The team DNA changers for the 2025 season

0:00Derrik Klassen: With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5 % cash back at different categories each quarter on up to$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details.

0:26Dave Helman: Teens spend an average of nine hours a day on screens outside of school. That's basically a full-time job just scrolling mindlessly. We all know how bad scrolling mindlessly is for us as adults. Think about how bad that could be for teenagers and even younger children. Here's the good news. There's a solution. A company called Gav has solved the problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is Tech in Steps. Tekken Steps works by providing safer phones and watches for kids with no social media, tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for tweens and teens, each device allows kids to more safely grow their independence.

1:07Dave Helman: Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab, which keeps them socially connected without social media. Right now, use our code to get the best deal on a kid's phone that will make parenting easier and give you more peace of mind. Visit gab.com slash football show and use code football show for an exclusive offer. That's Gab, G-A-B-B. There's something about fall that makes you want to slow everything down. Cooler mornings, longer evenings, a home that feels like it's exhaling. Pura fills every home with the sense of fall automatically so your whole home feels like autumn the moment you walk in.

1:48Dave Helman: Right now, get a free diffuser plus 20 % off select curated sets. Visit Pura.com to bring the season home.

2:01Derrik Klassen: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I am Dave Hellman, and today we are talking DNA, specifically DNA changers. As we move through training camp, we have identified a short list of players that we think have the potential to completely revamp, completely change the way we feel about their units. Could be veterans, could be rookies, guys drafted this past spring. A lot of potential, a lot of options to choose from. Really exciting conversation for y 'all today. So let's just get into it. Let's do it.

2:38Derrik Klassen: All right, Robert is currently on the mid-Atlantic swing of his training camp tour. I think he's hitting the Ravens, Eagles, Jets and Commanders between Wednesday and Saturday. So super excited to talk to him about that when we get a chance. But that leaves Derek Klassen and I to go through today's show. Derek, how's it? How goes it, my dude?

2:59Dave Helman: I'm doing very good today. This is, you know, this is a show that is kind of near and dear to me because I don't remember if it was the first show I did when I first took the job here last year. But it was certainly very early on. So it's a it's a topic that I'm interested to jump into.

3:13Derrik Klassen: I remember you doing this show last year and I love the concept. So I'm, I'm thrilled to revisit it with you in 2025. We're doing DNA changers. So if you don't remember last year's show, if you didn't listen to it, if you're new to the show, we're basically going to take a look at a handful of off season acquisitions could be a veteran signing, could be a rookie draft pick that are going to change the DNA of the unit that they're on. And what we mean by that is they are going to make a very obvious impact on the play style, on the feel of these units. When you watch them, you'll say, oh, this team is physical.

3:54Derrik Klassen: This team plays this type of coverage. And a lot of it is to do with these specific guys. I love this concept. And it's it's a hard thing to articulate, you know, like when you watch a certain team play defense or when you watch a certain offense it's hard to articulate why they feel the way that they do but I think you can pinpoint some specific players that that make a team look and feel the way that they do so I love this concept I'm I'm excited to get into it and I'm going to give you the floor because like you said this is this one's near to your heart so why don't you start us off yeah I'm

4:28Dave Helman: going to start with one kind of um I'm going to start on the defense and I think again I might and mentioned a couple of DBs last year. I think DBs are just, they can really change what you're allowed to do on defense. And so to me, I want to start with one of the highest paid safeties that we actually got in this free agency cycle. Cam Bynum, formerly of the Minnesota Vikings, currently now with the Indianapolis Colts. And I think the reason to me, he feels like such a DNA changer is, you know, I think some of the guys I mentioned last year and certainly will mention at other points in this show, sometimes it's like a physicality thing.

4:59Dave Helman: Like they're bringing violence to a defense that didn't necessarily have it. And like Bynum's a good tackler and he's a good hitter, but that's not necessarily what it is for me. To me, it's that Bynum, I think, is very representative of the schematic change that we're going to get with the Colts. Last year, you know, being Gus Bradley, still being the defensive coordinator, they ran more cover three than anyone in the league. Obviously, you know, they were just a hair under 50 percent, which actually for Gus Bradley is kind of low. But still, it still ended up leading the league. But they're obviously going to be moving into more of a too high world, more of a simulated pressure world, more of like a multiple fronts type of world with Luana Rumo, who is formerly the Bengals defensive coordinator.

5:37Dave Helman: And why I think all of this is so interesting is I think we saw last year and kind of the year before with the Bengals defense. They struggled to be the team that they wanted to because I think they had a lot of young players in the secondary who couldn't always mentally handle some of the stuff that Anaruma was asking of them. not at all a problem with cam binum i think cam binum is one of the sharpest safeties in the league it's just i think to me he has some of the best what i call like position maintenance in the nfl and that to me is just like you're taking the right like you see and play the right leverage on certain routes like there was i was watching back the colts game just to get a little bit of an example um and it's just one of those things where he sees like a tight bunch into the field and he go and he just knows, OK, somebody from that bunch has to be playing a crosser.

6:23Dave Helman: And he's just so quick at like getting out in front of it and making sure the quarterback never has a window. And I think if you're going to play this kind of aggressive, kind of multiple defense, you have to always be ready for whatever the offense's answer is. And I think Bynum, to me, I think just really hones in on that for them.

6:39Derrik Klassen: I think there's another half of that, too, that I really love. And in addition to Bynum, I adored the decision to sign Charverius Ward, who he's I mean, he he he's not on my list, but I think he's a guy that you could put on a list like this because he's he's a physical corner. He enables you to play a certain amount of defense with the way that he can man up on receivers and play physical with them.

7:05Dave Helman: It's actually glad you brought him up, because when I first started making this list of DNA changers, I actually started with Charverius Ward. And then I looked at the depth chart again and I was like, OK, maybe just because of how much moving around they do with their DVs that Bynum makes a little bit more sense to me for this. But I do think what's interesting is I think because Gus Bradley is such a single high guy, we might consider that the Colts played a good amount of man last year. But they really didn't because the corners couldn't really run man to man with a lot of people. When I think of Traverius Ward, I think of like a really, really good press man corner.

7:37Dave Helman: and so the fact that he is going to allow them to live in that world and bynum is really going to be able to piece together this the the deeper secondary and let them do a lot of the just funky two high rotations whether you know they want to do some weird tampa two invert stuff and drop bynum down to the middle or they want to have him in the box and fly him out to a hash and play cover two that way um you know have him nailed down on cross or from quarters like whatever it is there's just so many things that bynum can do so you have the flexibility there and then like you said, like a true one on one corner in Ward, this cold secondary suddenly has way more flexibility than it had three months ago.

8:13Derrik Klassen: I'm going to ask you the eternal question that nobody can answer rusher coverage. But I am curious because I see the Colts as just having I mean, they got bodies up front, right? Like they've got a lot of guys. They do not have like that truly dominant, always going to win pass rusher, especially on the edge. I mean, I think a lot of DeForest Buckner, but I'm thinking about the edge here. I mean, we'll see what Leia Tulatu can do in year two. Quidi Pei has been a solid player for them. But maybe it helps them and maybe it will lead to better seasons for those guys if you can count on the back end a little bit more.

8:53Derrik Klassen: Like this could be a scenario where better coverage creates better pass rush, even though at least I tend to think of it the opposite way. Like you'd rather have the demonic pass rush, but this could be a situation where better coverage unlocks those guys in the Colts front.

9:08Dave Helman: I think absolutely. Like I again, if I had to pick one, I would rather have a top five front than probably a top five secondary. But I do think it can absolutely cope both ways where the secondary can help the front. And I think it's part that I think the coverage unit is going to be a little bit more put together, a little bit more flexible. And that's going to help the pass rush. I also think there's just going to be more opportunities where it's not just, hey, the four guys on the line of scrimmage are rushing and that's it. Just go get after the quarterback. Lou Anarumo is going to throw a lot more simulated.

9:35Dave Helman: It's just going to be a little bit more mixing up where the pressure is coming from and who's coming and who's dropping and certain stuff like that. So I think the pass rushers are going to get more help from the guys playing behind them and also from schematically from some of the stuff that Anarumo is doing. So I don't know if I necessarily expect them to suddenly be a top eight defense or anything like that. But I just think that we're going to go from what felt like a kind of stale, just run and hit style of defense to, oh, they're doing a lot of interesting stuff and they've got more options than before.

10:04Dave Helman: And again, if if Laetitulatu jumps from like nice rookie season into, you know, borderline Pro Bowl level pass rusher, that might be what really, really kicks this defense into overdrive.

10:16Derrik Klassen: don't need them to be an elite defense right now, but I just need them to be competent on the back end, which they just were not for huge stretches of last year. So yeah, between, between these two additions and your guys specifically can bind them. Obviously I think most, most people still think highly of Lou Anna rumo, despite what happened in Cincinnati last year. Like this could be a unit that takes a really important jump, even if it's not into the stratosphere. And I think we all know that that offense is going to need the help. So that's a topic for another day. All right. I'm going to highlight a guy.

10:52Derrik Klassen: Let's just let's just get it out of the way, Derek, because I feel like it's a meme at this point. People who cover the NFL love this guy. We love to talk about him. We love to sing his praises. It's it's kind of become a meme. So I'm not going to bring up Puna Ford just because we like him as a football player. but Puna Ford specifically as a Los Angeles Ram is exactly what we're talking about when we when we say we want to change the DNA of a unit like this is the ultimate team that struggled struggled against the run last year 23rd in rushing success rate 22nd in rush EPA they only they only held opponents to zero or negative rushing yards on 15.3 of of their attempts which was third worst in the NFL.

11:40Derrik Klassen: And then, of course, you add that to the very, very memorable Saquon Barkley performances, regular season and postseason. Everybody in the NFL knows these guys were terrible against the run. It's like the number one thing that the Rams need to fix in 2025. And Puna Ford is a great way to do it, man. And on top of that, for such a friendly amount of money 15 million guaranteed he's not even top 30 among nfl defensive tackles tyleek williams actually has more guaranteed money on his contract as the 28th overall pick in the draft than puna ford got but in return you get what everybody agrees is is one of the better run stuffing defensive tackles in the nfl like i don't think he can do it all on his own but this is a great first step toward making the Rams run defense respectable.

12:30Derrik Klassen: And if it is, then this could become a much more well-rounded and much better defense overall.

12:37Dave Helman: I couldn't agree more. It's funny that, you know, before we do the show, we don't talk about who's on our list until we kind of both have them and we come together. This was the one player we both agreed on needed to be on the show, which is just, again,

12:49Derrik Klassen: it's a football writer meme, man. Like we all love Puna Ford.

12:53Dave Helman: And we have since the combine, right? Like I remember when he didn't get a combine invite And everyone on football Twitter was like, are you kidding me? How does Puna Ford not get a combine invite? So we've been doing this for years with Puna Ford.

13:03Derrik Klassen: But I do think that's the difference, though, is like we're not just hyping up Puna Ford on Seattle Seahawks defense that has a million other talking points we could get to. Like Puna Ford is here to address a very specific problem. And history shows that he can do it. Like, I mean, you go watch him on tape. The numbers are what they are. Like PFF graded him out at sixth best in the NFL among defensive tackles and stopping the run, depending on how you feel about PFFs grades. But if you just go watch the Chargers last year, like this is a guy who gets double teamed, is consistently very successful against double teams.

13:44Derrik Klassen: And if he's one on one, he's probably going to beat his guy. Another PFF stat, 23 stops, which is essentially a tackle that leads to a bad play. 23 stops on the season so this is a like his specialty is stringing out runs stopping runs making things messy making things easier on everybody around him so with the other talent on this front because obviously the Rams have other guys you know you're going to be asking verse and Fisk and Kobe Turner to get in on this but adding Puna Ford could really supercharge this

14:17Dave Helman: run defense and and clearly they badly need it and that point about stops is why he's a DNA changer because in theory what he's going to give you at his best is is going to have like a cascade effect on on the defense you know you mentioned him getting stops which obviously if if their team if defenses or if the offense is running on first and 10 they're going to end up in a second and 10 or second and 11 whatever it is I mentioned on a previous show maybe a month ago no team in the NFL had fewer third and seven plus which is obvious pass rush situations than the Rams and it was because they couldn't stop the run like teams just consistently were able to get four or five yards on them and not allow what is extremely promising pass rush to really get on the field and unleash themselves the way that they wanted to.

15:01Dave Helman: So if Puna Ford, again, can just give them one or two more situations per game where Jared versus Kobe Turner and Braden Fisk get to really tee off on people, that's enough to go from like, you know, the 24th. And this is kind of an interesting defense, but not good yet. So I can average slightly above average defense, which if the offense is what we think it is that makes us like a pretty clearly really strong team in the

15:25Derrik Klassen: nfc the other thing i love about puna is his reputation deservedly so is for stopping the run but like he's not he's not a guy you have to take off the field in pass rushing situations explosive 25 pressures three sacks last year and i was curious i looked this up per true media he was only on the field for 55 pass rush snaps on third down. Like obviously in, in, in clear passing situations, you're going to take him off the field for, for a pass rusher, maybe a DPR or something like that. So he's doing a lot of that in, in first and second down and situations where it's not so clearly a passing situation.

16:06Derrik Klassen: So if you were willing to leave him on the field, I think he could probably do more. It's just that there are probably guys that are better suited for that.

16:13Dave Helman: Yeah, and the Rams are actually like kind of uniquely suited for that because Kobe Turner and Braden Fisk are just awesome pass rushers. So if they if they only need to keep Puna Ford fresh for run defense, you might get even the best version of Puna Ford.

16:26Derrik Klassen: How much do you factor linebacker play into it, though? That's my one question. Obviously, the Chargers had Day on Henley last year. I know how you feel about him.

16:35Dave Helman: Even their other backers were good, too, in L.A. Like Denzel Perryman had a decent year.

16:39Derrik Klassen: Like, you know, Colson was OK when he had to play. It's not to say the Rams linebackers are bad. It's just it's a young unit. I mean, I think there's guys they feel excited about. I saw, you know, talk at Rams camp about Nate Landman. Omar Spates was was a fun find for them last year. I mean, I think if Puna Ford is doing his job, it'll make life easier on those guys. But yeah, do you have linebacker play of the caliber of what we saw from the Chargers last year? Not even close.

17:08Dave Helman: And so that is definitely going to be part of the calculus here. is again to me Deion Henley is like it's almost all pro level linebacker I think he's really really good and then again the other guys that they had like Denzel Perryman specifically is the guy who he can only do so much can't really cover but man he can come down and hit a guard and I just don't see a player like that necessarily in the in the Rams linebacker room like to me Omar Spates is an interesting player and then Nate Landman next to him was pushed out of Atlanta a linebacker room that is not that good to me either. He's a decent tackler and like, OK, between the tackles, but just not a guy who's going to give you anything outside.

17:45Dave Helman: So I think this Rams team is definitely going to be asking a lot of the front to make the linebackers job easy, which to be fair, they do have enough guys up front for that. So

17:54Derrik Klassen: and that is why Puna Ford is here. I just like this is a fun front, right? Like we already mentioned all these guys, Jared Verse, Braden Fisk, Kobe Turner, Byron Young, And now Puna Ford, it's like they're the prime rib and Puna Ford is just the order. He's the green on the plate, like he's the asparagus or the broccolini where it's like, all right, I got my greens. We want to have a ton of fun and get after the quarterback, but we got to balance this thing out. And I think Puna Ford is just the guy to solve that problem. All right. Who is your next one?

18:27Dave Helman: Yeah, my next one is a little bit of a two for one. And this is, I think, a pair of players that everyone, including ourselves, have talked about a good amount. and they were actually the first pair of players I thought about when we were doing this exercise, Dre Greenlaw and Talanoa Hufunga in Denver. Like that's that is when I think of players who are changing how a defense feels and plays. It is it is guys like Dre Greenlaw and Talanoa Hufunga are to me. I've brought up this term a number of times. They're car crash players like they want to run. They want to hit. They want to hear pads. They want to hear helmets.

19:01Dave Helman: And obviously that has like led to them getting a little bit banged up. I think especially in the case of Hufanga, he's always missed like smaller time here and there just for various different injuries. But I think when I look at the Denver defense, despite how good they were last year, they never really had that feeling in the middle of the field. Like obviously, Patrick Chetan is Patrick Chetan. He's the best corner in the league. And then the front was really good and they played really well in pass rush downs and stuff like that. But their linebacker unit with Alex Singleton missing a lot of the season and then like Justin Cernod having to play a lot last year.

19:33Dave Helman: And then even in the safety room, like PJ Locke was their other safety next to Brandon Jones. Just more like replacement level players who, to me, were not bringing that much oomph. They weren't really making defense, you know, offenses scared of running over the middle of the field. Whereas there's not many linebacker safety duos I would be more scared of running over the middle of the field than Dre Greenlaw and Talanoa Hufanga. So I just think they bring like an element of physicality that even for as good as Denver's defense was last year, they just didn't have and might need to go from, you know, seventh best defense to maybe the best in the league this year.

20:08Derrik Klassen: I went back and listened to y 'all's show last year just to familiarize myself with the concept and see what y 'all said about some guys. And Robert used Dre Greenlaw as the example of a DNA changer because he just, again, he has that physicality that even watching from your couch on TV, you can feel him through the screen. Like if you are not a 49ers fan, you probably hated this guy because like what he brought to the game, he's going to get chippy. He's going to talk mess to guys on the other team. But that's exactly what you want on your own defense. Like you want that enforcer. It's like a hockey goon.

20:51Derrik Klassen: You're like, yeah, I'm glad he's on our team because he's going to make life miserable on everybody around him. And oh, by the way, he's good at football, too. Like he's not it's not purely just hitting the crap out of people. like he's good at what he does.

21:04Dave Helman: Yeah, this isn't just like a I love this player, so I don't mean this as a negative thing, but it's not like a Landon Roberts where he's kind of just going to be a missile for you, but he's kind of limited in what he can do. And he's really just bringing physicality, but struggles in some areas. No, man, Dre Greenlaw at his best when he's healthy is one of the best linebackers in the league. And outside of just the violence and just the physicality that I think he's going to bring, I think where this is like really is going to show up for the Broncos on the field is last year, according to FTN and DVOA, the Broncos were the second worst team in the league against running back passes like they just check down screens, whatever it was, guys were just consistently able to get a lot of yardage out of the backfield.

21:45Dave Helman: I think when you have Dre Greenlaw in the field, I don't I don't conceive of him as like the Fred Warner eyes behind his head covering dig routes type of cover linebacker. But if plays are happening in front of him, he's going to kill them sooner rather than later. And so I think that that's really going to help this defense a lot. Again, get into some of those easier pass rush downs where Vance Joseph and his those pack of wolves up front, they're

22:05Derrik Klassen: going to do some crazy stuff. From what I gather, and not to say that there was bad blood in San Francisco or anything like that, but from what I gather, it seems like it mattered to Dre Greenlaw to go be the man somewhere. And as good as he is, that's not going to happen in San Francisco. Fred Warner is I mean, he's absolutely incredible. Not much needs to be said about Fred Warner. I'm curious to see how he adapts to that, not just from a leadership perspective, but. For lack of a better way to describe it, like being the general in the middle of that defense, because in San Francisco, especially when they were at their peak, you can afford to have Dre Greenlaw just be like your wild card.

22:47Derrik Klassen: He's just like the rabid dog in the middle of the defense. And Fred Warner's there to kind of handle everything and be the quarterback. I assume there's going to be a lot more of that on his plate in Denver. And I'm curious to see how he handles it.

23:00Dave Helman: I am, too, because, you know, when when I consider what the Niners were like three, four years ago, when it was Fred Warner, Dre Greenlaw and Aziz Alshire, like Aziz Alshire went off and went to multiple different teams and was able to kind of handle that. He did it for a little bit with Tennessee, and now he's doing it with Houston, where like he is the guy in the middle of that defense. I fully expect Greg Greenlaw to be able to handle a lot of that for them. So I'm couldn't be more excited for how that's going to look.

23:25Derrik Klassen: We talked about who Funga. We talked about both of these guys on a previous show a week or two ago. We talked about who Funga. You know, he was the he was an all pro a couple of years ago in San Francisco. There was obviously the injury, assuming he's fully back from that. And to be fair to him, it does take time to bounce back from those things. You hear that's that all the time. Assuming a full bill of health and full confidence in his mobility, what do what do you get most excited to see out of who funga, particularly in a defense where there's this much around him?

23:59Dave Helman: I just think to me like when I consider what Hufango can be and what this pass rush is like safeties like him who have a penchant for really wanting to get downhill and hit do better with pass rushes that are going to get there immediately and defensive schemes that are throwing a lot of pressure because the idea is okay well if they're if they're sending five or six then the quarterback's got to get the ball out and so that kind of allows safeties who really want to move down who really want to be like whole players or if you're playing quarters like really aggressive you know driving down on the hashes type of players that's exactly what Hufanga is so I think if he's healthy he's going to be a really really good fit for the way that they want to play defense so I'm you know Dre Greenlaw again I expect to be like the captain in the middle but I think Hufanga is going to really bring something coming out of the roof of that defense that they just didn't have before

24:47Derrik Klassen: I think these these guys are poster boys for changing the DNA of a defense which is a crazy thing to say about a defense that was already one of the best yeah top five in the NFL but yeah I'm so excited to see the the confidence the physicality the big play potential that these guys could potentially add to that unit in Denver all right we got plenty more names to get to we will do that on the other side of this quick break this episode is brought to you by Bill

25:14Dave Helman: the intelligent finance platform that helps businesses and accounting firms scale with proven results. If you're running a business or managing finance, you know how easy it is to get drowned in software hype. Tools that promise the world but leave you stuck doing manual grunt work. Stop the guesswork and start scaling with the proven choice. AI-powered efficiency. Their AI-powered accounts payable automation erases the busy work of capturing invoices and routing approvals, syncing seamlessly with top accounting software so you can focus on growth. Proven track record In finance, unproven tools make no sense.

25:46Dave Helman: Bill is trusted by nearly half a million businesses and their accountants to manage, move, and maximize their money. And they've securely processed over a trillion dollars in real transactions. Simplifying operations. Bill is not just moving money. They're simplifying financial operations for nearly half a million customers. Talk with a payments expert at bill.com slash proven and get a$150 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com slash proven. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details. I know, I know none of us really wants to admit it, but the end of the summer is approaching. Quince can help take some of the sting out of it, though, because look, when you look good, you feel good.

26:27Dave Helman: And maybe you don't mind that the summer is over. And with the fall staples that Quince can provide, you are going to look very, very good. Quince specializes in everyday staples that work harder, like their ultra soft organic cotton tees and premium Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They're versatile, timeless, and transition seamlessly from a casual workday to a dinner out. If you're still hanging on to some of those same worn-out basics, Quince makes it easy to upgrade. They have premium denim love. Love their jeans. Love the jeans. And tailored chinos from just$60 with the kind of perfect fit structure and high-quality fabrics you'd expect from a luxury designer brand.

27:05Dave Helman: Everything at Quince is priced 50 % to 80 % less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for high quality, not brand markup. All right. So summer. Love it. It's been great. But yes, we are getting into the fall. One thing I am very excited to break back out, my overshirt jacket that I have from Quince. Perfect for the fall and excited to try out something new, too, that I've got that I haven't been able to try out because of when I got it. The alpaca wool hooded sweater. It looks great. It feels great. I've tried it on inside, ready to bring it outside now that the weather is starting to get ready to turn.

27:40Dave Helman: Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash athletic football. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. That's quince.com slash athletic football.

28:00Dave Helman: Hey, everyone. Michael Beller for Behind the Scenes at the Athletic Football Show here. I run TAFs and our college football show, The Audible at The Athletic. And so that means I've got a lot of tasks on my plate. Most of those are fun to do. There's a reason why I'm in the business. But if I'm being honest, there's probably one or two that I wouldn't mind being able to shift off of my plate. And I think that's probably true for all of us. That one task, that other task that, you know, if someone else took care of it, you wouldn't really mind. If payroll is that one for you, Gusto is here to help.

28:28Dave Helman: Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use. So you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. Automatic payroll tax filing, simple direct deposits, health benefits, commuter benefits, workers' comp, 401k, you name it. Gusto makes it simple and has options for nearly every budget. Unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. No hidden fees. No surprises. Save time with built-in automated tools, offer letters, onboarding docs, direct deposit, and more. Get direct access to certified HR experts to help support you through any tough HR transition.

29:03Dave Helman: It's quick and simple to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running fast. Plus, don't pay a cent until you run your first payroll. Try Gusto today at gusto.com slash athletic football and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com slash athletic football. One more time, gusto.com slash athletic football.

29:30Derrik Klassen: All right, Derek, I'm excited to talk about this guy. And I'm curious for your take of whether I'm projecting a little too much because 2024 was not great for Hassan Redick. Obviously, there's a lot of reasons for that. He was in a contract dispute after getting traded to the New York Jets. It seemed very contentious. He didn't even report to the team until well into the season. He winds up playing 10 games. He finishes with one sack. He absolutely does not look like the all pro from that Philadelphia team in 2022. But landing spot matters, man. And I don't think you could choose a better one than Tampa Bay if Hasan Reddick is going to reignite any part of his career.

30:17Derrik Klassen: And I am really excited to see what he does here. He signed a one year deal with the Bucks. I think it's like 12 million with a couple of million in incentives. So this is by by former all pro standards. This is a flyer for the Buccaneers. Like if he doesn't meet that potential, it's twelve million dollars that you needed to spend anyway. But the potential is so intriguing. Derek, were you aware that since Todd Bowles took the defensive coordinator job in Tampa all the way back in twenty nineteen, the Buccaneers are second in the NFL in total sacks to eighty one. only Pittsburgh has gotten to the quarterback more often than Tampa Bay since Todd Bowles got there I would not have guessed that I would you know with as much as they blitz I guess that makes

31:04Dave Helman: sense because on the other end of these sacks they probably have given up a decent amount of explosives but uh and I think too that's hard to like I think last year they didn't feel like an elite pass rush unit but over the course of his career no that actually makes sense for him being

31:16Derrik Klassen: there the past handful of years that's the crazy thing man and yeah Todd Bowles blitzes a lot his linebackers are always going to have nice sack tallies, but he's done this without some sort of crazy elite pass rush. Like if I tell you Pittsburgh's had a ton of sacks, you're like, well, yeah, that makes sense that TJ Watts been there for the last eight years on top of like five other guys. Todd Bowles really only had, he's had one like capital D dude edge rusher in the whole time he's been doing this. Shaq Barrett had 19 and a half sacks in 2019. And other than that, he's just kind of piecing it together with five or six dudes that can get him six to 10 sacks.

31:56Derrik Klassen: Like that has been the Bucs pass rush for most of the time that he's been there. So I'm very curious to see what he could do with a guy of, you know, that's accomplished as much as Sasan Reddick has. Obviously, he's 31 years old. I would guess he's close to the end of his prime if he hasn't reached it already. but if somebody's gonna unlock that potential I like Todd Bowles as somebody to do it I do too

32:22Dave Helman: like there are there are certain parts of this that do still scare me again he's he's 31 he's coming off a year where he didn't play that much football and I think a lot of that scares me but where I do think he clearly fits into like DNA changer is his just body type wise he's way different than all the other guys they have on this roster like Yaya Diaby is a good player but he's a 270 pound try to run through your face type of player. Anthony Nelson, kind of the same thing. Chris Braswell is like a he's a little bit smaller than that. But to me, he's like a good number two edge setting, you know, type of defensive end.

32:54Dave Helman: He's not really like a finesse speed type of pass rusher. Hassan Redick at his best is just turn and burn around the edge and try to get around the arc as fast as possible. And that is something that they have not had in. I mean, probably since Shaq Barrett, truthfully. And so I do think that like in terms of really bringing in a different element to the pass rush that they haven't had in the past couple of years. I do think Reddit gives them that. And hopefully if he's good, they don't have to bring six bodies as much as they did last year.

33:23Derrik Klassen: Well, and I think that's why I thought of him as a DNA changer is if he's up to snuff, if he's even close to what we remember from a few years ago, he just changes the math for the Buccaneers. Like that is a guy that you have to pay attention to. And that makes the matchups easier on everybody else, whether it's Yaya, Kalijah Kansi, Vita Vea. I mean, not I don't think of him as like a bona fide pass rusher, but obviously he can make your life miserable, especially if you can't afford to pay extra attention to him. And then, yeah, having a badass on the edge that the other team is accounting for is also going to make life easier when you do want to bring added pressure, which Todd Bowles is still going to do.

34:06Derrik Klassen: Like he's not going to change his stripes at this point in his career. Todd Bowles is not just going to try to use four as often as possible. That's not who he is. But if they're worried about Hassan Redick, that just makes life easier on up to five or six different guys. And that's a lot of fun.

34:23Dave Helman: Yeah, I definitely want to be clear. I know Bowles is still going to blitz over like 40 percent of the time. It's just instead of nudging up against 50 percent, maybe we can be a little bit closer to 40 percent, not have to be quite as insane every single play.

34:35Derrik Klassen: it would be fun and that's it's a testament to how good he is at at scheming and defense that like the bucks are better than pretty much everybody else at getting to the quarterback but it would still be a lot of fun to see them do it with a bona fide front four that can generate that pressure on their own more often than not all right who's your next guy yeah my next is

34:58Dave Helman: and this is maybe the one that I'm most happy about happened this offseason uh to me it's Ryan Kelly and kind of by extension, Will Fries and even Donovan Jackson with with Minnesota. This was Kevin O 'Connell has been a very good coach and play caller for a long time. I think when his offenses have struggled and stalled out a little bit at times, it's because the run game has felt a little bit stale and they've never really had like the pop from the interior that they needed, like guys who could truly look at a three hundred and ten pound defensive tackle and be like, you are moving here and we're going to deal with you that way.

35:31Dave Helman: They've just they they've never really had guys like that. Like Garrett Bradbury is, I think, you know, he was a good athlete at center, but he was never really just like get a hold of a guy and move him the way that I think at his best Ryan Kelly can be. And obviously some of this sounds weird because Ryan Kelly missed a lot of time last year. Will Fries missed a good chunk of last year and Donovan Jackson is going to be a rookie. But these are all guys that at their best are incredibly stout players. They're guys that when they get their hands on you, they can really move you, which to me signals that Kevin O 'Connell wants to potentially, you know, obviously this is going to help them in the zone running game and some of their double teams and stuff, but maybe be a little bit more of a duo team, maybe be a little bit more of like a counter and power team where you're leveraging some of these down blocks and really trying to move people out of the way so you can open up space for the pullers and stuff like that.

36:17Dave Helman: It's just not something they've really succeeded with the past handful of years and really not even dabbled with as much as they would like them to. So this, to me, feels like the offseason where Kevin O 'Connell is having something of the come to Jesus moment that Sean McVay had a couple of years ago with the way that the run game functioned. And I think Ryan Kelly specifically, but then those two other guys really speak to, I think, what they're trying to accomplish with how that run game is going to look and feel.

36:41Derrik Klassen: Well, the other thing I think is worth pointing out is I wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings looked at themselves, especially once you come to terms with the fact that Sam Darnold is going to be elsewhere. where you say we cannot put J.J. McCarthy in a situation where he has to drop back so many times in a game. As good as he might be eventually, 22-year-old J.J. McCarthy cannot just drop back and stand in the pocket and we're going to expect to win a lot of games. We need to have a functional running game. We need to have something. We can build off play action. We can get him moving out of the pocket and have, you know, trust that defenses aren't just going to key in on him.

37:28Derrik Klassen: I think it's genius on their part to be like, we got to put this kid in a good situation. And part of that is actually being able to lean on the run.

37:36Dave Helman: I couldn't agree more. Like, I think the. If we get to the end of the season and the Vikings win like 12 games and have a really good season, ideally they will have been like 27th or 28th in pass rate. Like it will be a team that, again, they are living through the run game, really leveraging themselves in the play action passing game. And then obviously just because they're ahead, because we expect the defense to be helping them out a little bit, too. They'll just be able to close some games out a little bit more in the second half, which I do think at times is also something that they struggled with.

38:05Dave Helman: And so I think all of that could really help them. You mentioned helping McCarthy, too, with the run game. But I also think Ryan Kelly, too, specifically, you bring in one of not just another veteran center. I know Brad Birdie was also a veteran, but a guy who is truly played at like an all pro level before and can handle a lot mentally. That helps when you're bringing in a young quarterback like J.J. McCarthy, who, again, by year three, year four, year five, he might be able to handle all the protections and see stuff really well. But it's nice when you're trying to get a guy who didn't really have a rookie season to bring him along with a veteran center who clearly has done this before, worked with a number of different quarterbacks, a number of different systems and is going to be able to handle the mental load of the offense.

38:44Derrik Klassen: I think we as reporters do it, fans do it. We as the football viewing public, I mean, let's just call it what it is. We want to watch quarterbacks drop back in the pocket and fire lasers to every level of the field. And there's almost like a disdain for guys who don't win that way. I mean, there was disdain for J.J. McCarthy because Michigan didn't need him to do that much. it's the nexus of the Jalen Hurts debate is like well yeah how much do you really have to do if you can step away from the desire to rank quarterbacks that's the whole point man is like what you want me to apologize for making life easy on the quarterback no that is what we want to do we want the quarterback's job to be easy and even Kevin O 'Connell has spoken to that

39:31Dave Helman: specifically not not necessarily uh you know the the run rate and stuff like that but just like Like he's like, my job is to make the quarterback's job as easy as it can possibly get. And obviously, you know, not asking him to drop back a million times plays into that. But again, yeah, we've seen some of the best offenses in the league function without necessarily needing their quarterback to throw 40 times again. I mean, look at the Packers, like for as much for as great as I think Jordan Love is, I think part of why they can function that way is because they don't ask him to necessarily drop back 40 times like they're really not limiting his dropbacks.

40:04Dave Helman: But when, you know, they drop back, I think, slightly more than other teams. And they're just like, hey, man, we're going to chuck it down the field because that's what you do best. I think in the idealized version of J.J. McCarthy, at least in year one for him, it's probably going to look something more similar to that, where we're just using the run game and some screens as our short yardage type of thing. And then we're just unleashing him 10 yards down the field when he's asked to throw.

40:27Derrik Klassen: The other thing I think is really fun about this that I haven't seen mentioned as many times is just Ryan Kelly and Will Fries have played a lot of football together. Like they came over from Indy together. And obviously the scheme is going to be different. The coaching is going to be different. But I got to believe that there's a level of trust and just symbiosis that occurs there where maybe that can get this thing rolling even faster than it normally would. because they're not just good players. They're good players that are familiar with each other.

40:59Dave Helman: And that's actually such a great point, because what the Vikings have struggled with for years is like Bradbury was, you know, fine replacement level center, decent. But next to him at right guard, I mean, it was just a circus for years. Like they were trying to get Dalton Reisner in there and Ed Ingram, and they were they were throwing in other guys that they're at that spot. And it just never felt settled. And so now to your point, you're bringing two guys who have played together for years and understand how to work off of each other. So you're not only upgrading the players, you're immediately upgrading the chemistry and the two tackles outside of this new interior are it's one of the best duos in the league already.

41:33Dave Helman: So it's just you're filling out what was just the line that had two good bookends. And now it feels like you really have like a strong five across the board.

41:42Derrik Klassen: It's going to be really funny if the Vikings DNA looks like Michigan football at times this year, if they can really lean on the run game and get play action and stuff like that going. the way that they would probably prefer. Like we're, we're talking about DNA. It's, it's tempting to think of the Vikings as this high flying team because of their pass catcher talent, but that's probably the way they want to win is being a much more methodical type of team, which is, yeah, that would be an interesting departure from what we've gotten used to. Speaking of which that ties in perfectly with my next guy.

42:18Derrik Klassen: We've talked about him before. Omarian Hampton, I think, is the best bet for the Chargers if they are going to truly transform their offense, change the DNA of their offense this season. I mean, if you want to make a quick change from what we saw last year and if the unit is going to look wildly different, it's going to be because Omarian Hampton is that dude. And bonus note, Derek, Jim Harbaugh said Wednesday that he's going to play in the Hall of Fame game. So if you weren't already pumped to just see preseason football, I'm all in now, man. Even if it's only for five or six snaps, I'm ready to see some Amari and Hampton.

42:59Dave Helman: Yeah, I mean, that'll be our first look at like a high profile rookie, right? You know, for the entire season, I'm very excited for, you know, Hampton, like on one end, like the it's funny because I think we perceive of the Chargers and Greg Roman as being this team that wants to run all the time. time and they're going to be under center and all that stuff. And they tried to be that early last year. And by like week five or six, we're like, oh, we are terrible at this. We're just going to go let Justin Herbert win some games. And they really tried to win the game that way. And they became more of a drop back team than I think we consider what they want to be.

43:32Dave Helman: But Hampton, hopefully, allows them to revert a little bit back to more what they want to be, where it's like we can ground and pound and we can get explosives in the run game. That's what I think the charges have lacked not even just last year but really for the past couple of years is that they've maybe had some decent backs who could eat some carries and you know get you four and five yards you know here uh here and there but they haven't had a guy where if he got the ball on the perimeter you were like man if he makes one guy miss this is going to be an issue Hampton absolutely brings that like he's you don't necessarily think of him as like a home run hitter but he's like when he really starts to stride out he does have really good speed he's even good out of the back field.

44:10Dave Helman: He's good on third downs as a pass protector. Like he's just they're going to go from an offense that was consistently cycling guys at running back trying to find any sort of answer to like, wait, this guy can just play 90 percent of the snaps if we really need him to.

44:24Derrik Klassen: I wanted to look at some numbers and do a little bit more research on Hampton besides just watching his college tape, because most running backs look good in college. Just it is what it is. I came away really impressed with what I found among running backs who took at least 100 carries last year in college football so I mean a lot of guys Omari and Hampton ranked 100th in yards gained before contact which is one and a half yards like essentially and by the way this was a North Carolina team that had no other draft picks he was the only guy that got drafted off of this team Obviously, it was the year after they lost Drake May.

45:07Derrik Klassen: Omarion Hampton was the focal point of this North Carolina team. Everyone knew they were going to run the ball like everybody knew and everybody could get to him. Also, by the way, like he ranked 100th in yards before contact and he still finished with 1600 yards and 15 touchdowns. So it's for this guy. This guy worked hard for his production, his final year in college. and physically like as well he averaged 23 attempts per game and in eight of his 12 games he went over 25 so to your point this is a dude who ideally you do want to spell him right and they did sign Najee Harris but this guy doesn't need to come off the field like this guy can be a true workhorse right out of the gate or at least that's my expectation same here and I think sometimes

45:57Dave Helman: when we have you know teams sign a secondary back it's so that that other back can play third down and you just have your workhorse back with Hampton and Najee Harris it's kind of the opposite right where I think we're going to see Najee Harris a little bit more on first and second down where he's just you know it's the third drive of the game we're just going to have Najee Harris eat three carries on on this series and that's fine so that you can keep Hampton fresh for some of your third down stuff because again he's a very good pass protector and out of the backfield is you know he's not like you know peak James White or something where he's one of the best pass catchers in the league, but I think he's absolutely going to be able to handle himself as a pass catcher.

46:32Dave Helman: So I'm just, they can really do a lot with their back in a way that they just couldn't the last couple of years.

46:37Derrik Klassen: He averaged, I think, 33 receptions per season over his last two years in college. So similar to Ashton Gentry, we see these guys breaking explosive runs every week in college football and just assume that's all they can do. No, they are pretty accomplished receivers for college players as well and it's funny to me because based on those stats I feel like Jim Harbaugh looked at the running back class and was like who's going to get me yards even if my blocking is mid because their blocking was mid last year so Omari and Hampton offers the potential of giving you production even if it's not blocked up the way you would prefer and by the way let's say the Makai Becton signing is a home run and the Chargers are fairly healthy up front and Joe Alt is makes a year to jump.

47:25Derrik Klassen: If the line's better and you have a Marion Hampton, you could really be cooking with gas and have one of those rushing attacks where half the league just can't handle what you're doing up front. And that's very exciting.

47:37Dave Helman: I'm extremely excited for it. And again, it's not just that they needed more explosives out of the backfield. They needed more explosives, period, like like the passing offense. And I think that's going to be potentially true this year. Like when you look at the pass catching core and stuff outside. You know, Ladd McConkie is obviously great, but you're banking on a second round rookie in Trey Harris and there's not a lot behind him. They didn't upgrade tight end. So it's not like we expect the passing game to be more explosive. We kind of need Hampton to just rip off a couple of 15 yard carries a game, but I think he can do it.

48:06Derrik Klassen: And that's we did a show a week or so ago where we said we thought the arrow was kind of pointed sideways for the Chargers. There's enough other other stuff here that stops me from just jumping full on the bandwagon. again yeah I mean Trey Harris Quentin Johnston being your primary options to to jump up there and and be targets behind Ladd McConkie I'm not ready to go there but if this running game hits the way that we're describing that it could I don't know man all of that stuff gets a lot easier to manage and I hate to tie things back to the Cowboys all the time but 2016 Zeke Elliott made life so much easier on so many pieces of that Cowboys offense.

48:52Derrik Klassen: To be clear, that Cowboys offensive line was incredible and was much better than what I think the Chargers are throwing out there. But if you can even flirt with that type of running game production, it's going to make things so much easier on so many people. All right, we're going to take a quick break. Got a few more names to get to. We'll hit those on the other side. Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. If you're anything like me, you know you'd do just about anything for your pet, which is a nice sentiment, but also a scary one. Because if you've ever owned a pet, you know they run on their own logic.

49:26Derrik Klassen: They jump first, they think later, they ask questions, never. It's part of what makes them so lovable, but it's also how you end up with surprise vet visits you didn't see coming. That's why ASPCA Pet Health Insurance helps cover eligible vet expenses. So when those moments happen, you can focus on getting your pet the care they may need instead of stressing over the cost. The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program offers customizable accident and illness plans that can fit your budget, your lifestyle, and even your pet's particular quirks. Because let's be honest, vet bills can add up fast. ASPCA Pet Health Insurance has been around for almost 30 years and has covered over 1 million pets.

50:04Derrik Klassen: And when it's time to submit a claim, it's easy. Just use their app and receive reimbursement for eligible vet bills directly into your bank account so you can get back to focusing on what really matters, your pet. To explore coverage, visit ASPCAPetInsurance.com slash athletic football. That's ASPCAPetInsurance.com slash athletic football. Again, that's ASPCAPetInsurance.com slash athletic football. This is a paid advertisement. Insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance.

51:09Derrik Klassen: for details.

51:15Derrik Klassen: All right, Derek, who's your next guy?

51:17Dave Helman: Yeah, I've got one here. Another, you know, going back to the safety well, which for me, if we include Talanoa Hufanga, it's technically the third one I'm doing here. So I don't know. I guess I really just think that these guys can be DNA changers. But for me, it is Andre Sisco, who is now joining the New York Jets, formerly of the Jacksonville Jaguars. And to me, this is in a way like the opposite of the Cam Bynum thing where where I look at the Jets defense. And to me, they were a little bit more of like a quarters kind of playing a lot of zone over the past few years with Robert Sala. Now they bring in Aaron Glenn.

51:50Dave Helman: I conceive of Aaron Glenn as in an ideal world playing a lot more loaded boxes. We're playing single high. We're playing a lot of man coverage. And so I think there's some questions about, you know, how is the corner room going to shake out in that front? Are they going to be able to play as man coverage as they want. But I think the other thing to consider there is that you really want a good center fielding safety. And I think what we saw with Detroit the past few years is that Kirby Joseph absolutely was able to handle that for them. Like he was one of the best ball hawking free safeties in the league and did a really good job of being able to cover numbers to numbers and just do a good job of staying on top of routes, staying on top of posts, making sure he's not getting beat over the top and then want opportunities presented themselves on third downs when we're throwing pressure he's jumping routes he's jumping crossers and really making plays that way cisco to me brings that in a way that one you know you need in this defense but two the jets just didn't have safeties like that last you know the last couple years i think they were had a lot of safety play that was they were getting by and and you know i think cisco when he's really playing at his best can be something closer to like a pro bowl level guy who's he's a bigger guy he's a really good athlete and again i think when he's playing at his best can be a guy who can get his hands on the ball three, four or five times a year, which for a Jets defense that, you know, I don't know how much their offense is going to be helping them.

53:08Dave Helman: They need to get their hands on the ball as much as possible. And Cisco potentially brings that.

53:13Derrik Klassen: I, I admire your, your boldness here, Derek, just because like, it's easy to, to evaluate a rookie and say, Hey, this, this guy was good. This is what he's good at. We can plug him into this unit and make it better. Or this is a good player from another team that's going to a unit. And here's how I'll make it better. Honorary Cisco was on a bad, bad unit. Like the Jags specifically against the pass were horrific last year. And it's admirable on your part to be like, yeah, last year wasn't great, but this is what this guy's good at. And here's how it can translate into a new scheme, even if the 2024 tape is not super inspiring.

53:55Derrik Klassen: And I I imagine that's doing some heavy lifting here that like, hey, Andre Sisco is not at fault for the failings of the Jacksonville Jaguars last year.

54:05Dave Helman: It's a lot of like I just don't know if any Jaguars player outside of, you know, maybe Trayvon Walker and Josh Heinz Allen played their best ball last year. And so I'm willing to give some of those guys some leeway. And I think I do think if you're going to sell yourself on Andre Sisco, you kind of have to go back and watch some of 2022, 2023 and really sell yourself that his best tape in those years is really what more of you're going to get. But to me, when I look at going from what was just a disaster of a defense under Ryan Nielsen last year with Jacksonville to Aaron Glenn, who in my mind is one of the sharpest and most well put together defensive play callers in the league and defensive minds.

54:44Dave Helman: Yeah, man, you could pretty easily get me there on like Andre Sisco going from, you know, shaky player playing behind a pretty bad defense to being a really useful player. And I also think safety is almost in the way that corner can be. Safety play can be kind of volatile year to year where like if you're the last line of defense, but the defense sucks, you're probably just not going to look very good, especially as a center fielder like Cisco. So I think if the Jets defense really puts itself together a little bit this year, Glenn calls a better defense. I have some faith that, you know, again, I don't know if he's going to get back to his peak, but can definitely be a lot better than he was in Jacksonville last year.

55:19Derrik Klassen: seven combined interceptions, 15 combined pass breakups in 2022 and 2023. Like there's definitely production. Yeah. And if Aaron Glenn is willing to bet that 2024 is, is a mulligan year and Oh, by the way, it's funny. And I know last year, you know, people talk about last year being a down year for, for sauce Gardner and some of the guys on that jets defense, he is stepping into a situation with a pretty nice supporting cast like a lot of the guys that make that Jets defense hum are still there and so I feel perfectly comfortable placing the bet that a rising tide lifts all boats and yeah if this guy's just playing center field with sauce Gardner and and with that pass rush doing its thing I think the results here could be good and that's good to bring up too because I

56:09Dave Helman: think you know there's been a little bit of like oh well how good can the Jets defense really be because of how bad they were last year. But it's like, did anything the Jets defense did after like week seven last year even count? Like it just felt like that team as a whole just kind of collapsed and kind of capitulated, especially once Robert Sala got fired. And I think what kind of what happened to Sauce Gardner kind of plays into that, where he just didn't play some of his best ball. But again, you bring in a coach who I think Aaron, I really think Aaron Glenn could be like a special type of coach.

56:40Dave Helman: If he's who I think that he is, then I think almost all of these guys are going to start playing their best ball again. And I think that's especially going to be true in the secondary, not just because of the addition of guys like Cisco and Gardner, hopefully playing better. But like Aaron Glenn is a DB coach. He was a former DB himself. Like that's what he does best. And so I expect him to get the best out of some of those guys.

57:00Derrik Klassen: I'm I'm pretty bought in on Aaron Glenn. And this is something that has been talked about on this show a lot. It's like the archetype of the head coach that you look for. And I think I'm I'm predisposed to want the offensive architect, the play caller who's going to have the relationship with the quarterback. But everything about Aaron Glenn's vibe and everything about what we saw in Detroit, even like I know how bad it was at the end of the year last year. But even the way that Aaron Glenn tried to problem solve with all those injuries, I'm very bought in with with what I've seen from him. His his pedigree is outstanding.

57:39I don't have the list in front of me, but the guys coached under like half of the best defensive minds of the last like 25 years.

57:46Derrik Klassen: Like he's got a tie to every quality defensive coaching staff in the league. I'm I'm very excited to see what he can do. All right. I got two rookies for you. Just keep my my rookie trend going. And really, I want I want your take on this because I'm I'm not sold that this is going to happen. I think the Atlanta Falcons need it to happen. I think when you do what they did and you draft Jalen Walker, 15th overall, and then you trade a future one to move up 20 spots and take James Pierce Jr. They better be DNA changers, man. Like if we're doing that, if we're basically trying to easy bake oven this pass rush and turn it into a fearsome unit in one night, which is what they did.

58:34Derrik Klassen: I don't have the patience for long runways and development. I need it to pay off right away. So I am hoping that these two edge rushers change the DNA in Atlanta and Lord knows they need it. 31st in the league in sacks last year, 27th in pass rush win rate. I'm sure Falcons fans are well aware of this. I'm sorry, but they haven't even been in the top half of the league in sacks in eight years is got to get fixed. And when you do something this bold to fix it, I need to see results quickly.

59:07Dave Helman: Yeah, this I think, you know, most of the other players and groupings we've brought up, like the Dre Greenlaw and Talon, Oahu Fonga, Puna Ford, Omerian Hampton, like Ryan Kelly. These are players that we expect to change the DNA of their teams. This is kind of like one you said with the Falcons. It's like there's a lot of, you know, it's just you're banking on smaller, skinnier pass rushers. And like in the case of Jalen Walker, wasn't even purely a pass rusher coming out of college. So there's a little bit of projection there. And then I think James Pierce coming out of Tennessee, again, a little bit more of a small guy in the league that I think is increasingly kind of moving away from that style of, you know, the Bryce Huff-esque speed rusher.

59:48Dave Helman: but James Pierce is that and he was a guy who in college like they would kind of take him off the field or move around the defensive formation intentionally to not have him defend the run at all so you might end up in a spot where James Pierce especially early on is only a DPR and then Walker is really going to be working through a lot of stuff trying to figure out how to purely be an edge player purely be a pass rusher so there's a lot of projection here but again they they probably needed this DNA change more than like any other thing that we've put on the list here.

1:00:18Derrik Klassen: This is the time of year where my head's on a swivel because all the word coming out of Falcons camp is that James Pierce is making life miserable on every single person that he plays. And if that is true, if that carries over into the season, then we could really be cooking with gas. I mean, ideally you want both of these guys to hit right away, but even if just one of them does, I mean, they signed Leonard Floyd in the offseason. One of my favorite players in the league, by the way, I just love like he just decided to become a mercenary for hire. And every year you can just kind of count on him getting eight to ten sacks.

1:00:56Derrik Klassen: So you got Leonard Floyd. That is that's a decent starting place, assuming one of these guys hits. And if they both do right away, I mean, that would be incredible. And I mean, there's reason for optimism that it could write. Like, I mean, Jared verse and Braden Fisk just had this effect on the Rams a year ago. So I'm not saying it's impossible. It does feel statistically unlikely again, especially like you mentioned, Jalen Walker is he's a guy learning how to play on the edge. Robert told us the other day that he's working exclusively at edge in camp, but still got to carry that over into regular season NFL games.

1:01:35Derrik Klassen: It would be incredible. I think it's statistically unlikely, but even if just one of these guys is good right away. If it's James Pierce, cool. Then maybe we can, you know, I can talk myself into this thing coming along, but I'm nervous about the idea of both of these guys needing some time. And then it's like, well, what did we do this for then? Like we don't pick in the first round next year and why? That's what scares me.

1:01:58Dave Helman: And so because of that, I actually really want to ask you, because I don't know if I remember talking to you about this at the time. What did you think of both of these players as prospects? And like, you know, how much faith do you actually have that both of these guys are going to hit potentially in year one.

1:02:12Derrik Klassen: I actually really like Pierce a lot. And I get your point. Like he's he's a speed guy. He's he's not this big hulking power player. But the track record speaks for itself. And I'm simplifying the hell out of this. But you get 19 and a half sacks in the SEC. I mean, that's those are the players that you're going to be playing in the NFL for the most part. It's the conference that has put the most players in the NFL over the last however many years. And if sacks don't do it for you, he led the sec and pressures over his final two years as well. He had 107 pressures in his final two college seasons.

1:02:48Derrik Klassen: I trust that that can translate. And even if he's not, you know, a 16 sack guy, I trust that James Pierce could be reliably like an eight, 10, 12 sack player. And I'm a little nervous about trading away a future one for that. Like, like if I'm trading away a future one, I do want the 16 sack guy. But if he can reliably do that over the course of his career, I like that. Walker, he's one of those ones where I mean, like the highlights are incredibly fun and it's easy to be intoxicated by it. But it it's it's risky, right? I mean, this is not groundbreaking analysis. I don't I didn't love him as much as a lot of other people did.

1:03:34Derrik Klassen: But I recognize that if he hits those thresholds and meets that potential, it could be very, very scary. OK, that's that's a little bit where I landed with Walker, too. I am nine out of ten times. I am the guy that would rather have the like the finished product player that's maybe not as talented. And maybe that like that means that I won't hit on the freak guys. And typically I'm OK living in that world. Like I'm I'm OK settling for the known quantity more often than not.

1:04:06Dave Helman: Well, so that's funny that you land there with like I liked Pierce for that reason, because I've always liked this kind of archetype of player. And I think I struggled with him in a little bit of ways for the opposite reason, where on the edge, I like the guys who have length, who can play through your chest, who can like really defend the run and stuff. And when I look at James Pierce, he just didn't check any of those boxes like the line I kind of had all throughout draft season was like he can be Bryce Huff. are you spending a first round pick on Bryce Huff? That was kind of like my, I just don't know.

1:04:37Derrik Klassen: To be clear, I would not have, again, risk freaks me out in the draft and I would not have done this trade that the Falcons did. But if James Pierce develops into that type of player, they can laugh all the way to the bank. And I suspect there's some urgency to, like I said, like really microwave this pass rush because it's year five for Terry Fontenot. He hasn't had a winning record yet. The Falcons haven't been to the playoffs in eight years. I don't know that the Falcons have to do anything crazy this year, but you want to see some proof of concept, right? Like you'd like to see the Falcons finally deliver on the hype that they get every offseason.

1:05:17Derrik Klassen: And at least maybe they win the division, or at least they finish with a winning record for the first time in a few years. And improving the pass rush is a big part of that. I just, I think this stuff needs to work out, not just for the Falcons on the field this year, but this this is this could be a very questioned front office maneuver if it doesn't hit like gangbusters.

1:05:39Dave Helman: Yeah, I think the last thing I'll actually say is I've mildly sold myself on the Walker thing just because, again, when I think about it more, I like players with violence and length and he does have that. But also Raheem Morris has done some interesting and creative stuff with his edge players in the past, you know, obviously going back to some of his time with the Rams. So for a player who like we thought maybe was going to play off the ball, I do think having a little bit of that flexibility with a coach like Morris, you could get an interesting player there.

1:06:06Derrik Klassen: I love these guys for this exercise, too, because. If they're if they're successful quickly or like I said, even if just one of them is successful quickly, but like if the Falcons have two edge rushers that they can count on reliably. I think that that changes the calculus of how I view the Falcons. Like I, I am much higher on them if this works out. And like I said, the training camp reports are intoxicating and I'm excited to see how well that carries over. All right. You had a rookie as well. Let's wrap it up here. You got one more guy from this year's draft class. Who you got?

1:06:42Dave Helman: Yeah, I wanted, you know, I, this is a, this is one of those exercises where I don't want to load up on rookies, but I did have to get at least one in here. And last year, it's funny. the one I mentioned was J.C. Latham of the Tennessee Titans because it was to me it was a lot of like okay you're bringing in this guy who's just absolutely massive like 330 pounds he's gonna move people in the run game and to me I think if you're talking about DNA changers on the offensive line it kind of has to be that for me I'm funny enough going back into the the Jets pool here which maybe I just think this team is going to be better than I than I than they should but

1:07:15Derrik Klassen: Derek Klasson Jets believer let's talk about it which is funny because like by week five last year

1:07:20Dave Helman: I was like, this team sucks. They're not going anywhere. But now they have Aaron Glenn. And so I like them. But my last pick is a tackle. They just drafted Armand Membu. He I loved his film at Missouri, man. Like he just I remember he was one of those players where this happens during the draft season. I went in watching the Texas A &M game for Shamar Stewart and Nick Scowerton, like 10 plays in. I was like, I'm pretty sure the best player on the field is the right tackle. like just the movement skills are insane he's not like the tallest guy but he just has this bulky sturdy frame that once he gets his hands on you he's so so explosive and has just like insane torque when he moves you like some of his goal line and red zone stuff to me was just again the way that he can step to the second level and really move people to me is electric so I think when you factor that in with some of the other young promising pieces that the Jets kind of have on their offensive line.

1:08:14Dave Helman: I just think if Membu brings the power and pop that I really think he can in the run game, especially for a team that with Justin Fields at quarterback and with like three pretty capable running backs, I think are going to run the ball a lot. Membu can kind of be the driver here that really puts that to where they want it to go.

1:08:31Derrik Klassen: It's such a fun draft prep thing when you wind up totally enamored with somebody that wasn't even on your radar when you turn on a game. You're just like, wait, no, that's that's who I want to watch I don't care about this guy anymore that always becomes your

1:08:45Dave Helman: favorite prospect by the end right like the the couple of guys you notice doing that are like still by the end of the process you're like yep that's that's one of my favorite players

1:08:53Derrik Klassen: there's there's so much to like he's he's 21 years old and and played plenty of college football by the way like he started at Missouri for three years uh so it's not even like it's again it's not that much of a any draft prospect is a projection but like we've seen plenty of him in college like at this even though he's young he's played plenty of football and I'm with you man I I said this on a previous show lord help me like I I I'm intrigued by what the Jets got there I guess is what I'm trying to say like just the tackles again a good offensive line can make everything look so much better.

1:09:34Derrik Klassen: It can make everybody's life easier. You have a quarterback with some mobility. Do I think Justin Fields is going to be this year's Sam Darnold? Not really. Like, I'm not expecting that. But I do think the Jets could have a really interesting and entertaining offense if it's called the right way. And I think it hinges on Membu and Fashanu. But this could be a team that's a pain in the ass to play in my mind, at least, if this stuff hits the way we want it to. OK, I'm glad I'm not alone because I feel like a crazy person sometimes, but I look at it and I'm like, you know, this could be this could be a lot of fun.

1:10:11Dave Helman: Yeah, I hesitate to say they'll be good. Right. But I just again, I already talked about how much I love Aaron Glenn. I probably still like Justin Fields is not good, but I think he's like a less embarrassing player than I think than people probably conceive him to be. I think he can be like the 24th best quarterback in the league and that's fine. They just paid Garrett Wilson, who is good I look at this young offensive line I think that they could be decent um and then I liked a lot of the rest of their draft class like Mason Taylor's good Azaria Thomas I really liked the corner so I just almost every single move that they made this offseason made sense to me and then I look at the defense and I'm like they'll definitely be better than they were last year so there's just Membu might be the the peak of my excitement in terms of like the new additions on top of Aaron Glenn but there's this is a team that I'm extremely curious to see how well put together it looks by like the end of October.

1:11:03Derrik Klassen: Justin Fields was playing well enough in Pittsburgh that I thought Mike Tomlin was crazy for making the switch. Same. And that's and he wasn't amazing and if Justin Fields had stayed the quarterback in Pittsburgh their season would have gone the same way or been worse like you're still talking about a team whose ceiling is a wild card loss at best, but he was still playing the role that you want him to, which is for the most part, not making mistakes and keeping you in the game and letting your defense do the heavy lifting, basically. And that formula could work here. And oh, by the way, the Steelers offensive line was not good.

1:11:48Derrik Klassen: And we don't know that the Jets offensive line is good yet either, by the way. But if Mimbu is the man, if Fashanu is good, like that creates another layer of intrigue, we'll say. Yeah, I don't think either one of us is ready to put the Jets in the playoffs, but I just think this could be a pesky team. That's that's the opinion I keep coming to.

1:12:10Dave Helman: Yeah, they're I'm not going to call a playoff team, but they're going to be the I wake up on Tuesday morning and I just want to see what's going on in the film room. They're going to be that type of team.

1:12:19Derrik Klassen: It's funny, too, because the NFL, like people talk about it's you're not going to see as much diversity in scheme as you do when you watch like college football, obviously. But this could be this year's team that just looks wildly different than most other teams in the NFL. And a mobile quarterback is going to be a big part of that. But also, if you have an offensive line that lets him get creative and succeed in unorthodox ways, we'll say like that's going to be a big part of it. All right. That is all we got. That was a ton of fun, man. I appreciate you, Derek.

1:12:55Dave Helman: That was I love this show every year. So I'm extremely excited to have done this one again.

1:12:59Derrik Klassen: I'm just I'm making mental notes of all of these guys. And we'll see how all of this ages. And maybe in a month, maybe in two months, we'll look at each other and be like, yeah, no, the Jets, the Jets aren't it, man. But for the time being, a ton of fun and it's something to watch as we get into the season. I appreciate it. That's all we got for now. Plenty more content coming your way. We're five days a week. Robert's at training camp. We'll have plenty to break down as we move along. Until then, we appreciate it. And we'll talk to you all next time.

1:13:42Derrik Klassen: With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5 % cash back at different categories each quarter on up to$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details.