Week 7 preview: Super Bowl MVP returns, "biblical greed" consequences & deep dive on the Buccaneers defense

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2:05Robert Mays: Welcome to the athletic football show brought to you by the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. The week seven preview is here. Me, Dave Hellman, Derek Klassen. Game of the week between the Seahawks and the Chiefs hit one thing from four other games. Went under the hood with the Bucs offense. A lot of good stuff on this one. Let's dig into the week seven preview with me, Dave and Derek right now.

2:36Robert Mays: It's the week seven preview here on the athletic football show. We're going to hit five games at the top. That includes a game of the week treatment for Chiefs Seahawks. And that is what we're going to dig into first. Really don't need to set this one up, right? We have the Super Bowl champions going against the team of the decade that's currently undefeated. Is that juicy enough for you? I love the game of the week.

2:58Derrik Klassen: I love an old AFC West rematch too. Like, you know, the kids don't know this was a division rivalry at one point in time.

3:04Robert Mays: We did not point this out in real time last week because we were distracted by a lot of other things about the game. We did not mention the fact that Seahawks Broncos, the beauty of the uniform matchup. Fantastic. Oh, it's a perfect matchup. Why are we doing this all the time? We just need to be doing way more of this. And the Chiefs uniforms don't need any. We don't need throwbacks for the Chiefs. Like the Chiefs are very classic. But imagine that blue against this Chiefs red and just thinking about old school AFC West days. We need more of that.

3:29Derrik Klassen: It would pop. But yes, this is very little explanation needed. I really don't even care that the Seahawks record is probably not as good as you would have guessed going into this. This is still a very talented team. and narratively the Super Bowl MVP going back to Seattle leading the league in rushing looking like a freaking superstar Kenneth Walker sitting on 665 rushing yards he's he's got more than Bijan and James Cook playing one less game I get just an absolutely absurd start to the season and of course not only is it his old team the one that didn't want to pay him in free agency Seattle Seahawks have not allowed a 100-yard rusher since October 27th of 2024.

4:14Derrik Klassen: And so what gives? A very classic what gives game, the Chiefs running game or the Seahawks defense?

4:21Robert Mays: Let's start with the narrative part of that. I'm curious where you guys land on what the conversation has looked like around all of this this week, because understandably, you have a Chiefs running game that looks incredible and has truly transformed what the Chiefs offense feels like. We'll figure out quality over a 17 game span. But when you look at approach, the Chiefs lead the NFL in run action percentage, which is a next gen stack combining play action rate and run rate. They're number one in the league. They were 28th last year. Like it is truly the single biggest seismic shift schematically of any unit in the NFL, arguably from last season to this one.

5:00Robert Mays: And Kenneth Walker has driven a huge part of that and it's working. And then you look at what Seattle is right now and their inability to run the ball and having that be the starting point for everything else kind of falling into place within this offense, I think you could make a really solid argument. That's why it's felt so uneven when we've seen Sam, since we've seen Sam Donald get back. And so, Derek, are you in a place where you're looking at the sliding doors moment of the Chiefs or the Seahawks just allowing Kenneth Walker to leave as a mistake? Is it just something that is the cost of doing business?

5:33Robert Mays: You can understand it at the moment because there's been a lot of, I can't believe Seahawks chose Rashid Shahid over Kenneth Walker type takes this week, which it's obviously more complicated than that. But I'm just wondering where you guys land with this.

5:43Dave Helman: I mean, it does feel like and we talked about this in the moment, like with the draft, when you let somebody like Kenneth Walker go, knowing that your other running back, Zach Charbonnet, was coming into the season injured, you kind of like pin yourself in terms of what you can do with the 32nd pick. And there were a lot of good players that went after that pick that I think that would have been more helpful for the offense. And I think the other thing, too, the Seahawks offense last year really was the tale of two offenses. For the first half of the season, teams thought it's a Kubiak offense.

6:12Dave Helman: They're going to run outside zone. Let's load the box and really make them do that way. And then it turns out JSN is the best receiver in football. And so we're going to start playing defense a little bit differently. Well, now defenses can play them a little bit like that. They can play the cloud stuff, keep JSN as much of a cover on it as they can. but the Seahawks can't punish teams in the run game the way that they were down the stretch with Walker especially in the playoff run and so I think you're just seeing that spiral into a lot more of Sam Darnold has to take on more of the burden as a quarterback and even if you can thread a needle for what the Sam Darnold offense can be it will never be that and so they really should have I think thought about what it was going to mean for the offense if they lost the run game Obviously, they got unlucky with the Price injury, but still.

6:55That's where I land is they were supposed to have Jadari and Price and they don't.

7:00Derrik Klassen: And you could argue knowing Charbonnet wasn't going to be available. Maybe you do a little bit more than Emmanuel Wilson and George Helani to ensure yourself at that position. But Charbonnet, there weren't really a lot of guys available.

7:12Robert Mays: It was such a weird year. There weren't many free agent running backs. It was really just like Tyler Algier. And then there were no guys available in the draft. and maybe that should inform your thinking right one of the best ones i it's six games right like the idea of well they made a mistake by not doing this kenneth walker is an 18 million dollar cap next year kenneth walker is going to touch the ball like 400 times this year there is a chance that that is not a long-term sound investment by the chiefs it may be he looks incredible but we can't you can't make declarations about this stuff six games into the year if if the

7:45Derrik Klassen: if if the seahawks hadn't played the stupidest game in the world against washington and they

7:49Robert Mays: were four and two and then the second stupidest game in the world after they played the broncos

7:53Derrik Klassen: i really feel like the the magnifying glass is going to be on them because they're the defending champions and the guy they let walk is incredible and that i mean that sucks for them but i'm really not worried about the seahawks at all charbonnet is due back for this game price will be back at some point and i think this is going to stabilize and be fine and more than anything and i know

8:15Robert Mays: I think I'm a little bit more hesitant about it than that. I don't know if stabilize and be fine is where I would go. I'm not really worried yet because I do think that the lack of a run game is fueling a lot of this. But the idea that it'll be fine, I'm not sure I'm quite there yet.

8:31Derrik Klassen: That is the benefit of winning the Super Bowl. It'll probably be fine. Like, I need way more to be worried about it. And, like, I know Abe Lucas got torched against Denver on Thursday night. And, yeah, like, it's not all pretty. And what I was going to say is I wish I was getting more than two catches per game from Rashid Shahid. That's the tough part of this. It is tough.

8:52Robert Mays: And it's more complicated than they chose one over the other. But if you just stack up two potential timelines for the Seahawks, they could right now. And I know it's not as simple as this, but just like let's play here. You could right now, if you were Seattle, for the same money essentially that you gave to Rashid Shahid, you could have Kenneth Walker and Denzel Boston instead of Jadari and Price and Rashid Shahid. Oof, that hurts. I mean, that could have happened. You can't bank on that.

9:16Derrik Klassen: You can play that game with them. Maybe they pick a different receiver. You absolutely can.

9:20Robert Mays: But I'm just saying, like, if you look at the doors and the choices and what they could have done and the alternatives, like, I can understand being a Seahawks fan and being a little bit frustrated, even if we shouldn't be making declarative statements about this stuff after six games.

9:33Derrik Klassen: But we don't even know what their preferred build looks like. Like, we barely got Price, and we didn't see him with Charbonnet. and they're not going to be the best offense in the league, but I just, I think this will be fine. And you're probably right. Fine is open to interpretation. Like, are they going to look as great as they did in the first half of last year?

9:52Robert Mays: To me, it's good enough to win the Super Bowl. Do you clear the bar where your offense is good enough for you to win the Super Bowl? And I think that to me is the most compelling argument on the other side of this, is that, yeah, in terms of optimization, and again, they don't value running back that way. They would, if they had even offered Walker the same deal as the Chiefs did, He probably would have taken the Chiefs deal based on, you know, stuff that Michael Sean Dugar said to me and on this show. So it's more complicated than all of that. But I think that's the thing that's hard here. Knowing you're in a championship window and knowing what Walker would have given you, you could have afforded to keep him.

10:25Robert Mays: And does that just give you peace of mind and certainty about what the offense looks in the short term when in the short term you are a Super Bowl contender? I think that's like that's the pushback I'd give to the overall big picture machinations that are happening here.

10:39Dave Helman: And I will say, I think Kenneth Walker landed in the perfect spot to make them look dumb. Because we said this going into it, like I loved what this fit could have been for the Kansas City offense. And I think we've seen all the cascade effect. I mean, just what you talked about with the run action, them going from that not really being part of the offense. And now they are leading the NFL in it because they can be explosive, because teams are scared of what they're going to do with Kenneth Walker. this really was like the perfect situation for them to make as look make them look as dumb as

11:08Derrik Klassen: possible for having let him walk i just they have they have a late buy it's their buy is week 11 let me hang out until then and see what this looks like if charbonnet is coming back this week and i anticipate price won't be gone too much longer than he has been already i'm just i'm not ready to panic and it's a it's a valid point that they're in a super bowl window so you can't just hand wave starting three and three, but it's a long season. It's a juicy topic.

11:34Robert Mays: It's the only reason. I just think it's a worthwhile conversation, even if I'm not even close to being where some people are in hammering them for doing it the way that they did it. Why I think that for this game specifically, whether Seattle can slow him down is important, is that it potentially pushes the Chiefs into a version of the offense where you're really having to rely on the drop back passing game. And we talked about it. I mean, this is a team that's used a ton of play action this year. and Derek it was funny when I was going back and watching the Chiefs over the last couple games to prepare for this conversation and you watch all the elements of the offense where they're under center play action in a way that they never were before but at the same time there's still a ton of RPO they're letting the quarterback really do a lot of operating from the shotgun because he's Patrick Mahomes and you look at the combination of all of it and where I landed I was like oh yeah this is actually kind of similar to the conversation we've been having about the Panthers all season, how the Panthers offense is this weird mishmash of shit when it actually in reality, the Chiefs are kind of doing the same thing.

12:35Robert Mays: And so it's that was it was just funny because we when we've talked about the Panthers, it's like they kind of seem like this weird thing that's hanging out over here that no one else plays like this. But the Chiefs kind of play like this, even if the ratios are slightly different.

12:46Dave Helman: I think in terms of like some of the output rights are a little bit different, like Carolina gets their explosives because they have two skyscraper receivers and the quarterback is pushing the ball and the Chiefs were pushing the ball before Taekwondo Thornton went down, but maybe won't be able to now. Whereas the Chiefs, their explosives are in the run game. Panthers, it's really not. But in terms of like, if you're just looking at formationally, some of the RPOs that they're throwing, the areas of the field that they're trying to attack, what they're letting the quarterback do, it's not that different in terms of the construction of it all, which is, again, it is funny that we were like, the Panthers are such this grab bag.

13:17Dave Helman: And I do think it's cool that the Chiefs have arrived here because the Chiefs have been a team for a while where it's like, I think they've wanted to be under center and like they've definitely toyed with it on and off for seasons but this is the first time in a while they've had a running back where it's like oh defenses are actually scared of us being in looks like this because of what he can do just as a starting point for some of the

13:38Robert Mays: numbers in this conversation the seahawks are allowing five yards per attempt and negative 0.35 epa per drop back against under center play action drop backs this year per next gen like it's just been a non-starter it makes sense right like just think about the areas of the field you're trying to attack, like the movement that you're trying to get from second and third level defenders, the Seahawks are content to just say like, we can slow play the run up front because we got glass eating dudes. Like you're not going to hurt us this way. And so if they, if the chiefs struggle to run the ball efficiently, if the under center play action game is not something you can lean on against this team, what does the approach on offense look like?

14:14Robert Mays: And if you watch the chiefs and just the way the Mahomes is willing to operate a lot of the under center stuff this year, especially against man coverage, because that's been a concern for the Chiefs for a while. It's a lot of crossers, right? Like we're going to have our guys running away from people horizontally. It's a lot of things underneath. And it's a combination of that and stretching horizontally with some of the motions. And we've seen if you can create those windows, those windows can exist against the Seahawks. You can create them within five yards of the line of scrimmage and within the first half a second of the play.

14:48Robert Mays: Which quarterback in the league is better equipped to attack exactly those things than Patrick Mahomes. And especially the way that Patrick Mahomes is currently playing the Seahawks this year, 87 % completion rate on throws between zero and five air yards. That's by design, right? Like that's how they want to play. You just have to be willing to one, not get bored with it and to be really quick, accurate and decisive in how you're attacking it. And that's exactly what you get out of Patrick Mahomes. So most games, I'm not really interested in what's happening in that zero to five yard range. Like, I don't really care.

15:24Robert Mays: In this game, I think it's probably the most important area of the entire field.

15:28Dave Helman: It's very rare that the like the note, they call it the no cover zone, especially for defenses like this. We're like, yeah, the point is that we're going to let you throw it. But I do think part of the beauty of Patrick Mahomes over the last few years is he's fine being bored and the offense is fine being bored because eventually they will get into a couple of scenarios where they can do that. And like, to me, it's not even just that Andy Reid and the offense and the quarterback are really good at attacking one to five. I think Patrick Mahomes is also good at getting the ball to the back when he needs to.

15:54Dave Helman: And that is something that Seattle doesn't really handle all that well. And Seattle can be up and down if the quarterback can run around a little bit and scramble. And Patrick Mahomes, when he's at his best, is as dangerous as anybody at that outside of like maybe Josh Allen. And so even if there are you look at the Chiefs receiving core and what Seattle can do down the field, defending down the field, you're like, man, I don't know if this is a good match. But they kind of are Mahomes and the Chiefs are like the perfect quarterback and team right now to be like, we will win this game eight yards at a time.

16:24Derrik Klassen: There is there is another element to that that I think is really interesting, though, and it's just the Chiefs receivers executing, you know, like, I mean, get up. If you're open, that's great. I cannot help but think about the San Francisco game that we just watched where Mike Evans made so many clutch plays for the 49ers in that game. He also got mauled doing it.

16:47Robert Mays: So it's funny because I think that when I was looking at the Chiefs' receiver injuries and I thought, all right, what do they need in the long term to get this thing over the hump and be like really viable by the end of the season? My first thought was they need somebody that can replace what Taequann Thornton's skill set is because he'd been so important in them generating explosives. In this game, I think to me it's a, do you have somebody that can be an option in the intermediate middle of the field? on exactly the types of things you're talking about. Because even when Rice comes back, that's not his game.

17:20Robert Mays: And so I still feel like they could use one more guy that is just viable in those areas. Like Mahomes rips that seam ball to Cyrus Allen against the Chargers, which is a ridiculous throw. You can't, these guys can do it. I just wonder, is there a better option for right now on those sorts of routes? Because if it's not Cyrus Allen, who is it? because it's not Xavier Worthy or Rasheed Rice, in my opinion.

17:45Dave Helman: We keep saying the Niners should trade back for Juwan Jennings. I don't think if he gets traded, I don't think that this is like a bad Juwan Jennings team. They do not have like an option like that. I think that that could kind of work.

17:57Derrik Klassen: I worry about that for this game where, I mean, it's totally fair. Xavier Worthy is a great example, which I thought Xavier Worthy had a nice game doing real receiver stuff against the Chargers for the most part. but Seattle's going to make that really, really difficult. And it's going to be like a physical afternoon. How do you hold up doing that?

18:17Robert Mays: I think the last point, just about the way that the chiefs have been approaching this because of the, the guys can't really get off of man coverage on third down. It's not what they are. They've used a lot of motion on third down and they've been very good at that. And so getting guys in stacks and bunches off of motion, getting guys on the move, creating strain against zone defenses by doing that. Like Worthy should either, if it's third and seven, he should be running a crosser. He should be doing one of those insert motions on the move and running a deep crosser off of that in order to create strain.

18:49Robert Mays: Or he did this against the Raiders of the chart. I think it was the Raiders where it's third down. He starts running that shallow that he's run a dozen times this year and he snaps it back off against the corner for a 12 yard completion. That's it. That should be the menu. Whether that's enough in combination with everything else in the long term, that still is the question I have about the Chiefs. And I think exactly what you're bringing up in this game specifically, think about the offenses that have hurt the Seahawks over the last couple years and what they're willing to do and what they're willing to access or can access.

19:19Robert Mays: It's Stafford just throwing the ball, guys, by Ernest Jones's ear in some of these just really small windows against zone coverage. Is the Cyrus Allen, what's his first name? Andrew Armstrong. Andrew Armstrong combination. Is that enough for you to attack those areas in this game? Jalen Royals do anything for you? Probably not. That collection, we probably need an upgrade again, even when Rasheed Rice gets back.

19:43Derrik Klassen: It sounds weird because I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome of this game. And it's nothing personal against Kenneth Walker, but I kind of hope Seattle can hold them in check because I just... Just as an experiment. I want to see what this Chiefs offense looks like if they're not getting 150 rushing yards.

20:00Robert Mays: And I know all my fantasy teams don't care to see that outcome or don't care to explore that reality, but I get why you're interested.

20:06Derrik Klassen: And I know that the Dolphins technically did that. This is clearly a different beast than Miami. I don't know. I know. Groundbreaking analysis.

20:13Robert Mays: Seahawks, Dolphins, I think similar in terms of overall defensive quality. Totally. Derek, what is the one thing you're watching in this game? You alluded to it a little bit before some of the JSN stuff, but let's talk a little bit more about that. What is the number one thing you are keeping an eye on with this one?

20:30Dave Helman: I just kind of want to see what Steve Spagnuolo's plan is for JSN. And it's kind of convenient that earlier this year they played the Raiders and Clint Kubiak and Brock Bowers, who they've kind of used him as similarly as you can to a wide receiver like JSN. And so I came into this being like, OK, are the Chiefs maybe going to have Montserrat, Elaine or Noel Williams follow? Are they going to play a bunch of cloud coverage, which teams have been just spamming against the Seahawks this year, obviously? Are they going to pressure Sam Darnold? And I think they have been a team. Steve Spagnuolo in the past has run a lot of cloud coverages.

21:02Dave Helman: They're really not doing it this year because I think they want to be a little bit more of a press sort of team. And so they have not been doing that.

21:07Robert Mays: We're back to FU Chiefs.

21:08Dave Helman: Yes, we are. And I do think that they will probably try to press JSN and like disrupt the timing and stuff of it. I don't think that will work as well as Bowers. But because Bowers, Bowers can separate later in the down against press. But you're going to get hands on him at the line of scrimmage. I do think JSN is a little bit trickier to get hands on early in the route.

21:26Robert Mays: That's one of the best things he does is that ability to get off of contact, the line of scrimmage, the superpower of his.

21:31Dave Helman: And so I just I wonder how much, you know, of the press man, press quarter stuff they really want to try. The big difference, I do think, between what they were doing against the Raiders and what I think they might do in this game against the Raiders. They really did not blitz or pressure the quarterback, because I think the way that Kirk Cousins is seeing it right now, the way that the Raiders operate their passing game where it's four and five out all the time, the spacing is beautiful. They're just a good, we can beat the Blitz team right now. Sam Darnold and the Seahawks are not. Like Sam, I think is struggling to see it right now.

22:00Dave Helman: Their pass protection is not great. This to me feels like a, we handle JSN by getting to the quarterback sort of game. And so just how they do that, I think I'm really interested in.

22:10Robert Mays: Darnold dead last right now in EPA per drop back when pressured per next gen. And it is, he's in like a league of his own when you look at the numbers currently. And we alluded to it a little bit in the Walker conversation, but when you look structurally what defenses are doing to the Seahawks this year compared to last year. They are 31st in the NFL this year in the percentages of single high coverages that they're seeing per next-gen stats. It's 39%. It was over 50 last year. It's a 10 percentage point drop, and a lot of those percentage points have been put into like cover six and cloud coverages.

22:40Robert Mays: And so the way that teams are able to approach them is just different. And so you're asking a lot of the quarterback and just putting so much more on him. I think you feel the entire offense just kind of the weight of it. I think you feel that strain, and that's what you've gotten from the Seahawks offense in this passing game specifically for most of the season.

22:58Derrik Klassen: And it's not likely to get better this week. Just even with Charbonnet coming back, I mean, you know who's, depending on who you ask, some of the stat services are different, but depending on who you ask, the Chiefs have a better rushing success rate and rush defense than the Seahawks. Like Minnesota leads the pack in almost everything, but Kansas City's run defense has been fantastic this year. And so it's awesome that Charbonnet is back. Is that going to make the difference you need it to right out the gate? I don't know.

23:27Robert Mays: The word I was looking for was concertinaed. When something folds in on itself. I don't even know.

23:33Derrik Klassen: I don't even. That's a lot, even for Tafts.

23:37Robert Mays: Do you know where I get that term from? This is the most embarrassing part of this. It's used a lot on the Great British Baking Show. When the cake starts to squeeze underneath the weight. That's not embarrassing. My wife's going to be mad at me for not knowing that word. All right, before we move on, let's take our first quick break. The NBA season is here. When you turn on the games, turn on The Athletic Live on YouTube. Become part of the show in the interactive chat along with hosts Zach Harper, Kofi Oboa, and the Athletic Slam Dunk NBA staff. The Athletic Live is presented by Google Gemini.

24:05Robert Mays: Check it out now and subscribe on YouTube. Football season has arrived, and with the U.S. Bank's Smartly Visa signature card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase, including at the stadium or at home watching on a brand new TV. Score big with unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase. Visit usbank.com slash smartlycard to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions may apply. 500 orders a month was manageable.

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25:28Robert Mays: All right, let's get to our next game here. One thing from the Packers and Lions. Derek, this is you, buddy. The one thing you are watching in Packers-Lions is what?

25:38Dave Helman: this Packers defense is playing really well right now the coverage is good the menu is good their pressure stuff is good can still move them around in the run game pretty handily and I think the teams that like when they really want to get four hands on people some of the gap stuff you can move these D tackles even if they're kind of explosive the Lions run game is back baby like they are back to and this is even without their starting center which we can talk about because Cade Mays is set to potentially return this week uh that I think could be huge for them because I think to when you look at what the Lions do best in the run game, their zone stuff is fine, but I think some of the communication has been up and down.

26:12Dave Helman: Tate Rattledge is a, he always plays heavy on the combo, so sometimes he doesn't climb to the second level as quickly as you would like, but when they get into their gap stuff and you can just have these guards wash people down and Panay Sewell is down blocking so that Rattledge can come around the side and just like kick out the end, it's really, really impressive. And this to me feels like a game that But for a Packers run defense that I think is gettable in that realm, this feels like if the Lions can pop three, four explosive runs, they're just going to take control of this game and keep them out of those pure pass scenarios that have hurt the Lions a little bit this season and are some of the best stuff that the Packers do right now.

26:50Dave Helman: So this to me just feels like we've gotten the Lions run game back to where it needs to be. Can you really go and control a game against a team and a defense that is like back into being one of the better units in the NFL?

27:01Robert Mays: The offensive line settling for Detroit is just so important. And there was a moment early in the season we talked about this. They were banged up, right? You had backups in there, and so that was part of it. But there was at least, I mean, that Buffalo game was it, where it's like, man, are we going to have to do this again? Where you're just trying to find yourself over the course of the season up front. The guards, it's still up and down. They're young players, and they're both, their play style, I think, lends to a little bit of volatility, both of them. They're kill shot players. Yes, and that's okay with me.

27:29Robert Mays: Like I'm fine with kill shot players. And I think the Lions obviously already had their buy. And so there's a little bit of a reset about what we're doing well, what we want to do more of. And I think I wouldn't be surprised if they leaned into truly just being more of an outside zone team after dabbling in some other things that maybe passing is a little bit more fluent in over the first month of the season and why I think it makes sense to do that. Not only is that your comfort zone of who you've been as a team for the last few years, part of the reason I think some of that stuff didn't look great is Scruggs maybe not being as fluent in some of the mental processing parts of that we're like we're getting into the right runs we're getting the points right all of that I think there's a chance Mays even in after missing time and being new to the scheme is better in that area and so if you can get on the same page a little bit more often and you're still bringing like the ass kicking element that the rest of the offensive line is I think there's a chance we haven't even seen the best version of this thing as we get a little bit deeper into the season.

28:28Derrik Klassen: This was one of the most exciting free agency pickups of the offseason, in my opinion. And it's easy to put it on the back burner because Mays got hurt during training camp.

28:36Robert Mays: And because it hasn't been a glaring, glaring issue. I think that's also part of it. The Scrubs trade is like, it's kind of, we haven't really talked about it in the moment because there's kind of a throw in. It's a really good job by Brad Holmes to get a usable offensive lineman in that deal.

28:50Derrik Klassen: I remember talking about it over the summer and being like, Brad Holmes decided never again. Like, we're not doing this again. Good for him, man. He was right. But for it to be as good as it's been without him and now to plug him in, I mean, that's so exciting to think about. Hopefully it looks half as good as I've been imagining.

29:07Robert Mays: Derek, why do you think the Packers' run defense was so good against the Bears, but overall has relatively struggled? I'm pretty sure they're like 28th in run defense DVOA.

29:15Dave Helman: They are very low. I think a large part of that is this was just one of those things where backup quarterback is in for the second week. We kind of know what we're seeing. we do not respect the passing game and we can just be a little bit heavier like we can we can kind of just get after the run game and not have to worry so much about making sure that we're going to be there for the pass and so i just i will say too i do think their linebackers are starting to play a little bit better as the year is going on like zaire franklin i think is dave and i were actually texting about this like i totally agree he's really settling in dire franklin

29:46Derrik Klassen: was whipping ass against somebody i'm i'm drawing a blank on which game might have been that bears

29:51Dave Helman: game because like he was really good in that he's played well he was a maniac against the bears and

29:57Robert Mays: that's another one where credit to brian kunkus for to get him for colby wooden and then colby wouldn't gets cut by the colts so you essentially got him for free more or less and he's been a good player for you you felt that last two more points on packers lions one sounds like brian branch is going to be back uh kelvin shepherd came out this week and said it's going to be a feel thing in terms of how much he's going to play but the reinforcements are coming for this lions team in important areas and which brings me to an on-the-spot question i'm going to ask both of you guys both of these teams do you think these teams are like real contenders in the nfc but can you see a path for either for both of these teams by the time we get to like december 15th it's like oh yeah that could that team could win the nfc i'm biased because i picked

30:46Derrik Klassen: the Lions to have a great season. Like I picked the Lions to, I think I picked them to get to the Super Bowl. And a lot of it was the schedule, but the infrastructure here, particularly on offense, like it's easy to get excited about the offensive line, the quarterback, the skill players. And we don't have to rehash offseason conversations, but if the defense can just not be on fire, then this could be a pretty good team. And they have not lived up to that to this point in the season. Brian Branch coming back, I'm not going to get too optimistic. I'm worried the defense could be bad enough to sink them, but it's easier for me to talk myself into this offense being like the best in the league and driving everything.

31:29Derrik Klassen: Whereas do the Packers have the gear to reach that level consistently? Like can, even if you have some insane games like the bears game and they had moments against the Cowboys that would have looked better if they hadn't dropped some touchdowns, but like can the offensive line in the running game be good enough for it to get to that level? That's the other part of this.

31:47Robert Mays: Josh Jacobs is back now. And so you would assume that the run game is maybe just a little bit more consistent for the Packers. And I think why I bring up the Packers in that conversation is that it does feel like there's a vacuum of like second and third tier teams that really do have a shot. And if you're one of those teams where the quarterback is playing really well, and in the Packers case, they've cobbled together the defense enough. Like, I don't know. I just feel like each of these teams where two weeks ago we were asking some really big existential questions about them for both of them i'm kind of like i don't know man they might just be good like they might just win the division and be an 11 win team and be really scary by the time we get to the end of the season both of them

32:29Derrik Klassen: even knowing how much we all like the 49ers and what a wagon they look like what what else in the nfc is making you feel like it's not your year you know and and the niners are like i feel like

32:43Dave Helman: there's a half dozen teams yes there's other than the Niners there's like a half dozen teams that if you told me they met the Niners in the NFC championship I'd be like I mean like why not them

32:52Derrik Klassen: and I do think the Packers and Lions are them famous last words I think so highly of the Niners I'm not trying to shit on them but like they don't impress me the way that some other like great teams have impressed me oh I don't know about that I think the only I would I think if

33:08Robert Mays: mike was healthy i would i would say that's my concern that's my concern that's a very real point it's not about that's a fair yeah my i think that my my pushback to that would be what they've looked like is that sort of team whether they can sustain being that sort of team because of all the injuries that's an entirely different question but what they've looked like but it's just period so far i mean that it's the same kind of deal with well the packers have cobbled this together the Niners defense has looked so so good on top of what the offense is giving you if I've if you told me right now that Mike Evans would be the version of Mike Evans in the Super Bowl that we have watched so far and everything else about the Niners would stay the same I think I would say they are like a truly special team but now we're down to like

33:55Derrik Klassen: wide receiver six in 20 that's concerning to me in 2023 i remember feeling like what are we even playing the games for like the niners and the lions that year were obviously really good too but and it's not to say this team isn't great but i don't see the niners if i'm if i'm the lions or the packers i don't see the niners and i'm like i don't know how we're gonna beat that like i would be like yeah i'll take my chances that we can get this done i think that's all teams i mean it's no No one's like that good.

34:25Robert Mays: But I think some years just feel more overwhelming to me than others, I guess. I don't even remember. I don't know the last time I felt like that. But I think that right now, if you could tell me they're going to stay healthy, I think the Niners are that quality of team. They've been so, so good so far this year. But whether they can, I think, is a very real question. The durability is baked into it, unfortunately. It just is. Let's get to our next one here. Bengals at Ravens. Dave, this is you, buddy. The one thing you were watching in Bengals-Ravens is what?

34:53Derrik Klassen: It's worth saying Lamar Jackson is back at practice as of Thursday. And so that is, thank God, very much something to watch and makes this game so much juicier. But we prepped these shows on Tuesday. And so you're ahead of it more than I am. I prep these shows on Tuesday. So, of course, I'm watching Lamar Jackson, but I'm really curious about what the post by bingles look like. And that is, it's such a hot topic of conversation because everybody wants to know which way they're trending. And the under center stuff has been a hot topic of conversation. They ticked all the way down to like 17 % under center snaps in week four.

35:34Derrik Klassen: And they were at about 20 % in their last game against Miami. And what does that mean for the rest of the season going forward? because we spent so much time and energy talking about how big of a piece of the offense is this going to be? Are they going to scrap it at the bye week when they self-scout? And what's the reality of that? And how does this team want to play? Because when you have a week six bye, it's just a hilariously small sample size to try to figure out what they actually want to do. And Jamar Chase missed a big chunk of the Jacksonville game. Both of their receivers were on the injury report against Miami.

36:14Derrik Klassen: T and Jamar played against the Dolphins, but still dealing with injuries to both of those guys. Their tight end usage ticked way, way up against the Dolphins. They were running a ton of 12 personnel. So what is this exactly? Was the under center stuff all talk? Are they going to scale it down a little bit? Are they going to lean into more elements of it? I really don't know. And I feel like now we start to answer this question of what the Bengals offense is going to look like.

36:41Robert Mays: My gut feeling is that what we saw in the Dolphins game is indicative of what it might look like moving forward. And I think it's for this reason. The entire point of going to a more under center play action place, I think it's a couple different things. One, that's where a lot of the easy buttons for NFL offenses are, right? It just makes things easier. Well, it doesn't make things easier for them. And so you're not good at it. It's yeah, like if you're not going to, If it's not going to make things easier, then that's one strike against it. The other part of it is it was supposed to make them more explosive in the passing game.

37:16Robert Mays: That hasn't happened. The only real completions they're getting off of that stuff are it's a slide route to Eric Hall. We're spitting the ball in the flat to Tanner Hudson. It's easy completions. Those are plays worth seeking out, but those just become like little things you're tacking onto the side. It feels like coming into the year, they wanted the under center stuff to be a central part of the overall offensive identity and approach. Now, it seems like we're going to get closer to a place where you have to do enough under center passing to protect your under center run game, because that's where there might actually be benefits.

37:51Robert Mays: And so it then just becomes a tendency breaker set of considerations rather than this is a pillar of what we are offensively. And I think we're probably trending in that direction.

38:01Derrik Klassen: I hope they can navigate that because they do feel predictable to me. Like they happen. Yeah. The splits are, the splits aren't great. They get under center to run. And even when they do play action, they're averaging like four play action snaps of a game. And that might be enough.

38:20Robert Mays: I hope so. That might, that might be enough. If you're doing it four times a game, I think it's about getting from a place where it's 80, 20 to closer to like 65 35 and and is that enough to make sure that if you and if you look at stuff that this is a weird comparison but there are like the bears are all i look at the bears with this stuff because they are maniacal about tendency breaking type stuff the bears run the ball out of the shotgun 35 of the time if you do one out of every three times in some of these situational things is that enough to protect yourself and i think that is probably the mindset set that the Bengals have to adopt when it comes to the under center stuff.

38:58Derrik Klassen: We talked about this in the production meeting and I looked it up. Per true media, you know how many under center snaps with no play action the Bengals have run? Zero. None. Yeah. That is the compromise to me.

39:10Dave Helman: Do you think that the quarterback is willing to do it? Because I've, I've, I don't know. I've put, because I've posed the issues before, like when we've talked about the play, the play action under center stuff. And this was even true of Burrow in college, by the way, in his, the year before he broke out it was more of an under center offense and he didn't look like a superstar first overall pick but in the NFL whenever they've tried to do it my initial thought was like he doesn't like to turn his back and throw the middle of the field stuff and I think when you watch them right now when they do the deep drop back under center stuff he is immediately like balls out to the check down like that's just what he does I there's part of me now that wonders if it is also a timing issue because like just like the footwork of timing in the gun versus under center concepts are just different and how you're cycling through stuff is just different like it's when you're in the shotgun you can shortcut and you can get to stuff quicker when you want to your base is also

40:02Robert Mays: underneath you all the time in a way that it's not when you're sprinting back from under center

40:06Derrik Klassen: yeah you're not ready until like two seconds into the play he loves to stand back there with his

40:11Robert Mays: feet planted and just watch him watch how little movement there is in his lower body when he's playing the position from the gun it's very like dead leggy and i think that's one of the things that allows him to always be ready to throw, to be hyper-accurate. And if you're pushing him outside of that, you're taking away some of the stuff that makes him good. But I still think it's a compromise worth exploring because you're allowing him to keep his eyes on the defense, but you're still protecting some of those under center runs. Whether we see more of it, who knows? And maybe it goes poorly the same way the under center play action shit has.

40:41Robert Mays: But I think it's at least an area you could potentially try to mine to accomplish what we're talking about.

40:49Derrik Klassen: The other thing I'm curious about, and this is kind of in the weeds. I mentioned predictability, and I don't know if there's a fix for it with their current personnel, and this goes back several years because Mike Gusecki is on this team, but their personnel is so predictable. Like, they have attempted six... They've attempted 28 runs when Mike Gusecki's on the field this year, and I think six of those came out of the gun. So, like, you have a tight end that's going to telegraph that you want to throw the ball. Eric all is in on 73 % of their rushing attempts. Like it's very, it's, it's just kind of predictable the way that they use these guys and the way they bring them in.

41:28Derrik Klassen: And, but that stuff you can check yourself on in the buy, right?

41:32Robert Mays: That's exactly the type of stuff you can hopefully check yourself on at the

41:35Derrik Klassen: buy. This is the perfect week to be talking about it. Cause I want to see what it looks like coming out of the buy. They, they, they are not explosive running the ball.

41:44Robert Mays: And, and that's why they want to be able to get under center and do it. And so the two other things I'd bring up as part of this conversation I think are worthwhile. One, one of the reasons that I think you might be willing to explore some of the undercentered play action stuff is to protect the offensive line, right? And take fewer sacks. Well, he's already taking fewer sacks. And so now you're in a spot where, well, we're already taking fewer sacks. Like, let me do this, you know? And then the other part of it is, like, the gun play action stuff, I think, can potentially be an area for them to tap into to be explosive.

42:20Robert Mays: That was the Jamar Chase touchdown against the Dolphins. Like, if the part of the reasoning and part of the motivation for the under center play action was to be explosive down the field, but you have enough gun half boot stuff that moves the launch point, and that allows you to push the ball, and you can find it somewhere, that's just one more reason to just say, you know what? This is how we live. This is who we are. And so I get it. Like, I think there's a fascinating tension here between trying to do all this stuff because you realize the benefits of it and understanding you're not getting those benefits.

42:52Robert Mays: So it's probably worth scrapping, but at least you tried. At least you're not gonna get to the end of this season and say, man, I wish we would have put more time on task with this in training camp to see if we could do it. Because the whole argument for how they approach camp and leaning into it as hard as they did was if we have to snap back into the other thing, we'll be fine. Well, guess what? They have been. It's fine. They can just do this. And so it wasn't wasted time. It wasn't a wasted effort. And I think that would be one of the things that would be hard to live with if this stuff wasn't working.

43:26Robert Mays: And when you went back to the other stuff, it also wasn't working. It is. And so now you can just retreat is maybe an unfair word. you can go back into the embrace of the world that you have been enjoying for a while here

43:39Derrik Klassen: if that's what happens and that's fine and i think it's worth saying the bingos will probably be fine but if if they just go back to what has worked i'm i don't want to talk about it anymore i don't want to spend next summer talking about how they might tweet yeah that's that's fine yeah that's yeah with the boy who cried under center yeah we'll just all right joe you're in the gun it's fine that'll work we don't have to talk about it derrick just specifically about this matchup

44:02Robert Mays: one thing about the Ravens defense against this version of the Bengals offense that interests you

44:08Dave Helman: I'm putting you on the spot I think that Joe Burrow this year when you've done some of the coverage switch stuff on him whether it's dropping people off of the line of scrimmage which obviously the Ravens will do a ton or some of the just funky get into too high pressure stuff I don't think Joe Burrow sees that like all that well and like will tend to take some of the easier options for that uh the Bucks got him with an interception this way they got him with a couple actually doing that sort of stuff. And so I think with as bizarre as some of the Ravens in the back end have been with some of that stuff, I actually do think that you could get a couple of plays that way.

44:43Dave Helman: Because I will say, the Ravens' defensive numbers this year are not spectacular. They're a mildly above average unit. But I think that that's only going to continue to get better because of how weird some of the stuff that they're doing. This just feels like by the time they get to December, I trust Jesse Minter. They have five players who are all pros at their best. like, I just think that they're going to continue to get better. And this to me feels like a game that I think they'll be pretty good.

45:07Robert Mays: A lot of funky cover two variations in defined pass situations. And the Browns got them on it last week. The Browns had the right calls in some of those moments to get them on it. One thing I do think is worth mentioning about this version of the Bengals offense, because we've talked about this with Burrow and like, are they accessing the middle of the field as often as some of these other teams are with the construction of everything right now? Okay. Intermediate play-action dropbacks this season in the hashes and seams, 10 to 19 air yards, Joe Burrow is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7th in the NFL in total dropback EPA on those plays.

45:46Robert Mays: And he's thrown 23 of those passes, which is in, like, the upper third of the league. And so they are, and with T. Higgins and his usage specifically, we're just seeing T. Higgins catch a lot more of those balls than anecdotally I remember him doing. And so there are enough additional layers to this and there are enough improvements elsewhere where that would be the frustrating question if you were a Bengals fan where it's like, why does this feel different? Why will this be different? I think the lack of sacks, the fact that they are willing to attack areas that feel that they weren't attacking as much of before.

46:19Robert Mays: And the last part of this that's worth mentioning is what the right tackle is.

46:25Dave Helman: Yeah, that dude's a monster. If you can just sit there and be like,

46:29Robert Mays: you're one-on-one with TJ Watt the whole game. Have fun. That's an avenue that this offense did not have previously. And so I do think there are enough things that maybe feel a little bit different that we don't have to get back into a place of it's the same old story with the same old dead ends. We'll see.

46:45Derrik Klassen: But I think you can tell yourself a story about it. It's gone under-discussed nationally that Amarius Mims has grown into what you hoped he might look like when he was drafted.

46:57Robert Mays: I mean, it's truly when you look at that man, this is what you dreamed of is for him developing into this sort of player. And it doesn't help that the left tackle is a guy you kind of got to worry about. But when you can spend resources to help that guy because you don't need to help the right tackle, it goes a long way.

47:14Derrik Klassen: We're getting off track here, but I was thinking about this. Somebody on social media said he was like the best right tackle in the league. And I'm I am not here to rank them right now, but I was just anecdotally thinking I was like, well, Lane Johnson retired a few weeks ago. and Panessa will move to left tackle. And Darnell Wright, I mean, yes, Darnell Wright is worth mentioning as well.

47:33Robert Mays: They're very, they're very different players. Like Darnell Wright, Darnell Wright is an absolute weapon in the run game. He is not the pass protector that Amaris Mims is right now. I don't think that's like a controversial thing to say. Darnell Wright's an all pro level player. They're just different types of players.

47:47Derrik Klassen: My goal is not to rank anybody, but I was just thinking about it. And I was like, holy shit. Like he's, he's probably higher up the list of right tackles than I would have guessed before I started thinking about it.

47:56Robert Mays: Darnell Ray got a holding call last week because he wiped a man off the face of the planet. So that is he's still capable of doing that. Before we move on, let's take one more quick break.

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50:40Robert Mays: next one here is me Niners at Falcons my one thing I'm looking for in this game is how do the Niners try to heat up Michael Penix because when you have this year it has not gone very well we mentioned the stat earlier where Sam Darnold is dead last in the NFL in EPA per drop back when pressured Michael Penix is down near the bottom the only guy's worse EPA per drop back when pressured this year than Michael Penix. Aaron Rodgers, Jalen Daniels, Cam Ward, Bo Nix, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold.

51:08Dave Helman: I mean, that's a lot of offenses that we've talked about. What is wrong with this quarterback or what is wrong with the offense? And like, this is kind of the thing with Michael Penix, because when they played that first game against the Packers, they really weren't getting to him. Like the ball was out really consistently. They were finding guys open. They were chucking it downfield. And you saw all of what the offense can be when he's not touched and they're calling the right plays and they're calling throws that really makes sense for him and i think we've seen over the last couple weeks the bears game specifically dennis allen was like we're gonna send seven and we're gonna dare you to throw over the top of somebody and he just isn't really flexible enough to do a lot of that stuff consistently it reminds me a little bit of uh on madmen where they where they had the jaguar account

51:52Robert Mays: and jaguars are just these like really when they're working they're humming they're like beautiful cars but they break down all the time like they always have like something wrong with them so michael penix is like when when everything's right that thing is purring baby and then but there's every like week it seems like if you do one thing to it the car is breaking down

52:11Derrik Klassen: everything's not right as often as i would prefer for what i invested in both a jaguar and a top

52:17Robert Mays: there's like a rock in the engine like every time you do something or like maybe a more apt metaphor is like it's a piece of dust in like a computer chip like some small thing can make this go awry in a way that is frustrating to me because when it's going well, I love watching the guy play. But we already know this. If you make him move off his spot, he is not a nimble player. I think you can make an argument that he's probably the stiffest starting quarterback in the league right now in terms of movement in the pocket. Even a guy like Jared Goff, who's not a great athlete, the subtle pocket movement that you get from Jared is actually very good at this point in his career.

52:54Robert Mays: Michael Penix can't do that. That was always the case. But he was able to mitigate it because even if the performance under pressure and the off schedule, even mild improvisation stuff wasn't there, he didn't take sacks. This year, he is taking sacks. And so now the negatives are coming from two directions when he gets pressured. And I think that's what's made it a little bit troubling. This year, he is the fourth highest pressure to sack rate in the league. over the last two years, it was 12.4%, which only Jordan Love was better among full-time starters. This year, it's 23%. And you feel that.

53:33Robert Mays: And I think that's driven a lot of those advanced numbers when he gets pressured is that those sacks are happening. Teams are, and teams know this, by the way, teams are blitzing him per next gen on 46.7 % of the Falcons dropbacks, 46.7. So he's more or less turning every defense he plays against into Brian Flores.

53:54Dave Helman: Yeah, and like, because again, teams just know.

53:55Robert Mays: Oh, you got to crank it up to be Brian Flores. Brian Flores is at like 65. Let's call it the midpoint between Brian Flores and Derate Jones. There you go.

54:03Dave Helman: Brian Flores before this year. Yeah, yeah. Brian Flores even himself has become something else. But yeah, and it's. He's become something else. He's involved in something we don't understand. He has become another Brian Flores. They've like stacked two on top of each other. uh the the penix thing is funny like the end of resident evil yes the the penix thing is like i think when more teams were doing blitzes where it wasn't as much mugging the front and we weren't generating as many free rushers and it was like we're gonna be in more static looks and you're just gonna replace a backer that's firing he's so good at seeing and throwing that but if you're putting seven or eight on the line of scrimmage and someone's gonna pop free and the idea is you have to throw hot over them he's just never really been somebody who's good at that and i think dennis allen kind of put a blueprint out this game's interesting because the niners don't do that a ton but i think they can like fred warner's been blitzing more this year upton stout like what kyler gordon just did upton stout can do that and so i just i hope they do the niners

55:05Robert Mays: can do this and that's my question about this game specifically if you guys want to hear like a longer conversation about the niners defense me and fran duffy earlier this week spent a chunk of that midweek show just talking about what is different about this defense and what we've gotten from Raheem Morris because it was a question we had in the offseason like what would this version of the Raheem Morris defense look like the biggest change has been the five-man front stuff that they're using that's also worth mentioning for this game like the fact that they're willing to get into some of that five down stuff against a very outside zone heavy team in the Falcons is worth paying attention to when they're in that five down stuff the Niners run defense is significantly better out of base than it is out of nickel.

55:42Robert Mays: And so I'm curious, do we see the Falcons maybe try to get in a lighter personnel to run the ball because of that? But the other tweak that we've seen with the defense overall is that they're willing to bring more pressure. They're up over a 30 % blitz rate there. They haven't been afraid to do that. Derek pointed it out with Warner from the start of the season. And so by looking at what Dennis Allen did and saying, Hey, we're going to try to tap into some of that stuff. You really don't have to play against type or outside of yourself that much to convince yourself in this game against this quarterback.

56:13Robert Mays: This is the right approach. Like, let's heat this guy up and see if he can take it. One more here. Rams Raiders, our last one. Derek, your one thing from Rams Raiders is what?

56:25Dave Helman: Yeah, this to me is, I mean, I feel like every time we talk about the Raiders, I want to talk about their offense because it's really cool. And so we'll do that a little bit.

56:32Robert Mays: Is Black Bowers your favorite player in the NFL right now? Oh man.

56:39Dave Helman: Probably not, but I think if I had to do a top five, he's in there. I think if I did a top five, he would be in there. I still think my favorites are like, I love Fred Warner, like Will Anderson Jr., some of those players. But like, he might be my favorite offensive player, actually. I'll say that. I was going to say, like, not counting linebackers and people who hurt other people for a living. Offensively, it's probably like him and Lamar Jackson. When those guys are on the field, it's just, I feel like I'm watching something special. So to that point, the Rams defense runs more dime than anybody in the NFL.

57:11Dave Helman: We knew that going in. That's been true for a couple of years now. And the Raiders offense, their passing offense specifically, has been pretty good against that. And they've seen a couple of teams who are willing to do that. The Chiefs do that a lot or can in certain scenarios. And the Bills have done that. And against those teams and all the other times they've seen it this year, they've been really good. They are third in EPA per drop back and 14th by success rate against those dime looks. And this is a Rams defense that it's supposed to be their identity that they're very good at that. And they've been kind of good at it, but not elite.

57:42Dave Helman: And I actually think in a matchup like this, where the idea when they go dime, they get a little bit bigger. They have these safeties who come onto the field. We can match up with your tight ends and stuff like that. I think Brock Bowers and Michael Mayer are kind of a different beast right now. Like not even just like true. Yeah. Like against Bowers, like he's faster and quicker than all of your safeties and guys who you're going to have against him. And he's going to go against the corners as well. But like, I think he can bully those guys. And I will say the one thing I'm curious about how the Rams put together their coverage menu just outside of the personnel.

58:15Dave Helman: A lot of teams the last couple of weeks, the Bills really did this and the Chiefs were doing this a little bit. They were playing so hard inside leverage on Bowers saying we are not going to give you the crosser for free.

58:27Robert Mays: He still gets that nasty blades out. That's the nasty blades out there last week. It's like a perfect complement to that.

58:33Dave Helman: And Kirk will throw it. Like Kirk is very this year, like if he thinks Bowers is on the out, he's going to rip it or anybody on the out. And so I just I really think that this is a matchup where the Rams dime defense has not been as good as they want this year. And so unless the pass rush really turns it up, I just have a lot of faith in what this Raiders passing offense can be. And this is will be a kind of unique test for them to go and prove that. Two thoughts regarding that.

58:57Derrik Klassen: Trent McDuffie not practicing as of Wednesday. I guess keep an eye on that as the week goes. and Kobe Turner was moved to injured reserve, as was Puna Ford, I mean, half the team.

59:08Robert Mays: So we have to talk about that because we have not really talked about the doomsday for the Rams came after we did the conversation on Sunday night. I can't remember where I was. It might've been on my way home from the hangover on Monday, Derek, where I got home, looked at my phone, and I got the notification, Devontae Adams out six to 10 weeks. And then I saw the video of McVay staring down the barrel of his Zoom camera. And he was like, yeah, Devontae Adams ruptured his hamstring. He's going to be out six to 10 weeks. Kobe Turner, we're moving him to IR. And Puna Ford ruptured his triceps. He's going to be out for the entire season.

59:45Robert Mays: And I think I literally said, what the f*** out loud as I like heard that. That's supposed to happen on Sundays. What the hell? He listed all that off and I was like, oh my God. and now we're at a place where we were on Sunday. I think all of us collectively are like, ah, this has been ugly, but are we really in, like, the sky is falling full-on panic mode? And now you're in a spot where your receiving core is decimated, and we'll talk about why it feels that way in a second. The defensive line was supposed to be one of the strengths of your roster. That has been completely wiped out for the most part, the depth you have there.

1:00:25Robert Mays: Miles Garrett still isn't playing. And now I'm at a place where this has gone from very disappointing, but they'll probably turn it around to, I don't know, man. Like I've got some very real questions about whether the current state of this roster is going to be able to pull them out of this nosedive.

1:00:44Derrik Klassen: I'd feel a hell of a lot better if I knew when Miles Garrett was going to be available, but I, I don't. And it'll now be, I mean, six, six weeks, six weeks that you haven't had miles Garrett to sort of help elevate everything else that's going wrong on defense and hopefully it's soon but with each passing week it bothers me a little bit more

1:01:04Robert Mays: the offense has already felt out of sorts and now you're in a place where Terrence Ferguson still isn't back you and we're so now our 11 personnel is going to be Puka, Kanata, Mumpfield, Tutu Atwell, Jordan Whittington like it I don't know man like I think I'm in a place where I'm genuinely really

1:01:24Dave Helman: worried about this I'm pretty freaked out as well and because this is not like here's I know that I was like the anti Ty Simpson guy and all that stuff but I said before they even picked the quarterback before they did that it was like if you are a Super Bowl team you should really be thinking about the depth at certain positions especially on offense when you think that you have a machine sort of offense because their tackles the the sneaky thing about the the rams their tackle play has not really been good at any point during them being like a really strong team they've just been able to stay out never invested in it exactly they had havenstein forever and then they

1:02:02Robert Mays: signed whitworth in free agency they've made they've spent no real draft picks at the position and forever they're they're the only nfl offense and certainly the only good one that has a tackle where one was a seventh round picker an undrafted free agent and the other was a fifth round pick

1:02:16Derrik Klassen: and it's pretty remarkable that that they get passable to good tackle play with what they've

1:02:21Robert Mays: spent on it but it's also part of like why they play a way to make it not matter and they haven't

1:02:26Dave Helman: been able to play that way this year it's it's one of those things where it teeters the fine line of like it's super impressive they can get away with it and then as soon as it becomes you can't get away with it you're like oh yeah their tackles aren't very good and so I think we're seeing it this year and I think if they had drafted whatever tackle you want to put I am not sure Freeling it doesn't really matter to me Lomu I don't really care if they had done that or drafted any of the receivers at 13 Makai Lemon Denzel Boston whatever it literally does not matter to me you would have solved issues that were obvious depth problems even before the season and so like honestly with the D-line stuff like that's unfortunate you did have D-line depth those guys have been really good that's whatever nobody said going into the season you needed more d line depth that's right we said before this stuff happened you should probably think about where we're at at tackle and receiver and now it's it's like season like catastrophe sort of levels for

1:03:26Robert Mays: them potentially you shouldn't be at a place where one receiver injury sends you to the phone and that i think that is not a very super bowl team the super bowl favorites should not be in

1:03:36Derrik Klassen: that spot which that's where i i did i differ with you derrick because ty simpson is the prince who was promised and his song will be the song of ice and fire we're not worried about that and if that pans out then you feel good about it i love how he's doing this this is very well done by you what bothers me is really okay buy the lottery ticket on the quarterback that's fine and i would even say warren mcclendon's been fine this year and alrick jackson lost his cool completely in addition to a host of other problems he's had he will be back though like he's the suspension is over tackle is not a five alarm fire to your point they feel screwed at receiver and they're they only had two okay they only had two they had two and a half with ferguson their second round pick is a weekly healthy scratch max claire good player he is a healthy scratch maybe well yeah I should have said good college player.

1:04:35Derrik Klassen: He was a good college player. He's a weekly healthy scratch for a team that had four tight ends going into the year. They had all they had everything they needed, even with Terrence Ferguson getting hurt. They still could have played 13 personnel with the guys that they had. And I laughed, Derek, because he's we're fans of his game. the next receiver off the board in the second round was Antonio Williams, who has had a nice season for a Washington team. That's been going through it, made a couple of really nice plays on Monday night football. He was a third round pick,

1:05:10Robert Mays: but he was the next receiver taken after.

1:05:11Derrik Klassen: He was like nine pigs leaders. Yeah. Yes. I just, if you want to, if you want to do the quarterback lottery ticket, that's fine. I have no problem saying that because I like Ty Simpson, But you can't have both of your first two picks not contributing to a team with Super Bowl aspirations.

1:05:29Robert Mays: I love this so much. This is the only man in America where, like, the Rams are Max Clare's fault.

1:05:33Derrik Klassen: It is. It's true. Leave time alone.

1:05:36Dave Helman: He's kind of right, though, because, like, Max Clare gets drafted, and he's immediately at best, like, tight end four. And it's like, even if you're going to use him a lot, that's kind of crazy. Whereas, and Dave, it's not even just Antonio Williams, because usually we do, like, who's just the next guy off the board. the other receivers right after that in the third round malachi fields caleb douglas has been decent for miami even if the numbers aren't crazy because that offense is whatever uh jacoby lane who i know he got hurt this offseason but like had been really good when he was playing ted hearse for the bucks has done some stuff like there were a lot of receivers they're all nfl players they are all like nfl players yes they are nfl players that are not just like this is one of those situations too.

1:06:17Dave Helman: I love what Jordan Whittington is for the offense when it's working and they have all their other players and he's a 12 snaps a game role player. Well, now if he's wide receiver too, I don't like Jordan Whittington so much. Whereas I think some of these other guys could have given you a little bit more.

1:06:31Derrik Klassen: You can galaxy brain a draft pick. Galaxy braining two major draft picks when your goal is to be in the Super Bowl is, I don't know if that's a great process. And that's not max claire's fault i'm i'm directing that at the rams brain trust more so than max claire this is a team that they have done this in the past and it has not always burned them

1:06:53Robert Mays: there is a level of like biblical greed and hubris to some of the things that they do that i almost appreciate the audacity of some of it every once in a while where it's like bring me miles garrett right fine cool great i appreciate that shoot your shot but this off season specifically there we flew very close to the sun i will say if you could give me a date

1:07:16Derrik Klassen: to circle for miles garrett's return it would do a lot to ease my anxiety about the rams like i'm

1:07:22Robert Mays: not putting x's every day on the way yes i would yes i would be crossing off the calendar like okay

1:07:26Derrik Klassen: it's miles day but that isn't happening and each passing week makes me more concerned and to the going back to the point we were making at the top of this Trent McDuffie might not play. It's it's easy to imagine Brock Bowers posterizing the secondary.

1:07:42Robert Mays: Well, a week ago, I would have been like, oh, well, it's, you know, it's the Cardinals. They'll be fine. It's a get right game. A week ago, I probably would have thought of. I'll probably take care of the Raiders now. Like, why? Why would we think that? Why would we think any of these are gimmies? And I'm not willing to totally throw in the towel yet, even if we move them off the table. But we're inching in a very scary direction with how this season could ultimately unfold for the Rams. So I have not done this so far this year, but we're going to dig into an under the hood on this week seven preview.

1:08:12Robert Mays: For those of you guys who are new to the show, we've done this segment essentially since we started for a lot of the preview shows. We spend 10-ish minutes just digging into a unit around the NFL that has been of interest to us that we haven't spent a lot of other time talking about. I was traveling when you guys had the production meeting for this show earlier in the week when you picked the Bucs defense as the group that we really wanted to dig into. If you leave Derek and I alone, we're going to find a way to talk about the Bucs defense. If the cat's away, we're going to dig into Josiah Trotter talk.

1:08:43Robert Mays: Amen. Derek, I want you to explain to the people why the Bucs defense is the unit that you guys, under the cover of night, decided that we were going to talk about under the hood today.

1:08:54Dave Helman: I think because the team is one in five quarterback that has obviously been injured. We've only done a little bit of like referencing in passing, like, oh, yeah, the Bucks defense is cool. And, you know, Josiah Trotter made this play against the Bengals, whatever. But I don't feel like we've really sat with the fact that they are one of the best eight ish defenses in the NFL right now. They are playing at a really high level. And I think you're seeing the Todd Bowles formula kind of working again. Outside of Brian Flores, they bring pressure and heat at quarterbacks more than anyone else in the league.

1:09:23Dave Helman: and it's funny because if you look at if you look at a lot of the numbers you you would think that some of these teams that blitz a lot get home a lot but they really don't because it's kind of like a there's a paradox of because they blitz so much teams are crafting their entire game plan around like they're gonna blitz the hell out of us and they're gonna get somebody free and so they don't get home a lot but they are forcing teams to throw short all the time throw one to 10 yard area throw we're throwing slants we're throwing quick outs we're throwing short crossers all that stuff. And the gambit with that, if you're a defense, you have to be fast.

1:09:55Dave Helman: You have to close. You have to tackle. You have to do all that stuff really well. They're doing it, man. Like, I think the linebacker play has improved. Josiah Trotter has been good. The corners are playing out of their minds. Like Parrish and McCollum, I think, are playing really good ball. The safeties, I think, are playing well. Like, it's just this was a team that I felt some of the Todd Bull stuff could still be cool. They just need players. And they got like four players this year, whether it's guys improving like Zion McCollum and Jacob Parrish or bringing in like a Josiah Trotter and getting David Walker back from injury where it's like, all right, man, they've got all the talent to do the stuff that they want to do.

1:10:32Derrik Klassen: Of all the units and teams that we watch and keep an eye on across the league, a smile comes across my face when I watch the Bucs, particularly the Bucs secondary.

1:10:44Robert Mays: You guys are pumped about this group coming in. Yeah, both of you were. And credit to you guys for seeing that it could come together in this way because it has so far. You are, I mean, you've said all the names, Derek,

1:10:53Derrik Klassen: but Jacob Parrish is a f***ing dog, man. He's awesome. He is so fun. And the thing I love about it too, so Zion McCollum's had a really great year as well. He's 6 '2", 200 pounds. Like when I see Zion McCollum break up a comeback to George Pickens, I'm like, oh yeah, okay, that makes sense. He's a big physical corner. Jacob Parrish is 5 '9", and an eighth. Dave Hellman loves himself a short king. I, as a short king, when a 5 '9 guy is just whooping ass in the NFL, it just lights up my heart. It is so fun to watch. Jacob Parrish, he's great in coverage. He was awesome against the Cowboys receivers.

1:11:32Derrik Klassen: He was good in this Pittsburgh game. His run fits are incredible, dude. Against the Steelers, he's going to get in there and lay the hammer on you. McCollum is awesome. Tykee Smith is just fast and violent. Like that is just how I would describe his game. Josiah Trotter has been incredible. And I think it's worth mentioning Antoine Winfield hasn't been out there the last two weeks. Ifeem Melifontemus has been playing safety for them and it still looks really good. Keontae Scott. I was like Defei Melifontemus just as like a we need a piece to play around with here. Yes. Keontae Scott, when he got drafted, we were like, oh, Todd's going to blitz him a lot and it's going to be fun.

1:12:09Derrik Klassen: Yep. That's what happened. Yeah. It's truly what he is. He sends him after the quarterback like four or five times a game. He sacked Aaron Rodgers the other day. He broke up. He was right in the B gap and broke up a Dak Prescott pass in the Thursday night game. He's exactly what you dreamed he might be when you drafted him. The one thing that really isn't great is the big free agency addition they made. We've talked about it before. Alex Anzalone is not doing a ton for me to this point in the season, but there are so many young, fun players that I don't really care.

1:12:42Dave Helman: it offsets it for me there's enough on balance that they've they've came out okay and i do think the thing that i want to kind of spin it forward to this game that they're playing against the panthers the the bucks specifically have been so good when they force you to throw fast and then specifically over the middle they don't give you anything in on one to ten yard passes over the middle they are second in epa per drop back and on success rate i think on their blitzes like when they make you throw the slants the short over the ball routes they kill it because i think their linebacker droppers are good and the coverage has been good where you can get them sometimes is I think two ways if you attack the perimeter a lot in the RPO game screen game all that stuff if you watch what the Steelers did they were throwing like four strong concepts and they were tagging RPOs on the backside of gun runs and they were really making them go tackle in space that way they give up enough space there because all their blitzes are we're loading seven on the line so naturally you're out leveraged to the boundary the other way is to get five out and throw to the back.

1:13:39Dave Helman: This game is interesting to me because Carolina, we've talked about it, Robert, they do all the RPO stuff. Like that will be a part of it.

1:13:45Robert Mays: But they don't throw the ball to

1:13:45Dave Helman: the back. But they don't throw the ball to the back at all, especially against the Blitz. This year on plays against the Blitz, they have thrown to the back 3.8 % of the time, which is the lowest in the NFL by about 2%. Like they just don't do it. And so they're really going to have to kill them. Either Bryce is going to have to do a really good job throwing over the middle, which every quarterback has struggled to do against in the season or their RPO stuff is going to have to hit which to Carolina's credit and Bryce's credit they are very good at that and the Steelers were good at it last week so how much of that they can get away with I am really curious about in this game

1:14:20Robert Mays: you look at some of the numbers just to revisit them one more time before we move on about how they've and this is this is worth a larger discussion like this is just probably a midweek show two weeks from now the blitz is back like that that is this if we're going to be in this under center world again what is the defensive response we're going to blitz you out of it we're going to make you pay for wanting to play this way and i think that you have felt the utility of teams that are sending a lot of bodies at the quarterback this year and have a real plan for it it the cowboys game is a perfect example from the cowboys played into their hands like if we you are making us play a certain way we're we're playing your game from the start and if that's the case the defense has already won to an extent and i think the bucks have done a very good job of that 33 % of opponent throws this season against the Bucs have gone to the sticks.

1:15:10Robert Mays: It was 41.5 % last year. Just for some context, 33 % essentially makes you this year's Cleveland Browns in terms of how much you're pushing the ball downfield. 40.5 % is Jordan Love. Pretty sizable difference. That's the gap stylistically in how teams are having to play against the Bucs this year. And you watch some of the stuff they're dialing up. It's good shit. They're getting two guys on the back consistently, like not a lot of free runners. Like if you look at the numbers, it's about in line with other blitz heavy teams, but multiple times in that Dallas game, they're making Javante Williams pick.

1:15:47Robert Mays: Like you're either blocking Anzalone or you're blocking the nickel. You're not going to get them both. And so just how good they've been at picking on pass protection rules has been so impressive. And they're making teams play that game 2.57 average time to throw against the bucks this year, 6.5 air yards per attempt. that is such a condensed scrambling like we are playing a little bit unsettled offense that they are forcing teams into doing and so that's the structural stuff you guys mentioned a lot of the personnel things there was a two play stretch against Dallas down near the goal line where the first play Yahya Diaby tosses Brevin Spanford on the goal line and gets to run stuff just tosses him on the next play Tyler Smith is pulling to kick out David Walker and David Walker jolts Tyler Smith back about a yard and a half into the backfield and that play goes for no gain the David Walker part of this to me he's been the one that's really jumped out because when we when the Ruben Bain pick happened I think a lot of us were like god they needed that I mean you're going into a season with Diaby and Al-Khadeen Muhammad and this was they needed to get this guy and then David Walker has come in and what would we have known right He didn't play last year.

1:17:02Robert Mays: He didn't play last year. And he's a fourth round pick from a small school. He's been awesome in both one-on-one situations and where I think he's just a demon. His ability, it reminds me of like the young Bosa's. They were really good at this. When you send him as a looper on stunts, his ability to put his foot in the ground and go downhill. Talk about the DAC play? Oh boy. Like, oh boy. And so you, so many of the young players on this team, and again, to your guys' credit, that was the vision for this coming in. If a lot of these guys hit at every level of the defense, is there still enough juice to their approach for this all to fall into place?

1:17:42Robert Mays: And it's been six games, we'll see. But so far, I think they've made good on the picture that you guys were painting in the summer.

1:17:50Derrik Klassen: The cruel irony is it's coming together just in time for what might be a lost season. And I think it's another reason to highlight this game. They would be in such a better spot if they had held on against Pittsburgh, obviously. But their next two games are division games. So if you beat Carolina and Atlanta against all odds, you could climb back into this thing. If the Panthers beat them, it's not mathematically over. But our simulator at The Athletic, our buddy Greg Allman pointed it out to me today. it their their odds drop to like three percent if they don't win this game so if the panthers have a chance at home it's in yeah it's in charlotte they have a chance to like shut the door on tampa before halloween and so like even though the records are not playing he's i think todd bowles said he's gonna make that determination at the end of the week okay but he's practicing okay so i mean obviously that kind of changes the math entirely for the offense if that's all we got

1:18:46Dave Helman: from jayden from jaylen daniels by the way well done hats off yes that he they again they didn't really win they only won the dallas game but like they were in the green bay game they were in the pittsburgh game and he didn't make some great plays but like they he he allowed them to have a shot in all these games exactly and that's more than late and whatever but he like they were in

1:19:09Robert Mays: these games they did not embarrass themselves offensively with an undrafted rookie in his games for a multi-game stretch.

1:19:15Dave Helman: Think about the other backup performances we've gotten this year from other guys where it's just like the team didn't have a chance. Tanner McKee against the Panthers didn't have a chance. The Cooper Rush games didn't have a chance. Jalen Daniels gave them a chance, and that was enough.

1:19:27Robert Mays: That moment of him with Rodgers after the game, did you guys see the clip of that?

1:19:30Dave Helman: It was legitimately very cool.

1:19:31Robert Mays: It was so after the game, obviously during the broadcast, they're talking ad nauseum about him worshiping Rodgers when he was growing up. He would watch his highlights before every single game, and so the cameras caught them after the game and Jalen Daniels is talking to Rogers and he's about to, he goes, Hey Rod, I don't want to be that guy. And then Rogers immediately goes, I'll send it to you for getting his jersey. And then Rogers asked him for his. And so it just, it's one of those moments where it's like, that's really cool. Like that. Just imagine that. Imagine you're an undrafted free agent, your quarterback for coming into training camp.

1:20:04Robert Mays: You have no idea if you're even going to make the team. One of your starts in the window where you get to play is against the guy that you was your idol growing up and you get to have that moment with that guy after the game. Like tell Jalen Daniels in May that that was going to happen. Like that's just an incredibly cool moment about this season.

1:20:23Derrik Klassen: Not to mention Jalen Daniels probably cemented himself a future in the NFL for several more years.

1:20:29Robert Mays: Absolutely. Absolutely. So if that's the last time we see him, I just feel like that was a parting shot worth getting into. Let's talk about what we want to know coming out of week seven in the NFL. I got two. One, Dallas Cowboys offense. Why are you doing this to me? Can we get the defense?

1:20:51Derrik Klassen: We've moved on from the defense.

1:20:52Robert Mays: Yeah, the defense, like, listen.

1:20:54Derrik Klassen: Our expectations for you were low.

1:20:56Robert Mays: We all knew the defense could do this. We were all hoping for the 17th best defense in the league. That's whatever. The offense looking as out of sorts as it has over the last couple weeks. My real what do I want to know is, can you find your footing again? Like, can we get back to a place where this feels like the offense it was supposed to feel like? And it has been frustrating. Part of my optimistic case for the Dallas Cowboys coming into this year, why I liked watching them last year, is that they had started to move outside of a lot of the things that made the previous iterations of this offense frustrating to watch.

1:21:33Robert Mays: When they're sitting there in the gun and it's all spread out and we're all stop routes and nonsense, I didn't like watching this team last year. We were doing just the requisite amount of all of the things that make the game slightly easier on your offense. We're using more play action. We're more under center. We're just like pushing the buttons that you don't just because your quarterback can do it. Doesn't mean it's the right approach. If it's, if it's not too good for Patrick Mahomes, it's not too good for you. And that's where I am with the Dallas Cowboys offense. And so we, This year so far, they have been in spread formations on 44 % of their plays.

1:22:12Robert Mays: 44%. I don't think there's another team above like 32%. Against the Bucs, it was 58. Against the Packers, it was 64. 64. Their motion rates overall have dropped 10 percentage points from last year. If you look at 25 and 26 combined, they're 64 seasons, right? 32 teams times 2. Their 2025 rate would rank 21st of those 64 seasons. Their 2026 rate is 54th. They've been in the guns 67.5 % of the time this year compared to 59 % last year. This is the biggest one. We talked earlier in the show about run action rates. The Chiefs are number one. The Cowboys last year were at 55.7%. This year, they are at 44.5%.

1:22:58Robert Mays: It is dead last in the NFL by a lot. Some of that is driven by the running game not being very good so far. but you can't scrap it now. You can't be in a place six weeks into the year where it's just like, well, the running game is not working. We're going to be in the gun 70 % of the time and throw the ball 70 % of the time. Like we need to get back to a place where there's enough ingredients in this thing where you feel the potency and talent of the offense overall. And I want to see if we can start getting back there against a team that theoretically will not pressure them to the degree that the last two opponents did.

1:23:30Robert Mays: But even if they do, you need a better answer than the one you've had. Like you can't be playing the game on these teams terms when you have the talent and the quality that this team has offensively.

1:23:40Dave Helman: And that's the thing. You mentioned all the spread formations we've said against the Blitz last couple of weeks. All they do is get in these two by two spread formations and they're like, Javante, we'll figure it out. And it's like he's good at pass pro, but not if he's getting overloaded every single play. And so they just I think why it's been so frustrating for me really quickly is that my case for why they would be good was that they could do anything. They could get under center. They could play action. They could motion. That was it. It was like they can't do everything. They did it last year.

1:24:07Dave Helman: You didn't even have to imagine it.

1:24:08Robert Mays: They did it last year.

1:24:09Dave Helman: And they have reverted back to, and I will say this, I really love Dak Prescott. I think he's a great player. I think at this stage in his career, it's probably fair to say that like them getting into the spread stuff is probably like, he just likes it, man. It's like the Joe Burrow thing. Like, I think there probably is a certain amount of it where he's like, I'm comfortable with this. And it's like at a certain point, you have to tell him like we have to do other things to make that even worth it.

1:24:34Robert Mays: If they didn't have the proof of concept last year, I'd be fine hearing that argument being like, oh, well, he just doesn't like it. He can't really do it. I hope you both learned a valuable lesson.

1:24:45Derrik Klassen: I hate myself so much.

1:24:48Robert Mays: I hate myself so much. And it's funny because I think that when we had those conversations in the preseason, there were people just like, oh, look at these national assholes hyping up the Dallas Cowboys. And every time I wanted to be like, I've never done this. I refuse to do this. They were a team that I actively loathed as strong. I had a real distaste for a lot of the things the Dallas Cowboys did for a long time. I finally started to come around over the last year for a bunch of different reasons. And immediately I regret it. Immediately. That's Dallas Cowboys football. Immediately, I regret this.

1:25:24Robert Mays: Anyway, my other one thing that I want to hit just very, very quickly, let's stick in the NFC East. We were not going to talk about this. We have to. What does the J.J. McCarthy thing look like? Like what J.J. McCarthy starting for the Giants. What does it look like?

1:25:34Derrik Klassen: You know what? Allow me to put. Hey, allow me to put glib cynicism aside for a second. And J.J. McCarthy was not good last year. I don't particularly expect him to be good for the Giants. Me neither. this is so much more interesting and so obviously the right way to do this like what what are we getting out of 12 starts of jamis winston even if he has some moments but he doesn't like we did

1:25:57Robert Mays: this on the hangover if the entire argument for a rookie for a veteran quarterback is well the ball is going to the right place you know like they're able to run the offense it wasn't there are guys that are open he's not throwing them the ball like at that point if it's going to be volatile anyway Give me the more talented guy. Like, it's not even a discussion.

1:26:15Derrik Klassen: The more talented guy who what? Even after everything he's been through in the NFL is like maybe 24? Is he even 24?

1:26:21Robert Mays: Super young. And listen, there's been some discourse about this this week and discourse I understand. I think some people looked at, well, Kevin O 'Connell couldn't make J.J. McCarthy work. And so that means that he's broken and not worth it. J.J. McCarthy was actively very bad last year. The Vikings offense isn't killing it right now. and so I at least am open to the idea that this is a we spent a fifth round pick on a dude who is a top 12 pick that is toolsy he has first round tools so why not it's a free it's a free roll and so I I get it like I think we all kind of just looked at it in the moment was like oh whatever but it's a worthwhile trade if you're the Giants I don't know if it works but I'm at least interested in watching this more than I was the Jameis Winston version of this thing just neighbors and Isaiah likely can play just being transparent.

1:27:06Derrik Klassen: Like we come in on Sunday and we set up the TVs, how we want them and what we think is the most important and the most interesting. The James Winston giants for me are going in a quad box that I will look at four times. And then I'll like, listen to the hangover to see what the giants did. The JJ McCarthy giants. I'm keeping an eye on that for better or for worse. I just want to see the fourth quarter.

1:27:28Robert Mays: Like it's, I don't know how good it was, but it was at least more engaging than whatever the first three quarters looked like. So what does it look like?

1:27:37Dave Helman: That's really all this comes down to. Yeah. Can he do anything that Jameis Winston was not doing? That's all. That's all it is. There's also, you can probably trick a less discerning person that it's just Jackson Dart.

1:27:50Derrik Klassen: Yes. Just replace one young first round pick blonde quarterback with another. It's great. Who runs around a little bit, likes to get hit, chuck it down the field. Okay. Right. But like that, that is, it's a bit, and it's a good bit for the record, but like, if you're going to lose Jackson dart a game and a, and three plays into the season, what a shitty place to be. And I feel for giants fans, it's almost miraculous that you get a chance to plug a young, talented guy that you haven't seen a lot of football from into this situation. Cause it like, what does it serve to watch James Winston or Cooper rush play these games?

1:28:26Derrik Klassen: Like at least this is a ball of clay you can hopefully mold. And if it doesn't work out, oh well. But it's just so much more interesting. I have to assume the Giants fans are exactly,

1:28:35Robert Mays: are more interested in whatever this is going to look like than how they were feeling over the last couple weeks. So that's one of my what do I want to know. What does it look like with J.J. McCarthy in this offense? What do you got for me? What do you want to know coming out of week seven? I want to know what happens in the Jake Plummer Bowl. Broncos at Cardinals.

1:28:52Derrik Klassen: That is not how I thought you would say that. I don't think it's fair to frame this purely as like a test for the Broncos. Like the Cardinals are just some speed bump. Like they just beat the Rams and they have had moments of functioning good football where they've scared some teams. Having said that, this is still the 27th defense in the NFL by DVOA. They're allowing points on 46 % of their drives. They're allowing a touchdown on 35 % of their drives. they're forcing a three and out at the third lowest rate in the NFL. This is as good of an opportunity as you're going to get in the NFL to quote unquote get right.

1:29:35Derrik Klassen: Even knowing what the Cardinals did against the Rams and they've had some other moments as well. The NFL is really hard. This is as easy as it gets. And if I had to guess the size of the Broncos fan base and the location, it's not exactly going to be a hostile environment. I bet there's going to be a lot of Denver fans in Phoenix. go look like not a disaster. I want to know if the Broncos cannot look like a disaster in a game.

1:29:59Robert Mays: Derek, what do you got for me? What do you want to know coming out of week seven?

1:30:03Dave Helman: I mean, mine is actually in like a similar vein. The Saints, can you get back on track? Because the Steelers are four and two. I think that they're a pretty solid team, but they are not infallible. They almost lost to Jalen Daniels Bucks team last week. And so the Saints sitting at two and four where like the New York game was really weird. They kind of squeaked one out against Baltimore this year. I think they have an opportunity where if you can beat Pittsburgh and you can take a breather, they have their bye in week eight, and then you have a very beatable Cleveland team after that. There's a chance that they can like settle the heartbeat of their season.

1:30:37Dave Helman: I think if you lose the Steelers game, you end up pretty far behind the eight ball in terms of being able to win a very winnable division. And so can they just do it? This is a Steelers team that, again, I think they are good, but they are beatable. And so can they get back on track? I desperately need that version of the Saints to show up for the wins pool.

1:30:57Robert Mays: I'm the opposite.

1:30:58Derrik Klassen: I have the Steelers. I need them to win this game. I desperately need it. Parlez-vous français? Laissez-les bon temps rouler. I can't believe I flubbed that. Did you take French in high school? Absolutely. You're from New Orleans. You have to. It's constitutionally required.

1:31:12Robert Mays: How good is your French right now? Could you get by if you went to France right now?

1:31:14Derrik Klassen: It's been 20 years. It's bad now. But like if I was there, I could like read the street signs and ask for directions.

1:31:22Robert Mays: It takes me like three days when I'm in a Spanish speaking country to like feel mildly comfortable again where I can like get myself by.

1:31:28Derrik Klassen: I feel I think I would have irrational confidence. And the first Parisian I met would just shoot me down so hard. It would be really humiliating.

1:31:36Robert Mays: All right. That is all we've got for today. I will not be on the recap show tonight because I'm going to Bears Patriot. Yes. So very much looking forward to that.

1:31:46Derrik Klassen: The listeners won't hear this until after the game is over. If the outcome is either really good or horrendously bad, we're going to call you.

1:31:55Robert Mays: Okay.

1:31:56Derrik Klassen: That's fine. We're going to call you and put you on the air.

1:31:59Robert Mays: Well, for me, it's going to be, that's the funny thing is, for me, it's obviously, no matter what happens, it's going to be really good or horrendously bad. Like, I'm going to feel one of those two ways, no matter how the game actually unfolds.

1:32:09Derrik Klassen: It feels like a missed opportunity that we didn't get you on the phone after the J.J. McCarthy game. I wouldn't, I wouldn't pick it up. I would not have answered if you guys had done that.

1:32:17Robert Mays: All right. That is all we've got for today. We will be back on Sunday doing all things week seven. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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