The messages teams sent in the 2026 NFL Draft

0:00Hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app, when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? Alright, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast experts set up on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app.

0:26Robert Mays: Wayfair, every style, every home.

0:31When you turn 45, it's your turn to blow many candles and to screen for colon cancer. Use the Cologuard Plus test in the privacy of your home and send it back to obtain your results.

0:43Robert Mays: Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Prescription only. See more information at Cologuard.com. Request the Cologuard Plus test from your doctor. For more information in Spanish, visit Cologuard.com. slash prueba. It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show.

1:19See terms at discover.com slash credit card.

1:24Robert Mays: Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays, our first show now that the dust has settled from the 2026 NFL draft. I've done this podcast beyond being a podcast, this idea in some form for a very long time. I always like doing it as like the first beat after the draft coming into the draft, the month before the draft, especially the week before the draft, it's lying season. Teams are telling you everything they can to get you off their scent. And when the draft is over, there's really nowhere to hide. Teams have sent you the messages and told you what they think about where they are, what they felt about their roster, where they thought they needed to improve.

2:03Robert Mays: And so we're going to spend today trying to decipher some of those messages that teams sent with their 2026 draft classes. And in a way, their 2026 off seasons to this point with me and Dave Hellman. So let's get to that conversation with Dave right now.

2:27Robert Mays: Now that we are a couple days removed from the end of the 2026 NFL draft, doing a show that I always like to do. I've done this in some version, whether it's being on a podcast or written, for years now. I remember the first time I think I did this was like the Christian McCaffrey, Curtis Samuel draft with the Panthers telling us we want a certain type of playmaker within our offense. And I always like doing this show, Dave, because as I said, when we were doing the live streams this weekend, before the draft happens, teams can lie to you. They often do lie to you. Now that the draft is over, they can't.

2:59Robert Mays: Everything is out in plain sight. Their intentions, what they're valuing, the directions they want to go, how they want to change or kind of tweak the type of teams they are. It's all out in the open. And so we're going to dig into today just the messages that teams sent to us based on what they did this weekend in the draft. I like doing this show because draft weekend feels like a fugue state between the hours that you're working and the things you're trying to juggle. Like by the time you get to Sunday morning, I barely remember anything. Like I couldn't, on Sunday morning, I couldn't have hoped to tell you like a team's total class.

3:36I can't remember that for the life of me. So spending -

3:38Robert Mays: I still can't do it with the Dolphins. Oh my God. I mean, they drafted 18 guys. But yeah, like even teams that drafted six to eight, they just, it's all a jumble. So then you spend part of Sunday and Monday going back through it. And now I kind of feel like I'm getting my hands around what everybody has, which is, it's nice to recap. The show we're doing tomorrow with Fran Duffy is very much in that vein, where it's like, now that we've slept on it, like what are our kind of morning after thoughts about the draft or two mornings after, which there's some that maybe overlap with what we can talk about today, but I think there are plenty of things to fit in both of those buckets.

4:11Robert Mays: So we're going to go through about, I don't know, 10-ish teams today and discuss some of the messages we think they sent us in the draft. Why don't you start us off? Where did your list start with this? I go first. Your first. Awesome, because I bet you$10 I'm going to take one off of your list. I'm just going to snipe it from you. It's important to note that we don't know how good these guys are, right? Like, all we can go off of is the process. So I don't know if these guys are going to step into the shoes that have been put out for them. But if we're talking about sending a message, I don't know if anybody did that as clearly as the Houston Texans.

4:45Robert Mays: Interesting. They were on my list, but they were a little bit further down. I just like if you're just trying to read the tea leaves of what a team thinks, it doesn't really get more obvious than what the Texans did, which is draft a football guy, like old school lunch pail garbage man football player and Keelan Rutledge, like everything you've read about this guy is he just doesn't give a shit about anything besides blocking people. And like he, his draft party was like him and his family at an Airbnb eating chicken wings. He told D 'Amico Ryan's on the phone when they called him, like, let's put some dudes in the dirt.

5:20Like everything about him is fixing that Houston Texans interior offensive line. And then you trade up ahead of the Giants to get Caden McDonald, who is a one year starter. It's, it's a little, I don't want to call it projection, but like there's, there's a little bit of risk there that he's going to continue to ascend and be the guy that he's going to be. that he looked like at Ohio State, but everybody is universally high that that's got a good chance of happening. And you just throw him into a defensive line that already has a bunch of monsters on it. And the message is, it's really clear where it's just like, we're going to move you.

5:56Like, we're going to own the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. With Rutledge in particular, I can't help but think back to the fact that, or the memory of this past season. How many times did we get on here after Texans games and make fun of them trying to run the ball. Yeah. And like get short yardage, like, oh, here, here go the Texans again. Maybe this time on third or fourth and one, it'll work. No, it didn't. Okay. And drafting a guy like Keelan Rutledge is, it's a direct response to that. I think their first four picks were trench players. If you count a tight end as like a guy that can block and the line on Marlon Klein seems to be that he can do some of that.

6:36and yeah I think the Texans got tired of getting pushed around on the offensive line and on the defensive line why not make a strength a strength looking back through talking to people in Houston

6:46Robert Mays: this weekend one of the notes from somebody there about Keelan Rutledge and I was asking he's all f***ing ball is and that's and that seems to be like everything I've heard about him is that and so that's I think that adding where they did just in terms of the roster and fortifying the interior of both lines. I think that's a message. I think the message to me is we want the areas of our roster that felt different than our defensive identity overall to be infected with that identity. We wanted those areas to feel more like the things that have come to define this era of the Houston Texans. And I think the offense just hasn't had those guys, right?

7:24Robert Mays: I think they're still searching for that mindset and that attitude and that identity offensively in a way they haven't been able to find it. And I think the whole point is, can Keelan Rutledge be for our offense what Kamari Lasseter is for our defense? And so they very purposely, I think, went out and sought that. Wyatt Teller is the same sort of thing. I think those things are tied together in a way. And the defensive interior, this is more of like we're fudging a little bit, but the defensive interior is the one area that didn't really have one of those difference-making pieces, right? Like just in terms of attitude.

7:55Robert Mays: Sheldon Rankins is a good player, but you look at the second level, the defense was with Aziz Alshire. You look at the secondary, which is just full of banshees and weirdos and crazy people. And then obviously the defensive end room is what it is. That interior defensive line is that one area of the roster where there wasn't that like, f*** you player. And Keelan McDonald, I think has a chance. Keelan and Caden is a tough one. Caden McDonald, I think, has a chance to be that for the Houston Texans defense. I do think Tommy Togiai is worth mentioning. But like if you're just talking about imbuing a unit with that type of talent and that type of attitude, I mean, you've seen the photos of Caden McDonald.

8:33He's got like the lacrosse player eye black when he plays football, like just looks absolutely terrifying.

8:39Robert Mays: They also haven't invested in that position, right? Like Tommy Togia is a cast off from the Browns, you know. Absolutely. Sheldon Rankins is somebody that like scooped up off the street after he had that really down year in Cincinnati. And so I think them making a concerted effort to be adding these sorts of pieces that you can feel, whether that's in terms of attitude, aggression, or the actual impact at those two position groups specifically. Those are really the last two spots where I think they needed that sort of injection. I think the Texans hopefully got it based on the guys they added.

9:08Their goal seems obviously to bully people. I mean, they can already do that on the defense, but why not try to make it even better, particularly at that position group? But really, Rutledge. And I love the idea of a guard center being like a foundational spark plug kind of guy. He can be, though. Yeah. No, I know.

9:30Robert Mays: I know with the Bucs. Yeah. Right? Like, those players absolutely can change the way a unit like that feels. I just, yeah. I mean, the defense gave them that sort of personality anyway, and it's one of the most obvious things to identify when you look at teams. Just like look at the attitude and the physicality on this defense and to try to spread it to the other side of the football makes all the sense in the world. My first one here is the message that the Philadelphia Eagles sent based on their first two draft picks. And that is, our offense is going to look different this year. Vastly. I had to sit there and think like, wait, okay, Philly, yes.

10:10Makai Lemon, Eli Stowers, and Makai Lemon.

10:12Robert Mays: And so you picked two guys. And it's interesting because I was wondering, I can't remember when Howie said this. It was either at his end of season press conference or at some point before the combine. And he was talking about the way that he saw the tight end position and how his views on it had sort of shifted. And if you look at the types of players they've sought out at that spot over the last like four to five years, It's been a lot of guys who weigh 245 or kind of receiving first sorts of players like in the Zach Ertz sort of mold. You know, Grant Calcaterra, Kylan Granson, those are typically the players they've sought out at that spot.

10:44Robert Mays: So I was wondering, are they going to add some more bigger bodied blocking types over the course of this offseason? They signed Johnny Muntin free agency, but I was wondering if that would extend into so many of the guys that we saw go on day two this year. It didn't really. They go with Stowers as their kind of tight at premium tight end addition of choice in this draft. And then they also draft them with Kyle Lemon in the first round. You can make an argument that the best deployment of both of those players in the NFL is going to be as slot receivers of some sort. Yes. And so now the two biggest things you did in the draft is add slot players who theoretically will be short to intermediate threats in the middle of the field for a quarterback who is just not access that area of the field.

11:28Robert Mays: which is a real thing by the way i was just looking up the numbers because like all right how drastic was this last year for jalen hurts so on throws in the seams or between the hashes per next gen last year jalen hurts had 203 attempts that is 27 fewer than any other full-time starter wow the guys that he was closer to then i think i can't remember who was above him in that list but it was somebody was at 230 and he was at 203 he was closer to jackson dart mac jones Tyler Shuck than he was to the next full-time starter in terms of his attempts in the seams or over the middle of the field last year, Jalen Hurts.

12:05I didn't know the numbers, but it becomes a meme when it's that drastic. Like it was rooted in fact, but I mean, the numbers make it even more stark.

12:14Robert Mays: So clearly, I just think that what the Eagles want to do on offense next year will be different based on the skill sets that they've added. What that looks like and how well that works, I think remains to be seen. but I think we will see a very different version of who the Eagles are. Because even as the coordinators have changed over the last few years, this has still been in a lot of ways the Jalen Hurts offense. I think they've tried to maintain some of that DNA and identity, and even when Kellen Moore came in, I think you're still trying to operate within the framework of what the offense had been previously.

12:47Robert Mays: I just don't think that's going to happen anymore because of how much has changed. What do you think you attribute that to? Like... The quarterback. No, but like the decision to do this, is it Sean Mannion saying like, this is what's going to help our offense? Okay. I think so. And, you know, you've seen people suggest on social media, whether jokingly or seriously, like the Eagles are basically trying to force Jalen Hurts to do more of this by giving him better options that can win in those sorts of ways. I'm just, I'm curious what the overarching thought process was that led to, again, and it's very obvious.

13:23Like we're not guessing at this. Like Eli Stowers is that sort of tight end and Makai Lemon has done so much over the middle of the field. Like this, this feels very intentional. And yeah, I guess I wonder if it's like a top down sort of thing or Sean Mannion wanting it for his sort of offense. I mean, I don't know if we can completely know the answer to that, but it's interesting to think about. I think what's important to note is that it's not just the offensive coordinator that's

13:48Robert Mays: been swapped out because over the last five years, over the first five years of the Nick Sirianni tenure in Philadelphia, even as the offensive coordinators moved, either because they were hired away to be head coaches or they were fired, all the other component parts of the offensive coaching staff mostly remained the same. The offensive line coach and run game coordinators about this entire time was one person. And Kevin Petulo, before he was the offensive coordinator last year, was the passing game coordinator across three different offensive coordinators. Now you have an offensive staff that even beyond Sean Mannion, you have Josh Chris Grizard is now there as the passing game coordinator.

14:24Robert Mays: Ryan Mahaffey, I think is how it's pronounced. He's the tight ends coach. It came over from Green Bay with Sean Manning, who's now the run game coordinator. And so now we just have very different people in charge of what the structure of that offense is going to look like. I think even as the coordinators changed over the last three or four years, they still held on to certain component parts and principles of the offense in part because the staff underneath them had remained the same. So I just think we're going to see pretty wholesale changes with this offense for the first time since Nick Sirianni has been there.

14:56Robert Mays: And beyond the coaching staff, I think the players they've sought out in this draft are an indication that we're heading that direction. And the players that they still might lose. That's the other quiet message that I think the Eagles have sent here. When you draft a receiver first round and trade up to get him, that was a that was a miss on my part, because during this whole process, I was pretty adamant that, I mean, obviously the Eagles have drafted receivers in the first round before, but Howie Roseman just loves to add big time talents on his fronts. I mean, whether it's an offensive tackle, whether it's a defensive lineman and the tackle run was part of that, right?

15:30Like maybe some of the guys they liked were already gone, but I thought it would be a trench player wherever the Eagles wound up picking. That's what I thought they would do. And to trade up, to make sure they got the receiver they liked. I don't know how you take any other signal away then aj brown might not be here for the long time well they got him at 20

15:48Robert Mays: right and in theory like honetra was there if they wanted to do that they wanted to add the long-term tackle prospect which we thought they might do is like a lane johnson succession plan we all thought that might be a possibility that's not what they ended up doing they get markel bell a little bit later in the draft it's like a kind of slow play that and they did get the difference making trench player they just traded a third round pick and paid 25 million dollars to do it which not what I expected them to do, but in totality, I mean, getting the 6 '9 guy to hang out for a year, that's pretty fun.

16:18And then, yeah, I mean, it doesn't count as a selection, but Grenard for two thirds is, I think that's really great business. And so like the totality of what the Eagles did is very fun, even if they do wind up losing A.J. Brown.

16:31Robert Mays: The other message the Eagles sent that I think is at least worth bringing up in this draft is that the Eagles told us we don't give a shit about picks outside of the top 100. They did. They showed us that multiple different times. Two fourths in that trade. The trade and then obviously also the trade for Grenard, right? Like I think they showed us the picks outside of the top 100. I really don't care. And that's something worth paying attention to. As we get into this place where more and more college players that would make up this part of the draft are staying in school. How teams like Philadelphia that I think are very thoughtful about where they're spending their resources or doing them in any given draft is a signal I think is worth paying attention to.

17:11And you made the point at some point during draft weekend that you get an extra three for Jalen Phillips next year. I mean, that's a guarantee with the size of the deal that he got.

17:20Robert Mays: I mean, that's partially why we'll trade this year's three because we're getting one next year in a draft that everyone feels a little bit better about. They're always doing things to make sure that they can move around the way that they want to. And that's what those outside of the top 100 picks are for. And I think in this draft and also just overall, all. I think a lot of teams that just are analytically driven and have that bent to their decision-making picks outside of the top 100 are as much for moving around the draft as they are for trying to find players in the draft. And I think the Eagles are probably the best example of that.

17:52Robert Mays: All right. What's your next message you want to talk about? My next one is the Kansas City Chiefs telling us who the hell's worried about the offense. When did we say that? I have one note i had the chiefs at the bottom says we need juice on defense they absolutely did that the chief sent us my favorite thing about this is the chiefs draft cycle was very contentious it was and i understand why because a team like this you would think is not going to pick in the top 10 very often and also no matter how many super bowls they've won when you're the standard for success in the nfl right now it just can't feel good for anybody in that building and for any Chiefs fan to miss the playoffs entirely.

18:33And so it felt very contentious to see what people thought about how they might use this pick. And there were a lot of people in the media space, a lot of people whose opinions I respect, who we talked a lot about receiver, and we talked a lot about offensive tackle. And those two things made people pretty mad because like drafting an offensive tackle, I get it. I mean, that sends a pretty clear signal. I know Jalen Moore's only got one year left on his deal, but drafting an offensive tackle in the top 10 one year after Josh Simmons would have sent a pretty clear signal that you're not comfortable with that, which is not a great place to be.

19:10So not only did the Chiefs not do any of that, they didn't use a pick on the offensive side of the ball until the fifth round. Emmitt Johnson, the Nebraska running back, four straight defensive picks. You get two guys to help on the defensive line after you trade up for Mansoor Delane. And we joked about it on Thursday night. Everybody was convinced, like, wow, the Chiefs, they find this cornerback talent all over the draft. You know, they can afford to wait on that. Spags is cooking up something. And Spags and Brett Veach were like, no, let's trade up for the best guy. Let's trade up for the best option possible.

19:44And so just to see them load up on defense, I mean, they wound up taking a receiver, Cyrus Allen, but, I mean, way down at 176. Like, that's gravy. You know, we're not factoring that into this year's plans. And so for all the hand-wringing and speculation about juicing up the offense, they leaned very heavily on defense. And it makes me think that they're expecting Kenneth Walker and some of the other young guys like Josh Simmons. I mean, to not do anything about that, I'm just like, okay, good. We're fine with Josh Simmons. I like to hear that because I thought his rookie season was really promising.

20:21So to see them lean so heavily away from offense felt like a clear signal to me.

20:26Robert Mays: The corner thing is interesting just because I think there are a lot of different layers to it. I think they trade up in part because with the injury to Jermon McCoy, you have one corner in that tier of players, right? And because it's only Mansoor Delane before you get to Chris Johnson way later in the draft. But see, that's the funny thing. You're right. But as we see every weekend with some of these teams, like it's not always so black and white. Like teams feel differently about this stuff. And I can't say I would have been surprised if the Chiefs had thought Chris Johnson was more than a good enough consolation prize.

20:59Obviously, they would have had to trade up for him in this scenario.

21:02Robert Mays: So I think the difference is, and this is why we do this a lot where it's like, well, this team doesn't really draft this position very high. So why would they draft a corner? That's surprising to us. But I think when you watch the Chiefs over the last couple of years, even a guy like Trent McDuffie, they didn't have the type of outside corner. Those players are good, right? Like Trent McDuffie went for a first round pick. He's not the highest paid corner in the league. Jalen Watson got paid. But I don't think they've had the outside cornerback presence since LeJarrius Sneed was playing at that level that allowed them to be the sort of defense they were at the end of the 2023 season when they could really bully people.

21:34Robert Mays: And that to me is, so the idea that they would overdraft a corner or be really aggressive in finding one in order to tap back into that, I think it does make sense because when you watch the Chiefs defense over the last couple of years, they're not passive in their approach, right? They're still sending a lot of heat. They're still doing a lot of the things that we ascribe to a Steve Spagnuolo defense. But it just felt like they were trying to get by. It just felt like they were kind of hanging on for dear life. It wasn't a dynamic unit. And I think this draft in particular shows us their interest and their urgency to get back to being that sort of unit.

22:09Robert Mays: You have a corner that can hopefully push you that direction. And with a guy like Delane, you are aggressive in drafting a polarizing sort of player in Peter Woods that you think the ceiling is there it's worth taking the ceiling swing and then our Mason Thomas for all of his shortcomings literally figuratively as a player you watch what he is off the edge and you look at some of the edge players they've had over the last few years like George Cofftis is a solid player you go get Charles Ameno who's a solid player they haven't had that like juice off the edge and so trying to add that sort of pop to all of these different position groups because we want to get back to a place as a defense where we are no longer catching, where we are the aggressor.

22:50Robert Mays: I think that makes a lot of sense when you've watched that unit over the last couple of years. When was the last time the Chiefs had an edge who screamed off the edge? Like it's been a long time. I mean, Frank Clark and Dee Ford come to mind. Yeah, Dee Ford, probably Dee Ford at his best. The Frank Clark thing was, that was an aggressive trade driven by a quarterback being on a rookie contract. I think the returns on that were mixed. Yeah, fair. Dee Ford was that sort of player. But when did Dee Ford? That was eight years ago. That was quite a while ago. So I think getting back to having, hopefully, those sorts of guys along with Chris Jones up front with a corner that you can kind of build everything around on the outside.

23:28Robert Mays: I think the Chiefs were clamoring for a different era of the Steve Spagnuolo defense and trying to get back to it. I'm in favor of it. It's the classic case of the draft where I like the picks that they made. Even like I wasn't as high on Peter Woods as Derek and plenty of other people, but dropping him in here and at that range in the draft where somebody would have taken him within the next five, 10 picks if the Chiefs hadn't. Like, I like that pick. I like R. Mason Thomas for the value. Obviously, I love Delane. The funny part is you just now you look at the roster and you're like, they really didn't do anything tangible at receiver.

24:05Like, I don't love that, but you can only do so much. Right. Juwan Jennings is still out there. That's true.

24:10Robert Mays: that's a great point i mean it's what we wanted them to do in like day one of free agency he is still out there if they want to do that although i think the chiefs have like negative cap space right now you can't literally before everybody i know you can't literally have negative cap space when the league year starts they have six million dollars in cap space right now without having signed their rookie class and so not a lot of financial wiggle room for the chiefs even though a lot of dudes right now other than mahomes playing on untouched space salaries trey smith Nick Bolton, Creed Humphrey, all guys that if they wanted to restructure, they probably could.

24:42I think, and we'll see when Mahomes becomes available, but Patrick Mahomes with a running back with legitimate pop is more than enough to make me think the Chiefs offense could be fine.

24:51Robert Mays: We can tie it all together. We need more juice. The 2026 Kansas City Chiefs offseason. All right, let's take our first quick break and then come back and chat about a team I think both of us had our eye on.

25:04It's smart to always have a few financial goals. And a really smart one you can set? Earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously. All of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card.

25:28Robert Mays: When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Granger gets it. and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery, so you can keep your facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done. Fill her home with beauty this Mother's Day. Take 20 % off a Pura Smart Home Fragrance Diffuser for a limited time.

26:07The perfect gift for every kind of mom or mother figure. Shop now at Pura.com.

26:19Robert Mays: We were joking about this on Twitter earlier today, but one of the messages that I absolutely loved from this draft, and I think it's been over the last two drafts, is the New Orleans Saints just telling us, we have decided to be normal. we're retiring the meme of uh why can't you just be normal and it's the saints screaming in the back of the car it all i've asked them to do it's so funny and i made this joke earlier today i'll rehash it again it is incredible how much better i feel about the saints now that they've employed this incredible practice called making all of the draft picks allotted to us did you see uh did you see mickey loomis's joke yes but it's like but mickey you understand why we're asking you like Like, it's you've done this so consistently.

27:02Robert Mays: Like, you can't make it. You can't be flipping about this. You've done insane things so often. If you're listening and you didn't hear Mickey Loomis sat down with the New Orleans media right after the draft and said, well, we didn't trade up and we drafted an LSU player. So I don't even know what y 'all are going to ask me about. The last two drafts, they've done normal things. They've just operated in a normal way. This is very new. Still, I went back to the 2024 draft. It's just it's fun. It's like a little scavenger hunt. You just go look at the Saints draft history and look at which picks are missing and figure out how they lost to them.

27:34Robert Mays: It's a fun little thing. You can go do it right now if you'd like in the 2024 draft. OK, so that was two years ago. Not a very long time ago. In that draft, the Saints had a first round pick and a second round pick and did not pick again until the fifth round when they picked Spencer Rauer. Some of those picks, you had that extra even with the extra two from the Peyton trade. They still only had two picks in the first four rounds because they were still paying off the trade up for Trevor Penning when they gave up that second round pick to the Eagles. And this is my favorite one in that draft. They traded a fourth round in the 2023 draft.

28:12Robert Mays: They traded a fourth round pick in 2024 to move up for Jake Hayner. That's so gross. What was, what did they pay in the Eagles trade? Do you have that in front of you? It's insane. It's the, the explanation for it. on like pro sports transactions where I look at all the draft pick trades. It's like a paragraph long. That's so gross, dude. So it's the...

28:38Robert Mays: The Eagles traded the 16th pick, the 19th pick, a sixth round pick to the Saints for 18, a third round pick in 2022, a seventh round pick in 2022, a first round pick in 2023, and a 2024 second round pick. So that's why one of those second round picks, even with the Peyton trade, they did not have because they were paying it off a year later. And that was like two years later. That was a full three years after Breeze, two years after. Like, why? Why are you operating that way? It's so it's so refreshing to see the Saints just operate like they don't think they're in a Super Bowl window. It's amazing because you look at what they came away with and it's like, oh, we have all of these picks.

29:23Robert Mays: to address areas of our roster that need addressing. And beyond the fact that they're making all the picks, they're making all the picks in a way that totally tracks and like where they're spending their resources. Like you look at what they did in the first four rounds of this draft. Going to get, we talked about this a lot over the weekend. Going to get Jordan Tyson fits perfectly with what Chris Olave is. Oscar Delp adding that sort of athlete to tight end. You added Noah Fant in free agency where he's a very specific sort of player. That's a contract that you didn't spend a lot on. And Delp is like a more well-rounded tight end that you can kind of develop over the next couple of years makes total sense.

29:57Robert Mays: Even Bryce Lance in the fourth round as that sort of skill set, like big bodied vertical player to go with a Lave and Jordan Tyson. That makes sense. And then Kristen Miller is exactly the type of player they need on that defense. So it's crazy how when you make all of your picks, you somehow are allowed to address several areas of the roster that need addressing. Not only that, but I love how much of it is skewed toward Tyler Shuck. Like the other message I think they sent is if Tyler Shuck's not the guy, it won't be because we didn't try to put him in a position to succeed. I mean, it goes back to free agency like David Edwards and Travis Achan.

30:35And then you add to that with arguably the best receiver in the draft. Oscar Delp, I don't want to get carried away. I don't know what his role is going to look like right away. But again, you're just adding pieces to the offense that can help things overall, help your young quarterback. Both of the receivers they took have traits that are enticing. Lance specifically, because he's so big and so fast. But Barry and Brown is a 4 '4 guy with returnability. Here's the comp it made me think of. It's actually not flattering. but I've talked a million times about, I actually do appreciate all the work the Titans did for Will Levis at the time.

31:15It didn't work, but give Tyler Shuck the infrastructure necessary to succeed so that if on the off chance, it doesn't work, you know why you're not like, well, who's he throwing to who's blocking for this guy? Like if everything else is set, it makes it so much easier to evaluate the quarterback. And obviously if Tyler Shuck is the guy, now we're really cooking with something. So I appreciate that the Saints, for the most part, I mean, I really love the Kristen Miller pick. Don't get me wrong. But for the most part, they're trying to help this guy. They're trying to give him a really nice infrastructure to see, you know, was this a mirage?

31:50Are we exaggerating how good he was over the last six, seven weeks? Or can we really build something here?

31:55Robert Mays: I also think that when you build up that infrastructure for that quarterback, if that quarterback doesn't work, the infrastructure is still there. It's still there? It still exists for whatever quarterback you want to drop in next, whether that's because you can thread a needle in the draft or because you can add a mid-tier veteran of some kind. Like those, those like small, cheap veterans, those are going to become less and less prevalent just because of the success that some of those guys would have had. And I don't know if we're going to talk about the Rams on the show, but I have to assume that that's driving the Rams thinking a little bit.

32:22Robert Mays: Like there aren't going to be Sam Darnold's for$10 million just hanging out there on the market anymore. And so our avenues to finding a guy are drier than they would have been maybe two or three years ago because of how the league is operated. But whoever it happens to be, if Shuck doesn't work out, the offensive line is still going to be there. This receiving core is still going to be there. You're still going to have the next guy set up for success if you do have to pivot off of Tyler Shuck. It's ironic because none of it has really worked for the Titans so far, but that's, they pivoted right off Will Levis to Cam Ward.

32:53Not a lot of that infrastructure was as good as it looked at the time.

32:56Robert Mays: Well, the problem with the Titans is the Cushenberry thing, the injury, you can't do anything about that. And then they spent a lot of their money in that offseason, a lot of their resources on defense, which that doesn't help your quarterback. And a lot of those bets did not pay off. LeJarrius Sneed being mentioned for the second time on this show. My favorite thing about the Saints this offseason, you look at it. So the last Saints free agent before this offseason, they signed two guys to like decent-sized free agent deals during the 2025 offseason. One was Chase Young, one was Justin Reed. Both of those contracts had four void years as part of those free agent deals.

33:35Robert Mays: If you look at every single major contract the Saints signed in free agency this year, Travis H.M., Caden Ellis, David Edwards, they just look like normal contracts. They're four-year deals. They go up in the increment you might expect. There's a signing bonus associated with them. And at the end of those four years, the deal ends. and it's just weird to see the Saints being able to operate this way. They have$60 million in 2027 cap space. Okay, but now it just makes me wonder how quick are they going to be? Like, they just need, like, the slightest opening or, like, the slightest reason for optimism to just push the pedal back down to the floor.

34:13What? Listen, I'm fine. We reset the books. All right, it's time to get crazy again.

34:18Robert Mays: If you, I'd have to think of, like, a real trade candidate whose contract is expiring next year. But if you get to week eight and you want to trade a second round pick for an edge rusher, you feel good about, right? They need an address. It's a perfect example. If you want to trade a third round pick for Kayvon Thibodeau because you think that that's going to be what really gives you a chance to compete in the NFC South. They have Tyree Wilson now. Don't forget about that. That's right. I forgot about the Tyree Wilson trade. So even if you still want to do this after the Tyree Wilson trade, that is something I can live with, right?

34:48Robert Mays: It trades being aggressive for players. that's acceptable being aggressive for draft picks that you don't know how good that guy is going to be that's where I really start drawing the line the penning thing the Marcus Davenport thing you've never seen that guy play an NFL game and you're going to trade a future first round pick to go get him for any position other than quarterback is an unacceptable decision and the Saints have done it multiple different times so there are versions of being aggressive that still fall in line with just be normal for a little while the fact that we've gone another draft without them just lighting a draft pick on fire is extremely encouraging to me.

35:24It's just fun to think of the Saints as a run-of-the-mill, encouraging, promising team and not an anomaly.

35:34Robert Mays: I don't think that you have to, like, this whole thing is like rocket science. Like, this isn't about, like, trying to throw a formula in there and maximize your chances with all these spreadsheets. It's just about getting out of your own way and watching them systematically try to get out of their own way over the last couple off seasons has been extremely nice. What's your next one? I'm going to stick in the division. The Carolina Panthers. I'm curious where you go with this. I was trying to decode what they were telling me, and I wasn't sure where I landed on it. I took it very, very literally, because all I know for sure is you can call the Carolina Panthers a lot of things.

36:12You're not going to call them small, damn it. this is a massive, massive draft class. And I know like right around the time they made their third pick, because it's like, all right, Monroe Freeling, the need makes sense. Iquanu got hurt. Like this is a perfectly solid choice. Then they take Lee Hunter and you're like, holy shit, there's some beef on this defensive line. Like, good Lord. Then they take Chris Brazel, who is 6 '4". and you're just like, they are just drafting massive human beings. They have to account for the quarterback. I mean, I didn't want to poke fun at it, but it's a very funny juxtaposition between how small Bryce Young is and how big the rest of this team is.

36:56And, like, look, we don't know how these guys are going to project quickly in their careers, but Will Lee is 6 '2".

37:02Robert Mays: The cornerback they took in the corner out of Texas A &M. Key Wheatley, the fifth-round safety out of Penn State, is 6 '3". Like they just took massive human beings every step of the way. Now go look at the rest of their roster. I mean, Jalen Phillips is, he's not like super hefty, but he's 6 '5". Derek Brown is 6 '5", 320. Bobby Brown is 6 '4", 321. The Panthers top three receivers, Tedaroa McMillan, Xavier Liget, and Jalen Coker are all 6 '2 or taller. Add Chris Brazel to that. He is a legit 6 '4". Travon Marig is a 6-2 safety. This is just a big goddamn team. I don't know what their overall thought process is, but I was looking through it, and I was just like, yeah, I'm not surprised the Panthers general manager played linebacker in the early aughts.

37:54Like, that was my main takeaway, really. Like, this is a large, large draft class, and I just, yeah, maybe it is because Bryce Young is on the smaller side, and, like, I say that kind of tongue-in-cheek, But if your quarterback is a little bit limited from a traits perspective and what he's physically capable of doing, maybe it's a good thing if the rest of your team is not limited in that way whatsoever.

38:19Robert Mays: I didn't have that through line in part because the Willie thing, I didn't realize he was as big as he is. It's a 6 '3 corner. Like, he's part of this conversation as well. They are all, like, literally all their draft picks, or at least all the major ones, are just huge people. Lee Hunter is in the 80th percentile for weight among interior defensive linemen since 1999. And I didn't say as measurables, if you don't know them, Monroe Freeling, the first round tackle, 90th percentile height, 84th percentile wingspan. Like, I would believe you if you told me they just set the sliders for size and took all the biggest people possible.

38:55Robert Mays: And even if you look at the corners they have on the roster right now, like Mike Jackson is a big corner. He's 6 '1", 210. JC Horn is like a big physical presence for a corner. He's six foot, almost 6 '1", 205. And so they really do have like big dudes at all these positions. We didn't really talk about the Panthers very much in the round three kind of overall wrap up. But when you look at what they did, like obviously who knows what's gonna happen with a fifth round safety, but like Zaki Wheatley was in Dane's top 100. I like Zaki Wheatley a lot. Zaki Wheatley was in Dane's top 100. Sam Hecht is a guy, the center out of Kansas State that they got in the fifth round, some people had him as their favorite center in the entire draft.

39:35Robert Mays: I'm pretty sure that Brandon Thorne, he was, Hecht was his favorite center prospect in this entire draft. And if you look at the roster overall, they obviously needed the left tackle with the questions about Aquanu moving forward. Mike Jackson, I believe this is the final year of his deal that he signed and he played phenomenal last year, but he's going to be, I think this is his age 30 season. And so trying to find some sort of succession plan for outside corner, I think makes total sense. and center is a big question for them. They went out and got Lee Fortner in free agency. It hurt my feelings a little bit when I was putting this together.

40:07Luke Fortner gives up a considerable amount of size to Cade Mays. Like Cade Mays is an enormous guy.

40:12Robert Mays: He wasn't the center to start though, right? Corbett was the guy, but even Corbett is a converted guard. Corbett played a lot of guard in his career before playing center for the Panthers last year or for the last couple of years. And so then he's, Corbett's 6 '4". So you go out and you get a potential center answer. they safety the other safety spot was absolutely something they needed to address I mean Lathan Ransom they drafted last year but the guy next to Trevin Merrig is I think that's a spot where there's plenty of competition necessary so this is one where if they thread the needle on a couple of these guys and Hecht and Wheatley can kind of beat the odds as fifth round picks and become contributors in positions of need like there is a chance that this draft looks really good for the Panthers if they can get even some contributions from any of these guys positionally like where they went.

40:55No, I like their class a lot. And like I said, it's, it's slightly a joke, but if your quarterback is limited, surround him with super mutants who are not limited and see what happens. And that was kind of the impression that I got looking back over this thing. I mean, my God, like Ted Aroa McMillan and Chris Brazel as like two of your top three guys is Coker's not small. No, Coker's six, three. They're like, they're all huge. And the one funny thing, I was looking through this and I was like, okay, well, Jimmy Horn's 5 '8". So that kind of detracts from my point. But he was like a sixth or seventh round pick.

41:29Robert Mays: Yeah. And I think that them drafting Brazel where they did is probably an indication that we may see a little bit less of Jimmy Horn as a number three receiver this year. Big, big, big football team. All right. The Chicago Bears sent like six messages in this draft. We can parse several of them. The one that I wanted to talk about is the message they sent by what they didn't do. and the fact that they did not draft the defensive linemen in this draft until very late and did not address the edge room nearly as early as people expected them to to me is an indication that they feel better about the group that they have than the outside perception might suggest and something that ben johnson said yesterday i believe i found really interesting after talking about some of the guys he thinks will be more impactful this year shamar turner coming back from injury dio day about coming back from injury, Austin Booker playing in the second half of the season.

42:22Robert Mays: He said, we have to coach better. We're going to coach better this year. That is going to be a part of why that group is going to be better. And I'm curious what he means by that. My assumption is when you watch the Bears front last year, they were not an impactful group. It was also not a dynamic pass rush plan. You look at Cody Alexander's numbers on match quarters. The Bears were 31st in the NFL last year in stunt rate. So this is not a defensive line and a defensive coaching staff that I think is being really creative in how they're deploying these guys. And I wonder if we see that change a little bit as part of their plan to get more out of the guys who are already on the roster.

43:03Robert Mays: Because he said that multiple times yesterday, Ben Johnson. We were going to coach that group better this year. And the defensive line coach is the same. And so I really wonder what he's getting at by framing it that way. and I also that makes my eyebrows go up because Dennis Allen is the defensive coordinator there same guys same guy and like and highly regarded as well at least as a defensive coach and so not trying to say that's like a shot at Dennis Allen but I don't know wouldn't you say erase last year's pass rush from your memory because I know it was tough to watch at times But like, I think of Dennis Allen as a guy who can get the most out of what he has in that situation.

43:46And so leaning on coaching like, oh, well, we weren't doing enough last year when you have a very highly regarded defensive mind is definitely interesting to me.

43:55Robert Mays: I think it'll just feel different in some ways. And I think that the amount of twists, stunts, games, just again, trying to manufacture pressure where you can get by or you can accentuate the talent you have more than they did last year. That would not surprise me if we saw a different plan in terms of how those guys were unleashed this year compared to last year. That's a little bit of cope, right? Like, I think it's much, much easier to just drop in. Between you and Beller and Scott, I mean, we got a lot of Bears fans here. I've seen the whole gamut of cope over the last few days. There's nothing, I mean, there's nothing you can do about it, right?

44:27Robert Mays: Like this is it. Like it's over now. They didn't add anybody. So now what is the plan moving forward to make this feel a little bit better? And I will say if we're digging further into the coat bucket, Austin Booker only played nine games last year. There were no games or maybe one at the very most with Austin Booker and Dio Dangbo both on the field. Shamar Turner is a guy they drafted in the second round last year. He played 75 snaps. And so this idea of they were going to draft an edge high, I think in terms of on-field impact, it makes total sense. If you look at the roster, there's a shitload of guys on the roster that they've committed to and paid and invested in and so the fact that they're looking at that group and being like hey this is it like we've already spent our resources on this group we just need to get more out of them they've kind of put themselves in that position and especially when you combine it with the Grady Jarrett contract and how much they're paying him it's like the Dias cast with the defensive line at least for the next year or so we'll have more resources if we can move on from a couple of those guys in 2027 But right now, this is what we got.

45:25Robert Mays: And we're just going to have to do what we can to get more out of them. These are all things that sound good in the wake of the draft. And, you know, guys like Jadeveon Clowney love signing contracts in August or September in some cases. Like Joey Bosa is still out there, I think. That's also an option. Not to say that that's some kind of cure-all, but there are ways that you can address this later if you feel like you need to. A hundred percent. And the Bears are also a team that does not have a lot of financial wiggle room. And so that might be fueling this as well. But there is absolutely a chance that you're looking at the players you could have found in the third round.

46:01Robert Mays: And then you're looking at some of the veteran edge rushers that are available. And you're like, this guy for six million bucks is going to give me way more than whatever developmental edge I was going to draft in the third round. A fun thing that I learned covering a team is like for the next month, everybody loves their picks. like he we can't believe he fell to us in this place and he's exactly what we wanted and you know you're gonna have 10 to 12 opportunities to evaluate these guys not in a padded setting but you're gonna get to evaluate them on the grass with veterans on the field and uh it can change your opinions a little bit and not to say you're gonna like write guys off entirely but i think uh it's a little bit easier to be realistic after you've seen some of your rookies play football for a little while and and i don't i don't think it's a coincidence that teams do these sorts of things after they've seen mini camp and otas and all that fun stuff the other one message wise i think the bear's sense in this draft is our offensive identity is the most important thing can't say i blame them that is the most important thing the logan jones thing overdrafting him maybe a little bit compared to consensus because of the skill set he's bringing and then drafting roush where they did this is just a very clear like we are going to prioritize the type of team we want to be offensively and we will figure the rest out.

47:21I think that's worth pointing out to we've talked about this half a dozen times. Like it's OK if the Bears are not like built like a contender today. That's completely fine. And I think it's worth giving them credit. They got screwed by fate. Drew Dahlman decided to retire out of nowhere one year after signing a deal. And that's not to hate on Drew Dahlman. Do do what makes you happy, my guy, but you get dealt that blow two weeks, a month before free agency, and you have to pivot. And I think they have done an admirable job, like Garrett Bradbury can handle this for the year. And now you've got a succession plan in place.

47:57You probably would have preferred not to spend two draft picks addressing center this year, considering you just signed Drew Dahlman, but you got to roll with the punches. And I would way, way rather, I would way, way rather have adequately dealt with center and have that in place, considering who Ben Johnson is and the quarterback and all that stuff. I'd way rather have that figured out and be nervous about the pass rush than vice versa.

48:25Robert Mays: Drew Dahl or Garrett Bradbury is making$5.7 million this year. If Logan Jones is better than Garrett Bradbury, I think you just roll with that. And I think you should be open to the idea of him being better than Garrett Bradbury based on where you drafted him. Even if he's not, though, I'm also OK paying Garrett Bradbury$5 million for a year. And Logan Jones is a great swing interior offensive lineman to have. Like, that's totally fine. All right. Well, let's take one more quick break and then come back and chat about our last couple messages here.

48:58It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously. All of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. Make Mother's Day even more special at Whole Foods Market. Kick off brunch or dinner with quality cheese and charcuterie with no synthetic nitrates. Then go see food. There's an abundance on sale at Whole Foods Market, where it's all sustainable while caught or responsibly farmed.

49:38At the bakery, grab seasonal treats like their strawberry pretzel cream pie, and you can't go wrong with a ready-to-heat quiche Lorraine, deviled eggs, and fresh-cut fruits to go. Celebrate mom with Whole Foods Market. One second, you're enjoying your day off. The next, your phone buzzes. A window's been broken at home. You're miles away. In one second, everything can change. That's why ADT's professionally installed security systems monitor your home 24-7. They're backed by the most company-operated monitoring centers in the industry, so you're always supported during an emergency. When every second counts, count on ADT.

50:15Visit ADT.com to learn more.

50:30Robert Mays: give me your full one here my full one half this is this is one that i wanted to make sure i got in there and it's a team that didn't make a first round pick but i think we need to give them the credit of saying the cincinnati bengals sent a clear message of we're trying not to screw this up twice we're trying not to make the same mistakes with joe burrow that we did with carson palmer and i think that's worth acknowledging like we have so many of these conversations about the value of the pick and like, oh my God, Dexter Lawrence for number 10 overall. Can we sit for a moment in the fact that the Cincinnati Bengals traded a top 10 draft pick to make their team better?

51:10Do you know how insane that is? This is a team, I think from like from the beginning of their existence to 2014, they traded up in the draft like five times. And from 2014 to now, they've only done it a handful of times and usually it's like a minor trade to go get like cam taylor brit like the idea that the bengals would send a pick that big to another team for a player is wild and yes it makes their defense immediately better if he's healthy dexter lawrence is one of the best interior defensive linemen in the league but i think the message is really really important that like, hey, we're not the most liquid ownership in the NFL.

51:52There's always, we're always going to have to do things a little bit differently than some other teams, but we are trying. We give a damn. And we want our franchise quarterback to feel like he's got a shot to win a championship here. I think it sends a very clear signal to me. On top of all the other stuff, maybe this wasn't the sexiest draft. Maybe this was a good year to do that. But for the Bengals to step that far outside of their comfort zone, I think it's I think it's very meaningful. And I've noticed that over the last year or so, too, like it's a very NBA thing to be like, oh, where's he going to be in three years when his deal is up?

52:27Because there's no way he wants to be there. We don't really do that in football because every team in the league has a chance. But you can also franchise a guy. Well, yeah, I mean, we also have incredible levers to maintain control over players. but we're doing that with burrow right now where it's like it kind of pisses me off i like i we

52:45Robert Mays: can do the we can joke about the rams thing which now that it's off the table i actually think i enjoy that but this whole thing of like oh joe burrow's just gonna be playing for the rams in three years just like probably not he's probably not i agree with you and i agree with you even more seeing the bingles do something like this to to give a damn like this is a very give a shit sort of move and I do and on top of that from a football perspective I think it makes a lot of sense like you asked me on Saturday if the Bengals had known that Caleb Downs and Reuben Bain would be available at 10 would they still do this and I with a bullet I would do it yeah I would absolutely do it I think he can raise the floor of your defense that much you've added Jonathan Allen and Boye Mafé Dexter Lawrence should make those guys look a hell of a lot better you add in two signings in the secondary like it's not going to be the best unit in the league but the Bengals have taken very real steps to make their defense respectable this year and that's all it should need to be if Joe Burrow and all the offensive pieces are healthy so uh I just I thought that was cool and this isn't anybody doing a trade like that it's the Cincinnati Bengals and that's pretty wild I totally agree I mean in the moment that was my first response is that I think that there is a there's something to watch in the Bengals being the team that did this on a few different levels and the Bengals right now the Bengals have in 2027 salary cap space the Bengals have like 60 million dollars in 2027 salary cap space they came into this offseason with a ton of cap space in this era this idea of and this plays into the would you rather have Caleb Downs and Reuben Bain over Dexter Lawrence than the overall pick the two things that make Caleb Downs and Reuben Bain better than Dexter Lawrence with in that in terms of how you use that draft pick.

54:29Robert Mays: One is age, right? You'll have more time with them. And the second is surplus value. Surplus value only goes so far when there aren't that many players to spend the money on. And that is a world that the Bengals lived in this offseason. It's like, you can only sign so many free agents. And I think with the Bengals in particular, why this matters, the Bengals are never going to be at the top of the list for the most sought after free agents because of the way they structure their contracts. There's no signing bonus in Brian Cook's deal. He has$14 million guaranteed. That's it. Those are the only guarantees in Brian Cook's$3 or$40 million deal where he has a$13.4 million AAV.

55:11Robert Mays: The Bengals just do their contracts differently. And so you're not going to be in the running for the best free agents, even if you have the money. And so if you have a little bit of excess cash to spend against the cap, using a draft pick in order to find a player worth spending on is a good way to do that. And the fact that the Bengals are willing to adopt that line of thinking, I think shows you how that's crept into a lot of different buildings in terms of how teams are thinking about this. Yeah, I mean, if the Bengals are doing it, that means everybody, like they're going to be the last ones to that party.

55:42Robert Mays: And that includes, and he came out and said today during his post-draft press conference, Duke Tobin, for the first time when they asked about restructuring Burroughs' deal, it wasn't a like, no, we're not doing that. It was, we'll see. And the fact that the Bengals are slowly, potentially adopting these sorts of levers, I think is a very good thing if you were a Bengals fan. And at times, I think it's fair to at least ask the question of, you know, you've soured your relationship with the number one overall pick and had to ship him out of town once. Are you really going to let that happen again?

56:16And for their part, the Bengals are saying no. I mean, we signed your receivers. We signed your tight end. We traded for a difference maker on defense. Like, again, they're always going to be more limited than some other NFL teams, but they're trying. And I think that's worth saying.

56:32Robert Mays: My other favorite part of the Bengals draft is that they drafted Cassius Howell. And so you have another Texas A &M pass rusher. That's essentially the funhouse mirror version of the Texas A &M pass rusher you drafted the year before. The freaky guy with no stats and the very unfreaky guy with a lot of stats. Well, he's freaky, but right. But he's just built in a weird way, right? Like he just has very, very short arms. He's built in a, I mean, it's a, it's a bad year to call him unprecedented because Reuben Bain is there. But his arms are shorter than Reuben Bain's arms, aren't they? Are they?

57:04So this goes back to the, how the combine screwed up all the measurables. I think Reuben Bain is like 30 and seven eighths. And I think Cassius Howell got a flat 31. 30 and a quarter for Cassius Howell. Woof. I thought his were longer for some reason.

57:18Robert Mays: So his arms are shorter than Reuben Bain's arms. Two of the best pass rushers in college football on two of the best teams in college football had historically short arms in the same draft class. It's very weird. One of my, the best part about this, so Cassius Howell's 6 '2 1⁄2", 253, 30 1⁄4-inch arms. Shamar Stewart, 267, 34 1⁄8 for Shamar Stewart in terms of arm length. Yep. their 40 10 yard split and 20 yard split are the exact same 459 158 266 that's wild so you have guys with the exact same like twitch movement ability smart turners or smart stewards jumps are crazy but the fact that their 40s and splits are the exact same and you have one guy who's like a shrunken pass rusher and the other guy who's this massive project it's just very funny that they came from the same school and they're like weird parallels between them.

58:13I had somebody tell me during the draft process that they thought, I mean, Howell's tape speaks for himself. And it's kind of like I was told, I think he'll be really successful and really, really good if he can go somewhere where he's cherry on top sounds bad, but like a complimentary player to a stable of already established pass rushers. And it's probably up to you to decide if the Bengals meet that criteria. But what I would say is he's a

58:42Robert Mays: complimentary piece to the body types and skill sets they have in that room. I would agree. And that's the nice part is that if you're open to a player like this for the role he's going to play, and he's mostly going to play for you in defined passing situations as a rookie, that's possible in part because of the other body types that they have in that edge room. We'll see what happens with Shamar Stewart in year two, everything else. But Miles Murphy, Shamar Stewart, I mean, they've got big guys in that room that theoretically should be able to play for you on early downs. And then you add Boyamafe to the mix now.

59:13Like it's if I am, if I'm a Bengals fan and let's be honest, I'm like a pseudo Bengals fan because of who plays offense for them. If I was a Bengals fan, I'd be coping my ass off talking about how Dexter Lawrence is going to unlock all of these guys. Like we've got all this talent at edge. We just needed somebody to make all their lives easier. Like I'd be saying that to anybody who will listen.

59:37Robert Mays: My last one here, don't spend a ton of time on this. I think the message that the Titans sent and their draft this year is this is Robert Salas team. No. Like you look at what they did with their first second with their second first round pick and then what they did in the second round. The first pick with Carnell Tate, we're helping the quarterback, right? Like that's that message is clear. Like we're willing to draft a guy. Maybe people didn't expect us to draft this early because our number one priority is making sure that Cam Ward is surrounded with the right pieces. And I completely understand that after the way that last year went.

1:00:09Robert Mays: You get Calvin Ridley back this year, hopefully he's healthy, but them kind of leaving no doubt about how many viable options Cam Ward would have this season totally makes sense to me. But then you look at the Keldrick Falk and Anthony Hill picks, and that to me is a, we're seeking out the exact types of players that Robert Sala has wanted on those defenses over the last however many years. It was funny on Thursday night where nobody saw Carnell Tate going to Tennessee, especially with defensive options on the board, like with Arvel Reese there and Sonny Stiles, for that matter. Nobody saw that coming.

1:00:45And it was like, whoa, good on them for prioritizing the quarterback. I never saw that coming. And then they immediately trade up for like the big, long, you know, guy that looks the part first off the bus guy. and it's like, okay, Sala got his. He just had to wait a couple hours.

1:01:02Robert Mays: I mean, you look at what the Niners, the types of players that the Niners have drafted along the defensive line when Robert Sala has been there. Like the fact that Sala is one year back last year was the year they drafted Mikel Williams. And then you go back, you know, to the, DeForest Buckner was before they got there, but like the Eric Armstead and DeForest Buckner and like the fact that they lean so heavily on players of like that archetype and skillset, not surprising at all. that they wanted a guy like Keldrick Falk in that spot. And then again, the rangy, long linebacker that they drafted in the second round, going and getting the long tweener defensive lineman and the rangy, long linebacker as your first two defensive picks of the Robert Sala era, no ambiguity about who's in charge of the body types and skill sets we're seeking out when it comes to how this defense is going to get built.

1:01:53As a Falk believer, it's no guarantee that it pans out, but Robert Sala wanting him enough to trade up, I was like, all right, I'm not stupid. It doesn't mean I'll be right, but I'm not crazy if Robert Sala thinks the same thing I do. We talked about this in real time.

1:02:08Robert Mays: Mikel Williams went 11th in a much better draft than this one. Keldrick Falkoing at 31, yes. I was, you know, I thought he might fall, but I thought falling for him would be 20 to 23. So yeah, once you, I mean, at 31, and that feels like a no-brainer even with the trade. And I think, what, they gave up like a third and a fifth? Yeah. That's fine. I'm cool with that. And the other part is Oladejo was a very, he was a unique player that to me was an expression of the previous coaching staff. And the fact that they spent a second-round pick on an edge rusher last year and then went out this offseason, traded to Vandre Sweat for Jermaine Johnson, and then traded up back into the first round for Keldrick Falk after spending a second-round pick on Oladejo last year, that is a we're seeking out different sorts of players for this staff which it makes total sense right like they are going to there's enough shared dna with a lot of defensive systems around the league where there's plenty of overlap the niners have a very specific way of playing they are one of those four down attack fronts which we still have four or five of those still left around the league and so them making a pretty hard left turn to seeking out players that fit that vision probably shouldn't be surprising but i think what they did sent a very clear message that they are doing exactly that.

1:03:26I forgot John Franklin Myers and Jermaine Johnson are there too. One of these years being excited about the Titans is going to pay off. Maybe it's this year. I might get there.

1:03:37Robert Mays: I might get there as I think more about Cam Ward throwing to Carnell Tate. Any others you wanted to mention before we get out of here? Yeah, it's not new. They do it every time they change a staff, but the Cowboys just handed the reins to Christian Parker. Like, well, so obviously. I mean, five of their seven draft picks were on defense, including three. The first three were all defense for the first five were defense. You add Caleb Downs to be a nickel and a safety and just set the tone for what you want your defense to be. You get a high upside edge rusher, even. He's a fourth round pig. It's not the sexiest thing in the world, but L.T.

1:04:16Overton is just the type of guy that the Cowboys would have never drafted. and now you're moving to what makes you say that because he's uh i mean i i expect him to play like big end in base and be like a guy who can kick inside i mean he's 6-3 he was 287 at his pro day this is a guy that you're gonna play him at 4i and 5 tech and all and like he's gonna be at the point of attack and hold up against the run and do all the nasty shit that makes the edge rushers look good that's what i would expect him to do and in previous schemes the cowboys just wouldn't draft that guy they'd be like ah where's the bend where's the production getting sacks and stuff like that and so downs obviously but i think downs is a guy you can adapt to any scheme in the world um but overton specifically i'm just like okay this is a guy that dallas does not draft until christian parker gets here and clearly i think that the staff has a vision in mind for what he might be and so like when when big departure picks like that happen it makes you pay attention you trade for d winners during the course of the draft so i mean you use five picks on defense including your biggest two and you trade for a starter at linebacker it's christian parker's show and also it signals to me the cowboys don't think they're that far away from having a defense that can make them respectable in that division and i tend to agree with them i don't know if all these guys are going to pan out but i think they took a few swings over the course of the last four days that, I mean, if the offense is anything close to what we saw last year, I think this defense can be much better pretty quickly based on what they've done.

1:05:56Robert Mays: I would pay a real amount of my own money to be a fly on the wall as Christian Parker and Caleb Downs talk about football together. Wow. Yeah. But I just, I would pay like, here's like$500. Just let me sit in the corner and I won't eat like nothing. This is all off the record. This is totally just for my own edification. I just want to sit here and watch them talk because as somebody who has talked to Christian Parker about football multiple different times over the last several years, as he's been in multiple roles with several different teams and everything I've heard about Caleb downs, they're just going to be two peas in a pod, just sitting there and talking about every single possible iteration.

1:06:35Robert Mays: They're going to see from whatever offense they're playing that week. So I think personality wise, and in terms of the football IQ collectively they're putting in that building. I think that's a very nice marriage. Yeah. I think this, this projection about the Cowboys defense being a better unit, it hinges pretty heavily on him being the guy that I think he is, but he's, I mean, he's one of those prospects where everyone I've ever talked to says the same thing, like across different buildings, across like scouts, coaches. I mean, on draft weekend, the Cowboys scouting staff was talking about how he was on people's radars when he was still in high school, let alone being a star as a true freshman and everything that's happened since then.

1:07:17So it's a lot of expectation, but everything I've heard makes me think he can live up to it. All right.

1:07:24Robert Mays: That is all we got with the messages sent today. We'll be back tomorrow. Me and Fran Duffy, as I mentioned earlier today, we're going to be doing a show just with some thoughts that may have shifted now that we've had a little bit of time to sleep on some of the decisions that were made by these teams over the last few days. We reacted to every single pick of the first two nights of the first three rounds in real time. Sometimes your thoughts about that stuff changes when you have more time to sit with it. And so that's what tomorrow's conversation is going to be. Maybe some things that we feel a little bit differently about now that we've had a little bit of time and distance from them.

1:07:59Robert Mays: Very much looking forward to having that conversation with Fran. And then we'll be back later this week with kind of our last look at the draft being what questions do we still have? What holes need to be filled? what needs have not been addressed by some of these teams as the draft wraps up. So those will be our last two draft shows. Very much looking forward to both of those. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating.

1:08:32Robert Mays: We'll see you next time. It's smart to always have a few financial goals. And a really smart one you can set? Earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously. All of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up, and audit dread? It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place, and cuts audit prep by 82%.

1:09:11Robert Mays: Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals. Zero chaos. Call it compliance or call it compliance. Get it? Join the 15 ,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to Vanta.com slash com. refresh the rooms you love for spring with pura's collection of floral citrus and fresh scents bright airy and made for the season open the door to spring in every room learn more at pura.com