Week 4 Hangover: Bryce Young's big night, the Chargers season gets worse, and the Giants move into first place

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1:28Robert Mays: Welcome to the Athletic Football Show, brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. Today, it's the Week 4 Hangover. Me and Derek broke down three games from last night that we did not have a chance to dig into on the Week 4 recap. Talked about Panthers-Lions and just a really impressive performance from Bryce Young in the Panthers offense. Dug into the Chargers-Seahawks game. Whatever the opposite of the Panthers' offensive performance was, that's how I felt about the way that the Chargers offense played in this game. and then rounded things out, digging into Cardinals-Giants.

2:01Robert Mays: Those three games today on The Hangover with me and Derek. Let's get to them right now.

2:15Robert Mays: It's the week four Hangover, three games that we're getting to today. We are going to chat a little bit about Chargers-Seahawks later, which, man, excited for that conversation. They're also going to dig into Giants, Cardinals. But we're going to start things off with the Sunday night football game. Hit on it a little bit at the beginning of the Sunday night show last night, which we'll do every week. We will probably, in passing, mention what happened on Sunday night before digging into it in earnest. We really like to be able to revisit and talk about that game with some actual focus. And so that's often why we save it for the Monday hangover.

2:46Robert Mays: And this is a game that was worth focusing on. What an exciting outing from the Carolina Panthers and their offense. Derek, let's just start there. What were your impressions of Bryce Young in this game? Okay, I will give Bryce Young his flowers, I promise. I was so impressed with Brad Idzik in the way that they called it. We can talk about that. Holistically, so much of it was incredibly impressive. And so I just, and I think actually why I want to kind of frame it that way is that I think it was a tale of two halves in a way. I thought the first half, like Bryce Young was like fine. And I thought a lot of way that they were moving the ball in the first half was they were RPOing them to death.

3:25They were finding a lot of these crossers that they really wanted. Like they ran, especially in the first half, like one of the on one of their first plays with about 10 minutes in the first quarter, they hit an RPO into the flat with about four minutes left. They like motion a guy from left to right and run that like spot wheel concept. But they also get the tight end out in the flat. They throw that to him. They go back to that same concept in the second quarter and they hit Ted Rowe and McMillan on like the little spot slant. they were able to do that they had a third down conversion later in the game where they threw like an RPO bubble there was another one late in the first quarter where they hit Teddero and McMillan on a stick on an RPO bubble like it felt very college and I think that they were doing a good job of finding all the holes in the defense that way and then in the second half I think is where you actually saw a lot of the Bryce Young like standing in there under pressure getting to his third read you know deep in the play being able to make those throws it really was like a you kind of got all of what you would have wanted from the offense in the two different halves I felt

4:22Robert Mays: I understand what you're saying I think my takeaway from the game and my takeaway from what Bryce Young's season has looked like up to this point is that I think he's been a really impressive problem solver I think that has manifested in a bunch of different ways I think he's done some of that on his own we've talked about that and there were several moments in this game where it came up where he the little even the little flippy added Shuba on their second drive He finds space in the pocket in order to do that. On the third drive, he slides to his right just a little bit against the blitz and hits Tedderall McMillan on third and nine for 26 yards.

4:57Robert Mays: A little flip to Mechie on fourth and four on that exact same drive. He's finding just enough space against a pressure as McNeil is kind of condensing the pocket. And that has really stuck out to me this entire season. It's just his ability to, within the pocket, even as things are a little bit muddy, either finding a little bit of space to throw, finding a little bit of space to extend. And I think he's done such a good job of that, of solving problems on his own in a lot of ways this season. But by leaning into the RPOs, you allow him to be a problem solver in a different way. You're giving him a tool to do it.

5:28Robert Mays: And so even if they were really leaning on that in the first half, he's good at that. Like you should lean on that and you should have it as a tool in your box if you're building this Panthers offense because of who your quarterback is. So I'm with you. I think the second half to me was more impressive just in terms of the big boy NFL quarterbacking things that he was doing. But for this offense and this quarterback specifically, you should have that as something you can lean on consistently because that's a strength of his game. Yeah, that was not a criticism at all. He's it's what he was really good at in college is being able being right with that stuff.

6:01The ball comes out really fast from his hand, like his release has always been really quick. And now I think what we're seeing from him, and this is a big criticism I had with him even coming out, but obviously earlier in his career. his ability to like find a way to throw around people was always going to be the biggest hurdle for him in the NFL. And I think for large parts of his career, you just didn't see that. And I think even against the Browns, you struggled to see a lot of that. But I think this game, you saw a lot more of that. And if that is something that he can do more consistently, that's how you start to get over a lot of the other issues that I've had with him.

6:32And so I did think his ability to do that in this game was impressive. The third and nine that you mentioned where he rips that one over the middle, like that was a really good, The subtle movement was really good. I also, I don't know where Derek Barnes was going in terms of his hook presence. I thought that was like, he's like coming back downhill when there's nobody there because the back is in protection. I thought that that was crazy. And then he had a couple of throws like that in the second half where I thought he was willing to stand in. Like the touchdown he throws to Teddero and McMillan against cover zero.

7:01There's going to be a guy who's about to hit him. The safety is coming free a little bit late and he's able to make that throw. He had a couple of other throws. I another one too where I actually was really impressed with his ability to just stand in the pocket it was definitely in the second the second half they were backed up in their own red zone and it's a pure under center drop back play and they have like stick to the left hand side and from the right hand side you have the wrap route coming from behind and he gets like a little bit in his face and like somebody who's like about to cover the stick so he's like I'm not going to throw it he comes back side and he rips the wrap route and I'm like okay that is the throw you need to be able to make if I'm going to sit here and say like, oh, he can't do all this stuff.

7:41And so if we can build on more throws like that and more plays like that, that is where you start to get me to believe in this thing.

7:49Robert Mays: So that drive, they're up 22 to 19 is the play you're talking about happens on that drive. That drive from him, it legitimately might be one of my favorite drives a quarterback has had in the NFL this season. He hits that throw going backside on a straight under center drop back on second and eight they're running play action he fits an inbreaker over the linebackers to bryson tremaine and like a really tight window it's a really really good throw and then the lions run a simulated i think on the next play with dj wanham dropping off the line of scrimmage and that ball is out of bryce's hand immediately up the seam to mechie right past wanham's ear for like a big gain right after that and they go down and score a touchdown like that sequence of plays as I'm watching that happen I'm like all right what else do I want to see from this guy if he's gonna play like this if we're talking about all the things that are allowing him to find a path because he's finding windows and ways to throw around people he's accessing areas of the field that even bigger quarterbacks that should theoretically be able to do it more often and more consistently aren't able to access some of the aggressive throws that he's making the ambitious throws that he's making like that drive in particular like that just made me sit up straight in my seat I watch him do that and I'm just not sure other than watching him do it again and watching him do it consistently and just having this be kind of the status quo for how he plays I don't need to see anything more than what I saw on that drive I just think I need to see it more often for us to believe that this is just here to stay but I'm getting to a place where I'm kind of willing to believe that it might be.

9:30That's what it's in terms of like the beats of it and what he's actually doing, the throws that he's making. It's that game. I think for me now, it's can you do it against not the worst defense in the league? And can you do it over the course of like five, six weeks? Can you kind of sustain this over the course of the season? Because I think, and I do believe that part of this is absolutely real, but we see all the time that for the first eight weeks of the season, some quarterback, some offense is absolutely on fire. But I do think with him specifically, because it's been, incremental growth year over year, and this does feel like he's kind of crescendoing in what is now year three of this offense.

10:04It's as well put together as it's ever been, even though I know they were banged up, obviously, this game without Coker. I can start to believe it. And so this is, for me, I do want to see it more often. Like, I think I'm not willing to change 40 games of opinion off of four, but I think if this is something we sustain like through the holidays and he really gets, brings this team to the playoffs playing like this, yeah, sure, why not? I understand that. I think I don't want to be a prisoner of the moment.

10:31Robert Mays: I think I'm more willing to not forget the 40 games, but come off of what I believed over those 40 games, because this has been really three of the four games that they've played. I thought he's played really, really well. And in the game where the offense didn't play very well against the Browns, they had a 50 % pressure rate. Like it's really hard to play quarterback period when the offensive line was playing the way that it did against Cleveland last week. And so I going back and looking at the last two years of Bryce Young conversations, I was really excited by the way he played at the end of the 2024 season.

11:04Robert Mays: I really wanted to believe in that. And then last year, it just didn't really feel like he took a demonstrable step based on what we saw in the back half of that second season. And so there was part of me that gave up is the right way to frame it. But I lost some faith. I was like, maybe this is just who he is. And maybe this just isn't going to happen for him. And that's kind of where I landed with it. At no point did I want that to be true. Like the idea that I'm some Bryce Young hater is hilarious. Like I think Bryce Young being awesome rules. I think a guy like this in the NFL playing like this would be fantastic.

11:38Robert Mays: And so if this is just who he is, I couldn't be happier to have been wrong about thinking that we'd kind of reached a dead end with him because that's kind of where I was with it coming into this season. And then the way he's played over the first four games, I think that I probably I wasn't right about that. Like I we had not reached a dead end with him. He has played significantly better over these four games than I think we have ever seen him play. He's seventh in the NFL and EPA per drop back. And that's earned like with the way that he is playing. He has a huge hand in why that has been the case for Carolina.

12:09And I think that's where I'm at. Like he is definitely better than he was last year. I think for me, it's a matter of like how much of him being seventh in EPA per dropback or whatever it is, how much of that is real? Like how like what is the like, is that something he can sustain or does he fall more closer to 14th by the end of the season? Which, to be clear, would still be a massive. That's a massive win, given where he was 18 months ago. And so, again, I think I still have reservations about like what really is the ceiling with him. And again, I think I want to see this sustained over a little bit longer of a period of time.

12:42I will say, though, I kind of love the way that the offense is built and like what they're trying to do with him, because he's not. At least now, he's not scared to make throws, I think, very early on in his career when he was trying to figure out how to be a smaller quarterback and stuff. You saw him take the foot off the gas in moments like that. But you really did see, I think even last year when he was struggling, he's willing to throw down the field. Like, obviously, we all remember the Rams game, but they were doing that at times, you know, in plenty of other games. And so the fact that he's willing to make those throws to gargantuan pass catchers at every single level, I mean, like all of their guys are truly like 6 '3", 6 '4".

13:21I do think it actually makes for like a pretty interesting offense to watch.

13:25Robert Mays: I agree. And I think coming into the year, we were curious what the Idzig impact would be going from Canales to Idzig calling plays. What would that look like? And I think that Idzig's feel for situational stuff and just the structure of the offense. it's a unique offense like there's this combination of them being willing to live in an under center condensed world at times so then they're living in this like a spread out rpo world and that was one of my questions for people there in the summer when i was asking about what they wanted the offense to be it felt like there were kind of count there were ideas that were disparate enough that how do you make this like a cohesive vision because you're living in kind of these separate different worlds.

14:06Robert Mays: And I think they've done a really good job, like a really admirable job of tying all of it together, even if a lot of that stuff is hard to tie together. And I think they've done it in a bunch of different ways. Like the RPOs help do that. And they have guys that are on their staff that were from college. And, you know, they're, they're a little tiny tools that they use within the offense where it's like, or we're going to do stuff that is rooted in like NFL ideas and NFL concepts, but we're just going to be able to account for one guy on the backside of things with some of these RPOs. and that that always sounds great in principle like when you're trying to do all these different things at the same time the word they used is we could be diluted if we try to do that too often and when you watch this thing it doesn't feel diluted at all like it feels very potent considering how many different things they're trying to be at the same time it is really impressive how like they are trying to do so many different things and it never just feels like they're just grab bagging plays because sometimes you get offenses like this where it's just like Like the Brian Dable, like Titans offense feels like that.

15:06I mean, a lot of his offenses tend to feel this way, but like that style of thing where it's hard to figure out what is supposed to be tied together. I, again, I feel like they have done a good job. And I think usually what happens there is when you get these offenses that do feel a little bit more grab baggy, like honestly, Todd Malkin's offense is like this. The reason it works is they figure out what are you not good at right now? What are you struggling at? What can we pick on in defense? It's not just like grab bags of stuff that they like. It's grab bags of stuff that you don't want to see.

15:36And I do think that Idzik, especially in this game, did a really, really impressive job of that.

15:41Robert Mays: It's funny that you frame it as stuff you like because that was one of the other things that came up this summer is that I asked them, like, what do you want to see from Bryce in year three? And one of the things that came up is just the idea of, all right, it's year three in the offense. We want him to really take ownership of the offense. and that wasn't meant as a slight to him in any way. I think it's more just a commentary on when they got there to Carolina, he got benched, right? I think that there was a real humility to him early in his career and he's just that sort of person. Like he's just kind of wired that way.

16:16Robert Mays: And I think the hope this year was, okay, we want you to be really vocal on what you want the offense to feel like. And one of the stories that they told me was the day before I got there, two days before I got there, It was the first stop that I made in my training camp tour this year. And they were talking about how the day before in practice, there had been some issues with a couple of routes and a couple of details. And after practice, Bryce had said something about, like, I just didn't really like how this went. And they encouraged him, like, well, why don't you get in front of the offense and say that?

16:44Robert Mays: Why don't you talk about why you didn't like just the way the practice went yesterday? And it's not necessarily something that he would do on his own, not because he's not willing to, but again, it's just not really how he's wired. And so I think their charge to him this year was like, we want to hear from you more about how this can be your vision of the way that we want to play. We want you to put your stamp on everything we're doing in a really emphatic way. And that sounds really good in the spring, but then, or it's in the spring and the summer. But then when you watch the way that they're playing right now, doesn't this feel like a quarterback who really believes in pretty much everything that's happening and everything they're doing?

17:20Robert Mays: Because when I watch him right now, he's playing with such conviction that that's what it says to me. Well, he's playing faster because, again, one of my biggest criticisms last year was that if you're going to be a little bit physically limited or a lot of physically limited, I think, especially in his case, you got to go, man. Like, we've got to believe in these throws. We have to get them out fast. And I highlighted that specifically in the quick game last week. But I think you are seeing it in a lot of other parts of the game. Like some of the throws that he made under pressure in this game are like, if he hesitates another quarter second, that window is not going to be there or he's going to get hit by the time the ball comes out.

17:54And I think there were too many of those plays last year where I think for sometimes bigger quarterbacks, they are still willing to withstand those hits or they have enough arm to where they can be, you know, fit that throw in there regardless. And he didn't. And so the fact that we're seeing a little bit more on the other end where he actually is starting to just play faster and believe it and shit, if you're wrong, you're wrong. You throw an interception every now and then. It's going to be what it's going to be. And I think the fact that he's a little bit more willing to play that way, you're seeing it.

18:19And so, again, I think I want to see it against not the Detroit Lions, but we are definitely tracking on the right path.

18:26Robert Mays: A couple of numbers I'll throw out that kind of speak to what we're saying here. Eight yards per attempt on a 2.67 time to throw for Bryce Young in this game. You felt that. He's playing fast, but he's not living underneath. He's pushing the ball down the field while playing fast. Nine of 11 for 95 yards against the Blitz per next gen. which he's been really good when they've sent extra bodies at him because he's been willing to attack those voids very quickly. So again, overall, just across the board, incredibly impressed by the way that he played. It helps when you have that guy that you're throwing the ball to.

18:59Robert Mays: That's also part of this. And they kind of have two of them, and one of them just didn't get to play in this game. That's the other part of it, and that's the other thing that I think Idzig deserves a lot of credit for is that even if T-Mac did play, and he was obviously phenomenal, And just the entire passing game was built around him for the most part. And he affected the game pretty much at every single level. It's like, all right, we're going to give you a little like yak RPO, yak RPO opportunities. We're going to throw like deep hinge routes to you, which Bryce is going to get back to on the backside.

19:29Robert Mays: You're going to catch those slot fades for a touchdown, like all the work he's doing inside. And they truly just a spectacular performance. But when you look at the offense overall, they're banged up, man. I mean, like Monroe Freeling gets hurt in this game. They were already banged up at tackle coming into the year with Moten not playing. Coker's not playing in this game. Like, I just think that they're playing this game. And Damian Lewis didn't play in this game. That's right. They had a backup left guard in this game. You saw that one play where Bullock kind of got bullied by Lee McNeil. But overall, the idea that now two years in a row, really, this offense has been able to sustain, despite some moving pieces along the offensive line, just incredibly impressive stuff across the board.

20:07Robert Mays: I know it's the Lions defense. I know there's context associated with that, but I just, it really stood out to me, like the way that they played and how this game was called and what the offenses felt like over the first four weeks. Anything else about the Panthers offense that you want to hit? We talked about mostly in broad strokes, but it did hit some of the specific moments that really jumped out. No, I think that was mostly it for what I had from their offense. I think all the other things I would probably say about this are just like, what the hell are the lines doing on defense? But their secondary is not the team that they want it to be.

20:37and I think that that just kind of is what it is. Like at a certain point, it's not worth harping on. These are mostly not players they wanted out there to begin with.

20:44Robert Mays: Yeah, and I think that part of it is also when you look at the numbers from this year, they feel like a defense that is grasping at straws when they're trying to find answers. They played 20 % man last night. They have played four of their lowest man coverage rates in the past three seasons in their first four games this year, four of their eight lowest man coverage single game rates over the last three years. they've given up a 50 % success rate in zone coverage in those three in three of those games at least a 50 % success rate and they've been even worse playing man I don't suggest that this this team with the current state of their secondary should be playing man coverage but when you've lived that way for such a long time and now you're trying to not live that way because you can't this just feels like a defense that's scrambling for answers and can't find them and I think you saw that obviously you see that in the secondary I just don't think the linebackers are playing very well right now.

21:35Like you're having Derek Barnes cover more than he's probably used to. I think Jack Campbell doesn't look as clean as he used to. Their third linebacker situation is not good. Like that's the other thing too. They can't even get into base because I don't think their third linebacker situation is very good. Like they're just, they're in a very difficult position right now with how they have to call the defense. I mean, there was a play. One of the fourth downs, I think that the Panthers convert in the fourth quarter. Jalen Mills is covering, I think, Mitchell Evans or something. Jalen Mills in 2026.

22:02That's where the Lions are at in their secondary.

22:05Robert Mays: on the other side of the ball it was kind of a strange game from the lions overall the lions were in the shotgun on 74 of their offensive snaps in this game did you notice this it was kind of bizarre it was kind of bizarre part i i continue to wonder their their run game is fascinating to me because it's the opposite problem that they had last year last year they were super explosive and they could not win down to down this year down to down they're not bad like they're actually one of the better teams in the NFL because I think it's a little bit more runs that are trying to keep them on track some of that is from the gun that's kind of what a lot of gun runs are they're not explosive they are not getting these 20 yard pops I think they only have one this entire season which is like antithetical to the entire point of having Jameer Gibbs in their offense and so I think they used to run the offense where we're going to kind of just eat shit a little bit in the run game and just like pound ahead pound ahead pound ahead under center it's going to allow us to be the offense that we want as like a shot as a under center play action team this game they clearly got away from it I think sometimes this has happened to Jared Goff and the Lions before teams where they feel like some of the pressure stuff is going to get to them they will get in the gun and just hope that Jared Goff can sort it out like I remember they tried to do this against the Bucks I think it was last year and had kind of a weird game for that reason so some of these games where you can force them out of it.

23:27The offense gets very herky-jerky. And I do think that one, Goff felt to me a little bit more finicky and frantic than I think he normally does. And I think that's partly because of what you're talking about there in more gun dropback stuff. But I also just thought execution errors for a lot of other players, like Jameson Williams had a number of really tough moments in this game. I thought like, obviously he gator arms the go ball down the right sideline, but then there's a dig that Jared Goff puts on him after he has to bail from pressure a little bit that he can go up and get, he gets two hands on it and he just doesn't come down with it.

23:56And so it's, Jameer Gibbs has the drop in the seam, like on the little angle route, which Jared Goff is a little late there, but you expect a player like Jameer Gibbs to be able to hold onto it. Like just a lot of execution type stuff like that when they're having to live in a, when they were living in a shotgun world that they don't normally live in.

24:14Robert Mays: Yeah, it was just kind of strange. I mean, Goff, 90 % of his pass attempts in this game came out of the shotgun. I just can't imagine that's how this team wants to live, even if you're a little bit concerned about some of the pressure stuff. And to the Panthers' credit, some of the pressure stuff did affect this game. They got free runners on multiple simulated pressures where they had somebody free coming off the right side because Penesul was squeezing down while the Lions had enough guys in protection to handle some of that stuff. And so there were a handful, probably three or four moments in this game where something the Panthers were trying to do pressure-wise did affect the play.

24:47Robert Mays: But I'm just not sure that the Panthers are a pressure-heavy enough team for you to go completely against type in a game like this and for it to lead to the offense feeling herky-jerky in the way that you're talking about. It did feel bizarre. Like I, especially too, because the game, sometimes teams that want to be under center and live under center, they get out of it early because they randomly go down like 13-0 off the bat. And it's like this game in the first half was not really out of control for them. It was a relatively like the first half of the game was not that crazy. it really wasn't until the second half again that you really saw Carolina really start to run away with things or at least towards like the two minute warning and stuff like that and so the fact that they got out of it so early I also thought early on you saw them trying a bunch of those like pull protections where you're having the guard come all the way over and like none of those plays really felt like they were connecting for them it just kind of felt like after the first couple of drives they were struggling to figure out what they thought was going to work against this Carolina Panthers defense and that amounted to them just like asking Jared Goff, who is a pretty good quarterback, to throw to a handful of pretty good pass catchers and hope that they can make enough plays.

25:54And I actually thought they schemed some of that stuff up well. Like, again, I thought that there were throws to be made over the middle of the field. And some of those are, you know, Goff missing Amon Ross St. Brown in the red zone on a little bit of a seam route because he feels pressure or the Jameson Williams drop that I mentioned. Like, it was all these little bits of execution errors. And it was kind of a weird blend of, I don't think they should be living in a shotgun drop back world the way that they were. but it was schemed up well enough that they should have made enough of those throws in

26:20Robert Mays: place if they really wanted to it just kind of feels like this might be where we live with the lions this year where the offense for the most part is still very good and again they weren't great last night they had a 33 rushing success rate they have 46 yards on 15 carries and their run game has been inconsistent for a good chunk of this year again and if the offense is going to have three-ish drives a game where they come up empty and it's going to be imperfect but the defense is going to feel like this that might be enough for them to lose some of these games and that's just an incredibly tough world to live in is an offense where unless you're scoring just at will throughout all like throughout these entire games there's probably going to be you're probably going to leave the door open a crack for the other team and that's just a really tough place to be and it kind of feels like the lions are in that place yeah it which is i think the issues are different from last year, but that's kind of what it was last year.

27:13Well, like they're still a top 10 offense. It's just you have some of these like creakier issues. And again, I think it's it's funny that last year it was like they could still be very explosive and then down to down. They just weren't as good this year. It almost at times has felt a little bit of the opposite. And I think especially in this game, it felt that way.

27:29Robert Mays: All right, let's get to our next game here. But first, we're going to take a quick break. Football season has arrived. And with the U.S. Bank's Smartly Visa signature card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase, including at the stadium or at home watching on a brand new TV. Score big with unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase. Visit usbank.com slash smartlycard to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA Inc. Some restrictions may apply. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just$23 per session.

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30:19Robert Mays: Seahawks, Chargers. Seahawks beat the Chargers to 30-23. Not an indication of the way the game went. Just going to throw that out there right now. And that's not because the Seahawks were particularly good in this game. I don't think the Seahawks, especially their offense, was particularly good in this game. But the Chargers, for about 95 % of this thing, were unwatchable. They were terrible. They did not do anything. I mean, the first play of the game, they tried to run play-action sale to the right-hand side, and Justin Herbert just throws it at... This is truly one of those plays. Three different people could have picked that off.

30:56Drake Thomas is the linebacker to that side where he like takes one step to bite on play action, which is not very convincing. And he shoots back up to get under it. And then you also see the corner who's like running with the vertical on the outside. He falls off to go and pick off that stale route. So somebody was getting hands on it almost regardless. He did that a little bit later in the game where they're trying to run dagger and he just throws the dig straight at Ernest Jones. And so you have a number of those plays from him. And then just like execution errors and drops from other people like Keaton Mitchell had drops in this game.

31:24I thought some of the play calling was also bizarre. Like there was a play, there was a sequence later in the game where they're like in the red zone. Justin Herbert makes one of his great plays of the game where Leonard Williams is dragging him down on a fourth and four. He rips this ball to Gadsden. He catches it. And the next play, they call like a Trey Harris reverse pass. Like what? There were just so many bizarre moments like that from this team, from every player. And then you obviously have like Rashawn Slater goes down. It was a nightmare scenario game for the offense again.

31:58Robert Mays: The two Herbert interceptions are two of the worst plays he's ever made in the NFL. They're inexcusable, which is like the interception last week where I was like, that's the dumbest interception he's thrown where he just throws it at the post safety, who was never going to be anywhere else other than where he was. It's the same thing as those two linebackers. They were never going to be anywhere else but where they were. Inexplicable choices on both of them, and he deserves plenty of culpability in the way that this thing has looked over the first month of the season. But it's just unworkable.

32:28Robert Mays: Like when you watch what they look like down to down, I mean, there's just really no getting past some of this stuff. You mentioned the play calling. That sequence where they ran the reverse pass after the first down was hilarious. I just can't even imagine doing that at any point in the game when you look like how you've looked offensively this season. I get maybe it gives you a jump start, but like, let's just throw that shit in the garbage. Like let this just actually play. And the other one in this game that I just couldn't believe happened. So the game is close, right? It's late in the first quarter.

32:59Robert Mays: And they actually have two really positive runs in a row. They're just getting in some two back stuff. And there's like, we're just going to run the ball downhill. They get, I think it was Vidal went for nine yards when they were in jumbo without Gingold. Next play, they run like a little counter wine back with the full back on the field. They get 15 to a Marion Hampton. So we're moving, right? things are moving moving down the field building some momentum they immediately run a reverse to quentin johnson that goes for negative four yards yep and that was the other sequence where i was like the play calling i just don't understand it and maybe that's one of those plays like it works out and you're like oh he's a genius but like i i don't i don't think that they have enough like horizontal stretch and threat in this offense for you to give a shit if they're gonna run a reverse like that and what's funny is like i actually think their downhill run game stuff this season has had some nice moments and like you literally just saw proof of concept of it on that drive just be that just be that because it's been it's gotten better over the course of the year like just be that you look at the so those are some of the moments that were frustrating just in terms of the play calling the sequencing just how what they were the stuff that they were trying to do Overall, just the circumstances the offense was trying to operate in were completely untenable.

34:15Robert Mays: The Seahawks had 12 quick pressures in this game. As soon as you get up over 10 and you get to a dozen, it's just a sign of an offense that's not functioning. You just can't function offensively when that's happening over the course of the game. Leonard Williams, Demarcus Lawrence, and Nicky Manwari all had at least four pressures in this game. each one of them had a time to pressure of 2.68 seconds or less that's insane four pressures each and like some of these there's nothing you do about that and because like some of them are just like yeah these are great players they just instantly beat a rookie guard like whatever it's going to be but there were a handful of like completely unblocked like there was one early on in the second quarter it's a third and four they're under center they slide left to the three technique in the edge but there's no other like pass rush bodies there but they're sliding that way because it's Leonard Williams and you're scared of him there are two other potential blitz threats and the two down linemen to the right side and they just let him go and the back has to take two for one because both guys come obviously he can't get him and I think Herbert gets hit and it's incomplete and then what the Seahawks were doing a number of times in this game was getting Iman Wari like on the edge but but the way that the the Chargers were then calling their protections was like they were treating him like an edge player and not like a stand-up, you know, body like a linebacker or whatever.

35:40And they weren't just letting the back go. Like, in my opinion, if you have these situations where Emanwari is on the edge and you have a lot more pass rush threats to the other side, because there was one where they had four to the opposite side of Emanwari. Let's just full slide this thing and let the back take him. And is the back probably going to lose to Emanwari? Sure. But I would, I think I would rather live that way and try to throw hot than wasting Rashawn Slater trying to pick up a safety. Like I just, the way that they were handling some of that stuff and obviously credit to the seahawks like using him in that way is so creative and fun but i just thought that like the chargers did not have an answer for any of that

36:13Robert Mays: kind of stuff yeah the offense was an absolute mess and they score points to get back into this thing when you look at how that actually happened on a couple of those drives the seahawks had four personal fouls on the chargers two scoring drives in the second half when they they clawed their way back into the game four they had two each on two of the drives the the chargers did not really earn those points for very much of that game and also that's also a situation too where like not that the seahawks guys are like giving up or taking the foot off the gas or whatever but when they're up three scores knowing who they are it's like this is probably not as serious for them and then yeah of course you get a little bit sloppy with the penalties like the score makes this game look a lot closer than it ever was, which is funny because we look back at games at the end of the year and we're like, oh, it's a one score game.

37:02Like, you know, it's a coin flip, blah, blah, blah. And sometimes you have these games where it's like that was never even sort of in contention, really.

37:10Robert Mays: Yeah, the Seahawks had a 56 % pressure rate in this game and the Chargers had a 36.5 % drop back success rate. And you felt that over the course of the game. Their numbers running the ball were actually okay. Some of that is lifted by the fact that they had a number of efficient runs in a row in the second half when the game was already out of reach. But again, anecdotally, they were running the ball. It was very feast or famine in the first half is what I would say. There were a lot of negative runs early in series where you're putting yourself in second and 10 and then those sets of downs are just getting away from you.

37:42Robert Mays: But they also had a couple moments where they were running the ball decently well. That's it. It's like truly the only positive to be found about the way that the Chargers offense played in the first half of this game. and I don't, this is over. Like, there's no way for them to claw their way back into this thing over the course of the season. And so we don't have to have the conversations now, but there are going to be some tough conversations that have to happen. I don't know what you do at this point if you're the Chargers. Well, and again, because like Slater gets hurt. I think that there are a couple of other issues on the offense.

38:13Like, the last thing I want to bring up, Ladd McConkie is just like not the player that they want him to be. Like, straight up. He like he had there was a critical stretch in this game late in the first quarter. It's third and 12, I think. And they run him on that like deep kind of sit like at 10 yards where if it gets completed, I don't know if he turns and gets to the sticks and converts it. But you get a fourth and two on like the Seattle 36. You probably go for that or you are at least in like good position if you really want to do that. He drops that doesn't get it. And that led me to kind of just like the feeling of like he's just not been, I think, the player that they want him to.

38:45And I went and looked this up and I think that we knew that this would probably be the case. When this team is in 21, 22, or 12 personnel, he is third on the team in wide receiver snaps. It's either Quinton Johnson or it's Trey Harris. And neither of those guys are superstars that should keep a player like Ladd McConkie off the field if he is supposed to be that guy. But it feels very similar to the conversations that we've had about like Josh Downs with the Colts, where it's like he's pretty good at certain things, but he's kind of limited in the way that you're allowed to deploy him. And even then, Josh Downs is like a much better player right now today than I think that Ladd McConkie has been for this offense.

39:19And so I think it's just been really the fact that he's not been what you want. Quinton Johnson, I don't think, has taken a step from what we thought was like a kind of promising 2025 season. And then every sort of promise you could have maybe convinced yourself about the offensive line is not even sort of there. And now Slater's hurt again. Hampton, too.

39:37Robert Mays: And Hampton. The idea that Hampton was going to take some step forward, like every single fantasy that people had about this offense. I didn't even use that word on purpose, but it was a lot of, you know, I think a lot of that bled into how we did the offense in fantasy football as well. Every single idea, fanciful idea that people had about how good this could be and the idea of pairing Justin Herbert with Mike McDaniel and just the excitement around this group, none of it was warranted. None of it. Every single thing that could have gone wrong about this thing has gone wrong. It's been an absolute disaster.

40:11Robert Mays: Like, there's really no other way to talk about it or paint it. That's exactly how it's been. Full-blown disaster. And I think like the cherry on top for this game, it feeling that bad, this was the first time the defense looked like kind of good. Like obviously the Seahawks end up scoring points, but like this was by far the Seahawks' worst offensive performance of the season. And they really only like started getting the scoring going because the Chargers muffed the punt and gave them the ball in like the 23-yard line. Like the defense actually played, the defense today was like what you would have hoped going into the season, where they look like a mildly above average unit.

40:45They're not as good as the Minter teams, but they give you enough chances and they really only get screwed when it's like the Seahawks had to dip into the reverse bag and oh, JSN makes one or two crazy plays and you give up a screen on a short field. It's like that stuff's going to happen to all but the best five or six defenses and you could have lived with that. So the fact that you got what the defense was supposed to be on this game and then the offense was still an abject failure, that was like the extra bit of salt in the wound.

41:11Robert Mays: The moment where the game flips, in my opinion, the Seahawks had a third and 16 in the second quarter. I think when they were up seven to three. So it's third and 16. And Darnold hits JSN in cover two. He's just wide open as I think it was him or which safety it was. That was like drifting away from him in cover two. I don't remember the safety, but I remember the play because they actually thought it was a neat little design. design that's one of those where buddy's third and six sixteen the only guy we can get these 16 yards is jsn so they run him on that like deep kind of skinny post uh into the isolated side but on the trip side the other way they have the number three run straight at the curl defender to that side so he actually has to stay tied down so darnold can throw that ball over his head i actually thought that that was a really neat design but you you would hope for a little bit more from the safety they're giving you a little bit of help yeah the safety it's it's to that side It's Tony Jefferson, and he's just getting a ton of depth as JSN's getting vertical on that play, and it gives JSN space to kind of break that thing off on the post underneath it.

42:14Robert Mays: But like you said, it's a really good job. It's actually Cooper Cup who ends up pinning down both the linebacker and the pole player on that play to create the space to make that throw. And the game changes there. The Seahawks score on the next possession, they get a sack on third and long on the possession after that. And then the Seahawks score on that play, And then early in the second half, they end up scoring again and go up 27 to six. And so the game kind of gets away from them there. But that play, in my opinion, because it was seven to three with eight and a half, like nine minutes left in the second quarter.

42:45Robert Mays: And you had them in third and 16 and them converting. That really does flip the game. It absolutely ruined the game for them. And like, that's just that again, in a lot of ways, like if you had given up that play, like that's that's fine. If the offense had given you anything like three or four bad plays from the defense is going to be what it's going to be. because it really was that kind of performance for them. I thought down to down, they were really good. Like they were really, really good down to down. It's just you had... The offense had trouble, had problems yesterday. I mean, Darnold looked pretty unsettled for a good majority of this game.

43:15He looked unsettled and the run game outside of like, they got one to pop later in the game and then the Shahid reverse was just getting nuked in the backfield all the time by Khalil Mack and Tuley Tuley Pelo too. Those guys were, which I will say, the fact that the Seahawks run game for the most part when it's what they want it to be is, we're going to run outside zone it's going to be right at AJ Barner all this stuff we're going to run weak zone off of it the Chargers are kind of like the perfect team to stop them from doing that because Thule and Mac are like we are going to set the edge and we are going to get into the backfield and so that's another frustration is like you were like the perfect matchup for this team you still had a couple of bonehead plays and then obviously your offense gave you nothing it was just all their losses this year have been particularly frustrating but this did feel like in some ways this game should have been a lot closer and you should have had a chance to beat maybe the best team in the NFL and you just like completely squandered it the touchdown to Shahid was kind

44:09Robert Mays: of awesome oh I mean I understand that it's actually a really it's a really fun thought coming into this week it's like all right Jadarian Price is hurt okay so now we're working with some combination of George Helani and Emmanuel Wilson and we're really just trying to get by at running back, what we're missing most without price is pop, right? We have, we are missing the opportunity for explosive runs. A price is not going to play. How do we solve for that? And the idea of putting Shahid in, in those moments to try to get one of those, I actually think is really inspired. And so for them to hit one of those in the way that they did, that's a really cool, just sequence of events where you're like, this is a good idea.

44:52Robert Mays: We should try to do this to make up for what we're now missing and then to hit on it in the way that they did. I have to imagine if you're a member of the offensive staff, it's like, yeah, man, I can't believe that actually worked. You know, it's funny to mention Shahid. Somebody posted this and I can't remember who it was, so I'm sorry, but they were like Rashid Shahid will just score a touchdown in every way except for catch one. Part returns, kick returns, give him a jet, like any of that stuff. You'll find a way to the end zone, but pure pass. No, it's not for him right now. The last thing I'll say, I mean, I don't, what else are we going to say about the defense?

45:25Robert Mays: Like they played the way I want them to play against an offense like the Chargers. That's what I'll say. Like you watch what Byron Murphy did. You watch what, again, you mentioned what even worry did as a, as a pass rusher, even worry blew up a play five yards deep in the backfield as a run defender. Leonard Williams was all over the place. Ernest Jones had the interception. The defense looked how you want the defense to look. And now they're much closer to full strength than they've really been at any point this season because even with Imanwari back playing a limited number of snaps last week Julian Love wasn't playing and so now you get Imanwari back in the nickel but then obviously they're playing around with him and doing a bunch of different stuff I think the fact that they're willing to use Imanwari in a such a varied role and keep Pritchett as one of those outside corners and keep Spoon in the nickel I almost think that's a good thing like the idea that they weren't just looking at their watches, waiting for the moment when they could get that third outside corner off the field.

46:23Robert Mays: I would be I'd feel pretty good about that if I were the Seahawks, like landing in this place four weeks into the season. Well, and credit to Mike McDonald again. Pritchett looks like good. I still don't know if he's like as good as like the best of Tariq Wolland, but Pritchett looks a lot better than I would have thought going into this year. And so, again, if he's good enough that you can allow Witherspoon to be at his best position, because obviously last year, these two would be on the field together, right? Like Eminwari and Devin Witherspoon. but I think Witherspoon is always at his best when he's in the nickel when you can really weaponize him as a downhill player and I think the way that they've been using Emanwari is even more as like a missile and downhill weapon and really just throwing him at problems rather than asking him to sit in space and kind of read stuff out which when you're a freak of nature athlete the way that he is like yeah like let's just send him at the problem how do you feel about that do you do you feel like that even if it's the best way to use him right now and it really arguably makes you more dangerous as a defense.

47:20Robert Mays: Would you maybe want to see him working on more stuff where he's having to figure out stuff in space, where he's having to play more in coverage just because at some point you probably are going to need him to be that sort of player. And you can make an argument that's where he probably needs the most work. It is where he needs the most work. I have never felt that he was going to be a good player who was like on a backpedal, really taking space in zones, like playing that way. I think he's really good as a flat defender when like, again, it's very limited what your scope is going to be. Or when he's playing man-to-man, he's actually pretty good.

47:51But I do think that he's always been a guy where the footwork is just a little bit sloppy. He can kind of be top heavy sometimes. And I think some of the angles that he's taken, the further he's from the ball, whether it was his rookie year, whether it was in college, it's just not his best stuff. And I think it probably is a detriment a little bit to his long-term development that they're not asking him to do that. But I think with as many other good players as they have, I'm not necessarily worried about them trying to make the best of Nick Emanwari in year five. I think I'm okay with them using Nick Emanwari however they need to to make him the best defense that they can be in year two for him.

48:27I think that that's perfectly okay.

48:29Robert Mays: Yeah, and the answer to that seems to be missile slash battering rim, which he's taken to pretty well. They're using him like Frankie Lufu or something. All right, we're going to take one more quick break and then come back and chat Cardinals Giants. This episode is brought to you by Onnit. You know those days where your schedule is packed to the brim? You're jumping straight from managing work deadlines to squeezing in a workout, running family errands, and trying to handle a million things all at once? When you're deeply engaged in a busy day, staying in that zone can make all the difference.

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51:31live watch-alongs of the biggest games with award-winning analysis and behind-the-scenes insights from Athletic Insiders. On Off Days, we'll go deeper into the hard-hitting stories you can't get enough of. And we want you, the smartest fans in sports, to be part of it. Come drop questions in the chat and we'll bring the answers straight from the source. The Athletic Live presented by Google Gemini. Follow us on YouTube and we'll see you in the chat.

52:05Robert Mays: the new york giants knock off the arizona cardinals 36 to 24 this play this game comes down to the final play i mean the cardinals were driving to potentially score the go-ahead touchdown deontay banks picks off jacobie percent takes it all the way back so it looks a lot more lopsided the game actually was plenty of stuff that we can dig into i'm going to start with just with my big picture takeaway from the Giants performance in particular the best players on the field in my opinion yesterday in this game were Malik neighbors and Abdul Carter and if you are the New York Giants that's it like that that is exactly what you want to be even if this season is going to be a little bit strange because Jackson Dart doesn't play and you're probably not going to be able to get all the answers that you want to.

52:56Robert Mays: One of the big things with this team over the last couple of years is these guys that you drafted in the top five that are supposed to be these special players and both Carter and neighbors were supposed to be special players. And we've seen those flashes, right? When neighbors was healthy, he was incredibly exciting. And I thought what Carter showed last year, it was really easy to buy into him taking a big leap and just being a potentially dominant player. And then you go back and you watch the entirety of this game. Malik Nabors conjured plays out of thin air for the offense multiple different times.

53:31Robert Mays: And Abdul Carter was legitimately unblockable. Legitimately. He had eight quick pressures in this game per next gen. Eight. And then you go back and you watch and it's like, oh, that's not fake. Those are earned. Those are real. He is nuking the game. And so that was just my prevailing thought going back and watching this is that the young stars that the Giants need to be stars were exactly that yesterday. They were incredible. I mean, the play that neighbors makes where they throw that like high like corner route to him and it's he's not even really open. And he just makes like a twirly insane catch on the ball.

54:10And that's one of those like when he first became a rookie, it was like, oh, it's flashes of Odell Beckham again. That was another play where it was like that is what it looked like when he was at his best, too. And so like, I thought that that play was incredible. Their offense was bizarre where like, I actually thought it was called and like schemed up pretty well in this game. And the quarterback was just horrendous. Like they could have scored 50 points, I thought with the way that they were they were cooking some stuff up like there were corner routes left open that they did not connect on like the in the two minute warning, like he could have hit likely on like a deep corner.

54:42There were a number of other stuff that I thought they were doing that was really impressive. Like I actually thought I want to give credit to like a Giants coaching staff that I think we all were like, what is this really supposed to be with Greg Roman, Matt Nagy, all this stuff? I actually did think in this game it was called pretty well. And like they really picked on a lot of what the Cardinals were trying to do specifically in their two high stuff. Like a lot of their big plays came against cover, too. And they just found like a really, really good answers for that. Like the one that I really want to talk about was in the second quarter, two and a half minutes left.

55:14they get into empty and so Scadabo's all the way at the number one to the left hand side Malik Neighbors is at three they run him straight up the field on that uh just kind of on a on basically like a seam bender and the the safety to that side he's playing a deep half he's so concerned about playing his rules that he's like I gotta get depth and I've got to push because that's what you do in cover too you get off the hash and it's like let's think for a second the Giants are putting their best player on the ball inside I think they're telling you they want him to run up the field you should probably overlap and get there but it's like a backup safety and he doesn't get there and you know he actually makes a good throw and so I just thought they did a really good job of picking on stuff like that for a lot of this game yeah I totally agree I had that play

56:00Robert Mays: as well a couple of the other moments that stuck out to me uh the dry on the same drive where um neighbors makes that crazy catch uh in the first quarter there was a third and six where winston gets all the way back to him on a third and six the the blitz pickup from cam scadaboo on this play on this third and six is probably my favorite one i've seen this year from any single back not only does he stonewall the linebacker in the hole he actually like puts him in the ground which that was incredible and so that really jumped out to me and then the other play in my notes that truly like a game-changing play the play right before the Deontay Banks interception the play that Drew Phillips makes to get the PBU on that second down in order to force that final play phenomenal play and then sorry the last guy talking about guys drafted high they need to play well Arvel Reese is a very exciting player very looking forward to the next however many years we get of Arbel Reese because he also had like four or five moments in this game he's he's already got so many like you see some of the flashes and then too I just even think down to down he's always going the right way and in the right spot and it's a matter of like man a few more reps he's going to know exactly when does he actually stop and like go hit the lineman it's just like very small tweaks to him actually finishing plays and like getting in the way that like man the fact that he's already moving in the right direction so many times like I'm I'm really excited with where he's going to be.

57:27Like, the fact that they have so much speed on this defense, and then you bring up Drew Phillips. He had another play in this game where they tried to throw, like, a screen his way, and he goes up and immediately drives and kills it, and he doesn't actually get the tackle, but it forces him to, like, slow down. He runs right into Tremaine Edmonds, who was able to make the play. And so I actually did think the Giants' defense at certain points in this game were making some really impressive plays. So I'm – actually, the other thing I want to shout out is not about the defense, but to go back to the coaching staff a little bit, did you notice that when they the Giants I think got to it was when they the Cardinals had 14 points and they scored and the Giants get 12 instead of settling for the extra point to make it 13 14 they actually tried the two point to tie it up I actually love that because not going just getting the extra point doesn't really it help you necessarily like you know one point is better than zero whatever and they failed it but I actually like them taking the tie there because And later in the game, they went for another two point conversion and they got it.

58:26And so they're right back to even anyway. And that's kind of the whole point of why you should do stuff like this is it can give you like more favorable positions. And so I actually thought that was another little bit of like shout out to the coaching staff again. Like I actually do think in a lot of ways they're doing a pretty good job this year.

58:40Robert Mays: Yeah, it was just a strange game. We had five combined interceptions and like those turnovers were all pretty impactful. I mean, the game kind of does swing. The Giants score to make it 14-12, like you just said. and then because they were down 14-7, right? The Cardinals were really moving the ball in the first half. They were running the ball efficiently. So the Giants are down 14-7 as we get into the back half of the second quarter. The Giants score, and then on third down on that drive, Jacoby Brissett gets intercepted because Shelby Harris deflects a pass to Arvel Reese, and the Giants then score to go up 19-14.

59:14Robert Mays: And so that stretch in the back half of the second quarter from the five-minute mark essentially until we got to the end of the half a lot changes in the game because the Cardinals were moving the ball pretty well and pretty consistently for a good chunk of the first half of this thing. And like, yeah, like I did think too, there were certain points I, even for as well as they played in the first half, I still thought that there were just some weird moments from the Cardinals offense. Like the first play of the game, like Marvin Harrison Jr. is going to break open on like a deep outbreaker and Brissett just doesn't want to throw it.

59:45He turns it down and comes back to McBride. I thought that was a little bit weird. And then the interception he throws on the high corner early in the second quarter, that's one of those like he leaves a corner route low and inside, which is like the last place that you're allowed to do that. Which if you're a veteran quarterback, to me, it's like, you know, you got to miss that high in a way. And so I just thought that was a little bit bizarre from them. But for a Cardinals offense that for a lot of this season has actually had moments, it was kind of a little bit distressing that in the second half they kind of fell apart the way that they did.

1:00:19Robert Mays: and the defense is worrying at this point i mean there's really no way around it but the defense is just concerning they just don't have enough good players really like zayvon collins is great as like a run defender and every now and then he makes like a pass rush play for you buddha baker was actually awesome in this game like especially in the first half he would driving on every single crosser that the giants were trying to throw but other than that i think the cornerback play is fine but can be up and down at times and then i just think the front is not quite as impactful as we were kind of hoping for.

1:00:50Robert Mays: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, you look at it over the course of the game and they just weren't really affecting the quarterback very much. You just don't feel that front over the course of the day as much as you want to. And they've invested a decent amount in it, right? I mean, like they paid for Josh Sweat and free agency. I thought Walter Nolan, you know, I was looking forward to what his season might look like. And it's early, right? It's early for a year two player, but they're already a little bit banged up. obviously to lose Will Johnson. Like you said, they're digging into their depth at safety.

1:01:19There's a chance that this thing is kind of in tatters for most of the year.

1:01:23Robert Mays: And they're another one of those teams where the offense does have to outscore people. And the idea that we're already there four weeks in is a tough place to land because I did have a little bit of hope that the Cardinals defense could be better than we might have expected because of how banged up they were last year. But it's been pretty disappointing so far. And if you're going to get banged up again, it's like, well, then we're just going to end up where we were last year. And I do think, too, like injuries are going to hurt everybody. But because they play such a weird and specific style of defense, I feel like the injuries kind of matter more in that way.

1:01:53Like, especially with some of the three safety stuff and the way that they play their fronts. Like it just when you start to lose bodies and lose the guys who have reps in it, it does make for some tough sledding.

1:02:04Robert Mays: All right. That is all we've got for the week four hangover. we will be on tonight breaking down saints falcons so if you are watching this on youtube on tuesday that recap is available in your youtube feed if you're watching this on youtube we'd encourage you guys to like subscribe do all of that great stuff especially if you are new to the channel yes as you're listening to this that was actually last night yes last night what a game is when we yeah i'm sure it's gonna be a fantastic game can't can't wait for for saints falcons if you're listening to this on the podcast feed, obviously, that recap is available to you.

1:02:44Robert Mays: So please encourage you guys to check that out. For now, that is all we've got. Appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll See you next time.

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