Week 8 preview: Can the Cowboys or Broncos prove they're the real deal?

0:02Welcome to the athletic football show. It's the week eight preview me Dave Hellman Derek Lassen dove into a host of games today. Two games of the week. We had the Cowboys and the Broncos. Not talked a lot about the Dallas Cowboys and not really studied the Dallas Cowboys in any of these preview shows. Use this as an opportunity to do exactly that in a big game against Denver, trying to figure out how serious we should be taking the Cowboys. Aaron Rodgers is playing against the Packers this weekend. Not sure if you've heard about that. Beyond the intrigue that comes along with him playing against Green Bay, we also have a Steelers team that's still at the top of the AFC North.

0:36We have a Packers team that currently has the number one seed in the NFC. So a lot to tune into in that one. We hit one thing from Ravens, Bears, Eagles, Giants, Bills, Panthers, and Browns, Patriots. Spent a little bit of time on Sicko Street with Joe Flacco playing against the Jets. And then chatted about what we want to know coming out of week eight in the NFL. Enjoyed this one. Hope you guys do as well.

1:04Digging into the week eight preview on the athletic football show. We got two games of the week today presented by BetMGM, starting with the Cowboys and the Broncos, Dave. And the reason this is a game of the week and the reason we wanted to talk about this is that somehow this is one of the only football programs in America where the Dallas Cowboys have been severely under discussed. I think probably a new experience for you. I was going to say, I kind of love it because that's been my life since I got into this industry is talking about the Cowboys. And don't get me wrong. I owe a lot to being able to talk about the Cowboys, but it's nice to look at everything else and say, hey, this is what I can bring to the table with other things.

1:46And then this is what I know about the rest of the league. But it's like an old glove that you can put on in week eight where you're like, all right, the Cowboys are, it's time. It's time to dive into this team that we have definitely avoided more than most NFL programs so far. Derek has gotten used to this process over the last couple of years where there's some quirks to like how we do the show. And every once in a while, if a team plays in primetime and if there are some underwhelming games, we're just not really going to talk about them very much. And it feels like the Cowboys have been that to an extent, right?

2:16Like even last week, the Cowboys had a really impressive performance against Washington. But I think the more notable storyline coming out of that game, which is how we handled it on the recap, was Washington season is kind of circling the drain right now. And that's what we mostly focused on. We haven't really talked about the Cowboys very much. And when we're programming these games of the week, every once in a while, it's like if there's a tiebreaker, I want a team that we haven't dug into at all. Like I want to go back and watch the Cowboys. And so we use this as an excuse to do that. And if you look at the spread of this game, Derek, it's Broncos minus three and a half.

2:45And I think that says a lot considering this game is in Denver, that these teams are kind of of a similar quality, right? And so I think that's what makes this so interesting is that now we're in a spot where what can the Cowboys do in this game? And if the Cowboys can somehow go on the road and beat the Broncos, if this offense can keep playing the way that it's been playing and the defense shows the signs of life that we've seen recently from them we're at a point where I think we have to ask a pretty big question about how seriously we should take the Dallas Cowboys I think we're gonna have to especially if they play the way that I think they're they're going to play which obviously we're going to talk about here in a minute but like I this offense is insane and I think that you can make a case like if it goes pretty well for them and Dak continues to play well they can run the ball okay and they to come out and win this game and they end up four three and one which that Packers game is still kind of a little bit of a ridiculous thing but anyway like they if they can get to that record like you can make the case that they won just record wise will be like a game behind the Eagles if they can win their game so they're right in the running for the division and then I think you can make the case that they might have like the best side of the ball in the division which is like a huge like when you are trying to make like a punch in the playoffs like to just have one side of the ball where we're like, these guys are elite.

3:58They can handle what they need to handle. That stuff really matters down the stretch of the season and into the playoffs. And I think in the wildcard race too, you can look at that, right? Like they're probably going to be competing with teams like the Niners for that seventh spot, for that seventh spot, if they don't end up winning the NFC East. And I think that's also a consideration. It's like when we get to week 15, I think there's a very real chance if everything is bunched together, we may feel best about where Dallas's offense is compared to all of the other units clustered around that group in the NFC.

4:25And so I do think that's where this starts. So let's begin the conversation about this game on that side of the ball. When we were talking about this earlier today, Derek, just the Cowboys offense against the Broncos defense, you were pumped about this. What is that rooted in? Like, what about this matchup specifically with Dallas's offense and Denver's defense has you very excited for Sunday? Is the game on Sunday? The game is on Sunday. Great. It's the Tony Romo game, by the way, which is a nice little wrinkle. That is a nice little wrinkle. um I to me it's just it's everything like this is the best version of what I think we thought it could have been coming into the year like to me why it's so fun and kind of rewarding to watch is I think the last few years with the Cowboys offense and with Dak Prescott they've been good only in so far as like okay we can get into spread formations and Dak will get us in the right play and he can just kind of slice and dice some of these defenses and sometimes they just weren't talented enough on the rest of the offense to be able to do some of that stuff.

5:22And so it was fun to watch, but it wasn't always a complete unit. That is not the case this year. Like they can do everything. They run the ball relatively well. And it's not just that they run the ball relatively well. It's kind of varied and it's pieced together very well with their play action game with day use a lot. Their rollout game is really good. Like last week, they hit a number of just like very free throws for Dak Prescott to hit some of them in the flat, some of them on these like deep sprint out corner routes like they just he Dak Prescott has a little bit off his plate now in terms of easier down in distances they're giving him a few more gimmies but when they still need to go into hey man you need to be Peyton Manning and be our like pure drop back five step drop do all your stuff he's still one of the best in the league and so you add all that on top of the fact that now they can throw down the field to George Pickens in a way that they couldn't the last handful of years like Dak right now is on throws at least 20 yards and outside of the numbers which is kind of just go ball proximity he's completing 55 of his passes he was at like 40 something percent two years ago and he was at 35 ish last year like this that part of the offense just didn't exist so it really is like everything the floor is higher the ceiling's higher and dac is playing like dac all i've ever wanted is for the cowboys to run like a league average offense and all of the things that make stuff easier for your quarterback and for your players that's all i've ever wanted Like I've never needed them to be like this Shanahan McVay sort of team where there's all these moving parts and you're really kind of catering to making things as easy as possible for the quarterback.

6:53I don't need them to be living on that side of the street. All I wanted was for them to make things slightly easier because, Derek, you and I talked about this a lot. I remember talking about this with Nate often over the last four or five years. The Cowboys offense too often just felt so hard. Everything felt so hard. It was all so spread out. It was all so stagnant. Think of just all of the stop routes, the lack of motion, the lack of movement. It was so constricted and so difficult. It felt like they were fighting uphill all the time. And I don't need them to go from that version of the offense again to like what the Dolphins have been.

7:28But now using league average or even slightly higher than that motion, play action, different personnel groupings, all that stuff, like you said, to just give Dak a few free, easy plays a game. That's all I've ever wanted. And we have realized that version of the Cowboys offense, the number. And I brought up a version of this earlier in the season on a show I did with Ollie Connelly, but it's worth bringing up again. So far this year, the Dallas Cowboys have the second most play action dropbacks in the NFL. Only the Colts have more than the Cowboys do. This is a team that was near the bottom of the league and play action rate in each of the last couple of seasons.

8:02Through seven weeks, the Cowboys have 29.7 total EPA on play action dropbacks. In the past three seasons combined, 2024, 2023, and 2022, it was 19.4. So the Cowboys have added 50 % more value in seven weeks than they did in the last three seasons combined on play action passes. That's it. All I've wanted was to make things a little bit easier on the very good quarterback, and now it's off to the races. Which that's exactly what it looks like too, is Derek laid it out really perfectly. Like Dak is still doing the stuff that we loved about Dak. It's just with a higher floor and like him having to do that less often for the Cowboys to be successful.

8:48And wouldn't you know, it's just as fun as we thought it might be for all of those years. I don't think I really thought about this enough. And we talked about it a little bit in the summer and previewing the season, but me personally, I don't think it clicked enough for me that George Pickens is like the perfect Dak Prescott receiver. I should have thought about it more as I was considering how well that marriage would go. And then you watch what those two are together. And the fact that all Dak wants, Derek, is to take those one-on-one tight window opportunities on goal balls down the sideline when they're available to him.

9:20He hasn't had a guy that justifies that since Michael Gallup like three or four years ago. And now he finally has that guy and maybe a guy who is better positioned with that skill set than almost any other receiver in the league. And shockingly, it looks very good when he gives him those sorts of chances. It's been beautiful. Like my he hit two go balls like that in this last game that they played. One was down the right sideline and George Pickens just does such a good job. It's not just that he knows how to go up in the ball and find the ball in the air. Like he's incredible at that, obviously, but he does such a good job of making sure he's not being squeezed to the sideline by the DB so that Dak has room to make the throw.

10:01And then he just does a little push off late. So physicality is very important here. It's it's so good. He's really, really good at it. And I think maybe even better than he had ever been in Pittsburgh. Like it was obviously part of his game, but I really do think his game has been a little bit cleaner in Dallas. And then there was one down the left sideline right before the two minute warning. And this to me, like, speaks to the whole, like, what the Cowboys offense can get away with now compared to previous years. Dax starts that drive with a seven yard sack. He immediately goes back and says, all right, I'm going to throw my go ball down the left side sideline to George Pickens.

10:33He hits it. It's a perfect throw. Pickens, like, tracks it perfectly over his outside shoulder. It's from both guys a beautiful sequence. And then I think on the very next play, they hand off to Javante Williams against Washington in, like, a little bit of a dime look. And they pop this huge run to get, like, inside of the 10. Like them just like that sequence of plays of like last year, if they took a seven yard sack before the two minute drive was over, like you're just not going to score points there. And now they have enough juice to go and make a play like that. You know, what's crazy is that was one of the things I felt best about heading into this season.

11:05And I love that you brought up Gallup because I said in the off season, like you've already seen this type of receiver in this offense. This is all the stuff Gallup can do, but I think Pickens is a better athlete than Michael Gallup. He's more dynamic and dangerous than Michael Gallup. And I still somehow undersold it. Like I came into the season thinking like, I really think George Pickens is going to make himself a lot of money this year. Like I felt good about that, but I didn't see this level of explosion, at least not to this degree coming. And especially when you remember that CeeDee Lamb just got back.

11:36I mean, most of this stuff has been happening with just George Pickens. And I think that has maybe not surprised, but just very much impressed people in that building where it's like, hey, we didn't have the guy that we view as our number one for a lot of this. And George Pickens stepped up, diversified his game, and they really didn't miss a beat. And so now we get both of these guys with Dak playing the way that he's playing. The offensive line looks like it's getting a little bit healthier. Tyler Booker's back. I think Cooper Beebe is going to play in this game, but we'll see. But this is what they've looked like trying to finagle things, like the offensive line, CD being out.

12:14it's fair to say we haven't seen their final form and they're already incredible. So, I mean, that is incredibly exciting. I think part of the reason I didn't let myself go down that road is that it always feels like we're 10 seconds away from the George Pickens thing exploding. And so part of me didn't want to get overly excited about it just because I do think there's very real downside with a player like him who's had his moments. That is fair. And I've been thinking about that a lot and that's fair. And the Cowboys, the Cowboys mic'd George Pickens up during this commanders game I highly encourage you to go look for it it's like seems like a dangerous choice it's six of the most entertaining minutes that you're gonna find in the NFL over the last couple weeks but I found myself thinking about that and I was like well you know George Pickens has been dealing with the classic case of the uber talented receiver who's had shit quarterback play and like you go into every game with maybe like very little if not zero confidence that you're going to get the ball that you're going to have the chance to showcase your stuff.

13:12And you do still, maybe you're on guard for that a little bit, but if George Pickens knows Dak is going to get him the ball like this every week, then what is there to lose your shit about? I think that's totally fair. And I think that that was my main question coming in is that was those stretches where George Pickens didn't seem to want to play football. Are those based in the frustrations he had with the quarterback and the offense, or is that just who George Pickens is as a person? And so the fact that it seems like more the former than the latter so far as a win for Dallas. This is maybe too anecdotal, but it's funny you bring that up because go back to week one, George Pickens effort level against Philly on plays where he knew he wasn't getting the ball.

13:51Fair to question that. And it was a talking point in Cowboys circles like, well, is this what the Steelers warned us about? Now go watch the commanders game. And he's digging people out in the run game, just blasting guys. and maybe the confidence of knowing you're going to get the ball and the fact that he's got 600 yards less than halfway through the season, I can't divorce those two things. I don't think that's a coincidence. You mentioned Cooper Beebe potentially being back in this game. I think that's very important, just thinking about this team in pass protection more than even on the ground.

14:21Derek, I think they've done a good job structurally with the run game. It's fallen off a little bit from where it was over the first month of the season. They no longer lead the league in rushing success rate, but they are a very solid running game. I think Javante Williams is playing well, even independent of what the line and just the overall design is doing on that side of things. Like that run that you mentioned, the cut he makes on that run is absolutely disgusting. Like that's not something where there was a massive hole. He is a positive add to the run game overall. He's not just a passenger in all of this.

14:49So I think the run game, a lot of the component parts are very good. I think the line looks better in those scenarios. In pass protection, you can get after this group, especially with like some twists and stunts. I think Washington did that a couple of times in this game. twists and stunts coming back toward the center. And so if Cooper Beebe can get back and get a little bit more pocket integrity in the middle, I think that's important, especially against a Broncos team that's going to create a lot of havoc. So that's one thing to keep an eye on. Anything else specifically against this Broncos defense, which again, I think leads the league in defensive success rate against the pass, is a very good unit again on that side of the ball.

15:23What about them against this Cowboys team has you most intrigued about the matchup? I would say probably two things really quickly. one like if whatever they can get done over the middle of the field against this Broncos past defense I think that that's what they want to do we know that Dak loves to throw scene balls we know they like to get CD activated over that area of the field this Denver defense over the middle the linebackers are not good in coverage and I think Hufanga has been a little bit better than earlier in the season but like Brandon Jones last week was spinning against the Giants and so I think that area is gettable the other thing too I know we know the Denver pass rush is very very good do we realize that they're on record to like they're they're on pace to break the sack record and that's obviously like a little bit you know justin feels yeah exactly like they're they're cheesing it a little bit but i think they have eight more sacks than anyone in the league and they have a 13.3 percent sack rate right now which is would be the highest of the century if that holds which obviously it probably won't but the fact that they're even in that area is insane so i i do think that like there's a chance if the cowboys don't run this game don't run the ball as well as they would like to in this game.

16:29If those guys can tee off, we might get some tough ones. Yeah, I think that, again, Terrence Steele has been really good in the run game. Some of his best run game moments that I can remember from him so far this season. And I think Tyler Guyton, you can kind of weaponize the athleticism and they've done that in a really good way. But if you put him in one-on-one pass rush situations against Nick Benito or Jonathan Cooper, guys like that, I think you still see some of the gaps of where a guy like Tyler Guyton needs to go. This might be common sense considering how much man the Broncos like to run, but they're at a top 10 rate in terms of heavy boxes.

17:00Like you're not typically going to get a lot of light boxes against the Broncos. Cowboys still move the ball against the Panthers, and part of that was George Pickens going nuclear, but they could not run the ball that day. And with this pass rush and everything Denver has on the table, I mean, if that's how they play it, and if the Cowboys can't run the ball, I think you're setting Dak up to, you know, have one of those days where maybe you get strip sacked or you just take a lot of hits and things just aren't clicking the way that they're supposed to. The last note about that, I was rewatching the Washington game.

17:33Anytime they had one-on-one situations on the outside, the Cowboys are really capable of taking advantage of those. And you see it in the numbers as well. They're one of the best offenses in the league. Success rate, any advanced number against single high coverages, they're picking on teams that do that to them. Against split safety coverages, they've actually been below average in drop back success rate this year. And we know the Broncos play a lot of man. They do play a lot of single high safety. And so do they do something a little bit different against the Cowboys team that has relatively struggled in that area?

18:03And then the one thing against the Broncos and his last note on this side of the ball, I thought the Giants did a really good job last week of getting them in base defense with two tight ends on the field, knowing out of those looks, you're probably gonna see a lot of single high and a lot of cover three. And then Derek, they were doing a really good job of bleeding out that right side in those cover three looks where you're vacating that space. And then you're either vacating that space or you're making guys make a decision, right? So on the first big chunk, I think it was the Bellinger touchdown in that game.

18:32It's in 12 personnel. They have both tight ends to that side run like verticals, one up the seam, one down the right sideline. They kind of make the corner choose. They get a chunk play. And then they multiple different times bled out that side and then put somebody back in there. So it was either like a corner route or some other vertical heading in there. And in those plays, if you're in base defense, you're really picking on those spine defenders on the Broncos that are weakest in coverage. Alex Singleton, Brandon Jones. And so if you can get them in heavier bodies and try to attack those guys specifically, we've seen a lot of teams have success trying to tap into that this year.

19:08And that's such a great thing to bring up. Like one, it was getting into 12 personnel, but which I think I want to say it was like their first 20 plays of the game they were in 12 personnel. And a lot of it was you had both tight ends attached to the formation on one side and then your two receivers to the other side. And what Denver kept doing, this was kind of the mistake I felt they made in this game. They kept playing their corners over. So they would like bring Patrick Sertan and Riley Moss to man up on the receivers. And then your quote corner to the other side of the field, if you're playing like a cover three, ended up being Brandon Jones.

19:37And so, like you said, they're attacking him with like some of these vertical stuff. And Brandon Jones is like he's not built to play a deep third as a corner. Like it's just unfamiliar territory to him. And so I thought that was a pretty good point by the Giants to be able to do some of that. And the Cowboys aren't the biggest 12 personnel on the team in the league, but like they can get to it if they want to. And I wouldn't be surprised if they weaponize it here. On the other side of the ball, I think this is the less interesting matchup just in terms of overall quality, but maybe the more important matchup when it comes to thinking about the Cowboys season, the offense has been good and the offense is going to continue to be good.

20:09Dave, I think how far this goes for the Cowboys and how seriously we should take them. A lot of that is rooted in what are the realistic expectations for the defense? And so the defense, for the most part, had been a little more than a speed bump over the first like four or five weeks of the year. They go in and play their best game of the year against Washington. And I think you saw some of the different tweaks that we had on that side of the ball. They used four-man fronts on 80%, at least 80 % of their snaps in the first five weeks of the season. Last week, it was on 60 % of their snaps. So you're seeing a lot more five-man fronts, a lot more six-man fronts, just variation in that way.

20:45They blitzed the Cowboys did against Washington 42.5 % of the time after not cracking 29 % in any other game this year. They played man 47.5 % of the time after not cracking 16.5 % in any single game this year. And I think that overall approach increased aggressiveness, a little bit more variety. It felt a little bit more dynamic. I think it kind of bled into how guys played on that side of the ball. Like you just felt a little bit more urgency at all three levels playing that way. And so I wonder if that isn't just a specific game plan thing against Washington, but it's something they're going to try to tap into a little bit more just to get something akin to what they got last week against the commanders, which is a fun parallel because I agree with all of that.

21:28And they looked faster and more aggressive than they did at any point in the season last week. I thought I still wonder how much of it is real. I can do. If you go back and watch that game, I counted like five explosive opportunities that the commanders just left on the field. A couple bad throws by Jaden Daniels, a couple egregious drops, a couple of turndowns. And all of a sudden, and obviously Jaden Daniels left early in the second half, so that's worth keeping in mind as well. But even in the time that he played, those were all opportunities when Jaden was still in the game where you're talking about 70 to 80 yards and several explosive opportunities that I thought the commanders left out there through like nothing Dallas was doing.

22:10Although maybe that added pressure was part of it. And the reason I said that there's a parallel is I think this is a quarterback that you can count on to leave some throws out there if you make him uncomfortable. I think that's fair to say, Derek. That is extremely fair to say. You know, Robert, we were talking a little bit before the show, and I guess we can jump to that. We can jump to that now. Like I just. I don't know if any offense in the league right now, play calling wise and what is on the table for you is more limited by their quarterback than Denver. And I'm going to exclude teams like the Cleveland Browns who are playing a third round undersized rookie like and like you can take away a couple of those teams.

22:48But like outside of the teams that went into the season thinking this guy is our starter. This is who we want week one, et cetera, et cetera. I just don't feel like anyone is more limited by their quarterback than this team. And he can still make a couple of good plays outside of the pocket. Some of the dig routes he throws to Cortland Sutton can be good. But like I just the down to down and how they can piece it together is very frustrating, which I think probably bodes well if the Cowboys want to be a little bit aggressive and do some fun stuff like you can get three or four negative plays out of him.

23:17The run game for Denver has been better this year than it was even last year. Right. They have been a consistent running game. They've been an efficient running game. That part of it is fine. Like I'm OK with everything that they're trying to do on the ground. The passing game for the Denver Broncos right now, to me, is aesthetically one of the least enjoyable units in the entire league. Like, I watch them and I'm just like, this is not fun. Like, I don't like anything about who they are or what they're trying to do. We know this. The amount of screens and throws behind the line of scrimmage that this team is deploying is wild.

23:4915 % of Bo Nix's attempts this year per Next Gen stats have been screen passes, which is the highest rate in the league. they lead the league in the number of throws they have behind the line of scrimmage despite being 24th in success rate on those plays the only teams with fewer epa on throws behind the line of scrimmage this year than the broncos are the bengals the dolphins and the titans broken offenses and i think if you look at just the broad strokes of it all the screens throwing the ball underneath it feels a little bit hypocritical because there are offenses people would point to being like well you wouldn't say that about the chiefs and the chiefs play that way.

24:23When I watch the Broncos, what they feel like to me, you know that band Greta Van Fleet? I'm familiar. Yes. So it's, I think that the Broncos to me are like the Greta Van Fleet version of the Chiefs Led Zeppelin where like you're trying to hit all of the same beats, but there's like absolutely no soul to it whatsoever. It all feels just completely joyless and devoid of any sort of character. That's what watching the Denver Broncos version of this offense feels like to me right now. A cover band. Yes, a bad cover band, like a very calculated and cynical cover band that is like, they're doing something specific solely because they think they know which boxes the focus group needs you to check.

25:05And you know what's really funny? You mentioned that because of the screens, and I think that that's certainly a big part of it. There are also right now only two quarterbacks in the league who have thrown at least 15 passes beyond 30 air yards. it's Patrick Mahomes who's done it 21 times and Bo Nix. Bo Nix has completed two of those passes two of them like I think there were one or two drops in there maybe but he's also just overthrown almost all of these whereas Patrick Mahomes I think you know first couple of weeks was missing some of them but he's actually started to connect on a lot of in the last handful of weeks and so like it's just funny that they also have that parallel of like we're also chucking it down the field all the time to try to bail us out of this but for the Broncos it just doesn't work.

25:45And Derek, you brought up something earlier today that I think is a really incisive point and I think really does speak to why certain units feel the way that they do. When you watch the Broncos right now, there is just something missing from the overall formula on offense, especially with the passing game. You watch it and it's like, there's just something off here. And I don't know if I can totally articulate it, but you can feel it when you watch them. And I think the same is true for the Eagles, right? That's been the case for the Eagles for most of the season until last week. The difference is the Eagles have such an overwhelming amount of pass catching talent that even with that feeling of watching them and just being like there's some ingredient missing here, they can often overcome it because the players are so good.

26:25Well, the Broncos have that icky feeling that you get watching them and the players aren't good enough to ever overcome that. And so I think that's why the Eagles every once in a while can get to a level of watchability where maybe it's a bad half, but they'll click into it eventually. the Broncos don't necessarily have to get there because it's not inevitable that a superstar receiver is going to make a play or two as you get over the course of four quarters. It's funny you bring them up because we talk about this with the Eagles all the time too. And I was going to ask you all a question. Do the Broncos have a dig or a crosser or like an over in their playbook?

27:02Oh, they, they, one of his biggest throws is the one he throws to Corlin Sutton it's one of the only throws he likes but they don't race anyone from like hash to sideline like he said that's actually a good point like they don't run a lot of the like deep overs that you're gonna hit because I know I just I don't think Bo Nix really lays those out very well Bo Nix has a bottom five uh he's bottom five in yards per attempt over the middle of the field and particularly like watching the the Giants game in particular but I think it's been kind of consistent like when you watch him yeah like he'll throw slants and stuff but that dig he throws to Coral and Sutton is like the slant slants in one-on-one situations where it's three by one and he has a single up receiver on the backside or that dig to Coral and Sutton like those are the two over the middle throws I just feel like when I watch the Broncos yeah the screens and the short stuff and then if there is anything resembling a deep attempt it is way downfield and far outside the numbers like Derek said and and occasionally they'll hit him and occasionally the receiver doesn't even have a chance.

28:03And it's so feast or famine. And it's so gimme throw or extremely high difficulty throw. And it's just a hard way to live, especially when things aren't clicking. This Cowboys defense, even if we saw them play a little bit better last week, has still not been a very good unit. And so we're at a point now where if you're the Broncos and you can't put up 24, 28 points against this version of the Cowboys, and I'm not talking about scoring 33 points in the fourth quarter in one of the wonkiest games I've ever seen. So if they can't get to that level against this version of the Dallas defense, even with that group playing better, I think it's going to tell us a lot.

28:38I haven't seen anything from the Cowboys that makes me think that they've turned over a new leaf. There's a lot of talk about them switching to more man coverage, and maybe they'll do that here. And like I said, maybe you can make Bo Nix uncomfortable enough that he's inaccurate, especially throwing down the field, But, I mean, this is a team that's given up 41 explosives this year. And if it looks hard against Dallas, then that is a very troubling sign for me. Before we move on, let's take a quick break.

29:15Let's get to our next one here, the Packers at the Steelers. Packers are three-point favorites in this game. Why is this game of the week, Dave? I'll let you take this one. I think it doesn't take a lot of creativity to land on the answer here. It's Aaron Rodgers playing his first ever game against the Green Bay Packers. And that's still very interesting to me. And like, if that wasn't enough, maybe you think it's fake. Maybe you think there's some smoke and mirrors to it. But the Steelers are on top of their division. And even if it's just because the AFC North is bad, they're firmly in the playoff mix.

29:49So the only thing that could make this better is if it was at Lambeau. I really wish it was at Lambeau, but it's still grade A Sunday night football. And one of the other reasons I wanted to talk about this game, going back to the Cowboys conversation, we haven't talked about the Steelers very much. Right. They played that game against the Jets and then they played that stupid game against the Patriots where we were slamming the Patriots more than talking about the Steelers winning that game. They play a London game against the Vikings. And so that game kind of happens very quietly. And then they played on Thursday night.

30:18But obviously we talk about those games only on the Thursday night recap shows. And so I felt like I hadn't gone back and really studied the Steelers on both sides of the ball. And I wanted to use this, Derek, as a chance to do it. So let's dig into what we think each side of the ball is going to look like here. Let's start with when the Packers have the ball in this game. We watched the Steelers really struggle defensively against the Bengals. And I think in a lot of ways, that game was an expression of what the Steelers defense is for better or worse. So when you're thinking about this version of the Packers attacking this version of the Steelers, what are the couple points that are in front of mind for you I still think the Steelers defense is pretty bad the numbers don't look so bad because you know they had the Carson Wentz game they get to play against Dylan Gabriel like the numbers have gotten buoyed a little bit I still think this is a defense that is incredibly gettable and to me that starts with one I think the interior of the defensive line has still been a little bit up and down but their linebackers are still a huge issue and I think given they are in the middle of the field at your second level that bleeds into both into the run and to the pass.

31:21And for me, the Packers are an offense that can kind of get to almost any answer whenever they want to. Like, I think they are a very like full menu offense. I think their screen game is good. I think their play action game has been really, really good this year. They also do a great job of they'll just get to the line like last week, for example, they came out in a lot of trips and they would just motion the back out really quick to get like a little bit of a mantel. And then Jordan Love would check to whatever play that he wanted just based off that they do a lot of just like giving him some options pre-snap that he can use and I think against the Steelers defense that's going to be really valuable so they to me can just get to everything whereas with the Steelers there's not that many like mechanisms where I watch what they do that I'm like I'm scared of that like whereas I just like the Packers can kind of go to anything and so I just have a lot of faith that a competent quarterback against the Steelers offense is going to have a day I'm really curious what the Packers try to tap into because we've talked about this a lot.

32:18Like the Packers want to be a under center, run the ball, play action sort of team. Like they're not a team that wants to live in the drop back world. And they've had a lot of success approaching things that way. And I do think that's one way you can get after the Steelers. If you want to use a ton of motion, a ton of play action, just get the linebackers spinning over the course of the game. I think that's totally fine. I think that's a reasonable way to attack this team. But when I look back at what the Bengals game was, to me it's a very good expression of where the Steelers limitations on defense exist and this is overly simplifying it but I do think is actually kind of true at the end of the day if you give the Steelers front a chance to win the game and a chance to beat you they can if you don't give them that chance they have no shot defensively and it that's not just anecdotal like that is borne out in the numbers if you look at them so far this season on plays where the Steelers do not get pressure.

33:10They have the fifth worst defensive success rate in the league against the pass. On plays where they do get pressure, they have the sixth best success rate in the NFL and the sixth best EPA per drop back allowed. It's on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. And you watch what the Bengals were doing in that game, just immediately getting the ball out of Joe Flacco's hands and trying to take the Steelers front out of the game. And the Packers, like we said, they don't really live in that world. They actually have fewer quick dropbacks this season than any team in the NFL. They have 65 of them on throws of two and a half seconds or less per next gem.

33:46Some of that is that they've had a buy, right? And so they rank 30th in the percentage of those throws though. So this is not just a total volume thing. This is a frequency thing. They're one of the best teams in the league when they do that though. And so I wonder which of the two modes they want to tap into? Do we want to be this like tons of moving parts team where we're really making those linebackers work? Or if we can find quick one-on-one matchups against corners that are struggling right now and just an entire secondary we think is gettable and we try to take the front out of it, is that actually the best possible approach against the Steelers?

34:19So I'll be curious where they land between those two ideas. I'm kind of curious as well, because like I, they are really good when they're a true dropback team, but I also think that like that, for as good as I think Jordan Love is like that's just never like he's not like the Peyton Manning Dak Prescott style of quarterback like that's actually the funny thing if you look at EPA per drop back on drop backs of shotgun and no play action like those are your R3 step five step whatever it is type of passing game the Packers and the Cowboys basically have like the same EPA per drop back it's right it's like just above 0.2 the difference is the Cowboys have dropped back like that 70 more times.

34:58It's a way bigger part of their offense because Dak can clearly handle that. And I think Jordan Love can handle that, but I think it's more of like a up to a point thing. Whereas I think the value and like the real strength of this Packers offense is that they can get to every single thing. And so I think that they'll have enough answers in this game. Like I said, their screen game is great. I think they're running the ball fairly well and will be able to against this front in particular, especially with, you know, their offensive line, their capacity to move people, I think, waxes and wanes depending on the week.

35:27But they do such a good job with personnel and motion and pulling guards and stuff. And I just these linebackers are not going to have it in a game like this, I think. I also think that's another thing to point out when it comes to their approach in the pure dropback game. The offensive line, the component parts of it are not that good, right? If you're going to put Rasheed Walker in third and seven one on one situations against Nick Herbig and Alex Highsmith, it's probably a win for the Packers or probably a win for the Steelers. Packers don't do that, right? Like it's a scheme where you're really lifting the offensive line on a bunch of different levels.

35:56And so I think that's another thing to take into consideration here is that we think of the Packers as this team with really good offensive lines consistently. They do get the most out of those players, but individually, the Steelers front is a better group than the Packers offensive line is right now. So I think that's also just worth keeping in mind. I know you're not going to reinvent yourself completely in one week's time, but I don't know how you watch that Bengals game and not try to incorporate some of that into what you're trying to do. to the Steelers. It's kind of jarring to watch. I remember saying it on the Thursday recap show, but the middle of the field was just wide open on those short plays, like time and time again.

36:33I was curious, the Steelers lead the league in passing yardage given up over the middle of the field. Like that's been an issue for them throughout the season. Like we talked about it after the Seahawks game, the Bengals game is especially bad, but I'm trying to take advantage of that if I'm at LaFleur. It's a team that is just very predictable on that side of the ball. We've talked about it a bunch. The Steelers are a team that there's a rigidity to what they do, that you can manipulate them pretty easily. And we're talking about an offense that I think is very good at understanding how to manipulate the teams that they play against.

37:06And so I think that's at front of mind on that side of the ball. On the other side of the ball, number one thing you're watching for here, Derek, when the Steelers have the ball in this game against the Packers. I think on a very base level, the thing that I'm watching for is this is a Steelers team. All jokes aside with it, they really love to have tight ends on the field. They run 12 and 13 personnel more than just about anybody on over half of their plays. They have at least two tight ends on the field, and it's often three more than a lot of other teams. The Packers, conversely, are a really good team in some of these base looks and against 12 and 13 personnel.

37:39Against 12 and 13 personnel this season, the Packers have the sixth highest success rate. And so there were a couple of instances last week where like the Cardinals got a shot player or two against them. But on a down to down basis, they are a pretty good unit. They can play well against the run because of how well their pack their backers are playing the back end tackles well. And so, again, outside of one or two shot plays that they give up, which to the Steelers credit, like maybe they can get that like Aaron Rodgers, I think, is starting to find his connection with DK Metcalf down the field.

38:06So that's possible. But I just on a down to down basis, I don't know if they're going to get as much as they've been used to getting these past handful of weeks. I'd be curious to see what the Packers DB group looks like moving forward and whether or not they try to put Carrington Valentine back in one of those outside spots with the way that Nate Hobbs has been playing here over the last little while. Because I think that Valentine has always been somebody outside the numbers, I think can hold up in those situations. And so that those we talked about it, the explosives that the Packers gave up in that game, a couple of one on one scenarios outside the numbers against Nate Hobbs, and then a couple of those hole shots in cover too that are pretty high variance plays.

38:43And so I think if you can eliminate some of those explosives and the Packers have been, they've given up fewer explosive passes than any team in the NFL on a per rate basis. And so this isn't a problem, but I think a couple of tweaks personnel wise to even help even more in that area. I think I know Packers fans, this is in front of mind for them is like what the DB group personnel should look like based on some of the relative issues that they've had so far this season. The last other thing for me that jumped out to me while I watched the Packers' defense against the Cardinals, and I think it is particularly important in this game against the Steelers, the Steelers love to get the ball out of their hands, right?

39:18They are throwing the ball. Rodgers is getting rid of the ball as quickly as any quarterback in the league. It's a lot of underneath throws and then go balls. We just addressed the go ball part of it. The underneath throws, the Packers' defense tackles extremely well on the second and third level. And why I think this really sticks out is that there are so many teams that tackle like shit right now. And so when you watch a team that doesn't, it really jumps out to you, whether it's Evan Williams, the linebackers, like there is a real physicality on the second and third level with this team. So far this season, they are second in the league.

39:47The Packers are in yak per reception allowed per next gen stats, which is not surprising when you watch them like the anecdotally, it matches the numbers. The Steelers, they need to do work after the catch because of how that passing game operates. And so if you can limit that area of the offense specifically, and I do think the Packers are set up to do that, I think you put the Steelers in a pretty tough spot. That's such a good point. Because, yeah, just think, I mean, so many Steelers big plays. Like, you're just not running those, like, slow developing downfield routes. And even if you were going to, you're not going to want to do that in this game.

40:21And so limiting the eight yard DK Metcalf reception to eight to 12 yards instead of letting it become an explosive. I think that could have a huge impact on the Steelers offense. One more note here. It sounds like Christian Watson will be back this game coming back from IR. So I do think when you watch this team right now, especially without Jaden Reed, you do feel the lack of juice that they have at receiver. Like there are useful players here. There aren't that many explosive players here outside of Matthew Golden. and so being able to put one more guy on the field that can threaten you vertically that can create a little bit of space for you I'll be curious how different the different the offense feels with one more guy that has that level of giddy up to him it also does sound though that it sounds unlikely that Dontavian Wicks is going to play so I you know for how many receivers you feel good about that the Packers have I mean they're kind of they're testing the limits of their depth I I guess it's a good thing they've decided to hold on to all of them.

41:19One thing from several week eight matchups we wanted to dig into. We'll start with the Browns and the Patriots. Derek, you're one thing you're watching in Browns Patriots this weekend. Drake may. Unironically, it is obviously related to Drake may. I so this we all know the book with the Browns defense, like they are going to get after the quarterback and they're going to play a lot of man coverage. And so I think this is going to be, you know, the the the Patriots schedule has not been all that tough this year. Like I like Drake May stats look great and I think he's playing great, but he's also played a lot of not so good defenses.

41:54And this will be a really, really good defense that he's playing. And so obviously it's like, OK, is he built so far this season to beat what the Browns are doing? And so obviously I started looking at just pure man coverage. How's Drake May playing right now? Second in EPA per drop back and fourth in success rate. So pretty dang good. But then I was thinking, I was like, you know what? this Patriots offensive line is still very gettable. And this Cleveland defensive line, like, I don't know, outside of maybe Seattle and Houston might still be the best in the league with the way that Malik Collins is playing and the way that Miles Garrett is playing.

42:24So let me look up man coverage while under pressure. May's stats only dropped slightly to seventh in success rate and fifth in EPA per dropback. Like he is still the ball is coming out well. He's not getting sacked as much as you would think. He's not really turning the ball over. He's finding explosives like this is. in terms of quality of unit that he's going to play it's definitely going to be the toughest test but he is at least so far and against the units that he has played proven that this is not a mode of defense that is necessarily going to stop him I'll be curious what the Browns front versus the Patriots offensive line matchup looks like in this game I'm actually interested in watching like how Will Campbell holds up against Miles Garrett give me give me the Will Campbell Miles Garrett cut up right now like I just I obviously Will Campbell is a fascinating player we knew that coming in but he's kind of been what I expected him to be Derek where like you see some of the physical limitations, but like his ability to recover and to mirror guys and just his movement skills overall, like consistently remain impressive.

43:19He's a very similar player to the one I thought he would be coming out of college as we've watched him over the first seven weeks or so the interior, you can get after those guys a little bit, whether that's in one-on-one situations or with some twist stunts. I anticipate seeing a lot of that from the Browns defense. And I do think those matchups, I think pretty clearly in my mind favor the Browns based on what we have seen so far this season. Yeah, I think that's absolutely huge to bring up. Like Gary versus Campbell, I think it's more just like, yeah, it's like, let's see how that goes. How does he handle that?

43:48I'm pretty certain Malik Collins is going to have a day against this. He's playing well, man. I mean, Jared Wilson's been banged up, right? Like those guys have been in and out of the lineup this year. And so I think that's one area that it might be a pretty distinct advantage for the Browns. I do think like I'm not trying to slander my Tiger bro, Will Campbell. And he's been he's been good. but this is like when you talk about whether it's a good idea to draft an athlete like him in the top five matchups against miles garrett or what people pause like that's why people are like i don't know is this a good idea and like 14 weeks out of the year will campbell's a good enough player to to work around it and i'm not saying he's gonna get his ass kicked but like this is a this is a big challenge for a guy like him let's get to our next one here the giants and the eagles dave one thing you were looking for in Giants-Eagles this weekend?

44:36I don't think everybody agrees with me, but I love a quick rematch. I love when a division game happens, like, again, two weeks later, you know? Yeah. I just, here's why. Because, like, you know, some teams, you'll play a team in, like, week three, and then you don't see them again until December. You're an entirely different team at that point. You're an entirely different team. Like, you don't know what's going to change, what you're going to decide to do, who you're going to lose. These are the same teams. And we'll get to one important thing. Like the Eagles are healthier in a big way in this matchup, but you just saw these guys.

45:08And I'm so interested in what Vic Fangio does after his game plan against New York really did not unfold the way that he envisioned. And I loved Vic Fangio, by the way, like the exact opposite of a guy that I think is going to say something bold in a press conference. he said earlier this week one of his lessons learned from playing Jackson Dart the first time is that teams that need quarterbacks that bypass him are going to regret it that's that's a hell of a quote from a longtime defensive coordinator who's probably not trying to say anything too impressionable I wonder how much that is like you're just trying to pump up the guy you're about to play against thank you for saying that there's definitely a lot of gamesmanship in that I also think that there's something about Jackson Dart that I can understand why coaches and NFL people like love Jackson Dart, like the way that he the style that he plays with and the toughness and all that kind of stuff.

46:05Like football people, I get why there's like an infatuation with Jackson Dart. And there were coaches I talked to in the draft process that were like he aced every single part of the process. like he could not have done a better job in all of like the quiet intangible aspects of what you want your draft process to look like and so it's not surprising that people in the league look at jackson dart and i love by the way sean payton last week sean payton saying that jackson dart like gave him a questionable comment the other part about this is and obviously there's that's totally loaded with sean payton shitting on russell wilson how many quarterbacks is sean Payton going to talk about, oh yeah, I love that guy in the process.

46:44Like I knew that guy was going to be good. He's done it with how many guys? Like he did it with Mahomes. Like it feels like we're going to find out that Sean Payton liked every quarterback that ends up being good after they end up being good. And then drafted one who is not good. There's a lot. I was curious, like how long this is going to go on. And so this is my question to you, Derek, about Jackson Dart. And Maybe you're the wrong person to ask, but I want to know that the affinity that the that this community seems to have for him because of all the things that we've just talked about and how good he actually is currently a quarterback and how good we think he's going to be.

47:20I'm not sure how I square those two things right now. Like, I'm still not sure how much faith, long term faith I have in Jackson Dart being a good NFL quarterback. I think he's fun. I think he's exciting. I think he has given this team a shot in the arm they absolutely needed. You see it and you feel it on multiple different levels. But down to down, I'm curious like what you have seen from him and what you think it means for the near term future and this game specifically. I have two answers. My like heart of hearts answers is I just don't like watching the way that he plays right now. Like I just it bothers me like just how he handles the pocket.

47:58I think he's not necessarily manic. it's yes it's very manic and it's very like his drop back game i think really struggles right now like there's just something that like i don't think he's that good right now it's not honorable is it derek i think it kind of is honorable it's just a little bit frantic it's it's very frantic like he's he's trying to do cool stuff and that's actually what i'm gonna say like my more pragmatic answer is that even though i don't think he's very good right now i will say his capacity to just do shit, which I've said before, and like be an athlete, make some plays outside of the pocket.

48:31He's actually better at getting the ball out against the blitz like quickly, which I'll talk about in a minute than I would have thought. So like there are parts of his game that even if he's not good overall right now, he's doing enough of the like stuff that would warrant keeping him on the field to see if he can learn to do the smart put together quarterback stuff later. Even if, again, I don't think he's there right now. How I think this kind of relates to this game specifically, Dave kind of mentioned it last time the Eagles played the Giants, they were blitzing him a lot, which one Vic Fangio doesn't do, but also like teams have just struggled to do against Jackson Dart, actually, like he has right now when blitzed and makes the throw from the pocket, he has a 56.1 percent drop back success rate, which is the second best in the league.

49:15The flip side of that is when he is not blitzed and teams keep all their guys in coverage and he still has to make a throw from the pocket his success rate drops to 36.7 percent which I think like he actually weirdly like when he gets blitzed he has a good answer for it when you keep bodies in coverage and ask him to hold on to the ball that's when you get the manic kind of frantic I don't know what to do yet type of stuff which that to me is what Vic Fangio's defense is supposed to be anyway so I would expect them to actually go back to that well that was that was the crazy thing about the first game is it felt like it just it felt like the Eagles weren't taking this seriously in the first game like just when you look at what they did and understandably so I guess I mean it's a rookie quarterback obviously they didn't Malik neighbors was hurt by that point so the Giants receiver receiving cores nothing to write home about the Eagles ran 62 percent man coverage against the Giants in that game wild it's only it's only one it's one of three games in the NFL where a defense ran 60 plus percent man.

50:18And also it's the only game this year where the Eagles have run a majority of man at all. Like they're typically running like 30 % man coverage. So to just like completely flip their tendencies on top of blitzing as much as they did. And I would guess they probably blitzed because they didn't have Jalen Carter in that game, but blitzing the shit out of a guy and running a shitload of man is like the ultimate you. We don't think you can do anything against us game plan, in my opinion. And Jackson Dart was totally up to the challenge. And I think it's worth mentioning too, they lost Quinion Mitchell in that game and it didn't stop them from playing that way.

50:56Like it honestly might convince you to play that way more because it's just like, all right, you, we have backup corners in the game. That's your guy. You don't have to worry about it. Like continuity matters less when you're playing that much man coverage. There are teams when they're banged up, that's what they'll do because of it. But I think that's not the way the Eagles really want to play. And even if Quignon Mitchell is going to play in this game, which he is, that still leaves that huge gaping hole at that other outside corner spot that has existed for the entirety of the season at this point.

51:23I also think it's worth mentioning Andrew Makuba had his worst game as a pro that night. So, you know, maybe that game's different if he doesn't miss a tackle that leads to a busted touchdown. He played really well against the Vikings last week. So with Quignon back, with Jalen Carter back, I think the game plan is going to be a lot different. And I think at least the Eagles will be more successful this time around. And the Jalen Carter being back thing is huge to me because one of the strangest things about watching that game a couple weeks ago is watching a Giants team push around an Eagles team.

51:55Like, obviously, without Jalen Carter, it accentuates this. But even with Jalen Carter in the lineup, I think you can make an argument, Derek, that right now on the ground, the Giants offensive line is as good or better at running the football than the Eagles front seven is at stopping the run, which is kind of a disorienting place to have landed. It is a crazy thing. I also like I think it's everything. I don't think it's just the five offensive linemen versus the four or five, however many defensive linemen for the Eagles. Like I do think it is Eagles like a lot of their two high structures in the Giants, the quarterback and also Theo Johnson, like kind of kicks ass as a blocker.

52:34Like, But it really is like it's all accumulated to something that I don't know. This is like two times better than I thought the Giants run game and like offensive line collective unit was going to be able to look this year. And it also helps it like Andrew Thomas. Incredible. Like it's just like they it's it's come together in a much better way than I really would have thought for them. Can I leave you all with a stat? You sure can. The Eagles are Eagles opponents are generating minus one EPA when they target Quinone Mitchell this year. when they target whoever's playing cornerback to does not matter which guy they're generating 18 points of epa something something to watch i guess it is very easy to understand like why the eagles defense is the way that it is right now they have not enough depth up front they play in a lot of those light boxes it's going to be hard for them to stop the run and their second cornerback is just a complete black hole and has been for the entire season like it's not difficult to understand and why we've arrived in this point with the Eagles.

53:32Before we move on, let's take one more quick break.

53:38Let's get to our next one here, the Bears and the Ravens. My one thing I'm watching in this game is just, what does the Ravens offense look like with Lamar Jackson back? You know, we've talked about this. The Ravens remain at the table despite being 1-5 this season, which is still crazy to me. I get why it's happening. I get why they're still there. It's not crazy to me. But it is still crazy that they are still at the table as a team like the Seahawks plays the way that it does. I've given you this because I think you're right. And it makes me uneasy, but I can understand why we've landed here.

54:07At some point, the run needs to begin. And it needs to begin now that they've come out of the bye. And so what does this offense look like with Lamar back? I think we've attributed a lot of the Ravens' struggles this season to Lamar being hurt. But they were struggling on offense relatively before Lamar got hurt. And I think there was this kind of unsettled feeling, Derek, to the Ravens' offense overall. They didn't have the run game that they could consistently rely on. We've talked about this a lot. They just have not been the team on the ground that they were last year in terms of down-to-down efficiency.

54:38The offensive line just has not played at quite the same level. They have not played at quite the same level in pass protection. And I think that's led to a more frantic feel to the passing game overall. And I think defenses have only turned up the volume on that by the way they're playing against this team. No quarterback in the NFL has been blitz more often this year. No team, no quarterback in the NFL has faced more man coverage this year than Lamar Jackson. And I think you have felt what that has done to the Ravens offense at their best last year. The Ravens were a team that saw a shitload of zone coverage because teams are terrified of Lamar running.

55:11That was just kind of how teams played against them last year. And think about how many moments you can just imagine of Lamar sitting there bouncing in the pocket, hanging out of the ball, waiting for a window to come open against zone, hitting Zay Flowers on a cross over the middle of the field and being a 35-yard gain. Like that is the most dangerous version of the Ravens. Teams have not allowed them to play that way this year. And I think that it has sent them into a place where they're just not very comfortable. Can the Bears defense, which has been a little bit better over the last couple of weeks, do that to a Ravens offense, even with Lamar Jackson back?

55:44Because if they can, then I think that we need to have a conversation about what the realistic expectations are for this Ravens team, even as they get a little bit healthier. I I'm honestly a little bit worried about their capacity to like make this run because again like you mentioned like they the offense was very up and down for a lot of the even when Lamar Jackson was healthy like it was they were kind of subsisting on him being an absolute superstar and there's of course a chance that he can still do that for the rest of the season but I am a little bit worried about him being a little bit banged up playing against now an offensive line that pretty much for the entirety of Lamar Jackson's career, whenever this offense is not working, it's because teams feel like they can blitz the shit out of the offensive line.

56:26Like they are always playing on the razor's edge of like our offensive line is just good enough for teams to not feel like they can do that to us. And then whenever it flip flops back to the other side, which I think it has this year, that's when you start to feel a lot of the herky jerkiness with the offense. So I think you couple that on top of, again, the run game still not looking great. Lamar Jackson's going to potentially be a little bit hobbled. I just I don't know if this Bears defense is necessarily like an elite enough unit and really a blitz heavy enough unit to really tap into that.

56:54But I am like worried about that as an overall issue for the Ravens, I would say. I want to couch my comments because like they're in a one in five hole, right? I mean, that's hard for anybody to dig out of. It doesn't matter what the schedule looks like or anything like that. Like they might not be able to pull this off. I just want to say, it's been a month since we've even seen the Lamar Jackson Ravens play football. And that's kind of what I mean. The last time we saw them play football, it was incredibly underwhelming in that game against the Chiefs. It might be underwhelming relative to what we expect from the Ravens, but they scored an opening drive touchdown.

57:29They threw an interception in the red zone like they were moving the ball. They had 10 points at half and then you lose Lamar Jackson. And I think the snowball effect of bad vibes has outpaced what the Ravens actually were when Lamar got hurt. Oh, see, I disagree. And I think it's easy to conflate what they've looked like without Lamar with what we actually saw. I'll tell you this right now. It's not easy for me to conflate that because I have not watched the Ravens play offense without Lamar Jackson. It's not about the struggles over the last couple of weeks. I've ejected that from my mind. And this is about me watching that Lions game and the Chiefs game and watching what the Ravens offense felt like in that game.

58:10The run game has been a problem all year, right? We know this. It has not been what we're used to seeing with the Ravens. But watching them just feel like they were being dictated to in the Lions and Chiefs games. What Calvin Shepard and Steve Spagnuolo were doing to the Ravens offense in that game, they were on the front foot so often. And even the Lions game, the Ravens were moving the ball. They had some chunk plays. They had some explosives. But Derek, think back to some of those moments. Even those plays were deeper in the down. They were out of structure. The Ravens last year, the Ravens at their best, always felt like they were in complete command of the game when they were on offense.

58:48They were the ones dictating the terms of how that side of the ball was going to feel. And they just haven't done that this year, even when Lamar has been in the game. I would counter that by saying, and I said this to you on the show where we put teams into tears, all, not all, excuse me, three of the four games that the Ravens have played with Lamar were against the elite of the elite in the NFL. The Bills, the Browns, the Lions, and the Chiefs. I mean, that's, and we've seen what the Lions have been doing on defense basically since the Packers game. I mean, their practice squad just put Baker Mayfield in the torture chamber.

59:23So I'm just, I'm just saying I'm not ready to panic about the Ravens. And I think they will be playing a step down in competition over the next month than what we saw when Lamar was healthy. And unfortunately, I think that includes this Sunday because the Bears defense is not a great group, period. And now you're missing Tyreek Stevenson, most likely, which if we're down to your third and fourth outside corners in this game against the Ravens, I think you're going to struggle to play the amount of man coverage you probably want to, considering how we've seen teams succeed against the Ravens so far this year.

59:58I do think that we've watched the Bears over the last two weeks be willing to bring pressure in a couple different ways. They blitzed a lot against Washington, just like straight blitzing. And then against the Saints, they used a lot. They still were sending extra bodies at the quarterback, but they were also using a lot of simulators while they were bringing DBs. And so what I'm worried about with that is, I think that there were still explosives to be had in some of those zone coverages when they were using those simulated against the Saints. The Jaquan Brisker sack is a perfect example of this.

1:00:28brisker comes off the left edge spencer rattler has a guy wide open running down the left side line and just refuses to throw the ball and he hangs out to it for one beat too long brisker it's a sack drive killing play that's not going to happen against lamar jackson and so i think some of the things that the bears were able to do over the last couple weeks are not going to work against the ravens and so i do think if we're trying to make an argument for the ravens kind of kick-starting things and getting back into it the bears are maybe the defense that they can do that I guess I just think it's wild that Lamar Jackson being presumed we're presuming he's going to play he's limited in practice but he's practiced he's playing their touchdown favorites over this Bears team which like even if you're not sold on the Bears that's that seems like a lot to me because this Ravens team does have flaws the Ravens couldn't have have been terrible against the run the Bears have found their run game over the last couple of weeks like I'm not surprised the Ravens are favored at home, but a six and a half point spread, basically just because Lamar Jackson's going to play.

1:01:29I mean, that is, that gives you an idea of how people view Lamar Jackson, rightfully so. They're much healthier on defense too. I think that's a big part of it. Yeah, Rookworth Smith is coming back. Rookworth Smith is going to be back. She'll be a woozy as healthy again. And so I do think that that plays into it, but I'll be curious to see what the plan is from Dennis Allen, because this is a team that will play a lot of man coverage. They will blitz if the situation calls for it. And I do think that's what the Ravens performance so far this season will tell you you should do against them. Last one here, Derek, Bills and Panthers.

1:01:58One thing you're watching for in Bills Panthers this weekend. We've got defense that I absolutely despise, and we've got rushing offense that like, they're not the best in the league, but they're kind of quietly one of the ones I like to tap into every week whenever I can. And I also think it's just a bad stylistic matchup. I think against some of these more finessey run teams, I think the Bills can have OK moments and they can be fine because they are more of a speed oriented. We can run type of team against these teams like the Panthers, where they want to run gap scheme. They want to get, you know, one of their guards pulling out to the perimeter.

1:02:35They want to use they want to get tight ends on the field and really like mash you that way and run a bunch of power. This builds the second level of the defense and the third level of the defense are just not built to be physical football players right now. And so I think that this is kind of like the perfect matchup for the Panthers offense to just move the ball four, five, six, seven yards at a time and really kind of muck this game up, control the ball. And the reason I think that that is more important than I would have thought maybe even three weeks ago is like the Panthers defense isn't that bad.

1:03:07And like they can I don't think this is a game where the Bills are going to score 38 points the way I might have thought about this Panthers defense a month ago. And so I think if they can control the ball a little bit, it's like this will be an uglier, tighter game than we might have thought. Panthers offense right now is seventh in rushing DVOA so far this season. You feel that when you watch them. They missed Damian Lewis last week. And there have been guys in and out of the lineup for them up front the entire year. Right. Like that game they had against the Cowboys. They had three backups in that Yashin was playing center for Taylor Moten.

1:03:35And they still were able to just absolutely dust Dallas. But I think Jamie and Damian Lewis, we're talking about what makes this Panthers run game as dangerous as it is. is the physicality that they have on the interior, even with some of the backups in there. Like, I think that Cade Mays has been playing really well for them at center. And so not having Damian Lewis, I think you're going to feel that. He's back this week. Them being able to run the ball this way with the line, even with Robert Hunt being hurt, even with Austin Corbin being hurt over a good chunk of the year, and the defense going from historically bad to average, which it has so far, these were kind of some of the component parts that made up, like, my quiet Panthers optimism coming into the year.

1:04:13The one thing that hasn't happened that I thought would be part of that formula is Bryce Young playing well. And so the fact that Bryce Young is not playing in this game and it doesn't really change how I feel about the Panthers' ability to hang with the Bills, you can only go so far in being excited about the Panthers if that is a data point in the conversation. That is true, and especially since two of the three members of this show are Bryce Young fans. but this is a matchup worth highlighting because it's not every week in the NFL that your backup quarterback's going to start and it doesn't really change how I feel about your chances.

1:04:50Like the Panthers with Andy Dalton are just as likely to win this game as the Panthers with Bryce Young. I don't think there's that huge of a drop off. And I think that's not where you want to be. It's not where you want to be at all. That's not where you want to be eight weeks into the season. I think there are a lot of reasons to be optimistic and excited about some of the things the Panthers are doing. Like they feel like a big boy football team right now in a way that we wanted them to coming into the year and a way that we were a little bit worried about three or four weeks into the season.

1:05:13We had that entire conversation about like, it was supposed to be better than this, right? It was supposed to be better than like a bottom five-ish offense. And in a lot of ways, they have realized that. If your quarterback's not the driving factor in that, it's a little less exciting. There's like a little bit of a limiter on like how excited you can get about this team, yes. I, for this year specifically, yes. I do think though almost, you know, this is a conversation. We don't even know how we're going to feel about this team in eight weeks. but like that's already moving on from Bryce Young this offseason I am I'm coming I just this kind of freeing if they can go into the offseason and they let's say they finish the season like eight and nine nine and eight given how the defense is played given what the offensive line looks like you clearly have a star receiver in a Tedaroa McMillan like that's a pretty good spot if you can find your Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield whoever or just draft the guy whoever it's supposed to be I don't know if you can say freeing is the word for a quarterback that you traded a shitload of assets to move up and take number one overall.

1:06:07It makes the decision easier. I get your point. It's good to have an answer to the question for better or for worse. It's October 23rd. We don't have to throw dirt on Bryce. We're on October 23rd. We can save this for a little bit deeper into the season. I refuse. I refuse. It's time to spend a little bit of time on Sicko Street each week. We like picking out a matchup that may not look the best on paper, but we're going to try to give you a reason to watch this thing. Dave, you wanted to dig into Joe Flacco and the Bengals against the Jets defense this weekend. I think it's just exciting to have intrigue in the Bengals for the first time since, and I pulled up the date since September 21st.

1:06:47That's when I'd say September 21st at about 1215 is like when Jake Browning had his first turnover against the Vikings and you were like, ah, shit, this isn't, they're not going to get lightning in a bottle twice, are they? And for a month, the Bengals were just a bummer. Like, there's nothing more depressing than wasted potential. And the idea of watching Jamar Chase and T. Higgins do cardio for 15 weeks with nothing to show for it was really depressing. And then last Thursday, we get hope. Like, even if the Bengals aren't some great team, like, sign me up for what we got from the Joe Flacco Bengals.

1:07:26It's all I wanted. Every week. Sign me up for that every single week. So it's just a breath of fresh air to see the Bengals logo on my scoreboard while I'm looking through the games and just be like, oh, maybe we'll get to see something cool from them. Because I didn't feel like we would get that at any point in the year after Joe Burrow went down. That's why I was very OK with the Joe Flacco trade and was supportive of it, because even if Joe Flacco is 40 year old Joe Flacco at this point, like, you know what you're getting from 40 year old Joe Flacco. Joe Flacco could still throw the shit out of the ball.

1:07:57Like I knew that he could still get the ball to these guys in a way that Jake Browning could not. Derek and I did the Bengals two straight weeks on the hangover while Jake Browning was playing quarterback. And I watched a lot of Bengals football while Jake Browning was playing quarterback. We watched the Viking. We did the Vikings game and the Lions game and back to back weeks. And so after we got to the end of that Lions game, it was just one of those things where I think you and I very matter of factly, Derek was like, what? You just can't keep doing this. like not even trying to be like mean or overly reactionary.

1:08:26It was like, you just, you can't keep doing this. Like it's just not going to be okay. Yeah. It was a literally like, this is unacceptable. When you have the players that you have on offense, this is an unacceptable mode to operate. And so, yeah, I was fine with the Joe Flacco trade, like go and get anybody out there. And like selfishly, it's just like to have a reason to tune into, in my mind, the best receiver in football every week. Whereas when Jake Browning was out there, that was just not the case. even if it's not the sexiest thing all the time it's that's enough for me i also really love how joe flacco's 40 which in nfl player years is like 85 and we treat him that way now we're like people come to joe flacco like he's the hermit on top of the mountain who like please tell us the meaning of life like tell like help us unlock life's mysteries it's like joe flacco was he was talking a couple weeks ago about like why he's even still playing and he had like all this great perspective to offer.

1:09:21And this week he's talking about the simple joy of having dinner alone at a bar, which is just resonated with me on a spiritual level. I mean, we are elder millennials in the same way that Joe Flacco is like, I am cruising toward 40 and I cannot describe to you how much I enjoy Walt. And he's like perpetually on the road right now. He's like living in a hotel. Like that's just the nature of Joe Flacco's life. And so he's on a work trip in perpetuity. I cannot describe to you the joy of being on a work trip and like eating a quiet meal alone and having like that quiet moment by yourself. I could not have agreed or related more to what he said when he was going through that.

1:09:59Eating an early dinner at a bar with like the athletic football show playing in my AirPods at like a low enough volume where I can hear it, but I can still talk to somebody if they say something to me. And there's like sports on TV. That is my idea of heaven. Like that's typically what I want to be doing. Derek, you'll get there. I'll give you like 10 years. You'll be there. I've dabbled. I enjoy the quiet night alone. Just having my dinner. And if that's not sick enough for you, you know, the Jets owner called his starting, presumed starting quarterback a bum this week. It's incredible. And then no one communicated that to the quarterback before he did his media availability, which seems like a mistake on multiple fronts.

1:10:41If I had told you on August 15th that we would be a week before Halloween. The last time we saw Joe Burrow, he was in a walking boot on the Bengals' sideline. And the Bengals' vibes were like 10 times better than the Jets. Would you be surprised by that? Or do you think that's just a commentary about the New York Jets? I would just say like, yeah, that's Jets football. That's brutal. Like the idea that Joe Burrow is essentially out for the season and that we feel there's a fun and excitement and like an irreverence around the Bengals right now. And the sky is falling with the Jets. That's a tough place to be, man.

1:11:21That's a great point too. Like even in the course of a bad year, like you're going to find good vibes somewhere. Like the Tommy DeVito Giants, you know, like you're going to find good vibes from something unless maybe you're the New York Jets and then it just escapes you forever. Wanted to hit a tank tribunal this week before we got to what we want to know from week eight. There were a couple of games on the slate that I was trying to figure out, like, how do we want to talk about these teams and how do we want to get into these games? And even before we had that conversation on Tuesday, I've been thinking a lot about the Texans and the commanders.

1:11:57And so this is the take I wanted to try on for you guys and see what you thought about it. When I watch the Texans right now and I watch the state of their offensive line, it's just unacceptable. Like when you go back and think about what their plan was for building that unit, the way that they approached it is unacceptable. Like you're at a point where it completely torpedoed your season last year. You have kind of a blank slate of how you're going to do this. You show not nearly enough urgency in how you built this group. You draft out or out to air three in the second round. You get multiple cast off players from bad offensive lines over the last couple of years.

1:12:34Guys like Ed Ingram and Lake and Tomlinson. Tedious Howard is fine, right? Like Tedious Howard is what he is. Jake Andrews, their center is like somebody who never really played in the NFL before. He was like a back of the roster guy, walks into the season as their starting center. And the entire offseason, the Texans and their brass were like, oh, it was fine. Nick Casario said to that group of season ticket holders at that event, it's like, we're not worried about the offensive line, so you shouldn't be either. Well, maybe you should have been. And so that has kind of been on my mind as I've thought about the Texans and their approach this offseason.

1:13:03And then you go to the other side of the Laramie Tunsil trade, and you think about where Washington is right now. Laramie Tunsil has been great for the Commanders. He's a very, very good player. I don't think this is about Laramie Tunsil. I think this is about the mindset that leads to the Laramie Tunsil trade. Washington last year feels like it's close after the season that they had. They trade for Marshawn Lattimore in the middle of the year. They trade for Laramie Tunsil this offseason. They go out and get Deebo Samuel. They right now, by snap-weighted age, I think a month into the season, we're the second oldest team in the league.

1:13:33The Steelers were number one. Part of that is the heavy lifting a 41-year-old quarterback does for your numbers. So as I think about where Washington is with their season kind of on life support and where the Texans are coming off of one of the grossest performances we can remember on Monday, the place that I land is the Laramie Tunsil trade was a mistake for two teams. Like usually we have a defined loser of a trade. I think that in this case, neither one of those teams should have made that deal because both of them were misjudging where they actually were in the process. which it's easier for me to get there with Houston.

1:14:08I think again, it's the mindset. Sure, sure, sure. Is the thing that was wrong. I think there's like little nuance to this. At least, at least the commanders. Got a good player. I get your point and we can get into it. Like Tunsil's allowed 10 pressures in one sack this year. Like Laramie Tunsil is playing good football. So immediately I don't understand this and I didn't understand it in the moment from the Texans. And you hear enough chatter coming out of Houston that it was a culture thing and maybe Laramie Tunsil's not a good enough leader. You know how much bullshit NFL teams put up with if you're good at football?

1:14:43Yes. That's line one, man. NFL teams will put up with some heinous stuff if you are good at football. And so for the idea that Laramie Tunsil, even if last year was a little bit of a down year, the idea that it needed to happen unless there's just something that nobody knows about, that nobody has uncovered about Laramie Tunsil, It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And the fact that the Texans torpedoed CJ Stroud's development because they didn't think Laramie Tunsil was a good enough leader or presence in the locker room is we're not talking enough about how batshit insane that is. You know what else is kind of damaging to team culture and just the vibes losing getting the shit kicked out of you all the time?

1:15:27That's a problem. And you aren't in a position if you're the Texans to ship off really good players because they're like mildly damaging to whatever your team culture is when you don't have an actual plan to replace them. And the cherry on top of all of this, they signed Cam Robinson this offseason to presumably be like a stopgap for them at left tackle. They end up trading him. They're eating nine million dollars combined over the next two years because of the deal that they gave Cam Robinson. And just on every single front, this has been a complete and utter disaster. And for Washington, again, I think Laramie Tunsil has been really good for them.

1:16:04It's not that the Laramie Tunsil trade was bad for Washington. I think it's just they misjudged where they were. And I think I wonder how much that's going to matter here over the next couple of years. The deal I actually have a problem with in retrospect, and I think speaks more to this than the Tunsil trade, is what they did with Marshawn Lattimore. That was the beginning of it, right? That was the beginning of it. And so they trade, they missed out on third and fourth round picks in this year's draft because of Marshawn Lattimore. They're going to miss out on second and fourth round picks in next year's draft because of the Laramie Tunsil trade.

1:16:36And they are one of the oldest rosters in the league now, right? Like they have a lot of free agent money. They have not like gone all way in, in a way that's really going to hamstring them. But I still think that some of the decisions that they've made over the last calendar year speaks to a timeline that they were never really on. And I think we're realizing that right now. They've gotten some bad breaks. They've been unlucky this year in ways they weren't last year, but that's the NFL. Like you have to account for stuff like that while thinking about all of the different versions of the outcomes.

1:17:07And I think in their minds, it was like, well, we were going to the NFC championship game last year. If we get better at this and this and this spot, we can get ourselves over the top. And it just so rarely works that way. For the most part, you're always better off being more measured in what you think those goals should look like. and so that's why I think the Tunsil trade was interesting in that like I on a base level you get how bringing in Devo Samuel and Laramie Tunsil is supposed to make you a better offense right I support it in the moment I want to be clear about this I like teams going for it there's a reason I'm not an NFL general manager yeah and like having young quarterback who is pretty good let's go protect him which again that's insane why the Texans traded away their guy but like to me the thing with the Tunsil trade was like, OK, Washington's offense was, I think, by like points per game, like third in the league or something last year.

1:17:56Realistically, it's hard to be better than that. And they also got there by virtue of kind of being lucky with some of their deep ball stuff and by some of what they were doing with fourth down. And so I think at some point I made the argument when they traded for Tunsil and even Debo, it was like, OK, on paper, it looks better. But because of some of the luck stuff, this will probably just bring them around to like the same level where they're a top five offense, which is great. But if that if you're going to be the same offense you were last year and then all the bets you made on defense are not going to make you any better any sort of bad luck you get on the other way which they have with some of their injury stuff this year close games that's how you end up kind of being the same quality of team to me like I don't think they're a worse roster than they were last year it's just the stuff is kind of swinging the other way and that's how you get here when you're a nine and seven team and the stuff goes against you versus going for you the way it did last year that's that's how you get some of these swings for teams and if you were going to end up in the same place anyway not having four mid-round picks over the last two drafts is a tough place to land.

1:18:52I know he's not lighting the world on fire, but I wonder if the commanders knew then that Josh Connerly would fall to them at pick 29 in the first round, would they have still felt the urgency to do the Laramie Tunsil trade? Because Connerly was a college left tackle. So, I mean, they moved him because Laramie Tunsil was there. He's playing on the right side. And you're talking about a 21-year year old guy that you draft in the first round to come in with your young quarterback and could conceivably be a cornerstone and still could be just on at a different position, but could be your cornerstone left tackle versus a guy that just turned 31 has a year.

1:19:32He's got the rest of this season and one more year after that left on his deal before he needs a new one. I think Laramie Tunsil is still paying, playing at a level where you're like, he's going to command top dollar. This is also a guy that's been doing three year deals for like two, two deals now. So a guy that knows how to play the business of football very well that just sounds harder and more expensive than if you had just drafted connerly and now you're on the typical first round pick timeline and you would still have andrew wiley on the right side so i just i wonder if they would do it the same way if they knew what would be available to them in the draft but yeah between that between what you're losing in the tunsell trade and then the latimore one is way worse because at least tunsell is a good player right again i think this speaks more to like the danger in the mindset than it does to the quality of the Tunsil trade.

1:20:18I think the Tunsil trade ultimately is probably going to be a good thing for the overall quality of Washington's roster. I think this is just one of those scenarios where when you do this kind of thing and you try to speed things up, there is downside that comes along with it. And I think they have realized some of that downside in the last year. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, even if you still wind up doing the Debo trade, which I think Debo got to Washington with the fifth that the Saints send them, but you could do that trade without the fifth that you got from the saints, obviously. So you're, I mean, you're talking about the difference between four or five young cost controlled players that could help you out versus a couple of big swings.

1:20:56And Debo's, Debo's been pretty good for them. He missed last week, but like Debo's been fine. Again, I'm not, I'm not crushing them for any of this stuff. Like I get why they do it. And I think for the most part, outside of Latimore, the players have been okay. I think now you're just in a spot where it's like, okay, we didn't do it this year. What does this mean for how we have to reevaluate the way that we're going to build things next year now without two of those picks. Yeah. Let's finish things off with what we want to know coming out of week eight. Dave, kick us off. What do you want to know after these weeks games are over?

1:21:26My spidey senses are tingling and it pertains to the Cowboys who we already talked about, but this is a really fascinating weekend because I think optimism is starting to creep back in with the Cowboys? I mean, between recent history and the Micah Parsons trade, I think people have been as down on them as possible. And all of a sudden, you're sitting here almost halfway through the season and they're an intriguing, exciting team. But do they have enough? And I mean, I think the answer right now is no. And so what I want to know is, can the Cowboys show enough to force the front office's hand that, hey, this is something that we got going here, something potentially special.

1:22:08And I know the news cycle this week was all about Max Crosby. Like, oh, go use one of those ones that you got in the Parsons trade to get Max Crosby. I don't even know if the Cowboys need to do something that drastic, but you have resources at your disposal. Even if you don't want to touch the two, the ones that you got from Green Bay, you have draft picks that you could use. I think this team could use help at linebacker. I think this team name a position on the defensive line, it would probably help. Obviously the secondary He's been a mess all year. Like even if you were going out looking for a Logan Wilson or a Bradley Chubb or a Jalen Phillips, Demario Davis.

1:22:46What like what's he got? You know, what's he does he want to finish this year out for the Saints or go try to be part of a playoff run like you could do like this team could have a higher ceiling with one or two more pieces. It doesn't have to be anything major and putting on a good performance, maybe beating this Denver team specifically. Like if this offense just dunks on the Broncos, I think that that would make the Cowboys have to very much consider what they want to do before the trade deadline. When your offense is playing at this level, we know how volatile defense is. We know that it can improve over the course of the year.

1:23:19Like one or two things go a little bit differently for Dallas. And they go from being the 31st ranked defense in the NFL to the 22nd ranked defense in the NFL. And you can sneak into the playoffs. That team gets interesting. Like the offense is the harder thing to solve and they have for the most part solved it. And so I think you can get to a place where you can justify that level of aggressiveness on like a very tempered level, right? Like you deal like a five or a six to go get one of those players. I think they would be silly to do something that would require like a first round pick. But if you could add an interesting piece or two to this team using, yeah, preferably like day three picks, even like if there was somebody out there to be gotten for a two, like I would absolutely be interested in that knowing that they have two extra first round picks.

1:24:06Now we're at a point where we just had the Washington conversation. Like I think how many of those deals actually work? Like I would love to see the history on them. For every Von Miller trade, how many Amari Cooper trades from last year are there? Okay. But I think it would be silly if the Cowboys spent the one, but the initial Amari Cooper trade worked gangbusters. Like it was great. Yeah. But that's like a multi-year thing where he's on the team for like several seasons. Oh, if you were, if you're using like a second round pick, I would hope it's a guy that's got a future beyond like this season.

1:24:37Okay. All right. That makes more sense. Okay. Yes. That, that part of it I think is okay. But like for a stop gap, like pending free agent, that would be tough for me. I would have, I would want whatever type of move they were to make to be tempered, to be rational for sure. Speaking of being rational. What I want to know coming out of week eight is, is week eight, right? Yes. What I want to know coming out of week eight is how invested should I be in the Chicago Bears? Right. I'm, I'm invested in the sense that like, you know, obviously you're, you're living and dying with every single game. You're watching every single game.

1:25:11It's been really fun these last couple of weeks, like watching the run game really click into place has been so enjoyable. The defense has played better over the last couple of weeks coming out of the buy. They've shown progress in some of the areas you want. Beating Washington, the Washington win is really nice. Beating the Saints is kind of whatever. You beat the Ravens now as six and a half point dogs in Baltimore, and you're at five and two, the conversation starts to change a little bit, right? This goes from being a like, hey, this is kind of fun to like a, wait a second, what's going on here?

1:25:44And so I'm just curious on that spectrum where I should be landing after this Bears game ends on Sunday. And they kind of need this one, too, because like the back end of their schedule is pretty tough. Like by week 13, they get Philly. The next month is bad, though. They don't they play a bad team in the next like three or four weeks. That's what I'm saying is like if so, if they can beat Baltimore here and then after that, they get Cincinnati, they get New York and then they get Minnesota, which I know Minnesota's defense is great. But like Lord knows what they're doing at quarterback. And then you get Pittsburgh after that.

1:26:14so if you can beat the ravens and then that's actually better than i thought it was yeah presumably grab like three not presumably they're they're not like an elite team that has earned this but if you can win three of those other games then you really only got to win one or the two of those tough ones at the end to get into the playoffs potentially like that's the the swing that this ravens game will give them in terms of the way their schedule is set up it's pretty huge i love the positions this job puts you in because people often ask me like oh who do you root for We're like, are you a Saints fan?

1:26:43Like, do you root for the Cowboys because you covered them for so long? I root to look smart. And so the position this is going to put me in is like, I want the Ravens to make my belief in them look smart. And so I find myself, I'm going to be up here on Sunday rooting for Baltimore in a game that all of you Bears fans very much want to see them win. So that's not where I expected to be when the season started. No, I didn't expect to be here either. And so now I'm trying to figure out where I want to land. Derek what do you want to know coming out of week eight I want to know how Kyle Shanahan is going to wiggle his way out of this one because the the Niners have gotten away with a lot of wins this year and they've they've pieced together they've pieced it all together with just like bubble gum and toothpicks and all this stuff with all these guys who have been injured and they are now playing what is by my estimation probably the toughest defenses that they've played like Houston's pass rush is insane their secondary is playing really well they are especially on passing downs maybe still the best defense in the league and they are actually believe it or not given their records and given what we just saw Houston's offense do uh the other night Houston is favored to win this game by a point and that's wild it is wild right like I'm not surprised by it like when you actually think about it but it's still just when you consider like what the game the Niners are coming off like on Sunday night football and then what the Texans look like on Monday night football and just how visible those two performances were and you just snap back to reality of the Texans being favored in a game like this.

1:28:11It is pretty crazy. There's some whiplash there. It's just like, I just, I honestly don't know how it's going to go because I think if you like stacked each side of the ball, like the four units, Houston's offense or Houston's defense is way above the rest. But then I think the two Niners units are in the middle and then way below the rest, you have the Texans offense. So it's just a very volatile, like I get how this could be crazy, but I don't know. I love, you know, we talked about it the other week, seeing some of these play callers when they're backed into a corner, whether it's their own personnel issues, going up against a defense like this.

1:28:41It's just incredibly fun to watch. There's also the little bit of Shanahan versus D 'Amico Ryans, which I think is a fun little thing. Like, it's just, I'm kind of juiced up for this one. Yeah, I'm looking forward to this game. It's the one game on the slate we did not hit and a little bit more at length that we probably could have. I'm looking forward to watching this one. All right, that is all we've got from the week eight preview. Sincerely appreciate you guys tuning in. We will be back here on Sunday night for now. That's all we got. Talk to you soon. We'll see you next time.