Week 12 Recap: Cowboys stun Eagles, Rams crush Bucs, Chiefs get much-needed win, Ravens take over first in AFC North, and more

0:02Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays week 12 in the NFL was a doozy we dug into all of it with me, Derek Klassen, and Dave Hellman. Started things off with a Rams blowout win from Sunday Night Football. Talked about a couple of performances that grabbed our attention with the Chiefs staying in the AFC playoff race and the Dallas Cowboys with a massive comeback win over the Eagles. Also chatted a little Bears, who now sit at eight and three. A couple WTF performances from the Ravens, even though they won. Some strange decisions down the stretch in Jags Cardinals. We much to Derek's chagrin talked about JJ McCarthy because Dave wouldn't let us not do it.

0:44And then we also hit some things that made us feel romantic about football in week 12. So let's get to that conversation with me, Dave and Derek right now.

1:00Gentlemen, that was one hell of a Sunday in the NFL. I had a moment during the afternoon slate as it became clear that the Cowboys were at least going to keep this thing close and perhaps win it. And there was some weird shit happening in the Jags Cardinals game. And I just kind of had a smile on my face like tonight's going to be fun. We're going to have a lot of stuff to dig into tonight. They're not all this good, but I very much enjoyed week 12 in the NFL calendar. David, when the Sunday night game is that big of a stinker and you know that it's pretty much over with within 10 minutes of the, of the game starting and it was still that good of a day.

1:40Yeah. And, and they haven't all been this great, right? We had a three or four week stretch where it felt a little lackluster, but man, from beginning to end, this was, this was phenomenal. And yeah, it kind of, it crescendoed there in the second half of the late window where the Cowboys were storming back and Jags cards was stupid as hell and just a very very fun day and like for me other than like the games that we wanted to be good were like Colts Chiefs that ended up being pretty good um Eagles Cowboys ended up being really good so the games we wanted to be good other than the Sunday nighter were pretty good but then a lot of the other games that weren't supposed to be good you still had to keep an eye on like Patriots Bengals was really close Titans Seahawks stayed close.

2:22Giants Lions was almost a catastrophic loss for the Lions. Like it was even for the games that you thought maybe you could push to the side a little bit. We're still pretty entertaining. Yeah, absolutely. And we'll talk about the Sunday night game very briefly here. Typically, the way we do this with the Sunday night games is if the Sunday night game is one of our games of the week in the preview show, we're going to plan on hitting it in the recap show. I don't think we have to spend a ton of time on this one. The Rams continue to look like the best team in the NFL. They did whatever they wanted on offense throughout the entire first half.

2:54Like that's just one of those games. And I had a sneaking suspicion that it was going to feel like one of those outings where the Rams kind of had Todd Bowles on that defense on a string throughout this entire thing. And that's exactly what it felt like over the first two quarters. And the continued implosion of the Bucs passing game reaches a new low that ends with Baker Mayfield hurting his shoulder. We'll see how long he's out. But the Bucs season, it was kind of on the ropes coming into this game, considering how much the Panthers have gained ground. The Rams seem to be distancing themselves from everybody else in the NFC and potentially in the league.

3:26And Derek, that's just kind of how this one felt. The divergent pads of these teams, they kept trekking down those pads over the course of this game. Yeah, I think this to me was two things. Like, I understand the Bucs defense over the last couple of weeks has not played their best ball, especially given over the first, I think, like eight weeks of the season. They were like a top 10 unit. Stafford today just pitched like a truly perfect game I think he started the game 13 of 13 and his first thing completion was just because Tykee Smith had an incredible punch out uh on a throw into the flat and so like he was just he's one of those quarterbacks when he is on his day and just like really activated in in the rhythm there's just kind of nothing you can do about it and like Adams was making a number of good catches Puka was having a good game like it's just was kind of one of those days for them so this almost for the Bucks defense I was like just burn the tape and then game script wise I think because the Bucks passing game has struggled to find itself you know Baker's been up and down they're missing a lot of their best targets I think when you end up in a 14-0 game script because the Rams score on their opening drive and then you have the weird like Kate Auten kind of a fumble kind of an interception that gets ripped out of his hands by the defense and I think it was Kobe Durant ends up taking that one back this Bucks offense is just not really built to like throw themselves back into the game specifically against the Rams front that if you're in a pure pass script, all of these pass rushers are just going to get to the quarterback very quickly.

4:44And then their DBs, I think the one thing that these corners do really, really well is kind of like sit on top of routes and zone coverage and attack and close downhill. And well, if they know they're in pure pass game scripts and their defense, their defensive line is going to get home, they can just tee off on that all day. And that's how you get as many of the breakups as they did. I think that's a good way to kind of lay out the overall the script of how the game went. As soon as Kobe Durant scores that touchdown, my first reaction is, oh, this is over. I mean, as soon as that happens, it felt like it was going to be over.

5:12So they're already down 14, nothing. They get the ball back. And exactly like you're saying, Derek, on the third down, the Rams have like a five man pressure with a three man stunt on one side, a two man stunt on the other side. Kobe Durant gets there for the sack ends that drive. They punt the ball back. And then the Rams just walk down on that drive to make it 21, nothing Stafford Hicks, cannot a mump field on a backside dig, which that's, that's how, you know, it's that type of night. It was when those sorts of players are happening. He has a 12 personnel, like deep out to Devante for a chunk.

5:42They have a play action screen to Colby Parkinson. He checks to a duo insert run for 10 yards. And then he hits the high load of Parkinson for a touchdown. It's 21, nothing immediately. Like it just how easy it felt and how much you could just sense that the Rams had the game in the palm of their hand. If you're not playing a near perfect game against that version of this team, you're going to be in for a very long night. And the Bucks played far from a perfect game. Two thoughts, which I don't want to spoil the overall theme of the show, but I love the synergy of like, we did our, we did our production meeting.

6:17We huddle and talk about the week when the late window is over heading into Sunday night football. And we're sitting there saying, who's actually dominant? Who's actually good in, in the NFL right now? Like the chiefs are like famously fighting to stay above 500. The Colts lost to the chiefs today. The Ravens look really lackluster. We're going to get into that. The Lions went to overtime with a bad Giants team. And then you get to Sunday night football and you're like, oh, right. Those guys hadn't played yet. They're the best team in the NFL. And I'm also glad you shouted out Kobe Turner, Robert, because I have for a minute felt bad for him because he had that amazing rookie campaign where he was almost rookie of the year.

6:58And then verse and Fisk showed up. And now Byron Young is having his moment. And I feel like everybody forgot that he's a badass too. And it's like, oh yeah, they, they have another guy. They've got like five guys. And Puna Ford. And Puna Ford is one of the better like nose tackles in the league. And he's like the fifth most notable player on the Rams front. It really does speak to just how deep and dynamic that group is overall. For Kobe Turner to have a moment on national TV and be like, oh yeah, he's there too. We spend so much time talking about the other guys. yeah, they're, they're disgusting.

7:35I said something about this in the moment, but the last note that I want to hit here is somebody who talks to a lot of people and has just over the years, right? So I've covered the NFL for a little bit over a decade now, and I do my training camp tour every single year. And I've talked to at this point, hundreds of people, players and coaches about how they see the game and, you know, what they look for with peers at their position. And when you talk to people in the league, coaches and players, the quarterback who comes up the most in a surprising way is always Matthew Stafford. Matthew Stafford is just one of those guys that has unanimous respect from everybody around the NFL.

8:15And when you talk to especially receivers about receivers, the guy that they mention every single time when they're thinking about their game and how they want to improve and the nuances of the position is always Devontae Adams. And so the fact that these two guys are playing with each other as in a lot of ways, like the purest expression of their positions over the past 10 years, they're not the best players at their positions over those stretches of time. Like there are aliens that play those positions. There are Jamar Chases and there are Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allens. But when it comes to the purity of the bones of how you play quarterback and receiver, these two guys, to me, are the purest expressions of those ideas.

8:57And so the fact, Derek, that we've got to watch them together this season and Stafford is playing as well as he's ever played. And Devontae still has enough gas left in the tank to do the type of shit he did tonight. It is beautiful. Like there is something so wonderful about that synergy. And I thought tonight was a very good example of it. and it's only getting better the more they played together like early in the season it was like okay they can hit the backside digs which is like that's what you brought him in to do it was kind of like that was when odell beckham was on the team five years ago that was like okay that was the role but now you're seeing like over the past three four weeks okay they can finally connect in the red zone and some of that is them scheming him up some of it is stafford just threw like a delightful goal line fade to him um today which i think they had the only time it's acceptable by the way yeah the only time it's acceptable is when 17 is on your team yes when it's davante adams do whatever you want he's going to get open and get the space and stafford like they had tried that for the first like eight weeks of the season and just couldn't find it and now they're finding that he hit another ridiculous not goal line fade but just a go ball down the right sideline to him that like that was something that they weren't doing as much early in the season like the fact that it started at like this is already what we needed davante adams to give to the offense as like the backside dig over the middle guy and now they just keep adding to it it's like okay it's a vertical guy now he's our red zone guy it's just like it's they're incredible man like this this offense only continues to add layers, which is insane because they were already very good for the first eight weeks of the season, the fade out of 13 personnel, and they've been doing it for a month or more now, but like, it's so unfair.

10:28And you know, the cornerback is out there just like, God damn it. Like they're not going to bring any help because there's fricking nine guys in the box. They got three tight ends over there. It's just me and one of the best to ever do it. And I don't have it in front of me, but I know they've run that play like eight times over the last month and a half. And I bet Devante has got eight touchdowns when they do it. It's disgusting. It's funny. I noticed this in the first half and then it played out over the course of the game. The Rams used way less 13 personnel in this game percentage wise than they had over previous games this season.

10:59But the reason for that is that they bypassed the 11 to the 13 because the 13 is what you have to do to get most teams in base defense, but you don't have to do that against the bucks. Like the Bucks will play base defense to 12. And so they actually were in 12 personnel on like 18 % of their plays today, which was almost double the amount they use 13 personnel because they didn't have to go all the way to the other side with this Bucks team like they do with a lot of other defenses. So they reined it back in a little bit. Oh, on the combined on those two personnel groupings, 60 % success rate out of 12 today for the Rams, 67 % success rate out of 13.

11:39Which that's what we said. It's get the linebackers on the field and what's going to happen. And that was the thing. Like that was the thing, too, is like this is a team where, again, I know the Bucs defense over the last three weeks has not been that good. But like this is the one quarterback, not the one quarterback, but the quarterback most likely to if he's going to get you in base defense, just absolutely obliterate you over the middle of the field. And he did. Beller just dropped this in sprain shoulder for Baker. He will have an MRI tomorrow to determine the severity of that. But with the Bucs now, and I'm sure we'll dig into this over the course of the week, depending on what happens with the Panthers tomorrow.

12:11This is now going to be a conversation about what happens in the NFC South. And so this is going to be something to monitor. And I'm sure we'll touch on it here as we get a little bit closer toward Thanksgiving. All right, let's get to some of the other stuff that really jumped out to us today. It is time for You Have My Attention. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention. the Indianapolis Colts down 20 to nine, I believe at one point early in the fourth quarter or late in the third quarter. So down two scores, their season hanging in the balance. If they had lost that game, we talked about it coming into it.

12:48I think they would have had like a 45 ish percent chance to make the playoffs, maybe even less per our playoff simulator at the athletic. They storm back. They knock off the Indianapolis Colts, 23 to 20, the Kansas City Chiefs and their playoff chances you once again have my attention okay early in like okay so I know when we were doing the preview show the question was what does this Chiefs team do really well and I half jokingly said they stopped the run really well on first down in this game Jonathan Taylor had seven carries on first down for 14 yards He had two successful runs. He had three times where he was tackled in the backfield.

13:30The Chiefs did a decent job of getting them into the passing. Let's go, Derek. Pull the receipts, receipts over everything. Like when you get it, when you can dunk it, dunk it. Well done. It's a small thing, but make Daniel Jones drop back, man. And they did it enough times in this game that it worked out for them. I thought that their moments against the run were some of the best things that the Chiefs defense did in the entire game if you look at it even beyond first down so jonathan taylor stuffed five times in this game overall that is the most run stuffs per next gen that the colts have had in a single game this year tied with our game against the chargers but in that game against the chargers he had a bunch of explosive runs and so this was the first game all year where they were getting consistently shut down for negative gain for negative plays and they didn't have explosive runs to offset that per next gen stats.

14:22He was hitting the backfield on 62 and a half percent of his runs, which is the highest in any game for the Colts all year. And then if you look at some of like the individual moments that the chiefs run defense had, I mean, they came up huge in like crucial moments in the game, that third and two in overtime where tranquil just flies downhill for that TFL to force that punt. I mean, that's a game swinging play. And that's not the only time that happened in this game specifically for drew twinkle he had multiple like big plays in this game they had a first and goal the colts did late in the third quarter with a chance to really put the game away and mike pinnell did a great job disrupting that play on the front side but then tranquil just comes flying downhill and helps blow it up with bolton and then mcduffie gets a pbu on the next play that's the one where chris jones won instantly on third down and pitman got called for the OPI and the Colts are forced to kick a field goal there.

15:18And so beyond the first down stuff, I mean, you look at it consistently in this game, the chiefs run defense came up huge in the moments where they really needed to. It's funny to think about because, and, and I totally understand it, but the, the, the narrative and the talking point coming out of this game already, because it was an early game is Shane Steichen's play calling, taking the ball out of Jonathan Taylor's hands. I believe I wrote it down. Jonathan Taylor touched the ball three times from the early fourth quarter until the end of this game. And that's not good, right? Like I think you can find ways to to remedy that.

15:56But at the same time, you go back and watch some of these plays and look at the flow of the game. And I can understand Steichen's a little bit if he's sitting there thinking, well, these are wasted downs, man. Like these guys are stonewalling us. And yeah, like the overtime sequence is a great example of that, where something that's supposed to be easy money just was not for the Colts down the home stretch of this game. Now, like I said, I think you got to find a way to put the ball in JT's hands somehow, even if you don't trust it to trust them to run the ball the traditional way. But it was incredibly impressive the way the Chiefs were able to buckle down on that.

16:36I think with five minutes left, there were two moments in this game and one was in the second half and one was in the first half. In the first half, they had the ball at their own 40. The Colts did on a fourth and one, I think deep in the first half, maybe like in the final two minutes. And they punted the ball away. And that's one of those moments where I'm like, I don't know. I think I go for that. Even on your own 40 against this team, I think you got to know it's probably going to come down to the end. And I think you go for that. And then late in the game, they had that fourth and four after the it was a really nice sequence again by the Chiefs defense.

17:13They had a big blitz on third and 10. They got the ball to Jones's hands really quick. And it was fourth and four right before the Chiefs got it back for the game time drive. And in that moment on fourth and four, that's another one, Derek, where I kind of think I'm going for that. That's where they came up to the line. They got the delay of the game from the Chiefs. 45 yard line like I think in that situation I want to do everything I can to not let them get the ball back with the chance to win the game and so I don't think they're egregious decisions but I think twice in this game on fourth down I probably would have thought a little bit harder about going forward if I were Shane Steichen the fourth and four is like at that stage in the game I don't want to give him the ball definitely and honestly I think like the fourth and one is more egregious to me because you're the best part of your team other than Jonathan Taylor specifically is like you've built a really good offensive line that even if they haven't had their best day overall and like we're I think struggling to really get going the way that you wanted that should still be the part of your team that I think you are very comfortable leaning on and so to try to get one yard with the offensive line that you've built with the best back the best performing back in the league like you should probably try that or even like your RPO game for the entirety of the season has been really good a lot of your boot stuff has been really good I just for them to not be fully confident that they can get one yard I thought was kind of weird I think sometimes in these instances like in our seat it's very easy to be like we should not ever give Mahomes chances to get the ball and you should at least try to extend these drives as much as you can I think sometimes coaches kind of get scared when that's the other guy on the on the guy on the other side of the field and they just lean towards conservative stuff that they might not otherwise this is not provable at all but this felt like a game where the mystique of the chiefs was working against the Indianapolis Colts.

18:58Like I completely believe that. I hated the fourth and four. There were a few, that was the one I hated the most because the other two were deep enough in like on the cold side of the field where it's like, all right, you're kind of, you're handing Mahomes a really easy opportunity if you don't get this. But that was in plus territory and there were five minutes to play. And keep in mind the flow of the game too. Every single thing the Chiefs were doing was slow and methodical. Like talk about ball control. I mean, the shortest chiefs drive of the game was 10 plays and they had multiple like 15, 16 play drives.

19:35So by, by punting there and giving them the full field, I, it felt like you're working against yourselves in the idea of like getting the ball back because the chiefs of course wound up possessing it until you kick to go to overtime at the very end of the game. after you don't get that third down. If you go for it there and you don't get it, even if you give up points, it's not a guarantee, but I think you're probably giving up points with time to go and drive and either tie or win the game. So there were so many moments like that where they were either too conservative or they out thought themselves.

20:11And how about Shane Steichen taking the ball to start overtime, even though you can't end the game, you can't walk the Chiefs off. so why do you take the ball not knowing what you need to win there were there were a lot of perplexing decisions made in the second half and the easiest way to explain it is the chief's effect the mystique of this team playing at arrowhead it's funny that i i don't know a ton about like the ins and outs of the analytics behind the decision because in my mind the conventional wisdom would tell me if i get the ball second i know what i need to do and then you can use all four downs if you need to.

20:48But Sam Schwartstein was tweeting about it during the game. Our friend from Amazon, who is obviously incredibly involved in this world and all the situational decision making and the analytics behind these choices. And he said that the analytics actually sort of favor taking the ball first, because if you get the third possession, then the third, there's not going to be a fourth possession. So you would have a chance to, there's like an advantage of having the third possession if you can get a stop on the second one because there won't be a fourth one. I don't totally understand it, but I do think that there are some like mathematically, analytically inclined reasons that you might take the ball first that maybe I totally I don't totally grasp because at first glance, like at first blush, I 100 % agree with you.

21:31Sam went to Stanford, so I trust him. So I went to LSU. That's fair. But I just when you're in a situation where you're playing Patrick Mahomes and you don't know what you need and yeah you don't have the benefit of being able to go for it on fourth down because you have to I that feels like a tough spot to be for me but I'll uh I'll I'll defer to the nerds I guess there are a lot of like just a couple other moments from the Chiefs defense that I think are worth pointing out because obviously the Colts offense has been a machine for like a huge chunk of this season Even in games where they've turned the ball over and there's been some sloppiness, they were moving the ball really consistently.

22:10They had a 38.8 % success rate in this game today against the Chiefs. And we talked about the run plays. I thought there were multiple really nice moments from some of the Chiefs DBs in like huge spots. Talking about that fourth and four, the second down play on that sequence late in the fourth quarter, Jaden Hicks just comes flying down to make a play on like a quick out to Tyler Warren to force that third and 10. Brian Cook had a great player who was punching the ball against Michael Pittman that ended up becoming up huge in this game. And Chris Jones had multiple really nice moments in this game.

22:42So we talked coming in, Derek, that it felt like the Chiefs defense didn't have the sort of calling card we were used to seeing from them. And I thought you did see some of those like heat them up blitzes and huge moments. They had a big time cover zero on. I think there was a play after Brian Cook had that punch out. They had the blitz that forced them into that fourth and four. But even if maybe there isn't the same sort of overall menacing DNA in those moments from this team consistently that we're used to seeing, I thought top to bottom, just player wise, they came up really big in big spots in this game.

23:15And I think part of that, too, was like a tale of two halves situation. They didn't really blitz that much in the first half. And part of that was because I think the Colts were running the ball slightly better in the first half. They were getting themselves into slightly better game scripts. I think Matt Ryan said on the broadcast only three of like Daniel Jones is 12. I think dropbacks, they'd actually sent pressure in the second half. You started to see them heat them up a lot. And part of that was they were getting some run stops so they could get into their second and 11s and stuff like that.

23:40And I think Daniel Jones just kind of had a tough time seeing it. And then, like you said, these DBs played really well. Roland Wallace actually had a really nice breakup in the in the second half. And then on one of the Colts final drives in regulation, I think it was six minutes to go in the fourth quarter. Nick Bolton and Shamari Connor, if not for friendly firing each other, would have picked off a ball on first and 10. And that was a terrible throw. It was an awful throw from Daniel Jones. Like that was it was not his best day overall, but that was one of his worst plays. And he absolutely should have gotten picked off there.

24:11But I really do think that the Chiefs defense, especially after about the first quarter, really stepped up in this way. and like looked a lot more like the Chiefs defense that we've kind of come to expect of Spags. And I know that we had some concern coming into this game a little bit about what the Chiefs defense has been. But I do think that this was like a good reminder of Spags defenses like by December and January usually start to kind of go on their uptick anyway. And hopefully for them, this was the start of that uptick into whatever their final form is going to be. I want to be clear. It's not a bad defense.

24:46It's just a defense that I didn't really know what to make of them because I think some of the calling cards and hallmarks that we typically ascribe to a Chiefs defense weren't there for them over the first 10, 11 weeks of the season. It was mostly that I didn't know what to make of them and I didn't know how to pin them down. There are decent players on this unit and they were like an above average group. I just felt like I couldn't get a handle on them and that's not necessarily the most important thing in the world. Like they're still capable of games like this because the players top to bottom, it's still a solid group.

25:18And I think that you really felt that today. That's going to be what I want to watch going forward. And one of my favorite little football things is like when the when the aging elite players sort of shakes the rust off and is like, yeah, I'm still I can still be that guy. And it was Chris Jones today was so impactful. Well, I mean, I think for four pressures, but the like two of those came on the third downs that forced the Colts field goals in the second half. And like when it needed to happen, he was that guy. And that's awesome. And you beat the Colts and kept your season alive. And, you know, you don't have to scramble quite as badly as if you were coming off a loss going into a Thanksgiving game.

26:03But how consistent is that? How often can you summon it? Cause it really, it's cliche, but this really did feel like that, that heart of a champion trope that people talk about where like the, the old prize fighter, like summoned it for, for one more round, but it's only November 23rd. Like you got to do this half a dozen more times if, if you're going to get where you want to go. And so they did it today and it was awesome. But how consistently is it showing up here in the home stretch? would you make of the chiefs offense in this game today derek uh i thought actually after the first so they ran the ball in the way that they typically have where it's like very efficient and then you luck into maybe one or two explosives i thought the passing game after mahomes throwing the interception on i think their literal first play on the rpo which that to me was just an insane play by light too lot too like him getting in front of that window is just like what a ball player But after that, I actually thought Mahomes, for the most part, was exceptionally accurate today.

27:06Like, I thought he did a really good job of leading his receivers in a way that I think there were times this year where it didn't feel like he was just driving on the ball and really pinning it to go lead guys out in front of them. But I think like you really saw it towards the end of the game where he pins that one on Rasheed Rice, where he's backed up in his own end zone and he just fires it right past. I think it was the nickel corner trailing him and let's rice like stay in stride and run and get a big explosive. I just thought he was really pinning it on guys today in a way that he had kind of been up and down on a little bit throughout the season.

27:37The only play where I thought like accuracy wise, he really messed up was they had Rasheed Rice running that like little speed out to the left, the front left pylon on the goal line. He throws it on his back shoulder. That's just not a good ball. That probably could have been a touchdown. But otherwise, I thought he just played really, really well today. Their passing game, I still think, when you play man coverage against this team, they don't have a ton of answers. And I still think that was the case for a good chunk of this game. The Holmes finished 9 of 19 against man coverage. There was a couple of nice moments where they had those drop-eight looks with multiple guys kind of sitting in zones, and then they had that extra linebacker kind of doing that mush rush waiting for him to scramble.

28:16He got sacked while trying to extend a play doing that in this game. But all of the crossers that they ran, Eventually, just a few of them hit in the second half of the game. And it was for a couple different reasons. There were a couple of moments where guys were just getting dropped in zone coverage. Right. Where I think one of the big rice ones, there was a couple of big rice crossers in this game. But he had. At the end of the third quarter, he gets just gets dropped against zone coverage. Mahomes climbs the pocket, kind of drops it over the linebackers for like 44 yards. I think that's the one you were referring to, Derek, like out of his own end zone.

28:51and then later in the game there's a on first and 13 he has that 47 yarder uh late in the game in the fourth quarter that was another one where in there in cover six the safety in the corner to that side just get run off and there's a ton of space as more is trailing him and then on the fourth and three crosser to rice with like 235 left traverius ward's on him in man coverage and he just falls down right he falls down which that one's funny too because ward had a play earlier in the game that was like an incredible play running with a crosser where they were trying to pick him from the other side with Kelsey running like a crosser to try to pick him Ward did an incredible job of like bending just under Kelsey and then accelerating to go cut that route off to where Mahomes didn't want to throw it and then I think he took a sack on that play so that was just like I really do wonder if that is part of the calculus with teams sometimes being scared of playing man coverage against the Chiefs is like these guys can run.

29:46And if you mess it up one time and one guy falls, you get an explosive that literally loses you the game. But that's kind of what I was talking about coming into the game. I wanted to see them use these guys trying to stretch the field horizontally more than we usually get more than we were getting, because every once in a while they're going to just be able to outrun people. And the worthy one, I think the worthy one in overtime, that's another play where he just gets pretty quick such a separation out of like a condensed bunch on the right side. He gets it against Worthy. They find him on a crosser and it's a monster game.

30:18Like these guys, I think that Worthy and then Worthy and Mann and then Worthy just in general, the speed down the field is less useful than you want it to be. But the horizontal speed can get you some of these explosives. And we know this is the game that Rasheed Rice likes to play. And so eventually against both Mann and zone coverage, they popped like three or four of them. And it ended up becoming some of the more impressive and important plays they had all game. And the crosser that Derek mentioned out of my homes, his own end zone was one of my favorite things that happened in the NFL today.

30:53And like y 'all outlined it perfectly, but the Colts got hit for one. Like you said, Robert, they got hit for one against man. And I remember thinking, and like, I pulled up the dots and I was like, oh, that's, that's just smart football. Like you, you know, uh, Bynum and, uh, and Kenny Moore and, or Charverius Ward, whoever it was, they went off another direction. and you wind up with Zaire Franklin trying to drop and cover that. And I was like, well, that's not going to work. And then the one Derek mentioned out of his own end zone, Katie Moore had great coverage. It was just a freaking dart.

31:25It was just a phenomenal throw. And clearly the chiefs haven't done that consistently enough, but when they needed to, that's so much about this game for me, was just when they needed to, the chiefs did the cool thing. It was, I mean, even, even after all these years and however many times they've done it. Still cool to watch. Yeah, that fourth and three crosser. I mean, that's like, obviously the game is on the line there. And after when cream hunt fumbled that ball, in my mind, it's like, this one think this one's over safe space. And the fact that it wasn't. So this is a safe space. I know that's not actually true.

32:01Plenty of people are going to hear this, but at that moment, did you kind of write it off? Like when that happened, I think it was hard not to, when that happened, I was like, damn, they're really just not built like that this year. They're really not going to do it. And then everything else happened. It was wild. All right, before we move on, we're going to take a quick break.

32:24Let's get to our next one here. The Cowboys knock off the Philadelphia Eagles 24 to 21. The Eagles still are likely going to win the division, still have a 99 % chance of making the playoffs. But we set it coming into it. This is a game that just was a lot more interesting based on how the Philly defense had been playing, how the Cowboys offense had been playing. The fact that we saw some signs of life from the Cowboys defense after a couple of those moves, they were getting a little bit healthier. And it looked like that was incredibly wrong for the first part of this game as the Cowboys spotted them 21 points to get to start this thing.

33:01And then Dallas climbs all the way back. They knock off the Eagles 24 to 21. The Dallas Cowboys, after that performance today, you guys firmly have my attention. So here's, I'm going to do some run game stuff again, because this is kind of a little bit, to me, the theme of the day. The fact that the Philadelphia Eagles, who, like you said, had a 21-0 lead at one point in this game, finished the game with 11 running back carries is like red alert, sound the alarms. The fact that this particular football team cannot close out the game by running the football the way that they want to. I think that is like serious concern for the way that they built this offense, because I know that early in this game, they hit a couple of really nice places like A.J.

33:46Brown. Devonta Smith has the incredible catch down the right sideline. But like how much of just chucking it up can you really rely on over the course of getting into? Obviously, when we get into the postseason and stuff like that, the fact that a team that last year was able to kind of survive some of the up and downs that they had on offense by being able to just choke teams out with the run game. The fact that they didn't even really try that today was deeply concerning to me. On running back runs in this game, the Eagles had a 27.3 % success rate per next-gen stats. That is their worst game of the season.

34:19That is the third worst game that they've had since Saquon arrived last year. And it is a bottom 10 game for the Nick Sirianni tenure as the Eagles head coach. and it's a low point compared to even what they've been doing this year. But I do think, Derek, that this is just a kind of an extension of the struggles they've had to run the ball on their own terms the entire season. And it not being able to rely on that as kind of the stabilizing force for this team. That is how, combined with everything else that happened in the second half, something like this can go off the rails a little bit. Their two best runs in this game were two quarterback draws for Jalen Hurts, which like I'm glad they actually tapped into that a little bit more.

34:59I think when we've seen this offense at their best over the last handful of years, that actually is something that they can go to. But that should not be the only thing that they can go to. And it's, again, really concerning. Like there were just moments where I think they've struggled all year to kind of move people off the ball. But then I remember there was like a first and 10 run fairly early in this game where Quinnen Williams just explodes one of the guards and gets into the backfield and they lose like two yards on it. And this is an offense that doesn't want to be in a lot of second and twelves.

35:25And so it was just it was a very frustrating and like to me, a team's like personality and identity really does matter. And the fact that they had built this offense to be a team that can run the ball down your throat and finish games that way and could not do that in a game where they led 21 to zero is just like this team is not doing the thing that they were built to do. And so I know there's still a good football team. The defense is awesome. The two receivers can make plays like that. But the fact that they can't really tap into like what their identity is supposed to be, it's concerning for me.

35:57I love this because when I was going back and rewatching the second half and just trying to figure out how did this happen? Like, how did the Eagles offense run into the wall? How did this thing come off the rails? them just getting beat up up front in the second half of this game beyond the run game that was some of the most important stuff that happened their opening drive cam jurgens just doesn't block osa digizu on a second and seven on third and seven follower gets a pressure that he pushes uh fred johnson right back into jaylen he can't get there with a deep comeback to uh devante smith on their second drive in the third quarter sam williams gets the corner around my lotta and there's a TT stunt in the middle that prevents Jalen from scrambling.

36:36On third and five, Fowler beats Mylotta inside to disrupt a throw. They have a first and 10 in the third quarter where Clowney and Kenny Clark just blow up a run for no gain. And then Fowler draws that illegal use of hands against Fred Johnson to make it a second and 17. And then the next play is the one where Saquon fumbles and he's chased down by Sam Williams. So I know we've made a million different jokes about the Cowboys front this year. David, but the Cowboys front in massive moments against what should be one of the best offensive lines in the league, even without Lane Johnson. I thought they outplayed the Eagles offensive line in the second half of this game.

37:13We have a long time to weigh the, the trades that happened and like who the long-term winner is and whether it was the right move and who came out better. But the Quinn and Williams trade clearly like it accomplished the objective of fixing the Cowboys front, at least enough to where you're like a playable defense. And that was, it's what we've said the whole first half of the season is like, it's the same thing as the Bengals. Just, I need you to be functioning bad to mediocre. And this team could do something because you're so bad that it negates everything else that's going on. And that's clearly not the case anymore.

37:53And I'm so glad you mentioned Osa and I'll, I'll be honest. He he's always been a good player, but the Cowboys paid. Oh, so diggy Zua$80 million in the spring. And I've had several moments over the course of his time where I'm just like, what, like, what's the, what's the biggest impact? What's the most memorable moment or play from an$80 million D tackle. And I kind of racked my brain at times, but I don't have to anymore is what I was going to say. Cause Osa was amazing in this game. And lo and behold, you plug a guy like Quinn and Williams into the middle of the line and it just makes everybody look that much better.

38:31They were all over the place. They were physical. They were relentless. And I mean, it feels strong to say because of how much equity the Eagles offensive line has built up. But especially with Lane Johnson not in there, I think that's an easy case to make, especially in the second half of this game. osuidegizu was involved in a play that i think is just so illustrative of how this went in the second half of the game for both of these teams on the third down in the final drive uh for after the cowboys failed on that fourth down in the red zone the eagles try to throw a slant to aj brown and the whole player in man coverage i can't remember who it was was one of the linebackers takes away the slant to aj brown and jaylen doesn't have anywhere else to go with the ball and Osa eventually gets their pressures at late and finishes off the play.

39:25And so that's a play where you're trying to get number one option on a shallow route very quickly as in the rhythm of the play, it's not there, the entire thing gets blown up. Later in that half, Derek, there is a third and two and they have CeeDee Lamb going in a very quick motion from right to left. He runs a shallow cross. Dak wants CeeDee on the shallow cross. Nolan Smith drops under it and takes it away. Dak moves to Jake Ferguson on the crosser behind it, buys a little bit of time for himself by sliding in the pocket, finds Jake Ferguson for a game swinging play. So very similar moments happening to both of these quarterbacks.

40:04And Dak buys enough time and improvises just enough and steps outside of what is on the paper to make a play that ultimately swings the game for the Cowboys. There was like a beautiful kind of mirror image to me with those two moments in the second half. I'm so glad you frame it that way because to me like Jalen Hurts I actually thought in the first half he made a couple of nice plays under pressure and like extending and doing all that I thought in the second half he had terrible responses to pressure he just kept freezing and that third and two was a great example where uh he doesn't really like what he sees from the pocket and also Odigizua starts to come through and I think the right side of the pocket was caving in too from Jadavian Clowney and he just doesn't do anything he kind of just stands there and waits to get sacked and then you have Dak Prescott on the other hand who I don't know at least half a dozen times in this game was like holding holding gets to his third fourth read and just chucks the shit out of the ball into a dig window or late to Ferguson like that or deep down the field to CeeDee Lamb like he just turpin play that shun played a turpin on the scramble drill at the end of the second half yes dude like Dak Dak today was outside of like one or two plays he was gaming dude he threw He threw an end zone interception and still had that good of a game.

41:18He was he I mean, he usually does. He usually balls out against the Eagles. And yeah, add that one to the list. So the Turpin play that crosser to Ferguson and then. But other than that, like those are kind of like quieter moments where it's good quarterback play. It's either within the rhythm of the play or just kind of extending a little bit to me. the most, the biggest, the most important moments of the day for the Cowboys offense in this game are the receivers being monsters. Those two guys. And for, unfortunately for the Eagles, Adore Jackson gets banged up at some point in this game. They bring in Michael Carter.

41:55They move Cooper to Jean outside. And then Cooper to Jean gets worked on two hugely explosive plays, one by a CD lamb that play that CD rant lamb makes down the right sideline. The adjustment he makes to that ball to come back forward and make that play is insane. And then obviously you have the 43 yard bomb on the corner route to George Pickens. And that's another play where Cooper de Jean is an outside corner there. He gets turned around, Dak lays it up and his guy goes and makes a ridiculous play. And so it's just really nice that every once in a while, it kind of reminds me of the Devante Smith play that he made in this game.

42:31I was going to say there were three has those two guys that he can do the same thing that Jalen hurts is able to do with the players that the receivers he's had for these last couple of years must be nice must be nice for Dak to finally be living this life a little bit. It speaks to how good like it speaks to what I expect from CD lamb that he made that play. He made an incredible play and I'm still just like, oh my God, CD get it together. Dude is three drops today. He dropped an explosive in the first half. He drops a would-be touchdown on third down when the Cowboys went for it down in the low red zone.

43:07They decide not to kick the field goal and they don't get it. Obviously, you don't have to worry about that if CD just hangs on to the ball. And even on a day like that where I'm like, ah, CD, come on, dude. He still made a play like that and finishes with 75 yards on the day. Like if that is his brain fart game, you're cooking with some gas. But yeah, I mean, George Pickens is we we did this after the Raiders game, Robert, so we don't have to spend too much time on it. But like what a what a decision by the by the Cowboys to go get that guy. I was at him in a moment after that game where I think a lot of people, the first place their minds went where, OK, how much money is George Pickens going to make this offseason?

43:49And I still had like a little kernel of doubt in the back of my head where it was like, OK, do you want to be the team that pays George Pickens 30 million dollars? Yes. Do you want to be that team? I do. And now I'm like, I don't care. Like whatever the downside risk is of giving George Pickens like$150 million. I think I'm willing to take on that downside risk if we know this is a possibility. Well, let's just let's put it out there to like the Cowboys need to pay this guy. Like it doesn't need to be another team trying to figure out if this is a good idea. You already know it can work. He he he matches perfectly with your quarterback who's under contract.

44:28The quarterback loves him. He clearly works in the offense. And if there's one market and one owner and one team that can make all this work, it's got to be Dallas. And whether you want to tag him and do your usual stupid cowboy games, I don't really care. But you can't. Why would you let this guy walk? That's insanity. which I almost never ever want to pick this as an option because I think that for the most part, it's not a optimized use of resources to tag somebody in this situation. This is one of them where I'm like, I think I might think about it because the downside risk again, just in terms of how he's disappeared in some of these seasons and the personality concerns and all that stuff.

45:15I don't think we ignore that. And so tagging him and saying, you know what, let's see if you can do it again. I actually don't hate that as an option. And part of the problem is when you're tagging somebody, you can't do any funniness with the, with the cap. So if you're going to tag them, it's going to be what? $24 million, that$24 million hits your cap from a cash perspective, though, if you wanted to restructure DAC and CD, you do have some flexibility with how you can manipulate the cap in this year specifically. And if you want to use your, some of the cash to do that and save some of it with the Pickens thing.

45:47I'm not totally opposed to taking that route. If you're Dallas, even if in a lot of other situations, that's not what I would typically choose to do. We can sort this out when the season's over, but he needs to be a under contract with the Cowboys when the league year opens. If that's a tag fine, but long-term is fine with me to either way. We'll, we'll sort that out in March, but like patting yourself on the back for getting a comp pick when he signs with Carolina. No, that, that can't happen. It can't happen after what we've seen so far. We've talked about it after the Raider game. There is a real window for this team with Dak being able to play this way with this offensive infrastructure.

46:29And I think you have to do everything you can within reason to maximize whatever the next two or three seasons look like and I don't think you could look yourself in the face look yourself in the mirror and say George Pickens should not be a part of that plan I do I know we have to move on but I'd like we I do just want to emphasize the degree to which the Cowboys shit the bed for the first like 25 minutes of this game like between the penalties the turnovers Dak throws an end zone interception. Kavante Turpin has a fumble. Why Kavante Turpin is getting running back carries is beyond me anyway.

47:09Uh, the roughing the punter penalty, the, like it, it was unbelievable the degree to which, and, and the Eagles marched down the field, like their first three times with the ball, like the degree to which the entire roster looked like they forgot there was a game. and then you fast forward to the end. It's a remarkable transformation. Just absolutely incredible. We talked about this coming into the game. I don't think all the craziness and all the drama and all the whispers, getting louder than whispers, I don't think that's going to get turned down here over the next five or so days before the Eagles play on Black Friday.

47:48Let's get to our next one here. The team the Eagles are playing on Black Friday. The Chicago Bears beat the Pittsburgh Steelers 31 to 28. The Bears are now 8-3. It's their best record since 2018. Per the Athletics Playoff Simulator and Austin Mock, the Bears now have a 55 % chance to make the playoffs. So they have a better than 50-50 chance to be a playoff team per the Athletics numbers. I want to be very clear about this. It's not my idea to include this in the show. Everyone who's going to accuse me of just trying to shoehorn Bears conversations in all the time, you should know better by now.

48:23I was pushed to this point. But it is happening nonetheless. Chicago Bears, the eight and three potential playoff bound Chicago Bears. You guys have our attention. I will say that I was the one that mostly pushed them in to be here. And this was my framing for this game. It's not necessarily that I think the Bears are a great team or that this win in particular even says that much about the quality of this Chicago Bears team. But I was watching it. And obviously, Caleb Williams has the horrendous strip sack touchdown in his own end zone that looks funny and is terrible on like 8000 different levels in any other Bears season in my lifetime.

49:00If the quarterback does that, the Bears lose the football game. The fact that this team is coached well enough and got enough turnovers on defense and Caleb made enough throws throughout the rest of the game, the run game got going at certain points. The fact that they found a way to win after that, that's new for the Bears. And I thought that that was kind of cool. I don't disagree with that. And I had a very similar response when it was happening. I don't think that waves away. No, what the rest of the game looked like in some ways. And we can talk about that, but that play happens. And I think it was honestly like the next drive.

49:35They came out on the next drive after that happened. And he had, I guess it, I guess it wasn't on the next drive. I guess on the, on the next drive, they had a three and out, but then the drive after that, they came out and had like a really impressive touchdown drive. It was a 70-yard touchdown drive. He had a bunch of completions. They were moving the ball well. It finishes off with a 12-yard touchdown to Colson Loveland. And it was on that drive where I was just kind of like, the fact that they're coming back from some of these things and don't look that rattled by them, they deserve some credit for that at the very least.

50:07The fact that they've been able to bounce back enough times in these games and have these late-game moments, I don't think that's the most important thing. I think you want to be better before you're having to put yourself in those situations. but I do think that they deserve some credit for that. And I'm with you, Derek, in that it did feel different than it has felt for a very long time when they got behind the eight ball like that. Yeah. And that was just, I don't know if that's like, I just, I think a lot of that to me was just like Ben Johnson is clearly a good coach. And there's just something that's undeniable at this point.

50:36There is some factor of him being able to stabilize these guys a little bit. And like, listen, Caleb is going to have those moments, at least for the next couple of years where he just does something incredibly dumb, holding onto the ball. And he just has those. But again, I think last year if that happened he probably would have unraveled a little bit and so the fact that already in year two that like they've been able to find some stability in the offense help him out by running the ball fairly well in certain points they had a couple of trick plays like end rounds that worked out for them like they just the fact that they were able to take a breath in a way that I just do not think that previous versions of this team ever would have been able to do I really did think was cool and to if we're going to talk about that drive really quickly colson loveland is a freak show dude like he's so good him cutting across the db's face there and just like so easily boxing him out like that guy is just he's gonna be really really damn good at this league he's awesome it was it was one of my other responses while watching the game today and like some of the moments that luther burden had and just like watching colson loveland and like you know i rome had it wasn't a great game for momo dunce but it was one of those things where I'm watching that Colson Lovelland drive and I was like, the kids are all right.

51:43Like I am really excited about like the young nucleus of skill position talent that they have because they've got some dudes who can really play. And that is another thing that feels a little bit different than it has felt for a very long time. Play the babies. Seriously. Like they're all so exciting. My none guys obviously had an incredible year. Burden just looks different with the ball in his hands, like even by NFL standards. I was just going to add to y 'all's point like yes the resiliency and the bouncing back but also like this sounds weird to say but the opportunistic Chicago Bears like you get it you go on a touchdown drive after the early Steelers interception touchdown after the turnover on downs at like midway through the second quarter then after the Montez sweat strip sack touchdown drive like to make like to really make the most of all of your chances when they're presented to you.

52:41Like, I don't know if the bears are a quote unquote good team, but in the, in the muddy middle of the NFL, just make the most of the opportunities that you get in a game and you're going to win a lot of games. Clearly this is the bears second four game win streak this season. They hadn't had one of those at all since 2018. That seems, I mean, it doesn't seem impossible because I've watched the bears, but it's still wild to think about. It was a strange game because obviously the nation right interception that he has early on, like you mentioned, he's doing that once a week. Like it's a very weird kind of strange experience watching the bears defense because most of the time they're bad 95 % of the time.

53:22And then they, I said this on, on Twitter during the game, like they're bad most of the time. And then they're going to make the most breathtaking play on the ball. You've ever seen a DB make once a game. And that's exactly what happened again with that nation right pick. And so when you watch the rhythm of the game over the most of the first half and just the way that the Steelers are moving the ball, the fact that they scored a 55 yard touchdown on a fake tush push, it just felt like a day where the Bears offense was going to have to be perfect. And they were not perfect in the first half of this game, that Caleb Williams strip sack touchdown, that's the low light.

53:56He was not good in the first half of this game. He had four or five different misses that you can't wave them away. There are plays and throws he missed in this game. He has a he sales a throw for Luther Burden off play action halfway through the second quarter. He misses Rome on an inbreaker at one point. He dirts a throw after extending one to Luther Burden in the first half. He misses DJ more on an inbreaker on their second drive. Like the inaccuracy is it's something that needs to be cleaned up if he is going to reach anything even close to his ceiling. And it was a significant problem early in this game.

54:32And so the offense was not perfect. But in the second half, the defense had its share of moments in the second half of this game, a defense without its three starting linebackers, without its two best corners. You lose Tyreek Stevenson at some point in this game. You lose one of the other Ruben Hippolyte goes down at some point in this game. And the defense still had like three or four stops in the second half. I know it's Mason Rudolph, but we're talking about like a group of guys that are mostly special teamers coming up big in the second half. And there was plenty of them. Nation right had a great play down the field on a third and 10 in the second half after the drive after the first sweats sweat sack, which they got to cover two and he had to kind of hold on to it a little bit.

55:15Sweat gets the sack on the tight end. The strip sack that sweat had you go back and watch the play at some point. The Rudolph is trying to get his check down in the left flat. Andrew Billings peels off with the check down. And like that little flash of color is the reason that he doesn't throw the check down. And that's why sweat gets the strip sack. And then later in the, in the third quarter, about halfway through the third quarter, they had a second and two. The Steelers did briskers walk down into the box. He does a great job of pushing the ball back inside. And then I'm going to not pronounce his name correctly, but I'm going to try.

55:53It's like the fourth string linebacker,

55:58Eamon Ogbamenga has a ridiculous play where he cleans it up for no gain. And then on the next play, DeMarco Jackson, who is wearing the green dot in this game, despite never having played for this defense, does a fantastic job of chasing the check down down in the flat with Gainwell, and he forces the punt. And so I really did think this was going to be a game where they were just not going to be able to get a single stop. And in the second half, they got three or four of them with a mash unit defense. And it was pretty cool to watch. DeMarco Jackson wore the green dot in this game. That's yes.

56:32That's how I would have all three linebackers were out. It's the type of thing we're like going in. I knew the linebackers were all hurt, but you don't think about it practically until you hear that DeMarco Jackson is wearing the green dot. And you're like, yeah, that's that's a tough place to be. I honestly thought other than especially in the first half like I think that the Steelers were kind of killing them with like perimeter stuff like some screens some jet stuff like all that other than that I actually thought the Bears defense played like reasonably well and again I know again some of this is like against Mason Rudolph whatever and the Steelers offense is not super talented especially a receiver outside of DK Metcalf to begin with but I really did think outside of like hey we took some bad angles to the perimeter and then obviously the the funny fake push thing that goes off.

57:17Otherwise, I thought they actually played like about as well as they could have. They played pretty well. Okay. So sorry, Robert, but like, let's just spin it forward here. Assuming you get a little bit of little bit of reinforcements in the health department. You think these guys can frustrate a frustrating Eagles offense? I'm already I'm already ready for Black Friday. They need to be much healthier than they are right now. Like I think if they get two of the linebackers back and they get Jalen Johnson and Kyle Gordon back and let's say Tyreek Stevenson can play in that game, then I'll start to get interested in it.

57:51I think the the bigger picture takeaway from me in this game is kind of what Derek was talking about. Ben Johnson has done a really, really, really good job. And I think that there have been some stretches play calling wise that left a little bit to be desired. I think the Vikings game was an example of this. today was a game where he had the entire Steelers defensive staff, whether it's Terrell Austin, Mike Tomlin, whoever you want to throw in there. He had them in like the walls of Jericho for four quarters in this game, whenever they wanted to throw the ball, the amount of guys running wide open this entire game.

58:25And that's why I think there's probably going to be a disconnect between Caleb's final stat line and the way that I think he played for a good chunk of this game. It was very easy for the quarterback for a huge portion of this football game. Go watch the four verts touchdown where they're running cover three and you have two guys running wide open and he throws it to DJ Moore. I mean, the fact that DJ Moore, I think, had a taunting penalty on that drive that sets them back. And it just didn't matter because he's running wide open on the scene for a touchdown. The amount of wide open receivers in this game and just how dialed in Ben Johnson was throughout the entire day, I think really does speak to what he can do when you're making it easy on him.

59:02And we talked about it coming into it. The Steelers at times can give you the answers to the test before it begins. And if you're going to do that to a guy like Ben Johnson, even if the quarterback is having an off day, this team can still put up 30 on you the exact way that they did. I need the Bears to keep winning because I need I want a confrontation between Robert's very like rational, minute, boring hopes and dreams of like, oh, the the the the mechanical process. and like the coaching and and Caleb's working on his footwork and his consistency. And like it, that's all great and it matters.

59:41But if the Bears win Friday, they've got like a 75 % chance of going to the playoffs, according to our playoff predictor. So that's all fun, Robert. But eventually you might have to confront the idea that the Bears are going to be a meaningful piece of the NFC playoff picture. The two things I've already said that I'm in on the quarterback and I think that he has a chance to be good. And now you're combining that with a play caller. The fact that the bears have an offensive play caller who can win them games and make it easy on the, on the talent and that the talent is really good. All of those things converging.

1:00:18I'm excited about that. I'm undeniably excited about that. So there can be moments and elements of each game that are frustrating. And I think Caleb Williams's performance today was one of those things, But there's enough on the other side of the ledger that can get me pretty juiced. And so I think that's kind of where I am right now is that in any given game, in terms of the offense, whether it's the play calling and the plan, the skill position talent at the quarterback. If two of those things are humming in any individual game, I'm probably going to be having a decent time. And two of those things were humming in this game.

1:00:49I made this joke in our show chat on Sunday afternoon. the 2025 bears remind me of the 2022 Vikings in the sense that like the bears are eight and three with a negative point differential right now the only other teams that can say that are in the NFC south just to give you some context but what gave you so much pause about the 2022 Vikings is you're like okay what does this really mean when the Eagles and the 49ers are waiting for you at the end of the road. Obviously the Rams are very good, but other than that, it feels a hell of a lot more wide open. Like I think that there's more reason for optimism from a mediocre team in these playoffs.

1:01:31At least that's how it feels right now. I also think the biggest difference with that is the minute the 2022 Vikings had a 33 year old, 34 year old Kirk cousins as their quarterback. Like that was the end point of something, or at least approaching the end. This hopefully is the first step in what is a multi-year process. And the first glimpse that we've gotten of that initial step, I think have been really encouraging on a bunch of different levels. That is a good differentiator. Yeah. All right. Before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break.

1:02:08what the f**k what the f**k what typically we reserve this space for teams that lost but there weren't enough kind of crazy upsets today to fill it that way and even if there were i wanted to hit on this performance so the ravens beat the jets 23 to 10 today the ravens in this game offensively per next gen stats had a 28.6 success rate that is the worst mark they've had in a game since lamar jackson became the quarterback of the ravens like that is how ugly and it's worse than the miami game Believe so. Wow. 28.6%. They had a 22.2 % rushing success rate per next gen stats. That is, it was a disjointed game.

1:02:52It was an ugly game on offense. And just because they managed to come back and not come back, but just because they managed to beat the jets, I don't think we should wave away this performance because we were talking about the Ravens as part of the table discussion earlier this week. We kept them there because the thought is the defense is kind of coming together, even though Kyle Hamilton got banged up a couple different times this game and the offense as Lamar Jackson gets healthy, they will probably find a gear that makes them scary. I'm still waiting for them to do that. And I know there are reasonable explanations as to why it hasn't happened.

1:03:22But I watch a game like today, Derek, and I'm starting to look at my watch wondering when this is actually going to come together. So Baltimore Ravens, despite the win today, despite the fact that you now have really kind of taken control of the AFC South, what the is going on? this to me was a very good snapshot and I think this has been true the last handful of weeks of how much of the burden is on Lamar Jackson being like a superstar level player he's clearly not that right now like he is clearly not healthy and not as explosive as I think that he used to be and like Lamar Jackson being at let's call it 80 percent can still sometimes make a guy miss in the pocket and make a really nice play he did it a number of times in this game but Lamar Jackson at 80 % is is not like the complete load bearing offensive player that he is at 100 % where he can just make you right on every single snap I just don't think he's doing that right now I also think there are just like weird moments where he's not fully confident in the offense like early in this game they have a first and 23 they're a little bit back or it's the first quarter with two minutes and 30 seconds left it's a third and three and they're a little bit backed up Lamar Jackson has DeAndre Hopkins like settling in between a couple of zone defenders on a little real shallow route at the sticks and he just like never gets to it and doesn't throw it ends up bailing to his right and chucking it down the field to Isaiah likely he's just doing a little bit more of that now where he feels like he has to be the superhero but isn't fully healthy enough to actually do all of that stuff so I think he's in a weird spot there and then honestly the most frustrating part of this game to me and where I think that you can feel the Ravens offense is just not comfortable even from a play calling perspective the first drive of the game they get into third and like one and a half and they shift Mark Andrews in to run the sneak.

1:05:06If you're a good like if you're last year's Ravens team and you have third and one and a half, you don't have to get into this bullshit little sneak thing like you run a play and you run Derek Henry through someone's face like the fact that they don't feel comfortable doing that, that almost like I was talking about the Eagles a little bit earlier. The fact that this is supposed to be your team identity and you've a little bit struggled to tap into it the way they did last year. It's pretty concerning to me. And if Lamar is not going to be 100 % I'm struggling to like find where the top gear is for this team for this offense.

1:05:33Didn't they not get it and then go for it? Yes, they did on that same drive. Yes, they didn't get it and then had to do it again, which like cool that you converted it. But this version of the Ravens to me should not be we have to sneak twice from a third and one and a half to get it. This should be like we have third in one. We can pull a guard and kick someone's ass like that is who the Ravens are supposed to be. I was curious. So I looked this up today was Lamar's sixth worst rush EPA over the last four seasons. And of the five games that were worse, he lost fumbles in four of those. So like without catastrophic turnover play, this is about as bad as we've seen from Lamar as a runner, which we all know he can take over a game without running the ball, But that athleticism, even when he's not like running past the line of scrimmage is just so valuable.

1:06:27His evasiveness, the way he can extend plays. And he just doesn't look like that guy right now. And we were talking about this before the show, too. It's it's tempting to be like, well, he'll get healthier. He'll round into better form. But if you're playing every six days for the rest of the year, is that true? Like, can that happen? And it's a very frustrating place to be sandwiched between the Ravens looking mediocre, wanting to be fair to everybody else in the AFC because we have the Ravens sitting at our contender table and maybe they shouldn't be. But then you look at the rest of their schedule and like there are some tough games up front for them, but they're they're officially leading the division, like Robert said, and a lot of what's left looks manageable.

1:07:16And so I don't know what to do. Like I feel dumb waiting, but I do still think there's a good reason to wait. And I'm just annoyed. They have an 89 % chance to make the playoffs. Exactly. The playoff simulator. And so the idea that Lamar Jackson and this team with the gear that we've seen them have in the past is going to be in the playoffs. That's probably enough for me to not feel bad about them sitting there, but I am getting a little bit impatient. And I know that a huge chunk of this is Lamar's health, but the Lamar's health doesn't have anything to do with the running back runs that this team can no longer find any sort of efficiency on.

1:07:51Like, I just think overall there's a disjointed feel to the offense beyond what he is not giving them as a play extender, as a runner, all of that kind of stuff. That play that you mentioned, Derek, the one where he doesn't throw the ball to Deandre Hopkins and he tries to extend and throws the ball down the field to Isaiah likely. I think that you probably can fit that ball into Hopkins there, but they're running mesh on that play on third and three and the jets break out into cover too and there's nowhere to quickly go with the ball and that happened three different times in this game where they tried to run mesh on third down the jets played zone and they had no answers against it like the best moments that the ravens had in this game throwing the ball there were only like three or four of them that i think were objectively like that's what you want to see from them, almost all of them were like huge chunks off play action.

1:08:43They had one from the pistol out of 21 personnel to Zay on their fourth drive. They had the big corner route to Devontae's Walker where they moved the pocket again. Like anything that is just in rhythm, like drop back pass game right now, they just don't seem to have a feel for what they want to be doing in a lot of these situations. And I think some of that is Lamar's health, but I also think some of that is just a lack of there are moments last year where this offense at its best it just felt like Todd could see the future it just felt like he was in the zone so consistently and it feels like the opposite of that right now where they're really scrambling for answers in a way I'm just not used to seeing with this team and I think it's not just that like Mankin is struggling a little bit like I think even purely from the pocket Lamar is having moments where he's just not playing as well like on absolutely he missed multiple throws in this game there there's a second and 10 on the drive after that we were talking about with Hopkins you know maybe he could have hit him uh on mesh or whatever on the next drive it's second and 10 and he just like gator arm throws a ball to Isaiah likely in the flat and just misses and that's like not a throw that Lamar has ever missed over the last two years and so there's just like more weird moments of inconsistency from him there and then again I think he's just holding on to the like he's always been a guy who's held on to the ball but I think that's never been a problem when you're the best athlete on the field and so So now that he's not, I think you're feeling the fact that he can't just like paper over some of the lack of like this team still doesn't really have like a star receiver or a guy that you can just throw the ball to in contested areas.

1:10:15And I think that you're feeling some of that when he's not able to be the guy that bails them out of stuff. Let's get to our next one here. And this entire game was fun. I don't necessarily want to destroy either of the teams that participated in it. it's kind of in this section because we were full of stuff and you have my attention. And there was just a lot of weirdness down the, when it came to the decision-making late in this game. So the way I'll frame this is the decisions made in the fourth quarter and overtime in the game between the Jags and the Cardinals. What the who do you want to start with here?

1:10:48Like which, which team? Cause I feel like, which do you think was more egregious? What do you think was the most egregious decision made down the stretch in this game? That's a great call. Cause like part of me is like Trevor throw Trevor trying to throw the interception past where he was trying to throw like a stop route to Austin Trammell, I think on the numbers and tries to fit it past Buddha Baker. That's a terrible decision. Them. I think on their fourth and one later in the game, calling like a boot into the boundary was a little bit of like, that was the one for me. That was, I did not love that play call.

1:11:21Fourth, fourth and one taking away half of the field on purpose. And I mean, they had shorter reads and they both were well covered up by the Cardinals, but fourth and one on the move. And your best bet is, you know, whatever it was, 15, 20 yards downfield. I, I did not enjoy that play call. I think I hated that more than Jonathan Gannon going for it on fourth and long. We talked about this in the pre-show meeting. I'm willing to have this conversation. The fourth and 12 that Jonathan Gannon goes for late in the game. There's 206 left. My assumption is if you punt that ball, you do not get the two-minute warning.

1:12:01So let's say that play ends with like 158 left. So you then have three timeouts. They have the ball. Next Gen had that as a toss-up going forward on that fourth and 12. There was a very similar moment in the Steelers-Bears game where the Steelers punted it on fourth and nine without the two-minute warning, and they had three timeouts. I know Derek doesn't feel this way. I'm okay with going forward in that situation because I think that if you put the ball away there after the two minute warning, the other team gets a first down, the game is over essentially. So I think that the chance to just try to maintain possession there, even if you're going to lose the game in that moment, if you put the ball away, you're probably going to lose the game anyway.

1:12:44And so I actually do think that going forward on some of those four downs, even if it ends the game quicker, most of the time it didn't hear. I do think that there's some justification for it because there's a there's a very good chance and a decent chance in that situation where if you punt away, you're never going to see it again anyway. This is going to be bad for content, but upon rewatching it, I think I agree. Actually, I was kind of fine with watching it. I don't I'll I'll argue. I think I just bullshit. I had just a very visceral reaction to seeing fourth and 12 and a free rusher in Jacoby's face immediately.

1:13:17I was like that. That seems illegal. You shouldn't do that. It's a visceral reaction because the idea of going forward on fourth and 12 and the downside of that, it makes you feel gross. But at the same time, it's like if you put the ball away in that situation, you're giving the game away anyway. So even if it's it feels worse to put yourself in that scenario, it's not I don't think it's any worse than giving the other team the ball back with less than two minutes left when you're losing the football game. OK, a couple of things. And I already said it, but I'll say it again. Like I went to an SEC school.

1:13:48I can barely tip without needing a calculator. Like I'll defer, I'll defer to the people that do this stuff for a living. I respect them. I don't want to be too much of like a grumpy old man yelling at clouds, but Robert, the Steelers, you just said it. They did it. They did it today. They did the same thing and it worked. And just because it worked doesn't mean it's the right choice. Here's this is why I think it is the right choice. Hey, first of all, fourth and 12. And I know Jacoby actually did make a couple of plays with his feet today, but like fourth and 12 with a statue esque quarterback recipe for disaster.

1:14:24Part two, the vast majority of teams are going to play it conservatively in that situation where like, all you got to do is get a first down. You're probably going to see some vanilla ass play calling. You don't want to put the ball in the air and risk not making the other team burn their timeouts. and most importantly trevor was doing dumb shit all day trevor was trying to give the game away so how do you know that trevor's not going to do something crazy with the game on the line like maybe they do call a pass and trevor's like i gotta make this happen if we get the first down we we ice this thing and then he's throwing a ball he shouldn't be throwing i think there's a lot of reasons why i think it makes sense to go for it even if the math doesn't or excuse me why it makes a lot of sense to punt it, even if the math doesn't necessarily agree with me.

1:15:12I, I don't think it disagrees with you. I think it's like, I mean, if it's a toss up and I guess, yeah, you can make either case. I think you can go either way. And that's why if they had punted it, I don't think it's some terrible decision, but I also don't think going forward is a terrible decision. Like I get, I do see it as a, which way would you rather lose sort of thing? And I think I'd rather lose taking the swing on fourth and 12 rather than giving the team, the other, gave the other team the ball and never seeing it again. When Tomlin punted on fourth and nine, I was celebrating. Like, I think on that situation, I, I, that's also, they were talking about gut feelings.

1:15:47What do you want the opponent to do? When he punted in that moment, I was happy because I felt like the bears could get a first down and then the game. Because you trust your offense. Where are the, where were the Jags at given the day? They actually had a very high passing success rate, but they, again, like Dave was saying, Trevor was trying to give the ball away and successfully did that multiple times this game. It is a good thing to point out. It is a good thing to point out. I would have, if I'm a, if I'm a Cardinals, excuse me, a Jags fan, I'm pumped to see them go for it. Cause I'm like fourth and 12, they're not getting this.

1:16:23And then we can put the game away, which ironically they did not like only the Jags could have been gifted this situation and not gotten anything out of it by the way but no I if it was fourth and five or even fourth and sixth I'm not even talking about this with you like I wouldn't I wouldn't think twice about it like yeah you should probably go for it but fourth and 12 with a non-special physically quarterback like a guy like you know Jacoby Brissett is not healthy Lamar Jackson like if you if you're trying to pick up a fourth and 12 without a guy like that I'm a little I'm a little nervous I think I would have punted I guess so I mean that chunk play to Michael Wilson did happen earlier in the like at the end of regulation I mean like how many times I'm just saying it's I think I'm I'm I'm giving more grace to the teams going for it on fourth and ten in that situation the last thing I want to say about this game this was there's never been a more Trevor Lawrence game like that I've ever seen in my entire life he has the interception that walter nolan scores a touchdown on he throws multiple like several other how many picks did he throw in this game how many three the first one you're referencing was a strip sack so that was a nolan okay so it's a so it's a fumble return for a touchdown he throws three interceptions one is tips down in the red zone fine two of them are directly two underneath defenders that he takes to the ball on the one where uh akim davis gaither and Buddha Baker picked that off.

1:17:52And then he also has like four or five like f*** you throws over the course of this game. The cover zero backing up throw he has for the touchdown, the touchdown he has to Parker Washington, the rail route wheel to Parker Washington up the right sideline late in the game. I just don't know what to make of him. I can completely understand. This is very similar to the coin flip element of the fourth and 12. I can totally understand how somebody could watch that game and be like, this guy will never win anything. I cannot believe that there are people who are believing him and he makes$50 million.

1:18:24And I also completely understand how there are people like Derek who will never, ever, ever sell their stock because he is capable of those five plays. I know it's bad for me. I know it's unhealthy. And I know it's not going to lead to anything good at the end of the road. But I just can't quit him, man. Like the throw to Parker Washington. He makes an awesome step up in the pocket past Josh Sweat, who is like flying off the right side too. Like it's just he has those plays and to even on the cover zero that he throws to Jacoby Myers on third and six. I think the play before that they're in second 18 because of a penalty and he rips one to Myers like on the numbers on a stop route.

1:19:01And so I was just like he can bail you out of those moments at times. He is he's going to lose you some games, but I really think that there are moments where he can win it to you, too. And he gave you both today, which was I was going to say, which one did he do today? both he gave you both and you just got lucky that you came out on top brother the the parker washington touchdown was like as good as it gets but you know what though which i think everything you said is right derek but after a certain point when like this is just who trevor is like both of those things are true but when what do i do with that yeah like when does when does the when does it start to matter that the good never outweighs the bad, I guess is what I'm saying.

1:19:45Like we can sit here, we can sit here and say till we're blue in the face, like Trevor can be a really good quarterback. He has these moments and they're really special and impressive. But if it comes with three of those dipshit type of moments per week, what are you, what are you supposed to do with that? You know why I'm so scared of this? Why? Because your quarterback is a little bit like this.

1:20:09at least i see the next like three years of my life playing out in front of me and i don't think i like it i i've just i've i've kind of accepted what he is and i love him for what he is you can do that because you could divorce yourself from it at the end of the day exactly i don't have to deal with the wins and losses people are always like how can i like why can't why can't derrick admit this guy's not good yeah like the ability to just be like oh that's tough he'll get him next week is it's a great equalizer last one here we're talking we're gonna talk about the minnesota vikings today and we're gonna talk about the minnesota vikings in a very specific way because on the preview show derek tried to put an embargo on jj mccarthy talk because it's all the same and what else is there new to say and dave refused to let that happen the vikings look awful in a 23 to six loss to the Packers in this game.

1:21:01JJ McCarthy's EPA per drop back is the sixth worth, sixth worth, sixth worst mark in a game this season. It is just the latest low light and what has been a parade of them for him in the Vikings passing game. So because you were the one that did not support the moratorium, David, you are the one who has to lay out what happened in this game for JJ McCarthy and the Vikings offense. This is on you. I really walked into this. It's like, uh, it's the meme where the guy's like me, me reaping. Yeah, this rules me. So, oh, this sucks. And watching this back on Sunday evening sucked. Um, not only was this the sixth worst game of the year by a quarterback, JJ has three of the 20 worst.

1:21:45So every game that an NFL quarterback has started this year for any team, JJ has got three of the 20 worst starts. And you know what I kept thinking during this game, Robert, two, two thoughts. Number one, the Vikings did what they could to not put this on him. Like they ran the ball fairly well in this game, Aaron Jones and Jordan Mason, both, they had a top five rushing success rate for the weekend, 20 carries 93 yards. They did their, they did their best and 23 points against the green Bay Packers, the defense considering what they were getting out of their offense, I thought put up a pretty good fight as well.

1:22:23But when JJ's dropbacks look like this, I don't know what you're supposed to do. And the big thing I kept thinking was listening back to y 'all do the hangover last week, Robert was talking about how frantic it felt and JJ just needing to calm down. I felt like he took that advice, but he took it like way too literally. I 100 % agree with that. It was one of my first thoughts while rewatching this game is that he was hopping around the pocket in exaggerated ways for the last two games. And in this game, he did not move. He, he looked like, like, it looked like his inner monologue was like, okay, JJ, remember what we talked about?

1:23:04Like, get to the top of your drop, do this, like, look here. Like, and like, by the time he got done thinking about what he was supposed to be calmly doing, Micah Parsons or Devante Wyatt was, was running through his face. Like he slowed it down too much. And like the whole time, rewatching his dropbacks this, this evening, I was like, dude, we, we gotta go. You, you gotta go. Like, look, look at this play. If you're watching on YouTube, the, the number of like three and a half to four second holds where it's like the ball has to come out. And if you watch this game on Fox with the sound at all, Greg Olson between Matt Lafleur playing conservative as hell, because he knew he could get away with it.

1:23:44And JJ McCarthy, just really struggling to play NFL quarterback, Greg Olson was at his wits end. Like he was so fed up with JJ McCarthy, just not having his internal clock calibrated correctly. And that's, that's what it looked like all day long, man, five sacks. And the, the, the picks didn't come until late, probably because he wasn't letting go of the ball often enough, but yeah, it was like a course correction gone way too far. The second pick, I mean, the first pick is arm gets hit the second pick. I think he's trying to throw it to the clear out route on dagger, but the guy's not open. So I just like, don't, I'm not exactly sure what, what would compel you to throw that ball because that's not how the progression is supposed to work as far as I understand it.

1:24:34And so the idea that like, it's the wrong choice and it's a, it's a choice that makes no sense. And it's a horrendous throw. It's coming from two different directions. and where I land with this is I want to give a guy some grace. That's like six or seven starts into his career. When it comes to like slamming the door on him, the Vikings are not in that position. A lot of the time when you're drafting a guy in the top 10 and he's having some growing pains, you're a team that's at step one or step two of the process. The Vikings are not in a spot where they can see this through. You can't go into next season with him.

1:25:13him as your starter if it continues this way. And I think that's kind of the point that we're reaching because there's no way, based on all the other talent you've assembled and what your goals are, considering how the last couple of seasons have gone and also just the way that you built the roster, that you can continue to do it this way. Like somebody else will have to be the starting quarterback for the Vikings next year or the presumptive starter heading into the season if it continues going down this road. And I think that says as much about their timeline as it does about J.J. McCarthy and the quality of his play.

1:25:43I mean, there's an interesting conversation to be had about that in the offseason. I'd go as far as to say, can you do this for six more weeks? Like if it looks like this, how many more times can it look like this? What's the alternative, though? Yeah, I mean, I don't know the answer. I guess find out what Max Brosmer's got going on. I don't know. But what does that do for you? Other than like maybe salvaging some morale? yeah like i think i worry about it from the very real perspective of of convincing the locker room you're doing everything that you can if you're getting this type of quarterback play on a regular basis so how pumped are you guys for mac jones 2026 vikings quarterback oh i don't like that thought the number of times we are going to see the clip of kevin o 'connell telling anthony richardson that he believes in him between now and march you can't do you can't do that yeah you can't rather do that i understand that but i think if you're the vikings in this scenario this is about floor not ceiling if you want to draft another guy later that's fine i think i think this becomes a floor not ceiling consideration for this team all right let's talk about what made us feel romantic in week 12 of the nfl before we get out of here i mean this thing was a a thing of beauty.

1:27:06So the Giants took the Lions to overtime in a game that the Lions probably deserve to lose. But on the first game of overtime, Jameer Gibbs topped off an incredible game already by on the first play, taking one straight to the house. And like on this play, Panay Sewell climbs to the second level, takes out a linebacker. And when they show it from like the back, like the end zone cam, as Penny Sewell is like whipping back around, you can see him throw his arms up knowing that it's a touchdown because it's Jameer Gibbs versus one safety down the middle. Of course, he's going to score there. And so my immediate thought was like, God, Jameer Gibbs is incredibly cool.

1:27:44And then my second thought was that play should end a football game. We have to go back to sudden death in overtime, like a play that cool where Jameer Gibbs on the first play takes it like 80 yards and ends it game over everybody go home lights off like that should be the end of the game but the Giants get the ball back I'm like that feels for the playoffs obviously you have to keep it going but for the regular season man cut it like it's game over I 100 % agree with this because that was my first reaction to it as well like I if you want to do other it shouldn't be southern sudden death overtime period like that's fine to me like I don't think it should be sudden death.

1:28:23I don't think you should be able to kick a field goal, win an NFL game, but in the regular season, if you score a touchdown on the opening drive, I do think that it should end the game. And this is the perfect example of it. Like there should be no more football game after that Jameer Gibbs touchdown. I I'm sure there are good arguments on the other side of it, but what does your heart tell you? And your heart tells you in that moment that the game should be over. Your heart tells you it's done. That guy just killed the other team game over everybody go home take the ball and it that's not what actually happens it stinks that that's how it works I don't like it that's and that's the other part of it is it it takes away from that moment yes like the fact that that is not a walk-off touchdown it like it diminishes it somehow and it should not be diminished like if you score a touchdown in overtime that way the game should end I'm absolutely with you on this the rule exists so that Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen don't have to not touch the ball in overtime of a playoff game.

1:29:20It doesn't play. It's great. Yeah. Yeah. Playoffs fine. No, regular season week 12. Come on. It's, it's a phenomenal rule for the divisional round and onward, you know, but in week 12, I'm sorry to my giants fans. Like did, would anybody have cared if Jameis Winston didn't have a chance to rebut? I would not have. So I'm with you. My, what, uh, how can, how could you not be romantic about football in week 12 was going to be about the Browns defensive line taking over that game. It's going to shift a little bit because Chip Kelly just got fired, which I'm not celebrating in any way, by the way, I want to make that clear before we dig into this.

1:29:59I think that there's something, even if you can't be romantic about it, there is something that is specific to football in a way that I, I appreciate. And that's that the game will humble you very, very quickly. It takes a lot to stay at the top. And I've always appreciated it about that. I've always appreciated that about this sport and about the NFL, period. Chip Kelly was hired by the Raiders and made the most expensive offensive coordinator in the NFL this offseason. The Raiders paid him$6 million to be their play caller because of the job that he did at Ohio State and winning the national championship last year.

1:30:39he lasted 12 weeks he did not make it to thanksgiving there are plenty of other issues with the raiders this is not all on chip kelly the raiders are an absolute dumpster fire i don't know where they go from here i'm not sure how you could bring this staff back i'm also not sure how you could fire them after one year after what happened with the antonio pierce thing so they're between a rock and a hard place but this is just such a reminder of it's hard to stay at the top for very long things change very very quickly and i don't think there's any purer expression of what life in the nfl as a coach is than that tough business it really is it really is well compensated at this level fortunately for six million dollars for 12 weeks of work is pretty good you can get it it's not bad but also shout out miles garrett for being just like we said in shouting distance of the sack record with six weeks to play.

1:31:36That's going to be fun. Yeah, I think there are going to be some people who are confused that we did not talk about the performance of the quarterbacks in this game. All I'll say is that in this game that the Browns won 24 to 10, they had a 25.5 % offensive success rate and a 24 % drop back success rate. So I'll talk about the Browns offense when I think that the quality of the play for everybody is important to the long-term future of the Cleveland Browns. I do not think that yet. For further context on the Ravens, going back to them, the Ravens success rate for the week was sandwiched in between Cleveland and Las Vegas.

1:32:18So. That's why they were in WTF and we're not talking about the performances of the Browns or the Raiders. Dave, what made you feel romantic about football in week 12? We already talked about it, but I mean, really, there were three of them in the Dallas, in the Dallas, Philadelphia game. But the one that really stood out, the George Pickens 43 yarder off of Cooper DeJean's head. And like I said, Devante Smith had one. CeeDee Lamb had one. That type of physical ability like and Jameer Gibbs is very similar. It's just a different sort of alien. But these alien receivers who can make these sorts of plays where you go 43 yards downfield, you corkscrew up and pick the football off of another grown man's helmet and come down with it and make the catch and make it look easy.

1:33:09It's like why you like why you watch this stuff and why it spikes your adrenaline. My fiance was in the kitchen next to where I was watching the games when that happened. And I just started screaming. And she's like, ah, ah, she's like, oh my God, what's wrong with you? And I was like, George Pickens, I don't know. I don't know what I just saw. And I did that like all afternoon long in that Dallas-Philadelphia game. And it's, I freaking love it. I love stuff like that. It's like, I mean, I know these guys are people. They're humans just like us. They're fallible. They make mistakes. but they have superhuman ability on the football field.

1:33:53And it is a thrill to watch them do their stuff at the highest level, like George Pickens did on Sunday. The deep corner he catches is the coolest catch. But my favorite is the dig he caught, like I think in the second half where he runs through the corner, like bullies him through the inside of the route, catches the ball and just turns around and points at him in the ground. I'm like, that's George Pickens. That's incredible. It's funny that you say that because my two reactions, the CD lamb catch. I had that reaction to, where I was like, this is insane. Like the body control. And then the other one where I was telling my wife about it is the play that it was actually an incompletion for AJ Brown, where he has the presence of mind wall turning to stick the ball out at the pylon.

1:34:32Yep. Yep. That was insane. Just casually one handing a football while he's being tackled by another grown man and just making it look routine. Yeah. Yeah. It's there was, there were plenty of those in this game. All right, before we get out of here let's talk about what we learned from week 12. You know I think I've learned something today. I don't spend a ton of time on this. My lesson from week 12 is that this was a terrible year to start the table bit. Probably the worst year since like 2021 maybe like the COVID year like. Come on guys how bad could it be? We know who the contenders are. Yeah, we sure do.

1:35:12Yeah, we know who they all are. We have a great we have a great feeling about everyone at our table right now. Every single make it really fun. Every single thing that's happened since we cut the table down has made me feel like the dumbest boy in school. I swear to God. Even the teams who want outside of the Chiefs beating another team that was like really good and in contention for it, like the Patriots were in contention. They barely beat the Bengals. The Seahawks play a much closer game against the Titans than they should have. Obviously, the Bills lost on Thursday night. Like it just most of these teams did not cover them.

1:35:45So the Ravens, like we talked about earlier, had a really weird game. Like most of these teams that we think are like in the top quartile of the league did not cover themselves in glory this week. It makes it more dangerous for us, but it makes the league more fun overall. And so it was a bad year to start the table, but it makes me very excited about what the final six or so weeks of the NFL season are going to look like. So we've got that to look forward to. Speaking of Titans Seahawks, we're going to hit that game on the hangover tomorrow. We're also going to talk about Bengals Patriots on the hangover tomorrow.

1:36:14For now, that is all we've got. We've got a slightly different schedule this week. I'll lay it out for you guys tomorrow because I can't even remember exactly what it is. It's one in the morning right now, but we will still have plenty of shows coming your guys's way during the holiday week. Just slightly different than it would be in a normal one. So we will lay all that out for you on the hangover show tomorrow. For now, that is all we've got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.