Week 3 recap: Eagles score the win of the day, lead parade of 3-0 teams

0:03Robert Mays: Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. It's the week three recap. What a day in the NFL. We kick things off with a game of the week that really was the game of the week. The Philadelphia Eagles coming back in a big way over the Los Angeles Rams. Few teams grabbed our attention today. The Indianapolis Colts are 3-0 and have the inside track in the AFC South after another big day. The Chargers are 3-0 after a big win over the Denver Broncos. San Francisco 49ers are also 3-0 and leading the NFC West despite missing Brock Purdy for the last couple weeks. Had some WTF moments from the Packers, Falcons, and Patriots, and then got a little bit romantic about the creamsicle bucks, a monster missile shot from Caleb Williams during a very fun day for the Bears offense, and plenty of other stuff that we got to hit from week three with me, Dave Hellman, and Derek Klassen.

0:55Robert Mays: Let's get to the week three recap right now.

1:01Robert Mays: Every Sunday in the NFL is a good Sunday, David. But today is one of those days. I was sitting there during the early slate and I was like, this is why I do this. I do it for these types of Sundays in the NFL. We got a really good one in week three.

1:16Derrik Klassen: You know what's amazing, too, is it delivers even when it doesn't feel like it's going to. Because like halfway through the early window here in week three, I was kind of like, man, we might have a dud on our hands. Three one score games. That was it. And even like the close games weren't overly dramatic, you know, so go figure that when I'm sitting there at halftime of the early window saying, oh, not a very good slate. We wind up with, oh, my God, what was it like five photo finishes in the in the early window? Just I should know by now not to doubt. And this is just the latest reminder.

1:53Dave Helman: I feel like it's always unfair to start judging a Sunday until you get to the witching hour. You kind of got to let that part start to play out before you can like really start to let the picture form.

2:02Robert Mays: And this was an all time witching hour, which we're going to get to one of those games here very shortly. A little bit of housekeeping just at the top of the show on Sunday night. I was here last Sunday night. I would have said this last week. I know there are probably some new listeners to the athletic football show this season. I kind of want to just lay out how we do these Sundays and what they mean for the games that we're going to hit. And then the next 24 hours of the athletic football show. We are not going to talk about all the games today. We made a decision a few years ago that in order to do the show we want to do on Sunday night, to be able to give you a little bit of depth, go back, give you a little bit of detail on some of the games we are going to talk about, we just don't have the bandwidth to hit every single game that happened.

2:40Robert Mays: So there are going to be games we are not going to talk about today. The goal, and that includes the Sunday night game, for the most part, we prep the show during the Sunday night game. We will make a decision in advance, like in week one when it was Bill's Ravens, when it's the story in the NFL, to watch the Sunday night game and react to it in real time. That decision is mostly made before the Sunday night game even starts. For the most part, each week, the Monday hangover show will start with the Sunday night football recap because everyone watched that game and we do want to talk about it.

3:09Robert Mays: So I just want to set some expectations at the beginning. We're not going to hit every game. We're often not going to hit the Sunday night game. That's how we've done things for a very long time here. And it's just kind of how we believe in doing things on Sunday night. So just wanted to get that out of the way. I know it's early in the season, and I think it's just important to be very clear and transparent up front. On our Thursday preview show this week, the game of the week that we had, Derek, was the Eagles and the Rams. And oh boy, did that live up to it. Didn't seem like it was going to.

3:38Robert Mays: Post-strip sack early in the third quarter, it's 25-7. Felt like the Rams were going to run away with it. And then the Eagles claw their way back. They win this game 33-26 on one of those wishing hour moments that we talked about a second ago. What a game. and the game of the week absolutely lived up to the hype.

3:55Dave Helman: The Eagles offense was like, even again, right throughout the half where they get the strip sack, I think it was Jared Verst ended up just winning and popping the strip sack. The Eagles at the half had negative one overall passing yards. Like if you include the sacks in it, like they could not move the ball. And again, some of that was like Lane Johnson ended up being out. So there was a lot of pressure. I thought the Rams just did a really good job of mixing up and throwing some of their pressures at Jalen Hurts, which is something that we talked about, I think would be effective against this team.

4:23Dave Helman: And then, you know, I think, Dave, we were all kind of joking. As after the strip sack, it became very apparent that the Eagles were like, you know what? Number 11 is pretty good. We're just going to throw him the ball no matter what. And some of it was down the field. There were a couple of stop routes that AJ Brown did a really good job of winning, even though he wasn't necessarily open. It became like every now and then a player is so good that they can just take over the game by themselves. And I think we all know that AJ Brown can do that. And that was kind of what happened for the last 20 minutes of this game.

4:51Dave Helman: I really love that the Eagles gave us both of their signature performances.

4:57Derrik Klassen: Like you have the Eagles game where it's not clicking and the fans are starting to boo. And you can feel the anxiety on the sideline. You can tell that the vibes are bad. And then we also got the fire breathing monster Eagles where you're just like, oh, yeah, this roster is the best in the league or at least on the short list. And they can just do this shit. I mean, you know, A.J. Brown punked people all through the second half of this game. Their star defensive tackles blocked two kicks. It's easy to forget the way this game ended that they blocked another one. Like Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis both were like, we went to Georgia.

5:32Derrik Klassen: We're awesome. We're just going to bully all on this and come through in the clutch. And yeah, it was amazing to see. And kind of, I don't want to say vindication because they're the reigning champs. Like we knew they could do this. but this is the Eagles team that I kept saying over the summer that I was super high on. Like the one we saw from the mid third quarter on, I was like, yeah, they just have all the good players. This is what it should look like all the time.

5:58Dave Helman: If the idea was just that the talent was so overwhelming, that's eventually what you got in this game. And like the Rams have a lot of other players too. But like, again, the very, very best players on the Eagles absolutely came through. And like, I'm glad you bring up the first blocked kick, which I think Carter got his hands on that one. And that was really where it felt like the game started to turn away from the Rams. Because they had a third and one right before that, where they set up this deep play action crosser to Devontae Adams. Quinone Mitchell has fantastic coverage on it. It's a really tough throw.

6:25Dave Helman: Stafford isn't able to make it. They tried to go for the fourth and one ensuing after that, and they get stuffed. Which I think kind of haunts McVay a little bit, because he's not a guy who likes to go for a lot of those fourth and shorts, especially like that. And then on the next drive is when they get down to, I think it's like a fourth and two on the Eagles 19. It's like right in that range. And I was telling you, Dave, like five seconds before they walked out there, I was like, you got to go for this. Like with your only up five, like this Eagles team is starting to move. You got to go. And I was saying, I don't know, man.

6:53Dave Helman: It hasn't been that great for the Rams recently. And two seconds later, it gets blocked. And it was like, well, I didn't think it would get blocked. But I just, it felt like a moment that you had to go. And then, you know, the Eagles tidal wave kind of took over from there.

7:03Robert Mays: I think there were a lot of elements of this game that were very emblematic of what these teams have been. up to this point in the season and even creeping back into other seasons with the Eagles Dave you mentioned it we saw two sides of the coin where the pass protection struggles when you're sending extra bodies the problem and there were multiple DB blitzes in this game early on for the Rams that ended up in sacks Jalen Hurts you know when you have to when you take him off the first rate you make him hold on to the ball a little bit you're heating him up we see some of the struggles there and then later in the game we talked about this on the previous show we thought the pass rush plan from the Rams might give the Eagles trouble the one area where the Eagles had a significant an advantage is that they have the most physically imposing receiver in the NFL against a bunch of 5 '9", 5 '10", small corners.

7:44Robert Mays: We saw all that play out. On the Rams side of it, you see the defensive flashes that you can kind of build through the plan and the pass rush plan and just all the unique wrinkles that they have. And then the downside of the Rams is this is a team over the last couple of years that has struggled in the red zone. And that's exactly what happened again. The two blocked kicks are obviously devastating, but they settle for two field goals early in the game and stall out as they're driving. And even in the moment, it's like, this team is frustrating when they get down there. And I really hope this doesn't come back to bite them.

8:15Robert Mays: And it absolutely did.

8:16Derrik Klassen: That's in my notes is like the meme goes around all the time where every man in America, every dad in America is like big third down here. You know, like people say that all the time in the moment. You're just like, are they going to regret these red zone woes? Like, and even it looked like it was out of hand for the Rams for a minute. But like even when it's a three score game in L.A.'s favor, those missed opportunities linger, especially when Philly starts to put together some positive momentum. And yeah, I mean, it did bite him, Robert. And I wrote that down. I was like, yeah, I hope it doesn't bite him.

8:49Derrik Klassen: But I think it just did.

8:50Dave Helman: And we kind of joked last week when they were just spamming Devontae Adams in the red zone, but they were kind of trying to do it again. And I think there is an element of it where it's like that was supposed to be the solution.

8:59Robert Mays: Exactly. They went out and got Devontae Adams in part because like, oh, this is one of the best red zone receivers of not only his generation. of all time. This will help some of our issues here, kind of, sort of.

9:10Dave Helman: And I think it still might. And I think this might just be a thing of like growing pains, right? Like there's still, for as much as we think that Matthew Stafford is one of the smartest quarterbacks in the league and Devontae Adams is one of the smartest receivers in the league, there is still an element of like, they haven't played that much football and there's just red zone is so bang, bang that it might take until, you know, late November for this to really start to feel right. And so on one hand, it's frustrating that it's still not working to the degree that I think they wanted to at the same time like I'm glad they're at least just like spamming it and we're like hell or high water we're gonna see if this thing can work I think people there's a couple

9:42Robert Mays: people reached out to us during as the games were going and like you know what were the Eagles doing differently in the second half I don't really think that there was a lot of structural changes in what the Eagles were trying to do two things stuck out to me after the strip sack happens they put Fred Johnson in for Matt Pryor at right tackle Fred Johnson somebody they just traded for as part of the Tanks-Bigsby move, I believe. And he was not, I don't think he took any reps at right tackle this week. And so Matt Pryor had been taking those snaps. And so they put Matt Pryor in after Lane Johnson gets hurt.

10:10Robert Mays: After the strip sack by Jared Verse, I think the staff was like, we're done with this. They put Fred Johnson in, who actually I thought had some decent spot moments for them when he was on the Eagles last year. And he did play better than Pryor did down the stretch. And they had more time as they were trying to push the ball down the field. That was part one. part two was throw it to the really big fast strong guy that is better than any of the outside corners that the rams have that to me is as simple as it gets and i want to say i don't know who was calling the game it might have been greg olson it was yeah greg but i mean he said multiple times as the course of that over the course of that happening it's a simple game just throw the ball to that guy and that's what they did i mean that first goal ball he hits over kobe durant and then on the next play it's actually a beautiful decision by jalen hurts on time the rams are in like a weird cover to look.

10:56Robert Mays: Goddard's running up the middle of the field. So it doesn't carry him, hits him on time and it's a touchdown. And, but the play that really stuck out, the play that I think is the one where you really see what AJ Brown is capable of in these high leverage moments, but about eight minutes left in the third quarter, he's one-on-one with Darius Williams on the left side on a third and 10. It's not bad coverage. Like Darius Williams is actually in his hip pocket and he just kind of keeps him at arm's length, literally, and makes the play in traffic. And they eventually go down and score on that drive.

11:27Robert Mays: And that's one of those plays where that's like a true bully ball moment. Like I am bigger, stronger, better than you. And he had a lot of those today, but that was the one that really stuck out.

11:36Derrik Klassen: And I don't want to galaxy brain myself, like throw to the open man. Like that's, that's basic football, right? But sometimes you got to throw to the best player on your team. Like even if he is well covered and just trust that A.J. Brown is going to make you right. Like I thought the coverage on the go ball that started the whole thing wasn't terrible. He was right on him. He made a great catch. You got to go give your guy chances. Give him a chance to make the play. And that's I think it all changes when you're willing to do that. And I don't I don't want to put that on Jalen Hurts definitively because it's again, it's hard to know that stuff.

12:13Derrik Klassen: It's hard to know if that's the game plan, if that's Hurts's decision making. but you got to be willing to rip that type of stuff a handful of times when you have an A.J. Brown and you see how it pays off.

12:25Robert Mays: And then the other one, I think the third and 10 at 448 in the fourth quarter, Fred Johnson does a great job holding up against a versible rush. And J1 has time to find another one on one this time against Forbes for A.J. Brown. So that to me, again, that's like where the game came together. Fred Johnson holding up a little bit better against the Rams edges and then A.J. Brown getting those opportunities and really making the most of

12:46Dave Helman: And those were, Hertz was under pressure all day. The only two completions he had under pressure were the first big one over Durant, where A.J. Brown catches it, and then the one that you just mentioned. But like, it stinks that you only complete two passes under pressure, but when those are the two in like key moments where you're able to get them that far down the field, it's like, again, if you're under pressure, sometimes the answer is just throw it up to 11.

13:09Robert Mays: And I think Jordan Davis had obviously the biggest play of the entire game. That fourth and one though, that fourth and one that you mentioned where they dumped Kyron Williams in the background, that in the backfield, that was Jordan Davis. He's been really good. He's been really, really good this year. And he had another play where he was chasing down Matthew Stafford down on the sideline. Yeah. He was awesome. And so I just, a lot of big plays from Jordan Davis in this game. And that's a moment where the Rams right guard and Kevin Dotson gets hurt. Bo Limmer is in the game. They run right at Bo Limmer on that fourth and one.

13:39Robert Mays: And Jordan Davis absolutely dumps him in the backfield.

13:42Derrik Klassen: I would go as far as to call it like a shocking play call from Sean McVay. Like to just to try to bully your way to the line to gain in that situation against that front with the Rams issues in that area. I mean, in this game and just in general. And they even motioned Puka through the backfield on that play. And I was like, yeah, here comes the misdirection. And they're, nope, they just went right up the gut and it did not work. Another awesome game by Puka Nakua, by the way.

14:09Robert Mays: I mean, just he's just very casual, like 10 for 100 every single week. But we know that. I mean, again, this game felt like such a pure expression of these teams where the Rams are doing a lot of the stuff that they do well. And they come up short in these really high leverage moments. And the Eagles, while being frustrated, come up in these come up big in these high leverage moments. And that ends up being the difference in the game.

14:27Derrik Klassen: Even if it hadn't been one of the most dramatic finishes we've ever seen, it would have been entertaining because it it looked like it was going to be a statement from the Rams. Right. It looked like they were going to put the league on notice. And instead we get that, which I have to mention it on the air. We were talking about it before the show started. Rams plus three and a half. Yeah. If anything other than Jordan Davis recovering that block and taking it to the house. Like even if he blocks it, 99 out of 100 blocks you still cover if you're on the Rams plus three and a half. And that happens instead.

15:03Derrik Klassen: It's one of the worst beats I've ever seen. Like Scott Van Pelt and his crew were salivating seeing that.

15:09Robert Mays: knowing that it's going to go in their show. All right, let's get to some of the other big moments from today. It is time for You Have My Attention. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity.

15:20Derrik Klassen: Now you have my attention.

15:22Robert Mays: The Los Angeles Chargers are now 3-0. They are up on two games on every single team in their division because they have three division wins to start the season. And that would be notable in and of itself, Derek, But what Justin Herbert did on the final touchdown, but also just throughout this game, dealing with the amount of pressure he had to deal with, considering all the Chargers offensive line injuries. These are the types of moments you've been waiting for as a Chargers fan since you realize what sort of quarterback Justin Herbert was. And this team has come through really in all the ways you would have wanted them to over the first three weeks of the season.

15:59Dave Helman: He is exceptional, man. Like it is. It's only been three weeks in the season. you have no idea how long any of this stuff is going to last. But like he, I think through three weeks, has been the best quarterback in the NFL. Like his ability to replace the blitz when he needs to, his ability to stand in the pocket and like step up when he needs to. Like again, the throw that you're mentioning where the final touchdown he throws to Keenan Allen. He gets pressured off through the left guard. He steps up right through like this little crevice in the pocket. He's rolling to his left. And I think it was Nick Benito gets in his face as he's rolling left.

16:30Dave Helman: And he drops his arm slot around Nick Benito. and then puts it right on Allen. And it's like, I don't know how many people in my lifetime I've seen that could make a throw like that. I could count them on my hand. And he's been doing that stuff for years. And the fact that now it's been a little bit more consistent and I think he's been a little bit more active in doing some of that stuff. It's just been, he's been unbelievable. I sort of agree.

16:55Robert Mays: I think he's been a really good quarterback for a long time. I said this even last year when we started seeing this in flashes, he's playing looser over the last couple years than he played under the previous regime the playmaking is a little bit more pronounced the scrambling is obviously a little bit more pronounced and I think that that element I've always joked about this I always wanted him to be 10 % dumber always and I think that we've seen 10 % dumber Justin Herbert over the last couple years where he's willing to not even willing to but just like I think taps into that playmaking ability in a way that he didn't earlier in his career.

17:30Robert Mays: And I do think that has unlocked like a slight next level up for him that we had not realized before the last couple of seasons.

17:38Derrik Klassen: So did like Josh Allen's ignoring the Green Goblin mask these days and Justin Herbert's like listening to it a little bit more? I think that's exactly right.

17:46Robert Mays: They're meeting in the middle. They need to meet in the middle. Yes. The other part of this, I mean, we'll talk about the Chargers defense in a second. They've been fantastic. They lead the league in defense success rate through three weeks. The other guy on the Chargers offense that I think is absolutely worth mentioning in this game. The emergence of Quinton Johnston is like a very real player. I'm so happy for him. You know what? That's exactly my thought as I was going back and watching all of those catches today. He's somebody that had to endure just so much and just people wanting to kick him out the door after the way the first couple of seasons went.

18:18Robert Mays: And for him to show up in the way that he has so far this season has been remarkable. And I think even last year you saw that he could be productive, but it was in a very specific sort of way. It's all deep shots or it's him getting yak opportunities and letting doing some work with it. He was like Mario mushroom Nicole Hardman last year, basically. And I think this year that has not necessarily been the case. I mean, their first play, first drive of the game. He has a third and seven contested catch over the middle, takes it 37 yards after spinning out of a tackle. The 22 yard catch he had late in the second quarter where he makes that twisting play on a scramble drill.

18:53Robert Mays: Like that's an incredible catch. and then he caught a ball on a crosser about halfway through the third quarter and he had to go get it and leave his feet to do it and he takes it for a first down while getting crushed at the marker. It was like a third and long too. Yeah, it was a third and 10. Yeah. And there was a play that he didn't even get a target on in this game. But I remember watching it in real time and I was like, holy shit. Patrick Sertan was on him, I believe in man coverage and he like stacked Patrick Sertan with a release off the line of scrimmage. It's like, all right, if we're trying to figure out how the Chargers offense can be better and different this year, even with some of the offensive line injuries that they're dealing with.

19:30Robert Mays: Justin Herbert is obviously the driving factor of this, but Quentin Johnston being able to tap into the type of player he's been so far this year, I think that's something none of us really even considered as part of how this could be different.

19:41Derrik Klassen: I was going to say that if you didn't. With the number of shows we did about it, whether it was the preview show or any other time we talked about the Chargers, that never came up. It's just like, oh, well, we know what Quentin Johnston is at this point. And it's only three games, but he is playing like a guy that you draft, whatever it was, 23rd overall.

20:00Dave Helman: I just never thought hands-wise we would get there with him. Like, I thought we could get to the point again where he could, you know, get you 700 yards in a year and you could use him in these specific ways. And he could be this really like kind of nice oversized like yak threat or something that you kind of had to feed. But the fact that he could, the twisting catch is like that's probably the one of the best catches he's, it's got to be the best catch he's made as an NFL player. and then again some of the stuff where he's willing to go over the middle and make contested catches where the third and seven you mentioned that's Sertan that's draped over his back like that is he he made a couple of plays back to the ball a little bit yes like and this is all stuff that he had not done before and like the fact that he is you can clearly just see he believes that he can like make those plays now in a way that I just don't think that you saw even a year

20:42Robert Mays: ago the other guy who I think showed up today and got a ton of targets and was definitely involved in the passing game that, again, how is this going to feel different? Aranda Gatston had like a really nice game today. And so now you have just these options kind of rising to this occasion that we didn't necessarily expect. And I think that that was the concern with the Chargers coming into the season is that like they just they weren't very aggressive in adding pieces this offseason. So how was this team going to be better than it was last year? And being patient and waiting for some of these guys to emerge up to this point, it feels like they're being rewarded for being a little bit more methodical in how they were trying to build that room.

21:20Robert Mays: Talk about the Broncos offense part of this because there were some frustrating moments in this game from Bo Nix and just from the Broncos offense in general. You look at the numbers down to down. The Chargers held the Broncos to a 23 % success rate in this game. They had nine first downs the Broncos did. They were two of 13 on third down. You can essentially count the big plays the Broncos had on one hand. You have the four down completion of court one sudden for the touchdown at the end of the half. You have a chunk run to J.K. Dobbins early in the second half. And then you have that weird lateral that Bo Nix throws to J.K.

21:58Robert Mays: Dobbins on that same drive that he takes in for a touchdown. That's pretty much all we got. Like those are the plays for the Broncos in this game. That's how dominant down to down the Chargers defense was throughout this entire thing.

22:08Derrik Klassen: Can we talk about the missed ops on Denver's part though? We sure can. Because, like, you're right, but it gets buried in the box score when the Chargers win this game. Yeah, they're just incomplete passes. Oh, my God, dude. I spent 15 minutes just charting this because I wanted to know exactly what they left out there. Bo Nix was one of four for 52 yards and a touchdown on throws of 20-plus air yards. So he hit them for one. That was the fourth down. That was the fourth down to Sutton. That was the only one. The other three, it's the flea flicker. Marvin Mims gets wide ass open on a stutter go easily.

22:49Derrik Klassen: And like, I don't have to sit here and guess like, oh, maybe he makes that guy miss. Maybe he doesn't. No, he's behind everyone down the sideline. It's a 63 yard touchdown, overthrows him. Safety's bit on the fake. Brutal miss. and then later, like not that long later, he misses Mims again, gets Tony Jefferson caught flat-footed down the seam. And again, I don't have to do any guesswork because it was in the end zone. He overthrows a 28-yard touchdown. And then the last one, I think it was to Cortland Sutton. That one you kind of have to do a little bit of guesstimating because there's a safety closing on it, but bare minimum, it's a 40-yard completion that puts them in field goal range with like in the two-minute range.

23:32Derrik Klassen: like the most brutal of missed opportunities and three of them in the same game. I mean, you're talking about leaving a minimum of 14 points, if not 17 to 21 points on the field. It's devastating if you're a Denver fan. The Bo Nicks offense is getting frustrating to me

23:49Dave Helman: because I think we're at the stage now where like there are only three plays where I feel like he makes consistently, which is if they boot him out, he can throw the crosser. He can do even they actually did have a fourth and one later in the game to Sutton where he hit him on that. So it's like, okay, he can hit some of those crossers. He throws well on the move. Those like frontside digs that if it's just like, that's the first read and Sutton's running at 16 yards, he'll hit him straight there. Like he can throw that. And then it's on a good day, some of the downfield shots. And he didn't have a good day with that today.

24:17Dave Helman: And so it's like, you're only hitting on two out of three. The run game is not quite as consistent as you want it to be. I know they had a couple of chunk plays, but like, I'm just, the inconsistency with the passing offense is getting a little bit frustrating to me. And he was just overall not accurate today. even on some of the stuff that ball was out on time, all that stuff, he just wasn't very accurate today.

24:36Robert Mays: Through three games, the Broncos ranked 31st in offensive success rate so far. The only team that's worse than them, a team we're going to talk about shortly after here, is the Houston Texans. That's it. So the Broncos down to down, it has been very frustrating. I do think that the Chargers have really reminded us of what makes them a difficult defense to play against over the last couple of weeks though. And even going back and rewatching the Monday night game, just how they relate to routes in some of these zone coverages and how tight things feel. And even the one early in the game today where it was 1026 left in the first quarter.

25:07Robert Mays: It's a third and three. And Gilman just comes flying downhill to break it up for an incompletion. There's a short completion that Bo Nix has later in the game to, I believe, J.K. Dobbins. Tony Jefferson is flying downhill to make a hit for no game. That secondary is playing so much better than the sum of the parts. They're missing players. like the fact that they're doing this and Elijah Molden's not even playing we talked about Tony Jefferson on Monday night like it really is a testament just how well coached that group is I think that you've really seen that over the first few weeks where they just make everything down to

25:42Dave Helman: down so incredibly difficult even on one of those final red zone drives I think it was the third down Bo Nix is trying to hit I think it was uh Franklin on like a little crosser to the right side and Jefferson just flies down on it and slams him and it's incomplete like just little plays like that they are a defense that nobody has ever flat-footed nobody's ever just standing on grass like they are like you said they're relating to routes they're making sure and every now and then you're going to be wrong and that's why I think sometimes down the field they have some like explosive play issues but they're a defense that's either gonna you have to hit three of those explosive plays or you have to be perfect within 10 yards and I just the the Broncos offense and Bo Nix were not able to do that today and most teams aren't the best parts of what the Chargers

26:21Robert Mays: are right now are undeniably exciting. I find myself just a little bit worried about what the pass protection is going to look like over the course of the season. Are you remembering the John Franklin Myers? I'm remembering the John Franklin Myers play against Jamari Salyer. And obviously that's your backup right guard, but it's a lot of backups on the offensive line right now. Trey Pickens comes out of this game at some point. He's already the backup right tackle. Bradley Bozeman gets banged up in this game. He comes out at some point. Justin Herbert today pressured on 54.7 % of his dropbacks per next gen.

26:49Robert Mays: they win the game despite of that but and they're not going to play the Broncos every week I completely understand that but it's hard to watch that game and not come away with that lingering in the back of your mind even when you can get excited about so much about this team right now

27:02Derrik Klassen: they also lose Najee Harris to what looks like a serious injury and not to say that Amari and Hampton he's clearly not a finished product but he's been dealing with some rookie struggles and it would have been nice to have a more stabilizing veteran running back doesn't look like that's going to be the case. I mean, yeah.

27:20Robert Mays: Najee had four successful carries on his six rushing attempts today. He looked like he had a little bit of giddy up too. And to lose him for the season, I absolutely think that's worth mentioning.

27:28Derrik Klassen: They hit Herbert 14 times today. I mean, just a Herculean

27:34Robert Mays: effort from that guy today. The last thing I'll bring up about the Chargers defense before we move on, we've talked about this a bunch. If you can't run them out of the looks they want to play, you're going to run into issues. And they actually did play more stack boxes today than they typically do. And a lot of their bigger stops against the run were in stack boxes. But even considering that the chart, the Broncos finished with a 27 % design rush success rate in this game against the chargers. If you're going to be successful on a quarter of your runs against this team, you're going to lose. You're going to lose unless your defense does something miraculous, which Broncos defense almost did today.

28:07Robert Mays: But for the most part, if that's how you're going to run the ball against the chargers, it's going to be very hard to beat them because that's the way they want to play defense. And unless you can make them pay for it, it's going to be a really long day at the office. Before we move on, we're going to take a quick break. One thing I love about summer is how easy everything feels.

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31:07Derrik Klassen: Hey, it's Lauren Dragon from Wirecutter, the product recommendation service from the New York Times. And I test headphones.

31:13Robert Mays: We basically make our own fake sweat and spray it over and over on these headphones to see what happens to them over time. We're going to put on some noise-canceling headphones and see how well they actually block out the sound.

31:24Derrik Klassen: I have 3 ,136 entries in my database. Kids, workout, what version of Bluetooth? At Wirecutter, we do the work so you don't have to. For independent product reviews and recommendations for the real world, come visit us at nytimes.com slash Wirecutter.

31:42Robert Mays: get to our next one here the indianapolis colts are now 3-0 after a 41-20 win over the titans we've talked about the colts a decent amount over the past couple weeks but it's been with that tone of like oh man colts offense is this real like how are we going to deal with this and it's another great performance from the offense but dave the way i wanted to frame this is it's not just about the offense here. The Colts are now 3-0 and look like the best team in the AFC South. And so my takeaway here is the Colts playoff chances after three weeks. You have my attention. Like it really looks like they have the inside track to do this.

32:20Derrik Klassen: I mean, the stat people love to throw out since 1990. It's roughly give or take a percentage point or two, 75 % chance of making the postseason if you start 3-0. So that's, I mean, three out of four ain't bad. There's still plenty of room for for variance I'm not saying the hay is in the barn yet but you got to take that seriously I mean 75 % chance that you get over the finish line with a 3-0 start and I don't know I don't know how much I take away from handling business against Tennessee obviously I mean this this is a maddening Tennessee team we know that at this point in the season but you go on the road in the division pretty heavily favored for a road team I think they were four and a half five point favorites on the road.

33:02Derrik Klassen: You look like that, you know, I mean, it does, especially we're going to get to some other results here where you do not take things for granted in the NFL. So for the Colts to pick six Cam Ward at the very beginning of this game and the rest of it to just kind of look like a yawner, given some of the other results we saw around the league on Sunday, that means something to me, even if the Titans aren't actually an impressive team.

33:25Dave Helman: I think it's just that like, this was a team that we thought outside of Miami, which again, funny enough that they played the first week of the season might have had like some of the worst vibes going into the season and now they have clearly found something where it's like the quarterback is playing well he's comfortable everything that you talked about with like how the skill players were supposed to come together I think has really been kind of beautiful like Jonathan Taylor is again playing like some of his best football which I think is impressive and then Alec Pierce like continues to be a better player Michael Pittman looks healthier Tyler Warren is who you thought he was going to be and even I think the young offensive line like they've been a little bit up and down because you've got some new guys at center and right guard, but like they've had their moments, especially at right guard.

34:03Dave Helman: So like, I just, you know, it's all coming together.

34:06Derrik Klassen: Daniel Jones, once again, had a top five or bottom five, like lowest pressure rate. Like he was 25 % pressure rate, unbothered in the pocket, not sweating it at all.

34:17Robert Mays: I think the bad vibes thing coming off the Colts is something a lot of people saw from the outside, because when you have quarterback uncertainty and when you're essentially moving on from a guy you drafted in the top five, I think there's a lot of urgency around people's job security. And I think the lack of playoff success had created that sort of urgency. But we laid this out on the AFC preview show, trying to figure out what a successful season looked like for the Colts. And my thought was everything else about the roster, top to bottom, is so good that you missing out on Anthony Richardson ends up not mattering.

34:48Robert Mays: That's where I ended the Colts conversation. Did I believe that was going to happen? Probably not. but I did think that was the best way for this to play out. And that's exactly what has happened so far. We talked a lot about the offensive line playing as well as it has with two new starters. That's, I think, been something you could believe in based on what this group had looked like over the last three or four years. And then the pass catchers coming together in really the best possible way they could have. You know, I've always thought Josh Downs was somebody just waiting to be unleashed with a more consistent, normal sort of offense.

35:19Robert Mays: And we've seen that over the first couple of weeks. the play he had I think it was 1043 in the second quarter I want to say he just breaks off Roger McCreary unlike he takes it vertical and then at the top of the route just like puts his foot in the ground he's done some crazy stuff over the first couple weeks and what he did to the Broncos last week like he's somebody that is like a star that's been hiding in plain sight I think we're starting to realize it because the health of the offense is better Michael Pittman doing all the stuff you expect from Michael Pittman the best throw that Daniel Jones made today in my opinion was the Pittman touchdown for 26 to seven, where he rips that intermediate high low over the middle where I'm like, okay, like if he's going to do this, like I'm a hundred percent all the way in.

35:59Robert Mays: We're getting all of the Tyler Warren design touch stuff. We have a screen to Tyler Warren for a chunk game. They're on a slide play action with him in the flat where they get him the ball in space. And then the biggest surprise to me based on the way that he has played within this offense among all of the pass catchers has been Alec Pierce. Because for the most part, Alec Pierce when he's been in his best for the Colts it's been as a downfield vertical option where you're just throwing the ball up to him he's done plenty of that this year but all the other like nuanced varied things he's bringing to the table like he comes there's a bender at 9 39 in the first quarter I want to say where he really does a great job coming back to the ball over the middle of the field he goes down and gets a crosser like it was a little like a crosser return where he comes brings it back to the corner.

36:47Robert Mays: Daniel Jones throws it on time. It's a little bit low. Pierce goes down and makes a play on it. Like he's becoming a much more layered receiver than he's been at points in his career. So if he's going to level up and all the other guys are bringing what they're bringing to the table, it just becomes a really scary group to have to play against week in and week out.

37:05Dave Helman: And honestly, you have all that where the offense has come together in the best way that it possibly could. And like the defense isn't world beating, but like the vision for them was like, can you at least be like average and maybe if we shoot a little bit above that, that would be great. And they're like, to me, like about an average defense. I think the pass rush is solid. I think Luana Rumo is a good coordinator. Obviously, when you open the game with a pick six, it's a pretty good way to start a game. But like, I think that part of, if the offense can continue to be like what it's been, where you can consistently score what they've scored, and then the defense, again, can at least give you a chance in most of these games and you don't feel like you're chasing the other team, it's a pretty good formula if Jones can keep playing like this.

37:42Robert Mays: And then Daniel Jones, there's been at least one or two plays coming into this week he had the best success rate in the nfl when pressured i assume that's continued after what we saw today there were several plays where he was pressured and the one where it's just like this is how you know you're hot there was that third and seven at one point where i think it was there's an unblocked or there was pressure in at some point in his face and he spins out of it and then scrambles for a first down when those plays are going your way it's like all right it's all coming up colts here over the first three weeks of the season.

38:14Robert Mays: The number that really jumped out to me today, though, and this is something where can this continue when the game script sort of changes? I think it's worth monitoring. On play action throws today, Daniel Jones, 10 of 11 for 137 yards. So far this season, he has used play action on 41.5 % of his dropbacks. That is the highest rate in the league, and he still, even with all of that play action, has less than a 2.7 an average time to throw. Like the ball is just coming out immediately because guys are open. And that's part of him being decisive. But I mean, this is all coming together in a bunch of different ways.

38:53Robert Mays: And I do think there are some areas for like slight regression, but I, for the most part, believe in a lot of what's happening.

38:59Derrik Klassen: And we talked about this during, like in the afternoon, while all this was still happening, like there will be regression. I mean, they're not going to go undefeated. I feel comfortable saying that. it looks real enough that I think even with regression, it'll still be pretty good. And especially now you have three wins in your back pocket already. I feel really good. I feel really good about this Colts team. And then there's the other half of it too, which is what the rest of this division looks like.

39:29Robert Mays: So let's talk about the rest of the AFC South today. And the way that I want to get into this conversation, Colts are 3-0. They have a commanding lead both in the wins and loss column and the vibes column in the AFC South. We put a team at the table on our preview show. We put the Rams in at the 10 team seat at the table that we did before the season started. The 10 kind of real Super Bowl contenders that we thought existed going into the season. We took the Bengals out, put the Rams in. Even with the Rams lost today, still feel like that was the correct decision based on what Sunday looked like.

40:00Robert Mays: For sure. They played a high quality game. They took it at the brink, basically. Okay. Another team that we had on as part of the initial exercise, the team that I think had the biggest disagreement of any of them during that conversation. You guys wanted to put the Houston Texans at the table going into the season. See how he just put that on us right now? Well, I'm fine with that. I'll do it again. You guys wanted to put the Texans at the table. I am comfortable right now, three weeks into the season, with the Texans being 0-3. You mentioned the stats about being 3-0. I think we might have to take the Texans off the table.

40:31Robert Mays: I do not think they deserve a seat after the way the first three weeks have gone.

40:35Derrik Klassen: I was curious about this while we were prepping for the show. The Texans have scored 38 points through the first three weeks of the season. They are now the 12th team in the last decade to fail to score 40 points in their first three games. Half of the other 11 wound up picking in the top five in the next draft. like I mean you're keeping company with the 2019 Dolphins the 2018 Arizona Cardinals which led them to Kyler Murray you're keeping company with the Jets team that played their way into Zach Wilson as well as the Jets team that played their way into Sauce Gardner I don't know if that's where the Texans are heading but that's the company that you're keeping when you can't score 40 points in your first three weeks so yeah I'm not gonna sit up here and defend Houston anymore Derek I I when we had that argument in mid-August zero part of me believed the Texans would win a Super Bowl this year I did think we would make it out of September before I gave up on what they're what they're

41:39Dave Helman: doing right now I think the most frustrating part is that to me the formula was just like the defense will be special and the quarterback is really good I still think the quarterback is pretty good and the defense has done what it's supposed to do like they've only allowed 55 points through three games which is like not special I guess but they've been very very good and held up their end of the bargain it's just I think all of the other parts of the offense that were supposed to kind of culminate for this team particularly off the offensive line have just not like I think the pass protection plan has not looked any better the backs do not know any of what they're doing in pass protection.

42:14Dave Helman: Like they've had a lot of flubs really all three weeks. And then I think there was some idea that like maybe just was shuffling some pieces around the offensive line. And if the plan is a little bit better, these guys can hold up. And I just think we've gotten to the worst spot where just talent wise, they can't hold up in a lot of these situations.

42:31Robert Mays: The offensive line is the driving force of this to me. Yeah. And I think that when you have this level of concern with your pass protection, it starts just affecting everything you try to be on offense. And to me, the best example today is just the screens they're trying to throw. And on screen passes in this game today, the Texans were two of three for five yards with no successful plays. Terrible. They're just, when you watch them play, there's nowhere for them to turn right now. There's nothing, what are they good at? What are they trying to be good at? I think they have no idea. I think the lack of trust in the pass protection has started to short circuit both the quarterback and the play caller because they just feel like they have nowhere to turn right now.

43:13Robert Mays: And what we talked about with CJ Stroud in the back half of last year where I really did feel like that antsiness in the pocket that we saw, some of the inaccuracies, some of the issues with decision-making because of how bad the pass protection was, I feel like that started to affect him now. This is somebody that as a rookie was really aggressive, ambitious as a passer. You watch it now. He's trying to get to these checkdowns as quickly as he can because he knows that he does not have time to get through anything as part of these plays. And then the offense starts to retreat within itself. And I think that is what this group has already started to feel like three weeks into the season.

43:48Derrik Klassen: What pisses me off on top of all of this, especially as somebody who, for better or for worse, backed the Texans in August, as bad as it's been, they're so close to potentially having a winning record right now. Like Dario Bungawale fumbles late in that Rams game to sink that hope. Baker Mayfield had to scramble for 15 yards on fourth and 10 on Monday night, or else that never gets off the ground. And then today, Nico Collins is turned to let you down where he fumbles on the Jacksonville 30 with less than four minutes to play. They're so close to being a bad team with a defensible record. And again, maybe that means like they don't deserve a seat at the table, But we wouldn't be having to have this conversation if they find a way to win even one of these games.

44:38Derrik Klassen: And they're 0-3, and that's just not historically where you want to be. It's a brutal, brutal breaks on top of just not being that good of a team.

44:49Dave Helman: You're just too far behind it to this point. And part of why the Texans have been able to win some playoff games recently is they've had home field advantage, at least in their first game, because they were able to just win a bad division. I think now it's trending to the point that even if they were able to scrape things together and get back to the playoffs They'd probably be a wild card team Not the same caliber of team that they've been recently The last thing I would want to say is that like what you're mentioning was cj stroud Feels a little bit like what the herbert arc was like as a rookie He was a guy who just was like he was chucking it, bro And he was he was just like immediately ready to just throw it down the field Cj stroud did a lot of that and then there were a couple years there It took a little bit longer because I think like the second and third year for herbert were still good But he had that like during the Kellen Moore era, the Joe Lombardi stuff where it just felt like everything kind of came into itself and he just wasn't playing as free as he used to.

45:36Derrik Klassen: So which takes me back to a show we did when I first joined on Derek, which was the Texans had a confusing offseason. And I convinced myself that the defense might be the great equalizer for them. But now we're sitting here three weeks into the season and I'm like, I know CJ Stroud is better than this. and I know that the Texans haven't set him up for success as well as they could have considering his cheap rookie years. They're not over, but you're starting to need to look forward to him being a much more expensive player, and it's like, ah, the Texans did not maximize this window.

46:11Robert Mays: The pick from CJ Stroud today is a play that you wanted to talk about because it's actually a really nice play by Jordan Lewis. So I think some people are going to look at that play specifically and kind of take issue with the idea that CJ Stroud isn't playing poorly. What did you see from the interception that Jordan Lewis had today that kind of speaks to the quality of the play from Jordan Lewis as much as it's a bad play from CJ Stroud?

46:30Dave Helman: Yeah, so it's funny. Dave and I were talking about this today. It felt like every quarterback in the league tried to throw this interception today. But basically, Jordan Lewis is the flat player. And I believe it was like a three deep three under pressure. And CJ Stroud is trying to throw that like 10, 12 yard outbreaking route towards the sideline over. And that's a route that you don't have a whole lot of time to like sit there in the pocket and look at it. that's like a very anticipatory timing route. Like you've just got to let it go. And so if you're going to do that and you maybe feel the flat defender, you got to put a little bit more arc over it.

47:00Dave Helman: And if you're going to, this is another thing. Quarterbacks have to know where their miss is. And for that route, your miss is a little bit high and over the sideline. And CJ Stroud kind of tries to line drive it. And Jordan Lewis just does an awesome job as the flat defender, kind of seeing that CJ Stroud's going to go make that throw, float back up onto the route and just pick it off. And it's just like, that is the type of route that they know because the offensive line is so bad, the ball is going to have to come out and CJ Stroud wants the ball to come out immediately, that they can kind of take gambles like that as coverage players.

47:29Dave Helman: And Jordan Lewis did a really good job of taking advantage.

47:32Robert Mays: Jordan Lewis has been really good this year. He's had some really good moments. He had another deep play in this game carrying the seam towards the end of the game. Jordan Lewis has been really good. And then Josh Heinz Allen has been awesome for the Jaguars. He had another fantastic game today. Arante Urseri just had absolutely no shot against Josh Heinz Allen over the course of this game. There was one play, it was in the start, it was a drive to start it was in the third quarter about six minutes left in the third quarter to start the drive the Texans try to run some sort of pin pull to the left side and this is to me just so indicative of where this team is right now Nico Collins misses Josh Hines Allen with a little pin block on the edge he gets out Ursary then gets dinged for a 15 yard face mask penalty on this play it's an unsuccessful run plus a penalty and then it just completely short circuits the drive before it even starts in this game today the Texans had a 13 % design rush success rate.

48:23Robert Mays: 13%. And that, when I say, there's nowhere they can turn right now. There's nothing they can try to tap into. That's where it starts. When the offensive line and the run game are that bad, everything else kind of becomes a non-starter. And that's what this team feels like right now. I'm sure there's going to be a ton of people dogging Nick Haley for where the first three games of the season have gone. And I completely understand that, where you fire your offensive coordinator, You bring in somebody else that was a coveted option. He turned down jobs in the last cycle. The Jets wanted him. He ended up going to Houston.

48:55Robert Mays: And why isn't this better? I'm sure a lot of people in that staff are frustrated right now. But when you don't have anything to build on because of what the quality up front looks like, I think everybody's job becomes really, really hard. The quarterback, the play caller, everyone. And I think that's what we're starting to feel right now with the Texans. With the seat of the table conversation, we are taking the Texans off. we're not putting anyone else on right now. Because I don't, we never said that we had to have 10. We said 10 was the maximum. And as it currently stands, I know the Texans shouldn't be there.

49:29Robert Mays: I'm not sure who the 10th team should be. I think you can make a really solid argument for the Bucs, but I also think you can make a really good argument for the Chargers. And I kind of want to sleep on it for a couple days. And when we get a little bit deeper into the week, maybe on the week four preview show, that's when we'll decide who gets the actual seat at the table.

49:47Derrik Klassen: I know that Charger fans and Bucs fans are like walking their dogs or exercising and just like screaming at that. Do you think any Vikings fans are feeling themselves enough after Sunday that they're screaming into their headsets?

50:03Robert Mays: I'm not sure we've gotten there yet. I'm not doing that. I think two defensive touchdowns against Jay Brown. We need a little more. Yeah, I'm not sure we're quite there yet. I think those are the two teams that I would throw out at this point. I'm sure Colts fans might be the ones that are like, We actually deserve to be included here. But right now, I'm just not in a position where I'm willing to make a definitive argument about it. Because we upped the stakes on the preview show. If you take a team off, they're off for good. So I think that there's a lot riding on who gets in and who gets out.

50:29Robert Mays: I'm not in a position where I'm willing to pick a team right now. I just know the Texans don't deserve to be in there.

50:34Derrik Klassen: Do we get to watch another week before we have to put a new team on? Or do we have to decide?

50:40Robert Mays: I think there's a certain limit on it. I think by the end of the week, we need to decide who it is. Go back and watch. We can all marinate on it for a little bit, but I think by the end of the week, we're going to need to decide. Okay. Last one here, and you have my attention. The San Francisco 49ers has not always been pretty over the first three weeks of the season, but the Niners are 3-0 and in first place in the NFC West, despite the fact that they have been with Akbrok Purdy for two straight games. They have missed George Kittle for most of the season up to this point, and this Niners team that was absolutely decimated by injury last season have gotten bit by the injury bug again Nick Bosa goes out of this game but three weeks into the season they are 3-0 they are in first place you mentioned those stats about making the playoffs when you're 3-0 so the Niners even if it has not always looked pretty three games into the year you guys firmly have my

51:30Derrik Klassen: attention can I just since I have the Niners on my wins pool team I would also just like to point out Juwan Jennings inactive for this game. Michael Williams left for a little while. He came back, but they were missing him. He was awesome when he came back, actually.

51:43Dave Helman: I don't know what they, I don't know what was going on after he was left.

51:46Derrik Klassen: And I'll just throw Brandon Ayuk out there too. Like this team is beat to shit and they're 3-0. Mack Jones, 2-0 as a starter. The Niners already have more wins in the division this year than they had all of last year. So like, yeah. Yeah, dude. That's crazy. If this is where they are with that much attrition, then I feel pretty damn good about what this team could look like down the stretch.

52:09Dave Helman: And that's really all it is. Like, I don't feel any better about this 49ers team.

52:14Robert Mays: I don't know what to do about the entire NFC West right now.

52:16Dave Helman: I really don't. That's the thing. I don't feel any better about this 49ers team. But if nothing else, the fact that this was a team that we thought because they were maybe a very top heavy roster that this could be a little bit up and down at times. The fact that they've given themselves such a cushion when you haven't had your starter for most of the year, you haven't had your best offensive player for a lot of the year. I think you can even make the argument that like CMC, I think, is still trying to get like his legs under him as a player. Like it's been such a weird and rocky thing. The defense is still trying to figure out what it wants to be, even though I think they've been pretty solid.

52:44Dave Helman: Like it's just so much uncertainty and like missing guys. And for them to get out of it, three and oh is like unbelievable level of comfort.

52:52Robert Mays: Yeah. You assume that the defense will even be more cohesive by the end of the season. We'll see what happens with Bosa. But they have so many young pieces. And Mac Jones, to his credit, he was banged up today. right I mean clearly was not 100 % and you look at what he was like in the fourth quarter that fourth and two go ball the pierce all in the fourth quarter is a beautiful play by both of those guys and then even not 100 % that drive that ends up with a 20 yard screen to CMC to set up the win he has multiple like playing point guard completions on that drive so credit to him for doing what he needed to do over those first two over these last two weeks but again I don't know what to make of the division right the Niners are 3-0 I think the Rams are still the best team I think the Rams, based on what they've shown us, are probably the best team in the division.

53:36Robert Mays: The Seahawks have looked pretty good in ways that have been surprising. We're not going to talk a ton about that game today. I mean, they destroyed the Saints in every way that you could. When you have a punt return touchdown and a block punt that leads to a quick touchdown and make a 21-0 in the first quarter, the rest of the game starts to matter a little bit less in terms of what you can take from it. That's one where it's just over immediately. that this is what I'll say about the Seahawks. I think that the defense over the course of the season is going to be a good unit based on Mike McDonald and the talent.

54:06Robert Mays: The most impressive and the most encouraging thing to me has been how explosive the offense has been because that is something we had real questions about coming into the year. And JSN has really shown off a new gear as like a downfield piece in this offense. And I think him really exemplifying that has kind of changed the framing of what we could expect from this unit. But there was like a two play stretch in the first half of this game where Darnold just has this rip off play action to A.J. Barner on a corner out on the right sideline. And then the next play, I want to say, comes back with a little fade ball to Torrey Horton for a touchdown.

54:42Robert Mays: And it's like, all right, like I know it's the Saints defense, but them being able to push the ball down the field the way they have has been really encouraging. Through three games, the Seattle Seahawks have the highest explosive pass rate in professional football. and even if you were optimistic about what the Seahawks could be this year with the defense running game all that stuff that version of the offense I don't think is what anybody expected so I'm at least intrigued by what it's going to look like down the stretch but overall and then the Cardinals Cardinals are almost a 3-0 team and I'm disappointed in what the Cardinals have been this year so it's just been a very strange first three weeks of the season in the NFC West for a bunch of different reasons.

55:25Derrik Klassen: Only division in the league where everybody's above 500. And yeah, I mean, a couple snaps go the other way and we could be having a similar conversation about the Cardinals as we just did about the Niners, where it's like, you know, considering what you're dealing with, it's pretty amazing that you're three and oh. Before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break.

55:45Robert Mays: Let's get to the other side of what happened today and some of the moments that I still am not sure I fully understand. It is time for What the F***.

55:55Derrik Klassen: What the F***? What the F***? What?

55:58Robert Mays: The Green Bay Packers, who looked like the best team in the NFL over the first two weeks, lose to the Cleveland Browns today, 13-10, and including another one of those blocked field goals at the end of the game in the early window where it was hard to keep track of everything that was happening. The Packers, after looking like the best team in the NFL for the first two weeks. What the f***?

56:23Dave Helman: I feel the worst about this. I was kind of joking that this team could go undefeated. I still think that they're going to be one of the best teams in the league, but to lose a game like this is just incredibly frustrating. They at no point felt like themselves. Like, first of all, I think this is always going to be a team that wants to build through the run game, turn that into play action shots. Like that's been the whole formula since LeFleur has been there. It was true with Rodgers. It's been true with Jordan Love. 23.3 % rushing success rate today, 2.6 yards per carry. And I actually don't I don't want to just do like, oh, you know, I know the Green Bay offensive line was banged up.

56:56Dave Helman: You know, Tom ends up leaving this game. Banks ends up leaving this game, which means that Jordan Morgan has to flip flop with all his spots. Like they were dealing with a lot of stuff.

57:04Robert Mays: That was the same line they had last week.

57:05Dave Helman: And that's what I was going to say. The Cleveland defensive line is really good right now. They own this game. They own it. And they owned the game last week against Baltimore. And, like, Miles Garrett has been doing this ever since he stepped into the league. But, like, Malik Collins looks phenomenal again. And Mason Graham, I think, explosiveness-wise, has looked exactly what you want him to.

57:25Robert Mays: That first sack, the first sack of the game, it is just a twist with Malik Collins and Mason Graham on the inside. And Elton Jenkins fails to pick it up. And so you saw that all day where it was just those interior guys. Miles Garrett's always going to have his moments over the course of a game. They were paying him a lot of attention. To me, it was all the other guys in this game. It was Malik Collins. It was Mason Graham. And you know who else had some really nice moments? Isaiah McGuire had some really nice moments in this game, both as a run defender and as a pass rusher. So if you're going to go three or four deep other than Miles Garrett, that's when this group starts to get a little bit scary.

57:57Robert Mays: And I think you really saw that today.

57:59Derrik Klassen: They got them twice with that twist. Like they did the same thing later in the game and got the same result. Mason Graham, especially on that first one, like he like slingshotted himself off the guard. It reminded me of like Talladega Knights, like shake and bake. Like this is incredible. They are freaking terrifying. And obviously Miles Garrett is a huge part of that. But yeah, all the other guys are playing their role in it. And it's very impressive.

58:27Dave Helman: And if you're going to play man the way they want to play man, You need to be a team that like we're going to get teams into second and 10. And then we're just going to sprint at them with a bunch of banshees on the defensive line. And that's exactly they finally have some of the talent to do that now. And so I think you definitely saw that kind of, like I said, disrupt what the Packers want to do against Detroit. The Packers had four attempts beyond 20 yards against Washington. They had seven in this game. They had one. And that was because so much of the formula is we're going to run. We're going to get into second and three.

58:56Dave Helman: And now we can take our shot plays. Well, if you never get into those downs and then you end up in a lot more third and sixes, that's when I think especially when your offensive line is a little banged up. That's how you end up in these in these spots. Did you peep what Jordan Love's air yards per attempt wound up being in this game?

59:10Derrik Klassen: No, I did not. Did you? Is it going to disappoint me? It might blow your mind. It was 1.6. That's that should never. He should never be under like seven. It was half of the next worst guy. Like the next worst. I think it was actually Josh on Thursday night. Josh Allen had like 3.2 air yards per attempt.

59:28Dave Helman: that like he was clearly that was my design operating within like it was just a lot of quick game that he was operating well this game was just like what else am i so open and they

59:37Derrik Klassen: were throwing screens exactly like that was it he threw 70 of his attempts on flats slants and screens i just nothing nothing doing i think they clearly were aware of the fact that they were

59:48Robert Mays: outmanned and pass protection throughout the entire game i think that fed into the way that they were trying to approach it i mean there are so many different examples we don't even have to go through them all just each individual guy on the on the Browns line winning one-on-one matchups over the course of this game that to me the best example the uh there was a play in the fourth quarter before a punt where it was the third down and they had Miles Garrett coming on like a big twist all the way around and Love just dumps it down to Josh Jacobs in the flat and that's the end of the draft and that's how the game felt where he just sped up and really having to hit things underneath the entire day because of their concerns about the pass protection but then you combine that with some really nice moments from the Browns secondary and some high leverage moments so there was a play it was the third nine after a false start there were a couple big false starts for the Packers in this game by the way they had two massive ones one before the blocked field goal made that made it five yards longer and then it turned into a third and 15 run for Josh Jacobs so you move back five yards that field goal gets blocked then there was another one in the third quarter where it was a third and one they get a false start and then on the next play love gets sacked so i think that's just worth bringing up in a game where the margins were incredibly thin but do you combine that with the fact that they did have some really nice moments from the secondary throughout this game third and nine after one of those false starts there's a crazy play by denzel ward where he follows wicks all the way across the formation and motion and then somehow gets a PBU on an out route to that side.

1:01:20Robert Mays: And then Grant Delpit gave up a big completion in this game when he was supposed to play cover two. And it was like, I believe the Matthew Golden one down the right sideline. But other than that, Grant Delpit, both as a dime linebacker and then just as a safety, took away multiple throwing windows in this game. And then that pick is one of the biggest plays of the entire game, if not the biggest play. He pretty much won the game with that interception. And like that was a, you better be right with what you're doing here type of play.

1:01:46Dave Helman: Cause they are in the, the Packers have, you know, three receivers lined up to the left side and they are playing man coverage. Delpit is lined up over the number three and Jordan love again, feeling a little bit sped up. He's, he's not thinking about like anything happening. He's just like, I see man coverage here, pre-snap. That's what it looks like. And that's what it plays out as. And he's like, I'm just going to throw the slant to my number two. I'm going to throw it a little bit low. We're going to hope that he can go get it. Delpit knows that the ball is going to come out fast and he immediately falls off his man and just slides into that window to the number two and picks it off and that's just like a again when you know the pass rush can do what it can do and is going to speed up the quarterback as a coverage defender you can take some risks and take some gambles and that was just Delpit fully taking

1:02:27Derrik Klassen: advantage of what he was able to I thought you were coping earlier in the day when you said when you said that and I went back and watched it and I was like this is still a bad it's a bad play from Jordan Love. Yeah. But it was a really good play from Grant Delpit too.

1:02:39Robert Mays: I think both of those things can be true. And I think that people are going to look at this game and be kind of shocked based on how the Packers have played over the first two weeks. But I'll say this, the Ravens almost had this game last week against the Browns. Like I do think that over the first three weeks, the Browns defense has shown us that they have the capacity to be something serious, even with a couple of the guys that they are missing coming into this season.

1:03:01Derrik Klassen: I love that for Browns fans too, because like we know what the score was with this team, right? And I mean, they're still one and two. And this took an incredible effort to pull this off. Right. Like I still I think wins are probably going to be more few and far between for the Browns, or at least even even if they win more than I'm giving credit for. It's not something you could go into the week expecting. But when you have a defense like this, like they were bad last year and they're good and fun again. They've only allowed two explosive runs in three games. They allowed 70 last year. Like they were allowing four explosive runs a week last year.

1:03:36Derrik Klassen: So they're back to that type of unit that can win you a game like this. And if you're stuck in the quarterback wilderness, it's at least fun to A, get to watch these guys rush the passer. But B, also think like, hey, we'll have a chance to win some games if they play like this. It's more than anybody gave the Browns credit for it.

1:03:53Robert Mays: Absolutely. And again, going back to like what does success look like for the Cleveland Browns this year? It was the rookies that we have look like real players across the board. And so far, they've gotten some pretty good results from those guys. Fannin's had his moments. Mason Graham today probably was his best game as a pro so far. Swessinger had a sack that was wiped off today for a kind of tic-tac penalty that probably shouldn't have happened. You've had Dylan Sampson, his first game. Quinshot Junkins has had some moments since he came into the lineup. So that, I think they're checking that box.

1:04:23Robert Mays: And the other part was, does our defense look like our defense again? They don't have to be the best defense in the league, but can this be a defined strength of who we are? When we have Miles Garrett and Denzel Ward and a decent supporting cast, can we be a team that's really hard to play against week in and week out moving forward? You're checking that box as well. So I don't know what the wins and losses will look like by the end of the year, but the things the Browns wanted to be this year, so far, I think they've actually made good on some of those things.

1:04:51Derrik Klassen: I'm glad what you said. I'm glad you said what you said about the Packers potentially going undefeated, too, because that's so bad timing by me. But you're not alone, dude. The whole Packers team sort of had that vibe after last week where they're like, yeah, we're chasing greatness already. And I can imagine grumpy old Wisconsinites in dive bars across the state just being like, you're like, they were already looking ahead. You can't take anything for granted in this league.

1:05:20Robert Mays: And I mean, it's a cliche, but it's true. Two stats I'll throw out before we move on from this game. Jordan Love, when pressured today, 4 of 7 for 21 yards. the Browns had a 42 % pressure rate per next gen on non blitzes in this game so it's not like they were throwing a lot of extra bodies at this thing they were winning with four consistently and this banged up and kind of rotating Packers offensive line just really could not hold up against this group and I think you felt that in the run game all day and you felt that really whenever they

1:05:52Dave Helman: had to drop back and like I'll just say quickly too I think the best way to beat Jordan Love pressure wise is the interior because he's not a guy who wants to get outside of the pocket and make those necessarily he's a guy if the edges are caving in he'll just step up and do something ridiculous but if you're beating him through the through the interior it's like well that's a

1:06:08Robert Mays: pretty good way to speed him up next one here the atlanta falcons got shut out by the carolina panthers who at to this point in the season again had one of the worst defenses in the nfl through the first couple of weeks, Atlanta scores zero points against this Panthers team, which I can't remember who it was. I think it was John Ledyard, maybe on Twitter today was saying that the Saints could lose this game by 60 and it would still be more less embarrassing than getting shut out by the Panthers. And I truly believe that is correct. So the Atlanta Falcons, what the f*** this game

1:06:46Dave Helman: was, it felt really gross watching it in the moment, but watching it back, I think it was one of the most frustrating experiences I've had the entire time like this was I think if you are a Michael Penix not even skeptic but just like up in the air I don't know this was like the nightmare game in terms of 100 % was exactly that like if your fear was because I think on the bright side of the way that he gets the ball out and is willing to get to check downs it's like okay the offense can be efficient but if you lean a little bit too far into that you end up in a point where defenders know that it's coming and they're not scared of you down the field and I think when you add that on top of his general unwillingness to trigger on throws over the middle of the field it just you end up in this spot where you're only throwing quick and you're only throwing outside of the numbers and so far this season they haven't been successful down the field which I think part of the bargain with Michael Penix was that he could unlock that for you yes and he really hasn't so that's been frustrating like the pick six he throws is ugly for a lot of reasons but I think the ugly the reason it is so ugly to me is so the nickel Chow Smith Wade he's waiting on this check down.

1:07:50Dave Helman: And as soon as he sees Michael Pennick's turn, Chow Smith Wade drives on it and he, he knows that it's coming so early and drives on it so early that he actually almost overruns it. And so like that should never, ever be happening that a player and a defender knows a check down is coming so quickly. So just a very frustrating game. If you thought the offense was going to be

1:08:10Robert Mays: exciting this year, the more troubling part of that play to me is not the fact that it gets picked off when he's going to the check down. If you watch that play, they're on the backside of it. They're running like a dagger type concept where they have Ray McLeod running an in breaker with the number two receiver on that side clearing out. Ray McLeod is open on that play in an ocean of space. And Penix is coming across the field and sees it and still goes to the check down and it gets picked off and returned for a touchdown. When you watch that happen in real time, you're Like that is rough. And so I think that part of it, where he's getting to the check down so quick, that was a negative and a bunch of different plays in this game where they know what's happening and they're on it almost immediately.

1:08:54Robert Mays: But the other aspect of this is, when you say this is like the Panic's Nightmare game, there are two other things that really lead me to that. He has multiple misses on timing throws outside of the numbers, like outbreaking stuff where he's sailing it. And the other part of it is the perfect play to me that kind of illuminates this. The fourth and four they don't get late in the game. The first window on that play, Roseboom takes it away, okay? So it's a little, he's looking for like a little in-breaker coming over the middle. And Roseboom takes it away in the first window. And he, the Panthers did not get a lot of pressure on the Falcons in this game.

1:09:32Robert Mays: It's not like he was under duress the entire game. And that I think is really part of why it's so problematic that he's getting to these check downs so quickly. but on that play he has time to reset but and then he tries to bend it around the defender and he dirts it and so the three things we were worried about with Michael Penix were the accuracy stuff and I think really just the two things the accurate the some of the sprays and then the other part of it and we talked about this a lot he is not a creative player in the pocket if you make him reset he's gonna run into some issues and I think all of that was on display today.

1:10:09Robert Mays: And the thing that's usually a positive for him, his ability to get the checkdowns, it can be a negative in moments like this. And to me, I think that's exactly why what you said is right. This was Dave in a lot of ways, the Michael Panic's nightmare game.

1:10:20Derrik Klassen: To go back to the, I mean, the pick six, it's so brutal because pass up wide open player, it never even needed to get there. And then when the play is over, you're down by three scores. And like, much like what we were talking about with some of the like blowout, some of the other blowout games. I mean, yeah, they lose this game 30 to nothing. Like once that happens, I'm just like, all right, well, you're not digging your way out of this based on anything that I've seen today. And weird freaking game, man. Cause like you're looking, you're looking through it for some sort of through line, you know, where you're like, oh, why did Pinnock's play so poorly?

1:10:58Derrik Klassen: Like, was he pressured? Could he, did he not have time? Nope. Oh, was the Panthers offense just overwhelming? No, they don't, they didn't need to be. Was their defense just on the screws that much? Not really. Like, there were plays to be made. It's just, yeah, I think you call it a nightmare game because I think it was Penix's shortcomings more so than, like, somebody forcing him into that, it felt like. You know, it was just a meltdown.

1:11:24Dave Helman: I think the fundamental issue with what we've seen from Michael Penix, mostly in this game, but, like, through even some of the other parts of the season, he is, in the way that he is wired in plays, a chunk play to check down player. Yes. There's not a whole lot in between, but if you're not throwing the chunk plays,

1:11:39Robert Mays: it's exactly right.

1:11:40Dave Helman: What are we left with?

1:11:42Robert Mays: What are we doing? Exactly right. And you saw that throughout the game today. I mean, like there's so many different examples. First drive, second and eight. He has, uh, London in the flat against cover two airmails. Yep. Third and eight. And this is the, the other, the other issue here is that some, we sometimes get rid of the ball too quickly, especially against a team that does not have a very good pass rush. I know you're probably in the back of your mind, worried about the backup right tackle. This is not the game where you should be worried about the backup right tackle. First drive, third and eight.

1:12:07Robert Mays: He takes the one-on-one to Drake May against JC Horn, sails it over his head. He's got time to work through that. There are guys that are going to come open if he sits there in the pocket. And that just happened throughout the entire game. One of the most bizarre misses that he had, on their fourth drive late in the second quarter, they try, they're trying to manufacture these explosive plays. They try to throw a fake screen to Bijan. And Raymond McLeod is releasing up the left sideline. and McLeod like breaks it over the middle instead of taking it up the sideline. But even if he kept taking up the sideline, it was probably going to be a miss.

1:12:40Robert Mays: Like on so many different fronts, was this just a confusing, frustrating game for the entire Atlanta Falcons passing game?

1:12:48Derrik Klassen: It's also wild because, and they certainly, they weren't great in Minnesota, but like one week ago, they played a relatively like clean, unproblematic game against a much better defense on the road. Yeah, they moved the ball between the 20s. They just stalled out in the red zone, which happens sometimes. He didn't do anything. He didn't make any terrible decisions. He made a couple of nice throws. He kept things on schedule for the most part. So to see it all go out the window against what I think is inferior competition, it's just baffling.

1:13:21Robert Mays: Four of 16 in the intermediate part of the field today was Michael Penance. I'm surprised he threw that many. I'm surprised he did too. Four of 16. And again, it's a lot of those like out the lot of those like intermediate out routes, the things we're talking about here, the one part about, and I want to give the Panthers some credit here. I think that, you know, the defense, I think they did everything they needed to in this game, the way that they were sinking under some of those vertical routes and just not letting things get over the top of them and knowing that if we close on the checkdowns, it's a very good game plan for them defensively.

1:13:50Robert Mays: And then the other thing that jumped out to me, Ted Rowe McMillan is a problem. Like I am so excited to watch what he is going to develop into as a player. Like I don't, really know who he kind of reminds me of. Like there are elements with like what he can do on like these crossers after the catch of like, as a big player, it's like, there's a little Michael Pittman in there, but he's much smoother and more explosive after the catch than that. And he's, he's actually like a downfield contested player, like stylistically he is unique. And I guess I kind of knew that coming into the year, but the fact that he's made good on that player, that profile that he had coming into the league.

1:14:32Robert Mays: It's like, I'm incredibly impressed by it. And I don't really know exactly what to make of it at this point.

1:14:38Dave Helman: I might be forcing the comp here because Andy Dalton's on the roster, but there is an element of like, AJ Green was faster, but just a big man who is that smooth and finds the ball away from his body like that is so graceful in the air. Like AJ Green to me always embodied, like who is big man who moves like a ballerina? And like, there's some of that with Teddero and McMillan.

1:14:57Robert Mays: There wasn't as much like, like yak crossers and AJ Green's game. He was much more of a perimeter player. And even the ways that they're moving him around the formation to get him some of these after the catch opportunities. He is three dimensional. Like, you know, it's, he's very fun to watch again. Like the, one of the only guys, again, we talk about the smoothness in the way that they move. There's like a little elements, the way that he moves there kind of reminds me of like the way that JSN moves, but he's six, four. Like it just, It's really hard to put him in a box, and it's made him incredibly fun to watch over the first three weeks of the season.

1:15:31Robert Mays: Last one here in our WTF segment for week three, the New England Patriots somehow give this game away against the Pittsburgh Steelers. And listen, it wasn't an absolute one-sided affair for the Patriots to eventually lose this game, but they had a 48 % success rate today. The Steelers were at 41.1. Steelers average 4.1 yards per play on offense and end up winning the game. And this is driven by the fact that the Patriots turn the ball over five times and didn't just turn the ball over five times, but turn the ball over in some of the most maddening ways and maddening areas of the field you possibly can in a game like this.

1:16:11Robert Mays: New England Patriots. What the f***?

1:16:13Dave Helman: It started from the jump to like Ramondre Stevenson on the first drive of the game has a fumble. later in the game he fumbles on the goal line which was only one of their two goal line turnovers because right before the half Drake man's up throwing an interception that I think Cam Hayward gets his hands on and then a different Steelers defender is able to pick off Drake may has a fumble of his own on a strip sack like they just could not stop giving the ball I think I posted at some point on Blue Sky like if you just watched every all of the plays that the Steelers had up until the Patriots, all of their plays, all of their drives up until the turnover play, you'll be like, man, they are moving the ball.

1:16:55Dave Helman: They're one of the most efficient offenses in the league this week. And like their, their down to down success was really good. Drake May was doing a good job of getting the ball out. I think Drake May only had one in completion in the whole second half and they lost this game. They converted on multiple fourth downs, like on like a speed option. They had a different one to Ramondre Stevenson that they completed. Like they just, in so many ways, the Patriots were the better team in this game. And it's just, you know, when you commit five turnovers, it's hard to get it over the line. I can just imagine Mike Tomlin having some sort of witticism after this game about like,

1:17:31Derrik Klassen: that's why the field is a hundred yards long, you know, like you can get all the way down to the one, but if you can't punch it in and you wind up in a situation like this, it was like, it's like watching it's like watching somebody try to walk across ice you know like just in regular shoes where you can make it like five to ten feet at a time and look fine doing it but all it takes is one little slip and you bust your ass and the Patriots did that time after time I'm wondering

1:17:59Robert Mays: I'm trying to think that pick that he throws in the end zone if that ball doesn't get tipped do you think it's it still gets intercepted I mean it might have but I don't I don't want to totally hand wave away. He was throwing it into coverage no matter what. It's a tough play because the way that the actual play design works, the play works, right? So they have pop Douglas go on a little like yo-yo motion where they have him sprinting to the right and he's supposed to pop back out and Jalen Ramsey, the Steelers pass that off in man coverage and Jalen Ramsey continues to fly the other direction.

1:18:34Robert Mays: But because pop Douglas gets caught up a little bit, getting back into the flat, Brandon Echols, who was supposed to be on, I believe, Keishan Booty on that play, doesn't stick with Pop Douglas and kind of hangs between them. And so him getting caught up, Douglas, leads to Echols being in that area. But when you're Drake May, you still have to understand that you can't make that throw without identifying where that player is. So even though it gets tipped and that leads to the interception in part, I also think there's a chance it would have been intercepted either way.

1:19:04Dave Helman: They also, they have a Pop Douglas issue, I think, a little bit. Like, that is a little bit harsh, but you have that play where he gets a little bit caught up there. There was a crossing route where he clearly flattens it off, where I'm not sure if that's what Drake may want. He throws it a little high, which was something that happened, I think, even earlier last year. I think specifically with Pop Douglas. So that's just like maybe a little bit of a communication issue with those two. And then the final play of the game. Yeah, it is. They throw to Pop Douglas. He's like maybe a yard short of the sticks, a half yard short.

1:19:35Dave Helman: and if he had just immediately foot in the ground, jumped towards the sticks, I don't know if he gets it. Like, Steelers' defender is driving on him. I kind of don't think he gets it anyway, but, like, don't make it easier.

1:19:45Derrik Klassen: Yeah, that's the thing.

1:19:47Robert Mays: I think there's a chance he gets it.

1:19:49Derrik Klassen: You've got to at least not make it easier on the defense.

1:19:51Dave Helman: Yes, you have to at least fight for the sticks immediately, and if you don't get it, you don't get it, but the idea that you would catch that ball, like, a yard short of the sticks, if that, and then take a jump back trying to make a defender miss, It's just like, that's the type of thing that just really, really frustrates me.

1:20:09Robert Mays: And the Drake May interception, I think, is a play worth pointing out that I think that's a bad decision. And then the other one, his fumble is, that's a play that you just can't really make. Just keep the ball in your chest. What is he doing? That's a play that you just can't really make. I mean, that again is in plus territory. He's trying to come back to Henry on the seam ball. And he's open. But Cam Hayward is pushing the pocket just enough that he doesn't want to pull the trigger on it. And then instead of just dirting it or trying to get rid of it, he tries to make a play, he fumbles, and it just really speaks to overall the day that the Patriots were having.

1:20:42And there's at least like, I'm coping because I think he's a very good player.

1:20:47Dave Helman: There's, I think, a little bit of like this offensive line is still very bad. And I don't think this receiving group is still very bad. And he's a player where when he feels the pressure, his mode of operation is I got to go make some shit happen, which like that can lead to these plays where he's getting sacked a little bit of the puck and just doesn't hold on to the ball and he needs to learn better than that but I think just so long as this is the situation in New England

1:21:08Robert Mays: those are just going to be his growing pains okay when do the decision-making growing pains

1:21:13Dave Helman: stop becoming an issue when the team is like functional the team sucks

1:21:21Robert Mays: I understand that I understand that the running backs put the ball on the ground multiple times Yeah, I don't think you can hand wave away Drake May's role in the turnover problems. I'm not hand waving away necessarily. You kind of are a little bit.

1:21:35Dave Helman: I'm saying that you're just going to have to live with this because this is the way that he's going to try to make play. But how long do we have to live with this? You get all of the good because he plays this way. He's like 22 years old.

1:21:46Robert Mays: He's like, I'm not like he's going to be, I think he's going to be great. I'm not saying this is like an eternal problem. I asked you, how long do we have to live with this? What is your answer? I could do it for the rest of the year.

1:21:58Dave Helman: This team is not good. I think you don't have a choice. He's been one of the highest accessory quarterbacks in the league. He's been a very good scrambler. He's made a number of very good throws. I'm okay living with like, tried to make a play in a close game. This is,

1:22:11Derrik Klassen: this is exactly where we thought we'd be with the Patriots, where like all summer you're like, if they can just be functional, that was the whole goal of all of these additions. And then after three weeks, they're like, oh, they still kind of suck. Like they're still not, but I did like, There's enough here. I would hope you see some growth over the course of the year. There is enough. Functionality can be achieved with what they have, even if it's not good. Because there's a difference between functionality and... I just think down to down, he's been very good.

1:22:42Dave Helman: I'm mostly just trying to push your buttons here. I know you are. I also do realize I'm a little bit irrational in the way that I think he's good.

1:22:48Robert Mays: I'm trying to play devil's advocate a little bit, because I'm sure there are people who watch those moments and are going to be frustrated if we just say, like, ah, just kind of how it is with Drake May. Like, well, at a certain point, like as a quarterback, you can't, that just can't be how it is. Like in some ways, like I think Trevor Lawrence is a good example of this. Like George Love is like this. Trevor Lawrence today had like, and we didn't talk about it when we were discussing that game, had like four or five, six throws where I'm like, God, that's when he is at his best. Like just ripping deep curls to BTJ or corner routes on time.

1:23:15Robert Mays: And then he has the pick where Petrie sinks under that. But even if Petrie didn't sink under it, he probably would have thrown it to whoever the corner was. And it's just like, all right, like, in order to be one of those guys, the ratio has to be a lot better than it still is even with Trevor Lawrence. And so it's just, what is the timeline for that? And it might be a couple of years from now, but I think it's just at least worth bringing up that some decision-making in high leverage moments has been a problem for Drake May and was again today, even if this solely isn't his fault, considering everything else that was happening.

1:23:46Derrik Klassen: I think the answer to your question is year three, honestly.

1:23:49Robert Mays: That's probably right.

1:23:51Dave Helman: He's just, he's one of those quarterbacks.

1:23:52Robert Mays: Raising my hand

1:23:53Dave Helman: He's a quarterback Who's going to lose games Trying to win games A little bit too hard And I just I kind of like Watching those guys I don't know Trevor Drake

1:24:01Derrik Klassen: And Jordan Love Like it was a bad Sunday For Derek Klaus Those are all Derek Klaus And again I think they all have

1:24:06Robert Mays: Similar issues Every once in a while Alright Let's get to Some of the Our favorite moments From Sunday It is time for How could you not be Romantic about football

1:24:17Derrik Klassen: I mean this thing Was a thing of beauty

1:24:20Robert Mays: Each week We're just going to Pick out a couple moments That you know Now, this is why we do it. This is why we love it. And there were several moments today, David, from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that I think were accentuated by them wearing those cream school uniforms where this is the epitome of how can you not be romantic about football?

1:24:35Derrik Klassen: You know what I love about it, too? And let's like let's peel back the curtain. I have no problem admitting this. Like there's nine games on in an early window. We had a full TV on Houston, Jacksonville and a full TV on Philly, L.A. Like those are the headliners from noon. So they get a whole TV. We split the other ones up two or three games per screen. Tampa is in control of this game for the vast majority of the time. Like they look like the better team. And I think we even had a conversation at like halftime where we're like, ooh, Bucs seat at the table, like three and oh, and they look dominant.

1:25:09Derrik Klassen: We took them off the screen. We're like, all right, let's get this out of here and we'll get a bigger, you know, we'll put somebody who's playing a closer game on a bigger screen. And then when all the craziness happens, like when everything's going on with the blocked field goals and the Packers and the Browns, we click back over because some of the other games have are really bad. You know, like 30 nothing Carolina and the the Minnesota Cincinnati game. We're just like, all right, we don't need to see any more of this. What's going on in Tampa? Oh, shit. This this got interesting, fellas. And then it proceeded to go even more off the rails.

1:25:46Derrik Klassen: Like as soon as we get the TV back on Tampa jets is basically like watching Will McDonald wave goodbye to all the Buccaneer fans after they've blocked this touchdown after the most, the most bucks and Todd bull sequence ever, by the way, because like, it looks like Baker Mayfield seals this thing with a scramble. Then on fourth and one, it looks like they're going to go for it and just win the game up by six. Like, yes, Todd bulls be aggressive. No, we're going to take a delay a game. We're going to kick a field goal to go up nine. It's going to get blocked. And now we have to go down and score again to win this thing, a game that we should already be kneeling this out.

1:26:28Derrik Klassen: And now we're trailing the two-minute warning. And they do exactly that. And Baker Mayfield goes and makes an insane throw on a corner route to Emeka Ibuka to get him back in field goal range. Just everything about this sequence, like the Bucs having control, the Bucs losing control.

1:26:44Dave Helman: Aaron Glenn strut down the sideline after the touchdown. That was the happiest I was all Sunday, is seeing Aaron Glenn do that. And they didn't win the game, but Aaron Glenn just like strutting down the sideline when they won. It was just glorious.

1:26:56Derrik Klassen: And Baker missed a wide open touchdown on the snap before the insane throw to Ibuka, by the way. It's just so much fun stuff happening in the span of about five and a half minutes.

1:27:07Robert Mays: And that honestly might have been Ibuka's second best catch of the day. The one down the right sideline that he catches with one hand was even more ridiculous than the one that ends up setting up the game winner. And so I think just the sheer amount of attitude in a game involving Aaron Glenn and Baker Mayfield, how could you not be romantic about that? And then after the game, Baker comes out and was like, well, Steve Wilkes, the defensive coordinator, is the guy who cut me in Carolina. And so, yeah, there was a lot of personal stuff in this game. I'm really enjoying the Baker experience. It's hard not to at this point.

1:27:35Robert Mays: Every single week we get something great from Baker.

1:27:37Derrik Klassen: He's one of my favorite people in the NFL. I love his game. I love, like, this is a fun Tampa team. by the way they're they're 3-0 and their whole season has been like this like Ibuka wins it in the final minute in week one they score with six seconds on the clock against Houston on Monday and then it looks like they're gonna have a mundane win and it turns into anything but like this has just been the wackiest season and by the way they're still dealing with all that shit on their offensive line like this has just been an insane season and they're 3-0.

1:28:10Dave Helman: Baker has truly landed in the spot of like outside of whoever your team is that is the quarterback you probably want to watch the most like outside of you know the Josh Allen's the Lamar Jackson's they don't count but like outside of the transformers you want to turn on Baker Mayfield he's just fun to

1:28:24Robert Mays: watch somebody was fun to watch today the other moment that hard not to get romantic about it the Caleb Williams flea flicker touchdown I mean that is just there's there's something so pure about that moment the ridiculousness of the play overall it starts at the beginning the throw the the Toss from DeAndre Swift back to Caleb Williams, hangs in the air for... Almost longer than the throw, it feels like. I mean, it's just absolutely ridiculous. Like a volleyball. Caleb catches it and almost flat-footed, like takes a half step into it, 62 air yards in the air on that touchdown to Luther Burden.

1:28:59Robert Mays: Like everything about that play is why you love watching football on a Sunday. And I think there were plenty of other things to talk about with the Bears offense today. But that play specifically, it's like, That's why I wake up every Sunday morning.

1:29:11Dave Helman: And that was on a dot. It was a ridiculous threat. Luther Burden did not hold his stride. He did not have to adjust where he was running. He puts it on him. I think somebody had posted or tweeted it out. I forget where it was. But the ball was in the air for 2.93 seconds. To throw the ball 62 yards in just under three seconds is like, that is some of the most special arm talent that you can get.

1:29:36Derrik Klassen: I've known this since he was drafted, obviously. but doing this show in Chicago and living here now, it's romantic because like, you can just feel it all the more. I mean, we also, we do this show with three bears fans who are in the studio with us too. And like, you can just feel the psyche of Chicago. And like every, every Caleb moment is like that matrix gif where Morpheus is like, he's beginning to believe like every good Caleb play you can feel. And it's not just Robert. It's like you can feel the entire city of Chicago turning on whether it's good or bad. And that is it's definitely very romantic.

1:30:15Robert Mays: It's hard to say like what this means for the Bears offense moving forward, considering what the Cowboys defenses looked like so far this season. Like, I think you take all of this with like a boulder of salt, like the first touchdown to Roma Dunsway. Trevon Diggs just misses the jam. Roma Dunsway is wide open running up the left sideline. There's a screen to DeAndre Swift for 40 yards at one point in this game. The sequence to me that's like, okay, this is where I can start building some optimism here is the two-minute drive where he rips the ball to Odunze in the flat on time. He comes back to the deep in-breaker to Burden on that high low over the middle of the field, and then he rips the Komet touchdown.

1:30:53Robert Mays: I think that you really see him doing what he can to move through these plays on time. And I think that it's improving. like you see the progress you want to see just in terms of like where his eyes are going how quickly he's getting there I think he's becoming more confident in what he's seeing and so again it's against the Cowboys defense who knows how real any of this is but some of the stuff I saw today it's like this is what you want to see and I think he builds on what I thought was a pretty strong game from him against the Lions last week and so I come away from this feeling pretty good about the overall trajectory that we're seeing from him I mean it would be it would be easy to

1:31:29Derrik Klassen: make a flippant remark about Micah Parsons not being with the Cowboys anymore, but correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't this Caleb's first game without taking a sack ever in the NFL? Yes, in the NFL. And, and I guarantee you he's taken sacks against some bad pass rushes during that time because it's not all just about having a Micah Parsons. So the Cowboys defense is atrocious and y 'all can get into Giants chiefs on the next show, but like watching what the Giants looked like against a more adult defense made me think the Cowboys are even worse than I thought they were. And so I'm not going to take a ton from that.

1:32:07Derrik Klassen: But yeah, like even something as little as not taking a sack, even if it's against a lackluster pass rush, I do think that means something.

1:32:12Dave Helman: To me, it's just the confidence. That's the thing that stands out. Like he, I think last year, tried to progress through stuff and you could see some moments of good timing, but then he wouldn't actually make the throw. He would second guess it. But now he just, Ben Johnson, I think, is starting to get him to a spot where it's like, hey, dude, just throw it. It's going to be open. These players are good. Roma Dunzey's playing better. Just throw the ball. And he's starting to do it.

1:32:34Robert Mays: Yeah, those middle-of-the-field rips to the backside of stuff that we've seen over the last couple weeks, that's where the arm talent sticks out. His ability, how quickly he gets that ball out, how whip-like his arm is, the ability to throw that stuff on the backside of these progressions and still have access to those routes, if you can play on time enough, his arm will allow that stuff to happen. And so it's been encouraging to see that over the last couple of weeks. All right, before we get out of here, it's time to talk about what we learned in week three in the NFL.

1:33:04Derrik Klassen: You know, I think I've learned something today.

1:33:08Robert Mays: This is a pretty simple one. I think today we learned why the NFL is king. We posted a clip of it on our Athletic Football Show Twitter account on our Instagram, but we were all sitting in the office and Scott, you know one of our producers was filming us during that sequence with all the field goals at the end of the game and it's there's nothing like that like a witching hour like that Dave where you have multiple game-winning kicks getting lined up at the exact same time on multiple different screens like this is why that exact moment why the NFL is what it is and why we

1:33:41Derrik Klassen: love this so damn much and like I said at the top of the show even on a week where at halftime it did not look like we were headed for that. Like all of that drama manifested between midway through the third quarter and the end of the game. And every now and then you're going to have games that completely follow the script. I mean, Colts, Titans, obviously Seahawks, Saints in the late window. Like that, that stuff does happen. But by and large, you're not safe in this league. And I said it was a cliche earlier, but come correct. Or you wind up watching the Cleveland Browns celebrating for a game that they only led for the final snap.

1:34:19Derrik Klassen: I mean, it's awesome. And every week we see that, even when games look like they're lining up to be disappointing. That is rarely actually true.

1:34:27Dave Helman: And like getting the witching hour to line up like that is special in and of itself. That is very unique to football, the way that this thing is set up and the way that the schedule is set up. And then to be around for, again, I don't even know how you would check this, but to have two kicks blocked and returned for a touchdown within like six like real-time minutes of each other separately is like I don't know if that has ever happened and so to be able to just stick around and watch something like that like you just you really like any given Sunday is such like a cliche but you really just do not know what you're getting into when you open it it was fantastic and

1:35:02Robert Mays: that moment and with all the field goals at the all-in succession like that I mean that's one that'll stick with me for a very long time.

1:35:09Derrik Klassen: Which, and obviously the witching hour is the easy headliner, but if I did my math right, I think five games on Sunday came down to a kick at the end. I mean, Browns Packers, Eagles Rams, Jets Bucks, Chargers Broncos was a walk-off field goal, and then you had 49ers Cardinals too. I mean, a third of the week's games come down to the final snap. Yeah, that's why the NFL is king.

1:35:34Robert Mays: Doesn't get much better than that. quick heads up just for our programming moving forward here. I'm gonna try to do this on every Sunday night show just so people know what they're getting. The hangover tomorrow, we got Chiefs Giants, Commanders Raiders, Vikings Bengals. For you guys that are unfamiliar with that format, on our Monday into Tuesday show, we break down three games that we did not talk about on the Sunday night show. Most often that is going to include the Sunday night game because of the way that our Sunday schedule works. That is the case this week. So those are the three games we'll be talking about on the hangover.

1:36:05Robert Mays: We will also be taking your voicemails. Please check my social media for the voicemail number because I cannot remember it right now. If you had a tough night, if your team broke your heart and you need to talk through some of this, you're coping in a big way, just want some advice on how to work through whatever it is you're dealing with as an NFL fan right now, please give us a call and we will pick out a couple of those to hit on the hangover show this week. 847-448-0701. One more time, Bauer.

1:36:35Derrik Klassen: 847-448-0701. Let's hear those calls, Packers fans.

1:36:44Robert Mays: I'm not acknowledging Packers fans being in like a dark place after losing that game to the Browns. It's been too good over the first couple of weeks. If you're a Texans fan, there are plenty of fan bases out there who are taking a long look in the mirror right now. we want to hear from you and hopefully we'll be able to help you deal with whatever you're going through right now for now that is all we've got sincerely appreciate you guys listening we'll be back tomorrow