Week 4 Preview: The Raiders are in our Game of the Week!

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2:05Robert Mays: That's Q-U-O dot com slash tech. Welcome to The Athletic Football Show, brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. No Dave today. He's dealing with some family stuff. It's me and Derek on the week four preview. Lot of fun conversations on this one. Raiders Chiefs is the game of the week. We had to spend some time with the 3-0 Raiders and what has kind of taken them to this point so far. Also chatted about the Niners offense against the Broncos defense. Some Sicko Street that involved Mike Tomlin's Minecraft obsession. And a lot more from the Week 4 slate with me and Derek. Let's get to it right now.

2:54Robert Mays: digging into the week four slate in the nfl we have let's say one and a half games of the week one game we're really going to dig into another where we're going to spend most of our time on one side of the ball this might be our only chance to do this or at least it's a surprising opportunity at the very least the three and oh raiders are playing the three and oh chiefs one One of these teams is going to be 4-0 at the end of week four, and it might be the Las Vegas Raiders. We have not talked a ton about the Raiders. We hit on them on the Sunday night show, but really wanted to spend some time today, Derek, digging into what the Raiders specifically have done this year as obviously, I think, the most surprising 3-0 team in the league.

3:33I mean, they have as many wins, I think, as they did all of last year. Like the way that they are playing. And obviously, you know, again, you make a good point of like, I don't know how many games of the week they'll play, because this will probably taper off a little bit, but they are a seriously good team. Like they're very well coached. They have enough star players on both sides of the ball that they can make a lot of games interesting. And the other thing, like, I know that this is a new Raiders team than it has been in the past couple of years. Doesn't it feel like Raiders Chiefs games are always really weird for one reason or another?

4:02You have like the Christmas game where like Patrick Mahomes plays one of the worst games of his life. And then you have last year where the Chiefs defense played like one of the best defensive games of the century against Geno Smith in that version of the offense like every Raiders Chiefs game just feels bizarre isn't wasn't it a Black Friday game two years ago that was another weird game so they played the Christmas game was three years ago the

4:25Robert Mays: Black Friday game was two years ago that was also weird like there have been plenty of weird Raiders Chiefs games even when there has been a bigger gap even when the Raiders haven't been a buttoned up together the way they are right now yes exactly so now the fact that they're good to well shoot what does that mean so i'm excited to dig into this one let's start with when the chiefs have the ball in this game just because i think those to me are the two most compelling units in this game right now for just a bunch of different reasons let's start with the chiefs offense i think it is hilarious that the chiefs this offseason every single thing that people wanted them to do in order to modernize the offense make it easier on the quarterback just become a harder offense to play against.

5:11Robert Mays: They've done all of those things. There have been some other teams. We'll talk about one of them today where there was so much offseason discourse about we're moving under center. We're going to play a little bit differently. The two teams that we said that about coming into the year that we're wondering how much was going to happen, where the Bengals and the Eagles, the Bengals and the Eagles are 31st and 32nd in success rate on under center passes this year. The Chiefs, there were another team where we were wondering how much are they going to lean into this? How much is it going to matter? How different is the offense going to be?

5:40Robert Mays: The answer is extremely different. And they've seen some real benefits from that so far this year. They really have. And I think that there are a couple of different reasons for that. I think one, you know, we talk about especially like the Eagles and the and the Bengals. I think that there were serious concerns about whether the quarterbacks like those were things that they wanted to do. Those were offenses they wanted to play in. I think with Mahomes, like we've seen the Chiefs do some of this before. And they've been good at it at times. It's just, I think part of the reason they've gotten away from it at certain times is that the run game was never there enough to really make it worth it.

6:16Like they had the one year, I think in 2022 or 2023, where the run game really was good enough to do some of that stuff. Last couple of years, they haven't been able to. You bring in Ken Walker, you can run the ball on your own terms. And I think that's the important part is being able to do it on your own terms and be explosive. It forces defenses to play you in a little bit of a different way you can get more to your 12 personnel hard play action stuff you can boot more effectively like you can and like you see too like they're doing some of the stuff where they'll shuffle a guy in and it looks like insert duo and they run the corner off of it or they like play action the other way and they bring that guy on a crosser and they do all this stuff like that's just stuff that if they tried that a year or two ago you might catch a defense every now and then but they're not like scared of it because they don't give a shit if you're going to run out of that look or not and now they actually have to be terrified of that

7:04Robert Mays: they're just pulling all the levers that a lot of really good offenses in the NFL pull. That's what the Chiefs offense looks like right now, and you're seeing a bunch of the benefits. Just to put some numbers on it, last year, per NextGen, the Chiefs are under center on 18.5 % of their snaps. This year, it's 39.7%. It's just a massive increase from one season to the next. The stat that really jumped out to me, so this season, the Chiefs on under center play action throws, 14 of 18, 0.59 EPA per play, 13 yards per attempt, 73.7 % success rate on under center play action. It's staggering. They have more total EPA.

7:47Robert Mays: So a cumulative number on under center play action throws this year through three games than they've had in three of the last four seasons over the course of the entire season. in three games if they did that with half of an NFL season like if you were saying that by week eight or week nine that would be impressive let alone doing that three games into the season it's and it just makes it's it looks so right it speaks to what you're saying where it doesn't feel out of place for them the first play of the game against the Dolphins they're in heavy personnel under center play action and you have Kelsey on one of those big Seattle corner outs and it goes for a huge chunk gain.

8:27Robert Mays: It's like, this is, you can play this way. Like you have the opportunity to play this way and see the benefits of it. And it is just so gratifying to see them lean into all of this stuff and realize all of the benefits that come with it that everyone wanted them to try to access. And I do think the Kelsey part of it is important. Like all of the schematic stuff is obviously really important and a huge benefit to them. The fact that Kelsey looks better and smoother this year and you bring in Kenneth Walker, like the personnel on this team is just better. And I think we've been saying on the show for years, like the receiver talent needs to be better if they really want to take the next step.

9:03And I still do believe that. Like I would like for them to have a receiver better than the guys that they have. But the fact that what you're getting out of the tight end spot and what you're getting out of the running back spot are more effective and more explosive now, that can make up enough of the gap that we felt last year, where even if this is an imperfect wide receiver core, the guy throwing them the ball is still pretty damn good. And so he can make up enough of that gap when he's getting help from those other guys. And like you said, some of the scheme stuff they're doing.

9:31Robert Mays: I think it's a really cool combination of what they're doing, accentuating the talent and illuminating the talent of their best players and kind of covering up for their weaker players. When you look at just what the entire offense is in combination, the way they're running the ball under center, not only as a way to unleash Kenneth Walker, so many of these runs are hitting right off the center and right guard. And so you're really feeling how good and potent the combination of Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith is in a way that you didn't when you weren't leaning on the ground game as much. And so you have this kind of quartet and maybe a group of five players, if you want to include Kelsey, that are the most important players in the offense.

10:11Robert Mays: And what they're doing is really illuminating and accentuating those players. when you have a ton of under center play action as the foundation of the offense, and then you combine it with what their gun passing game looks like, which is all incredibly quick, get the ball out of our hands, throwing a ton of screens on non-play action passes. Mahomes' time to throw right now is 2.45 seconds. He's averaging five air yards per attempt. And on those plays, they have a 48 % success rate and are averaging 0.1 EPA per drop back per next gen. Those numbers are good. And with both of those, either heavy personnel under center play action, or we're getting the ball out of our hands quickly, you're seeing all the good players shine.

10:52Robert Mays: You're not noticing that the tackles may struggle in pass protection. It's what good offense feels like. It's a long-winded way of saying good offenses, highlight your best players and minimize your worst players. And that's exactly what the Chiefs have done just with the formula that they've been using so far this year. And it's funny, too, because a lot of the screen stuff, throwing quick on the perimeter, all that jazz, they've been doing a lot of that stuff for the last couple of years. But when teams weren't scared of inside run, of giving up explosives, of the play-action game when Patrick Mahomes is just going to drop straight back, you can spend a little bit more of your mental stack and your resources on like, OK, I'm going to go kill this screen.

11:32I'm going to be ready for this. We're going to tackle in the flat. But if defenses are having to think about actually getting and handling a lot more concepts, the screen stuff becomes opened up again. And like, even if their receivers are not perfect or not very good at a lot of things, Rasheed Rice and Xavier Worthy with the ball in their hands can make plays, especially Rasheed Rice.

11:50Robert Mays: That's what Rasheed Rice does. That's the best thing that he does. Building it out of a ton of Rasheed Rice screens is probably the way you should be using Rasheed Rice. And again, this is a broader way of talking about their limitations. But how many times when we were talking about the Chiefs in the offseason, we were like, man, even after week one, when it's third and seven, are you going to believe in this team? The Chiefs this season have faced 21 third and medium and third and long dropbacks. That is the fourth lowest rate in the league. Fourth lowest number in the league. The three teams ahead of that have fewer third and long or third and medium dropbacks.

12:24Robert Mays: The Niners, the Ravens, and the Jags. Think about what we wanted the Chiefs offense to feel like. We wanted to feel more like those teams. And so now the fact that they're grouped with those teams because they're gashing you on first and 10 because of the way that they're playing it's everything that I've ever wanted they are we're giving the best quarterback in the NFL this sort of support and help and I think that this is important too because part of the reason the Rams were as successful as they were last year is they were able to avoid these certain situations and for them it was partly protecting their tackles and then partly protecting like Matthew Stafford when it's pure pass and and stuff like that he's just not going to move as well obviously with Mahomes he can bail you out in some of those scenarios you do have to protect these tackles a little bit though you're on Khalil Benson at left tackle who like given the situation like undrafted rookie and all that stuff has acquitted himself fine still a player who like you would like to have your starters there and then Jalen Moore I think is mediocre kind of like replacement level tackle for them and so them staying out of pure pass where you're just not in as many situations where those guys are going to be exposed what makes this matchup particularly intriguing is that the Chiefs offense is playing at this level and the Raiders defense has been excellent through three games.

13:38Robert Mays: Excellent. You look at the numbers per next gen, third in EPA per play so far this year, the Raiders defense. The only teams that have been better than them are the Seahawks and the Vikings. And so I wanted to just spend a little bit of time talking about what the Raiders defense even is. Who are they? What are they trying to do? Just give a little bit of context to what this unit has been, what their identity is for people who may not have been watching the Raiders up close over the first three weeks of the season. So if you were just trying to articulate who the Raiders are trying to be on that side of the ball and which guys make it go for Rob Leonard's unit, how would you try to articulate that?

14:17I think for me, a lot of the way that it goes is, one, we already, Max Crosby was obviously incredible and we knew that, but I think what you're getting out of all the other ancillary players up front, or guys that they had just brought in, I think has been really impressive. For one, whenever they're in base or if they see heavy personnel, 12, 13, whatever it is, Quay Walker is on the line of scrimmage all the time. And that to me is good coaching because he's long, he can set the edge, he can do that stuff, but it protects him in coverage for a little bit. And like it protects him like he's a fine stack linebacker.

14:47He's better when he can just go and hit people. And so them getting into different fronts because they can use him that way, I think has been really smart. In the run game, they do a lot of like stunting, stemming the front, all this stuff. And the reason being, what is N 'Kobe Dean good at? He can read stuff fine. He's also best just being shot out of a cannon and going and getting into the backfield. Dude, I know exactly what you're going to bring up.

15:09Robert Mays: Yep. Going downhill into the backfield. That is, while watching tape alone in my office, the loudest reaction I have had to an NFL play this season by far. I had an audible reaction. I can't remember exactly when it happened in the game. But he just flies downhill and takes grass. I think it was Kamara. and he just decleted him like in a cartoonish varsity blues any given sunday sort of way it was insane yeah because it's and what they do a lot is they'll take whoever that agap player is tonka hemingway adam butler whoever which by the way both of those guys are playing really really well right now and we can talk about that in a minute but they'll stem one of those guys away and nicobe dean just fires and they get these free runs for like it for a guy who is that fast and closes it's like if if anyone has watched the the Seahawks defense you see Drake Thomas do that a million times and obviously N 'Kobe Dean doesn't need to be protected as much in that way but he's really really good at it and so what I think the front in particular the way they put everybody in the best position to win I think has been really really impressive thus far my biggest concern about them personnel wise coming into the season the Raiders defense was the interior defensive line that was that was my biggest concern I was worried they would get blown off the ball as other teams tried to run the ball against him.

16:24Robert Mays: And that just hasn't happened in part because of how those guys are playing. Tonka Hemingway was, I believe, a fifth round pick last year or fourth round pick. And so he's in year two as a young player. He's playing really well for them. Foley Fatsukasi has given them some decent snaps. Like those are their starting early down defensive tackles. And those guys have played well and they've needed to play well because again, if we get to who are the Raiders, how do they want to play? A lot of what they're trying to do is similar to these Seattle Mike McDonald adjacent defenses. They're playing with a ton of light, and it makes sense, right?

16:59Robert Mays: Clint Kubiak comes from Seattle last year, and then Rob Leonard, who was with the Raiders staff defensively last year as the defensive line coach, he was with Mike McDonald in Baltimore in 2023. And so he has history with this. When I made the comparison to the Jags on the Sunday night show, where I was like, I can't remember when I did that, but I said, what if Rob Leonard is just this year's Anthony Campanile. Anthony Campanile, yeah. So he has a lot. So he worked with a bunch of different types of staffs. He was on the Flora staff in 2021 with Anthony Campanile. And so he has a very similar, like, shared defensive background the way that Campanile does.

17:35Robert Mays: But if you look at the identity, they're playing with a ton of light boxes and they're a ton of two high shells against the run. 66 % of runs against the Raiders this year have come into two high shells. That's a higher rate than the Cowboys with Christian Parker coming from a Fangio defense, that's higher rate than the Eagles, who are a Fangio defense. So that's how they want to play it. And they've held up fine. They're like a middle of the pack run defense when you, and that's good enough when you're playing this way. And so that's what they've wanted to do structurally against the run. Against the pass, if you look at the coverage menu and like what they're trying to do, it is so similar to what the coverage menu looks like for the Seahawks.

18:15Robert Mays: There's a little bit more single high in cover three compared to like cover six, but it's the menu looks pretty similar the blitz rates look pretty similar and even the way they're playing looks pretty similar like the get the space and air they get in depth they get in some of these zone coverages there are two teams in the nfl so far this season that have created at least negative one epa per drop back on throws of 20 plus yards it's the seahawks and the raiders and if you watch the way that they play it's not surprising not at all and and part of the magic with the Seahawks is if you're going to play this way, you're going to play so many of these two high shells, you're going to kind of concede space and you're going to like make sure that you're on top of everything.

18:53Well, if you can't run up and tackle in the flat, when you give up all of those easy completions, then it doesn't matter. Like the Chargers have been under Jesse Minter. The Chargers were very good at this. The Eagles have typically been good at this. The Seahawks have been good at this, like that style of defense. You have to be able to do it. The way that these guys come up and tackle is impressive to me. Like I think like the corners, I think have been up to the task. N 'Kobe Dean in particular has been insane at like quick to the flat. Anytime he gets a check down, he's on it. If he sees a shallow coming back his way, he's instantly killing it.

19:25Like his ability to get space when he needs to get to his landmarks, but come down and make sure as soon as the quarterback's triggering, I'm getting on top of it. He's, he's been phenomenal. I mean, he's, I do want to sit on him for a second. He has been even better than he was in Philly, honestly. Like he was a good player in Philadelphia. I think he has truly taken a step for this defense. He's been phenomenal through three games.

19:46Robert Mays: We've seen these types of contracts work out for linebackers. The linebacker is a position where you really do age into your best football as you get into your second deal. And because some teams and with the Eagles specifically, they accounted for it, right? They drafted Shahad Campbell in the first round. They signed Zach Vaughn and committed to him financially in a way they probably would never would have imagined when they drafted N 'Kobe Dean. So he just happened to be the odd man out. And this just isn't that surprising. He was already a good player. And we see linebackers in their age 25, 26, 27 season able to do stuff like this.

20:18Robert Mays: And so incredibly cool stuff from him so far. The two other guys I would shout out, you are talking Hemingway is one of them, just in terms of why this feels a little bit different. And I think Teron Johnson is doing some really good stuff, especially against the run. This team plays a nickel like 84 % of the time. your nickel needs to be a physical run defender if you're going to play that way and he's coming downhill like he he has really given them some physicality from that spot in a way that they've needed based on how they're trying to play and honestly that was surprising to me I thought Johnson had kind of lost it a little bit like I just I thought the last year or two just not as physical not as quick in the run game um I think the coverage stuff you love had lost a little bit from him but for whatever reason I don't know where what fountain of youth he's found or whatever but he is playing much better football than I had anticipated for them.

21:07Robert Mays: The funny thing about going back and watching the Saints game over again is that in the early part of that game, they were trying like a lot of pass rush stunts where you got Crosby doing these like big loot, like just being a looper in like a slow kind of comical way. It just looked very messy. And then in the second half, they were just like, f*** this. And they just started bringing five-man pressures and letting guys pin their ears back. And Malcolm Kuntz is somebody else that's worth mentioning. like you've really seen it from him and I think that specifically what we saw from the pass rush when they really let their guys go in the second half that's the part I'm watching in this game against the Chiefs if you can stop the run on early downs get them into more of those third and sevens can that group Crosby, Kuntz, Quidipe to an extent can we see the limitations of those tackles for the Chiefs in a way we really haven't so far this season and I think if I'm if I'm the Chiefs that is what I'm most worried about like I think when you're going to get you know Max Crosby lines up a lot over the right tackle I think him versus Jalen Moore that is huge advantage Max Crosby like he is he's playing on if not first team all pro track right now like definitely second team like he is again one of the best edge rushers in the league he's been phenomenal both run and pass and then Koontz like if he's going to line up on the other side he often does line up like to the quarterback's blind side again Khalil Benson has been fine you can get the corner on him.

22:29Like he's just not quite as athletic as some of these other guys. And a guy like Koontz, that's what he's really good at. He can get the corner on you and he can really turn it. He had a handful of really impressive reps the last couple of weeks doing exactly that. And so I do think that there's a world that the Raiders run defense is good enough that if you just get two drives, two or three drives where you can force a third and nine, a third and 10, whatever it's going to be. And on those one or two plays, Max Crosby just tears off and make a play. I do think that that's probably what they're going to need to make this thing work for them.

23:01Robert Mays: The question will be whether the offense has enough. And let's dig into that a little bit. When you watch the Raiders offense right now, it's funny because in week two, they did scheme up a lot of really cool stuff, some of the vertical plays that they hit. And then last week, it was just all Brock Bowers all the time. Like that's what the offense was. And so I'm just wondering at three weeks into the season, as you've gone back and watched this, what are your just general impressions of the Raiders offense, who they're trying to be and how effective that's looked so far. I'm really impressed with what they do, given what they have.

23:32I think that they are an offense that does a really good job of stressing your rules. Like, I think that they're pure drop back game stuff. Like, they're going to make you wrong. They're going to run with crossers you don't want to be running with. They're going to put, especially, I think, middle of the field defenders. Like, they run a lot of, like, swirl concepts. You know, like, whatever you want to call it, where basically you have, like, a little spot route and the dig behind it. Stuff like that or constraint plays off of that. that really mess with those middle-of-the-field players. And I think they, Kirk Cousins does a really good job of seeing and throwing them.

24:01And so I think the first couple of weeks, you saw them having to do that stuff. I also think some of their schemed-up shot plays have been good. Like the call they had against cover two against the Chargers, getting Trey Tucker open, I thought was fantastic. They have a good sense for when and how to call that. And then I thought last week with Bowers, I don't think he's going to get 13 targets every week. I hope he does. I mean, I hope he does too. I think he's an incredible player. I just think them like force feeding him the ball that way. That to me felt like a this is his first game. This is our best player.

24:31Let's go see how far we can push this. And I think obviously it worked really, really well for them. I think over the course of the year, we're going to get more to a blend. And so I think I have been impressed with them. You still see some limitations, right? Like the wide receiver core is pretty limited in a lot of ways. It's still not great, even if Trey Tucker, I think, is having a pretty good season. And then Kirk Cousins just limits some of what the offense can do compared to what Kubiak could do with Sam Darnold. The arm talent is obvious. The other thing is with Sam Darnold, and this is still true of the Seahawks, huge boot team.

25:03They're a team that they've rolled out a ton, especially from under center, off of all their outside zone stuff. Kirk Cousins is just not a threat when he's on the move like that. He doesn't throw as well. He's not a threat to run the way that Sam Darnold can. And so I think they've a little bit struggled to piece together the offense in the same way as they did in Seattle. I still think they're doing a really good job personnel-wise.

25:23Robert Mays: I agree with that. I think you just feel some of the limitations, right? So their run game, their bottom seven in EPA per rush, but their fourth in rush rate. And I think some of that is just the gambit that Clint Kubiak was entered into last year. When you structure the offense that way, the most important thing you do is you hide the offensive line. And the pass protection for this team, given the personnel up front, has been way better than you ever would have hoped, the same way it was for Seattle last year. And so there's a little bit of give and take there, but the run game has not been very good.

25:54Robert Mays: That's been one of the areas where they've struggled. They've not been very explosive. They're 28th in explosive play rate. And I think overall, outside of Trey Tucker, it's just not an explosive group of players like Mike Washington. And the backs kind of are Bowers, I guess. But Bowers even isn't that type of player. Bowers is explosive insofar as like, you know, we often say explosives are like 16 plus yard passes. He can get you a lot of those. You're not going to get that many like 50 yard, like monster chunks. Like it's not that style of explosive. And even, and the, to me, the player where you feel the, it, you look at what Kirk Cousins is even compared to what Sam Darnold is.

26:35Robert Mays: And like you said, with the boots, there's just a, there's a gap in explosiveness and pop between those players. Kirk is doing an admirable job. Kirk is 38 years old. Kirk wasn't an explosive player when he was at his physical peak. And so when you're watching him, you just you feel that lack of oomph with what he can bring to the position. And I think ultimately that's going to lower the ceiling for what this team can be on offense. But the floor and what they're trying to do and what the combination of like Bowers and Gentry give you and what Kumbiak is doing as a play caller is so, so much higher than it was for this team last year.

27:12Robert Mays: And I think exactly what you were signing up for when you made this hire and when you decided you wanted to be this team. Yeah, that's the thing. You can clearly see the vision for it. One last thing I do want to note for this game specifically. Ashton Gentry was really bad in pass pro last week against the Saints. And you run up against Spags, man, he's he's going to test you on it. And I do think I do wonder how many times they really try to stick him up in pass pro and see how that's going to work out for them. all right let's get to our other game of the week broncos at niners wanted to mostly focus on the niners offense against the broncos defense in this game i think that's the more interesting single matchup and then just to talk about what the niners offense has done so far this year i tweeted this stat out earlier today that you can mention a million of them for the niners the niners have created a first down on like 54 and a half percent of their non-play action passes this year the team that's in second place is the bills they're at 41 the gap between the niners and the bills at one and two is bigger than the gap between the bills and titans in 22nd place that's crazy you are like a full like standard deviation better than everybody else it's been absolutely ridiculous like i actually i went back and i watched and we can talk about some of the specifics of it.

28:37Robert Mays: I thought that the Cardinals game plan last week against them was really good and really interesting. The Cardinals last week per next gen played less single high against the Niners than any team has played in the last five years. And what happened is that they did a great job of taking away some of those middle of the field chunks that the Niners really like to seek out. The first big hit that Mike Evans took, they're trying to throw an inbreaker to Mike Evans And that backside safety in quarters is just sitting on it, waiting for it. And so they played a ton of quarters, a ton of cover six, a ton of cloud.

29:11Robert Mays: And they're like, we are not going to let you get these chunks down the field. We know that's what you want to do. And so the Niners passing game in the first half had more fits and starts than normal. So they come out in the second half and they're just like, all right, fine. If you want to do this, we're going to run the ball down your throat. And if you want to sit in quarters and leave the linebackers like in underneath coverage, a little bit vulnerable, we have George Kittle and Kyle Shanahan and Brock Purdy. And so they are right now, and I know they've played against the Dolphins and the Niners and the Rams in a weird game in Australia, but you just felt over the course of that game, how based on the coaching, based on the personnel, whatever avenue you force them down offensively, they're going to be comfortable exploring that avenue and living that way.

29:56Robert Mays: And there just aren't that many offenses in the league that to me feel that flexible in any given moment. It might be the most flexible a Kyle Shanahan offense has ever felt. Like I think even when they've been at their best, it usually has been like a very particular way that they are doing it. 2023 is probably the other example where they started to do more of the drop back stuff like this with Brock Purdy, obviously really weaponizing CMC in a different way. This feels like they have gotten back to that level where they really can do a little bit of everything. And I would even say, even though they were doing more of the drop back stuff in 2023 than they ever really did with Jimmy, Purdy was not as good at it as he is now, I think.

30:36Like, I think the way that he sees it, the way that he throws it, I think is better. And so even if he has some other issues, like I do think in this game, like because they were doing such a good job of like robbing some stuff out of the too high stuff, like he probably should have thrown a couple of picks. He should have. I do think that what he's doing underneath with how they can run the ball. And the other thing is like, he did almost have those couple of picks, but like you need to test down the field five, six, seven times, whatever it's going to be in this offense to allow the underneath and run game stuff to work.

31:06Because when it does, they just punch you in the face for like a 70 % success rate and march down the field. I don't mind that.

31:14Robert Mays: No, you have to do it. That's what I'm saying. He's got a few of those. Like, I would rather see him play that way and have it be a little bit more on the razor's edge than watching them just get clamped down with teams playing a bunch of quarters against them all the time and just eating everything up underneath and the way that they felt last year when they played the Seahawks. You're going to have to push the ball down the field in order to reach your ceiling as an offense. And I don't mind him being a little bit aggressive. And I'm with you. I've landed in a place with Purdy where he, this is a fan.

31:44Robert Mays: we talked a lot about quarterback situation on the midweek show. I think there are people who were a little bit frustrated that we didn't talk about Brock Purdy. And I think the place I land with Brock Purdy is Brock Purdy's been in a great situation since he entered into the NFL. Like, he has Kyle Shanahan. Even if there have been some injuries, the fact that Kyle Shanahan is there, I said the Niners had the third best quarterback supporting cast in the NFC coming into the season. And I think people push back on that because the injury concerns and everything else, Go watch what the offense is.

32:16Robert Mays: The offense is incredibly well designed. It is meticulously put together. But at the same time, you have a quarterback that is perfectly suited to get the most out of it. He is so, so good at being the maestro of this thing because of how fast he reads stuff out, how efficient he is in reading that stuff out. And he can do so much off schedule. like there are not that many quarterbacks in the league right now that I think could be doing a better job with the Niners offense than Brock Purdy is doing if you put him in average circumstances in somebody else's offense I don't know what it would look like but I think the list of guys who could do what he is doing in the Niners offense right now is very very short I agree like the way that they are put the particular way that they are trying to play football and also we're never going to have to see Brock Purdy anywhere else anyway.

33:08Like so long as him and as long as Kyle Shanahan is in town and unless he gets a bunch of injuries, like it's probably going to be here for the next six, seven, eight years, whatever it's going to be. And so he's, he is the perfect quarterback for what they want to do right now. Like the way that the offense is functioning with all the drop back stuff, really attacking teams underneath. I do think that he's been very, very good at it. And like Kyle Shanahan, it's, it's funny because, and maybe this really was more product of Jimmy Garoppolo or past quarterbacks that he's had before. But like six or seven years ago, I remember being like, man, Shanahan is one of the best at it.

33:42But the pure past stuff is just like not his best realm. And ever since he's gotten CMC, it's they've been like the best in the league at being able to scheme up that sort of stuff.

33:53Robert Mays: That to me is what's really impressed me about him as a play caller and a play designer over the last few years. And it really came into the lineup and they were able to do more of the pure progression drop back stuff and cmc also was a huge part of it like mcafree changed the identity of the offense it was a combination of mcafree as a receiver and the strengths of the quarterback relative to the other guys that they had had transform what the offense felt like and it makes them to me more resilient situationally than even a team like the ramps like we talked about this like what mcveigh and that group in pure pass situations on third and medium third and long just don't have as many answers as a team like this does like they're when they're it's when it's third and seven they're not worried when it's third and seven they're not concerned they've got answers in those situations and that wasn't always the case when the Niners were an under center play action team they're an under center team but they are a drop back team now in a way that they didn't used to be and in a way that has drifted away from a lot of the other Shanahan Kubiak guys that still do rely on that as like a baseline for who they want to be on early downs.

35:05And again, some of this is quarterback driven to like Jimmy Garoppolo from even or behind was just not going to bail you out of games. And like pretty is not into Josh Allentier or whatever, but like he can do some shit when he has to like on a third down scramble and stuff, even if the Niners offense is wrong in the call in the play that they call, he could get a 50 yard scramble in his last game. I don't remember if it was on a third down but got called back for some sort of like late holding like halfway down the field that he like was already 20 yards down the field by the time it happened like he he does have that

35:32Robert Mays: gear to him i just think overall like this offense was great in 2023 i i just feel like he's better than he was then like the numbers were incredible then but i think he is doing more lifting in why the offense feels great than it was that again it's some of the pushing the ball down the field the off schedule stuff, whatever. Like he will, it'll tail off. I'm sure when they play a better competition, they won't average 0.6 EPA per drop back or whatever it is that they're averaging now. But Brock Purdy is playing at an MVP level. And if they continue to do this and he just has this sort of season all the way through, he would be a worthwhile MVP in a way that I think would have been a little bit harder to argue with the quality of player he was three years ago, which is understandable.

36:16Robert Mays: It was his second year in the NFL. It was his second year as a starter. Yeah, most guys are not going to win MVP in their second. It's happened more recently than history would suggest, but most of those guys are not going to do that, and that's okay. What do you think all this means against the Broncos? Because when I wuggle back and watch that Cardinals game, and I even think about the way the Niners attack the Rams in Week 1, attacking those Broncos linebackers in space is the way that you probably should build your passing approach, and I'm not sure there's a team better equipped to play that way right now than the San Francisco 49ers.

36:51I think that they're going to kind of be able to do what they want on offense for a number of different reasons. Like, I think the Broncos, we always think of the Broncos as a man coverage team, and they are. Their zone coverage stuff is good, but they are still a team that wants to be able to man coverage on you. Sertan's going to follow your best guy. McMillan's going to be able to run across the slot and cover you and stuff like that. You can't do that against the Niners generally, especially not with these linebackers. I think Justin Sternot has been a little bit better than previous seasons in coverage.

37:19still a guy that against somebody like a George Kittle, like a CMC going to be very gettable. And so I fear the Broncos are not going to be able to do as much of the stuff that they want. The other thing that we talked about, you know, you talked about the Niners being able to stay out of those third and seven situations in general. Like they just are have an ability to kind of run the ball and stay on pace and stuff like that. Broncos have not been a very good run defense team for a lot of this season, actually. Part of that is just, you know, some of the teams they've played. Some of it is some of the, you know, losing guys like John Franklin Myers and stuff like that.

37:50I do think against the Niners, the way that they want to run the ball, which is we are going to create leverage and double teams on the outside. That's what you should do against the Broncos who don't have very big edge players. And so I think their ability to do that is going to be really good. So this feels like a game where the Broncos defense is really good. They've got some guys who can make plays. the Niners feel like the exact offense to get them out of their rhythm and play the game that they want in a way that the Rams were not quite as equipped to do, obviously, as we saw towards the end of that game.

38:21Robert Mays: Yeah, I just think the Ram, the Niners right now are more complete offense. When the Rams can play the game on their terms, they're still incredibly dangerous. But like we said, I just think their Niners are more well-rounded now because of all the different ways they can attack you. The only, the last thing I wanted to ask, what's our situation with mike evans is mike evans do we think mike evans is playing i think we think mike evans is playing yes okay all right that's good because i'm looking at the injury report here and he's the the offensive lead which is what we're sitting here talking about he's really the only guy to that we're talking that we're thinking about and then tron williams is good tron williams is good okay yes all right well that's good news after the way the last weekend all right let's take our first quick break and then come back and hit one thing from three more of these week four games Football season has arrived, and with the U.S.

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40:51Hey, I'm Max Brown. You know The Athletic is home to the world's best sports journalism, but this fall, just in time for football season, we're launching something unlike anything we've ever done. We're building a daily show streaming live on YouTube. Me, Kofi Yoboa, Charles McDonald, and the Athletic's own Zach Harper and Daniel Popper. We'll be hosting live watch-alongs of the biggest games with award-winning analysis and behind-the-scenes insights from Athletic Insiders. On off days, we'll go deeper into the hard-hitting stories you can't get enough of. And we want you, the smartest fans in sports, to be part of it.

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41:47Robert Mays: Let's start with the Jaguars at the Bengals. This one's on me. I'm watching the Bengals offense against the Jags defense. That's the thing I'm most interested in this in this game. The Bengals offense so far, we alluded to it a little bit earlier on the show, but hasn't been the smoothest operation with this transition to the under center world so far this year for the Bengals offense. Right now, they are if you're looking at just the numbers, their bottom five and under center rate at 30 percent. But that's almost double what they were last year. The fact that they're down near the bottom of the league is in part a product of the fact that league-wide, we've had a 7 % point jump in under center usage over the first three weeks compared to what last year looked like.

42:29Robert Mays: Out of those looks so far, the run game has been solid. They've been more efficient running the ball from under center than they have been out of the gun. But the passing game just hasn't been very good. They're 31st in passing success rate from under center so far this year. Only the Eagles have been worse. and I get why they wanted to try to do this. I understood every bit of the rationale, the motivation. We want to be able to be a little bit more explosive. We want to be able to run the ball on our terms. I do think in the long run, that second part is worth hanging on to over the course of the year.

43:03Robert Mays: But the under center play action passing part of this so far, I think the benefits you're trying to find don't outweigh the drawbacks. like when I watch them do this stuff Joe Burrow just doesn't feel like the best version of himself when he's trying to do these things and I think that you can make an argument which we can talk about they wanted to do this because they wanted to be more explosive the two explosives they hit in the Steelers game one was just a go ball to Tee Higgins and then the second was a back shoulder ball to Jabbar I think it was fourth down it was fourth and two it was against cover three it's one on one to back shoulder ball, that ball doesn't get thrown with that timing if Joe Burrow is turning his back to the defense.

43:50Robert Mays: And so I think it's a combination of him being able to play with that sort of timing. You're getting more guys out in routes out of the gun stuff compared to what you're trying to do with two and three man concepts from under center. And so even if I get what they were trying to do, it's been rocky enough. And I think you feel the difference enough that maybe straying away from this as much as you can while maintaining the run game benefits, if you can do that, I think might be worthwhile for the Bengals. This is kind of what I feared for them. And it's funny because for years I had said, man, they need to get more under center.

44:24They need to be able to run the ball on their terms. They need to be able to do all this stuff because in my mind, in a perfect world, if we're kind of removing the exact players from the equation, I do think that's the best way to run an offense where you can get under center. You can get into different personnel packages and have a little bit of an answer for everything. It's a little bit of what we're talking about with the 49ers just now. And the Chiefs. And the Chiefs. Yes, exactly. I think we have come to a point with Joe Burrow where it's very obvious he's good at certain things. And he's just not good or comfortable at other things, which is the getting under center, throwing over the middle of the field with his back turned.

44:58Like when they do the play action under center stuff, it's either immediately throw the shot, the alert, whatever it is, or check down to the flat. he's not they're not calling or throwing any of the over the middle of the field stuff because I just don't know that he is that comfortable with it and so I do kind of he or Zach Taylor whoever they should almost accept their fate as like being the mid-2010s Pittsburgh Steelers where it's Ben Roethlisberger is going to be in gun he's going to have Antonio Brown and whatever other secondary random third round receiver is playing really well for them at a given time and they're just going to kind of spread and shred that way and be as good as they can be in that realm.

45:35And I do think that that probably limits you from being the best offense in the NFL, but it pretty reliably gets them to top eight, which for them, I think is probably enough.

45:45Robert Mays: Yeah, I mean, they're most teams in the NFL do have to try to manufacture explosive plays living in the environment that we do now, right? If you're going to have play against all these teams that play a bunch of shell and try to take those explosives away, you do have to manufacture them. The Bengals don't really have to manufacture those plays. They weren't an explosive passing offense, if you look at just the overall numbers in previous years. But we were talking about this before we started recording. They throw the ball so much that even if the explosive play rate isn't similar to a team like Seattle last year, Seattle's explosive pass rate last year was extremely high.

46:25Robert Mays: They didn't throw the ball very often. And so if you actually stack up the number of explosive plays over the course of the season, I still think the Bengals are probably going to get enough of them. Over any given game, even playing the way they do, you're going to have enough one-on-one opportunities down the field to those guys that you can hit three, four explosive plays over the course of a game. When you combine those haymaker shots with how efficient the passing game can be because of the quarterback and how they're playing, I think that's an okay formula. I think ultimately that's an okay place to land, even if it wasn't the vision for the offense coming in.

47:02Yeah, I do wonder now. It's funny because, again, I said, like, they need to commit to it. They need to commit to it. And maybe it can still get better over the course of the year. But I just think with me, because we've seen them kind of dabble in this so many times before, and it's just never looked like the best way for the offense to function, kind of just feels like, all right, let's just screw it. Let's just go back to the way we play. Let's chuck it. I mean, we're talking about the last game where they're just throwing it up. The ball where Jamar Chase catches it over Derek Stingley, he's not open.

47:33He's never open. And it doesn't matter because you can just kind of do that. And so I think you're right that like them really crafting the offense to be as efficient as possible, remain ahead of the sticks, let Burrow see stuff. And then just three times a game, like, screw it. That guy's going to make a play. It's you would want better options than that. You would want better answers. But that's still a plenty fine way to go about it.

47:58Robert Mays: Looking at the Jags defense part of this game, it's been kind of a strange season. And when you look at like the efficiency number situationally for the Jags, they're actually bottom 10 in past defense success rate so far this year. But there are two things that have really lifted them on that side. They have four interceptions through three games. So again, they're getting turnovers. And the other thing is they lead the league in EPA per drop back on third down. And a lot of that is driven by how they're playing on third down. So they're playing man coverage at the second highest rate in the NFL.

48:29Robert Mays: The Jaguars are on third down. Only the Rams have a higher man coverage rate on third down. So teams are 8 of 20 throwing the ball against the Jags on third down so far this year. They're 3 of 11 when the Jags play man coverage. And they're only blitzing on like a third of those third down plays. So the man rate is the second highest in the league, but the blitz rate is closer to average, a little bit below average. and what's really stood out is the way they're playing man coverage and just how they're passing things off. They know where their help is. That to me is what's felt the most different about this team this year is that what really stood out last year is on third down, their cover zero, their blitz type of stuff was really impressive and then they felt like a really good zone coverage team.

49:14Robert Mays: How buttoned up they've been in man has been really, really notable and so it stuck out from the first time I watched them against the Browns, like some of the things they were doing, passing this stuff off. And they've just continued to do it over their first three games. And I'm glad you bring up the communication because that is like the secret sauce, actually, to a lot of the best man coverage teams is how they pass stuff off. And, you know, they pass stuff off to the rat or to the robber or to the single high safety, depending on just how they end up wanting to play and let that corner fall off and replace them.

49:44When you look at previous versions of the Patriots, when they were at their best at man coverage stuff, that's that has been the. That's what it reminds me of.

49:51Robert Mays: Yes, because the Patriots didn't blitz a ton when they played man. No, they did a lot of this stuff where it's a rat. It's a robber. We know exactly how to pass up, like where those zone coverage defenders are in the middle and how to use them to our advantage. That's the exact team I was thinking about when I was watching them play. We're those Patriots teams. And to me, the other recent example, the best version of the Lions defense with Aaron Glenn. Those guys were so, so good at passing off bunches and just making sure that they're communicating who's taking who the safety is driving down on stuff.

50:21And it's like, you do need corners who can just run with people and play man-to-man coverage. And the Jags guys are good enough at that. But it really is the communication in the defense. Guys trusting that stuff is going to get picked up. Because that's the other thing, too. Communicating is one thing. There's a clear trust in the defense that if I let this go, somebody's going to get it. And you can see in some other defenses, whether it's new systems, teams that are just not as good, they struggle. you end up with two guys in the same spot a lot of times because they're not confident that whatever they're passing off is going to go to the next guy.

50:52You just don't see as much of that with the Jags defense.

50:54Robert Mays: And I think an important personnel tweak that we've seen from them as they've really leaned into some of this stuff, they were trying to figure out the cornerback rotation early in the season. Remember, Travis Hunter didn't get a ton of snaps against the Broncos, but last week it felt like they had decided that Monterey Brown is going to kind of be the odd man out. He still plays, but they still have a deep defensive back rotation but right now their two top outside corners are travis hunter and jerry and jones and i think that makes sense if you want to be doing a little bit more of this stuff i agree because like monteric brown is such a funny player like last year he was awesome like like for given a guy who would like you know late round pick had not played a ton in his career he was awesome justifiably got paid justifiably justify he earned that contract but it's also one of those things where those guys who are not super talented, they are late round picks, are often winning in particular ways.

51:45And with the Jags last year, like you were talking about, it's a lot of zone coverage. It's a lot of being able to communicate and pass stuff off. It's a lot of playing with zone eyes. He's really good at that. He is not quite as athletic and like smooth in the hips as some of these other guys to play as much one-on-one coverage, especially on the outside. So it makes more sense that you have Jerrion Jones, who I think is a little bit better than that. And then the corner that you spent the number two overall pick on, who has truly special movement skills. Like the way that he can just whip his head around and close on stuff is phenomenal.

52:15And so I do wonder too, like this is the other reason I want them to just play more of Travis Hunter at corner for God's sakes and just let him be a defender. If so much of your defense is going to be about communication and being in the right spots and passing stuff off, give him the reps to do that. And so we don't have to worry about this by the time we get to January.

52:34Robert Mays: Bring it all back around. Why I think the man cover stuff is worth pointing out. so far this season, teams have played man 17.7 % of the time against the Bengals, which is like a bottom six rate. The Bengals have a 65 % success rate against man coverage. They're averaging 10.7 yards per play. So something's got to give. Something's got to give in this one, and I'm curious what it is. All right, let's get to our next one here. Rams at Eagles. This one's all you, buddy. What do you got for me? Yeah, we're going to stick on another offense where they're trying to go through that similar formation of we're trying to be more under center, we're trying to run the ball a little bit different, do all this play action stuff.

53:14I think they make for a funny matchup against this Rams defense where I think in theory, what you would want to do from a passing game perspective against this Rams defense is to throw over the middle, attack these linebackers, all that stuff. Eagles have not yet proven to me that they're willing to do that. They did it a little bit more in the Titans game. I think last week they were completely unwilling to do that. And so if we're still going to live in that world with the passing game, okay, then the run game needs to be something. And we saw some signs of life last week from them, especially in the first half where the wide zone stuff they wanted to do, some of the weak zone stuff they wanted to do, they were able to get it to pop because they were able to get movement on some of the edge players.

53:53I think against the Rams that's harder to do I do think that these guys are you know whether it's Josiah Stewart Byron Young I know they don't have Miles Garrett but all these other depth pieces that they have are good guys who can hold up on the edge give linebackers give the nickel give the safety's time to come up and fit and not give you those explosives and so I think they can get the Eagles into enough third and fives third and sixes third and sevens where it becomes a passing down and I just do not trust this Eagles passing offense right now to handle a Rams passing defense that has been really good obviously week one was disgusting but like Trent McDuffie has been awesome and can run with people in man-to-man they've been playing more man-to-man uh Quentin Lake has looked way better than he looked in week one I know that they're going to be without Watson this week but their depth corners I actually think are like pretty pretty good like better than a lot of other teams and so this to me just feels like all of this stuff the Eagles want to be or have struggled to to morph into it's a bad matchup I think against this Rams defense what's gonna be

54:54Robert Mays: funny because last year I remember AJ Brown just bullied those smaller corners on the Rams and well Emmanuel Forbes is probably gonna have to play in this game on the outside again right but AJ Brown isn't here and Devante Smith is a little bit banged up correct he is he I don't think he practice today as no practice Wednesday no practice report yet for as we record this on Thursday but no practice Wednesday it's you look at it size wise and I could make a joke about how that's actually a fair fight between Devante Smith and Emmanuel Forbes but then you look at Devante Smith who also just regularly dunks on people he shouldn't be able to outside the numbers and I'm not I'm not ready to make that joke like there's absolutely still a chance that if they want to play that way against Emmanuel Forbes even Devante Smith at that size can still do it Here we go, Zach Berman.

55:36No sign of Devontae Smith yet at practice.

55:39Robert Mays: And today is Thursday? Yes. Okay. That's tough. That's what the passing game has been so far. It's been all Devontae. And if it's going to be even a limited Devontae Smith, the way Trent McDuffie is playing right now and how willing they're letting him just run and match with people, play him in the slot if he's got to. They did that a lot with Jalen Waddell last week and just had McDuffie follow. They would do that, I imagine, against Devontae Smith. And I think people, too, would make the thing of like, well the Eagles dunked all over uh Trent McDuffie's Chiefs in the Super Bowl and it's like well yeah that was A.J.

56:11Brown that was not on that was not mostly Devonta Smith and so I do think again this for a lot of different reasons is a very good matchup for Rams defense get to our last one here

56:22Robert Mays: Cowboys at Texans we're going to spend some time with the Cowboys offense against the Texans defense But obviously some huge news last night. Joey Porter Jr. headed to Dallas for a 2028 second round pick. And then some other, it wasn't like a six round pick next year. I'm not really worried about that one. Which I think was also that pick had been involved in the Cowboys trade for George Pickens. So I always love when. That's funny. It reminds me of like the Bears-Bills trades over the last five years. Where all the same picks got shipped back and forth five times. We're getting to that point with the Cowboys and the Steelers.

56:54Robert Mays: your initial thoughts about how Joey Porter Jr. fits into this defense and what it potentially means for Dallas I mean my first thought actually was it didn't take as much to get him as I thought it was going to and maybe that's just because we're now at the point where you know if you trade for him in July it's like well he's going to get a full offseason with our team all this stuff he's going to be able to learn the defense very quickly all that stuff and so there's a little bit more incentive to like I think teams would be willing to ask for more I think now that we're a spot with the Steelers where we're a few weeks into the season the Cowboys are not necessarily going to get the best from him immediately the price came down a little bit and I thought it was actually a fair price for him I worry a little about a little bit about if he's going to ask for the same contract as like Christian Gonzalez I don't know if he's necessarily worth that but he's a much better corner than they've had and I do think that having a guy who can play a little bit of one-on-one on the boundary you know they're on the sideline they're not a huge man cover team but the quarter side of all the stuff that they're doing becomes man coverage it's it's all exactly what they did with quenyan mitchell in philadelphia it's the same stuff and it's a lot of even what like vic fangio had been doing way back in the day with like prince of mukamera just have like a guy who like when it becomes quarters he's just playing a lot of man coverage or what becomes match man coverage and i do think that porter is going to be good at that and so it was funny someone actually asked me earlier i think it was yesterday before the trade they were like if you could trade for any defender for you not any defender but it was like jordan brooks or joey porter jr and i'm like in my mind i you know i don't know if the dolphins were going to move off of brooks but in my mind brooks solves more problems i do still think porter does a lot for this defensive for this secondary yeah i i think that brooks solves arguably a worse problem in the sense that i think linebacker it's still the area of this defense i feel the feel the most scared of but i i think you can make an argument that by bringing in Joey Porter, you can solve more problems because I think that it allows you to patch maybe two holes at once.

58:52Robert Mays: One, it allows you to just change the way you can tilt coverage potentially, and that gets the most out of more of your DBs and more of your secondary. But also, I'm just curious what sort of shuffling this could potentially mean. If you have Joey Porter Jr. outside in one spot, and I know they're not healthy right now, but let's just play this out for when guys get back, and you want to move maybe Kobe Durant inside or you want to move Duran Bland inside, and that potentially can bring Caleb Downs back and have him play safety, even now, even when Durant is hurt, if you want to put Bland inside, you want to put Ravel outside, you want to put Kobe Durant back at safety while Jalen Thompson's hurt, I honestly think this allows you to potentially get better at multiple positions.

59:34Robert Mays: And when you look at how banged up the Cowboys' defense and secondary is right now, the chance to get better and upgrade at multiple positions is absolutely huge given the current state of this thing. I actually think that's a good argument because to me, the reason I would want to fix or I would have preferred Jordan Brooks is he fixes the spine of the defense and the spine of this defense sucks right now. But if you are moving Caleb Downs to safety where I think he's a better and like more natural player at safety, I think he's been fine at the nickel and he's done some decent stuff there. But in my mind, I think we've seen a lot of teams now going to these more, you know, the six foot 200 pound plus nickel bodies and trying to be like a guy who can defend to run a little bit and we can do all this stuff with him and on and yada, yada, yada.

1:00:19I don't think you really get the full value out of that sort of player unless you are using them aggressively, unless you're firing them like the Steelers with Jalen Ramsey, the Ravens with Kyle Hamilton, the Chargers with Derwin James. unless you're like weaponizing them. I just don't think you get as much value out of that. So why not have Downs back at what is a more natural position for him? And plus two, when Downs and Thompson are the two safeties, I think you can ask them to do more rather than Thompson and whoever else. It just feels you feel a little bit more static or just hoping the other guy doesn't make you wrong, basically.

1:00:54Robert Mays: By the way, I agree with everything you're saying. And by the way, my like, oh, this will fix multiple problems. And this is why it will work. and this is why I was worth doing. This is just insane cope for me. I just want to call that out in the moment. Like I'm having to believe in this because I've been given no other choice. It will be better. It's a matter of like, are they actually getting this to average or are they getting it to 22nd because it was going to be 27th? I don't think you understand, Derek, that this is going to solve everything about what's going wrong with the defense. This is the magic bullet.

1:01:24Robert Mays: This is the only thing they needed. Let's actually talk about the part of this game that we wanted to focus on and that's the Cowboys offense against the Texans defense. The number one thing you are watching with that matchup in this game is what? I want to start by saying that Dave was 100 % correct, that we were maybe a tad overreactive to the Texans defense and just what it was going to mean for their team. Like I watched back the Colts game. They were way better than it felt in real time. And we didn't think they were bad, obviously, but I like they really did feel more dominant for a lot of that game that I gave credit for.

1:01:56and I think there are a couple of interesting matchup things for this game. One, the Cowboys offensive line and run game has been pretty good and I think TJ Bass is actually even in this last game was better than I would have thought based on even his first couple of weeks of play but there are a couple of plays where the tackles just don't got it and really a lot even some of their tight ends especially when they're in 11 personnel and it's Jake Ferguson just don't have it against these edges, they're going to make you wrong in the run game. Like there was even a play early on in the second quarter against the Ravens where they have the tight end and the running back to the same side.

1:02:33It's like a third and short. They're trying to run inside zone. Mike Green is so fast across the tight ends face. They just lose in the plays over. You know, who's going to do that to you? Daniil Hunter and Will Anderson, like consistently every time. And so I do worry about their ability to win in some of those, I think, short yardage areas. The other thing to I mean, I want to talk about this a little bit. The Cowboys offense has obviously been really, really good this season. I think that what they're trying to do in the passing game is really good. The run game has come along and it's had its moments.

1:03:03I feel like Dak is a little bit stiffer and less precise as a passer than he has been in years past. And I do think against a Texans defense like this, that not being as perfect and on your P's and Q's is going to be a little bit of an issue.

1:03:20Robert Mays: Where have you seen that most? Like what types of throws make you say that? I just think some of the accuracy sometimes outside of the numbers has been a little bit. I think in general, when he's throwing the 10 to 20 yard area, he's throwing high a lot. And he's always kind of been that way where he's a little bit willing to just like let guys go up and get it. But I feel like it's been a little bit more pronounced this year. Maybe that's like all in my head and I'm like making it up. But I just felt like, especially in that Ravens game, he's throwing a little bit high, really making guys go up for it.

1:03:51There was even an outbreaker to CeeDee Lamb against the Ravens where he's trying to throw it to the right side. And he leaves it so high instead of like really throwing it on a line to the sideline and letting your player come back and run to it, that it kind of disrupts CeeDee's timing and he like goes up for it in a weird way and isn't able to bring it down. And so they're obviously still really, really good. I think that they're going to give the Texans some troubles in this game, and they can be explosive down the field still. I just feel like there are one or two throws a game where I'm like, I feel like at his best, Dak Prescott makes that throw more consistently.

1:04:25Robert Mays: And those intermediate throws, that's the area when I watched the Texans, down to down, they were excellent. It just, there was, the fact that the Colts were able to access that area of the field between the second and third level over the middle of the field four or five times over the course of that game, You just don't typically see that. And a couple of those plays, Kalen Bullock literally slips, which is the reason that that happened. I don't expect it to happen over and over and over again, but it's just an area we don't typically see teams able to access against the Texans. And so I wonder, can the Cowboys do that?

1:04:57Robert Mays: Because, and the other part, going back and watching the Cowboys game specifically from last week, the Cowboys are able to do a lot of stuff on like deep hook routes, deep comebacks, where the physicality of those receivers, you can just pin it on them, Seedy and Pickens can play that way. Against the Texans, those plays would feel like non-starters to me. Like, I think that you have to be attacking the area between the linebackers and the safeties, or you have to be attacking them over the top. Like, some of the things the Cowboys can typically lean on in those, like, underneath options to their guys because they're matchup advantages, they are not really matchup advantages in this game.

1:05:32Robert Mays: And so that's, like, the one thing they were able to do against Baltimore that I just don't know if they're going to be able to do in this one. I totally agree with that. Like, if you could hit, you know, five or six of those plays on an average defense, I think you only hit two of them against the Texans, where you're just like trying to pit it on the guy and make that work that way. The other thing that, and this goes back to what you're talking about, to me, I feel like the safeties are not driving on stuff as fast as they have previously in this defense. That's what feels the most different about this.

1:06:00Like Reed Blankenship is not as good as it. Bullock, I think, has not been great at it. Because honestly, what's funny, when you watch this defense in cover three, single high, they are still phenomenal they are still insane when they are in cover three which that's their bread and butter when they have been in some of these quarters and other too high stuff i think you're seeing the safeties not drive on stuff and why i think that's interesting with the cowboys specifically they play a lot of two by two like two by two 11 personnel guns spread it out a little bit that's where you can start to try to get those routes where we're running up the seam or we're running a dig that's gonna you know the safety is gonna have to go drive on i do wonder how many of those throws, those types of intermediate throws the Cowboys can make.

1:06:40Because like you said, the deep stop route on the numbers where Stingley or Lasseter can drive on it, I don't know, man. That doesn't seem like you're going to complete many of those. But if you're running him to the middle, to the hashes, and the safety's got to come down, those throws I do think that you can get some more of against this team.

1:06:55Robert Mays: That's exactly it. And I was talking to somebody who covers the Texans and talks about and thinks about this team all the time. They literally talk about that area in the middle of the field. They're called the kill zone. That's what the Texan defense calls that and like it has not been quite as deadly this year as it has been in years past like when we were talking about the texans defense that was it it wasn't that the texans defense is bad or disappointing it was that there's one specific element of that game that just felt a little bit different than it usually does when you watch the texans defense and that might be a one week aberration but you notice that difference and i think it's for exactly what you're saying those safeties think about all of the kill shots that calen bullock has dished out over the years coming down and driving on some of that stuff.

1:07:36Robert Mays: And it just felt a little bit different last week. That was it. It really did. And again, what's funny too, I feel like Reed Blankenship is not, like I said, driving on some of that stuff. He's not seeing it as well. But when they go to some of the Cover 3 stuff and he's just rolling down his Sky support, he's backside run support, all that stuff. He's awesome. Like when you get him moving already by design forward, he's really good for them. Them having him sit, I think, flat-footed and drive on stuff. It's just not yet as good as they want. I think I do still trust his coaching staff will get there eventually, but that area of the field, like you're saying, it's more open than it usually has been for this defense.

1:08:12Robert Mays: We'll see. It might not be this week. It might not be this week. It might be a one-week thing. You alluded to this. I am worried about the Terrence Steele versus Will Anderson part of this game. Dude. I am concerned. Watching Will Anderson against the Colts, he is— There are less than a handful of players like this in the league at a given time where you know he is a great player. And you turn on the film and he does something where you're like, what the f*** was that? He is an unbelievable player. Like the downs that he can win on. Like there was the Colts had a play where they had a tight end to his side on the line of scrimmage.

1:08:52And they run first and 10 on our center play action. And he takes the tackle head on. And so the tight end is like, well, I don't need to chip him because he's not going outside. So as soon as the tight end drops and it's like, I can get into the flat, Anderson hits the gas and he immediately strips sacks Daniel Jones. How many guys in the NFL can do that? Two? Three? Like, he is just. He's so absurd. He is an absurd player. I really do believe he might be the best player in the NFL, like, right now. Like, you know, Miles Garrett's hurt, and I think there's some stuff like that. With Miles Garrett hurt, I was going to say the exact same thing.

1:09:23Robert Mays: I think right now he is pretty clearly the best defensive player in the league. Like, he's unbelievable. What he can do against the run. And then he had a, just like, it was just a quarterback hit at one point in the first half. I paused it at the top of his, like the top of his rush. The flexibility that we're seeing from him now, that was one of the things people were worried about coming out. It's like, oh, is he a little bit stiff? Is that ultimately going to affect his ceiling as a pass rusher? There is no ceiling. He is, right now, he is playing at a level where with Miles Garrett hurt, I don't even think it's a conversation about who the best defensive player in the league is.

1:09:56Robert Mays: He's been ridiculous. Yeah, he and like the obviously eye test, like I said, insane. And I had looked this up yesterday. He leads. This is all per next gen. He leads the NFL in quick pressures among non Vikings players. The Vikings are kind of cheesing with the way that they play. I had to I had to include that. I think Cashman and and Dallas Turner were higher, but they're cheesing a little bit. But in terms of everybody else, he leads the league in quick pressures. he has uh 15 stops which is like tackles that are negative epa for the offense which leads all defensive linemen and in terms of pass rush he's the only player in the nfl who has at least three sacks and his average time to sack is under four seconds he gets there immediately and often and he's the best run defender in the league he's an unbelievable player absurd player all right let's take our next quick break and then pack and come back and chat a little sicko street we're a little bit different this week.

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1:12:38Robert Mays: i wanted to start sicko street with the biggest sicko in the nfl world that we found out about yesterday we need to talk about mike tomlin's minecraft situation this is sicko street he literally built sicko street in minecraft over a 12-year period he built sicko city he but yeah he built the sicko metropolis is what he did you've played minecraft before so i just want your i have never played and so this is all new to me but i wanted to talk about it because i was just blown away by the entire thing yesterday every new thing i learned about minecraft every new detail i learned about what this must have taken blew my mind even more as somebody who has played i just want you to walk me through what your impressions were of mike tomlin showing everybody this last night i mean and first of all in terms of the work This is hundreds, if not thousands of hours of sitting there and doing this.

1:13:34And because it's not just it's not just the finished product that takes a lot of time of like put getting all the right blocks, you know, all that stuff, making sure you're putting it down. You could clearly see that he was there was a lot of trial and error. He's talking about this with his son planning. Yes. He was like, oh, the lighting. And I had to figure this out. And then I had to learn to use this brick and all this like that stuff takes trial and error and scrapping stuff that you did and going back and redoing it again. And him and his son were joking about like the water situation and figuring out how the stuff mechanically worked in the game.

1:14:05Because honestly, games like Minecraft and similar to it where it's a building and stuff like that, the water mechanic is always just like how it flows and works is always like you have to do some trial and error. And so I just thought it was fascinating that it took that many hours. And I really, I think in a lot of ways, there is nothing in common with me and Mike Tomlin. Like just how stoic he was as a football coach, like all of this stuff. But him being like, I don't watch a whole lot of TV. I love to play video games and just escape and get into this. And I was like, yes, that's exactly like what it is for somebody like me where I'm like, it's just it's, you know, I think when we think of doing things with your hands, it's like building, it's workshopping, it's, you know, woodworking, all that stuff.

1:14:48But playing video games like is you are doing something with your hands and making something or progressing your mind at doing something at a skill. And I think that Mike Tomlin, like taking whatever he gets out of that from football and like reapplying it to something that he said was therapeutic. I'm like, that's beautiful. I love that.

1:15:08Robert Mays: Watching again, just the tone of the game, the music, what it looks like, him talking about the lighting in the ballroom of the boutique hotel he made. If your brain works a certain way, I can completely understand how that would be incredibly soothing and calming and therapeutic at the end of the day. And when it comes to having like a weird hobby, I've spent so many hours thinking about watches and building a watch collection, like so many hours. There is no way I could sit in judgment of Mike Tomlin. I just found it a shocking piece of information in part because we've known this man and have heard from him and about him.

1:15:46Robert Mays: And we think we kind of have an idea of who he is for like 20 years. and this just completely reframes like what we think we know about him it's fascinating i i just could not imagine that this person that we've spent all this time with can have this deep of a hobby and clearly just be capable of something that even people that are minecraft people that do this all the time just find a staggering achievement i was blown away by the entire thing It's crazy. It really is a funny like you just don't know these guys as much as you think. And I do think the other part of it that to me was beautiful was that he it didn't seem like had ever really played many video games before or like sought this out himself or whatever.

1:16:31It was something that he found his kids really enjoyed. And he was like, I'm going to take the time to like watch them and all this stuff. And he realized like, oh, this is kind of interesting to me. And he took an interest in it with them. And I think that being able to do that and spend that kind of time while you have all the rigors of being an NFL head coach, that to me, I thought was like, it was really meaningful. And I thought that it was really beautiful that he was able to like find some avenue to really connect and have that sort of time. I thought that that was awesome.

1:17:01Robert Mays: It's unlike any moment I can remember as somebody who pays attention to the league. Like the fact that collectively, like everyone who cares or thinks about the NFL was kind of on the Internet yesterday watching Mike Tomlin show show this off and having this collective just mind blowing experience was very cool. Like I've truly never experienced anything like it as somebody who thinks and talks and focuses on the league pretty much every single hour of every single day. So it was amazing. Let's get to a more traditional sicko street place. Ryan Flores is playing against the Dolphins this week.

1:17:34Robert Mays: that's juicy enough on its own the fact that this is his first game as a defensive coordinator going back and playing against miami considering how that thing ended now you're adding into it the vikings defense has looked like the scariest defense in football for the first three weeks and the dolphins it's in a way that's not even their fault don't really have a functioning nfl team right now there's a chance this gets extremely ugly i'm very worried that this gets ugly because Because, you know, obviously what's funny is that this is coming off of a game where I think last week was as ugly as it could possibly look for like any quarterback.

1:18:12Like obviously the way that Baker Mayfield played in that offense was terrible. I don't think that Miami is really any better equipped. Like their receiver talent is worse. And honestly, the passing offense is kind of to a point where when they get blitz or when they are kind of unsure of what they want to do, it's a lot of like, hey, man, we're just going to chuck it down the field. And I have kind of said that like the way to beat this defense is often to do that. But you do need the guys for it and you need the receivers who can go and win those balls. You need a quarterback who I think sees it really well and really quickly.

1:18:43And I think Malik Willis has actually like not been terrible given obviously the horrible circumstance he's been put in. But I just don't think of him as that kind of quarterback. This does feel like especially to given some of the offensive line stuff that this feels like a game that could really get away from Miami very quickly. I mean, I think the line is like 10 and a half, which it should be.

1:19:04Robert Mays: Yeah, it absolutely should be. And think about how much of a mismatch it has to be on one side of the ball to be a 10 and a half point line after watching the Vikings offense last week. Yeah, exactly. Just think about that. Because what is the line suggesting? The line is suggesting that the Vikings can win this game like 17 to 3, which is like, I think probably a pretty reasonable way for this thing to end. Yeah, this one I think is set up to be pretty gross. Another one that's set up to be just as gross. The reeling Los Angeles Chargers are playing against the Seahawks. Not just playing against the Seahawks, playing against the Seahawks coming off a loss with Julian Love coming back.

1:19:50Robert Mays: So as ugly as Vikings, Dolphins has a chance to be. I think this one might actually rival it. And this one feels uglier in the sense of like, like you said, we knew the Dolphins were not supposed to be a good team. The Chargers thing is like train wreck hard to turn away from level where we thought that this was supposed to be a really good team. And now they are running into what is the hardest part of their schedule. And I think why this game in particular feels like it could be dangerous. The Seahawks, and you've always laid this out really well when we talk about them, their defense, it suffocates you and it bores you and it makes you do all the check down stuff, kind of throw over the middle of the field, take some of these stuff.

1:20:28They don't give you the deep, like really plays where you can go and make an explosive. The Chargers, I think a lot of their issue, especially in the passing game, was some of the way that Justin Herbert has let some of these games get away with him. He starts pressing. He starts just chucking it down the field and pressing it into windows he's not supposed to. Well, if you're now playing against the defense that is the best that making you do that and getting that out of you I worry how many negative plays we're going to get in this one I just think it reminds me a little bit of just

1:20:56Robert Mays: what we saw from Drake May in week one and you're asking for potentially more of the same and and what has been already an ugly year for the Chargers I worry it's going to get even uglier by the time this week is over Pacific time zone practice reports coming in you guys so just to get back to what we talked about a little earlier Trent Williams practicing Mike Williams, side field. Mike Evans. Mike Evans. Okay, all right, all right. That's good to know. Brandon Cooks on the 53-man roster, so it won't matter. Well, last year, last week, they were doing with Jordan Watkins and whoever else was playing in that game, which was ridiculous.

1:21:31Robert Mays: All right, we didn't do this last week. I wanted to trot out one this week because there is a game that this is the way I wanted to attack it. I have a little bit of a take therapy for you, and for anyone who missed this in the week one preview, Whenever one of us has sort of, I don't know, an intrusive thought, something that we want to talk about in a welcoming, safe environment, we're going to spend a little bit of time doing some therapy about these takes. And mine today is about the Falcon Saints game. I think I believe in Michael Penix. On one game against the Packers? I think I believe.

1:22:07Already, okay.

1:22:07Robert Mays: I think I believe in Michael Penix. let's I'm not necessarily I do think that he has he has the arm talent that will let me believe in this but I wanted to I want to hear you talk through this why why are we already in on Michael Pettix after one game he was operating so fast in that game when you watch some of the anticipation how quickly that ball was coming out how cleanly he was seeing things and you combine that with the arm talent, I just think it's an incredibly exciting package of traits. The one thing we've always talked about with Penix is two things. When he gets pushed off his spot, obviously he is a stiff player in the pocket.

1:22:45Robert Mays: Like there's no denying that. That's going to continue to be the case. That is ultimately going to limit his ceiling. But if that's it, and because the other thing was his ability to push the ball and attack the middle of the field. They threw the ball over the middle of the field in that game. If you're going to get under center and use some play action and you're going to have tools that allow him to throw the ball to that area of the field consistently and efficiently, we're really running out of things other than injury that worry me about him. And I just think the way he played in that game on a short week, first start, hadn't been practicing that much, even if the Packers were instantly imploding.

1:23:26Robert Mays: I just thought how fast he looked in that game combined with just how talented he is as a thrower, I think I'm ready to believe in this. And I'm full, like to an extent, right? And I'm fully willing to admit, and I said this during the game, he is number one on my list, maybe with Cam Ward like slightly behind him, of guys I want to be good because it would be cool. Like I think he is number one because of how talented he is as a thrower. And so I fully admit that I am prone to wanting this because I think if he's good, it would be really exciting. But I think I'm in a spot where in a safe space surrounded by friends, I am ready to tell you that I believe in Michael Penix.

1:24:08I do want it to be good because if we had a quarterback who was, I don't even want to put a number on it, but if he's an above average quarterback playing with Drake London, Bajon Robinson, Kyle Pitts, it's like pretty good offense, man. If he can really be that consistently. I do think that while he was really impressive, obviously coming off the short week has not played in this offense. I think that was really impressive for his part. I do wonder from a defensive perspective, like they don't know what the offense is going to look like with you either. And so I do wonder like what defenses are, how they're going to adjust.

1:24:38And so I do think that because he looked as good as he did, and I do believe in the offensive infrastructure. Like I said that coming into the season, I was pretty high on, I think I had them like six or seven in the NFC in terms of supporting cast. The offensive line is, is what it is. But I do think that the play calling is good. You have one of the best running backs in the league. Drake London's really good, Pitts, all this stuff. I do think that they can operate at a level that is not elite offense, but like pretty good. And I do still think that I think I want to see the middle of the field throwing more, more consistently, more against more defenses, but he obviously has the arm talent to do it.

1:25:14And I do think that he already in some ways has proven a little bit more willing to change and grow there than some of the other guys I typically have this issue with. Jalen Hurts, Bo Nix, Joe Burrow to an extent, like those are guys that like were four or five, six years into a lot of their careers and they just have not moved off of that. You at least see Penix trying it a little bit more. And so I think I want to see that fully crystallize, but I do think that there is a path for him. I think I'm in a little bit more wait and see mode. I will say, and I said this actually coming off of last year, to me, it's pretty clear that he's like a NFL starting quarterback.

1:25:49To me, I'm wondering what the ceiling really is whether it's the eighth best quarterback or the 15th or 16th I think

1:25:57Robert Mays: that's where I'm a little bit curious to be clear if we're having a serious conversation I also men wait in C mode but I'm in a spot right where I want to be cautiously optimistic I want a way that I'm more just like cautious yeah because with some of these guys think about the conversation we had in the middle of the week just about how the timeline that where guys come along what you want to see from guys, there just aren't that many quarterbacks, period, who throw the ball like this. Like, there just aren't. And so I want to see a guy with this level of arm talent, it explodes out of his hand.

1:26:32Robert Mays: I want to see a guy like that find success. Because I just think it, the league is more fun if a guy who can play the position this way ends up being good. And so I think that's just why I'm rooting for it. And the last note I have about this, just this quarterback matchup in general, I find so exciting going back and watching that game against the Raiders. We didn't say it in the Raiders defense section, the plays that the saints made in the passing game in that game for the most part, not play action. They hit a lot of like spit the ball to the flat off play action, take advantage of some conflicts completions.

1:27:05Robert Mays: A lot of the pure drop back down the field completions that the Saints had in that game only happened because of Shucks arm talent and how fast that ball was coming out. Like he had to make a handful, five, six big boy throws on time in that game in order to take advantage of the Raiders defense. And so both of these guys, I think just play a style of quarterback that I find exciting to watch. And so the idea that coming into the season, maybe a Falcons-Saints-Tyler Shuck-Michael Panics matchup might not have seemed like the most exciting thing on paper. I am in a spot where this, to me, is one of the coolest quarterback matchups of the entire week.

1:27:49So Shuck, I'm closer to getting there, actually. I think stylistically, I have a couple of gripes with him. He still takes too many sacks, and I do think he has a weird combination of he takes too many sacks and I think that he also checks the ball down a little bit too much but the arm talent is undeniable with him I think he's a really good mover once he gets out of the pocket a little bit and I think the way that he sees it generally I know he's had a couple of picks this season but like some of those late in the game are like he's immediately getting smacked when they're down like some of that shit is going to happen and then I even said I think the week one interception he tried to throw to Noah Fant it's a choice right where him and the receiver just don't agree on where they're supposed to be and like that stuff is just going to happen early on in the season and so he's a player where I really believe in the arm talent the throws that he's willing to make like he can really test every single layer of the field he can throw middle of the field he can throw down the field his deep accuracy really is phenomenal and I think the way that he can test another like really one of my favorite arm strength tests actually is like can you throw especially in the red zone the like flat route straight to the pylon when you're on like the four yard line because the angle is so difficult it's so narrow that like you have to really spit that thing out there and Tyler Schuch can do that so easily and so the talent I'm really bought in on he's just a player where I want to see minor improvements and can we take one and a half percent less sacks and not check the ball down quite as much but I think that's just stuff that's going

1:29:19Robert Mays: to come with time I believe in him and the bozo plays like they're gonna there there have been a lot of bozo plays this year he's a young player he's a young player like guys both of these players and even if pen X the middle of the field stuff is what we need to see more of I love that both of these guys are from the far hash if you're playing one step further off than you should have it I can fit it in there both of these guys play that way and I just like watching quarterbacks who play that way yeah and they will throw it early they're not going to wait to see it like they will really that is the last thing I'll say that's really impressive to me about Shuck.

1:29:51I think mechanically and footwork-wise, he is one of the most impressive quarterbacks in the league right now. Like, I really think he's very buttoned up in the way that he operates.

1:30:00Robert Mays: Let's finish things off with what we want to know coming out of week four in the NFL. This one's simple for me. Can the Bears do it again? Can the Bears do it again? Maybe with a different quarterback. We still don't know who's playing quarterback for the Bears. So, I mean, last week, what happened on Monday is, said it in the moment, so confidence inspiring I just want to know can they do it again and the offense might need to do it again because the Jets defense or excuse me the Jets offense has been really good and really explosive like there is a chance that you have to put up points to match the Jets in this game based on what we have seen from that offense so far this year and so that's it can they do it again and then the other fun layer to this is we get Ben Johnson versus Aaron Glenn for the first time.

1:30:44Yeah, if we get a little bit of old guys coming back into their kind of coming back, you know, having been in so many meeting rooms together, now they've got to go do it on the opposite sideline. I think that that's really fun. I do think, yeah, like this, because the Bears probably don't win that the Monday night game if the Eagles offense looks alive at all. Like there were stretches where the Eagles offense looked alive. They throw the red zone pick and then everything kind of falls away for them. I weirdly don't. I have more faith in the Jets offense not doing that than I think I do it with the Eagles offense at some point like Geno Smith against some of these mediocre defenses has been really good this season and so they're they're gonna

1:31:21Robert Mays: make them earn it and that it's also something I'm curious what the Bears defense looks like the Bears defense has been it's been kind of all over the place you know the Panthers obviously had some huge chunk plays in week one it's a rainstorm in week two they had an awful first half against the Eagles last week and then they looked great in the second half and I do think that the Jets offense is just a much better test for where your defense is than we probably would have thought it was coming into the year so it just it's an intriguing game on a lot of different levels considering it's a Jets team we had no idea what to think about coming into the year and Caleb Williams isn't playing it's who would have guessed it but here we are what do you got what do you want to know coming out of week four in the NFL so I've got Panthers Lions and I swear I don't mean to be doing this bit two games in a row, but I was talking to our buddy Keegan Abdue from NextGenStats.

1:32:12So starting wide receivers and tight ends versus all defensive backs on the other team, we were looking at height differences. The Panthers... The Panthers offense, built of all skyscrapers, and this is assuming Jalen Coker will play, has a 5.2-inch differential on the Lions' DBs on average. almost a half a foot that is the third largest difference in a game in a decade and while i said that that is probably dependent on jaylen coker playing tremaine edmund or uh bright not tremaine edmund bryson bryson tremaine get it yeah getting a little bit confused there made edmunds would be

1:32:51Robert Mays: also a very big would also be very tall but they're about the same they're about six four and so like that's the other guy who would be playing for them and so like they have size in a way that you the size matchup in a way that you really don't see last week when I said it for Cardinals Niners I was like it's kind of a size thing it's kind of a physicality thing just the way that Michael Wilson plays and stuff like that no this is truly they are just going to be above the rim on you in a way that you're not going to be able to match and I just I'm curious to see how that goes poker practice today okay there we go practice but it sounds like he might be back and that's his music to Derek Sears all Derek wants to watch is big receivers against tiny defensive of backs.

1:33:30Robert Mays: All right. That is all we've got for today. If you're watching this on YouTube, our Thursday night recap is also live. Brown Steelers encourage you guys to check that out. Please, if you're watching this on YouTube, like subscribe. Our numbers tell us that a lot of you that are watching these videos are not subscribed to the channel. Please do. We've got all of the full-length podcasts coming to you over the course of the week, Monday and Thursday recaps. We have multiple YouTube specific film breakdown things that we're doing over the course of the year. I have a series. Derek has one. I did mine about Bryce Young this week, about what feels a little bit different about Bryce Young.

1:34:06Robert Mays: Derek, not surprisingly, did his about Brock Bowers. That should be available for you guys either right now or at some point later today. If you're listening to this on the podcast feed, obviously the Thursday Night Recap is available as well. So please check that out for now. That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you on Sunday. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

1:34:57is delivered.

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