Week 6 recap: Statement wins for the Chiefs, Buccaneers and Seahawks

0:28Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. from the Seattle Seahawks defensive front as they terrorized Trevor Lawrence. We had one WTF game, and it was the all-time WTF game with the Jets-Broncos-London affair this morning. So we hit that from every angle, probably for too long, and then talked about some moments that made us romantic about football in week six, including the Rico Dotto revenge game, Justin Herbert cashing it in for the Chargers, and a lot more from a fun week six slate. Me, Dave Hellman, Derek Klassen, Let's get to it right now.

1:05That was a heck of a Sunday night football game in what was at times a bit of a sleepy week six in the NFL. There are some weeks, Dave, where we do not hit the Sunday night game. Obviously, when it's the Chiefs and the Lions, two big-time Super Bowl contenders, one of our games of the week heading in. We're going to kick it off with a little discussion about a big-time Kansas City Chiefs victory tonight. is it possible to make a statement when you've been to the last three Super Bowls two and three yes when you're two and three and it's been more than a calendar year it feels like since you looked like the Kansas City Chiefs that everybody got used to dominating because that's that's how I felt I mean we've kind of seen it coming and Derek talked about this last week like there were elements of this that were there in Jacksonville on Monday night like I don't think the Chiefs, for the most part, looked bad in that loss.

1:57And you could see the elements of explosiveness and just kind of things coming together. And to put it all together against what we said on the preview show, we thought right now was the best team in the league coming in to kind of put them on it like that. And that's what they did, particularly in the second half. If you can make a statement as an ongoing dynasty, that's what I feel like the Chiefs did on Sunday. What do you think that statement sounds like, Derek? Mark like if the Chiefs said something to you tonight what do you think they told you with the way that they played against the Lions I mean I would say two things first of all that was by far the best defensive performance they've had of the year so this at least spoke to me that like okay if they need to even if it's still an imperfect unit they can still have games like this which I think the formula for the Chiefs in general is going to be like okay it might not be a perfect defense but we're going to get to January and we can play a game like this like this too to me was like very good matchup football for their defense like they played a lot of base and you saw how well Leo Chanel played for a lot of this game, like really shutting down a lot of the Lions run game, especially towards the second half, I thought.

2:57So I thought that part of it said a lot to me. And I think what we've seen over the past two weeks, Mahomes is playing, I think the first couple of weeks, Robert, we talked about this on one of the hangover shows, I think he was playing a little frantic, a little quick, like ball was coming out too fast, didn't feel very comfortable making as many plays outside of the pocket. The past couple of weeks, he has been fully back in like, I am very clearly the best quarterback in the league mode, being able to find stuff late in the down. Like he just he's playing a little bit clearer. And I think that's because he has some of his guys that he's comfortable throwing to know.

3:27I love this. I think those are the exact two things that I would land on if I was trying to articulate what feels scary and impressive about this Chiefs win. First of all, I love them matching the physicality of the Lions, especially in the second half of this game. I mean, there was that one possession where the linebackers all made plays like back to back to back. Chennault made a play as the walk down onto the line of scrimmage on like a one yard gain on a running play. Drew Tranquil on the next play blows up a screen and then they have to throw a third and 11, give up screen, the Lions do, and then they have to punt.

4:00So you watch that all happen. And then this is the game where Chris Jones really shows up. And I think that's also part of it. Like we've talked so much about this in order for the Chiefs defense to be a championship caliber defense. When you think about how it's built, especially up front, it's a lot of twos. Like you need him to be a game-changing superstar type player. And he was. The Lions young guards have been excellent in the run game throughout this entire season, but they still have their moments in pass protection. And each one of them had his slip up against Chris Jones today in high leverage moments.

4:33And so the physicality in the front seven, Chris Jones being that kind of game-changing player. I also thought we saw the potential plan for when they do play nickel down the stretch. We discussed this on the on the previous show. We did see Trent McDuffie going back inside because no Williams was playing outside. And so I like that configuration of the secondary better for getting Chamari Connor back playing safety. So all that stuff on the defense was really encouraging. And Derek, I think that's exactly right on offense. They felt so out of sorts. It was that Giants game where it just feels like they're kind of scattered and all over the place.

5:05And it just doesn't feel like a team in control. And it didn't even feel like a quarterback in control. And you watch what they did tonight. And there was that drive in the second half where it was the, a bunch of short completions, a bunch of RPO completions. And it just feels like on those, in those moments and in those stretches, he has the game in the palm of his hand. And that's when this team feels really scary. And that's the version of the chiefs that we got tonight. I think again, this is like, if they can, they don't even have to be five yards ahead of the six consistently. If they can just be like, not in disaster mode and like do a little bit of the Dinkins stuff, stuff with their RPOs and like be in a good spot.

5:40That helps them a lot. I also think Travis Kelsey is actually like playing pretty well this year. Like, I know we've done a lot of like, oh, during the regular season, Travis Kelsey doesn't play his best ball. He looks a little slower. I really don't think that's the case right now. Like he's had a couple of drops and he had one in this game that's been frustrating. But otherwise, I thought he's actually been playing really well. And that's, I think, given the offense a little bit of a rhythm, especially since after the Eagles game, I think all of that has really settled. And so I think they're just doing a really good job on that side of the ball.

6:05And then again, they actually have enough speed on the offense when Worthy and Brown are out there to threaten some of this stuff and open up a lot of that space from homes to do what he can do. I thought they looked really and this is kind of counter to what you typically want, but they were very and we've talked about this in other games before, too. But they were very horizontally scary, you know, like between Worthy, Hollywood, like they had guys going across the formation on, I think, all three of their passing touchdowns where they're very good at that. They're very good at threatening you horizontally in the red zone when you're playing some man coverage.

6:39Absolutely. I mean, Mahomes only had one attempt 20-plus yards downfield in this game. But they still looked incredibly explosive. I just, yeah, it looked so efficient. And Chris Collinsworth mentioned this toward the end of the broadcast, too. This is how good they look a week before Rasheed Rice comes back as well and what he can add to the offense. It's very impressive. It's very scary. I think it's worth just a little bit of context about what the Lions defense looked like coming into this game. Obviously, all of the cornerback injuries. And honestly, to me, the most the thing that's worth mentioning as it relates to that, I think is most important is what it forced them to do defensively.

7:20Derek, I'm curious what your take about on this is. So the Lions really didn't play much man at all in this game. When they did play man, it was down like inside the 10 yard line in the red zone because they had to. But for the most part, they're sitting back in a lot of zone. And we talked coming into the week, the Chiefs, when you challenge them, they can struggle. Like when you're giving him windows and when you're giving him voids, he's the best quarterback in the world. These receivers, when you're really making it tough on them and playing in their hip pocket, they can run into some issues.

7:46And I'm wondering, because they have all those corners out and you're sitting there with Amik Robertson and Rakia Sin and, you know, you're really digging into the depth on the outside. Are you a little bit more hesitant to play that man coverage? And did that bleed into the way the Lions approach this game? Because it felt like it. It had to have, right? Like this is a team that more than most in the NFL, like outside of Cleveland, really do want to challenge you in man coverage. And this is a team that we've talked about before. You can challenge in man coverage. Like sure, Hollywood Brown and Xavier Worthy are fast.

8:16But if you get hands on them, they really struggle in a lot of those areas. And so, you know, even in that Jaguars game, in the handful of instances that they played man coverage, the Chiefs were not very successful. But the Lions were down to what? like I think they said on the broadcast they were down five of the six top cornerbacks that they came into the season with like you just can't you can't really play man coverage that way especially when that's you know how you've tried to build this thing so I understand them they play a lot of base defense anyway so that's probably what they were going to do in this game but I understand them really wanting to lean into that just hoping that we can stop them on the run and then get them into a couple of tough down in distances maybe we steal a sack maybe we get a strip sack I mean Aiden Hutchinson almost had the one like maybe that was their game plan but this to me like I almost don't even really fault Detroit for what they did.

9:00This is just like when you're that banged up against the best quarterback of the generation, like I just don't really know what you do. You're doing anything you can to get by. And I think that's essentially what their game plan looked like. Looking at the numbers, I mean, the amount of base defense in this game, and it came up a lot in the broadcast was absolutely ridiculous. Per next gen, 74 % of snaps for the Lions with three linebackers on the field. That's partially why you might be a little bit hesitant to play man coverage. You're putting those guys in pretty tough spots. They've been good and held up.

9:26We've talked about that. Those linebackers have played well, but when you're having to deal with, you know, Kelsey and some of those receiving options, it's a little bit different than maybe some of the other teams that they played against. So maybe that's pushing them that direction. On the other side, the Chiefs played it 50 % of the time with their three linebackers on the field, in part because of some of the heavy personnel that the Lions play. So this, I'm assuming overall, we got 72 plays of base defense in this game from both teams combined. I'd be surprised over the rest of the season if we got one that got to that level.

9:54that's some turn of the century football really is 2002 1999 type football anything about the lions derrick that you feel like is something lasting that we want to hit before we move on i still think this is a really good team when they get healthier on defense i still think they're going to be really dangerous this is just one of those games where you're personnel wise you're struggling on defense you have a team that is really kind of rolling with what they're trying to do on offense and you make one or two mistakes and it feels like you know that field goal that touchdown turning into a field goal with the jared goff legal shift you know the fourth and two that they don't end up getting like in a game like this the margins are slim enough or even if you're playing well on offense one or two mistakes might make the difference yeah i really did not feel any worse about the lions for a game like this like this to me feels like a chiefs team that is waking up a little bit and then again you mentioned it like the lions run game wasn't great they had like maybe like a 40th percentile game for them where it's a little bit below their average they still had their moments, but that's going to happen even against even against some of these defenses.

10:56And so I think you have that a couple of those moments that you mentioned. And so I just really I will say, I think when they get forced into a little bit more drop back stuff later in the game, they can struggle. But even then you had a couple of drops, right? Like Jamison Williams drops the one at the end. Amon Ross St. Brown has the drop that he normally catches. So like just a few uncharacteristic mistakes that, again, they don't make. Like, I think you could play this game 10 more times and they probably split it. All right. Let's get to some of the things that jumped out to us during a crowded week six.

11:26It is time for You Have My Attention. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers throwing to I don't even know who by the end of the game. I do know who's Tez Johnson, Cameron Johnson. We're on like our sixth right guard for this team at this point when Luke Haggard got hurt at some point in this game. They win 30 to 19 over a equally banged up Niners team. And we'll get into that. But Baker Mayfield has another standout performance with standout moments in what is becoming a season where he's really cementing himself as one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL.

12:04Dave, six weeks into the season with the Bucs sitting at five and one, considering how banged up they are baker mayfield you firmly have our attention i mean he ironically he makes you have my attention the week where the bucks finally get to like kneel out the ball like they finally don't win at the buzzer so it's it's funny that he makes it in their quote unquote least dramatic win but what a season this guy's having man i said it last week and i don't have an mvp vote and it's obviously way too early to care but with with what the bucks are doing with how baker mayfield is playing and with what they don't have.

12:39And I think it's worth bringing up. And, you know, we just talked about how banged up the Lions are. And maybe if you're a Lions fan, you kind of want to mulligan just because of who you didn't have available. I'm sure Niners fans feel that way about this game, but the Bucs are dealing with all the same stuff like this team has been beat to hell all year long. It has not stopped this guy from playing hero whatsoever. And he does it again here. I mean, my soul left my body on that sequence. That was my favorite moment of the day. If you guys have not seen it on our social media, Scott, our social media producer, does a great job of having a camera going while we're watching these games.

13:15And Dave's reaction, he slammed his desk in excitement after Baker Mayfield got that scramble. That was my favorite moment of week six by far. He was dead to rights like two different times on that play. And the craziest part about it, I went back and watched this like Tristan Wirfs got beat on this play, which never happens. And Baker Mayfield still made them right. I mean, what a play. And then one snap later, he hits Tez Johnson on the 45-yard deep ball. Just a phenomenal performance. To quote the great Kevin Durant, A. Baker, you f***ing hooping. That's all you can say. I mean, the guy is out of his mind right now.

13:53If there was any play I really was upset that I missed watching with you guys, it was absolutely the Baker scramble knowing what Dave was going to do. It was my favorite play of the day, I will say. And this is, I don't want to take away from what Baker did again today. And because I think that this is almost like, if not a lifetime achievement award, then a season-long achievement award, this kind of download on where Baker may feel this. The Niners defense was a mess in this football game. And Baker's two passes came against just discombobulated, bad defense. We should mention, Fred Warner goes down eight snaps into this game.

14:30It sounds like his season is over. obviously a it's devastating he's the best linebacker in the game he's a future hall of famer in my opinion but like i said the bucks are dealing with all this stuff too so i do think it mitigates it a little bit it mitigates it a little bit it's not even trying to take away from the overall team performance that's not what i'm trying to do i'm more about the individual moments in this game yes when you're looking at some of the long completions that the bucks have they're just total coverage bus absolutely cam johnson touchdown it's a total coverage bust there's so many chunk plays in this game where there's a motion or some sort of switch release and they just have guys running wide open because the Niners defense is completely out of sorts without the most important linebacker in football.

15:12And I would say one of the most important defensive players in football. We got to a point by the end of this game, Derek, where who would you say out? Diamant or Lenore is the answer. But outside of that, like, is there a Niners defender that you feel even decent about as like an above average NFL player right now. It was no by the end of the day. It's probably no. Like I like me some Renardo Green, but like as a firmly, can I say yes that this guy is an above average player? I'm not quite sure, even though I do like him quite a bit. Definitively good. Let's say that. That's the line. Definitively good.

15:42We're at like one guy. And again, it's not to diminish what the Bucs have done, but the Niners defense was in a tough, tough spot by the end of the game. When Fred Warner goes on IR this week, the Niners will have 15 Pro Bowls and 11 All-Pro selections sitting on their injured reserve. It's brutal. I don't know what else to say. And I mean, it's miraculous that they're 4-2 even after this game with what they've been dealing with. But it ain't going to get any easier. And I think kind of to bring it back, and again, to not diminish what the Bucs have done, this isn't just about what he did today.

16:15Baker has been doing this all year with a team that was more banged up than this version of the Bucs offense. He lost the receivers after Abuga goes down today. But just think about this team enduring and winning these games with the version of the offensive line they had to early in the season. So I think Baker's status as arguably the most valuable player in the NFL this year, this is about what he's done over the last six weeks, even if today some of those throws were a little bit on the easier end of the spectrum. Right now, Baker Mayfield this season per next gen stats, 0.23 EPA per dropback, which is in the top like seven among all quarterbacks in the league.

16:51And we run into these issues with that stat specifically. That stat is about the overall health of the passing game. It's not a quarterback specific stat. But Derek, when you look at the overall health of the passing game for that team this year, you have no Mike Evans for the last month. You have an offensive line that's absolutely in tatters. And Mecca Buka is a good player and it is all well constructed. But Baker's doing a shitload of lifting here. He has 19 EPA generated on scrambles this season. 19. Only Josh Allen has more. Like this guy has been doing a Herculean job of carrying this offense as they've had to deal with everything happening around him.

17:30And you know what the honestly the most impressive part of today was? The first quarter, he was bad. Like I thought we were going to get like frantic. Oh, no. Kind of throwing the ball around Baker. And I was like, oh, this is tough. He started the game three of seven in the first quarter. And then after that, I think only had two incompletions because he did. He started to do a much better job of like, again, the Niners, especially once Fred Warner was out, I think it was a little bit easier to find some of those coverage lapses. But he was doing a really good job and he did what he's done all year, which is remain aggressive down the field, like even very late into the games after he's had a couple of struggles and stuff.

18:01And so obviously in this game, they were more coverage bust rather than the like very well schemed up stuff that they were hitting like against Seattle. But his willingness and I to continue doing that. And then on top of the scramble stuff, like the fact that him and Josh Allen are in the same breath as scramblers is crazy when you look at what they are physically and what they can do at their absolute best. But he really is like his ability to know when to pull the ripcord has gotten so much better. So I just really applaud the way that he's been playing. When again, you mentioned the health of the ecosystem.

18:29it is literally not healthy and so even if they have some good stuff and they've been you know Tristan Wirfs is back and they've had some good players and stuff it's just the fact that he is so consistently weathered this even if there's been some ups and downs earlier this year like earlier in games the fact that he's consistently rallied and had this game like he is he's playing the best ball that he's ever played and like part of it he's downfield as good as anybody in the league right now like again some of them just today we're a little bit I'm Darnold still, Darnold still getting the number one nod for me right now.

18:59Darnold had a few darts today. It's close. Darnold's been crazy. They've both been insane. And so that's why that game, by the way, was like amazing. Those two going back and forth, but like he, again, blown coverages today, but like he's been insane down the field. And so even if the one to 15 yard stuff has been a little bit hit and miss at times, like he's down the field on top of the scrambling, it's what we talked about with Jane Daniels last year, right? Where if you have the scrambling and you have the deep ball stuff, the floor and the ceiling of your offense is pretty darn high. So here's the difference to me.

19:26And obviously, who cares about the Gene Daniels-Baker comparison? But I think it speaks to something that's really jumped out to me about Baker's play. You mentioned the feel he has about when to pull the ripcord and scrambling and understanding when defenders are at his feet. And the feel he has and the sense he has for those moments is excellent. But it's not just when to scramble. The two big plays he hit today that really jumped out to me because I think this has been a consistent element of his game. The touchdown he throws to Tez Johnson, he has to slide and reset in the pocket before he lets that ball go.

19:54And then he had another one on an in-breaker to Sterling Shepard where he had to do the exact same thing. So again, that is another element, another example of his feel for that space where these subtle slides left and right. And there are some guys who will do that and they'll avoid a body and then check it down. He's doing that in order to continue pushing the ball down the field. And so when you combine that version of pocket feel with the pocket feel that's leading to all these positive scrambles, you have a quarterback that's like f***ing dangerous, man. I feel like I don't see Baker check it down.

20:28I know that he does, but anecdotally, he's always looking to push the issue. It's incredible. Also, to tie back into your 19 EPA stat, I love this. I got it from my buddy Greg Allman. It's an incredible stat. Baker's, the third and 14 scramble that we've talked about, it tied Jalen Hurts for the most first down rushes on third down by a quarterback. Jalen Hurts has gained 35 yards on his scrambles. Baker has gained 93 yards on his scrambles. Average yards to go in those situations. For Jalen Hurts, it's two and a half yards. For Baker, it's 6.78. So, like, it's usually third and long when he's doing this stuff, which is what makes it that much more amazing.

21:14It was third and 14. Yeah, today. I want to a couple examples that I want to hit about what the Bucks defense did in this game because I also think they had a couple really encouraging moments if this is going to be a team that we think it compete for the NFC it's obviously going to have to come on both sides of the ball and with their secondary also banged up right you're missing Zion McCollum in this game and they've had to deal with their injuries on that side of the ball I thought they had some really nice moments they fool Mac Jones on that first interception where he thinks it's single high they're in cover to Vildor sits in the flat he throws it right to him and then the guy that really jumped out to me today on that defense.

21:48Vito Vito was a monster pushing the pocket in this game. He splits a sack with Roberts in the first quarter and then walks Pune back on a third and seven in the first quarter, just right back into the quarterback. And there was another pressure with like two minutes left in the second quarter where he pushes him. I think it might have been Pune again, just walks him back into the quarterback. Jamel Dean, who they really, having him back was big in this game. You could feel his impact in the game. He's in sticky man coverage on MVS. It's an incompletion. And then Levante David has that strip sack in the fourth quarter and other really well-designed pressure.

22:24And so they did enough to get home or affect the quarterback up front on four, five, six instances in this game, even when they were dealing with some secondary injuries as well. And in a close game, those moments end up becoming really, really important. Yeah, like they're going to give up a few big ones by nature of the way that they play defense. But as long as you get one or two back, that's all you need. Like literally they end the game last week against Seattle with like a really good pressure that that Bulls cooks up and then even it's in this game they almost strip sack Mac Jones where the Niners have like one receiver tight to the formation to the left side and so the cornerbacks manned up on him he fires and then they drop out both of the defensive tackles into the check down window Mac has no idea where to go and again they almost strip sack him obviously the the Niners do the thing that they do and throw like a drift right after that and convert anyway but like the fact that they can generate these plays is like Like, OK, if they can get four or five of them a game, they're in a good spot.

23:16Do we think Baker Mayfield is the MVP of the NFL six weeks into the year? The only reason I don't think it's like a emphatic yes is because I think there are actually some really deserving candidates outside of Baker Mayfield. There absolutely are. I think what the Bucs have overcome from an attrition standpoint is just incredibly impressive to me. Like, I'll say it. I've said it a lot and I'll say it again. And I don't care. Graham Barton was the left tackle when the season started. That's ridiculous. And like, I mean, we didn't we haven't even mentioned that Bucky Irving was out of this game.

23:47I'm kind of morbidly like I don't make light of this, but I'm kind of convinced that the Bucks big three receivers are just never going to play together. Oh, don't tell me that. Like, it's one thing after another. Like, it's I mean, each of them has dealt with a different thing to this point in the season to where now even the rookies dealing with a hamstring. I I need it to happen, but it's just been a lot to overcome. So I know. Look, Josh Allen is amazing. Patrick Mahomes is playing incredible football. He's the best quarterback in the world. Sam Darnold is ridiculous. But for the reasons that I've spelled out many times on the show, I just I think Baker's body of work is the most impressive to me so far.

24:25I think I'm OK with that at this point. I think Darnold should be mentioned with the way that he's played. I think he's been so, so good for that offense. I think Drake May is probably deserving of that. That's fair. And with the way that Drake May has played, per NextGen, Drake May leads the NFL in total EPA six weeks into the season as a second year quarterback playing with a much improved situation, but still not like an all star cast of characters in New England. And so it's a it's an unlikely collection of guys that are in the conversation to be the MVP of the league. And I don't think he's there because I think that their offense does a lot of heavy lifting.

25:01He has not dealt with the same sort of attrition as a guy like Baker Mayfield. And I think his situation is much better than a guy like Drake May. But Daniel Jones has also put up ridiculous numbers. My bad, Daniel Jones, for not mentioning you, because absolutely at this point. This, I will say, is so funny because when is the last time that a quarterback or any player won the award and you weren't certain you would draft them as a top five quarterback? But like you list the six guys and like four of them, I don't think I would do that right now. No, probably not. I think it just speaks to how strange the beginning of the season has been.

25:34And also just where certain records are. Like when we get to the end of the year, Patrick Mahomes will be in the conversation to be the MVP of the league if the Chiefs are 11 and six or whatever they are. You know, it's just so far it's been a little wonky because a lot of those superstar quarterbacks have either been hurt or their teams haven't been very successful. And so it's led to a very strange MVP conversation six weeks in. But I think Baker Mayfield absolutely is at the front of that conversation. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. let's get to our next one here the seattle seahawks beat up the jags offense in a 20 to 12 win today seven sacks for the seahawks front a 50 pressure rate for seattle's defense per next gen stats with a 14 blitz rate in this game the seattle seahawks defense and notably the seattle Seahawks front four, you very much have my attention.

26:33ESPN research said coming out of this game that it's the most pressure faced by a quarterback since Patrick Mahomes against Tennessee in 2022, I believe. Like you just, you don't see those sorts of numbers on a regular basis clearly. And we talked about, we previewed the Seahawks a couple of weeks ago and we just talked about how many guys they have available to them. You felt that today. Yeah, you did. You felt that all day. Yeah, you did. And they had them back. That was also part of it. getting DeMarcus Lawrence back is like, you could feel his impact in the game. And so even if they're a little bit banged up on the back end, having most of their stable of guys, if not all of them, I think it was pretty much everybody you want to see play.

27:12Oh, Derek Hall was really the only guy, but that collection, Dave, of DeMarcus Lawrence, Enchanan Uosu, Leonard Williams, Boye Mafe, Byron Murphy, like you could feel all of those guys over the course of this game. It's hard to single out one guy when you get seven sacks. having said that uh byron murphy is a dog i mean like i'm not saying anything groundbreaking here but i i was so impressed by his performance in this game just absolutely relentless doubled by jacksonville on more than a third of his pass rush snaps still managed to produce seven pressures and two sacks and and from the d tackle spot was just chasing trevor lawrence around all freaking day Like just his motor was nonstop in this game.

27:56It was very impressive. That stat, I'm sure there are a lot of examples of this where it manifests this way. So Derek, I'm sure you noticed this while going back and rewatching some of the sacks. They were getting home in a very similar concept over and over and over again in this game where it was just like a simple TE stunt where the tackle is penetrating and then the defensive end is looping around. And the Jags, this double team that they were kind of de facto creating on the tackle, that the offensive tackle was not coming off on the defensive tackle, and he was actually the one that was either creating the initial pressure or getting the sack.

28:28And while watching them do that so often today, I think it speaks to just the stylistic win that the Seahawks had out front over and over and over again in this game. You pointed this out about the Jags. That's an undersized defensive line or offensive line. That is not a big group of guys. And what the Seahawks did to them today, it's just like bullying them the entire game. Like Nwosu wins on like a little cross chop against Walker Little at some point in this game. But for the most part, they're just crushing the pocket throughout the entire day. And you just felt the physicality difference, Derek, between what the Seahawks are and what the Jags are up front.

29:06That's what was so impressive to me is like, I think as a foundation, they really did a good job of just winning physically. I mean, the sack that was just up there on the board where Leonard Williams just mauls Walker Little. there's another uh blitz later in the game where it's a second and two so they're trying to run blitz not doing anything fancy with twists and stunts and I think it was maybe Drake Thomas it was it was Drake Thomas yes fires over Walker Little and tosses him literally like if he didn't bump into another offensive lineman he would have moved like six yards with how hard Drake Thomas threw him and then he gets to the quarterback so you've got them winning physically that way there was another sack at some point in the game where they line up players in the A, B and C gap.

29:48And then they like kind of stunt them all over and the whole line shifts over. And M and Wari, who was lined up, I believe, in the C gap just ends up free, like nobody blocking them because they're in an empty formation and they don't have anybody in the backfield. So they did a really good job with stuff like that. And then again, you mentioned all the twists and stuff that they're doing. I think all of the best pass rushing teams are just doing a really good job of knowing how to create that two man side with our two best players and just using that as a twist. And that's not like a novel concept.

30:13It just feels like the best teams in the NFL are doing a really good job of that. So this was again, you felt like the depth of Seattle's front. And then again, just a really, really good matchup for them in terms of we are guys who are more explosive and powerful than you. And this is an offense that really wants to win kind of with a little bit more smoke and mirrors, a little bit more scheme. And I think you even saw that in the way that Jacksonville was trying to call the game. It was a lot of quick stuff. It was a lot of boots. Even a lot of their runs went to the outside. Like they did not want to deal with Seattle between the tackles.

30:43So run that Leonard Williams sack again, because I think I think it's a really good example of what we're talking about here with the physicality. So he's lined up on the edge on this play. And it's about the physicality, Derek. And it's also about the flexibility. The fact that on this specific sack, Leonard Williams is on the edge. and then you have Demarcus Lawrence as the three technique and Boye Mafe as the spinner over the center, that's the other part of this is it's not just the depth. It's the fact that the roles for all of them can kind of be blurred. And so they can all be lined up at any given moment.

31:13And that's what's so cool about this. And so you talked about all of those kind of three-man overloads that they did where they're creating these one-on-ones and winning physically. They're doing some cool simulated stuff. You mentioned the Aminwari unblocked pressure. They had like a sim pressure with a coffeehouse stunt with one of the linebackers at some point in this game. And so Mike McDonald was throwing the entire bag at Jacksonville from a pass rush perspective to make up, I think, for some of the injuries on the back end. So many injuries on the back end. So when you have all of these layers to the pass rush plan and you're just kicking ass for four quarters, you get a game where you finish with a 50 % pressure rate and seven sacks.

31:49It's funny because it was relatively early in this game that Jacksonville, they got Seattle on the fake screen to Brian Thomas Jr. They were doing a bunch. They had a lot of free guys running down the field in this game because of miscommunication on the back end. And when they hit them for a touchdown, I was like, well, you're susceptible to that. But I hate to say they got away with it, but you create that much pressure and you play that aggressively to compensate for losses in the secondary. And yeah, you gave up a touchdown, but it did not bite them. Like it did not hinder their game plan.

32:23They were dominant despite it. And I found that to be very, I don't want to say surprising, but impressive because we talked about it when we were watching this game back. Like Trevor had throws open to him. Like there were plays to be made and he just couldn't do it. I think that was an accuracy thing. And there were a couple moments, Derek, where he's got guys here. I mean, one of those sacks early in the game, he's got like a deep corner out off play action. He just doesn't throw it. And so it was an uneven game from the Jacksonville quarterback. But I think that's. Compounded by the performance that we got from Seattle's defense.

32:58I think that's kind of the concerning thing with Jacksonville, right, is it was a little bit of everything. Your offensive line fell apart and got beat up. Trevor was not his best today. Like he was inaccurate and sprayed a couple of those. Obviously, the one that you mentioned where he did not trigger on that. I also thought in general, they kind of struggled to find stuff over the middle of the field, which, again, that's I'm going to want to go back a little bit and watch what that looked like on the. 22 and why they were struggling there. But even on some of the throws he tried to make over the middle, like there's one where BGJ slips out of his break and then doesn't really run full speed to go get the ball.

33:27There was another one he drops over the middle of the field. So some of the stuff that has been plaguing them throughout the season and then far and away the worst offensive line game that they've had all season. I saw some people in the chat asking what a coffeehouse stunt is. Coffeehouse stunt is essentially a linebacker who's mugged up on the line of scrimmage, he essentially turns his back like he's dropping in order to influence the offensive line and then will blitz after doing that. And so you saw that I think it was from Ernest Jones at some point in this game. I have never heard a good explanation for why it's called a coffeehouse.

34:00I have no idea why that's what it's called. I heard somebody say it's like when a server brings you your coffee and quickly turns around or when you think the server in the coffee shop is bringing you your coffee and they're actually not. None of the explanations are good. but defensive coordinators really love running them. It works often. Maybe it's just because we notice it because it's so cool looking when it does work. It is. It's probably a little bit of selection bias, but it seems like it works more often than it doesn't. So a massive win for the Seahawks. And again, it's nice to see this team win when their offense isn't playing very well.

34:31You know, the offense was one of 12 on third down, down to down. This had been such a consistent, explosive unit. And you had some of those moments today, right? You got the big JSN touchdown. You have a couple Cooper Cup moments in what has been sort of a slow season for him because they haven't needed him very much. But to see them win a game ugly because their defense carried them, kind of thought that's what they'd be coming into the season. And so the fact that they still have that gear, even with being banged up on the back end, nice to see this version of the Seahawks can still pull out a win against a Jacksonville team that have been playing pretty well.

35:00I also want to say this, and for most teams in the NFL, I don't give a damn about this, but if you've ever flown from Seattle, especially if you've ever flown from like Seattle to Florida, you know, that means something. The Mike McDonald Seahawks are 10 and one on the road. Did you know that? No, they are 10 and one Seattle history and like what that home field is, has given teams over the last 15 years. But they're, they are great on the road. And like, like I said, a road trip from Seattle to Jacksonville is no joke. Especially that was my flight during my training camp tour this year. It was Seattle to the East coast.

35:36It's been the last two years. It's not fun. It's not fun. and obviously going from a place like Seattle in the fall to Jacksonville, Florida, and just kicking ass and taking names. Like I said, traveling doesn't really move me much for most teams, but I'll make an exception for Seattle. Let's get to our last one here. And what was kind of a sleepy day? Even the games that were close in the early window weren't particularly intriguing matchups from just what was on the line, how much was at stake in these games. I thought in a lot of ways the end of Colts-Cardinals was the most entertaining stretch of any game in the early window.

36:12We had weird kind of blow-for-blow type feel in that game. They even threw interceptions on back-to-back drives. It was just they had that sort of feel to it. So Cardinals-Colts in what was sort of a sleepy day in Week 6 in the NFL, you guys both have my attention. This was a fun one. At the very least, we know the Colts beat the Broncos dramatically. We know they could have beaten the Rams very easily, but their other games have been laughers. And so this is the NFL. We say that all the time. We even said in the preview show, Jacoby Brissett had the capacity to make this a game. Feel very good about that.

36:50But to to win a game where, you know, it looked like this might be another laugher early, like they went right down the field early. Tyler Warren scores. I think it was the opening possession. And it looked like it could be another relatively easy win. and the Cardinals roared right back, and you're trailing this game in the second half. And certainly not going to be the most impressive game the Colts win this year, but to answer and get a win on a day where it hasn't been as easy as it has in a lot of your wins, that means something to me. The offensive performance from the Cardinals today, I think there are three things that are worth pointing out about why it felt the way that it did.

37:27One, they're just using a ton of play action in this game, Derek, and letting Jacoby Percet, he's got a cannon. Like there's no like Joe Jacoby percent. If you're going to let him sit back there and crow hop into play action throws, he can let that ball rip. And we saw that happen a bunch in this game. Overall, both teams were like 45 percent play action rate. And the Cardinals were very good when they used it. The Colts obviously come into this game already with defensive back injuries. Kenny Moore is hurt. And then Charverius Ward gets a concussion in warm ups. And so some snap counts for Colts defensive backs in this game.

38:02Jonathan Edwards, okay, who wears number 35. That was the tip-off with some of the numbers being worn by these DBs in the Colts game. Ugly numbers. 68 snaps for Jonathan Edwards in this game. And he had a couple of rough moments. That third and 17 that the Cardinals had on their first drive, that comes against Jonathan Edwards. There was a big crosser to Marvin Harrison Jr. That comes against Jonathan Edwards. We also had, let me find it, Chris Lamins played 48 snaps in this game for the Colts. Okay. Just throwing that out there. And then the other element of this for the Cardinals offense, and this to me was maybe one of the biggest differences in the game, Jacoby Percet is very good if you're going to let him just rip play action shots from a clean pocket.

38:43Jacoby Percet, not overly mobile. In this game, under pressure per next-gen stats, Jacoby Percet finishes 6 of 20. Daniel Jones finishes 9 of 9. And I think that difference probably goes a long way in the Colts ultimately winning this game. That absolutely goes a long way in the Colts finishing this game. And like, that's the thing is like, I think they hit on enough of their chunk plays, but it was a lot of them hunting for chunk plays off of this play action stuff. Like they won again. I thought they did a good job of just like calling as many deep crossers as possible. Cause it was like, all right, if you guys are on your fourth string DBs for a cornerback room, they're already proud off the street at linebacker.

39:20Like let's attack that area of the field and let's make those corners run all the way across. Yes. We're going to make people run numbers to numbers and see if that you can run with them. And Jacoby Brissett, we know that he can make those throws if he's protected at all in the pocket and so I thought they did a really good job there I also too the interception he throws was like not really his fault I want to give him a little like at least take the blame off of him for that they were trying to run like a little slant flat the slant players a Jones just kind of gets caught up and he ends up throwing it anyway guys right behind him to pick it off so I thought Jacoby Brissette played like a pretty respectable game and in the way that you would hope Jacoby Brissette would the other thing though on the other side or at least I like to maybe take a little bit of credit away from Brissette I felt like the Cardinals receivers made every contested catch possible like in every way like all of them like the the cross you mentioned to Marvin Harrison he catches it like over Edwards's back like turning around which is incredible Michael Wilson had two or three in this game like they just obviously Trey McBride is going to do that every now and then like they just those guys caught everything so I was pretty impressed by the skill players in this I'm not misremembering Marv went out on that big catch.

40:25Like that was the catch that knocked him out of the game. I watched it back and I was like, holy shit, he held onto that. No, it was a really impressive game across the board for, for a lot of the past catchers on the other side too. The Colts guys had their share of moments as well. I thought, you know, Tyler Warren had the big chunk play early in the game on that little railroad off of play action. Josh Downs was cooking the middle of the, like the spine of the defense defenders for the Cardinals in this game. He got Mack Wilson at one point on a little jerk route. They were really picking on Akeem Davis Gaither with some of those middle of the field pass catchers.

40:58He gets Buda Baker on the touchdown, which just his short area quickness when they really want to weaponize it within this offense is so damn good. But the guy who, to me, the two big catches that he made in this game, and I think if we're trying to pin down why the Colts offense feels different this year, Alec Pierce is so good. the one he catches twisting backwards on that in breaker in traffic is an insane play and then he catches a 22 yard chunk when they're down 31 27 late in the game where he's taking it vertical and runs like a big speed in and that that version of Alec Pierce that's not just like a jump ball guy outside of the numbers where he's weaponizing that verticality to run some of these in breaking routes and making those plays in traffic, he's just never really been that guy before.

41:51And so if he's going to be that and you combine that with everything else the Colts offense has, that's what really makes this such a fun group. And he missed some time, obviously, with a concussion this year. And you felt him back in this game, Derek. He is becoming to me something like. I think previously he was like a just run down the field, hope that we can get 50 50. I think now he's becoming something similar to like Cortland Sutton. Like when I think of Cortland Sutton, it's a lot of juice in Cortland Sutton. At this stage in his career, that is probably true. And I think they're both really good contested guys, but like their best routes, Corlin Sutton's best route to me is running that dig route that we've seen now.

42:24Here's finally add to his game. And so that to me is where like a lot of that comes in. Like he I think Daniel Jones, the way that he's playing is very willing to make throws to stand in the pocket, make throws no matter what and just throw them into tight windows. It's very like Tannehill esque at his best. And so with him willing to make comparison with him, willing to make those throws with Pierce catching it the way that he can. and then Tyler Warren being as fearless and flexible as he is as a pass catcher over the middle like he just if those two guys can do that Downs can do what he can do and then Pittman can just be your reliable we got to get eight ten yards here like they've just kind of got a lot and that's nothing to say of Jonathan Taylor playing like one of the best backs in the league again this is the analogy that hit me today I it might fall flat with y 'all we'll see how it goes have you ever seen the videos on social of the people who organize their refrigerator with like Like the super, you know, like everything's labeled and all the containers are just make me feel really bad about myself.

43:19But you know what I'm talking about, right? And like they restock their fridge and it's like the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. That's what the Colts offense reminds me of. Like each role is so clearly defined. I'm 100 % with this. They're all good at it, too. Like, I mean, every offense has like guys fill a role, but like they just every week they so consistently do what their role is laid out for them to do. Like, I mean, you already outlined it all. I don't need to go over it. But like, if it's third down, it's going to be a Josh Downs play. If it's over the middle of the field, it's going to be a Michael Pittman play.

43:53JT kind of ties the whole thing together. Like, they are so beautifully organized, even by like good NFL offense standards. They're also complimentary. Like, it's the way you build a pass catch. Perfectly complimentary. That's why I was so excited about this group coming into the season and really have really liked them over the last couple of years. And I think, Derek, what you said about Daniel Jones and that willingness to push the ball into those windows and unlock everything, it's obviously not to this level because he's not this version of player. But it reminds me of like what makes the Matthew Stafford Pukunokua connection so dangerous is that you have one guy that is fearless over the middle of the field and you have one guy that's fearless and throwing over the middle of the field.

44:31And the Colts have shades of that with like the guys that they have in the way that Daniel Jones is playing. I love that you said that because I literally wrote in my notes today of Tyler Warren that there's something Puka Nakua-esque about his just like complete. It's like he blacks out when he's over the middle of the field and it's just like I'm going to find the ball no matter what this takes and no matter what it takes for me to get there. So and obviously Alec Pierce has some of that and he showed that in this game. And so there is a little bit of that like you if you're going to make those throws, you need receivers to catch it.

45:01And if you're going to have those receivers, they're kind of wasted if you don't have a quarterback who's going to be willing to make those throws. So it's a pretty good it's cool that they both landed in this spot and are getting the most out of it. All of this being said, I think it's a defensive holder pass interference on Lamins on that final play on Trey McBride. And if they call that, there's a very real chance that the Cardinals win this game. And so I wonder, are we at a place where what we saw from the Cardinals passing game and they got a couple of third and 15 conversions in this game?

45:31and you mentioned some of the tight window throws and the Colts secondary is obviously banged up coming into this game. Are we at a place where we'd be more interested in the Cardinals offense with Jacoby Persat based on what we saw today? Or do we think that that is far too hasty? I'm not there. I tend to agree with you. Or at least I would like to see it against not that Colts secondary first. Give me one or two more points. That's where I land as well. I just wanted to pose the question because we talked about the Ewing theory thing I'm just taking my win. The Ewing theory thing proved to be true this week.

46:06I'm just taking the win that I have right now. You're using the tight window example as they're just playing better because they're playing harder for Jacoby Brissett. That's where you're sitting right now. At least for the time being, yeah. I can't get ahead of myself here. All right, guys, before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break.

46:26What the f***? What the f***? What? We can take this a bunch of different directions, whether it's the sack taking from the New York Jets, whether it is some of the in-game decision making and situational choices made by the New York Jets, whether it's the Broncos nearly losing to the Jets in this game where they played the way that they did. Jets Broncos everything about it and having to wake up and watch this game at 830 in the morning while I'm trying to enjoy my coffee and just settling into the day what the so that was the thing for me like the the I'm thinking about your situation okay so by the time halftime rolls around that is around like eight ish o 'clock for me so I'm still trying to get my bearings this is a right around when the Jets have the ball in the two-minute warning they start moving the ball a talk about it.

47:17You're already disoriented and then it gets worse. Yeah. And this was when I was like, is what am I going to see in the second half of this is where we're starting? So the jets get to fourth and one of just short of midfield and they go for a fake punt to breeze hall and they convert it. Cool. Sounds like we might go try to get some points on the board. Then they run the ball on first and 10 when they only have one timeout left. Then on the next down, they have to go a little fast. Justin Fields gets sacked. And then like on the third down, I think they get it to a fourth and one again and then they just don't run up to the line with like 20 seconds left to go and at least throw a Hail Mary and give yourself a shot they just like let the clock go out and Garrett Wilson walks off the field as that is happening he's just disgusted with the whole thing he my problem starts with the decision after they get it to fourth and one they let 30 seconds tick off the clock before calling timeout so in that moment you've decided if you're going to let that 30 seconds tick off the clock, or maybe you haven't cautiously decided this, but it seems like you're trending this way.

48:16You're trying to prevent the other team from scoring. I think that's all Aaron Glenn cared about. Sure. So if you're going to try to prevent the other team from scoring, you're going to run a fake punt from the minus 37 yard line or whatever it was in order to maintain possession to prevent the other team from scoring. What? And also the fact that that That was the mindset is crazy. And you're prepared to have a fourth and one, but then you're not prepared for the next fourth and one where you got to go fast without a timeout. And like you don't have a play call ready or anything like the incongruency of everything in that like two minutes span of football was mind boggling, especially when if there was one thing I was hoping we were going to get out of the Aaron Glenn regime, it was like some of this stuff was going to have some better answers and be more buttoned up.

49:02And this was as far on the opposite end of the spectrum as it could have been. But also being that determined to keep the Broncos from getting the ball back and putting it on your special teams to pick up the fourth down. Yes, exactly. Just getting one yard. The fact that they were and the Broncos sniffed out the fake punt immediately. Brees Hall, I'm not sure if he's their typical personal protector on the punt team. He was in the game. And so Darren Rizzi is just sitting there screaming that it's a fake punt from the sideline. And they almost didn't get it. You need one yard. You have a 230 pound running quarterback.

49:35we're not covering ourselves in glory with any part of this although i do just want to say it was it was a shit game obviously it's a memorably this is one of the worst games i can remember since like the 2022 broncos colts game remember that one that's all timer this doesn't even start approaching that game this is one of the worst i can remember since then at least but what i was going to say is i one of my favorite parts of the day was sharing this with the Discord chat. Please come join us on Sundays if you're watching football. I was suffering in silence by myself. Losing our minds at the insanity of everything.

50:11It's a rite of passage. If you can't get some enjoyment out of this type of stuff, I don't think you deserve the high-flying Baker versus Sam Darnold stuff. You got to be bought in for the good and the bad. Let's get to the Jets' offense in this game. Do we have to? We have to. We have to talk about this because I do think that it speaks to where this team is right now. So Justin Fields takes nine sacks in this game. And why I say, while I'm framing it that way, is that I think some people are going to look at the nine sacks and they're going to be like, this Jets offensive line is a disaster, right?

50:46Like they're setting Justin Fields up to fail. I put this out there during the game and I wanted to re-up the stat after the game just to make sure that we got it all the way through. Justin Fields had a 5.66 time to sack in this game. That would be the highest rate in the NFL over the course of the entire season. And at one point, I think like after six or seven sacks, it was at like 5.75 seconds. So yes, were there some protection issues for the Jets in this game? Undeniably. But Derek, when I watched the Jets offense today, this feels like a pairing to me of a quarterback who does not like the gray, right?

51:25He needs things to be very open. He does not play with a quick trigger. He does not play with anticipation. Some of that is the way that he sees the game, and some of that is just mechanically what he is as a thrower. So on multiple different levels, he's not somebody who's going to get the ball out into tight windows. You're playing with a group of receivers that probably is not going to create a lot of separation on their own against a defense where you're not going to have any real windows to throw the ball. And so it's just this cascading effect of all of these things converging at the same time to end up in a place where you take nine sacks and look almost not functional on the offensive side of the ball whenever you're trying to throw.

52:06And like it could be not functional, but you could do something with it if he was quicker to just pull the like what we talked about with Baker Mayfield, where he's very quick to pull the ripcord. Justin Fields has these games and has these stretches where he just doesn't want to do it, which is insane because he's he's the best athlete on the field at almost. But that's the difference, right? It's the difference between being a great athlete and having feel for that space and the timing of playing in the pocket. You can be the greatest athlete in the world. If you don't have feel for when you have to take off, then it gets completely negated.

52:37Exactly. Like he only ends up using like 70 percent of his athletic potential because he just doesn't know when to just say it's time to go. And I don't know if part of that is like he's just trying to be determined to figure it out in the pocket or whatever it is. But like he at his best is a player who when he does just pull the ripcord quickly, you can at least start to move the ball a little bit and get some of these pop plays. but when he has games like this where he just gets really uncomfortable and starts doing the playing dance dance revolution in the pocket and doesn't want to actually get out that's when you have the nine sack games and have problems like this and there was there were a couple instances in this game and one was like a pbu and then one was a sack with 110 left in the fourth quarter or excuse me with 156 up in the fourth quarter they have a first and 10 he's got a quick outbreaker i believe to the right side he just refuses to throw it and it's not wide open right they're not wide open guys in this game when you have the Jets pass catchers and the Jets passing game construction against the Broncos, but that's not what the NFL is.

53:34Like you have to be able to make these plays with anticipation and with confidence into blurry windows. If you're going to have any semblance of a chance and he's just not capable of playing that way. And if you're talking about the play, I think you're talking about, like if he just rips it when he sees it, it's probably like, it's not a big gain, right? But it's a five yard gain and not a sack. It's complete to the Yeah, and it winds up getting broken up because the DB had all day to wait on him to throw it. It's just, it's maddening to watch. The last thing I want to talk about, the Broncos are not getting by scot-free in this game, or in this conversation, because in order, the fact that you won this game 13-11 with a Jets passing offense that could not function over the course of the game.

54:17Here's my frustration with the Broncos. Sean Payton will say into any microphone that is put in front of him that he thinks Bo Nix is this great quarterback, right? So why are the Broncos running the Malik Willis Packers offense from last year? This is my concern with this team. Why in every third down situation are we in these like trick-em-dick-em moments where we got to run a bunch of screens and we don't let this guy who's supposedly so great play quarterback? Because it hurt them multiple different times in this game. And there is a disconnect between what he's trying to sell us and how much they believe in the quarterback and what the passing game looks like in these high leverage moments, Derek.

54:58It's incredibly frustrating. Like they call the offense like they don't trust the quarterback to play quarterback. It's pretty obvious, too. And it's like with Sean Payton, we have so much clear evidence that he will do this with other guys who aren't even Drew Brees. Go back and watch some of the Jameis Winston offenses, the Teddy Bridgewater offenses, like all those stuff like they asked the quarterback to read stuff out, get under center, like kind of do everything. They in a lot of these moments do not want Bo Nix to play quarterback and like really get back there and drop back. Like, again, this is part of why we've talked about before, like the offensive line is good at pass protecting.

55:29But part of why there's such a good pass protection unit is because a lot of the ways that they will call pass plays are either RPOs, it's screens. It's like immediate go balls where pass pressure doesn't even have time to get there. It's play action. We're sprinting him out like they're doing all these things to gamify the offense. But when he has to just drop back and go one to two to three and get to the backside, it's usually like one, one and a half. Oh, shit. What do I do next? and like he is a good enough athlete to sometimes make good on that but it's there we're very clearly to a point where and again for year one this was all fine right rookie quarterback there's going to be some growing pains you're going to have to learn stuff now that we're in year two of the same offense like I would have expected him to be able to take more of a step mentally but they clearly don't want to burden him with anything more you look at some of the third down choices in this game like into the third quarter they have a third and forward nine minutes left that was the one where he dirts it on that throw to McLaughlin in the right flat.

56:21They have a third and 10 with 156 left in the third quarter. They run it. They can Prentice the ball on third and 10. It's not third and 18. It's third and 10. Like you don't trust your offense and your quarterback to try to make a play on third and 10. I mean, just so often they're, they're, they're not even giving him the opportunity to drop back in these moments. And I understand that you have your frustrations with Bo Nix, Derek. I think Bo Nix is a better quarterback than what the Broncos are asking him to do in these moments, even if he has limitations. I know the end. Oh, go ahead, Derek.

56:55I honestly think he might be. I think he's better than what this. He's played better than what this looked like. He is good enough to be asked to make a play on third and 10 in an NFL game. I, this, last year, I felt like he, they were getting away with it. I, because here's my thing on a lot of these, I think this is why they're scared of it on a lot of those third and sevens, third and eights, whatever it is, higher probability that you're going to, you know, not be able to do whatever you want to do in pass protection. He's going to get pressured. Even if he can make some of these throws beyond the six and make some of these shows down the field.

57:27I think when you crowd his space, he is one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. And that is not a problem. We'll tell you that, that it does bear out in the numbers over the last. He was one of five in this game, two games, however many he's played. Yeah. Like he, he just, he's, it's been a consistent issue for him. And again, as a rookie, I could maybe give him some grace for that. And we'll see where it is by year two, year three, six weeks into year two. It's just as bad as it was before. And so that's, I think why they have a lot of the issues and you know what, maybe there still is an argument that like, they need to live with more of the volatility on third down.

57:58Cause he will still make good place. He's a good scrambler. If the throw is there, he has the arm to make it. It's just, I, it feels like they're a little bit scared of, of some of the worst moments in those, in those spots. They're too scared of it. In my opinion, that's where I land. I think they are too risk averse in those moments for a guy that they think and say is good. If we want to be generous, and I don't know how much I believe this, but if we want to be generous, could this be a situation where Sean Payton was that confident that Justin Fields' offense was not going to get the better of his defense and acted accordingly?

58:32But they're in a position to win the game with two minutes left. to the detriment of his own offense. I mean, that is the best thing about this Denver team right now is the defense. And when Justin Fields is putting on a performance like this, maybe you adjust your play calling accordingly, but I don't think that holds muster like under closer scrutiny. Yeah, I don't think you should ever be trying to win an NFL game by two points and hope the other team screws up when they have the ball at the end of the game with the chance to win it, which is exactly what happened with the Jets. They sure did, which before we get out of here, I do just want to point out like to put that on Justin Fields with what we had seen to this point is insane.

59:15To ask Justin Fields to pick up what was it? Fourth and eight. When, by the way, do you know Nick Folk hit his career long two weeks ago in that Monday night game? Everyone's hitting their career long at some point this year. I mean, it's true. And with the way that these, the way that the K-balls are this year, Nick Folk hit a 58-yard field goal against Miami on Monday Night Football two weeks ago. I know four yards is a lot, but you really think Justin Fields had a better shot of picking that up than a 61-yarder from Nick Folk? Than just hoping Nick Folk can hit a kick that's three or four yards further?

59:51I thought that was bonkers by Aaron Glenn. I mean, ideally, you'd like to think your quarterback can pull that off, but you had three hours of proof that Justin Fields was not going to do that. And you still sent him out there. I thought that was crazy. I also think that they're on the 46-yard line, right? With 156 left after a four-yard run from Brees Hall gives them a first down. And they drop back and get sacked. Like, just hand the ball. Usually I wouldn't say this. Usually I would destroy a team for doing this. Just hand the ball off three times. In that situation, just hand the ball off three times and see if you can get three yards and set yourself up for a 60-yard field goal.

1:00:27They do not do that. And ultimately, they lose the game. So again, whether it's, I don't think we should be surprised that there were some situational mistakes made by the Jets, considering what happened during that two minute drill. One more entry here in WTF, not a full entry. I want to just put a couple of these teams on notice based on the way that they play today. And we're going to dig into these games more in depth tomorrow on the hangover. Both the Rams and the Packers, you need to be better than what I saw from you today. The Rams scored 17 points against a Ravens defense that made the Texans, who could not move the ball for a month, look like the greatest show on turf last week.

1:01:06And the Packers somehow are in a one-score game with Joe Flacco, who's been there for three days in Lambeau, and they have to make us, like, sweat it out near the end. So we will talk about both of these games in more depth tomorrow, but both the Rams and the Packers after today, even if you won, I'm disappointed, and you are on notice after the way that Sunday went. Semi-WTF, not all the way, just semi. Yes, yes. We're WTH, what the hell, Packers and Rams after this game. So we will dig into both of those more in the hangover tomorrow. But before we get out of here, let's talk about how we cannot be romantic about football from week six.

1:01:45I mean, this thing was a thing of beauty. I'm going to start this. How can you not be romantic about Rico Dowdle after this week telling the Cowboys that they had to strap it up And then afterwards, when he had 239 yards from scrimmage and he was asked about it, all he said was they didn't strap it up. I absolutely love that. That is like that's a mic drop moment from Rico Dotto, who had a phenomenal game today. And beyond what Rico Dotto did, I was just so impressed by the entire operation for the Carolina Panthers running game today. It honestly reminded me, Derek, of the conversation we were having about the Cowboys offense after they played against the Jets, when they're missing all these offensive line starters, the Panthers come into this game missing three of their starters along the offensive line.

1:02:33Taylor Moten doesn't play in this game. Austin Corbett, their starting center, doesn't play in this game. And Robert Hunt, their starting right guard, does not play in this game. And I thought their backup offensive line, 60 % backup offensive line, beat the shit out of the Cowboys front this entire day up front. And some of it, they struggle in pass protection sometimes. but when you get Iki Ikuanu and Damian Lewis double teaming people on the left side, it's pure carnage. But it wasn't just them. I think Cade Mays, who's the backup center for the Panthers, has been excellent on the ground for the last couple weeks.

1:03:08And Brady Christensen, their backup right guard, he's a really good mover. He's a good athlete for somebody who's a little bit undersized. All of those guys had their moments. The tight ends were phenomenal blocking in this game. And then you combine that with Rico Dottle doing everything he could with every single carry is a 35 yard touchdown in the air. It was just a really impressive ass kicking performance. And just a we are going to push you around and beat you up game from the Carolina Panthers. And beyond the Rico Dottle revenge game part of it, it's hard for me not to be romantic about that side of things.

1:03:39This wasn't everybody made it happen type of game. And this is even a little bit of like how many times over the past couple of years have we complained about the Dave Canales run game? And I think we started to see it obviously get a little bit better and more varied this year. I thought in this game they did a great job of they would pull one guard and it would start to look like power. But they'd stretch him all the way out to the perimeter and just have him leading and go just murder the corner off the screen. And that will hit three or four huge plays off of that. They had a toss to the left side early in the second quarter where you mentioned some of the tight ends doing a good job of blocking.

1:04:10Ted Aroa McMillan destroyed one of the DBs on that play. And I was like, OK, if you're a superstar, like a first first round receiver who's already a good pass catcher is doing that in the ground for you. Everybody here is clearly bought in and then obviously Dowdle doing what he did just in terms of like really trying to run through people on on every every single snap. He just this was I think we knew the Carolina Panthers run game was good, but these last two weeks they have looked insane. There was an eight yard gain. It was a pitch, I believe, to the right side at some point earlier and early in the game.

1:04:45And there are these moments when you have these really good run blocking tackles. Trent Williams does this a lot. Josh Simmons has actually done this a couple of times this year. Well, they'll do this like a little snatch on the backside where they'll just dump somebody rather than trying to reach them. Like they'll use their momentum against them and just dump them face first into the ground. Iquanu does that on this play. And Cade Mays just does a phenomenal job where he's reaching a one technique that's like a gap and a half over from him. And so to see all of these guys chipping in in this way, I think it says a lot about the current state of the Dallas Cowboys offense, but I think it says just as much about the current run game infrastructure for Dallas Cowboys defense, but it also says a lot about exactly what Derek is saying.

1:05:25This group was a little bit stale, a little bit simple, a lot of inside zone from the gun last year. And so to see them really add some layers to this run game, even with some backup offensive linemen in the game and have a back in Rico Dotto who can really make the most of it, he's a good player. It's really fun to watch it all come together. I want to make sure this doesn't go unsaid. I don't think I don't think anything sexier happened in the NFL this week than the way Carolina ended this game. Like if you're a football coach, is there anything more arousing than getting the ball with six minutes to play and not giving it back?

1:05:59I mean, that is hard to do. Dallas had two timeouts and the two minute warning. Dak was balling, by the way. Dak would belong firmly in that MVP shortlist if he had something resembling a defense. Very true. He is playing the best ball of his career. Pickens just crushing it and not mattering. George Pickens went nuclear for the second time in three weeks and it didn't matter. Six minutes and seven seconds on the clock and you don't give it back because you're just mauling your opposition? That's not supposed to happen in the NFL. It's just not. There was an 11-yarder for ETN with 146 left. It's a hilarious play.

1:06:36if you guys want to go watch it. It's like a downhill, just like straight duo run. And Etienne essentially like hides behind Cade Mays and just runs behind him for 11 yards because the entire line of scrimmage is moving. I can't, I remember anything like that in an NFL game, but I think that speaks to the physicality gap that we had with the Panthers offense against the Cowboys defense today. All right, that was very romantic. I spent a lot of time on that. I'm sorry, but I was very worked up about it. Derek what made you romantic about football in week six I mean mine is mine is a little bit selfish mine is a little bit personally romantic but like I really think it's this is almost every other time a year one or year two quarterback starts having their moment it's like the only thing anyone wants to talk about and Drake may is like top five in success rate and EPA per play and had this game today and it still feels like we're not all the way there there are two sequences in this game that to me were just insane early on he has a third and nine where he has to step up a little bit and then throw the shallow route back across the left and so they convert that on the next play they get into this like half roll to play action shot to the right and he like whips it all the way back deep over to the left side of the field to the mario douglas so that's like you see all his pocket stuff and his ability to lift the floor of the offense on that third and nine and then you get the big explosive play there's you get a similar sequence a little little bit later I think it was maybe two drives later where he's got to step up in the pocket and very late like literally flips the ball out to Travion Henderson on on a little check down like not like throw the ball overhand like flipped it out almost the way I think Mahomes did uh in one of these uh Sunday night attempts that he had so he does that and then very shortly after that throws a monster 25 yard touchdown down the seam where he's rolling out a little bit to his left down the seam to Kayshawn Booty and like Booty obviously actually makes a really good catch on that play which is another quiet part of this Patriots offense like booty is actually playing really well this season um but this was just like a for it to come together for this player in this way who's this talented it's just it's it's incredible to watch him like really putting up numbers with all the big dogs in the league it's undeniable I mean he's playing about as well as like any quarterback in football right now again with the supporting cast that wall improved is still not a high quality group he's doing everything you could want him to do as a quarterback at this point.

1:08:53I love that Booty and Pop Douglas both went off in this game, like two young draft picks. I mean, and Stefan Diggs has been great for them. And the one Diggs play got wiped off. Yeah, exactly. But to have homegrown guys growing with Drake May, I thought was really fun. But one thing I wanted to say, I went and watched the all 22 of the 53 yarder to Pop Douglas. And all 22 zoomed out in general. That's the whole point. But between the very deep play fake and just the moon ball that Drake made through, the cameraman is like panicking to zoom out to get the whole play in frame. And it was very enjoyable.

1:09:34Dave, what made you romantic about football in week six? Derek, I missed you at the end of the early window, man, because our desks and studio are next to each other. And you could not have laid out. You couldn't have been more right about the way that the Dolphins could have won this game from the LA Chargers. Like they got a couple of big explosives. You get the A-chan long touchdown after the turnover. You get the waddle catch. And it looked like Miami was going to steal this game with a minute to play. And the Chargers are about to lose again and fall to 500. And the sky is falling. And then, you know, you got arguably just the most naturally talented thrower of the football slash athlete at quarterback.

1:10:18It was also 6 '6", like 240. So there you go. with 34 seconds to play the chargers have the ball they are staring three and three in the face second and 10 34 seconds to play your own 41 yard line jalen phillips is hanging off of justin herbert when he throws this ball on let to lad mcconke who's also an alien by the way in terms of like how big and strong is to be able to shake off jalen phillips and to actually and then lad mcconke looked more like the guy that we remember from his rookie year in this game just takes the shallow crosser. Shea just threw the brakes on Dante Trader Jr., which is not fair.

1:10:55He's a rookie playing early in the season. Did you hear what Jim Harbaugh said about this play, by the way? He said he will remember this play until they throw dirt over him. Guys got away with words. That seems tame for Harbaugh. It sure is. But he was like, yeah, I'll have this play imprinted on me until they throw dirt over me. Herbert's made a few of these ridiculous plays this year, but I don't think you can undersell how big this is. With a minute to play, to get yourself back in position, four and two, the Broncos already won. Obviously, the Chiefs got a big win on Sunday night. They are surging back.

1:11:33They look like they're not going to miss a beat. You lose this game. It's dramatic to say that it's all over, but how much better do you feel pulling this out of the fire and buying yourself from breathing room to hopefully get healthier? They had to have this game. It's against an AFC team, so tiebreakers are involved. as well. Like when you're talking about losing conference games, they had to have this. And Herbert made a ridiculous play to make it happen. And it's very romantic. I leave this game feeling pretty worried about the current state of the Chargers. We're very worried. The defense, to me, it's the defense.

1:12:06The fact that the Dolphins ran the ball with the efficiency they did in this game, they were explosive. They gave up so many explosive plays. I'm concerned about the Chargers overall, but absolutely. A hell of a lot better to be concerned at four and two than if you lose this game to a reeling Dolphins team? Well, speaking of a reeling Dolphins team, think about the vibe shift with Jim Harbaugh coming out and saying he's going to remember that play until they throw dirt over him. And then Tua Taguailoa comes out after the game and starts talking about players missing player-only meetings and wondering if we're going to have to start making that stuff mandatory.

1:12:38Slimest of margins between, man, we pulled out a game we probably shouldn't have won and everybody's skipping shit and I'm really pissed off about the current state of the locker room. So that's how thin those margins are in the NFL. Speaking of, let's talk about what we learned during week six. You know, I think I've learned something today. I don't mean to be a downer, but I think what I learned about the NFL in week six is that sometimes Sundays just kind of suck, right? Sometimes the slate is not what you want it to be. Sometimes you're really digging for exciting moments. And I think part of that is because the two games, two of the games that we really should have been excited about today, that would have been some of the marquee games of the day.

1:13:21Brady called one of them, but Tom Brady, the fact that Brady was on the Rams game, Rams Ravens is crazy. Tom Brady called a game where Cooper Rush got benched for Tyler Huntley. Like that happened today. That was not supposed to be Rams Ravens. We were joking about it during the broadcast today. And just during the day, the last time the Rams played the Ravens, we did like an entire episode of the athletic football show about why Wyatt was like a beautiful example of everything right about schematics in the NFL. And today we had to watch Cooper Rush get benched, and we had to watch the Rams do whatever it is they did, missing kicks and, again, just punching themselves in the red zone.

1:13:59Like, that was an ugly game. And then the other one, Bengals-Packers, when the schedule makers are making this thing at 325 on a Sunday at Lambeau, we're thinking we get Joe Burrow against Jordan Love. This thing is going to be high-flying and fun. And instead, we watched Joe Flacco, who was better than Jake Browning, but still is not the type of game I think we all expected coming into the year. And so I think we've been robbed of some games on this Sunday slate. We've been robbed of certain versions of these teams. And I think it kind of provides and produces the atmosphere we're talking about here, where the Bucs are suddenly really frisky and Baker Mayfield feels like the MVP.

1:14:36And what can Seattle do in the NFC? So I think in the long term, the current state of the league and missing out on some of these higher profile teams we thought we'd have is going to be fun and interesting. But on a day like today, you kind of feel the absence a little bit. I think we've given the schedule makers a lot of credit over the first six weeks. And I mean, this isn't their fault. Like this is this is football. That's why over the course of the summer, I get sick of hearing myself say so much stuff that we can't predict is going to happen and it's not worth getting hung up on. but this is what you're talking about.

1:15:09I mean, yeah, your two tentpole games of each window were afterthoughts. And if this is a bad Sunday, it's still pretty good, right? Like we got... If this is as bad as it gets, we're doing pretty damn well overall. If this is a bad Sunday, it's still pretty good. But this is what I try to keep in my mind when I'm arguing with people in July, where I'm like, the thing you're worked up about is not going to freaking matter when Joe Flacco gets traded to the Bengals and has to start against the Packers. Like all sorts of stuff happens. And this Sunday suffered a little bit because of it, for sure.

1:15:44Even if this Sunday suffered a little bit, we've got two games coming up tomorrow and they're pretty good games. I have to watch the Chicago Bears play football, which we'll see how I feel about that when it's all said and done. But we will be recapping both of those games live on this very YouTube channel tomorrow night after they wrap up. Bill's Falcons, Bears Commanders, really looking forward to that. If you guys are watching this on YouTube, and if you haven't been checking out the shows on YouTube, encourage you to do so. We're playing highlights from a lot of the plays that we're discussing because The Athletic has access to those now.

1:16:15It's really kind of changed the feel. We've got some fun new graphics this year, so encourage you to check that out if you're interested. We've got a lot of standalone YouTube content. I have a new series called Did You Notice that we're going to be doing every single week. Derek has some film stuff that he's doing consistently. So a lot of new, fun stuff on the YouTube channel. encourage you to like and subscribe here if you are watching we'll be back on youtube tomorrow night after the monday night games for now that's all we got sincerely appreciate you guys listening we'll talk to you very soon