Week 6 Hangover: Colts era over, Eagles era paused, Giants era...McCarthy?

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1:35Robert Mays: Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab, which keeps them socially connected without social media. Right now, use our code to get the best deal on a kid's phone that will make parenting easier and give you more peace of mind. Visit gab.com slash football show and use code football show for an exclusive offer. That's Gab, G-A-B-B. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show, brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. It's the week six hangover. Me and Derek started off with some news that we had to hit. Chris Ballard fired as the general manager of the Indianapolis Colts.

2:14Robert Mays: We talked about the fallout from that, what it potentially means for the Colts moving forward, what it might mean for Shane Steichen and some of the bigger name players on that team. Also, some news about Jalen Hurts, likely done for the season after his blood clot issues have just gotten worse and gotten much more serious, talked about just all the dynamics surrounding that, what that potentially means for the Eagles this year before digging into two games from the Sunday slate. We hit Panthers-Eagles and Saints-Giants. We did not get a chance to get to Patriots-Jets in part because there was so much news to hit.

2:46Robert Mays: But obviously, Patriots are playing on Thursday. We will be digging into that team in depth as we recap that game. So that's what we got. Two games plus a bunch of news with me and Derek. Let's get to it right now.

3:07Robert Mays: It's the week six hangover. Told you guys last night on the recap show that we're going to be doing three games. I lied. We got enough news this morning. We're only going to have time to hit two. So unfortunately, Patriots Jets is going to be left on the cutting room floor, in part because we have a Patriots national game on Thursday. So we're going to be talking a lot about the Patriots and spending a lot of time focusing on the Patriots this week. I will not be part of that show because I am going to be at the Bears Patriots game, which I'll probably live to regret. But in this moment, I am excited about it.

3:37Robert Mays: So only two games on the slate today, in part because we have a lot of news to get to. And let's start with the big news of the morning. Chris Ballard out as the general manager of the Indianapolis Colts. We talked about this last night, Derek. It felt like it was going to happen. I'm not surprised at all. It seemed like we had kind of reached that moment. I'm not surprised that it's Ballard and not Shane Steichen. We can get into some of the dynamics of that. But anybody who listened to the recap show, I think, was aware of the fact that we knew this was probably on the horizon. That's no inside information.

4:07Robert Mays: Just kind of understanding, from my end, the dynamics at play, what the conversation was heading into the season, everyone understanding the score. And when you start the first six weeks like this and lose a game like that to the Titans, this is how this stuff ends. That's the thing. We knew going into this year that if they did not get out to a 4-2 start and they look really strong and the Sauce Gardner trade looks good and the defense is better and Daniel Jones looks healthy, unless all of those things happened, we just probably weren't going to arrive at a spot. And, you know, I don't know if I thought that like Ballard would be fired six weeks into it.

4:39But I think we knew that by if this thing was not working by Halloween, Thanksgiving, somebody was going to have to go. And and that's where we've arrived. And then so we knew that going into the season. And then it felt like last week, even before this game got played against the Tennessee Titans and they lost it, it felt like there were a little bit of the trickle of, hey, if this doesn't turn around, people are going to lose their jobs. Quarterbacks might get benched. There was like a little bit of trickle reporting from that. And then you obviously go out and lose a game to one of the three worst teams in the NFL.

5:11It's with, again, and I think Dave pointed this out on the show, that was the fewest passing yards that any team had had in a win this season. Like it was a game that you very much should have won and we're the better team for a lot of it. And you still let it slip through your hands. And so, and the other thing too, and I think we've talked about this a little bit, probably just not going to get a whole lot better this year. Like Daniel Jones is probably just not going to get back to a hundred percent. Alec Pierce is going to be continually banged up you still have all these issues on defense like you couldn't really see the light at the end of the tunnel for this season and so with as many bets as they made it kind of just makes sense that this is where it all ended

5:44Robert Mays: I know there's been a lot of frustration with the Chris Ballard era in Indianapolis justifiably so right I mean you go 10 years you win no playoff games you only go to the playoffs a couple different times there's been a lot of discussion about why it lasted this long all of that we don't have to rehash all of that here. I think that the Colts are a unique situation. And when you look at the way the organization works, the way the organization is structured, and I think this will play into the next set of decisions that they're ultimately going to make. So many of these teams now are run like Fortune 500 companies.

6:17Robert Mays: You know, you've got vice president of this and president of football operations, and there's this like leadership team overseeing everything. the Rams you have like a combination of Kevin Demoff and Tony Pastors and Les Snead and Sean McVay and it's there's like a you look at the org chart and there's just a lot of people and a lot of it's sprawls there's just a lot of different positions that exist and they're the Colts aren't run like a fortune 500 company the Colts are run like a family-owned business because that's exactly what they are and there aren't that many of these teams left and so I think a lot of people in every year with like man why don't they move on from Ballard and why don't they just like hire a different general manager.

6:55Robert Mays: For some of these general managers, they are such load bearing pieces of like how so many elements of the organization work that if you move on from them, you're not just hiring like a new football executive, you're having to reset like the entire building. And so I don't know if that's actually the case as to why they held on to him longer than other organizations might hold on to a general manager that has that track record. But I wouldn't be surprised if that did play into it. And so I just think there's a lot of stuff at play as to why he was there longer than people might have thought. But if you look at the actual just football results and what got us to this place, I think it's a combination of a few different things.

7:34Robert Mays: It's being not aggressive in some moments and too aggressive in others. You know, the sauce garden trade is almost an overcorrection to this team sitting on its hands maybe a little bit too often with some of the moves that it was willing to make. And then they never figured out the quarterback thing. You know, when you swing and miss on Anthony Richardson after what the 20, 21, 22, 20 off seasons looked like. It's really hard to come back from that. You know, you have, you've sort of figured out with Daniel Jones last year, but now you're in a spot where a top five pick, quarterback or not, is not contributing to what the team feels like.

8:08Robert Mays: And when you combine that with just a pretty average draft record overall, like it's not an absolute disaster, but they didn't find stars. And there were positions where they just couldn't figure it out. like the whole org never bottomed out really and i think that that's part of why he kept it along so long is they had the one year in 22 where the matt ryan season they make that bet of like he's he's going to keep us afloat the frank reich thing falls apart but they gave him another chance which happens with gms all the time right like you have one bad year we're going to scrap it and redo it and then they immediately hired he got a quarterback because they hadn't taken a swing at quarterback i think he got a long long leash after the andrew luck stuff and whether you think that's justified or not I think that's a big part of this it's like you couldn't have done anything to know that your franchise quarterback was going to retire on the eve of the season and then they spent multiple years trying to tie it back together and I think he probably got a lot of grace from the organization because of that justified or not and the 23 offseason is so weird too because obviously you have the Anthony Richardson swing and a miss and that's such a weird you know kind of took a project and never really gave like the project the time to ever really reach his ceiling and I think he obviously had individual issues but then you also have like he nailed the head coach hire at the same time like Shane Steichen was a good head coach hire and so I think it just led them into this spot where they were perpetually like spinning the wheel again whereas I think before Steichen they were able to kind of cycle through that because like Reich had moments and they were fine and the Philip Rivers year was honestly like really really good and you had these moments where yeah we're keeping it we're piecing it together then the quarterback situation all falls apart after that but Steichen is good enough then it kind of keeps you competitive and the roster was never that bad but this did just feel like and you know the Richardson thing is funny too he even I think talked about in the moment because they had spent the past you know five years that he was there just cycling through all these quarterbacks after luck and part of his reasoning was like well when you miss on the quarterback the timer starts like when you take one of these guys that the clock starts ticking and as soon as it was clear that Richardson was just not going to be one of those guys you start to feel and notice all of the other issues and pitfalls with the way that this team has been built over the last handful of years and they just struck out on high-end draft picks even if they were able to have fines in the middle rounds in 2022 they don't have a first round pick because they traded their first round pick for Kirsten Wentz which you know obviously is a black mark on the ledger too right I mean it's just part of the stumbling around in the dark trying to find the quarterback Quiddy Pay in the first round Dio Dangbo in the second round in 2021 and that's the position if you're looking at the position they could never ever figure out they never found the rushers they never did it that their best defensive lineman that they found over the his entire tenure was the first round pick they traded for DeForest Buckner and then what they've gotten from Grover Stewart that they were never able to find the pass rushers and the amount of first and second round picks they have spent at that position jt2 amalo latu latu uh quidipe daio dengbo like they took so ben ben banagou uh comeko torre like they so taekwon lewis was a second round pick like so many swings at this position that they were just never able to figure out and so even if there are guys like the tanner bordellinis and the gonsalves and the Bernard Ryman's and even Alec Pierce and Josh Downs.

11:38Robert Mays: And there were so many players, Michael Pittman, where they were high floor guys that were contributors that they found in the second, third, fourth, fifth round. But there just were never stars and they never figured out the quarterback. And they were never overly aggressive in trying to solve those problems in free agency, in part because this goes back to it. This isn't an excuse. The Colts were never a team that was going to be able to spend money. Never. They were never going to be a cash over cap team. If you look back on it, I think they had one year where they were in his tenure, maybe one or two years where they were in the top half of the league in cash spending.

12:13Robert Mays: There was just very little margin for error with the drafts because they were never going to be one of those hyper aggressive teams in the spring, in part because of resources and in part because of the mindset that the organization had. And so when you take all of that collectively, you get what the Chris Ballard regime ends up looking like. And I think we all can admit it was time for it probably to for that door to close. It was. And like you mentioned, some of the constraints of being one of those teams that's never going to be cap over cash, do all this crazy stuff. The Packers operate the same way.

12:42And they're because like they're another team where it's like they find all these mid round stuff. And for a while it was the offensive line. I think more recently it's been what they've been able to do with non premium skill players, finding Tucker Craft in the mid rounds and stuff like that. Whereas that's kind of what the Colts do on the offensive line. But the difference, and it's a very simple thing, the Packers have had the quarterback. Obviously, they have Aaron Rodgers for a long time, but they got it right with Jordan Love in a way that the Colts just didn't with Anthony Richardson. And I don't think if Anthony Richardson was the 11th best quarterback in the NFL right now that it would solve all of the Colts' issues.

13:16I think that they still have problems on defense, and their wide receiver room is still kind of weird. But they would look like a much better team than they are now. And sometimes if you're going to be these kind of not be able to take as many swings, and I know the Packers made the Micah trade, but the Colts made the sauce Gardner trade. And so like they will do it when they feel like they've got it. The difference kind of can just be like one team hit the quarterback and the other didn't.

13:38Robert Mays: And the Micah trade, the fact that the Micah trade and the sauce Gardner trade are essentially the same price. Yeah. I mean, that's that's what's hard. And I get in the moment you're kind of high on your own supply. You think you can do it. You're so much better than you thought. You probably sense that you're living on borrowed time a little bit. You got to make this work sooner rather than later. But you look at it now, it's a devastating trade. It's devastating because whoever is going to be the next GM is going to walk into the 2027 draft, likely with a top 10 pick if things continue this way and really no avenue to find a quarterback.

14:12Robert Mays: But even with that, if you look at the fact that, again, they don't spend a ton of money, they don't have a lot of bad contracts on the books. this really is mostly a blank slate for whoever is going to take this thing over the offensive line is intact you've got alec pierce on the roster you've got jonathan taylor on the roster and you've got sauce gardner on the roster other than that you can pretty much move on from anybody that you want that's expensive deforce buckner's a free agent quentin nelson is a free agent i mean it's there is a lot of flexibility for whoever ends up taking this job it's not a lot of star power, but there is a blank slate to work with.

14:48Robert Mays: And I think the question is going to become, as we go move through the next couple of weeks here, we have about three weeks till the trade deadline, how much of a blank slate is it? Who gets traded? Who is still there? Who are they willing to part with? And the three guys that make the most sense to me, Buckner and Nelson are free agents. So you got to decide now, do you want to give Quentin Nelson a market setting deal in his 30s to be the highest paid guard in the league? Or do you want to get something for him? I could understand bringing him back and just saying the offensive line is going to be the foundation of who we are as a team, no matter who the next coach is, whether that's Shane Steichen or somebody else.

15:23Robert Mays: Buckner is the one where I assume they'll try to get something for him before the deadline this year. Downs is probably on the fence as a young player. I think Buckner, no question. Like Buckner, somebody, one of these teams that really has a chance to go and do it should absolutely trade for DeForest Buckner. I mean, kind of joked about it, but like the Niners should probably pick up the phone and see if they can get a little bit of a reunion going. Nelson, I agree with you that if they can, they should try to keep him. Because I think even for these teams that we're tearing it all down, we're scrapping it together, we're going to be bad.

15:54You still need somebody who makes it feel like that gives you a cornerstone, like a thing to still build this thing around. And if it's not going to be Nelson, I really don't know who else it's going to be. It's kind of just like Jonathan Taylor, as far as guys who have been there for a very long time and are that caliber of player. And even then, like, I know that Taylor has been very, very good for stretches of his career, especially the last couple of years. I don't know how much longer he's going to be able to sustain that as a running back. He's an incredible athlete, so maybe he can. But I just feel like they are in a weird spot where if it's not Nelson or Taylor, I really don't know who else it would be.

16:29So I would definitely try to at least keep Nelson around. But Buckner should be, you should see what you can get.

16:35Robert Mays: I'll be really interested to see what happens with Steichen. I assume they'll move on from him just because it's often easier to have a clean break and completely start fresh. But I can also understand looking at the job he's done and being like, how easy would it be for us to upgrade from this guy and hiring our next coach? Because I think there are teams and should be teams that if the Colts do end up firing him at the end of the year, they jump at the chance to hire him. Because I do think he's done a really good job. And overall, I do this too often, and I want to check myself with it, where head coaches aren't play callers.

17:12Robert Mays: It's not the job. It's not just like, oh, the offense is cool when he's doing cool shit, and the offense had a really good stretch in 2025, and so that's why he should keep the job. This is a holistic thing. The scope is wider than that. The defense has not been very good. They haven't really figured that part out. Some of that should fall on him, but I still think if you look at the body of work that we've gotten from him so far, he is going to be an attractive candidate. And so if you're the Colts, do you look at that and say, well, if he's going to be attractive candidate in three other places, why wouldn't we just try to figure this out with whoever the next GM is, even though we very rarely see that happen?

17:46This team didn't change their GMs, but you know what this actually reminds me a little bit of? It reminds me to me of what happened with Kevin Stefanski in Cleveland, where it's like, I really don't think he and their staff are the problem. Just a lot of stuff fell away and the team ended up being bad and quarterback situation was terrible and they kind of just had to move on and I think both parties have been better for it like I think what Stefanski and Tommy Reese are doing right now in Atlanta has been impressive so far and their staff is good and I think that they're where the Falcons are today going into the season they are happy with where they've arrived I also think the Browns are probably happy that things have like feel a little bit different over there and so I would not be surprised if the Colts kind of feel similarly where it's not that like Steichen is the problem or that he's bad but like if we're going to reset this thing we should maybe just reset the whole thing it just feels like sometimes even if it's a good coach a cleaner break is just

18:37Robert Mays: the easiest way to do it it's funny that you mentioned the Falcons because there was some stuff today like murmurs Dan Patrick said that he had talked to somebody about the Colts reaching out to Peyton Manning and seeing if he would be interested in any sort of role with the organization. And that makes sense in some ways. Like if you look at what the Falcons have done with Matt Ryan, just because it does create that layer of leadership above the GM that I'm talking about between ownership and the rest of the football organization. I remember talking to an executive with the team that that team previously didn't really have a lot of people in those roles.

19:14Robert Mays: And they were talking about the GM and the GM talking about his job. And he's like, Like I was picking out the faucets in the facility. Oh, who cares? What? And that was part of his scope as the general manager was that he was picking out like the fixtures in the new facility that they were building. It's like, we don't need that, right? Like that shouldn't be the GM's job. And so there's part of me that thinks that sort of role with an organization like the Colts would make sense. But in Atlanta specifically, I think Arthur Blank's not there every day. Arthur Blank oversees a ton of different things.

19:49Robert Mays: And I think Matt Ryan can act as kind of a conduit between Arthur Blank and what's happening day to day with the organization. Carly Ursa-Gordon is there. You know, there doesn't need to be a conduit. She's heavily involved in what's happening, I think, in a way that makes total sense if I were in her position. And so how the Colts ultimately make this decision and how they build the leadership group out of this and what they want to do. Do they just hire a new general manager and just keep on rolling with the way that things were before? Or do they kind of reconsider this being the moment where maybe we can build in some things that don't currently exist?

20:21Robert Mays: I have no idea what ends up happening, but you mentioned the Falcons. That was just kind of the first thing I thought about when somebody had mentioned that Peyton Manning might be a call that the Colts make. So we'll see how this goes over the next couple weeks. We'll see who still is a Colts by the time this season is over. I'll be interested to see what the DeForest Buckner sweepstakes looks like for the teams that are trying to put themselves over the top here over the next month or so. The other bit of news that came down today, and this will lead into the first game that we're going to talk about.

20:50Robert Mays: Jalen Hurts out for the season, most likely, with blood clots that have moved into his lungs. And so now we're going from a superficial blood clot in his leg to deep vein thrombosis and his like multiple kind of pulmonary emboli, I guess is what it would be with what's happening right now. And so, I mean, there's just so much to dig into here. Obviously, there's been a lot of stuff on the internet today so far about how could he play it in that game and just like them putting him on a flight and just I don't know enough about the dangers associated with that to have like a strong opinion on it.

21:29Robert Mays: It seems to me like this is some scary stuff. And the idea of him playing in a football game after having to stay up all night because doctors advised that he didn't shouldn't sleep with what was going on on its face. That seems strange to me. And it seems like it would probably be a dangerous choice. But I wouldn't pretend to know enough. To make any sort of clear judgment about that. Well, but that's the thing. I think if they if if the reporting is that the doctors were telling him that sleeping was too dangerous, I don't think playing football is any good for anybody if sleeping is too dangerous.

22:08And again, I think I'm willing to let a little bit more reporting come out and really see how this story develops, because I think even from the time that we first heard about this blood clot to now, there's been a little bit of story changes and just things have really developed fast. So I think I want to not dive like too, too deep into anything crazy, but it is kind of bizarre to me that the reporting is that, yeah, they told him not to sleep and he stayed up and then they let him play in a football game. I think that that is just, I don't know, man, it seems incredibly dangerous to me. And it seems, I think part of it too, is that there's going to be some amount of, well, Jalen Hurts was really pushing to play.

22:45And it's like, yeah, man, he's a football player. These guys do that. They would play through a broken arm if they could. choice it should not be his choice at a certain point and because this is not playing through your ankle 70 or you've got a cracked rib like mike evans was playing in the last couple of games this is you could die if something goes wrong and that to me feels like there should have been a little bit more caution about putting him on the field yeah i want to be clear i don't think

23:10Robert Mays: that this was all above board and we shouldn't we should just take everybody's word at face value That's not what I'm saying. I just think that something is happening here. Something happened that requires scrutiny. The fact that even getting on an eight-hour flight as part of this, which that opens up an entirely new conversation about these guys playing the sport that they play and taking international flights in the middle of the season. But there's absolutely something is happening here. There's something that's worth examining and something worth scrutinizing about how this all is going, how all this went down and what the fallout from it looks like.

23:48Even just how calculated a lot of the messaging seems right now,

23:54Robert Mays: where every single, his agent, Nicole Lynn, put out a statement, the Eagles have put out a statement. And I think in both of those statements, they've really made sure to point out that we're all on the same page here. We're all working in Jalen's best interest. And something feels off about this. And so I think the next question becomes, What does this mean for the relationship he has with the organization? Is that something that we look at? I mean, there's going to be a lot more discussion about this. I don't want to make any real firm judgments or comments coming up for air after rewatching two football games last night and being up till 1 a.m.

24:29Robert Mays: talking about the games. If I'm just being completely transparent about this. And again, with as crazy as it's developed over the past even 36 hours, because they initially just put him on IR. This was not going to be like, we think the season is over. This was going to be like, put him on IR, put him on ice for a little bit. We'll see how it goes. And then it came out this morning that he is probably going to be out for the season. So even from the time that he went on IR, it's been a little bit of a change. And so I'm also willing to just see how this develops and see if any more reporting comes along.

24:59I do think, though, that this is an interesting potential capstone on what has been, I think, over the last couple of years, some really tumultuous health situations and pushing through stuff for a lot of Eagles players because you have this situation Lane Johnson fighting through some of the stuff that he went through and not even know if he if he wanted to come back this season and then they convince him to come back Landon Dickerson has really fought through a lot Cam Juergens it Saquon Barkley this year where he's like got some stuff and he's got a stinger and then he's on and off the field it just it feels like I don't again I don't know exactly what's going on there but just a lot more of, and everybody's fighting through something in football, but it just feels like a lot more things are going wrong for the Eagles players and team when they are doing these things.

25:43And that's another very good example of some scrutiny is warranted here.

25:48Robert Mays: What we end up learning or what the conclusion is, I don't know, but there's enough going on here where I think people's antenna should be up. And I think that there will be a lot more discussion about this moving forward. What this means for the future of the Eagles, I think becomes the next big question, right? Because we knew this was an important season for Jalen Hurts and just for his long-term outlook with the organization and how committed they were to him as their quarterback. You know, you switch up what you're doing offensively, you try something radically different to maybe get a different result.

26:24Robert Mays: And early returns on that were not good. And now we won't be able to even see that through so now you're going to get to the end of the season if you're the eagles and what do you do like what what is the conclusion that you reach about what the best path forward is because if you're the people in charge of that thing right now i have no idea what you are or should be thinking about that i really don't either because this the the jalen hurts decision was already going to be complicated one because i like because of where the money is at with him right now and then two like again you were switching to this new system it had looked pretty bad for the first five weeks of the season but also like nobody on the offense was healthy new offenses typically take a little bit of an uptime to really get going so like didn't even really feel like we got a fair shake of what the Jalen Hurts in the Sean Mannion new offense was supposed to be and now I don't know if we're ever going to because if the year continues to go this bad like Sean Mannion's not going to have the job next year like it's going to be probably somebody new if things continue to unravel this bad.

27:24And that's not even to say that he sucks at this or that he's the worst, but it's just like if the Eagles go, I don't know, five and 12, they're fired. Like people are going to lose their jobs. And so I just, I think it puts them in a really difficult position. I've, I've, I think personally have been on the side of this year. If this year did not go well for Jalen Hurts and the Eagles offense, I wouldn't blame them for moving on. But now it's just, I think even that decision feels a little bit cloudier than it had before.

27:52Robert Mays: And if you do go five and 12 and you're sitting there with the seventh overall pick in this year's draft, that then complicates the decision. Because if you're in a spot where you can potentially draft one of these quarterbacks, is this the off ramp that you choose to take? Because you're probably not going to get another chance this good to find whatever the next stage of this thing looks like. And so it's going to be a complicated and fascinating final 10 weeks of this thing combined with the offseason that we're looking at with the Eagles. I would not be surprised if the way that we thought about this team and the main characters associated with this team look drastically different in July of 2027 than they look right now.

28:35Robert Mays: All right, we're going to take a quick break, and then we're going to come back and chat about the football game that the rest of the Eagles played yesterday. Football season has arrived, and with the U.S. Bank's Smartly Visa Signature Card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase, including at the stadium or at home watching on a brand new TV. Score big with unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase. Visit usbank.com slash smartlycard to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions may apply.

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32:32Robert Mays: Where do you want to start with Panthers-Eagles? uh man do we want to just speed run the eagles offense part of this so we can get to the the more probably more important side of the ball sure uh i mean this was this felt like one of those games where sometimes the first play of the game is just an omen for everything on the first play of the game the panthers blitz the weak side of under center and get a free runner and tanner mckee immediately is in trouble and it's like that was kind of the game for the rest of it the Panthers were just consistently doing a really good job with all their pressure stuff getting free runners overloading the back and this was an Eagles team that had struggled with that when Jalen Hurts and their starting running backs were back there now it's a backup quarterback and this is RB4 for the Eagles and now we're on you only really have like two starting linemen only one of them is is good in Jordan Mailata and so you just ended up in the spot where I think they really struggled with some of the pressure stuff keeping Tanner McKee clean And then even for Tanner McKee's part, unless he was thrown like a stop route, he just was not accurate.

33:39Like he just did not give guys chances. Like I think if you're a backup quarterback, I understand your tendency to not want to be the guy who ruins the game. I think at a certain point, though, you got to put some balls in play. And there were just so many opportunities where the receiver is not necessarily open, but you got to let somebody get hands on it. And he just was not doing that. And so it for most of this game kind of left them dead in the water. And really the only reason they got inside the 10 at a certain point is Will Lee gets a DPI in the end zone. And that was really the only reason they got like a big chunk and started to come back a little bit in this game.

34:12And so an Eagles offense that I think we knew was kind of sputtering. But I do think why it's important now, when they were playing this game, it was like, oh, Hertz will be on IR for a month maybe. And we'll see how it goes. Let's see if they can get by. Well, now this is what the season is going to look like potentially. And so I do think it was a little bit more alarming for that reason.

34:33Robert Mays: the game plan from the Panthers was interesting to me on that side of the ball in part because it was a really convenient kind of echo of the conversations we were having on their preview show because we were talking about the Panthers and the way that they were approaching their pressure stuff specifically this year and just the fact that even if they were a top five blitz rate team they were blitzing in a very specific way so they were bringing five man pressures at the highest rate in the NFL per next gen coming into week five. Yesterday, they brought six or seven, seven different times on seven dropbacks.

35:08Robert Mays: They were willing to play some cover zero to line up and really, really be aggressive with the pressure stuff. And it made sense. Like if the Eagles were going to be under center and they were a team that you could blitz out a lot of things they were doing over the first five weeks of the year, which they were, this was the right approach. And even the blitz rate from the Panthers in this game, I think they blitzed on like 44 % of dropbacks. That wasn't even indicative of the overall pressure plan because I think you could anecdotally, I didn't chart it in real time. I would assume there were fewer four man rushes from this game, like pure traditional four man rushes from this game for Carolina.

35:46Robert Mays: Then there were simulated pressures with four guys coming. Devin Lloyd and Bobby O 'Carake had 15 pass rush snaps apiece in this game. So even when they weren't blitzing, they were sending guys from the second level almost the entire game. And so it was, even for a team that's been pressuring a lot this year, they were amping it up in a way we were curious about heading into this game. And even you mentioned the linebackers coming. Trev and Merrig, they were using a lot because they like to play a lot of that three safety stuff where Merrig or one of the other safeties is basically their nickel.

36:19And they had a number of plays in this game where they do that overload mug to one side where there's a standup guy in the A and the B gap on one side, and then you get three down linemen to the right-hand side. So you kind of dictate the slide. But I thought what the Panthers were doing, kind of getting that and then using Merig as kind of like a find the open gap blitzer, which I thought was interesting because when they did it early in the fourth quarter, he just fires off the edge. He's a completely free runner. Nobody touched him. They go back to it again in the middle of the fourth quarter with about five and a half minutes left.

36:49And he starts around the C gap, around the tackle area, but he realizes there might be tight end help. So he actually like cuts inside and gets to the front side A gap. And I think he was just like, they schemed up the front knowing that Merrick will be free and it's on him to go find where the gap is going to be. And the fact that you just have a player that can go do that is kind of cool. He is an underrated, I feel like move around piece. We always talk about the Kyle Hamiltons, Derwin James, Buda Baker, like all those guys. They are a different level. Trevin Merrick does do a lot of that for this defense.

37:24Robert Mays: Yeah, and I liked the version of it that we saw. I think them being more willing to embrace an all-in approach to being a pressure team, I think makes sense for them. I'd rather see that than them kind of playing it halfway in the way that they did for a good chunk of the first five weeks of the season. It was funny, though, watching the transition as the game unfolded. Obviously, you're down if you're the Eagles, but also, if they're going to be pressuring all this time, and we've seen this push-pull a lot this season, where if we're in an under center world, what is the defensive response to being in an under center world?

37:57Robert Mays: We're just going to bliss the shit out of you. And that's what we've seen a lot of teams do. And so I think we've seen offenses counter that by just trying to get back in the gun and be able to give their quarterback answers and options and tools to solve these pressure heavy teams. In the fourth quarter, the Eagles ran 20 offensive plays. Every single one of them was in the shotgun. And when they were able, when he was able to kind of make, to get the ball off, period, right? When he wasn't sped up, I think that's when you saw the corner issues and the outside corner issues that the Panthers continue to have.

38:29Robert Mays: And so even if there were stretches where the defense was really dictating how the game was going, some of those cracks in the foundation because of the cornerback problems, those didn't go away when the Eagles gave themselves a chance to start picking at them. And that's funny too, because like speaking of how we talked about it on the preview, I was like the way that they do some of this stuff, given that the secondary is still not good and given that until this game they had not really brought the zero stuff good quarterbacks are going to figure it out man they're going to get you where the Eagles offense is at with Tanner McKee in a mostly backup offensive line I think they went into this game being like okay maybe let's see what some of our cover zero stuff looks like just to get it on film and like see how we feel good about it and at least you know we'll see how it actually turns out when they have to play some some real offenses and real quarterbacks I don't know why this is I think it's partially a product of how wide open the season feels because it really does feel just wide open.

39:23Robert Mays: It's such a strange year where we can't even fit 10 teams at the goddamn table. And every single team I think can look at itself right now to a degree. We talked about this with the Texans where it's like, well, yeah, we're one and four, but let's do the Marvin Harrison trade because why not us? Why can't we be the team that does it? And so because we're living under those circumstances, or at least that's how it feels to me, I find myself really intrigued about the tinkering that these teams are going to do to solve their problems. Because I think with so many of them, you can talk yourself into the idea of, well, if they figure this out, they suddenly become pretty interesting.

40:02Robert Mays: And so watching this process with the Panthers defense and like, all right, do we want to turn this knob up a little bit and be a team that's going to bring six or seven a little bit more and just fully lean into that? Is that how we saw what we want to be on that side of the ball? Those processes, I find myself really interested in what they're going to look like because it feels like a huge collection of those teams in the middle class are relevant because of how muddied everything feels right now. Does that make sense? Like, I think that's why I find myself so intrigued by a lot of this stuff.

40:37Robert Mays: I don't know if there'd be in every season. I'm not sure I'd be like, man, I can't wait to see if the Panthers continue to do this defensively for a team that's like three and two and probably isn't that good. But this year specifically, I think there's going to be a lot of that because it all seems so tightly bunched together and so complicated and muddy. I mean, I don't obviously I'm not saying that the second half of their season is going to go this way, but I don't think it would be that crazy if they view themselves the same way the Colts did early last year, where it's like we really feel like we've found something.

41:12We are more competitive than I think people thought that we were going to be. Can we go get one more piece, tinker with one more little thing, and that's going to separate us from the rest of this middle pack? And it doesn't make us the best team in the NFL, but if it takes us from fiddling around in this group of like eight teams right in the middle of the NFL, and it can get us to the top of that or like squeeze us into the bottom of the next tier, I would not be surprised if they think that. I think I'm personally still a little bit hesitant whether or not I believe that this Carolina team is that sort of team but I think when you're in the position they're in I totally get why they believe that especially in their case the division is you can really like shut the door on the division if you think you're one piece away whereas I think that that's not always the case with some of these other teams that are in the middle like even the Colts last year I know they felt they were a good team I think even with the Texans record and the Jags struggles I don't feel like that should have been a division they thought that they could just like sprint away

42:06Robert Mays: from like that was gonna be tough yeah in atlanta i do i still believe that will be will be in the mix as we move through the rest of the season but i'm with you and and last year they made the playoffs but it was like all right they kind of knew that yeah you know we all agree that was kind of fake this year and it's so early still but this year and we'll talk about the offense in a second i don't know i believe that we could get to a point by the end of the season where this team is like, yeah, we can win a playoff game. Why can't we win a playoff game? Like, I don't think that's delusional thinking if you're the Panthers right now.

42:41Robert Mays: I don't think they should go out and make some splashy move. Like, the best moves the Panthers can make are getting Mike Jackson and JC Hornbeck. Those are the best moves the Panthers can make this year. And so I think it's more just about what type of team are you as currently constructed? And as we move through this, even if the defense does have some things to figure out, I think if you're Carolina, I get, be I would get having a mindset where you're like no we're good like I don't know if we're like a Super Bowl contender but we're good and I think as more time passes and we'll again we'll talk about the offense in a second that becomes easier and easier to start believing when you see how elements of this team are put well and again if you're in their building and in their shoes last year we knew they were kind of a fake playoff team I think they probably even realized they overachieved to get there they still almost beat the ramps like they gave them a really good game so I'm sure they're sitting in their shoes they're like the offense is better than it was last year the defense especially when we get our guys back will be better than it was last year why can't we win a playoff game or two if that's going to be the case and so I get why they would believe that they really can like make a much bigger impact than they did a year ago so what were your impressions of the offense's performance in this game they were not good uh this this to me felt like the game that I had been worried about we would see because I think we see offenses start pretty hot sometimes in the early goings of the season and then some of the cracks that you're worried about show again and I think this was kind of a combination of the two I think that there were moments from Bryce Young that we can talk about that I they cropped up of like the worst parts of his game that still kind of freaked me out when it comes to big moments at the same time I was still really impressed by the offensive construction like this did not feel to me like a game where Vic Fangio just came out and like put the clamps on you as a play caller I actually thought Brad Idzik had four or five like really beautifully designed shot plays some of their play action stuff to get like Coker open on drift routes and stuff like that I thought they did a really good job of opening stuff up like their play action game in general you know they had what they they kept doing like this uh like guard pull play action and it would like draw the second level.

44:51They did it on the Tommy Tremble touchdown for 12 yards. They did that. There was a play when they were backed up in their own red zone. They do that guard pull and they throw the drift route behind it. They had some other like really good pure two man play action stuff where we're just running like a stop route and a corner route to one side. Somebody is going to get open. And they just did a really good job of like tying down flat defenders for that. So like I thought they called a really good game. I just thought sometimes when they went had to go to their pure drop back stuff I think you saw some of some of the potential

45:21Robert Mays: issues with the passing game still it was another example where their their offenses it's really interesting man like they're just so many different things happening I don't know how to describe it like I it's kind of I really don't either I really don't either and so early in the game you get several different instances where and the Bears did this to the Eagles a lot and I think it's a good way to attack the eagles where you get some of these fly motions where you create this horizontal stretch you create some number count issues right before the snap where you're caught creating communication and for the eagles for the panthers specifically they were doing it as a way to make ted row mcmillan the number two receiver right before the snap and getting him some matchups early in the game but they didn't keep doing it like they kind of went away from that after doing a good chunk of it early but then they were tapping into other things that were working like one drive it's like this is the under center play action drive and and some teams like it'll be they'll have that's who they are but the panthers are so many different things at once that they kind of take on individual identities at different points in the game and for a lot of teams we've talked about this a lot with them this year i think that would be a point of criticism where i'd be like man just figure out what you are what are you because you're too many things it all feels muddled right now.

46:41Robert Mays: And with them, I don't really feel like that because I think that they can credibly do so much of it that their ability to tap into all these different things over the course of the game ends up being a strength more often than it ends up being a weakness, even if this was their most uneven performance outside of the Cleveland game that they've had all year. That's the thing. I still think grab bag offense in general is like, I would rather be a team that has like a system. Like I would rather be the Kyle Shanahan, Deshaun McVay, Liam Cohen, like where it feels it's very obvious how this thing is supposed to work at the same time if you are credibly a seven out of ten at all of the things that you are trying to do even if it's not all that tied together you can still be really good at this like again todd monken i think it like kind of runs his offenses this way too where it's a little bit of like we're just doing what we got to do this week and we're good enough at all of it that we can pull it out on any given drive and i do think that the panthers because of their rpo game because of the the play action pass game like Their run game isn't fantastic, but their offensive line can maul people enough that it's a credible threat that if we are not going to give the run game its respect and we kind of try to play out the pass and make sure that we're clamping on all the RPOs and clamping on play action stuff, they will be able to move the ball on you on the ground.

47:55And so, again, I think that they really can credibly do all this stuff. And it really makes them a kind of fascinating offense. But I think, again, even for that, there were just moments in this game where I think the explosive plays are going to be like really high vacillations week to week just because of the virtue of how they have to get them. Like they can scheme a couple of them up, but I just, again, I think because the quarterback, when he gets crowded, because some of the throws he makes outside the numbers, it's just hitting on those 16 to 20 yard throws consistently and finding chunks.

48:29I think you see it in this game, unless you can scheme it wide open, I think it's just not going to be there every single week.

48:36Robert Mays: That part is not as worrying to me as a reminder that there are limits to his creation ability. I think that's what I walked away from this game, not worried about, but just reminded of that he's really good at navigating traffic and finding space in condensed areas. The 3rd and 15, by the way, the 3rd and 15 is exactly what you're talking about, where he like dodges Jalen Carter in the pocket and just rips one to Jalen or Tedaroa McMillan on the 3rd and 15. It's like he can do that, but that's because Jalen Carter is not directly in his face. It's also when he's running away from people, he can't really do that.

49:21Robert Mays: Right. He takes a bad sack in this game. There's an intentional grounding. And so there are limits to the creation ability and the play extension ability outside of structure just because he's not that explosive of an athlete and he is small. But that was really my I understand what you're saying, but I think we've gotten enough examples this year of his ability to do it in enough different ways where I still have faith in that moving forward, like their ability to kind of find some of those chunks. and this and then this game they had a couple downfield chunks that got called back or just like kind of strange plays like the wall or shot play down the field the ball gets lost in the sun and so he can't really make a play on it even if it was a little bit under thrown they had a chunk that came back in this game off of a leak because there was an eligible player downfield and so I don't know I think I still for the most and there were just like some strange moments early in this early in the game where they had a wide open slant that gets knocked down like it it was kind of a strange game in the first half for them offensively, especially when they were trying to throw the ball.

50:25Robert Mays: It's against a good defense. And so I don't know. I come away from this still pretty bullish on what the offense can look like in the long run, even if, again, this was not their most complete game. And it was probably the most uneven game they've had outside of the Browns game. To me, the Waller throw is actually a good example of what I'm trying to get at, because I think it's true that Bryce Young is much better than he's ever been before. And this is clearly a quarterback playing well in a well-constructed offense. But the throw to Darren Waller, he has like a rusher kind of in his face. I think one of his guards or maybe his center kind of gets pushed back into his face.

51:00And he has to make this throw with the guy in his lap. And it's down the middle. It's like 45-yard throw. And he just leaves it 10 yards short. That's basically the same exact throw that CJ Stroud made, where he rips a bomb to Jalen Knoll with a free rusher in his face. That's a good point. It's like, that's the, like, when I talk about, like, having size and talent, it's like, do you make that throw eight times a year and that's it? Like, you don't make it every game? Of course. But, like, those throws are going to be the difference to me. And so, I just, it's little moments like that. I also did think in this game, he's generally been good outside the numbers this year.

51:34There were a number of plays in this game where, like, you just did not see him driving it. like there was one like a deep outbreaker to Mechie where he's throwing it from the left hash the right sideline that he misses and then on the next play he's trying to throw a speed out and he throws that in the dirt which that one was kind of critical too because if they had gotten five or six yards on that play they can kick the field goal but they don't get it and they can't kick the field goal they have to punt and it just was like I realized that I'm the guy who is is going to be a little bit more pessimistic on this offense and this quarterback but this was the game where these are the cracks that I'm worried about.

52:08And I just, again, this is a really great defense, but if they get to January, you're going to play these defenses. You're going to play the Seahawks or somebody like that.

52:16Robert Mays: I think it's okay to acknowledge that he still has relative limitations that are just always going to be there while also acknowledging that he's playing really well and has transcended those limitations for a good majority of the season. Both of those things can be true simultaneously. and the throws outside the numbers and the wall or throw is another good example but the throws outside the numbers to me were the best example from this game where just the inability to really drive the ball to that area and some of the in the way that a lot of other guys can it's going to be a relative limitation for him but overall again I just I leave still pretty bullish on the offense what they can do I thought that some of the stuff they did with tremble in this game and just he's a really nice role player uh the coker uh angle right out of the backfield on third down which is like a really nice like design and call and execution in that moment some of the play action stuff is really really good and so it's I I'm I've really liked watching the offense all year and even in a game where they were not at their best I leave still feeling that way all right let's take one more quick break and then come back and chat a little Giants Saints think about a football team learning a new system if everyone is working from a slightly different version of the playbook, things can break down pretty quickly.

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56:04Robert Mays: stick into giants saints what a bizarre football game this is one of those games where i i i don't know every time you look at the scoreboard and every time you look at the time and how much is on the clock and you look at the box score like no part or beat of it makes any sense to you. And I don't know if I feel any better about, not any better about either team, but I don't know if I feel any clearer about either team whatsoever after a game like this. That's kind of how I feel too. So you watch how the game unfolded. For a majority of the first half, the Saints are incapable of moving the football.

56:42Robert Mays: And the Giants come out to a 10-0 lead. The Saints end up tying the game at 10 before the half. and then the Saints come out at halftime and they decide that they're done throwing the ball. They're like, we're all set. And we, halftime adjustments aren't always a thing. Like they're very rarely a thing. It's an overstated talking point. In this game, there were some pretty extreme halftime adjustments from the Saints and what they were doing in the second half of this game. In the first half, the Saints were 87 % 11 personnel, 87%. They had zero snaps of 13 personnel in the first half. In the second half, they had 25 snaps of multi-tight end looks, including 15 13 personnel snaps.

57:32Robert Mays: They went from being in the gun on 78 % of their snaps in the first half to 36 % of their snaps in the second half. They were just like, we don't trust ourselves to deal with the pressure stuff that you're throwing at us. so what we're gonna do is we're just gonna line up with a bunch of big bodies and we're gonna run the ball 30 times in this half and that was the correct approach and it ultimately helped win them the game just a very very strange football game it became a lot of oscar delp who we knew he would be useful and important for them at some point but he really became important for them in this game and the second half adjustment is funny too because i think i think in his heart of hearts Kellen Moore wants to be an 11 personnel.

58:13We are throwing the ball sort of football team. But I think that they've had stretches this year where that has just not been their best stuff. And I do think when you heat Tyler Shuck up, I think he has the he has like a twofold issue. We talked about this before. He is a little bit slow out of the gates when he's trying to evade free rushers, get away from people, all that stuff. Once he's once he's moving, he's good. But getting out of the gates, especially against free rushers, can be tough for him. so I think he struggles to have that answer and then I think a lot of teams and the Saints are in this bucket a lot of teams this year really think that they can just block it up with six and the back is going to make them right and the quarterback we can sit here and spread and shred you can do that a little bit but I think it's you really have to sit there and take some more shots and be a little bit more calculated that way we have not seen a lot of that from Tyler Shuck this year like when you look at how often throws are going to the sticks against the blitz and I even removed first down because I think sometimes you just get those five-man rushes against under center looks and that doesn't really count to me but if we're just looking at to the six percentage against blitzes Tyler Shuck is at 38 which is the fourth lowest in the NFL right now ahead of only Daniel Jones who can't push the ball Cam Ward who is still a struggling young player in a new offense and Geno Smith in an offense where like their whole thing is they do not want to push the ball and so it's just I feel like they don't have that answer right now so naturally I think they made a good pivot of, you know what, if we need to win five yards at a time, we're going to get four hands on Shelby Harris, move him over here, and we're going to do it that way.

59:43Robert Mays: Do you think this is any glimpse of the Saints being able to figure out how they're going to run the ball over the course of the season? Or do you think this is a mid-game pivot where they jumped on a team and this gives us no actionable information about what they're going to look like moving forward? I think, I hope that actually it does give them some more moments where they can go back and look at like, hey, because we were able to do this against this team, that that's going to be pretty good for us. And maybe we should go to this different pitch. And I think they're kind of obsessed right now with making Bryce Lance work.

1:00:13And I get that. But this to me feels like they jumped on a team in the second half and the Giants run defense hasn't been terrible this year. They've been like middle of the pack. I still think. Yeah, it's been fine. I still think that there are players that you can jump on. You can move their edges outside of Kayvon Thibodeau a little bit still. Shelby Harris, again, I think especially in this game was very movable. Arvel Reese is an awesome player. He's still every now and then is guessing because he's a young player. Like, I think that there is stuff to pick on, but I think it's probably more likely they just kind of jumped on them in a weird game and that this is not necessarily going to be like a change of heart for the Saints offense.

1:00:50Robert Mays: It helps when the quarterback on the other team is willing to help give you the game over the course of the game. and we might let's let's just have this discussion now the jj mccarthy part of this he made like two or three like holy shit throws in this game that were very impressive like the both of the crossers are like okay i i'm buying into this and then obviously the chuck deep ball the malik neighbors is uh malik's down there somewhere sort of play i wasn't overly impressed by what jj mccarthy was bringing to the table down in and down out. Here's why in combination with what we saw from JJ McCarthy, here's why I'm open to seeing more of JJ McCarthy.

1:01:31Robert Mays: It's a combination of those few moments we got from JJ McCarthy yesterday. And I don't need to see any more of Jameis Winston. I'm good. Like I, it's the entire selling point of a veteran quarterback is that the veteran quarterback is at least supposed to distribute the ball to the right places within the offense. He's not doing that. And I'm not talking about the interceptions. I'm talking about plays left on the field consistently in this game. I think the Giants in this game and for stretches of this year have done a fine job of creating separation in their drop back passing game. Like I actually think they're doing some stuff that is interesting.

1:02:12Robert Mays: The players are decent, that the neighbors likely combo with some of the things that they're doing in the passing game, there is stuff to like there. And Jameis Winston is not able to access it right now. And so if he's not going to be able to get the ball to guys that are open on top of his propensity for turning the ball over, why should he be the starting quarterback for the Giants? There were no less than eight times in this game where Jameis Winston had somebody wide open and either straight up missed the throw despite making the correct read or just did not make the correct read and did not give them the ball.

1:02:45Like even on the first drive, by the way, was so ridiculous. They run two screens. The first one goes for negative two yards. The second one is swatted at the line of scrimmage by, I think, Chase Young. And then Jameis Winston has Isaiah Likely wide ass open over the middle, bending around the linebacker and just throws it like four yards behind him. I'm like, that's the easiest throw of the game. Like, how do you miss that? He had another instance where a little bit later in the game, somebody's running across are like wide open and he just doesn't want to throw it. There were multiple times where specifically on these like stop routes, he's just throwing it two yards inside and over somebody's head or he's not giving them a chance.

1:03:22The Martin Emerson pick when he's trying to throw it to neighbors on the left side, it's like a deep stop route. He just throws it three yards over his head. It's not even good coverage by Emerson. Neighbors just can't turn around and get up for it. And so there were just way too many moments like that from Winston. I think J.J. McCarthy is a better quarterback right now than Jameis Winston. And I don't think that really says anything about JJ McCarthy. Like this is not the Jameis Winston of three, four years ago where he's like borderline starting quarterback and he can give you some really good moments.

1:03:52This is like, this guy is not a playable starting quarterback anymore. And so at this point, if they want to give JJ some run, like I, I really don't see why not. At least he's athletic and we'll try some things. Jameis Winston can do neither of that.

1:04:06Robert Mays: If you, if the offense is going to be volatile and unreliable anyway why not put the guy out there who's at least toolsy yes yeah if you're gonna be up and down get the ups like Jameis Winston doesn't have the ups of volatile quarterback anymore he mostly just has the downs JJ McCarthy might have as many or even more downs in a bad week but at least he can like he's gonna chuck it he's gonna crow hop a couple times and just give Malik neighbors a chance he's gonna try to fire a deep over route like he was somewhat obviously you know the game script leads into some of the aggressiveness that he needs in the fourth quarter but like I think that that's his MO generally in a way that like Jameis Winston, it used to be, and it's just really not anymore.

1:04:47Robert Mays: Yeah, I want to be very clear that my desire to see J.J. McCarthy within the offense is not about however many yards J.J. McCarthy had in the fourth quarter of that game. J.J. McCarthy tried to throw like four interceptions over the course of that fourth quarter. This isn't a man, J.J. looked great. Let's see more of this. It's that my biggest takeaway about the Giants over the first three quarters of that game is I don't need to watch Jameis Winston play anymore. Yeah, I think that we're kind of done with that. I will say the other part of this game that for their offense overall, and I do think actually J.J.

1:05:19McCarthy might be able to help them in this sense. I was hoping the run game would be better this week. This is a Saints run defense that has been terrible all season long. And the Giants were like, fine, running the ball in this game. It wasn't the best. It wasn't the worst. they were like a middle of the pack in terms of success rate and stuff like that but they just weren't all that explosive and I I do think I I don't know if because of like you can tie the under center play action stuff better with JJ McCarthy like I don't know if I believe that but you could do some quarterback run game stuff with him like they were already doing it when he wasn't the starting quarterback and if they want to bring him now and have five six plays a game where Greg Roman is going to pull out some of the old stuff and put him in the gun and let him do some of that stuff that might give the offense another tool that it doesn't have right now and And so even if it's just for that reason, I think that that could be nice because I don't think the offensive line in the backs are not good enough to just print you a top 12 running game on its own.

1:06:13You're going to need to get a little bit weird with quarterback run game and stuff like that.

1:06:18Robert Mays: Yeah, that was the next thing I was going to bring up is that the run game is still obviously a big question mark and something that they're figuring out. I mean, what Harbaugh said after the game and them, the idea that Scadabo didn't get benched. He's just, we're just trying to find a different option. And that is kind of what it feels like. They probably are punishing him for the fumble, but at the same time, there are no backs on the roster that are so much more dynamic than anyone else where we have to give this guy the carries. And so I think the run game is currently constructed, even if the offensive line in theory is a group that should be a strength of this roster, the run game just isn't very good right now.

1:06:58Robert Mays: It's fine at best and I think held back, by what they're getting from the running backs overall. Yeah, 100%. And, you know, in this game, they don't have Andrew Thomas. I get that. But, like, the rest of the offensive line should be good enough and has had enough investment that you should be able to get some stuff going. But I just thought you saw some decent moments from the Saints front. Like, I thought Vernon Broughton had a good game. Colby Wooden had, I think, a pretty good game. Chase Young has been sensational all year. And so you just—a Saints run defense that has not been that good and still has some linebacker issues, them not being able to pick on them I think was a little bit concerning because that's what we said coming into this game right is like you're what do you want to know this because like what do we think about the New York teams and for the Giants I was like well this is a game where if your thing is we can run the ball and we can rush the other quarterback that's how we win games the rushing the quarterback they made the Saints play a different game that they wanted and so you kind of got proof of concept there but running the ball on their terms against the Saints defense that hasn't been able to hold up they really struggled to do that and that to me was a little bit like I don't know how good this thing is really going to be the last thing I'll say kind of tying all this together is that my biggest thought yesterday while watching the Giants and truly my biggest thought was I'm bummed that Jackson Dart is hurt yeah because there is enough stuff with the passing game with the construction of it with the pass catchers that they have where the fact that we didn't get to see a second year quarterback who had shown some flashes in this environment is a bummer.

1:08:30Robert Mays: It's a bummer for somebody who pays attention to the league. And if I were a Giants fan, I would really be lamenting that specific part of this season because they are doing more than enough design wise with a staff that we can all admit this. We had questions about coming in. Like what would this ultimately look like with Matt Nagy and his second go around as a primary play caller after the way that it went in Chicago, the way that it ended in Chicago, what the Saints, what the Chiefs looked like over the last couple of years. I think there's two things. One, that group has been better than I thought.

1:09:04And I don't know.

1:09:06Robert Mays: Part of me thinks that we owe Greg Roman an apology. After watching what the Chargers are this year, and I've gone back for reasons, I've gone back and watched more old Chargers games over the last couple of years than I care to admit over the last week. And I don't know, man. I think Greg Roman is probably fine. well here's this has always been the thing with greg roman greg roman undeniably gives you a floor as an offense undeniably you you will be an nfl offense especially in the run game it just always got to these points where it's like man is that really all we can be as a passing offense and i think maybe now i will say if the league is going to be a little bit more run heavy and move back to that sense like maybe a guy like him actually does become a little bit more valuable but i don't really blame any of those other teams for wanting to do something a little bit different Even if I do think he really did set floors in like, obviously he was there and helped with the Kaepernick Niners and stuff like that.

1:09:59But the Tyrod Taylor Bills, those teams did some really, really cool stuff with him there. Obviously what the Ravens were able to do when Lamar Jackson was there. Like they've and obviously the Chargers were we did always want something more, but they like they had a chance until their offensive lines completely exploded the way that they did.

1:10:16Robert Mays: Yeah, the 2024 Chargers, the pass catchers left a lot to be desired. It was Ladd and Quentin Johnston and Will Disley was heavily involved with that team. But when you go back and you watch it, the bones of it are fine. And I think that point about the floor and what he can establish, that is the reason that it sucks to not have Jackson Dart. Because that floor does exist. And this could have been a very useful early season experience for Jackson Dart in that sort of environment offensively. And now we're just not going to get it. it gives me hope about what next year can look like. You know, next year he comes back.

1:10:54Robert Mays: You have all of this stuff kind of carrying over. Maybe this one of their priorities this offseason is they go out and they try to find like a dynamic running back to pair with that offensive line. It's like, all right, let's see what this all looks like. But the fact that we don't get this year to try to build on as we move into that, it's something that if I were a Giants fan, I'd be like, God damn it. This should have been a season where we could really start to build excitement about what this thing could turn into. And now you just don't really get a chance to do that in a real way because the quarterback isn't playing.

1:11:27It's worse, too, because the only time we saw him in the Cowboys defense is terrible, especially week one. But the only time we really saw him, the offense was like a complete machine. And they probably wouldn't have looked that good over the course of the season. But it just when that's the only thing you get to hold on to for what this year looked like, you're like, oh, man.

1:11:45Robert Mays: It has been a strange season in the NFL so far. we're enjoying things we didn't necessarily think we would enjoy. I have hope in things I didn't necessarily think I'd have that much hope in. And I don't think it's going to get any clearer or easier as we move through the final 10 weeks of this thing. That is all we've got for today. Our Monday night recap will be available in your feeds on YouTube and your podcast feed overnight. I am not going to be on that show. That is going to be Dave and Derek. I'm heading to the airport straight from here for some athletic stuff. I will also not be on the Thursday night recap this week because I will be at Bears Patriots, but we will still have those coming your way.

1:12:23Robert Mays: Encourage you to check all of that stuff out for now. That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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