Week 6 Preview: Six for 6

0:00Derrik Klassen: 98 of the top 100 U.S. accounting firms trust Bill to simplify and secure Bill Pay. That's proven financial infrastructure built on over a trillion dollars of secure payments. Visit Bill.com slash proven for a special offer. Your daily supplement routine doesn't need to be managing a handful of different bottles. Onnit's Total Human brings key research-based vitamins, minerals, herbs, and amino acids together in convenient day and night packs. One all-in-one product designed to make supplementation easier. The Daypack supports cognition, focus, and cellular energy production. At night, the Nightpack helps you wind down and supports a calm, relaxed state.

0:42Derrik Klassen: Less time managing your supplements, more support for your day and night. Shop Total Human now at onnit.com. Teens spend an average of nine hours a day on screens outside of school. That's basically a full-time job just scrolling mindlessly. We all know how bad scrolling mindlessly is for us as adults. Think about how bad that could be for teenagers and even younger children. Here's the good news. There's a solution. A company called Gav has solved the problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is Tech in Steps. Tech in Steps works by providing safer phones and watches for kids with no social media, tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time.

1:24From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for tweens and teens, each device allows kids to more safely grow their independence. Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab, which keeps them socially connected without social media. Right now, use our code to get the best deal on a kid's phone that will make parenting easier and give you more peace of mind. Visit Gab.com slash football show and use code football show for an exclusive offer. That's Gab, G-A-B-B.

1:57Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show, brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. Week six is here. We didn't really feel like there was a game of the week this week, and so we just hit one extended thing from six different matchups. That's what we did today, and if I'm being honest, I kind of liked it. We're going to do that today. Six games we want to dig into. A little bit of time on Sicko Street with the Rams and Cardinals, which is not a place we thought we'd see the Rams six weeks into the season. And then we hit what we want to know coming out of week six with me, Derek, and Dave.

2:30Robert Mays: So let's get to that conversation right now.

2:41Robert Mays: It's the week six preview. We're going to do things a little bit differently this week. Looking at the schedule, there was not one big game that really jumped out to us. And so what we're going to do is we're going to blow out the one thing from that we typically do. Instead of doing three of those, we are going to do six of those. Focus on six games where one of us is going to start the conversation with a specific element of that game that we're interested in. And then we'll just kind of see where it goes from there. That's what we're going to do today.

3:08Derrik Klassen: It's a really diplomatic way of saying it's kind of a stinky Sunday.

3:12Robert Mays: There's a lot of good stuff. There's just not one game that really jumped out.

3:15Derrik Klassen: There's a lot of good stuff. There is not a matchup between two teams that you just feel kick-ass about.

3:21Robert Mays: Correct. I think often when I'm looking at the games of the week, the easy answers are, are there two teams at the table playing each other? If that happens, then let's do it. Are there two teams at the table playing each other right now? No. There are not. And so I think that doing it this way feels right for this weekend. Who knows?

3:38Derrik Klassen: We're going to try it out and just see how it fits. We're adaptable. Yes. Sometimes you run 50 plays of 13 personnel. Sometimes you trot the receivers out there.

3:45Robert Mays: This is the Tom Brady Patriots where some weeks we're giving Jonas Gray 50 carries, and then some weeks we're running the ball three times. Let's start with the Texans and the Jaguars in London. This is all me. I want to start this conversation by revisiting our Marvin Harrison Jr. trade discussion, Derek, from Monday. You believed earnestly that the power of friendship would save Marvin Harrison Jr. in Houston. That I do. Yes, I do. And as I have thought more about it, I'm more supportive of the deal than I had first thought. It's for a couple different reasons. One, talking to people there just about the role, how they see it, I actually do think his usage is going to be more in line with what I've wanted to see from him than even what we thought was going to happen in Arizona this year.

4:31Robert Mays: Even though the scheme changed this year, he still had been pretty much an X receiver, on the ball, vertical routes. and that combined with him being completely disinterested made it a pretty ugly start to the season for Marvin Harrison Jr. So having him with Nico Collins, having him play like more Z to X, running more in-breaking routes, just the way that offense is structured in Houston, I'm open to him looking as good as he's looked in the NFL period with like the usage and the buy-in. The other part of it is, as I've thought more about this, and honestly, part of it was going back to rewatch the All-22, every single drop back that CJ Stroud had on Monday, I'm with you guys where I have not given up hope on the 2026 Houston Texans, like for real.

5:12Robert Mays: And I think the idea of, well, he's going to be good this year and we'll figure it out next year. Part of me was like, man, one in four, is that really worth doing? And as I've thought more about it, I kind of think it might be. I think I'm fine with that mindset and line of thinking from the Texans in making this straight.

5:30Derrik Klassen: I have a couple of thoughts. And to go right off of the last one that you made. Who cares? A, who cares about a year from now when you're trying to make a push for a team that we thought of as a Super Bowl contender? And I'm really, I'm not that dissuaded by what we've seen. I know they're one and four, and this is a tough test that you kind of have to win to stay on track. But CJ Stroud's ball and the defense will come along as the season goes. Henry Toa Toa, I think his practice window opened this week. So you're getting healthier at linebacker. I'm not out on the Texans at all. And it makes me think of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers where a year ago it was like, do you need this many good receivers?

6:10Derrik Klassen: And look where they are a year later. And so doubling down on an important position where Nico Collins, unfortunately, has durability issues. Jaden Higgins, super excited about him. That's not something you can count on, especially coming off of a major injury. So I really don't have a problem with all of that. My only beef with the whole thing is I just can't believe it cost a two.

6:31Robert Mays: Yeah, it costs a lot. I cannot believe it. That part, I don't think there's any ambiguity on. Like, they overpaid for what he has been in the league this year. And that's a different conversation than whether I'm excited about how this will look and how this will work. Now that he's here, I get it.

6:46Derrik Klassen: Now that he's here, I get why you might be excited. But I can't get over that price tag. Like, George Pickens cost a three and a five. And George Pickens had accomplished far more in the NFL than Marvin Harrison Jr. has to this point. And obviously you've got his college quarterback there. You know, normally the Texans posted a highlight clip of CJ and Marv in college. And normally when a team is posting college highlights of a player, it's like, this is sad. Like, what are we doing? But when it's getting the band back together with CJ Stroud and Marvin Harrison, like, I think it hits a little bit harder.

7:18Derrik Klassen: The power of friendship. The power of friendship. And I really do think that like so much of Marvin Harrison's issues. And again, there have been some of like the effort on some of the blocking and the way that he's attacking routes. I think has been a problem. But I do think that there was always just like weird chemistry stuff with him and the quarterbacks that he was playing with. And now with CJ Stroud, there is no like there's no, you know, blanks to be filled in. Like, you know exactly what it's, you know, we haven't seen it in the NFL, but we've seen these two make each other look like top 10 picks at the college level.

7:46They're going to ask him, I think, to run a lot of the routes that he really likes to run, which is some of the over the middle breaking type of routes where it's not even just that the offense is going to ask him to do that. CJ Stroud is one of the best five quarterbacks in the NFL. at throwing those exact routes. And so I just think that like, I really do believe that this marriage can work. And kind of like you guys are saying, if there's still some stuff to talk about the run game and we'll get there, but when your quarterback is playing this way and your defense has the caliber it has, you can do it any given year if a couple of things just start to go right for you.

8:17Robert Mays: It's kind of my thought too, as I thought more about it and really sat with it. I think that's where I've landed. And I think also part of it is, we already have a Kayshawn Booty at home and I like Jalen Noel. And so I kind of wanted to see a little bit more Jalen Noel, but now Keishin Booty is a role player. Jalen Noel probably at this stage of his career is also a role player. And so the idea that they become your fours and fives and Xavier Hutchinson, or they become like your three and four now with Xavier Hutchinson, like all those guys really do slot in as like true role players. I think it all does make sense when you think about it.

8:49Robert Mays: But going back to the point that you just made, Derek, about, okay, defense, we still believe in. The quarterback is playing really, really good football. what happens with the run game? And that's my one thing from this game because I feel good enough about the rest of the Texans for this to all come together, for it to be worth it, for you to give up a second round pick for a receiver in a season where you're one and four, the run game is the thing that they really have to fix. That is what has to happen here. And so I was looking at some stats just about the state of the Texans and how weird their offense feels.

9:22Robert Mays: Because usually when a run game is really struggling in the way that the Texans run game is right now, it speaks to it's like a disease like it's it's a symptom of a larger disease where the offense does feel like there's something actually wrong with it it's unhealthy it's an unhealthy offense but the passing game looks really good and so i was like all right how many offenses are this efficient throwing the ball which the tech the texans are they're like not top nine in epa per drop back the numbers are pretty good and that's without nico collins i expect those numbers to get even better over the course of the season with a run game that is this bad since 2000 there are four teams that have finished an nfl season with an epa per drop back as high as the texans have right now and an epa per rush as low as the texans have right now four teams in 26 years have finished the season like this the 2020 texans when deshaun watson looked like the second best quarterback in the league why are the texans always coming with their run game being unable to do anything it might just be a curse on the entire organization the 2018 bucks which was that todd monken master class with fitz and james winston and then my favorite part of this the other two teams there's one matthew stafford team and one andrew luck team which is just so fitting just so incredibly appropriate for this exact problem that a team could have it's exactly what it feels like can't run the ball offensive line cannot really protect them but if they get an ounce of space in the pocket, these quarterbacks can go and make it work.

10:50And so it really does feel like that. And it's cool. Like for as much as I was high on CJ Stroud, I don't think that we were positive that that was going to be able to work. And the fact that the run game has been as bad as it is, and he has not only reached the level that we've seen him at before, he's playing better than he's ever been before. It really is like kind of incredible.

11:08Robert Mays: So this is all a round about way to kind of lead me to a point of, I think that there's hope this can get fixed, because usually when run games are this bad, it's because so much of the rest of the offense is also rotting at the same time. And I do think there are a couple specifics. I went back and just watched like so many of the run concepts over the first month of the season. Like, all right, what is worth salvaging here? And what is, where are they really struggling? So right now, and anecdotally, what we've said just anecdotally about the run game matches up with the numbers. When you think about the best runs that the Texans have had this year, almost all of them are gap scheme runs where they're pulling somebody.

11:44Robert Mays: almost all of them. The numbers bear that out. Per NextGen, they are 12th in the NFL in success rate on power and counter this year. They've run 30 of them, which is actually the most of any team in the NFL so far. They have a 43 % success rate on those plays. They have 35, that's sort of 30 of those runs. They have 35 reps of outside and inside zone. They are at a 20 % success rate on those runs, which is dead last in the NFL. 35 carries for 76 yards. they have run fewer of those plays than any other team in the league but they are 29th in total epa lost on those plays because they've been so inefficient on them this is easy just pull those plays out of the playbook just rip them out it that seems like you can't run power encounter 100 times a game because it is front dependent but derek and this and yeah yeah you probably will speak to this more than i would you can build a run game out of duo power encounter and just run it against all of those fronts.

12:44Robert Mays: And so that becomes my conclusion. The duo runs also haven't been great. Like they have a 20 % success rate on just man and duo runs combined. But anecdotally, again, when I look at their offense and what it is right now, especially with Woody Marks, I think his ability to be kind of explosive horizontally, where he doesn't have as good a feel for some of the zone runs, just trying to build this whole plane out of duo and gap scheme stuff with the offensive line that they have. And I also think Ed Ingram coming back is a big part of this conversation. He is a powerful run blocker. Like, again, he's the one pulling on all of those runs you're imagining that have hit for the Texans.

13:18Robert Mays: And so I think there is potentially light at the end of the tunnel for this run game if they lean into some of the stuff that they're good at.

13:26Derrik Klassen: I'm so glad you said light at the end of the tunnel. I know we talk and meme too often, but I'm just imagining the one where the guy's like with the pickaxe. It's like, don't turn back right before you get to all the diamonds. We're right there. It does feel like that a little bit, though. I do too like I and I don't think they're ever going to be a good run game but you can be good enough that this can work and you can build it out don't be bottom three just just don't be like

13:49Robert Mays: the 20th best run team in the league and you can make the playoffs yes and like again every team has to run every concept to some amount to keep teams honest but they I think with the duo that one is like a really heavy almost like that you know outside zone runs that's a very like chemistry type of run like you really have to know how you're working with the guy next to you and that I think is just the more you do it, hopefully these guys can get a little bit better at it. And then I do think with the gap scheme stuff, it fits the offensive line better. I think it also fits Woody Marks better.

14:15He's it's I think what they can be in theory is a watered down version of like what the Liam Cohen Bucks run game was where they were doing a lot of pulling and they were doing a lot of gap scheme stuff. And Woody is kind of a similar running runner to me to a Bucky Irving, where it's like just stretch runs outside zone, foot in the ground go not really what he does. but if he can pitter-patter a little bit around like a puller and then he can just bounce a run or like cut it back like yeah man that's kind of exactly what you want him to be doing and it's a

14:44Robert Mays: good point with the duo stuff where there it is chemistry based but the problem with the zone runs is it's chemistry based where you're having to feel how when you should be coming off of double teams but it also you have to climb to the second level and they can't move you don't have to do that right and you have these big guys like ursery is a big guy you have these big powerful alignment at some of these spots. And so I just think this is the path forward for them. I do think that if they tried to build a plane out of this, they would be able to do it. And the last point I'll make about this before we talk briefly about the Jags, Cade Stover, I think should be playing more.

15:16Robert Mays: That's, that's my other thought because they have all these tight ends and none of them have really developed as inline blockers. Like Foster Moreau is passable, but I, right now, I think Cade Stover is their best run blocker. And so I just think he should be playing more. I some of those 11 personnel staffs with Dalton Schultz on the field like I think he should be eating into some of those snaps because they're they're not a good enough run team for you to be limiting the work of what I think is your best run blocker right now he's not great I get there I think vision for him was more of that two-back stuff where he was used as a fullback he's good at that but right now I think you can make an argument he's their best inline run blocker along with doing some of that like de facto fullback stuff they were going to have him do so all this is to say I think there's potentially some hope here and the reason I think I'm cling to it is there's so much to like about the rest of the team right now and how it's playing okay

16:05Derrik Klassen: so we're all in agreement that this is a good one in four football team and we are not out on the Houston Texans does that matter right this week you're going to play the Jaguars because that

16:18Robert Mays: wanting to see a little bit more from the run game this is not the week to do it the Jags run defense is excellent. They are third in run defense success rate while playing light boxes at the fifth highest rate in the league. Watching the Jags defense right now is awesome. Like, they are so well coached. They've got just glass eaters up front. The way that Devon Hamilton and Trayvon Walker play the run, everyone is so bought in. Jordan Lewis, like watching Jordan Lewis as just a normal size nickel the way he defends the run. And I'll tell you what, man, there are a few guys in the league who have been as pleasantly surprising to me this year as ventral miller ventral miller is playing some awesome football for the jags you were talking about just duo and what it does to the to the linebackers and you're playing with them his just patience and feel and like you watch teams try to run that stuff against them and those guys are just completely in command like you see so many linebackers in the league right now where we're cats chasing lasers we're jumping into gaps all over the place and this group is just so incredibly well put together.

17:22Robert Mays: So maybe this isn't the week to see some of the fruit from what I'm talking about, but I wanted to sit with it a little bit because after the Marv trade, it really was the biggest lingering question I had about what the Texans can be.

17:32Derrik Klassen: It just makes it painful that really the Colts game and the Cowboys game too, but like those two games, if you could have found a way to win one, I'd feel so much better about Houston. And with the jet, like you, you gotta, you gotta find a way to win this game. I mean, And the schedule eases up a bit after this, but I just wonder if the hole they've dug themselves is too deep, especially going to London, by the way. And the Jags have been there, so the acclimation is a different story for them. It's a tough draw for a team still trying to figure it out.

18:04Robert Mays: Last thing to mention, I think, Anton Harrison obviously not playing in this game, and now you're dealing with the Texans' edges. So the Jags' offensive line was always kind of a concerning point, even with probably not playing the way that he was, even with Harrison. But without Harrison taking that step that we've seen from him so far was a part of that optimism. Him being out and now you got Walker Little and Colvin Landon. It's like now it's more of a concern and you're about to play against that group of guys. And sometimes you can, you know, sometimes offenses are perfectly equipped to deal with, oh, we're just going to get quick pressures all the time.

18:35If you're like a quick passing team, but that is the Jags have built themselves to be the opposite of that. They want to hold the ball for three seconds and chuck it down the field. It's a little bit harder to do that if the blind side of the pocket is getting caved in every single rep.

18:47Robert Mays: let's get to our next one here bears at Falcons Dave this is all you one thing you are paying

18:53Derrik Klassen: attention to in Bears Falcons the entry point here is pretty obvious Caleb Williams is expected back after his hamstring injury in week two and I would posit to you you know this better than anybody the Bears offense the preferred Bears offense is probably the unit we've seen the least of through five weeks so far this season we got four quarters and then they played against Brian Flores in a brainstorm and then we never saw the offense again and so they're back in week six i'm curious about what it's going to look like for a few reasons obviously of course you're just curious to see what caleb williams is going to look like i i even if he's superman and he's obviously like a freakish athlete probably not at 100 full capacity coming off of the hamstring three weeks later is

19:39Robert Mays: that just like a hunch thing yes it's absolutely i there's part of me that i understand why you're saying that but I also it's been a while like he's been out for multiple weeks it sounded like he was questionable last week and potentially could have played and they didn't play him I'm maybe I'm just coping I'm open to the idea that he might be healthy and he might be ready to go and that they actually have brought him along at the right pace here is that the fun

20:02Derrik Klassen: thing am I deluded maybe I don't know maybe a little thing is we're not we're not gonna have to wait long to find out because what does Caleb do the first time something breaks down

20:11Robert Mays: I mean, he makes a crazy play and has like a 20-yard scramble. That's what's going to happen because he's healthy and it's going to be fine.

20:17Derrik Klassen: I hope you're right. I'm curious to see what it looks like. I'm also outside of that because obviously that's so obvious and it changes everything about who the Bears are.

20:27Robert Mays: But I want to say with that just for a second, there's been a lot of consternation this week about the pass catchers because Matt Harmon did a great job of writing about it for Yahoo. He was like, I know you're freaking out about all these guys. I was like, let's take a beat and try to figure out exactly what's happening. And I get it. Colson Loveland's season is one of the most bewildering things about the NFL so far this year. The fact that a man who looked like one of the 20 best players in the league during the playoff, I don't know what the number is. He looked like a star in the playoffs last year, and he's been a complete non-factor over the first month.

20:58Robert Mays: It's just bizarre. We have not seen the offense in like any form so far. And so I'm willing to wait and see before we start having any big picture panic about how the guys are being used. Can I be blunt?

21:10Derrik Klassen: Bears fans don't know how to be good. The fact that you went two and one on offensively backs, you went two and one with backup quarterbacks and were panicking about guys not looking good enough. Shut up. Respectfully. Sorry. Like, what are we doing?

21:25Robert Mays: I think it's more about the fantasy community than it is Bears fans, though. That's okay. Which I get. I understand. If you drafted Colson Lovelin in the third round, I'd be pissed off.

21:35Derrik Klassen: you lost the quarterback in week two, and week two was just a no-go game for everybody. It's not like the Vikings looked good either. Offensively, I mean. And so to be where the Bears are after how this has all started, and I'm sorry about your fantasy draft. Look, I have Luther Burden on a team or two. I get it. I'm not thrilled either. But in terms of the Bears, they're fine, at least so far. I am a little bit worried about their run game, and I'm curious to see what it looks like. A, where Caleb is, and B, this thing's beat to shit, and I'm slightly concerned about it, if I can be honest with you.

22:14Derrik Klassen: I wanted to bring this to y 'all. Do you think the Bears need help at running back? Because watching DeAndre Swift's usage in the second half last week, and he is on the injury report with multiple things. He's got a knee and a hip, and Kyle Monungay has turf toe to the point that he saw a specialist last week. He's not on IR, maybe specialist, not a special. You don't want to know. You don't want to be seeing a specialist turf toe sucks for a running back specifically. I mean, you're talking about the ligament in your in your big toe in the salt, like in the pad of your foot that allows you to cut and drive forward.

22:51Derrik Klassen: Seems bad. And watching the Bears run game last week, I understand that it was with a backup quarterback, but for how much Ben Johnson runs shit through his running game, I'm a little bit concerned about it.

23:03Robert Mays: I don't think that's weird at all. I feel the same way because I think a lot of people just assumed, okay, no, Monunga, Swift is just going to get 35 carries. And one, they didn't run the ball that often. Two, Ben Johnson came out this week and said explicitly, we're not going to do that. I don't believe in that. We're not going to put that much on a guy like DeAndre Swift. We believe in running back by committee. We want to keep these guys fresh over a 17-game season. And so if you're committed to that, and they were willing to ride Monungay in the Jets game, but Monungay is a different sort of player than DeAndre Swift is.

23:35Robert Mays: I think that's important to acknowledge. And so the fact that we, if he's going to have that mindset, and right now we're at a spot where that means a decent amount of Roshon Johnson carries, we saw what those were. It was just a non-starter. And so I'm with you. My only pushback would be, who is it? Running back depth in the NFL right now, I think in large part just because we had a zero with this running back draft class, there are just so many teams that would love another body at running back right now. I don't think there's like a running back three sitting out there that a team's like, oh yeah, we'll throw you that.

24:07Robert Mays: There just aren't that many of them. Well, and I think to me, if I'm just looking at like the running back threes all around the league right now, the only one where I'm like, I could maybe trade for him and give him eight carries a game is like Ray Davis for the Bills. You might be the best team in the NFL. Why are you giving up useful, like special teams players? Exactly. Like they're the only team that has a good running back three, but there's no shot they would give him up. He was huge in the game. They just played against the Rams. And I don't I wouldn't even say he's running back three.

24:34Robert Mays: I would say him and Ty Johnson are running back two on the same line, because if James Cook got hurt, Ty Johnson isn't getting a majority of the running back work. And so even that Ray Davis is more of a backup running back than he is a third string running back.

24:47Derrik Klassen: I think you're probably just stuck. And this could be true. I don't want to be an alarmist, but you need to just hope that Monungay's injury really is just something he can manage. But that's what it is, by the way. Like, if you're a running back and the issue is with the ball of your foot, you're managing that all year long. And that's what concerns me is just how much is that going to affect the run game. I also thought from a—in the run game specifically, like, Garrett Bradbury did not have a wonderful day against Green Bay. He hasn't been a great period this year.

25:18Robert Mays: It has been an issue. Their run game has been inconsistent. I mean, they've had moments where it's looked absolutely dominant, but it has been a little bit up and down. I think the backs are part of that.

25:27Derrik Klassen: Even with the two big days that they had, because they went crazy against Carolina and they went crazy against the Jets, they're still middle of the pack in rushing success rate. They were third last year. Like, it's 38 % versus 45 % right now. And, of course, a big part of that could be Caleb not being available. I just, I want to see. I want to see what it looks like. And the Falcons, they obviously got gashed by Baltimore last week, but they've been really good at limiting big runs and rushing success for most of the year. If Baltimore doing it with Derrick Henry doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be able to replicate that.

26:04Derrik Klassen: I'll say this.

26:04Robert Mays: The two games where they had below a 46 % rushing success rate and the game where they had the 46 % was a game where they rushed for like 260. They rushed for 232 yards against the Jets. it was against the Packers last week and I think it's so hard to run the ball efficiently when there is absolutely no respect being paid to the quarterback that you're playing against and it was against the Vikings in that game every other game they've been 46 percent or above so I do think that in total the running game is probably going to be okay but the backs is they're absolutely a worthwhile consideration I do think Caleb will stabilize this for sure I think Caleb will stabilize it I think this to me also is like I think it's an issue for the long term of like what how good can the offense really be over the course of the season I do think this week they'll be okay like I actually think that like last week was kind of almost a simulation for you know Declan Doyle is coming off of the Ben Johnson tree they run some of the same stuff I do think that the Ravens were a little bit more gap heavy than like Ben Johnson teams typically are in that Falcons game but they're running more zone than any team in the league right now and they haven't been that great at it the Bears the Bears yeah exactly like Ben Johnson's a big zone guy.

27:11And I think with in that Ravens game against the Falcons, it was a lot more gap stuff. I think the Bears can do some of that. But even on the zone stuff, I will say I do think the Bears offensive line matches up specifically like I just think that against some of these attack fronts, the way that Atlanta tries to play, if you're big enough, he's just not going to get into the backfield. And so I do think that they at least match up OK this week.

27:34Robert Mays: Yeah, I will say overall, I agree with that. And I think actually, you can argue their best path in this game is really running the ball efficiently. When you were looking at this, when I was doing this three weeks ago and Caleb got hurt, and you're looking at the next month, you're thinking, all right, well, Atlanta, you know, that you feel good about that one. Him coming back against this defense, the way that this defense is playing, this is not a walkover game. Like the defense is playing very well, even if they have some issues.

28:00Derrik Klassen: And so we're getting back to our 2025 roots on Sunday because this looks like it's going to be a first to 45 wins kind of game.

28:07Robert Mays: But I just mean the Falcons defense is not a bad unit. The Falcons defense has played well. And so it's more of like a rude welcome back for Caleb than you might have thought if you had the Falcons game circled as the one where he'd be back.

28:18Derrik Klassen: Jervon Dexter and Brandon Dorliss leading the NFL in interior pressures. We need more attack fronts in the league.

28:25Robert Mays: We need more teams embracing the attack front because I think that you're seeing a lot of benefits from it. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. Football season has arrived, and with the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase, including at the stadium or at home watching on a brand new TV. Score big with unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase. Visit usbank.com slash smartlycard to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions may apply.

28:55You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat? The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, or the tee you somehow always reach for first. Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy, and that's what Quince does best. Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100 % Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day. Their 100 % Mongolian cashmere sweater started to$60, giving you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag.

29:32And when the temperatures start to drop, as they have, at least where I live, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples with premium down jackets and classic wool outerwear. Versatile layers designed to keep you warm and comfortable all season long. So like I said, here in the Upper Midwest, we are into the cooler time of the year. Fall is here. It's been a beautiful start to the fall. One thing I love about the fall, I mean, I love a lot of things about the fall, for being honest. But one extra thing that I love, my Quince jacket. Obviously, it had to go into the closet for the summer.

30:01But now that that's gone, fall is here. The jacket, it's back out. Feels great. Looks great. Goes perfectly with what I want to be doing in the fall. Not just wearing, but also outside doing in the fall. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to Quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was The Athletic Football Show. It's the best way to support our show. Hey, look, I'm a lucky guy. I get to talk about, think about, watch football for a living with people who I consider my friends.

30:39It really doesn't get much better than that. But even with a job like that, there's one, maybe two things that I don't necessarily quite love that much. What are they? I'm not going to say. The bosses might be listening. But of course, there is that one, maybe two things that if I could push it off, I would. This is probably true for most of us. And if you're a small business owner, it might be payroll. Gusto is here to take that entirely off your plate so it becomes the easy part of your job instead of the dreaded one. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software for small businesses. It's all in one, remote friendly and incredibly easy to use.

31:13So you can pay, hire, onboard and support your team from anywhere. Automated payroll tax filing, simple direct deposits, health benefits, commuter benefits, workers' comp, 401k, you name it. Gusto makes it simple and has options for nearly every budget. Save time with built-in automated tools, offer letters, onboarding docs, direct deposit, and more. It's quick and simple to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running fast. Plus, don't pay a cent until you run your first payroll. Try Gusto today at gusto.com slash athletic football and get three months free when you run your first payroll.

31:47That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com slash athletic football. One more time, gusto.com slash athletic football.

32:03Robert Mays: Let's get to the next one here. Sticking in the NFC North Packers hosting the Cowboys on Sunday night football. Derek, this is you, buddy. One thing you're looking for in Packers Cowboys. I mean, we're coming off a game where the Cowboys have been fine replacing the Blitz this year. Their game against Tampa was as bad as I've ever seen Dak and really the Cowboys offense trying to handle the Blitz, whether it was allowing free rushers or not having answers when they were throwing their one on ones and their corners losing. Who would you put that on? Like, who do you think deserves the most culpability with that?

32:36Robert Mays: It's obviously hard to know, but I'm just curious if you spun back through it, what were your impressions? I thought Tampa Bay did a really, really good job of so Dallas was consistently trying to block everything up with just the five offensive linemen and the back. And they were saying, we're going to have six and we're going to be able to sort it out. And they were wrong because what Tampa kept doing consistently was either they would like you double mug opposite the back and then you make him cross protect and go sort it out with the guard, which I think they did a poor job of doing. or you double mug to the back, which is put a player in the A gap and the B gap as standup players.

33:11And then you fire another safety or the nickel behind them. And you're just like bodies, bodies, bodies. He can't block everybody. And I just think that Dallas movie, by the way,

33:19Robert Mays: bodies, bodies, bodies. If you're looking for a Halloween movie to watch this month, really good one. Yeah, funny, funny getting a random movie reference for me, even though I have not seen that movie. I'm going to count it. Yeah, I, but yeah, I think that they did a really, really good job of that against the Cowboys. and the Cowboys were kind of unwilling to put a tight end into the formation and help them out with pass pro as much as I think that they needed to. And then I think it was that on top of like, I think the Bucks corners just played out of their mind. Like defending all the ones that they want one-on-ones that they did, I thought they just played out of their mind.

33:50This to me is a Packers defense that some of their blitz stuff is okay. And they do some of this stuff that I'm talking about. I don't think they're as good at it as Todd Bowles. And then I also now Dallas is getting 10 days to prep for it. And also, I just their corners are not going to win the one on ones the same way that the Tampa guys were like those guys are longer. They're Diane McCollum is longer. Jacob Parrish isn't as big, but he is just very, very aggressive. The Packers corners, I think, are a little bit more gettable, especially in that one on one throw it outside the numbers. Our guy can find it.

34:21So I just think if you're Dallas and your whole thing is our offense has to win us games. This is a good get back on track team against A Packers offense that is like middle of the pack in blitzing, like they'll do it and they'll make you win it. And so I just think I'm hoping to see the offense get back on track there.

34:37Robert Mays: I don't want to take too much of a detour here, but I'm just curious where you guys are with this. What do you think of the Packers right now?

34:47Derrik Klassen: Long, dramatic pause. I think the Packers have done a good job of stabilizing what looked like a five alarm fire. I agree. I don't know. And so what does that mean? I don't know what it means in the big picture. I don't know how good I actually think they are, but they're not a disaster anymore, which they were through the first two or three weeks of the season. Like I, one stat I looked up for this game, they're up to like, since plugging Lake and Tomlinson and Travis Glover in and Kevin Zeitler might play a role this week. We'll see their 19th in rushing success rate after what it looked like last.

35:22Derrik Klassen: It helps to play the bears,

35:24Robert Mays: which we didn't mention that in the Falcons preview. there's a chance Bijan goes for 250 in this game. Oh, yeah, that's what I meant by first to 45.

35:30Derrik Klassen: I mean, the Falcons are going to get theirs in that game. Don't worry. Yeah, I mean, hey, they beat the shit out of the Bears. Credit to them. I don't know what that means in the big picture. I am impressed. I'm impressed that the Packers look like a functional football team after the first few weeks.

35:46Robert Mays: Here's my read on it. I think the biggest question about the offense was going to be whether the line was going to get to a functional place in pass protection. Because if that happened, I think the quarterback is a really, really good player. What Christian Watson looks like right now, what Matthew Golden looks like right now.

36:07Derrik Klassen: So I hear you. And what I was about to say is like, OK, but what is doing that to the Bears mean? But they get the Cowboys this week. But that's what is doing it to the Bears mean?

36:16Robert Mays: I think that's a fair thing. But I don't know where they are. Like if they and the Cowboys might not be the right barometer either. But if their pass protection is good enough with the way that the quarterback is playing, with the receivers that they have, I do think that they've got a lot of firepower. Like, I actually do think they're dangerous. And all offseason, when we talked about the line, I understood your guys' concern about the line. I get it. But this team, and the Bears game is a perfect example, and maybe it's not the best example because they got a beat on those guys. LaFleur is one of the best pass protection coaches in professional football.

36:51Robert Mays: He has been for a very long time. You talk to other guys who work with him. That is the best thing that he does. The plan that they have is always really, really good. If the talent is just passable, if the talent can feel passable and we get to a place where they can keep the quarterback upright and he's playing like this and they've got the flamethrowers out there that they have. I don't know, man. Like, I still think they're pretty dangerous. I think offensively, yes. They to me feel like almost the same exact conversation we just had about the Texans, where it's like you have enough firepower at receiver, the offensive line is up and down, but if it can be enough for the quarterback the way that he's playing right now, we can be a really explosive and good offense.

37:29The difference for me is I still need to see it from this defense. I know that like -

37:34Robert Mays: Micah comes back sooner rather than later. And maybe that does change things, but the only time they've played a starting quarterback this year, not in a rainstorm the way that they did against the Jets, was the Michael Pennix Falcons. And they barely won that game. Yeah, they barely won that game, but it was the Michael Pennix Falcons game and he, they beat the hell out of them. They dropped 35 on them. This, all that is totally right. I guess I'm just at a place where I'm like, I don't know what to do with this team. I just, I don't know what to do with them. I don't know what to do with them.

38:03Robert Mays: They are alive. I don't know what to do with them.

38:05Derrik Klassen: I will go. I'll go the opposite way. I really, I am willing to ignore the defense basically because Micah Parsons is a field tilter who can, I've said that I've been consistent about that all year where it's like all bets could be off when he's back. It's just a matter of what you look like when he gets there and they're alive. So credit to them. I want to see what they look like going against a defense that can hang. And that's not the Bears. And it probably won't be the Cowboys this week. It's not going to take anything away from them. It won't be the Lions. It might not be the Panthers after that.

38:37Derrik Klassen: It might be a while from now, but that shit can look pretty like a bad offensive line play can just wreck everything, no matter what Christian Watson's doing. And the offensive line looks better. and maybe that'll be a trend, but I'm just going to sit back and wait. I'm going to push back a little bit.

38:53Robert Mays: The Bears are not good on defense. I'm more worried about the Bears' defense than any of you because I live with it every minute of every day. But they had looked okay previously. They had not looked like a dumpster fire, and the Packers just did that.

39:06Derrik Klassen: Derek and I told you weeks before that ever happened that it was fraudulent stats.

39:11Robert Mays: I knew that, though. I knew they were fraudulent, but they are not dead last in defensive DVOA. They have been fine to like two points this season. They have made NFL offenses struggle, and the Packers did that to them. I don't think they're good by any stretch. I think they're actively bad, but I still think doing that to a defense that has just been merely bad this season, there's some signal in that. We should pay attention somewhat to that. It shouldn't just be like, eh, it's the Bears. The Bears had been a NFL defense through the first four weeks of the year.

39:44Derrik Klassen: Still don't pay super close attention to the Panthers game, But yeah, sure. I'm just I hear you. I'm not trying to shit on the Packers, but I'm perfectly comfortable just letting them hang out here and and see what they do. And their season looked like it was over after three weeks. And the fact that that it's here now is is good and impressive and a testament to them.

40:06Robert Mays: The fact that we're used as alive, that they're alive, in real time when they lost that game against the Falcons, I made a joke to Derek about in Widow's Bay with the serial killer when she follows him into the crematorium and is just like, I'm going to watch this until the final moment because I don't believe it. That's how I am with the Green Bay Packers, and I am vindicated right now in this moment. They have revived themselves. I will say, even though they have revived themselves, themselves i'm still angry it took this i'm still upset with them that they went into week one with those guards and had to sign lake and tomlinson off the street like what are we doing you know

40:46Derrik Klassen: what though like the packers think they're better than desperation signings they are that's that's 100 right it's refreshing to see them be like oh yeah okay we got to do this before we get out of

40:57Robert Mays: here talking about the current state of the dallas cowboys what a week for the dallas cowboys defense and just in the media. I mean, we got players only meetings. We are speed running. Everything is falling apart beat by beat. We got players only meeting three days. We're hiring defensive assistants like Mike Patton to come in and try to stabilize this thing. We're having conversations about whether the defensive coordinator is going to be on the field or in the booth. They're speed running it. Everything like it usually takes like you trickle this in over a couple of weeks. I will move the defensive coordinator.

41:28Then we'll hire a guy, all this stuff. The fact that it's all happened at once feels very like we'll see if this gets to Halloween, sort of like how fast that this is unraveling. Which is to me would be ridiculous. But my favorite part is Jerry's and Jerry Jones loves to do this.

41:44Derrik Klassen: He'll get on the radio and say what happened in the staff meeting that morning on the radio before anybody else has a chance to say anything. So he's like, yeah, Christian Parker is going to move to the booth. And Brian Schottenheimer was like, well, we're still talking about that. And I covered this team for 10 years. Typically when the coach says that, he's like, yeah, that's what's going to happen, but I got to save some face here. But then Christian Parker came out Thursday and said, I'll probably be on the sidelines. So now the coaching staff is contradicting what the owner said on the radio.

42:15Derrik Klassen: Maybe the owner shouldn't say that on the radio. That whole sentence is a separate issue. Kind of explains the Dallas Cowboys just in general. So we'll see how all that goes.

42:23Robert Mays: I don't want it to seem like I'm running from the Christian Parker conversation. We actually have a space for it next week where we're actually going to explore some of this in depth. And so I just want to put that out there. I just want people to know that there is a more considered look at this coming a little bit further down the road. We don't have to do that during the week six preview. Let's get to Ravens-Browns. Dave, you are on Ravens-Browns. One thing you were looking for in this one is what?

42:50Derrik Klassen: Well, I'm emotionally invested in this because I drafted the Browns defense in our EPA per play draft. pretty highly, I might add.

42:58Robert Mays: I just want to say right now, with the way that's going and the fact that I have the Cowboys, not only am I going to buy you guys dinner, if the Cowboys finish 30th or lower in defensive VBA per play, I am going to donate a significant amount of money to a local Dallas charity. I just want you guys to know that right now. Oh, I can help you out with that. I'm going to ask you what the right ones would be. Dinner for us three is not enough for me to pay for what I have done. I need to do some good with my wallet if that ends up happening. Just want to throw that out there right now. Anyway.

43:33Derrik Klassen: Selfishly, I am invested in this Browns defense. And similar to what you're talking about with the Cowboys, after week one against the Jags, I was like, ah. But very quietly, they are a really good NFL defense. And so through five weeks, even if you include the Jags game, they're 11th in defensive DVOA. They're playing good ball ever since. How real is that is the question. They did have a nice day against Carolina, who is a top 10 offense. Their pass rush ruined the game.

44:05Robert Mays: Yes. Their pass rush is of the quality that can ruin a football game. And we're going to talk about the Panthers offense here in a second. Panthers offense has been a top bullet, like with a bullet top 10 unit, like nothing fraudulent about that. And the Browns pass rush completely dismantled them in that game. They had no shot.

44:22Derrik Klassen: Their other opponents are a little bit fraudulent. You have the Baker Bucks, and Baker was just having a terrible start to the year. The Steelers, who were very schizophrenic, and then the Jets in a downpour all day last weekend. Still impressive, but I mean, the Ravens is going to be a different test entirely. And I would say that even if Lamar Jackson can't go,

44:47Robert Mays: I don't know the answer to that right now. He didn't practice today, but he wasn't at practice. I saw Jeffrey Zarebeck tweeted that out right before we started recording. But it sounds like he's probably going to play. Is that where we're at? I think you nailed it. Yes. Okay. We're probably not going to know until. Look at me go. We're not going to know until we know, obviously. But it sounds like that's the right direction. I hope he plays.

45:08Derrik Klassen: I'm tired of this. He's playing so well. I want him back. Here's the funny thing, though. I still think this is a huge test for the Browns, even if Lamar doesn't play. because so much of Cleveland's success is their top five in pressure rate. They're one of six teams with 16 sacks. And that's without Jared verse even getting going from a sack perspective. They're top four in EPA per drop back against the pass, 11th in drop back success rate. They're awful against the run. They are a bad run defense right now. And I think so much of it is tackling. Only five defenses so far this year have missed more tackles than Cleveland.

45:48Derrik Klassen: And it's some teams you don't want to be lumped in with the Cowboys, the Bills, the Broncos, who even with, you know, some of their numbers are better. They've missed just a ton of tackles this year. They are allowing three and a half yards after contact per rush, which, again, is fifth worst in the NFL. They're also, I think this outlines it very perfectly. The Browns are the second best defense in the league in producing plays that gain zero or negative yards only behind the Vikings. They're also bottom 10 in the percentage of plays that gain 10 plus yards, like 22 % of plays against them gain 10 or more yards.

46:27Derrik Klassen: And I think a big part of it is they just miss tackles. Like go back and watch the Jets game. The Garrett Wilson touchdown, Ronnie Hickman just misses a tackle in space that turns like an 11-yard gain into an explosive touchdown. Several of Braylon Allen's biggest runs, he bounced off of Denzel Ward. He cut back against like a crowded gap into another one and was off to the races. Are you willing to tack that up to conditions? That can happen where you just tackle like shit in a game where it's raining all day. Maybe, but the numbers bear out that it's just been a consistent problem throughout the season.

47:01And I mean, the conditions were horrid, but I mean, if you wrap your arms around a guy in the rain, I don't bring him down.

47:09Derrik Klassen: I don't know. Like football is meant to be played in the rain. We play these games in the rain. I don't that doesn't hold water with me. Pardon the pun. But I think they're so close to being a really fantastic defense. And I think the Ravens are really good at what they don't do well. And so it's this is this is a great rubber meets the road matchup for me. is Mason Graham going to play in this game? That's their injury list is insane. And so we'll see what it looks like. But like, as of, I looked this up last night, so I don't know if they've practiced as of today, but Derek Barnett's on the injury report, Malik Collins, Kalia Davis, Mason Graham, Mike Hall, Carson Sueshinger is dealing with an ankle injury.

47:50Derrik Klassen: He suffered during the jets game. So you, you hope some of those guys are available because this could be a different conversation entirely.

47:59Robert Mays: Malik Collins wouldn't practice Wednesday. and neither did Mason Graham but I mean a lot of guys didn't my god that's it's a long list and that's bad if you cannot because I mean the whole thing about the Ravens run game is like if you can get into the backfield against Derrick Henry and like get a hand on him or like force the run to bounce in a way that he doesn't want you can stop them and that's really all that Cleveland wants to do as a run defense they want to fire these backers they want to fire the defensive tackle stunt them stem them whatever it's going to be to get into the backfield and And if you, I think even if they have their guys healthy, that's kind of difficult to do, I think, with just how well coached I think the Ravens' offensive line is.

48:37Exactly.

48:37Robert Mays: If you know what you're hunting, you can have big games. The best example of this, obviously it's a different coaching staff, ironically, the head coach of the Browns right now. Remember that Christmas game they played against Houston two years ago where they were just hunting the runs against that attack front and they just ran for a bazillion yards? even against good defenses if you have a good plan against some of these attack fronts you can get gashes it used to happen to the even the best versions of the Niners all the time where like they would just get Bosa chasing stuff where they would get just like slam a trap run against one of the defensive tackles flying up the field whether it's Eric Armstead or whoever like you can you can get them and so that that's going to be true again even if Graham is playing even if Malik Collins is playing if they're not and it's backups who are also going to be a step slower and maybe not know that they're about to get year hold by a guard, there's a chance that the Ravens could just run away with this game again.

49:29Derrik Klassen: To that point, I rewatched the Browns Jets game. Joe Tipman's day against the Browns was such an amazing example of how hard it is to play offensive line in the NFL. Because if you watch the game on TV, and he had some really bad moments, like Malik Collins just swam him clean for just an embarrassing sack. and he drew a holding flag. And he was also the guy that couldn't get around to Carson Swessinger on the strip sack that played a big role in the fourth quarter. Like he had two or three horrific moments and people were killing him for it. Go watch the game. And he was just mauling the Browns linebackers in the run game.

50:10Derrik Klassen: Like, and like getting to the second level, just cutting guys out of the play. They were gashing Cleveland in the run game because of how well the interior was playing. And nobody gives a shit because you give up like three splash plays. And I think the Ravens offensive line is capable of doing similar stuff if the Browns aren't on it, or unfortunately, if they're not healthy too.

50:30Robert Mays: We're in a spot right now where I think it's just, what are these defenses? You know, like what are these teams? Like we're still only five weeks in. In the Browns case, again, they played a weather game. They played some strange games. I look at the Browns defense right now. I look at the talent they have at all three levels, and I look at some of the stuff Mike Rutenberg has done over the first five weeks. I think I'm kind of bought into this. Like, I think they have enough talent at all three levels. I asked you Derek, uh, in the production meeting right now, outside of San Francisco, I think we can tack that up with the way that green laws played.

51:00Robert Mays: And the fact that Fred Warner is Fred Warner, who has the best linebacking court in the NFL right now. I think my, my answer right now, based on how they played would probably be Jacksonville. I just think that both those guys are playing at such a high level, but Cleveland is absolutely in the conversation. Like they're on the podium or they're in your Mount Rushmore, however you want to bucket it right now. Quincy Williams was a maniac in that Jets. Power of friendship. Quincy Williams back with Mike Rudenberg. Back with Mike Rudenberg, which I talked about coming into the season. And it's a bit better than I thought.

51:29I know, I was giving you credit. He's been out of his mind. And I mean, like a hat trick of forced fumbles is crazy, which is what he did last week. Some of that is maybe, you know, you're playing a not so great team, but still almost impossible to do. To your point, though, like, I really do think that there's a group of like three or four teams that you can mention after the nine. It's like it's the Browns. It's the Jags. The Seahawks, I think kind of even though Drake Thomas is a very specific player, I think that that they are in there if they're healthy, the Texans guys, but they have not been.

51:59But like after that, like that to me does feel like it's tier. And the fact that, you know, last year, it felt like to me with Devin Bush on the Browns, they were getting by. They were using him in a very specific way. He was only a downhill player and it kind of worked OK, but it really was Swessinger holding a lot of the holding a lot of the weight for them there. Quincy Williams is pulling his own on this linebacking unit. They're really, really good.

52:21Robert Mays: The front is good. Mason Graham was playing the best ball of his career before he got hurt. I'm excited to see him back. We talked about Malik Collins versus what he is. The linebackers are good. The outside corners are solid. Emmanuel McNeil-Warren's playing well. Overall, I think that a lot of the sliding doors things with this defense, like what do we get from the rookies? What do we get from the second-year players? What do we get from the new scheme? I think a lot of those kind of sliding doors things where it was like, eh, it could kind of go either way. A lot of them have turned up in favor for the Browns defense so far.

52:49Robert Mays: And I think that's why I'm bought into this. It may not look good this week because if Lamar is back, I truly think the Ravens defense, the Ravens offense is about as potent as any in the league right now, just with the way Lamar is playing and how dialed in Declan Doyle is. The idea that, I don't know, they're slow playing the Cam Jurgis thing. They're like, ah, he'll get up to speed. The fact that they even feel comfortable enough doing that, I think speaks to how good everything probably feels over there right now. They probably rewatched Venga. You want it playing center last week? And they were like, oh, we're we're OK.

53:20Take your time.

53:21Robert Mays: Take your time. Yeah, you'd go at your own leisure, my friend. Let's get to our next one here. Panthers at Eagles. This one's mine. A little bit of a curveball thrown in here. Jalen Hurts now out with the blood clot in his leg. What do you make of the timeline with all of this? I was like reading a little bit about it while we were prepping. It came across while I was driving in. Like the fact that they kind of saw it before the game, but then he still played. You as somebody who was like around a team very closely for a long time. I'm curious what your read on this is from that perspective.

53:53Derrik Klassen: When I read it, I just thought to myself, I trust that the doctors know what they're looking at and are giving him good advice. I would not want to play a football game if somebody found a blood clot anywhere in my body to the point where like football players are crazy. Kudos to Jalen Hurts. He's obviously a tough son of a gun. That's another level for me where I'm just like, man, take care of yourself, please, Lord. And I'm just glad. Remember the eight-hour flights back and forth? I'm glad it has a... I'm glad this is a benign update. Like, I'm glad this is no big deal, apparently. Because when I first saw it, I was like, man, I know they got to, like, tie you to a chair to keep you from playing a game.

54:39Derrik Klassen: but that's a different level for me. That's not gutting it through a sprain or something. Those words scare the shit out of me. I'm not a medical professional, but that was my initial reaction.

54:51Robert Mays: Overall, I don't really know what else there is to say about the Eagles, like the perspective from the Eagles here. This season is spiraling. I mean, I give them so much credit. We did in real time for the way they played against the Jags. I mean, the idea that they came out, And if it didn't go off the rails in the final 10 seconds of the game, they beat the Jaguars in London with Jalen Hurts and whoever out there on offense. Darius Cooper. And I mean, it's Will Shipley. Like, that's where we were at. It was it was Jalen Hurts, Zach Ertz, Darius Cooper, Damian Pierce, Willie Lampkin. And they almost won the game.

55:31Robert Mays: And the defense obviously carried a ton of that. Jalen Carter had a monster day. But the fact that you could even win an NFL game with the state of their offense is enviable. Now you're removing the quarterback from the situation. They're in a really, really difficult spot, even if I think their effort and their ability to hang in that game with the Jags last year was commendable last week. I mean, their injury report list looks like an ancient scroll. It's like 20 guys long. And that was bad.

56:00Derrik Klassen: You're on the list. Yeah, exactly. It's like every day, it just seems like they're adding a new guy on there. And that was before we have a pretty bizarre update for having the quarterback go on with blood clots. And so I just, this is, even if you imagine some sort of bad case scenario for the Eagles going into the season, this is like four levels under that.

56:22Robert Mays: Which brings me to an odd point that I wanted to make about this game. I'm curious about the Panthers defense. And so this might not be the best test or you can spin it the other way. This is the perfect test. If you can't do it this week, then I have real concerns. Caleb Evans, if this isn't the week, then there won't be a week. Part of the reason I wanted to focus on the Panthers defense in this conversation, it's akin to what we were saying about the Texans before. I think the Panthers offense is legitimately good. And I was thinking a lot about this this week. And we talk about this with defenses sometimes where there are different versions of what a good defense can feel like.

56:56Robert Mays: And I think there are some offenses in the NFL that are good because everything looks the same, right? The Rams are the best example of this where everything is tied together. It's actually a pretty limited amount of what you're trying to do. But because it's also cohesive, you are a really hard unit to deal with. The Panthers are the opposite of that. Like they're hard because you don't know what's coming. and if you can make a seemingly disparate approach on offense, if you can tie it together enough, then it can just feel like you have a defense where their head is just spinning the entire game.

57:32Robert Mays: It's like, here's an RPO, here's this, here's that, here's an under center run, here's a play action, here's a boot. And that, I think, that was what the Panthers wanted to be offensively. It uses a term that I think is really telling and I think it speaks to what they've been. I want to unsettle the defense. I want them to feel constantly unsettled and they've made good on that. The Panthers defense has unsettled offenses, unsettled the teams that they've played against in a really efficient way. I I'm buying this. And because of that, I want to know what the defense is. I want to know what the defense is.

58:03Robert Mays: So I know what to think of you. Like are, should you be the favorite in the NFC South? Are you a potential wildcard team? If the Falcons are for real, like holistically, what are you? And so I wanted to spend some time this week, just looking at the defense and like what they've even been. It's kind of a strange unit in terms of some of the numbers, the approach, they have a good run defense. They have the fewest run stuffs in the league. And when you watch them play, it actually does make sense because we're talking about read fronts. This is, they're not trying to get into the backfield. That's, those aren't the types of players that they have.

58:38Robert Mays: They're trying to sit there with Lee Hunter and Derek Brown and be like, move us. Yes. I dare you. This is what the Rams were last year, too, where it's like they didn't get into the backfield, but they were one of the like a really good run defense because it was like we're going to sit here and we're going to make you move us. And it's pretty hard to do, especially with as well as the Panthers guys are playing right now. They were a really good run defense last year. They've carried over being a pretty good one this year. The thing that's surprising about them, and Derek, you and I talked about this in real time in The Hangover, about why the Lions were in so much gun in that game.

59:10Robert Mays: And I think it was twofold in kind of gathering some more information about it. One, it is because of the amount of pressures that the Panthers have sent this year. And when we were watching it and talking about it, I was like, man, are the Panthers that heavy of a pressure team? And then you look at the numbers. So far this season, they're blitzing on 41 % of snaps. The only teams ahead of them are Brian Flores, Brian Flores Jr. in Washington with Durante Jones, and Todd Bols. so we have the guys in the nfl who we think of as three guys and now we and and that's what the panthers have done when you watch it though and that being like a real tentpole of who they're trying to be defensively it feels like they're cosplaying a little bit as one of those teams and i think it's for a few different reasons but the success on those plays they have a bottom five blitz rate on plays where they're blitzing without play action they have a bottom five success rate on those plays.

1:00:08Robert Mays: And I think it's just because they're trying to live outside of what they typically are. Like that, what we just talked about with the defense, like the run defense and how they're not making a lot of plays in the backfield. Inherently, this group with Evero has not been that aggressive. It's been more of that, like that Fangio, we're going to sit back, we're going to play a decent amount of soft zone. They play very little man coverage. And so them being this blitz heavy of a team, it doesn't feel like it really suits them. It still feels like they're trying to find their footing as that sort of team.

1:00:38Robert Mays: And so I think that's what we're watching right now as they sort through that process. And that's only been compounded by the fact that you see the corners not being out there. Like you watch what the Lions were doing and they were just circling a Caleb Evans on all of these plays. And so I think because schematically, they're still trying to figure out who they are. And because now without the corners for a while, that's something to really worry about. In this game, it might not matter, but I have some long-term concerns about how this is all gonna be tied together for Carolina.

1:01:06Derrik Klassen: I just love that we have so satisfactorily answered the Bryce Young thing that has lingered over this team for so long. Now we can worry about like what your ceiling actually is.

1:01:17Robert Mays: But that was the whole point, right? Is that we thought the other, the rest of the team might be good enough where the Bryce Young question was the only question and the defense has lagged behind. The defense has not played as well as the investments would lead you to believe. And I think that was true even before the corners got hurt. Obviously the Bears scored 59 points in week one.

1:01:32Derrik Klassen: Yeah, that's a good point. But I would just say they've had shit injury luck all year. Yeah. And that starts with like day one of training camp when you lose Scorton on the second practice of the year. But everybody's dealing with injuries.

1:01:47Robert Mays: And that's when you lose both your starting corners and those are the two probably best players on your defense. That's a tough one. Yeah, it's those two and Derek Brown. And it's like, well, when you don't have him anymore, it's like, well, that's pretty tough. I do think schematically some of the issues I have with them and I do think like they kind of caught the lines a little bit where like they're blitzing so much or it's early in the season. You don't know how much of this is going to be real for certain teams and they are doing it a lot. But I usually find with the teams that blitz a ton, there is some amount of uncertainty that offenses are supposed to feel going against that.

1:02:19But because with the Panthers, it's all five man rush every single time. Like they really do not bring cover zero and bring six or seven rushers. And in my mind, if you're going to be a high pressure team, you need to have the threat, the kernel in the back of the offense's mind of like, oh, everybody might. They're all coming. They might bring everybody.

1:02:37Robert Mays: You got to make them believe it because you believe it. Exactly. And like all the other defenses that blitz a ton do this. Washington has done this this year. They'll they'll run cover zero. Brian Flores, obviously Spags and the Chiefs will do this. The New England Patriots. They're another great example. High blitz team. They will bring zero. And some teams do it with zone. Some teams do it with man. And obviously the Panthers are more of a zone team, especially with their corners. But I just think if you're going to be that high of a pressure team, you got to scare the bejesus out of teams a little bit with some more cover zero stuff.

1:03:05And again, maybe this week it doesn't matter because you're playing a backup quarterback with like eight other backups on the offense. I do think that that's something as the year goes on, the good quarterbacks are going to catch on. They're going to know that like, okay, if you're bringing stuff, it's three deep, three under every time. I know how to beat that.

1:03:20Robert Mays: I want people to know that you brought up that point independently before I told you this stat before the show started. this season, they have brought fewer six man pressures, six or more than any team in football. They've done it 12.9 % of the time, despite blitzing at the fourth highest rate in the league. So obviously they have by far the highest five man pressure rate in the NFL. Some of that is the amount of five man fronts that they're in. And that was one of the other reasons that the lions played the way that they did. The lions, the Panthers played less base in the lions game than they ever, they have all season by far in part because the lions were in lighter personnel because they didn't want Derek Brown sitting over the center.

1:03:56Robert Mays: And so they have a lot of five man fronts where they'll just bring everybody. But even when you're accounting for down and distance, nickel, non play action, non first down, they still are super, super high blitz rate and they're not bringing six or more.

1:04:09Derrik Klassen: Real quick, before we move on, I had a question for you about the Eagles. You said at the, when the Juergens trade happened, and I agree with you that that is, that's not like a tanking move. That's about way more than that. and the opportunity cost of what Baltimore is willing to pay makes it a no-brainer. However, if they lose a couple more games...

1:04:30Robert Mays: Who would you trade, though? That's my question. Who's calling? But I wouldn't trade any of the young defensive guys. That would be a non-starter to me. You're too good. You turn around too fast in this league. Saquon Barkley? Oh, man. I mean, if the Bears need a bag, right? That's such a Howard thing.

1:04:46Derrik Klassen: So the reason I bring this up is, like, for 30 teams, this is bullshit. water cooler talk that would never materialize hey man we're just saying that who has who has a guy who never goes never gonna happen if there if there is a team if there is a team that a has the job security and be the forward analytical thinking to do some like baseball or basketball style shit where you're strategically selling off at the deadline in order to revamp your restart early it would be the eagles do you at least agree with that 100 agree with that i don't know how many pieces you could deal off. Like Saquon comes to mind.

1:05:24Derrik Klassen: It would have to be Tariq Willen. Sure. If somebody wanted Tariq Willen for half a year, maybe Seattle's like, you know what? We miss him.

1:05:33Robert Mays: We'll take him back, please. I wonder if they'd be willing to do that because they, I think, are fine quietly tanking. That's a loud, that's loudly tanking. That's loud, that's loudly tanking. And if there is anybody who could sit there and just take every single bullet to do something like that, Howie Roseman is the person. I just wonder if you want to engage in that sort of heat when you know if this goes poorly, you might fire your head coach. That's just tough optically, and it's tough to sell it to the locker room.

1:06:02Derrik Klassen: I just think it's interesting because it's the Eagles. I don't think very many other teams would do something like that, but if they lose this game and then they got the Cowboys after that on Monday Night Football, let's say you lose both of these games to fall to 2-5 as the deadline gets close, and it's just obvious that you don't have the juice, I'm thinking about it.

1:06:24Robert Mays: If Tanner McKee puts up like 30 on the Cowboys in Monday Night Football, I have to leave the country. You do. You do. I don't live here anymore. As someone who has the Eagles in the wind spool, I'd be superfluously okay with that. Let's get to our last one here. Bills at Raiders. This is all you, Derek. What do you got? Yeah, mine I think is, you know, I think we are excited about what the Raiders defense has been. Last week was not their best. And that was obviously Drake Mays just throwing for like 400 yards on them. It was a tough day. Not what you want when you can't touch the quarterback and he's going to do that to you.

1:06:56This, I think, is a very different test, obviously going against Josh Allen and the Bills, but specifically the Bills run game because the Patriots run game is like not that great. They didn't do a whole lot against the Raiders. I think in this game, though, the Raiders run defensive this year in against 12 and 13 personnel outside the 10, because I think like once you get into the goal line, that gets a little bit different. but I say 12 and 13 personnel because that's what the Bills do. They are sixth in run defense success rate on 34 runs and they've allowed three explosives. One of those was in the New England game when the game was like 20 point blowout didn't really matter.

1:07:27So really they've only given up a couple against the Chiefs and other than that they have been pretty good. But this is one of those things where I am certain the Bills heavy run game is real. They've done it for years now. They can do it all sorts of different ways. They've already adapted this season I don't know if that's real for the Raiders defense yet there's been some kernels that this is a real thing and that they've been good and they can put Quay Walker on the line and Kobe Dean's playing well the D tackles this is a very much a if your run defense is real especially out of base this is the game to prove it and I just kind of want to see if they've got that to him I totally

1:08:03Robert Mays: get that and we talked about it I can't remember which show it was but just talk about how the way that Tonka Hemingway has played this year and just how good he looks for them and why he's a part of why the defense just feels different. This was a unit. I think part of it, if I'm just interrogating why I felt this way, their mix of like rotational pieces and quasi starters looked terrible at front against the Texans in the preseason. And so coming into the season, I was like, man, is this just going to be an interior group that gets blown off the ball every single play? And that didn't happen over the first few games of the year, in part because Tonka Hemingway was playing really well as a starter and Fatoukasi was giving them something.

1:08:41Robert Mays: but talk Hemingway is dealing with a concussion so he may not play in this game so this may be this may not be the week to get your answer because one of the most important pieces on their defensive line isn't potentially isn't playing in this game I do think that there that does hurt them a little bit I still think that most of the rest of the front being healthy and out there I do think that like you should be able to not this should be a defense that if you are a real run defense you do not let james cook go for 130 and two touchdowns uh i will say though are you in that not happening i would say like 35 i think that the bills probably can do what they want to do and i do want to flip this to the other side of the ball um i think james what obviously the fumbles are are what they are the the rams game was was really gross and i think that there are certain things about the bills run game that is the scheme is good and having josh Allen helps you because you get different boxes and the offensive line is playing well on the tight ends.

1:09:39James Cook's footwork is unbelievable. He makes so many runs right that are wrong or get six when there's three blocked like his the way he sees it specifically on their duo stuff when he's just working it back against the grain is sensational. And I just think against a thing in

1:09:58Robert Mays: the NFL right now watching them do that. It's the way that they just bend runs back and he it just feels like he's sliding across like like truly like he's like on a rail behind the line of scrimmage and just sliding across it it really is beautiful to watch and I think the way that he'll set up linebackers is really impressive and the reason I say that is N 'Kobe Dean has been awesome this year you can get him peaking and guessing and a little bit like the big Kenneth Walker run is because he's trying to peak the back side of a block and Kenneth Walker's just like fine I'll spring it out the front side and he's gone for 76 yards James Cook can do that to you.

1:10:33And so I just think that that is something that I think the Raiders defense needs to be keen on this week.

1:10:38Derrik Klassen: Just keep N 'Kobe Dean off the phone with Nate Landman. Whatever the hell Nate Landman saw on film, don't show it to N 'Kobe Dean.

1:10:47Robert Mays: Bill, the other thing I point out here, I want to see something from the Bills defense. I want to see something. We've been in a panic mode about the Cowboys defense all year, and they have been the worst defense in the league. The Bills want to win the Super Bowl, right? The Bills right now I think are tied for the third best Super Bowl odds. The Rams are still second, I think, which is hilarious. But I'm pretty sure the Bills are third at like plus 800 with the Ravens. If you're that sort of team, can you do that with the 28th best defense in the league? Doesn't feel like it. I don't think you can.

1:11:19Robert Mays: And it's so funny, man. I would just, I'm trying to be better about this when I'm looking up stats for specific things we're talking about. If something pops out at me, just throw it in there and just hit it whenever we get a chance to. when blitzing this Jim Leonard, right? The pressure stuff, man, like the simulateds and the blitzes. And like, what is that going to look like? This season when blitzing, the Bills have allowed a 57.6 % success rate. That's horrendous. That is like MVP. Like if a quarterback had that over the course of their season, they'd be the best in the league by a lot.

1:11:57Derrik Klassen: It wouldn't be close. I'm putting you on the spot here, and I apologize, but what's the fix? I don't know, man. I like the front. I like Buffalo's front for the most part. I mean, I know they didn't have it. I mean, the secondary just looks lost. I mean, it just looks lost.

1:12:13Robert Mays: And I don't know. I mean, this is, and again, this applies to the Cowboys too, and I don't want to keep bringing it back to that, but patience with new staffs. Like, just patience with new staffs. Like, just because some of them look really good right away doesn't mean the ones that don't look good right away I can't fix this. It's really hard to install a defense is specifically when you have a defense that so much communication, so many moving parts, it can be hard to get the, like get results right away. I am open to the idea that with more time, just the ability to kind of fine tune some stuff and make sure you got everything buttoned up on the back end, this can look better.

1:12:48Robert Mays: But the secondary just looks completely outmanned. I mean, in pretty much every single game they play, they look outmanned. banged up they look outmanned and also like it's just kind of a weird mishmash of players like i think you look at that secondary and it's a little bit hard to be like this is what the identity should be because the answer is a little bit different for every single guy and it's just built for a different sort of defense and you had to like you had to talk yourself into the idea that they'd be able to transition into this and they just haven't been able to it's the blend of it was built for a previous defense like it's like spending a first-round pick on maxwell hairston for example and then that of like well we have to replace our nickel because he was getting a little bit older and so we bring in this like mid-level free agent and then we have to save our safety room that's been bad for three years by bringing cj gardner johnson and i don't even think that was necessarily like good scheme fit it was just like what else were they going to do given the resources that they had like it's just it's a really weird room which i think that's why all this is so frustrating is that the front to dave's point is awesome the front four is so so so good and it just doesn't matter too often this is it's so early in the year that like i think it's just it's important to paint it with this sort of uh condition i'm not it can get better like this is it's so early they can get better you're on notice you need to show something to me that that that's where i'm at i am totally fine accepting that it can improve and this is not what it's going to be cast in concrete for the next 10 weeks this has to get better if this team wants to

1:14:21Derrik Klassen: do is going to do what it wants to do i promise it was it wasn't my goal to be trade guy on this show we didn't talk about it you want if that you want that to be your role moving forward i'm happy to him well happy to incorporate that i'm just thinking about how unimpressive mike mcdonald's first defense was in seattle and how trading for ernest jones made it click and it looked so much better in the second half of the year. I don't even know what the deal would be, but, or, and maybe they just pick it up on their own over time, you know? And I was going to say, I had such a high degree of confidence, no matter how shitty the bills defense looked.

1:14:57Derrik Klassen: I always like, well, Sean McDermott's going to whip it together with duct tape and WD 40 by come hell or high water. Sean McDermott's not there. And it's a different scheme. Maybe they just figure this out on their own or maybe something like that could click this thing into place whatever you think the problem is maybe maybe it could be a linebacker maybe it could be somebody on the back end but if you're trying to ensure that because you have a super bowl ceiling that could be an effective way to

1:15:23Robert Mays: do it yeah it's not a bad thought i think they're the sort of team where you could absolutely justify it before we move on we're going to take one more quick break this episode is brought to you by on it you know those days where your schedule is packed to the brim you're jumping straight from managing work deadlines to squeezing in a workout, running family errands, and trying to handle a million things all at once? When you're deeply engaged in a busy day, staying in that zone can make all the difference. That's where Onnit's AlphaBrain comes in as a daily nootropic formula designed for daily cognitive support.

1:15:52It supports cognition, memory, attention, focus, and mental clarity while you're tackling your daily tasks. It supports AlphaBrain wave activity, helping you tune out distractions, get into the zone, and support that optimal flow state when you're deeply immersed in an activity. It supports quicker reaction times and relaxes and supports alpha wave activity during normal, occasional stress. If you're ready to support your concentration and focus throughout your demanding days, check them out. Shop now at onnit.com. O-N-N-I-T dot com. So me and my family, we live in the suburbs of Chicago. And one thing I love about the cluster of suburbs where we live is that while there are a lot of similarities among them, there are also enough differences to make each one feel unique.

1:16:37And those differences are largely driven by the small businesses that inhabit those towns. Whether you are in one, another, the one over there, they each have enough of their own flair to make them all feel unique while they're all right on top of one another as well. Being able to shop at those small businesses, pour into the suburb that we live in, but also pour into our neighbors as well, It really just feels good and makes it feel even more special being at home. With FAIR, it's easy for independent retailers to stock products from over 100 ,000 unique brands worldwide. It's perfect for planning inventory for the holiday season.

1:17:11We were just in one of those small businesses I was talking about a couple of days ago looking for a birthday gift for one of my daughter's friends. She's turning six. And so it was great to go into this toy store and be able to find so many different things from big retailers while still supporting this small business in our town. By connecting retailers with over 100 ,000 unique brands, Fair gives small and local businesses a platform to thrive. They've got curated wholesale products for home, apparel, beauty, food, and more. Fair reduces the risk of testing new products with analytics and free returns on first orders with every brand.

1:17:42So far, Fair has given more than 700 ,000 retailers access to over 100 ,000 brands. Sign up today and get 50 % off your first wholesale order up to$100 at FAIRE.com slash TAFs. That's F-A-I-R-E dot com slash TAFs. Terms may apply.

1:18:25Derrik Klassen: Ready to talk with an expert? Visit bill.com slash proven to get started and grab a$150 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.

1:18:42Robert Mays: all right let's spend a little bit of time on sicko street this week sicko street for week six is cardinals at rams the los angeles rams belong on sicko street right now you have put yourself here and this is why i think it's a fitting entry for this framing i think a lot of people are going to be watching this game and watching the rams even have our probably already, but especially this one with like nefarious intentions. Yes. If the Rams are a 12 and a half point favorite in this game, if the Rams lose to the Cardinals, people are going to be dancing in the streets that had to hear about this being a super team all off season.

1:19:22Robert Mays: And I don't blame them.

1:19:23Derrik Klassen: This reminds me of college football where, okay, so late window. I know you don't know the windows. I have no idea when PD teams are playing. I assume this is late because it's West Coast. Late window. I know geography. There you go. Good job. Thank you. your mastered Pacific time. East and West. I actually haven't at all. Time zones are. Cardinals, Rams, Chargers, Chiefs, Bills, Raiders are the three late games. I assume Bills, Raiders is the natural place to go because it's two teams with a winning record. But it reminds me of college football in the sense of if the Cardinals take the lead or like if it's close at halftime, similar to when that happens to like Alabama on a Saturday, everybody's just like, ah they're giving alabama a game huh and you just get more and more intrigued as the game goes along

1:20:08Robert Mays: at this point in the season you're two and three things are again they have the second best super this is that things are far from over they're probably going to be okay but you were in a vulnerable place and now you are on display if you can't hide in the noon window if it's 13 10

1:20:23Derrik Klassen: at halftime even if they're winning 13 to 10 at halftime people are going to be like let me just let me throw that on the double box just in case something cool happens in the second half are you

1:20:32Robert Mays: not saying that bill's raiders is going to be compelling enough to steal the attention of most of america while that game is happening or chargers at this rate the funny thing is the chargers the

1:20:43Derrik Klassen: rams are not supposed to be two and three and it is relative to the expectations it's an absolute failure that they are the chargers are not supposed to be oh and five either but that is just so far gone that it's not even worth visiting on something like sicko street i my take is that the rams have

1:20:58Robert Mays: to be happy the chargers exist because they can't be the most disappointing team in the league but now we're getting to a point with the chargers where things are so bad that people are going to stop paying attention and so now even if they technically are the most disappointing team we're going to shift the gaze back to the rams because chargers are just out of sight out of mind because it's so so over they badly need the chargers to steal a game somewhere well it's probably not going to be this one but they like next week the weekend they need them to start stealing some games and get back to three and seven so we can talk about how frustrating this charger season is because if the chargers get to oh and nine we're not going to do that anymore it's over like they have no shot of anything even in this window how great would it be for the rams if it is 13 10 at halftime but the chargers are also keeping it close yeah they're like look look

1:21:46Derrik Klassen: over there at the Chiefs game. This isn't even, I'm not even going to call this cope because you, y 'all were the ones that picked the Rams to the Super Bowl. Am I remembering that right? Yes, I did do that. Don't ask me about my Super Bowl pick because it looks stupid right now. I do want to be clear

1:22:00Robert Mays: that all offseason, I was talking about how scared to shit, how scared shitless I was that we were talking about the Rams as some super team because that never happens and I thought it was nonsense. I want to be very clear about that.

1:22:09Derrik Klassen: So, but I don't think you should back off yet. Let run this thing down through the first five games. Divisional game on the other side of the world against one of the most consistent programs in the league over the last five years in the Niners. Giants, AFC finalist Broncos, consistently great recent Super Bowl champ Eagles, the Josh Allen Bills. That's your five teams. And then the one game where you really looked like world beaters was the Giants, which is the one not consistently excellent team you've played. The Rams opponents to this point in the season are 17-7-1. They're winning 70 % of their games.

1:22:45Derrik Klassen: They've played a lot of good teams. Now I want to see what this looks like because their bye week is in week 11. So they got five more games. Their next five opponents are 6-18-1. They go Cardinals twice, Raiders, Chargers, Commanders. You better be looking like Alabama over the next five weeks. Seriously. Not this Alabama though, right? Previous Alabamas. The same in Alabamas. Yeah. Well, good point.

1:23:10Robert Mays: You could tell me Alabama is any version of quality right now and I would not know.

1:23:14Derrik Klassen: They're not bad, but they're not the Saban Crimson Tide. Look like Georgia. Look like the dominant college team of choice. That's what you should be doing over the next five weeks, starting with Sunday.

1:23:26Robert Mays: I want to be very clear. I think the Rams are still a good team. I think the Rams are still potentially like a Super Bowl quality team, but they're two and three. There's no super team thing happening here, and I didn't think there was going to be. Even if I thought they could win the Super Bowl, the thought that they would just be this mindless eating machine and just roll over everybody. It's just not how the NFL works. I do think an important thing with this, even if they can still be a really good team after winning this game, or after losing this game, and I obviously believe that. The problem is that two and four, the one seed is off the table.

1:23:58It is off the table. It probably is, but I still think that they're good enough if they could just rattle off 10 wins. Yeah. I don't know that I believe that, but it's when Garrett comes back, like Puka's going to keep playing. I can see that world. If you lose this game, it's completely done. You have zero shot of getting there.

1:24:17Robert Mays: I think it's a really uphill battle. I don't want to be too dismissive about it, but I think you'd have a really hard time making that happen.

1:24:21Derrik Klassen: Let's say they win five in a row, though. I don't know. I think 12 or 13 wins is still on the table. I think you're backing off a little too quickly. I think it's mostly just that I'm disappointed in them.

1:24:30Robert Mays: Yeah, for sure. I think that's the reason. It's not that I don't believe it anymore. It's just that a price needs to be paid for what this five weeks has looked like.

1:24:39Derrik Klassen: Well, Harrison Mevis paid the price for those ups because they replaced him with Blake Groupie, which, okay, I know he had to know this. When's the last time Blake Groupie was like a full-time kicker in the league? He played five games with the Colts last year.

1:24:53Robert Mays: So five games. He was not their full-time kicker. It's not ridiculous that I don't know that.

1:24:59Derrik Klassen: Yeah, he was with the Saints at the beginning of last year before they cut him. They did so much other shit wrong in that game. That's not Harrison Mevis' fault, but he'd missed like three or four kicks up to that point. So it makes sense. Yeah, I think it's okay to cut the kicker at that point.

1:25:14Robert Mays: He's not the scapegoat. He is not everything that's wrong with this, but I think it's okay. All right, let's talk about what we want to know. Coming out of week six in the NFL, Dave, what do you got for me?

1:25:23Derrik Klassen: I'm calling this the don't look now game because the winner of Steelers Bucks, when I turn on the morning shows on Monday, I don't watch the morning shows. When I open Twitter on Monday, somebody's going to say, don't look now. but this team is all of a sudden really well positioned and it's either the Steelers or the Tampa Bay Buccaneers the Steelers go down to Tampa and beat the Bucs with Jalen Daniels starting I know what he did to Dallas but you still got to assume a rookie undrafted quarterback you have a leg up in that game they're road favorites if the Steelers beat Tampa they're four and two they've won two games in a row for the first time this year and this is how a 10 and 7 seven seed Steelers is made.

1:26:08Derrik Klassen: That's how it happens is you win games like this and somebody's going to say, don't look now, but the Steelers are four and two and their schedule looks pretty manageable and they're going to do it again. Or if Jalen Daniels maintains that momentum from the Thursday night game, the Bucks could be two and four in a NFC South that right now looks wide open. The Jalen Hurts injury kind of affects that a little bit, but the Panthers could be below 500 on the other side of the weekend the falcons already are and they play the bears with caleb williams and the saints are doing whatever the hell the saints have been doing the last few weeks like if tampa finds a way to win this game they are right back in the thick of the nfc south race with baker mayfield presumably getting healthier and so i want to know who's feeling themselves a little bit after winning an otherwise kind of forget forgettable looking game i want to say this about the steelers

1:27:03Robert Mays: part of my frustration with the Steelers over the last couple years is that I didn't know who they were supposed to be on offense like I was like what what do you want this to be and that was part part of that was personnel and just how weird the personnel was coming into this year the offensive line had a chance to be a real strength from when they played the Bengals in week three I think that they've just stumbled into or reluctantly accepted their fate the way that you were built mash people just mash people like you have the ability to do that and what they've looked like over the last three weeks the last in these last three games they are currently third in rushing dvoa that's what they are and that combined with the talent that they have on defense like i was excited about patrick graham coming in like having an offense where like this is what we can do we can mash people we said it coming out of week two derrick when we did them in the hangover, it was like, what do you want this offense to be?

1:28:03Robert Mays: They have landed in my mind on a satisfactory answer to that question. And so I am much more interested in them because of that, because it feels like there's somewhere for them to hang their hat on offense in a way that there was not over the first two weeks of the season. I mean, if the offense is going to be that in the offensive line, like every, every playoff team, I think needs something they can hang their hat on. And for them, it is that offensive line, this, them playing that level. And I think the passing game being slightly better moves them into slightly above average offense, which is a little bit better than they were last year.

1:28:35And if the defense can maintain its level at slightly above average, to Dave's point, this is a perfectly fine 10 and seven wildcard team. And the other thing that I would say, because I was looking this up before we went on as well, one of the other teams that the Steelers are going to be competing with for the seventh seed potentially is the Houston Texans. The Houston Texans and the Pittsburgh Steelers play in, I think week 15. So that is going to be the game if we're looking ahead for what the headlines are going to look like. That's going to be the game where it's like, this might decide what the seventh seed looks like by the end.

1:29:07Derrik Klassen: Buccaneers are top five rushing defense through five weeks of the season. There we go. See what the big boys do. We said this after the Dallas game, but the Bucs defense is like right there, man. It hasn't all been pretty through five weeks, but there's a lot to like there, especially on the back end.

1:29:23Robert Mays: I agree. What I want to know coming out of week six, how should I feel about the New York teams? I'm just going to fully admit it. Five weeks into the season, I don't know how I should feel about these teams. Both two of them have played both teams. The jets and the giants have played multiple weather games, multiple, right? The giants play one against Washington last week. They played against the Titans earlier. The jets played ones against the Packers and they played one, one against the Browns. The giants offense has done some good stuff. Like there, You look at what Isaiah Likely's production has looked like.

1:29:54Robert Mays: You look at what Malik Neighbors' production has looked like. With the backup quarterback, like, how should I feel about the Matt Nagy-Greg Roman thing? Because I think their returns on it have actually been better than we might have expected. The defense, there's some really intriguing pieces on that side. Like, they're blitzing at a crazy rate. Arvel Reese is doing some cool things. But just overall, they're 3-1-1. I think they're 27th in total team DVOA. It's so early. Those numbers are all over the place. Who the f*** knows? but I want just a little bit more clarity about what this team is.

1:30:23Robert Mays: And I feel the same way about the jets, right? Like the jets have been frisky in some games. Then they got pushed around by the bears. The offense looked really good against the bad Detroit defense. And so five weeks into the season, this is all us trying to grasp onto what we know and what we don't know and the context around these teams and what's real and what's not still, still to this point in the year, that's where we are. And so as somebody that is tasked with covering and talking about all 32 teams and figuring out how we're going to do that, I just want a little bit more data on the New York teams.

1:30:54Robert Mays: I just want a little bit more clarity over the next couple of weeks about what they are, how we should look at them and what place they're going to have and just the broader conversation about the 2026 season. It's not any more specific than that. If one of them could play a game that's not in a freaking rainstorm, that would be supposed to rain again.

1:31:11Derrik Klassen: No, I don't even know. No, but they've played a climate change show soon because I'm so pissed off about the conditions that we're having these games in between the two of them. They've played like four or five games in just shitty conditions that I just want more information.

1:31:25Robert Mays: That's literally all I want. I feel like 75 percent of Jameis Winston passes I've seen this year have been in the rain. It's like every time I look at my TV, I'm like, God damn, it's raining again. And so they're funny. I do think the Giants, you know, the Jets have a real test in terms of like a good team that they're playing. And so I think we'll get some answers there for the Giants. I think it's interesting. Like they play a team that they are perfectly equipped to beat the Giants. If there's anything I think they should do, run the ball a little bit, rush the quarterback. The Saints cannot defend the run and they can't block the quarterback right now because their tackles are hurt or their best tackle is hurt.

1:32:01You should win that game and get to four and one and one.

1:32:04Robert Mays: Yeah. And if they do, it's like, all right, let's let's start having a conversation about what the Giants are. And that, but that's the exact, that's exactly what I want. Like, let's show me what you are against the saints this week. And if you're the jets, can you stay in this game against new England? Or do you just get absolutely boat raced? And then we start talking about that type of jet season again. And so I just think it's not perfect. The mirror that we're holding up both teams to this week, but it's enough, right? There's a little bit of a crack in it, but I can get an understanding of what I'm looking at.

1:32:32Robert Mays: Hopefully if we can play some non-weather games for both of these teams. Good news. Looks like we're getting perfect football weather days for both of these teams. 60s, sunny in both New York and the greater Boston, Foxborough area. Congratulations to those cities and locales for getting a decent spat of weather here. Derek, what do you got for me? What do you want to know coming out of week six? So I, the Chiefs losing Tyquan Thornton is quietly huge for them. And we talked about this when he went down, but. Kyle Minunga and Tyquan Thornton, the most important players in professional football.

1:33:05Robert Mays: holding a lot of things together. But the Chiefs passing offense had looked the best it has had, has looked in like three years probably. And four of their completions over 20 yards this season. They've only had six of them. Four of them were to Tyquan Thornton. And all of those plays went for at least 40 yards. Like those are not just like 20 yard chunks. They are bombs. And so the fact that they're not going to have him, obviously he's been hurt. He went down in that Raiders game with an ankle issue. Now I just want to see, like, what is the vertical passing game going to even look like in the first week back?

1:33:38Because obviously they had the bye last week, so they don't really have the great players for it. I think the Chargers overall are bad. The Chargers defense is not that bad. Like, this is a good enough test that you can, like, show some stuff against them. So just curious to see what they try to do down the field.

1:33:54Robert Mays: All right. That is all we've got for week six. We got Broncos Seahawks tonight, which is a very good Thursday night game. The recap for that will be available right here on YouTube if you're watching this right now. Also available on your podcast feeds. If you are watching this on YouTube and you are new to the channel, please like, subscribe. We've got tons of great stuff coming all throughout the week. For now, that is all we've got. Appreciate it. We'll see you guys on Sunday night. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating.

1:34:27Robert Mays: We'll see you next time.

1:34:57Derrik Klassen: Thank you. $150 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.

1:35:05Robert Mays: Hi, Brooke DeVard, host of Naked Beauty. Picture this, you walk in from the cold and every room already feels like fall. That's what whole home scenting means at Pura. One system working quietly in the background so your home always feels like the season and like you. Learn more at Pura.com. Hi, this is Brooke DeVard from Naked Beauty. I am always looking for ways to elevate our daily rituals and the Kohler smart toilet is proof that design changes everything. It's this stunning sculptural piece that feels like quiet luxury for your bathroom. It totally transforms your daily ritual into something elevated with customizable cleansing and touchscreen controls.

1:35:46Robert Mays: It's functional art that makes your space feel cleaner and more intentional. A modern home deserves a modern toilet. Experience the difference of Kohler smart toilets. Find more at Kohler.com. Thank you.