The Week 2 Hangover: Joe Burrow's injury, Falcons run over Vikings, and more sad voicemails

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1:27Derrik Klassen: Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I am Dave Hellman, and today we have the week to hangover. Coming out of a busy Sunday, there's always going to be a few storylines we just didn't have time to get to in the recap. A couple big games we wanted to hit. The Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons played Sunday night. Didn't spend a lot of time on the recap show, but we wanted to dive deep on J.J. McCarthy's struggles. But more importantly, a very impressive performance from the Atlanta Falcons. Also wanted to talk about the L.A. Rams getting a big win over Cam Ward and the Tennessee Titans in the early window.

2:01Derrik Klassen: Those two games, plus a lot of injury news on the docket this week. Joe Burrow, J.J. McCarthy, Jaden Daniels all dealing with various things as we start off week three. Plus, we will once again take your voicemails at the end of the show. Really fun episode today. Let's get it going.

2:23Derrik Klassen: All right, Derek, typically on these shows, we want to dive right into some of the games that we missed from Sunday. Take a closer look at some of the action that got overlooked in the recap show. I'm going to call an audible in week two. We're going to move upon further review into the top of the show because it's a week with a lot of pertinent news coming right out of Sunday. You and I talked on the recap show about Joe Burrow's injury. It was very speculative. We did our best to sort of dance around it without firm timelines. But here, as we record this on Monday afternoon, we know now Joe Burrow expected to have surgery on his turf toe injury.

3:03Derrik Klassen: It sounds like a three month timeline, which basically means the Cincinnati Bengals are trying to survive here until December, probably with Jake Browning. We joked about it, that a two Oh start is a great thing to have in your back pocket. If you got to lean on your backup quarterback, but this is very real. This is the world. The Bengals are going to be living in for the next few months, which is, it's very disappointing considering even if it wasn't always great, they, they got out of their own way enough to be two and Oh. And of course, their reward is they're not going to have Joe Burrow potentially until the very end of the regular season.

3:39Dave Helman: I mean, yeah, we joked about it like this is the first time they've actually started off the season well. And then it comes crashing down where you're not going to have Joe Burrow for the rest of the season where they've been used to starting off very slow. And then Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and T Higgins eventually dig them out of that out of that trench that they put themselves in. So I think it's definitely a different situation now. I think the backup quarterback situation is funny in that Jake Browning is probably like if I had to count on one hand, one of the quarterbacks that I would like backup quarterbacks that I would want to be like handle a stretch like this.

4:08Dave Helman: I think he's played well for the Bengals in the past. I think he, despite throwing a bunch of interceptions hot off the off the bench last week, I still think made enough plays in that game to give them a real chance and was consistently willing to give the ball to the guys that you need to get the ball to in this offense. at the same time even if he's a very good backup the gap between very good backup and the fourth best quarterback in the league is it's different than having like a middling quarterback who you're replacing with a very good backup like the gap is just so high and they've really counted on Joe Burrow to play a very certain style of football as long as he's been in there um so like there's part of me that wants to say that they can manage offensively and they probably can but also the last time Jake Browning did this like the defense was not a catastrophe the way that I think it has been early in the season it might continue to be so that to me is really going to be the bigger obstacle is like not can Jake Browning right the ship but like he needs to put up like 30 a game

5:04Derrik Klassen: for this to work probably yeah to be honest it's it's kind of easy to lay out the copium angle for Jake Browning as the Bengals starting quarterback I mean look Cincinnati had seven points when Joe Burrow got hurt on Sunday. They finished the game with 31. I mean, even with the interceptions, Jake Browning led this team on scoring drives. We talked about it on the recap show. Like he put Jamar chase and T Higgins in position to make the plays that they're capable of making. It's not crazy to think that against most opponents, Jake Browning can score you some points and, and put you in contention to win some games.

5:41Derrik Klassen: The problem is in this world, you're like, okay, our ceiling is a little bit lower. We got to be on the screws. We're going to let Jake do what he can do. And we'll make up for it with good defense and good special teams and like all those cliches. And that just doesn't sound like the Cincinnati Bengals in 2025. To me, the picture of a successful Bengals team is an offense that's so explosive and so efficient that their problems everywhere else on the team don't matter as much. And it's hard to imagine that being the case. Like you said, when you level down from a top tier quarterback to even even if he's an above average backup that you're right, that gap is it's astronomical as we've seen.

6:23Derrik Klassen: I mean, Dak Prescott's injury comes to mind where Cooper Rush stepped in for at times over the last few years and you can win games. You can go three and one with a good backup quarterback, but it is not the same. And the margin for error is that much smaller.

6:39Dave Helman: yeah and like for a team that I mean the Bengals were already a team that you know I ultimately picked them to make the playoffs when we did our final predictions when it came down to it and stuff like that but this was a team that like to me was not a playoff lock even with Joe Burrow and so there's the argument that like if Jake Browning can just get them to the wild card and you get Joe Burrow back at the end of the season like maybe that is enough but even for Jake Browning being a pretty decent backup and generally playing well for them that is still a very very thin line that he's going to be having to walk.

7:07Dave Helman: And so this is just a tough spot for the Bengals. Luckily, they have a cushion now again in a way that they've never had. But it's just troubling news, especially to like, I know some people are going to say kind of like we've both mentioned. OK, they ripped off 24 points once Jake Browning came in the game and offense didn't look great with Joe Burrow week one. It didn't look good with him early in this Jaguars game. But like Burrow's always done that in September. And then usually by Halloween, he's like the best quarterback in the league again. Like he's playing up at that level. So like, I think the fact that they're going to be able, they're, they're going to be missing that stretch of his plays is pretty tough.

7:40Derrik Klassen: Jake Browning's first game as starter this season will be at Minnesota this weekend, which Vikings could be dealing with their own quarterback issue. Let's get to that in a minute. We got plenty to say about the Minnesota Vikings, but at Denver, Detroit, at green Bay games against the Steelers on deck, a road trip to the Ravens, as well as a road trip to the bills like this is all before burrow's projected return if jake browning even keeps them within shouting distance of 500 it will be one of the most significant accomplishments by

8:14Dave Helman: a backup that i've ever seen i think those are all going to be a very volatile stretch of games and the reason being is like those are all good defenses right but you have the vikings you have the broncos you have the packers uh you have even the lions these are all defenses that are extremely comfortable throwing bodies at you as a pass rushing unit, especially teams like Denver. And I think we've seen a lot of that from the Packers early on in this season. So like you're going to get a lot of Jake Browning just being like, ah, I hope T Higgins can make me right here. And that's going to work sometimes.

8:44Dave Helman: But if you just get hit at the right angle, hit at the right time, that ball is going to pop up weird. So I just this is going to be one of those like they might score 35 in one of those games because they get a couple of lucky bounces. They might score 10 in some of those games because just, you know, one or two blitzes get home and it just completely wrecks them.

8:59Derrik Klassen: Again, if I'm looking for copium and, and I'm okay filling that role as an LSU grad, as somebody who picked the Bengals to do a lot this season, I picked Joe Burrow to win MVP, which is officially in the toilet after two games, which is just not a good feeling. But if this all plays out, like if, if the Bengals are still relevant in December. Joe Burrow would potentially return in time for a home game against Baltimore. Then you've got at Miami before back-to-back home games against Arizona and Cleveland to finish out the season. It would be asking so much for Joe to return from this injury, hit the field, and immediately be good enough to make that kind of difference.

9:43Derrik Klassen: But that is a pretty manageable final month of the season if somehow the Bengals still matter by the time we get there yeah save for the

9:52Dave Helman: Baltimore game like even like 85 Joe Burr I'm picking the Bengals and probably all of those games barring like I don't know just some crazy back half of the season stretch from the Cardinals that we've really never seen from them the past five six years so yeah if he can get back at that time and like they need to go three and one in that stretch that they might be able to get that done.

10:11Derrik Klassen: Just a reminder, we, we spend an early reminder at that, but we spend so much time and energy debating all of this stuff and projecting the scenarios and it's a violent sport. It is a given that something, a major storyline is going to get snuffed out pretty quickly in the season. And once again, it's Joe Burrow, who just an unfortunate amount of injury luck in Cincinnati since he got drafted there. I, I know people are going to dogpile on the Bengals and the efforts that they've made to put an offensive line around him. And obviously it could be a lot better, but I don't know, man. First round pick at right tackle last year, they drafted a guard pretty highly this year.

10:55Derrik Klassen: I just chalked this up to football being a brutal sport more so than really picking on the Bengals. I mean, this is the type of stuff that happens. Joe Burrow is a guy that likes to extend plays when he can. This is the type of shit that happens. It's just an unfortunate reality of the sport we all love.

11:12Dave Helman: Yeah, I think at this point, I'm like, it to me is not really an investment issue with the offensive line. Like, it's still they're they're not the peak Lions or the or anything like that. They're not the Eagles. But like, I think they have a much more respectable offensive line than they have at certain points in Joe Burrow's career. And so this to me was not like they're just leaving him out there to die. It's like it's kind of like you mentioned, Joe is he's going to extend plays. It's what he does. it's part of why he is one of the best quarterbacks in the league but he's also just been a guy that like he is consistently banged up and so um it's kind of been a theme for him unfortunately and so i think even with like high quality lines that's always kind of potentially a risk for him and so um sucks that it's happened this early in the season he's going to miss most of the season whereas a lot of times it feels like it's been later in the season or during the off season where he can recover so it's a little bit of a different track here but um we'll see how they can manage it.

12:00Derrik Klassen: Not writing them off until I have a reason to. There's still a lot of talent on that offense. We will see what Jake Browning can do. He acquitted himself well in 2023, four and three record as the starter. So not a, not necessarily a season ender for Cincinnati, but a huge, huge disappointment for an offense that we were all so excited to watch with Joe. That was unfortunately not the only injury news that we heard on Monday as Jaden Daniels is apparently dealing with a knee injury that he suffered in that Thursday night loss to Green Bay. I don't know this for sure, but I can't help but think about the scramble play he had where he took a helmet off of his knee while he was trying to maneuver out of the pocket toward the sideline.

12:44Derrik Klassen: I don't know if that's the play that did it. It looked like it hurt like hell, though, and so it sounds like it'll be a waiting game. The word is that it's not a serious injury. So if he were to miss Sunday, it would potentially just be a one week injury. But I guess we'll at least be on Marcus Mariota watch for the next few days.

13:02Dave Helman: Yeah, which like I yeah, I don't remember if it was exactly that play, but I remember they were like just in or outside of the red zone and Jaden Daniels popped up kind of limping. I was like, oh, that's really not good for them. Thankfully, we've already seen Marcus Mariota play really well in this offense. So that helps a little bit again, almost like, you know, especially the fact that this should only be one week against that Raiders team is not that defense is not very good. So they should be able to manage it, but yeah, we'll see when we get there.

13:27Derrik Klassen: And then the last one, it pertains to the first game we want to talk about on this hangover show, but JJ McCarthy fresh off of a very disappointing outing in his home opener on Sunday night against Atlanta. It's wild because you heard the, the report that he had an ankle injury and we're all, you would wait and see the timeline on that. And very quickly after that, like we're not even playing the injury report game here where it's, let's see what it looks like Wednesday. And then maybe by Friday, it'll be better. No, all already on, as of Monday afternoon, it sounds like JJ McCarthy could miss two to four weeks with this ankle sprain, which opens the door for Carson Wentz.

14:08Derrik Klassen: Maybe Carson Wentz is the latest guy to resuscitate his image in a Kevin O 'Connell offense as it sounds like, I don't want to say a month yet but at the very least it doesn't sound like j.j mccarthy is going to be available on sunday so we've got a carson wince jake browning potential matchup for week three when the vikings play the cincinnati bingles that is gnarly i mean you joke about the you know can

14:33Dave Helman: kevin o 'connell fix him but like i think sam darnold is a more talented thrower obviously but like on a very base level the whole deal with sam darnold is like kind of a car crash dummy in the pocket who has a talented arm and he's a good athlete all of that does apply to Carson Wentz granted it's been like five years since I think he's played anything close to decent football whereas I think at least you saw more recent flashes for Sam Darnold before he got in with the Vikings but hopefully even though I think McCarthy has been really really up and down hopefully he comes back sooner just so that they can get him more reps because again this is a very serious team they want to be competitive by December the quicker they can get McCarthy up to speed and not have him sitting out more time is absolutely huge for them.

15:13Derrik Klassen: I mean, he's he's got to play, man. That's the whole thing. I mean, he didn't have a rookie season. He's got to get reps. And yeah.

15:21Dave Helman: And like how many times have we done it with quarterbacks like this, right, where we've said that, where it's like, man, Trey Lance, he just needs to get these reps. And then he's banged up all the time and he never gets them. Or Anthony Richardson. We're like, man, this is a quarterback that really needs reps. And then he gets banged up all the time and he never gets them. Obviously, it's super early for J.J. McCarthy, but it's already troubling that he missed his rookie season and is already going to miss potentially a month of his first starting season. Again, not getting the reps that he needs for a guy.

15:46Dave Helman: I think we all agree is, you know, he's the youngest started quarterback in the league. He needs to, he needs to go out there and throw it.

15:50Derrik Klassen: I don't really expect wins to light the world on fire. Although I, I mean, I buy this though. Like we can't, we can't talk about Minnesota being a Superbowl contender, even if their quarterback has never played and then just act like Carson Wentz can't keep the the car on the road you know like I think Carson Wentz can at least play at a baseline level that makes the Vikings competitive but what I don't really want is for Carson Wentz to play well enough that it creates a situation where the Vikings are like I don't know do we go back to JJ like we're playing 500 football right now. Wentz just threw two touchdowns and no picks in our most recent game.

16:32Derrik Klassen: Like, I hope I hope this doesn't lead to a situation where they have a decision to make because they already moved on from Sam Darnold. Like, if that's what they wanted, they could have just kept Sam Darnold. And now J.J. McCarthy needs reps or you're not digging out of this hole that he is in early on in his career.

16:48Dave Helman: I would also be scared of that because they had during the offseason of like, are they going to sign Aaron Rodgers? Like, it already seems like they've been dancing with some of that stuff. So hopefully they don't have to.

16:56Derrik Klassen: Hey, it all sounds fun. Starting the young kid sounds fun when you think it's going to go great. But when you see what it can look like, and we're about to get into that, I get if you can be tempted to just say, give me steady and mediocre rather than trying to put all of this together right now, especially when you have a roster that gives you playoff aspirations. So I'm getting very ahead of myself. Carson Wentz might have completely lost it. And maybe this isn't a conversation worth having. But I do think that highly of Kevin O 'Connell and the talent on the Vikings offense that I expect them to be.

17:32Derrik Klassen: I'll say fine. I think I expect them to be fine if Carson Wentz has to play a few games.

17:38Dave Helman: Yeah, I mean, Kevin O 'Connell's done it with Josh Dobbs. I think he can manage Carson Wentz for a little bit. Hey, guys, before we move on, fun little fact from our friend Bill Barnwell.

17:47Derrik Klassen: Now, Carson Wentz, assuming he does get this start, is going to be the first quarterback in NFL history to start a game in six straight seasons for six different teams. How about that? Eagles, Colts, Commanders, Rams, Chiefs, Vikings. From 2020 through 2025. I think the Rams one is the one I blacked out.

18:06Dave Helman: That one I didn't remember.

18:09Derrik Klassen: That does not help my case for thinking they might be OK. like jumping from that many teams in that many seasons does not all of all of the confidence I was just building up for the Vikings just fell just went out the window yeah I'm a little bit

18:23Dave Helman: more scared of it now I knew there was going to be one I was forgetting the Rams one is the one the Chiefs one I remember because obviously it was like at the very end of the season you remember when the backup just has to go play a useless week 18 game but the Rams one did not remember that

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20:40Derrik Klassen: All right, Derek, we purposefully left Sunday night football off to the side a little bit. We had so much to get to during the recap show. We wanted to do this justice. And look, I made I made some flippant remarks because this was not an overly entertaining game as the Atlanta Falcons beat the Vikings. Twenty two to six took until the final five minutes for us to see a touchdown. lot of fuel goals, a lot of sloppy play, particularly on JJ McCarthy's part. But I'm going to take this opportunity to offer a little bit of a mea culpa because as unmemorable as this game was, it doesn't do justice to how pleasantly surprised I was with the Atlanta Falcons on Sunday night who didn't do anything crazy, but just played like a smart, efficient football game.

21:31Derrik Klassen: And you can't always count on that from the Atlanta Falcons.

21:34Dave Helman: Yeah, they seemed like adults, which again, you can't always count on from the Atlanta Falcons. And I really think that that's true on both sides of the ball. Like I'll start with the offense because I think that that's just the part. That's the side of the ball that I think going into the year we were probably most excited about. Their offensive line and run game was phenomenal in this game, which this is what we were hoping they would be. Yes. And it's troubling for the Vikings for a defense that like invested so much in their front. in this offseason, we're like, we're going to sign Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen.

22:04Dave Helman: And, you know, last year they had drafted Dallas Turner and they invested so much in it. It is just in this game clearly went awry for them. Like Chris Lindstrom in particular was insane in this game. Like he was moving people five yards off the line of scrimmage on seemingly every play. Charlie Werner, the blocking tight end, had a really, really good day as well. And then Bajon Robinson is just like. He is probably the smoothest ball carrier in the NFL, which doesn't make him the best. Obviously, Saquon Barkley is incredibly explosive and like Henry is kind of his own unique thing. But just in terms of the agility and smoothness at which he can move his feet and change direction and spin out of tackles is just like it's it's really special to watch.

22:44And so the fact that he was able to do that with a little bit of better blocking than I think he got

22:49Dave Helman: even last week or at certain parts last year, I think was incredibly special to watch. And then the last thing I would say, too, is like Michael Penix was I don't know if he's good or anything, but he at least looks like a competent NFL quarterback. And like, he's eyes are in the right spot trying to make the right throws. It's like, okay, that's, that's a good starting point.

23:06Derrik Klassen: Okay. I am going to gas up Michael Penix a little bit because I, I just want to, I remembered this while I was rewatching the game. Cause it's easy to fixate on JJ because it's his first year and he did what he did against Chicago, but everybody talks about McCarthy playing his first NFL football. And it feels like people just take for granted that this was start number five for Michael Penix Jr. It was his second career road start. He only played on the road one out of those three games at the end of last year. And obviously this is his first road game of 2025. He's played more football than JJ and he wasn't hurt last year, but still a guy who hasn't done a ton at the NFL level.

23:49Derrik Klassen: And I thought the Falcons were just exceptionally clean on Sunday night. And it was a little shaky in the early going. They had a false start and a delay of game on the first possession. Totally understandable because U S bank stadium gets rowdy as hell. Like that is a formidable place to play. And it's Sunday night football in the early going. But once they sort of calmed down, look, I know Penix's numbers aren't flashy. They do go one of five in the red zone, but I just, I thought he was so calm and poised. He made the right decisions. His eyes were in the right place. Obviously, a big part of this was that the Falcons knew they could lean on the run game.

24:32Derrik Klassen: But to go on to go into that environment in your second career. Yeah, I mean, your second season, your second road start and just kind of looked like a seasoned pro who nudie was doing and very rarely looked overwhelmed. I thought it was really impressive, even if the counting stats weren't.

24:50Dave Helman: yeah and like the red zone thing this could be an offense that just struggles a little bit in the red zone because one they're more of a zone based offense they're not really a downhill at you type of run game which I think sometimes in the red zone especially inside the 10 can hurt you a little bit uh and then panics I think just the way that he throws being such a line drive guy not having a lot of touch can sometimes hurt you in the red zone but like in between the 20s I thought this offense looked really impressive like there are a couple of plays for panics I want to highlight again I think there are still some issues with this game but generally to me eyes going to the right spot and against zone coverage in particular he's pretty good at fitting the ball where he needs to in the middle of the first quarter there's a third down where they're kind of driving down the field they are in vikings territory um they have kyle pitts aligned to the right side away from trips and penix knows it's tampa too and he just rips it into the hole between the the flat corner and that other hole player um underneath to that side i thought that was a really good play there was another in the fourth quarter again against like kind of a palms cover two look where the corner is like a little bit sitting, waiting for the number two receiver to run outside.

25:52Dave Helman: They run a stick concept. Michael Penix just, he sees the linebacker like a tad slow reacting to the number two, running his little stick route, and he just rips it. Like he just, Penix's trigger, I think is very good. And so even if I have some concerns about like, can he make that many plays outside of the pocket? Can he be a scrambler? Can he, you know, really layer the ball when he needs to in man coverage? I don't know, but his ability to at least beat zone coverage is like, it's a pretty good starting point for this offense.

26:17Derrik Klassen: I just love the irony that the Falcons trusted him to just not make the mistakes, even though, again, this is like a young quarterback who hasn't done it a lot. But he absolutely did just that. I thought my favorite throw of his of the night was ironically the Drake London fumble. But I just thought it was my soul. I thought it was just a beautifully placed ball. And like Josh Metellus was creeping on it, probably breaks it up or maybe even picks it off if it's not as good of a throw as it was. but it was perfectly on point. And yeah, Drake London just can't hold onto the ball. But I thought his ball placement on some of those like intermediate throws was, was very impressive.

26:56Yeah.

26:56Dave Helman: That one was great too. Cause like you said, Metellus is driving on it. And so he leaves it actually on London's like back shoulder kind of, so he can like spin around and get it. That was just the chemistry between those two is also really cool. The chemistry he already has with London and pits is like, it's, it's awesome to see.

27:11Derrik Klassen: And then with nine and a half to play. and I think I think part of this is just the Vikings defense giving out after not really getting supported by their offense but when you needed to put this thing away that's exactly what they did 12 play 83 yard scoring drive that took six minutes off the clock and I loved it pinnick when pinnick's went two for two for 31 yards two really nice throws I think they were both to Drake London to get them like away from their own goal line and then once they got out near midfield, they were like, all right, we're just running over you. We don't care. And they ran eight straight times time, time to just demoralize you on our way to the end zone.

27:52Derrik Klassen: And yeah, shocker of shockers. The Falcons were one of the worst teams in the league at running the football last year. They respond to that by having the best rushing success rate of week two, at least among games played as of Monday, there's two more to go, but just an incredibly efficient rushing performance. I don't think you'll be surprised to learn. John Robinson was second only to Jonathan Taylor and rushing yards over expectation, which, yeah, if you watched the way he was dancing around tackles all night, I don't think that's terribly surprising.

28:23Dave Helman: No, not at all. And like, yeah, again, he was phenomenal. And like some of his, you know, the rushing yards are over expectation can sometimes be turning like eight into 12 or something like that with John Robinson. A lot of the time, especially last year, it's like turning two into five somehow. And he did some of that last night. The only complaint I really again, I'm the eternal critic. The only complaint I want to leverage against the Falcons offense multiple times in this game, they got inside the Vikings 30 and had like a fourth and two and fourth and three and didn't go for it. You have so many horses on offense, man.

28:52Dave Helman: Like go for it. Like you have you have a quarterback who's playing well, who doesn't make that many mistakes. You have one of the best running backs in the league. Pitts is playing well. London's awesome. Like just be a little bit more aggressive for him or so. That's all I want.

29:04Derrik Klassen: defensive minded head coach, man, especially that's I'm, I'm always curious. Like, do you get more aggressive if you trust the other offense a little bit more? Or do you see the night that JJ McCarthy's having and say, Hey, field goals are probably going to get us across the finish line tonight, which let's talk about that. Let's I'm, I'm curious for your thoughts. Cause this is a classic case. I thought the Atlanta defense acquitted itself really well, but where do you strike the balance between was this just Minnesota being abysmal on offense or should we be giving Atlanta a little bit more credit I think there are a couple of things I

29:43Dave Helman: want to give I think it is a little bit more like this is just rookie quarterback and the Vikings were not playing very well but there are a couple things I want to give the the Falcons their credit for Billy Bowman even though he got like beat on the the over by Thielen and stuff like that Billy Bowman just played a really, really good game. Obviously, he has the interception, but he was just really scrappy in the run game. He was making a number of tackles in the flats like he is just, I think, a player that is really important for them if he continues to play well. So I think he looked good.

30:09Dave Helman: And then a couple of their pressures and a couple of their their pass archers looked good. Like obviously, we made the jokes about Justin School on one of our earlier podcasts and Jalen Walker absolutely worked him. But there was a sack that James I think it actually They end up counting as a half sack for James Pierce, which is kind of unfortunate for him. But there was one where he and I think it might have been Ruka Roro are running like a little twist. And James Pierce loops around from the edge, gets across Donovan Jackson as the left guard. And Jackson's just like a hair too slow to see it.

30:38Dave Helman: Pierce wins that inside shoulder and goes and gets the quarterback. And so the fact that they've got a little bit more juice to get like loopers in, you know, with guys like Pearson, like like that, that is just not something we ever really see from the Falcons pass rush. And so the fact that we got some of that, I do think was good. So I still got questions about them, but I can't remember the last time I saw a six sack Falcons game.

30:59Derrik Klassen: So six sacks on 16 pressures. So a very efficient game from the Atlanta pass rush and both of your first round picks get in on the action. Yeah, I mean, the Jalen Walker, it's a really fun play. I want to see him do it against not just in school, considering what we've already seen from him over the first two weeks of the season. but it's a nice place to start for the guys that you clearly want to get off to a fast start, given where they were drafted and what you did to get them. I just, I thought the Vikings offense was just so bad. And I don't even really mean like JJ missing throws, or we can talk about JJ not really throwing to his left.

31:44Derrik Klassen: I know that's a popular topic of conversation on social media right now, But just in general, they looked bad on just levels of like execution and offense design, like botching the snap on the on the sneak at the beginning of the game that keeps you from picking that up. There were a lot of botched snaps in this game, by the way. And I know Ryan Kelly went out injured, but several of them happened while Ryan Kelly was still in the game where you fumble on the sneak. J.J. McCarthy was like reaching to his left and his right and above on multiple snaps throughout this game. They had a sequence that really caught me off guard on the Atlanta side of the field where it was like a wide zone handoff going left.

32:28Derrik Klassen: and JJ just like missed his landmark. Like he almost tripped over himself, getting the ball into Jordan Mason's hands. And like, it's not a big deal. The play was fine. It was like a two or three yard gain, but it just, it was jarring on an, to see that from an NFL team where it's like, man, you guys just look rusty and like, you don't know what you're doing. And like, it was jarring to see that from not only an NFL team, but a well-coached NFL team. It just looked sloppy in a lot of areas.

32:58Dave Helman: It did. It looked surprisingly sloppy. And I think that was partly true last week, again, where they were like a little bit late getting in the play calls. And maybe some of that's just young quarterback. And I think there were a couple of those issues even in this game. And then the other one to me that seemed sloppy. And I'm still not even certain what went wrong on this play. But in early in the second quarter, it was one of the sacks that J.J. McCarthy took where both guys off the edges for Atlanta end up in the backfield. The Vikings are running like this two back set. But to me, what looks like what happens is they have Aaron Jones, who is the left running back, like flare out on this little swing.

33:31Dave Helman: It looks like a toss. And JJ like fake tosses to him. You'll see a lot with that play design. If it's a play action, some teams will like fake that toss to that side and then pull the guard from the other way and make it look like you're trying to get a play out into that side. So in my mind, the right guard should be pulling, but he doesn't at the start of the play. And then as the protection unfolds, you can see the line slide to the right and fries realize a little bit late that like, oh, maybe I should have backed up and I was supposed to pull. That looked like that might have like I it's honestly difficult for me to figure out what happened on that play.

34:02Dave Helman: But like that seemed to me like the past protection unit was just not in alignment with with what the play call was going. And then obviously McCarthy just gets smoked on it. Just a lot of weird, sloppy things for a team that I typically don't describe that to.

34:14Derrik Klassen: I don't want to be a Monday morning quarterback too much because we it's hard to know this stuff without being in meeting rooms and seeing game plans and stuff like that. But Atlanta was either doing something to ruin Minnesota's protection plan or Minnesota was just not on top of their stuff at all because two of those six sacks came from down edge rushers who just didn't get touched. like I think Leonard Floyd had one and I like that's the one you just mentioned and then uh I believe it oh it was uh Zach Harrison who just likes that right yes the strip sack the the right tackle and right guard they focus all of their energy on on the d tackle and just leave the end completely untouched which like I said maybe maybe that's the plan and the back is supposed to chip the end or something.

35:09Derrik Klassen: It's hard for me to say. I just know two untouched, unblocked sacks given up in one game at home, by the way, where communication isn't supposed to be an issue. That seems really shitty to me like that. I don't, I don't know where the screw up happened, but it definitely happened. Yeah.

35:27Dave Helman: They just looked not as clean as they were supposed to. And that on top of like, I, again, JJ, I don't think looked very well, uh, very good in his own right like he is I think this was even kind of true of him in college too but like he just for the first like quarter of some games is just not ready to play like he just I don't know if he's too amped I don't know if he just needs to settle in I don't know if like he needs to get like he is weirdly a quarterback who isn't good on the script like I don't know what it is but early in games he just always is like even the first throw of this game they like sprint Jalen Naylor in motion from right to left across the formation and JJ is just immediately supposed to throw it to him in the flask this is a play in Michigan by the way they ran a billion times for him because it's a very easy throw and he gets to the top of his drop back and he like fidgets around a couple more steps and then he throws it and it's like you probably ran this play a million times in practice this week like just throw the ball and it's just little things like that that I think he struggles with and then it was I think at the very end of that drive they do the they try to sneak on fourth and one and they botch it and stuff like it just not ready early in games and I think he settled in a little bit at the middle of the game but then obviously you know things things got a little bit out of hand even later and so it just he to me is like again this is why he's a guy who needs reps and the fact that he's not going to get them for potentially a month is

36:43Derrik Klassen: incredibly troubling for this team I'm gonna say classic case of a young quarterback who needs to play because I will say there were I could think of like three throws where I was like yep that's the talent they told me he had like the throw to Justin Jefferson to set up the field goal at the end of the half I think he had another one to Jefferson there were two or three where I was like yes that is a big boy throw JJ McCarthy well done the the Jalen Naylor one where like to the

37:09Dave Helman: right side where he puts him on like the four yard line or something like that where Naylor runs that little like out against Terrell like that was one of those it's like okay if if McCarthy can make a couple more of those throws a game without some of the bad ones then we're gonna be in business but he just for now has more of the bad ones than I think that you would like.

37:26Derrik Klassen: Also a fairly costly game from an injury standpoint. I mentioned Kelly leaving Justin school also suffered a concussion in this game. Aaron Jones has a hamstring injury and on the Falcon side of this, AJ Terrell suffers a hamstring injury as well. So the Vikings must be feeling like it's all against them right now between the JJ injury, losing this game and everything else they got to be dealing with. I am really glad and we'll move on after this, but I'm really happy that you mentioned Billy Bowman, just like a phenomenal like breakout performance for him. Almost had a second pick, I believe.

38:03Derrik Klassen: Right. Didn't it get like waved off? Yeah. Yeah.

38:06Dave Helman: It like it ended up hitting the ground, but like he made a great play to work back from. I think he was the flat defender on that play and see someone trying to settle in around the numbers. And he's like, oh, I'm coming back. And he almost picked that ball off because JJ was a little late. So he just again, really outside of the one time I think he got beat by Thielen. He played a really good game. There was a screen earlier on in the game that he stopped for two yards because he made a great tackle, which I am like reminding myself that half of great nickel and safety plays. Like, can you just tackle the guy?

38:33Dave Helman: And Billy Bowman is checking that box for me. So pretty good player.

38:37Derrik Klassen: One more thing I want to shout out, and I can hear Robert rolling his eyes at me as he listens to this later. But Falcon special teams were baller in this game. And it's worth mentioning. They were really good. Like obviously you sit young way coup and, uh, John Parker Romo comes in and drills five field goals, but that's just the headliner. I also thought the, the Falcons kick coverage was phenomenal in this game. Like they gave up six punt return yards. The Vikings average starting field position was the 26. They started four of their 10 possessions inside the 20 yard line. And for good measure, they got a strip on a on a punt return, like at the very end of the game when it was garbage time.

39:20Derrik Klassen: But just like dominated the Vikings in special teams. And that type of stuff matters when you have a young quarterback. I thought it was very fun.

39:29Dave Helman: No, that's a really good point. Like that is one of those things that, again, when you're playing against a team like this against like the Vikings, it's like that. That stuff goes a long way.

39:36Derrik Klassen: A very impressive week to for the Atlanta Falcons looking more like the team we hoped they could be. They got the Panthers next week. The Vikings, like we said, play the Jake Browning Cincinnati Bengals. We'll keep an eye on that moving into week three. Another game we wanted to get to, Cam Ward going against the LA Rams. We will do that on the other side of this break. It's smart to always have a few financial goals. And a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year.

40:15Derrik Klassen: Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card.

40:29Derrik Klassen: All right, Derek. I just, I think I'm just going to have, honestly, Titans-Rams. The Rams beat the Titans 33-19 in the early window on Sunday. both of these teams are going to be really high on my list of teams. I want to make sure I watch back every single week for basically the same reason. And that's what, I mean, really the Rams entire offense is just a joy to watch as long as Matthew Stafford is back there doing his thing. And I also just want to see what nonsense cam ward is going to get into. And we got a healthy dose dose of that on Sunday afternoon.

41:03Dave Helman: We definitely did, man. Like this was, we talked about it a little bit like what was so Stafford against the the Texans in week one it was a lot of beating cover three and throwing over those linebackers and and that's a lot of what the Texans like to run and so I my question coming into the week was like okay the Titans played a lot more cover two in week one and we all talked about like okay was that because they were playing Bo Nix or is that what they like to do and I think it was a little bit of mix of both like the Titans definitely played a little bit more single high rotation where they were playing a little bit heavier in the box but you still got some of the the the cover two stuff and honestly like one of my favorite plays and throws that we got from this game from Matthew Stafford in the Rams offense was against the Tampa two look so like early in the second quarter they're under center they've got trips to the left side and it's first down the Titans end up bailing into to Tampa two the number three receiver runs like this deep bender over over the middle of the field and so the pole runner he's got to run with him so he gets cleared out a little bit Devontae Adams as the number two like kind of settles in right under the deep safety to the left side but not far enough across the field to where he's like running back into where the pole runner just ran to and he just sits in the void and Stafford just rips it automatically and it's like that's that's big that's big boy quarterbacking that's big boy football and so I just the fact that they were able to to access a lot of that in this game and then even when just they wanted to pick their one-on-ones with Adams against uh Ligarius Sneed they were also able to do that plenty in this game So this was just my question was like, what was Stafford going to look like against a very different defense from week one?

42:34Dave Helman: And it turns out a very good quarterback is able to equip himself quite well in that scenario.

42:39Derrik Klassen: It's not exactly like groundbreaking analysis. This is exactly why everybody was excited about Devante Adams joining the Rams. It's why a lot of people view them as a Super Bowl contender. but it's just pure joy to watch a big boy veteran quarterback who can access every throw imaginable, who has seen every coverage imaginable, who is not afraid to rip it anywhere. He needs to combined with two receivers with just such an innate understanding of spacing and route running and where they're supposed to be. Every, I feel like every single Rams game for as long as Stafford is healthy, which is hopefully all year, you can just pull up as many as like 12 throws where even if it's not like a jaw dropping throw, you're like, oh, man, that was really nice.

43:31Derrik Klassen: And just like this is just a fun offense to watch.

43:34Dave Helman: And it's beautiful because they Puka Nakua and Devante Adams complement each other really well in a lot of ways, but also in the particular ways that Stafford likes to play. And what I mean by that is Stafford is very willing to throw his receiver into a car crash. And Puka Nakua is like, fine, I'll do it. Like, I don't care. I'll go in there and do it. And like, that's great. And then Devontae Adams is, I think, a little bit less willing to do that. But Adams is also like, if you throw the ball anywhere near him, at his feet, two feet above him, on the sideline, whatever, he just has this incredible ability to go find it.

44:05Dave Helman: And Stafford is a really good guy of like, if I need to put a weird location on this ball to get it where it needs to go, I can do that. We have two weeks in a row now where Devontae Adams has like the only place Stafford could put the ball was like at Adams's shoelaces and he just scoops it off the ground and picks it up. And it's just like they have such a cool pairing of these two receivers for a quarterback like Matthew Stafford that just I cannot wait to get 16 more weeks of this.

44:30Derrik Klassen: We joked about it on Sunday while the game was happening. It felt like a very concerted effort to get Devontae Adams going in the red zone. I counted five red zone targets, including three in a row at one point that just didn't work out. They did finally get it going. I think Devante had a 16 yard touchdown on just like a go fade type of ball to the back of the end zone. But it felt like they were very much trying to get that on tape, get Devante those looks in that part of the field. And so he winds up with 13 targets, 106 yards. And that's even funnier because very quietly Puka has 130 total yards of offense to go with a 45 yard rushing touchdown.

45:14Derrik Klassen: I pulled this up. Puka is currently third in the league in total scrimmage yards with 267. He's the only receiver in the top five, and he needed 15 fewer touches to get there than anybody that's around him in those stats.

45:30Dave Helman: just an absurd player and the so he gets that 45 yarder on a fourth and one like jet sweep by the way the the angle that he erases where he like so i think it's uh i want to say it's i think it's xavier woods it's like flying down into the alley in the backfield yeah it was it was xavier woods yeah and like honestly woods is making he takes a good angle he's squeezing like you know what air is in the alley like he actually squeezes it really well but Nakua just makes this like almost like a slalom runner just like leans to his right and then like leans into the tackle leading above from him and like somehow stays on balance works through another tackle and just keeps going and like that is just he is one of like five receivers who has true running back ability with the ball in his hands and that in that particular scenario worked out as well as it could have like he's just just such a phenomenally cool player i have to assume

46:25Derrik Klassen: xavier woods eyes were as big as dinner plates because he had it man he had it the whole way and if he gets it it's a tfl to blow up a rams drive near midfield maybe you give your offense a short field maybe though that's the that's the type of play that can help you spring an upset against the super bowl contender and instead he's watching puka nakua celebrate like six seconds

46:48Dave Helman: Slater exactly and like for as much as I think this was all like a great Rams game they played pretty well there are two guys on the Titans defense I want to shout out one of them is Xavier Woods obviously he misses that tackle which really sucks but he had he hit uh 2-2 Atwell smoked him in the flats early in the game uh he crushed a tight end screen that to Tyler Higby at some point I think a little bit before the half and then there was a point where the Rams were in the red zone like near the goal line and they try to run like a little tunnel screen to Puka Nakua, Xavier Woods just comes and blows it up.

47:18Dave Helman: Like I thought he played a really, really well, especially fitting from depth. And then the other guy to me, the rookie Olufemi Ola Dejo, the Rams tight ends were in hell against this man in the run game. Like there was a duo call early in the game where he smokes Tyler Higbee. There was another one where Davis Allen was like kind of slicing across the formation and he just blows him up. So and so if he can, their whole sell this offseason was like, we're going to get bigger and stronger on the edge. And the rookie is certainly helping them do that.

47:49Derrik Klassen: It obviously didn't matter at the end of the day. I mean, the Rams put up 439 yards of offense. And even with a not as great as they would prefer performance in the red zone, they score 33 points. But I did think about y 'all from the preview show because we talked about like what kind of funky shit is Denard Wilson going to throw at Matthew Stafford? And is he going to be able to catch him off guard? He did like he did do it in the sequence right before halftime. Titans scored the crazy cam war touchdown that we can talk about in a minute. Then the Rams get the ball back and Stafford immediately throws a pick.

48:26Derrik Klassen: And when I watched the dots, I laughed because Wilson had Cody Barton lined up in the B gap. And at the snap of the ball, he just bails the hell out of there and just starts hauling ass to the sticks. dude must have covered like 18 yards of ground and stafford just clearly was counting on like the corner route being there and had no conception of a linebacker filling that zone and throws what looks like a bad interception because like if you just watch it on tv it looks like he throws it right to the linebacker but watching the dots i was like what the hell even is this this is

49:04Dave Helman: hilarious and like what's funny is he almost got bo nicks on the same thing last week where instead of Cody Barton is I think it was a money hooker who was like lined up over the B sprinted out high into the flats and quarterback tries to throw it doesn't see him come off and hooker didn't catch it Barton did this time and it's just like if he's going to be able to pull off that every week and catch a quarterback once every game pretty good pretty pretty good way to be calling plays that

49:28Derrik Klassen: sequence gave me a little bit of hope for the Titans in the long run because you put together a touchdown drive you pick off Matthew Stafford you kick a field goal the Titans led this game at halftime like the final score does not truly indicate that this was a scrappy effort for like three quarters but that's because there's just there's just a lot to work on here with Tennessee other than Cam Ward making six fun throws a week where would you like to start

49:57Dave Helman: uh I would like to start by reminding people that JC Latham did not play in this game um and you immediately felt that by the way like on I think it was the second play that the Titans had the ball John Ajuku who is their backup right tackle false starts and so that puts him in second and 13 and then literally on the next snap on that second and 13 Byron Young just fries him around the edge like Cam Ward took some bad sacks in this game that were his fault that one was like a every quarterback in the league takes this sack type of sack and so that was just like a tough start for them and I think you felt that for a lot of the rest of the day and so that hurt them a little bit and I think that hurts a quarterback like Ward in particular where I think he's doing a lot of stuff well and I said this in week one and we'll talk about some of these plays when the ball comes out Cam Ward looks really good it's just that he's having some moments right now where he doesn't get the ball out and some of that is he needs to be throwing hot some of that is he's running around for longer than he should and maybe he should just throw the ball away and so he's got some of those issues but like when the ball is coming out he's he's having some really good moments and there were there were definitely a handful in this game that I was still like man he's when the ball is out it looks as pretty as ever Byron Young

51:03Derrik Klassen: You could, I mean, you could say he wrecked this game because on top of the early sack, he's the guy that got the strip sack that really turned this from a fairly competitive game. Yeah. I mean, it's 20 to 16 early in the fourth and that strip sack sets up the Devante Adams go ball in the red zone. And from there, we're just running out the clock. So the Rams pass rush, once again, very active. They get to ward five times. He's been sacked 11 times on the year already. I do. It is a good caveat to note that JC Latham didn't play in this game, but probably not going to have perfect health along the offensive line.

51:41Derrik Klassen: And on top of that, another, I'll just say disconcerting performance from Dan Moore on the left side as well. Like I don't, I don't have a lot of faith that the protection is going to be as good as, as cam Ward would prefer for most of this year. I mean, it will get easier. I think I should say that. I mean, it's going to get easier than Denver and the Rams to start, but you're in a division with Houston. I mean, there's plenty more good fronts that you're going to have to play. So it's, it's not encouraging, I would say. Yeah.

52:13Dave Helman: And like that's, that really does throw a wrench in the calculus for the Tennessee offense. Whereas I think, I think Cam Ward is very comfortable holding onto the ball and keeping his eyes downfield. But in terms of pocket movement, sometimes he prefers to move laterally instead of up in the pocket. and given that the interior is actually pretty good but the tackles now with dan moore not playing so well and the right side obviously not having latham the the tackles are just getting like exploded immediately and he's not always stepping up into the areas that he can in the pocket and so i think that is a little bit of an issue for them whereas like at least if latham was healthy you could help dan moore on the other side a little bit and you know maybe you could assuage that issue just a little bit um without bashing cam ward too much i do at least want to bring up a handful of the plays that i thought were really good in this game from him um i wouldn't

52:57Derrik Klassen: let you bash cam ward anyway like i just i this this guy is so fun to play and if you watch these two titans games and like even on even understanding that there's a lot he's got to work on and yeah getting rid of the ball and not trying to do too much hero shit even though it is really fun when he does but like i'm so encouraged by two games of cam ward and i don't understand how you couldn't be if you've actually watched these two games like am i off base in that no the good is like

53:26Dave Helman: the good is really good stuff man and like what's what's funny is that he it seems like he's a quarterback that doesn't play with good timing because he takes so many sacks but I think like that is more of an issue of like he just likes to create and so he'll hold on to the ball but in the moments where I think he does have to be on time and and like knows what he's looking at pre-snap and and is confident in it he does actually like do a good job of speeding up his drops and getting the ball out quickly and like really speeding up his throwing process like to me the best one that he has in this entire game actually ends up dropped which is really unfortunate but it's second quarter for four minutes 40 seconds left the rams are like slow rotating one of the safeties down to run like this three deep three under fire zone and so there's a gap between the middle hook player and the corner trying to cover ridley on this like 12 yard in breaker he throws the shit out of that ball and puts it right on ridley's face mask and there's just a little bit of traffic and he's not able to hold on.

54:22Dave Helman: But like that is to me, you know, I think we've joked about like Cam Ward kind of plays like Matthew Stafford. That is like a Matthew Stafford makes that throw every week type of thing. And so the fact that Ward put that on tape, I was like, all right, man. Again, when the ball comes out, it looks awesome.

54:35Derrik Klassen: That throw made me want to throw my laptop out the window. I was so mad. And maybe some of Calvin Ridley's drops in week one were admittedly really tough plays where like, maybe I shouldn't judge him that harshly. this ball needed to be caught and it would have been a third and 13 conversion in what at the time was a close game like it it pisses me off how and cam ward's not perfect and the offensive line hasn't been great but the the veterans the high-priced veterans on this team are not picking up the rookie quarterback like calvin ridley and he's not been that guy like he's not playing up to what the price tag says.

55:19Derrik Klassen: Tony Pollard had a drop in this game as well. I thought he was good as a runner. But when you just when you see the guys making all of the money, making avoidable mistakes while the quarterback is fighting for his life, it it drives me crazy. And it's it's two weeks now where I think it's fair to say that.

55:36Dave Helman: Yeah. And like even I thought Zeitler in this game was like a little rattled having to play next to like a backup right tackle. And you could feel him really wanting to help him out, which I think led to even some some own like of his mistakes. And so it was just it's Cam Ward is again, he's making a lot of bad plays holding onto the ball and taking sacks. Like if you were to extrapolate his sack rate, he would take like 90 sacks by the end of the year, which is unacceptable. But again, the good is really good. And this is I know I've probably said this with other quarterbacks in the past, but like it's just there's something about the way that Cam Ward plays the confidence, the arm talent that I'm like through two weeks, even though it's not been perfect, I'm still all the way in.

56:13Derrik Klassen: I think it's, I, I say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, but I'm at the point where I just want to see the young guys ball because obviously Alec Alec IO manner made like some amazing plays in this game. He had the crazy touchdown on the scramble drill that everybody's seen on social media, but he also made the like one armed sideline catch that got them into position for that score, which Cam Ward playing beyond his years, by the way, because he hurries the offense up to the line and gets a snap off before anybody has a chance to look at that thing. It was under two minutes, so it wouldn't have been a challenge situation, but you could see Cam Ward getting everybody set.

56:53Derrik Klassen: Like let's run a play before anybody thinks to look at this thing. And then the Titans had a punt return touchdown brought back by a flag, but this is two weeks in a row where Chimray DK mainly as a returner, but like he's flashing juice on a regular basis. So my tongue in cheek suggestion is just let the babies play, man. Let cam get out here with these young guys. If the veterans are going to piss me off every week, then let's just put the babies out here and see what it looks like. Because the, some of these young guys are coming through in a really exciting way.

57:27Dave Helman: I agree. Like DK with the ball in his hands and like a, uh, you look, I am an or like he is, I think, can be a frustrating player to me at times because he'll drop some of the easy ones. But the great plays that he makes like it was funny. I was actually posting on Blue Sky, like watching through this game before we did the show. And I got to the Ridley drop and I was like, can someone make a play for Cam Ward in this offense? And then it was like the next drive. I am an or makes that play. I was like, oh, that's right. Someone did make a play in this offense. So, again, yeah, the young guys can this is going to be a process for all these guys.

57:54Dave Helman: But and I know it can be frustrating dealing with some of that early in the season, especially when you are not necessarily a coaching staff that is like locked into your jobs because how poorly last year went. But I feel like you'll see the fruits of it by like end of October if we really get a lot more reps from these guys.

58:11Derrik Klassen: Ultimately, a very unstressful win for the Rams. They get to 2-0. They have, I don't know how much you've looked at the week three schedule, Derek, but they're at the Eagles in week three, which sounds... See, I wasn't that intrigued by the Super Bowl rematch. I am very intrigued for a Rams Eagles rematch in 2025. That sounds like it could be super enticing, but as sloppy and as disjointed as it's looked and as far as they have to go, I just can't cam word seems like he has it. And I'm just, I'm going to have one eye on their TV for the rest of the season. And I won't apologize for it every single week.

58:50Dave Helman: And again, on Wednesday mornings when I've got time for film. All right,

58:54Derrik Klassen: before we get out of here, we do like to take your calls. We solicited voicemails on Sunday. Beller, I believe we have a couple of them. So if you want to run them, let's do it.

59:05Dave Helman: Hey, gang. So I did some digging, and I can confirm that the Jaguar Stadium is not, in fact, built on an Indian burial ground, a pet cemetery, or any combination thereof. That said, I was wondering if you could explain why every time the Jags fix a problem, three more of them spring up. Not enough targets for BTJ? Don't worry. we'll throw you plenty if you can bund them upwards with the bingles defense to make highlight reels out of procedural penalties on motion i have a questionable dpi calls instead and don't forget a smattering of drops in the end zone for massive point swings i know this is game two of year one but is this franchise cursed did we use all our good fortune in our

59:42Derrik Klassen: first four years of existence thanks i completely understand anybody that has angst about surrendering a lead and losing a game ultimately to the Jake Browning Cincinnati Bengals. The one thing I'll pick out there though, Derek is it's not as if they're not trying to get BTJ the ball. I mean, we talked about that on the recap show. There were several plays left out there by Brian Thomas Jr. I don't know what the, what the issue is. If he and Trevor Lawrence can get on the same page, if Trevor Lawrence can, I mean, it sounds crazy to say you got to stop throwing the ball to your number one receiver over the middle of the field but maybe we can find a workaround but it's not as if liam cohen wasn't trying to get the ball into btj's hands they they have the opposite of what we've talked about with

1:00:31Dave Helman: kyler murray and marvin harrison jr whereas i think like marvin harrison jr wants to work over the middle of the field on these in-breaking routes and kyler can be a little bit iffy about the timing location of those trevor i think some of his best throws are throwing over the middle and he's very willing to do it he the anticipation is good the timing is good and brian thomas jr just does not seem as interested in doing it. The third and five where he just like stops his route and doesn't want to take the hit. That one is incredibly egregious. And then the one on the fourth and five, like inside the 10, just confusing.

1:01:00Dave Helman: Like, because he sits and settles as if he's waiting for the ball, like on the hash mark, which he should be on a shallow like that against zone coverage. I think that part of it is good, but it's almost like he was anticipating the hit too early. And that's why he was trying to turn really fast and didn't want to catch the ball. It's just very frustrating about whatever's going on there. The other thing I want to point out drops in the end zone for the Jaguars is actually not a new thing. This is something that they were doing like last year and the year before. I feel like it's been at least three years of this.

1:01:28Dave Helman: Yes. Yeah. Like I forget who it was, but I remember like a couple of years ago or maybe it was last year. Someone posted like a minutes long highlight reel of Jaguars players missing catches in the end zone for Trevor Lawrence. And it's like this is just a thing that they do no matter how talented this receiving core is. And so I do think it is bizarre that they've gotten to a point where they have with the chemistry of this receiver room where like him and Bryce Thomas Jr. are not on the same page at all. But like weirdly, he and like Parker Washington and Diami Brown are like locked in. It's just a weird, weird situation they've got going on there.

1:02:01Derrik Klassen: It's funny because I simultaneously feel good and bad about the Jags where I'm like, I look at it and I'm like, OK, I mean, you had 400 yards of offense. He scored 27 points. If BTJ catches the fourth and five down in the red zone, none of this is a story and the Jags are a two and O team and we're feeling pretty good about them. Liam Cohen has gotten Travis ETN going, which is very fun. It looks like all of the fun screen stuff that he was doing in Tampa is following him to Jacksonville. Like you can see that in their games where a lot of the fun play design stuff is there. It's definitely not perfect, but it's been good enough that they're a play away from being two and oh, in my opinion.

1:02:46Derrik Klassen: The problem is you don't get there. And we talked about the Jags defense potentially being a little fraudulent. And you can quibble with the DPI on the final drive if you want to. But you still had plenty of opportunities to stop Jake Browning from scoring 30 points on you and you didn't do it. And so I'm not overly concerned coming out of that one game, but now I'm like, okay, you blew a winnable game and now it's Texans Niners Chiefs on deck. And it could be so much different if you just execute two or three things better. And you, again, you have that cushion. I mean, ironically, it's the Bengals that get the cushion instead.

1:03:27Derrik Klassen: I mean, that's the margin in the NFL, I guess.

1:03:29Dave Helman: I think that's a great point. I think in terms of like, how do I really feel about the Jaguars? I think in terms of like the win versus the loss, I don't really think it changes anything for me, because, again, it was just like if that DPI call doesn't go the way that it goes, they win the game. But all the other stuff with like Brian Thomas Jr. and some of the other issues they had on defense like that still would have been there. So win or lose, I don't know if that changes things. It's what you said about the cushion, where I think that this is a team where even in the best case scenario, this was probably only ever going to be a 10 win team.

1:03:56Dave Helman: So you really needed to squeeze out whatever little wins that you could in these situations. And so to drop a game like this that you were kind of gifted by not having Joe Burrow in the game. Extremely, extremely disappointing for a team like this.

1:04:09Derrik Klassen: I definitely like I feel fine about the Jags in the long run, at least right now. Maybe I will regret those words in a few weeks. But yeah, like a loss like this makes it difficult to imagine them jumping out to some kind of hot start, which would be an admittedly fun story in Jacksonville, but your road must be harder. I'm afraid Jags fans. We'll see how it goes moving forward. All right. We got one more voicemail. I believe Beller, let's hear it. I'm currently doing my commute right now in Chicago,

1:04:40Dave Helman: where I live as a diehard Bears fan. And I am just ejected. Now I predicted that we would start the season. Oh, and two. I knew that there would maybe be some bumps in the road for a young quarterback under a new regime, but I never thought that it would look this bad this quickly. The worst part, I think, is that, as Robert said all summer, you know, at least this year, we can't blame the process, right? Coach Johnson was the battle of the ball. Caleb Williams, consensus, number one overall pick. We did all the right things. So who's left to blame? I'll tell you. It's myself. My dad wasn't even a diehard Bears fan like me.

1:05:20Dave Helman: He's a Bulls fan. He loves the I just happen to fall in love with football and this is what I get. So, um, the bears still suck and I'm an idiot.

1:05:30Derrik Klassen: Feeling a lot of that in the Chicago area right now. Can I just say, and I say this with admiration in my voice, I am not punching down at any bears fan, but every bears fan I talked to says the same thing where they're like, you know, I, I tempered my expectation and I, I thought it might be slow to start and I didn't want to get ahead of myself. And with love in my voice, that's a lie. Like every bears fan was secretly thinking like, ah, but what if it really is different? Like, what if, what if Caleb hits the ground running? What if the offense is just fricking awesome? We got all these high paid guys on defense.

1:06:06Derrik Klassen: Like, I don't really believe that any bears fan actually thought it might start slow. And I appreciate that. Like the, the point is to buy in and have fun. And I admire Bears fans who can still, you know, let their imaginations run wild after all this franchise has put them through. I mean that sincerely, I promise.

1:06:27Dave Helman: I just love how much that voicemail fizzled out. Like they just they didn't really know how to end their thoughts. It was just like, I'm just I guess I'm the problem. But you're not the problem. The Bears are the problem. And I think why this particular loss, this string of losses, obviously the first game where Caleb looks awesome for like the first half. and then it just completely explodes and he just kind of falls apart. The rest of the offense falls apart. They can't run the ball whatsoever. All of that is an incredibly frustrating way to lose. Then again against the Lions where you just stole their coach.

1:06:57Dave Helman: You saw what he did to you for years. And honestly, the Bears offense looked like fine in that game. They still couldn't run the ball, but I actually thought Caleb Williams had played pretty well in that game. The second and 32 interception that he throws where he's trying to be a hero is a little bit ridiculous, but like otherwise he played pretty well in that game. and then the defense just completely lets them down, which I do not think was part of the bargain here. Like, I think a lot of people probably expected the Bears defense to be solid. And I know they're missing guys like Jalen Johnson was not fully healthy.

1:07:25Dave Helman: Kyler Gordon did not play this game. I think TJ Edwards started this game and then did not finish it. So like they are a little bit banged up, even with that being the case. 50 points to anybody is just like inexcusable.

1:07:38Derrik Klassen: Yeah, two things can't be true in this case. Oftentimes they can. But right here, we can't talk about Dennis Allen being a difference making addition all summer and saying this could be their spags. We you want to have a former head coach who is a defensive mastermind who can he can overcome all of this and weather these storms and come up with these game plans. And he's going to be a reason if the Bears are good, why that's the case. And then at the same time, you can't say like, well, he has he doesn't have Jalen Johnson. He went out hurt. So naturally, they're the worst defense in the league.

1:08:11Derrik Klassen: Like, no good defensive coaches scheme around that stuff in the league. Every matchup of every single week, or at least the good ones do. So I know that they're banged up. I know the secondaries are wrecked right now. I don't needed you to even be good, but it can't be this. Like, you can't sell me that this is a difference making addition. And then the typical attrition that happens to every NFL team happens. And it's 52 points and six straight scoring drives. that just doesn't jive with me at all because that's the thing if they weren't even good in

1:08:45Dave Helman: this game but let's say they lose 21 to 31 where the Lions that I mean that's a pretty good day you score 31 points we're probably not getting many voicemails because that's like a reasonable way to lose to a team that we think is really really good but 52 points against anyone where a Monro St. Brown is an incredible player but has never scored three touchdowns in a game in his career and then finally does it to you here Jamison Williams is running wide open like Jameer Gibbs is getting whatever he wants in the run game like it's just tough day to be to be like for the Bears I think there was probably some expectation of offense might be up and down with Caleb Williams and you know fitting in new pieces in the run game for that to have not actually been the problem on that day and it was actually your defense giving up 50 just a frustrating frustrating

1:09:26Derrik Klassen: couple of weeks can I share my half-baked take with you I would love the re the reason the Lions scored 52 points. It's not Jared Goff. It's not Dan Campbell. It's not Amin Ross St. Brown. It was Isaac to slot when he made that catch that got them down to the goal line. Remember 25 seconds to play ball out past the 30 yard line. Like it's not a given that the lions are going to score a touchdown on this possession. Maybe they kick a field goal. Jake Bates had already missed a field goal in the early going of this game. So you're going to get to halftime down seven or 10, probably. And then Isaac to slot does what he does and makes another jaw dropping catch.

1:10:09Derrik Klassen: And now a touchdown is on the board and it's 28, 14. And the minute that happened, I was like, I do not trust this bears team to manage a 14 point deficit coming out of halftime on the road. Like this is a recipe for disaster. And I'm not saying the bears would have won, but I think if that end of half possession goes a little differently, maybe this is a more normal scoreline instead of 52 to 21.

1:10:37Dave Helman: Yeah. To get that type of juice, like going right into the half, like him making that kind of play, you get the lead. Like it's just, that is the exact type of thing that for like a new regime, new coach, young quarterback can kind of rattle you a little bit.

1:10:48Derrik Klassen: I'm not, I'm not giving up on the bears as a decent team. I think the schedule eases up a little bit. You know, we, we saw, we saw what the Cowboys defense put on tape in week two. I'd like to think Caleb can have some success there. So it's early bears fans, but once again, it is a disappointing start to the season, which even if you say you expected it, like I said, I don't fully believe you. And that's, that's the joy of football season is we just got to play the games. All right. That does it for the week to hangover. We got plenty more coming your week this way though. Don't you worry. We will have building the beast once again in the middle of the week.

1:11:28Derrik Klassen: We got the week three preview coming wall to wall content as per usual here at the athletic football show. Thanks to Derek. Thanks to y 'all for listening. Talk to you next time.

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