Week 3 preview: Rams-Eagles, Lions-Ravens light up the marquee

0:00Derrik Klassen: Monday.com AI agents took over my work and I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. I stay in the loop only when it matters. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show.

0:36Derrik Klassen: See terms at discover.com slash credit card.

0:41Dave Helman: Alienware's back to school event is the perfect time to score top gaming gear with incredible features and intel core processors to go beyond performance save big on gaming desktops laptops and more start your alienware journey with the alienware 15 gaming laptop featuring intel core processors smoothly game live stream and multitask for hours on end plus play through every game exactly how you want with customizable AlienFX lighting across your Alienware ecosystem, creating your very own gaming profile, and more. Finally, pair your incredibly smooth gaming experience with immersive visuals and sound by saving on sleek Alienware monitors, headsets, and more.

1:28Dave Helman: This limited-time sale awaits you now at Alienware.com slash deals. That's Alienware.com slash deals.

1:42Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. The Week 3 preview is here. Me, Dave Hellman, Derek Klassen, breaking down the biggest matchups of Week 3. Have a phenomenal Rams-Eagles game to kick us off. Talked about whether the Rams deserve a seat at the table based on how their first couple games have went. I'm going to let you guys listen to that conversation to hear the answer. Also talked about the Lions and the Ravens, two teams that bounced back in a big way in Week 2. We had two games of the week this week. picked one thing from a couple of fun matchups from the slate in week three, Cardinals, Niners, Broncos, Chargers, Texans, Jags, spent some time on sicko street, trying to convince you guys to watch a couple of games that you may not care about whatsoever.

2:23Robert Mays: We got Spencer Rattler against the Seahawks defense. I'm really glad that Derek is here because he is perfectly positioned to do any Spencer Rattler propaganda we could ever want to hear. So he tried to sell us on that one. And then I tried to let you know why you should watch a Jake Browning against Carson Wentz, even if it seems like that game is a pretty big letdown. And we also got our first take tribunal of the season. Derek has some thoughts about the Pittsburgh Steelers to this point so far. Really enjoyed this show. Thank you guys well as well. Let's get to it right now.

2:58Robert Mays: It's the week three preview here on the athletic football show. We have plenty of great stuff to get to today, but let's kick it off with the games of the week presented by BetMGM. The Eagles and the Rams, the Eagles are minus three and a half in this game. When we figure out how we want to get into these games of the week, Dave, we always kind of ask, why is this the game of the week? I think that's kind of how we want to frame this. And with this one, it's pretty easy. The Eagles are the defending Super Bowl champions. And I think through two weeks, the Rams look like potential Super Bowl contenders.

3:30Robert Mays: And that brings us to an interesting point to start this show because we did an exercise this offseason where we called it a seat at the table. We picked 10 teams that we thought were definitive Super Bowl contenders heading into the year. And we had to leave some teams off that were probably right on the edge. And the Rams were one of those teams. The entire exercise with this is that at any point this season, any three of us could raise our hand and say, okay, do we want to revisit the teams that we have at the table? And two weeks into the year, Dave, I really do think it's time to have the conversation about whether the Rams belong at the table.

4:05Robert Mays: Are you raising your hand right now? I'm raising my hand. After re-watching the way that Matthew Stafford, Puka Nakua, and Devontae Adams played against the Titans, seeing some of the flashes from the Rams' defense, the fact that Matthew Stafford is healthy, that was the big question. When we dismissed them during the initial seat at the table conversation, it was because Matthew Stafford, we didn't know when he was going to play. They made it sound like he was dying. Yes, it was.

4:27Derrik Klassen: We saw the trailer. We talked a lot about the Airstream in the Rams parking lot.

4:32Robert Mays: As we learn more about it, it did seem like it was probably a similar back-end issue to one he's been dealing with for a while, and we just heard a little bit more about it. Either way, we left them off because we were worried about a 37-year-old quarterback's back. Right now, his back looks just fine. He's playing about as well as any quarterback in the league. Do we think the Rams deserve a seat at the table? One caveat with this. A listener suggested this to me right after we did the initial conversation, and I actually love it as a rule because it really ups the stakes. Once we remove a team from the table, we cannot put them back in.

5:06Robert Mays: And so that actually makes these decisions much harder, but I do think it's worth doing this right now with the Rams.

5:13Derrik Klassen: I hate that as a rule. I don't want to have to be beholden to something I say in September, but it does raise the stakes. You know what's funny? I just want to throw this out there. I want to give him some love. I debated bringing Tampa to the table this week. I debated it on Monday night, but it's terrible luck. But Cody Mock is now out for the year. Luke Kadecki gets hurt during that game and Tristan Wirfs isn't back yet. So right as I'm ready to just throw 104 over the plate and say like, yes, the Bucs are a Super Bowl team. Their offensive line is in worse shape than it already was. And I can't do that.

5:53Derrik Klassen: So it lets us off the hook. It lets us off the hook. It does. Now the Rams. I'm interested because I think they're playing as well as any team in the league right now. Stafford is healthy. But the thing that held me back with the Rams was I said it. You can go find it in that episode. I said, I'm not worried about Stafford playing against the Texans. I'm worried about Stafford holding up over 17 weeks. So it's been two. It looks freaking awesome. It looks like everything we hoped it would be. is it too early to just assume that that's not going to be an issue for the next 15 weeks? That's my only pause.

6:26Robert Mays: But what's different about this than it's been over the last couple of years? It doesn't seem like there's not much that's materially different about the situation.

6:33Dave Helman: Yeah, I think the reason it was different this year is because we thought week one, it wouldn't be like we weren't sure if he would even play.

6:38Robert Mays: So the fact that he's playing, it really doesn't seem all that different. And their offense with him and Puka and Devontae, I believe that they probably deserve a part of this conversation. And the reason that I'm so forceful about this is the problem here and the difficulty here is taking a team out. We have the Bengals in like I don't have an issue taking the Bengals out considering Joe Burrow is about to mess the next three months.

7:00Derrik Klassen: That's what's going to make me OK with this decision. If the Bengals had Joe, I would not be ready for this conversation.

7:06Robert Mays: But well, the Texans are also at the table. I'm not probably have taken the Texans off.

7:10Derrik Klassen: I will stand right here. I am holding on to the Texans. I'm not ready to take them.

7:15Robert Mays: The only reason that you're willing to put the Rams to the table is because we have an easy one to take out in the Bengals. You would not be ready to do it with Houston. Basically.

7:21Derrik Klassen: No, I'm not ready. And look, I watched Monday night. I know I didn't do the recap show. I watched every snap. I know that that maybe sounds silly, but it's early September. I'm not ready to just write the Texans off as a team. The Texans looked fine against this Rams team that we're very excited about right now. So I am not willing to shut it down on Houston yet. Joe not being on the Bengals until December. And Derek and I talked about it on the Hangover. The dominoes that would have to fall into place for Joe Burrow to be able to get back and have the Bengals still be relevant and have him hit the ground running immediately after a toe injury, all that good stuff.

8:02Derrik Klassen: It's a little far-fetched for me. and it sadly makes me willing to pull the plug on the Bengals, even if it's only September 18th. Where are you at?

8:12Dave Helman: So I'm pretty much in the same boat. Like with Houston, like I think if we weren't having the rule of like, you can't put them back in, I would probably put the Rams over them right now. But with the rule of like, you can't put them back in, I'm like, I'll give you still a little bit more time. With the Bengals, let's say Joe misses the next 11 games. They would have to go like six and five for them to be in a good spot to be like they can get into the playoffs.

8:32Derrik Klassen: Yeah, they got to be near or above 500. Yeah. And then go like 4-0 once he gets back, maybe 3-1. I think that's possible. I just don't know if I'm willing to... Exactly.

8:43Robert Mays: I don't know if I'm willing to bet on it when the Rams look like this. It seems silly. And I know it's only been two weeks. It seems silly to be doing this and to not at least put up the idea of the Rams getting inclusion.

8:54Dave Helman: And here's my other case here. Let's say Joe Burrow, like they get to wherever they need to be with Joe Burrow and Joe Burrow comes back at the end, whatever. I think in the case that even like if Matthew Stafford has a stretch where he doesn't get to play for eight weeks, I think they'd probably be fine with Jimmy, given the way that the offense is constructed. And I also think the defense is much better than Cincinnati's. It is for sure.

9:13Robert Mays: The Rams. Yes, that's fair. That part is fair. But if the Rams lose Matthew Stafford for eight weeks, we'll have a conversation about who should go in over the Rams.

9:21Dave Helman: I probably agree with that. But like, I don't think that they would be in like a worse spot really than the Bengals are with like Jake Browning.

9:27Robert Mays: All right. So what are we doing this? Are we putting the Rams to the table and taking the Bengals out? You are in pain over there.

9:32Derrik Klassen: I will do this under protest, but yes, I'm okay with it. It feels really early in the season to permanently remove anybody. And like, how am I going to feel if Jake Browning, I mean, they play, we're going to talk about it. They get to play Carson Wentz this week. Like the Bengals could start three and oh, and like maybe in two weeks we'll be like, they'll at least be 500 when Joe gets back. It feels early, but I think the Rams look good enough that I'm fine with it. even though I'm in pain. The Rams look like a Super Bowl contender.

10:03Robert Mays: The Eagles still do, even if it's been a little ugly over the first couple weeks of the season. Looking up some of the numbers last night, just about this Eagles offense and the way they've felt over the first two weeks, they have three completions of 10 plus yards this season. Three in two games.

10:20Dave Helman: And one was just Jalen Hurst, like throwing up a balloon for Devonta Smith.

10:24Robert Mays: Two of them had been. And then the one big post to Jahan Dotson. The post to Jahan Dotson, yeah. I think it's important to try to extricate the two games, though, and talk about that approach in both games. In game one, that was not an issue, right? In game one, that's how they should have been moving the ball against the Cowboys. You can see it just in the numbers. 57.6 % drop back success rate for the Eagles in week one, despite not being able to push the ball down the field. Week two, that's when it goes from being the correct approach to a problem. It was 36 % in week two. They've been doing it ugly.

10:57Robert Mays: And there have been times over the last couple of years when the Eagles have kind of hit the skid when on offense where it's looked a little bit disjointed. They've been trying to find themselves. It happened under a new offensive coordinator in 23, the same way they have a new offensive coordinator. Now, the difference for me, Derek, and why I'm just not overly concerned yet about what the offense looks like. They can win these games ugly because the defense is hellacious.

11:20Dave Helman: The defense is like it's still so insane. And I think we there are still some concerns that we had about it and some of the concerns that we came into the season with. Like, what does corner two look like? Like, is the safety room going to come around? Which actually that one, I think, has been helped a little bit. Like Andrew Makuba looks good. Makuba was crazy last week. Makuba looks good. He made the play of the game.

11:37Derrik Klassen: It's mainly about circumstances that he was there for that tip pass. But he was there to play the game. He gets the stop on Hollywood Brown.

11:44Robert Mays: He's the dime linebacker, which was a beautiful play. Him coming downhill on Hollywood Brown. Like he jumped off the screen. That was the thing that really jumped out to me in that game. is that the physicality gap between the Eagles defense and the Chiefs offense all over the place. Cooper DeGene puts Hollywood Brown in the ground on the first drive of that game. And there were so many moments like this. J-Link's hunked, punked Juwan Taylor multiple different times in this game. And the fact that the Eagles defense has that gear, Derek, but also they have this varied identity they can tap into.

12:15Robert Mays: The fact that they could play all that man and blitz that much against the Chiefs after not doing any of it against the Cowboys, I just love the flexibility and the talent level on that team when you have Vic Fangio I think they can weaponize that defense in a way they couldn't at other stretches where the offense was struggling

12:30Dave Helman: a little bit and I think that there's a couple of reasons for that one like I think it helps that Makuba has stepped in and can immediately handle some of the stuff that like Vic asks a lot of his safeties and for him to be able to step in and handle a lot of that I think has been really helpful I think just getting more time for the young DBs has been helpful like Mitchell looks really good this year at DeGene I really think he is the best nickel in the league like I true like If I had to really make the list, he might be number one.

12:52Robert Mays: Now that Kyle Hamilton is playing safety full time, I think that makes it a little bit easier. But I would hear that argument.

12:58Dave Helman: Like he's just, the way that he tackles, the way that he, you know, handles space, like I just think he's a phenomenal player. And then I think their linebacker room now, like obviously Zach Bond did what he did last year and he's an incredible blitzer, incredible coverage player. But I think because some of the way that Campbell can kind of cover the middle of the field a little bit and also be a versatile piece, like the Chiefs game was funny. There was a certain point kind of in the middle of the game, I want to say like end of the second half, early into the third quarter, they threw Zach Bond at Kingsley.

13:23Dave Helman: So Matai, like seven times, they were just like, we're going to make this like effectively rookie offensive lineman just handle this really good blitzer. And he never did. And so the fact that they can mix and match with, with all that sort of stuff. And also the other complaint I had about this team was they're a little small on the edge. Well, he signs Adarius Smith. You already feel he looked pretty good. Problem solved.

13:42Robert Mays: Yeah. Problem solved. Let's get into kind of the nitty gritty on both sides of the ball in this game between the Eagles and the Rams. Let's talk about when the Eagles have the ball in this game. Dave, last year, the Eagles had their way with the Rams on the ground in both of those games. And the explosive runs are really what did the Rams in both the regular season and when we got into the playoffs. What are you looking at in terms of why this might be a little bit different with this Eagles ground game against the Rams run defense?

14:05Derrik Klassen: Well, I applaud the schedule makers. I would assume they did this on purpose to give us this game this early in the season. And the other thing that I think is worth mentioning for why this game is so intriguing, the Rams gave the Eagles their best shot in the playoffs last year. They were the only team that really even came close. And it was the run game that did them in. And in March, we probably did it on this show, like live in the moment, as the Rams were making their free agent signings. They get Puna Ford and they signed Nate Landman. And everybody was like, oh, the Rams don't want to do that again.

14:38Derrik Klassen: Like the Rams are going to fix this run defense and not give up these explosive plays. And now we get to find out just how well that's going to work just three games into the season. So we don't have to wait. We don't have to worry too much about injury attrition. This is the vision the Rams had, and we're going to get to see how well it works. And so far, it's been pretty good. L.A.'s third in the league in rushing success rate. They're middle of the pack in EPA per play, which is fine. I mean, they overmatched their most recent opponent anyway. So it's looking good. Landman, 18 tackles. He's got a fumble recovery and a forced fumble through the first two weeks of the season.

15:13Derrik Klassen: I went back and watched Puna Ford. He's been he's been solid. I don't think he's been amazing, but he's doing what he was signed to do.

15:21Dave Helman: Solid is better than what they had.

15:23Derrik Klassen: Exactly. Like he is a solid player, which is what they need. I mean, you're not kidding, Robert. Saquon Barkley, four touchdowns of 60 plus yards against L.A. last season.

15:34Robert Mays: They had eight runs of 15 plus miles per hour in the game in the divisional playoff game. Just the divisional? Eight runs of 15 plus miles per hour in the divisional game. The Eagles had a 40 % rushing success rate in the game and averaged like seven yards a carry. Excuse me, 8.4 while having a 40 % success rate. You need to be pretty explosive to pull that off.

15:53Derrik Klassen: I thought Saquon, I think it was this week, like for this game, he made an interesting point that you would assume a running back doesn't want to play against a stacked box because there's just more bodies. And Saquon basically was like, yeah, it's harder. You got to be on your stuff a little bit more. But if you can break those, there's nobody left to get you. And that's like, go back and watch those snaps against the Rams. They had a neutral or heavy and occasionally a stacked box for all of those major touchdowns. Like Saquon broke, I think it was his the second long one in the regular season game against Philly.

16:28Derrik Klassen: There were 10 guys in the box and it wasn't enough to stop him from going virtually untouched. So they just needed to upgrade the presence in the middle of this defense. And like I said, they made their two big signings on the defensive side of the ball. We're geared at this. And now we get to see how well it worked.

16:46Robert Mays: The other guy I would throw out there that really impressed me when I went back and watched the Titans game last night, Tyler Davis, who is a six round pick from 2024, getting a little bit more run now. Obviously, Bobby Brown moves on in free agency. You know, that's a deep group now. And the fact that you kind of have these like hockey lines with their interior players. And I know Brayden Fisk is banged up right now. But with Braden Fisk and Kobe Turner, you have these slasher penetrating types. And then when Puna Ford and Tyler Davis are on the field together, they really are like run stuffing bodies.

17:15Robert Mays: And I was very impressed with Tyler Davis throughout that Titans game. Multiple really nice plays against the run, holding up against double teams, had a couple pressures. Like if that group can go four deep now compared to what it looked like last year and you get slightly better linebacker play, I do think there's reason to believe that the Rams defense is going to run defense is going to be better over time.

17:33Dave Helman: I really think it should be, too. And like it was honestly even slightly better at the end of last year, even though it was still kind of an issue for them. And so now that they've got Puna Ford in the mix, they've got Tyler Davis, which is all funny because a lot of their defensive tackles are like really sawed off. Like Puna Ford is sawed off. Tyler Davis has some of the shortest arms in the league, like Braden Fisk. That was the whole thing with him coming out. So it's kind of funny that they've made it work with that. But all those guys are, even though they've proven they can like hold up against double teams and stuff.

17:58Dave Helman: Part of the reason they can hold up against double teams is they're very explosive off the ball. So they just boom, shoot two hands in each guy's chest. And it's like, then they can hold it from there. So they've done really well there. I think this matchup is really interesting too, because obviously last year the Eagles were maybe safe for Baltimore, the best rushing team in the NFL. This year, that is not really the case. Like they've still been good and it's certainly part of their identity. But I think with Landon Dickerson not being himself right now, that has hurt them a little bit. And then I think Tyler Steen has not been like bad.

18:26Dave Helman: He's obviously a first year starter, but I think not moving people the way that Becton did last year. And so I think that they've been a little bit worse. Like I know against, I looked it up on True Media against Too High Shell specifically. They're averaging about like a yard and a half less against those looks than they did last year, which obviously last year.

18:42Derrik Klassen: So they're merely, they're merely good.

18:45Dave Helman: It's still four and a half yards a carry. I'm still fine. I'll say this.

18:48Robert Mays: Saquon right now is averaging 3.7 yards per carry. He has a 40 % rushing success rate, which is definitively below average. Lead average is like 43%. Their run game has not been very good. I think the interior offensive line concerns, absolutely something to bring up. Landon Dickerson has not looked healthy. Steen seems like a work in progress. The other part that I think really jumped out to me, some of these more condensed formations they're playing in with multiple tight ends. Calcaterra on the backside of these runs is like a defined negative. And they were doing something against the Chiefs last week that I want to see them do more of, where they're actually having Calcaterra specifically on the backside.

19:25Robert Mays: he'll like influence step inside and then come back out and they'll leave the edge unblocked and so I think you need to account for the unblocked edge some way if you're the Eagles run game whether it's shotgun runs with Hurts being able to account for him if he wants to keep it or some of the stuff that they were doing with Calcaterra because they just do not have the physicality in the tight end room especially with Goddard Hurt it's been a problem like it's continually led to negative plays for them in the run game that's honestly so good to bring up because

19:53Dave Helman: two of, I think they might have been the two best Eagles runs against the Chiefs where they were in 12 personnel, one tight end to each side, and they took the right tight end, motioned him over to the left side so that the backers get a little bit influenced that way. And then Calcaterra does the thing that you're talking about where he steps in and goes out. So you've got two guys going all the way to the left, influences the second level, and they were able to hit it both times.

20:12Robert Mays: You need more trick-em-dick-em with this group than you think considering the offensive line personnel. And I think that's just a place they're not used to being, but that's how it's felt over the first couple weeks. In the passing game here, this is an interesting matchup because we talked about it. The Eagles passing offense has not even tried to be explosive this year. They have five pass attempts of 10 plus air yards this year.

20:37Derrik Klassen: Five. We talked about it on the recap show. Also, those are all like deep shots, right? They're not passing intermediately at all to this point in the year.

20:45Robert Mays: No intermediate passing. If you look at the rest of the league, Like, no other team in the league has fewer than 10 or 14 of those. The Eagles have five. And so at some point, they got to be able to push the ball down the field or at least try to push the ball down the field. And this seems like the week, based on the Rams defensive back personnel, I want to see what A.J. Brown can do on the outside. Alec Ayamanor bullied Emmanuel Forbes last week. Akele Weatherspoon's on IR now. Kobe Durant and Emmanuel Forbes are now the starting outside corners for the Rams. And even if it's not those two guys, it's Darius Williams.

21:18Robert Mays: We're talking about like 5 '10 at best and a lot of undersized dudes. If this is not the game where A.J. Brown is going to be bullying people on the outside, I don't know when it's going to come.

21:29Derrik Klassen: You know how like oftentimes in football matchups, we'll say like the best corner is going to shadow the best receiver a lot of times. Like they'll follow him around. The Rams need to be like Forbes, go to where A.J.'s not. Like get away from A.J. Brown.

21:42Robert Mays: Devontae Smith and Emmanuel Forbes is actually a fair fight. Yeah, go deal with Devontae Smith.

21:46Derrik Klassen: Like just go wherever you see AJ go to the other side of the field,

21:49Robert Mays: please. I love Mina made a joke about Devante Smith at one point when she, there's something along the lines of like, he's the best NFL player that has the same size pants as me. Like if they, if you're wearing the same size pants, you should be matched up against each other in this game. And that is Devante Smith and Emmanuel Forbes. So I think that's like the DB wide receiver matchup to watch. Up front to me is definitely a huge driving force of this game. Obviously Jalen Hurts, I believe took seven sacks in that divisional round game. And the Rams defensive line is no less of a problem now than it was at that point.

22:19Robert Mays: I honestly think they look better in those passing situations than they did even last year because Byron Young looks phenomenal through two games. And so now you got him, Jared Verse. And I think what really sticks out to me when I watch the Rams pass defense is that they are so, they're such a unique challenge up front. They're doing stuff in combination that really no other team in the league is doing. They're only blitzing, the only blitz hurts on 30 % of his dropbacks last year in the playoffs. They still had a 43 % pressure rate. But even when they're not blitzing, per Cody Alexander's stats at match quarters, which is a lot of like granular defensive stats that are really interesting, the Rams lead the league in simulated pressure rate right now.

22:58Robert Mays: They were number one in the league in week two. They were one of three teams in week two with a blitz rate over 25 % and a stunt rate over 20%. And so there are so many moving parts up front combined with the talent that they have. They're going to send a million twists at Tyler Steen over the course of this game. and we're going to find out whether he can hold up.

23:16Dave Helman: And they should, because I think if I have two issues with, or two things that have given the Eagles issues so far this season is one, I think Hurts has regressed against the Blitz again. I think he really, especially last week, really struggled to replace a lot of the stuff that Spags was throwing at him. And again, Spags is great. And they were throwing a lot more of like cover zero, which is not necessarily what the Rams do, but still trying to figure out where body's coming from. How can I replace it? Can I be on time? I think that could be an issue. And also cover two has really given the Eagles a lot of issues this year because they love talking about that intermediate area, throwing the middle of the field, like between the numbers has never been Jalen Hurts' thing, but he loves throwing those 15-yard outs, those sail routes, all that stuff.

23:53Dave Helman: Teams have just been like, we'll sit in cover too, and like, are you really going to try to throw it over this flat corner? And in a lot of cases, he hasn't this year. And so I think they've got to find some sort of other answer because the Rams will play cover too, and they will throw Sims at you.

24:05Robert Mays: Let's move to the other side of the ball. Let's move through this one pretty quickly because we spent a lot of time talking about the seat at the table. I have a fun little circle of football life point that I want to start us off with here. So in 2017, when Sean McVay got to Los Angeles, the Rams played a very specific brand of football. We all know this, right? So in 2017, they were 55.5 % under center and 17 % play action per next-gen stats. Both of those were tops in the league. That was the Jared Goff offense. And then when Stafford got there, things opened up a little bit. They became more of a gun team and more of a straight drop-back team.

24:34Robert Mays: In 2023, that kind of reached its height. They were 37.5 % under center compared to 55 % in 2017. and they were 11.4 % play action, which was a bottom five rate in the entire NFL, okay? Fast forward two years, through two games so far this season, the Rams have been under center 61 % of the time and are using play action 24 % of the time. So more than they were in 2017 when Sean McVay got there. So we've come all the way back around to the original version of the Sean McVay offense. And here's the fun part. Guess what exploded that version of the Sean McVay offense and started pushing him to try to retool it and become a little bit more flexible?

25:17Robert Mays: It was playing against Vic Fangio ideas in 2018 that culminated in that Super Bowl loss.

25:23Derrik Klassen: That's like why the Fangio tree is where it is.

25:25Robert Mays: Yes.

25:26Dave Helman: That Bears game is like the ball knowers. Like everybody knows that game. And then the Lions play similar stuff.

25:30Robert Mays: And obviously the Patriots deployed a lot of the same ideas. Well, guess what? Guess who's on the other side now playing against the old school Sean McVay offense. It's Vic Fangio. This shit makes me so happy. It always comes back around. It's so pleasing to my brain when stuff like this happens. So that is the matchups that we get on Sunday.

25:47Derrik Klassen: I admire your ability to contextualize all that. Because when you say it, I'm like, oh, yeah, like that is true. But for me to, while I'm diving into prep for week three of 2025, it's hard for me to think about what the hell was going on in the NFL in 2018. But that is such useful context.

26:04Robert Mays: Well, I look at how they're playing right now. Like there's just so much under center play action. I'm like, I know this. I've seen this.

26:09Derrik Klassen: This reminds me of something. I am. I am bad at noticing things like on in games and on tape in the moment. Like typically I'm the type of person I need to go see it laid out for me statistically, but just watching the Rams this year, you can see it. You're just like, holy shit. They're always under center. And it's a lot of fun. I came up under so many fun shotgun offenses. I think I'm predisposed to preferring that style of football, But not like I get it. I see the light because what they're doing this year is awesome.

26:39Robert Mays: To me, like the most beautiful version of football is like 97, 98 Broncos, 2003, like the Kubiak Texans, like that 2008, 2009 Texans team. Like that to me is like that is the ideal of offensive football. And so to see the Rams go back to that has been very beautiful. There are a couple of different important nuances to point out, though, with the Rams offense, even compared to last year. The structural stuff is partially is part of it, but they were already drifting back to that last year in 2024. You saw those rates start to grow. To me, the major difference with this Rams offense compared to last year and why it matters against this Eagles team is that there were two weaknesses we talked about with the Eagles defense after week one that the Chiefs could not take advantage of.

27:20Robert Mays: Outside the numbers against their cornerback to Dory Jackson, there's nobody on the Chiefs that can take advantage of that and run game, right? Well, I think the Rams are set up to take advantage of the outside cornerback problem in a way that other teams are not because Devontae Adams is now here. And it was so funny watching the Rams on Sunday against the Titans and knowing they went out to get Devontae because they struggled against man coverage last year. They didn't have somebody who could win in those situations. Titans played 32 % man last week. Stafford 8 of 11 for 111 yards. And Devontae had two, like, hooking, luxurious Sneed moments outside the numbers.

27:53Robert Mays: So that to me, Derek, is the number one thing I'm watching on that side of the ball is, are the Rams hunting out Adoree Jackson? And can they take advantage of that matchup in a way that the Chiefs could not?

28:04Dave Helman: Yeah, I think this is Devontae Adams' game like all the way. Because obviously Puganakua is actually the most productive receiver in the league right now. He's leading in, I think it's yards per route run. So obviously he's been doing that for a couple of years now. But I just think against Vic Fangio and the way that these guys play zone and the way that they do all that, I think it's going to be a little bit tougher to do that whereas like Quinone Mitchell is great, but I still think Devontae Adams is a better player. And then in any instance where Devontae Adams gets matched up on not Quinone Mitchell, I think that that's going to be a huge issue for the Eagles.

28:34Dave Helman: So I just think that this is going to be a huge Devontae game. The other thing that's like minorly interesting too about the run game is the last time when Vic Fangio exploded them, it was still a lot of like zone, the weak zone stuff. And so, and that was why all the 6-1 fronts and stuff that he was playing really worked. One, Vic isn't really doing as much of that anymore because he doesn't need to. but also to the Rams run game is different. So like in theory, some of the more duo stuff they want to do would work, but they're just not good enough at it for it to matter. I don't think at this stage,

29:01Robert Mays: this is the biggest problem with me with the Rams offense right now is what is happening with the run game and just up front in general, they're running all of this duo. And so if you look at the numbers, the Rams are 31st in expected yards per carry through two games. Part of that is because when you run all these duo runs and for people who don't know, just like duo is just, you know, multiple double teams up front, it's a straight downhill run. And in order to play that way and be effective, you need like maulers up front. You need like big physical offensive linemen that can change the line of scrimmage in order for those runs to work.

29:31Robert Mays: And the Rams just don't have those. And so I've just been frustrated with the running game over the first couple of weeks because the personnel doesn't really match up with how they want to run the ball. And when you watch the back half of that game against the Titans, they hit a couple of chunk runs and it was all like zone and gap scheme runs that weren't just duo because they can't just do that anymore. And so I do think if you look at the way the Eagles have played up front over the first couple weeks, even if the run defense success rate and everything else has been not that great because of the light boxes, I think personnel wise, it's a definitive matchup advantage for the Eagles in this game pretty much across the board.

30:04Robert Mays: Let's get to our next one here. The Ravens are minus four and a half against the Lions. Week one, Dave, you pointed this out earlier today. I think it's a really good thing to mention. It felt like the worst fear is being realized for both the Ravens fan base and the Lions fan base based on a lot of the conversations that we had coming into this year.

30:26Derrik Klassen: Yeah, I love the symmetry in this matchup because the Lions come in wondering how they're going to replace the coordinators, how they're going to deal with this attrition. It looked rough on both sides of the ball. Your worst fears are confirmed in a loss of the Packers where you're like, oh, my God, did we fall off that much? Did all of our success take the job south to Chicago? Like, what the hell is going on? And the Ravens tripped over themselves, shot themselves in the foot four different ways and lost a game that they had no business losing. So it was like the two most existential fears for both teams came to pass in week one.

30:59Derrik Klassen: And after a week of hand wringing, they got right against division rivals. what 41-17 for Baltimore against Cleveland and 52 they're still scoring against Chicago 52-21 that's what it was uh so it's just funny that they both had their worst fears confirmed against I think what everybody would agree are Super Bowl contender teams and then they sort of get right against teams in their division that aren't as good as them and now we get to find out what's real and what's not when they play each other the last time these two teams played Derek it was one

31:29Robert Mays: of those once a year Raven games where they just absolutely blow the doors off of another playoff team. Like it's an annual thing. Two years ago, they did it to the Lions. They won by 30. And then last year they did it to the Broncos where they went by 30. And I do think that these games kind of loom large in the way that we think about the Ravens, maybe too large. But that last Lions-Ravens game, I think was a very good example of exactly what we're talking about.

31:54Dave Helman: I, to me, I don't think it's too large. Like, I think it is just it's they remind you that they really can be the best team in football. And there are not that many teams that have a game like that a year against like other good teams. Like, you know, sometimes you might have the Bengals just hanging 50 on some terrible team. But like the Ravens consistently are able to do this against really good teams like that Lions game. I remember I think it was week seven, maybe it was. I watched it earlier today. And that was just like, I think for the first six weeks of the season, that was like, OK, the Todd Monk and offense like they're they're finding something here.

32:23Dave Helman: This is kind of cool. and then they have that week seven game and it's like, holy shit, they're going to be really, really cool. And they've only built on it from there. So I think that, I don't know if they're going to do that again this week, but I do have some, you know, we'll talk about the Lions defense in a little bit. And I do think they're doing some stuff well. I do also think that like they got away with some of their blemishes last week by virtue of the game kind of falling out of control for the Bears on the other side.

32:48Robert Mays: I want to start with the Lions offense against the Ravens defense solely because I have not had a chance to talk about the Lions offense because I was not on the Sunday recap show. This is exactly what you wanted to see if you were a Lions fan. Not just the results, but the very specific ways they were able to attack the Bears reminded you of what the Lions offense looked like in 2024. The first chunk play of the game. Amon Rossane Brown is in a cut split on the left side. It's man coverage for the Bears. And he absolutely breaks off Tyreek Stevenson at the top of that route off play action. It's like, there it is.

33:20Robert Mays: Like that's, that's the lions offense I've come to know and love third and four on a, I believe it was in the second quarter. The Amon, I'm going to say Brown is in the backfield. They run the ball out of a pressure look on third and short to medium, get the first down. They did that a million times under Ben Johnson. The next play is an end around to Kalief Raymond in like shot territory that goes for a first down. All of this stuff is like, all right, this is what the lions offense is supposed to feel like. And so I think both in terms of the results and in terms of what they were putting on tape, it felt a lot like the Lions offenses that we have come to know over the last few years.

33:58Dave Helman: And I think to me, it was like so much of what Ben Johnson did really well, right? It was like build concepts on top of each other so that eventually you can hit whatever the big one is. The Jameson Williams post that they hit, they were having multiple of these, like getting two receivers next to each other. Like in the first play that you were mentioning with Amin Ross St. Brown, they would have the kind of inside receiver clear out the middle, outside guy runs the dig behind it. But on the JMO TD, they just have him run the post straight over the top because the corner is sitting and waiting on it.

34:23Dave Helman: They also, over the course of this game, were doing a really good job of what was like a rail post concept where they would take one of the receivers from the right side, fast motion him all the way to the left side, have these two receivers. The inside receiver would run up again on a post and the outside receiver who was in motion sprint up the sideline and fly out. the one that they hit to Jamison Williams on like the over route, he's supposed to be that like inside post player, but he just takes it lower and he's wide open because everyone is waiting high for the post. It's all building on each other.

34:51Dave Helman: It's just all building on each other. It's like they just, in week one, they weren't able to do a lot of that. Week two, it was like, oh yeah, this is what the Lions offense looks like.

34:58Robert Mays: It was such a reminder that Amon Ross St. Brown is truly like a one-of-one player in the NFL. There's no one really like him. And you combine that first play I talked about, the run out of the gun, the touchdown he scores on the pylon, at the pylon, like right before the half. Like the short area of quickness and what he can do in that situation. And then I believe it was on the Jameer Gibbs touchdown in the first drive. He blocks two guys on the Ross St. Proudness. Like there's no one in the NFL like him. It's like full stop.

35:22Derrik Klassen: His versatility combined with the speed that Gibbs and Jameau bring. It's just tough stuff to deal with.

35:30Robert Mays: The run game also got back on track last week for the Lions. 30 for 177. Derek, do you know who the worst run defense in the NFL is by success rate two weeks into the season?

35:39Dave Helman: I looked it up when we were prepping this show, and it is somehow the Baltimore Ravens, which was a concern I had for them, but not to this degree. Yeah, not worse than the league.

35:47Robert Mays: Yeah, even if you had some concerns, like, oh, what do the linebacker look like? And do they have the interior defensive lined up that you want? So if you're trying to pin down why the Ravens have had these issues against the run through two games, what would you zero in on?

36:01Dave Helman: I would definitely say a lot of it. Part of it is that they do like a lot of two high structures, so you kind of just get stuck there a little bit. But I also think part of it is they're having to dig into their depth all across the front. Like Kyle Benoit has missed some time. It was already kind of a thin edge group to begin with. And so I think that that's been a little bit of, it's also like kind of an undersized edge group with like Mike Green in there and stuff. And so I think that's been part of it. And then the defensive interior has been, I think coming into the season, I was like, man, this is a little thin.

36:27Dave Helman: And like Travis Jones can be okay. And so like if he's your third best defensive tackle, that's fine. But, and you know, Justin Matabike is a guy who I think if you get four hands on him, sometimes you can move him. Brodrick Washington, I think, has not been playing well for a couple of years now. Like, they just, the defensive line depth has fallen away a little bit. And then with, behind that, the cascading effect is like, Roquan Smith is not a good put hands on a guard and, like, take back space player. He's a good run-through player. He's a good get to the perimeter, kill screens type of player.

36:55Dave Helman: And so now the fact that I think he's having to, being asked to be a little bit more physical is an issue. And then the two young linebackers playing next to him, their heads are still spinning a little bit. Even if, I think Buchanan is, like, physical, but it's just when he's a step late to some stuff it's like you just don't get the value of it yet

37:09Robert Mays: i like the energy he's playing with and he's playing fast but you can absolutely see gears turning with he's a second off-ball linebacker in his second game probably what they tell him

37:20Derrik Klassen: like hey man just play fast just just try to play with some confidence worry about the rest of it

37:25Robert Mays: later and i think this lions offense presents a unique challenge in that way not only with the run game and what they're going to do to you but just think about the play i just mentioned with the Khalif Raymond end around like they are going to test that eye discipline throughout this entire game and that was one thing that really jumped out to me when I was re-watching the Lions Bears game and the Lions Packers game if you go back and watch week one there's very little motion on the running place like almost none it was a lot of like static runs and the Lions were just not moving the ball on the ground whatsoever against the Bears you've got things flying all over the place we're going jet one way we're running outside zone back the other way the tight end slicing across the formation.

38:03Robert Mays: And that's what I expect to see. It almost felt like the Packers got them a little bit with how they played. The Packers played a ton of man coverage in that game, which they don't really do. And so I don't know if the Lions were necessarily ready for that. And so it just feels like the Lions really needed that settled game against the Bears. I think what they did against Chicago, a lot of those ideas, I think, are exactly how you should try to attack this Ravens defense. One more thing I wanted to point out just in terms of personnel. Nate Wiggins looks awesome, dog. He looks incredibly good.

38:33Robert Mays: In every coverage they're asking him to play, he looks good. On the other side, we made this joke after week one, the Chidobe Alexander right cornerback spot, like the amalgam of veteran corners as we're shoving them into one another. That is an issue right now, and the exact play I talked about where Amon Ross St. Brown is running that in-breaker against Tyreek Stevenson, that's the type of matchup you want to create if you are the Lions in this game. And I do think that that can be a definitive win for them if they can get that more often than not. Because you know what side they're going to be on.

39:03Robert Mays: They play sides with the Ravens, like 85%. And so I do think if you're trying to circle somebody to take advantage of, that's probably the non-rookie linebacker that you're looking at if you're John Morton and that staff.

39:14Derrik Klassen: One other thing I would want to point out is, and I know two years is an eternity, obviously, in the NFL. But Nnamdi Matabike wrecked that Week 7 game. like he he was a force and that was when the Lions offensive line was more experienced we'll say than it is right now and uh Christian Mahogany he's banged up first of all I think he's expected to play in this game but he's dealing with something Tate Ratledge both of them had a long day at the office in week one and much better against the Bears I think this will be a steeper test for them one way or the other and I'm I'm curious to see how that holds up it was funny re-watching both of those games.

39:53Robert Mays: And originally in my notes when I was writing about the Lions offense in week one, I was like, oh, they were having trouble getting to the second level in the run game. They actually weren't. They just weren't getting hands on either of the linebackers when they got to the second level. Like what Cooper and Walker were doing, slipping blocks and just making them look really silly in space, that's not what happened with the Bears. The guys with the Bears, whether it was Edwards or Edmonds, were catching blocks. And you mentioned this, like the Ravens are not, that's not what they want to do. They want to be run through guys.

40:22Robert Mays: And so the Lions run game success has been almost directly correlated to the quality and style of linebacker they've played over the first couple of weeks. And I think this lines up well for them to have something similar that we saw in week two.

40:34Dave Helman: It definitely does. Like again, Roquan Smith is a great linebacker in a lot of ways. But if you put hands on him two yards past the line of scrimmage, he will end up five yards past the line of scrimmage. And that's going to be a huge advantage for the Lions.

40:45Robert Mays: Let's talk about when the Ravens have the ball in this game. They scored 40 points last week, Derek. But I think that 40 points is pretty misleading, given what the rhythms of that game felt like. Just a simple way to kind of frame this. The Browns had a 38 % offensive success rate last week against the Ravens. The Ravens were at 36%. 36 % offensive success rate per next gen, and they scored 40 points in the game. So end result, fine. The process of getting there, I think the Ravens offense has felt uneven in ways we don't necessarily expect from the Ravens offense.

41:17Dave Helman: the Browns game I'm like kind of of two minds about on one hand it's week two and it didn't feel like a very serious game plan to me and what I mean by that is like we know the Browns are going to play a lot of man coverage and over the years the the Ravens have been a little bit up and down and how they've managed man coverage and so it did a little bit feel like to me they went into this game just bringing a lot of their spread stuff and being like what can we get away with man coverage early in the season and it a lot of it was not very good it was way too many shallow routes for my liking but I do think that was at least like part of their thinking it's that's what it felt like to me the part of it where I am legitimately concerned is the offensive line just does not look good I'll give Ronnie Stanley a pass for playing against Miles Garrett because he does that to just about everybody that's the NFL Miles Garrett had in that game where he just

41:58Robert Mays: slips I could not believe it like actual superhero like it looked like Marvel like CGI type shit I rewatched it a hundred times like I don't even know how it's possible for a human being to move

42:08Dave Helman: that way he's like 280 285 and just it looks effortless the way that he can just slip a block and stanley's a good athlete like it's not like he's one of these you know bigger stiffer line it's just crazy and so but all the other four players just like there were a couple times where vorhees was a little bit late climbing to a guy at the second level i think roger rosengarten really got beat up a lot in this game and again the browns have a lot of bigger edge players so they will do that but that's it's still i mean the lions have a lot of those guys and so it's just like this is what you're gonna have to deal with and like the rest of the interior did not really inspire me so the offensive line is a little bit of a concern to me right now at least

42:42Derrik Klassen: in the run game it's very funny that I feel like the Browns defensive game plan worked and that sounds and they still gave up that sounds insane when you lose a game 41 17 and what Lamar threw for 225 and four touchdowns like but it kind of worked I mean they they loaded the box almost 70 percent of the time they were playing a shitload of man coverage they just clogged it up so Derek Henry couldn't take over the game and dared the Ravens to beat him basically. And like they did, to be clear, the Ravens won very comfortably, but I don't know, a better team, maybe a team like the Detroit Lions who likes to run a lot of man coverage might see that and say, I bet we can do some of this stuff to maybe greater success.

43:23Robert Mays: The Browns played 60 % man against the Ravens per next gen. That's not surprising. That's what the Browns do. Week one to me is the real signal of this is how teams want to play against the Ravens. Bills played 41 % man coverage in week one. That was their 10th highest rate in a single game since 2021. And their third highest in a single game since 2022. They had one stray game against the Bengals in 23 where they played a lot of man and one stray game against New England last year. That's not how they want to play. But that's how teams are approaching the Ravens. And it does make a little bit of sense because if you look at the numbers, the Ravens had an astronomical explosive play rate against zone last year.

44:01Robert Mays: It goes to merely very good bottom half of the top 10 when you play man. And so I'm not surprised to see teams approaching them that way. Guess what the Detroit Lions want to do? I mean, this is a team that even with the new defensive coordinator, Dave, is still very, very comfortable playing a lot of man coverage.

44:17Derrik Klassen: Which I'm curious to see just how well it works. I'm not like, I don't want to dog the guy too bad, but like Terry and Arnold seems like he is off to.

44:26Robert Mays: You can pick on the corners right now.

44:28Derrik Klassen: Yeah, like the teams have at this point. Taron Arnold seems like he's off to a little bit of a slow start. DJ Reed, I trust DJ Reed to figure it out over the course of the year, but I don't look at the Lions secondary and just think like Clamp City, you know what I mean? So I'm curious to see how this goes. I have no doubt they're going to try that, and it worked to great success last week, but I am interested is all I'm trying to say.

44:53Robert Mays: Two games in, I think one of the things we talked about coming into the season, And what sort of structural differences would we see with the Lions defense under Calvin Shepard compared to Aaron Glad? Coverage menu, almost exactly the same. The biggest difference that we've seen so far is the disguise that we've gotten from the Lions defense. So they're actually playing man 40 % of the time out of two high looks. That is a top 10 rate since NextGen started tracking all of this stuff. So that is a level of disguise we just did not see. with Aaron Gladys. It's like 2016. 2016, yeah. So it's 10 full years.

45:30Robert Mays: All the other teams in that list are Patriots teams. And so this is a departure, and it makes exact sense based on what I thought they might do. The DNA is still the same in terms of the man they want to play. They're just not showing it to you before the snap. So other than that, we've gotten really similar play from the Lions, but that's been the main key difference. The other difference, Dave, that you wanted to point out is that Aiden Hutchinson is actually moving around a lot more this year. and when you consider some of the struggles that Roger Rosengarten has had so far this year, if Aiden Hutchinson's gonna be on the other side and not having to play against Ronnie Stanley all game, that's something to keep an eye on.

46:04Derrik Klassen: He's very pleasantly split. He's doing like 49 and 49 on each side with like 1 % of his snaps in the middle in certain situations. But yeah, like he's flip-flopping a lot more and I was curious how much it's changed. Two years ago, he played 72 % of his snaps on the left side and obviously last year was skewed because he got hurt but in the first half of last year, it was 62%. And now he's all the way down to half and half. And so I would guess this is a game to me where I'm like, oh, the left side is the favorable matchup. And so I wonder what that's going to look like or if they really do want him to just be that versatile where it's like, yeah, we'll go, you know, we're still going to rush you against Ronnie Stanley.

46:44Derrik Klassen: I'm curious to see what that looks like. I'm with Derek in the sense that I just don't think

46:47Robert Mays: the Ravens offensive line has played that well this year. They're 31st in rushing success rate. the Ravens are through two games. They've had some explosives, but down to down, the only team worse than them is the Bears. And this is the one that really jumped out to me. The Ravens last season, per next gen stats, had 43 quick pressures on the season that they gave up. They've given up nine this year through two games. It's like double the rate, basically. Exactly. It's double the rate. You feel it. You feel it when you watch them. And I will say, I think the Aiden Hutchinson matchup is an advantage for the Lions there.

47:18Robert Mays: The rest of this Detroit defensive line coming into the season, One of my concerns was, do they have pass rush juice without a Lee McNeil and Levi Onzerike? Like, or is this just going to be big plugger types in the middle? Right now, you feel the lack of pass rush in the middle. Like, they beat the Bears tackles around the corner multiple different times. But Tyleek Williams, DJ Reed, or DJ Reader, and Roy Lopez, who I actually think is playing really well for them in the run game, they're just not pass rushers. And so I do think there's going to be some space in the middle of the pocket for Lamar.

47:46Robert Mays: And that might be enough, considering what Dave said about the corners having, you know, their moments over the first couple games of the season.

47:53Dave Helman: Yeah, and I think like against Lamar Jackson specifically, one, he's gotten really good at just like hanging in there. And like, if you have space in the middle of the pocket, and also think too, even though the Lions were able to win around the edge last week against the Bears, like they still struggle to actually bring Caleb to the ground. And that obviously when you play Lamar Jackson is also always going to be an issue as well.

48:11Robert Mays: All right, we're going to take our first quick break and then get back with one thing from a couple other intriguing matchups from week three.

48:18Dave Helman: One thing I love about summer is how easy everything feels. Days are a little more relaxed and I find myself reaching for the same comfortable go anywhere pieces again and again. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on well-made essentials that naturally become those everyday staples you live in all season long. Quince's 100 % European linen pants and shirts are breathable, easy to throw on, and the summer upgrade your rotation needs starting at just$34. Their tees are soft enough to live in all day, and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when summer nights cool down.

48:52Dave Helman: Everything at Quince is priced 50 % to 80 % less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you're paying for exceptional quality, not brand markup. Let's rewind a little bit. Let's go back to those tees. Do a lot of different things in the summer. Go to the pool, go to the beach, play with the kids, go to work. Yep, even in the summer, work is still a thing. And these tees from Quince, they fit all of those and more. basically anything you can think about. In fact, just last weekend, I went to a music festival with my wife, had one of my Quince tees with me there too.

49:20Dave Helman: So they fit every single situation you might be looking for in the summer. Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com slash athletic football for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com slash athletic football for free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash athletic football

49:46Derrik Klassen: Monday AI agents took over my work and I absolutely love it chasing deadlines writing status reports updating stakeholders agents handle the daily grind now they live inside monday.com so they see the full picture my work my team the whole company and I don't have to worry about the data it's safe which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff knowing everything runs smoothly in the background It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day.

50:24Derrik Klassen: And with Discover, you can. Get this, Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card.

50:45Robert Mays: Each week, we like to pick just a few matchups and choose one thing that we're watching from those matchups. One thing you guys should be watching from those matchups. Derek, let's start with yours from this week. The Cardinals and the Niners. The 2-0 San Francisco 49ers and the 2-0 Arizona Cardinals. What is the one thing that you want people to be watching in this game?

51:05Dave Helman: just can Mac Jones keep them alive, which statistically he did last week. I watched that game and I just was like, nah, I don't care. I refuse to accept this.

51:16Robert Mays: I went back and I watched every single one of those throws an hour ago. You are being way too hard on Mac Jones. Yes, of course I am. He was good. He was fine.

51:25Dave Helman: He made like three throws on his first read to Ricky Pearsall, almost all of them against Isaac Yadim, who has been very bad this year.

51:31Robert Mays: All of those throws are on time. He's pushing the ball outside of the numbers. The placement on them is good. But he won a roll up with the way he played last week.

51:38Dave Helman: There's not anything wrong with it. We've just seen seven or eight different quarterbacks do that in this offense.

51:44Robert Mays: Who gives a shit, though?

51:45Dave Helman: All they need to do is be decent while Brock is not playing. And he can probably do that. But, like, I just don't want to sit here and do any, like, Mac Jones is doing it again. And I'm not saying you're doing that. What is it? He just doesn't want to relitigate Mac Jones' viability. Every time a quarterback who has started before plays well again, we do the thing of, like, can he be the next one? And again, I'm not saying you're not. I'm not even trying to get there. I know that you're not, but somebody is.

52:09Robert Mays: I think that even without George Kittle and Brandon Ayuk, there is still a lot of talent in the pass-catching room for the Niners, and Kyle Shanahan is still very good at this. He created a lot of easy-access throws for Mac Jones, and Mac Jones made the throws that were there to be made.

52:26Dave Helman: Can I pose a legitimate issue, which I do think will be different this week than last week? I think Mac Jones, in a number of instances, even in this game, when his first read was not there. He short-circuited. He short-circuits a little bit.

52:38Robert Mays: It happened like three or four times. I will admit that.

52:40Dave Helman: And I think the Cardinals will, one, do a better job of getting him there. And then I think there were a couple of instances where he really needed to just get the ball out to like Christian McCaffrey on checkdowns or even the tight ends, and he was just late to do it. And I do think the Cardinals are a little bit more of an interesting defense and might put him into a couple more of those scenarios.

52:58Robert Mays: I don't disagree with that. There was one where McCaffrey was sitting in the flat as like the number one receiver on like an empty look and he just stared at him and did not throw it and eventually took a sack. That happened more than a couple times. I will fully admit that. Here's the thing I will say, and I think the one thing we're watching here is, can the Niners continue to win games even without Brock Purdy? Can they get to 3-0 and we don't even think about the fact that Brock Purdy missed two games? I do think that's possible in part because everything we said is true. And Dave, Isaac Yada may not be walking through the door for the Cardinals, but the entire Cardinals secondary is banged up right now.

53:33Derrik Klassen: I wish they were healthier. I wish they were healthy. I mean, Garrett Williams moved to IR. Bo Melton not practicing as of recording. I hate this. It's the maximum. Oh, I'm sorry. Bo Melton, his brother. His brother. He was now a corner. He was also a corner. Confusing. Thanks to his brother's success. I wish they were healthier. It's the flip of Tampa's offensive line where you're like, I had such high hopes for this unit, and we're not even a month into the season, and it's all gone to shit.

54:01Robert Mays: Garrett Williams going in IR sucks. Gary Williams is like a legitimately very fun player. And I was hoping he'd get more recognition if the Cardinals defense played well and they were winning some more games. I got to say, I actually thought Mack was fine. There were a couple of throws in this game. He was fine. The corner route he throws to Juwan Jennings in the final minute of the first half is a beautiful throw. They're scheming up screens for Tonjes. And the touchdown he throws to McCaffrey and like near the pylon on that two-minute drive is a nice play. That one was a good one. The little wrap route to Pierce Hall like midway through the third quarter.

54:31Robert Mays: he's doing more than enough and I think the most important consideration here is even with losing your starting quarterback for a couple weeks can we be 3-0 and really be setting ourselves up for a bounce back season that didn't feel like it was going to be one as we lost George

54:47Derrik Klassen: Kittle and Brock Purdy by the end of week one I was gonna say the way Purdy looked in the opener if they get to 3-0 for the record the Niners haven't ruled Brock out by the way like they I know not to trust Kyle Shanahan at a podium ever, but they're not ruling him out for this game against the Cardinals. But even if he misses this game, which I would guess that he will, you get to 3-0 the way he looked in the season opener. I mean, I already was high on this team. I'd be that much higher if they were able to get this done with the amount of attrition they've already dealt with.

55:20Robert Mays: Let's get to our next one here. One thing, Dave, from the Broncos-Chargers game this week. What should we be watching?

55:26Derrik Klassen: Okay, so I want to preemptively apologize to Charger fans. I am well aware that the Chargers defense is off to a sick start. That's all we talked about on Monday night, though. They look great. If you guys want to hear nothing but Chargers defense love,

55:38Robert Mays: go listen to the Monday night recap, where we're just like waxing poetic about Elohi Gilman and... Dayon Henley. Yeah, Dayon Henley. I was going to say Justin Jefferson. Who's the safety I'm thinking about?

55:50Dave Helman: Tony Jefferson.

55:51Robert Mays: All that stuff happened on Monday nights. They're in your YouTube feed. Go listen to that if you need...

55:55Derrik Klassen: And go subscribe and like on the YouTube channel as well. Some Chargers defense love. But the headliner, easy. One of the most exciting elements of this entire week of NFL football is Justin Herbert going against Denver's defense. It is must-see TV. It is best in the league doing what they do well against best in the league. I mean, Justin Herbert, you could easily argue he's off to the best start of his career. The only year that really comes close is 2022. and that was the year that he like ripped his rib cartilage in week two and was that's just horrifying I still ache thinking about it he's off to an incredible start and now he is going against a Denver defense that we all think very highly of a Denver defense that credit to the Colts they I mean they got the win and Daniel Jones played really well against it but a Denver defense that we know is going to make life harder on him Justin Herbert has only thrown into a tight window on 13 % of his attempts this year.

56:55Derrik Klassen: More importantly than that, because that's not like a crazy low number, 57 % of his targets so far this season have been to a wide open receiver, a receiver with three plus yards of separation. Go watch the Raiders game. You know what it looked like. It jumps up to 67 % just the Raiders, by the way. The Raiders couldn't cover. And so now what's it look like when you go against a defense that's going to be able to do that? Denver is leading the league in tight window coverage so far this year. 26 % of their targets have been like tight window coverage. So like that, this is what they do. They run man easily 54 % man coverage snaps so far this, this year.

57:38Derrik Klassen: And they're also top five in quarterback pressure rate. They blitz the shit out of Daniel Jones. I don't expect them to be afraid to blitz Justin Herbert either. And I don't expect them to be afraid to play man coverage. So just the, and it's not, I don't need to see Justin Herbert do it. I know he can do it because the Broncos threw the kitchen sink at him last year, especially in week one. And he swept them. It's not to say that he can't. It's just going to be fun as hell to watch. Like, can you maintain the level of play we've seen the first two weeks against a defense that is talented enough and unafraid to play you very aggressively, if I had to guess?

58:12Derrik Klassen: I think they should be scared to blitz him a little bit for a couple of reasons.

58:16Dave Helman: One, I think the middle of their defense is probably the most gettable part of it. the linebackers I do not think are playing very well right now. And then I think even Talano Hufanga, you can get a little bit in coverage right now, even though he's still been a good run defender.

58:26Robert Mays: He's playing like the post safety way more than I expected him to play within this defense. It's interesting. I just like did not expect to see him back there as often as he's been back there.

58:36Dave Helman: Vance does like to move his safeties. So I think there's that element to it. And then over the last two years combined, so basically just in the Greg Roman era, just to put it all in one offense, Justin Herbert has a 0.3 EPA per drop back against the Blitz. The only two quarterbacks above him won the MVP. It was Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. And so I just, even though I do think, you know, they're going to be able to run with these guys, I just, you know, Herbert, I think, has done a fantastic job of replacing the Blitz.

59:02Derrik Klassen: He's been phenomenal against the Blitz this year. He's also been really good against Mann, which the Raiders hilariously barely tried last week for good reason. But on the year, he's 13 of 18 for 143, two touchdowns. He did take two sacks against the Chiefs, but he's been phenomenal against man. One other thing I think is interesting about this, and it's two weeks, so I don't want to overreact, but Herbert's scrambling twice as often as he ever has so far this season. He's scrambling just under 11 % of his dropbacks. For his career, his number has never been higher than 5.5%. And I wonder, I mean, is that just the game script?

59:40Derrik Klassen: Is that because he's healthier than we've often seen him at any time, really? because he's beat the hell off.

59:46Robert Mays: I think it's a combination of the two. I think, and I also think it's just, we saw flashes of this last year. We saw him play a little bit looser, a little bit freer, a little bit more aggressive in the scrambling last year before he got hurt. And so I do think that we were creeping that way and now we're kind of fully realizing it. The last thing I'll say about this, I'm with you on the middle of the defense. I do think, and paying attention to whether Lab McConkie plays in this game because he is not practicing. What Josh Downs did to the Broncos last week, specifically what he did to Brandon Jones, there is a blueprint for how you can use lad mcconkey against some of the defenders in the middle of this broncos defense you put them in motion some of the vertical stuff they were trying to get jones on like i do think there's a little bit for the chargers to take there and see if they can apply it to a really a player with i think a kind of a similar skill set to what joss downs has is like a vertical presence in the slot last one here texans and jags my one thing from this game, Texans defense against another Liam Cohen run game.

1:00:44Robert Mays: Last week, they got the run game that Liam Cohen used to oversee, and they really, really struggled. The Bucs hit him with like a 60 % rushing success rate in that game. The Texans so far through two games, I think obviously the game they had against the Bucs is a big part of this. They're 30th in run defense success rate. And I think the specific approach you saw from the Bucs last week, where it's a lot of gap scheme runs, a lot of counter where you're leaving the defensive end to the play side unblocked. And then you're getting all of your interior guys up to the second level and that you're trying to use the upfield nature of the Texans front against them in that single moment.

1:01:22Robert Mays: And we know that the defensive ends are hell on earth to deal with the other guys, the interior pieces, the linebackers, you can get bodies on them. I do think that you can move them. And I think we've seen that so far. and the Bucs, I think, their run rushing offense over the last couple of years, we know it's been very good. But so far, the Jags and Liam Cohen have kind of made good on the bet that they were making on him as a head coach, trying to retool some areas of that offense. The Jags right now are fifth in EPA per carry. They are ninth in rushing success rate. That may not seem great.

1:01:58Robert Mays: They were 26th in EPA per carry in 2023 and 2024 combined. They could not run the ball. That seems high. And even that seems hot. They could not run the ball for the vast majority of Trevor Lawrence's career. They've been able to tap into that and take something off of him. And the other part of it, and we knew this was going to happen, the screen game is starting to come along. They've thrown 11 of them through two games. They have two touchdowns on screen passes already. Is that another area where you could take advantage of a defensive line that really wants to get up the field? And so I think that the Texans last week, you saw some of the holes in an otherwise really talented defense.

1:02:36Robert Mays: And I think it's pretty funny, Dave, that now they're getting the exact same offensive DNA that they're going to have to deal with one week later.

1:02:43Derrik Klassen: I think it's cruel for the Jags. What else is new? But I love, and understandably so, Derek, we've talked a lot this week about the angst with the receivers and the passing game and getting Brian Thomas Jr. going. It's not getting enough love that Liam Cohen is fixing Travis Etienne, which is somewhat like people have whined about that for years. And he looks really, really good in this offense. It looks like he's going to have a big year. Could be a key element of this game plan. So it's classic Jags that like a very good thing with a player that's been frustrating is happening and nobody's talking about it because Brian Thomas Jr.

1:03:18Derrik Klassen: is off to a slow start. You fix one thing and then the two receivers,

1:03:21Dave Helman: you start first round picks on it, it's like not what you want them to be right now.

1:03:24Robert Mays: I honestly like it may not be a good answer because they've already paid him and he's going to be the quarterback here for a while, but getting some clarity, we said this in week one, the fact that Trevor can have like a mid game and no win, that's not a space that they've been in over the last couple of years. And so it'd be pretty deflating if as a Jags fan, you try to talk yourself into the entire off season being like, well, in better circumstances, maybe we'll see the best version we've seen of Trevor Lawrence. And then he's kind of just been the guy we've seen over the last couple of years with like the same consistency frustrations.

1:03:54Robert Mays: and at least it's clarity, even if it's not the sort of clarity you want as a Jaguars fan.

1:04:00Dave Helman: Yeah, at least you feel a little bit more better. Like, okay, at least he had a shot this time. The one last thing I want to say about this game too is like if things go right for Houston, the issue I do have with the Jags receiving core, they're a little bit smaller and they're a little bit do not love contact.

1:04:14Robert Mays: They're a little bit do not love. I was wondering how you were going to frame that. They do not. They're a little bit do not love contact. That's a good action. Don't love the middle of the field. That was very kind of you.

1:04:22Dave Helman: Don't love the middle of the field. don't like people putting hands on them. Would you like to know what the Texan secondary loves to do? They love to put hands on you and try to take your head off. And so I just I think that's it's, you know, we'll see how those receivers play.

1:04:33Robert Mays: All right. It's time to spend a little time on Sicko Street. Each week, we're going to pick a couple matchups that I don't know, may not look that appealing on paper. And we're going to try to sell you on why these games or at least the nugget from these games is worth watching. Derek, I'm going to let you have the floor here why should people tune in to Spencer Rattler against the Seattle Seahawks defense this

1:04:57Dave Helman: week I'm like three weeks away from saying something crazy about Spencer Rattler he is like

1:05:02Derrik Klassen: maybe just one if he plays well in Seattle Mike McDonald it really might be the week and so

1:05:09Dave Helman: so I think earnestly over the first two weeks he's played against okay competent defenses in the Cardinals and in the 49ers and I think the explosive play rate has not really been there for this offense. And I think that there's, you know, kind of a number of reasons for that. Part of it, the pass protection has not been great. I think they've struggled to really build shot plays. But the thing with me about Spencer Rattlers, I think we came into the season being like, okay, you're going to get some of the fun stuff, but he's going to take a lot of sacks. He might do some stupid stuff. I think it's actually been the opposite, where it's been a very like a passing offense that asks a lot of him in terms of a timing, reading out the entire field, getting through all his progressions, getting to his checkdowns.

1:05:44Dave Helman: And he's actually done a really good job of it. Like the ball is coming out on time. I think he's been accurate. I think you've even seen the Saints like to run this play where they just, as the backside ice receiver, will just have like the, it's usually Chris Alave, run like a 10 yard out. And like the quarterback, if you're going to throw that, your timing and your footwork has to be really pristine. And Rattler was not a player I thought that that would be the case for. And it has been. Like his timing has been good. He's a very confident player. And so I think the one thing that you're going to get that's different in this game from some, I think the first two games, Mike McDonald throws random pass rushers at you better than just about anybody else.

1:06:17Dave Helman: and their pass rush even without that has been very, very good. And so I think that is a different challenge than Rattler's had to deal with the last couple of weeks. But I don't know, man. He's been good against the Blitz in these first couple of games. He's replaced it well. He's seen it. I think you have some issues of like, he's just not an explosive athlete. And so if they can get to him in the pocket, he's not going to get out. But I don't know. I'm at the point where I think Rattler is at least a competent quarterback and we'll see how much he can build on it from there. He ranks 11th in the league in throws

1:06:42Derrik Klassen: that have traveled 10 or more yards down the field. which is a fun place for such a young player to be.

1:06:49Robert Mays: I'm looking at some of the numbers right now as waiting for them to populate. So if you look at it right so far this season, I believe all the filters are correct on here. The Seahawks are blitzing on 13 % of snaps, which is one of the lowest rates in the entire league. Despite that, despite the fact that they're only blitzing on 13 % of snaps, their pressure rate is 49.4 % through the first two weeks. this front is something serious. And I did think they had this sort of gear to them. Like I very happily at the end of my fantasy draft was like Seahawks defense. I think this has a chance to be the best defense in the league.

1:07:27Robert Mays: And we've seen some of the flashes, right? But like with the way that Mafe is playing and just all the different body types they have up front,

1:07:34Dave Helman: it's a fun group. I feel like good coaching, we so often just do like, what does the scheme look like? Are they doing cool stuff? And obviously Mike McDonald does that. But it's also just like, are the players that are supposed to get better getting better yeah and all you getting the best

1:07:45Robert Mays: versions of the players on your team that's it yes that that is always how i see this and like

1:07:50Dave Helman: mafe's doing it like derrick hall is awesome byron murphy i think has played really well this year like they're just the young players that you wanted to be good or i think even you know he's not a young player anymore but like julian love has been fantastic this year like they just the guys who are supposed to be playing well are playing well oh i will say a lot of guys hurt for

1:08:07Robert Mays: the seahawks right now devon witherspoon not practicing nick i'm an warrior not practicing Julian Love not practicing specifically for the defense. So just something to keep an eye on heading into this one.

1:08:15Derrik Klassen: I thought about you earlier today, Derek. That's cute. Yeah, thank you. My brother, diehard Saints fan, wanted Tyler Shook to start because he's the draft pick. Wasn't super impressed with Rattler last season. We've been arguing about this all summer. And he texted me and was like, I think I like Spencer Rattler. And I was like, yeah, buddy. Yeah, you do, buddy.

1:08:37Robert Mays: Lock in. Let's go. One more stop on Sicko Street here. I'm looking forward to the Jake Brown and Carson Wentz matchup.

1:08:44Dave Helman: Oh, that's worse. That's disgusting. I agree. This is the most Sicko Street thing we've done yet.

1:08:50Robert Mays: The Rower thing has way more appeal. Here's why I'm looking forward to it. I like this game as like football experiment, right? Like when you swap out the quarterback and all the other component parts are the same, I always enjoy just seeing what the results look like in pretty good situations, right? that we've seen Jake Browning play. And Jake Browning played pretty darn well in 2023, given that he's a backup quarterback. And so last week, obviously the interceptions are tough, but plays well enough for the Bengals to win. What does this look like for an extended period of time? Are we going to regret taking the Bengals out of the table because Jake Browning looks good enough to keep this team competitive?

1:09:28Robert Mays: I said my piece. I said my piece about that. And so what this looks like, and there are certain schematic tweaks that they used at Browning last time. was a little bit more under center. It was a little bit more play action. I think that they're trying to make things a little bit easier on the quarterback because he has, Joe DeBrow has such defined preferences that you want to set the offense up for him because that raises the ceiling of the offense. Like he's able to do things Jake Browning cannot. So I'm just curious to see what they try to do differently in order to get the most out of Jake Browning.

1:09:54Robert Mays: And then I'm always interested in like whatever quarterback is playing for the Vikings. And now this is going to be funny because Carson Wentz is going to play well and everyone's going to be like, oh my god J.J. McCarthy what a nightmare and the reality is just going to be Christian Derrissaw's back that like that's just going to be the Christian Derrissaw got back and Justin

1:10:12Derrik Klassen: School's not playing anymore and Addison will be back next week so yeah we joked about it on the hangover show like I won't be surprised if there's a little bit of a Carson Wentz renaissance even if it doesn't happen right away I would be surprised I would be surprised if there's a Carson Wentz renaissance when I say renaissance I'm I purely mean it will look fine and Vikings fans will be excited that they're not watching six three and outs per week because that's what they've seen so far.

1:10:38Robert Mays: I think this is going to be potentially problematic, though. If he plays well enough that we start to get like real JJ anxiety from the Vikings fan base, that's not a spot that you want to be.

1:10:47Dave Helman: No, you don't want that. The worst part of it, too, is I think that there's a world where that happens where you get the anxiety, but also like nobody thinks that Carson Wentz is actually playing well enough for them to do anything like that weird middle ground of like, oh, this is.

1:10:59Derrik Klassen: He doesn't have to be that good to be better than what Vikings fans saw for the first eight quarters of the season. That's the problem. We don't have to do this right now. I think

1:11:06Robert Mays: JJ McCarthy wasn't that bad over the first two weeks. We'll talk about that when JJ McCarthy starts playing football again. I don't think he was good, but I think they were overstating how bad he was. That's where I sit with this. Again, Christian Derrissaw. I will just continue to mention the fact that Christian Derrissaw is not playing. We're going to take one more quick break and then we're going to come back with our first take tribunal of the season.

1:11:28Derrik Klassen: Monday.com AI agents took over my work and I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines,

1:11:43Derrik Klassen: It's smart to always have a few financial goals. And a really smart one you can set? Earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously. All of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card.

1:12:11Robert Mays: Take Tribunal is a segment we've done over the last couple of years on this show where essentially one of us just gets to stand on the soapbox and put forth a take for the rest of the group to weigh in on. Derek, you have our first Take Tribunal of the year. Why don't you trot this out and see how we're all feeling?

1:12:30Dave Helman: I think the Steelers defense is kind of unfixable. And I mean unfixable insofar as like the formula for this team, we don't even have to talk about the offense right now, was like this defense has to play at like a top eight level. It is the most expensive defense in the league. It's the oldest defense in the league.

1:12:46Robert Mays: It's the oldest and most expensive defense in the league.

1:12:48Dave Helman: Yes, like this should be at least a quality defense. There's no growth happening. No, there's no growth. And I understand that they are missing some guys like Derek Harmon and Joey Porter Jr. and I understand that. Like, I understand that they have some of their best players out. But even with that in mind, like some of the other guys that they have really invested in are not playing well. Like, Darius Slay got fried week one by Garrett Wilson on the deep over route for a touchdown. Jalen Ramsey got fried on the same exact route. Same play. It's the same play. Literally the same.

1:13:17Derrik Klassen: People have spliced them. I think you did it. People have spliced them up together and it's like, we didn't work.

1:13:22Dave Helman: We didn't work on this. And it's like in this, it's almost like on the same yard line. that like it's the exact same part of the field. And that's the part of it that is frustrating to me is that it's some of the players are not playing as well. Like I think Keanu Benton is playing worse than he's ever played. I think the linebackers are not playing well. Jalen Ramsey in the Seahawks game was like, I know he had to pick, but every other play in that game was just really rough for him. He gave up a lot of easy ones. So I think that there's that element to it. I think some of the players are not playing well.

1:13:48Dave Helman: But I also think schematically they have a lot of issues right now. One, it feels very stale. They run a lot of single high, which has always been an issue for them like they are running 68.2 percent of their their plays have been single high like that is obscene you cannot be doing that in this league and so I think that that is kind of the issue but it's also to me like you look at some of the spread stuff that some of these teams have done against them linebackers constantly out leverage and part of that is just like they're bumping them so far towards like the trip side or whatever it is that any play that happens the other way they just have no shot you watch what the linebackers are doing trying to fit the run they're constantly like playing really fast kind of gambling kind of not getting to the right spot I think that has been a big issue and then just in coverage like there was specifically a play against the Seahawks where it's like third and like five and they're playing two man with both of the safeties on Mars they're like 30 yards behind the the field and I'm like it's third and five they can just throw a slant and guess what happened I know exactly what you're talking about.

1:14:50Dave Helman: It's just like, what are you defending that far deep? Against the Seahawks who are like not a team to me that has that much downfield threat, or at least so much that you should be that worried about it. Like I just, the decisions they're making, the way that the players are playing, I just, they're not going to be the top eight defense they want to be.

1:15:05Robert Mays: If you're looking for pushback on this, you're asking the wrong guy.

1:15:08Dave Helman: Yeah, you just know it's going to happen. I've got a lot of stuff on the record

1:15:10Robert Mays: about the Steelers this offseason where I had some creeping doubts. And there are defenses, I'm sure people have listened to the way I've talked about like the Bears defense this week or some other units where it's like, it's week two. I can give everybody a little bit of time. This is not a new situation. No. You have mainstays with your defensive personnel, your defensive coordinator. The guys that you brought in this offseason are 10-year veterans, at least. Like the entire point of this was we have plug and play guys in an otherwise really good defense. We're going to push this thing all the way over the top.

1:15:45Robert Mays: And the opposite has happened. And I think bringing up the single high rate is perfect because I remember being there in training camp and, you know, maybe they do some more of this when Jalen Ramsey starts moving to the nickel and they get Joey Purge in your back, whatever. But the thought was, are we going to see a little bit more quarters from the Steelers? Are we going to see them play some different stuff than they've played in the past? They led the league last year at 67 % single high. And you just said it. They're playing more of it this year and they're getting absolutely cooked. They are dead last in the NFL in explosive play rate allowed.

1:16:14Dave Helman: I believe that Seahawks. game it was like on other than the interception it was like every other played Sam Darnold was

1:16:21Robert Mays: just hitting somebody for a chunk and even if they can get better the offense down to down against the Seahawks really struggled last week like part of the bargain with this Steelers team being the sort of Steelers team we've seen in the past where they can be a 9-10 win sneak into the playoff sort of team Dave the defense had to be good like definitively good and I am starting to develop some real doubts about us getting there despite the fact that the front is still playing pretty well. And now Alex Highsmith is hurt.

1:16:47Derrik Klassen: I will push back a little bit. But see that your last point kills mine a little bit because it's hard. I can't make the case that the Steelers are a playoff caliber team. I can't do that. But I can make the case that you'll be better than 28 points per game, 26th in defensive success rate, 27th in EPA per play over the course of the year. Like I don't think likely. Yes, I don't think they'll be seller dwellers.

1:17:11Robert Mays: Will they be in the

1:17:12Derrik Klassen: top half of the league.

1:17:14Robert Mays: And if they're not in the top half of the league, to me, none of the rest of the shit matters.

1:17:18Derrik Klassen: If Joey Porter Jr. comes back and Derek Harmon gets in the lineup and he's like freaking good, like if he's everything you hope he can be. I do love Derek Harmon. That's the only thing that's holding me back here. And like the other thing too, I think there's a lot of reasons for it, but like TJ Watts not playing like a gravitational edge rusher, but we know that he can. and so if you if you get some of those guys back and you get some better play up front you could talk me into the Steelers being like a middle of the pack defense at least if they're a middle of the pack defense though why they're not a playoff

1:17:51Robert Mays: and that was always my fear it wasn't going to be bad on defense is that they'd be this 18th best defense in the league and then none of the rest of the stuff

1:17:58Derrik Klassen: would matter well that's kind of how I felt about the Steelers for a few years at this point

1:18:02Robert Mays: but they've always been like a back half of the top 10 defense always as part of this That has been part of the formula. And so if you go from the eighth best defense to the 18th best defense, are you a six-win team instead of a 10-win team? That was my entire thought about the Steelers coming into the year. And I literally said, Alex Highsmith was the player I used as an example because he was banged up in the preseason. I was like, if you lose Alex Highsmith for a month and you got these aging corners, what does this look like? And we're kind of seeing what it looks like.

1:18:28Derrik Klassen: They need like one more really good player. You kind of touched on it. I know. I know they're the most expensive defense in the league.

1:18:34Robert Mays: Here's my stance on this. they don't. Now that Heisman, I guess that's true. In theory, they have a lot of really good players. Joey Porter Jr. not playing, absolutely worth mentioning. But that was one of my takeaways watching them against the Seahawks when you got Juan Thornhill out there and Deshaun Elliott. And it's just like, they don't have enough good players.

1:18:53Derrik Klassen: You know what I thought about is watching the linebackers in this game. And people said it when he left. Patrick Queen is a really good player if he's got like a Roquan Smith, you know? Like if Patrick Queens just like seeing the ball and going to get the ball, he's pretty good. And he made some plays in this game, but you can move them around. Like you can take advantage of them. It's same thing with Peyton Wilson, where like both of those guys would be much better players with a, with one better linebacker on the team. But since this is that, like, this is the linebacker core. It's not good because you don't have that Roquan Smith's, you know, the guy that makes it all right.

1:19:30Derrik Klassen: You need that guy. and without it, neither one of them has been very effective.

1:19:34Robert Mays: I said, Sean Elliott, I meant Chuck Clark, by the way, and that's even a better example of what I'm talking about here. To me, it was just like the safeties in my mind were not good enough and I'm 100 % with you, Dave, and those linebackers, they're explosive and I get that. They, you can spin their heads around constantly and guess what the Patriots did last week? It was all motion, under center play action. Like, they're going to get tested again based on how New England played against the Dolphins last week and so, I'm kind of with you here, man. Like, I would be worried if I were a Steelers fan because, again, this is not some new thing.

1:20:06Robert Mays: This is like legitimately the oldest, most mainstay defense in the NFL. And this is what they've looked like.

1:20:12Derrik Klassen: I can't imagine there are very many Steelers fans that are mad about this. That's kind of why I'm OK just letting it rip.

1:20:19Dave Helman: Just letting it rip.

1:20:19Robert Mays: Because I can't imagine there's going to be a lot of pushback. There's like people that have yellow and black like wallpaper in their houses and like have terrible towels like hanging everywhere. Maybe. but I can't imagine there are that many Steelers fans that are like,

1:20:32Derrik Klassen: you after these two games, even those people might be like, yeah, this defense is trash. I don't know. Before we get out of here,

1:20:38Robert Mays: a couple of quick things. One first wins pool update of the year. Those of you guys who did not or did not see us do it before the season. We each picked seven teams, five good teams, two teams with a projected over under six and a half or less simple. Whoever has the most wins at the end of the season wins. Whoever has the least wins has to pay off a bet on radio row. that is going to be embarrassing. I promise you won't want to do it. I've done it twice. Speaking of, I'm winning. I'm eight and six on the year, but it's all very tight right now. Dave's seven and seven, Derek's six and eight. Nothing to really be learned.

1:21:11Robert Mays: The only real trouble here is that one of us has the Bengals.

1:21:14Dave Helman: Yeah, six and eight, I don't feel bad. Like six and eight, like whatever. That part of it does not bother me. The not having Joe Burrow for the next three months, that part is going to bother me.

1:21:23Robert Mays: Let me tell you, I've lived this life. In 2023, I had the Bengals in the wind's pool and I wore a hot dog suit at Radio Row. So get ready, buddy. I don't want to wear the hot dog suit.

1:21:31Dave Helman: Hey, speaking of that, let me jump in for a sec. Listeners, viewers, get in the Discord and give us some suggestions for what this year's punishment should be.

1:21:38Robert Mays: Please, we have not settled on one yet. And you guys get the gist, right? Like hot dog suit year one, I wore a child's face paint last year, was painted like a unicorn in year two. So something that is acceptable, child-friendly, not child-friendly, but like let's be appropriate in the Discord. But again - I have to be on Radio Row. Yes, we have to be in a professional workspace, but something we do not want to do. Okay, I trust you guys to come up with some twisted stuff. Before we get out of here, we finish off each of the preview shows with one simple question. What do you want to know by the end of week three?

1:22:15Robert Mays: Dave, why don't you kick us off? What do you want to know by the end of Sunday's games?

1:22:19Derrik Klassen: We got to mention the pain fest between your team and the team that I am closely tied to that's happening right here in Chicago on Sunday. I want to know if the Cowboys are this year's Cincinnati Bengals, because those are the vibes emanating off of them right now. They are 27th in defensive success rate. I mean, you watched the Giants game. You know what that looked like. It was horrendous. Dak Prescott, meanwhile, he's fifth in the league in passing yardage. He's top 10 in EPA per dropback. First in big time throws per PFF. That sounds like him. He's playing out of his freaking mind, and they're only going to go as far as he can drag them.

1:22:57Derrik Klassen: And that might only be eight and nine, but I'm fascinated to see how it goes. And if they find a way to lose to this Bears team, no offense, then that will confirm my suspicion that, you know, maybe they are this year's Bengals. I'm not out on the Bears yet. You saw the Caleb team. I'm not out. Just when I thought I was out. I'm not out yet.

1:23:16Robert Mays: They pulled me back in. He played legitimately well last week. It was good. The interception is indefensible. But other than that, there were five, six outside the numbers throws where I'm like, okay. I'm like, I'm okay.

1:23:30Derrik Klassen: This is enough for me to actually have some life. I didn't see the Giants-Cowboys game being what it was. I see this. I see that this has the potential to be a shit show in the good way. A shit show in the 34-31 sort of way. If they give up 45 to the Cowboys, whatever.

1:23:48Robert Mays: However, if he, Caleb Williams, plays like garbage against Matt Eberflus.

1:23:54Dave Helman: Oh, I didn't even calculate that part. I will be here, right?

1:24:01Robert Mays: There is nothing outside of personal circumstances that could push me away from this table on Sunday night. You guys are really going to have to bring it out of me if that ends up happening.

1:24:12Derrik Klassen: Physically here, spiritually, maybe not.

1:24:13Robert Mays: It's a late game too, so I'll have even less time to bounce back. But I'm going to watch that one like through my fingers on Sunday because that outcome is one that I just don't know if I'm willing to face. Derek, what do you want to know by the end of week three?

1:24:28Dave Helman: Mine is not nearly as existential as that. Mine is just Hassan Redick playing against the Jets tackles, which I think part of that is funny because obviously he had the whole debacle with them. But also it's just that like week one, these Jets tackles looked really good against like I think I thought they had some really promising moments in the run game, but especially in the passing game. and then week two against the Bills, that was not the case. I think they had a really, really tough one. And so Hassan Reddick was, Dave, we talked about this. I think you had them, Reddick as like, you're one of your DNA changers.

1:24:56Dave Helman: Yeah, he's one of my DNA guys. If things work out for Reddick and for the Bucs, you know, pass rush, then that could really be a unit that starts to take off. And Reddick has played really well. His pressure rate is one of the highest in the league right now. And accordingly, the Bucs defense has been average, which is not great, but significantly better than they were last year. And so I just kind of want to see what he's able to put up against two tackles that I think are still trying to figure some stuff out and have some good tape, some bad tape.

1:25:19Robert Mays: Mine for this week, that tepid optimism that I had, I'm not saying we, that I had about the Carolina Panthers heading into the year. The fact that they would just be like a competent football team, right? I think you laid it out perfectly on the NFC South preview show. When we were talking about what success looked like for the Panthers, you said, don't pick in the top 10 again, right? Can you pick outside of the top 10? Can you be like a 7-10 team that's a little bit frisky, that's maybe in the wild card mix by the end of the year, you're on the end of the hunt graphic. Well, through two games, Panthers are 31st in offensive DVOA and 31st in total team DVOA.

1:25:55Robert Mays: I'm not even asking you to be good. Can you be worth caring about? And right now, so far, that has not been the case. And I don't know, I'm a little disappointed. Like, I kind of thought the Panthers would be a competent, at least functional football team.

1:26:09Derrik Klassen: And we just have not really seen that through the first two weeks. You know what the sad thing is? They do look better than they looked in the first two weeks of last season. But like that is actually somehow true. The bar is in hell if that's what we're measuring them by. Yeah, I'm with you, man. Like they look a little bit better, but by and large, they don't look. It looks like the second half of last year never happened.

1:26:30Robert Mays: That was just a mirage. And you know what? That's what's so disappointing about it. I think that's exactly right. It's the right way to put it. And guess what? They're playing against the Falcons defense that, I don't know, man. it's pretty good right now they're playing well some interesting stuff like billy bowman like how aggressive they've been like all the twists all the stunts all the pressures they're gonna make it hard on that offensive line for the panthers that is missing a couple guys and so that may be it like the offensive line injuries may be enough to like totally torpedo this thing but man that would be a bummer because i just like i don't even care about the panthers it's just one of those like i thought that there was some optimism to be found as a fan base of like let's build on what the second half last year looked like there were little nuggets of excitement and through two games like like you just said it feels like none of that ever happened and I think for me I don't

1:27:14Dave Helman: even have to relitigate any of the offensive stuff that I was not all that excited about but man they spent a lot on the defense for it to be not a whole lot better and like this is against the Falcons offense that like I know they stalled out in the red zone a little bit last week but like they can move the ball between the 20s and so this is you know it's gonna be tough all right

1:27:32Robert Mays: That is all we've got. If you guys did not watch the Thursday night recap show that we'll be doing live, it'll happen before you guys listen to this, but go check it out on YouTube. If you're watching this on YouTube, please like and subscribe to the YouTube channel. Please comment. Please let us know what you think about some of these discussions. Do you think the Rams should have a seat at the table? Let us know. Do you think the Steelers' defense is fixable? Let us know. If you disagree, even better. We would love to hear from you guys, So please be commenting on that. I haven't asked you to do this so far this season.

1:28:06Robert Mays: If you're listening on any sort of podcast app, right? If you're listening on the Apple podcast app, please leave us a review. If you like the show, we would love to hear from you. Please let us know. If you're listening on Spotify, the exact same stuff I just said about the YouTube comments, let us know. I want to hear about your thoughts about the Rams at the table. I want to hear your thoughts about the Steelers defense and anything else that we talked about today. We would love to hear from you guys. For now, that is all we've got. We will be back here on Sunday night. Appreciate you guys listening.

1:28:35Robert Mays: We'll talk to you very soon.

1:29:01Derrik Klassen: So they see the full picture, my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff, knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions.

1:29:38Derrik Klassen: After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card.