Trade Deadline Madness! Sauce Gardner to the Colts, Quinnen Williams to the Cowboys, and more

0:28Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. Diana joined us to just provide a little bit of context around some of the moves that did and did not happen, but really enjoyed this conversation with me, Dave and Derek. Let's get to it right now.

0:44When you're in the content game, you got to make some bets every once in a while, like they won't be doing construction in the office next to us. That's a bet that you have to make. We were doing this either way, right? We were doing this show no matter what happened over the next last 24 hours. If it was Logan Wilson and Jacoby Myers talk for an hour, we were doing Logan Wilson and Jacoby Myers talk for an hour. Thankfully, the timing on this is incredible. I don't like... It was silent for like three hours before this. I was about to talk about how fortunate we got and the stars aligning and all of this stuff happening.

1:22You can't have it all. To make this worthwhile. You can't have it all. I flew too close to the sun. That's right. Either way, we have plenty of shit come down the pipe today. So we do not have to have an hour of Logan Wilson discussion. And man, is that wonderful. That I was extremely, when I woke up this morning, that was the first deal of the day was the Logan Wilson thing. And I was like, Jerry made all of this circumstance to trade for a linebacker who wasn't playing on the worst defense in the league. I was like, this is ridiculous. And then a few hours later, we finally get him trading for like a serious player.

1:51I was like, okay, at least if you're going to do all that circumstance about stuff, trade for a serious like pro bowler. don't you love the idea that Jerry took the time to be like, yeah, we're working on the terms, but it's going to happen tomorrow. I'll let you read about it in the newspaper as if anybody reads the newspaper anymore. And then the Quentin Williams one is the one that happens like eight hours after the initial trade. You know, like why not get the big one out of the way first? I don't know. Maybe they worked really far ahead, clearly. But yeah, man, the what on our on our pre-production call for other shows, we were like, man, it's really going to suck if all we have is Logan Wilson and some stuff that happened on Monday.

2:30And that was not the case at all. I'm so excited. Let's dig into it. The big move of the day. There's two big, big moves, but I think the one that a little bit flashier considering where this team is right now and even the price they paid to get him sauce gardener to the Indianapolis Colts, the jets get 26 and 27 first round picks. They also get A.D. Mitchell as part of this trade. My first reaction to this on this Jets side of it was, didn't the Jets just sign Sauce Gardner to a massive extension before the season started? And so there are so many different layers to this. Let's just talk about initial reactions.

3:05When you first saw this deal come across, Derek, your first thoughts about it were what? I don't know if I would give that up for any corner not named Patrick Sertan. That was probably my first thought. And then I just had a weird thought of like, obviously the Jets have a number of reasons to fire sale people, but I did think it was curious that like, you bring in Aaron Glenn as a defensive guy, as specifically a defensive backs guy, you give Sauce Gardner the deal before the season, and then you trade him away. It just felt, it's just all of the circumstances around it just seemed very odd. It seems like they are very much just giving up on this version of the roster, which I get it.

3:39You kind of want to wash your hands clean, I guess, of what you had done with the last regime, but just a very bizarre trade all around for them, I thought. I don't know, like deals like that are supposed to signify that you're like a pillar of what's to come. Yes. Yes. Like, yes. Hey. And he's gone in two months later. This is going to suck, but we believe in you. And when we're done rebuilding everything else, it'll reap the benefits. And I mean, clearly that's not the case. My initial thought, because typically, and this was one of them where the trade comes, like the announcement that he's going to Indy happens before you see the full compensation.

4:12And I was like, let's go. Chris Ballard coming through, giving us something to talk about. The Colts are going for it. This is really exciting. And then I saw that it was two ones. And I was like, there might be, there might be a little too much dip on your chip. That like a little too much sauce, you think? Wow. That's why they pay you the big bucks, my friend. That's that. I mean, like, I don't want to hear it from you guys back there. I don't like the tone of those turtles was disrespectful. It's funny. We were joking about this. Like you kind of talk out of both sides of your mouth because Chris Ballard and the Colts have caught hell over so many years for being patient and not doing the splashy thing.

4:50And they finally do something really splashy. And I'm like, oh, is that a little irresponsible, Indianapolis? But hey, I mean, the secondary looks loaded. They're seven and two. If you really believe that this is this is the time, then then you might as well pony up. But it does feel like a big price to pay. The funniest thing about this to me, though, and it's like whatever we can say about if this is too expensive a deal or whatever. I do think it's kind of interesting and funny that this Colts team started the year with their cornerback to being Xavier Howard, who then retired. And now they're like, we got to trade whatever we can to get a different corner.

5:23This is actually you can even go back further than that. The Justin Wally torn ACL in the free in training camp. It's the meme with the domino. It's like we have Justin Wally tearing his ACL. and now, Justin, we'll get to all the Colts implications in a second. It leads to the sauce trade. It also means that Daniel Jones is now the quarterback of the Colts moving forward. Yes. It's likely. Let's take the Jets side of this first because I think the Jets side of it is a little bit simpler for this deal specifically. I was recording with Nate on Football 301 when we were talking about the trade at first.

5:54And my first thought if you're the Jets in this situation is, like you said, you can't turn down two first-round picks for any single player. Like I just don't think you can do that unless they're like a Micah Parsons or miles Garrett sort of player I think that return when you're in a position where the jets are where you're a one-win team Anything should be on the table. I think you have to take that deal the quinn Williams part of it kind of Doesn't totally fall in line with that because they now they're clearly they were trying to tear it down a little bit So that complicates the thought a little bit, but I think from the jet side specifically on the sauce trade You do this they signed me the contract this offseason, but he only had like a 14 million dollar signing bonus And so it's not as if you've given him all of this money that precludes you from making this sort of trade when you get a king's ransom for it.

6:36So I think that's enough on the jet side. On the Colts side of this, now this is where things get like extremely interesting, right? And so let me try, like I'm with you to an extent where I think this is a ton to give up for one player. And I think some of the downstream ramifications are potentially frightening from the Colts perspective. And I think we can talk about all of that. Let me try to play devil's advocate just a tiny bit. Okay? Please do. Because this is a contract that had already been signed, and you are not the one giving this deal to a player, there are certain costs associated with it that you're not going to have to deal with.

7:11So for the next two years against the cap, the Colts will pay Sauce Gardner in 2026 $9.5 million against the cap, and then$21 million against the cap in 2027. That's not that bad, right, for a top five corner. It's actually a pretty good price. It gave up two first round picks to get that contract, but that goes without saying. When you look at players around the league right now, and Colts have$50 million in cap space heading into next year, they will likely be on a quasi-rookie quarterback timeline because I'm sure they're not going to pay Daniel Jones very much. Free agent classes are shrinking to nothing.

7:43There are very few players in any given off season that are worth acquiring for a certain price. And so trying to use some of that money on proven players that are actually worth paying, that falls in line with what Chris Ballard has always said about free agency. And so I do think that this is a smart application of a little bit of financial flexibility, even though, again, you had to pay a lot to do it. So I do think that overall, the cost is not that exorbitant because he has been extended and because you already are dealing with a contract that is a set fixed cost. I don't know if I believe anything that I just said as it relates to that, but I'm just trying to figure out why this might not be quite as irresponsible as it seems on its face from the Colts.

8:23The money aspect doesn't really bother me. And you made this point before we started recording too, where, okay, you look at the Colts free agents. Obviously, you got to deal with Daniel Jones. I feel like that's line item one. And now, like you said, I feel like they're locked into that. I don't think you can trade two first round picks in consecutive years without committing to Daniel Jones as your quarterback of the future. I think this is a signal of that pretty clearly. Daniel Jones, Braden Smith, Alec Pierce, Nick Cross. Like these are all valuable pieces that you have to do something about.

8:53And you can even if you pay Daniel Jones and even with Sauce Gardner on the books, you can probably bring at least a couple of those guys back. But what have the Colts been about for Chris Ballard's entire tenure? Like they're a very draft and developed team. And the thing that we've talked about loving so much, particularly with the Colts offense, is just how multiple and versatile and deep they are. And that's all with homegrown guys. Like they successfully, other than obviously the quarterback being a huge exception, but the offensive line, the receivers, the new tight end, like they've done such a good job with that.

9:30And it looks really good, but I've done this long enough to know how quickly that can go sour. And maybe you lose Braden Smith in free agency or Quentin Nelson is becoming an older player. Maybe that changes. Maybe Jonathan Taylor, hopefully not, but maybe Jonathan Taylor deals with injury issues the way he did earlier in his career. Maybe Alec Pierce is the guy to go out the door. And all of a sudden, this thing that looks impossibly deep isn't anymore or couldn't be. And you don't have those two first round picks to to potentially replenish it. That scares me a little bit. And if they make a meaningful run in the playoffs this year, then that's a good problem to have.

10:09But I think something that looks really exciting right now can feel kind of hollow if the season doesn't go as far as you want it to. And then all of a sudden you're like, well, our greatest superpower is now a problem because we're not picking in the first round until, what, 2028? That's kind of where I'm at with this. Obviously, Sauce is a great player, right? But like, I think part of the calculus to me is like, if you're going to be the team that the Colts are going to be, need the defense to be fine. And then you're going to outscore whoever it is in the playoffs, 30 to 27 or whatever it is.

10:39And I understand Gardner will obviously help you towards that. I mean, he's a very good player. I, in my mind, when I was thinking of corners for the Colts, was like, can we trade for like a Lante Taylor? What does that do for you? It's better than the other corners that they have. And to me, like. But to what end? So you're trading a third round pick for Elante Taylor that you're very likely lighting on fire because what are the chances that Elante Taylor, who is a nickel, is going to give you the actual impact you need for it to be an appreciable difference? We do this all the time. It's like, oh, they spent a third round pick in the deadline.

11:10We never thought about that move again. This is a deadline move that they spent two first round picks on. We're going to think about this one. We're going to think about it all the time, for better or for worse, hopefully for better. I mean, I guess that's fair. I just like, I still do not understand. I just feel like this is a lot to give up for that kind of player. I would not do this. I want to be very clear about that before we dig into the conversation. I think this is a lot to give up for a volatile position when you have likely questions about your personality that are going to creep up over the next two years.

11:39The Colts are not a perfect team by any stretch. At the same time, these opportunities in the NFL are very few and far between. You don't always have an offense like this. like this is not like a team that like this is not the bears trading two first round picks for colio mac because it's like ah he seems like a pretty good player let's do this like for the most part constructing an offense where you're healthy where everything is humming where you're getting this level of quarterback play where you're getting this sort of performance from your play caller these opportunities don't come along that often you have a real chance potentially if you do enough on the margins combined with what this offense looks like maybe you can get hot and do it.

12:16Maybe. And if you think you can, even if on paper and if you look at the prices in a vacuum, this is not worth doing. I can get on board with that sort of mindset, especially for an organization that's been pretty boring when it comes to this stuff over the last four or five years. I'll tell you this. Having just said that I don't love it. If I was a Colts fan, they're in Germany against Atlanta this weekend. Then they're off. They have a bye week. So Sauce will be acclimated. He should be ready to go by the time week 12 comes around. You go to Arrowhead, presuming good health with Charverius Ward, Sauce Gardner, Kenny Moore, Cam Bynum.

12:56I'll throw in Nick Cross because I love the guy. I'd be pumped. I'm in if I'm a Colts fan. I'm saying, let's go. Let's see what we can do against the Kansas City. I think there's nothing wrong with being excited about this right now. and maybe they catch fire and this is just a dream season nobody saw coming like the 99 Rams. But if it's not that, how much will you look back at this later if it doesn't work out? I think there's a better chance it's not that. I think there's a better chance we look at this from two years from now and be like, oh man, it would have been great if the Colts had those two first round picks.

13:29At the same time, I don't think I really care. I think I'm on board with how fun this is and I'm on board with them saying, you know what, we're going to go for it rather than worrying about our job security two years from now. It's easy to say that when you can daydream about the America's game documentary that they make about the 2025 Colts where they win the Super Bowl. But if they fall woefully short in the divisional round and it turns out that the Chiefs are still just this inevitable force, then then I don't know. I think that changes the math. for me. Honestly, it does. Scared money doesn't make money though, I guess.

14:08If they lose to the Chiefs, I think it's fine because the Chiefs are the Chiefs. If they end up running into somebody else and lose, then it's like this is complete disaster. So let me, one more devil's advocate point. I think a lot of this, them not having the draft capital to chase another quarterback solution, us thinking like this is a one-year proposition for them to do this. What if Daniel Jones is just Baker Mayfield? Also fair. What if our opinion of Daniel Jones is being colored too much by what he used to be and not what he has been this year. In the same way, it has been for a lot of these reclamation quarterbacks where we were too slow to appreciate the fact that this was not a blip.

14:43They actually are materially different players. That also makes me wonder what deal Daniel Jones gets in the spring. I think it has to be the Baker Mayfield deal. I think that, and that plays into, again, I think this is another like calculus when it comes to some of the structural considerations with this. I think we have not fully come to understand what team building looks like with the mid-tier quarterback contract. We don't have enough examples. It's a relatively new phenomenon. So we only have Baker and now essentially we have Sam and then we had Gino. Those are the only three that we really have.

15:16And I think in a lot of ways, and we'll do plenty of talking about this over the course of the rest of the season, kind of fascinated by it. I do think it's a bit of an inefficiency. I think if you can get Daniel Jones on like a three-year$100 million deal and he can be playing on a 15 million dollar contract next year that's a lot that's not a lot of money to be allocating for the level of quarterback play they would be getting so we play this level again we spent 15 years chasing the rookie quarterback deal and now we're about to start chasing that guy after he gets to his second team you necessarily have to chase it i just think that if you find it if you stumble onto it there is real value to be had from it well this goes back to like the money of the quarterback doesn't matter it's just like can he play but the money does matter but like it It kind of matters, but ultimately it comes back to, did you find a guy who can play?

16:02That's all that matters. I disagree. I think it matters. The money of the quarterback doesn't... You could pay Patrick Mahomes against the cap like$70 million and you would be okay. The problem is when you get outside of the top six guys, all of them for the most part, whether you're good or not, if you are the guy that just got an extension, Jordan Love, Trevor Lawrence, whatever, we don't have to have that conversation now. They all get paid the same. like quarterbacks eight through 17 if they are guys who just get extensions all make the same amount of money yeah so if you're getting quarterback 16 play but you're paying 20 million dollars a year less to get it that has real significant value it helps a little bit i just think it's like a little bit overstated it's like if the guy is good then everything else starts to look kind of rosy.

16:49I disagree. I mean, if you can get like the type of play we've seen from Daniel Jones or Baker Mayfield at the beginning of the year for that much of a discount, and it depends on the team, right? It's what you do with the savings that you're getting. And if you maximize that, like that's how you wind up in a situation where it feels like you're cheating because you're just like, you're not supposed to have. That's how you can pay Sauce Gardner. Yeah. that 20 million dollars is like that's the money in the couch cushion for sauce gardner let's talk about the other jets trade here the jets trade quinn williams to the dallas cowboys for a 2027 first round pick and a 2026 second round pick this is one i get the sauce to the colts trade i get it from both sides i'm not sure i get this one quite as much from the cowboys perspective.

17:41What is the thought process here? Is it like we need to fix the defense now because we think that we're competitive. Okay. What, what did you have before this? I don't want to step into the mind of Jerry Jones. You know what? Actually I will, I will meet you here as, as a, you're the Jerry whisperer here. You understand him more than I do. All right. And this is what I said on, on Twitter before we went live. Let me state right at the beginning that I just simply would have kept and paid Micah Parsons. Okay. I'm, this is, this is me. Quick caveat here that I think is important to point out. I would have paid Micah Parsons 18 months ago.

18:17Sure. So he would not be making $47 million a year. That's an option by the way. Cowboys fans that are vocal about this seem to be forgetting that part of it. Wonderfully said. And as long as we're doing this, all the guys that they rushed to pay with the savings they got from Micah would just were awful on Monday night football. So that's worth saying. Anyway, I'm paying Micah Parsons. I'm keeping him. But But if you are the Cowboys and you have decided that one player is not worth the$47 million a year that you dictated he was worth by waiting, and that was Jerry's whole thing, right, was we can get a handful of guys who are maybe not Micah, but good for what it costs to pay Micah Parsons.

18:58And I said this too, again, if we're taking them at face value and Jerry Jones does not deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point, but I think when you get two first round picks from Green Bay and you have four first round picks total to work with, knowing all of that capital is there, you can't just count on the draft gods to smile on you and gift you with another all pro player, right? Like the, oh, it could even be a boat thing. Like you can't do that. You have to, if Micah Parsons is not going to be part of your plan, you have to do something to ensure that another all pro player is entering your team build.

19:34So this is the way they do it. And they go, what they spend a first round pick next year and a second round pick this coming year to get a really, really good, really, really disruptive defensive tackle. not saying I'm completely there, but it is a, it is a fraction of Micah Parsons' salary and that I'm sure that is the logic. And I really do love the fact that the Cowboys managed to do this without giving up a one in the coming draft. It's a 2027 one. So you add Micah Parsons into your team and still kind of have that war chest of, Hey, when the spring comes around, we still have two first round picks.

20:13We can draft two guys. We can trade. We can use one of them to trade up and get somebody we love that much. That's my overall logic. Would I still rather have Micah Parsons? Yeah, I would. But where they've landed, I can see the vision. Looking at the numbers. So Micah Parsons has a$19.2 million cap in 2026, a 27-ish million dollar cap in 2027. So that's$46 million combined over those two years. Quinton Williams over the next two years will make$29 million combined. And so you have$17 million in like surplus money to use on other players other than Quinton Williams. And it's not just the first round pick.

20:50It's a first and a second. Yes. So that's a lot to give up. It's not that much different than what you got in the Micah Parsons trade, especially because you're trading with the better of the two first round picks in 2027. So it's essentially a fun wrinkle, by the way. Like you don't hear that often where it's just like, the better of the picks will go to New York, whichever it is. The Bears did that with the Roquan Smith trade where they decided they were trading their first round pick and their second round pick and not the, I can't remember which team it was when they did that. And I was very mad about it.

21:16But essentially, it's the difference in a first and second round pick in value, which is essentially like a second or third round pick, and$17 million. That's the practical difference in those two things. Is that worth not having Michael Parsons? No. Especially not when... They burned that bridge already, you know what I mean? I'm with you. 18 months ago, I would have paid Michael Parsons. I would have given him a blank check and said, take whatever you want. But I'm kind of with Dave that if we're just living in the post-Michael Parsons world. I'm not willing to do that. I'm not either, but this is me trying to make my devil's case, my devil's argument for this.

21:50I'm kind of okay with the way that they pieced it together. Quentin Williams is a really good player. I think Kenny Clark has been fine. Logan Wilson is not good anymore probably, but he is better than the other line. He's better than what they're trotting out there right now. The Logan Wilson part of this is inconsequential to me. It's pretty inconsequential, but it's something that they didn't have there. Because I think the entire argument for the Quinton Williams side of this is not just a 20-25 move. No. This is a multi-year move, and I think that's why it's almost justifiable. And that is actually why I do like keeping the two first-round picks for this year, is you get to like, to me, the DAC window is probably like the next two years.

22:23And so if you have whatever these, you know, bringing in Quinton Williams, you brought in Kenny Clark, now you have two first-round picks for next year. It's like, okay, this is supposed to be our little, we can kind of figure this out of the next two. next two years. So we'll see. I'm not trying to sell anybody on Logan Wilson being some math changing addition, but he's under contract for two more years after this year. I think you can at least play him, which is more than you're getting from Kenneth Murray and whatever else the Cowboys are doing at linebacker. You can at least play him. Linebacker is not a blinking red light that you have to do something about anymore, which is look we're talking about bleak things right now but that's how bad it is for the dallas defense so i i don't dislike that either i'll say it one more time i'd rather have micah parsons but to come out of this with you're at least going to pick twice in the first round this year quinnon williams and kenny clark at defensive tackle uh donovan azaraku looks i'd love to see what donovan azaraku looked like with micah parsons on the line by the way i think i've said that four or five times, but I can, I can see the vision.

23:31I just, I think it's, um, it's very galaxy brand, you know, where you're just, that's where I land with this. You're just doing 18 things to be good on defense when you could just have one of the few math changing players in the entire league instead. I think it was unhappy, happy endings, which is show I absolutely loved. That was on ABC. And there was a, there was a line where one of the characters was like, I want this as part of the official record. And for the last time, there's no official record. And it's like, then why are we doing any of this? That is my thought about where we've landed with all this.

24:03It's like, why did we do any of this if this is the place where we were ultimately going to land up? And the other thing I think needs to be said is we're talking so much about what you can do with savings from a team that hates spending money. Yeah, exactly. That's$17 million. We feel good about how that$17 million is going to be spent. They're second in the league in cap space, or they were before the Quinn and Williams trade. They were second in the league in cap space, and they knew that they probably didn't want to pay Micah. They didn't do the trade in the spring when they could have gotten more for him.

24:37They didn't use any of the savings on any other players. They came into the year with this as their defense. It all sounds good until you remember that the Cowboys are not going to do shit with the money anyway. They're going to spend that on a George Pickens extension. which will come after they franchise tag him and go back and forth with him and his agent for 15 months all right before we move on we are going to take a quick break

25:05all right let's dig into some of these other deals we just mentioned the jacoby myers trade let's kick right to that one the jags get jacoby myers for fourth and sixth round picks he'll be free agent after the season so that's a pretty good haul for a guy who's going to be hitting the market. We'll see if they bring back Jacoby Myers. The fact that they have Brian Thomas Jr., the fact that they have Travis Hunter already on the books moving forward. Seems like the likelihood of them bringing back Myers as the history agency probably a little bit lower. What do you think about the Jacoby Myers move landing in Jacksonville, Derek?

25:37I mean, for the Raiders, I kind of like this because your season is there. Who cares? Yeah, it's already in a little bit of who cares. And so you get a fourth and a sixth round. You take whatever resources you can get. But I'm a little bit of two minds for the Jaguars. First of all, a lot of resources to be investing in that position. That part of it is frustrating. But my biggest issue that I've had with this receiving core really the entire year, especially now with weirdly Brenton Strange out, they just do not have very many like adults in the room there. Like Brian Thomas does some frustrating stuff.

26:05Travis Hunter is like playing both ways. So he's been a little bit up and down. It's really just been like Parker Washington being in the right spot all the time. And that's kind of it. And so for them to bring in a guy like Jacoby Myers, who I trust that he'll be in the right spot and catch the football. That's a pretty good spot. For a second, I thought you were going to say Jacoby Myers doesn't qualify as an adult. Oh, no, I'm saying I needed him to do that. Finally, the Jags have a guy who will catch the ball over the middle of the field. Just do that. He's just good. He's just better Parker Washington.

26:31He's just bigger than what Jacoby Myers is. Barnwell did this. He does my dirty work all the time because one of my initial responses to this is like, man, they've invested a lot in receiver over the last couple of years. Bill Barnwell Jaguars over the last two years, a receiver, first round pick on Brian Thomas, two first round picks on Travis Hunter, three years,$39 million for Gabe Davis, one year, $10 million for Deami Brown, a six round pick for Tim Patrick. I don't think you had to include that Barnwell fourth and a sixth round pick for Jacoby Myers. It's a lot of draft capital to get to the end of the, get to the middle of the season after everything that you had spent.

27:05And your conclusion is we probably need another receiver is a tough place to have landed. I get how it happened, but still that's a lot to have invested at one single position. It's a tough place to have landed, but I appreciate a team that's going to keep investing to help the freaking quarterback instead of like the, the other approach where it's like, well, we did this and this and this for you, like make it work, Mr. 50, whatever million dollar quarterback, instead of being like, all right, well, we need a guy who can run a dig and actually catch the ball. And I, that's what I think Jacoby Myers will do for them.

27:38And I'm looking forward to it. My, and I'll be very honest here. My reaction to this was that I hated it until I went and looked at what the Jags actually have available. Cause you're like a fourth and a sixth for half a year of Jacoby Myers feels like a lot until you refresh yourself on what the Jags have. Are you aware? Like draft pick wise, what do you mean? Like what they still have after doing this trade. Cause you see that they sent two picks to Vegas and you're like, oh, that's a sizable chunk of your draft class. They have 11 picks after doing this. Oh, they got the Tesla trade. They got third round picks from they traded back at one point to pick up one a little bit later, even with not having a one from the Travis Hunter trade that they did with Cleveland after Jacoby Myers, they have a in next year's draft.

28:26They have a two, three threes. They still have a four. They have two fives. They still have a six and they have three sevens. And the minute I saw that, I was like, okay, I don't give a shit. This is great. Like you're going to pick 13 times in the draft. No, go get a useful receiver who can help you. You're over 500. I don't really mind the price to give up that. I don't really care about it. They have a fourth in the Cam Robinson trade. And that's kind of what we've always lauded like Howie for, right? Like you just make so many moves and you have a million picks. You have to just throw shit around.

28:56James Gladstone seems like a madman. That's my initial impression on this guy. just with the amount of trading that the Jags have been doing since he got there. That's kind of, I think there's a lot of different things we can point to of like, all right, why is this happening? Like, why are we getting more active trade deadlines? Why are teams being a little bit more aggressive? And I think just younger GMs willing to do this stuff is part of the calculus. Like most guys that are truly die in the wool scouting types that are like lifers that are maybe a little bit more risk averse. There aren't that, there are fewer of those guys in these positions.

29:29And so I think that's one of the reasons that we see a little bit more aggressiveness this time of year. Yeah, I can't say it's shocking that Gladstone came up under the Rams regime. Have they traded any picks? Who? The Rams. Just a couple. Has that happened over the last five or so years? I can just remember one or two times. Here or there. Said a fourth and a sixth was a lot to give up for half a year of Jacoby Myers. The Seahawks give up a fourth and a fifth for half a season of Rashid Shahid. He is going to Seattle. I love this. It's awesome. This is my favorite thing that happened on Tuesday.

29:59I think in so many different ways, this makes perfect sense for where the Seahawks are. And I was talking to Nate about it a little bit earlier when we were breaking it down on his show, but I think this is a moment where you look at what Seattle's passing offense is right now and you think, well, this is the best passing offense in the league by DVOA. Like, is this really where they needed to allocate resources? In my opinion, this is a way to kind of protect yourself against some of the situational regression that's going to be coming, right? And so if you're running a bunch of two-man play action routes and you're scheming up everything for JSN on first and 10, you don't necessarily need Rashid Shahid.

30:33When it's third and seven in the divisional round against the Rams, you would need Rashid Shahid based on how the rest of your receiving core is built. And so that's why this one's very easy for me to get behind beyond like the bombs that we're going to see from Sam Darnold to Rashid Shahid, which there are going to be many of them, I think, over the next eight weeks. And there's no, so like with the Jacoby Myers to the Jaguars thing, there's a little bit of like, okay, how are they going to fit him in? Where are they going to work with him? It's skill set redundancy with some of the guys they already have, which is one more useful player.

31:01And like with Rashid Shahid, we know what he looks like in the Clint Kubiak offense. He played for him last year. Like we know, like this is a coach who's bringing him in. He knows what this guy is capable of. And so I think we've all had a lot of fun watching the Jaguars funnel like 70 % of their offense, it feels like to JSN. but to your point when you really get down to it at the end of the season into the playoffs teams are going to be able to game plan not necessarily game plan jsn completely out of the game but it's going to be a little bit harder to allow him to fully take over the game this is why you want to rashid shaheed where we can at least stretch the field maybe open up a little bit more space for jsn maybe we can use jsn to get rashid shaheed some sort of one-on-one and so we've obviously seen that darnold can be a very effective downfield thrower and so So now that they can add Rashid Shahid to, to me, like purely as a just like run down the field guide sprinter, he's probably the best in the league.

31:52I think this is an awesome addition for this team. I do think he's more than that, though. Oh, he is. Yeah, for sure. Yes. Like he's not just like a go ball guy. He's a more multifaceted player than that, but the giddy up is the selling point. It's so funny to think in the offseason, it was like, where's the juice coming from on this offense? And like JSN's been incredible, but that's not his game. Torrey Horton has been a fun revelation. And between him and Shahid now, that's OK, you got it. That's great. Torrey Horton's kind of like, oh, this is interesting and cool. It's like a downfield field stretcher.

32:26Like Rashid Shahid just cuts right to the point. Torrey Horton. He's the name brand version of Torrey Horton. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And this doesn't preclude Torrey Horton from becoming that over the next two years. I think this is another one of those. we're kind of close. And I think justifiably, we think we're kind of close. Like this is a gamble that is worth making. This is the type of player that can help you run game too. Just like, you know, teams are going to play a guy like that a certain way. And fourth and a fifth, I get it. No, I'm not even going to say it. Like I don't even think that's steep.

32:57I think like for half a season of a guy like this, when you're as good as the Seahawks have looked, you figure that out later. And hopefully this is a situation where if he's really successful here. You mentioned his familiarity with Kubiak. Maybe that would help you re-sign him in the offseason assuming he's not so successful that he's breaking the bank on his next deal. I like this from a lot of different angles. Let's dig into some of the action from today from somebody who has been mired in it. Diana Rossini joining us right now to help us sort through all of the madness from trade deadline day.

33:36Alright, so I gotta admit, 24 hours ago, I was talking about it. I was writing about it, TV, radio, wherever, wherever someone would allow me to be, uh, saying that I just didn't expect much. I knew a lot of teams were willing to take swings. I had no idea it was going to be like this. And I can tell you, people around the league feel the same way. Uh, because obviously when you're gathering this information, you're always asking the same thing, which is like, you know, what are you expecting? Like, what do you think this is going to be like? And everyone kept saying the same thing. It's all smoke.

34:10The sizzles way better than the steak. There's not a lot of good players available. And I'll just start with perhaps the best conversation I had this morning over text message with someone in Indianapolis. And they just kept saying corner, corner, corner. And they've been pretty consistent with that over the last few weeks. And my response to it was, well, you're not really going to get a lot of good corners because from what I understand, there's not a lot that are available. I did not know how fully committed the New York Jets were to moving Sauce Garner. I knew things were not perfect there.

34:45I knew that this wasn't like the best situation, but we understand the skill set that he brought the Jets. And when he's good, he's great. and Chris Ballard here takes a big swing and is able to get this deal done. And I think my immediate thought, guys, when I saw this happen was, oh, my gosh, Lou Ataruma must be doing backflips right now. I mean, this is a coordinator who left Cincinnati after getting fired because, look, let's face it, like I think he did his best with what he had and it ran out. The magic ran out because he just didn't have the roster. I think that the Cincinnati Bengals had in, you know, the AFC championship game in years past.

35:29So, look, the Colts defense, they made the corner position a priority and they filled it. And this doesn't really feel very Colts-like to me. And I think that's probably why it caught me a little. And from the Jets' perspective, you know, by the way, most of their contingent was, you know, attending nick mengel's funeral this afternoon um so all this stuff was going and there was just a lot of communication things happening behind the scenes uh and obviously just such a sad day for the jets organization um and but but also in respect to the games some good moves here uh which i know we'll get into in a second here but i think my biggest takeaway robert from from soon as this deal got done and it was official and all the sources confirm it um was i know that there's not a deal for Daniel Jones done yet.

36:19Okay. So I've talked to Indy about this for the last few weeks of, you know, have you started, have conversations begun and, and they're pretty transparent. Like, look, we really love him. He's going to be the future here, but we're just not ready to do it just yet. So you could say what you want, but your actions tell you how you feel and outside of a contract, this tells you how they feel with what they're willing to give up in terms of draft capital in order to make such a big trade like this. You know, There's no doubt. I think that was one of my first responses. My first thoughts is that we know who the quarterback for the Annapolis Colts is going to be next year and probably moving forward because you don't make this move if you don't think that's going to be the case.

36:56And so from the Colts perspective, I understand this. You think you have a real shot this year. You had a huge glaring need there. He's a cost control player for the next couple of seasons. All of that tracks to me, even if it's a very aggressive move, you know, when they made the DeForest Buckner trade a few years ago, that was one first round pick. This is two. Like this is just a different level of ambition, but considering where the Colts are and the opportunity they see for themselves, I get that. I'm curious about this from the Jets perspective, because both Quinnen Williams and Sauce Gardner, Diana, are players that just got extensions from this team.

37:30Right. And so you look at this and it does feel like they were building block pillar type players for a new regime, especially Sauce. Like they committed to him after this group was hired. And so I'm really curious, just from a mindset perspective, like, what do you think this says about what the Jets want to do, who the Jets want to be, and even like what the future of the coaching staff looks like? Like these are a this is a everything is on the table in terms of who we are as an organization sort of trade. And so I'm just curious of what some of those conversations have looked like based on the reporting that you've done.

38:05Well, don't you feel lied to? A little bit. I just talked to the owner a week ago, a week and a half ago at the owner's meetings about, um, it's funny. The last thing I asked, he answered all the questions I had. And the last question I asked him was, can you name the pillars of the New York jets for me? Like who are the main players that are on this roster that you want to be part of the New York jets organization for a long period of time? And he wouldn't answer it, which was weird. Cause he answered every, We got into everything. He's like, you know, I'm good here. We're done. And that was the end of the interview, which now I reflect back on it.

38:41There's a reason because I think he was open for business the whole time. And Robert, your recall on contracts specifically is better than pretty much anyone I know who does this for a living. and I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but I can't remember the last time a player got a contract extension off a rookie deal and then traded just a few months later. Like I was Googling it. I was asking a couple other GMs in football. No one really had an answer for me. So if you have one, let me know. But to answer your question while you rack your brain there. Look, I think the Jets know that they need to make some moves here to tear this thing down in order to go get the quarterback that they need and to and to rebuild it.

39:27And I think that's what's catching everyone off guard is I don't think anyone thought that the Jets were ready to start it over. We all kind of assume that they were OK with a couple of these pieces. They just needed to get the coaching staff down. But obviously, based on the performance that we see what it says to me is they're willing to take a gamble roll the dice with Aaron Glenn being the head coach um and Darren Moogie running the show behind the scenes it's almost like they're more invested in that vision than they are with the squad that's in front of them and that's what it says to me um I will say just getting responses around football from teams that were either A, in on Quinnen, or B, just getting thoughts.

40:14Most were really surprised by the Quinnen-Williams trade. I can tell you even from over the weekend, I was reaching out to sources that were interested in Quinnen because Quinnen had asked for a trade for the last few weeks. It was kind of kept hush-hush. He just has not been happy there. Kind of hard to, right, especially with all the losing. So the fact that they were able to get what they got in return from Dallas, I think is just such a big win from New York because I think most teams were not willing to give up the same type of compensation. I don't think the Dallas Cowboys had that much competition.

40:46The 49ers were out. The New England Patriots were out. Buffalo was out. Detroit was out. The Colts were out on a lot of these players early, which let me add to that in the AFC East specifically of all the I mean, this happens in all the divisions, but definitely the AFC East today. I found that the Jets were not willing to do any trades within their division. So that was interesting, too, knowing that, you know, the Bills were they were circling the wagons and so were the New England Patriots. So I just think this tells us that they are hoping they are giving the keys to this front office and to this head coach to say, take this over and show us your vision because you got plenty of picks to do it.

41:29I mean, I can't imagine. Has a team ever screwed up having three first round picks in the same draft and not like completely turned around the franchise? Hmm. I don't know. The New York Jets. It was three years ago, which is just so crazy that we're just like playing the same movie all over again. Look, I give Woody Johnson credit and I don't say that a lot from a forget it. Let's just this isn't working. Let's just let's just start over. That has got to be tough to swallow, to go, we got it wrong again, you know, and to do this. And for Dallas, look, Jerry said to my face, we're not going for a pass rusher, but I want to make some moves.

42:08I half believed him. I thought he'd go for a pass rusher. You know, I knew he was he wanted to do it. So, look, I don't I don't really completely understand why they're doing this right now. Now, I'm not sure if this was the right time to make these moves for Dallas. But I think with those picks just sitting there, there's got to be a little ego involved, especially with that trade with Micah. Because, Robert, let me ask you, do you think the Dallas Cowboys are better with Quinn and Williams now and making the trades that they did than if they had Micah Parsons? No, we just went through that whole thing.

42:44Even if you look at some of like the access savings and some of the draft capital, like it just isn't a big enough gap for me to justify not having Micah Parsons. Same. It's hard to find people around football to say, you know, you know what's better, you know, this scenario over Micah Parsons. But, you know, they're going to sell it to us and make us all believe that it's such a good move for the Dallas Cowboys. And we'll see how it pans out here. The sauce thing is interesting. We were talking about this earlier today, just looking at some of the numbers of the deal. It was a$14 million signing bonus, right?

43:13That's the only money that they paid out immediately. He had, I think, a minimum base this year. And so the Colts really, or the Jets really paid like essentially$15 million. And having him be under contract and having that contract exist allows you to get two first round picks for it. So in reality, it's like, you kind of paid the 15 million to get two first round picks, which you would do every single time. And so I think that's totally okay. Maybe the conversation we should be having is why aren't more teams doing this move? Like they kind of faked us out, you know? And look, I talked to some people in New York over the last few months, even just about the dynamic there in the locker room and the setup of this roster.

43:51And look, it's not like it's anything new with New York, but it's not good. It hasn't been good. The culture's not good. They're trying to fix it. And I do think Aaron Glenn's going to get a good shot to change it and make it his way and bring in his guys, right? This is always, it's just like football 101. Most of these guys are going to be invested in the guys that they draft and they coach up. And none of these are theirs. I'm curious, who is the guy that was not traded today that is most surprising to you? Somebody that you just expected to be on the move that didn't end up getting dealt. And I'm sure you're gonna be doing some digging about it, but who are a couple of those names that come to mind quickly for you?

44:28Yeah, so I feel like you're gonna be so annoyed with me and you're gonna probably call me after the show when I say this, but I think you'd be surprised how many players have requested trades over the last few weeks that just hasn't gotten out, right? Because it doesn't help the organization to leak it out because then the trade value changes. And unless the player really wants to stick his neck out there, he's not going to go public with it. But I again, I know it's annoying when I say that because you're like, well, who is it? Just just trust me that there's a lot more of that happening behind the scenes.

45:01And teams have been playing therapists over the last week or so on trying to cool the jets of a lot of these players that don't want to be there. But with that being said, Trey Hendrickson to me was someone I thought would get more bites as we got closer to the deadline. The asking price was a first rounder. I thought that they would move off it a bit. And I never really got the sense. I did have one team say that a discussion of a second rounder was happening, but it never really turned into anything serious. So the fact that trade didn't get moved from the Bengals perspective and the business side to it, I just think that was a miss.

45:38The 49ers were hunting for pass rushers. I mean, they were hunting for anyone on defense, actually. And they just I think they had to have a real, you know, moment of reflection of is this move that we do right now going to get us to the Super Bowl? Because that's the goal. That is have a 49ers thing. And I think that they were realistic about it and realized probably not, which stinks right to hear. But I admire those type of teams because they're they're down to earth. They're honest about it versus teams that lie and make these stupid moves to just act as a bandaid to get through the next few weeks.

46:18So it's not embarrassing. So it's not surprising the 49ers didn't make the move. But I know that they were trying. And the New England Patriots, they were taking some big swings. from what I understand. But they just lost out and just other teams were able to snag some players. So in terms of teams not doing more, New England's certainly one of them and the Lions as well. So AJ Brown is still a Philadelphia Eagle, though. That was one I was curious to see how that would pan out. And he stays there. It's always funny. We talk about like what drives these prices in trades and the idea of like you weren't willing to spend a second rounder to Cincinnati for Trey Hendrickson and Sauce Gardner went for two first round picks.

46:59Trey Hendrickson's 31 and he's a pending free agent and Sauce Gardner is 25 and he's under contract for the next four years. And so like, it's not that hard to figure out how some of these prices get dictated. But I think somebody would be surprised where you wouldn't give up that for Trey Hendrickson, but you'd give up that for Quinton Williams or whatever. But the cost control and the age is like very real when we're talking about these sort of things. At least teams think that. Let me ask you guys, was there any trade today where the price made you go, whoa, like, like the Dallas Cowboys won that one.

47:29Like, did anything really stick out to you from one team, maybe perhaps, you know, getting a little bit more than what we would have assumed? I mean, we talked about it, but as highly as I might love Sauce Gardner, like you get offered two first round picks. There's a crazy price. It's a short list of players. I'm saying no to that. Yeah. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, there was a couple like Jacoby Myers. There were a couple of players, even Jermaine Johnson, they were asking for a second rounder. Brees Hall, third rounder, right? There were a couple prices that I was curious about from the team perspective of like, why is that so high?

48:08It's Brees Hall's going to be a rental. You haven't extended him. What is the plan for him? Move him. And he doesn't want to be there. So, which by the way, are you following the Chets players tweets right now? I mean, the Brees Hall thing all day has been great. Like he clearly just - The saddest little story. I don't even have to read my kids a book tonight. I'm just going to show them all the Jet Clans. It's just like the great little story of the worst fairy tale, unfortunately for them. It's just a hard spot for all of them to be in, as it's very obvious they are rebuilding. We'll let you go spend some time with your kids because you clearly have been pounding the pavement all day.

48:44Diana, sincerely appreciate the time. Always great to chat with you. We'll do it again soon. I can't wait, guys. Congratulations on the show, the set. It looks fantastic. Love you guys. appreciate it see ya alright before we move on we're gonna take one more quick break

48:59let's run through some of the smaller ones here before we get out for the day we broke down most of the Eagles moves already obviously they trade Jalen Phillips they trade for Jalen Phillips to deal a third rounder to Miami in 2026 they have an extra third rounder from the Hassan Rai trade a couple years ago so this is another team where they're gonna be making a ton of picks either way and I think Phillips just perfectly fits where they're at we talked about this yesterday I don't really have anything different to say than what we talked about in the hangover. I spent a chunk of my morning watching him back on, you know, NFL plus.

49:29And I was just like, yes, I like this a lot for Philadelphia. I don't know. I'd be leery about like the long-term considering his injury history, but that's a problem for another day. You're pushing to try to repeat. And I think he can help you try to do that. Sticking in the pass rusher market, the bears traded six, excuse me, The Bears trade a sixth and get a seventh back, also with Joe Tryon Shainka from the Browns. This is just that we need bodies move. After losing down to Odangbo, they needed some presence on the edge based on how thin they were because even some of the depth they have there are, Austin Booker is mostly a pass rusher at this point.

50:05So one capable run defending body on the edge for the Bears was a necessary component based on the Odangbo injury. And I'm glad that that's all the Bears did. like that you don't need to do anything more than that i agree yeah and this is like please don't get too excited about being over 500 in november this is i'm ryan poles tends to do that and so i'm okay with the fact that they didn't do much yeah this was just dio goes down and it's like who is the 265 pound edge player that's all it is responsible speaking of uh certain archetypes uh in trading you know having filling a need for a certain archetype the baltimore ravens do the most Baltimore Ravens thing possible and trade a fourth round or fifth round pick to the Titans could become a fourth round pick of the conditions on that for Draymond Jones.

50:50I mean, this is just, it doesn't get more Ravens than this. Let's get a physical edge setting defensive end outside linebacker to add to the mix here. I love this. And that's the same. So Derek and I highlighted the Titans Rams game on the hangover when I filled in all the way back in week two. I'll just be honest that was the last time I took a close look at the Titans defense so I spent a chunk of my night last night watching Draymond Jones and I was like yeah still good still really good still really violent and physical and adding him to a Ravens team that all of a sudden has life again I'm a big big fan of that just like his play style how he can help their defense I'm feeling I'm feeling pretty frisky about where the Ravens are right now the Ravens defense is always better when they have this guy all the way back to like Pernell McPhee's Adarius Smith was this they had Jadavion Clowney for a little bit and now it's Jermont Jones like them just having this bigger body we can use him as like a spinner to attack guards we can set the edge like just having this guy especially when edge depth and size I think has been their issue like I really like this realistically for them and where they were at this is probably the best move that they can make other than that you feel pretty good about where the defense yeah like if Roquan's gonna be what he's been the last couple weeks like Kyle Hamilton's gonna be your you're a problem solver Malachi starts coming along it's like okay I can start to see the vision for this defense starting to play like we thought they were supposed to be the other smaller deals we've talked about you know the ones that happened a little bit deeper about a week ago Roger McCreary goes to the Rams we talked about that Keon White goes to the Niners that's like the type of deal from the Niners I think you absolutely can make where you know he's going to be under contract for a couple years you gave up pretty much nothing to get him you're betting on your defensive line coaching and infrastructure to get more out of him I think if you want to just line him up in like a four down front and ask him to go, he's capable of doing that.

52:39And so he's somebody can't wait to, I'm still intrigued by his skillset. And I think this is the correct landing spot to get the most out of him. And then Kyle Duggar goes from the Patriots to the Steelers. Did you catch the right under the wire deadline? I sure did. This, this deal feels like the offensive line version of the Joe, Joe try and shank a deal where the chargers are like, ah, we, we need a body. And that's what Trevor Penning is. That's the thing because they trade for him and I'm like, where are they even going to play him? Because they could reasonably play him at either guard or tackle, but I don't feel that good about him at tackle.

53:10It's just like, I do not know what they plan on doing with him. Beggars can't be choosers. I suppose at this point. I think, again, the markets for these positions are really funny, but a couple things you can never have enough of if you're trying to compete, offensive linemen, corners. The only reason an outside corner of any sort of value got traded at the trade deadline is because the Colts gave up two first round picks to go get that player. And I think not having a lot of offensive linemen moved is in a similar vein. Yeah. You'd have to be nuts to have ambition for where you're going and want to get rid of a useful offensive lineman.

53:44That sounds mean to Trevor Penning. He's useful, but yeah, that's a deal that needed to happen for the Chargers. This is such an easy one where it's like, first round pedigreed player. We liked enough of his tape coming out. Can he be better for us than he was for them, which did we mention really quickly? I know we're wrapping this up, but two two big draft picks getting thrown into the major trades. A.D. Mitchell is a jet now, which I made this joke on Twitter, like when a guy drops the ball before the goal line, every angry dad in America is like, get him off the team right now. And usually that's unrealistic.

54:20And that's exactly what the Colts did. Like he played 28 more snaps after that, that day. And then they traded him to the worst team in football. And then Mozzie Smith obviously did not live up to what the Cowboys wanted him to be. And they throw him into the Quinn and Williams trade. Like, well, you're going to need somebody to play D tackle. You can have our first round pick who didn't work out. A.D. Mitchell is the player I will be hanging on to much longer than I should. I'm going to tell you guys that right now. It's going to be 20, 29. And I'm going to be like, I don't know, man. I still think A.D.

54:51Mitchell can work out. Every week for the rest of the year, Robert's going to vouch for the Jets on Sicko Street just to have an excuse to watch A.D. Mitchell. Speaking of, our Week 10 preview will be coming your guys' way later this week on Friday. Got a full slate of shows otherwise, so please be checking out your regularly scheduled athletic football show in addition to this fun little bonus. For now, that is all we've got. We'll talk to you guys soon. Appreciate you listening. We'll see you next time.