The training camp storylines worth buying into

0:00Derrik Klassen: There's something about fall that makes you want to slow everything down. Cooler mornings, longer evenings, a home that feels like it's exhaling. Pura fills every home with the sense of fall automatically, so your whole home feels like autumn the moment you walk in. Right now, get a free diffuser plus 20 % off select curated sets. Visit Pura.com to bring the season home. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I am Dave Hellman and call today a news dump. In case you're not aware, the entire NFL has been in training camp for a week or more at this point. And there's a lot of stuff going on. A lot of storylines, a lot of tidbits, a lot of injury updates that maybe we don't have time to get to on our regularly scheduled programming.

0:48Derrik Klassen: So while Robert Mays is continuing his training camp tour, Derek Klassen and myself decided, let's try to round it up. Let's take the most interesting storylines, buzzy tidbits we can find, break it all down. How excited should we be? How pessimistic should we be? What's standing out to us from the first week of training camp? Fun little news roundup for y 'all on today's show. Let's get right into it.

1:20Derrik Klassen: One more quick note before we get into today's show. So we recorded this episode about two hours before the Jameer Gibbs contract came down, which, as you'll hear in a minute, was something we talked a lot about at the top of the show. Jonathan Taylor signs a multi-year extension on Thursday morning. We guessed at the time that Gibbs's deal would be coming quickly after that. We just weren't sure how quickly. So a mere matter of hours after Jonathan Taylor signs an extension, Jameer Gibbs gets his. And as we might have guessed, it moves him to the top of the running back market. A very busy week for running backs as first Bajon Robinson, then Jonathan Taylor.

2:02Derrik Klassen: Now Jameer Gibbs get hefty, hefty extensions. Jameer Gibbs, 67 and a half million over three years, 51 and a half million guaranteed, which puts him at the top of the market in all the big categories. That is three running backs who are now averaging 20 plus million dollars a year. This week alone, four total, along with Saquon Barkley, Jameer Bijan and Jonathan Taylor, all making 22 million dollars a year. Gibbs just slotting in slightly above that, which Derek and I had a good conversation about just how high he might go. So with that out of the way, we guessed at it. We danced around it for a little while.

2:48Derrik Klassen: But now we know Jameer Gibbs, the latest running back to get his payday. And with that, we can get into the rest of the episode. All right, Derek, the purpose of this show is to get excited about different training camp storylines, try to project things, try to squint into the future and basically recklessly talk shit about what's happening in all 32 training camps. there are some news items I want to hit at the top of the show though before we do that starting with the very very concrete it's been a theme for the week Bajon Robinson got his contract extension earlier this week and on Thursday morning we wake up to the news that Jonathan Taylor did in fact get a two-year extension kind of been hinted at he even said after the Bajon news came down that he was going to talk to his agent and sounds like it was productive two extra years on top of the one year that was remaining on his deal at$22 million per year.

3:45Derrik Klassen: I think it was$39 million in guarantees, which bumps him ever so slightly above Bajon's number. Makes perfect sense to me. The guy was on an offensive player of the year track before Daniel Jones got hurt. I don't blame anybody for getting this done and keeping JT happy.

4:01Dave Helman: Yeah, I mean, he was awesome for them last year. Like when the offense was working, obviously, you know, the passing game was cool, but also Jonathan Taylor felt like once every 10 touches was finding himself in the end zone like he was as explosive as anybody in the league and I think generally we've gotten to a place where when we're paying running backs on their third contract we're like that's kind of where we're at with Jonathan Taylor he's a little bit older I think he's 27 right now and this deal would take him through until he's almost 30. I think a lot of times we get a little bit hesitant with that but this only run it's not like he signed like a four-year deal that they're gonna have to try to get out of if this you know falls apart Like, I think taking him until through his 29 season is really not that crazy, especially because, like, he is such a monster athlete that even if he loses a little bit of it, I still think that he's going to be a fairly productive player for them.

4:50Dave Helman: So I think this is just a spot where he's proven that when the offense works, he's one of the most explosive players in the league. And also, like, we've talked about this before, especially with the Daniel Jones contract and all that stuff. They've committed to this version of the roster for, like, the next two seasons. And so to make sure that he's going to stick around and be a part of that, I think just makes all the sense in the world.

5:11Derrik Klassen: I know business is trickier than this sometimes, but I just I like it when a team rewards a guy. Yeah, like he's such a big piece of your identity. The offense. I know Daniel Jones was a revelation last year, but the offense runs through Jonathan Taylor. Just keep him happy. Like he's played deservingly of this. Like you said, he'll only be 29 in the final year of this deal. 30 is the age that scares most people. So you kind of get this deal in under the buzzer of where you typically start to get scared of a running back's wear and tear. And if that keeps them happy, by the way, if you want to look at it cynically, we never have the structure of these deals the day that they get agreed to.

5:52Derrik Klassen: But if you structure the guarantees in the right way, you could probably get out of that deal in two years if you feel like you need to. And so this just makes sense for all sides. And I love this trend that we're seeing of signing running backs to two and three year extensions because it's it's the four or five and six year stuff that scare the crap out of you with a running back. So I'd way rather just load up some guarantees on a shorter deal.

6:16Dave Helman: I mean, that's a good point. It does seem like running backs or teams or agents or whatever it is are more willing to like, OK, let's actually up the market for what like let's get what we are worth. but we're willing to make the concession that it will only be a two or three year extension, as opposed to, you know, receivers are often signing for four, maybe even five year deals.

6:35Derrik Klassen: I am really curious to see what that winds up looking like, because Bajan signed for 22 million a year. Excuse me, Bajan signed for 22.2. And Jonathan Taylor came in just under that at 22 with a little extra and guarantees. How much more does Jameer Gibbs want? Like, I think common logic and just enough experience with these sorts of things leads you to believe he'll slot in at like 22 and a half or 23 a year. I do wonder how much more that number is going to be though. Like if Jameer Gibbs really sees himself as that level of a playmaker, he's an incredibly young player. He's also, I think we talked about this earlier this summer.

7:19Derrik Klassen: He has split time with David Montgomery up to this point in his career. I looked it up. Bajon Robinson has averaged 50 more touches per season over the course of their careers than Jameer Gibbs. And so if Jameer Gibbs is taking on a significantly larger role in the offense and is going to get that much more wear and tear, I wonder how much more he wants. I'm sure it's not going to blow the Bajon deal out of the water, but I do wonder if that's a sticking point where it's like, no, I don't quite want$1 more than Bajon Robinson. I would like it to be a little bit bigger of a number.

7:53Dave Helman: But I think for what you just said, like the fact that he's never really been the workhorse like that, and obviously he's gotten a good amount of touches and there have been games where David Montgomery is not healthy and he is obviously able to take that workload. But the fact that like we've seen Bajon Robinson time, basically other than his rookie year, he's been just an absolute force in terms of the amount of workload that he can take. Maybe Gibbs can do it, but he is a little bit smaller than guys like Bajon Robinson. And so I think you do have to wonder about it a little bit. But I ultimately do think, though, the deal is like agents love to be able to go to spot tracker over the cap and be like my guys at the top of the running back list.

8:29Dave Helman: And I really think that sometimes it is that simple. And so I don't think that this is going to clear 23, 24 million. I really think it is going to be like a hair over whatever Bajon Robinson made.

8:39Derrik Klassen: It feels like a formality, whatever the final numbers are. And whether that happens later this evening or over the weekend, whatever, I'm not I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep about it. The other big official news coming out of the NFL over the last couple of days is a very unusual name on the NFL's transactions wire. If you're not familiar with the way that works, like every day, especially at this time of year, when teams are working players out, moving players to different lists, you have to report that stuff to the league. and at this time of year, every team in the league is working out all kinds of guys.

9:19Derrik Klassen: And for the most part, they're not household names. And then in a rare instance on Wednesday night, you see that the LA Rams worked out a Donald from the university of Pittsburgh. And that's a little outside the norm of what you typically see. Aaron Donald did a workout at the Rams facility. I'm curious what you make of it.

9:40Dave Helman: I mean, this just felt like it was coming. it seemed like Sean McVay and the rest of the Rams organization couldn't really keep a lid on it and I think my favorite part was Sean McVay's response to I think it was Greg Rosenthal Greg Rosenthal asked him about like hey Aaron Donald showed up on the transaction wire as a tryout and Sean McVay's answer was it came up as a tryout like he was kind of like oh is that what it came up as like no it's Aaron Donald like we we know what the deal is and he was like it's the best workout we've ever seen he was just making jokes about it because yeah it's Aaron Donald and I think it's funny like when he retired and like let's say a summer ago or two summers ago we all made the jokes of like every time we saw him we were like dude he could come back and play right now and it he literally is doing it and so I think that he's if anybody can come back after having not played for two years and still be maybe not a dominant force but still a very good player it's it's that guy it's the best defensive tackle I've ever seen

10:34Derrik Klassen: I just wish we could be blunt about what's going on here like at this point I don't believe there's any doubt that Aaron Donald's coming back like so the official rules of the situation are Aaron Donald worked out with Rams equipment at the Rams facility and they have to report that to the NFL that's how he winds up on the transaction wire he could have done this anywhere in the LA area and not had to tell anyone about it if he was really worried about how good he was going to look or you know whether he wasn't 100 sure he was coming back this very much feels like a done deal and maybe Aaron Donald would just rather not go through the bullshit part of training camp where you're going four days in a row and sleeping in full in in bunk beds at the dormitory or whatever but like when push comes to shove when we get down to brass tacks Aaron Donald's coming back That's my read on this.

11:30This is his version of like, why does Jadavian Clowney always sign on August 4th?

11:36Dave Helman: It's like because he doesn't want to do like if however much of the calendar he can limit he's going to. And again, a player like Aaron Donald, like maybe for most other players who have taken some amount of time off, you would want to be like, well, you want to get them as many practice reps as they can and all this stuff. But it's like he's he's Aaron Donald, man. I think he's going to be able to come back and it's going to be like riding a bike for him.

11:55Derrik Klassen: I think we could just say that. Like we don't have to do this song and dance. You can just say Aaron will be there when we get into game plan mode for week one. And he'll be on the plane to Australia. And that's all there is to it.

12:10Dave Helman: And if they have to slow play him and it's for the first eight weeks of the season, he's not playing a ton. Okay. They might be the best defense in the league without him. So like if they need to slow play a little bit and just kind of let him be fresh for this December, January stretch. I think that that's also totally fine. Like they don't really need to work him into things during the preseason and OTAs and all that jazz. Like it's just it doesn't seem all that necessary to me.

12:35Derrik Klassen: Doesn't even feel like a poorly kept secret at this point. We're just waiting for Aaron and the Rams to figure out what they want the graphics to look like. But for the record, I'm happy about that. I can't wait to watch the guy. I just, you know, you just tell me it's happening and I don't have to sit here and parse through all the different news items.

12:53Dave Helman: And I actually think like, it's funny, we were talking about on, I think it was our Half Bakes Take show, Robert had brought up the point of like, oh, they, you know, all these young guys who are potentially going to be paid for the Rams, you know, Nakua, all their defensive linemen, all that stuff. They trade away a very good player who was about to get paid for them and Jared Verst to bring in Myles Garrett, Trent McDuffie, all these guys. And I think there is a potential of like some of the like, hey, man, we've worked really hard for this team for two or three years. Why are we bringing in all these other veterans that you're going to pay this amount of money to?

13:22Dave Helman: At the same time, I do think that there is an element of like, we might be playing for the best roster like that the NFL has seen in decades. And that is probably a pretty cool proposition for a lot of these players.

13:33Derrik Klassen: I'm glad you brought that up. I had a similar rebuttal to Mays when he said that a few days ago. And I think there's probably something to that. But. Farron Donald comes back and Miles Garrett's there and the Rams kick ass and take names. Byron Young's going to be fine. I mean, his future might not be with the LA Rams. And I get why that might make him feel some type of way, but that's what the money's for. And somebody will give you a lot of it if you're a piece of an amazing Rams team. Like the guys that they don't prioritize will, and especially if the Rams make a Super Bowl run, you will get the Super Bowl bump.

14:13Derrik Klassen: Like somebody will want to give you a shit ton of money to try to break a piece of that off. So even if maybe somebody feels a little, you know, cold shouldered about it, it'll be okay in the long run. All right. That is the, that's the, that's the news elements of the show. The rest of this is just juicy goss. I just went through my notes and the stuff I thought was interesting from the time camp opened. I've just been meticulously tracking all the hype in all the different cities. and I don't know. I've got like 15 things that I want to talk about. I don't know if we'll get to all of them, but I'm just going to go through the stuff that I think is interesting and we'll try to determine if we think it's a big deal or not.

14:55Derrik Klassen: And I'm going to start with one that I think will be near and dear to your heart, man. Jacoby Lane is like blowing up Baltimore Ravens camp and I don't know what to do with my hands. Apparently he does because offensive coordinator Declan Doyle said he's got the hands of Mike Thomas. which is what really turned my head like if we're comparing a rookie to the Saints offensive player of the year I mean it's the time of year for that type of shit but every time I check in on the Ravens Jacoby Lane is like dominating the storylines in Ravens camp I hope that he's good

15:31Dave Helman: man because the entire time that Lamar Jackson has been in Baltimore I've been like man can we just get a ball winner can we just get a ball winner somebody who can just go up and get it they tried to sign DeAndre Hopkins last year and they were like there was like one cool play every three weeks and that was it but it wasn't like a consistent thing that they could rely on Jacoby Lane if there's anything about his college profile that I'm certain he can do it's like go up and grab the ball like there were reasons to maybe question what he could be I don't think he's like the greatest athlete route running was up and down at times like he had some weird moments in terms of just like fighting other players and stuff at times like that but he can catch the damn football and so if we can get Jacoby Lane and he doesn't have to be a star if he's just like a solid rookie number two who can like do some of these be like a light version of like what romeo dobs was almost like for the green bay packers where like he's a guy who can win on third down and make some of these big catches or like a juwan jennings light sort of player if he can be that and zay flowers can be a 1100 yard player again and mark andrews has something left and derrick henry and the run gamer is still good like i think all of those things you can cut you

16:32Derrik Klassen: can see why this would come together pretty well my only question is how realistic do you think this is just given what the Ravens already have. I mean, say what you will about Rashad Bateman, but he's been there forever. Obviously, Zay Flowers just got paid. This is a team that runs a shitload of 12 personnel anyway. And Declan Doyle's coming from Chicago, where they love to have a lot of tight ends on the field. I'm really curious about how much opportunity there really would be for a rookie. Or maybe he's just that good that it's undeniable. That's what I'm trying to parse through right now.

17:10Dave Helman: I would guess that especially early in the season, they're not going to put him out there for 12 personnel. Like immediately when it's just two receivers, it's probably going to be Zay and Bateman. But I do think that there's a chance that because Lane has the size and if they can really get him to like be a guy who wants to kick ass as a blocker, that he's not necessarily going to like fully take over the role that Rashad Bateman has. But I do think that there's a chance that they could work him in for certain stuff. And I think that we've seen some of the teams around the league, even if Lane remains third in the pecking order, a lot of these teams will just rotate their two and three just based on formation or wanting to keep some of these guys fresh and all that, almost like a pass rusher rotation.

17:45Dave Helman: So I think there's a chance that if he's looking good and they think that he can handle that amount of snaps, again, I don't think he's going to take the starting job. But if he can be a solid wide receiver, that is more than they've had, especially at the wide receiver three spot, it feels like in a long time. I mean, how many years were they trying to get like, can we get it out of DeAndre Hopkins? Can we get Odell Beckham to have a good year for it? just like shit like that. And then potentially having a rookie who can do it would be nice.

18:09Derrik Klassen: A little birdie who might be the main host of this program and who might be in Baltimore right now said Lane has been running with the ones in 11 personnel. So even if the offense might limit some opportunities, it sounds like they're going to give them a chance. And to your point, I think it's just refreshing to see a young guy getting this opportunity and hopefully taking it and running with it after yeah the different places the Ravens have looked for this support over recent years especially mid-round guys like

18:42Dave Helman: I it does not feel like the Ravens have hit on like a mid-round receiver in a hundred years like you know Bateman is okay and Zay Flowers was a first round pick and like their first round picks they've you know middling success but it just does not feel like they've hit like a mid-round pick where it's like, holy shit, that guy is awesome in a while.

19:01Derrik Klassen: You're not wrong, but we will always have the Tylan Wallace punt return against the rim. Okay.

19:10Dave Helman: Tylan Wallace was one of my favorite. Like it felt like once a season, he just made an insane play and then just disappeared. Like just like one screen a year or like one punt return, something. And the fact that we're not going to get that is a little bit sad now.

19:25Derrik Klassen: I thought Tylan Wallace was going to light the league on fire coming out of Oklahoma State in that draft cycle. And when he returned that pun, you couldn't tell me shit. And you don't have to tell me what else has happened in his career. I don't care. That moment was worth it. All right. What's what's what's on your mind right now, Derek? What's at the top of your list? Just checking around training camp storylines.

19:46Dave Helman: I mean, one of my big ones we're talking about, like, Aaron Donald. Can we just kind of stop the charade? I maybe this is because I'm already predisposed to think this, but like, I feel like we should probably stop the charade with the Vikings quarterback competition. This very much feels like it's going to be Kyler Murray's job. And I know that like on the first practice or two, people were like, oh, it was split and Kyler wasn't having his best day. It seems like a lot of the reporting and a lot of the practice talk since then has been that Kyler Murray has, even if not perfect, and I don't think anybody thought that he was going to be perfect, does seem like the significantly better player.

20:18Dave Helman: and it seems like people expect him to be the week one starter, which, again, I think that's what we thought when we signed and this team was just giving J.J. McCarthy a chance to compete because when you spend the 10th overall pick on somebody, why would you not? But this feels like we're getting to the point where it would be kind of ridiculous if they don't start to just name Kyler Murray the starter and give him all the spots.

20:37Derrik Klassen: It's an interesting juxtaposition between Kyler Murray not being a perfect player and needing time in the system, but that still being three or four steps beyond the type of development that JJ McCarthy needs. And it's not necessarily fair because that was the read on him coming out, but this is the situation you're in now where it's year three for JJ McCarthy. Last year went the way that it went there. It just feels like there's, there's too much urgency for me to buy that. You're going to make the decision that would require that long of a leash and that much development. And that's why I wasn't sure I ever bought that this was a competition, even though the Vikings have been committed to it over the first week or so of training camp.

21:23Dave Helman: Same here. And I think what we're learning with players like J.J. McCarthy, and I think this was even true of Anthony Richardson, is teams tell themselves that they're going to buy in on this development type of quarterback, and they know that it's going to take two years of work before he's like a serious NFL starter. and then they never commit themselves to it because it's hard to do that because obviously you don't want to sit there with whatever middling quarter Gardner Minshew or you know whatever you're throwing out there in place of a guy like this you want to just you want this guy to be able to go be good it's very rare that teams actually commit to this development plan when they know the quarterback needs it like really the only times we've seen it are like I guess if you want to consider Jalen Hurts being this you know with when the Eagles drafted him in the second round or like Jordan Love and the Packers.

22:10Dave Helman: Like they were a team that they absolutely committed. They were like, we know that mechanically and some of the decision making, this is going to take a couple of years for him. And they drafted him behind a quarterback that they knew was still going to be good and be around for a couple of years. But teams, when they make these picks, they're like Gardner Minshew can hold it down for a little bit or X guy off of the bargain bin can hold it down for a little bit. And it's like, unless you're doing it with one of these guys who you know is a good starter, it's just, it's hard to actually keep yourself on these development plans that you want.

22:38I think too is a suit,

22:41Derrik Klassen: like let's just live in a world for a second where Kyler isn't good for whatever reason you, you could go to JJ later, but if Kyler's ready to go and gives you a chance to be competitive in the division and you're starting a guy that needs that much development, it just, I just don't think it makes sense other than that. To some degree, I find it admirable that Kevin O 'Connell wanted to give JJ McCarthy some sort of chance.

23:06Dave Helman: That's actually a great point. Like Kyler starting and then crashing and burning and going to J.J. McCarthy for like, let's see if he's he's got something and he can save the team. That is a more palatable. Can he write the ship? Then starting J.J. McCarthy, he's as bad as he was last year. And then you're hoping that Kyler Murray can save the team like down the stretch. Like that just feels like a weirder way to try to do that.

23:28Derrik Klassen: watching JJ struggle the way he did last year while a pro bowler is on the bench is also not going to play well with a frustrated fan base, by the way. Yeah, 100%. Okay, I knew you wanted to talk about the quarterback battle. I have a Vikings note. I wanted to talk about the Vikings in a way that has nothing to do with the quarterback battle. Can we get into some nerdy Viking shit for a second? Let's do it. Our guy Alec Lewis, who our wonderful Vikings beat writer who is at Vikings camp. He wrote a great story today. I would encourage you to go find it on the athletic if you care about the Vikings or just nerdy run game shit.

24:07Derrik Klassen: But he wrote a really, really enlightening story about what the Vikings are hoping to overhaul with their running game. And I'll be honest, it flew under my radar this year because there's so much oxygen going toward the quarterback debate in Minnesota. But Kevin O 'Connell hired Frank Smith, who was Mike McDaniel's offensive coordinator in Miami to overhaul this running game. And it gets buried by all the drama going on with Minnesota's quarterbacks. But the Vikings have had a pretty mid running game for most of KOC's tenure. And the story is basically about what Frank Smith and several other of their assistant coaches are doing to bring some of that stuff to Minnesota.

24:51Derrik Klassen: and the minute I realized that the Vikings were trying to implement anything that Mike McDaniel likes to do into their running game I got pretty excited and it it's a it's a wrinkle in the Vikings offense that I hadn't been thinking about that I'm thinking about a lot right right now and this is

25:08Dave Helman: I mean I think I said two years ago on the show that Kevin O 'Connell like the run game needs to kind of have a come to Jesus moment and I think I do think that last year they were better than they had been for the past couple of years before that. But I do think for a couple of reasons, there's a chance they're better. One, like you said, hiring Frank Smith feels like maybe just a couple of new ideas could help and just like reshaping what the run game can be. And then I do think the personnel for them running the ball should be better in terms of the running backs. I mean, it's going to be who they had last year in Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason.

25:38Dave Helman: But Jawan Jennings, I think gives you a much more credible wide receiver three blocker or a big body in terms of that sense. And then I do think the offensive line like should be healthier. Like Christian Darisaw was just not his best last year. You hope that left guard Donovan Jackson takes a step in his second season. Hopefully, Will Fries and Brian O 'Neill can stay healthy on that side of the ball. And I know that they lose Ryan Kelly. He retired. But Blake Brandel has played fine football for them in the past. And so if he ends up just being their worst guy and he's just like a totally acceptable fifth guy in the middle of what could be an otherwise like above average offensive line, I do think that this run game can actually get somewhere.

26:14Dave Helman: And also, like, if the quarterback gives you a more credible threat to push the ball down the field the run game should also be better so i do think that there's a chance that like this whole ecosystem

26:22Derrik Klassen: makes more sense as long as we're getting excited about what rookies are doing in training camp practices can i also point out to you max bredesen their fifth round pick he's listed by a lot of people as a tight end but that dude's gonna play fullback man and i know how exciting that is for

26:39Dave Helman: you well and I because I said on the other show like some of these offenses that have a fullback and an extra receiver and obviously Justin Jefferson clears that bar are offenses that like I'm willing to bet on I think going into this season and obviously beforehand they'd had CJ Hamm who was a pretty solid fullback and so I think the only reason I left them off that list when I mentioned it the other day was that we just don't know how good Bredesen is going to be or what he's going to be but if he's even an above average blocker and can actually like give them some kick-ass in the run game. That goes to what you're saying with Frank Smith.

27:09Dave Helman: Like, maybe we can do some weird shit. Like, Smith is coming from an offense that just had Alex Engold, and they were doing a bunch of weird stuff with what they were doing in Miami. And so there's a chance that they can bring in some cool, like, motion with the fullback, some cool lead stuff, and that sort of deal.

27:22Derrik Klassen: I shouldn't get too excited about a rookie fullback, but he's coming out of Michigan, which is, like, one of the most smash-mouth old-school offenses of the last five or so years. I got pretty amped reading this article like I said I would encourage you to go check it out it's a good read and it made me a lot more excited about the Vikings offense in ways that maybe we're not thinking about.

27:45Dave Helman: Listen you can get excited about a fullback again we're back to 2005 we're back.

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32:20Derrik Klassen: all right derek i'm just gonna keep going down a lot a lot of the storylines that jump out to me the most are rookie related at this time of year for obvious reasons right like you can't see that much about how schemes are working a lot of guys are on snap counts at this time of year the one thing you can watch is like who's rotating in who's getting promoted up the depth chart who's having a chance to earn more opportunities and one guy that's earning opportunities on a team that I feel like I haven't talked as much about is Bud Clark in Seattle and I think there's a really interest there's a really obvious reason for that Nickman Worry's not practicing right now but I'm loving the idea that Bud Clark not happy that Nickman Worry is injured mind you but getting an opportunity where there otherwise might not have been one.

33:11Derrik Klassen: Because you look at Seattle and that's the thing where you're like, OK, this is an amazing team. But how much opportunity is there for new guys to come in when they return so much of what made that defense great? Well, this is a huge opportunity for Bud Clark. And it seems like he's making the most of it through the first week or so at training camp.

33:29Dave Helman: And this is huge for them because I kind of thought, like, if there's any issue that this team maybe was going to have, it was going to be depth. Like, obviously, they lose starters and safety Kobe Bryant. Rick Wollin is out of the building. Like, depth, I think, in the secondary was potentially going to be an issue for them. And so if Bud Clark can actually step up, I think that that's huge for them. And I think this is also, you know, obviously, this says something about Bud Clark, that he's able to step in and immediately do this in a defense that is as complex as it is. But I think it also speaks to, like, what Mike McDonald, like, how well he can consistently teaches the players on his team.

34:03Dave Helman: Like the fact that even last year, like guys like Drake Thomas and Ty O 'Cotter coming out of the woodwork as guys who were depth players, late round picks, undrafted guys, and were able to, by the end of the year, play like pretty kick ass football. I think that just speaks to how well, I mean, Josh Jobe, if you want to throw him in there as well under Mike McDonald, like the fact that he just teaches his system so well. I think that that says it means a lot for young players because I think sometimes too like when when younger players like especially even in college some of their tape some of why they don't look that good might just be like it's just not getting taught to them all that well at the college level but then you get it taught to them well at the NFL level and some of their athletic traits

34:41Derrik Klassen: can start to shine I think it speaks to your point that the Seahawks actually have had a fair amount of turnover this year. Like Kobe Bryant is in Chicago now. Requel is in Philadelphia. But I feel so strongly about Mike McDonald and the job that those guys did with their opportunities last year. Like Josh Jobe was awesome in the playoffs last year. Tai Okada stepped up time and time again. And so even though several big names from that unit are gone, I just kind of implicitly trust that it's going to be okay.

35:14Dave Helman: Yeah, I'm already at the point with them where it's like Kyle Shanahan, the offensive line, it's like they'll be if they've got to put in some new guys who are like late round picks and mid round picks and rookies, like they'll probably figure it out and be good back there.

35:26Derrik Klassen: The thing that's interesting to me, I gleaned one thing from the Hard Knocks debut, which if you didn't watch it, you really didn't miss much, in my opinion. But Mike McDonald said one thing that I loved in one of his speeches to the team, which is he basically said at the start of camp, Y 'all are going to decide what we do. Like you are going to decide the defense I run, how I deploy things, what I want to do. And that sounds really elementary, but I loved it because it's so easy to just try to plug guys into what they did last year. And it would be easy for me to say, oh, Bud Clark's getting a shot at the Nick Imanwari role while he's out injured.

36:07Derrik Klassen: But that's what's happening. Like, it sounds like he's getting a lot of looks in dime coverage and getting a chance to do that in addition to dropping back at safety like Mike McDonald's gonna build it out of what this group of guys does well like I said that's that's really basic but it's still really cool to hear where he's like I will tailor this year's defense to what y 'all do best instead of giving a

36:29Dave Helman: shit what we did last year I mean that's just a sign of a good coach on any side of the ball right where it's like we I'm I'm gonna retrofit it to what we do well and he's gonna tinker and he's gonna fight it's I mean that's why Sean McVay is consistently one of the best and why some of these other coaches who are like, no, we run what we run. They kind of fluctuate with just like how good their players are. And so the fact that Seattle, I think pretty objectively on the defensive side of the ball is taking a step back in terms of their talent. I trust Mike McDonald pretty well for there not to be that much of a drop off on there.

36:59Derrik Klassen: Bud Clark had 15 picks and 21 PBUs across his final four years in college. Like if he can pick this up at any degree with any degree of efficiency he's gonna have a role in this thing but before it's all said and done so

37:15Dave Helman: i was i was excited to hear that what else you got your eye on i mean one i kind of have my eye on if we can uh talk about some wide receivers for a little bit i'm curious to see how the wide receiver room shakes out for philly obviously we've it seems like almost every show we're mentioning now devonta smith i think his role in the offense is pretty unquestioned but i do think how things shake out between makai lemon uh don'tavian wicks hollywood brown over there it seems like wicks and this is partly because lemon has uh very recently started to miss some time with a hamstring injury um it seems like wicks is kind of performing pretty well and he's he's been a player that like whether you're a fantasy guy or whether you're a film watcher like it seems like everyone kind of agrees his flashes are so sick like just as a route runner some of what he can do with the ball in his hands like he's a really good athlete it's just a matter of like can this stuff come together and I think that there's a chance that like sometimes that does just take three four five years for a guy and for wicks to get I think more opportunity especially like if lemon's going to be hurt like it's not really like a crowded room for him to have to fight for for targets and stuff like that other than Devonta Smith obviously and so the fact that he's going to get as much opportunity as he is in an offense that he's familiar with like I think that actually gives him a little bit of a leg up over some of the other receivers in this room I think I'm curious to see how much of a bump that actually gives him it's funny to think of Philly as being a place

38:42Derrik Klassen: with this glut of options because like you just listed all the receivers they drafted Eli Stowers highly at tight end behind Dallas Goddard like there are so many options whereas for the last five years you're just funneling targets to two receivers like of course Jahan Dotson's gonna get his token touchdown every now and then but very few teams prioritize like two receivers over everybody else quite like Philly so it's it's a fun departure to be like oh my god there's like eight guys that could have a really nice season in this offense yeah it's almost like in bringing

39:17Dave Helman: in Sean Mannion they also like I don't know if it was intentional but like brought over the idea that like yeah four and five receivers like we'll figure out a way to spread it around a little bit

39:26Derrik Klassen: I get so nervous about rookie training camp injuries and I think it's been like two days for Makai Lemon I'm not pressing the panic button yet but there's no worse time to not be available

39:37Dave Helman: for practice I mean especially too because like it's I mean you just never know with rookies and stuff like this but it didn't sound like he was particularly overwhelming in terms of like killing it at camp either and so to kind of be in a spot where you're fighting for that wider two wide receiver two spot with a guy like Dontavian Wicks and then you go down with an injury I mean how many times have we seen some of these rookie wide receivers where they do get injured in OTAs and early in camp and they're like it just kind of never comes together for them because like once you once you get behind the eight ball in the NFL it's it's really really hard to get back to where

40:09Derrik Klassen: you want to be I do remember Odell Beckham had like no rookie training camp because of a soft tissue injury and everybody was worried about it. And he was incredible.

40:20Dave Helman: Like right at one of the best rookie receivers we've ever seen.

40:23Derrik Klassen: I mean, that's the, let's not compare the guy to Odell Beckham right out the gate though. Like, I don't think that's something you can expect to happen, but I'm, I'm monitoring the Mackay lemon situation closely. If you want to talk receivers, I have a dilemma for you. Cause if you want to talk about overwhelming, the two rookies in Cleveland sound like they're overwhelming everybody in Cleveland right now, Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston. My dilemma is how excited am I allowed to get about these two bad-ass rookie receivers playing on the team with the worst quarterback room in the NFL? Like I want to be excited so, so badly, but I don't want to feel like a chump in October when there's just nobody in this room that can consistently get them the ball.

41:11Dave Helman: It's not going to mean anything for this year, but don't help

41:15Derrik Klassen: this but this allows us hearing what's coming out of camp about these guys i it seems like i can't

41:21Dave Helman: hear enough about denzel boston which again for like i keep saying like x receivers back where all these teams are going to get an x receiver if like he i mean he's built for it in a way that like almost really nobody else in this class really was like he's the guy for that archetype i think um i think the more likely scenario is that what we're going to get from this year going into camp going into the season going through the season is that it's just going to build a bunch of excitement for what it's going to look like for whatever it might be in 2027 whether that's with arch manning dante moore whatever quarterback you want to put in there and that's like i think it's just going to have to be a situation where we're building the hype and

41:56Derrik Klassen: we're pushing it down the line that's really responsible of you and respectfully i'm not trying to hear it i don't know i'm you're now banking on like shader sanders taking like a

42:07Dave Helman: huge developmental leap or something like that whatever they gotta they gotta play 17 games like

42:12Derrik Klassen: Like the numbers will come somehow. Somebody can get them the football. Like I'm drafting these guys in fantasy. I don't give a shit. It's too fun. Hold on.

42:21Dave Helman: Alternate theory. Can we trade for Spencer Rattler? Can we do a little something? I mean, Todd Monkett's offense likes to push the ball. Spencer has the arm for it. I'm just saying.

42:32Derrik Klassen: All right, let's just go full tinfoil hat here. That would probably, that would be an improvement over the situation in Cleveland. Absolutely. they drafted tailing green and odds are they're angling for a quarterback in next year's draft so

42:48Dave Helman: unless you i guess if you rather would rather would not cost nothing he would i think he would

42:54Derrik Klassen: cost you at least like a mid-round pick for sure i guess you could do it with the idea that he would be a serviceable backup behind whoever you draft later and help you evaluate all these young guys but that just feels crazy considering what's on the roster already. Like they've drafted three quarterbacks in the last two years and Watson is eating up all that money for one more year, swinging a trade for a guy who's probably not your long-term starter. It gets me excited because I'm, I'm dying for a reason to believe in the Browns offense. But beyond that, I just think it's,

43:31Dave Helman: it's a step too far. It's, it's probably pie in the sky, but it's at least still more palatable to me than hoping that one of the quarterbacks currently on

43:39Derrik Klassen: the roster gives them something i i just i want to i want to be excited about the browns so bad and i'm i'm just gonna force it until until i can't anymore because honestly too i'm gonna live

43:53Dave Helman: in la la land here for a second let's say quinshawn judkins is healthy and let's say denzel boston casey concepcion aren't even necessarily like clear rookie of the year guys but are like b plus level rookies how quickly do we go like the Cleveland skill players are like one of the best units that

44:09Derrik Klassen: you would want in the NFL like I said like during the the doldrums of the offseason that if the Browns if this draft class was half as good as last year's draft class imagine the hype on Cleveland and I know it's it's 10 days of practice I get that but the early returns on Concepcion and Boston are so fun that it's not hard to imagine this being a really enviable place for a young quarterback to be, which sounds insane coming out of my mouth. But I don't think that's a stretch at all. That's where we've arrived. It feels weird that it's Cleveland, but that's where we've arrived. That's why I need this to pan out.

44:50Derrik Klassen: I don't want to feel stupid for being excited about this in 10 weeks. That's not fun.

44:55Dave Helman: It's not fun at all. The whole point, listen, The whole point of this show is that we're going to mostly get off some of the exciting stuff that we're talking about. So I'm going to live in La La Land for most of the next 30 minutes here.

45:05Derrik Klassen: OK, so if you're trying to pitch me on a Spencer Rattler trade, does that mean you saw the throw that he made in practice on Thursday morning?

45:14Dave Helman: I saw that throw. And I think it was I think Nick Underhill was saying like Spencer Rattler looks a little bit more juiced up than he had before. And so, again, I think that this is a player that is probably not great. like I don't think that he's going to be like some sort of franchise changing player for anyone but like I still legitimately believe that the gap between him and Tyler Shuck is not like that crazy and I think that there's a chance that he could still give some other team out there like again if I'm one of these teams that I will say because what you just mentioned with like Cleveland they're probably aiming for a quarterback this year I think trading for a Spencer Rattler in this offseason knowing that and quarterback classes always turn out weirder than we think but But knowing that this is supposed to be a very good quarterback class with potentially three, four guys, this is probably not the offseason to want to go make one of those like low bet trades.

46:04Dave Helman: But like, I still think that if you're going to do it, he's the guy that I would want to go for.

46:08Derrik Klassen: I was thinking about that because Spencer Adler makes a ton of sense. We've mentioned Tanner McKee before. And I guess you throw in Anthony Richardson just off of talent. but do you think there's a market for those guys barring, barring an unexpected injury where a team is trying to save its season? Is there a market for those guys until we know more about this college class? Like maybe, maybe halfway through the year, it'll look different, but shoot, at that point, the trade deadline's coming up. Like if, if there's six guys in college right now that teams feel pretty good about, I wonder if it lessens that sort of demand.

46:48Derrik Klassen: You know, like, Malik Willis got traded at this time of year a couple years ago, and it was a fantastic decision by the Packers. But is that market out there? I guess, I mean, Green Bay, that's a great point. If a team is trading for a guy to be a high-end backup, maybe so. But as far as trying to bet on a guy to be a starter of the future, I don't know if I see it.

47:12Dave Helman: It doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of a market for it. And then again, even trading for him to be like a backup, it's like, well, the Saints are probably in a position that unless the offer is good enough, like they would probably just rather keep him and be like, have a good competition for Tyler Shuck and also be able to stay afloat in the event that Tyler Shuck misses time. Because again, we do have to remember like Chuck was healthy last year, but this is a player that has been banged up pretty consistently. So there's probably not a market for it. It probably doesn't make sense for New Orleans to let him go, but I'm going to continue to wish cast him to a spot where he can play some games.

47:43Derrik Klassen: We don't have to spend a lot of time on it because I feel like we've brought it up a lot, but the saints are making me feel things, man, which I resent because the saints are such an obvious pitfall because of how the season ended and Tyler Shuck played well. And the NFC South is wide open. It's very easy to fall for them as the new playoff team, like the new division champion. And I don't want to fall for that. But every time I check in on them on social media, barry and brown's making the play of his life and jordan tyson looks like a rookie pro bowler and tyler shucks playing well and the offensive line is super talented like there's so much to like here and i'm i'm fighting like hell not to fall hook line and sinker or we've seen some preseason

48:30Dave Helman: games at least you and robert having a season where you're like i don't want to buy into my team but i it's really hard not to it's gonna be really funny i can't stand it but it's it's been

48:41Derrik Klassen: fun to watch like every time I check in on the Saints there's there's something worth being excited about all right I shoot I think I knocked out a couple of mine right there so I'm gonna

48:52Dave Helman: throw it over to you what else you got I have a whole lot more to go off of just because again I mean some of what you mentioned like it's I feel like with rookies and stuff and it's kind of hard to figure out how much of it means outside of just like how much playing time is a guy uh gonna get I did want to talk a little bit about not a rookie at all and this is really more news than anything We didn't really talk about Darnell Wright getting paid at all, which like. Oh, good shout. Kind of felt like a formality. But the fact that he got his money, he's now the second highest paid tackle in the NFL, which I know that right tackles are getting paid more often than, you know, they previously had.

49:28Dave Helman: But still, I think even if you said like eight years ago that anybody other than Lane Johnson as a right tackle would be one of the top three highest paid tackles in the league, I think that would have been kind of crazy. And so just props to him for being a player that I think when he came into the league, obviously was a phenomenal athlete and has incredible size. But I think a lot of people were like, might be a dancing bear who it takes a year for this to really come on. And I do think that his rookie year was kind of up and down, but he's really just become an absolutely dominant force at that position.

49:58Dave Helman: And truly one of the like five or six tackles that you can weaponize in the run game in a way that is pretty special. So to see him get his flowers and get his money, just like all the props in the world to him.

50:10Derrik Klassen: It speaks to how good Darnell Wright is that the Bears famously could have taken Jalen Carter. And Jalen Carter's a phenomenal player, but here in 2026, nobody's second-guessing that decision by the Bears. They're like, yeah, Jalen Carter's awesome, but we feel good about this decision, and I don't blame them at all for feeling that way.

50:30Dave Helman: And it's like, that's one of those things too. It's like Jalen Carter is definitely more of a household name, I think, just because of the position he plays and obviously playing at Georgia and stuff like that. But hitting on a tackle that is like all pro caliber is a way to like get people to be like, ah, yeah, it doesn't matter that we took that guy. This guy's going to keep our star quarterback upright and we'll be OK.

50:50Derrik Klassen: I know Ben Johnson didn't draft him, but he just embodies what I think Ben Johnson probably wants his team and his offense to be like it just works. And I did enjoy Ben Johnson confirming my priors this week because somebody asked him about potentially flipping Darnell right to left tackle the way that Tristan Wirfs and this year Panay Sewell have done. And he was like, oh, I don't really think that's necessary. Like right tackles too. And he's awesome at it. And that really feels like the world we've been living in for a few years where you got to be great on both ends. And I mean, there's something to be said for the blind side, but like there are amazing pass rushers coming off the right side as well.

51:35Derrik Klassen: Like, I just don't think the distinction matters as much as it used to.

51:38Dave Helman: I don't think it does. I think it's more good pass rushers are just moving to that side of the ball. And I also think that like, maybe this is me galaxy braiding it. But if there's any quarterback that I think can like see and feel and handle pressure from the blind side, it kind of is Caleb Williams just in the way that like he can just make a weird move in the pocket and he can sense it and they be on the times that he like ducked under guys or spun around blindside pressure this year like obviously if it's at the point where they're playing tackle three and he's getting just beat up all the time that's going to be an issue but that would be just the same of an issue if his right side was getting dented in all the time and and uh Darnell Wright was playing on the left side I will say though I do think that he could do it because he played left tackle early on in college and then only flipped to the other side I think by his final

52:23Derrik Klassen: year having said that too now that now that getting back under center is the new revolution in the NFL maybe that'll go back to mattering more yeah that's actually a good point no you're totally right it didn't matter for a long time because everybody was in the gun but as this starts to happen more and more maybe that'll flip again maybe I should put a pin in that that opinion of mine and see how this season bears out no i think that's a great point because so

52:50Dave Helman: much of the blind side thing is like yeah if you're going five step seven step under center play action all this stuff it's like you don't necessarily get to see all of what the pass rush is doing especially on like maybe if you're play faking to that side it's a little bit easier you know you can kind of flash your eyes but if you're not you're kind of just hoping your guys winning that rep by the time that you have to get there and so that's it's one of those small things that you don't think about, but I actually do think if the league is going to push more towards that, that's a really good thing to think about.

53:18Derrik Klassen: Another thing I wanted to talk about, it's nothing personal against him, but I just don't, I can't handle another year of Marshawn Lloyd disappointment and I can't get excited about it. I saw like he's in practice. He did a backflip at Packers practice on Thursday after scoring a touchdown, which is a big, big deal for a guy that's played in one career game over the first two years of his career. I want him to be healthy so bad. But as somebody who's been excited about him since he got drafted, I just I can't do it. I have to protect my heart.

53:52Dave Helman: I mean, he's just one of those. It's like, I feel like there are so often running backs in the league where it's like purely as a runner. He's got what you want, but then it's injuries or it's fumbles are a big thing with him. And he's not the most dynamic passing down back and so it's like all these other factors that would keep him off the field but i do think this is going to be a chance where he's he's clearly going to get i think more opportunities than he has in the past like josh jacobs is dealing with some of his off field stuff currently and then chris brooks is not fully healthy who is has been a decent second back for them uh at certain points and so this is probably as best an opportunity as lloyd is going to get to be able to be the guy there now that's what scares the shit out of me it's all it's all

54:35Derrik Klassen: out there in front of him. I want to be like, if not now, then never, right? If not now, then never. And I just, just please be healthy. I'm going to, I am going to sit on this until we can at least get through the preseason. Cause I looked it up. I think Marshawn Lloyd's only even played in like two possible preseason games. Like his injuries have been to the point where he really just hasn't had a career so far. And I, I hope this is the beginning of that changing, but I, I got to see to believe in this case. Like I can't, I can't just hop on the bandwagon one more time.

55:08Dave Helman: If we want to stay in Green Bay really quickly for one of my last ones, I've expressed a lot of concern about what this offensive line might look like. You know, Anthony Belton, I think did not look very good as a rookie last year, moving to guard. Jordan Morgan has played seemingly every position on this offensive line is now going to be their left tackle. They're having a center who has been fine in spot duty for them at both guard and at center at previous times. he's not going to be inserted as the full-time guy. It does seem like the younger players that there's a little bit of buzz that these guys are going to be able to handle themselves, like Jordan Morgan potentially settling in at left tackle finally.

55:45Dave Helman: And then it does seem like a full offseason of playing guard for Anthony Belton has been good for him, which totally fair that last year, like he really did not practice at guard even during the season until he had to start playing it. And so him actually getting a year to be like, what does interior play really feel like that could help so I think I still want to see it before I fully believe it but the fact that the news coming out of there is not like holy shit I don't know if this is going to work I do

56:13Derrik Klassen: think that that is at least mildly encouraging are you closely monitoring the Packers whole line to see just how into Green Bay you can get this year that's totally defensible if so I'd be pretty much

56:25Dave Helman: because every other factor of this offense like I'm like obviously I think the quarterback is really good I think Matt LaFleur is a really good play caller Christian Watson was as good as he's ever been down the stretch last year which is crazy given he did it coming off of an injury um I still think Jordan Reed is a good slot if Tucker Craft is even 85 percent of himself I think that is still an awesome player and I really think that like Matthew Golden can maybe not take the step to be like a 1200 yard receiver next year be anything crazy but like I think that he can replace Romeo Dobbs like I think there's a better chance of that happening than it seems

57:00Derrik Klassen: closely monitoring all the nfc north camps begging for a sign like begging for something to somebody let me believe yeah i'm looking for a reason to believe in all four teams before we continue let's take our second break this episode is brought to you by bill the intelligent finance platform that helps businesses and accounting firms scale with proven results if you're running a business or managing finance you know how easy it is to get drowned in software hype. Tools that promise the world, believe you stuck doing manual grunt work. Stop the guesswork and start scaling with the proven choice.

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58:11Derrik Klassen: That's bill.com slash proven. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details. As I've crept closer to 40, I've tried to stay pretty active, working out five to six times a week, eating as well as I can most days. But like a lot of people, my energy and recovery just aren't quite what it used to be. The problem for most people trying to optimize their health and performance is that they're flying blind. Maybe you start taking supplements, clean up your diet, change your workouts. But how do you know if any of it is actually working? Every fan can tell you their quarterback's completion percentage, but almost nobody knows their own body's stats, cholesterol, testosterone, inflammation, or vitamin D levels.

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1:00:31Derrik Klassen: Question for any pet owners. Of course, we all love our pets, but do you ever think about just how much joy and energy your pet brings to your household? It's something that's been on my mind a lot recently because I spent a healthy chunk of the summer out of town away from our dog Mozzie. And getting back to him really made me think about just how much he does for my quality of life, my mental health, and how I would do anything to keep his derpy little face bopping around next to me for as long as possible. I bring it up because today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program.

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1:02:21Derrik Klassen: The ASPCA is not an insurer and it's not engaged in the business of insurance.

1:02:30All right.

1:02:31Derrik Klassen: I got one last one. It is, it is another rookie, but it's a less flashy position. And I think it's interesting because a lot of people saw him as a more raw guy who might need some seasoning. But the word coming out of Steelers camp is that Maxie and Achor has been absolutely whipping ass. He's still listed as the second team right tackle. Dylan Cook is the first team guy as of right now. But playing well enough to make people wonder about that, at least, which is incredibly encouraging.

1:03:03Dave Helman: I'm excited about him, man. I hope it works out sooner than later. And like, he's just a player where it was kind of difficult for me to figure out like where some of the inconsistencies came from, because there were games where it just felt like he was dominant and like the feet looked good and he was able to get in front of guys and he bends well at the hip. And then it just seemed like there were times where I don't know if it was him just like not scouting opponents like pass rush moves well or not anticipating things well. Like I think some of it was a little bit more mental with him sometimes.

1:03:33Dave Helman: But if they can ramp him up to speed and that the offense is being taught to him really well, I think that like athletically, there's zero doubt in my mind that he's able to do what he needs to do. and also I think this is an offensive line where sometimes these teams draft these first round tackles and they're like we need him to be good now for the offensive line to be good I think he can be their worst offensive line starter and it's still like the ninth best offensive line in the league and so I do think that that actually relieves a little bit of the pressure off of him

1:04:02Derrik Klassen: it is worth saying Ian Atchard left Steelers practice on Thursday with some sort of injury but my read on it right now is that it's not incredibly serious. We'll wait and see, but he walked off of practice under his own power, so that's always an encouraging sign. It is funny because the Steelers have thrown so many resources at their offensive line, and to some degree it hasn't worked. Like Broderick Jones is a backup right now coming off of injury. That pick hasn't been what you wanted it to be. Troy Fatanu, not a bad player at all, but like still a guy that's growing into the role. And so to some degree, you're like, well, this hasn't this really hasn't worked relative to the amount of resources we've thrown at it.

1:04:48Derrik Klassen: But on the flip side, you draft the inachor. He seems to be playing well. Dylan Cook did a great job with his opportunities last year. And so in totality, you look at it and it's like, OK, there's like four guys that I feel pretty good about here, which is that's a great place to be. even if it didn't go quite according to plan.

1:05:08Dave Helman: And they drafted Jennings Dunker, who I think can be like solid. I don't know if he's going to win a starting job this year, but it's at least like starting depth in the event that somebody is probably going to go down and you're going to have to play it. Brock Hoffman is also on this team. He's played a lot of center and guard over his time in the NFL. So like they have depth here. I also think too that there's a chance that this offensive line looks better or is at least more appreciated if the offense just looks more normal. Like last year, it was all this like 13 personnel and they were like only throwing certain areas of the field.

1:05:37Dave Helman: And like, that's some of that is probably going to partly continue to be true because it's Aaron Rodgers and he's going to run the offense the way that he wants. But I do think that then being able to actually put more receivers on the field, like with a Michael Pittman, maybe Roman Wilson takes a step. Jeremy Bernard is there now. Like, I do think the offense looking normal might actually allow the offensive line to shine a little bit more.

1:05:58Derrik Klassen: All right. I got one more and it's beyond obvious, Derek. But honestly, I should have said it on the DNA Changers episode because I told you when we did that show that I was going with super obvious names and it's not OK that I left him off. So I'll just use this place to say Dexter Lawrence appears to be Dexter Lawrence in Cincinnati. I don't know how surprising that is, but it's it's certainly worth saying that it looks like he's kicking ass all over the place, which is very encouraging. if you're somebody that wants to believe in the Bengals defense.

1:06:32Dave Helman: I mean, at the very least, when you give up the 10th overall pick for him, you want to hear that it's going well. And, you know, whether or not, again, that means anything in the regular season, who knows. But I do think that this is not that surprising. I think that there was some element of, you know, he had had some of like the elbow issues the past couple of years and didn't necessarily play some of his best ball in some of those stretches. But I also think that this is clearly a chance where a player who has been so good for so long on a team that just simply did not accomplish shit going to a team that obviously has like incredible potential they have a top like eight quarterback they have the best receiver in the NFL they have another really good receiver in T Higgins who could be the number one for like half the league they have an offense that can go and score 30 and he gets to be the centerpiece of a defense that they're not gonna be great but if they can be if like if the defense is as good as they are supposed to be because Dexter Lawrence is who he is and they signed a couple of guys like Like that is a team that can make a run deep in the playoffs.

1:07:31Dave Helman: That is incredibly like motivating.

1:07:33Derrik Klassen: He's also such a gravitational player. And maybe that's why I'm drawn to interior defensive linemen to begin with. Because if he is, if he's the guy we know from New York, he has so many different impacts from just his own ability. The effect that he has on the rest of the line, making life easier on Boye Mafé. I've seen Cassius Howell splash a few times on in training camp clips from Cincinnati. He makes everybody else's life easier on the front. He makes things cleaner for the linebackers. And we've talked about what a big year it is for them. If he's that dude, he really is like he's a DNA changer just because he can have a buoying effect on the other 10 guys in a very demonstrable way.

1:08:20Derrik Klassen: Like it's not hard to figure out what he can do for everybody else.

1:08:23Dave Helman: and actually lastly to that point I'll add on the I think the like he has such an effect on the players around him and what you know the players especially behind him I think might look like I think that there's a chance that Jonathan Allen still has a little bit of kick-ass to him like I think last year the Viking scheme is just so specific and I think sometimes weird and was not always playing next to a nose that could just like eat as much space as a guy I think like Dexter Lawrence can I think if those two like I you know Dexter Lawrence I'm pretty confident is going to be really good if Jonathan Allen can play even like 90 % of what a player of his caliber can play at I think that that makes life on the linebackers so much easier and I still think Demetrius and I think needs to take some individual steps before I really start to believe that but I do actually think that if the picture is clear for Barrett Carter he was a player who showed like something last year and that I think that he could actually at least become especially in the run game like a pretty useful piece for them if the picture's a little clear brian cook was talking shit to jamar chase after bingles practice the other day like love it the theme for this show is just me trying

1:09:29Derrik Klassen: to rein in my boundless enthusiasm for like 15 different teams we'll see how all of it ages but i i think we'll we'll check in on on practice updates and camp stuff again before august is over if is that that's everybody you got hunter i think so i think i'm kind of tapped out right now

1:09:47Dave Helman: on the on the I'm just ready for the games to start. I mean, as we're recording this, we are four hours away from a beautiful Panthers Cardinals

1:09:55Derrik Klassen: game, which don't get I am excited about it. I'm just pissed that once the Hall of Fame game is over, then we wait another week for like the full weekend of preseason games. Like the gap is weird.

1:10:05Dave Helman: I get why the schedule works the way that it does. But the gap is weird.

1:10:10Derrik Klassen: Nevertheless, we will soldier through. We got plenty more content coming your way. Robert's training camp tour carries on. He is in Philly on Friday. He's going up to Buffalo shortly after that. He'll be in Pittsburgh checking in on Maxie and not sure and everybody else. Plenty more content coming your way. Also, if you haven't, make sure you check out tickets for our live show, September 1st here in Chicago. We got so much stuff coming your way before the season even kicks off. I cannot wait to get even closer, get some preseason games to talk about until then for Derek. I'm Dave. We appreciate it.

1:10:45Derrik Klassen: We'll talk to you all next time. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.