hunter dragon like yeah i feel you've brought him up on a few shows like this which there's nothing wrong with that for the record

1:18:54Robert Mays: so we're just gonna forget that like this is one of the most exciting prospects to come along in like the last decade so he didn't play defense last year he's gonna play defense this year he's

1:19:04Dave Helman: in a weird spot where i think if we remove the name value obviously not too good like he had some good plays last year on defense and some exciting stuff on offense but like just didn't play enough was not like a full-time player either way but there's just like a well he's travis hunter element of it that I like I didn't even consider him on my list that's that's why I didn't know

1:19:24Derrik Klassen: for the exact same reason he is absolutely eligible for this he played in seven games last year it

1:19:30Robert Mays: feels just it just feels cheap it feels like it feels like it requires nothing to be like I think

1:19:35Derrik Klassen: Travis Hunter might be a good player this year if he plays a lot that your football hipsterdom is shining through I think like that he absolutely qualifies I get your point though like number two overall pick they traded up however many spots to get him like you just you don't need a phd in football to guess that a guy like that might have a better year or two than year one

1:19:55Robert Mays: that's why like i wouldn't pick cam ward like that just doesn't like there's i think there's some guys i think this is here's here's where i'm gonna land on this your stance on this where part of breaking out is recognition yeah travis hunter is already no he doesn't need any help the guys on commercials like there's like even if as a player he hasn't broken out yet i think the general consciousness around him prevents him from being like a worthwhile selection in something

1:20:21Derrik Klassen: like this counterpoint and you don't have to take him and it's fine but counterpoint would be the amount of hype the the discourse about him being a one of one the only two-way player that we've ever seen in modern football if he doesn't break out he's gonna get killed for it by people I mean there are people who don't think he should have won the Heisman Trophy because the idea of like well you're just pretty good at two things is that better than being exceptional at one thing I'm not stating my opinion but there were plenty of those people that felt that way and so if he doesn't break out then I think he's he's gonna catch a lot of shit for it And so I think that makes it interesting, even though he is undeniably a known name in the football universe.

1:21:09Robert Mays: I just want to bring him up for this exact reason. I think he's eligible, but I don't blame you for not picking him. I'm going to go about as far away from Travis Hunter as I possibly can with this next pick. This is a fifth round pick that has played about a season and a half. I will fully admit it's a little bit of wish casting on my part because I need him to break out for me to be a happy person over the next calendar year.

1:21:29Derrik Klassen: So it's a bear?

1:21:30Robert Mays: Austin Booker. Oh, it is a bear. I had him on my list. I'm going with Austin Booker. I don't know if I would have taken him, but I had him on my list. Weird career at this point, you know, was a spot player as a rookie, missed the first half of last season, comes back, plays significantly better down the stretch. He had at least three pressures Austin Booker did in five of the Bears' last seven games. You see it. Like, you see the length. You see the flashes. I think you see potentially what he can be with healthy offseason, adding a little bit more strength, a little bit more refinement. Again, I think Austin Booker needs to be a much better player for the Bears defense to take a step forward.

1:22:10I think there is a reasonable chance that that can happen.

1:22:14Robert Mays: And so I'm just trying to will this into existence for the most part.

1:22:18Derrik Klassen: I think the signs of improvement are there. And I absolutely think he can continue to ascend. It sucks for him. that's the discourse about Austin Booker is just whether or not he's a dirty player because of the nature of some of the hits that especially like in the Packers games, but like over the totality of his, you know, brief NFL career, like you see the signs of like a good ascending player and he's still fairly young, I believe, right?

1:22:44Robert Mays: Yes, absolutely. He is. He's 23. Yeah.

1:22:48Derrik Klassen: Yeah. So, I mean, this is going to be year three. So I'm... And again, opportunity abounds on that defensive front. So... I'm going with Austin Booker.

1:22:57Dave Helman: He's one of those players where you see the giddy-up and the bend in some of those scenarios, and you're like, can you please just get, like, 20 % more consistent and a little bit stronger, and we're going to be in, like, really, really good shape. And that's it.

1:23:09Robert Mays: And I think there is a chance that both of those things happen, and if they do, I feel like he is very much a breakout candidate, Austin Booker. Last round here, Dave. What do you got?

1:23:19Derrik Klassen: This is just as stressful as the first pick because I've got two dozen names left, and like there are better players I could take but yeah like I don't know all right this is all

1:23:32Robert Mays: this is all about flag planting that is not about picking the last pick you got to come away with

1:23:36Derrik Klassen: the guy you want all right in the spirit of that then I'm just gonna take nowhere near the guy that would be on the top of my list but just a guy that I love and I always have since I first watched him midway through last year. Upton Stout. Upton Stout's a good one. I love a 5 '9 cornerback who doesn't give a shit that he's 5 '9 and plays like it and is just a pain in the ass. The tape was all over the place. He's absolutely still...

1:24:05Robert Mays: In ways both good and bad. In ways both good and bad.

1:24:08Derrik Klassen: He's certainly not a finished product, but just like a shot of espresso and just wakes you up when you watch him play. I think he's awesome. and there are certainly better players I could take right here, but I just want him to be on my team.

1:24:23Robert Mays: I like Upton Stout a lot. I like this pick a lot. Derek, your last one is who?

1:24:28Dave Helman: I'm actually going to take another player who is a nickel and I'm going to take, I don't know how I landed with so many NFC South players, but I have. I just want to pick a player that I think is fun. Billy Bowman for the Atlanta Falcons.

1:24:41Derrik Klassen: I thought about Bowman. I was between Bowman and Stout.

1:24:44Robert Mays: I also did. He only played six games last year. I thought it was more.

1:24:47Dave Helman: realized that i was surprised by that he was really good early in the season played like 80 of the snaps he was out there a ton for them and then yeah he got hurt for the falcons by the way that's one rug it might be worth just mentioning it and i'll just outplay for the niners yes and what i'll say too is like early in the year when there was a little bit of juice of like oh hey the falcons defense they're not that bad there was a lot of pump obviously for xavier watts and the way that he was playing at safety and obviously he had a really good season i thought Bowman was better than Watts even like Bowman just flies around like he is a killer in run defense again I think he tackles really well he was actually I think he was a safety in college and he played more of the nickel position for them but and I think sometimes with those guys who go from safety and then now play the nickel in the NFL they're a little bit more zone guys they're a little bit bigger that's actually not Bowman he's like 5 '10 barely over 200 and I actually thought a lot of his reps where he was running with guys pure one-on-one like breaking on outside routes with guys like I actually thought he showed some good hip flexibility ability to drive on the ball go and get it and so he's a player where if he has another healthy season and that defense is a little bit better in run defense and can get it to some passing downs I actually do think that he could have like a pretty sick year it's a unit overall that we're

1:26:01Robert Mays: actually going to talk about a little bit I think later this week I there's a lot of players I mean you think about Jalen Walker Xavier Watts Billy Bowman that's leaving even James Pierce aside that entire draft class from last year is worth keeping tabs on as we head into year two. And the benefit for them is even with a new staff, there's a reason they kept Jeff. There's a reason they kept, kept Jeff Ulbrich. And so they get to build on what they did last year. And I think there was a lot of exciting moments from that group that, uh, looking forward to seeing what they can be in year two. My last one, this was my deepest cut, but I going back and rewatching, I was like, you know what?

1:26:37Robert Mays: I think this guy has a chance to be similar to the guys from last year on his team, right? Like, I think maybe he won't be a Pro Bowl-level player, but I think he has a chance to break out in the same way, like, his center broke out last year where we're watching the first month of the season. It's like, oh, shit, like, this guy can really play. And it's Jalen Travis from the Colts.

1:26:57Dave Helman: Okay, another bet on their, like, fifth now developmental offensive lineman. Okay.

1:27:02Robert Mays: So fourth-round pick last year. He played a handful of games at the end of the season. I think he started four games last year. Three of the four games he started last year were against the Jags, Texans, and Seahawks. So he was thrown into the fire in the final month of the year last year. And you see it. I mean, he has a really intriguing package of traits. He's a massive, like a massive dude, 330. And he can really move. They'll get him out into space on run plays. And he's like 35-inch arms. you see the length and the way that he can really use that length. There are moments where you see some of the like stiffness where he'll bend a little bit, like he's a waist bender sometimes.

1:27:43Robert Mays: So there are moments where he doesn't always recover very smoothly. There was one rep specifically against Trayvon Walker in that second Jags game where Trayvon Walker beats him inside, and he has some trouble with that stuff. But the combination of size, straight line explosiveness, ability to play in space power against the run and a real understanding of how to use that length as a pass protector i'm looking forward to what he can be as a full-time starter six eight three

1:28:12Derrik Klassen: 30 from minnesota played at iowa state that's that's really all i mean was at princeton he was

1:28:18Robert Mays: at princeton he only played one year of big time college football i think that's part of why he fell in the draft but you look at like his physical profile and his testing and the big closest physical comps for him, all of them are like first or second round picks. All of them.

1:28:31Derrik Klassen: It's funny how this works, and it's not right, but last year I was pretty concerned about Bordellini and Gonsalves just stepping in and how good of a job they were going to do. And a year later, I'm like, okay, Jalen Travis will be good. That's fine. I completely trust that that's true.

1:28:46Robert Mays: That was my, like, without going back and watching thought, and then going back and watching today, you see some stuff where there was a play in that Jags game where they just uproot Dickerson on a double team, him and Gonsalves. And it's like, you watch it. He has real power in the run game. And so the stiffness, again, I think that would be in the back of my mind, and you do see that creep up. But there are some real traits and some real flashes from Jalen Travis in those four games that I'll be curious to see what he looks like with a full offseason and a chance to be a full-time starter.

1:29:20Dave Helman: And now that you know he's just, because this feels like similar to Gonsalves, I think Gonsalves did play a little bit in 2024. again same kind of deal and born alini because that group was so banged up the year before right and you for both of them you were like you know you see a little bit here but i think i want to see a little bit more for you to actually get it and then they both clean up like some of their footwork stuff the hand placement looks a little better and so it's like again if he can do that going into a full off season knowing he's the guy which i think is always an underrated thing for these guys who were backups now moving into starting roles is like you get to practice with the big boys now which i do think is like a really important thing and so hopefully he can take that next step for them because they this is an offense that probably needs eight dominoes to fall for them to be as nearly as good as they were last year him being like that caliber of player is one

1:30:03Robert Mays: of those 100 and i think that the circumstances the environment that they've created there i was listening brandon thorne did a one-on-one interview with uh tony sperano on his sub stack earlier this summer and tony sperano jr was talking about just jalen travis was like in his office every single day even when he was on the scout team as a rookie player and so So when you combine that level of physical talent with the desire to get better, good things typically happen, and he clearly has both of them. So I'm excited to see what JL and Travis can be in year two. The only guy I had on my list that I think met all the criteria that I'm just really surprised we didn't pick, and I didn't pick him because I thought I would get Luther Burden and Ricky Pearsall and didn't want to do a million receivers, is Matthew Golden.

1:30:47That was the only guy I was like, that was on my short list.

1:30:50Dave Helman: is better than two or three of the players I picked. I just kind of wanted to talk about some of the other ones, like Billy Bowman and stuff like that. Because I think being a Packers receiver, guys like Matthew Golden get talked about a lot, but he absolutely deserved to have gone higher in this draft.

1:31:06Derrik Klassen: Yeah, I think that's a classic case of like, okay, do you need me to tell you that Matthew Golden could be better in year two? Exactly. That's why I did not ultimately pick him. And if that offends some Packers fans, I'm really sorry. Matthew Golden is very fun, and hopefully we'll have a great 2026.

1:31:21Robert Mays: Any other names you guys just want to throw out very quickly before we get out of here? That you're like, I could have drafted him. I didn't. Players just want to recognize because I had most of mine. Yeah, I built a very small board. I was like the Patriots. I was like, I knew how I wanted to come away with.

1:31:34Derrik Klassen: The Jags entire backfield qualifies for this. Yeah. Which is all three. Chris Rodriguez and LaQuint Allen both qualify too. For that matter, Parker Washington officially qualifies. Too good. Too good. I think too good now.

1:31:48Dave Helman: He led the team in receiving.

1:31:50Derrik Klassen: Yeah. All right, fine. Gunner Helm is another guy I'm going to mention. Derek took Jonas Sanker. I debated Kool-Aid McKinstry.

1:32:00Robert Mays: Quincy Riley, I also think he did a lot there. There's a lot of Saints that would be potential picks here.

1:32:05Derrik Klassen: Trey Amos, too. Trey Amos is a good one. That's most of the big ones I had.

1:32:11Robert Mays: I thought of an Azaraku, potentially.

1:32:13Dave Helman: Yes, I had Azaraku on there. Michael Williams I consider because I do still think that he can be a good player the other one that I think is tricky this one is like I wouldn't have picked him to break out because of the team that he plays on and he's not going to play enough and Dave mentioned him earlier Josiah Stewart is a really good football player he's just going to be the only reason is because he's going to be the

1:32:34Robert Mays: third rusher for that team okay I like Josiah Stewart coming out yeah I remember watching his tape for Michigan I was like that guy can play and so I'm 100 % with you on that but again it's just about opportunities like yes what is that he gets five sacks is like the third the third

1:32:49Dave Helman: address or like that's kind of a breakout i guess like if he played for the tennessee titans right now like he would probably get a significant more s'mores amount of uh plays and he would like potentially actually break out or the cardinals or whatever but because he plays behind miles garrett and uh byron young it's like well he's probably not ever gonna put it up enough to

1:33:07Robert Mays: actually break out here all right i like it all right that's an hour and 30 minutes brave picking breakout players.

1:33:13Derrik Klassen: You're welcome, America.

1:33:14Robert Mays: That's what we're doing on July 15th. Really enjoyed that. We're going to have a few more drafts over the next month or so as we dig into our preview specific content, which is coming. My training camp travel is booked. We're like, we're here. I'm leaving in a week.

1:33:31Derrik Klassen: America and the world, I should say, because I know how many worldwide listeners we have, and I love the mental image of our overseas fans getting hyped about Tykee Smith and Billy Bowman. Derek, you took the NFC South's entire young safety.

1:33:45Dave Helman: I took basically every NFC South defender that I could think of. Not what I intended going in, but that's where I landed.

1:33:52Robert Mays: It's a good preview because we are going to be talking a little bit about the NFC South on tomorrow's show. So I'm looking forward to. For now, that is all we've got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

1:34:42Derrik Klassen: exactly the way you remember them. Clean fragrances, smart control, all from your phone. Visit Pura.com to shop the summer collection.