Which offensive lineman has the highest ceiling in the 2026 NFL Draft class?

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1:25Robert Mays: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, chatting offensive linemen today. Always a show that I look forward to every single year. We have our buddy Brandon Thorne from the Trench Warfare Substack coming on today to discuss all of the offensive line superlatives and the categories that we've had for a couple other positions. His favorite offensive tackle, favorite interior offensive lineman, best day to pick. Also joining us, it's Dane Brugler. It's a three-man show about the offensive line class. Really loved picking these guys' brains about this group of players. I think a really interesting group of players and a group that I enjoyed watching maybe more than I expected to coming into this process.

2:05Robert Mays: I think a lot to like about the potentially eight or nine offensive linemen that could go in the first round of this year's draft. A little bit of housekeeping. Just want to remind everyone, we are now a week away from round one of the 2026 NFL draft. We'll be live on YouTube shortly before the draft begins. Me, Dane Brugler, Bruce Feldman, Dave Hellman, Derek Klassman, breaking down all 32 picks of the first round on Thursday night. And then we will be back on Friday, breaking down every pick of rounds two and three. One of my favorite things that we do on the athletic football show every single year.

2:40Robert Mays: Thrilled to have Bruce back and part of our coverage for the second straight year. So please be on the lookout for all the details regarding that. For now, let's get to me, Dane Brugler, and Brandon Thorne breaking down the 2026 offensive line class right now.

3:05Robert Mays: I've really been looking forward to this. I was sitting around all morning going over the rest of my notes, filling stuff out, looking at where Dane had guys in his latest seven-round mock, and I was like, I cannot wait to have this conversation because I think there is a ton to dig into with this offensive line class specifically. And that's what we're doing today. Mostly offensive tackles. We're going to hit the interior guys a little bit. Here to help me work through what I find a very intriguing position group in the 2026 draft. First off, it is our guy, our head draft analyst at The Athletic, Dan Bruegler.

3:38Robert Mays: Dan, how are you doing, man? I'm good. This is going to be a fun topic because this is an interesting offensive line class And obviously, no better person to have this conversation with than our third guest here. Also joining us today from the Trench Warfare sub stack and a guy who does fantastic draft work over at Bleacher Report. It's our old friend, Brandon Thorne. Brandon, how you doing, man? Guys, I'm doing great. Anytime I could be here with you guys talking O-line and doing this show, it's a good day. So I'm excited to get into this. We're going to do superlatives again, a bunch of categories that we picked out similar to what we've done for a couple other positions.

4:13Robert Mays: in the lead up to this draft cycle. But before we dug into the categories, I kind of wanted to have somewhat of a big picture discussion about the offensive line class overall. Because as we are a week away from the draft now, which is kind of crazy to think about, I'm sure for Dane, it doesn't seem like it's crazy to think about. He's been doing this for like 11 months. But as we sit here a week away from the draft, Dane, you had your seven round mock draft come out today, which is part of why I just said that. You had eight offensive linemen in your first round mock. and notably that does not include Max Ahanachor from Arizona State, who I think absolutely has a chance to sneak into the first round.

4:50Robert Mays: And so there is a real possibility that we leave the first round of the 2026 NFL draft with nine offensive linemen drafted in the first round. That has only happened one other time since 2000. That was in 2024 when we got Joe Walt, J.C. Latham, Fashanu, Fuwaga, Amarius Mims, Troy Fitanu, Jordan Morgan, Graham Barton, and tower guy in all in the first round there's some similarities to that class i think if you look at this group and just in terms of like archetypes and where guys are going to go that might be worth talking about but it's only happened once and then there were eight a couple other times including the 2008 draft which is a fascinating draft get dwayne brown and sam baker in the 20s in that draft the bears took chris williams at 14 jeff otah of course the bears are the the bears are one of the two teams that didn't draft a workable player among all those tackles which is very indicative of where they were chris williams at 14 from vanderbilt but it just doesn't happen very often.

5:44Robert Mays: And so we've talked a lot, Dane, about how this is a unique draft when it comes to the positions that are going to be available at the top. And the fact that we might have nine offensive linemen drafted in the first round, that is a premium position that there might be a lot of volume associated with among this group. But we were talking a little bit about this before we started recording. You still struggle to get all the way there with this offensive line class, even if a lot of these guys presumably are going to go in the first round. and for different reasons, right? With each, each offensive lineman, there's just something about their profile that maybe is, I really like them, but there's something keeping me from going all in on why this player is absolutely going to hit or why he's going to be this level of player in the NFL.

6:28It just seems like there is volatility. There's a lot of, like there's not a fork in the road. There's just like 10 different ways this could, this could play out. Part of it will depend on where they go and what position they play once they go to that team. Do they change positions at some point during that rookie contract? There's a lot of those types of guys. And it's a really interesting group. And I don't think that there's a set order in terms of who's the first offensive lineman drafted going to be, who's going to be the third, who's going to be, you know, if we do have eight or nine drafted in the first round, who's that ninth going to be?

7:04I think there's debate there about how it's going to play out. And talking to teams about these guys, it's the same thing. Because you talk to one team, oh, this guy's a guard for us on our board. You talk to another team, no, he's a tackle. So I think all that conjecture that we're going to be talking about with these guys, that's what teams are talking about too.

7:25Robert Mays: I'm curious, Brandon, your experience watching these guys and how much enthusiasm you had for them as a group when you were just digging into the tape. because I'll just go through my like very truncated experience that is very different than what you guys do. Watching them over the last couple weeks, and again, just sort of the narrative around this draft class overall, I watched this group of eight, nine, ten guys when you include some of the interior players, and I liked them more than I thought I would. Like I had more enthusiasm and excitement around this group and what they could be than I might have expected considering how this offensive line class and even this draft had been painted in the lead up to the process.

8:03Robert Mays: I think in a lot of ways, I expected to walk away from this the way I walked away from the edge group, where I was like, ah, this is a weird collection of players. Even if we get a decent amount of them in the first round or in the first 50 picks, I don't know how many true difference makers come away from that. I felt better about the offensive tackle group than I did about the edge group. And so I liked this group more than I thought. And so I think it just surprised me a little bit. So when you went through the whole process with these nine, 10 guys and just this offensive line group overall, what was your experience when you think about this collection of players holistically?

8:41Yeah, I mean, the way I look at the class is there's a lot of incomplete players in the class. There's not really a blue chip tackle, in my opinion, in this class, you know, that's ready to come in and be an impact player right away. and you know there's a variety of these guys that could potentially play inside as well so to me you know I struggled to get a first round grade you know like a true first round grade I do have a couple here but yeah it's just you know it comes down to the value part of it and how high these guys you know are going to go and I guess when you look at the class holistically all positions, it makes sense that a premium position would be pushed up the board as it typically is.

9:26So I understand it, but it still makes me a little uncomfortable with this class because, you know, especially going back over the last couple of weeks and finishing tape of a lot of these top guys, like their whole seasons and stuff like that. Honestly, I feel like you feel more so like with the edge class than not, in my opinion. So that's kind of how I feel about the class. I like the guard class, especially if some of these tackles kick inside. But tackle-wise, it's a little underwhelming, in my opinion. A lot of projection involved.

9:58Robert Mays: I think there's a lot to dig into there. I'll say two things. One, this is just me showing my age and just getting softer and trying to be more optimistic as I get older, where I watch the guys and I'm like, I see how it could work out. Like, I believe in them if it all comes together. There are a lot of players like this in this group where I think this is just me softening as I as I get a little bit deeper into my life. The other part of that, and you said this, I think this is a really key distinction with this tackle group specifically and a lot of these other drafts where we see seven, eight, nine offensive linemen drafted in the first round.

10:32Robert Mays: Almost all of those groups come with like a true blue chip player that was drafted in the top 10 or two of them. The weirdest group is the 2016 class where Laramie Tunsil was actually that player, but he was drafted third among the tackles. This group almost reminds me a little bit of that 2016 group if you just remove Laramie Tunsil from it. We're like Maui Noah and Ronnie Stanley. Jack Conklin was the eighth overall pick, and we were kind of like back and forth about whether that was too high to draft Jack Conklin. Taylor Decker was the 16th pick, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but there are probably some ceiling questions about like what Taylor Decker would be in the pros as somebody who was drafted in the teens.

11:13Robert Mays: You had one interior offensive lineman go in the top 20. That was Ryan Kelly. And then you had a Fetty who was like kind of project ego at 31. And so there are like archetypally some similar boxes checked with this group as there were with that one. But even that group had Laramie Tunsil in 08. We had Jake long in 2013. We had three tackles drafted in the top four and they're just in, And then in 2024, we had Alt drafted at five. There isn't that sort of player in this group. So there's the volume, but it's weighed down in terms of the median quality because we don't have those true upper echelon prospects, Dane, as part of that equation.

11:51Whenever I'm asked about this offensive tackle class, I think I start every conversation with there's no Joe Alt in this class, no archetype of that prototypical left tackle that ideally a team like the Browns picking at six, that's what they want at that point in the draft. This draft just doesn't have that guy. And which along the lines of what Brandon was saying, how it feels incomplete, all of these tackles, it just feels like there's a part of their profile that's just missing that gives you a little bit of trepidation about them. And, you know, it's interesting. You mentioned a couple of years ago, like Troy Fonotano, like he reminds me a little bit of Spencer Fonotano And just a guy that I watch him, my eyes like what I see, but is he a tackle?

12:38Can he stay outside? Do we have to move inside? There's a lot of debate there from team to team and scheme to scheme and coach to coach. But yeah, I think it's really, especially when you frame it like that, just comparing it to other tackle classes, it shines a light on just how unique this group is.

12:58Robert Mays: I think Fautano is a good name to bring up there because it just reminds me of how shifted back all of this feels. I think a lot of people have compared Francis Maui Noah to Luis Flago in the process. Well, Luis Flago was the fourth tackle drafted in that draft, right? The third tackle drafted in that draft. And he was the 11th pick. And we're talking about Maui Noah at three. Fautano was the 20-something pick. And we're talking about Fano at 11. And so these are similar types of prospects that are being pushed up 10 spots further in the draft, Brandon. and then they might be in a typical class, which I think speaks to not only the quality of the offensive lineman, but the quality of the class overall.

13:35Yeah, that hits the nail on the head for me, just because if we were talking about some of these guys like Fano and Maui Noah a little bit later, then I'd be more comfortable with their profile and their projection. But yeah, once you get into the top 10 territory and you're expecting quickly for a guy to be pro-bowler, all-pro kind of caliber guy, I just don't see that in this class. And like, even going back to the class you mentioned with Tunsell, like, I mean, Ronnie Stanley to me is better than all these guys like coming out. Just he was so polished. And then Ryan Kelly was a blue chip center, which we don't have in this class either.

14:09Robert Mays: So do you think Ione in terms of an interior offensive lineman is in a similar tier of player as like a Ryan Kelly would be, though, coming into the draft? Probably. I didn't do like Ryan Kelly in conjunction with the whole class and all that type stuff back then. But I remember Kelly was just prototypical, you know, size and profile accomplishments, all that type of stuff. Yeah. I mean, Wenger to me is, you know, just a spoiler alert. Like he's to me the most complete offensive lineman in the draft by a hair over a couple of these other names we already talked about. But to me, Wenger is the guy who I look at, who I could poke the least amount of holes in and expect him to deliver the quickest impact regardless of situation.

14:48So that's yeah, that would be the guy for me in this class.

14:52Robert Mays: foie goes the fourth offensive tackle draft and i'm looking back at my notes right now but all right let's not spoil any more of the categories and let's just get into them and let's start with for the third time we've done this just a very simple question because there's debate at the top of this dane who is the number one offensive tackle in the 2026 draft based on what you've done and the rankings that you have yeah and i don't i guess we could put the off Offensive tackle and air quotes. For a lot of these guys, yes. For me, it's Spencer Fano from Utah. And he came in with plenty of buzz in terms of came into this season.

15:28Like going back in August and studying these guys over the summer, teams are really high on him. And I thought he had a fine year. It wasn't a dominant year. I don't think he took this massive jump in terms of his development. But I thought it was just kind of steady. What he showed last year, he built off of it a little bit, but he didn't separate himself as clearly a top 10 pick, clearly the top offensive lineman in the draft. Now, I still see him that way, but I think part of that is how good I feel about him moving forward and how there's still trajectory there, still ascension. He's, in terms of footwork, in terms of athleticism, he's off the charts.

16:10His movement skills are fantastic. He was the buzz coming out of the combine from talking to scouts that were in the stands watching him. Monroe Freeling's 40-yard dash got a lot of hype and some other things, but they were talking about Spencer Fano and the movement skills. And interesting enough, they also had him snapping and doing center drills because they want to see him do these other things. And I think that's part of this conversation as well is the perceived versatility with Fano. Some teams have him on the edges as a tackle. Other teams have him on the board as a guard. And his arms grew a little bit between the combine and the pro day, so he's closer to that 33 number that you want for a tackle.

16:52But I'm also encouraged by the fact that his wingspan is three inches longer than Will Campbell's was a year ago. And so the wingspan, I think, kind of you check that box. When Utah needed a yard, they ran behind No. 55. and he's not the most, like, he's not Venga Yawane in terms of this bulldozer at the point of attack in the run game, but he is somebody that with his movement skills and just the way he moves, he's going to, wherever he's going, short pulls, long pulls, he's going to get there on time and he's going to be able to execute and do his job. And so there's just enough about Fano that I think separates him as my top offensive lineman, but by no means do I think it's a runaway.

17:35Fonu for me is the guy that I would give an edge to for OT1 as well, barely over Francis Maui Noah, who I honestly see better inside. But same thing with Fonu. I just think he's a guy who I project being solid as a rookie at any of the five positions. So I'm not dead set on him playing tackle. I think he could and be at the level of maybe like a Zach Tom or like a Roger Rosengarten kind of right tackle in the league or, you know, he could take the Graham Barton or Mitch Morse route and project inside the center. I think those two kind of pathways for him, I think, would lend themselves to probably the same caliber of player who, you know, would be a solid player.

18:18But, you know, like Dane said, the things that are appealing about him is athletic ability. I think that's where you have to start in just movement skills. He's very rangy and fluid. And I think once he gets latched on blocks, he sustains well and he recovers well. and I love the competitive toughness and the effort and the strain and finishing and all that type of stuff that he brings so you know I think the movement skills and then the balance and the ability to to protect his edges and actually recover is is really impressive it's just by questions with him is play strength I think he is just a little kind of like a slightly built guy in some ways, and he doesn't really command, you know, the point of attack.

19:01And I think that that could be exposed a little bit more in the NFL, depending on the situation, of course. But yeah, and I also think the jump in terms of what he's asked to do likely will be significant for him. Because when you look at Utah's scheme and you watch them, they're, of course, a very run-heavy scheme. They ran the ball more than anybody in the Big 12. And they also played a lot of 12, 13 personnel, six offensive linemen. He just was, the line of scrimmage was packed, you know, when you watch Utah. And there are some instances, you know, where that everybody looks at against David Bailey and some of these guys where you see him one-on-one.

19:38But it's kind of few and far between when you stack his entire season of film. I mean, they're in heavy personnel often and running the ball like 65 % of the time or whatever. That's probably not going to be the case in the NFL. So, yeah, I mean, it's I like him, but, you know, and I give him the edge over Maui Noah. But I just I expect more solid here than like difference maker. Brandon, to your point, like they're just there aren't many offensive tackles currently in the league who just have that body structure. They don't look like him.

20:11Robert Mays: They just don't look like him. It's so strange to think about. David Bakhtiari is one that comes to mind where it's he's a little. Exactly. And Bakhtiari wasn't a good tester and he didn't have the size. And so it wasn't a mystery why he was in the fourth round player. But with Fano, obviously, we're talking about him as a top 20 guy. And yeah, it is it is interesting when you put it, look at it through that lens where it doesn't really look exactly like ideally you want it to look. You like the results, you like the player, but there's some risk involved here. So looking at the numbers, as Brandon was talking about, 95 true pass sets all year for Spencer Fano last season per PFF.

20:55Robert Mays: That is 233rd of 256 power four offensive tackles who played at least 50 % of their team's snaps. So what is asked of him and what was asked of Caleb Lomu is just going to be very different in the NFL, even if they end up in the right scheme compared to what it looked like in college. And I'm curious, you're talking about how you didn't necessarily see the dominance from Fano that last year that you might have expected given the expectations coming in. With the guy that has his physical profile, was that ever going to happen? Was he ever going to reach that level of dominance that you would want just based on how he's built?

21:30Robert Mays: Because you look at the way that he moves, and it feels like he checks all of those boxes. And I talked about this the first time we talked about it. I'm like, I'm enamored by what he looks like out there in terms of the movement skills and just so many different things that he's doing And the balance is just remarkable, like how often he's on his feet and how he can stay on his feet. And so, so many of those things are about as good as you can expect. And maybe you want to see more dominance. But for a player like this, like Brandon said, that may have some play strength concerns just based on how he's built, were we ever going to see that?

22:04Robert Mays: And if the answer is no, how does that play in to the evaluation, the projection moving forward? Yeah, I think that's fair because he's a narrow-shouldered, narrow-hipped type of body type. And he's not the longest player, obviously. And so against longer defensive linemen, there's only so much you can do. I expected the core, the anchor strength to be a little bit better this year as he continued just to grow. I mean, it's always tough when you watch a freshman or a sophomore and you just how much development, physical, mental, technical, how much the development to expect. And some guys kind of let you know, hey, I'm at my ceiling or I'm kind of hitting my head on the ceiling.

22:54I'm getting close. Other guys tease that ceiling or tease the ability to get better. and hey, I've still got a ways to go. And so Fano, I think there was hope that there would be more of a ceiling to go to. And I'm still hopeful for that. It just, we didn't necessarily see it consistently on the 2025 tape.

23:13Robert Mays: And you said that Francis Maui Noah was right there with you for, with Spencer Fano as your favorite offensive tackle in this class, but you see him maybe projecting a little bit better at guard. Let's just talk about Maui Noah as an idea first and kind of what he's bringing to the table. So Maui Noah is 11th on Dane's top 100. Spencer Fano was eighth. You had him, Dane, going three, though, in your latest seven-round mock, Francis Maui Noah, to the Arizona Cardinals. And that is ahead of where Spencer Fano was going. You had him at 11 to the Miami Dolphins. So let's talk about that first, Dane.

23:46Robert Mays: Why Maui Noah at three to Arizona, even if you, in particular, you personally had Fano higher in your top 100? I just think there's mixed opinions on who the top offensive tackle is. And so just the Cardinals aren't going to tell me what they're doing, but I'm going to listen to other teams who are telling me what they think the Cardinals are going to do. And so that's just kind of a hint at how I do a mock draft, basically. And with Now We Know, I'm 100 % in agreement. His best position, I think there's a very good chance, is going to be inside at guard. But I think there are several teams that are looking at it like, OK, we're going to let him fail outside because you watch his tape.

24:30And there's nothing about his tape that says, oh, yeah, he needs to move inside. I mean, I think you can look at the range and look at how it's going to get more difficult against NFL rushers and say, yeah, this might not work. But he's a 330-pound guy. You know, just the way he's built, the skill set, how seamless it should be if he did move inside. But I think when you look at Arizona and if they do go right tackle, because we know that's a need, Maui Noah, I think, does make sense for specifically what they could be looking for.

25:04Robert Mays: You look at the way that Maui Noah is built, and he's got that wide frame to him. It almost reminds me a little bit when I watched Kelvin Banks last year, where I was like, I think he can play tackle, but you just look how he's built. I could see him playing guard. And watching Maui Noah from behind, and you just see how that lower half is built, I had a similar thought. And it's funny, Dane, that you think that his best position is guard because I wanted to ask you guys, if you had to pick one of these players where I'm taking him and he has to be a tackle for me in week one and who would make you sleep easiest?

25:33Robert Mays: I think among all these guys, Francis Maui Noah is probably my answer. And I think we can all acknowledge he might be a better guard. And that just speaks to me about like the quality and the group that we're talking about here a little bit, Brandon. Yeah, and I think if I was to build that case, it would start with his play strength. And this is the opposite of Spencer Fano. You know, he can hold the point of attack and take ground when he needs to. And, you know, that's what you're getting with him. He's extremely densely built. I believe the play strength will translate. To me on film, especially body type-wise, he looks a lot like Jermaine Illuminor.

26:12And that to me is who he would project as a right tackle. He's just a stronger version, I think, to a little bit better. But that's the kind of right tackle I think you would probably get with Maui Noah. And then if you're projecting him inside, I just think the ceiling goes up from there. But yeah, that's the thing. It's the play strength, and that's what he brings. He's also just a really good run blocker in terms of his feel. He's polished in the run game, for sure, in a lot of respects. so like the earliest I could get really excited about him would be like 13 to the Rams you know because you know they're running duo they're running downhill him next to Dotson I mean that would be that'd be fun and he'd offer he'd get a lot of protection and passport passport of course you know as the Rams do they're really good at doing that so like that's to me where I could start to get excited but yeah top five top top ten as a tackle you know I just think the range like Dane hinted at, the athletic ability, the ability to redirect and protect moves across his face, especially if he's playing on an island and stuff like that.

27:22I just don't see him, you know, being very strong in that area. So, yeah, it's more of, again, just like a solid, you know, right tackle, especially in the right system. And then at guard, he could just fit in better in more schemes across the NFL, in my opinion.

27:41Robert Mays: the grip strength when you watch him is just so apparent and he has these massive hands he's the 85th percentile hands and when you watch him like that absolutely shows up there are a couple double teams i think it was in the indiana game i was watching where you see like the hip to hip like just double team movement with the guard and it's like all right i can understand like this guy is a run blocker in that sort of scheme what the appeal would be to a guy like francis maui noah all right before we move on let's take our first quick break you know that hoodie you can't stop reaching for The one that feels like a second skin, soft, warm, somehow makes you feel a little more grounded?

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30:42Robert Mays: All right, so those are the guys that I think a lot of people at Fano and Maui Noah that are likely going to go in the top half of the first round. Let's move our attention back to potentially the back half of the first round. Dane, I want your favorite swing among the back half of the first round offensive tackle prospects here. And I think this is a fair way to frame it because all the guys that we're going to talk about are at 17 or below in your top 100. For me, it's Monroe Freeling from Georgia. If we're talking three years from now and you tell me Freeling's the best tackle to come out of this draft, it's like, okay, yeah, I absolutely could see that.

31:17I think there's a very good chance if Freeling would have returned to school, we're talking about him as a top 10 pick next year. It's just, you know, he's a guy that had under 20 starts in college. I think Kirby Smart and the Georgia coaching staff were kind of cut off guard when he declared for the NFL draft. I think they were assuming they would get him back for one more year. But he played so well down the stretch. The more reps that he had, you saw him got better and better and better as a left tackle at Georgia. And so he's got that protoscopal body. He's got the length. He tested well. I think you see that on film with his ability to move.

31:53He's kind of a late bloomer in terms of the position and adding weight. And so he's still figuring things out in terms of how to use this this frame of his how to, you know, shift his weight in his movements. And so there's still things that he's connecting the dots. And you see that quite often. And that's why we're talking about him as my 17th overall player and not like a top 10 pick is there's still a disconnect about where he is now and where he could be. And absolutely, he has a good chance of getting there, but there's still a projection involved. But I think he is the, in terms of the true left tackles in this draft, I think he's the best one.

32:33Robert Mays: Where are you at on Freeling, Brandon? Because I know you have a different answer to this question. Yeah, I mean, I agree with a lot of what Dane said. I would just have a different answer, like you said. But, I mean, Freeling, he's straight out of central casting in terms of how you want your left tackle to look and move. So there's that, and he's young. You know, he turns 22 in July. So, yeah, I mean, but, you know, one-year starter. He's, you know, expectedly very raw. I have concerns, again, about his play strength, maybe not like raw strength. And, you know, I love the way he's built. He's broad.

33:06He's dense, all that type of stuff, long. but specifically in the run game you know his ability or inability I should say to sustain blocks on like the base angle drive kind of like I need to uproot this defensive lineman on my own sort of blocks I think he's really susceptible to getting push pulled off of his feet getting overextended he's on the ground maybe more than you would like to see from the central casting sort of left tackle. I think leverage and his ability to play with consistent leverage is a real question. And you see that manifest in pass protection a little bit as well in terms of being set up by moves here and there, letting guys into his chest, playing tall, playing high.

33:50I mean, he is tall, so that's going to be kind of an uphill battle for him to mitigate that, you know, with good hands and good timing and all that type of stuff. So yeah, he could certainly pay off and you could see a Colton Miller type guy, you know, in a few years, I think that that is certainly on the table, but I just think situation is going to matter immensely for him. And, you know, I, that's why I have a second round grade on him. And I know he's going to go in the first, but I just think you're, you're rolling the dice a little bit more than I would be comfortable with for like a top 10, 20 sort of pick, you know, end of the first is where I would start to be open to, you know, getting Freeling, I think, more so than up there.

34:32That Colton Miller parallel, I think, is spot on. I mean, it's kind of what I wrote down to a guy that when he was coming out of UCLA, there are these big question marks about, okay, well, he's not near ready. And, you know, is he ever going to realize the potential? And I don't think the Raiders have any regrets about making that selection in the mid-first round. And so, like we said, there's obviously some risk involved with a player like this. But in the mid-first round, I definitely think it's worth it at that point.

35:02Robert Mays: I think we're having, those are two different conversations that I think are worth having. Mid-first round for a player like this, if he ends up being Colton Miller, that totally makes sense. But I think that some people have framed his ceiling as higher than that. Where with Colton Miller, you like the movement skills, like what he brings as a pass blocker, but you still have concerns about what he's bringing in terms of physicality, the play strength, all of that. And I feel like in some of the ways I've seen Freeling framed in this process, it's that those concerns don't exist to the same level they might with a Colton Miller, where he's worth drafting a little bit higher because he has this sky high ceiling.

35:39Robert Mays: And Brandon, the way that you're talking about him, I don't think you see Monroe Freeling as that type of prospect. No, I don't. I mean, I compared him to Anthony Costanzo, too. That's a late first round pick who I watched when I first started studying tape and stuff. And, you know, Costanza was solid to good for, you know, a while. That's what I see more so here. Same with Colton Miller's on that level as well. I don't think Colton Miller was ever really a top 10 left tackle. You know, maybe flirted with that a little bit, but he was more like top 15. Just a guy you definitely want, and you'd probably draft him in the first round again, especially, you know, mid to late.

36:13But, yeah, I just don't see an all-pro on the table here personally. I mean, would it be shocking? No, but I just wouldn't bet on that. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of where I land on him. And, again, I just think situation is so important. And when you're talking about later first, there's some situations there that would get me excited about him. But, yeah.

36:37Robert Mays: When you talk situation, are you talking schematic or are you just in terms of, like, development plan and the ecosystem that they would land in with the track record that that team has with offensive linemen? I think both and in addition to that, also the construction of the offensive line room and the expectations placed upon him early. So you think of somewhere like Philly, you know, where he wouldn't have to necessarily play. I'd get excited about Chicago just because of the infrastructure there, play next to Tooney, that scheme. I'd get excited in San Francisco because he doesn't have to play.

37:07and he has, you know, an elite guy to learn from, you know, New England even, you know, where he wouldn't have to play necessarily right away and he could kind of, you know, get eased into things. So, yeah, there's a bunch of teams, you know, outside the top 20 that would get me excited. But, yeah, I think the construction of the room and just where he has a little bit of runway to kind of ease into things and he's not the guy, you know, like in Cleveland, that one worries me because, you know, the new scheme the quarterback's not necessarily going to help you I don't think you know and then is Zion Johnson going to be kind of a stabilizing force for you I have my doubts so it's just that one is like more there's more burden on him early and I think that kind of worries me a little

37:51Robert Mays: bit with a player like this you guys know have a lot more than me I watch him and he's one of those guys where I just I choose to see it with a little bit of rose-colored glasses where like I watch the way he moves and you just think about how young he is and it's just easy to talk myself into the runway and i'll say this in terms of how he's been framed the colton miller comparisons the idea that he's this easy mover with some play strength concerns his mentality was different than i expected it to be like he does bring a little bit of grit to like when he needs to uproot people he had a rep against keldrick falk is like a head up defensive end out of the shadow of his own goalpost against auburn where i was like all right i can with that like i i like that And so there were more there was more of that than I expected there to be with a guy that kind of had been painted the way that he had Monroe Freeling.

38:41Robert Mays: And so I think I like the upside case a little bit more than you guys do. But again, you guys have watched much more of him than I have. And one one thing I'll just interject here, like for me, this really resonated with me when Daniel Jeremiah said this on a podcast recently. He was talking about how he views first round picks and he tends to gravitate towards the idea of hitting it down the fairway and hitting doubles with his firsts. And I'm in the same camp, you know, personally, especially from as a media member. Like, you know, if I was scouting for the Eagles, I would have a different grade on Monroe Freeling.

39:17But, you know, where I'm projecting all 32 as an outsider kind of like I want to hit it down the fairway. So that's why maybe another guy we'll talk about here shortly is a guy that I favor a little bit.

39:29Robert Mays: I'm the opposite way where with the offensive lineman, it's not my job. Like I can bet on the upside all day because I'm not the one making the pick. And it's funny because with other positions, I'm the opposite of this. And Dane, one of my takeaways, the last point I wanted to make about Freeling, when I was watching the Auburn game back, I walked away from that game feeling very different about Keldrick Falk than I did about the other games that I had seen. He was lined up as like a wide defensive end, a lot more in that game. You saw some of the pass rush potential. And so that, it's funny because I was impressed by Freling in that game in some ways, but I also walked away from, also because Freling played hurt in that game.

40:03Robert Mays: He had gotten hurt the week before. There's a lot of stuff there. But watching Keldrick Falk in that Auburn-Georgia game, I was like, okay, I kind of do see this. I kind of do see like what this could be with Keldrick Falk. Georgia was probably Falk's most promising game, most promising tape. I think that is absolutely fair. And part of it is, you know, a lot of those times he was going up against Freeling, who they went back and forth. And with Freeling, I think that was part of the why it was easy to kind of catch on with him is because you watch him in September. You have one thought. You watch him in October.

40:40You have another. Then you watch him November. remember it's like, okay, this is getting better and better in terms of mixing up his past sets. And, oh, he's still, no, that's a negative rep, but he came back. And, you know, it felt like he was learning. It felt like he was progressing. And I think that gives you optimism. But it's interesting that, you know, those two players in particular going up against each other, two guys that are, you know, toolsy guys that you expect to be better pros than what they showed in college.

41:06Robert Mays: It's a fascinating case study when it comes to, like, how you think about and talk about and watch prospects. So, Dane, your answer for your favorite back end of round one swing was Monroe Freeling, who you were going at 17 to the Lions. Brandon, you had a different answer for who your favorite back end of round one swing was at offense tackle. Who was that for you? Yeah, I mean, you know, for me, this is Blake Miller, you know, at Clemson. And, you know, I just... Right down the fairway, baby. Exactly. You know, precisely. That's exactly what it is, man. I mean, you just look at his profile and it just screams, you know, instant, long time, solid starter.

41:45And yeah, I mean, it's really like that cut and dry. I mean, we could get into, dig into it a little bit, like, you know, extremely durable, extremely accountable and tough. And like Dane said in The Beast, I think he missed one or two practices, whatever it was over the course of four years. And I think it's really cool that he's a four-year starter and he's still young. And I think usually we think of four-year starters as a 24-year-old. He's 22. So I think that's kind of a cool juxtaposition there that makes him appealing to me because I think there's still a little bit more to extract out of him, you know, in terms of consistency and technique, as there is with most guys, but, you know, more so than you would think with a four-year starter.

42:28And he just kind of checks all the boxes in terms of all the things you want to see. I mean, is anything overwhelmingly, you know, close to elite with him? I don't think so. His football character is elite, but I just think the tools are just all solid. Athletic ability, play strength, power, competitive toughness, processing, all that type of stuff. And yeah, I mean, I compared him to like the present day, like Colton McKivitts, you know, who I think McKivitts early on took a while, you know, it's pretty rough out there. But the last year and a half, the last year and a half, Colton McKibbs is a different player.

43:05And he's just rock solid now, in my opinion. He's one of the 10 probably best right tackles in the league. So that's kind of how I see Blake Miller from day one. So to me, again, this is a second round graded player who I would be comfortable, you know, at the tail end of the first for those reasons. It's funny, just to give the listeners an idea of our process. So Brandon and I, we're texting constantly throughout the year as we watch these guys. And don't let me speak for you, but I feel like Blake Miller is a little bit of an acquired taste for both of us just because there's just parts of his game that you're like, I don't know, he's a little rigid.

43:49But then you just keep watching him and he keeps executing. You find out more about him in terms of the football character, the way he processes things, the way that, you know, you mentioned the experience, all the starts. He plays like a four-year starter. You know, he plays like a guy that is minimizing mental mistakes and getting the most out of what he has. And so I think that that first tape you watch, you're like, eh, okay. You know, maybe he could be a day two guy. I don't know. We'll see. But then the more you watch, you just gain this appreciation for him.

44:22Robert Mays: Colton McKivitt is a good name to throw out because I was going to mention a couple other guys here because I think some fans would hear, oh, he's just merely like a starting caliber right tackle. Is that somebody you want to draft in the first round? Colton McKivitt makes$15 million a year. A lot of those guys in that range, like those starting caliber right tackles, Zach Tom might be a little bit underpaid in that like 20-ish that he makes, but you look at a guy like Caleb McGarry, who if you look at the physical conference in terms of RAS, we can talk about that in a second with Blake Miller.

44:50Robert Mays: I think that's another question. But his physical comp, one of his biggest physical comps is Caleb McGarry. Caleb McGarry was an older prospect. They're different as players. But when you think about them tiered as right tackles, Caleb McGarry got$17.5 million on that second contract. And everyone was kind of like, yeah, that makes sense. Like that is what you have to pay a starting caliber right tackle. And so there's a lot of value in finding a guy that is workable at that position, even if there isn't any one single trait, Brandon, of who they are, like a guy like Blake Miller coming into the draft happens to be.

45:22Yeah, and just when you stack right tackle and left tackle, just the fact of the matter is like right tackle just isn't deep, you know, compared to left tackle. Left tackle is very deep in the NFL. So if you could get a solid or better right tackle, I think that's even in some sense just like it's extremely valuable because if you are a high-end, super talented tackle, you're going to be playing left most likely first. There are, of course, you know, Panesu and Lane Johnson, you know, who says otherwise, but there's just a shorter list of those guys. The drop off at right tackle happens sooner than left.

45:57So I think it's even, that makes it that much more valuable to get a guy like Blake Miller out there who, you know, is going to be right away like a top 10, 12 right tackle, in my opinion, in the league. So, yeah, I mean, I like him better than McGarry, too. You know, I just think McGarry is such a, you know, just a run-dominant sort of player.

46:17Robert Mays: Very specific type of player, yes. Yeah, yeah. Where Blake Miller's just real steady kind of across the board. So, yeah, I mean, I could see like a Taylor Bolton-level kind of guy eventually, you know, that kind of caliber player. So, yeah, I like Blake Miller. And like Dane said, the more you watch him, the more you learn about him, the more he grows on you, for sure. Dane, were you surprised by how Blake Miller tested? A little. I mean, he was like a 32 and a half vert. It's very good for context. Right, 32 and a half vert. He was just around five flat in the 40. Like, it was good. It wasn't average.

46:57It was more good than average. And I think that, because it's funny. I was having this conversation with a scout the other day about how fans would be floored, I think, by the amount of times the word adequate is used in a scouting report. It's the most used word in NFL scouting reports over any other word. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with adequate. But I think he was a little bit better than adequate in terms of his testing, which I don't know that I necessarily expected. I didn't expect a bad athlete, but I think he was a little bit above that. And I mean, that's good for him in terms of where he could go in this draft.

47:35What does that do for you?

47:36Robert Mays: When you see a guy like Blake Miller, who you see as more of an adequate athlete, tests like that, does that make you think, oh, maybe there's a little bit more meat on the bone than I expected? Or does it make you think, why doesn't this show up, this level of athlete, more often when I'm watching a player like Blake Miller? I mean, this goes with every position, right? If a guy tests different than you expected based on the film, you owe it to the player and to yourself, the evaluation, and go back and kind of look and see and figure out why. And Miller was one of those guys, especially because we didn't have him.

48:06He wasn't a senior bowl guy. He didn't do an all-star game. So we didn't have that data point. And, you know, Clemson's season was so up and down this year. I mean, just the same conversation we're having with TJ Parker and Avian Terrell and all these Clemson guys that are going to go top 50. It just, it was almost a disaster season for Clemson as a whole. But going back and just watching him And I think that you have to make, you have to figure out where you stand in terms of, all right, he's not a big time athlete. He doesn't always play up to those testing numbers, but I think he clears the bar.

48:41And that's what it comes down to for me is just, does he clear the bar? Even if I don't always see those testing numbers, as long as he clears the bar, I feel okay about it.

48:50Robert Mays: All right, let's move to the inside boys here. Your best interior offensive lineman in this draft, Brandon, is who? Venga Iwane from Penn State with the bullet. Yeah, there, I mean, even with Maui Noah projected inside, I still have Venga just a touch above just because less of a projection there, you know, just playing the position he played in college. So, yeah, I just think he is the cleanest overall prospect in the draft, especially as I finished his season out and just the consistency that you see all the things that you want to see from him. And another guy who largely is kind of out of central casting, except he's polished, you know, as well, much more polished than, you know, a guy like Monroe Freeling who checks all the physical boxes as well.

49:35But, yeah, I mean, to me, he reminds me a lot of like a Mike Upati, just a little bit smaller. Yeah, very similar to Upati, dude. Except there's some differences, of course. I see that.

49:47Robert Mays: I see that, though. Yeah, yeah. The play style is very similar. It's just he's a little smaller, but he's also more athletic. But yeah, I think he is above average at pretty much everything or better. And I think his power and play strength is very good. I don't really see a weakness that you could poke a hole in here, aside from maybe level of competition not being great this year. But he's asked to do a little bit of everything. You see him execute every block you could want to see him execute. And I think any kind of scheme, uh i just think he would upgrade a lot of places at left guard and maybe even right guard but um yeah i mean i think about him in a place like oh man i don't like of course baltimore's chalk you know i mean baltimore of course that would make a ton of sense but there's a reason it just like you could just see it and like you can see it transforming what they want that offense to be especially after last year when that line just didn't play the way that you wanted it to after 2023.

50:48And if he slips outside the top 20, I mean, Pittsburgh, that is all day losing Ciamalu and putting in Venga or the Chargers. Oh yeah. The Chargers. Chargers would do backflips.

51:01Robert Mays: They would be doing backflips if he was there at 22. Those are the floors, I think 21, 22. But yeah, I mean, like there's, there's just a lot of situations where I could see Venga being a good player from day one with that Pro Bowl sort of potential there as well. And, you know, for those reasons to me, like he's my favorite guy in the draft that I would kind of stand on the table for highest in the first round. Brandon, if you're the GM of the Ravens and both Fano and Ioane are there, does the potential versatility of what Fano offers, does that give him a little bit of an edge or are you still going with your your top offensive lineman there yeah I would probably still go with my top offensive lineman there because I have tackle you know situated you know at least at least right now so so Fana would have to move positions um so that in you know brings in a little bit of variance there whereas Vanga you just slot him into where he's always played and you know you just hit the ground running so yeah I lead Vanga in that situation personally I was talking to an offensive coordinator recently about this idea of how you when you draft a guard in the first round and what type of player they have to be and anytime you're slotting a tackle inside to guard even if you think they're better there there's always at least a little bit of projection where you don't know how it's going to go and so even if the theoretical upside of a Maui no is higher than I than you want I just based on what he's bringing to the table there's always a little bit of uncertainty and something he said that I think I'll you never you guys know this sometimes you hear something from a coach or an evaluator and it changes the way that you think about things forever it's just so incisive and well stated and he said to me he's like if you're going to draft a premium player in the first round they need to change practice practice needs to feel different because that guy is there and i wonder dane do you think you want to is that sort of guard prospect if you're going to draft him in the top half of the first round where he potentially changes the way your offense feels during practice um i i think he has at least that ability like i we're not gonna put the quentin nelson type of comp on like that yeah i'm not gonna do that but i i do think um hearing from teams after the combine just like how his interviews went they were all just glowing i mean just in terms of the way he carries himself the way he answered questions um he like The physical nature that he plays with, he doesn't come off that way off the field, but there's a switch that flips when he's on the field, whether it's practice or in games.

53:40So, yeah, I don't want to – I comped him to Steve Avila, that type of player. But I do think he has it in him to drastically stand out. When he's out there, when your owner comes out and we're looking at training camp, I don't think the owner is going to have to ask, so who was our first-round pick? I think it's pretty easy to spot him, even if he's a guard.

54:04Robert Mays: That's kind of what I mean. It's just one of those guys where when you watch practice, it's like, all right, it feels different because he's out there. He doesn't have to be Quentin Nelson in order for that to be true. But I think that probably checks the box. Spoiler, your answer is also Venga Juane for this, Dane. Yeah, there's just not a ton of guesswork here. you know when I do my reports in the beast I want at least five bullet points for the negatives and it's like all right he missed one game this year so that's a negative he only played left guard in college that's a negative no proven experience or no proven versatility here but it's you're reaching a little bit because this is a and he's a good athlete not an elite athlete but certainly, again, clears the bar for what you're going to be asking him to do.

54:53The physicality, the violence that he plays with, especially in the run game, just thinking about that Oregon tape or the Iowa tape. Just, yeah, this is a player I want on my team.

55:03Robert Mays: You had him at 15 in your seven-round mock, and it's funny because when I did the On the Clock show we did with Lance a couple weeks ago, we were talking about the Bucs at 15, and I gave him Ioane as one of the options, and that's what he went with. Even if it's not like the biggest screaming need, If you look at the Bucs roster in his mind and clearly in yours, when you were looking at the other players available at 15, you were like, this guy's too good for me not to draft him here, even with more positions of needs available. Yeah. And I think in that position, I think the Bucs are going to go best player available.

55:37And I don't know, there wasn't an edge rusher there that they, you know, obviously edge rusher and linebacker are two positions they need very badly, but there just weren't the obvious names there. And instead of reaching for one of those positions, we're going to take the best player available. I think that's to me what, when I think about Jason Light and what he's, how he's going to attack the draft, you could do a lot worse than a guy like Ioane, who is going to step in from day one, create competition, and he's going to get on the field.

56:02Robert Mays: All right, before we move on, let's take one more quick break.

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57:52Robert Mays: All right, so the number one interior offensive lineman, that was an easy answer for both you guys. There is a little bit of a difference of opinion here, though. Brandon, your favorite day two interior offensive lineman in this draft is who? This is Keelan Rutledge from Georgia Tech. It is my guy. He's the first guy in the class that I kind of like dub my guy whenever it was October or whatever. I saw the Virginia Tech tape. You have a type, my friend. You are easy to pin down. I do, especially when you're talking day two. Like, you know, then I'm all aboard. But, yeah, the Virginia Tech game, anytime you're in like one of those power four schools and you get double-digit pancakes in a game, like, you know, you're going to be probably a guy I pay close attention to.

58:37And then you watch him against Georgia, and he's still, you know, kind of manhandling guys in that game. So, of course, he brings that. He's, you know, the way he's built and the amount of force that he can generate on contact on the first and second level is just, you know, that plays in the NFL. And that's going to allow him to kind of get on the field right away, I think. And then I think the athletic ability is really underrated. I think the testing may have opened some people's eyes a little bit to it. But it's also evident when you watch him on film when he's climbing to the second level.

59:10and his ability to line up linebackers, especially fast-flowing linebackers. I'm not talking about slow-footed linebackers who are reading and, you know, he gets to tee off. I'm talking about guys he has to track on outside zone, you know, lining up those sorts of guys from the back and the front side. That, to me, was where I got really excited about him. And then you learn more about him as a person, how he prepares, the stuff that he's overcame and his football character and then I sat down with him for an hour and did the film room and that was kind of the cherry on top because it was just like I felt like I was talking to a pro um so it's just like yeah he has stuff to clean up with his technique he he has that sort of aspect to him where you got to reel him in a little bit and he can get a little sloppy with some of his technique um but if that's like my biggest ding on him then like you know I this is a guy I would definitely get very very excited about I I wound up comparing him to Dylan Fairchild.

1:00:08I think he reminds me a lot of Fairchild. So especially with how Fairchild played this year, which was a little better than I thought. Yeah, so that's the kind of caliber of guard I think you would probably get with him. And then there's talk that he may play center. And then, you know, Ryan Jensen's on the table. And then I get super excited as well. He took some center snaps at the Senior Bowls. That was good to see. And I know teams that have been bringing him in and working him out, they've been having him snap. And so just showing that you could have that versatility because, you know, the centers in this class, it's not a bad group of centers.

1:00:41They're all just kind of third round guys, fourth round guys, guys that could pan out and be solid starters, but maybe not. If he turns out and can be have that position flex, I think that that's only going to help him and maybe even get him into that first round, get him into that top 40. It's interesting. When I was talking to a scout about him, the scout never called him Keelan. He never called him Rutledge. He just called him Red. That's just what he goes by is just Red. That's what he called him the entire conversation, and it was awesome. When you're head coach, like Brent Key, the Georgia Tech head coach, he's a true football guy.

1:01:18He's an O-line guy, yeah. He was an offensive line coach at Alabama at one point, yeah. True football guy, and he said flat out he's the toughest guy, toughest guy I've ever coached. That carries weight. That is saying quite a bit. So, yeah, that is.

1:01:35Robert Mays: His beast entry, Dane, there were so many things I wanted to ask you about. The center thing was one of them. And just, you know, do we think he could play center? The fact that he had been doing it. And so the fact that Brandon's excited about his upside there and that multiple teams have been putting him through that workout, I think that's notable. You mentioned that you got a quote from a scout that said, if the ACC had a Royal Rumble, I'd be betting on this guy to be the last man standing, which I absolutely love. One of the negatives, I was curious about what you meant by this. You said that there's some choppy footwork stuff and then segmented body control is something that you meant.

1:02:06Robert Mays: What do you mean when you say that? A guy has segmented body control as a potential negative on a guy like Keelan Rutledge. So I'm thinking maybe the Clemson tape. Is that kind of going through the Rolodex of all the different clips of him this year? You don't have to pin down the moment that it happened in order to... I'm just, it helps me explain it by figuring that out. But I think that, you know, especially on the move, like he's a good athlete. And to Brandon's point, a better athlete than I think myself and others gave him credit for, which showed in the testing. But it just, there were points where it looked a little rigid.

1:02:44It looked a little, okay, my feet here, my hips here, and then my hand. And there were times where it just wasn't fluid when he was either reaching a defensive tackle or climbing to a linebacker. There were just these segmented parts of when he was executing. And not to the point where it's something that I think is going to stop him from being a good pro or anything like that. Just one of those areas where I think he can clean up.

1:03:09Robert Mays: Well, it's hard to be fluid when you're playing rabid, Dane. It's just one of those things. Sometimes you have to choose one or the other. So Keelan Rutledge is Brandon's favorite day two interior offensive line prospect. Who is your favorite day two interior offensive lineman in this class, Dane? So I went with Chase Besontis, who very well might go in the first round. It's possible. But I think that just going based off of where most people expect him to go second round, I felt comfortable going with him here. He's another one where you hear the coaches talk about what he does in the weight room and what he does outside of just what the tape says, and it helps just get you more excited about the player.

1:03:51Not the longest player. That worries me a little bit. You see that lack of length show up at times, but he's so physical and strong. I mean, he's a guy that grew up modeling his game after Quentin Nelson, and I think it shows a little bit with the way he wants to play. He's efficient as a mover. The way he, whether, you know, think about that Texas A &M offense and, you know, some of the zone runs, some of the outside pools, the way he can get out in space. I feel very comfortable with him doing that. And so I just think that, and this is a three-year player. He's young, he's growing, and he's still kind of, I think, on the ascension, a guy that's going to get better and better.

1:04:28So not a complete player yet. I have a little bit of concern about the position flex. I know he played right tackle, but he's not playing right tackle in the league. He played a little bit of right tackle as a freshman. Last two years, he's been a left guard. I have a little bit of questions about, okay, do I feel comfortable with him at right guard? Can he play even some center? So that's a little bit of an unproven part of his profile. But the player and where he's headed, I feel really good about those two things.

1:04:55Robert Mays: You had him at 28 in your seven-round mock that came out today, and the blurb underneath it essentially was, based on how much several teams like Besantis, good chance Ioana isn't the only guard drafted in round one. Teams feel like there's going to be another guard drafted in round one, and the three names that keep coming up are Rutledge, Besontis and Jennings Dunker. There's a feeling around the league that one of those guys is going to sneak into round one. And so I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's Rutledge. I think Besontis has a really good chance as well. I think as early as probably the Chargers or the Steelers, I think we're on, assuming that Venga goes, say, 14 to the Ravens, I think once we get to the 20s, we're on watch for where that second guard could come off the board.

1:05:45Robert Mays: Let's just very quickly, I want to hear you talk about this. Let's talk about a player like Besontas versus one of the incomplete edge prospects. You pick whatever one you want that might be available at 22, let's say if you're the Chargers, and you need that third edge player. What does that conversation look like when you think about the type of prospect Besontas is compared to the types of maybe premium positions that might be available at 22? Yeah, it's interesting when you frame it like that, because, you know, it's in terms of position value and what traditionally you're drafting in the first round.

1:06:19I think it's fair to say that gives the edge to edge. So I think that it's just in terms of that looking at it through that lens, you would lean in that direction as a more premium position. But at the same time, you look at, say, a team like the Chargers, who obviously have a need at guard. And if they don't love their options based off of, and they don't have a ton of draft picks. No, five. Right. And if they don't love, they have both their day two picks, though, right? I'm pretty sure. Second and third, they don't have a fifth or a seventh. Exactly. So if they don't, but maybe they don't love their options in day two, or maybe they have a high enough grade on Besontis where it's like, okay, Instead of dipping into our second round edges, we feel good about Besontas being closer to the top of that list.

1:07:06And so I just think, you know, obviously there's so many different factors that go into it. But with Besontas especially, I don't know. I see a guy that's strong. He moves well. And then I think a guy that not only has the physical capabilities, but he feels like a guy that is a sponge. and like he gets better as the more experience he has, the more, you know, he'll make a mistake, but then he learns from it and gets better because of it. And again, everything in the background. So like the strength and conditioning coach for A &M, Tommy Moffitt, doing this for 30 years and it was at LSU forever.

1:07:43He came out and said that this is the best squat I've ever seen was Besantis and talking about how he's the strongest player he's ever coached. Like that kind of stuff is like, all right, that, that I'm going to remember that because that I know, I know you're not saying that lightly.

1:08:00Robert Mays: It's in my notes. It was one of the things I was going to ask you about before we moved on. And let's do that right now. Let's get to, we'll get back to some of the tackle prospects here. These two categories are similar, but different enough. And I think it's important to acknowledge both of them. The first one, Brandon, is I wanted to ask you the highest ceiling for a player, if it works out. And we're going to talk about floor ceiling, but this is different. This doesn't mean the guy has to have a low floor. So if this player works out, whoever your choice happens to be, they have the highest ceiling of any of the tackles in this draft.

1:08:33Robert Mays: Who would that player be for you? Yeah, my answer here was Alabama left tackle Caden Proctor. Has to be, yeah. And it's purely just going off of his physical traits in terms of, yes, height, weight, arm length, you know, that kind of stuff. but it's the way he's built. The amount of lean muscle mass on his frame is pretty rare. And then the ability to generate power at the point of attack, his initial quickness and initial explosiveness, both out of his stance and then into defenders at the point of attack is higher than anybody in the class. So if you can kind of build everything out beyond that point, then you could have a player that could be an all pro or pro bowl kind of guy potentially even at guard but I mean I know this was for tackle um so yeah I mean I just think that bridge though from there and into sustaining blocks and adjusting you know deep into reps when guys are able to string stuff together and set you up that's where it just kind of falls apart and it becomes a real boom or bust sort of feel.

1:09:46So I think he's going to need a lot of coaching, you know, go to the right situation where he's offered protection in terms of as a pass protector, you know, with, you know, like a run first play action heavy, you know, schemed help on obvious pass down sort of situation, you know, that sort of stuff, at least early on. So we could kind of gain some confidence and hone his technique. But like you're just working with a guy who could potentially be fireworks, you know, if it all works out. But it also can just, you know, Peter out and he just never gets it. And he's just losing glaringly three or four times a game like he did in college.

1:10:22So I, you know, I landed as a second round grade on him, but like, I don't know what's going to happen with Caden Proctor. I just, I don't know. You know, I had big expectations coming into the year and I was really let down by him this season. So that may cloud kind of how I see him a little bit, But another guy, I think the more you kind of learn about the way he works and stuff, I think you'd be surprised. He's not, you know, kind of like a guy who's lackadaisical about work. So that's kind of encouraging to me as well.

1:10:55Robert Mays: It's important because of the weight, right, Dan? I mean, the fact that he is somebody that's willing to work and you may not have to be quite as worried about him maintaining that if it's in the right situation compared to some of these other bigger guys we've seen. It's at least part of the consideration when you're thinking about what you're willing to bet on Proctor. right and i mean he was over 350 at the at the combine um what was he at the pro day 358 so it's a big boy um i i don't brandon you tell me if i'm wrong but i've never heard of a 350 plus pounder jumping over 32 inches and no his testing was special it was really special his vertical was all-time great i think at 350 plus um and then even what else was it that uh He tested well at, I can't remember.

1:11:42And one broad. Yeah, if you compare him to 350-pound-plus guys, his stuff was pretty special in terms of the linear testing. But the vert was all-time. Yeah, talking to a scout, I was talking to him as he was leaving the Alabama Pro Day, and maybe he was just high on the workout, literally. But he said it was the best offensive line workout he had ever seen, Caden Proctor. and said definitively, if we felt better about the person and the consistency, like that he was going to reach his full potential, he would be a top five lock in this draft. So that just goes straight to exactly what this question is asking in terms of the ceiling.

1:12:28It's rare to find a guy like this with this type of ability. It's just how confident are you he's going to get there? And I think the conversation about him potentially starting at guard is interesting. And that's why not to say I get excited about that. Yeah. Yeah. You said you can or you can.

1:12:45Robert Mays: I can because then Carl Nix is on the table and, you know, guys like that, you know, when I when I watched him, it was the first place my mind went because there's just such there's so much less space to navigate if you move him inside to guard. Exactly. I'm not worrying about those inside moves. Yeah. Wow, yeah. That's why, not to step on best fits, but that's why I love that fit with him in Philly. Just thinking about plug him in a guard, and then hopefully, you know, maybe in two years you move him to right tackle, or you move him out to tackle, but maybe in two years you don't want to, because at that point he's a Pro Bowl guard.

1:13:22Yeah, I think he's one of the wild cards of the first round. I don't think he's going to go top 10 or anything like that, but he could easily go in the teens, or he could just as well go 15 picks later. He's a hard one to figure out.

1:13:37Robert Mays: Where does he need to be more consistent in your mind, Dan Proctor? Because we talk about this sky-high ceiling, and then you talk about he just needs to be more consistent. Where are those things that need to get ironed out, and do we have confidence that a guy like Ken Proctor can iron those things out? A lot of it comes down to just the leverage that he needs to play with. you know and that comes in pass pro that's you know his landmarks and understanding what the rusher is trying to do to him it just for a guy that size he shouldn't lose that positional leverage as much as he does right I mean Brandon like that's kind of what you're thinking right yeah yeah absolutely I think he plays way too passively for a guy 350 pounds and then it turns into basketball on grass and it's this one-on-one island game and you just he's too good of an athlete it's it's incepted him into thinking he's something that he's not yeah it really has like if he's playing more aggressively you know and like a play action sort of heavy scheme where he could jump set and even non-play action where he could kind of dictate terms a little bit set more flat on guys you know I know wide nine guys you can't really do that but then set more vertical so you make them come to you but this 45 degree angle set you know that's like the Trent Williams sort of set or, you know, like the Lane Johnson sort of set, like that's just not what you do at 350 plus pounds.

1:14:57Nobody wins like that when you're 350 plus. And I think that has put him in positions to where it's made him look like maybe not as good of an athlete as he really is because he's getting manipulated out of these positions so easily. And then guys are making him look, frankly, silly on a lot of reps because I think it is a positional leverage thing, in terms of his relationship between the defender and the quarterback. Yeah, he needs a lot of work in that regard, and it also translates into the run game as well. He has some over-aggressive tendencies where he can overextend. I think it's really important for people to watch his 2024 tape as well next to Tyler Booker because I thought you saw many more flashes last year, and it's honestly why I was so excited about him this year.

1:15:42And then this year he just took a step back. um so yeah but the 2024 film was better uh and you you see more of it there so yeah he's he's a tough one to figure out though it's weird talking about Alabama and offensive line as like I I just I don't I don't have a lot of confidence in the way they were coached um I especially as of late right well I'm saying since Saban left um yeah I mean it just it's been different and it's not It wasn't just a Proctor problem. All five of the starting offensive linemen this year for Alabama, it seemed like they took a step back. And so they made some changes this offseason, which were overdue.

1:16:21But it's hard to put into context how that factors into the evaluation as well.

1:16:29Robert Mays: The other guy I wanted to at least bring up here was Max Lahanachor from Arizona State because I wasn't sure if we were going to get to him otherwise. Dane, do you think he's in the conversation for a guy who might have the highest ceiling among this entire group. Yeah, I think you have to mention him. He's a guy that's been playing football for five years. And so there's just no substitute for experience. And for as much hype as he got at the Senior Bowl, he had plenty of negative plays in the Senior Bowl as well, where you saw that youth and that inexperience. But at the same time, we're talking about a guy that's 6 '6", 320 pounds, and that dancing bear that you like so much.

1:17:07And it's not like he came out of nowhere. In my August top 50 coming into the year, he made it. He was in there. I was excited to see what he could look like in year two as a starter at Arizona State. And it was a little bit up and down at times, but the talent is still there. I think that when is he going to be able to get on the field? And I think this is where maybe the biggest disconnect is between who you ask in the league, team to team, coach to coach, is can you throw him out there from day one and just let him learn on the fly? Is he going to have to miss, or is he going to have to, you know, just wait, you know, half a year?

1:17:44Does he need a redshirt year? I think that's the biggest disconnect when you talk to teams about, because that obviously affects his value in the draft about where exactly you draft him and stack him with these other guys. But in terms of ceiling, yeah, I understand certainly why you would bring him up in this conversation.

1:17:57Robert Mays: Brent, I think you're relatively a little lower on Ihana Chor than a lot of people in the industry have been post-senior bowl, and since he's kind of gained a little bit of steam. Would you say that's fair? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, he's a guy that kind of like Freeling where central casting, right, the way he looks, the way he just moves, some of the flashes of power. Like it's, I get all that, you know, elite testing. But I just think he's more raw than even Freeling is. And then part of that is due to his newness of football, like Dane mentioned. I think that's a really important context.

1:18:34But I still see a pretty low floor with him. And I don't see as high of a ceiling personally, just because I think he has a ways to go with his understanding of footwork, hands and pass protection, protecting himself in terms of his frame and his chest and getting manipulated. And like, you know, I think the Texas Tech game was a little overrated, in my opinion. The David Bailey reps, you know, the one on one ones, there's six or seven of those. I think at least four of those, I mean, it was, you know, catch and throw kind of, you know, concepts where the ball is out in two seconds. He had a couple of impressive reps there.

1:19:13You could see flashes of the recovery skills certainly there. But you watch Mississippi State game, for instance, like that's a tough one to watch. It was earlier in the year, granted. But then you even watch the Arizona game. I mean, five, ten plays in. I mean, he's on the ground, you know, in pass protection, losing cleanly. And then I saw the same stuff at the Senior Bowl. There's flashes of really high-end stuff, but there's a lot of stuff even there where he's losing very cleanly and glaringly. I don't think he was challenged much on tape, even with the David Bailey reps, you know, in consideration.

1:19:47I think when he's, you know, if he's tasked with protecting on an island in the NFL early on against, you know, wide alignments where he has to deal with a lot of space and navigate that, I just think, you know, there's going to be a wide, wide variance there. So he's a guy I think it's really especially important where he has that runway to be eased into things. He is more of a developmental kind of guy for me than others may think. And the variance level there to me is just wider than I guess some other people see in this class.

1:20:25Robert Mays: Some cold water on what some of the discussion around him has looked like a little bit recently. Yeah, I like him in the right situation at the right point in the draft. But yeah, like, you know. Where is he overall on your guys' board? At Bleacher Report? Yeah, let me. He's low. He's pretty low, yeah. Because I have like a high third, late second round grade on him, which, you know, tackle tax, that's, you know, I'd be comfortable in the early second. But yeah, like he's like 70, he's in the 70s. Okay. for us also you have to take into account the bleacher report like the system that they use like it's it's ranked by like where you have them in terms of overall prospect quality and so like brandon said if you consider like position in there he's probably what closer to like 50 something brandon even a little bit higher than that he'll be in the 60s when it's all said and done um for us but yeah like i have based on our grade like our grading scale he just fits to me more of like a high-level backup year one who has upside as a starter.

1:21:30And I will concede that the upside is, you know, pretty considerably high. But early on, I just don't know that I see that happening. I just think that the timeline, my timeline and how I think about him is just different than others do, I guess. And that's ultimately what it comes down to because I still can see the ceiling. I just think he has further away to get there. There's more variables to me.

1:21:52Robert Mays: Let's talk about one more guy that's kind of a risk-reward type of proposition, especially in your mind, Dan, and that's Caleb Lomu from Utah, somebody that we see going in the back half of the first round consistently. I asked you about the biggest risk-reward guys in this class, and he was one of the names that you wanted to mention. What about Caleb Lomu to you makes him a risk-reward proposition in the 2026 draft? He just needs to get stronger, and that's not always a given. He's a young player. He's one of the few redshirt sophomores in this draft. Started the last two years at left tackle for Utah, which obviously pushed Spencer Fano to the right side.

1:22:29But you love, obviously, when you watch his pass pro reps and it looks clean, it's like, all right, that's how you draw it up. The frame, the body control, the footwork, that's exactly how you want him to look in pass pro. But then when guys are able to reach his body or in the run game, you see the lack of play strength. And sometimes it's considerably so going up against some of these defenders. And it's obviously not going to get any easier against NFL competition. So just that gives you a little bit of pause. How long before he gets to that point where you can feel comfortable with him outside and on an island against NFL pass rushers.

1:23:09That's where I think there's more risk here than I think some people will admit. But the reward is certainly high as well.

1:23:18Robert Mays: He was the guy among this entire group that just left me a little bit cold. As I got excited watching everyone else, he was the one where I walked away being like, he's a fluid athlete. I can understand it. There just wasn't, Brandon, when I watched Kale Blow a lot that lit me up where even if I could acknowledge the downside with some of the other guys, there was more that just got me excited when I went back and watched a couple of these games. Yeah, I think that's fair. You know, I think, again, going back to 2024, too, it's kind of important. You see a little bit more flashes, too, there in pass protection.

1:23:51But, yeah, I think he, you know, the reason why I have him edged over a guy like Ionicor is because I think he's a more natural mover in pass protection. And I think his recovery skills, it comes more natural to him to recover. And I think there's some really nice flashes of that, but still an inconsistent player for sure, who his biggest hangup for me as well is play strength. um you know I compared him to Walker Little I I see a very similar kind of caliber player to that uh you know maybe like uh you know I think high end you know he could turn out to be similar to like a Brian O 'Neill maybe who's had play strength concerns certainly in the NFL um you know maybe like a Charles Cross you know that's potential that's high-end outcomes I think around the table but like I settled more like mid-range, like Walker Little, you know, I mean, I just, yeah, that's ultimately, and I think play strength was his biggest hangup as well, but there's some natural recovery skills there that I think if you have a runway for him to kind of, you know, develop physically and just kind of get eased into things and not lose his confidence and all that sort of stuff, he's 21, like when he's 24, he could look like a different human being in terms of like physically so uh when you have that athletic ability undergirding and that recovery skill undergirding that like that to me yeah you know if you know late second somewhere like that like i would i would love to take a swing on him but first round is just too rich for me it's not

1:25:26Robert Mays: just physical concerns either though dane right i mean isn't that some of the thought about low moving some of the things you you typically i think are uh pretty generous in the way that you write-up prospects and when I read between the lines when you are when you bring the hammer down a little bit and reading his write-up Caleb Lomo and the Beast it was just like I can I can see Dane being a little bit frustrated with the oomph that Caleb Lomo is bringing to some of these reps yeah because I'm not gonna kill these guys but clearly you know there's there's holes in his game and things that he needs to get better at and it's being more consistent on a down on down down in down out basis but like like brandon said he's a young player and so i was really hoping he'd go back for another year in college but he's also a mature guy off the field like he just got married like a month ago uh he's a young player um i i'm i'm a little more um excited for his future than than brandon but certainly understanding the risk here like there's there's no guarantee he's gonna get there all right very quickly we alluded to a couple of them best fits for a couple of these guys before we get out of here.

1:26:31Robert Mays: Dan, just rip through a couple of them for you. Proctor to Philly. I think that makes sense. Blake Miller to the Patriots. I like that one. Just protect Drake May at all costs. Do what you have to do. Add Blake Miller to that. And then here's a fun one for you. The Bears, they need to draft the center at some point, right? Yes. Connor Liu from Auburn, a guy that tore his ACL back in October. but I think you're betting on what he's going to be next year and going forward. There's a lot of upside there. I was going to, just as a personal thing, ask you who the Bears should be taking in the third round, and so I'll be going back and watching some of that tape today.

1:27:11Robert Mays: Brandon, who you got? Best fits in this draft. Yeah, Venga Iwane to the Ravens, I think, is an obvious one. Francis Maui Noah to the Rams, as we touched on. I think if Spencer Fonda were to drop, then there's several areas where, especially if you want to move in positions, somewhere like Chicago, somewhere like the 49ers, I believe Brendel's a free agent after this year. That would be incredible to see him make that transition into that scheme. Those stand out. Proctor to Philly, I agree. That's the ideal landing spot for him. And I'll throw Monroe Freeling out there to somewhere like New England would be great.

1:27:55where he doesn't have to necessarily play right away and can learn. Yeah, those to me are all ones that stand out for sure. All right.

1:28:03Robert Mays: We could go three hours on this thing, but I've taken up enough of both of your time. Thoroughly enjoyed that conversation. Appreciate the time, Brandon. Always great to chat with you. Please tell the people where they can check out all the work that you were doing about both this offensive line class and the position in general. Yeah, so people can go to trenchwarfare.substack.com and subscribe to my newsletter there. and then BleacherReport.com, and you can find all my scouting reports on this entire offensive line class. That is, I believe, the last position-specific breakdown we have for this class.

1:28:37Robert Mays: You can go check out all of them on the Athletic Football Show feed. On Building the Beast, we got DBs, linebackers, anything else? Tight ends. Yeah. DBs, linebackers, and tight ends. And then we got defensive linemen, offensive linemen, wide receivers on the athletic football show feed. And so you got six deep dive position breakdowns available for you currently in your podcast feed or on YouTube. So go check those out when you get a chance. Like we said earlier in the show, drafts a week away. Very excited about that. Very excited about everything we've got coming your way for now. That's all we got.

1:29:16Robert Mays: Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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