What matters and what doesn't at the combine

0:02Dave Helman: Welcome to another episode of Building the Beast. I am Dave Helman and today Dane Brugler and I ran through our 2026 NFL Combine preview. If you're new to the draft, if you need a refresher, NFL Combine, one of the most fun, interesting events of the NFL calendar, the entire league descending on Indianapolis this week for what is essentially the most important job fair of the year. It's a job interview for NFL prospects searching for a team to draft them. It's a job fair for NFL GMs and coaches. This is where trade talks heat up. This is where the free agency market comes into play. Teams investigating their own players, players from other teams, the espionage, the subterfuge, the information gathered in Indianapolis worth its weight in gold.

0:54Dave Helman: Like I said, it's one of the best weeks of the NFL calendar. Dane and I took a look at it from the prospect portion. That is why everybody goes to Indies to look at guys on field, testing, interviewing with teams who might potentially draft them. So that's what we did. Took a look at what the combine is, what you need to know about the event itself. And of course, we walked through some of the most interesting players in this year's combine with the most to gain. A loaded episode for y 'all as we make our way to Indianapolis. Let's get right to it.

1:31Dave Helman: Well, Dane, I don't think it gets more on brand than this because we're doing another magic of podcasting tricks right now. We are recording this on Sunday afternoon so that the bulk of our staff can use Monday as a travel day. And you've still got some NFL combine material in your feed while we're all traveling to Indianapolis, except Dane, not only are you already in Indianapolis, you've already been there for like 24 hours. That's how jacked up you are and how attentive to detail you are. You get there before everybody else. Yeah.

2:06Dane Brugler: Someone's got to turn the lights on, you know, get the spread ready. But no, I like it's, this is the most important week of the year for my purposes. There's, I learned more this week than any other week. And it's really just the, the amount of resources that are here in one place for a six, seven day period, all the scouts that are here, the coaches, the players. I mean, most of these players, I've talked to all these guys, but there's maybe 15, 20 that I haven't talked to yet. So it's important to get FaceTime with them. You know, I talked to scouts throughout the year. Some of them I haven't talked to since last combine.

2:42Dane Brugler: So it's good to sit down with them. You know, it's a coffee here, you know, meet up in the convention center there, all these different things that help help me in my process and inform who these players are. So every minute of this week, Sunday to Sunday, basically is full. It's a full schedule. And so there's a lot to get done. But it's it's a really important part of my process, but also the process of these teams.

3:11Dave Helman: Yeah, I think I'm glad you laid that out because I think I figured you out. But because if you talk to any of the old heads in this game, like you and I both know the legend Rick Gosselin, who was so instrumental in turning the combine into an event. He was one of those people that started going to Indy and the information that he was getting helped fuel draft news and turn this into what it has become. And obviously, with more media showing up every single year and whatever the number is, like 1 ,200 people get credentialed for this thing, it's harder to get that access than it used to be. But the earlier you show up, the more time you have to set up meetings and run into people.

3:55Dave Helman: So a tip of my hat to you, sir. That's very smart.

3:59Dane Brugler: Well, let's give a brief history lesson on what the Combine is. So the combine, it really started in the mid 80s as a place for a centralized location for all the teams to get medical information from all these prospects. Instead of sending all these guys from city to city to city to get the full medicals, let's just do one central area. And it really started in like 1982. And then it bounced around. It was in New Orleans for two years. It was in Arizona in like 1985. And then I think it was 1987 is when it moved to Indianapolis. And it's been here ever since. It'll be here for at least the next few years.

4:41Dane Brugler: And they keep flirting with, maybe should we take it on the road? But I think everybody is pushing for it to stay in Indianapolis. It's logistically, it makes a lot of sense just for a central location for everybody coming around the country. You need a certain amount of MRI machines within a half mile radius. That's really important. Um, so I think that, and then just the, the way the city set up, it's a convinced convention city. And so it's just the, uh, accessibility is really, uh, works for everybody involved. So hopefully it stays in Indianapolis, but the medicals, the interviews, central location for all these teams, that that's what it was really about.

5:23Dane Brugler: And yeah, to your point, in the late 90s, there were, you know, a handful of reporters set up outside the hotel who would cover this thing. And now it's well over a thousand credentials. Even when I started coming here in 2011 was my first year. So this is my 16th straight combine. But even back then, it was maybe like 200 credentials or so. And it's just amazing to see how it's grown since then. But the thing that gets everybody excited from a fan perspective is obviously the players and the on-field stuff. So there are basically four main groups broken up by positions. Each player is in Indianapolis for basically five days.

6:07Dane Brugler: Those days include three days of interviews, three days of medicals. There's a pre-exam. There's a full medical. There's an ortho. and then the those are the two main areas like i said the interviews and the medicals but then the and those two reason or those two areas are why the combine exists like so i think a lot of people say it's overrated it doesn't matter those two reasons alone are why the combine is never going to go away but obviously the sexy part of this week is the on-field testing and the 40 the jumps the shuttles the position specific drills uh so the day before each prospect leaves that's the on-field stuff and that's what you'll see on tv that's what get all the headlines and there's value in that um that be on position by position but it's if we're gonna rank why the combine's important it's a distant third behind the medicals and the interviews for teams the

7:02Dave Helman: yeah the very unsexy truth of the matter is having these medical facilities in downtown Indianapolis where you can send 319 prospects through a battery of tests as efficiently as possible without anybody really needing to get in a car or at the very least without needing to drive more than two or three blocks. That's the real purpose of it. And teams are going to get to the bottom of medical stuff here over the next six days. A lot of it won't ever come to light. Occasionally, some of it does. Obviously, Dane, I remember back in the peak of our time together before this show, Maurice Hurst's heart issue coming to light during the combine like that, that type of stuff will make it to light.

7:44Dave Helman: But the vast majority of this stuff is for teams and teams alone typically to know outside of the players themselves. And then obviously,

7:53Dane Brugler: it's funny you bring that up because I was just thinking about the other day. That was, gosh, I was 2017, maybe I don't even remember what year it was. But I remember you and I were sitting with Broadus. Broadus gets a tip about Maurice Hurst's heart issue. And I remember seeing Adam Schefter and I'm friendly with Adam. So I went over to Adam. I said, Hey, did you hear about Maurice Hurst? He said, I just got it. And he's like, watch this. And he showed me and he was putting his tweet together to send it out. And it's just, it's just funny how this whole thing, how it works like that. Some of these, some, some of these players are, you know, their medicals are gonna be a little more important than others in terms of they've got past injuries that we need to figure out.

8:36Dane Brugler: Okay. They missed half the year. How are they feeling now? You know, that, that's a, that's a big part of this. But like you said, yeah, some of these guys played every, every game of their career. Like they were, they were durable. They didn't miss any time due to injury, but then they come here to the combine. We find out, well, actually it's bone on bone and there's with his knee, it's you know, there's an underlying condition that maybe we didn't know about. And so it's maybe the most nerve wracking part of the combine is when we get that medical feedback for both the players and for teams, you know, teams, you know, they, it's just, it comes down to the medical to the doctors and whether or not they give thumbs up, thumbs down.

9:20Dave Helman: The number of times that I have complained to my friends in the scouting world and been like, why don't, why don't, why didn't you like my guy? Why did this guy slip to the third round? Why did this guy slip late into day three? Like, what's y 'all's problem? He's a great football player. And they'll say, yeah, he is. And what you don't know is that this medical issue is a ticking time bomb, and we just weren't going to be the team to take a chance on that. And sometimes that's for good reasons. Sometimes players outperform that or prove people wrong about it. But I think it is the single biggest thing that gets accomplished here in Indianapolis and why I hope they never move it.

9:59Dave Helman: I just think it makes it easier on the scouting in the NFL community. You got to bring up the interviews as well. This is the first opportunity for NFL teams to get face time with a lot of these guys. Obviously, the senior bowl as well. But this is a way bigger pool of players and underclassmen are invited to this as well. I think it's a little bit overblown, like spending 15 minutes with select guys on three or four nights. I think on Monday and Tuesday night, as well as Wednesday morning and Wednesday night and Thursday morning and Thursday night, teams can meet with these guys. And it's like speed dating where you just get as many members of your organization in a room as possible and try to quiz these guys.

10:41Dave Helman: Like I said, I think it's a little bit overblown and I think teams are starting to reflect that. I saw one thing I wanted to make sure we hit at the top of this show. the Jaguars are not sending Liam Cohen and James Gladstone to the combine this year their head coach and GM I think teams it's not a coincidence to me that those guys are part of the LA Rams operation they both came from LA teams having differing opinions on how valuable that stuff is their their staffs are still going to be there absolutely but I think teams more and more are saying, yeah, I mean, 15 minutes in a hotel room with these guys doesn't need to be the end all be all for whether or not we draft them.

11:22Dane Brugler: Well, and yeah, there's a lot of things. It's part of that process. Like all the all the video or all the interviews are recorded. And so, you know, every scout, every part of the front office, the coaches, they'll have access to that, even if you're not present at the combine, if you're not in that meeting. but this is also the you know the kind of the first impression for a lot of these guys in front of gms and head coaches so you know it's important just to get face time even if it is only 15 minutes you know if you're a head coach and you know some backstory just in terms of where teams are in their process they spent the last two three weeks meeting and setting a preliminary board so they have an idea of, you know, they're not trying to bite off, you know, more than you can chew and interview all 319.

12:13Dane Brugler: Actually, it's 318 now because Isaiah World is not going to be here. As I reported this week, had the ACL, just had the surgery. They decided, you know, he needs to stay off his leg. It's not worth kind of parading him around. You know, he'll go back for medical rechecks. Uh, it's a bummer for him, but I understand why they made that decision. So anyways, 318. So teams have the preliminary board of this is who we're looking at. This is, uh, you know, who we need to make sure and talk to. And sometimes guys can really help themselves in those meetings. I remember it was, uh, I think it was Devin Witherspoon, uh, after his meeting with the Seahawks, I think they were kind of like, all right, that's our guy.

12:54Dane Brugler: Cause he, he was just so dang impressive, um, with the way he carries himself and, um, his knowledge, his intelligence, but also his how genuine of a person that he is and how that carries over to the field. And so meeting with the head coaches and the assistant coaches and, you know, there's a lot of prep that goes into it. It's not just, you know, when these players and these prospects are training for the draft, it's not just speed training and, you know, the 40 and the vert and all that. It's it's interview training and just understanding the kind of questions that are going to come at you.

13:27Dane Brugler: So you are able to think on your feet and have the answers that teams are looking for.

13:32Dave Helman: One last thing I do want to hit before we get into some actual prospects. You mentioned the on field. I do agree. It's it's the third most important thing. It's overblown. People call it the underwear Olympics. But one thing I've always appreciated about working with you, you were one of the people that taught me what matters at the NFL combine. And so we all know the 40 yard dash is going to take up a lot of oxygen on NFL network and ESPN this week. I think people talk a lot about bench press and whatever the hell else we do here. It doesn't all matter, but some of it matters a lot. And I was hoping you could give me your personal rundown.

14:15Dave Helman: I fixate on the three cone because of what it says about change of direction and fluidity for players. But give me your personal rundown of what matters for who when you're watching this this coming week.

14:31Dane Brugler: Yeah, and the three cone is absolutely my favorite as well. C.O. Braccato, legendary scout. You know, one of my mentors created it. You know, it was he wanted to come up with a drill that really showed ability to redirect and change directions at a quick pace. And regardless of position, I think it really is relevant for every position. So that's that's something I care about for, you know, across the board for position by position. It really it really depends, you know, for for linemen. I want to see you, you know, just your movements. And I think I love about especially with linemen is I love it when guys are grouped together.

15:15Dane Brugler: so like spencer fano monroe freeling they won't be exactly back to back but they'll be close so it's just a one after the other you can tell the one movement and you have an immediate reference point to compare it to the next guy and i remember going back to one of my first combines like 2013 um it was eric fisher luke jokel those everyone was talking about luke jokel being the number one overall pick that year i remember being right there watching those guys work out watching Fisher move and then watching Jokal move. I remember walking out of Lucas Oil and saying, Eric Fisher's going to be the number one pick.

15:51Dane Brugler: BU is so much more impressive as a mover. The movement skills were fantastic. And so I think that that immediate reference point, comparing each one of these guys back to back, is something that across the board, no matter what the position, is really important to watch. I love the gauntlet. That's one of my favorites. Tight ends, receivers, just to see their ability, how natural it is to stay calm, no panic on that straight line, catch the ball, not a lot of movement once the ball hits their hands, and then ability to get upfield. So there's a lot of position by position specific drills that matter.

16:30Dane Brugler: But the gauntlet is probably my favorite in terms of breaking down the pass catchers and how cleanly they're able to do that.

16:38Dave Helman: I love the DB version of the gauntlet where you just have to flip your hips as many times as you can because that just feels like one of those drills that's going to expose you and that's that's what I'm looking for 40 yard dash definitely matters for backs receivers and and DBs I suppose but yeah the the three cone the shuttles I feel like people have really become hip to what shuttle can mean especially for like offensive linemen and guys like that like you said change of direction from a standstill that is the stuff that i am paying attention to more so than than the made for tv events i guess and it's like okay for guys that want to for

17:20Dane Brugler: anybody out there who wants to be a scout i would go into this if you've watched these guys go into this with with expectations you know you've watched uh carnell tate uh you've watched this tape at Ohio State, what, you know, make a mental note. What do you think is 40 yard dashes? And then when he actually runs the 40 yard dash, if it was a lot better than you thought, okay, then maybe you need to go back to the tape and say, okay, what did I miss? Or if it was maybe worse than you thought, same thing. Have expectations going into this. So you can kind of maybe go back and adjust because that's what the combine is one big cross-checking exercise.

18:00Dane Brugler: It's not meant to, oh, okay, well, all of a sudden he wasn't fast on tape, but he ran fast in shorts. And so all of a sudden I'm going to bump up his grade by a round. That's not how it works. It's more of a cross-checking exercise where if a guy drastically performs outside of what you thought based off of what the tape says, then you have to go back to the tape and figure out, okay, what am I missing? Maybe I watched too many tapes earlier in the year when he was banged up. And then later in the year when he was healthy, it looked a lot better or vice versa. And so there's a lot of different ways that, you know, you can maybe misinterpret things on tape that shows out in the testing.

18:36Dane Brugler: It's just a matter of getting to the bottom of that.

18:38Dave Helman: It is a very informative week in the NFL, and some of it is overblown. The vast majority, in my opinion, not so much, though. Like, if you know what to look for, I think this can be a very useful week. We're going to dive into it deeper. We'll take an early break and we are going to work through players at every position that we are excited about what's in front of them this week in Indianapolis right after this.

19:06Dave Helman: All right, Dane, we laid out what's happening, what's at stake in Indianapolis. Let's talk about the prospects themselves, the guys that will be working through this week in Indianapolis. It is a little bit tricky in this day and age. guys are more likely to sit out of certain things or opt not to do things. So I'll call it a moving target. We know some of this ahead of time, but things tend to crop up over the course of the week. So let's keep that in the back of our minds, but let's just work through this position by position. And at the big money position, we do fortunately already know Fernando Mendoza is not going to work out in Indianapolis.

19:44Dave Helman: He's going to save that for Indiana's pro day, which I actually appreciate. I think I think Mendoza is doing it to raise the spotlight at IU Pro Day for his guys, which is cool. It also raises the spotlight in Indy for the guys who have more work to do. Fernando Mendoza is going one one to Las Vegas. I'm confident of that. We don't know what the hell is going to happen with Ty Simpson, with Garrett Nussmeier. And I'll even throw in one more name for you, Dane. I'm very intrigued. This is the time on the calendar where I'm ready to see what's going on with Drew Aller. and I don't know what that means if he's physically available to work out but again we talk about the medicals this is a guy whose season was ended by injury this is a big step in the process for him to find out where he is from a health standpoint so Simpson and Nussmeier I would assume are going to work out in Indy I don't know for sure about Aller but I'm I'm ready to start hearing things about Drew Aller I think all three of those guys could stand to gain a lot from what's going on this week at the combine.

20:46Yeah.

20:47Dane Brugler: And I'll throw another name in there too. Um, but first, yeah, I think Ty Simpson is the one who has the most to gain from this week. I mean, what's his draft range right now? If you had to guess, like it, it could be what anywhere between the 13th pick and the 63rd pick.

21:06Dave Helman: Like I was going to say 12, I was going to say 12, but yeah, somewhere,

21:11Dane Brugler: somewhere between i think the the rams are 13 i believe the cowboys obviously at 12 aren't taking them so that's why i said 13 but but you never know who's actually gonna pick absolutely absolutely

21:20Dave Helman: yeah uh yeah somewhere somewhere right after the top 10 and then i'd i'd be surprised if he's still there at the start of the third round that's that's about all i got no that and that's exactly

21:32Dane Brugler: kind of what i was thinking then that's a wide range that that's uh there's a lot of places in that range where he could fall. And it really just comes down to what do you think Ty Simpson is as a pro? Is he a, some teams see him as a high level backup. Some other teams see him as a low end starter. Others see it a little bit clearer or a little more optimistic and say, this is, could, you know, be a mid-level starter by the time that, you know, he's done developing. You know, I just, he's, he's a guy with 15 starts. And so I think he's really going to impressed during the interview process. This is a guy that has, he's really been receiving a quarterback education his entire life growing up on a college campus as part of a division one program with his dad.

22:18Dane Brugler: But there's just a lot of things on tape where he just, he hasn't seen enough live reps yet. Yeah. He, he did it in college, but between his final or in high school, But between his last high school touchdown pass and his first college touchdown pass, it was like a thousand four hundred days. Like it's just there was such a big gap in there where he didn't see live reps on the field as a starter. And that's there's a development piece missing. And so that really causes some unknown in terms of his projection. And so how much can he answer this week? I think he'll crush the interview process. I mean, you're just to even get the verified for a size.

23:01Dane Brugler: That'll be he's not the biggest guy. And so just seeing how big he is will be something. And then how does the ball come off his hand? And again, I mentioned it with the offensive lineman, but with quarterbacks to see how that ball pops off his hand. One guy after another. That's something that is a really good reference point.

23:18Dave Helman: I'm really glad you said that. Shame on me. A big part of combine week that I forgot to mention. One of my favorite parts, we get official measurements on all of the biggest names in the draft. And we have them for a lot of guys already. Yeah. But we can really fill in the gaps here. And there's no more guessing. There are still some guys that are like hiding behind their college measurements. And that ends starting tomorrow. And I can't wait to finally know arm lengths and hand size and wingspan and height and all that good stuff. It's very, very it just makes it less tedious and less like a guessing game.

23:55Dane Brugler: Yeah. And for some, it matters more than others, obviously, with offensive line and an arm length. I remember at this time last year, it was all about Will Campbell and would he get to that 33 number? And look, there there will be some different numbers from the senior bowl, from the shrine bowl to the combine to the pro days. And some teams, they take the average. Other teams just take your best. You know, if you if you were 32 and a half at the senior bowl, but 33 inches at the combine, they're going to take 33 inches. They're going to give you that benefit of the doubt. So that's but that's definitely a big a big part of this.

24:31Dane Brugler: I don't think we're going to see drowler do anything. You know, I don't he's not ready for that yet. It feels a little early in my.

24:36Dave Helman: Yeah, like that would have been my guess.

24:38Dane Brugler: Hopefully we see him get out there and throw before the draft. That's the hope. but you know by the time he's healthy how much training will he have had by that point how much rust will there be so hopefully this week we'll have maybe some more clarity on on when we'll see him actually throw the ball um Nussmeier like you mentioned and then I'm also really interested to see Cole Payton um North Dakota State who is going to be one of the more intriguing quarterbacks in this class. Um, another one year starter, just like Ty Simpson. Um, he actually has fewer starts only 13 and they all came at the FCS level.

25:17Dane Brugler: And so it's kind of like a double whammy there. Um, he's, but he's a big guy. He's going to come in at 230 ish pounds. He's going to run in the four fives. I think the athletic testing is going to be really impressive. Uh, remember like over the summer scouts were talking about him as a possible tight end convert before he had a really productive senior year at quarterback so i i'm eager to see how he throws the ball how consistent he can be um senior bowl was up and down for him and so but also more context with that he broke his thumb on his throwing hand in in the last game of the year he just started throwing like a couple days before the senior bowl and so that's important context with his performance there and so how he looked this week the combine there's a lot of like i have i would have a hard time taking him before like maybe the fourth round just because he's there's so much missing from his development that he's just going to take time and he's kind of in that weird spot in the middle where he needs more reps but he's not near ready to face nfl competition so it's kind of like he's one of the rare cases where he really like you want to give him credit for staying put and because he went to North Dakota State because they were losing Trey Lance.

26:30Dane Brugler: And it's like, oh, I'm going to have a chance to go on the field. But then Cam Miller was in the program. He's a four-year starter. And so Cole was a backup for all these years. Finally got a shot. You see a ton of potential. He's a true dual-threat quarterback, good size, good athlete, but can also push the ball downfield, really aggressive passer. It's just he's almost like he would be perfect for if NFL had some type of minor league system outside of college. And so this will be a big week for Colt Payton to kind of stake his claim about being a top five quarterback in this class.

27:06Dave Helman: It's so true. Developmental quarterbacks sound really exciting until you remember that it's hard to develop guys while you're trying to win games in the NFL. I love the the added wrinkle. I mean, you see this a little bit at the senior bowl as well, but the added wrinkle for quarterbacks and pass catchers at the combine where you just get dumped onto the field at Lucas Oil. and assigned to a group and it's like, all right, go look good with this guy that you like these guys. You don't know. You're catching the ball from a quarterback you've never played with. You're throwing to receivers you barely know anything about.

27:38Dave Helman: And so it doesn't mean everything. But if you can look good doing that, especially as a guy who's trying to prove something that that carries a little extra weight for me. I mean, two of the worst passing performances I ever saw at the combine in 16 years doing this came from national champion winning quarterbacks.

27:59Dane Brugler: Cam Newton, it was terrible. And Will Howard last year was awful throwing the football. But, you know, you don't put too much into it. At the same time, C.J. Stroud was one of the best that I ever saw during a combine workout for a quarterback. And him and Smith and Jigbo were just unbelievable. during workouts and so I not a shock that they were drafted where they were and obviously have

28:23Dave Helman: you know been productive pros let's move on to running back which we know the score Jeremiah Love RB1 Jadarian Price somewhere not far behind him but like outside of those two guys and maybe you don't even like Price as your RB2 but outside of the Notre Dame guys being very widely liked it feels like a big opportunity for pretty much everybody else so I'll just throw it to you I have a couple guys I'm intrigued by but I'll throw it to you as far as as guys that might be able to

28:55Dane Brugler: step up and stand out this week yeah and I'm interested to see price and what numbers he can put out there because I think he should test well that that's part of his appeal um and he also he had an Achilles earlier in his career so just making sure the medicals are good with him um And the guy outside of those two that I'm probably most excited to watch is Mike Washington from Arkansas, who had a good week at the Senior Bowl. And he's he's a bigger back, but I think he I think he'll run well. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he's able to be somewhere in the four fours and be impressive at that size in the way he moves.

29:35Dave Helman: I'm very curious what the narrative would be on Le 'Veon Moss out of Texas A &M if he hadn't gotten hurt as early into the season as he did. I know he came back for the playoff game, but that was after a two month absence. Not a whole lot of offense happening for either side in that game at the end of the day. And so I'm curious to see what he looks like, what the medicals say on him and just, again, having an opportunity. It's a guy that a lot of people were really high on. He looked really good. I don't think A &M's offense was quite the same after he got hurt last season. So I'm really intrigued by what he can do.

30:12Dave Helman: And I will throw out another shameless plug for my guy, Jonah Coleman, who I'm just I'm going to keep riding with. I'm I'm a little offended that he people seem so low on him. Like, I think he's in the mix to be one of the top three running backs in this class. But we'll see if he can prove me right with some good workouts.

30:32Dane Brugler: I really wanted to get it, be up there with you on him. I just, I couldn't get there. I, it's a bummer. Nick Singleton, the Penn state running back broke his foot at the senior bowl. Cause he would have been, this would have been his time to shine for threes. And at that 220 pounds, the testing would have been fantastic. uh unfortunately just uh we were all robbed of being able to see that which is uh too bad

31:00Dave Helman: wide receiver i struggled i struggled to come up with juicy names here because i know exactly how i feel about the top guys i guess i would say makai lemon from like a testing standpoint and a measurement standpoint let's let's find out let's find out exactly how big this guy is and exactly how fast he can run I think that'll be very interesting uh other than that this maybe could be a week for Zachariah Branch like we talked about it a couple shows ago where it's like okay how good of a receiver are you you weren't targeted downfield ever in Georgia's offense this seems like a good opportunity for him to get out there and and do the gauntlet and show off his hands show off all that type of stuff I don't know if he's gonna do it but But I think it would I think it would be a good idea.

31:49Dane Brugler: Yeah. Well, and I want to see him track the ball over his shoulder because, you know, it's he's used to screens and these quick hitters and being an underneath target. OK, I want to see you track the ball over your shoulder and, you know, catch the ball downfield during these drills. Something he just wasn't asked to do a ton of at Georgia. The the name that I can't wait to see is Brennan Thompson. he's when I watched his tape in December after Mississippi State season was done and I sat down and watched his tape it was like okay yeah he'll run the fastest 40 there's no question about it I mean you watch him and he has there's a jet pack on under his pads it just you know he erases pursuit angles like nothing he will stumble out of his releases and still create two strides of separation um he should be somewhere in the four twos uh now could he challenge for the record i i won't rule it out i mean anything in the four twos is remarkable but if he's able to get close to xavier worthy in that four two two four two one range look out man uh thompson is small he'll probably be right around 170 pounds five nine but when you can fly like that um and and he's not just a speed guy and he had over a thousand yards in the sec led the led the conference in receiving uh would have had probably 2 000 yards if his quarterback was any good so he is a more than just a speed guy but this is his chance to kind of really show off uh what he can do so yeah brendan thompson easy pick for fastest 40 this year and uh you know a couple other guys that i am very eager to see test kendrick law from kentucky uh there's there's some cadarious tony there with the way he moves.

33:33Dane Brugler: It's just, it's really fluid. It's really fast. The acceleration's impressive. Malik Benson was a 10-4 guy, a wide receiver from Oregon. Benson's interesting. He's on his fourth school the last four years. It's not, he's not a polished player, but you see these, especially vertically, you see these flashes where there's, there's something there. And so if you have a floor of a pretty good vertical receiver, that's something to work with that you You can maybe hope he can develop into Zachary branch. That's a good name. He should be in the four threes. Dion Burks from Oklahoma. He's, he should be somewhere in the four threes.

34:13Dane Brugler: So yeah, I think this is a receiver class. And then honestly, I mean, I know like, so in my top 100, Cardinal Tate, number one, and I don't, unless he runs a four, six, five, like I don't, I'm not even going to consider, you know, dropping him or anything like that. What do you think he'll run? Like, what would you guess? Give me an over under. Four, five, four. Under. I'll be surprised he's not in the four fours. I think he'll be somewhere in the four fours. And he's just, he doesn't come off, or you watch him and you don't say burner, but he's so, those long strides are just so dynamic and he eats up grass so quickly.

34:58Dane Brugler: I think it will translate to the 40. And so I'm expecting some more in the four fours. Tate should hopefully we see him do everything. Very eager to see because he's he's tall. He's long. You know, what is he get over 200 pounds? I think he was listed at 195 maybe. So just interested in getting Tate and and Lemon and just enticing getting those official measurements. That'll be important.

35:24Dave Helman: I got a name for you at tight end that I'm just shamelessly stealing from you you put him on my radar in like October okay I think Michael Trigg out of Baylor is a a like he's the type of guy that quote unquote wins combine week because he's just a big athletic freak and his potential measurements combined with what he might be able to do in a non-contact open field gauntlet sort of situation i just people love a freakish tight end who can make plays down the field even if uh they'd have a spotty track record once they finally get drafted but i think this i think he could be a guy that turns a lot of heads and makes people say wait what who's this guy from baylor that's my uh that's my pre-combine prediction i wait till you see his measurements because this

36:17Dane Brugler: guy like he's like six three and a half uh 250 pounds but his arm length and hand size and wingspan are unbelievable and he like he there will be plenty of offensive linemen saying oh i wish i had that i wish my arms were that long i wish my hands were that size uh it's it's remarkable and you see it on film right i mean the way that he it looks like he's catching nerf balls and um yeah i'll be interested to see what how he works out the gauntlet just from a consistency standpoint um but yeah he is he's a freaky dude um i uh stowers from vanderbilt i'm very i think he's gonna test really well um maybe even over 40 in the vert uh that's your guy you you love stowers i i yeah you do well i i really like the athlete and that's yeah and that's where i struggle with him i really like the athlete and i really like the pass catcher but okay is he a is he just an f is he like i just i don't know i i want to be i hope i come away from indy feeling stronger more conviction about his this is exactly what he is and what he can be um in terms of his NFL role.

37:32Dane Brugler: But yes, I do really like him because, um, but the athlete that he is, um, Jaron Canik, the Oklahoma, um, tight end. I think he's, he was like a 10, 600 meter guy. Um, he's, he's going to fly. So another, this, this draft is, there are more tight ends. I don't think we mentioned it earlier, but for those that don't know, combine is invite only. It's not like any prospect can go. There were more tight ends invited. I think it was 27 tight ends invited this year. The average is like 18 or something like that. So the amount of tight ends on day three is crazy. It's a loaded group. And so this will be the combine will be important for all those guys in terms of just separating yourself.

38:19Dane Brugler: It's just those stacks are so crowded that one, you know, impressive outing in a certain drill or catching the football, it could really matter from team to team.

38:30Dave Helman: And with the exception of Kenyon Sadiq, like after him, it's like pick your flavor at tight end, right? Like you could come up with half a dozen names. Max Clare's awesome. Stack them in any order you want.

38:45Dane Brugler: Yeah. Justin Jolie's awesome. Jack Endries, we didn't get a chance to see enough of at the shrine. So hopefully he's I believe is a hamstring, just a minor hamstring injury. But hopefully he's full go at the combine. But all those, yeah, all those day three guys, Nate Borkicker, Will Keckmerick from Ohio State, Dallin Bentley, Sam Rausch. I mean, there's a lot of these tight ends that are pretty good. Riley Nowakowski, my Indiana tight end. I want to see who can separate themselves from all those day three projections.

39:17Dave Helman: Let's wrap up the offensive side. We can just we'll just roll offensive line into one category. Who stands out to you on the offensive line?

39:27Dane Brugler: Well, I mentioned earlier how Spencer Fano and Monroe Freeling, how seeing those guys back to back. Like, I'm very eager to see just how these guys move in person. Caden Proctor should be impressive for a guy that will I guess we'll find out how big he is. I think he was listed at 360. So very eager to see just exactly what he comes in at.

39:48Dave Helman: That's the type of guy where you get excited about the weigh-in day where you're like, what do the numbers actually say?

39:55Dane Brugler: Right, exactly. And so hopefully these guys are doing the shuttles. They're doing the change of direction drills just to see. I want to see how they move. And so some of the position-specific stuff, the wave drills and just different things like that. You can see who's explosive, who starts to wear down. That's that endurance part of this is pretty important. And I want to see among these centers who can really jump out. You know, is it Jake Slaughter? Is it Zune from A &M? Sam Hesht from from Kansas State. Hopefully we get an injury update on Connor Liu, who's coming back from the ACL injury.

40:35Dane Brugler: How serious is the knee or are we feeling good about that? So Parker Brailsford from Alabama should test really well. that's at least you should because that's kind of what you like about him is the athleticism so hopefully I want to feel better about some of these centers and kind of I don't think any of them are going to go top 75 maybe one gets in there but more likely we see them in that 76 to 125 range for the teams looking for a potential starting center this year so you're telling me

41:06Dave Helman: there's going to be a run on centers on Friday night into Saturday morning that's that's the draft nerd shit I love to hear uh real quick I one guy we talked a lot about Max Iannaccio as a big senior bowl winner just intrigued to see if he can build on that and continue to sort of climb into that conversation with the upper rung tackles I also wanted to ask you where you stand on Caleb Lomu right now the other Utah offensive tackle um bare minimum I think he's a guy that looks the part and I think guys that look the part really do well for themselves at the combine so I'm anticipating that that's a name we hear a good bit about this week where do you

41:49Dane Brugler: where do you stand on him right now yeah I think that's he should I I was told he's going to be testing and doing everything so hopefully that's that's what happens um but that's what you like about him he's a light framed tackle you know very spry um very balanced in his movements uh He recovers well. And so all those things translate to just being nimble in these drills. So the redirection, the foot quickness, that's something that should show in these in the results. And I don't like that. That's what we already know about him. So it's not like he's going to put up these numbers and, OK, let's vault him up the board because we already know about that.

42:29Dane Brugler: But it's still it's something that was going to make you feel better about the evaluation, because the things that you worry about, the play strength and the ability to get full extension, control blocks, that's something where his youth shows. He's a young player. He's a third-year sophomore. He just turned 21 years old. So there's things about his physical profile in terms of controlling blocks, being powerful, that he needs to get better at. It's the movement stuff, the athleticism that should – that's why you're thinking about drafting him somewhere in the first round. And that's something that should show during the combine.

43:04All right.

43:05Dave Helman: That wraps up the offensive side of the ball. We're going to hit on some defensive names that we are watching for at the combine right after one more break.

43:15Dave Helman: It's been a theme all year. Dane edge rusher is, if not the most exciting position in this draft, it's definitely one of them. And there's no shortage of options of guys that you could get a close look at this week. I think from a measurement standpoint, I'm intrigued by a lot of these guys, like the top edge rushers. I'm I hope they all test. I'd be so excited to see how Arvel Reese runs everything and how he clocks in what all his measurements look like. Keldrick Falk is another guy that seems like he should dominate an event like the NFL combine. You could take this in a dozen different directions, in my opinion.

43:56Dave Helman: Well, I'd start with the Miami guys.

43:58Dane Brugler: I want to see. Sure. Yeah. Them too.

44:01Dave Helman: Everybody, everybody in this position group is interesting.

44:04Dane Brugler: Oh, no, there's no doubt about it. And you know, the 10 yard split, you know, we mentioned a 40 yard dash, obviously, but for linemen, especially past rushers, you want to see that 10 yard split, how fast are they off the ball in that short area? You know, Ruben Bain, we've talked about him all year, how he's a little bit polarizing because of the body type and the shorter arms. And so, you know, what does he come at with the verified measurements? You know, I gave what a scout gave me from his measurements, you know, from earlier in the year. You know, we'll see if those measurements change at all.

44:40Dane Brugler: I doubt it. But, you know, it's just the measuring tapes. Sometimes they're a little bit longer in Indianapolis. You know, who knew? But I want to see, you know, Mesador's kind of be labeled as the older other Miami pass rusher. um i the on-field stuff eager to see him and then also just the medicals you know he had um past injuries to both feet and that was something that held him back as an underclassman and so just making sure everything's okay medical wise with mesador that'll clear his way to being a first round pick um cassius howell the a &m uh pass rusher you know he's his calling card is It's not length.

45:21Dane Brugler: It's not it's not power. It's movement skills. It's it's burst. And so that should play itself out during drills. But, yeah, I mean, to your point, hopefully we see all these guys work out because there are some freaks in this group and some guys that should really impress.

45:35Dave Helman: That's I'm going to I'll do my best not to hold it against guys for not working out. Right. Because like I appreciate players taking agency. If you want to wait for pro day, if you want to do it where you're more comfortable on a track that you're more familiar with, I'm going to do my best not to hold that against you. But like, I'll just I'll be disappointed. There's no way around it. I'll be disappointed if we don't get to see the guys at the top of the list do stuff.

46:00Dane Brugler: PSA for it. And I tell us to agents all the time. Get your guy in shape so he can run, because this is a fast track and it's you just get it over with. It's a fast track. Do it. Get it over with. and if you don't love what you did you got a plan b at your pro day to make it better and teams will take the better time if you're able to do it better at the pro day not doing it here if you don't have a good reason now some guys are banged up i get it and that that happens but if you don't have a good reason i you're just you're putting all your eggs in one basket at the pro day and it's just i think you're you're doing yourself a disservice by being a healthy scratch for the

46:41Dave Helman: combine just just my two cents i would rather have the number on the board and be able to work for another month to improve it then then put all of my hopes and dreams on the number at my pro day even if pro day numbers are typically more favorable but even still i'd rather just know if i need to work for something more over the next two to four weeks but again this is a fast

47:04Dane Brugler: track here in indy so even not every pro day numbers are better i mean there are a lot of of times where it's not. And so go work out here on this fast track and get it over with. And then you can just coast the rest of the way. Worry about going on 30 visits. Worry about, you know, just finishing strong instead of having to train so hard day in, day out to run another 40. So hopefully we see a lot of those guys take that that type of mindset into this week.

47:33Dave Helman: I'm jumping back to earlier in the show, but I hope Carnell Tate and Mekhi Lemon both run and do all do all this stuff and I mean Tyson can't do it if he's dealing with his injury but it would have been must see tv to have all three of those guys trying to post their best number at the combine hopefully the same can be said for the edge rushers d tackle I'll just keep being a caricature of myself the medicals on Caleb Banks are very interesting to me um I know I mean he was at the senior bowl I get it but teams are still going to be taking a close look at him with all the, with all the medical testing and stuff like that.

48:11Dave Helman: That's probably the most interesting thing here for me.

48:13Dane Brugler: I talked to him this week and he's going to work out. Um, he's, he's excited. He's I'm in, he he's, he's, he's really got a good head on his shoulders. The way he approaches things. Um, he, he wants to show what he can do and it's kind of like making up for lost time because he, and it's fascinating because he, he never played football until he got to high school. so like there's a lot of development that's still happening with him and like the senior year that was supposed to be launch point and of course we know it just didn't happen um and in reality he should not have come back from that injury like and everyone was telling him not to like florida's you're not good the record's bad he didn't care he said i just wanted to finish strong that's that's the type of guy i am and so he worked his butt to get back for like the final two games plays in the senior bowl and the senior bowl you saw him get better every single game Thursday was his best week or day of practice week.

49:08Dane Brugler: And he wants to continue that momentum here in Indy and kind of, like I said, just make up for lost time and show why, you know, he's should be in consideration for being that first defensive tackle drafted.

49:21Dave Helman: Give me a reason, Caleb. I'm I never I never lost faith, buddy. I'm ready. I am ready to beat the drum.

49:28Dane Brugler: That 2024 LSU tape will always have that.

49:30Dave Helman: 2024 Florida season.

49:33Dane Brugler: He was he's a wrecking ball, dude. He's he's six, six, three, 35, 35 inch arms. It's just it's it's hard to find those guys. He benefits from the planet theory. There's there's only so many people on this planet that look like him and move like him. And that's something that teams are always going to be intrigued with. And so, yeah, but to your overall point, this is a big week for him. And I think he's really excited to get after it.

49:58Dave Helman: Moving to linebacker, you know, we talk about not overreacting to on field testing results. And that's just one item cross check all that very responsible stuff. I look at a guy like Jacob Rodriguez, and I feel like this this is a guy where it matters a lot, like how you measure, how you test. And I'm not trying to hate on the guy. He's a phenomenal football player. But there is a category of player where teams are going to be looking at you saying, OK, how fast are you really? How well are you moving? And if you don't meet certain thresholds, it can very negatively impact your draft stock. And Jacob Rodriguez seems like a name very worth highlighting in that regard.

50:43Dane Brugler: The watching him move at the senior bowl up close in person, I I'm a little excited to see how how he can test. Like I was a little bit worried just watching his tape, not worried like he's a bad athlete, but he wasn't going to post numbers that were super impressive. But watching him in person, I don't know. I've got a little more optimism for what he could be.

51:08Dave Helman: Well, the counter, the counter to that is and I hope you're right, because that's testing and athletic ability is the only thing holding anybody back on this guy. And if he can shut that up, then now we're talking about a totally different caliber of draft grade. So I would be very excited to see that.

51:27Dane Brugler: I mean, in my top 100, I gave him a nice little boost after seeing him up close and personal at the senior bowl. I mean, he got he's what, 64th in my top 100. So he went from a late third to kind of like a late second, early third for me. and I you know and that's kind of factoring in already him moving better than I expected so big numbers aren't gonna make me vault him up too much more but this yeah this is like to your point this is a chance for him to really impress and show that hey yeah I'm remember I was a former quarterback dual threat quarterback and you know I'm a good athlete and um because yeah there's there's a lot to sell with Rodriguez with his instincts the way the ball just finds him um So, yeah, that's a good shout.

52:14Dane Brugler: Jake Golday from Cincinnati. Very eager to see him. You know, he's been in my top 50 since September, but he pulled out of the Shrine Bowl. So we haven't seen him in like two months. He's a freaks guy. Bruce Feldman's freaks list. Six four to 40. If he comes anywhere close to the numbers from the freaks list, he was like a one five four ten ten seven broad thirty six inch vert. The shuttle was outstanding. So Golday could be a guy that at six, four, two 40, big guy should, uh, should be able to put on a show. Um, Sonny styles. Hopefully we see him work out. Same thing with Orville Reese. Um, those guys are just freaks and, uh, being able to show what they can do.

52:58Dane Brugler: That would be a lot of fun to watch. Um, Kyle Lewis from Pitt, uh, undersized, uh, where you worry about the take on, um, you know, worry about him in a crowd. but the athleticism, the open field speed and quickness, that's something that is his calling card and something that should show in the drills.

53:16Dave Helman: I really hope Sonny Stiles puts on a show. And a lot of times, like on the outside, you're behind teams anyway. Like teams already know how they feel about these guys for the most part. But Sonny Stiles could put on the type of show where everybody watching is like, okay, this guy is going to be a top 10 draft pick. And NFL teams might be like, well, he always was like, what are you talking about? But running well and testing well at the combine can just sort of shut everybody up and make that more of a consensus opinion than it might have been.

53:51Dane Brugler: Sorry, I'm just thinking more about like talking about Rodriguez and the whole concept of quote unquote risers this week.

54:00Dave Helman: You know, it's it's interesting because it's one of my favorite topics around this time of year.

54:06Dane Brugler: well it's like i don't think it happens a ton but at the same time like i can go back to my text messages and read texts from scouts and they mention it like they say oh yeah he could be a riser or like like so like nfl teams talk about it and so even though like it really isn't that much of a thing and shouldn't be that much of a thing it still kind of is a thing um and so i think

54:29Dave Helman: I think it's, I think it's, it's like, it's like perception is reality almost, you know, like we have, we have a mountain of evidence that suggests Sonny styles is this freakish player that should go at a certain point in the draft, like top, top 20 for sure, potentially even higher than that. And if he were to go out there and just put up wide receiver numbers in all of his workouts, Then it's just then there's it's just one more thing that you can't deny and sort of pushes it over the edge where like not everybody's going to go watch 800 snaps of Sonny Stiles. But if you combine what you've seen of him as a player with an undeniable workout, then I just think it pushes it over the edge.

55:13Dave Helman: It's a very interesting topic because I think you're right. Scouts talk about like scouts will mention that, too. But scouts are also the first ones to say, you know, I'll text a scout during combine week and be like, holy shit, Sonny Styles ran this 40 like he's going to go in the top 10. And scouts love to text you back and be like, you're just finding that out like you just now learned that about Sonny Styles. And I'm like, OK, no, but it was still impressive to watch. It's a very fun cat and mouse game at this time of year.

55:42Dane Brugler: What I think part of it, too, is like you're saying, perceptions, reality and the kind of expectation that, oh, this guy ran what? OK, well, someone's going to take him in the top 20 now, you know, like even though I'm not changing my grade, somebody's going to because it was that impressive of a workout. Yeah, it's that that is an interesting part of it. One more linebacker to mention, Jack Kelly from BYU. He's got a fascinating backstory. He was a national champion BMX racer at the age of five. And he's going to he should test pretty well, at least in the 40 and the vert. I want to see what his three cone is.

56:19Dane Brugler: I want to see the change of direction. But the explosion drills, he should be pretty good.

56:24Dave Helman: I will posit to you, Dane. Cornerback might be the position with the most quote unquote at stake in this entire combine. And that's because two of the top guys have a lot to gain this week. Mansoor Delane, the knock on him going all the way back to August. August is testing. And how big are you? How fast are you? How good of an athlete are you? You can quell some of those concerns with a big week from him. And then obviously Jermod McCoy, the most talked of prospect that we haven't seen, which, hey, if you miss all of 2025 because of an injury, medical week at the combine is a big week for him as well so those two guys I don't want to say the narratives are bad because people are high on both of these guys but there are very big questions about both of them and they both have a chance to answer them this week for different reasons

57:19Dane Brugler: right and McCoy is I have not heard what he's going to do what's the extent of what he can do obviously the medicals first and foremost just making sure the knee's okay and then I don't know how long he's been training to even be available to be a full participant at the combine those are uh variables for me that i i don't know at this point um so very eager to see mccoy and what he does or doesn't do um mansoor delane i think it's more of a threshold thing with him like he doesn't need to go run a four three for to verify that he's a top 12 pick in this draft I do think he needs to get under like a 448.

58:00Dane Brugler: If he's somewhere in the four fives, maybe that that does disqualify him because he's not a big guy. He's going to come in right around 511, right around like 190 pounds. His arm length will be under 30 and a half probably. So he's not big. He's not long. And if you don't have maybe that speed component at a position that's a stopwatch position, that will create some doubt for some teams. who have very strict thresholds about what that position needs to be to draft you in the top 15, which I understand. I'm not saying that's crazy. Does he have the best tape of any corner in this draft? Yes, he does.

58:39Dane Brugler: But just hitting certain thresholds will be important for Mansoor Delane.

58:44Dave Helman: You don't have to be fast, but you can't be slow. And I would say corner is the position receiver to receiver also, but to a lesser degree corner is the position where I'm locked on your 40 time. And yeah, like as long as, as long as the lane comes in under four or five, I'm turning that card in, I don't give a damn, but if it's higher than that, then I'm like, Oh, do I need to be, do I need to be worried that there's just enough? There's just too much working against him to ignore at that point.

59:18Dane Brugler: I think, uh, Brandon Cissé, South Carolina, this should be a big week for him. Um, four threes, 40 inch in the vert, um, D 'Angelo Ponds, Indiana. Uh, he, he should be, he's a former a hundred meter state champ in high school, 200 meet state champ, uh, as well. So he should test pretty well, even though that size is going to be not exactly what you want under 30 inches arm length, um, under five, nine. So the speed, the athleticism, the positional drills, that'll be pretty important for D 'Angelo ponds.

59:52Dave Helman: Safety. I'm going to steal another one of your guys. And again, I think when I was, when I was looking at this, I was just thinking, who is the NFL community at large going to be talking about when combine week is over. Emmanuel McNeil Warren has been on your radar for a long time, but at six, three with almost 33 inch arms, if this guy steps out and has himself a nice week at the combine, I think he's going to be on fricking everybody's radar as just a, you know, freak darling. Uh, so I'm, I'm excited to see if he can pull that off.

1:00:31Dane Brugler: This happens every year where I love a guy and then everyone goes past me with the love and it's like oh I I still love him but you know like people are just a little bit further than I I can go nobody likes even keeled

1:00:47Dave Helman: in the draft community you either gotta love him more than anyone or think he can't play those are

1:00:52Dane Brugler: the options yeah but you're right he's gonna be six three and a half 210 pounds um I mean I would guess he's going to run fourth four five three um something like that which is awesome for a safety um you know he's a good kid too i've really enjoyed talking to him uh the last uh six months or so um dylan thenaman oregon i i think he's going to be really impressive during the drills um he's going to be right at six foot 205 around there but the speed i will see if he can get in the four threes. Um, I, he's going to test off the charts. And so the safety conversation with Caleb downs, which Caleb downs would be interesting too, because he's not going to blow anybody away with the physical traits.

1:01:37Dane Brugler: He'll be fine size speed. I think he'll be just okay. Um, he'll hit certain thresholds, like not, he won't be below average, but he won't blow anybody away. But the enemy has a chance to really knock some socks off. So does McNeil Warren. Um, and some of these other safeties as well so it's a it's a really good safety group this year um eager to see genesis smith the safety from arizona um yeah he's a horrible tackler it's just say it say it what it is but uh he's he if you're looking for that true center field skill set that's what he brings and i i think that he has a chance to test well this week so yeah overall it's a good safety group that i'm eager to see kind of get out there and move around you are one of the most diplomatic

1:02:21Dave Helman: people I know. So I, I have to go watch this tackling for you to give, for you to give that review. I'm going to, he's going to, he's jumping to the top of my list.

1:02:31Dane Brugler: Their business decisions are made, you know, like it's just, it's, it's tough because you have to, it really will test your, um, just how much you're willing to stomach a finesse safety for a guy that has range, has ball skills. Again, that true center field skillset, It's going to really force you to figure out just how much you're able to give in terms of tackling. Because he's just too passive in that area for what you want in safety. And he needs to get better. But I think that if he's able to go out there and test like he's capable, that's going to give him the benefit of the doubt. And, you know, remember, you know, Kalen Bullock from USC who fell to the mid-third round.

1:03:17Dane Brugler: And he's had a pretty good career so far.

1:03:19Dave Helman: He was phenomenal this season for Houston.

1:03:22Dane Brugler: Well, and obviously he went to a really good spot where he's playing on an all-star defense. And that helps, you know, if you're, if you're the seventh best player on your defense and not the third, you know, like that, that makes a big difference. And so that, that helps him, but he's also more of the exception to the rule. And so can Genesis Smith be that same type of guy? You know, I guess we'll, we'll see how the, this, this week plays out.

1:03:47Dave Helman: that wraps it up for guys that are in Indianapolis before we get out of here I did want to ask you if you have a handful of snubs that you were offended did not make the invite list and then you know in a couple months we can point back and say NFL what are you doing listen to Dane Brugler

1:04:05Dane Brugler: there weren't any like um where I was offended um but a couple of guys that I like performed really well at you know all-star games uh as a bummer not gonna be able to see him here like Landon Robinson, the defensive tackle from Navy, undersized, but that guy can play. Our John Carroll receiver, Tyron Montgomery, who turned heads at the Senior Bowl. But, you know, the combine is, it's just, without going too far into it, it's voted on by representatives from everybody that's part of the National Scouting Service, all the teams. they vote on players that should be here at the combine. And so sometimes guys don't get enough votes and they don't clear that mark.

1:04:51Dane Brugler: And so they don't get invited. But I will say there's a lot of times guys don't get invited and some teams do a little fist pump. You know, they they want to keep them a little under the radar, a little bit off the beaten path. Like, you know, we don't we don't want you getting blown up too much. And, you know, whether that's unfortunate for the kid. But at the same time, you know, teams still really like some of these players. And, you know, not being at the combine doesn't close any doors by any means.

1:05:19Dave Helman: What a what a business where you're you're actively rooting against this guy's opportunities because you love him so much. Right. Fantastic. What a what an industry. All right. That does it for us. Dane, I will see you soon. I'm leaving for Indianapolis in the morning. cannot wait to see you cannot wait to talk more ball talk about what's actually happening we'll have some results to go over and who knows maybe we'll split a shrimp cocktail looking forward to it man i appreciate you we will chat with y 'all soon