The storylines we didn't talk enough about this offseason

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1:37Training camp is five, six days away for some of these teams. And so very soon we will be turning the page to what we call preview stuff on the athletic football show. Questions that we have about the upcoming season, breaking down new quarterbacks, new play callers, who are the best offenses going to be? Who are the best defenses going to be? Who are some of the X factors we're looking at? Second year players that we're paying attention to. We've got all that stuff planned for the next month or so. But today we wanted to spend one more show looking back a little bit at the offseason and looking back at the teams that for whatever reason on our lingering question shows, some of the other mainstay things that we did in May and June, we just didn't talk about these teams.

2:20We didn't spend a lot of time talking about the Buffalo Bills this summer. We didn't spend a lot of time talking about the Carolina Panthers or the Philadelphia Eagles. And so what we spent today doing is trying to figure out why, like, why did those teams for some reason just kind of fall between the cracks a little bit? Why didn't we feel compelled to really dig into this set of eight teams over all the shows we did in May and June. And it actually led to a pretty fun discussion. Like, why didn't we talk about these teams? And if we were going to, what are some of the topics that we should have hit over the last couple months?

2:56That's what we did today with me, Dave and Derek. Let's get to that conversation right now.

3:11We're getting to the end of the summer, my guys. We're getting very close here. Training camp starts up for some of these teams in like four or five days. So we're kind of coming to an end with what our offseason content looks like. Holy shit, dude. I know that some teams are reporting on July 22nd, but in my brain, that is not four or five days from now. But as we sit here, it is Cardinals and Panthers. That's terrifying, which will be my first two stops because they start a little bit earlier than everybody else. So we have always done. I made this joke earlier this week to Beller. I feel like Mel Gibson and Braveheart all of June and all of July when it comes to preview content, it's like, hold, hold.

3:50We're not going to start turning our focus to the season quite yet, but we're slowly, not slowly, we're quickly getting there. So today we wanted to hit some of the teams that for whatever reason in that suite of off-season content, we just didn't talk about very much. and along with kind of digging into those eight teams we also wanted to talk dave about why we didn't discuss those teams like what were the reasons that as we did a million shows from may 1st when the draft ended to july 17th as we sit here right now why did some of those teams kind of fall through the cracks that's what we're going to try to dig into today which we came about very organically like in a production meeting we were just like why why haven't we talked about that this is a show and here we are so that's what we're going to do today the eight teams that we felt like didn't get a ton of attention we're going to discuss why we didn't talk about them or what maybe some of the reasons were and if we had talked about them what are the things we should have discussed so that's what we're digging into today we're going to start with the first of two nfc south teams that we're going to talk about today and that is the atlanta falcons dave why do you feel like we did not talk about the atlanta falcons very much this year i would say i remember having a conversation about the falcons back in the free agency draft era period march april whatever where we collectively kind of agreed that the atlanta falcons are in a holding pattern sim to end yes like they hired kevin stefanski which on the surface i i'm willing to say and i know stefanski's had his detractors over his time in cleveland especially with the way that they downturned offensively, but I think Kevin Stefanski is a good coach.

5:33I think Falcons fans are right to be excited about him, but when you look at what they've done or maybe what they did not do, they just very clearly seem to anything. Exactly. They seem to me like a team that is just getting their ducks in a row for trying harder next year. And so I guess I met their energy with that energy. I was like, all right, if y 'all don't want to do anything, I don't have a whole lot else to say about this this was very much a team where everything was either coaching changes obviously on offense or we're just hoping some young players take a step next year like that's kind of their entire approach and offensive like I kind of get some of that but yeah we didn't talk about them because it's like at least as far as like a real impact players it's all the same guys it's still Drake London it's still Bajon Robinson the offensive line is basically the same like it's most of the same dude like they bring back Kyle Pitts or like you know they signed him to the extension, which we all thought like it just felt like a lot of the things they did were kind of the beats that we expected and they didn't do anything that that was like super exciting.

6:35You didn't think we should have done an emergency pod for the Caleb McGarry retirement and subsequent Ron Taylor signing? No, I think we're probably good on that one. Everything about this team this offseason speaks to them entering the year in a feeling out period. What does this look like? What are we really pull back on the spending because we had been pretty aggressive over the last couple off seasons, whether that's signing Kirk Cousins to a massive deal, drafting a quarterback in the top 10 in the same year, you assign Kirk Cousins to that big deal, trading away a future first round pick in last year's draft because the front office felt like their feet were to the fire a little bit.

7:11They didn't have a first round pick, so they didn't spend any money. They didn't have a first round pick. This all feels like a transition year for Atlanta. And I think that's why they probably weren't at front of mind for us. What should we have talked about, Derek? If we were going to give the Falcons the same sort of treatment we gave some of these other teams, whether it's in the lingering question shows, some of the other things that we did, what would have been the right approach if we were going to fold the Falcons into some of that? I think for me, I think anytime a team hires an offensive coach, it's easy to go do that.

7:42But like, we kind of know what Stefanski is. They didn't really add a whole lot of talent on the offense. I don't think it's going to be that different. I think for me, it's investigating like how good or how real was what they were doing on defense really because last year they were kind of an oddity they were not a good run defense but when they got to passing downs olberg did a great job of bringing all this funky shit especially his pressures and they were able to get home they were able to generate some negative plays able to get some turnovers and that part of it was like what you know they had sold us it was going to be when they draft two edge rushers and and they draft all these young dbs and i think investigating how real some of that was is probably what we should have done more of and like how much can they fix some of the run defense issues they had last year to actually make all of this worthwhile because i think them and the giants were the two defenses where it was like the pass rush looks like it's there you can't get an into enough of those downs for it to matter and did they really fix that this offseason which i'm not sure they did but we i think we do we should we should talk about the dbs a little bit more those guys are pretty good we talked about it on the um breakout player draft that we just did.

8:47Yeah, we hit them both. It's not to say that the Falcons don't have exciting pieces. And honestly, like, I think for a lot of teams that, I think this is going to be a theme on this show. Just because we didn't talk about them doesn't mean they don't have the potential to be a good team. Like, I can squint and see a world where the Falcons surprise some people. And yeah, their secondary is a big piece of that. I mean, Jesse Bates continues to be one of the most underrated players in the league. We talked about Bowman and Watts and how exciting they were as rookies. We got the Terrell reunion now that they drafted Avion to go along with AJ.

9:23I mean, that's super exciting to watch. So there are a lot of interesting pieces here, even if the decision-making of the Falcons suggests that they don't see themselves as any type of contender, which I don't blame them for. It doesn't mean that this is like a bad roster or a bad team. I think they'd like to be competitive in the NFC South. And I think that's completely realistic, by the way. Beyond that, who knows? But I think they'd like to be competitive in the NFC South. I'm totally with Derek. Like, that's the thing. If we easily could have folded the Falcons into one of those lingering question shows, you know, what should we make of a Falcons defense that was just demonstrably better than we ever could have hoped?

10:01I mean, last year, this is me rationalizing this, by the way. So last year, the Falcons were picked to finish dead last in DVOA on defense by FTN before the season started. They finished 12th. this year the bears were picked to finish dead last before this started so if we could have a similar sort of increase that would be great but atlanta i mean we're they were so much better on defense than we ever could have thought and they did it in a really interesting way and i thought that you know jeff ulbrick his own personal evolution from what he had been as a defensive play caller and the tree he had come from and then what atlanta's defense looked like last year was incredibly interesting and i think because the offense didn't really hold up its end of the bargain we didn't talk about the falcons that much and how much the defense was really lifting them because overall it just didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things for them to be a player in the nfc south so i it's funny derek you said i don't know if they fixed it i don't think they tried to fix anything this offseason if anything they let it go because anything and they if anything they let it go because they let caden ellis walk and they like signed christian harris to replace him which like perfectly fine replacement level linebacker but like not nearly as good as Kate Nellis.

11:08And the defensive line moves they made were weird. Like all they did was the trade for Ruka Roro, giving him to the Jaguars and taking back Mason Smith. Like helps you run defense a little bit, but I don't know if that's like a major, like they have solved it type of move. Yeah, I think it's a unit that I am excited to watch for a lot of the reasons we laid out on the breakout player show and what they were last year. And then the offense, the last thing I'll say about this, this is going to be a theme as we talk about a bunch of these teams. When your biggest changeover is a new quarterback or a new play caller, it doesn't, there's not a lot of value in looking back.

11:40Like going back and watching what the offense was last year under Zach Robinson, that's a majority of what we're doing on a lot of these shows is like going back and kind of combing through what these teams were last season. There's not a ton of value in that when you're changing systems, when you're changing quarterbacks, because that stuff is just less relevant. I think that's going to come up several times as we talk about teams where the biggest thing they did this spring was hiring a new play caller on one side of the ball. let's stick in the NFC South here the Carolina Panthers why didn't we talk a lot about the Carolina Panthers this offseason do you feel Derek I mean it's they it's all about the quarterback they're one of these teams where like their fate next year is all about how good the quarterback is going to be and I also think I think we all kind of agreed at the end of last year that like yes they made the playoffs and yes they gave the Rams like a couple of close games even in the playoffs.

12:34I don't think anybody seriously thought that they were like a threat to do anything in the playoffs. And so it just I think we've all kind of collectively agreed that they're this team that's like seven to nine wins. They're going to put you into rock fights. And the only thing that's really going to change that dramatically is how well the quarterback plays. And we're on year three of doing this with him. So it just doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of stones to turn. So much of their outlook comes down to what happens with Bryce Young. and I'm just not sure how much more there is to add to that conversation at this point.

13:05And I think part of it is because at this time last year, Bryce Young was one of those lingering questions. We were looking back at the second half of that 24 season and I think there was a decent amount of collective excitement over the way that he had played. And so it was like, man, how real is this? And what does this mean moving forward? And I think if you were somebody who was a believer in that surge and really found some optimism in it, I think even as the Panthers played pretty well last year, his play was kind of disappointing against that backdrop of the second half of the 24 season.

13:37I don't think he took a real meaningful step forward. And so beyond the fact that the Bryce Young thing is where it all boils down to that, I think that there just isn't a lot to add to it right now. And I also just feel like we kind of ran into a little bit of a dead end during last season with that exact thing. It just felt like, and yeah, I'd say it's, I mean, it's really his whole career, but definitely over the last two seasons but for every exciting high point that i could find it was immediately followed by something disillusioning or disappointing and that's just kind of been the bryce young story which just leaves you in a limbo where again i mean they're the defending division champions albeit with a losing record but still like they every panthers fan should have every reason to believe that they could build on that and i would even say be a better team this year but It's hard to get realistically excited about what their ceiling is without something from Bryce Young that we haven't seen to this point.

14:36The hope was if you really wanted to believe in this, it was always a really small sliver of space that he was going to have to slip through for this to work. Right. The margins were very small because he is very small. And I just think that when you got to the end of last year, it was like, I'm just not sure he's going to do it, man. I'm just not sure that this is going to work out where you really are threading the needle in a way where everything would kind of have to fall into place for somebody like him to be really successful. And I just think by the end of last season, it was hard to land in a place other than I'm not sure they're going to be able to pull this off.

15:09And the last thing I would say about this year for that, it's like they didn't add anything else on the offense. Like, obviously, the left tackle situation is going to be a little bit different because you've got Iki Akwondo coming off an injury. but like it's the same cast otherwise and same, you know, changing the play caller could be a little bit different, but it's the same cast mostly. Back on that a tiny bit. I think that the offensive line being healthier is part of it. And I also think Coker didn't play much last year. And so the fact that they could have Coker, I almost picked Coker on the breakout player show yesterday.

15:37Like he was one of the guys I had thought about. Like he's a decent player. I would have let you pick him, but I just feel like. Borderline too good? Not even borderline too good, like too discussed. like people love Jalen Coker. Like he's not an unknown. All the coke heads online. They love fantasy guys. Sick reference, bro. And I think, you know, they, you pick Brazel. Does that give them maybe a little bit more of a vertical element? Like I actually do think the supporting cast can be a little bit better. I just, I have some real lingering doubts about how much that's going to matter. But if we were going to discuss the Panthers more than we did this off season, where I probably would have taken that conversation is again, to the defensive side of the ball, because you look at that defense right now, and it was a unit that finished like 22nd, 23rd in defensive DVOA last year after being one of the worst run defenses we'd ever seen the year before.

16:28And so it was a pretty decent jump that they took in 2025. But now you look at that group, they have a really exciting player at virtually every single level of that defense. Derek Brown, Jalen Phillips, Devin Lloyd, Trevin Merrig, the corners. I mean, not even just JC Horn, Mike Jackson played so well last year. So underrated. So I just think where I would have taken it would be how good can the defense be, right? If the defense can actually be the most important unit on that team in terms of them be competitive, what does that mean for the expectations you need to heap onto the offense? And so them hitting on a couple of those big time free agents and dropping them into a defense that already had taken a significant and step.

17:10If I had to land on one topic, we could have talked more about Derek, that probably would have been it. A hundred percent. And like, it's funny too. I feel like all the additions they made, or at least a lot of them on defense, like were to continue to further themselves from how bad they were in run defense in 2024, adding a linebacker, you know, Devin Lloyd, some of his value is that, you know, some of the coverage stuff that he does. And I still think he's a little bit up and down in run defense. He's still miles better than anybody else that they had last year. Jalen Phillips, a lot of his value is what he gives you as like an edge setter.

17:41And then they even drafted Lee Hunter in the second round, who is a little bit more of like a big bodied nose, supposed to be that sort of guy. And so they continued to lean into like, hey, we need to stop the run. Because like you said, the secondary is not perfect. Like, you're kind of getting by with like Nick Scott and Chow Smith-Wade. But like JC Horn is about as good as it gets at corner. Mike Jackson was phenomenal last year, especially as a tackler. He's been really good for a long time. And then Trevon Merritt is going to be all rookie, Derek come on yeah you think so a couple guys is a key wheelie is gonna ransom in year two I did forget yeah ransom potentially taking a step I think could help them a little bit but even again even if none of that like fully materializes it's still a good secondary already and that might be like what could kick them into overdrive I'm playing devil's advocate more so than saying something I firmly believe but like if if Jalen Phillips is healthy and doing his thing, if JC Horn is healthy, like if the defense has everybody available that we hope and expect, do you think like, do you think this defense could flirt with like top 10 defensive DVOA?

18:46Potentially. I think that's potentially it's optimistic, but realistic, you know, like I don't think that's outlandish. I think it would be. That's like the best range of outcomes possible. But I do think that there is a world where they flirt with that. Yes. If they are excellent. I mean, we just talked about this with the, you know, is the era of quarterback-driven success over. If they were that good, it lessens the load so much on what Bryce Young still needs to be. He still needs to be unquestionably better than what he has been, but hoping Bryce Young can be a middle-of-the-pack quarterback is at least, it feels like less of a fool's errand than hoping Bryce Young is going to be like a franchise quarterback.

19:28I unfortunately am taking an even more dour look at it than that, where if your defense is that good, then you get into a place of, oh, if we did the right thing next offseason, what could our team look like at quarterback? Sure. That's probably, again, that's a really negative way to see it. But I honestly think if you're trying to stack up, what is the best case scenario for the Panthers? And when we step on NFC South preview, we're going to do it in a month and a half. But them getting to a place by the end of the year where it's like, man, if we can find the right veteran quarterback, how competitive can we be?

20:01I don't think that's a bad place to land if you're Carolina. That's what I was about to say, considering that right now you're pot committed to Bryce. Like if that's where you wind up, but that's what we talked about. Remember, you are for this year. This year. That's what I mean. And even next year, they picked up a fifth year option, but it's 25 million. You can easily do both. We got some pushback for suggesting that picking up Bryce's option was a bad thing. $24 million is a negligible amount of money by quarterbacks. 100%. And if you wind up in a place in 2027 where the team looks ready to contend, but Bryce isn't the guy, having picked up his fifth year option shouldn't stop the Panthers from doing damn near anything.

20:38And that's so even with him on the option, I just I think that's fine. And I think the full range of options is available to them next year if that's where they wind up. Their, their cap situation is not great heading into the 2027 season when they're paying in $25 million, but they can move on from a lot of those big money, free agent contracts that they've paid out over the last couple of years. Like if they, let's just say, and they did this in part because they needed to fix the interior of that defensive line. They need to do something. They paid to Sean Wharton and Bobby Brown, like a decent amount of money.

21:09The Lee Hunter thing is a multi-year solution to, if you have to move on from Bobby Brown in 2027, like there are a lot of levers. they'll be able to pull even paying Bryce Young 25 million and putting another quarterback contract onto that where they'll be able to survive and have some flexibility next year not to mention and we're I can't believe we're already just scrapping the 2020 2026 Panthers season I feel like an asshole we're just blowing past 2026 and for the record I the Panthers could win the division I don't think we should do that but if they were to what end if they were to go after another quarterback next year.

21:43Who are these? The quarterbacks we've seen signing with teams in these circumstances are not terribly cost prohibitive or expensive. You know what I mean? You're looking to 15 million maybe against the cap even for like the Darnold contract in year one. You can find that guy even if your cap situation isn't great. Let's talk about another team that had a quarterback swap that essentially went through this exact process this spring and that is the Minnesota Vikings. Dave why don't you think we talked much about the Minnesota Vikings over the last couple months I honestly think it's an overcorrection from how foolish all the preseason talk about the Vikings looks a year later that's that's what I genuinely think I think look we we have we had our biggest fight as as a trio about whether the Vikings were contenders in the preseason y 'all that was not that no that is we had a big fight about whether the vikings or the texans were more reasonable contenders but we were like in a knockdown drag out argument about whether the vikings deserve to be considered that way and for the record we weren't alone a lot of people felt this way about the vikings that's actually the funniest stat that i brought up in our production call to me is that the 2025 vikings had plus 2500 preseason odds to win the super bowl which was 11th best in the NFL with an unseen, basically rookie quarterback.

23:05That's how highly we thought about them a year ago. And now, whatever you think about Kyler Murray, with a much more proven NFL quarterback in the room, presumably starting for them, that's the assumption I'm going with, they're plus 4 ,000. It's so funny. Which is 18. Which is no sense, dude. The gap between those two things is actually really funny. Every I think it boils down to everybody being like, man, we really got out over our skis with this KOC quarterback whisperer thing, didn't we? Maybe we should chill the hell out. Well, and it's like I it feels like the J.J. McCarthy and by, you know, chain of that Max Brosnan and Carson Wentz experience.

23:45We like forgot how good some of the parts of the Vikings offense were or even how improved they were. Like the offensive line did get better. And I know that Ryan Kelly retired, but it still did get better last year. Justin Jefferson is still very much Justin Jefferson. This group is incredibly talented. I just think that how bad it looked has soured us on what we thought it was. I also just feel like we talked a lot about the Kyler Murray thing when it happened. Me and Alec Lewis had a half-hour conversation the day that the Kyler Murray trade actually went down to talk about what this would look like, why they would be willing to do it.

24:21But I think that's kind of just where the discussion ends. It's like, what does this fit potentially? Why would they be willing to do this in this moment? And what does it mean for the quarterback battle between him and J.J. McCarthy? That was the most important conversation about the Vikings this offseason. And I feel like after we had it, we kind of tabled them because of it. That's where I land with it, where it's like, well, we're going to go back and watch J.J. McCarthy from last year when we don't think he's going to win the job or talk about that. Why would we do that? And so I feel like the Kyler Murray move gave us the answers to all of the questions we might have had about the Minnesota Vikings coming out of last season.

24:56I think that's fair. But do you want me to tell you what we could? I would like to know what we should have talked about if we were going to talk about the Vikings. I've got a few things, but I want to stay on this quarterback thing for just one minute because I do think it's interesting. J.J. McCarthy, even with a few flashes toward the end of the season, was was bad, correct? correct yes just in general yeah he was very badly yeah he was bottom five in any much pretty much any metric you could want to measure a quarterback by like you have to extend the qualified passers available to you to find where he ranks despite that the vikings went six and four in games that he started and finished with a nine and eight record like for how much we talk about how bad jj mccarthy was this team still finished with a winning record so in some senses, it looks silly how high we were on the Vikings, but the reasons we were high on the Vikings are right there staring you in the face when you consider they had a historically bad quarterback and finished with a winning record.

25:58I think that's pretty incredible. Honestly, it speaks to how many things are actually in place with that team. And Derek, I see what you're saying with the offensive line. The offensive line wasn't good last year, though. And I think the offensive line wasn't good last year for a bunch of reasons. Christian Derrissal was not playing. And then when he did play, he was a very diminished version of himself. And then you had injuries along the interior of the offensive line. I think you could make a really serious argument that along with the quarterback improvement this year, the offensive line is going to be considerably better than it was a season ago if those guys can be healthier.

26:33If you're looking for a storyline that has nothing to do with the quarterback competition, health is going to be a huge part of that, right? Obviously, Ryan Kelly retired. Derrissaw has dealt with injury. Brian O 'Neill missed some time as well. But aside from that, Blake Brandle, who started four or five games because of those because of Ryan Kelly's concussions. He's going to he is presumed to start at center after really only getting his first action at center last year because of injury. I went back and watched. I would say I think he played pretty well. but and and for that matter i completely understand why a team with no money would lean on a reserve lineman that they already had a bunch of staff that wasn't in center but he's played everything he played guard for a while before donovan jackson but it is it is you know if you're looking for a problem spot it's like how well is he going to play at center is absolutely something worth circling but the the thing i wanted to i i was just curious because again you remember the preseason and expectations and you remember how bad it looked at times the vikings last year in offensive dvoa finished it was like bottom eight yes absolutely bottom eight but they finished third in defensive dvoa as well the the pieces are there and i know kyler had a terrible year last year but he was a perfectly serviceable quarterback in 2024 and so it's funny that like I feel like people are course correcting on the Vikings when maybe we shouldn't be backing off the Vikings if you're willing to believe in Kyler Murray.

28:06To me, I think that what I would have talked about, and this even gets a little bit complicated because of the quarterback, it's like, all right, well, how good are the other aspects of the offense really? Like, what should we really make of the supporting cast in Minnesota that Kyler Murray is joining? But even that is colored by them playing with J.J. McCarthy last year. Like Justin Jefferson did not have his best season. Justin Jefferson was over it. And so does anybody doubt Justin Jefferson? Like, yeah, I think it's hard to get a real sense of what everything around the quarterback looked like last year, because I think a lot of people within that offense were disheartened and a little bit disengaged by the end of it.

28:45And I do think we're going to see a better version of it this year. One other thing I think worth mentioning, and I remember we talked about this during the draft, so it's not as if we ignored it, but. They had five top 100 picks, and they spent four of them on their defense. I think you need to get some return on investment, you know, in order to, again, this is a team with limited cap space. Like, some of those guys need to hit. It doesn't, I don't need five all-rookie guys playing for the Vikings defense, but between Caleb Banks is the big swing in the first round. They drafted Jake Golday.

29:19We mentioned him the other day. Dominique Orange, Jacoby Thomas. I mean, you got to recycle some of that and get some youth giving you meaningful snaps. I think some of those guys have to do something, I would guess, if the defense is going to keep rolling the way it has, especially after trading away Jonathan Grenard. To me, the biggest conversation point about the Vikings is what does Kyler Murray look like in a Kevin O 'Connell offense? Of course. That is a preview conversation. That is a look forward to the season conversation. And it's a conversation we will be having plenty in the next month or so.

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32:21All right, let's chat a little bit about some mainstay AFC contenders that for whatever reason, we did not hit a lot this offseason. They didn't get a lingering question in those shows. I feel like we just didn't discuss them much post-draft really at all, and that is the Bills in the ring. So let's start with the Buffalo Bills, who our producer Katie has reminded us that we have not talked about the Bills in like two months. So why? Why haven't we talked about the Bills for a good majority of this offseason? I think the Bills and the Ravens are similar. Not so much coming out of this year because, I mean, the Ravens didn't even make the playoffs.

32:55The circumstances around why we haven't talked about them, though, I think are similar. Yeah, for better or for worse, I think you just wind up in stasis in that limbo between like clearly a very good team, clearly like we know what the goals are we know what the expectations are the cast of characters tweaks every off season but the overall conversation remains the same at least at the macro level obviously when you drill down a little bit you can you can take that further but we know who the bills are and where they've been trying to go for the last five years and in general that has stayed the same although the fact that they're doing it with a new head coach this year obviously very noteworthy.

33:37Well, that's what it is to me, is that we after they hired those guys, it's tempting to just look forward rather than look back. I mean, the most important thing about the Bills, it's not a lingering question. It's a forward facing question. How good is this defense with Jim Leonard and them changing defensive schemes? I think that's one of the most compelling units and topics of the entire season, Derek. But that's one we can only speculate about until we actually see what it's going to look like. Exactly. That's kind of the trickiest part of it is that that is all preview content that's not like let's undress how this was and if you were going to do that with this team it you know it would have been like oh well then we'll talk about the offense we'll talk about joe brady and normally when you have a huge head coaching change like you would want to go there but it's like we've seen him call the offense for years now like it's probably like there might be some changes because he gets to run the show and he's not calling plays for a defensive-minded head coach but like it's probably going to be a lot of the same stuff at least in theory obviously and then i think the thing you would want to talk about is like the dj more of it all but I do think that like what the reason we didn't talk about it as much as like the offensive line is mostly intact although they lost David Edwards they still got Josh Allen they still got James Cook and they still like have all the tight ends that they have they it's like it's going to be a lot of the same stuff and we expect them to be a top five offense that's going to win 11 games and that's just who the bills are so what should we have talked about then the topics we did not discuss with the bills what should we have hit in your mind it should have been the DJ more thing And I know, obviously, like as that's all happening in the trade and stuff like that is happening, we're talking about it a little bit.

35:08But I think we never really dove into it in full for what it would do for them this offseason. And I think, again, we could have because this was it's going to be the same play caller and it's going to be a lot of the same pieces. And I think when we were talking about it, it was a lot of can they just get a guy who can win one on one? Because I think they've tried to solve this problem a number of times over the past couple of years with trades, free agency stuff like that. Josh Palmer was kind of this, but not really. But like the Amari Cooper trade, like they have constantly tried to find this guy.

35:38DJ Moore is a much more full throated effort, I would say, at solving this issue. And I think, you know, I think we like brushed by it in the moment of like, DJ Moore is still a good player. But obviously the Bears just needed to move on for all these other reasons. Like, I think it's worth exploring that like he is still a really good player. Like he's a very good route runner. He's a big bodied guy. Like he's very good at run after the catch. Like he does add a lot of elements to this offense that they really don't have in any other way.

36:10Oh, wow. Not so much the way that they play. That's stylistically, but like the space they occupy as an NFL player, I think that's actually a really good comparison. A thousand yards for anybody. Nothing but consistency and production, but not quite enough to stick with a team. I mean, he's on his third team at the age of 28. Obviously, he was in Carolina for a long time, but being on your being on your third team when what you've I mean, he went over a thousand yards pretty much every year of his career over the first like six or seven years to be on your third team with that kind of track record is unique.

36:48I'm totally with Derek I think if we were going to discuss one thing and to be to pull the curd back a tiny bit whether the DJ Moore trade was enough to kind of change to flip the Bills offense was one of the lingering questions that we had in our short list that we did not hit well and this this isn't what you want to hear as a Bills fan and I apologize but like for a league-wide podcast too I just I just assume the Bills will be there on divisional weekend and it'll probably it'll look different for various reasons and it's a different like I said it's a different cast of characters but I implicitly trust the Bills will get to the second round of the playoffs which is a testament to their consistency and their excellence but in the offseason when you're looking at the new and the interesting and trying to squint and see what might be different this year I'm just like ah yeah the Bills will be there and I think to get really specific about like what DJ Moore brings to you I know we're saying like oh he can win on one-on-one and I do think that that applies to like slants or just running some of these outbreakers but he's also a huge vertical element that they did not have last year like josh palmer is kind of that when he's healthy but he's more of just like a big body throw it to him if he's down there sort of guy dj moore is an actual separator i mean even some of caleb williams's best deep throws last year were to dj moore because he can still separate the on those he wins uh at the catch point fairly well um but like khalil shakir is not doing that keon coleman was not doing that for them last year Maybe they hope Skylar Bell can do that as a rookie, but DJ Moore is obviously a guy who we know can do that.

38:15And then the other thing, I know they might be changing the run game a little bit because obviously changing the offensive line coach, you lose David Edwards, but DJ Moore does kick ass as a blocker. He will get after it and really get into people, and I do think that that is going to be an important piece for how they continue to run this offense. Did you happen to read the feature Tim Graham wrote about Chauncey Gardner-Johnson? I did not read it, no. It's worth your time. It's really illuminating profile of Chauncey Gardner-Johnson. And I think a lot of, rightfully so, I get it. The Bills are going to look for their dominant edge until the end of time, and it's Bradley Chubb right now.

38:52But adding Chauncey Gardner into the mix with the expectations in Buffalo and the personalities that are already there, that's definitely something worth mentioning. I mean, even if I'm with you in the sense that we expect them to be around on divisional weekend, Again, to me, the biggest thing about whether they can be more than that, the offense is good enough to do that. Like I still am there. Even against the Broncos, like if the turnovers did them in, the offense down to down against two teams that were really, really good defenses last year, Denver and Jacksonville in the playoffs, the offense was still, even with the receiver concerns, and aforementioned Brandon Cooks being heavily involved, was good enough for them to win those games.

39:33I think whether a refresh of some of the ideas on defense are enough to make this team feel different as we get into January is the number one thing I have at front of mind. And that's just something that we will talk about a lot in the next month and a half. And we will have to wait until the season to fully understand. Another team where the scheme changes are going to be a big part of those discussions is the Baltimore Ravens. Why don't you think we talked much about the Ravens this spring, Derek? let's caveat this after the max crosby thing happened right outside of the the trade the non-trade all that stuff i think it's a couple of things i i think a part of it is like we just don't know what the offense is going to look like and i think for a team that is when you have a quarterback like lamar jackson and i know there's some excitement about jesse minster but i think we all agree that right now the like the defense is not what it was in 2023 like if this team's going to be great it probably will be like lamar jackson and the offense elevating them to a really special place again but because we just don't know what that's going to look like and lamar jackson's coming off of like a weird relatively unhealthy season we're like not sure if we can project him to be elite again like is he going to come back is he a guy who you know he's hitting 30 and the mobility is going to go i think there's just so much unknown about what the identity of the offense is supposed to be that it's hard to like grab on to like that's how we should talk about this team that when you're looking forward and there's so much unknown there's just less value in looking back the bill the bills on offense or the bills defenses like this the ravens offense is like this and so i think that's part of the reason that we just we're looking forward to the new play callers and just to be clear we're gonna have at least one show about all of the most important new play callers in the league like we are going to talk about this but we're going to talk about this on August 15th, not June 15th.

41:26I also think it's worth saying, yeah, there's so much speculation with the Ravens. Last year was just so annoying too. It really was. The Ravens were an annoying team. I don't know. After they lost that game to the Steelers, I think that might be the most dad voice, I'm just disappointed in you. I have been on this podcast in the six years that we've done it and it was it was a good bit at the time and it wasn't a bit I fully felt it the annoying thing is just trying to parse through that like why was why was the Ravens O-line so bad last year like they were so surprisingly good in 2024 same guys were bad at 2025 why also that doesn't really help us now because Tyler Linderbaum's gone they swapped out the entire interior yeah which by the way that is a reason to talk about the ravens right now if you're looking for one one to it's funny to some degree they said not again because you draft vega venga you want a 14th overall and you bring back john simpson who was a big piece of their successful offensive lines in the past and also we can talk about the fact they still don't have a center what the hell are we doing i think they're just rolling with danny pinter man It kind of seems like that's what we're doing here.

42:40Ethan Posick was cleared for training camp this week. I don't know. That feels like a phone call worth making, in my opinion. I think that it seems like they're down to roll with Pinter. Okay. That seems like, and I will say this. We have recent examples where teams with championship aspirations, even if for this team specifically, we did not ascribe championship aspirations to them in the offseason because we had so many questions about them. The Seahawks just won the Super Bowl with Jalen Sundell playing center. mm-hmm the Jaguars were pretty good with Robert Hainsey yeah you can do it and so I think there is there's absolutely a scenario where everything else about the Ravens offense is so well calibrated in this system which shockingly I have come to believe in that the center and the questions we have about the center matter a little bit less getting into the season than they seem to matter on May 1st when they didn't address it in the draft I would like especially like if a guy like even posic is available i i'm the type that i just prefer to throw as many resources as possible at a problem that type of body might not be their jam though i hear your point either way you can't argue even with the center question i mean drafting you want a where they did and bringing back simpson i mean you can't say they've done nothing to try to address that problem no and i think them getting as big as they did at guard and as physical as they did at guard, I think is we've seen teams do that and we've seen the benefit that it can have for teams.

44:10Again, I'll go back to what Declan Doyle watched in Chicago last year and what that meant for the transformation of the offense. So I think that those are the reasons we didn't. If I was trying to figure out one thing we could have talked about that was, again, something we had kind of danced around but never leaned into, what is the Ravens roster, really? As we're looking at both sides of the ball, Like how many guys on offense and defense are you like, all right, those are difference making players. Again, I think that there are some answers that may be a little bit surprising. Like I think because the offense struggled a little bit last year relative to what the heights we have seen from it.

44:46I thought Zay Flowers actually played very well. And I think there are times we're like underrating how good of a player he is. And I think it kind of goes both ways. And on defense, it's like, all right, how many guys do we feel really good about? Like Derek saying, and it's probably not going to be what it was in 2023. could it be like is there a chance that like it can be a top five defense again with Jesse Minter like I think that those are the types of things that we probably could have leaned into a little bit more even with all of the uncertainty that comes along with new play callers on both sides of the ball I mean I think I think it could because we've talked about if anybody is going to be Mike McDonald it's probably Jesse Minter I just think when Mike McDonald did it with that defense it was such a like a meteoric like moment that I think it's probably hard for Jesse Minter to capture that and I do think even with the addition of Trey Hendrickson like I do think I still have some questions about the front overall like linebacker two is a huge question the edge room outside of Hendrickson I think is a pretty big question is Nnamdi Matabike going to play like I think just trying to sort out how good the front is going to be I do think I have a lot lot of questions about eric da costa said this week that he said they're they're waiting to get more information they don't know yet but he did say everything seems to be pointed in the right direction with nnamdi matabike which i remember saying in february that would do wonders for my estimation of the ravens defense and in fairness to them you talk about the edge room talk about the linebacker to spy teddy pichana was a rookie last year so you got year two for him well i got Hurt, I think.

46:19Is he coming off an ACL? Yeah. He is coming off an ACL. So that is true. I think DaCosta gave a favorable update on him as well. It sounds like they're not super worried about it. So let's say he comes back early in the season. You get year two with Mike Green. And if Matt Abike can play, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, Meteoric is the correct way to frame the 2023 defense. It's not going to be that. But could it be one of the best five or six defenses in the league? And if the offense gets a real shot in the arm moving into that scheme and the benefits they could potentially get from it. I don't know, man.

46:52Like, I think that there's there's plenty of reasons for options. There's a reason the Ravens have like the third best Super Bowl odds. Because, you know what? Yeah, it doesn't have to be the Mike McDonald defense. In my mind, what I just thought was like, if they can be the Jaguars from last year, just like it's not going to look one for one. But I just mean, like, in terms of quality where you're like the sixth to eighth, depending on, you know, the month or whatever we're playing in. that with like Lamar Jackson returning to form is probably enough for them to be like an 11-12 team again. Let's take one more quick break and then come back and chat about our last few teams.

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49:22Next one here is the Philadelphia Eagles, a team that I really don't think we talked much about. I mean, one of the last conversations we had about the Eagles was probably when they traded for Jonathan Grenard on draft night. Since then, not a lot of Eagles talk on the show. Why do we think that is, David? because of their bipolar tendencies to go in these cycles of extreme highs and extreme lows. And I remember coming off of, we did the same thing in 2023. I wasn't on the show yet, but I remember talking to you in that heading into the 2024 season where all that shit had just happened with the coordinators and the season had fallen apart the way that it did.

49:59And it was just kind of like, ah, should I buy into what the Eagles have going on? Like, it seems like such a clusterf**k over there. And lo and behold, they go win a Super Bowl. Obviously, there are some severe personnel changes this year. I think that's worth saying. But I just think the Eagles kind of go in these cycles of dominance mixed with drama. And so when they go in these down cycles, it's easy to just be like, ah, I don't want to deal with the noise going on in Philly right now. And considering the, what was it, three-month trade drama that hovered over A.J. Brown during that entire circumstance, I think there was very much an attitude of like, all right, I'll check in with y 'all after you trade A.J.

50:46in June. And so now we can do that. I don't want to step on this, but that's the reason we didn't talk about the Patriots this spring is because we're going to talk about the Patriots here in a second. The reason we didn't talk about the Patriots is the trickle, trickle, trickle of A.J. Brown stuff. We treat it as a foregone conclusion. so when it actually did happen it felt like we had half talked about it for so long that it was like all right well it happened and that's why we didn't do a pod for it we didn't do a pod for it like we did the Jalen Waddle one because it's like well yeah we've been doing this for two months like what are we doing so again not to step on it but that's probably why we didn't talk about the Patriots very much this spring and it also applies to the Eagles and my thing with the Eagles is it's kind of similar to the Ravens and the Bills when it comes to the changes they made on the staff on one side of the ball is the most important thing.

51:30When it comes to Philly, it's kind of like, wake me up when we know if their offensive coordinator is good. Yes, fair. That's it. Especially too, because like, just let me know. I know the other side of the ball had a couple of people, couple of, you know, players change. They had a reek woolen, you know, they do the Jonathan Grenard change. We know what the Vic Fangio defense is. We know they're probably going to be pretty good. And there's some stuff to talk about, but like, it's like, we kind of already accept that they're going to be a great defense. But that's, if I had to pick, what should we have talked about with the Eagles?

51:58my vote would probably be does this, if you look at this group right now, okay, with Tariq Wollin out there as the second outside corner with Jonathan Grenard coming in is there a chance this is the best group personnel wise they have had since Vic Fangio got there?

52:18Man. 2024 was really, really sick. They were really, really good in 2024. Sweat was there. Mill Williams was still there. But you got It might be Mitchell's now quitting on Mitchell was a better player than he was. Then like they, that second safety spot, they lose blank and ship this off season. They lose Jalen Phillips this off season from a top five defense. But I think you can make a really serious argument that they're as scary as they've ever been on that side of the ball. I'm going to, I'm going to defer toward 2024 just because I watched them run roughshod to a super bowl, but like it's at least a conversation point is well made.

52:54And I'm so excited about this defense. I do remember being really pumped, particularly, and this was before the Grenard trade, but the Reek-Wollin signing is just inspired stuff. I'm very excited about it. And I think if they are that good defensively, it takes some of the pressure off how good the offense needs to be. And so it reframes the way that we talk about the Eagles a little bit. So, again, if I had to pick something we should have and could have talked about, I think that probably would have been it, Derek. That probably should have been it. Because, yeah, while I think it's boring to talk about the defense insofar as, like, yeah, we accept that even in, like, the worst-case scenario, they're probably, like, the seventh-best defense in the NFL.

53:34They could be the best. I think there are four teams that have, like, maybe five that have, like, a serious, serious shot. I still think Seattle can do it. The Texans can do it. The Rams, obviously now having Miles Garrett, can do it. And I think the Eagles can do it. Maybe throw the Broncos in there, too. Like, those are the teams. I'd say Broncos and Vikings are the two other teams that I, like, I would give them a shot. Vikings, I don't know. I think that roster has a lot more questions. You're probably right about that. I think they have the lead, but just in terms of teams that have been within spitting distance multiple years in a row, I think there's an, it's probably a lesser chance than those other teams, but I think it's at least a chance if we're just throwing out contenders.

54:11But I think you're right. I think that's probably the short list. The other thing I would point out, and I mean, I don't know if this leads to interesting conversations because you're just speculating about future possibilities, But a big piece of the Eagles demise last year, too, was just the underperformance of the offensive line. I mean, they were beat to shit. Like Landon Dickerson considered retirement at one point this year. Like that happened. And obviously he opted not to do that. But I mean, looking looking at their lineup right now, like if you can guarantee me and I know that you can't, but if you could guarantee me good health from Landon Dickerson and Cam Juergens and Jordan Mailata gets back to form.

54:51I love I love this team this is a Super Bowl contender even without AJ Brown but that you you can't guarantee that and you saw how bad it looked at times when that unit went from being unquestioned top three in the league to a much more normal offensive line a much more normal offense is the thing that I'm curious about and I that's they are one of those teams that when we do talk about new play callers and we are starting to project forward to the season I can't wait to talk about that team. I mean, that, that show is going to be a little bit later in August because I want to be done traveling before we have those conversations.

55:25Like I'm going to Philly. I'll be there August 7th, I think is the day I'm going to be there. There are all of these teams. It's funny because like you said, this doesn't mean they're not interesting. Like most of the, a lot of the teams that we're talking about here, I can't wait to go to Buffalo in next month. I cannot wait to go to Buffalo. I can't wait to go to Baltimore. I can't wait to go to Philly. But again, those are conversations for August looking forward to the season, not a lot of the things that we're discussing in May and June. Speaking of contenders that we did not talk a lot about, the Denver Broncos.

55:57Dave, why do you think we didn't talk much about the Denver Broncos this spring? I think there's two big reasons. From a team building and roster standpoint, what do you want me to say? They didn't do anything. They traded for Jalen Waddle. We did the emergency Waddle pod and that was it. the one big thing they did addressed arguably their biggest weakness with a really really good player like they added Jalen Waddell to a team that went 14 and 3 and was the one seed in the AFC their losses on defense like John Franklin Myers left and Dre Greenlaw left which like Dre Greenlaw's for what he did in Denver is not even a real loss and then John Franklin Myers they spent the top 100 pick on a D tackle to just keep that rotation strong.

56:41So from a personnel standpoint, what do you want me to say? I think this is one of the most complete teams in the NFL. And then the other big thing is something you can't quantify, which is Sean Payton handing over play calling duties. Like, I don't know what to expect from Davis Webb, or maybe more importantly, I don't know what to expect of Sean Payton coping with not being the play caller. I assume it's just a chance for those guys to go home before 2 a.m. each day. 4 a.m. according to Seth Wickersham. That's probably the biggest change. It's going to be the quality of life for the offensive coaching staff for the Denver Broncos this year.

57:14Okay, we both read the story. It's highly worth your time. Seth Wickersham did a great piece on Peyton's, the Broncos' trip through the playoffs, and he embedded with Sean Peyton for three weeks. The tidbit I came back to when I was prepping for this show and talking about what we could talk about with the Broncos, they were game planning for the Patriots. And, like, he was in the room with Joe Lombardi and Davis Webb. They fired Joe Lombardi. They promoted Davis Webb to play calling OC. But they're, like, putting the game plan together. And Joe Lombardi and Davis Webb overruled Peyton on a play that they wanted to put into the game plan.

57:53And Peyton was like, all right, fine. That's cool. And then, like, two hours later at 4 o 'clock in the morning, He was like, that we're putting my play in. And I was reading that story and I was like, is Sean Payton really going to be cool with this? And is that going to be a problem for the Denver Broncos? That's like one of my only questions about this team. I think that's a worthwhile question. I think that's going to be one we talk about. I well, listen, every team when we start the team previews, what's keeping you up at night? I think that will be a reasonable answer to what's keeping you up at night about the Denver Broncos.

58:23Sean Payton is keeping the Denver Broncos up at night. Every every single night. Yeah, that's one of those, like, we've all got something in the back of our minds that, like, by week six, we want to know if we have an answer on. That's the, like, how does Sean Payton feel about, you know, not having play calling duties by then. That's one thing. We could have gone through that Seth Wickersham story with a fine-tooth comb and picked out the 10 most insane things Sean Payton said or did in that entire thing. That easily could have been an episode. My, if we were throwing a topic out there about the Broncos, I think we could have done a lingering question, similar to the one we asked about the Cowboys and the Bengals, where the Broncos operated this offseason like they were a Jalen Waddle away from the Super Bowl.

59:03Are they? Counter question. What would you have realistically liked to see them do instead? Maybe, I don't know. I'm not, it's not even a criticism. Because I think those are two separate questions, right? Of like, what was their best path to get there? I think the answer probably was trading for Jalen Waddle. The second question is, is that actually enough to get you over the hill? I don't actually know. I do think that because it's solved, I think last year they were so specific on offense in the way that they were operating. Like it was a lot of like weird four by one stuff. Like they were booting Bo Nix out all the time.

59:42He only really likes to throw certain areas of the field. He doesn't throw the middle of the field that often. And they had all these constraints, but they didn't have like automatic explosive players like a Jalen Waddle. So they were just getting by with a lot of weird, like, Bo Nix doing a good job of not taking negative plays, and then Sean Payton just, like, cooking up incredible game plans, like the Packers game. Like, he just abused all of their rules. Having a Jalen Waddle makes that a little bit simpler, and I do think that that might be enough to actually get them to be, like, I don't think they're going to be an elite offense, but if they could be the ninth best offense, whereas last year they were closer to middle of the pack, if the defense holds top six, that actually is probably enough to get them there.

1:00:22Yeah. And I think a reasonable counter to my question, if you're a Broncos fan, is they might have been a Bo Nix ankle away from going to the Super Bowl last year. So that's fine. Whether they could have beaten the Seahawks is a different discussion. Sure. But at getting there. I had sort of memory hold the AFC championship game. I don't blame you. Until I read the Seth Wickersham story. And I was like, oh, shit. They could have taken a 10-0 lead in that game. It was a tough game. It was a tough game. especially with the other one hanging in the background, knowing what we were about to get in the evening.

1:00:55The AFC championship game was a slog. The highest compliment I could pay a Bronco fan if you feel like we've ignored your team is me personally. I just, I have no questions. It's a good thing. To be ignored in the way that we've ignored them is actually a good thing. I am sky high on what the Broncos could be this year. Last one here. Speaking of teams that played in the AFC championship game, the New England Patriots. We really have not talked much about the New England Patriots this offseason. And I alluded to it a second ago. I think part of that is because of the timeline with A.J. Brown trade and just the way that it was treated as a formality for so long.

1:01:35It never felt like there was a moment to really dig into it because we were half doing it for weeks, seemingly. And I also think you look at the other moves they made this offseason, ones that I think you can get behind. You know, like Draymond Jones is the type of player they really didn't have last year. I really like Draymond Jones and I really like Romeo Dobbs. But the first round pick that they made is a backup offensive lineman. So I think there are just a lot of elements to the moves that they made, the timing of those moves, how exciting those moves are, what you can really say about those moves that maybe pushed us to talk about the Patriots a little bit less than we would with a team that just went to the Super Bowl.

1:02:14And I also think just honestly, the way that the playoffs unfolded and them getting their asses kicked by the Seahawks in the Super Bowl the way that they did, I think takes a little bit of steam off of a team. It's like, ah, was this all as real as we thought it might have been heading into this game before the playoffs started? I do think that colors the Patriots discussion and the energy around this team maybe a little bit more than we're willing to admit. I think that's completely fair, although I'll use this opportunity to say, and it's totally fair and valid to point out that the Patriots benefited from a soft schedule last year.

1:02:48They sure did. But the idea that you can almost win NFL MVP purely because of the teams you're playing, I think is just silly. Like, this isn't the Big 12. This isn't like this isn't a Big 12 quarterback feasting on 11 bad teams. And Dane is like, I know he's got 11 sacks, but have you seen who he's played? And I'm like, no, but I promise he's great. Like, this isn't that. Those two things can be true. They played the Bills twice. Exactly. Like the Patriots maybe benefited from a soft schedule and the playoffs were a wake up call. Drake may is still the man. Like I have no problem believing that heading into 2026.

1:03:27And I, as long as we're being truthful about those two things, cause, and I am terminally online. That is a problem that I'm always trying to deal with. But like the online discourse about Drake may just makes me like slam my laptop shut. sometimes there's never been a clearer example of you were either the greatest thing that's ever lived or you're a piece of shit and what happened with drake may during the playoffs last year because before the playoffs started he was the greatest player of all time and then after the playoffs said it it's like yeah he actually sucks yeah it all three games and like like he was a little bit banged up the snow game like it's just like plays the best defense that we've seen in a while like it's just like and but yes two of them and the seahawks in the playoffs and like the broncos are no slouch by the way yes right and the broncos that's the other thing and and i will say too and like i think and i think people took that as like well that's proof that like the schedule that he played was like a you know a cheap or whatever it's like well yeah but no other team is playing those teams every week like that like that you just don't get three runs like that and i also think you only do if you go to the super bowl yes exactly and i think we always too like i've i will say this for anybody not just drake may we like really look way too much into like a quarterback's first or second run in the playoffs like we just always go like that's the only thing that he'll ever be and it's like that's probably not true i think this guy's gonna be fine so what should we have talked about derek if we were going to talk about the patriots more than we did this offseason, which should we have talked about?

1:05:01So there's a little bit to say about the offense, but I think keeping the same play caller who we're very familiar with and a quarterback, I think we all know is good. And then the slow drip of the A.J. Brown. I think we kind of know what's going on on offense. I think the defense is going to look different for a number of reasons. For one, this is the first year that Kerr is going to be like going into the year as the play caller, which I think adds an interesting element to things. But they just made a lot of different personnel changes like Kyrus Tonga is out and they don't have an obvious other 330 pounder to step into his role and be as good as he was and so I think that that might change the complexion of the defense a little bit on the edge the body types are a little bit different obviously you bring in Draymond Jones instead of Klayvon Chason you draft Gabe Akis I think Elijah Ponder is going to be an even bigger part of the defense and I think he was quietly really good last year and He's like a 260, 265 pound guy as well.

1:05:53And then at safety, you change out Jalen Hawkins, who played really well last year, but is more of a like sees it well, is kind of a flexible player, tackles fairly well. Whereas now you bring in Kevin Byard, who I think is maybe not as flexible and as good of a tackler. But as a pure like stay back there and keep the lid on the defense cover guy, he's still really, really good. And so I just think the complexion of the defense is going to look a little bit different than it did a year ago. sort of, I mean, I don't disagree with the complexion of the defense being different, but if I, I think we could have talked about the offense.

1:06:25I think you look at the moves that they made on offense. It's like the idea of Romeo Dobbs and AJ Brown now being within that offense and offense that was one of the better units in the league last year. Like, what will that mean? You know, you swap, you know, Jared Wilson's going to play center. Now you bring in ABT, like the offensive line should be a little bit bigger, maybe a little bit better and against like on the ground than they were a year ago, Travion Henderson in a year or two. like I that's kind of where my mind goes I know you have a justifiable fascination with like what they were doing defensively but for me it's like I there the offense is like what did they do to maybe mitigate some of those issues that they had a year ago and what will that mean moving forward that's where my mind goes when I'm thinking about the Patriot stuff we did not really unearth this spring and it will be different but I think part of why I didn't necessarily go there one of it is like, I guess, like, I personally just believe they're going to be really good again.

1:07:18So I think even though it will look different, I think I just have a lot of faith that it's going to be very, very good. Whereas the defense, I think there are more legitimate questions of like, how real was what they did in the back half of last season? Like, was some of their game plan super blitz stuff? Like, is that actually what they want to be? Or did that just was that the best answer that they had at the time? And so I think that more than anything is probably unless they are literally the best offense in the league i think the quality of their defenses are really going to define if this is an 11 12 win team again or if they're more of like a 10 win team kind of good but not going to be the same threat in the afc championship well i love derek so much where it's like instead of talking about aj brown we're going to talk about what elijah ponder's role could be on the patriots that that's really the focus of attention we're gonna zig they were third in the league in offensive DVOA.

1:08:09I mean, I could have guessed they were, I would have guessed top six for sure, but three, I'm surprised to relearn. And so, yeah, man, like you, you add those two receivers to what they were already capable of. That's really exciting. And I think you're right. I think the way it ended, it's just hard to get excited about it. Like you're like, oh, they could go to the Super Bowl. Well, they just did. And it was really bad. But like, this is not that team, clearly. And again, they're a competition. will obviously be better this year because you're playing a first place schedule. But when something like this happens, there's a little bit of a, well, talk to me in January, right?

1:08:47Like what can we say in the regular season this year that we didn't say last year? Obviously the circumstances will be different and that's a silly way of approaching it. But I think there's a little bit of that as we have talked about and thought about the Patriots this off season. All right, so now we're good. Now we've accounted for all of the sins in the teams that we ignored over the last two months. So if you're mad, you can't be mad anymore. That's where we're going to land with this. Just in time for...

1:09:17That would have been a good bit. I'm not going to lie. Add them onto the show. I've got more Seahawks bits coming. I was actually thinking about a couple of them earlier today. So we'll be okay. We'll try it out a couple more before the season starts. For now, that is all we've got on today's show. We will be back next Monday with, I believe, our last mailbag of the summer because we are going to start looking forward to some training camp stuff the following week. By the time the following week mailbag or the following Monday, a week from Monday, I'll be in, I think, L.A. So we will be already into training camp.

1:09:51And so no more mailbags. This is the last one. Have enjoyed all of the ones we've done. Sincerely appreciate everyone who has participated in those this summer. The reason we do them is because you guys do such a great job with the questions. So we will savor this last one before we start turning the page to actual preview stuff here on the Athletic Football Show. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you guys very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating.

1:10:21We'll see you next time.

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