Which team has the healthiest roster construction in 2026?

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0:53Derrik Klassen: Hi, I'm Madison Tevlin. And I'm Presley Hospock. We're the co-hosts of Serving Smiles, a podcast where we try to make health and wellness way less overwhelming. In partnership with Colgate Palmolive, we're breaking down topics like oral health, skin health, and more with the help of expert guests.

1:10Dave Helman: Check out Serving Smiles wherever you get your podcasts.

1:15Derrik Klassen: Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I am Dave Hellman. And we've got a really fun outside the box episode for y 'all today. I think some of the best content happens on other podcasts. And I think it was last week we did a draft of breakout player candidates, young guys that we feel really excited about heading into the 2026 season. And that led to a question about which teams have the most young, exciting talent to pull from heading into this year. So we decided to take a deep look at it. Derek Klassen and myself dove into the depth charts to determine who has the healthiest young roster in football.

1:56Derrik Klassen: And let's lay out some parameters before we get into it. We decided we just wanted to look at young cost-controlled players, guys that are on their rookie deals. So you're going to hear some omissions here, some guys that have signed some big money contracts. They might still be young players, but if you have signed a second contract in the NFL, you are ineligible for this, which swayed our rankings pretty heavily as we went through it. Led to some surprising results as we looked through the healthiest young rosters in the NFL, as well as maybe spent some time on a few of the unhealthiest rosters in the NFL.

2:36Derrik Klassen: Really great detailed look around the league with myself and Derek Klassen. Let's get to it.

2:51Derrik Klassen: I gotta say, Derek, as we're kicking off our second season together, getting ready for training camp year two, I'm proud of us for consolidating this because we've done shows like this before where we look through every roster in the NFL and we're coming up with rankings and we might just throw out 25 different teams and then try to parse through it as we go. We decided to consolidate a little bit. We made a composite ranking. So hopefully, A, I think it's going to be easier for us to follow. And B, it'll be easier to follow along with at home. I think that's growth. I think that's like making year two steps heading into our second training camp.

3:30Dave Helman: And it also, you know, there's I think when you're just doing rankings, but you know you're going to include every team, you're not as hurt about like who you're putting at eight, who you're putting at nine or whatever. But the fact that we have like a cutoff actually did. You have to think a little bit more about who you want to include for some of that stuff, which kind of helps you land on some stuff.

3:48Derrik Klassen: We also had to do some cutoffs with who we're considering. So we're looking for the healthiest, the best young roster cores in the NFL. And for the purposes of this, we had a very strict set of guidelines. We're looking for players playing on their rookie contracts who have not been extended yet. So we're really looking at year two to four players. In some circumstances, maybe year five, we did count first round picks playing on their options count toward this exercise. But we decided to draw some hard and fast lines. There are some really, really excellent players who are a big part of the reason why their teams are good, who are so good that they already got extended.

4:37Derrik Klassen: And for the purposes of this, do not count toward your roster core. So for this exercise, Will Anderson is not eligible as part of the Texans young roster core. Jackson Smith and Jigba is not eligible toward the Seahawks young roster core. Maybe that's not completely fair because these are obviously still really young, really talented players that are going to be a big piece of Houston and Seattle's success moving forward. But we felt like we had to draw a hard line or else we'd be hemming and hawing over all the different gray areas for every single team.

5:14Dave Helman: That's the thing. Like, I didn't want to do like, oh, does this guy count? Because he's technically playing on his fifth year option, but they already extended him. I think that I think where we landed was like, their future money cannot have been accounted for yet. That's it. It's like as simple as that, as like they have not set out the new paycheck for you because like jack campbell isn't really costing the lions anything next year but his money for the next five years is kind of already accounted for and so i think for those reasons it was like let's just make it simple and go for guys who have not signed anything i do think that's gonna sway the rankings pretty significantly because i mean a couple of mine would be changed way different if one or two of these players could

5:50Derrik Klassen: be included yeah and so if if you're one of those teams who's being penalized by your player being so good that he's already signed a new contract. Just take solace in the fact that you have a really good team and they're good at business clearly because they've already gotten some of this stuff taken care of. So, all right, that is the housekeeping for this episode. With that in mind, let's, let's just jump right into it, Derek. And I can't say I'm really surprised to find out who we both landed on. So we did our own rankings and then compiled them together for this composite ranking and shocker of shockers.

6:26Derrik Klassen: we were both extremely, extremely high on the Los Angeles Rams young roster core.

6:33Dave Helman: I mean, how could you not be? I actually, you know, before we fully dive, you know, I actually I will list all the names. And then I want to ask you a question. Puka Nakua, I mean, is obviously the highlight here. I'm going to go offense, then defense. Puka Nakua, Steve Avila, Warren McClendon, Terrence Ferguson, Blake Corum. You've got a nice role player in Jordan Whittington, who's still on a rookie deal. Defense is where you just have a thousand people. Kobe Turner, Braden Fisk, Byron Young, Cam Kitchens, Josiah Stewart, Omar Spates, Jalen McCullough, Tyler Davis. What I want to ask you, obviously, that's like a dozen names.

7:04Dave Helman: If Puka had already signed his contract, how high do you think you would have put them?

7:09Derrik Klassen: That is a that's a great point. And this is this is admittedly a gray area because Jackson Smith and Jigba gets his extension this offseason. So he's ineligible. Puka hasn't gotten it. It's almost like we're penalizing a team for getting their business out of the way. but I digress. If Puka was not part of this, and I'd be shocked, even being a little bit of an off-field headache over the last six, seven months, I'd be shocked if Puka Nakua doesn't sign a very, very lucrative contract extension at some point in the future with the Rams. If I'm not including Puka, I think maybe I'd have him four, maybe.

7:52Derrik Klassen: I mean, that is how much weight a guy like this carries. And I guess I will say in my rankings, I had the Rams too. You had them number one. So I was a little bit lower on the Rams than you were. And we'll get into the reasons why for that. But yeah, I mean, Puka Nakua, arguably the best receiver in football right now. I mean, that's doing a lot of heavy lifting for you.

8:13Dave Helman: But even still, that's my point, right? You can remove an all pro, the most productive first three years we've ever seen from a wide receiver. and they are still one of the three or four most healthy cores that you have because the defense is insane like it just bodies on bodies here's my question for you and so you you went offense

8:34Derrik Klassen: first and then defense I ranked a lot of these players just based on like how good I think they are after Puka who would who would your number two guy be on the Rams not counting Puka Nakua

8:47Dave Helman: probably Kobe Turner and then like Byron Young and Steve Avila in some order um I do think that this team is like they are in a position where after Puka Nakua it's not a lot of all pros it's just a lot of like borderline pro bowlers and like quality starters and so I do think that that is an interesting divide we'll have with some of these teams some of these teams have like five players, but they might all be all pros in the future. Whereas the Rams are kind of the opposite where like, I don't know if I see all pros from any of these guys, but like they will probably be starters in the league for a long time.

9:22Derrik Klassen: I, at the end of the day, had eight guys that I would count toward the Rams core. And then another two or three honorable mentions like Terrence Ferguson, Josiah Stewart, guys that showed a lot of promise last year, who maybe I just want to see a little bit more before I'm just assuming that they're going to continue to be great for the Rams, but all the guys that you listed both sides of the ball, I had Byron Young and Kobe Turner two and three for whatever that's worth. And my favorite thing about the Rams, we've talked about this before. Even if you're a fan of another team that's tired of hearing about the LA Rams, they are such a fun example of how quickly this shit can turn around for you.

10:03Derrik Klassen: Cause like, obviously they have the quarterback. We get that. They just traded for miles Garrett. They have Devontae Adams. Like, obviously, they're loaded with all this veteran talent. But really, you're talking about two draft classes being the difference in being like a solid team and being one of the best overall rosters in the entire league. We talked about the 2023 draft a couple weeks ago on a different episode. I mean, you get Steve Avila, Byron Young, Kobe Turner, back to back to back, throw in Warren McClendon. And oh, by the way, Pukunakua, Ethan Evans isn't going to qualify for a conversation like this.

10:42Derrik Klassen: But even like you find a fantastic punter in the seventh round. I mean, just a ridiculous draft class. And then the next year you get Jared Verse no longer on the team. But I don't think they're complaining about the guy who helped them get Miles Garrett, Braden Fisk, Blake Corum, Cameron Kenshins. I mean, it's just it's a staggering hit rate over a two year period.

11:04Dave Helman: And I think the last thing I'll say and will ultimately put them at number one for me is if we're talking about overall health, the fact that they have a dozen of these guys who are playing all over and can give you some of their more rotational players, whatever it may be. Having that many guys who are cheap and young gives you the flexibility to go sign a Devontae Adams, to trade for a Miles Garrett, to trade for a Trent McDuffie. The fact that you have half of your starting roster is not making any money. Like it allows you to go buy the stars in a way that like the inverse of that is obviously having like three or four all pro stars on rookie contracts.

11:39Dave Helman: And then you can dole out some of that money in free agency. This is like the inverse of that. And I think I just gave them credit for that style of building.

11:47Derrik Klassen: It's not a mystery why the Rams are regarded the way that they are heading into the 2026 season. So, like I said, I had them two. You had them one. We'll split the difference. Not surprised to hear that. Our number two healthiest overall roster. Again, not a surprise if you're following along at home, but we came up on the Philadelphia Eagles number two overall, Derek.

12:16Dave Helman: I mean, the Eagles, it's funny because they are actually, it's incredibly lopsided. You can't find that many offensive players for them. But the entire defense basically is all just like rookie stars.

12:30Derrik Klassen: So we'll talk about the other team, but there's two teams on this list. There's another team high up on this list that is just loaded on offense with young stars on rookie contracts without as much on defense. And the Eagles are the inverse of that, where if over a two or three year stretch. so here here are my big my first six on the eagles list eric i had jalen carter number one

12:58Dave Helman: and if i mean i mean if you want to healthy you have to yeah if you if you want to argue with me

13:04Derrik Klassen: because of health that's fine but in terms of like ability when he's on the field and healthy and the rarity of that skill set jalen carter quignan mitchell right behind him cooper de jean right behind him getting those guys in the same draft nolan smith jalex hunt and then a guy that probably isn't getting talked about as much as he deserves because of all the other young defensive talent moro ajomo absolutely is a piece of this for me i mean i i had him jihad campbell i think

13:36Dave Helman: is better than people realize and is going to still be a really good player andrew makuba isn't like a star safety, but he's like absolutely a starter for them. Like they, the defense is like almost entirely made up of all of these young pieces. And again, like I just talked about with the Rams, that allows you the flexibility to go pay for a number two corner into re-quill it because you're just not paying the rest of your defense that much money. And so I just think like the star it's, they have the perfect mix of some of these guys are all pros and stars like Jalen Carter at his best. Quinion Mitchell.

14:07Dave Helman: I think Cooper Dejean is absolutely that. But then again, it goes like eight guys deep where pretty much all of these guys, you know, Jalex Hunt, I don't know if he's like a super full-time like starting caliber player, but I think almost all of these guys are like really high level players for you. So just the fact that they go so many deep and a lot of these guys have either been all pros or clearly have all pro potential, I think it's just like it's hard to build a defense like this. And I think the fact that they're so high on this list and have, who would you even bring up for the offense?

14:38Dave Helman: Like Tyler Steen, maybe? And that's kind of it.

14:41Derrik Klassen: I'm glad you asked me this question. I want to see if you'll go along with me on this or tell me to get the hell out of here. The one offensive player I had is Tanner McKee. I'm dead serious. I like Tanner McKee.

14:56Dave Helman: I don't think that's crazy because there actually are a couple of teams where I did list the backup quarterback because it's like having a backup who you're not paying anything is like,

15:05Derrik Klassen: kind of valuable. I think it's worth highlighting that the Eagles have the backup quarterback factory down to a science. And I have no idea if Tanner McKee is actually good, but a, they have a backup in place. B, maybe more interesting for people like us. Andy Dalton is still in Philly, who could absolutely steer the ship for a couple of weeks if you needed him to. And that makes Tanner McKee, maybe it's improbable, but it's fun to speculate that Tanner McKee could be trade bait for the Eagles if something were to happen during training camp or in the early portion of the season. And just having that ammunition available to you is why the Eagles are so good at this.

15:49Derrik Klassen: Like they have a young developmental guy who could be something for them in the future or be a trade ship to make their team better if they feel like that's the best course of action. I really do think that matters.

16:01Dave Helman: I mean, it does, because I think for most of the other backup quarterbacks I've talked about, it's mostly just like, well, they give you good play if the starter goes down or whatever. But with McKee, it really is both. It's like he's the only guy on this list that it feels like has genuinely been trotted around as trade bait. And so if they can get, I don't know, third round pick back for him, whatever it's going to be. I know they probably want more than that, but the fact that that is a possibility for them is pretty valuable.

16:25Derrik Klassen: The Eagles have Tanner McKee. they still have it. Like I said, they still have Dalton and they drafted Cole Payton who coming out of North Dakota state guys built like a tight end. Like he would clearly need a lot of development at the NFL level, but that's how he Roseman's whole thing. Just like keep that conveyor belt moving. And yeah, who knows if anything actually happens with Tanner McKee, but the process is there and it has worked in the past. And I think it's worth highlighting. Okay. So that takes us through the Rams at one, the Eagles at two. That brings us to our number three overall team, which this is, this feels like the first deviation to me because this was actually my number one overall team, Derek.

17:10Derrik Klassen: So I'm, I'm curious to get into this with you. My number one overall team, our third overall team composite is the new England Patriots. and maybe I'm weighing the quarterback way too heavily, but if a key piece of your like young core roster is the quarterback who was runner up for NFL MVP, I'm fine. If that carries a hell of a lot of weight. So I had the Patriots first when I went through this on my own.

17:39Dave Helman: I mean, if anything, I might just not be weighing it enough. Cause obviously, I mean, I'm the Drake may guy, which kind of seems funny that I would rate like not weigh that as heavily as you are you letting me carry this torch come on I think I had in general like kind of a hard time trying to calibrate for what the quarterbacks were going to be and I think the other thing with the Patriots is there's just not that many guys I'm certain are like needle movers outside of the quarterback like Will Campbell and Jared Wilson I think there's reason to be excited I think I still need to see more before I believe they're anything more than like mid-level NFL starters.

18:15Dave Helman: Travion Henderson, I know we're all excited about. I promise he's not going to be the starting running back next year because that's just not the way that Josh McDaniel is going to run it if Ramondre Stevenson is still there. And then the defense has some nice players, but again, I just don't know if they have that many stars. Like I really like Craig Woodson. I really think Elijah Ponder can be like a good low end two, high end three sort of guy. But again, there's just not that many. So this to me, it really with the Patriots came down to like, how much are you weighing just the quarterback?

18:44Dave Helman: And also, how good do you think the two offensive linemen are?

18:47Derrik Klassen: I'm so disappointed in you because you didn't even mention your other guy. Kayshawn Booty? Christian Gonzalez, dude. Didn't he sign? He has not signed yet. Oh, what? Oh, I thought he signed.

19:00Dave Helman: Okay. That would change my math here. I, for some reason, thought he already

19:03Derrik Klassen: side that is a big big piece of this which like christian gonzalez is going to be a really rich man before training camp is over like that feels very obvious to me which i think that highlights some of the pitfalls of trying to do this but right now gonzo is on a rookie contract and i'm gonna use that for all it's worth so you got if you got an mvp caliber quarterback on offense and wherever you want to put him, like top three, top five, top six. I don't really care what your ranking is, but a blue chip type of corner on the other side who I think, yeah, Christian Gonzalez just turned 24 the other day.

19:43Derrik Klassen: So those are my foundations here, and everything else is kind of gravy for me.

19:49Dave Helman: If I was including Gonzalez here, because, again, I think I just thought all the young corners had signed because it does feel like almost all the other ones that are eligible have done it now. I think if I was including him, I would have bumped them up a couple of spots for sure.

20:02Derrik Klassen: We're recording this on a Monday. If you get to your podcasts late and you're listening to this on a Thursday or a Friday, it might be out of date already. Like, I do think Christian Gonzalez is going to sign in short order and be, you know, a high 20s, low 30s million sort of player. But right now, while I was putting this together, he fit my parameters. And I'm going to take advantage of that loophole. So if those are the top two, love that. I hear you about Travion Henderson, but still just such an explosive player. And if that's what we saw in year one, seventh in the league in yards per carry among running backs with 100 plus carries on the year, 11 design rush attempts of 15 plus yards.

20:49Derrik Klassen: He had several big game changing sort of runs. if that was the if that was year one for Travion Henderson, even if he's not the bell cow, I think he could be so, so dangerous. And then all the other guys you miss mentioned, although I do think you said Kayshaun Booty kind of flippantly. And I hear you like Kayshaun Booty is not truly moving the needle. But we talked about this on a previous show. Kayshaun Booty as your wide receiver three or four instead of your wide receiver, like one or two. that is obviously A.J. Brown and Romeo Dobbs do not qualify for this exercise but having those guys lessening the load on a young player like Keyshawn Booty it just highlights the overall health of

21:33Dave Helman: this roster and where it's at that's a good point like because he's actually bumped down into like a role that probably makes more sense for him it almost makes him more valuable than he was a year ago when like he had to be the guy for them so that probably was too flip I might be underrating the other pieces on this offense because like I know the end of Will Campbell was really bad he was pretty good for a lot of his rookie season I like Jared Wilson moving to center like I probably did underrate this team a little bit I have my concerns about Will Campbell

22:00Derrik Klassen: but before he got hurt one of the only guys that really and truly whipped his ass was Miles Garrett which like I'm okay with that which like as a rookie like yeah man yeah no shit I'm not closing in the book on will campbell at all so i was really high on the patriots like i said that's uh two players are doing a lot of lifting there for me but all right i mentioned the eagles have all their young players on defense our number four team i think is the one where all of the optimism is coming on the offensive side of the ball let's talk about the chicago bears i mean

22:39Dave Helman: this was this was the team where it was just like it to the moon man because they have like the Patriots they have the quarterback I think I was just a little bit more willing to buy the upside case for some of the other players and again with the Patriots I forgot Christian Gonzalez which changes it but like the combination of Roma Dunze, Luther Burden, Colston Loveland and Darnell Wright still on his rookie deal obviously like that pairing of players is just like not even including the quarterback I think probably would have made this list you have a quarterback like Caleb Williams, who I know can be frustrating.

23:10Dave Helman: I know has his ups and downs, but like God just didn't make many guys who can throw the football and move like that. And I just, I really believe in what the talent is going to be. And then they, honestly, there's still a couple of other pieces on the offense. Like Kyle Manungai was really good for them last year.

23:25Derrik Klassen: I had the Bears fifth when I did this and quarterback carries so much weight. Obviously, I think they have an answer at quarterback in Caleb Darnell, right? Is the man I'll go as far as to say, I firmly believe in Colson Loveland and what he did as a rookie and where his arrow is pointed. My only beef with the rest of the bears options. I mean, we, we, we talked on a show last week about how much we're high on Luther burden. Roma Dunze has all the opportunity in the world out in front of him. We'll see what happens with Ozzy Trapilo when he's healthy. it's a lot of projection after like the first three for me you know or and like Kyle Manunga had a really great rookie season with with all due respect to Kyle Manunga I still think that's like a fairly replaceable skill set you know what I mean like and so I don't know if I'm thinking of that as as like a cornerstone addition to the roster so I'm excited but I don't think the Bears are as much of a slam dunk past the first like two two and a half guys here and the fact that so much of it is on offense I mean and like the the Eagles that's great that the defense is so young and cheap because the offense is loaded with expensive all pro players the Bears don't have that on the other side of the ball and so I I like where the Bears are for a year or two of this Ben Johnson regime But once I looked through it, I wasn't as excited as I thought I might be.

25:01Dave Helman: I will admit a lot of this to me probably comes down to like how much of the projection with Caleb and to a slightly lesser degree, Roma Dunze that I'm I'm willing to make like Caleb Williams. I just I believe that this rocket is going to the moon. Like, I just think that he's so talented. And then Roma Dunze, like he was frustrated because obviously the whole thing with him is that being a big body to like X style receiver. he really is supposed to win at the catch point more than he did. And he absolutely needs to do that. But I think that his route running for a guy his size is really good.

25:32Dave Helman: I think he's a decent yak threat for somebody like him. I think some of his best stuff, like some of the seam routes and some of the posts that he was running that Caleb was hitting last year were really impressive. And I think I just some of his production, I think, was partly he needs to take another step and partly like Caleb Williams in the offense just needs to take another step. And I think that part of it I think I'm just so confident in that you know again maybe I'm projecting more than

25:55Derrik Klassen: I should but I think I just believe it I mean this goes back to my whole offseason ethos about the Bears it doesn't really matter to me if they have a better season than last year because if you cement that Caleb Williams really is that guy and let's just say two of the pass catchers look legit Like Colston Loveland is, is the man. And then like one of the receivers is a guy that you feel good about. Then, then we can turn our attention to the defense and making this a better overall team and really trying to turn this team into a Superbowl contender. If we've, if that's where they are at the end of 2026, even if they take a significant step back in terms of wins and losses and playoff success, I really think that's okay.

26:43Derrik Klassen: I really think if you are confident Caleb Williams is the franchise guy when he's 25 years old with three more years of cost-controlled play to work with, that's a really good spot for the Bears to be. So even if I don't think top to bottom the roster is as good as some other teams, I'm A-OK with where they're sitting heading into this year. Yeah.

27:06Dave Helman: Really quickly so that we don't get yelled at by Bears fans. the defense is really just like Austin Booker. And then maybe if you think your Von Dexter is going to take a little bit more of a step and that that was kind of it as far as I got on the defense. Tyree Stevenson still technically on his rookie deal, but I'm not sure that's like a needle mover for me at this stage.

27:22Derrik Klassen: Yeah, it's it's not. And I think if I was a Bears fan, what I would say is, well, Jalen Johnson being healthy is what's really going to make the difference. But like he he is not part of this conversation. So we are working in a limited scope of things. I mean, the Bears defense has potential to surprise some people, but I'm just me personally. I'm not interested in heaping expectations on them, but doesn't mean they can't surprise me. OK, that is that's our top four. And there is one pretty notable omission hanging out there. And we're going to get to them on the other side of this break.

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31:16Derrik Klassen: All right, Derek. When we started this show, I expected to have our number five team a lot higher, honestly. And I had them ranked four overall, but they come up at fifth in our composite rankings. The Seattle Seahawks really screwing themselves for the purposes of this by just getting business done with Jackson Smith and Jigba as early as they did. How dare they be responsible and proactive with their contracts?

31:43Dave Helman: Right. Like paying the offensive player and offensive player of the year. What a ridiculous concept. But it really does hurt them for this exercise. Like they are another team where if he they're like the inverse of the Puka Nakua thing, right? It's like because Puka hasn't signed, I'm willing to put the Rams higher because JSN has signed the Seahawks probably lose a spot or two because, you know, a player like that is technically off the board for this for this exercise.

32:06Derrik Klassen: Much like Christian Gonzalez, I expect Devin Witherspoon to sign at any moment. So right now he is on his rookie deal. If he wasn't, the Seahawks might have slipped even further in these rankings than they did, which I think that's an A-OK problem to have. I don't think anybody in Seattle is losing sleep about having to pay their all pro caliber Super Bowl champion players. But Devin Witherspoon, for me, at least for the time being, is the headliner here. Byron Murphy, the second right behind him. He's not eligible for a new contract yet, but I would imagine it'll be a big one when he is. Gray Zabel, incredibly, incredibly impressive as a rookie, as was Nicky Manwari.

32:49Derrik Klassen: And then I think those are the heavy, heavy lifters. But if we're doing like young rookie contract talent, A.J. Barner, such an underrated piece of what the Seahawks did last year. And he's injured right now, obviously. But Zach Charbonnet, I would imagine, is going to have a big role as soon as he's able heading into 2026.

33:10Dave Helman: Yeah, totally. And like they they've got some younger players that are interesting, like, you know, Jalen Sundell, obviously starting for them last year was nice. Torrey Horton, I think there's not I think there's a decent chance that he could have a more outsized role in the future. Like Elijah Arroyo, maybe like Riley Mills on the defensive end. Like they've got guys that you can project forward. It's just other than Sundell, a lot of those guys you're kind of trying to project. correct uh what i will say about the seahawks they are actually like them and the eagles were the impetus for this show right of like you are young you built this young roster in this young core the reason why i think the seahawks rank lower than we would have thought coming off that super bowl is just some of the guys that made their cheap super bowl run possible last year was the final year like derrick hall is no longer uh cheap kobe uh kobe bryant is now out of the building um Tariq Woolen now out of the building who was cheap last year like they had more of them

34:03Derrik Klassen: last year now some of them are just gone I really feel like the parameters of this exercise are the only thing holding the Seahawks back I mean Jackson Smith and Jigba is what he is 20 yeah he's 24 years old he absolutely he'll be around for a while yeah he's gonna be playing Seahawk football for a while and Witherspoon obviously coming up on his extension any day now. And then the other thing you mentioned, the guys that left in free agency and don't qualify for this anymore. I do think there are some young, exciting players that just don't quite qualify for an exercise like this, like Drake Thomas, Tai Okada, like guys that I'm really excited about who made the most of opportunities last year, but getting elevated is, is a different beast, right?

34:58Derrik Klassen: Like I, I want to see a little bit more from those guys. So Seahawks, absolutely one of the most talented young rosters in the NFL, but I think, I, I think they got screwed the most by the guidelines that we set on this exercise.

35:13Dave Helman: A hundred percent. I think if we were just doing like pure roster health like not accounting for like some of these weird particular parameters of like rookie contracts like they would be extremely high on the list but because of these exact parameters it's like ah you kind of get hurt just a little bit in some

35:29Derrik Klassen: of these ways so the seahawks were very easy to start this next part of the show with but after this it got it got pretty dicey for me derek like it it starts to become a beauty in the eye of the beholder thing but in our composite rankings the next team up and I'm I'm curious for your thoughts on this because I came away thinking it was like a small handful of very good players but not a whole lot in the way of depth and that's the Detroit Lions they were one of the hardest teams

36:05Dave Helman: to rank because the the top line is like Jameer Gibbs and Sam LaPorter are like as good at their positions as you can be. Brian Branch, when he's healthy, I think is also that, but that's a complicating factor. Like he's coming off of a major injury and who knows how healthy he's going to be. And then, like you said, after that, it's, you know, we've talked about before how the Lions have traded a lot of these picks away to move up in the draft and they've kind of fumbled a lot of these picks. And so you've got a lot of guys where you're trying to project like Isaac to Slaw and Tyleek Williams, I think are total projections.

36:34Dave Helman: Like you are kind of just hoping that next year goes better for them. The ones that I think are a little bit projection, but I do think have a little bit more substance to them uh Christian Mahogany and uh Tate Ratledge along the offensive line I I I think saying they're going to be like definitively good is obviously a stretch but those guys I am more hopeful for and I think we saw a little bit last year where I'm willing to buy some of what that actually looked like Mahogany was fourth on my list

36:59Derrik Klassen: Tate Ratledge was five you know who six was and I I went outside the box here a little bit because he's not a Lions drafted player, but he is on his rookie deal. Juice Scruggs.

37:13Dave Helman: Yeah, good depth. And they had no good depth last year.

37:16Derrik Klassen: So that actually kind of matters for them. Very similar to Kayshawn Booty in New England, where I'm like, OK, if you were penciled into a starting job, I don't know how much I would love that. But if you're a swing interior guy who can fill in everywhere, then like, yes, that is, that's really quality depth for the Lions. I feel really good about that. After those six, though, I kind of struggled because you're, I mean, you're talking about a lot of unproven guys. You're talking about a lot of projection, like you said. I mean, the Lions 2024 draft, unfortunately, is just not looking wonderful at this moment in time beyond Christian Mahogany.

37:55Derrik Klassen: I mean, Terry and Arnold, obviously already off the team. Ennis Rakestraw, just injuries have not allowed him to have much of a career. So this, the Lions, in terms of like the long-term youth and health of their roster, this really feels like a crossroads where they need the 2025 draft class to take some steps forward. They need a couple of guys in this 2026 class to be good right away, or else you could wind up in a situation like, man, what happened to the Lions? Like, what's that fall off all about?

38:28Dave Helman: Exactly. Like they're just in a spot where, again, it's almost like inverse of like the Rams where they don't have that much depth. And I think if you're talking about pure roster health, that is pretty concerning that not a lot of these guys, they just don't have that many like rookie contract players who are starting or even like really consistent role players for them. I do think that that is an issue. they just like the best players are so good that it still allows them to be really competitive and obviously they have other good players who don't qualify here like Amon Ross St. Brown, Jamison Williams has already been paid, Penny Sewell and so they have other good players but like it they don't have that many of these young superstars but the ones that are good go a pretty long way in actually making this team consistently like a 9-10-11 win team.

39:12Derrik Klassen: The best of the Lions roster is up there with almost anybody. And it's like, yeah, they've got the juice to keep this momentum going for a while longer off of that star power. But ask anybody in the NFL what happens if you miss on two or three drafts consecutively and what it can look like. Well, actually, we'll get to some teams that are dealing with that at the end of the show. So moving on in our rankings, our number seven team, a team like absolutely was not on my radar, Derek, when we started this exercise. And by the end of it, I came away thinking, yeah, no, they absolutely deserve to be highlighted here.

39:55Derrik Klassen: And that would be the L.A. Chargers.

39:57Dave Helman: I almost like they were more like the more I looked at my list, I was wondering, like, can I find a way to bump them higher? because their top line is crazy. Like Joe Alt, Tuli Tuli Pelo Tu. I think O'Mearian Hampton is obviously incredibly talented, even if last year, you know, some injuries and wasn't crazy. Ladd McConkie, I think when he's healthy, I think that he can be better, especially now in a Mike McDaniel offense. And so they've got the star top line guys there, right? And again, injuries kind of complicated a little bit. Maybe that's why I didn't put them as high. But then they've also got depth.

40:28Dave Helman: Like they have a lot of young players who give them starting and decent snaps. like Tarheep still is a good nickel for them. Cam Hart has been good at corner. Quentin Johnson has like, I know he used to be a meme early in his career, but he's like a totally fine role-playing wide receiver. Aranda Gadsden, who they drafted at tight end. Kamani Vidal is a good backup running back. Like they've got the depth and the star line talent. And so maybe none of them other than Alt are like the Puka Nakua, like Devin Witherspoon level player. And maybe that's why I had them a little bit lower, but they've got the stars and the depth.

41:01Dave Helman: I was pretty surprised.

41:03Derrik Klassen: I think you could say something similar about the corners. I mean, it's so impressive that they found two starting corners on day three of the 24 draft. Tarheep still and Cam Hart. Not saying it's the best duo in the NFL, but finding starter caliber play on day three of the draft at such a demanding position. Something that's always going to stay out, stand out to me. I know you mentioned recently, maybe not day on Henley's best season in 2025, but still a young player. The whole point of this exercise, a guy on a rookie contract who you would hope can continue to improve. I think that's worth mentioning.

41:41Derrik Klassen: I mean, with with Alt and Tui Palotu as the headliners, I came away feeling really good about the overall depth of this. And yeah, like a guy like Gadsden in a situation now where you have Charlie Kohler there, you have David Njoku there, like letting him settle into a role that makes a little more sense for a second year player. I felt really good about the totality of it all.

42:05Dave Helman: It's same here. And I think this actually might be the team on my list where I most feel like if things break right for one or two of their players, this will feel the most wrong. like if lad mcconkey is exactly what we think he can be in the mike mcdaniel offense and omerian hampton is exactly what we thought he would be coming out of college i might move the charges as high as like three or four like if those players are as good as they're supposed to be it's just i think for me alton tuli are the only two where i was like write it in pen i know that those guys are extremely good football players

42:36Derrik Klassen: i'm starting to get nervous about how excited i am about the chargers like history tells me it again. History tells me that that's a bad place to be. All right. We decided we decided we were going to rank the top eight roster cores that we came away with. Again, we had different rankings, so we landed in some different spots. We're going to do our eighth and final composite team. And then that'll, you know, we'll, we'll talk about some difference of opinion. But after, some discussion, Derek, I was a little surprised at myself because it's not a long list, but the overall takeaway is that the short list of incredibly good players in Cleveland right now is worthy of mentioning in the number eight spot.

43:29Derrik Klassen: It's only like five guys, but they're really good players.

43:33Dave Helman: It's like the Lions thing, right? Where it's like, I wish there were 10 guys here instead of six, but the combination of Carson Swessinger, who I truly believe next year could be like the closest thing that we've seen to Fred Warner. Like, I truly believe that he's like a special, special talent. You now have Jared Verse, who I know, you know, all the hubbub of like him getting traded and all that stuff still on his rookie deal. And so I think that that is obviously a huge one for them. And then the two offensive rookies they had last year, Harold Fannin being as productive as he was for a rookie tight end is insane.

44:06Dave Helman: And then I honestly think the only reason I didn't like full throatedly put them in my top eight was I just don't know what Quinshot Judkins is going to look like health wise. But if you can tell me that he's going to be 95 percent, he was electric last year when he actually had a chance to do stuff. And so that it's really only four guys, because after that, you're like, you know, Mason Graham had an OK rookie season and he's a top pick. And but after that, it's like backups and like some, you know, Miles Harden played OK in the nickel for them last year. but it really is just like four monster guys.

44:37Dave Helman: And then we'll see what we get from Mason Graham.

44:39Derrik Klassen: I think Graham is worth throwing in there just because he's a top five. Like he's a top five pick who it might not. He might not have set the world on fire his rookie year, but he had his moments and looked like a guy who can continue to get better. Like I'm not counting him out.

44:56Dave Helman: You know what we do? We did this a lot with the lines. Actually, if we flipped where they took Swessinger and Mason Graham,

45:02Derrik Klassen: absolutely like a perfect draft class my god if if mason graham was like the first pick in the second round like this this was incredible drafting and it still was by the way and i'll admit too if it's not obvious by now we didn't take rookies into account for this exercise but i am i am trying to will it into existence that the browns 2026 class is half as good as 2025 because you look at their two deep and you look at all the guys that they added in this past draft i mean we love casey conception conception see what happens with fano and denzel boston even if it's not as emmanuel mcneil warren oh my god i forgot they drafted him like even if it's only half as good as what we saw from the rookies last year like if you add another two or three badass rookies to what they already did i think i think the browns are going to be the hipster darlings of the NFL when it comes time to look for this quarterback.

46:00Dave Helman: I mean, that's two teams in a row now where it's like, oh, we're doing it again because they're like the two rungs down version of what we've done with the Chargers before. But I'm buying it like I love all the rookies they picked. And obviously, these guys, I think your stars.

46:12Derrik Klassen: I just, you know, it's it's more fun to get excited, even if it'll end in heartbreak like 75 percent of the time. I'm OK with it. All right. So that's the composite rankings. But we we had some difference of opinion. we had some other teams we wanted to highlight. I'll give the floor to you first for who you had up next.

46:31Dave Helman: The one that I really wanted to put kind of high, and they did actually make my personal top eight, I still had the Houston Texans, even without Will Anderson Jr. and Derek Stenling being part of the equation. You have CJ Stroud, who I know that people are down on right now, but he is, to me, a top 12 quarterback on a rookie contract. And he might sign soon. So again, this is like the Christian Gonzalez thing, but still, for now, he's on his rookie deal. Jaden Higgins, I think, is fairly promising. I think Ariante Urshiri had a much better rookie season than people realize. And then on the other side of the field, Kamari Lasseter is as good a number two corner as there is.

47:06Dave Helman: Kalen Bullock, I thought, played fairly well at safety. And then Henry Torotolo, I think, is still on the final year of his deal. I think he's become a nice player. And actually, an underrated player that I've really started to like the more I've chipped away at Texans defense this offseason. like I was studying Aziz Alshair earlier when I was watching a bunch of linebackers, Dylan Horton, backup defensive end for them, got a little something. Like, I don't know if he's going to be like a starter at any point in his career, but I think as like a guy off your bench in this style of defense, he kicks a little bit of ass.

47:36Dave Helman: I kind of liked him.

47:38Derrik Klassen: I'm not betting against anybody that D 'Amico Ryans is coaching up. I mean, at the very least, I know they're just going to play like assholes. Compliment, by the way. That's the highest compliment I can give a defender is that you play that way. And that's the Texans entire DNA. So I wouldn't bet against them. My this was actually my seventh overall team. I'm not surprised they fell out of the composite rankings, though, because it's just a lot of guys that you want to feel a little bit better about with like maybe one exception. But the overall talent, like the list of talent is still worth mentioning.

48:17Derrik Klassen: And I think that's the Green Bay Packers. And I think it's been a theme for Green Bay that we're just waiting on all of this young talent to take that next step forward into superstardom. The fact that we're still waiting on that, though, like they do still have right now some really good players. And I think a big part of it, it's easy to lose sight of Tucker Craft because of the injury, but was just headed toward a monster season when he went down last year. I think he's the headliner. Evan Williams, Edger and Cooper, Javon Bullard, Lucas Van Ness. That's not even to mention the really young guys that you're, you know, that we haven't seen as much from like Matthew Golden.

49:00Derrik Klassen: Jordan Morgan is expected to play left tackle this year. You still have Anthony Belton like the young talents here. I just think you look at it and you're like, I just want I just want like half a step more from all of these guys. but they are still, for the most part, solid players.

49:18Dave Helman: Yeah, they were like one of these teams where they have a lot of guys contributing for them on rookie deals, and most of these guys aren't terrible, but it was just like I didn't feel like a lot of them were like giving you surplus value in the way that like the Rams had a million players, and even guys who I think are bench players for them are like giving you surplus value is that. I didn't necessarily feel that way with the Packers, even if they're getting like some snaps from a lot of these guys. I only came away with like, obviously Tucker, but even Tucker craft gets complicated because the injury.

49:48Dave Helman: And so like, it's a lot of it, I think it was, was a little bit tricky for me.

49:52Derrik Klassen: I think that's a great point. Like you're not getting surplus value from the Packers guys. You're getting value, but that's what you're supposed to find. And it's like, there isn't that guy on the Packers where it's like, holy shit, we found him in the fifth round. Like what? Like, it's kind of just Evan Williams.

50:10Dave Helman: Like he's the only one where I feel like you're getting above what you paid for. And like Edron Cooper, I like, but I think I'm still a little bit waiting for like what is fully the next step. Jaden Reed, I think, has settled. That's just like a nice number three, which, again, when you're paying for that on a rookie deal, it's totally fine. But it just doesn't feel like super needle moving for me.

50:28Derrik Klassen: That is another another point of this, too, is Jaden Reed and Christian Watson both signed extensions this spring. That's right. OK, see, that hurts them a little bit more than. No, I mean, if Reed and Watson counted toward this, I would have had them in my top eight with a bullet. but they both signed extensions. They're both as depressing as it is for me to say, becoming older, more veteran players. And so you remember when they were,

50:52Dave Helman: the Packers had all these exciting rookie receivers.

50:54Derrik Klassen: I remember watching Christian Watson. I was at Lambeau when he went nuclear against Dallas in 2022. And I was like, oh yeah, okay, there it is. And he was great. He was fantastic last year. He's definitely had some moments, But that's the Packers in a nutshell. That's why we're talking about them here, where it's just like, ah, I'm waiting on these guys to become real deal stars instead of good players that you want more from.

51:23Dave Helman: I want to ask really quickly, because I feel like that was kind of the end of our fringe. Were there any teams that you looked at that you thought going in, you were like, they're going to be high on my list? And then you actually looked at them and you were like, they didn't end up. I did. They like they didn't end up making the cut because I had one where I was like, I thought they would have got in.

51:43Derrik Klassen: You know, I just mentioned them. I don't know how high I thought they were going to be. But looking at this exercise, I definitely I thought I'd be more impressed by the Cowboys because they have such a reputation for drafting well. And to be clear, they have. But if you take away Tyler Smith, who has signed a multi-year extension, it's a lot of very veteran superstars. I mean, CeeDee Lamb is in year seven at this point. George Pickens is on the franchise tag, which makes him ineligible. You trade for veterans all over your defense, like, you know, Quinnen Williams and Kenny Clark. Obviously, those guys aren't going to count every good player on their defense, with the exception of, like, what we got from rookie Donovan Ezraku is a veteran guy.

52:32And in terms of finding surplus value in the draft,

52:37Derrik Klassen: they've done a good job with their first-round picks. Tyler Booker had a really nice rookie year, but in terms of really finding value outside the first round, the Cowboys' track record over the last three or four years probably isn't as good as the reputation would suggest.

52:52Dave Helman: It's funny. Them and the Steelers and the Jets, I looked at, and I was like, all right, you have three offensive linemen I'm excited about and like not a whole lot else for me to like actually bump you up into the top eight of this exercise. The team that I thought I would have high though and didn't really was the Jaguars. Like I kind of just like, man, they're young, exciting, like all this stuff. But I was like, Brian Thomas Jr. had a really weird season. I like Parker Washington, but I, you know, he's ultimately probably tops out as like a really nice number three or low end number two. Travis Hunter is really talented.

53:26Dave Helman: I I don't know what he's going to end up being. It's just ended up being a lot more guys that were like high-end role players, low-end starters than I thought. And a lot of guys where my thinking was like, they were better last year than I would have thought, but that doesn't mean that they're like, I think they're going to be pro bowlers in the future. So I thought they would end it up higher.

53:45Derrik Klassen: The funny thing about the Jags is that that can happen when you spend for outside free agents and it actually works. like when when your big money additions become pieces of your team. I mean, that's that's awesome when it works out that way, but it doesn't count for an exercise like this. And then, you know, Trayvon Walker got his extension. So I do think the Jags roster is in a pretty good place. They just had to they had to get there more creatively than just nailing picks in the draft. All right. That does it for our top of the heap healthiest rosters. We did want to spend some time on some unhealthy rosters and at least one.

54:28Derrik Klassen: It's just worth talking about from a creative standpoint. We got a little bit more for you on the other side of this break.

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55:07Derrik Klassen: All right, Derek, I build it the way I did before the commercial break on purpose, because we do want to talk about some unhealthy rosters and maybe some teams that haven't drafted as well. that don't have a lot of young rookie contract players contributing for them. I feel weird at the top of this, though, saying that our first team we want to highlight has an unhealthy roster because the Denver Broncos have one of the healthiest rosters in the NFL. They're just paying a shitload of money for it.

55:38Dave Helman: They are like the inverse of this. They're kind of like the Seahawks where they get punished by the parameters of this where like they just don't have that many young rookie players who are like super exciting for them but the whole thing is we've always talked about like oh you get the quarterback on the rookie deal and you maximize it by paying a lot of your players who are coming up and making sure that you're buying free agents that are really high level players for you like in their case talanoa hufanga mike mclinchey all this sort of stuff and they're able to pay for that because they're not paying the quarterback a whole lot and so they're in this weird space where like Like they're doing the ideal team building thing of like, yes, you maximize this window that you have.

56:17Dave Helman: But because of that, in like going hand to hand, also with them just not drafting all that well the past couple of years, it's really just Bo Nix and Riley Moss who are like significant contributors for them on rookie deals. And then maybe whatever you think you're going to get out of like, you know, RJ Harvey is an OK second back. like Pat Bryant was fine for them last year in spots, but it really is just like role players outside of Bo Nix and Riley Moss.

56:44Derrik Klassen: Looking at the Broncos depth chart, of the 22 guys in the starting lineup, 18 of them are on a veteran extension. 11 of those 18 are homegrown players. And like the significant contributors who are not costing the Broncos veteran money, Bo Nix is obvious. and then the contenders for your third receiver spot behind Waddle and Sutton, be it Troy Franklin or Pat Bryant, whoever, it doesn't matter. Those guys are on rookie deals. Riley Moss. And then I would throw in Jaquan McMillan, but even he is on, they gave him the second year restricted tender. So they're even, they're paying him like as much as they could be.

57:30Derrik Klassen: They're paying him like$6 million. So even the restricted guy that's kind of a bargain is still, for his status like on a big contract like there's just not that much left that they have to worry

57:44Dave Helman: about paying and i also think this actually too brings up like the split sometimes and like what roster health means for this year specifically they're an incredibly healthy roster like they built a juggernaut like in the rookie contract window like they are one of the best and healthiest most complete rosters in the nfl but i do think part of this exercise is like the future and i do think that because they have so few of these players who are like young building block pieces I do think you wonder like well if all the if the current roster is incredibly expensive what does this look like in two years I think that is probably the consideration you have to have with

58:19Derrik Klassen: the Broncos yeah Garrett Bowles who was so amazing last year I think he's 34 yeah he's 34 years old Mike came into the league pretty old didn't he yeah he came into the league old and he was also drafted in 2017. Mike McGlinchey is 31 or 32. So yeah, I mean, in two years, this could be a completely different conversation. And, you know, Mays made an interesting point that, you know, should you have traded a first round pick for Jalen Waddell? And if the Broncos win a Super Bowl in the next two years, obviously that will be a resounding yes. Maybe in two years, some shit goes sideways and you say, ah, not having a first round pick.

58:59Derrik Klassen: That was the beginning of our problems. I mean, we see that stuff all the time, but the Broncos are in such a place where I do not blame them one bit for trying to push this thing over the finish line. Cause definitely this year. And I would guess next year as well, they're in as good a spot as you could hope to be in. And you just, you gotta get it done. And I, I would rather somebody, I'd rather somebody push their chips in than hang around the rim in a situation like that. So even if it doesn't work out, I feel fine about it in the big picture.

59:33Dave Helman: I couldn't agree more. Again, it might hurt the health of their team in three years, but we're doing this to win Super Bowls. Go and try to win the Super Bowl. That's what it's about.

59:42Derrik Klassen: So we wanted to highlight the Broncos, not an unhealthy roster, but just a very unique roster. I mean, look around the NFL at the amount of teams asking big things of guys on rookie contracts and compare it to what's going on in Denver. It's just not something you see all the time. There are some other rosters we wanted to talk about that Denver's in a perfectly good spot. There are a few teams that haven't drafted as well over the years who are in a downright unhealthy place. And we wanted to highlight a couple of those. Derek, who do you want to talk about first?

1:00:17Dave Helman: So I think the team that I want to talk about here is the Carolina Panthers. it's like I and what's funny is I actually love a couple of the young players like I love Ted O 'Rourke McMillan I think he's a really really good young player and an extra receiver in a league that I think is moving more towards those Nick Scorton on the other side of the ball is a young defensive end that I think has some promise and then I think even Jalen Coker another wide receiver is pretty promising for them the problem is that's it like that that's pretty much all that they're working with here and you can include Bryce Young here but I think to me including like quarterback 24 or something doesn't really move the needle for me a whole lot.

1:00:52Dave Helman: It's really those like three players who are your young building blocks moving forward.

1:00:57Derrik Klassen: You know that I'm the Bryce Young apologist. You cannot in good conscience list him here considering what the Panthers gave up to get him and where he was drafted. Like for us to be arguing over whether he's a viable option heading into 2026. That just doesn't hold water. And so, yeah, actually, you asked me about teams that I was surprised at how low I was on them. The Panthers absolutely qualify for this because I came away rookie contracts, young players that qualify for this. I came away with Tedaroa McMillan, Nick Scorton, like you said. I threw in Ikiakuanu, but even then, you probably would hope for better from a top 10 pick.

1:01:40Derrik Klassen: And he's also dealing with an injury right now. So you don't even feel 100 % good about that. And there are some other good young players in Carolina, but talking about building blocks and guys you would expect to be around for a long time, that's like as far as I got, dude.

1:01:56Dave Helman: Exactly. Like you can, if you really want, like, you know, Chow Smith-Wade is technically starting. I don't know if he's like a needle moving player to me. Princely Uman-Milin, maybe he can turn into something. But I think, again, you're just like really hard projecting. it does feel to me that like Teddero McMillan, Nick Scorton, Jalen Coker, that's kind of it as far as this particular exercise goes.

1:02:17Derrik Klassen: I guess the lesson that I took away from it though, is ideally you hit on your draft picks. That's the easiest, highest upside way to do this. And the best way to get surplus value. I still feel good about where the Panthers are as a team. And like, if Devin Lloyd and Jalen Phillips hit, But yeah, you're not going to get surplus value for those guys because of how much they cost. But this could still be a really kick-ass team. You just had to go the extra mile in free agency to get there because they just haven't drafted well enough over the last five, six years. Right.

1:02:53Dave Helman: You can still build a pretty dang good roster. Like, let's say Baker Mayfield was the quarterback of this team. Like, what, 11 wins, do you think? Probably? That's probably where I'd put the number.

1:03:04Derrik Klassen: 11 is the number that came into my mind. I absolutely would have them as the pretty clear favorite to win the NFC South.

1:03:12Dave Helman: Yeah. So it can be done. It can be done.

1:03:15Derrik Klassen: I think it not, not to harp on it, but when you move heaven and earth to draft a quarterback, number one overall, and he's, we were still trying to figure out what he is heading into gear four. I think you can, you can suss out why we might be here. in that same vein, a team that I wanted to highlight for a lot of the same reasons, man, the Tennessee Titans, it's just been, it's been a tough go. And you know what, what sucks Derek is the Titans. If you go back far enough, their draft history is chock full of success stories. It just so happens. None of those guys work for the Titans anymore. I mean, if you go back, you're going back a ways.

1:04:00Derrik Klassen: But last time I checked, Derek Henry is still a really, really good NFL player. Kevin Byard led the league in picks last year. Harold Landry was a nice piece of the Super Bowl team. And AJ Brown is still fetching first round picks in the year 2026. None of those guys is with Tennessee anymore, man. They just traded away to Andre Sweat as well.

1:04:22Dave Helman: Like points. They really have drafted fairly well. It's just not a lot of them are on the roster and what's they're in a funny spot too where I think in a lot of cases like I tried to give teams that I thought had an answer at quarterback a little bit of a bump I love Cam Ward like I think he's a really talented player I still think there's a lot to be seen like it's you can't really count him as like an obvious plus I think in a situation like this and so that pretty much just ends up leaving you with whatever you think of their rookie receivers last year which I think ultimately those guys probably settle out as like role players in the NFL.

1:04:55Dave Helman: J.C. Latham, who I think we're still waiting to take a step and was battling some injuries last year. Peter Skaronsky is definitely a good player. And then Cedric Gray on defense is kind of the only guy where I'm like, that's at least an above average NFL starter. Kevin Winston, I think there's like a little bit, I think he could be an interesting player. But again, it's not, there's not really that many stars here and there's not enough of like a

1:05:17Derrik Klassen: breadth of players for you to feel great about it there's more to roster success than hitting on your first round picks but it can go a long way to offsetting a lot of problems and the the titans he doesn't qualify for this but the titans did a fantastic job drafting jeffrey simmons back in 2019 same same year as the aj brown draft jeffrey simmons and aj brown back to back not not bad But then the next year, you start a three-year run where your first round picks are Isaiah Wilson, Caleb Farley, and Traylon Burks. You get one game out of Wilson.

1:05:58Dave Helman: That might be an all-time bad. I didn't realize it was that. I know that they've made all those picks, but for some reason, it never registered to me that those were in a row.

1:06:08Derrik Klassen: You get one game out of Isaiah Wilson. Caleb Farley dealt with injuries. You got 12 games from him across two seasons before he was gone. Burks gave you three years, but caught 53 balls the entire time he was in Tennessee. And like, like I said, I mean, if you're, if you're kicking ass with every other pick, maybe you can offset that. But if you're whiffing that hard with your ones before they finally draft Peter Skaronsky in 2023, it's not a surprise that you look at the Titans roster and you're like, where the hell is all the young talent? And hopefully Cam Ward is the start of getting that course corrected.

1:06:46Derrik Klassen: But you're looking at a lot of outside of Skaronsky, I would say you're looking at a lot of mostly unproven guys and hoping that 2025 and 2026 can be the start of something new.

1:06:59Dave Helman: Right. And again, I know this feels like incongruent with some of the things I've said about Cam Ward. I think he will be good, but for like trying to objectively do this exercise, it just doesn't feel right to call him like an added bonus right now.

1:07:13Derrik Klassen: I watched the quarterback show over the weekend. I just started that. Yeah. Okay. I, we already love Cam Ward. My love for Cam Ward grew exponentially watching that show. He was the highlight of an otherwise kind of uneventful season for me.

1:07:29Dave Helman: I've only seen the first episode so far. So it's like early in the season when he there was a scene where he's watching film of the Broncos defense and it has the play where they drop. They have like four guys on the line of scrimmage and drop them all out. And he's just like, I have never seen that shit before. I'm so glad they only had one play like that on film. It's like, yep, yep.

1:07:47Derrik Klassen: His in an age where especially quarterbacks have to be diplomatic about like everything they say. His honesty. And bluntness was incredibly fun and refreshing. So I already loved Cam Ward, but I'm an even bigger fan now than I was before. All right. We had a couple more teams we want to highlight quickly before we get out of here. Derek, you wanted to talk about not like I wasn't super high on the Bills roster when I did this exercise, but it wasn't something I felt like I needed to highlight. So I'm interested to talk to you about this.

1:08:23Dave Helman: I think they are one where they're the Josh Allen shine, I think, is helping them out a little bit here. I there for guys that like fit into this bucket that we're talking about. I think you have Osiris Torrance. You have Dalton Kincaid, who is really good when he's been healthy. And then Dayon Walker, I thought was an exciting nose tackle last year. Other than that, it's a lot of guys who are role players or you are really trying to project something like a TJ Sanders or like a Landon Jackson who didn't really play for them last year because he was injured. Like it's a lot of guys like that. It's not a lot of like consistent contributors.

1:08:56Dave Helman: So I actually think the Bills roster is good. Like, I think, you know, the defense still needs some help, but I think it should be acceptable next year. And the offense, I think, is pretty good now that they have DJ Moore. But I think if we're trying to talk about this specific bucket of players, they did not have as many as I would have hoped.

1:09:14Derrik Klassen: What are your thoughts on Cole Bishop heading into year three? I feel like he's a guy that we haven't talked a whole lot about.

1:09:20Dave Helman: I probably should have actually included him here. I think he's somewhere between way better than he was as a rookie and not nearly as good as Tony Romo would like you to believe based on the broadcast. Every time Cole Bishop made a play, especially in the playoffs, he was like, this is the greatest safety I've ever seen. I'm like, he's not a problem now and he makes some plays. But I do think that that is one I should have added. But even still, like Bishop to me, I think needs to show more before I like truly believe that that is like an additive, like getting a ton of value here sort of player and pick.

1:09:52Derrik Klassen: The Bills strike me as a team that is here for a good time, not a long time. Like we don't have time to wait around on draft picks to develop into guys that can be meaningful for us. And that's why you do stuff like trade for DJ more. And also when you're picking between 26 and 32 every year, I think it's harder to find those guys that can immediately be better than what's already available. That's probably copium to a degree, though, because that is I mean, that is the quickest way. The Rams been picking their roster is pretty good. That's I mean, you're right. I mean, that's the quickest way.

1:10:31Derrik Klassen: like if you were trying to add jet fuel to the bills roster, the quickest way would be to hit a grand slam in the draft, no matter where you're picking. And it does feel like they've obviously drafted some good players over the years. Osiris Torrance has been like a good player, especially for where he was drafted, but it would do wonders for the bills to find that guy. Cause even if Dalton Kincaid is good, he's not what you imagined when they made him the first tight end taken in that draft, you know,

1:11:01Dave Helman: A lot of their picks kind of feel that way, where it's like they're not, a lot of their picks and players feel that way. Like, they're not abject failures. They don't draft a lot of guys that, to me, like, completely fizzle out. It's just a lot of guys that, like, you would have hoped that they could be a 87 overall for you, and they're like an 81. And it's like, at a certain point, that really starts to stack up when you are a team that very obviously has, like, Super Bowl aspirations.

1:11:25Derrik Klassen: I think that's a valid point. And I think that's probably why the bills didn't stand out to me is like, yeah, this isn't the most exciting group in the NFL, but it's not bad. And I think that's true. But when you're trying to get over the hump, it yeah, like that's probably not good enough. Like you got to find it from somewhere. Maybe that'll be Bradley Chubb and DJ Moore, though. I mean, they do. They enjoy trying to solve these problems with veterans. Maybe it will eventually work out for them. one last team I wanted to highlight. We don't have to spend a lot of time on it because it's the same story as the Tennessee Titans, but my God, Derek have the Washington commanders been a roster building wasteland for a lot of recent history.

1:12:12Derrik Klassen: So I looked this up because I went through their draft history. I was just curious. Jaden Daniels is obviously he's doing a ton of heavy lifting for you. And I think you have to feel relatively good about the commanders just because he's on a cost controlled contract for the foreseeable future. But man, between 2020 and 2023, the commanders made 33 draft picks. And like four of those players are still on the team. And only two of them are guys that you would look to, to fill starting roles, like Sam Cosme and Chris Paul. Like that's, that's the extent of it. Like Quan Martin's hanging around and John Bates is still in the tight end room, but four ish guys out of 33 between 20 and 23.

1:13:03Derrik Klassen: If you're wondering how the commanders wound up here.

1:13:06Dave Helman: I think if we removed quarterbacks from the equation here with this the commanders would be dead last and I don't even think I would think very hard about it like I obviously Jaden Daniels does a ton of lifting for you here but like Connerly I think among the rookie tackles last year probably had the roughest season even if he did turn it around a little bit at the end Ja 'Cory Krosky-Meritt was never as good as like the preseason hype would have had led you to believe um and I think that he struggled to like retain a starting role and then like the young DBs are okay like Mike Sandler still and Trey Amos I think there's some reason to believe they could be good but that's kind of it like there's a reason I think that this team went out and spent

1:13:43Derrik Klassen: like a billion dollars on defense this offseason I'm not giving up on Mikey Sandler still I'm intrigued by Johnny Newton and what he was able to do last year but yeah if you're looking for slam dunks that outside of Jaden and by the way Jaden was beat to shit last year there's not a lot here that you can definitively say you feel good about. I'm perfectly happy to see what year two holds for Josh Connerly and Trey Amos as well. And maybe those guys can change things up and make this look a hell of a lot better than it does right now. But right now you look through it. And yeah, I think Adam Peters, he's not counting this year's draft.

1:14:26Derrik Klassen: In 24 and 25, Adam Peters made 14 draft picks. and Jaden is the only one that you can pretty confidently say is like, yes, that's great. And I remember saying in 2024, like, you're going to have this huge draft class. You've got a chance to, like, rewrite what this roster looks like. And right now, that's just not really the case. We will see how it ages, though. This was perfect pre-training camp content, Derek, because it just gave me an excuse to go through and look at every depth chart in detail. Did you know AJ Epinesa is an eagle now, by the way?

1:15:05Dave Helman: Yes.

1:15:06Derrik Klassen: I think that happened while I was on my honeymoon. I had no clue.

1:15:10Dave Helman: I had been waiting for them to sign somewhere for a team that was like, knows they have a decent pass rush but could use one more guy, and the Eagles were like, yeah, duh, that's the perfect spot for that.

1:15:23Derrik Klassen: very excited to uh re-familiarize myself with all the depth charts very excited for training camp to get rolling which it will soon we got plenty more content coming y 'all's way robert is beginning his training camp tour like now so from here on out we will have content coming to you from nfl training camps as practices get underway until then that's all we got for now we appreciate y 'all we'll talk to you soon thanks for tuning in make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

1:16:20Derrik Klassen: Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card.