Week 6 recap: Rams down bad, Texans & Jaguars put on a show, Caleb Williams returns with a bang

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2:19Robert Mays: Hit the Ravens there as well. And also dug into what all of this means for the Indianapolis Colts. Some attention grabbing from the Chicago Bears quarterback. A fantastic game in London. And a whole lot more with me, Dave, and Derek. Let's get to it right now.

2:45Robert Mays: I don't always want to lean on our tweets as content. but I think you did a good job of succinctly summing up the feelings we all had about the Packers-Cowboys game, which we are going to start the show with tonight, deep into the third quarter. Would you call it a regrettable way to spend three hours?

3:00Derrik Klassen: A regrettable way to spend three hours. And one of the worst games I can remember watching between teams that are like mostly at full strength that I can remember, like the franchise quarterbacks were healthy. I know Micah Parsons isn't ready to play, but... Offensive. On offense.

3:17Robert Mays: On offense, both these teams were fairly healthy.

3:20Derrik Klassen: Just a nightmare of a game between three dropped touchdowns, 22 total penalties. I don't want to take credit away from Green Bay. They were like never in doubt of losing this game. And they're four and two after the way they started the season. That's a phenomenal place to be. But you cannot tell me other than getting the win, even if you're a Packers fan, you did not enjoy watching this after like the first 10 minutes.

3:47Robert Mays: there's no way here's the only pushback i have if i were a packers fan watching this game here's why i actually would be encouraged by how things beating the shit out of the dallas offense is is that's that's it it's worth something that that's it because if i if i told if i were to say to a cowboys fan you're gonna walk away from this game feeling like ass you would probably think man jordan love threw for 500 yards it looked like that was gonna happen they burned And listen, the defense definitely was not great for the Cowboys tonight. The Packers were 9 of 10 on third down in the first half.

4:21Robert Mays: You had multiple dropped touchdowns. But in this game, the Packers finished offensively with a 32 % offensive success rate. The defense did enough, considering the state of the Cowboys defense this season, for Dallas to be in this game and have a shot. For the offense to look the way that it did, I think that would have me feeling crestfallen as a Cowboys fan, but also excited as a Packer fan. We'll get into the Packers' defense and what this all means. This defense, in Jonathan Gannon's group, has put together several really good performances this season. And I think the quality that we've seen from them, sans Micah Parsons, has me feeling a certain way about the Packers overall and has me intrigued by what this team could look like over the course of the year.

5:05Derrik Klassen: Let me amend my statement because I think you make a good point. And if I were a Packer fan, I would be thrilled about what this defense looked like. You highlighted it when it happened. Evan Williams' interception in the red zone was fucking— What a sick play. It was incredible. What a sick play.

5:22Robert Mays: Sick play from a sick player. He has been good, but that was insane.

5:26Derrik Klassen: Brandon Cisse, I believe, gets his first career pick. Lucas Van Ness continues to make an impact on a front that hasn't had Micah Parsons. Javon Bullard made a huge play on fourth down. The Packers defense is cause for excitement and optimism. If you care about the Green Bay Packers, if you are a neutral, this was a regrettable way to spend three hours. This like watching, watching this game play out the string where the Cowboys just keep having these chances to drive the field. And we're throwing like six flags every, every like eight, every eight plays you've got six flags and you just know we're just just playing out the string.

6:05Derrik Klassen: It was brutal, but that doesn't mean that the Packers defense doesn't deserve a lot of credit. It was a million flags. And then you also just had like, I felt like consistently the Cowboys problems were the same problems that they had last week. That was the most frustrating part. Every time green Bay is like, we're going to send pressure and Dallas goes, you know what? We can block it with six and just use the running back and you're not going to overload him. And you're not going to make Dak throw against the free runner. And then guess what happened like seven different times in this game and then I think why it was so striking and annoying in this game one that was their biggest issue last week and then they had nine days to prep for the same stuff against the team that you know does this and they didn't have good answers for it if you watch how Green Bay was handling pressures on the other side they would use the tight end a lot either to chip or just to stay in and they would use seven man protections and say you know what Matthew Golden can win his one-on-one he's going to get there and Jordan Love is and he still gets pressured right like Jordan Love still had to throw with people in his lap but it wasn't a free runner it's this guy's a little bit off the edge but we still get hands on him he's not just going to run straight at the quarterback Jordan Love can backpedal boom he'll make the throw too often Dallas is allowing free runners because they're just they seem very stubborn about the way that they want to protect this stuff and it's it's one of those things where can Dax sit there and see it and beat the blitz and all that stuff like yes in theory he can do that but if the back's going to be two on one or three on one every play it doesn't matter how well the quarterback sees it because he's just going to get hit and so I just I was really frustrated with their answers I do really quickly want to say the Evan Williams call was insane did didn't that feel very like Harrison Smith was exactly the person I thought of when they made the play is exactly the name I thought of he he's the most like when I see a safety on the line fly out of there and get into either on the hat like they were playing quarters and so he's playing that like poach quarters guy but he like immediately gets as soon as he gets high he's like oh number three's coming flies over there I was like that looks like an NFC North player I've seen before and so the fact that he's just adding stuff to his game like the defense I think I was I said I was a little bit cautious about how good I thought this unit actually was I think that this was their best pitched game overall for the Gannon defense I mean like we did it against a backup quarterback

8:21Robert Mays: last weekend, but they tore the Bears apart. I mean, this is two weeks in a row, even if you account for the backup quarterback, where I think their defenses looked really good. And they just, Gannon, when he was in Philly, I mean, I remember vividly. I was, it was Super Bowl media day, and I was talking to Andy Heck, who is the offensive line coach for the Chiefs when the Eagles are playing the Chiefs in that Super Bowl in 2022. And I was asking him, I was like, what do they do defensively that really allows them to be that sort of unit? And he kind of chuckled, and he was just like, they don't really do anything.

8:52Robert Mays: Like they bring five and they kind of do their stuff. And that was in part because that group had horses, that 2022 Eagles defense. And it wasn't that interesting schematically of a defense. They were really good because they had really good talent. And I think there was a question when we saw Gannon as a coordinator again, what would this defense look like when he had to account for a lack of high-end talent along the defensive line? They've had a lot of guys contributing to what this has felt like. You look back at last week and like Brent Cox is having his moments. Denny Dye Sutton has his moments.

9:23Robert Mays: Van Ness has been a good player this year, but there's no star power without Parsons. So when they had to manufacture defense, what would it look like when Gannon was the coordinator? Because we'd only seen him as a coordinator one time and that was the style and identity of that Eagles defense. And so far, both schematically and the other part of it is they play hard. Like they have an attitude, they play a certain way. And so all of those questions about what would a Jonathan Gannon defense look like under all of these circumstances, other than that one game against Atlanta that everybody watched.

9:55Robert Mays: And I think it's going to have a lasting impact of how we think about this group. I almost think it's good they did this in prime time because it shifts the conversation for people who have maybe only watched two Packers games this year. Yeah, the funny thing, too, about the Falcons game, all the early season stuff you always have to kind of reframe. Because on one hand, you can kind of look at it now and be like, well it was a short week against a quarterback they've never seen before and so it's kind of just like sometimes you're just not going to have your best stuff and obviously like Drake London's some of those two like was not even schemed up stuff in the Falcons game it was like Drake London is just the best player on the field and Bijan Robinson is the best player on the field that like they're just alternating doing that and so for them to go out there against an offense that like they've had their problems the last two weeks have been frustrating I still think the Dallas offense can be good but and so to hand it to an offense like that I was pretty impressed

10:44Derrik Klassen: That was Dak's worst yards per attempt since the 2023 Buffalo game, where it was like pissing December rain and the Bills beat up on the Cowboys. 4.8 yards per attempt on like a clear night in Lambeau when the weather wasn't bad. Like, I mean, that's about as flummoxed as you'll see, Dak.

11:06Robert Mays: This is two weeks in a row when I think a defense has forced the Cowboys into being the worst version of themselves. and to watch them really have no answers against pressure was frustrating again. When the Cowboys, and Derek, I agree with you in the sense that the Cowboys offense can have stretches where they look really dominant and really good, but when they're forced to react to what you're doing to them, they don't feel nimble as a unit. And when you watch them play against the Texans, the plan they had against Houston was phenomenal. Like using all of those bunches and stacks and just the way that they were trying to, create separation against a lot of those match coverages.

11:45Robert Mays: Like they were on the front foot in that game. And when they are on the front foot, they have so much talent and the quarterback is so good that they can feel really dangerous and dynamic. When the last two weeks, when defenses have made them play a certain way, they've played into their hands. In the last two weeks, the only teams that have a lower air yards per attempt than the Dallas Cowboys are the Steelers and the Broncos.

12:08Derrik Klassen: Oh my God.

12:09Robert Mays: That can't happen. when you have those receivers. It can't happen. It actually feels like it should be impossible for that to happen. It's gross. And when this, again, when this group kind of turtles into the worst version of itself, it's all underneath. It's all of these stop routes. The offense is so condensed and it feels so tight. And it's when they're pushing the ball down the field and they have a little bit of space to breathe, that's where you feel the receiving options. And so I agree that they absolutely have a gear they can tap into where they look like one of the best offenses in the league.

12:45Robert Mays: But the volatility between that and this should not happen with a group in year two of this offense that is as talented as the Dallas Cowboys are. It's worrying. It genuinely is. Because the offense, the defense, even if they were better tonight than they've been, the Cowboys offense has to be elite for this team to do anything. And they just have not been that over the last couple of weeks.

13:05Derrik Klassen: And I mean, the offense, it's funny because in the early going of this game, it was, here we go, more of the same. Matthew Golden's going to have the game of his life. The third downs was just like, it was unbelievable. Hard to watch in the first half. But by the end of the game, it switched to what the hell is wrong with the Dallas offense. Having said that, I don't leave this game feeling any better about the Dallas defense.

13:28Robert Mays: Oh, no. They're still just trying to keep their heads above water. but I think that's again the talent we don't have to do the defense the Dallas defense conversation again like I still think that the talent on the back end and the injuries at safety and like they're truly just trying to tread water at this point and they did tread water tonight like they were able to do that and it still didn't matter because the offense struggled so much this is the kind of game their defense should have been able to win like the or the Dallas this is the kind of game that Dallas should have been able to win if their defense was going to play that way i mean 23 points yes yes 23 points like that's not that bad like that's even if you

14:05Derrik Klassen: want to average nfl game it's it's worth pointing out like the drops drop touchdowns the drop

14:10Robert Mays: drop touchdowns like absolutely part of but again down to down they had a 32 offensive success rate in green bay like it's they did not down to down they did not walk all over them you can't other

14:20Derrik Klassen: teams have at some point this year you can't quibble about how you held somebody to 23 points with what we've seen from the Cowboys' defense. And the Packers, one thing I would say is running the ball is still a no-go for this Green Bay team.

14:33Robert Mays: I said this when we just did a spot on The Athletic Live before we came on, and I said this to them, and I'll say it again. There are beats of how I currently feel about the Houston Texans that apply to how I currently feel about the Green Bay Packers. When you look at the offense and you look at the state of the offensive line and their inability to run the ball on their terms, it's absolutely worrying. And the Texans defense obviously has a level that even if the Packers defense is playing well, they're not going to explore the heights that the Texans defense has reached over the last couple years.

15:03Robert Mays: I know Houston's relatively been struggling, but like there's enough earned equity there where I think you feel a little bit differently about the defenses. but even if you look at the struggles up front, the struggles running the ball, if the quarterback is going to play this way and your receivers are this good and your offensive line is good enough to allow you to access that type of passing game because the quarterback is playing this way, I'm going to feel pretty confident in what you can accomplish. And you combine that with the way the defense is playing and I kind of want to bring it to that type of conversation.

15:36Robert Mays: situation what should we think about Green Bay right now like what should we think about what they can be in the NFC what type of team they are because I think when you throw all that stuff in the pot it brings me to a place where I don't know man like I I think that they are worth paying attention to I think they are dangerous playing the way that they are with the relative strengths and weaknesses that they have I mean I was gonna say like they feel a step down from like the other elites in the NFC, but the only real like elite NFC team feels like maybe the Niners, like feel like the most complete, like both sides of the ball are absolutely humming, have very few flaws.

16:11Other than that, it's like, now that I really think about it, it's like, are the bears, are the bears really that different from the Packers? Like the Seahawks are kind of the inverse where the defense is insane and the offense has some questions that you have. Like the Packers really probably aren't that different from a lot of these teams, even if three weeks ago, it felt like they were dead and so I still want to see them like continue to string together games I think I still have questions about how the interior of the offensive line is going to hold up over the course of the season but like you said if the quarterback can play this way and the defense can continue to like overachieve is maybe strong but I just didn't think that they had even this level to them and if they play better than the level of the talent I think is exactly especially without

16:49Robert Mays: Micah yes and then but that that's what we but if they settle here and then Micah comes back and they're the they finished the year ninth in defensive dboa that's pretty damn good if the quarterback is going to be playing the way that he's playing and we're trending that way i mean it's so early but they and they went from 24th before last week when they played the bears to eighth that was the jump that they made that's those are the types of jumps that are available five weeks into the year and they'll be higher now and so again if i think that's exactly right if they're somewhere in the back half of the top 10 defensively because of everything we've seen so far and the passing game can look like this they're dangerous I think the only Chicago I think can beat you in more ways offensively because of the way that they can run the ball but I think we're quit we're nitpicking there like I think that overall a lot of these teams are grouped together and I think right now it's reasonable to think the Packers are a member of that group

17:44Derrik Klassen: I feel like I probably do this too much and it's a week-to-week league but the schedule coming up is really interesting for Green Bay. Who is it? It's at Detroit next week. It's Carolina. That'd be a fun one. It's Carolina. That'd be a fun one. Carolina after that, at New England after that, Vikings rematch after that, Rams after that. Like, they're headed into a gauntlet. So I don't think we're going to be guessing about it for much longer. Give it two, maybe three weeks. I mean, they have a chance to really make a statement if what you're hypothesizing is true. And especially, I don't know when Micah gets back, But just having that as an ace up your sleeve is incredible.

18:23Robert Mays: To be sitting at four and two based on how we were talking about them and feeling about them after that Falcons game, it's a really nice place to be. And we talked so much about the offensive line in the offseason and to have that group be banged up initially and for there to be so much concern about the way that they played over the first three weeks, this was one of the reasons that I wasn't losing my mind about it in the summer even as you looked at the talent and was underwhelmed by it because this staff has consistently gotten their five up front, even without stars, to a place that it's a binary.

18:56Robert Mays: Are you good enough to allow the quarterback to play the way that he's capable of playing? If the answer to that is yes, we're fine. Like that is the only bar that you have to clear. And over the last month or so, they have cleared that bar. And I think it completely reframes the way we should think about this team and this offense. All right, typically what we do here as we get to you have my attention. But because of how week six unfolded, the next topic of conversation has to be on the other side of the coin. It is time for What the F***. What the F***? The Rams are two and four. And just lost as 12 and a half point favorites to the Arizona Cardinals.

19:39Robert Mays: Los Angeles Rams. What the F***?

19:43Derrik Klassen: We did the Rams on Sicko Street kind of as a bit. Yes. Like, hey, the Rams aren't supposed to be playing a game like this. Isn't this interesting? And then it went and actually happened. And exactly the way we kind of thought it might, where, you know, your eyebrow kind of raised early on, like, hmm, these are some long, sustained drives that the Arizona Cardinals are having. And then what? I mean, the Rams had like three possessions after halftime. I think they had nine true possessions in this game, if you don't count like end of half, 12 seconds left. and with the opportunities they had like it it didn't take long before this felt like a five alarm fire just with the way that the clock worked and the amount of possessions that the Rams had in this game and it went from mild curiosity to outright panic about what's going on with the Rams really quickly Derek you were the only one of us not in the room as that game was happening as you watched what the Rams were today what were you thinking as watching that game unfolds so like honestly in terms of how the defense played versus the Cardinals offense I think like the Cardinals offense has that gear to them where they can like sustain these drives and they can do some interesting stuff like I don't think anything that happened on that side of the ball was that interesting or out of the ordinary to me the Rams offense again just does not feel like it has the identity that you want from a Rams offense they do not feel like they can run the ball quite on their same terms that they could last year, which is funny because they like they were by success rate.

21:13They were one of the best teams in the NFL today, but they just don't not feel like they are controlling and keeping things on their pace with the run game. They're not as explosive. And I think that that has been an issue. They also continually in this game were in shotgun, like all of the like just in situations where it did not feel like they were in shotgun. And I think their shotgun passing game in general this year has been extremely up and down. and to me there was a really frustrating sequence where I think you felt all of what has like plagued this offense really fall apart it was in the middle of the second quarter there was about seven minutes left and they go first and on possession intent so first play of the drive they go gun two by two and Arizona blitzes off of the right hand side to play this like palms too high pressure Stafford is just like not ready to throw anything but the spot route right in front of him.

22:02Every single person clamps on it, by the way. Buda Baker, who's the free runner, gets his hands up. The linebacker squeezes it and the corner who's playing in the flat squeeze it. They all know his only answer for this that he wants to throw is going to be this route. They squeeze it, ends up a sack, second and 18, and they can't get out of second and 18 anymore. And it's just like they end up in that situation too much. And it used to be that in previous years, if that happened, Puka is going to make a play. Devontae Adams, he's going to make a play. And And they just, today it did not feel like they have that gear to them as consistently as they used to.

22:36Robert Mays: I give the Cardinals defense a lot of credit. And whether it's Matt LaFleur or Mike LaFleur being in those meetings and being like, hey, listen, if you want to attack them this way, this is where they're going to go with the ball. That's the benefit of having a head coach that has spent each of the last, I think, three years in every single one of those meetings. The plan for the Cardinals defense. And that play, I had it in my notes. It's a perfect example. Like Mack Wilson is immediately in that window taking away Puka as Buda Baker finishes that playoff. The Cardinals as a team, I mean, think about their game plan against San Francisco, right?

23:10Robert Mays: Where even in that game where relatively they're making things harder on the Niners than other teams have, it's a lot of soft zone. That's what the Cardinals have been for the most part. And in this game, they were much, much stickier. They were much matchier in coverage. They were kind of dictating how that side of the ball was going. And the Rams didn't really have any answers. The gun stuff is a great thing to bring up. On the first drive, on the first drive, they have a third and one, and they line up in the shotgun. And the Cardinals mug it up, they pop out, there's nowhere to go with the ball.

23:40Robert Mays: Right now, if you are trying to find yourself as the Rams offense, every single time I could be in a scenario where there is a run pass conflict to the defense, third and one is absolutely one of those moments, I'm under center. I'm making it as hard as I possibly can on them. because you are not humming as an offense. It's funny, you have these, I feel differently about different offenses in those scenarios. When I was watching the Houston game today, it was the exact opposite feeling where I was like, get in the gun and let that guy go to work. Like stop hamstringing him the way he's playing right now.

24:18Robert Mays: But when the quarterback feels uncomfortable and the offense feels unsettled, I think it's the opposite. Like let's try to lean on some easy buttons and some easy answers. and they were consistently going away from that. And I just think overall, they felt like an offense that just was completely out of sorts. Like some of the choices that they made, the third and seven handoff early in the game where they handed the ball off on third and seven. I'm just sitting there like, what possibly compels you to do that in a scenario where you know you're not going to go for it on fourth down on your side of the half, on your side of the field.

24:53Robert Mays: They had a fourth and eight where they threw a screen pass in this game. They handed the ball to Davis Allen on fourth and one. Like there was just so many moments where I was like, what is the thought process behind this? This is an offense and a play caller that when they're rolling in a groove, it's unlike anything else in the NFL outside of like maybe San Francisco and then some of the things we've seen from Jacksonville and the stretches there. Whatever they feel like right now is as far removed from that feeling as you possibly could be based on what they did today. The fourth and eight, that's not even, that's the final mark on like a bad trio of things that happened.

25:33They ran on third and five right before that. They ran a wide receiver screen to Puka Nakua. It gets them to fourth and three and then they get a false start and then it's fourth and eight and they check into another screen. I'm like, how at this stage in the game against a team that you know is going to do weird stuff against a defensive coordinator that, this is Rawls' what, third year in Arizona? No, more than that.

25:53Robert Mays: It's 23, 24, 25, 26. This is his fourth year. Yeah. So you've seen him enough that you should know he's got some stuff ready on. You should have more answers for his split stuff on a fourth down. Then we're going to check it into his, especially again on fourth down. If they were checking into it on third down, I don't always love it, but sometimes that can be a good answer and you've got another down anyway. On fourth down, I just, you have a quarterback who, again, it hasn't looked pretty this year, but at their best, a quarterback who can make any throw and two wide receivers who can make any play.

26:26A fourth and eight screen should not be your answer in that moment.

26:30Derrik Klassen: Devontae Adams got hurt late in this game. It was late in the game. Exactly. For the vast majority of this thing, it was all available to them. I cannot, very similar to what we were just saying about Dak, honestly, is like in a world where Puka and Devontae are both available, how does it feel so underneath? How does it, I mean, Matthew Stafford, I think through, I wrote this down, he threw six passes further than 10 air yards in this game.

26:57Robert Mays: I had it at 2.30 left in the fourth quarter. He had thrown five. So we're in the exact same wavelength.

27:01Derrik Klassen: Six in the game. And for the rest of the year, he's throwing more than double that per game.

27:07Robert Mays: I think it's probably a combination of two things. They were heating him up. They were bringing a lot of funky stuff. and this felt like an offense and a game plan that knew they did not have their starting left tackle and were worried about it. That's what this felt like. But it wasn't just the left tackle. I mean, Steve Avila got cooked by Walter Nolan on a play. Dante still has had a very quick win at some point in this game. It was not just the fact that the backup left tackle was in there for the Rams. This was a problem that extended to a lot of this group and pass protection. And I felt like that over the course of the game, you feel a play caller on an offense getting a little bit more edgy and it infects the way that they're playing, the way that they're calling it.

27:51Robert Mays: And that's what it was. Matthew Stafford, Matthew Stafford, average 4.4 air yards per attempt in this game. That's worse than Dak. Gross. Bad. because honestly what did we say all of last year and I said this when we I think did the quarterback who is the quarterback seven show two years ago about Matthew Stafford and really why the whole Rams offense works in that five to 20 yard area you have to throw it no matter what you have to believe that Pukenokua is going to make the play you have to believe that Devontae Adams whatever tight end that they're going to make the play there were too many moments where it just did not feel like Matthew Stafford was ready to pull the trigger and believed that someone was going to go make the car crash play, which like they have had drives like that this year where they believe it, but it does not feel like every single time they go out there that they have that to them.

28:40And then like you mentioned, you could just feel, I think Stafford's uneasiness as the game went on because of the left tackle situation. Like the, in the middle of the third quarter, when they're in the high red zone and he has a clean pocket, there's like a smidgen of pressure off the left-hand side. And he tries to like spin backwards out of the pocket and drops the ball. I'm like, well, that's not the play that you can make anymore. You're not 27 years old. I just, it was one of those games where as soon as he felt anything, he was just ready to go make a play. And that's just, that can't be how the offense functions anymore.

29:14Derrik Klassen: Okay. But I am curious and I'm putting y 'all on the spot because I don't think you could answer this at 1120 at night after watching all of this live, but the shotgun thing is not new and it's not Alaric Jackson being suspended specific. They're averaging 43 snaps of shotgun over the last four games. They've been doing it a lot. I remember watching back the Philly game. I was, it was jarring how often they were in shotgun compared to what we've seen in recent years. And I don't really understand it, to be honest with you.

29:43Robert Mays: I assume that some of it is based on like how much, like in this game specifically, I assume some of it is the same conversation Derek and I had about that Lions game where they were in the gun more than we would have expected against Carolina if teams are going to heat you up there I think there are some coaches that think that is the right response it's like let's give our quarterback a little bit of space from the line of scrimmage let's allow him to make decisions at you know with again that like space and time and like it just you he can pick you apart right and I think that that to me feels like the defense pushing you to a version of the offense you don't want to play and it seems like that happened again today.

30:19And I think with the way that defenses call and play a lot of their blitzes now, blitzing teams don't get like picked apart, like nickel and dimed. You have to bomb them over the top. You have to take chunk plays, 12, 15, 16, 20 yard throws. And in theory, Devontae Adams and Pukunakua can go and make those plays. But I do think part of what some of the best quarterbacks have in their bag against that right now is like, again, watch what Jordan Love was doing tonight against the Bliss. He can backpedal, backpedal, backpedal and make a kind of uncomfortable platform work because he's just so explosive.

30:53He's so fluid. Stafford has the arm for it right now, but like overall mobility wise doesn't quite have that the same way that I think a lot of the younger quarterbacks obviously do at this point.

31:04Robert Mays: I think that's a really good thing to point out. And I mean, it shows up a decent amount in these games where you have offenses that can look really good, look out of sorts. Like Atlanta's offense felt like that today. If you have a quarterback who can't really move and you're heating him up and you're taking away his ability to throw the ball quickly, you're taking away easy answers, you're making them play not super off schedule, but enough where they're having to be creative within the pocket and extend plays subtly. If you have guys that can't really move, that is a way to force an offense into playing left-handed.

31:37Robert Mays: And I think that's exactly what the Rams felt like tonight. We don't have to have i mean i guess this is a good way to get into this conversation should the rams be on the table we do have to have it we do have to talk about this i don't think so because even before this game they were already kind of on the edge like they were a pretty good team but i think with the special team stuff especially like i know that we bring that up a lot but you're not going to win three straight playoff games against really maybe four because they're not going to get obviously the one seed in this conference, you're not going to win four straight playoff games in a Super Bowl with the special teams the way that it was.

32:15And now you're especially not going to do that if the offense doesn't feel like it has its identity every single week that where last year they were playing the game on their terms. That didn't mean that they were always the best offense in the league every single week, but it always felt like it was their game. It does not feel like it is their game on offense right now.

32:32Robert Mays: And obviously, Blake Groupie gets hurt early in this game and it creates a weirdness. This was not about the kicker getting hurt and having to go for two a couple of times. No, they lost a normal football game. They lost a normal football game.

32:42Derrik Klassen: At the end of the day, Blake Groupies, like what real effect did Blake Groupies injury have on their ability to win this game? They went for two and they didn't get it. But like they still managed to take the lead late in this game. And they like their punter hit the extra point he needed to hit. Like it wasn't like, you know, they went for it on fourth down like eight times because they were in field goal range, but they couldn't kick a field goal like that. that stuff didn't happen.

33:07Robert Mays: They, they lost. I totally agree. And I think, again, we just hadn't mentioned it and I just don't think it had that big of an impact on the game.

33:13Derrik Klassen: As far as losing, as far as losing your kicker early in the game goes, they got through it. Okay. It's not the reason why they lost this thing. I'm with Derek. Same thing with the, with the penalty, by the way, I know that's going to dominate the talk shows, the penalty on the last gas drive by the Cardinals. What are we talking about? It's a soft call, but what are we talking about?

33:32Robert Mays: You love them in field goal range, but they completed the pass. Like they were already driving to get into field goal range.

33:38Derrik Klassen: And you're also fighting for your life to beat Arizona at home. Yeah.

33:42Robert Mays: I don't give a shit about that. Thank you. I do not care that we have like a soft personal foul call. Yeah. It probably impacted the game because the Cardinals got into field goal range immediately instead of having to do two more, take two more plays to do it. But come on, if you're a Rams fan and like, that's what you're talking about after this game, you've lost the plot. Yeah. I'll hear that excuse maybe for a Seahawks or a Niners game. For the Cardinals, 12.5 point favorite? No. No, sir. Not today.

34:07Derrik Klassen: Second biggest line of the season. And they lost outright. All right. So if we're taking the Rams off the table. I vote in favor, by the way. I haven't said that officially. We've said this about other teams. You should be punished. Yes. There should be consequences when you do this. We created a new rule that allows you to put a team back for this purpose. I don't have to sit here and say, well, in six weeks, they might look good. They look like shit. They do not look like a Super Bowl contender right now.

34:32Robert Mays: I don't disagree with any of that. My only hesitation is that now, do we feel good about putting anyone else in? Or are we going to leave two empty spots?

34:42Derrik Klassen: You know what? The whole point of the table is that it's supposed to be hard. If we don't have 10 teams, I say don't force it. Am I off base, Derek? Who would you vote on right now? I do think that... Look at our gorgeous little table graphic right here. Yeah, the table graphic is good. Because I think I forgot a little bit who exactly was on there. So this is perfect that I can actually look at it.

35:04Robert Mays: It should be four teams at this point. Maybe. I do feel like it's kind of that kind of season. I'm looking at it. I'm like, I think there's only like four, maybe five teams I actually feel really good about. I do think that the New England Patriots are better than at least two of the teams still on here.

35:17Derrik Klassen: Okay. Part of me regrets my quick trigger finger with the Patriots, but I understand that.

35:23Robert Mays: It's also still early in the year. This is just a concept overall that we're workshopping. I do think that next year we should instill a rule that the table does not get touched for the first month of the season. Yeah, the first four weeks are fake. It's not real. I think the first four weeks, no team should be able to come off the table. The table is under a glass case for the first month of the season. I do think that we should do that. We didn't have the foresight to do it this time. I am fine taking the Rams off. Derek, this is, would you want to put the Patriots back on? I guess I have to burn my hand raise if I do that.

35:52Robert Mays: Yeah, you would burn your hand raise if you were trying to put the Patriots back on. And we took them, I don't think we need to do this right now.

35:58Derrik Klassen: We don't need to do it. No, I'm like I said, part of me regrets being itchy with it. And you're like, maybe you're just like, you want to prove that you mean what you say. But I don't think what the Patriots have done is like, I'm not sitting here like this is this is a terrible omission. We have to put the Patriots on. I like they got plenty of time. I mean, they do deserve to be on there.

36:19Robert Mays: They are playing at a level that they deserve to be on there. That's what I will say.

36:23Derrik Klassen: But I'm not. Come here and beat the Bears on Thursday and maybe we can revisit it. And I think that's fine. That's I think it's on the table.

36:33Robert Mays: I don't know if I want to do that. I don't know if I want to commit to that right now, dude.

36:38Derrik Klassen: If it's convincing enough win, we will end up doing that. The bears could be like 12 and three coming off a 50 point win. And Robert would be like, I don't know.

36:46Robert Mays: I don't know. Let's do this. Okay. I'm fine. Removing the ramps on the table. That gives us eight spots. Let's at least talk about the teams that would be in the conversation to fill those two spots. other than new england who are the teams it's like all right you are officially on watch for promotion right now houston i don't care about the record i don't care about the record no and

37:10Derrik Klassen: i don't disagree i'm not ready to put them there but i it i'm not i'm not willing to fight for the

37:18Robert Mays: texans to be here at at two and four we'll have a conversation about the texans in about 15 minutes So I don't disagree that the Texans are probably in that conversation. I think Cincinnati at least deserves a mention at 3-2. The defense is middle of the road. The offense is pretty much the same. Like, the Bengals are what we kind of thought they might be in the best-case scenario coming into the season, where the defense is in a perfectly acceptable group and the offense is still firmly top 10 with all of the talent that they have. I think that version of the Bengals deserves mention in a conversation like this.

37:49Robert Mays: so new england houston the bengals and then i don't know all three of the other teams in the nsc north that aren't currently on here yeah i was gonna say any north team if they have like one more really convincing win i'd be like yeah why not all right so those are all the teams that

38:07Derrik Klassen: are currently like we're not ready to say anything about carolina right that's is it too early for that i think it's too early for that i think i think that's fair i just wanted to say i think It's too early. I just want to say the name. Here's the thing with Carolina. I think that they are fine on both sides of the ball. I don't think in any world they have a championship unit on either side.

38:27Robert Mays: I think that's fair. I think the offense has been good enough where I would be willing to hear arguments for it, but I understand what you're saying. Yeah, I think they're fine. I just think championship caliber, you got to be like top five at something. I can't really get there with them.

38:42Derrik Klassen: I agree. I just felt like it should at least be said. And specifically, I mean, you said all three teams in the NFC North, but the Vikings are sitting out there 5-0. I don't really feel strongly about putting them on.

38:53Robert Mays: Can you be at the table if you have one of the worst three offenses in the NFL? Not yet. Which they have had so far. Not yet. Can you do that? I think that's hard. The Seahawks are on there. They're not that far. They haven't been that bad. They haven't been nearly as bad as the Vikings offense has been. I want to see the Vikings offense climb out of the bottom three in most statistical categories before I'm willing to put them on the table. And thankfully, Dave does a really good job of bringing up the schedules. The Vikings, their next game is the Colts. That's not going to tell us much. After that, though, they get Detroit, Buffalo, Green Bay, and San Francisco.

39:25We're going to know if they're worth putting on here. And I think that that will be the perfect stretch.

39:28Robert Mays: Let's learn our lesson from taking the Patriots and Texans off too quickly and allow the promotion teams to breathe a little bit. No one has earned automatic status at the table based on how the season has gone up to this point. So we're just going to take our time. And we're going to figure out the right two teams based on how the next couple weeks unfold. That's fine. I kind of enjoy the juxtaposition because I feel like last year there were like three or four teams beaten on the door and we just ignored them.

39:54Derrik Klassen: And this year we just don't have enough teams to fill out the table. And that's fine.

39:58Robert Mays: That's okay. It speaks to how weird the season has been so far. Speaking of teams that are at the table and playing weird games, the Baltimore Ravens lost to the Cleveland Browns today, 14 to 10. the browns passing game in in this game finished with a 34 success rate and negative 0.3 epa per drop back the negative 0.3 epa per drop back is the current season figure for the tennessee titans offense and the ravens lost the football game baltimore ravens what the f*** here's my take

40:31Derrik Klassen: for you. Maybe this is actually should be expected because this is just the type of shit the Ravens do. You know, this game in, and I know Lamar didn't play, but in the Lamar era, since they've drafted Lamar, this drops them to four and five in Cleveland when Lamar Jackson has been on their team. They just do shit like this. That's not to let them off the hook, but at what point should I just be like, here come the Ravens doing their dumb Ravens shit, missing a 49 yard field goal, bumbling in the fourth quarter of a game that even though it was only 10 to nothing and you hadn't done anything since the first quarter you were absolutely going to win until you just did enough stupid shit that you didn't and the fact that it i said this like five times today i apologize we spent a lot of time together but the fact that it comes a week after kyle hamilton's speech about we find a way to lose these games like this isn't the old ravens and then the old ravens were waiting on for us a week later is infuriating i hate to be this guy i truly hate

41:34Robert Mays: to be this guy this is the reason that there is no special ability to win close games it there isn't something inherently magical about your team when you're winning these close games they're kind of just coin flips you're going to win some of them and you're going to lose some of them the whole point if you're good is to not play in a bunch of close games is there a special ability

41:53Derrik Klassen: to let slip of a game that you had complete control over? I mean, also, the Ravens, even with the Falcons thing last week, like the Ravens have already done this once this year. They lost to the Saints, which looks more and more ridiculous by the week, by the way.

42:09Robert Mays: I want to say this before we go too far down this road. It is disappointing that the Ravens lost this game. We can dig into some of the reasons that the Ravens lost this game. I'm only going to go so far in hammering a team when your backup quarterback is play. I'm only going to go so far. That's fair. Because the Browns defense, one, which we'll get into, is legit. The Browns defense has juice. They have talent. My biggest thought while watching this game was not, man, the Ravens are disappointing. It was, I need Lamar Jackson back playing football immediately. Because Snoop Huntley had five to six moments in this game where I put my head in my hands.

42:47Robert Mays: And that's not Snoop Huntley's fault. We do this with backup quarterbacks. You could have a week where you look great and you win a surprising game against Atlanta. And we're like, man, great job by Snoop Huntley and Declan Doyle. And then the next week, it's like, oh yeah, the backup quarterback is playing. I mean, there were three or four throws in this game. There was a third and 10 with five minutes left in the third quarter. Zay is just sitting there over the middle of the field. And Snoop puts it like four yards wide. And I'm like, oh man, this is tough. And part of the reason that it's tough is that I think when he's been on the field, Lamar is playing at an exceptionally high level right now.

43:23Robert Mays: And so when you have the delta between that and the game that we got from Snoop Huntley today, I just found myself like, I need Lamar to play again. Like, I just need this to happen because I'm tired of watching this version of the offense. The quarterback, the backup quarterback amnesia thing that we do every single time. Look at the Bears. The Bears, the moment the backup quarterback has to play a second game. he looks terrible and then the starter comes back and you're like oh yeah they can just run up the score um and we'll talk about that game later but yeah for this game like I I even came away from this game thinking like Declan Doyle was doing like putting together some good stuff like with some guys who were banged up I think it was uh you know they were trying to work Jacoby Lane back into the lineup like I thought they called a decent game in some ways especially in the passing game just like Snoop Huntley I think was struggling and then I thought a couple of the moments from the Browns defenders specifically were just incredible.

44:16Like Dave mentioned the fumble earlier from Derrick Henry in the fourth quarter. So that was on this like trap run that the Ravens had ran earlier in the game. And Schwestinger this time saw it, immediately got over the top of the lineman trying to climb to him, gets to Derrick Henry when he has no business really being part of the play and rips it out. And that to me was just like, the fact that they have players, a player like that who can make those sorts of plays on top of how well I generally I thought they called the game. You felt their front again, I thought, in this game. Like, in terms of the run game overall, the Ravens came out with two successful runs right off the bat.

44:52They had one successful running back run after that.

44:54Robert Mays: They were 21 % rushing success right over the course of the game per next-gen, 21%.

44:59Derrik Klassen: Derrick Henry's was 17.6, which is the worst of his Ravens tenure, his worst since week 14 of 2023.

45:07Robert Mays: And some of that, again, it reminds me of the Bears conversation with last week. It's hard to run the ball effectively when a team does not respect your passing game. It's just all the pieces don't fit together. But when you watch what the Browns defense look like down to down, we know who the name players are, the Swessingers and the Jared versus, you know, Malik Collins to an extent who had a really good season last year. The way that Aiden Huntington played today, the way that Sam Kamara played today, Isaiah McGuire had a moment. Again, Malik Collins had multiple times where he's living in the backfield.

45:37Robert Mays: The entire front, I think, deserves a ton of credit for the way that they played. And it really does feel like a unit that, even under a new coordinator, has been able to carry over the exact same elements of what made previous Browns defenses good. And I know Miles Garrett's not there, but that front played with a certain, again, attitude, tenacity, mindset. You watch them play, you feel them over the course of the game. And they carried over a good chunk of that defensive staff for a reason, because they wanted to be able to re-tap into what those teams felt like, even if they were losing Jim Schwartz.

46:11Robert Mays: And you watch the way that the rotational defensive linemen played in this game, and I think they've made good on that idea so far this year.

46:18Derrik Klassen: And it's football 101 that, yeah, you're going to focus on the run when the backup quarterback is in, and that's going to make it harder. But we said it on the preview show, the Browns' run defense has been horrific all year. Like, they gave up, they gave up, they got gashed in the rain by the no-Breece Hall Jets a week ago. And these were advantageous conditions for running the football and not focusing on the pass, and they still weren't able to get anything done. So even with Snoop in the game, I think it should be applauded how dominant they were against the run-in. I mean, Derek said it. Derek Henry had two carries for 28 yards on his first two touches of the game and finished with, I think, 54.

47:01Derrik Klassen: Just absolutely incredible, even with the backup quarterback in.

47:04Robert Mays: The passing game for the Browns was mostly bad over the course of this entire game. Again, the numbers are not good. The throw that Watson makes to Judy on that final drive, that gets them down and helps win them the game. And there were multiple chunks in this game that the Ravens gave up. Almost all of them came when they were playing cover two or cover six, and they had a ton of error in the coverage. They had a couple sacks when they were doing that and made Watson hang on to the ball, but they also had several chunk plays that they gave up where there's just an ocean of space over the middle, and he's taking those throws over the middle of the field.

47:37Robert Mays: Watson wasn't doing a lot of that over the first month. I mean, I think over the first four games, he had thrown fewer passes, 10-plus yards over the intermediate area of the field than any quarterback in the league, including Bo Nix. He just wasn't asked to be—he wasn't being asked to do a lot. And in this game, the passing game was mostly bad, but he did hit three or four of those that ended up becoming big-time plays for the Browns' offense, even if down-to-down it did not look good. It didn't. And like some of that, too, I thought the Ravens pressure stuff was just like pretty good. I thought the way that just their pass rush in general played like Trey Hendrickson, I thought had some really good moments in this game.

48:12I thought the interior played fairly well. The other guy I really want to shout out to. I think Marlon Humphrey played a really good game for the Ravens on the outside. Like Denzel Boston has been probably the best offensive rookie in the NFL this year. And I thought that Humphrey played a really, really good game locking him up on the outside, which I think at this stage in his career, some of the smaller, faster, quicker. receivers are not. Concepcion beat him on the dig.

48:35Robert Mays: Concepcion snapped him off on that one play at the top of the route, which that's credit to Casey Concepcion, who is a very, very exciting player. He's also a very good player in his right. Exactly. But like, that's more the type of player that can beat Marlon Humphrey right now. Whereas the guys who are a little bit bigger size, maybe not just going to run by you. Humphrey can still go one-on-one with those guys. And I thought to have played the game he played against Boston, had a couple of like really tight window breakups. I thought that that was pretty impressive. Nate Wiggins had one on him as well.

49:02Like outside the numbers, the Ravens really did not give them a whole lot. It really was having to hunt for air over the middle of the field. And they didn't find that many, but they found enough because the Ravens on the other side didn't score a whole lot.

49:15Robert Mays: Both of these teams are foreign to whether this is fair or unfair. I am not worried about the Ravens. Like, let's watch them play with the MVP caliber quarterback when he gets back and let's see how that looks. and I still the Browns defense I think I like watching them I think they're doing some really good things I like a lot of the pieces over there I still don't have enough confidence in what the offense is going to look like for me to take this team seriously at this point is that unfair

49:40Derrik Klassen: that's exactly where I'm at I don't think so I don't think it's unfair I am encouraged by what

49:46Robert Mays: the defense has rounded into being you know over in totality I still and I hear your point about

49:53Derrik Klassen: not killing a team when it's not playing its starter. But I think that's what's so frustrating is this was this was one where you could sneak away with a win with your backup. That part is frustrating to have it to have it in reach and to not win. Absolutely is frustrating. The Browns lone touchdown drive of the day is a 35 yard field because of the Henry fumble. And you're right, Derek. It is a phenomenal play by Carson Swessinger. But Derek, Derek Henry's lost five fumbles in his Ravens career. three of them have come in the fourth quarter of a one score game and the Ravens lost them all and obviously like Derrick Henry's going to the Hall of Fame he's awesome but like you need the best players on your team to to deliver in situations like this I mostly mean

50:37Robert Mays: I'm not gonna when I'm talking about the backup quarterback thing this isn't gonna have like a lasting concern for me no it's frustrating today I understand I'm not gonna be like oh man are we worried about the Ravens not really we get we get I'm just not really worried about it we get

50:50Derrik Klassen: comments in the discord at times like this like in the noon window people were like take the ravens off the table like absolutely not not when you lose a game with your backup quarterback but it's still really annoying when you had it i mean you know tyler loop made 49 yards he's missed three from 40 to 49 now this year that is exactly the range where i want you to be dependable like if you miss from 54 hey that that shit happens but this this could have just been a stress-free 13 to 3 win where you're like that sucked but we're 5 and 1 and instead you just let it slip

51:28Robert Mays: in the fourth quarter and Lamar no Lamar it's annoying I hope he's back next week because I just I'm tired I the version of the Ravens offense we were getting with Lamar Jackson was incredibly exciting the version that we've watched over the last couple weeks was just trying to get by and I I'm done watching that version of it. Let's get to the next one here. The Indianapolis Colts lost to the Tennessee Titans today. 26 to 20. What the f***? They didn't even lose the game in the way that, like, maybe you thought, where the defense that hasn't been very good just kind of falls apart and you have the first, like, sign of the Tennessee offense.

52:06No, they lost mostly because of their special teams. Like, they had a punt blocked for a touchdown, And then they had another drive where on one of Tennessee Titans scores, the punt return to Shamira DK brought it back to like the 35 or something like that. So basically outside of those two swings, like the Colts were really not a much worse team than the Titans today. But two massive special team swings just kind of killed them.

52:29Derrik Klassen: The Colts outgained the Titans 399 to 186 to Derek's point. So you have the pump block touchdown. Joey Sly was phenomenal in this game, by the way. Just throw him onto the special teams pile. Jameera Dike has a 48-yard punt return. Or excuse me, a 58-yard punt return. And then when the Colts go down and they just zip down the field to retie this game, they immediately gave up a 48-yard kick return. Follow that up with a 36-yard DPI by Cameron Taylor Britt. end of the day the go-ahead field goal drive technically the game-winning points for Tennessee they only gained 12 yards of offense on the possession 48 yard kick return 36 yard DPI mess around kick a field goal go up 23 20 ball game I think the Titans defense deserves some

53:23Robert Mays: credit for some of the things they did in this game some of the pressure stuff that they were doing was giving the Colts problems like I don't want to want to solely make this a conversation about the Colts, but for all of these reasons where the Titans completed 11 passes in this game, this isn't one of those where like the Colts got outplayed down to down. And so digging into the minutia of how this unfolded over four quarters, I don't think is a ton of value. I think this is one of those moments where we can have a big picture conversation about the Colts. The Colts are two and four. They just lost to the Titans at home, no matter how it happened.

53:56Robert Mays: And this thing's probably over. And it's a matter probably of when, not if the changes are coming. And this might be an appropriate moment to like eulogize what this version of the Colts looks like. I don't think that's too hasty. Did we hear DeForest Buckner like after the game where he was like, I'm tired of doing this. which like he is, I think, a perfect person for that because he's obviously been there for a while now. But he had come from a San Francisco organization that was so successful. Like he knows what it looks like to be a really good team and what it feels like to go into a season.

54:37What the beats of a week eight, like when you're in the middle of it with a really, really good team. And obviously last year, the start of it was what it was. But for the most part, he's been around teams that have you kind of knew that they were just going to pit around and maybe they get to the wild card with Gardner Minshew or whatever, but we're never going to be that serious of a team. And I think this has, I think given how like hot last year started, this is probably the most like disappointing and hardest one to stomach given where they've arrived now where the defense is still pretty listless.

55:06The offense like has its moments, but they're just not as explosive as they were in the passing game as they were last year because some of the injuries, obviously like Alec Pierce has not been healthy. Daniel Jones, I do not think can drive the ball the way that he could last year. And so it really, they struggled to unlock what they wanted to there. And they just, they just do not feel like the team that they have invested in and really were obviously for the first eight weeks of last season.

55:28Derrik Klassen: Speaking of investments, Sauce Gardner left this game with a calf injury, which is the same issue he dealt with for a lot of last year. So like, it's, it's very poetic that when you look like this and the guy that you traded for midway through last year to put you over the top, I mean, I'm not dogging Sauce for getting hurt, but like, he's unavailable. And you're not feeling that impact of the guy that was supposed to be the missing piece for you. And right now, it looks like you probably torpedoed the next couple years of your ability to build this roster because of that trade. You're not even getting any sort of return on that.

56:04Robert Mays: Oh, you're going to trade away a top 10 pick for most likely in next year's draft. It's sure looking like that. That's probably what's going to happen. And that's obviously incredibly hard to stomach. But overall, I just think this team was trying to thread a really, really tight needle in what they were going to try to accomplish in 2027, where bring the quarterback back coming off an Achilles. You know, Alec Pierce hurt this offseason. You're missing him. He was banged up when he was on the field. Now he's not even out there. the defense you're always kind of being like a man can we play a super volatile style and get to a place where we're the 18th best defense in the league it was so many small contingencies that all had to come up for them to even be competitive and rather than thread the needle it's been like 10 yards wide of it like it's not even close to the version of this team they would have needed to be to be serious this year and I think that's why even if it's only six weeks into the season and it feels fast, we're already at a point where we can kind of talk about the fact that this didn't work.

57:03Robert Mays: And what does that mean for the organization? Because sometimes teams like this, the early season is never perfect for teams, but you can squint and still see like, maybe if a couple things go right for them, like they can finally get there. I don't know what you're squinting at as the best case scenario at this point for like this version of what the Colts have shown. Like the best version of this is like they somehow get a little bit hot and they're like an eight win team that still misses it and at that point that's we talked about it coming into the season that's not going to be good enough for all the investments they've made and so if even that feels like the best case scenario at this point I just don't yeah it does feel like we're kind of just playing out the string at this point a little bit now we're probably in a

57:41Derrik Klassen: moment where who gets traded right that's interesting though I was about to say I mean And Chris Ballard, I mean, if we are right about this, he's gone. Is he going to be the one trading people away, knowing that he's, like, signing his own pink slip?

57:58Robert Mays: I wouldn't be surprised if they let him go during the season. I wouldn't be surprised about that. When you, the coaching staff, that's a situation where, like, what are you really gaining? Are you going to, I mean, that would be surprising to me. But if they did move on from him in part, so whoever was the interim GM would be comfortable making some of these moves and understanding that we're looking to the future. I think that might be the best thing for the Colts. And I don't think it's unfair to say all of this. Chris Ballard knew that if this didn't go right, it was over. He knew that. And so to acknowledge that this team is really nowhere close to the version that this all would have worked out, again, I don't think it's too hasty to be in this place where we're talking about the changes that are coming and what that potentially means.

58:48Robert Mays: I really don't. But that's where we are. Watching this back was absolutely brutal. It's over. I mean, like, it is over. And congratulations to the Titans for getting their first win. I'm not sure I feel any better about the Titans after this game, but I feel pretty awful about the Colts.

59:05Derrik Klassen: Okay, I don't know if I feel better about the Titans in the short term, and 102 passing yards from Cam Ward is the lowest output by a winning starter this year. He played 11 passes. Okay. But Carnell Tate did some stuff. The catch he made where he was fighting the sun, I think it was like early third quarter.

59:24Robert Mays: I was fighting the sun re-watching this game.

59:25Derrik Klassen: Yeah, it was tough. I like, it sucks because I like an open roof. Like, I would rather play with the sun out, but the way the Colts stadium is designed just makes this brutal with all the shadows and stuff. I don't know what to do about that. Jeffrey Simmons continues to kick ass. Such a good player. and then um Amani Hooker was phenomenal he had like a circus act interception and almost had another one and then okay like I'm kind of being tongue-in-cheek here but like Carnell Tate stepped up and Anthony Hill Jr. did a lot of fun stuff in this game so I'm grasping at straws here but at least the Titans rookies are doing exciting stuff yeah there's silver linings but like this offense

1:00:08Robert Mays: is still like barely functional right now. And that is a concern. It's new staff, young quarterback. You want to give them a lot of time. We're six weeks in and this thing isn't getting much better. Like it's hard to drum up much enthusiasm about what we have seen from the Titans offense outside of like two small stretches in a couple of these games. It really is.

1:00:29Derrik Klassen: Like they just beat the Colts, but this is the worst team in the NFL. The Dolphins are here. The Dolphins exist. I'm sorry. The Dolphins were off this week. I apologize.

1:00:38Robert Mays: The Titans do have some defensive talent, even if they're healthy scratching their$20 million corner that they signed this offseason. I'm glad you mentioned that. No, the Dolphins is the right answer. I forgot about them. All right, before we get to some of the good stuff that happened today, because there was some good stuff that happened today, we're going to take a quick break. Football season has arrived, and with the U.S. Bank's Smartly Visa signature card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase, including at the stadium or at home, watching on a brand new TV. Score big with unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase.

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1:04:51Robert Mays: This game, this day started with a game in London that had my attention from the jump. There are upsides and downsides to having the London games be bangers, but it was a fun way to wake up this morning because that was an awesome football game. And so just Texans-Jags, period, from pretty much from start to finish, you firmly had our attention.

1:05:14Derrik Klassen: It's really ironic that this day started with a banger, 34-31, two great quarterbacks chucking it wherever they want to. And then the nightcap was the shit show with the bad field and the drops and the flags. That's when I was feeling very sleepy.

1:05:29Robert Mays: Yeah, it was actually during the night game, not the morning game.

1:05:31Derrik Klassen: We did this backward, but it was a nice change of pace for the London game to just be... everything you want in an NFL game, I guess. Like, it's one of those where, you know, we joked all weekend that, like, you know, CJ and Trevor were playing in an island game and there's going to be some toxic shit said about the loser. I really hope not. What would you say? I mean, both of them were so good in this game. I mean, they both threw in-zone interceptions. Yeah, I guess. But, like, they were phenomenal. That's the price of doing business. Yeah, especially with the way they were playing. This was so fun.

1:06:05Derrik Klassen: And I one of those games where I came out feeling good about both teams and I was just like, thank you for this. This was great. I feel the same way. This was a playoff game. Like that's what that felt like I was watching. I felt like I was watching a playoff game because this sometimes you get these 34, 31 games where you're watching the defenses and you're like, my God, what is wrong with them? Like it's just like blown coverages and guys falling and just no answers for anything. I didn't necessarily feel like either of these defenses were like super out of place or making a ton of mistakes I was just watching both of how these offenses were called and how these quarterbacks were playing and being like man that's really good ball man that was a really good blitz pickup protection man that was a really insane throw over the middle of the field um I just it felt like an absolutely electric and like even really the Jags lost this game by like two or three fingertips away from Parker Washington making insane catches and like if he had caught really any of those they might have won this game like that's how close this football game was and so I just this was an absolutely incredible football game I came away feeling much better about the Texans like I know that we've sat here and said like yes they're they're still really good at one and four or whatever it was and and all this stuff and who cares about their record for them to go out in the offense to have a good day against a really good defense and win the game I was like, finally, they were actually able to win this game.

1:07:26And then I came away from the Jags being like, yeah, there's stuff you can pick out with them. But like, that's still one of the best five or six teams in the NFL. Like, they're going to be just fine.

1:07:36Robert Mays: Talk about the couple Parker Washington plays. I mean, there were some small, quiet moments in this game where if they go the other way for the Jags, you had that phantom hole on Brenton Strange, which happens immediately before the end zone interception. so that's just a devastating swing on those two plays and then they had 12 guys on the Travis Hunter flag yeah and so which is essentially a turnover so you have both of those that happen and the Texans still managed to crawl their way back into this game I thought their game plan and just some of the specific ways they were attacking the Texans defense in the red zone just all of this stuff where they're making the linebackers cover basial toot and horizontally with some of like the traffic stuff that they're doing.

1:08:19Robert Mays: I thought that was phenomenal. The ways that they were setting up Travis Hunter in this game where, all right, we're going to be in 12 personnel. You're going to play base to it. We're going to put him at number two in a little like YY look. He's one-on-one with Henry Toto and a little option route. They get him on an angle route down in the red zone. Like that's the correct usage of him. I thought that their plan in the first half Jacksonville is of they use a per next gen. They were in bunch formations on 26 % of their plays in the first half. they were playing with so many like little subtle motions and changing the number count and switch vertical stuff against the match coverages like everything about the plan from the jags offensively in this game you had a couple unlucky moments you had a couple drops brian thomas jr struggling to hold on to the ball but overall the plan from the coaching staff and the execution from the jags offense and their quarterback i thought were excellent over the course of this game and the only reason they lost is the quarterback on the other side was like yeah you that's it he he really quickly before we get to cj stroud and he was i'm telling you this guy every week i like bump up the number where i'm like he's playing like a top eight quarterback and the next week i'm like he's playing like a top seven quarterback top six um the last thing i want to say about the jags offense the last year they even if they were really really good they still felt like they could only win in specific ways.

1:09:38It was like they could win as a passing offense. That was it. The fact that early in this game, they had multiple drives where they were just hammering Houston in the run game. And Houston has been excellent against the run, by the way, this year. Like the defense has been up and down, explosive pass plays, whatever. They've been phenomenal against the run. And there were multiple drives where the Jaguars were just hammering them. Like on the one where the Brent and Strange weird holding thing and then the interception happens. On that drive, they were mashing them on the ground. They hit like an insane, like really good counter run.

1:10:10They got like Will Anderson to expand because they had used some motion. Like I thought their run game, especially downhill, looked as good as it ever has on top of the passing game stuff. So that to me is important. If we're talking about championship caliber teams, you have to win 10 different kinds of games. And last year's Jags were really, really good. It didn't feel like they could win every single kind of game. If their offense is going to have this year to them I do think that they can actually really do that now and I think the defense is still

1:10:38Robert Mays: a really good unit I mean again you got you got lit up today by a quarterback playing exceptionally we'll get to that but I don't walk away from this game feeling any worse about what the Jacksonville

1:10:48Derrik Klassen: Jaguars can accomplish this season you know what it looks like when a defense is like out of sorts and overmatched and this was just punches and counter punches and you know getting one step ahead and responding to tendencies. I'm glad you brought up the Jags run game, Derek, because so Aziz Alshire left this game early and came back. They were running on the Texans before Alshire got hurt. And I think that's worth bringing up. The Texans kind of clamped down in the second half, like Jacksonville's rushing success rate was 29 % after halftime. But there were some really encouraging signs from the run game.

1:11:22Robert Mays: I am. I'm not worried about the Texans defense necessarily. I wish we could say this for the end of the conversation, because I do think the Jags offense is exceptional, but this was the issues or concerns you have about the Texans defense. If you have them, they were laid on the table in this game where teams can hammer them over the middle of the field. That, that, and they have done that since the start, Derek, even when the numbers look good, the underlying numbers look good early in the season. That's what we were talking about where, man, like it, it's that area where they're clamping down on stuff.

1:11:55Robert Mays: Like the only real kind of highlight moment the defense had in the middle of the field in this game was that funky invert to play snap when Bullock was dropping down and got his hands on that ball. And that's obviously that call is designed to bait a quarterback when you're playing a lot of three and quarters for the most part. But they needed like a trick on play to get a positive result when the Jags were throwing the ball to the middle of the field. Like the linebackers are liabilities and coverage. And then there was one drive. It was in the fourth, in the third quarter, when the Jags went down and made a 24-21.

1:12:30Robert Mays: Started with a chunk completion of Myers for like 28 yards. And over the course of that drive, Will Anderson Jr. and Daniel Hunter were not on the field. And when you watch what the defense feels like when those guys are not on the field, and you combine it with how they're having issues defending the middle of the field, period, even when they're out there, Those to me are the weaknesses or concern points about the Texans defense that I do think are worth paying attention to. Those guys are aliens. They can't play 100 % of the snaps. That's not going to happen. And you feel the lack of like, they have serviceable backups and serviceable rotation pieces, but it's not, you can't be the same defense when those two guys aren't out there.

1:13:09Robert Mays: And I know that's true for most star players, but it is stark when you watch this defense specifically. Well, and especially with the secondary, just like not playing to their level. and the linebackers have been in and out of the lineup. And so they're just not even as like, you know, ready to play as I think that they would be like, they just haven't seen as many snaps this NFL season. So I'll show you as a little bit up and down. Toa Toa is a little bit up and down still, even though I think he had some really good moments in this game. But even to your point about the middle of the field, I think maybe the Jags first play of the game, certainly their first pass of the game.

1:13:37They just rip one down the seam to Brenton Strange because Bree Blankenship can't cover him on the seam. And it's like, he got hurt in this game too. And then he got hurt after that, exactly. And so it's just like, I still think the Texas defense is going to have moments, but their lows continue to be lower than you would want. And maybe that's just, again, you're playing like five of some of the best teams in the NFL kind of in a row over this stretch. And you're doing it without some of your best players. But I still think even for as good as the quarterback is playing, and maybe we can transition to that now, like the defense needs to be better than this if they're going to be back on the table, like as a actual championship caliber team.

1:14:14But I don't know, maybe that we just have to reframe them and think about them like the Packers or the Lions, where the offense and this quarterback can kind of just get them to a certain place where like, I really do think if the defense is not and the defense in the run game are not griefing them, which the run game was fine in this game.

1:14:32Robert Mays: We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. Then the quarterback can do that. it almost it's almost the opposite of the conversation we have with other teams i want to see the defense play against an offense that's not the jacksonville jaguars before i actually get really worried about it i know it hasn't been great the cowboys cooked them but the cowboys and bills both cooked them i mean they did but those are like the cowboys offense has a gear where it's very good the bills offense is very good like i don't i don't want to panic just yet

1:14:58Derrik Klassen: they didn't get i mean they lost that game comfortably but they did not get diced by the Bengals back in week two no no their success rate was terrible and it took Jamar Chase being a

1:15:07Robert Mays: superhero I just I don't want to freak out just yet I have concerns I think we were voicing concerns early in the season when other people really weren't that worried about it I want to just sit back and take a beat before we're like the sky is falling the defense is a problem for the Houston Texans okay I I'm I'm not saying it's not true I just want to wait one second before we

1:15:27Derrik Klassen: get all the way there that's fine and you could just say this is the level Trevor is playing at But to this point and something Derek already mentioned, throws of six-plus yards over the middle of the field, Trevor had a.29 EPA per drop back today. It was easy. Three of his incompletions were drops. We know Trevor's going to be fearless, but the success that he had doing it against this defense was pretty striking.

1:15:51Robert Mays: And we saw the cracks a little bit early in the season, and this is the exact type of offense that can really take advantage of it. All right, let's get to the Texans offense part of this. the throw he makes to Noel while getting hit like 50 yards down the field. This isn't the segment, but what the f***? I mean, my God. I mean, that was one moment. There were so many of them, but he is just absolutely dialed right now. It is so incredibly fun to watch when he's rowing, and he is at this moment. he is I really don't know if it's just because it's working it feels this way or he's just feeling confident so it feels this way but it does feel like he is like a half tick more explosive in the way that the ball comes off his hand like he's always been a very smooth and comfortable thrower but it just does feel like he has an extra bit of pop and I think the other thing that has really made him impressive on top of that is I think his readiness as a thrower is as impressive as any quarterback in the NFL right now.

1:16:56Like he is just, his feet are always moving, but not in a panicky way. He's just always resetting and always ready to go. And I think that keeps him ready, whether there's a free rusher or he gets a D tackle in his face and he's got to go, or he recognizes Blitz halfway through his drop back and he cuts it short and throws it. He did that a number of times in this game where he would see Blitz and be like, I know I can replace him right now and I can get this throw to Nico or the tight end or whoever it was going to be. And so I just think what he was doing in that sense was super, super impressive.

1:17:25And then there was a touchdown that he threw in the second half. It was, I think it was to Jalen Noel down the right-hand side, but just how quickly and comfortably you see him rattle through his progressions, get on his spot and just boom, balls up, knowing that he's kind of about to get hit in that moment too. Like he's just, he is playing, like he is seeing it incredibly, incredibly well, which for as weird as last year was some of the really bad moments. This is what you want from a quarterback in the second year of a system where he's like, I know where all the answers are. I know I can get to them.

1:17:59And now the skill players are good. Like Nico Collins is back, which if we remember, Nico Collins did not play in the playoff game. Like the last playoff game he played in the end, he hasn't played a couple of games this season. Marvin Harrison Jr. Like had a couple of plays in this game, despite only had knowing the playbook for like four days. Jalen Knoll is really looking like he's a part of this offense. Like if Kayshaun Booty is now, like when they traded for Kayshaun Booty, he was probably their second best receiver maybe their best receiver went because nico collins was hurt i think he's might be their fourth now that is a dramatic change in what the offense can be

1:18:29Robert Mays: if that's going to be true i want to start with the confidence because i think coming into the season that's what they really wanted to see they they wanted to see a quarterback take full ownership of the offense i want this i like this and you and you sense that confidence just breed over the course of a second season in his system. That's what you see right now. There were two moments today, and they're small kind of intangible moments that stick out to me. There was a play after they scored the touchdown for 24-14. He was talking to Jerry Szaplinski, the quarterback coach on the sideline, and Jerry's kind of smiling and laughing with him, and CJ's responding the same way.

1:19:09Robert Mays: There's just like an ease to how he's feeling right now, how he's interacting with the coaching staff. Like, I just, you sense that. And it's easy to talk about that stuff when it's going well, but I think that's really important to acknowledge in year two of an offense where he just really is at ease. And then the, how his reaction to the Moro touchdown, he was pumped. and that those moments I think for a guy like this that can be a little bit reserved right I think when you see that version of him that's real like that is stuff that is worth paying attention to that stuff is bleeding into the way that he is playing right now and you're really feeling it I don't think we should laugh off or ignore those sorts of moments for him specifically

1:19:54Derrik Klassen: actually it plays into my one thing that I wanted to bring up about this game and I mean somebody had to win it's not like it marred the game but i told you when we got into work today i hated liam cohen's decision to kick that 60 yard field goal 155 to play they're right under the two minute warning houston has all three timeouts and like of course uh cam little of course can bang a 60 yard field goal that's not the problem the problem is everything about what we saw from cj stroud today led me to believe even with the pick even leaving that throw a little bit inside with the interception. I was like, he's going to go score.

1:20:32Derrik Klassen: You have to go for this. And at the very least, you've got to make them burn timeouts and bleed some clock because 155 with all three timeouts, it is not a question. He will do it. It's just about how much time is he going to have? Or, you know, maybe even you could play it so you have a chance to get the ball back, whatever. But kicking that field goal and giving them all that time to work with, I was like, it's over. Like, you needed to go for that and try to have total control over how those final two minutes were going to play out. And instead you handed control over it to a guy who was locked the hell in.

1:21:07Derrik Klassen: And I just, I knew as soon as that kick went in and Cam Little was like, everybody calm down. Like, it's fine. I'm here to save the day. I was like, CJ Stroud is going to make you pay for this. There's no question in my mind.

1:21:18Robert Mays: I felt the same way in the moment. And we talked about a little bit earlier in the show when there are some quarterbacks and they're playing a certain way, It reframes the way you're looking at an offense. And to me, what was so encouraging beyond the way that C.J. Stroud played in this game about the outlook for the Texans' offense is that some of the most frustrating things that they were doing, they corrected in real time. And I was like, okay, this is exciting. And there were a couple different things that came to mind. In my notes, at one point during this game, I literally typed. It was after the fourth and one decision where D 'Amico chose to kick the field goal on fourth and one.

1:21:56Robert Mays: That is a choice when you look at the numbers and you look at process-based decision-making. It is a mistake. But I understood why he did it because of how bad they've been in short yardage recently and him just playing that situation scared. I don't like it, but I understood it. In my notes, it said, at the bye, we need to figure out a short yardage plan for this team. What do we do when we need a yard? because you were hurting yourself. And then, over the course of this game, they start putting Cade Stover under center and snapping him the ball. And that may seem like a small thing, but that's one of the things they needed to figure out.

1:22:29Robert Mays: And if that's going to be an answer when they need a yard, that is encouraging to me. That was one. Two, how are you going to run the ball? They had a plan in this game. We think, combined with our gap scheme stuff, if we get into jumbo and we get the ball on the perimeter, we can find enough in the run game against the best run defense in the NFL. They did. The James touchdown comes on that. They have a couple really positive plays on that. They had a 37.5 % rushing successory. It's not great against this team. It's good enough when the quarterback is playing that way. And the third thing, and again, I understand how it happens.

1:23:02Robert Mays: When they had some unsuccessful runs on first down, they're sitting there in second and nine. And in the second half, Kaylee calls a couple plays where they're understandable second and nine calls. I'm going to try to manufacture a short completion of Brevin Jordan here. I'm going to try to throw a screen to Nico. I get as the play caller, you want to protect your offense when you're in second and long, not when the quarterback is playing this way. And so on the next drive after that stuff is happening, they get in another second and long, they spread it out, put him in the gun and let him go to work.

1:23:33Robert Mays: And so even the things that were frustrating about the offense, and you're like, man, this shit needs to get cleaned up, they did it in real time against a very good defense. And when you combine them troubleshooting some of those issues with the way the quarterback is playing, I think that's how you get to a place where you can start getting excited about how this whole thing is supposed to go. When you start removing the things that feel like foretell a playoff loss already, that makes you feel a lot better about a team. And I do think even for what the record is, I do feel like the Texans are a little bit moving that way.

1:24:06I think the run game, I want to see it obviously more weeks than one, but the fact that it, it wasn't just their same old stuff. And it felt like they were trying to find different answers in this game.

1:24:15Robert Mays: I don't think they ran a zone run under center in this game. I don't think I saw them do it. They had like the toss, but that's like a zone. It was all get the ball on the perimeter. Those are the only non-gap scheme runs in the game. We just talked about that. Well, you told them to rip it out of the playbook. So here we are. There it is. They listened. Yeah, they found all of the zone handoffs. They ripped them all out and they were like, all right, we're done with those. We'll deal with those later. The last thing I want to say about this game. Travis Hunter is an unbelievable football player.

1:24:43Incredible. Obviously, some of the stuff on offense, we talked about it a little bit. He matched Nico Collins a lot in this game. And outside of the double move, which if Nico Collins gets you once on a double move, you live with it, it happens.

1:24:55Robert Mays: And again, required an incredible throw from the quarterback. Exactly. Yeah, it required a lot of things to go right for that to even get completed. And so there's that. And then honestly, the interception that CJ Stroud threw, I think he was surprised how fast Travis Hunter caught up to that. Like his ability to just wheel around and go and just take off and get back to that. I do think there is a, you know how some receivers, Amon Ross St. Brown, JSN, some of these guys, there is just a when they're in the red zone and in the end zone, they have this fluidity and quickness to them that makes them special.

1:25:27Hunter kind of has that as a DB and we saw it against the pick against the Patriots and I think that this pick again like his ability to just whip around and go not a lot of guys can do that like Christian Gonzalez is great I don't know if he's whipping around and sprinting to get to that ball the way that Hunter can and that doesn't make him a better player it's just a very special skill that he has like he's just a really cool player think about how we talked about this guy as a prospect

1:25:50Robert Mays: how rare he was supposed to be and I think this is the first week where you look at what happened on both sides of the ball and you're like oh there it is yep like that that there's the guy

1:26:00Derrik Klassen: there's the guy we talked about he's right there just also like an insane game in a lot of ways just to recap everything he had the touchdown on the angle route he had the end zone interception that looked like it might win the Jags the game gave up the 42 yarder to Nico also drew a DPI in the end zone that set the Jags up for a goal line touchdown and he had the 12 man he was the 12th guy on that on the fourth and one that extended the drive like he had one of the coolest games I've ever seen and also got picked on several times just all over the place so much fun I hope

1:26:36Robert Mays: it's a sign of things to come the last thing I want to say watching the way they used Marv the fact that it was like an inbreaker little Chevy rapper out the first throat to him it's like okay that's it like that's the way he should be used and then one of the reasons that I was maybe not immediately enthusiastic about it is that I wanted to see more Jalen Noel. I was like, all right, well, now what does this mean for Noel? And then the fact that it didn't take away from how they can use Jalen Noel and we saw both of them, I just think a lot to like about what you saw from the Texans offense pretty much across the board in this game.

1:27:10Derrik Klassen: This was statistically like the best game of his career, yeah. I mean, this is the first 100-yard game, I believe. There's a lot of good stuff happening. Can I just say— We got to move on, though. Okay, real quick. I just, I love the curl to go. The Packers did it on Sunday Night Football. Oh, it's a great red zone play. It's a fantastic red zone play. So fun.

1:27:29Robert Mays: Let's get to our next one here. The Chicago Bears offense is back on track against the Atlanta Falcons, 31-23. Really nice game from Caleb Williams, 30 of 36. I want to give this to Derek because you were the one that wanted to put this in here. What about the Chicago Bears performance today grabbed your attention? I mean we've seen Caleb Williams has played three games this year and one of them was in a rainstorm against Brian Flores and in the other two he was almost perfect and I think with a quarterback as young as Caleb Williams like still obviously kind of learning the system it's year two in it he's not going to be perfect every single game I think the fact that so much of this game was underneath it was in structure it was just a lot of the like let's keep the offense going type of stuff he was exceptional at it and they were getting a lot of the receivers activated like it wasn't it wasn't just the Luther Burden game or whatever like Luther Burden did have his moments on some of those outbreakers which that's what he's good at over the middle of the field they found Roma Dunsey I think one time on like a third and 18 which that play was completely insane which that that was kind of the beauty too it was mostly a Caleb Williams kind of like in control rhythm normal game and then you got a couple moments you had the Roma Dunsey throw and then you had early in the game, when he's rolling out to his right, finds Colston Loveland for a touchdown.

1:28:46So you still had some of those like, oh my God, that guy's really talented. But I just, I think it's important that this offense has and shows proof of concept that they can have these games where it's like, he doesn't have to make 10 ridiculous plays where he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off. He can just have like a, we're just gonna run the offense and just run you out of the building with how good we are. and I think some of that is how well Caleb played I thought Ben called a really good game and I just thought all the skill players looked like the guys that we thought coming into the offseason and so um to especially again to do it against an Atlanta defense that we've talked pretty highly of the last handful of weeks just a really really impressive performance I thought

1:29:28Robert Mays: overall from this offense some of the most out-of-pocket shit that people were saying after the first case Keenum game are the people posting stats about the time to throw and completion percentage and all of this stuff with the first year of Caleb Williams, plus the first two games that included the rainstorm game, and then what Case Keenum and Tyson Bajant were doing. This is a reminder or proof that all of that stuff about what the offense can look like on schedule, in structure, by design, you can still have all that with him. And then he's going to make three or four plays that the other guys just cannot even dream of making.

1:30:04Robert Mays: That's what this game was. And that's what it should be. That's what this offense should be. That's the version that you should be hoping for. This was a team that even if the EPA per dropback numbers were really good last year, they were not consistent down to down. The success rate numbers for the passing game were not very good. It was a lot of boom or bust, almost by design. It's what the offense was trying to be. And so now this version of the offense where he can have 3.6 air yards per attempt and so many of the other guys in the play calling and the structure do a lot of the lifting until he needs to, that's the ideal version of this thing.

1:30:36Robert Mays: It was the Loveland touchdown on the first drive where he's rolling to his right and ripping that thing back across his body. The third and 17 inbreaker to a Dunze. And then the sale route he hits to Burton when they're up 21-17. Insane throw. We're good. Just, you can't. That's the combination of stuff that you want to see.

1:30:54Derrik Klassen: It was actually really exciting to, because like, as we say every week, when there's seven games on and your attention's going in 10 different directions, it's hard to keep a mental image of it. And like the third and 17 jumps out at you. The first touchdown to Loveland jumps out at you. But when you just go back and watch it in quick succession, I don't mean this as a backhanded compliment. It wasn't that crazy.

1:31:17Robert Mays: He just wasn't asked to do that. That's the point. Yes, exactly. The fact that they can do that.

1:31:23Derrik Klassen: It was weirdly exciting to not see him doing donuts in the backfield and uncorking some crazy batshit ball. Like they were playing within structure and he was just doing what needed to be done four times when it was asked of him. And by the way, his of his six incompletions, like four were throwaways. He had like he had one genuine incompletion where he was really trying to throw the ball. And it was the missed touchdown to Loveland, which is looked like a miscommunication where him and Loveland just weren't on the same page. But the rest of it, he overthrew a check down that was not going to get a first down on third and 10 anyway.

1:32:01Derrik Klassen: And then he threw three or four balls away. And everything else, when he wanted to complete a pass, he did. And I'll even say it. Not that I thought he was going to look bad. I just purposefully set my expectations low for your first game back in basically a month. And by the way, it clearly meant a lot to him that he looked good in this game. Like he posted. I think he's pissed off. Yes, clearly. I understand why. People are saying 40-year-old Case Keenum is going to take your job. Yeah, I bet he is. I think he's pissed off the way a lot of people talked about him. Pissed off about the way people talk about reacting to the hamstring, pissed off about people saying that the backups were as good as him.

1:32:41Derrik Klassen: But regardless of his motivations, he posted an edit of himself heading into this game. And then when it was over, he asked the Chicago press that were there, did y 'all like that? Seems pretty motivated to me. And so with that in my mind where I was like, Caleb clearly wants to make a statement. I hope he doesn't bite off more than he can chew and that this looks as good as he wants it to. Well, my bad, dude. Looked pretty damn good. Sorry.

1:33:09Robert Mays: Just to, like, do something on the other side of the ledger, I thought he took a couple bad sacks in this game. Worth mentioning. Not a perfect game. I thought he took a couple bad sacks in this game. That's about it, though. I think otherwise the offense, and the offense tried to shoot itself in the foot like four times. Darnell Wright hit a guy too hard and got a holding penalty, and then they got a couple other ones in this game yeah that was which uh let's also let's say

1:33:35Derrik Klassen: that okay i derek i tried to get robert to change it was such bullshit i tried to get robert to change the channel with 11 minutes to play because like colt's titans were trying to change the channel on this game seriously colt's titans was getting good and stealers bucks which we're going to get to was getting good and i was like can we move this into like a quad box like this doesn't need its own TV and 45 seconds after I said it shit started to get weird and it was it was pretty

1:34:04Robert Mays: dicey in the office for like 30 minutes he he said man the Bears have never have played like one stressful game all year he said that and then two minutes later I was in a cold sweat wondering how this was going to go wrong I I understand pulling the starters with 11 minutes left when you're on a short week you're trying to save guys a little bit of mileage knowing you're about to play again in four days if they had lost that game we'd have been talking about that would have been ad nauseum in this city for the next five days so i'm glad we didn't have to ben johnson said

1:34:32Derrik Klassen: they were trying to thread a needle which made me laugh because you say that like three times a show so you know just the mind meld between you and and ben johnson last thing worth mentioning here

1:34:41Robert Mays: uh the defense the pressure stuff kyler gordon oh my god i mean it that's that's the defense that they need to be that we've talked about this that is the defense that they need to be negative 0.37 seven EPA per drop back against the blitz for Michael Penix. He was 10 of 18 on those snaps that they need to be chaos agents on that side of the ball. The Packers are a hard team to do that against because we've talked about this. They are a really good pass protection team and they have a beat on a lot of the Bears mugged up pressure stuff. The Falcons did not. And number six was a dynamic player in this thing.

1:35:15Dennis Allen and Kyler Gordon are a match made in heaven. That was a beautiful game from those two. That's going to be one of those when I've got time on Tuesday to go watch the film. I'm going to be itching to get to that one.

1:35:24Derrik Klassen: I don't know if it would matter, but just as a general rule of thumb, because we talked about this and I said, how does Bajon have seven carries in the second half of this game? And you said, well, the game got out of whack quickly. They were down 14-0. Bajon Robinson is on the list of guys where you give them the ball anyway. Give them the football anyway, even if you're down 14-0.

1:35:44Robert Mays: Here's what I would say. The reason that they got away from it in the first half is that they actually threw him the ball on two second and tens for defined negative plays and got themselves into third downs. And so they tried to give him touches on those drives. They just were passes that turned into negative plays. In the second half, even when they were down 21-7, they were still trying to run the ball, and that's when the negative runs started. If you look at the down-to-down rushing numbers for the Falcons in this game, they were not good. I mean, they had like a sub-30 % rushing success rate.

1:36:14Robert Mays: So I agree in the first half, they probably shouldn't have gone away from it when they did, but they did try to keep running the ball in the second half, and there was just nothing going.

1:36:21Derrik Klassen: I'm specifically speaking of like the early going of this game like they had a three they had they had a three and out early in this game where they threw street three straight passes and even if one of those is targeted at Bajon Robinson I don't know let the guy run wide zone and see what

1:36:35Robert Mays: happens it's usually pretty good against a Bears run defense that had struggled but again if you look at the numbers even if there were a couple of nice Bajon runs in this game the Bears run defense was better than you might expect Kyler Gordon that was pretty fun and he had a TFL in this game. I mean, he had a TFL, he had a holding cauldron, he had multiple strip sacks. Like it was an incredible performance by Kyle Gordon. Last one here, the Pittsburgh Steelers come back to beat the Tampa Bay Buccaneers 26 to 19. The Steelers Bucs game literally had our attention because it was a game that felt like it was melting into the window and the Steelers just thrust themselves into the conversation.

1:37:12Robert Mays: The Pittsburgh Steelers now at four and two,

1:37:15Derrik Klassen: you guys have our attention just like i said just like i drew it up don't look now but the steelers are four and two after pulling it out of the fire i we can talk about the whole game as a whole and like some of what the sealers did because i i did think some of how they they played the second half was was fairly impressive i feel so bad for jay and daniels on the last drive like let's walk through the final drive in overtime which the credit to the sealers by the way for killing like seven and a half eight minutes of clock on their first drive when they scored in overtime. Like, that was really impressive.

1:37:47But on the last drive, so first of all, Jalen Daniels scrambles on like fourth and nine and makes a hero play to get to the first down marker. So he does that. The following four plays, Chris Godwin drops a ball on first and 10. He checks it down to Bucky Irving on second down. And given the game situation, I get why he wants to go out of bounds. But Bucky Irving goes out of bounds for only two yards when he could have maybe tried to make a guy miss cut to the middle there's a minute and 10 left and they have a timeout it would not have been the worst thing in the world to try to get five or six more yards there but he doesn't do that so now it's second and eight third and eight he throws a slant to tez johnson that gets dropped and then uh on the fourth down jalen ramsey is standing over a bunch he fires they don't have a good answer for him he gets a sack so it's just like three plays in a row where it's like you did what you could and it just didn't matter because some other thing was falling apart And that's not to say that he was perfect in this game.

1:38:42I thought the Steelers, the way that they played against him in the second half, just driving on all his outbreakers was incredible, but just a brutal moment for a brutal stretch of time for like what could have been a really, really exciting final, final moment for him.

1:38:57Derrik Klassen: He had some really brutal, just tough moments. I mean, uh, the, he overthrew a Buka on a, on what would have been like a wide open touchdown early in the game. the pick that set this thing up to go to overtime where you know the the throw he made that got picked and brought back to the goal line basically by the Steelers was just it was high and wide like yeah I mean we're watching it right here I don't just a terrible miss I mean it's what a undrafted rookie quarterback you would think is supposed to look like I guess in his third career start but after some of what we saw last week against Dallas I was I was hoping he could dial into that magic one more time, but that's more like what the reality of the NFL looks like.

1:39:40Robert Mays: And that is the reality. Again, we're talking about this. It's really hard to win multiple games with your backup quarterback against a pretty good defense. And Jalen Ramsey had his moments in this game. Jamel Dean, on top of the pick, had several PBUs. He was all over the place for the Steelers' defense. I mean, yeah. And listen, I understand that. And so we get the Jamel Dean revenge game. The Steelers' offense in this game is still, to me, very frustrating. Just very frustrating. In the first half of this game, Aaron Rodgers was 12 of 19 for 78 yards. He had a 2.29 time to throw and was averaging 1.6 air yards per attempt.

1:40:21Robert Mays: The worst impulses of the Steelers' offense were fully on display in the first half. And I just, I still, that's still what gives me pause about this team. I think for the most part, if you look at the way he's played over the last few weeks, there was enough where you were like, this feels a little bit different. This feels a little bit different. I was talking about it in our Discord on Friday. I think he attempted like 40 intermediate middle of the field passes all of last season. Before this game, he was already at 25. Like we were seeing an offense where the quarterback was actually playing in a way that he had did not last year and really did not for most of his Jets tenure.

1:41:03Robert Mays: And I was like, OK, you combine this with the running game. You combine this with getting some flashes with Jeremy Bernard. Like, what does this mean about the Steelers offense this year? And what does this mean about them as a team? And then they have the first half that they did today and it almost cost them. And so even when they're starting to build momentum where it's like, OK, this is starting to feel a little bit different. Should we feel a little bit different? There's enough that's going to hold me back a little bit about some of the stretches this team can suffer through. I think the games, when they can run the ball, they look good.

1:41:37Like, because I think it, I think there's something about the pressure it takes off of Aaron Rodgers, or maybe he feels like he's in better downs and distances, or maybe when they're running the ball better, he feels like he can take some more chances. Like he doesn't have to be the one to just keep them chugging along five yards at a time with the passing game. I don't know what it is, but all of their games where they run at a league average clip even and can get a couple of explosives. I think the offense generally looks like a pretty solid unit. It's games like this where they can't run. And I think where you like when Rogers really turtles into himself and he just doesn't want to like throw downfield and it's all check downs immediately.

1:42:14You saw Jeremiah Trotter key on that on one play and he almost stole a pick six. Should have been a big six. Should have been a big six.

1:42:21Derrik Klassen: Josiah, you're thinking about his dad, just like Aaron Rodgers was joking about during the game. Yeah, I was. Josiah Trotter, who's like borderline defensive rookie of the year. He's been incredible. And he gets two hands on that ball because he knows Aaron Rodgers, if the pocket's going to get a little bit tight, he just wants to check the ball down. And doing a normal rookie or a normal NFL linebacker is going to be like, I'll get over to the top of the check down. I'll tackle it for zero loss or I'll break it up. And he drives and tries to undercut it. And if he steals that, this game is completely different.

1:42:50And so it really does feel like the Steelers got away with one in this game.

1:42:54Robert Mays: They absolutely did. Yeah, they got away with one. There's, I mean, again, I think that the defense, the defense still is, the defense is a good unit. And I think the offense has been better than I expected and has shown just a version of itself that makes me want to buy in more than I would have before the season when I thought this version of Aaron Rodgers was just a non-starter. He looked like the other guy, again, for the first three quarters of this game, where I was like, you can't win with this. This game turns. It's 3rd and 16 on the first play of the fourth quarter. Yep. They get the conversion.

1:43:27Robert Mays: If that does not happen, the Steelers lose this game. His two best plays of the day, in my opinion as a passer, are the 3rd and 16 and then the 3rd and 13 in overtime.

1:43:35Derrik Klassen: Which that's where I had to do it.

1:43:37Robert Mays: That's where I was going to go. Okay.

1:43:39Derrik Klassen: I want to, how am I, speaking of Ben Johnson, how am I going to thread this needle? I don't want to suggest that I was like overly impressed by Aaron Rodgers in this game, but we've talked about it so many times. He looks so miserable most of the time when he's getting the shit hit out of him and he just doesn't want any part of that. That happened in this game and he fought through enough to rebound. The Bucs hit him 10 times and sacked him five. Like they were getting after him. Maxie and Achor, rookie on the road, like had a tough day. Reuben Bain got his first sack of his career. That was against a tight end, though, I think.

1:44:16Derrik Klassen: You're right. No, that wasn't against Ionachar. That was against Darnell Washington. But Ionachar, he got got in this game. David Walker had two sacks. That's a name worth saying. So hit 10 times, sacked five. And at least on two or three occasions, including the third down in overtime, he stepped right into David Walker and fired that thing over the middle. And it sounds like a backhanded compliment to say this about a four-time MVP. because like of course Aaron Rodgers can do that shit.

1:44:42Robert Mays: He doesn't always. Exactly. That's the most frustrating part about it. He doesn't always.

1:44:46Derrik Klassen: And so for him to do that in a few moments in this game that helped the Steelers convert big third downs, I found myself watching it back saying like, all right, Aaron, way to go. And like I said, that sounds ridiculous to say about a guy that's accomplished what he has, but that's not always the case with him. And there were plenty of dropbacks in this game where he was just trying to get rid of it as quickly as possible. but when it had to happen he stepped into the you know into the the the rush and got it done

1:45:16Robert Mays: when we were talking about the Steelers offense coming into the season I think the best case scenario for this group is that you looked at everything they had done with the young draft picks and you come away from this season being like man the quarterback just can't get them where they want to go and he's playing like a really tough brand of football but they got a a lot of really nice pieces. The second part has happened. The offensive line, even if they're going to have some rough moments as young players, the way they've run the ball, just the way that group has kind of coalesced with Ionatra playing, like there is a young, exciting offensive line on this team that they can build around for the next couple of years.

1:45:52Robert Mays: Jeremy Bernard is exactly what you build him to be. He is exactly the type of receiver you hoped he might be in the NFL. Useful just in all the ways you want a guy to be useful, doesn't do anything great, does everything pretty well, is going to be somebody that plays in the league for a decade if he doesn't get hurt. And the quarterback, I actually think he's playing better than I expected him to. And so I think when you look at all of that together, I don't know exactly what the ceiling for this team is, but it is higher than I expected it to be because all the stuff that I thought might fall into place has to a degree.

1:46:27Robert Mays: And I think that even if there were stretches of this game where he turtled back into himself and was frustrating. I actually think that Rodgers has been playing better than I expected over the last month or so, and it does challenge what I might be thinking about this team and what they can accomplish. Like, I don't – are they, like, a contender? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. But I'm more interested in what they are as, like, a potential wildcard team or a team, like, deep into the season than I have been over the last couple years based on what I have seen so far. They might not feel like wildcard fodder.

1:47:00that's yes because the last handful of times they've been in the playoffs that's all they've

1:47:04Derrik Klassen: been you know what even if even if they are like everything you just said bernard ianachar which imax by the way really like that nick oh it's a great name really like that's a great name that's really good he's having like even if he got got today he's having a nice season uh their third round pick daylon everett had an interception in this game that's exciting like and if you're getting contributions like that from this rookie class while looking like you might get back to the playoffs we'll see we'll see where it goes I'm not going to overreact but like I've enjoyed watching the Steelers quite a bit so far this year I think people I've been really down on them over

1:47:41Robert Mays: the last couple years and I've been really skeptical of what they are and what who they are and what they've been trying to accomplish and all of that like I I think that me being open to the Steelers being a team that's worth paying attention to I don't get there easily like but I but I am there now. Like I am much more curious and intrigued by what we have seen from them so far, even if this was a game where they absolutely stole one. They did.

1:48:07Derrik Klassen: And like, it shouldn't have come down to this, but at least they got it. And Jalen Warren hit a double spin move also. And that's worth mentioning.

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1:51:32Robert Mays: All right, before we get out of here, let's talk about what made us feel romantic about football in week six.

1:51:37Derrik Klassen: I mean, this thing was a thing of beauty.

1:51:41Robert Mays: Keon Coleman had a really nice day today. Really nice day today. And what has been a pretty solid season for Keon Coleman. And he's not a star. Even if you project out what his first six weeks have looked like, we're talking about 55 catches for 700 yards and a handful of touchdowns. But he had some really nice moments in this game. Obviously, he catches the crazy off-schedule flip that Josh Allen had. but even beyond that some like real nfl receiver moments like nuance and just some stuff that he the catch he had on it was when they were up a touchdown with like three minutes left in the game it was a second and 11 and he's running a crosser against darian porter and he gives him a little stair step at the top of the route to create some separation and then makes a play away from his frame for a big conversion.

1:52:37Robert Mays: He draws a PI in this game. He has a deep kind of speed out against Trayton Stooks at one point on a second and eight and comes back to the ball and makes a play. He's not a star, but he's been doing enough stuff where he's been the best version of himself that he's ever been. He's a useful piece, especially for an offense that does not have DJ Moore. This is a guy that his boss at the end of season press conference last year openly said that the organization did not want him. And for him to answer the bell like this after DJ Moore goes down and give this team reliable snaps, production, and be a really impactful player for the Bills, even as a rotational piece, it's impressive.

1:53:24Robert Mays: Like, it would be easy for a guy like that that has been talked about the way that he has to just be completely checked out at this point in his career. And he has not done that. And he was a very important part of the Bills winning this game today. Yeah, where they've tried to make multiple moves to replace him, like the trades that they made last year, the trade that they make this year, where they're constantly trying to get him out of the building and for him to step up. And honestly, what did you say if you push out his season, if you were to extrapolate it, it's like 55 catches, 750 yards, let's say six touchdowns.

1:53:55in a run-first offense, that's like a pretty dang good contribution. Yeah, that's like a really good contribution to what the offense has been. And I'm glad you brought up the deep crosser he caught where he remains perfectly in stride and kind of plucks that ball up behind his helmet. This is going to sound really dumb, but if we remember when he came out of college, he ran a slow 40. He ran a 4.61, which for any size, even if he's a bigger guy, that is not a good speed. But at the combine, they do the drill, the gauntlet, where the receiver runs down the line and he's like looking at both sides and he's catching the balls in stride.

1:54:28He was faster than any receiver at the combine at doing that. And like, that's what that play that we just talked about, like, that's what it's measuring when you are sprinting full speed across the field, running away from corner. Can you pluck the ball and not slow down and give this corner a shot at it or not have to think about how you're catching the ball. And as someone who coped about how good Keon Coleman was going to be early in his career, and he was obviously not any good you didn't get to see any of that and so to finally see like what to me was some of his best traits really shine um I I think has been like just so cool again for a player that it would have been very easy to kind of just wash away into obscurity over the next couple of years and he has done the exact opposite of that like he's been really cool the most relevant moments of his

1:55:13Derrik Klassen: career were a the Terry Pagula quote from the end of the year and then Cam Newton turned him into a meme like three quarters of the way through last season and he's now caught a touchdown in three

1:55:23Robert Mays: straight games the go-ahead touchdown against the patriots a couple weeks ago like a big post drought like a big boy post drought for a huge play in that game not long after he had a ridiculous contested catch on the left sideline on third down like he's had some really nice moments this season

1:55:40Derrik Klassen: it's it's been cool to see and this was their second straight game without dj more it doesn't it doesn't have to be like a gaudy stat line for you to get through this. And the bills I believe are now on their bye week. So I assume that's going to give DJ a shot to be ready for the games coming after that. And okay. To Derek's point, not only are you run first or run dominant, but you have DJ more eventually coming back and you have Dalton Kincaid as a huge piece of this thing. If Keon Coleman is the third and throw in what James cook does for you in the passing game as well if he's the third or fourth best option in a fully healthy bills offense looking like this that's a big deal if you're if he's a guy you can rely on if he's a guy that's

1:56:25Robert Mays: important to you and he feels like a guy that's important to them right now and that has got to feel awesome that's the difference between how awesome was that feel i can't even imagine how

1:56:34Derrik Klassen: it feels for him but like him not being this guy is how you wind up doing deadline deals for other team's receivers and hoping for the best hopefully if this continues in three weeks you're like no man we're good look at Keon Keon's a month from now Keon Coleman might be already sitting on his best career season if it continues like this and that's I mean it's really cool to see he's a fun player coming out and it looked I mean he was a healthy and active at times last year just like

1:57:03Robert Mays: think about being a young guy and being a national punchline and and just how hard that must be people thought you were going to save people thought you were going to save the offense for the quarterback that everyone wants to go see the win the super bowl and you were like an immediate disappointment that is a lot of weight to carry for also by the way it's not like he was a top 10 pick he was the 33rd pick in the draft it was kind of like an undue burden for a player like him

1:57:30Derrik Klassen: you don't want to be the skill player drafted by a super bowl contender no right that's just

1:57:35Robert Mays: it's a tough place to be again it's just at their i can't imagine the weight that comes along with being a young guy and being talked about this way and just after that after the season just being like just thrown away like a piece of trash and talked about that way and so for him to respond the way that he has that made me feel romantic about football in week six you might have already

1:57:54Derrik Klassen: said it i'm sorry he he drew a dpi on the drive where he caught yep the touchdown as well just it's been a it's been a fun few weeks for keon coleman all right that is all we've got from week

1:58:06Robert Mays: six in the NFL, a long but very fun day. We'll be back tomorrow with our weekly hangover episode. Three games we're hitting tomorrow. Saints, Giants, Panthers, Eagles, and Pats, Jets are our three hangover games. Excited about that. We'll also be recapping Monday Night Football live on this YouTube channel. If you're watching on YouTube, we would encourage you to like, subscribe, do all of that fun stuff. For now, that's all we got. I appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating.

1:58:42Robert Mays: We'll see you next time.

1:59:16Derrik Klassen: Bumtack. We know homes. Hire the right pro today.

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