Week 4 recap: Huge wins for Chiefs and Rams + Packers-Cowboys craziness highlight a loaded Sunday

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2:01Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, a jam-packed week four in the NFL. I'm recording this intro at about 1 a.m. Central Time. The day kicked off at 8.30 a.m. Central Time and really wasted absolutely no time. Steelers with a big win. We hit that and you have my attention. The Chiefs really kind of assert themselves against the Ravens in a game of two teams moving in divergent directions. Talked about that one. Hit the Sunday night game because the Sunday night game was absolutely wild. A 40-40 tie, probably not on anybody's bingo card heading into the day. Also made a big win for the Jags.

2:36Robert Mays: We did end up putting a team at the table as we tried to parse the Rams Colts and Bucks Eagles games. A WTF moment from the Los Angeles Chargers who gave up their entry and at the table, considering what they did against the Giants today. And then a whole lot more from week four with me, Derek Klassen, Dave Hellman. Let's get to that week four recap right now.

3:03Robert Mays: 15 hours of football today only fitting that on the day of the first europe game we get an overtime sunday night football game did we don't always hit the sunday night games on this show but today we have to what an absolutely wild and crazy day of nfl football and overtime sunday night tie

3:23Derrik Klassen: at the buzzer, Robert, after the Packers tried to bungle the game away. Just absolutely absurd ending to what was a pretty great day of football. And then we've talked about it before. Yeah, like you said, we try to we work ahead on the recap during Sunday night football. We know ahead of time that unless something crazy happens, we're probably not going to hit on it too deeply. I'm digging up fun stats from Jags Niners. I'm feeling really good about the work that I'm doing on everything else. And then we get a thousand yards of offense, 80 points. Dak Prescott goes thermonuclear. The Micah Parsons revenge game that kind of wasn't.

4:06Derrik Klassen: And a 40 to 40 tie in overtime in Dallas. Absolutely ridiculous.

4:13Robert Mays: Derek is joining us from California today, which meant he was up at 630 to watch the Viking Steelers game. I'm not sure how he's feeling right now. You had an expletive when we sat down at this desk in order to try to process what just happened in the Sunday Night Football game. What was the source of your frustration when you were doing that?

4:30Dave Helman: Do you think the Packers wanted to win the football game? Did they operate like a team that wanted to win the football game? They were playing for a tie at the end. They truthfully were. They were not operating like getting into the end zone would win them the game. They thought there would be a second overtime.

4:45Robert Mays: Dave said it in the moment, but it was very Eberflus 2024-esque in terms of how the Packers were managing that situation. Eberflus was there.

4:54Derrik Klassen: I know he was coaching the other team, but I was just like, is this Thanksgiving all over again? What are we doing?

5:01Robert Mays: The Packers very narrowly envoied an incredibly embarrassing national television moment by somehow getting that field goal off. But outside of that, outside of them nearly bungling that end of game situation, I think my biggest takeaway from this game, and I'm curious how you guys feel about it. Dak Prescott has been playing extremely well all season. I mean, this is not an aberration. He's been playing some of his best football over the first month of the year. And some of that is driven by some of the structural changes offensively. Their run game has been pretty good. He had two receiving options for a good majority of those first couple games.

5:35Robert Mays: But now CeeDee Lamb goes down. It's really just George Pickens. They got two missing starting offensive linemen on the interior. And he does this again, Dave, to a Packers defense that for the most part has been fantastic through the first three weeks of the season. I mean, right now we are watching some of Dak Prescott's best work. And above all else, that's probably my biggest takeaway from this game after the end of game stuff from Green Bay.

5:58Derrik Klassen: I covered the Cowboys for the first eight or so seven years of Dak's career. and I'm a little less willing to say it after such a bizarre ending but I think that was the best game Dax ever played I mean if you if we're just talking about and you didn't get the win I get that but with the problems that this defense was facing I'm not sure that's on him it's absolutely not I mean this is this is the second time the Cowboys have given up 37 plus points they give up 31 to the Bears last week Like, we'll get into them, but we saw what the Bears offense still looks like when they're not going against the Cowboys defense.

6:37Derrik Klassen: So this is horrendous. I mean, Green Bay put up 500 yards of offense in this game. And you talk about the offensive line was compromised. We knew that going in. Tyler Guyton left at one point in this game. You don't have CeeDee Lamb. And, I mean, the running game was good, but Dak willed this team to the edge of victory. I wish they had gone for it when they got down. that absurd throw and catch to Jalen Tolbert, which I said it to you in the moment, that never works out for Dak. Like very rarely does a receiver make a heads up play like Jalen Tolbert did. And the fact that it was Jalen Tolbert who did it in his star-crossed career, absolutely incredible.

7:18Derrik Klassen: But yeah, I mean, off the top of my head, he balled out in the playoff win against the Buccaneers, but that was a sub 500 playoff Buccaneers team. He was amazing against the Giants a couple of weeks ago, but we don't know how we feel about that team. They just benched the guy that was playing in that game, Russell Wilson. We view this as a Super Bowl contender, and he went toe-to-toe. I think it's the best game he's ever played as a pro, or certainly it's on a very, very short list.

7:44Robert Mays: Before that, Jalen Tober completion on the play before that in overtime, it was third and four. He checks a play, and the Packers run like a weird, funky, inverted cover two look where Carrington Valentine pops back into the deep half, and he just rips that essentially hole shot to George Pickens down the left sideline. Pickens had a monster game just picking on whoever was that second outside corner for where the Packers on that side of the field throughout the entire night. I mean, there were so many crazy plays in this game. Derek, I'm curious what your thoughts just about Dak today in general were, but the one that sticks with me, there was a play in the third quarter where the Packers brought like a big blitz.

8:18Robert Mays: It was a third and six and he throws like a fade away to the left side to Gavante Turpin to convert the third and six. There are just so many moments over the first month of the season, Derek, where he just feels completely locked into this offense, which is new. These receivers who, you know, he's still working with George Pickens for the first time over the last four weeks. Like what we have seen from Dak Prescott recently is some of the best football we've seen from him since he was playing like an MVP in 2023.

8:45Dave Helman: Yeah, I mean, I think the way that you get MVP caliber Dak Prescott is when you have guys who can win beyond 15 yards. And I think in previous versions of this offense, they just didn't really have that. whether it was trying to make it work with Brandon Cooks or, you know, earlier versions of Jalen Tolbert, who maybe weren't playing as well. And I think that they were struggling with a lot of that. Dak has always been a guy who I think in the one to 12 yard area, especially as like an empty passer, quick game spread is always going to be very efficient. But sometimes the offense was stuck only relying in that mode.

9:14Dave Helman: And when he tried to do this stuff down the field, it just didn't connect. Now with a guy like George Pickens, where he feels very comfortable unleashing that stuff. And obviously, whenever C.D. Lamb is healthy, it just feels like you can get everything out of the offense. And then now because they run the ball so well, they're just in better down and distances where it's not always third and seven. And it's, hey, Dak, can you check the play three times and get us into the right stuff and go make this throw into a tight window? Like he just doesn't. It's a mix of him playing well and things being slightly easier around him.

9:41Dave Helman: Not, you know, he still has to put up 40 points because the other, you know, his defense is not helping him. But the rest of the offense is helping him more than it has in a couple of years.

9:48Robert Mays: How do we feel about the Packers coming out of this game? Are you a little bit more worried about the Packers, just the state of what's going on there, than you were coming into this? Are you worried about the defense at all after a game like this? For me, it just feels like, again, you watch where a huge portion of that production was coming from. They picked on Nate Hobbs a bunch, whether it was Pickens, the touchdown to Jake Ferguson. He's the number one receiver running like a little short post bender. They pick on Nate Hobbs on that play. They got Valentine a couple times. I mean, that second outside corner spot is probably, if you're looking at just one through 11, and the weaknesses of the Packers defense, the one spot where maybe you're a little bit worried about it.

10:22Robert Mays: And so maybe this turns up the volume on that a little bit, but I'm tempted, if not to completely wave it away, then just to kind of come to a conclusion where Dak Prescott is playing an extremely high level. The Cowboys offense has been one of the most efficient units in the league. You know, this is a game that happens when sometimes you're playing a quarterback who is as red hot as Dak Prescott is right now.

10:41Derrik Klassen: I think the thing that would bother me if I was a Packers fan is why is that cornerback liability there to be taken advantage of? It's because the superpower of this Packers team after trading for Micah Parsons is that this pass rush is supposed to be unwithstandable. I don't know if that's a word, but that's what they're supposed to be.

11:00Robert Mays: We're on hour 15. We're good to go.

11:02Derrik Klassen: There's going to be a lot of fake words today. Exactly. I watched three windows of football today. But yeah, they're supposed to be unblockable. Micah Parsons had seven pressures in a sack in this game. It's not like he was completely neutralized. But again, remember, starting center, starting right guard are out for the Cowboys. The tackles haven't been great all year. And Tyler Guyton goes down. I think it was either at the end of the fourth or overtime. Dak Prescott was pressured 24 % of the time, which was seventh best in the league. If you told me that Dak Prescott would be that clean in this game, I straight up, I wouldn't have believed you.

11:36Derrik Klassen: And that's not to say Micah Parsons would have done it all by himself. But the Packers were just supposed to have those sorts of horses. So and it's only one game and Dak is playing out of his mind and has been all year. But that is supposed to be like the engine of this team and has been in their best moments. And it feels a little harsh to say that they didn't show up, but they were supposed to be a real strength in this matchup. And credit to Dak, credit to the Cowboys. And they had a phenomenal plan for not letting the pass rush take over this game. And it worked.

12:09Robert Mays: I think why it's tempting to focus on Dallas right now is that we knew the Cowboys defense was bad. The Packers should score 40 points against the Cowboys defense. The most surprising thing and the thing that element of this game that I think snuck up on us, Derek, is that I just did not expect the Packers defense to give up 40 points to the Cowboys, even if that unit had been playing well for the first three weeks of the season.

12:27Dave Helman: I expected the secondary to make a few more plays. I will say it comes down to like I think they were so good the first three weeks because the defensive backs were consistently able to trigger early on stuff and kind of gamble in a way because they knew the pass rush was going to be so good. And obviously in this game, it wasn't part of that was like Micah Parsons did leave for a little bit, like in the middle of the game and then came back. And, you know, I think that had some element of it, but also their interior D line. They were missing a bunch of guys. I think Devonta Wyatt left in this game and they were just gassed by the end of it.

12:56Dave Helman: Like they just didn't have bodies. And so you weren't getting any interior pass rush. And I think it was a little bit easier for Dallas to like spread their, you know, pass protection resources, helping the edge and allow Dak Prescott to step up into pockets and make those deeper throws that he wanted to.

13:10Robert Mays: Let's get to the other big game from today that we want to talk about at the top of the show. Just a reminder, there are a few games we're not going to talk about. We're going to hit those on the Monday hangover show that we do tomorrow. We thought Sunday night football might be one of them, but we absolutely had to talk about that game in the moment. But just a reminder that there will be a couple. We'll talk about those at the end that we'll hit on the hangover show tomorrow. But the game we were planning to lead off the show with before that Sunday night football craziness happens. The Chiefs beat up on the Baltimore Ravens.

13:38Robert Mays: The Chiefs go to two and two this year. The Ravens fall to one and three. I think a couple of just main takeaways from this game was that right now the Ravens just look so out of sorts in the same way that they had last week against the Lions. I think a lot of what we saw today was a carryover from that game offensively and defensively. We can get into some of that. But the other encouraging part of this is that the Chiefs offense with Xavier Worthy back in the lineup hits a little bit of a stride today. And I felt like that was the game you wanted to see if you were a Chiefs fan, because the entire rationalization over the first few weeks was when we get the pass catchers back, we're going to see a different version of this Chiefs offense.

14:17Robert Mays: And I think today was an example of them taking a step in the right direction, considering what we had seen over the first three weeks.

14:24Derrik Klassen: I said it on the preview show that I think the Chiefs have more reason for optimism because there's reinforcements coming. I didn't see Xavier Worthy having a 120 scrimmage yard day right off the bat. But that's that's what you're hoping for as he gets healthier and healthier. He said after the game, like he took his first hit and felt fine and knew he'd be OK from there. you're getting closer to the Rasheed Rice return date Josh Simmons was maybe not outstanding but just continuing to get better and yeah like the I really think the Chiefs that we see in another month month and a half are going to look vastly different from the the version we saw over the first three weeks and maybe even in this game I mean Xavier Worthy was fantastic I went back and I picked out three plays where just the threat of Xavier Worthy opened things up for other guys.

15:16Derrik Klassen: Hollywood Brown's touchdown. You see the Ravens keying on Xavier Worthy in the flat. You see him clearing out space for guys like Travis Kelsey with some of his downfield routes. And yeah, there's an element of speed and explosiveness to this Chiefs offense for a change. And it was fun to see.

15:31Robert Mays: Derek, when I'm watching the Ravens right now, they just look out of sorts to me, offensively and defensively. We talked about this in the Monday Night Recap after watching them play against the Lions, but I just feel like Lamar is playing a frantic brand of football right now that we just did not see from him last year. And when they were, when they had their issues later in seasons, when they would run into problems in the playoffs, it feels like we would get this version of Lamar Jackson where he's trying to do a little too much. It leads to turnovers in inopportune moments. And again, there's just an antsiness to the offense.

16:10Robert Mays: And the funny part about this, and Derek, you and I talked about this on The Hangover this week, is that the Chiefs offense felt like this over the last couple weeks, where Mahomes is kind of bailing from pockets, and he looks a little bit uncomfortable, and there are guys open in progressions, he's not taking throws. And I felt like the Chiefs offense, and there were a couple of moments I want to talk about specifically, kind of settled down today where that franticness continued from the Ravens offense and came back to bite them again while their defense continued to have the lapses that we've seen over the first few weeks.

16:41Dave Helman: Yeah. And like, I don't mean this as an excuse. I just mean this as like a way to, I think, frame why Lamar Jackson is playing this way. I think it's partly because he realizes the defense is going to put him in a lot of these positions. Like to me, I think if you look at the first drive the Ravens had, they were in a lot more under center pistol. They were running the ball. They looked like the Ravens last year. Like they looked like that's how the offense was functioning. They had they hit like a play action screen to get Justice Hill into the end zone. It looked like a very put together, balanced offense.

17:08Dave Helman: And then as the game started to devolve a little bit and they realized, OK, their defense was going to start giving up a ton of horizontal stretch and the Chiefs were going to get their explosives. And this was going to start to be a shootout. You felt the Ravens kind of abandoned some of that run game stuff. And their run game hasn't been that good this year comparatively, especially compared to last year. And I think they've gotten to a lot more pure spread, almost the way that like the worst versions of Greg Roman's offenses looked when they went into like pure past stuff. And I think we've gone a little bit back to that.

17:34Dave Helman: And Lamar is playing more like it's all fourth and eight in the fourth quarter. And he's just hunting for these constant explosive plays. And you mentioned that in the Browns game a couple of weeks ago. And it felt like that again in this week. And, you know, obviously, when you're going up against Spags, it's an even tougher challenge.

17:51Robert Mays: It was a drive when they were down 7-3 early in the game. And I think it's the first play of the drive. And they have a high low to Hopkins. And Hopkins is coming open on the in-breaker. And he's wide open. And Lamar turns it down and ends up taking a sack when he tries to scramble on that drive. I think that drive finishes, I'm trying to comb through my notes here, with him throwing that pick to Chennault, trying to throw the ball up the right sideline to Andrews. And again, it just feels like the offense is sped up in a way that they just never felt like they were last year. And I think partially that's because we're seeing more pass protection issues for the Ravens offense than we saw when they were really humming last season.

18:29Robert Mays: So I looked up the numbers because I was just curious. There were several moments in this game where Bolton's coming unblocked. They had a stunt with Amenahu where he's coming unblocked. The Ravens last year had a 7.5 % quick pressure rate per next-gen stats, which was the best rate in the entire league. so far this year, Dave, it's at 14.5%. So we're seeing quick pressure for the Ravens offense at twice the rate we did last year. And I think that is leading to some of this uneasiness that we're seeing from Lamar in the pocket. And it's leading to more of the mistakes that we've seen over the last couple of weeks.

19:02Derrik Klassen: Like really uncharacteristic mistakes. Like the sequence, it was when the game was still in reach. Like two delay of games and a very strange intentional grounding call. He could have thrown that away in a manner where he doesn't get the flag and it just looked like an incredible lapse. Threw low on a throw to Justice Hill. They had a big play set up to pop on the screen to Derrick Henry, and Chris Jones got in the way of the throw. But again, just uncharacteristic mistakes and leaving plays out there that you just typically don't see. at least not on Lamar's end. Like, usually I'm here talking about receivers dropping balls or miscommunications, but this was a lot of quarterback-inflicted error.

19:51Robert Mays: There was a 4th and 1 with 3-0-1 left in the second quarter that, to me, was like the turning point in the game. The Ravens had a 4th and 1. They don't have any threat of the run on that play, which, to me, is just another one of those things. Like, you need one yard. Are we in a place where the Ravens' offense doesn't think they can get one yard on the ground, even with some of their struggles? So far this year running the ball, that seems like a pretty damning example. But on that play, the Chiefs run a zero blitz. Bolton comes almost untouched. And Lamar just heaves a desperation throw down the right sideline when he has Wallace sitting there on the left side wide open if he wants it.

20:28Robert Mays: And you contrast that, Derek, to me. And again, this is where I felt like there was an unsettled feeling to the Ravens. And I think the Chiefs were in complete control. on the very next drive, the Ravens run a cover zero blitz on second and 10. Mahomes just trots back in the pocket a little bit and he floats that ball for Kelsey on like a chunk gain. And then the next, later on that drive, the Ravens run another cover zero blitz and Mahomes finds Kareem Hunt in the flat on third and six and it sets up the Pacheco touchdown for 20 to seven. That to me was very indicative of like what these two offenses felt like in this game.

21:06Robert Mays: where the Ravens have a fourth and one against cover zero. Lamar panics, makes a terrible decision, makes a rough decision, turn the ball over. Chiefs come back, they face it twice. Mahomes feels like he's in complete control of those situations. And that has happened a lot in the postseason. It's happened a lot in high leverage moments where these offenses had those individual feels. And we got back to that place again today. And that's just a little bit surprising to me based on what the Ravens have felt like for the last 20 games that we've seen from this offense. It feels like a step back for them.

21:38Dave Helman: It does feel like a step back. And again, I think it's all the like surrounding factors around Lamar. It's again, the offensive line, the quick pressure stuff. He is. I think Lamar is a great player, obviously, and like when he gets pressured, he still made it. He still played a relatively good game, to be clear. It's just like he's not playing up to the level that he was as an MVP last year. But he is a guy I think when you consistently speed him up, he's going to start trying to make the biggest play on the field. And I think that you saw that today. Whereas again, by the time Mahomes makes that cover zero throw to Kelsey, where he lobs it over to that left side a little bit and just puts that beautiful ball, by the way, it was one of the best throws of the day.

22:14Dave Helman: Like it was just like it's such a weird angle, like going from, you know, to the right, to the left like that. But that was such a good throw. And by that point in the game, to me, it felt like Mahomes was very comfortable with the rhythm of the offense. I think he trusted that they could get explosives without him being a superhero. And he was like, you know what? I can just play my game. I can play with a little bit more confidence. I don't feel like I have to rush things. And I think that allowed him to settle into the game a little bit more. And I think you saw that from the Chiefs offense almost immediately.

22:41Dave Helman: A lot of Brashard Smith in this game, they really tried to get him going because he's obviously a much quicker, more explosive player than their other backs. And then again, having worthy, not just the vertical stretch that Dave was mentioning earlier, but the horizontal stuff, you know, they hit him on an end around on a fake counter play. I think they had another horizontal play for him. And then obviously he's just like even just using motion with him across the field is just getting him into the mix on top of Hollywood Brown being back on top of like Travis Kelsey still looks really good when he wants to.

23:09Dave Helman: And I think he certainly did in this game. So it's it's really starting to come together. I kind of agree with Dave. I think in a month's time, this is going to start to look pretty good.

23:17Derrik Klassen: You know what really stands out to me about this game is that, and like the Kansas City Chiefs obviously don't need to make a statement to anybody, but we've talked several times about how the Ravens make statements in games like this where they just beat the brakes off of somebody in a big spot and it sort of informs how you feel about them. They're one of the only teams in the NFL that's never on the other end of this. This was the Ravens' first multiple possession loss that Lamar Jackson has started since 2021. And I believe it's the only or it's the second largest margin of defeat for them since like in at least three or four years.

23:57Robert Mays: I will say some of that is the aesthetics at the end of the Lions game because this is the second straight game where I think that they have been dramatically outplayed.

24:04Derrik Klassen: Even that, but is a weird place to be. You're still talking about a team that's not used to losing by three possessions. It's only the second ever three possession loss in a game that Lamar started in the last five or six years. I mean, that is an incredible run of competitiveness. Like you just don't see this team get their teeth kicked in on a regular basis. So like it's not so much about the Chiefs sending a statement. We know how good they are. It is a statement about where the Ravens are that this happened to them because it just doesn't happen to them very often when Lamar Jackson's healthy enough to start.

24:37Robert Mays: The last thing I wanted to point out on the Ravens offensive side of this game is that the fumble that Lamar Jackson has and then another sack that he takes about halfway through the third quarter when they were down 27 to 10, Derek, the same exact idea that the Lions were trotting out in that Monday night game. The Chiefs used multiple different times in this game where it's a quasi four man rush. They have a linebacker mugged up on the line of scrimmage, stays on the line of scrimmage while you have the three man rush from everybody else. Essentially, baits Lamar into thinking he has a window to take off in the middle of the defense.

25:12Robert Mays: And then he's running right into whoever that linebacker happens to be. And I think it was Chanel a couple of different times in this game for the Chiefs. And so it clearly, there are things that teams are picking up on about, all right, what can we do to this team to get them into that frantic mode where he's trying to maybe make a play outside of himself? Two weeks in a row, we saw the same thing. A cool little part of this is that I, I would almost guarantee you if it didn't happen this week, it'll probably happen after this. Steve Spagnuolo is like a mentor of Kelvin Shepard's. And so for Steve Spagnuolo to take one of these ideas that Kelvin Shepard dropped or trotted out last Monday for the Lions, that's just a cool little full circle moment for those two.

25:55Robert Mays: But again, I think it points to one of the issues that the Ravens offense is currently having right now.

26:02Dave Helman: Definitely, because I think it plays into both things of what you mentioned earlier with a lot of the quicker pressures. And obviously when you're rushing like three and a half, you're not necessarily going to get quick pressures, but you believe that you have a better, yes, you have a, you believe you have a better ability to crush the pocket with just three and a half guys and kind of have that spy in a way that like, if you did that last year, not that they had the best offensive line in football last year, but you probably didn't have as much faith that you were going to be able to actually collapse the pocket and get him to speed up.

26:28Dave Helman: Now I think that you do. And I think that's where a lot of that stuff starts to come into play.

26:32Robert Mays: The worthy part of this, I think is twofold. I think that there is an element of this, that you really did feel the difference for the chiefs offense. The The eye candy that he's creating with some of the motions is a really good example. But this cuts both ways. Some of this is Xavier Worthy and some of this is the Ravens defense just being a complete and utter mess right now. The two chunk plays down the field to Xavier Worthy. The first one down the right sideline, Dave, Worthy comes in motion. Marlon Humphrey's kind of like jogging to get out there with him at the end of the play. And then the ball is snapped and Worthy, who is maybe the fastest man in professional football, runs right by him for a huge chunk gain.

27:11Robert Mays: And then the one down the left sideline, I showed you the replay of the All-22 when we were sitting here in the office.

27:17Derrik Klassen: The type of thing you have to call somebody over to rewatch with you. Chidobe Awuze gets spun like a top

27:23Robert Mays: by Xavier Worthy on that play and just falls in a comical way. Worthy's wide open down the left sideline. And you combine that with Roquan Smith leaves this game. And so you got a combination of Trenton Simpson and Teddy Buchanan trying to deal with like a high low to Taequann Thornton. It just, the Ravens defense feels so completely lost right now in a way that's kind of mind-boggling considering how much earned equity the Ravens have on that side of the ball over the last like 10 years.

27:52Derrik Klassen: Roquan, Marlon Humphrey, and Nate Wiggins all left this game. And we know they put Nnamdi Matabike, they officially put him on IR over the weekend. So whatever the future holds for him, it'll be a minimum of four games before he can do anything. Like where again, like we said it in the previous show, like where where's the optimism coming from? Where are the reinforcements? What is going to make you feel better about what the Ravens have put on the field, particularly on defense? I still have plenty of reason to think the offense can can click itself back into gear. But it's very troubling when you see this stuff.

28:27Derrik Klassen: And again, and Xavier Worthy definitely helps. But and you saw Chiefs fans talking about this on social media on Sunday. Like this was the most enjoyable the Chiefs offense has been in literal years. It's their highest yardage total of this season. And it's their highest point total since when Taylor Swift went to her first game. Remember when they beat the Bears 41 to 10? I really do remember that. Yes. We're talking multiple years since the Chiefs offense was this explosive and productive.

28:57Robert Mays: We knew coming into this game that we would have divergent feelings about these teams coming out of it. We'd feel a lot worse about the team that was sitting at one and three and maybe a little bit better about the team sitting at two and two. I probably didn't expect it to be this stark, though, where you feel much better about the Chiefs because those reinforcements are coming. And now we're getting to a place with the Ravens where a little bit of cause for concern. Maybe you can explain away the first two losses because one of them is to the Bills. One of them is to the Lions. Both really, really good teams.

29:25Robert Mays: This is, to me, the most troubling performance we've seen from them.

29:27Derrik Klassen: I'll be honest. I thought heading in, I thought the Ravens would win this game and I would be like, well, the Chiefs have a lot of reason to like they're they'll they'll be better later when they get these guys back. And the Ravens still have some things to figure out, but they're good enough to win this game. Obviously, I was dead wrong. And now I'm like, oh, well, the Chiefs are ahead of schedule toward being the team I thought they could be. And I don't know what the hell the Ravens are going to do. All right. Before we move on, let's take a quick break.

29:57Robert Mays: Thy ticket. Lady Jennifer of Coolidge. Well, many thanks, good sir.

30:02Dave Helman: Heareth my Discover card. They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs? Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Getteth with the times. With the times?

30:15Robert Mays: You're playing the lute. Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?

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31:32Robert Mays: Before we go to you and my attention today, we made a decision coming into this game that we were going to put a 10th seat at the table by the end of the week four Sunday slate. For those of you guys who are unfamiliar, we did an exercise coming into the season where we put 10 teams at the table of real deal Super Bowl contenders. We agreed that over the course of the year, we could remove teams and put others on. And when you were removed, you were done. We took the Texans off the table last week because of the issues that they still are having in some form. But we didn't feel great about putting a team on there.

32:08Robert Mays: A couple of the candidates that we had coming into today were the Colts and the Bucks. So I want to talk about those two games first. And then after getting through those, we can have a discussion about who we think belongs to the table, either one of those two teams or another team. Let's start with the Colts and the Rams today. The Rams beat the Colts 27 to 20 in a very exciting game that again went down to the wire. Some really nice moments from the Colts offense again in this game, some self-inflicted wounds that ultimately did them in. Derek, you're watching this game with the Colts and the Rams today.

32:41Robert Mays: What are your main takeaways? Like when you can, when you sit back and you think about this game tomorrow, what do you think is going to be the first thing that comes to your mind?

32:48Dave Helman: I mean, I think that even though they lost this in a lot of ways was still proof of concept for what the Colts offense wants to be like. I thought the interior of their offensive line actually looked pretty good. I think the tackles, especially obviously at the end when Jared verse, you know, gets that, you know, kind of almost strip sack and tries to end the game there. It looked a little bit rough, but I thought the interior generally looked well. Obviously, Daniel Jones throws the pick on the first drive, tried to throw a second one to Cam Kitchens on the next drive who drove on like this inbreaker incredible play by him um and so he i think previous versions of daniel jones maybe would have made those mistakes and really like crumbled into himself and just played a really bad game from there but he kept swinging and like really made a lot of good throws after the fact um some of them like on just play action shots but also some of them having to hold the ball a little bit and kind of create for himself and so i think there was a little bit of proof of concept of like okay our quarterback's not going to completely collapse if things start to snowball out of control early and then Tyler Warren man it was just like he catches everything around him and I think that you saw this in this game like the the honestly my favorite catch that he made I think got called back for a penalty that was like near the red zone he ran like a corner out up to the right side and just snags it like he's just he has this ability that if the ball is near him even though I you know the whole thing with him coming in was oh short arms but it's like if he get if he can get his hands on it it stays in his uh it stays in his chest so I think proof of concept on that side of the ball.

34:07Dave Helman: And then on the other side, like to me, it was just every time you got Puka Naku on Xavier and Howard, that was, it was exactly what you thought it would be.

34:16Robert Mays: I think that's a fair read on it because that was with the Colts defense specifically. I think that's exactly what my takeaway was. We'll get to the Puka game. Puka was an absolute monster in this game, but whoever it was, and sometimes it was Xavier and Howard. Sometimes it was Makai Blackman. Makai Blackman falls down on that 88 yard two, two out while touchdown. And so whoever the non-Charverius, and obviously Kenny Moore misses this game, so Mekhi Blackman's in the slot on that play, and Mike Kilton had to play in this game for the Colts a decent amount. So whoever the non-Charverius Ward corners were for the Colts in this game, that is a problem.

34:46Robert Mays: And even when Kenny Moore comes back, that second outside corner spot is among this entire Colts roster, the spot I'd be most worried about holding them back if this is going to be a playoff team. And right now, they look like one, Dave.

34:58Derrik Klassen: this was a borderline perfect game of football and I don't mean like anybody like the performances or like this is going to be like the most memorable game ever but this is this is what you want in like an entertaining game this is my favorite game of the day like plenty of offense Matthew Stafford throws for 375 we get a 90 yard touchdown at the end but the defense has made plenty of plays on their own I mean the whole third quarter the drive chart for the third quarter is hilarious considering the yardage totals. Punt, fumble, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, before we get the offenses back on track in the fourth quarter.

35:34Derrik Klassen: Like the Rams pass rush, they did a better job pressuring Daniel Jones than the Broncos did. They had a higher pressure rate in this game, 48%, one of the highest in the league for the week. Daniel Jones threw a couple picks, but he battled back. It's the perfect blend of offense and defense, because like 40 to 40 in overtime with 1 ,000 yards of total offense, It's a little it's a little unbalanced, you know, but but the offense has showed up in this game. You get a couple crazy swings like the A.D. Mitchell letting go of the football at the goal line. The A.D. Mitchell holding on a 53 yard Jonathan Taylor touchdown.

36:10Derrik Klassen: There's just enough intrigue. I was I was riveted by this game the entire day. I didn't want to look away because I was I was so impressed by the totality of what the Rams were doing. I was really impressed even even with a couple regrettable interceptions I was deeply impressed by Daniel Jones again with a lot of pressure a good pass rush in his face on the road I know SoFi is not the most inhospitable environment in the NFL but it's still a road game the Rams running game got going really well in this game I just I was entertained from beginning to end and I came away thinking if AD Mitchell makes one less boneheaded play this might go the other way yes I am really worried about whoever has to play cornerback whether it's Zavian Howard or somebody else but my guy got targeted 10 times Matthew Stafford didn't target anybody else on the Colts more than five seven catches for 110 yards and a touchdown like there are there are warts on the Colts and we probably thought that there would be but they went toe-to-toe with what we think of as a Super Bowl contender and I just I had a fantastic time watching it two interceptions Brandon Jones, the last one's on the final drive.

37:18Robert Mays: I mean, he's attempting a whole shot when they're done a touchdown.

37:20Derrik Klassen: Yeah, you're trying to push the issue there.

37:21Robert Mays: So the first one's on to A.D. Mitchell on a big, a big crosser. I'd be curious what that ball looks like to Alec Pierce. Well, the way Alec Pierce can actually make a play on that ball where A.D. Mitchell kind of sat back and let Cam Crowell go up and be the one who high pointed it. But then you have the A.D. Mitchell fumble on what should have been a touchdown. You have the A.D. Mitchell holding call on what should have been a Jonathan Taylor touchdown. And the other two kind of quiet moments, I think were really big in this game against the Colts. They have two offensive pass interference penalties in Rams territory that ultimately lead to field goal drives instead of them being able to try to score touchdowns.

37:50Robert Mays: And so the margins in this thing are pretty damn thin with the Colts really having a ton of chances to win this game. The reason they didn't is the 2-2 out well touchdown and then essentially what Puka Nakua did over the entire game. So Puka finishes this game with eight receiving first downs. Okay? There have been 35 games since 2023 that have included eight receiving first downs by one player. Puka has four of those 35 games. The only player who has more is Jamar Chase. He is ridiculous right now. And the craziest part is he's doing a little bit of everything. Like the little sluggo he has down the left sideline, he's doing it on vertical routes.

38:34Robert Mays: And then the two-play sequence when he scores the touchdown, the play before he scores the touchdown, he takes a third and 13 screen to make it fourth and two then there's another play earlier in the game where it's second and 16 and he gets 17 yards on a screen and davante adams scores on the very next play like what he is able to do in every facet of the game right now derrick is absolutely ridiculous and he needed to be a superhero in this game for the rams to win and he is and like there

39:05Dave Helman: was i even remember not even just the receiving stuff there was i think it might have been the first run of the game him and like Tyler Higbee just blow the edge player uh off the ball like he just he truly does everything for them like the the deep ball he gets off the left sideline they have him lay out lined up as the number three receiver they motioned him out to get him on Xavier Howard and then they hit him on the deep ball which like Pukunokua can win the ball in the air but typically was not like a super vertical receiver I think earlier in his career but I think he's developed that skill they hit him on a corner route where I think they threw it into a cover two shot over on the right sideline at some point.

39:38Dave Helman: You mentioned all the screens that he runs. He is probably to me like it's funny that the other player you just mentioned in this was Jamar Chase. Him and Jamar Chase, if you just throw a perimeter screen, are probably the two scariest people in the world to me just because of how they're built, how powerfully they move and they're just feel for space. That's the other thing that really amazes me about Pukinokua on that corner route I mentioned where he catches it over the right side. He knows the safety is going to come hit him. And like he just has this incredible ability to go for the ball right next to the sideline, bring it in very comfortably, turn his head as he's in the air, trying to get his feet down, know that the safety is going to hit him and protect the ball.

40:14Dave Helman: Like to do all that in a second is just he just he has an amazing just sense for space on a football field.

40:22Robert Mays: The other guy I wanted to point out on the ramp side of this, that just one or two moments every single game where I'm like, oh, my holy shit. Jared Verse gets the strip sack. I figured you were going to say the best play. of my favorite play of this entire game is Jared verse lining up with a five yard head start and just steam rolling Tanner Bordellini and then doing the Dennis Rodman, like full parallel to the ground dive at Matthew Stafford that ends at Daniel Jones that ends in an incompletion that Kobe Turner picks up like as the final guy, like picking up the hit as Daniel Jones tries to throw the ball.

40:54Robert Mays: So just the guys you want to show up for the Rams showing up in a big way. But I think the Colts admirably showing us that they are a competitive team that can stick with a team like this. And so let's table the table conversation for the Colts for now and get to an Eagles win over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Feels like every single Eagles win in this entire year comes with like one crazy stat. And the crazy stat from this Eagles win is that the Eagles beat the Bucs 31 to 25 and their quarterback did not complete a pass in the second half of this game. David,

41:26Derrik Klassen: The Eagles really do remind me of like a loaded college team where they can fart around and have shit like that happen and still win the game. And maybe not, maybe convincing is not the right word, but like still like you could still look at it and be like, yeah, like the Eagles played well. They did some things well in this game, like their offense was humming better in the first half. They went on the margins. I mean, you start off with a touchdown in your back pocket because of a block punt. I know nobody wants to talk too much about special teams, but that's two weeks in a row where that stuff makes the difference.

42:02Derrik Klassen: And so it's wild that you can get away with living that way. But but the Eagles have a lot of really, really good football players.

42:11Robert Mays: If I could pick out three things, three reasons the Eagles won this game. Block punt touchdown. Huge. Right. Those are game swings where it's a play. Let's start with that. Point number two. despite him not completing a pass in the second half, I thought Jalen Hurts was really good in the first half of this game. It's funny because I think people are kind of mad. We didn't talk about Jalen Hurts after the Rams game last week. And it's like, that's an A.J. Brown game, right? Like A.J. Brown dominates that game. In the first half of this game, I thought it was some of the best moments Jalen Hurts has had all season against a Bucs team that was sending tons of extra heat at him.

42:44Robert Mays: He flips it out to Barkley in the flat against the big blitz for 12 yards early in the game. He hits a third and eight slant to Devontae Smith against a big blitz. He has a 28-yard scramble against another blitz look. He rips a seam ball to Dallas Goddard just on time, aggressive. I thought these were some of his best moments as a quarterback over the first four weeks of the season. And then in the second half, the big transition that happens is that the Bucs blitz 55 % of the time in the first half. And he was ready for it. It was some of his best moments against the blitz I've seen from him as an NFL player.

43:16Robert Mays: in the second half, the Bucks blitz 9 % of the time, Derek. And not just that they're not blitzing, they were sending guys from the second and third level, but it was all simulated pressures. And so I thought it was a really good adjustment from Todd Bowles and that staff saying, all right, we're going to try to get some free runners to speed him up a little bit, but we're not going to lose a guy in coverage. And so even if he's a little bit sped up, there's no clear place for him to go with the ball. So we saw some maturation from Hurts in the first half, But then I think the correct adjustment from Bowles in that group in the second half to, I mean, needless to say, limit their passing offense, considering they didn't complete a pass in the final two quarters.

43:56Dave Helman: Yeah. And that's why football is sick, because like, yeah, it was they were trying to do the Todd Bull stuff in the first half and it was generally not working. And I think sometimes we've seen from Todd Bulls, he will continue to just throw the blitzes anyway and just see what happens, especially last year when I think the defense was so bad that it was like, what other choice do we have anyway? But in this game, they did a much better job of like bringing blitzes. I mean, the one I think there was like a third and two a lot later in the game where they they run like a simulated drop out the gap player, fire a DB off the right side.

44:25Dave Helman: Saquon Barkley just completely misses it, which is weird because the whole he's lined up to Hertz's right and the whole line like slides to the left. So you would think he's supposed to be responsible for the edge player right there. But he just whatever the miscommunication was, he wasn't ready for it. Hertz gets a guy in his face. They get hands on the ball and that's incomplete. So a lot of the stuff in the second half really just did just feel like the Bucs were bringing this fake heat and then just closing on stuff immediately. And they did a good job to adjust. But again, in the first half, you mentioned the one you bring up, the ripped seam ball to Goddard.

44:55Dave Helman: One, it's the same play that he threw the touchdown on against the Rams where he just it's he's throwing away from the Tampa two dropper and just kind of does that and fires that in. obviously did it to the different side of the field here but I think that's important because if Hurts generally isn't going to be a guy who throws like in breakers and stuff the way that a lot of other quarterbacks do and doesn't access the middle of the field that's a way to do it is to just get like open up these seam balls and get Goddard running down there and it's obviously you know pretty important now that Goddard is a little bit healthier so I think that to me was him being able to show some ability to beat the blitz in this game which he had not done for the first three weeks of the season and then start to access the middle of the field more it's like that's what the offense needs to look like if they want to be the team that they're supposed to be.

45:39Derrik Klassen: Can we also shout out the young bucks DBs in the second half of this game? I thought a big part of it was just that they were up to the challenge because the Eagles try, like, I mean, Derek just mentioned the throw to Goddard that they scored on last week. They tried to do a lot of the same stuff from the second half of the Rams game, like go back and watch it. They're doing all the same stuff where they're like, AJ's singled up. We can throw like the hitch to him and he'll big boy this guy and bring it in and maybe get some yak. And Benjamin Morrison, Jacob Parrish, Tykee Smith, not in coverage, but like as a blitzer, I thought had some really good moments.

46:14Derrik Klassen: Zion McCollum, also awesome in this game. And they were like Derek said, they were breaking on so many throws and they got physical with guys like A.J. Brown. Like they were like, hey, Emmanuel Forbes isn't here this week, but like we're going to we're we're battling you all day. And in the second half, at least, they were really, really successful. I thought it was a phenomenal performance from a lot of the young guys in the Bucs secondary.

46:35Robert Mays: I think only topped by what the young guys in the Eagles secondary did. We're talking about the three tenets of how the Eagles won this game. Quinion Mitchell had as good of a game as an NFL cornerback as you can have today. So sometimes coverage stats are a little bit funny just because they're based on tracking data and they can be misleading at times. But I think the stats match up with the performance in this game. according to next gen stats quennyon mitchell was targeted nine times in this game he gave up two

47:03Dave Helman: catches for six yards pretty good i would say that's not bad the the two plays that stand out to me which one to get targeted that many times and have that good of a game is crazy but the first one that stood out was there was a third and seven um where godwin is like running that deep over route and he like flies from behind it and makes the play like that is an insane effort to get he doesn't even get a hand on the ball he like gets a hand like onto godwin's arms and like rips him down it was just like perfect timing where you dive but you don't get the penalty it's like it just the timing of it was truly incredible and then the one later in the game eight minutes eight minutes and 40 seconds left in the fourth quarter uh he's like pressed up on the right sideline it's a vertical throw and he doesn't even turn his body around he kind of just throws his arm up behind him and perfectly pushes the ball and it's just like to have that kind of stickiness and coverage and that kind of awareness for where the ball is at all times is he played a really, really special game.

47:58Robert Mays: He blanketed a Buka and a comeback route. He had a, there's a 33 whip route. He's all over. So again, I think the block punt touchdown, the first half performance by the passing game and what the defensive backs for the Eagles did. Those are the reasons that the Eagles won this game. And the Bucks are only in this game because they have a couple massive explosive plays. The one to a Buka down the right sidelines, incredible concentration into a tight window. and obviously the one to Bucky Irving down the left sideline against Jahad Campbell. That's an extended play from Baker Mayfield. Okay, so with those two games in the books, both losses, the Chargers were another team that we were thinking about putting at the table.

48:35Robert Mays: We'll hit them in a minute. Don't worry about it. We'll talk about that game. So at the end of today, with all three of those teams losing, who do we think deserves a seat at the table right now?

48:46Dave Helman: Derek, what's your vote? I think it's probably the Bucs, even though I think which is weird because I think in some ways if you just look at these two games the Colts game was probably like slightly more convincing because I do think like we mentioned with the Bucs the Ibuka play and the Bucky Irving play to me felt a little bit lucky like just like that they were not the better they should not have scored that many points like for the most part the Eagles DBs were blocking out the sun in this game and just like two big plays kind of put them in it but I still think that generally the Bucs offense is so talented and against most other secondaries and most other defenses, they're going to be able to score 30 consistently.

49:25Dave Helman: And like Dave has mentioned, I think that, you know, I don't know if the Bucs defense is good, but I do think the secondary is showing something that maybe like by November, I can really start to buy into this. So I still think there's some degree of like, I feel a little bit more comfortable with who the Bucs are right now.

49:41Derrik Klassen: For a conversation like this, I'm looking for potential for growth. And I mean, I was so impressed with what the Colts did. But again, like we talked about some of the concerns we had about them showing up. I mean, like I said, Kyron Williams had the highest success rate of running backs with like six or more carries for week four. Like he was, you know, the run defense, not wonderful for the Colts. Second cornerback spot showed it can get picked on. Daniel Jones, I thought he was good, but we finally saw him come back down to earth a little bit. And like even in a not all like even if even if some of the Bucks results against the Eagles were a little bit fluky, we know how good they can be.

50:24Derrik Klassen: We know what Baker Mayfield can do. And the magic ran out to a degree on Sunday against the Eagles. Like the red zone interception is just Baker biting himself. But he also had like a crazy third and six scramble. Like he still did some of that stuff. Mike Evans will be back eventually. That's where it goes for me. You are getting conceivably you're getting Gadecki back at some point after four games. And like all the young DBs I just mentioned are like first or second year players. Like if this is what they look like going against the Super Bowl champs in September, I'm very optimistic about like what Derek said, what that can look like in November.

51:04Derrik Klassen: So if this is where the Bucs are right now, I feel really, really good about where they can be. It's not to say that the Colts can't be, but I just think there's more for me to latch onto where I feel like maybe the Colts are closer to a finished product.

51:19Robert Mays: I think there are two things that ultimately push the Bucs over the top to me compared to some of the other teams that we can talk about. And this includes the Jags, right? This includes the Seahawks. Jags and the Seahawks, we have new offenses. We have new offensive systems. I think that it's only been four games for us to get a sense of that. I think both of them have been impressive. but the Bucs, we've seen them do this for long enough and knowing they're getting Gadecki and Evans back at some point and really the only guy that's out for the rest of the year is Cody Mock, right? So this team should be healthier theoretically.

51:51Robert Mays: Collider can't see as well. On offense, yeah, yeah, yeah. On offense, the offensive line, really you're only missing Mock when you get Gadecki back. So I think that part of it, plus the fact that we've seen this Bucs infrastructure do it this often and you feel good about the runway the defense has because those guys are young, that's probably my vote the Colts problem like that we keep thinking about like that outside corner spot that's not getting better unless you go get somebody and so I just think that the earned trust that we should have in the Bucs because they've done it for multiple years plus the fact that the weaknesses we've seen from them even over the first month are probably going to get papered over as they get a little bit healthier that's probably my vote right now this doesn't mean we can't put the Colts or another team in over the course of the rest of the season it just means right now after week four, we have to put a team in.

52:36Robert Mays: And I think the Bucs of the team, I feel the most comfortable with.

52:39Derrik Klassen: I do feel a little bad. Would y 'all agree with me that the, the Colts played the Rams better than the Bucs played the Eagles. Yes, but I don't, I don't think it can just be about today. Yeah, exactly. For sure. Exactly. I, I completely agree. I was just, I feel a little dirty knowing that the Colts played the better game against a good team. I still, I feel fine with our logic though, that if this is our, this is the choice presented. And may I just say nightmare scenario for us to fill a spot. It was tough.

53:08Robert Mays: I don't feel, there were no good options. No. None of us were going to feel good about this no matter who we picked after the way that they unfolded. I think I just feel the least anxious about picking the Bucs in this moment.

53:19Derrik Klassen: I can hear up in the Pacific Northwest some Seahawks fans yelling at us, but your time could come later.

53:27Robert Mays: I was, I'm very impressed with everything they got going right now. I think the defense is going to be really good. I love the way that Darnold is playing. I think JSN is really emerging. I think he's an actual superstar. Just give me a few more games. It's been four games of this. I've got, with this offensive infrastructure, with the kind of Liam Cohen DNA that they brought over with Grisard into year two, we have 20 games of that for the Bucs. And so it's just a little bit more time. It's a little bit more time on task, a little bit more belief.

53:53Derrik Klassen: And again, this is not an argument for the Colts, because obviously we know what's going on in the AFC South. But the Bucs have a very manageable road to a home playoff game. And that stuff still matters to me. So, yeah, of the options in front of us right now after week four, I feel the best about the Bucs.

54:12Robert Mays: All right. This is probably the deepest we've ever gone into the show before we did this. But let's get to You Have My Attention. Well, gentlemen, you had my curiosity.

54:23Derrik Klassen: Now you have my attention.

54:25Robert Mays: Each day, I try to pick out a couple performances that maybe made us stand up a little bit or sit up a little bit straighter in our chairs as the entire overwhelming stimuli of an NFL Sunday was coming at us. The Steelers in an Island game, you know, they had every opportunity to do this today, but I'll say it, 24 to 21 win over the Vikings had some, one of the best stretch we've seen from their offense. I think even when you consider the week one game, just based on the opponent, we know what the Vikings defense is. That Jets defense has really been struggling over the course of the season. Steelers have a 57.5 % success rate today.

55:00Robert Mays: Thought their defense, the front, really dominated this game. And so the Steelers showing up in London, across the pond against a good Vikings defense. Long day. Long day. Long day. In Dublin. I'm going to say it.

55:14Derrik Klassen: Pittsburgh Steelers, you have my attention. This is the Steelers. Like, if you're buying the Steelers as a playoff team and a sneaky contender and Aaron Rodgers unlocking one last go around, Like this is, this is the version that you wanted to see. He's getting the ball out. DK Metcalf is just doing insane things after the catch and, and high pointing and making contested catches. Kenny Gainwell shouts out to him for the day that he had filling in for Jalen Warren. And yeah, like after a certain point, the defense took over this game. I mean, TJ Watt looked like that dude, everybody else on the front got involved as well.

55:51Derrik Klassen: I I hesitate to just say like oh they just Missed Deshaun Elliott the secondary got Its act together as soon as he stepped back in But it sure as hell looked a lot better And this was a Vikings offense that welcomed Jordan Addison back too so I mean I know Carson Wentz is their quarterback but this is This is a dangerous skill group that they Played very very well against so Across the board a really Impressive performance in a spot Where I really thought they would struggle against Brian Flores.

56:21Robert Mays: I thought this was a perfect day and a perfect situation, Derek, for this version of Aaron Rodgers. I think that there are certain game scripts, there are certain things that will be asked of him over the course of the season where having to read stuff out a little bit later into downs, having to hang out to the ball a little bit longer, where we're going to see some of the limitations. This is the way he wants to play. And this was the perfect way to play against the Vikings defense. So over the course of this game, Aaron Rodgers, 2.17 average time to throw 2.6 air yards per attempt. There are a lot of games, Derek, where that style and him really want to get the ball out of his hands quickly ends up becoming a negative for the offense.

57:02Robert Mays: In this game, it ended up becoming a defined positive for the offense.

57:07Dave Helman: It was a huge positive for them. And I will say this was a very impressive game. I don't know how much it moves me yet about this team in general, but I do think both of their fronts played well. And I think this is actually part of why Rogers was able to play as comfortably as he did. Their run game was insane. They dominated the Vikings up front, like beat the bricks out of them in pretty much every phase. Like they had a 57.7 percent rushing success rate today, which we've been like you've seen flashes of this maybe with the Steelers offense. And I think we've wanted them to be this. But this was the first time where it really felt like they actually dominated another team up front, like they were getting the edges whenever they wanted them.

57:45Dave Helman: This was just a really convincing performance from that front. And then you get the one DK Metcalf explosive. And then Aaron Rodgers just getting the ball out of his hand so that he doesn't end up holding the ball a little bit too long, getting off to these throwaways that he probably shouldn't be making where he's kind of wasting plays and stuff like that. I think they just played a very let's just try to keep things moving and stay ahead of the sticks type of game. and they did it very, very effectively on the set.

58:08Robert Mays: I mean, that first touchdown drive where you have the back shoulder ball to DK that he lets go immediately, the one-on-one down the left sideline, and then in very like, it's like 2011 Aaron Rodgers, but it's essentially an RPO, like before we called them RPOs, like a package play with a slant that he rips to DK on that same drive, sets up the touchdown, and then that 80-yard touchdown to DK is perfect. They motion a guy right to left. The Vikings, I think, get a little bit confused about what the check is in that moment. they're in cover too but Ivan Pace flies to the flat leaves DK wide open and we know what DK Metcalf can do with the ball in his hands in that situation and so against this Vikings team where there's going to be some air there right they're going to play a lot of zone coverage and if you know where those holes are going to be immediately you can take advantage of them and you can neutralize the pass rush at the same time and so again this was the perfect sort of game for this version of Aaron Rodgers and on the other side of the ball I'm 100 % with you Derek the Vikings lose Brian O 'Neal at some point in this game.

59:03Robert Mays: They lose Ryan Kelly and the Steelers just absolutely feasted. Every single member of the Steelers front had a moment in this game. Benton, Derek Harmon had a big pressure and a tipped ball to lead to it led to an interception. TJ Watt was all over the place, had his own pick in this game. And so watching that front dominate in the way that they're going to need to, if this team is going to be who they want to be, I think that was really encouraging if you're a Steelers fan.

59:29Derrik Klassen: I am glad you said that because it was 14 hours ago and it's buried 10 pages in my notes, but the Vikings offensive line by the late third quarter is, I mean, that that's a tough ask. And look, that that's football. That's not the Steelers problem, but I couldn't help but think during that game where I was like, man, for all the time we spent talking about the, the ecosystem that the Vikings quarterback would have, like a go figure the day Jordan Addison gets back from suspension. You didn't have Donovan Jackson, and then you lose two other starters during the course of this game. And it's like, ah, the, the thing that got us excited about this team was how great everything was going to be for the quarterback.

1:00:08Derrik Klassen: And that just really hasn't been the case for the entire first month of the season for one reason or another. And that's football. It is not the Steelers problem, but that's, that's tough. If you're a Vikings fan, a couple of little schematic wrinkles,

1:00:19Robert Mays: I think are worth mentioning because sometimes we get a little bit frustrated with how the Steelers, approach things schematically on both sides of the ball over the last few years, if I'm being generous. Derek, you allude to this, but what they did on the edge in this game on the ground, I thought was incredibly impressive. I thought it was very smart. And so they had a ton of plays in jumbo where Spencer Anderson is their sixth offensive lineman and they have Darnell Washington out there. And so they're really widening the edges of that Vikings front. And why that's important is a lot of the Vikings run blitzes and run stunts on early downs are in the interior.

1:00:52Robert Mays: so you're avoiding all of the chaos that the Vikings are trying to create and then you're letting Darnell Washington kind of go to town on some undersized edges in one-on-one situations and you're really attacking that area specifically they did that throughout the game they had to Sean Elliott trigger on a couple early down blitzes on run blitzes and then I think he had a run through at one point so just trying to be a little bit more disruptive on early downs with some of the bodies they're throwing at it and the last thing that stood out to me they played 23 % two man on third down in this game.

1:01:25Robert Mays: They had three snaps of two man on third down. They had three sacks on those three snaps. And that to me, two man on third down is a, we don't, with the quarterback, we don't, we're not afraid of him. We do not fear the quarterback in this situation, either as a scramble or to make the throw. And so I think that might be a Carson Wentz specific plan, but just a lot of layers to the game plan from the Steelers today that I think ended up becoming really important in them asserting themselves the way that they did.

1:01:52Dave Helman: And I think to me, that's where the rumblets is that you mentioned really brought up. And I think that this with the personnel that they have, especially a linebacker, I think is something they need to tap into more because we've talked about before. These are guys that I think if you just play them as traditional stack backers and you don't do it and you just ask them to play behind the defensive lineman and fit their gaps, I think sometimes they can get a little bit lost, especially like, you know, earlier in the season, Benton wasn't playing as well and was struggling to give those guys space.

1:02:16Dave Helman: I think if you just start firing those guys and Deshaun Elliott, who can be creeped up in the box and just start firing them at the problem. You saw you mentioned Deshaun Elliott had a run through. There was one where they sent I think it was Elliott and then Peyton Wilson gets free because he gets the run through because there's a free run like it's just I think them that's something they should tap into more. But I think in this game one, because the Vikings were a little bit beat up along their front, I think they wanted to tap into a little bit more. And then I think they believe that if we could just get Carson Wentz behind the sticks a little bit like we'll we'll live with the gamble of like maybe we'll give up an explosive player too but he's not going to make enough of them if we can also get but then behind the six and we can generate our explosive play that's how you get the tj watt turnover all that stuff all the number of sacks also by the way the the patrick queen sack that he gets off the right side i don't know this for sure but it felt a little bit like he was kind of freelancing in the sense that you see him off the right side i think he's supposed to be responsible for mason who's attached to the line of scrimmage there, but I think he just sees Carson Wentz head turned to the left.

1:03:18Dave Helman: He's like, I'm faster than that. I can get there. And he just runs in and he gets it.

1:03:21Robert Mays: But that's that aggressiveness from this front seven. Like that's how those guys are wired. Like you want to see them playing that way because them moving forward and taking grass is their best moments that entire second level. And I think we saw a bunch of that today. Get to our next one here. The Jacksonville Jaguars knock off the San Francisco 49ers 26 to 21 the Jags are now three and one in the Liam Cohen era Liam Cohen had a very nice moment with Robert Sala after the game just exchanging some pleasantries the Jacksonville Jaguars at three and one you have my attention I feel great about the well

1:03:58Dave Helman: not great but like it feels good that they have well in the sense that okay here's here's how I'm I'm going to friend this one. It's very refreshing for them to have a three in one cushion to begin with. Like that is just not something that this team is used to. I think I think I have some issues with the way that the passing game is structured in terms of like personnel and what they can actually get away with right now. And Trevor continues to have like two really weird moments a game. But the fact that the offensive line, especially the interior, I thought kicked ass today. Run and pass like all of their interior stuff like Robert Hainsey looked really good.

1:04:31Dave Helman: And then they were not giving up a lot of interior pressure. I think Trevor in general was only pressured like 10 % of the time in this game. Like their offensive line and the structure of it looks really good. They did a really good job of getting some horizontal stretch. And even their non-offensive lineman blockers, like on the big Travis Etienne touchdown down the left side, Brenton Strange buries a defensive back. I'm so glad you pointed that out. Like takes him from like the numbers to the sideline and says, buddy, get out of here. Travis Etienne is going to go make one guy miss and we're going to score a touchdown.

1:05:02Dave Helman: And so the fact that all of that is starting to come together, if that can hold and the passing game gets 10 percent more consistent, I'm going to feel really good there. And then the defense, I still think they're getting lucky in terms of like the turnover battle and just getting a lot of I mean, they already have as many turnovers this year as they had all of last year, which is kind of crazy. But I do think you're seeing like Devin Lloyd is genuinely playing better. The additions they've made in the secondary are doing something. And to me, where you feel the difference of what was wrong with last year's defense versus this year's defense being good is one.

1:05:34Dave Helman: You have Devin Lloyd, I think, playing downhill as a run defender more than he ever has. Obviously, he's made some good plays and coverage, but he's hitting in the run game in a way he never really has. And then Eric Armstead being kind of a non-factor for them last year and being a real force in them. I mean, he's the one who gets to strip sack on pretty at the end of the game to close this one out. Like the fact that those two guys are really completely different players, I think speaks to like what's going on on that side of the ball.

1:05:58Derrik Klassen: Let's see if I can thread this needle adequately. I am impressed. And the Jags deserve our attention because like this is, this is not a win that you associate with the Jaguars. Like to go on the road to the West coast against a talented team, a team that's won a lot and get the win. You deserve credit for that. You are right in the mix. I mean, you have the same record as the Colts now. I mean, they're right there. I don't want to take too much credit away from the Jags. I promise I don't. But this game felt like the epitome of this is just a dumbass sport with an egg-shaped ball and crazy shit happens and you only play once and just some random shit happens and somebody has to win.

1:06:42Derrik Klassen: Like, this was the dumbest game. I have a section in my notes that just says stupid Jags shit. because like, look, I mean, look, they got four takeaways, but also Fred Warner came as close to having the two pick day that Devin Lloyd did. And the ball, the bounce of the ball just didn't go his way. Travis Hunter has a fumble that gets recovered by the Jags. Like the ease with which the Jaguars could have been the team with four turnovers. Trevor had a pick that got waved off by DPI, rightfully so, but you never know if you're going to get those sorts of calls. The Jags were flagged 12 times for 90 yards in this game.

1:07:21Derrik Klassen: They botched a fourth and short with a false start and had to punt in a go-forward situation. What else did they do? They shanked a field goal that would have made their lead a whole lot more comfortable. Trevor Lawrence went out of bounds in a kill clock situation that ultimately didn't bite them in the butt. Back at the beginning of the game, Brian Thomas Jr. doesn't drag his foot on a third and 13. That would have put him in a go-forward situation.

1:07:44Robert Mays: You're just so disappointed in Brian Thomas Jr. that I feel like it's coloring the rest of your generalist analysis. I am a little disappointed in BTJ. As an LSU grad, you're like a dad that just is disappointed in somebody that you've loved for too long. I want better for BTJ.

1:07:58Derrik Klassen: I just thought this was the drunkest game. It was so batshit. And like I said, they got across the finish line, which the Jags don't often do, but some of the nonsense just clouds how impressed I feel like I should be.

1:08:14Robert Mays: I will say this, and I think what Derek kind of brought up at the beginning, just the subtle differences with this Jags team, that is what I'm clinging to here, even if there is a little bit of randomness in what's going on, right? Like Gardeck causes that fumble, which is just like, you know, that's a fluky play. The pick, the Lloyds' first pick on the throw to CMC, like I don't even know what that play is supposed to be. Like it's a play-action fake, CMC's over to the left, and then he runs to the middle of the field. Like I don't know if that's a route he's supposed to run on time or what that is.

1:08:44Robert Mays: that it's a late throw gets tipped in the air to pick the second lloyd pick is also tipped at the line of scrimmage by i believe it was uh mason smith mason smith tipped at the line of scrimmage i will say this i think lloyd picks that ball off even if it's not tipped and so i think he does deserve a lot of i think he deserves a lot of credit for locate it's play action he locates that crosser behind him and is sinking back into that window i think he tips off that makes that play anyway and i think they did a great job over the course of this game of squeezing the middle of the field and really compressing that space and making those throws difficult on the Niners.

1:09:18Robert Mays: And then it's the plays to take advantage of it, right? Like that Travis Etienne touchdown that Derek brought up, I really wanted to talk about that play because the block that Brenton Strange makes, he absolutely just hawk walks Marcus Siegel out of the hole on that play. That's just a moment you don't get from the Jags offense in previous years. Even the Parker Washington punt return touchdown, like they're just doing little things on top of just extreme turnover luck that do make me feel like this team just has a little bit of a different vibe to it, even if they're getting a little bit lucky in the turnover column over the first four weeks.

1:09:54Dave Helman: I think that's basically how I felt is like this was not a perfect game by any means, and they got away with it. But like previous versions of this Jags team would not have found a way to capitalize on this stuff. Like they are at least playing competent enough football that when the bounces go their way, they actually win the game. Whereas I just don't know if that was true of the Jaguars over the last couple of years. And so, yeah, that was the big thing to me. I think I said to somebody after the parking, the Parker Washington touchdown, where I was like, they actually feel like a football team.

1:10:20Dave Helman: Like they can actually, it's not just like hoping that somebody makes a play. It's like they can actually go out and like play a collective team to like a collective team effort. I thought it was really impressive. The other thing I will say though, in terms of maybe this feeling a little fluky for them, Brock Purdy could not drive the ball today yeah he clearly did not look healthy yeah he's never like arm strength has never been his thing right like that's just not what he does but he looked like he had even 20 less of what he usually has and I think you really felt that over the middle of the field where everything he's throwing is a balloon and he sometimes does that anyway where he'll throw a little high make sure he can get over the backers but it felt like today he really had no ability to put that thing on a line and I think it really hurt them in this game his receivers also left six balls on the

1:11:05Derrik Klassen: field. I mean, six drops on the day. It was, yeah, it was ugly.

1:11:08Robert Mays: Well, I think they're all had a little bit of PTSD by the end of that game. Every single one of them got your hold at some point over the course of the game.

1:11:14Derrik Klassen: That is completely fair. I, I do really love it. It's, it's cool to see after watching what Liam Cohen did for the bucks and particularly the bucks running backs and tight ends last year, it's cool to see him just immediately doing it for the Jags. Like the run game is incredibly fun. Travis Etienne, I'm happy for him to just be, to be having this moment. I feel like people have been waiting on it forever. Like he is delivering Cohen. That is Liam Cohen is delivering on what had people excited as a play caller. And it's definitely not in its final form, but it does look good for first year of your tenure, first month of your first season.

1:11:53Derrik Klassen: And on top of that, uh, I'm being a little tongue in cheek, but like getting in Robert Sala's face, like you don't think Jags fans are pumped about that. Like what we know about Duval County and what the Jags fan base is all about, like for him to, for him to be saying, like, keep my name out of your mouth to Robert Sala after getting a road win. Like, like I said, I do think this was a little bit of a fluky win, but I, I absolutely want Jags fans to savor this moment.

1:12:20Robert Mays: The last thing I want to say at the 89 yard touchdown drive is like what you want out of the Jags offense. Like that's the version of this that I want to see. First of all, you get the 28-yard completion of Travis Hunter on the 3rd and 15. That's a fantastic catch by Travis Hunter, like easily his best moment as a receiver in the NFL. And then the rest of the drive, ball just coming out super quick, right? It's two-not in the backfield. It's a quick-out motion to BTJ in the flat where you're hitting him on a little quick-out. Backside to Brenton Strange, BTJ end around, a little naked to get to Hunter Long to set up the touchdown.

1:12:52Robert Mays: That's the diversion of this offense that you want to see. Even like Chuma Adoga came in because Anton Harrison got hurt. He had a great block on the backside of a basial toot and run, coming in and playing spot duty. Like, just little things from the Jaguars that we have not gotten often enough over the last couple years that I think they do deserve some credit for. All right, before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break.

1:13:18Dave Helman: Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter? Right? And the best part? They accept Discover. Accept Discover? In a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer. Oh, yeah, huh?

1:13:29Robert Mays: Discover is accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby, get with the times.

1:13:34Dave Helman: Right, so we shouldn't get the parachute pants?

1:13:37Derrik Klassen: These are making a comeback. I think.

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1:15:03Robert Mays: The Los Angeles Chargers, who were undefeated after the first three weeks of the season and had beaten three division opponents, lose to the New York Giants, who had not won a game this year and were starting a rookie quarterback against what had looked like, arguably, the scariest defense in the NFL through three weeks.

1:15:20Derrik Klassen: Los Angeles Chargers, what the f***? I knew as soon as we highlighted this on the preview show as the ultimate test for Jackson Dart and a high-level defense, I knew we were in for some weirdness, and we absolutely got it with this game from beginning to end.

1:15:39Robert Mays: On offense, and I know I'm going to get in front of this a little bit, I think Derek was a little bit worried about what Jackson Dart was going to do against the Chargers defense. And I think that is fair and that Jackson Dart really didn't carve up the Chargers defense as a passer in this game. But I will say Jackson Dart's legs are one of the reasons that the Giants end up winning this game. He carries the ball 10 times for 54 yards. He has six successful runs on those 10 carries. Some of that is a scrambler. Some of that, like the play we're watching right now, is a design quarterback draw, which I actually think against this Chargers defense is a really good approach.

1:16:20Robert Mays: You know you're getting a numbers advantage in the box. And so being able to tweak that even further in your favor by adding another body and using the quarterback run game, I think that's actually a really smart approach. And he makes a couple plays extending, moving up in the pocket, moving out of the pocket that I just don't think Russell Wilson is making at this point. And so, yes, did the couple turnovers and just the overall under siege element that Dress and Herbert had to deal with in this game is that probably more play more of a factor in the Giants winning than what Jackson Dart did?

1:16:54Robert Mays: Absolutely. But I do think that what he did with this legs there, what he did with his legs, Derek ends up becoming a very important pillar and why the Giants won this game.

1:17:02Dave Helman: His legs were impressive today, but like that, that to me was not the part of it that I really questioned. Like he's a very good athlete, like he's a very tough athlete. He's a guy who's willing to take hits and like do, you know, he's not going to be like I slide a little bit too early kind of guy. He's very willing to go and do that. And so I do think the first drive was really impressive where the run game in general was good, but obviously all the quarterback run stuff they did. I think the part of this game that you mentioned that I was most frustrated with L.A. with was being in so much too high.

1:17:29Dave Helman: Are you really scared that Jackson Dart is going to beat you through the air? Like, I know that structurally that this is what the Chargers do, but I just felt like this would have been the week to do things a little bit differently and not allow them to march down the field of the way that they did a couple of times. And so you mix that first drive where they score. And then the couple of turnover drives were multiple times. They start drives inside of the red zone because of some turnovers. So I think they got a little bit fortunate in that sense. I will say the two best plays I thought Dart made as a passer were the third and six where he's in his own end zone and then bails out to the right a little bit.

1:18:00Dave Helman: And I think Darius Slayton on the right side. That was probably the best play he made. And then at the very towards the end of the game where he hits Wondell Robinson in the end zone and he can't bring it down because he gets a little big I think a low he Gilman makes an insane play to punch that out that was another decent play by him I just still thought in structure he didn't show me anything that I you know he just didn't beat this defense in the way that I thought you know it didn't look very impressive

1:18:26Derrik Klassen: you guys remember the first season of Game of Thrones where Bron has to duel for Tyrion to win his freedom yes and like the proper knight is like trudging around in his armor and getting worn out and they're all like you're cheating like you're not doing this the right way and he's like he's I'm here to win like he fought fair and I won like that's what I feel like we're talking about like yeah Jackson Dart this was not honorable football but it was winning football I mean like to to go into this game in your rookie debut against the defense we gave you all the stats in the preview show it converted almost 50 % on third down and yeah, Jackson Dart used his legs, but that's part of what made him a first round talent.

1:19:10Derrik Klassen: I mean, that's part of his game. I thought he made several really nice plays and Derek highlighted a couple of them. The scramble throw to Slayton. He had a third and 10 scramble for 11 yards. He ices the game. I mean, it's a wide open throw on a curl, but he still picked up a third and five to put this game away. And yeah, they did. I mean, they started to, they started two scoring drives on the LA three yard line. Like that's definitely a way to have a leg up in a football game, but it's a complimentary game, man. The the this is why we were pumped about the New York Giants front. Did you know the only players in the NFL who finished with more pressures on Sunday than Abdul Carter, Aiden Hutchinson and Miles Garrett?

1:19:56Derrik Klassen: Only two. He had eight. Brian Burns and Kayvon Thibodeau combined for 12. Dexter Lawrence had a tipped pass interception that got him down to the goal line. you got a front that can wreck a game and i mean yes joe alt getting hurt is a huge huge part of why that was possible but it lowers the ask of the quarterback when you have a front that can

1:20:15Robert Mays: do shit like that watching the giants front against the chargers today is why the chargers aren't even in the conversation to be at the table for me fair we don't know the moment joe alt went

1:20:25Dave Helman: out i was like there that's not the team anymore the more the moment that joe alt goes out and

1:20:29Robert Mays: then everything that's happening on the interior i mean so the chargers a lot of 47 and a half percent pressure rate today and just so many moments where it's immediate like it's just absolutely immediate there's a second and five with like 556 left in the first quarter jamari sawyer just leaves i believe it was area darius alexander just leaves him he's like a down defensive tackle just chooses not to touch him carter wins immediately on a twist on third and five with 814 left in the second quarter that leads to a chargers field goal in the fourth quarter, Carter beats the backup left tackle so clean and so fast on a third and two.

1:21:06Robert Mays: It looks fake. Like it looks like there was some sort of miscommunication from the offensive line. And then there's a third and nine in the fourth quarter where Burns just wins completely clean on a stunt against Jamari Sawyer. And so when you have this level of talent and you have a group up front that has absolutely no shot, this is what the final result looks like. And then you add a couple just really, really tough moments when it comes to game swinging plays. The Dexter Lawrence interception is a phenomenal play by Dexter Lawrence, but that's just a terrible break for an offense. We get a tipped ball from a defensive lineman.

1:21:41Robert Mays: Then the second interception that Justin Herbert throws is truly like one of the most just cue like the Benny Hill music. The Chargers get an offensive pass interference out of a bunch look because I believe it was Tyler Conklin pushes the point man in the bunch back as the ball is getting thrown. But at the same time, Lad McConkie gets clipped on Tyler Conklin, falls down, and Justin Herbert throws an interception to Drew Phillips.

1:22:11Dave Helman: That could not get any worse. That play was the most frustrating because obviously on first glance, it looks like Herbert just throws the ball to nobody and just gets picked off. But yeah, Lad McConkie is supposed to be running that wheel route right into that area. but Justin Herbert gets sped up by again the pass rush that was getting into him all day and he's like I got to throw this ball and anticipate it and as soon as he's trying to throw it Ladd McConkie ends up falling and so you had a number of those plays like third down in general was brutal for the Chargers and again I think that was in the game four of 12 the Chargers were and one of the only ones they converted was Justin Herbert running for like 20 yards on a third and 18 early in the game which like that's not really I mean I guess it's a little bit repeatable because he can do that, but you don't want to bank on those plays.

1:22:52Robert Mays: Yeah, it's a 24-yard scramble on third and 19. That's not one that you want to bank on. And then the one that I do want to point out, another great play by the Giants defense, there was an incredible Andrew Phillips play on a slot fade to McConkie where he ran with him step for step and broke that ball up. But I think a combination of the Chargers offensive line just being completely incompetent against that front throughout the entire game, and then the Chargers having some back-breaking turnovers, Jackson Dart making the five or six plays with his legs that he needed to, and that ultimately ended up becoming enough for the Giants.

1:23:22Derrik Klassen: Which, let's not get ahead of ourselves because they still have so many good teams in front of them on their schedule. I mean, they play the Saints next, but then it's Eagles, Broncos, Eagles, Niners. Who knows how long this is going to work? But a quarterback like Dart can give your defense a chance to win a game like this, to make plays out of structure, to make plays with your legs, to make things work when the moon ball isn't going. I think that's why Brian Dable made the change. And it's pretty damn cool that it worked. Like, it wasn't pretty. And you could even call it fluky if you wanted to do it to be mean.

1:24:00Derrik Klassen: But for it to work out as wonderfully as it did the week that he made this call and the week that Dable was like, it's all me. Like, I'm the one doing this. It's a pretty cool moment. I'm not surprised he was cheesing in his postgame press conference.

1:24:15Robert Mays: Let's get to our next one here. This is a pretty specific one, but I think that we can take it a little bit wider. I think this was just an entry point into it. The Carolina Panthers get absolutely blown away by the New England Patriots in this game. The one aspect of it I wanted to start with is the Panthers punt coverage in this game. They give up a punt return touchdown to Marcus Jones with 555 left in the first quarter, and then they allow another one returned all the way to the 14-yard line late in the second quarter, And then that just starts the floodgates of the Patriots offense completely dominating the rest of this game.

1:24:51Robert Mays: So the Panthers punt coverage team and just the Carolina Panthers overall.

1:24:56Derrik Klassen: What the explain to me like I'm five how the Carolina Panthers have looked utterly toothless for three and a half or two and a half games. Excuse me, because they came back against Arizona and made it look respectable. But in three of their four games, they have trailed by 20 plus points. And then the other one is 30 to nothing. How? How can you be so bad and pitch one of two shutouts, I believe, in the NFL this year?

1:25:32Dave Helman: It was the first one and the other one didn't happen until today.

1:25:34Derrik Klassen: Yeah, it's unbelievable. I mean, Derek, I feel like you got to be on cloud nine. I mean, this was it's all coming up. Pats coming out, like finishing up week four.

1:25:44Robert Mays: Yeah, we're being a little bit tongue in cheek about the Panthers role in this. But I did want to use this as a way to get into talking about some really nice moments from the New England Patriots offense that down to down has actually been one of like the better units in the league. When you look at success rate and things like that, they've quietly been much better than I think some people anticipated coming into the year. And Derek, I think they had some of their best moments of the entire season. And a little bit of grain of salt, considering what the Panthers defense looks like most of the time.

1:26:11Robert Mays: But I thought some really, really exciting splashes from Drake May and just from the rest of the offense in general today for New England.

1:26:18Dave Helman: Down to down, it's a really good operation. And part of that is I think the run game looks a little bit better. But like Drake May, in terms of making the right decisions, putting the ball where it needs to be, scrambling when he needs to, has been truly one of the best quarterbacks in the league so far. Like he has one of the highest success rates. he's generally done a really good job like I know he had the late game turnover last week but he's generally been a good guy who like just in terms of putting the ball where it needs to be on time he's been phenomenal like he's taking to the offense really well you saw this Stefan Diggs chemistry I think build a little bit this week where he finds him a couple of times on some of those like intermediate routes hits him on like a really nice over route and then to me the like the two put like the one play that really stands out actually as a passer he's rolling to his left and has I think it was Hunter Henry on like a slide route in front of him and he's got a defender right in his face and he has to drop his arm angle and like kind of whip it in there and he does it and like that's what makes a lot of the best quarterbacks is these guys who can get to weird arm angles like rolling to their left like they just have this athletic flexibility to them that I think may has and you just couple that to me with how well he's making decisions right now within the structure of the offense I know they're not super explosive right now and I know that they shoot themselves in the foot with turnovers from time to time.

1:27:31Dave Helman: But in terms of like running in a thick and effective adult offense, it's starting to look kind of good.

1:27:38Robert Mays: Yeah, that was my big takeaway from this game is that you just look at just the sequencing of certain things and what they were trying to dial up and just all of it made so much sense. They had a really well-timed screen to Austin Hooper early in the game for 24 yards. They had a couple in the same drive. They had a jet handoff to Antonio Gibson for 21 yards, and then they faked the jet hand off and handed it back to Romandre going the other way for 22 more. He hits digs on that big crosser. He had multiple explosive completions to digs in this game. Hits the short post to Henry late in the second quarter.

1:28:09Robert Mays: There's just like a ripped throw. And so just, I think adult put together big boy offense, just everything feeling really, really buttoned up and just looking like the operation is what you want it to feel like. I think today was an example of that. I think there have been a lot of, there's been a lot of that from the Patriots so far this year. that's been done in by some pretty untimely bad luck in the turnover department. So to see them kind of put it all together today, even if it is against the Panthers, definitely encouraging from what we should look for with this team moving forward. Last one here.

1:28:42Robert Mays: The Las Vegas Raiders lost a game today where I don't have the numbers in front of me. Let me pull them up very quickly. The Los Angeles Raiders lost a game today where the opposing team averaged 4.4 yards per play. The Raiders had a 55.8 % success rate and averaged 6.9 yards per play in the game and somehow lost to the Chicago Bears because their quarterback threw three interceptions. Las Vegas Raiders, what the f***? And more specifically, Geno, what is going on, man? like Gino's game against the Chargers on that Monday night and the game he played today. I truly think these are like maybe the two worst performances he's had since he took over as a full-time starter in Seattle.

1:29:34Robert Mays: I mean, the game in against the Chargers, some bizarre misses just in terms of accuracy. And then today we'll get into some of the specifics of those picks, but this is not a situation where last year Gino threw a ton of interceptions. A lot of those were, uh, you know, it's a timing issue with the receiver, a ball gets tipped. For the most part, if you look at turnover-worthy plays and some of the underlying stats that we typically ascribe to quarterbacks who put the ball in harm's way all the time, Gino hasn't really been one of those guys despite the interception luck. His season last year is reminiscent of the season where Dak threw all of those picks where you just get a lot of bad breaks over the course of the year.

1:30:11Robert Mays: Derek, there are no bad breaks today. I mean, those are three really tough decisions in the moment. And again, these are two of the worst starts that we have seen from Gino Smith since he became a starting

1:30:22Dave Helman: quarterback over the last three games I 100 % agree like this is I think when you've had me maybe some like statistically bad Gino games in the past they have been a little bit of like he's an aggressive player and sometimes when you push the envelope you just get bad bounces and some of that has happened uh in the past couple years these past two games like you mentioned against the the Chargers just holding onto the ball for a long time and really being uncomfortable making accurate throws when he did let go of the ball. And in this game, it felt like the three interceptions all got worse. Like the first one he throws is on a third and 10.

1:30:53Dave Helman: He's trying to hit Myers on an inbreaker. And that one to me was a little bit of like a bang, bang play. It felt like Myers slowed up a little bit, but it was still probably aggressive for him to try to make that throw. But that one was one where I was like, I can see how this happens. The second one, Bayard actually like turns. He like drops down to the middle of the field and he turns his shoulders up the field Like he's going to run with the seam up the middle of the field on a dagger concept. And then as soon as that clears him, he actually drives back down onto the dig that I think it was Myers again is running.

1:31:23Dave Helman: And he just like completely snaps it off, picks it off. And so that one was like, OK, now they're baiting Gino into making these throws that he really likes to make. And then the third one is he's rolling right and he tries to throw like a medium range crosser and he just throws it two yards behind the guy and he just misses. which again, the whole thing with Gino previously was that he was one aggressive, which I think that part is even that I think has gone a little bit up and down this year. And then two is that he was just very accurate when he did let go of the ball. And I think especially over the last two games, you're just not seeing as much of that.

1:31:53Derrik Klassen: This the this game in particular, the first two. It just looked like. The the Bears did their job and had a good scouting report on Gino, like it's like it's just no, but like. But Gino had no counter or like no inkling that teams might be like, hey, on third and long, he likes to rip the dick. And Kevin Byard was right there. Like it was it was very obvious to see that these were bad decisions like in the moment. And it didn't stop him. It was it's wild to see from a guy who, like you said, I don't associate with that with that type of stuff often. I'll say this on the first two interceptions.

1:32:34Robert Mays: They're indefensible. Like you have to identify those players before you make those throws. Those are both two disguised coverages that the Bears deserve some credit for. The first one is a cover six where I think they pop the nickel out as the deep half player. And it's Bayard is the court on the quarter side as the safety. And he kind of poaches that crosser coming back across. So it's a well disguised coverage. You still have to see that safety before you make that throw. Second one is a non-traditional Tampa two look where Bayard is the guy dropping down. And so Gino thinks that when he has that run through player, that Bayard is going to be cleared out from that.

1:33:11Robert Mays: And Bayard reads it beautifully. It was a phenomenal play by Kevin Bayard. It's a throw you cannot make the last one. Like Derek alluded to, there's no explanation for that. There's no getting fooled on that one. It's just man and coverage. And he leaves it inside. And you combine that with the fact that he misses Bowers on a throw behind him in the red zone in this game. Like he has been, he has played the worst football of his time as a starter since he took over in Seattle in two of the last three games that the Raiders have played. Like, period. Like, there's really no explaining it away.

1:33:41Derrik Klassen: Without looking back through it, I just know I could go find half a dozen instances of him leading his man well enough to avoid that third interception. You know, like, he did shit like that all the time when he was in Seattle. That's just, that's an inexplicable miss. And yeah, I wonder, I mean, we know the injuries that the Bears are facing in the secondary. They had more today. Maybe Geno just thought they couldn't get him, but surprise, they absolutely can. Yeah, it was tough to watch, man.

1:34:16Robert Mays: It's tough because there's so many possibilities because of the way the Bears have played football over the last 20 years. The amount of games that have involved a ton of turnovers, defensive touchdowns, special teams touchdowns. I don't know if it's number one, but one of the I feel dirty that my team won the football game like up there and like recent Bears history today because of just how ridiculously bad the offense was in some of these moments and the fact that they still ended up winning the game because they blocked the field goal at the end and the other team turned the ball for four times.

1:34:49Derrik Klassen: doesn't just waste the best game of Ashton Jenty's young career, which quite easily amazing game from him that goes to waste. Max Crosby also disgusting player. I pulled this stat off of my timeline after the game. He's one of just nine defensive linemen in the last 25 years to record three pass breakups in a game. It was just everywhere. Three TFLs and a quarterback hit to go along with that. Like if the Raiders had pulled this out, it's one of those like, oh, Max Crosby is deserving of defensive player of the year like consideration even on a bad Raiders team. And just none of that shit matters.

1:35:28Robert Mays: Pretty sure on three of the turnovers, the Bears had, on each of those drives, had a negative four-yard play that was not a sack. On all three of them. That's hard to do. For it not to be a sack. Four-yard losses three different times on non-sacks as part of those three turnover drives. So that's the type of day it was for the Chicago Bears offense. Speaking of just, you know, wonderful moments in the football Sunday, let's talk about, let's get to how could you not be romantic about football?

1:35:59Derrik Klassen: I mean, this thing was a thing of beauty.

1:36:02Robert Mays: We're getting toward what I am now. You can feel it. That's where my brain is this moment, trying to string together coherent sentences. Each Sunday, we like to pick out a few moments that, you know, just what makes football beautiful. Mine in this game, Tyler Algiers, 15 yard touchdown run against the commanders. I mean, this is even in the moment, what he does to, I believe it's Jeremy Reeves at the pile on here. Like there are a few better things when a running back has the ball than shoving off a guy in the backfield with a stiff arm. And then one of those like, you finishes near the, near the goal line.

1:36:36Robert Mays: Like, and that's exactly what this was. And it was an extension of just a fantastic game from the Falcons offense overall. And so the Algier play is a phenomenal play. But I think, again, it just points to and is an entry point to a bigger conversation about the Falcons really getting back on track in this game. Thought that Michael Penix looked exactly how you want him to look, where the ball is coming out quick, but they're still able to push the ball down the field. This version of the Falcons offense, Derek, this is the one I want to see. They're running the ball really efficiently throughout the game.

1:37:07Robert Mays: and the two things in combination that it's like, all right, this is it. 10.1 air yards per target for Michael Penix, 2.62 average time to throw for Michael Penix. Getting the ball all quick while pushing the ball down the field. That's what I was promised with this version of the Falcons offense. And so getting to see it today, really, really nice bounce back game from Atlanta.

1:37:29Dave Helman: And again, it's what you wanted to see and what you expected to see. Like the run game has been good all year. It's a matter of like how much was the passing offense able to make good on it. And in this game, you did. It's not like Michael Penix started throwing the middle of the field, which we've talked about and especially talked about last week. He still didn't do that a whole lot in this game, but he was throwing those stop routes on the numbers. He was throwing a lot of those out routes. He was throwing a little bit down the field, hitting like Drake London. And so I thought the fact that he was a lot more comfortable finally getting the ball out and just saying, I can spin this thing 100 miles an hour and my receivers are pretty good.

1:37:59Dave Helman: I'm going to go give them chances I thought was important. And then honestly, to me, the other like to do a minor like how can you not be romantic about football? I think Kyle Pitts having the revival that he's having has been like a really, really cool to see. He has been, you know, maybe not as elite as he was at his peak, but he is like a very good player again for them. And like in the flat, like just like you can see the confidence in the way that he's catching the football. Like he just looks really good for them.

1:38:22Robert Mays: Yeah, I thought the ripped corner out to Pitts on the first drive. It was like, all right, that's that's what we want to see from this offense. And then we did have the backs. I mean, Drake London had like a backside in breaker that Penix did get to at some point during this game. it leads to a chunk gain. And so just progress being made in a lot of the areas we wanted to see progress made from the Falcons offense, which is a very good sign considering what they looked like last week. Derek, what do you got for me? What made you feel romantic about football this week?

1:38:49Dave Helman: I'm going back to the Drake Maywell, but he, I did not mention this when we were talking about that game, but he, against the Carolina Panthers and everyone who knows, every time I've talked about football, I love to talk about Cam Newton. He has this run to the left side where he gets in just tucked inside of the pylon. And then after he scores, does the Super Cam like pull the T-shirt across and open up the S? And that to me was just like for as much as I loved Cam Newton and to see a player I'm very excited about in Drake May do that against the Panthers. I just thought it was like this is what you get up for.

1:39:19Dave Helman: This is what you want to watch football for.

1:39:21Robert Mays: I will say for a lot of guys, that is like a troll move where it's like I'm going to do this celebration. He said it was an homage. He was a Panthers fan. He grew up as like a massive Panthers fan growing up in North Carolina. And so there's like a sweetness to that where for a lot of guys, it would kind of be like a dick move. And so I don't think Drake May is too pure to like ever do anything to troll another team in the moment. So I think the earnestness with that, I think, is what really attached me to it.

1:39:49Derrik Klassen: When it first pops up, like I'm not like I'm mad at Drake May, but I first saw it and I was like, damn, like does he have beef with Cam Newton? And then five minutes later, when I thought about it and saw the context, I was like, oh, that kicks ass. Way to go. It's very cute. It's very cute. Dave, what do you got?

1:40:03Robert Mays: What made you feel romantic about football in week four?

1:40:06Derrik Klassen: Even as much as I love the Colts-Rams game, even as crazy as Cowboys-Packers was, honestly, the thing from week four that truly took my breath away happened at like nine o 'clock in the morning. And we hit on it. But DK's house call on that, just the quick, like skinny post from Aaron Rodgers, I mean, you talk about like superheroes walking among us. He shakes off a tackle from Harrison Smith. He makes Theo Jackson look like he's running in mud. My favorite part, Byron Murphy right there. Go watch this playback. Byron Murphy absolutely thought he was going to have a DK versus Buda Baker moment.

1:40:47Derrik Klassen: Look at Byron Murphy. He's like, I'm going to hawk him down. And then like right around the 20, he's like, I'm not catching this guy. Like he made four different NFL DBs look like overmatched high schoolers. And like, remember, Omari and Hampton had his 50 whatever yard touchdown run. And like he's like a cargo plane where it's like you got to get up to speed. But once you get there, you're moving. DK Metcalf is just moving from the word go. He looked like he was running the anchor leg of a relay. And he is six for two thirty. Does not make sense. Shouldn't be possible. stuff like that's why I watch football it's awesome Stewart's got everything they wanted

1:41:26Robert Mays: out of the DK Metcalf Aaron Rodgers pairing today after a slightly underwhelming last couple weeks all right let's finish off the week four preview with what we learned today you know I think I've learned something today we were sitting here brainstorming this and kind of workshopping it as the late slate of games the 6 30 slate of games around the three o 'clock slate of games was ending. And I think that a lot, many times today, looking at the one score games was just a reminder to me about how thin the margins are in the NFL. And if you're going to beat these teams that are all bunched around you, the first thing you have to do is not beat yourself.

1:42:06Robert Mays: And I know that sounds cliche and it's not something I learned anew today, but it was something, Dave, that I think we were starkly reminded of when you look at the one score games in the week four slate is that in order to win in the NFL, you have to not beat yourself first.

1:42:21Derrik Klassen: Cliches become cliches for a reason, man. I mean, every given year in the NFL, like 26 of the 32 teams are different versions of each other. I mean, you have a pun blocked for a touchdown. You needlessly fumble at the goal line after a 75-yard catch and run. I keep going back to Thursday night. I know we covered that on the recap show, but your kickoff lands like one yard shorter than it's supposed to. And now the Seahawks just need 20 yards to beat you on your home field. Like those are the margins we're talking about. And time after time, you see it show up at the end of the day. And yeah, I mean, it is cliche and it is something that gets said all the time.

1:43:08Derrik Klassen: But there's a reason for that because you see it bear out time after time.

1:43:12Robert Mays: Yeah. The Colts win that game potentially if A.D. Mitchell doesn't do that. The Jags or the Niners win their game if they don't turn the ball over four times. The Raiders win their game if they don't turn the ball over four times or have a block punt. And the Bucs potentially win their game if they don't have a block punt return for a touchdown. And so very, very slim margins as there always are in the NFL. But I think today was a very clear reminder of how slim those margins can be. All right. That's all we got today from about 17 hours of football and talking about football. I think that's okay.

1:43:43Robert Mays: A fantastic day in the NFL. Really, really enjoyed it. And we will be back with you guys tomorrow with the Monday hangover. Three games we're going to hit on the hangover tomorrow. Titans and Texans. Wanted to save that because I really do want to just watch the Titans offense with a little bit more focus before we talk about that game. And so I thought it was a good hangover game. Also going to hit the Browns and the Lions. Another game where the Browns get absolutely blown out on the scoreboard, but in actuality had like five short fields that they gave their defense yet again. And we're also going to talk about the Bills and the Saints.

1:44:16Robert Mays: That was probably the game that was going to get left off before we didn't talk about Sunday Night Football on the recap. And so three games we didn't hit today, three games that we will hit tomorrow. If you guys are watching on YouTube, sincerely hope you guys like and subscribe. We're doing tons of new YouTube stuff this year. Obviously, we've got tons of highlights in the shows now that we've never had in years past. and so just a different sort of vibe to the YouTube product. If you have not checked out the YouTube channel, I would encourage you guys to do that. But anyway, we will be back tomorrow with The Hangover with me and Derek for now.

1:44:47Robert Mays: That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.

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