Which team will make the wrong all-in trade? Plus, Jonathan Taylor's robust trade market & Lamar Jackson's future

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3:08Robert Mays: since future in Baltimore. Charles wrote about it this week. I'm very interested in all of the dynamics feeding into whether Lamar will be back, what the market for him might look like, why the Ravens may have to trade him even if they don't want to. So we spent a good chunk at the top of the show discussing Lamar before digging into the trade market and the landscape in general before we get to a potentially wild NFL trade deadline. Let's dig into that with me and Charles Robinson right now.

3:43Robert Mays: Joining us to help us sort through all of the news about a week away from the NFL trade deadline from NFL Blue Book. First time I've said that it is our old friend, Charles Robinson. Charles, how you doing, man? How you doing, brother? I'm doing great. This is a grand reopening, right? How are things going? I want people to just tell, I want you to tell people what the project that you're working on, how long you've been doing it, essentially what they can get if they subscribe. Just lay it out for people a little bit where your home is right now and what that work looks like. Yeah, it's NFL Blue Book.

4:19Launched it in August. Really, right now it's kind of a linear breeding experience in terms of covering the league, but I think the overall goal and what I would like subscribers to be able to get out of it in the future is really covering NFL front offices is more of a beat. more of an ecosystem. I think that's something that certainly we get coverage of front offices from all kinds of different places. But it really is like, as I said, sort of in an intro column, this is like covering 32 countries with their own cultures, their own style of doing things, different leadership. So, you know, eventually I would like to get it onto that track.

4:55You know, baby steps into it right now. I just want people to know this is where I'm at. Come to NFL Blue book, subscribe. It's free.

5:02Robert Mays: I think what I find interesting about this is that and even like the first intro piece that you did about the Rams specifically and just like the inner workings of their thought processes and why they do things a certain way, why they approach things a certain way. I think that a lot of the coverage of NFL front offices in modern NFL media and journalism is just coverage of transactions. It's not necessarily about process. It's not about dynamics. It's not about how buildings operate. And I mean, I would even something as simple as I would love like an org chart, not what the published org chart is.

5:32Robert Mays: I would love an actual flow chart of decision making as accurate as we could get it for all 32 buildings, because I think that even a 75 percent estimate of what it looks like, I think would be fascinating for NFL fans. And so beyond just what is the decisions being made, the draft picks, the free agent signings, that's typically what we focus on. But how those decisions get made and what those conversations and what the dialogue looks like in the places where it's happening, I think that is absolutely white space that is there for the taking. And so I'm very glad that you are taking this on in the way that you are.

6:04I appreciate it. That's definitely interesting. You're giving away content already because there is eventually going to hopefully be an ability to trot out flow charts for every team. Answering the age-old question of like who actually has authority over the 53? Is it in their contract or is it, you know, mutually shared? Is that real? So, yeah, it's a soap opera. You and I both know. I mean, personnel departments unto themselves are just absolute soap operas in terms of how they operate and, you know, the relationships with both the players and the coaching staff. So I'm fascinated by it, and I hope in the future readers will be too.

6:37Robert Mays: We'll go one step deeper on this before we get into actual movement that I want to talk about. But even something as simple as GM hirings, right? So when a head coach gets hired in the NFL, you at least, for the most part, have some awareness of his body of work and his former job. You see the resume, right? Yes. You know what their offense looks like. You know what their defense looks like. There are other guys who, you know, more untraditional backgrounds, maybe like John Harbaugh. It's like, well, is he a good special teams coordinator? Like, every once in a while, they're going to be scattered guys where the lines are a little bit less clear.

7:10Robert Mays: But for the most part, we know what their purview was in their previous role, how good they were at it, and whatever that says or does not say about them jumping into the next role. In NFL front offices, there's total opacity. Like if you hire somebody to be the GM of your NFL franchise, all you know about is the moves that really are tied to their boss's decisions. What did they do? Why would they be good at the job? Really, we only have a sense of the organizational success from where they came from as a way to give us any sort of marker or signal about how good they're going to be in the job.

7:43Robert Mays: And so I think even shining a little bit of light on that, like, OK, specific examples. Ian Cunningham gets hired to be the GM of the Atlanta Falcons from coming from the Chicago Bears. What did he do there? Like, what were why would he be good for that job? Like, what were the positives or negatives in terms of his influence on the building that might lead us to understand how he might be in the next role? That doesn't exist for the most part. Right. It's kind of like, oh, he was with a good franchise, a good organization. That's good enough for me. And so there's, I think, so much to be learned about all of this stuff.

8:12Robert Mays: And it's a fascinating world. And yeah, you and I obviously share that interest and fascination. All right, let's dig into some of the specifics from some player movement that has happened and that may be happening over the next week or so as we embark on what I think has a chance to be a pretty interesting NFL trade deadline. We got lucky about five minutes before we started recording. There was a piece of news that bleeds into the first conversation I wanted to have. Jacoby Percet headed to the Baltimore Ravens. Sounds like the deal will be completed this weekend per Adam Schefter. Made a lot of sense for the Ravens to do something like this.

8:47Robert Mays: Snoop Huntley obviously out for the season. Lamar potentially out for the season. We got Joe Fagnano starting on Thursday. Not sure how many more of those that we were going to get. Arizona moves on from Bursette, puts him on the bench in the middle of last week's game against the Cowboys. So maybe not a surprise, but still notable that Bursette is the answer that Baltimore landed on in terms of who's going to play quarterback for them in the near future. Yeah, and it's interesting because it tells you something, I think, about two franchises here. Well, really three if we want to throw in the Cardinals as well.

9:15But I think we know what's going on with the Cardinals right now. You're moving off of whatever assets you can to build draft capital because it's a long build. But what I think is interesting here is the whole Tyson-Bajan, you know, the tie to like Declan Doyle. And I thought, all right, we're going to see what Chicago thinks of, number one, its season, right? Number two, its ability to have an available player in case, you know, something happens again with Caleb Williams. So I think it shows that for them to keep Bajan, I think shows we know we have our Super Bowl shot right now. And we're keeping this piece in place because no matter what you could have offered us, it's not more important than us having that backstop just in case.

9:56And I also think, though, it tells us something about the Ravens, because to me, if you go out and you get a player like Tyson, his runway is long. It's significantly longer than a Jacoby Brissett. And in my mind, I'm thinking, are you kind of shadow giving yourself an option in case something happens with Lamar Jackson? In case you go to Lamar and say, hey, OK, so we've got this$84 million plus cap charge. What team would you like to be traded to? We can potentially facilitate that. It's easier to do that if you have Bajan on the roster and you've given him a trial run through the rest of the 2026 season.

10:36And so had they gone and gotten Bajan, then I would have reassessed Lamar Jackson's situation there because I would have felt like, oh, they're giving themselves another tool on the table, maybe in the way that not a lot of people talked about it. But when, you know, the Houston Texans went out and got Marvin Harrison Jr., it wasn't just to add Marvin Harrison Jr. and hope that that upside was still accessible. I think it also spoke a little bit to the future Nico Collins, you know, a deal that's got to get done. So, yeah, so I think it's interesting that you lean into the guy that has the shortest runway.

11:10That's the cheapest option that basically just gets you through the 2026 season with this experience.

11:15Robert Mays: Makes total sense for where they are right now. Again, you just get through the year. Hopefully you're a playable offense. It's watchable. You stay relatively competitive, even if I think a playoff trip is probably off the table for this team. But in my opinion, I mean, you're going to be a lot Lamar for the rest of the year. It was mostly just about can we make sure that year one of Jesse Minter and Declan Doyle just doesn't completely fall apart? Yeah. Right. Can you just keep it on the rails to an extent? And I think that's exactly what this deal gives you. But the conversation I wanted to have with you, because I find this entire situation so compelling and you wrote about it this week, is what actually happens with Lamar Jackson and what his future looks like.

11:52Robert Mays: So just to lay out, put it all on the table, kind of where we are right now. This is my thinking about it. Obviously, Lamar has that$85 million cap hit next year. He cannot play on an$85 million cap hit. There is something that's going to need to happen. Either they restructure it, throw a couple more void years on there, try to do something to get that thing down. They reach a contract extension with him before next season starts, or they ultimately trade him. And the reason this is such a sticking point, and you laid this out, and I think this has been a popular discussion topic, he has more leverage in this situation than I think any quarterback about to hit the market has had probably since Dak Prescott negotiated his most recent deal.

12:33Robert Mays: And I think you could argue that Lamar might even have more given the fact that this is a multi-time MVP who is still just 30 years old and I think would be a very hot commodity, which we'll talk about if he were to ultimately reach the market. And you add on top of that, let's call him enigmatic, right? If we're going to use a word here, I mean, it's a strange situation because I think that in almost any other interaction between a team and a quarterback or a team and a player of any kind, we would get more messaging on either side because there would be an agent doing some of the messaging. I think the Ravens have done a really good job of softly treading around a lot of the Lamar Jackson stuff because they don't want to be negotiating in the media.

13:16Robert Mays: He obviously isn't somebody that's going to be doing that because he doesn't have an agent. And so there's just no visibility into what his thinking is or where this could possibly go. There's a chance that he's just like, you know what? I'm done. Right? Like, this is it. I've had a good time. I appreciate my time here. I want to hit free agency, one, for the financial upside that it could potentially represent if there are multiple suitors. And two, my time with the organization is done. And if that, I don't know what the percentages of that are. But if you get out of like next offseason and you think it's like a 50-50 shot that that's happening, you almost feel compelled to trade him because the worst case scenario at the end of all of this, in my opinion, is you let him walk after the 2027 season for a third round compensatory pick.

14:00Robert Mays: that is like a nuclear catastrophic option that cannot happen and so even even if you think that's possible you're in a spot where like man we don't want to do this but we almost have to do it for the long-term health and success of the franchise if we think there's any realistic option he walks away into the market yeah i mean you've painted yourself into a corner like it's just it's it's it's absolutely unfathomable that you're going to i mean you just can't figure out that 84 million cap load in 2027. And it's interesting because when I wrote the piece, and man, I really wish this was a conversation that I had before the piece running.

14:37An executive read it and he called me and he said, you know, there's one other point I would make about Lamar. And I thought this was a great point. I would have stolen it, but I know he watches this show. So I'm going to have to say it was not my point. But he said to me, he goes, look, man, there's the no trade clause, the no tag clause. And he said, look at Lamar's career history as a football player. He has never, ever put himself into a leverage point that he did not use to his full advantage. He said, if you go back to college, there were major programs that wanted him as a wide receiver, wanted to maybe move him to corner, all these different things.

15:15Lamar said, nope, I'm going to be a quarterback. He leveraged it, obviously plays quarterback throughout his college career then he's coming into the nfl draft and i don't you know i had the old charlie casserly thing um or bill pollian thing about like um man how how could i confuse charlie casserly and bill uh but there was the whole thing like you know polling would have liked to have seen him at wide receiver other teams would like to have seen him at wide receiver he said no not going to do that right he went his own way and again uses his leverage like just puts his foot down as i'm playing quarterback he plays quarterback comes in the league as a quarterback We go through the first negotiation, right?

15:53He's kept quiet. He not having an agent. Again, as you said, there's no messaging. We don't know how Lamar felt about it. We're just sort of guessing. Then he comes out on social media, demands a trade. I think it was a month after he demanded the trade, the Ravens agreed to the highest paid quarterback deal at that time in history. So he has used this, every leverage point he's had, he's always stood on business. And now he has put himself in a situation where they can't call a shot. I mean, there's just no way. He says, fine, you want to trade me? I will go figure out where exactly I need to get traded to.

16:30And you can figure out the compensation. Otherwise, I will play through 2027. Whether you want to add void years, you can figure it out. You do the math yourself. You do the cap gymnastics. It's not his problem. It's not his problem. Right. It's not my problem. How you handle this. Right. So if he's used his leverage every single time we've seen his ability to do so, why would we think? And that's what bothered me about about, you know, the injury occurs. And then the next day we have, you know, there's just all this talk like that's it. He's done. He's done. Not unless he says he's done. Like he's the one who gets the call that shot.

17:03And, you know, why would he work to negotiate a no trade, no tag clause into his situation if he was not going to use it? If he was not going to leverage it, he's not just going to give it back. He's not going to give it away. He's going to use it. So to me, that's what's so fascinating about this. And, you know, someday there's going to be a book written on Lamar. And I think there should be some chapters devoted to like his mindset and how he went about contracts, playing the position of quarterback and basically pushing back on the system that so often, you know, kind of has one up on players.

17:39Robert Mays: It's interesting just when players don't have an agent, what it allows them to do. And I think that it allows you to do a few different things. You know, there was some talk this week about what happened when Caleb Williams signs his extension. He doesn't have an agent. He's been open about the fact that he's like, money isn't important to me, right? Like, I'm not, I would be willing to take a little bit less. And some of the responses to that have been like, well, players never do that. Well, players never do that in part because they have agents that they have to answer to. And agents can't take less because then how are you going to go to your other clients and be like, oh, yeah, this guy took a discount.

18:10Robert Mays: And so it works the same way the other way. Laramie Tunsil is one of the best businessmen in the history of professional football. He's been able to do multiple different times over in negotiating contracts because he's willing to take some of this stuff all the way in the way that Lamar clearly is as well. And so I think that some of the guys that haven't had agents and what that has done to the way that they've negotiated and kind of when you're only answering to yourself in some of these negotiations, it allows you to be creative in how you approach some of this stuff. And I think that's what makes the dynamic here particularly interesting.

18:46Robert Mays: And it shrouds it completely in mystery. And so we're allowed to just run wildly with any thought we could have about how it all goes. And I think that's why it's ripe for these sorts of discussions and these sorts of like analyses. And, you know, another thing, too, if you think about it, it puts teams, it's awkward footing when you can't blame the agent, right? Like we've seen so many negotiations. How many times have we seen, you know, how many times have you talked to a GM and as soon as the, you know, it's like off the record and you're sitting there and they start pissing and moaning about, well, it's that guy.

19:19He's in the way. He's the problem. it's you know it's David Moologat is the problem or it's you know who are Tom I remember years and years it was Tom Condon's the problem well when it's just the player you're you're sitting there and you're saying well man I got to be careful here because I'm damaging not only my relationship but a guy who's the face of my franchise I can't point the finger at anybody else I got to point it at Lamar so what have the right and that's like you said they've done a good job I think historically of skirting that, right? Just kind of staying on the edge of it. Occasionally pieces come out about Lamar and you're like, okay, that's certainly driven from somewhere inside the organization, but certainly not as often as we see negative stories about agents who are driving hard bargains rather than players.

20:05Robert Mays: So let's just say hypothetically, he wants to be a free agent. He wants to take this thing all the way. And now the Ravens are in a place where, okay, if we think again, I don't know what the percentage is. If there's a 60 % chance we think that he might ultimately hit the market, you're in a position where you are compelled to trade him for the long-term health of the franchise. What do we think that market looks like, both from a number of suitors' perspective and who those suitors might be and what the price eventually could be if somebody ultimately got the green light from Lamar from the Ravens about a trade happening?

20:42Well, you know, I think it would be, man, I hate answering this because the last time we went through this, I thought the market would be robust. Like, I remember thinking the Atlanta Falcons are going to go get this guy. It's going to cost a couple first round picks and go get him. And then that just didn't happen. And there wasn't this like super robust market for whatever, you know, the reasons were at that time. And now I think it's complicated by, look, he's missed games four out of the last six years, right? And I do think there's a plus, oddly, that he injured his thumb and not his lower body, right?

21:18Like that, I think, is the real scare here is the depreciating asset of running in the NFL. If you got a quarterback and part of their game is really predicated on mobility and their ability to just create, you know, be a creator at the position, and that starts to be your lower body starts to be the depreciating asset. I mean, look at Aaron Rodgers, right? When Aaron Rodgers lost the ability to still run and do some of the things he could, it changed, I think, fundamentally who he was. So I think if you're a team that's looking at him, you have to understand where his health is at. You have to understand that he's fully bought into what your culture and your plan is, your coaching staff, your build, your roster.

22:00You have to know that the money can fit. So I do think that skinnies it a little bit. If none of these were, you know, if the money wasn't a problem or, you know, you didn't have to have the buy-in, all these different things. I think a lot of teams, half the league would probably want him. You know, but I look at, you know, Miami as a destination that seems to make sense. I think he would, you know, Lamar Jackson likes Miami, but does the roster build really fit? The long-term vantage fit? The New York Jets, same situation. Aaron Glenn might not even be their head coach next year, right? And so, and we've seen, I mean, if you want to blame ownership, whatever you want to blame, there's a reason for futility there and the fact that it's, you know, it's been an expanse of time since anything's gone right.

22:45So I think that's the one. I think Minnesota, to me, is the interesting one. because of the fact that we're just not seeing the offense grow under Kyler Murray, maybe that changes the second half of the season. But I think Kevin O 'Connell is the type of coach that I think would connect with Lamar, number one. Number two, I think he would be very good at molding the offensive scheme around what Lamar would want to do. I find it hard to believe Brian Flores is going to get a head coaching job. No matter what people want to say, I do think the loss will always undercut that. And so I think you have all these different elements that open a window very immediately and you have traction instantly.

23:26The only other team that in my brain, and, you know, financially it's really not possible when you think about it, but in my brain, the only other franchise where I'm like, they've shown an ability to be super aggressive in the past is like, what if Matt Stafford retired after this season? And I'd be like, I'd ask Sean McVay, like, hey, man, do you think there's any way you could figure out a way to go after Lamar? and would you want to? And, you know, I think that's probably just a, that's me, dreamcasting.

23:55Robert Mays: But I don't think that's unreasonable. I think one of the biggest barriers to that is obviously they don't have a first round pick in 27. They have one in 28, but obviously there's more picks coming down the line to go to the Browns. And so they don't have the stable of draft capital that some of these other teams do. But in terms of being willing to do it, that wouldn't surprise me at all. There are two things I wanted to touch on that you said. The first one is I push back on the notion, and this is not coming from you. This is from people that say this shit all the time. about, well, Omar's aid game isn't going to age well.

24:22Robert Mays: He had the way that he moves and what he does as a runner. It's like, he still does some of that. His 2024 season is one of the greatest like pocket passing quarterback seasons we've ever seen in the NFL. He's a phenomenal player from the pocket at this stage of his career. And so I think even if he's less mobile moving forward, you are still getting a guy who threw 40 touchdown passes and was insane from that space two years ago. And so I think there are a lot of elements of his game that will age perfectly fine. And I still think he has a chance to be a top five quarterback, an elite level quarterback, an MVP level quarterback for the next several years, even if the athleticism starts to diminish a little bit.

25:03Robert Mays: The second part, I'm curious what your take is on this. when I talk to people when the tag thing happened and there was no interest, we talk about collusion and we can talk about how people didn't want to be the team that ultimately went out and allowed the Ravens to get strong-armed. All that, I think, is a legitimate conversation. But the real answer I heard from people in those moments were, well, why would we negotiate a deal when we know the Ravens are just going to match it? why would we do all the homework when we know the Ravens are just going to match it anyway? That element is removed here.

25:40Robert Mays: There is a price. And if you pay the price, Lamar Jackson is your quarterback. And I still think even with some of the things that people are going to say and the reasons that maybe he isn't as valuable as we're going to make him out to be, they're still in my mind. With those circumstances in front of you, there is a price. And if we pay it, Lamar Jackson is the quarterback of our team tomorrow. there are going to be teams that want to do that i still like in my bones believe there are going to be multiple teams that want to do that that do drive up a market for him because he's still one of the best football players in the world full stop when he is healthy and those guys do not become available for any price ever i i think it's completely fair to say that there are multiple teams that would be interested but my question back to you would be is he interested in multiple teams right that's i mean that's a complicated factor right like that that to me is what shrinks it maybe more than anything else right because it's not to cut you off but like let's think back to cousins right he could have gone to the jets for more money he wasn't going to the jets he ended up going to the minnesota vikings they paid a boat you know a boatload of money and and in the long view of history frankly okay we can argue about the playoffs and stuff but there was success there when kurt cousins was there you could argue it was the money was well spent given where the quarterback market was going and everything but you know he had a market of realistically once you got to the 27 to 30 million mark he had a market of two technically but it was really only a market of one because he was never going to go play for the new york jets so that's the only thing that that sticks with me is like lamar can skinny his own market and and i'm sure he would i think atlanta is interesting just from a where they're at as a franchise perspective i think that part is interesting this is a front office and a coaching staff that did not pick michael penix even if I think Michael Penix is a fine young quarterback.

27:27Robert Mays: The Jets, I completely understand where you're coming from, and there's tons of validity to that. I watch the Jets right now, though, and I look at what they have along the offensive line, what they have in the receiver room with the way that A.D. Mitchell and Omar Cooper are playing. Kenny and Sadiq is there. You still have Brees Hall. The organizational stability part of this is obviously going to be the biggest question, and I hadn't really thought of this until just now. If you're Woody Johnson, and you think there's a chance that you can get Lamar Jackson. We heard all summer about the quality of the relationship between Lamar Jackson and Declan Doyle.

28:03Robert Mays: Do you go out and try to hire Declan Doyle in the hopes that it allows you to potentially get Lamar Jackson and you drop Lamar Jackson into the current offensive situation with all of that talent that you currently have right now? Is that enough? That's where my mind would be at if I were the Jets because I do think that they have enough already with what they have on offense specifically where you could talk yourself into this maybe not accelerating their timeline in the way that it would, in my opinion, for a team like the Dolphins. But what you described, and in all due respect to Darren Muge, what you described is ownership-driven, right?

28:44So I guess I would ask you, is there a track record there from ownership that aspect because it really is an ownership decision once you get to this kind of money and then all the moving parts you're really creating you know what you're bringing in um do you believe in wood no i i think you're competent that's totally competent what you just described i'm like yeah that makes sense to me like i i could certainly see teams doing that but i then i immediately look at the owner and i go is this owner capable of doing that I don't know.

29:18Robert Mays: My only pushback to that, and I think the Jets are a different example than what I'm about to say. Would you, if I had, three years ago, four years ago, if I had told you, do you believe in George McCaskey? Yeah, I mean, that's a, no, I do not. That's a, but. And the other example I always use is like the Rams. Do you believe in Stan Kroenke? before Sean McVay got there? Do you believe in the Ford family before Dan Campbell got there? Like, I think that there can be transformative figures that can change the way that we talk and think about franchises. And is a Declan Doyle, Lamar Jackson, the type that can overcome bad ownership?

30:00But Robert, you just described, I mean, think of the head coaches, right? So what you have to get right now, I think. You need one of those guys.

30:07Robert Mays: You need one of those guys. And I don't know that Declan Doyle is one of those guys. No, I have no idea. He's 30 years old. But it's just, It's the, I think that's my only pushback to it is that we have these opinions sometimes that are lasting of franchises and their futility. And it only takes one thing to change that. Right. And in the, in the Bengals case, it was a quarterback. It wasn't even a head coach. Like Zach does a really good job. But I think Joe, Joe Burrow was the transformative piece that ultimately changes the fortunes and the feel of what the Cincinnati Bengals franchise feels like.

30:36Robert Mays: And so I just, I, I get it. Like there are teams that shoot themselves in the foot and their own worst enemy constantly. And the Jets are probably at the top of that list. But I think we have enough examples and even recent history where the what you think when you look at the logo changes because of one or two people who walk into the building. And would Lamar Jackson be enough to potentially shift that for you if you were the New York Jets? Whether he's interested in it or not is a completely different conversation. But it'll be fascinating. Like, this is one where I don't, I feel bad for Ravens fans as we talk about this, because I want to be very clear that I'm not trying to ship Lamar Jackson out of Baltimore.

31:13Robert Mays: I have no interest in that. I feel like we're always trying to do it, right? I have no interest in that. If Lamar came out tomorrow and he was like, I want to be here, right? I want to be here. Let's get this thing done. I'd be over the moon. I love watching that team with Lamar Jackson. I had so much fun watching the offense for the first two weeks. the idea of coming back and running that back with Zay and Declan Doyle and Lamar and one more year Derek Henry let's get the band back together great but if he doesn't want to be there then it pushes us to the place where we have to talk about it the way that we're currently talking about it so that I if I were a Ravens fan that would be my response to that discussion being like you guys like what are you why are you doing this to me oh and they do they say that's not what I mean that I don't want to do this this isn't fantasy football where I want to see Lamar somewhere else I would love to see him in Baltimore forever, but I think that because we don't have that much visibility into what he wants to do, it kind of changes things a little bit.

32:09Yeah, and it's funny because I don't think fans understand the amount of the peak we get behind the curtain from agents. And, you know, sometimes they certainly they manipulate it, right? They do. But it really has been just an empty. It's an empty void with Lamar. Like, I can't even tell you. There's so many times where we would get into these conversations about Lamar and I'm like, I literally don't know what that guy thinks. I don't know what he I don't know how he feels about certain teammates. I don't know if he's still eating candy all the time. I have no idea why he's missing practice every single week.

32:46You know why you like every single week he doesn't show for practice until, you know, Thursday or whatever. Like all these I'd love to have answers for these questions. But realistically, Lamar's the only guy who can give you those answers, and he's not really inclined to do it.

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36:09Robert Mays: so before we an hour before we started recording this one of my next follow-up questions was going to be who's going to be the quarterback of the ravens for the rest of this season we have an answer to that now my other big lingering question here is did the ravens do anything else like how do the ravens see the end of the 2026 season because one of the other things that you mentioned in your piece is that this is an aging core even outside of lamar jackson i think that has to at least influence your decision-making at some point and how you see the rest of the roster over the next year. And so is there anybody on this team, if they think that this season is beyond salvaging, that would be worth calling about, whether it be Derrick Henry or somebody else?

36:47You know, like Roquan, I think it's, you have to ask yourself, what are we doing with Lamar, right? Because if you're preparing for, we're going to have an extension in place, So we're going to have another four years with Lamar. Then you start adjusting based on that timeline. But as I said in the piece, the problem with this roster is, and really the fundamental question that you have to ask about the Ravens, if you even want to discuss a Lamar Jackson departure is, well, then what? Like, what's next? And for this roster, when you look at how it's constructed, there's some core pieces, certainly, but it's a rebuild.

37:26Like you're rebuilding a quarterback and you're rebuilding at everything else because of how the offense is structured around him, right? The age of some of the fundamental pieces. Yeah. So to me, unless you somehow magically have some other veteran quarterback who you're like, we can go get that guy and he'll step in and we can still, you know, have a useful window here. To me, it looks like a rebuild. So I don't think, I think Jacoby Brissett to me suggests they're going to make the best of the remainder of this season, but it's going to be fairly static. They're not going to start selling off pieces because frankly, Robert, if you were going to do that, why would you go get Brissett?

38:07Right? Like, why would you go get, I mean, why, why even add like, you know, drive it into the ground then if that's how the rest of the season is going to go and, and influence future draft capital in hopes of, okay, well, Lamar's going to come back. Yeah, man, we basically tanked it. Like once you went out, I guess, you know, I guess the argument, the counter argument to that would be, well, they did go get kind of the cheapest thing they could available and with the shortest timeline. But it to me just signals they're going to make the best they can of the remainder of the schedule. And I would be surprised if they start selling off any meaningful pieces.

38:41You have to over offer, I think, to go get anything of real relevancy off that.

38:47Robert Mays: And I think that makes sense because if you let you, you don't know right now, right? Like you don't know whether Lamar is going to be your quarterback next year. I think they're probably really hoping that he is to the point that they're planning that he is. And if that's the case, I think you owe it to yourself to do everything you can to maximize the 2027 season. Because even if like Marlon Humphrey is not going to be on this team next year, Roquan probably will be right. Like Derrick Henry can be. And so if you're going to bring Lamar back, I do think you do have enough of that core and enough of a window in 2027 where sacrificing the ability to maximize that window isn't worth the fourth round pick that you would get for Derek.

39:27Robert Mays: Exactly. Yep. Like, I just don't think you can do it that way. So I completely understand that thought process. What useful pieces do you think? Like, if you're going and you're getting a piece in Baltimore, it's going to be a veteran who can step in, right, and start for you right away. It's going to be Henry or Roquan, right? Yes, I think those are probably the two guys. And those two guys are tied to Lamar. Like, to me, that's how I look at it. I'm like, they got to be. If you're making that move, you're kind of making a Lamar statement. And I think they're in that purgatory where they can't.

39:56Robert Mays: Yeah, and beyond the you owe it to yourself to maximize the window in 2027, I think you're in a place right now where you have to do everything you can to message to Lamar Jackson that we're still trying to win as much as we can. Like, anything you do counter to that, I think, can be harmful to you right now because at the core of it, the last thing we'll say about Lamar, the most important thing I think the Baltimore Ravens can do in the next six months is convince Lamar Jackson to play quarterback for them in the long term. I think that is the most important thing that they have to do, and I think every decision you make, if it touches that even a little bit, you have to keep that in mind if you are Baltimore right now.

40:35Robert Mays: That is not the case for a team like the Indianapolis Colts that I think is very much open for business as we have seen over the last week or so. What do we think the Jonathan Taylor market currently looks like? And who do you think the teams are that might be interested in meeting whatever price that ends up settling at? I think it's pretty strong. I think it's a pretty good market. He's clear. I talked to a couple of people. I'm actually working on a bit of a trade market piece. And I talked to people earlier today and they're like, look, this guy, he's a real weapon. And he's not just the real weapon in the short term.

41:09he's got a couple more years of being a centerpiece running back who can carry your team when you need it I think the Vikings to me make a ton of sense I think you know the Broncos the thing about the Broncos is I wonder like do you have to send back Jonah Coleman like it's it's sort of interesting how that backfield would look if you add a Jonathan Taylor to it, but I know Sean Payton would love to have this type of a back to count on game in and game out. I think you have to look at the Seahawks realistically. And then I think the Packers, with what's going on right now with the Packers and the whole off-field stuff that's going on with Josh Jacobs and whether or not that's going to have a future kind of return to prominence in terms of, you know, is he, is he going to be eligible?

42:04He's not going to, you know, is he going, is there going to be another commissioner's, you know, exemplist situation, or are we past that? And then, you know, just from a production standpoint, I think there's questions about whether or not he's, he's going to have an ability to turn that around. So to me, that's really the four teams that I think that like you make calls right now and you talk to teams and they'll tell you like wide receiver seems to be the hot kind of position. And then running back is the next top position, but it's really a Jonathan Taylor conversation. Like, if he doesn't get traded, now I will actually be surprised because I do think a team will be willing to pay to get him.

42:41Robert Mays: Did you say the Giants? I did not say the Giants. That would have been my fifth. That's my other team that I think would land on the list. I just don't know. If you talk to people inside the Giants, there's still some belief that Scadaboo, can get his head on straight. You know, there's still some belief that, and I also think there's some question too about, they have some optimism about how that offense can look currently constructed with J.J. McCarthy, which is a little surprising to me, given, you know, the feelings toward him on his way out of Minnesota. But I think they've been there. We'll talk about that, don't you worry.

43:23Yeah, I think they're enthused at maybe what he can bring to the table and that they don't necessarily have to go out and spend on a running back to fix, you know, where they want to go with this team.

43:38Robert Mays: It's funny. I would go the other way on it in that typically a team like the Giants that is a surprise potential division winner in the way that they are right now, I would urge teams in that position typically to show some caution, right, where it's like, hey, you're ahead of schedule. There's no reason to accelerate this unnecessarily and think that you're closer than you are. for mostly like a deadline deal that's going to help you this year. But like you said, Jonathan Taylor's under contract for next year and then how much longer after that? Isn't it like two more years? So he's got the two-year extension.

44:11I believe it takes him through... 28. 27, 28. Yeah, two more. Yeah, so through 28.

44:16Robert Mays: So 28. You are, and they probably, they need another receiver. And so I think that's ultimately in the long term. Well, I mean, if you think Fields is like truly like a number two that you can roll with for a while with him and neighbors and likely, your offensive line is put together, right? You have a right tackle that is going to, you have a right guard that you can move to right tackle over the next couple of years. If a luminor ages out, but as currently constructed, it's a good unit. You have a quarterback already. You've got some premium pieces on defense. They just signed Greg Newsome to an extension.

44:44Robert Mays: We'll see what happens with Deontay banks. You've got rushers and you have a quarterback in theory, right? Like whoever that quarterback ends up being, whether it's Jackson dart or JJ McCarthy, even though I assume it will ultimately be Jackson dart. The thought of adding Jonathan Taylor, not because you think you can do something this year, but because you think if we put Jonathan Taylor in this offense over the next two years, what does that give us? And what sort of team are we with that construction? That's interesting to me. Like I typically the giants are a team where I'd be like, just slow your roll.

45:12Robert Mays: Like you don't need to do this right now, but the Taylor trade specifically, because I think of what it does to the rest of the offense collectively and the pieces that they already have. I'd be interested in that. Like depending on the price, I would be interested in that because of that thought process for the giants. I think they have to have an accurate assessment of what the window actually is. You don't want to be the Colts in 2025, right? Going and getting soft. That's a good point. And saying, if Dart isn't the guy, we have seen what? Like a game and a half of him in this offense. I think that's totally fair.

45:42And he's hurt. I mean, you know, that's certainly a significant, real longstanding concern is whether or not he's going to be healthy. And if Dart, if this is what he is, he's not your quarterback long term. And that certainly affects the window. And I don't know that J.J. McCarthy is going to be. I mean, I don't know what's going to happen with him. We'll see. But, yeah, you just don't want to be the Colts who clearly misassessed. Now, you don't know the Daniel Jones injury is going to happen, but it was more fragile there than we wanted to believe at the time.

46:13Robert Mays: You know what Daniel Jones's career up to that point had looked like. You know that. Certainly not like the first half of. Right. It was he was playing the way he was playing. It was an outlier. Right. And that should have been the conversation about like, yeah, you're in your window, but this feels like he's playing some pretty rich football right now. And that's not what he's been, you know, historically. So I would just say for the Giants to make that kind of an acquisition and spend what it's going to cost, just know what your window is realistically. And I think that has to be the confidence you have in the quarterback position.

46:47and if Dart's just going to come back and, you know, stay healthy and actually have a developmental arc, which I don't know. I don't even know if the guy's got a developmental arc, Robert.

46:57Robert Mays: We haven't seen him enough. I think they were excited about him coming into the year. And even that first game against the Cowboys, I think there was a lot to like. And I'll be honest with you, I've enjoyed the Giants this year and enjoyed watching the Giants this year so much more than I thought I was going to. I think that, you know, we all, again, it's the same game we're playing all over again. Matt Nagy was a failed head coach for the Chicago Bears, right? And then he was in Kansas City as the offensive coordinator. Is that offense stagnated? And so is he responsible for the stagnation of that offense?

47:28Robert Mays: And then it's like, oh, we have no idea how much Andy Reid has to sum on the skill for what the construction of the Chiefs offense looked like. Is it Andy? Is it Matt Nagy's fault? And so and then Greg Roman isn't part of that. Brian Callahan is a part of that. And I think it's really interesting. And it depends on how you're going to frame what happened with Nagy and KC. he kind of got like softly fired right like his contract was not renewed and so if you look at the giants right now the head coach the offensive coordinator the run game coordinator the passing game coordinator the defensive coordinator and their current starting quarterback are all people who were fired last year yeah that's actually really interesting i never thought has that ever happened well and and has that ever happened and you've had this kind of unexpected success through you know the first seven what first eight weeks of the season and you've started three different quarterbacks in the process like yeah it's it's it's pretty wild to watch and it's in a division where like you know i i said it to you or at least i wrote it in the notes earlier today like when you call around it's kind of confusing and the nfc east coming up in the trade deadline because there are teams that are like are we out of it like are we sure we're out of it because we might not be out of it like you know the washington commanders are like i don't know man like are we boxers or sellers like we're not we don't we might be able to claw back and win this division we're not 100 sure the cowboys same situation like they're they're like we're probably not out of it like it feels a little soft in the division so um the nfc is going to be exciting and and the john i and by the way i'm not going to lie i i have enjoyed watching jd mccarthy play quarterback there which i just think the offense is cool i think the offense is well put together i think they know what they want to be i think there are a lot of elements to it that are really nice and so that i think that's kind of why i have i'm harboring optimism for what dart can be like in that offense just because i think that what they've put together is is really well done and kind of going back to the original point i think there were there's a lot of skepticism about it because it was a lot of guys that had failed in their previous jobs now coming in as a group in this one and I think what they've been able to assemble with all of those guys that have a lot of I mean even like Tim Kelly was an offensive coordinator at one point like there's a lot of guys who have been in high profile positions in the NFL on that same offensive staff and I think that that can be a problem in some ways that's gonna be a too many cooks in the kitchen sort of situation but I think that speaks to John Harbaugh's abilities as a head coach like that those are the situations where that the head coach and his authority in those moments becomes really really important and i think john harbaugh has shown an ability to be a very very effective head coach in the nfl he's a good ceo he really yes he's a good ceo and and you know it's ex-special teams guy right i mean like those guys have to kind of know everything about the team you know um now we're going back a long time in his career it's not like that's the resume that I want to lean on.

50:27But I will ask you this. I'm curious about this. What if McCarthy plays the season out and actually kind of showcases why Minnesota initially had confidence in him? He needed a fresh start, right? Needed just kind of get away from that situation. There are other things in his personal life that are more dialed in or whatever. Let's just say he puts together a good season down the stretch. What do you do if you're the Giants? Like what What if he actually leads you to the playoffs in a way like he's part of the reason that drives you into the playoffs? What what happens then? Do you keep them because you're like, hey, darts injured.

51:04So we, you know, often injured. So we want to have that guy. But doesn't that kind of create a weird dynamic in the it absolutely does?

51:11Robert Mays: You have to at least consider it because you've never seen Jackson Dart succeed in these circumstances before. And if you see a guy that does it, what is different? I think there are moments where if you had a guy who you think had a higher ceiling, right? And Dart is a better runner than Jim McCarthy. They're different styles of players, but stick with me. If you think, if you had a guy come in and he's a former fourth round pick that, yeah, he can run the offense. But we have questions about like what his high end traits look like. We have a guy on the bench that we drafted in the first round for a reason.

51:42Robert Mays: We think ultimately, even if there's some growing pains along the way, the end point in the ceiling for the offense is higher if we stick with the first round pick. J.J. McCarthy was a top 10 pick. J.J. McCarthy is talented. And so it's a different consideration here. So if you see him succeed, it almost becomes ironically sort of an inverse of the Viking situation where it's like, we've seen it like this. Let's just roll with this, even if we had a different plan. And so there's a chance that J.J. McCarthy, there's a chance that Jackson Dart becomes Minnesota J.J. McCarthy, where it's like, if the Vikings had gone with Sam Darnold, right?

52:18Robert Mays: It's like, it's, it's, it's kind of like the flip of that situation. And so I, they'll be left with it with the choice. If he ends up playing really well, I think it'll depend on how well he plays. Like, I think you have to be in a place where you're sitting there and you're Joe Shane and John Harbaugh looking at each other, being like, how can we walk away from this? Like we, we would be crazy to walk away from this for an unknown, even if we are excited about Jackson. But I think the bar for that is pretty high. And I think we are very far away from knowing whether 2026 JJ McCarthy cleared that bar, considering we've seen him play like five quarters.

52:52It's going to be fun though.

52:53Robert Mays: I'm here for it is. I'm looking forward to it. And again, I, I think that they've done a really, really good job there. And I'm excited to see what the rest of the season looks like on both sides of the ball for that team. All right, before we move on, let's take one more quick break. On its black Friday sale doesn't start until later this month, but our listeners get in early. If you're new to on it, Go to Onnit.com and use code TAFS for 30 % off your first order starting today. If you've never tried Onnit, start with AlphaBrain. It's their daily nootropic built to support focus, memory, and mental clarity on days when you need to be locked in.

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55:57Robert Mays: so you said this you said the receiver market is the one that you think is going to be heating up a little bit over the next week who are the names to watch with that and what are the potential teams or destinations associated with those players um well really i think it's a josh downs you know conversation right okay um you know i think like maybe maybe jerry judy uh in cleveland but i think cleveland's actually more buyers than sellers right now not like big buys but i do think Like they're, from the indication I've gotten, they're more buyers. But the situation with Downs, they've gotten multiple calls.

56:32I kind of get the feel that like the Chiefs are the ones that are really trying to pry him loose. They think that, you know, there's multiple things about his game. You know, he's not like a big speed guy. He's more precision route runner. That's how he gets himself open. I think they feel like the way he fits into the offense would certainly help them now that Rasheed Rice is back up again and healthy. So it complements the pieces that they have. But I mean, Downs is... Which I do agree with, by the way.

56:59Robert Mays: I was a little bit hesitant about that. Like, another small receiver on the Chiefs. Like, is that truly the guy they need? Do they need somebody that actually kind of approximates what Tycon Thornton was in the offense? But as I think more about it and I just watch the Chiefs, I'm like, yeah, they just need a professional receiver who can get open. Like, that is what they need. And that is exactly what Josh Downs is. And so the more I've thought about that one, even if I was a little lukewarm on it when I first thought of the marriage, that I'm like, all right, I'm into that. I actually think Josh Johnson, the Chiefs, makes that team a lot more fun.

57:27Yeah, and I think beyond the Chiefs, Pittsburgh is kicking tires on wide receivers right now. The 49ers are kicking tires on wide receivers. I think the Patriots are kind of lurking out there. But I would say the three teams I'm hearing most prominently when it comes to wide receivers, it's Chiefs, it's the Steelers, and it's the 49ers. And those are going to be the three that are they're jockeying for an addition into that room and downs. I think it's like whoever doesn't get downs, then they're going to have to turn their their attention elsewhere. But downs is sort of like the Jonathan Taylor of wide receivers right now where he's the one everyone's focused on.

58:07Robert Mays: What do you think about Brian Thomas Jr.? Like, do you think that's a situation where the Jags have an appetite to deal him? Like, what would the price be? I understand it from both sides. If you're the Jags and you think you can win the Super Bowl this year, do you want to be in the business of selling off guys? Because you're one Jacoby Myers high ankle sprain away from looking at that room and being like, oh, we're screwed. It's like Josh Cameron's fine. But that's a situation where I think, again, what is the price that's worth sacrificing the best version of the roster if we think we can win a championship, even if this guy has kind of fallen out of favor or fallen out of the rotation?

58:41Robert Mays: the only counter to that and I have no idea if this would be the case it doesn't sound like it based on conversations I've had is that it's like a culture problem right where it's like a negative influence on the current part and I just don't I don't have the sense that that's happening I don't know if you've seen any differently but I don't think it's gotten to that point and because it's not gotten to that point I could understand just being like you know what this price isn't worth it like again like yeah we get a two for Brian Thomas Jr we can win the Super Bowl right now with the roster that we currently have.

59:11If the record were inverted, it'd be a different conversation, right? Like if they're sitting there and they're going, we're going into the deadline and we're not, you know, a team that feels like we're going to make the playoffs or, you know, I mean, and I think they feel like they are entering into a Super Bowl window right now. It's exactly what you said. We, there's always potential for injury. Go look at his last touchdown catch, right? He exhibited fire, right? Like he threw the football there was a motion there it's not a marvin harrison jr situation in arizona right where marvin was like just it looked like a dead fish out there he wasn't running yeah he was he was not running routes hard he was not you know he clearly had been relegated to um a decoy on offense and they're just like go route go route go route let's clear out clear out clear out and he was like all right whatever this is what i'm doing now and and so you could see it that has not happened with brian thomas jr and then there's also the question of like with travis with travis hunter are you gonna you know tinker with him on offense down the stretch or are you just gonna go hey let's try to drive as much of his time into defense and just leave it there and really not even ever entertain again him being um a part of the offense that we get in some packages for him

1:00:26Robert Mays: so i like the mix now i i think the mix we have now is right like i think that having the only consideration and I think this is just part of bi-week stuff is when he's out there they throw him the ball essentially every time he's on the field and so now it's like and I think this week specifically they might have used him as a decoy on one of those big basial toot and plays like that's the only wrinkle to the Travis Hunter plan I would have in mind if I were the Jags is that when we're using him on some of these packages we need to diversify some of the tendencies when he's on the field but overall like usage and how much of a part of the plan he is offensively this is working Like, I would just keep rolling with whatever you have right now and the way that you're approaching it outside of that one small consideration.

1:01:08You just can't let him be the tell. Like, the second he comes on the field. Exactly. Okay, here we go. This is going to him. And so my, but my thing is, it only takes one scrape, right? It only takes him taking one hit on offense, getting up, groggy, whatever. And then you're like, oh, okay, what are we doing here? Like, we can't screw with this. it's a lot easier to make that decision when brian thomas jr is still on your roster right you still have that depth and i think the return on brian thomas jr i think the top end of it is probably a

1:01:39Robert Mays: third okay again so like yeah what it's okay like i i get that like it's better to have it than not especially if he's not going to be a prominent part of your plan but at the same time if i'm james gladstone and i'm sitting there james gladstone he's been in parts of organizations that have won championships before. The amount of needles you need to thread, how many things need to fall into place for you to do this, how hard it is to do. These are situations that I just don't think you f*** with. I just don't think you do that. And so that would be where my mindset would be if I were him in this moment.

1:02:14And it's not a one-for-one player comparison. I don't want people to think that, okay? It's more of an anecdote in terms of how players can become useful at times that you need them. I Cooper Cup I had arguments last year about like and with another prominent like with another writer and I'm like he was not a good sign like this guy is not a good fit like I don't think he's a good piece in terms of the money that you paid him to be there and then you know the playoffs come and there are moments where he shows up and you're like okay like I get it like you don't you know if it could you just and the anecdote what I'm trying to say here is you don't know when a guy suddenly is going to step into some relevancy and play and all you need is a couple big plays in key moments and you're like all right that was worth it like we needed it that's exactly it

1:03:03Robert Mays: if he catches a long touchdown at some point it catches a long pass not having a long touchdown that man catches one 40 yard goal ball in the nfc in the afc championship game that third round pick is not worth that like it's just not worth it when you are this sort of team it's these chances are so fleeting. And so I think it puts you in a slightly difficult spot. I mean, if I'm the Jags, I'm calling about guys I can add. I'm seeing what it takes to go get Grover Stewart from the Colts. I'm not that that's Grover Stewart is an idea. I know it's an indivision thing, but now without Devon Hamilton, I'm more so in a spot of what do I need to add to make sure I can take this thing over the top?

1:03:38Robert Mays: Not who can I sell off just because right now he's not, I right now he is not worth to me what he might be to another team. That's what I would say. Like that gap in utility and value is not worth to me giving up safety and protection and backstops. If you think you want to win a championship this year, which I don't think they would be unreasonable and believing that they could. I want to talk to very, the last name I want to throw out. We talked about the chargers with, with Popper last week. I don't think we really have to dig into that. It's not surprising to me that they don't want to trade anybody.

1:04:12Robert Mays: Like they're, they're like circle in the wagons there. I assume. And so them being like, we're not going to send any sort of message that we're giving up here. It makes sense. I think it's misguided. I think it's like the thought it's the thought process of a scrambling organization, I guess, is what I would say. It's a thought process of an organization that's operating from a position of weakness, not a position of strength, like what the Chargers are doing right now. But I still understand why they're in this sort of headspace, given how this season has gone. Yeah, I mean, there's some disbelief.

1:04:42I think part of what's tied to this, too, is there's some disbelief over what's going on with Justin Herbert right now. And I think that causes some—it just freezes things up inside the team because you're like, wait a minute, this does not make sense. Like, the way that this guy is playing, the way that he looks, how he's carrying himself, you know, I think there's some things going on behind the scenes that he's frustrated with. I think he feels beaten down. And I think the decision makers, Joe Ortiz, you know, Jim Harbaugh, I think they're staring at this and going, this isn't reality, what we're seeing right now with him.

1:05:20So we can't start making moves. And I don't know if that's true or not, right? I don't know. I have no idea if he's just going to be Chuck Knobloch and all of a sudden not be a good athlete anymore. um he you know but i do think that seizes the gears of of you know personnel decisions because you're like we'll fix that and we'll be okay now it might be through a firing it might be through some offensive changes but all we got to do is really fix that guy and and it gets our organization right back where we were let's not make any drastic moves and and over correct the cleo mac

1:05:57Robert Mays: one is the only one where i'd be like well you're not doing that this year yeah you're not doing You're not doing that this year anyway. Like, why not take, like, a fourth round pick for Khalil Mack if the team is willing to throw it to you? All expiring deals, if you're not bringing them back, like, just deal them. Like, move guys. Like, it's not—I am—I think every—I always scratch my head where I see teams where I'm like, okay, like, it's—feasible, especially if you're winless, right, at this point, sell off the expiring deals. Like, that's—no, you're not fooling anybody there, and you're not suddenly going to—the RV's not running in the parking lot because you traded Khalil Mack.

1:06:31Mac and everybody's like, oh, we're just giving up now because we traded Khalil Mac. Like, let's get out of here. I don't want to play anymore. No, come on. Like, people know what it is. It's a business at the end of the day.

1:06:40Robert Mays: I want to run through some teams and just whatever their mindsets might be or teams that you think are of note. And the team I actually wanted to hit first, we alluded to a little bit earlier, and we were talking about Jonathan Taylor. I wanted to circle back to this. If I were the Vikings, I think a Jonathan Taylor trade is risky. And I think it's risky in part because you still don't know who your quarterback of the future is. shipping away any sort of draft capital when I think you should be in a position where you need maximum maneuverability over the next year or two because you ultimately do need to find a quarterback.

1:07:12Robert Mays: If I were the Vikings, I think the move I would make to try to solve my season is that I would just call the Raiders and say, hey, what do you want for Kirk? And if the price isn't crazy, right? Like, what do you think the Raiders would want for Kirk Cousins right now?

1:07:33be more than you think right maybe maybe i i will just like when i went through there in camp and i talked to john spytek and i we were talking about mendoza and i'm like look man how how willing are you going to be to veer from the plan the the basically you know keep him in bubble wrap as long as possible he was like i don't know what's our record he's like are we in contention because if we're in contention and Kirk's playing reasonably well, we're sticking with him. He's going to be our guy. And he was adamant to the point where he's like, we're not going to deal him. If another team comes looking for him, we're sticking with putting our best foot forward and also letting Fernando.

1:08:15He just kept going back to Mahomes. He was like, go look at the Chiefs. He's like, you know, he didn't say. They were in it the whole year. He's like, so if we're in it the whole year, Fernando's going to be on the bench. if Kirk's playing well, that's what we're going to do. That's what our plan is. So I think it would be more than you think. I mean, they might want a second-round pickup for the guy, honestly. At that point, you're giving up the same thing you did for Jonathan Taylor,

1:08:39Robert Mays: and you're disrupting exactly what I told you you shouldn't be disrupting. But I think even if you trade for Jonathan Taylor right now, if you're the Vikings, I have enough skepticism about whether Kyle Amari can turn this around that I think you're probably deluding yourself into thinking that that's going to save your season. And if it doesn't save your season, in combination with the fact that it's going to make it harder for you to find a quarterback if you want to try to do it in next year's draft, that's a dicey set of circumstances to me. But I think it brings me to a conversation I want to just have about the Vikings in general.

1:09:11Like you wrote it back in September

1:09:12Robert Mays: about how the J.J. McCarthy kind of thing unraveled there. And when you look at that building, what do you think like the year-long outlook in that building looks and feels like? because there are some fascinating timeline differences with what's going on right now. Like, let's say you're Nolan Teasley, right? You've been in there for six months. Do you feel compelled to blow up a draft for Jonathan Taylor six months into the job in the same way that Kevin O 'Connell might because he feels drastically more urgency than you do based on how this is going and some of the conversations about him right now and how the quarterback position is going.

1:09:55Robert Mays: That tension between those two timelines in that building, I don't think it's spoken or anything, but we see when those things are a little bit misaligned the fact that that tension does exist. So I'm just really curious how the Vikings view themselves right now and how they'll view themselves over the next year or so as they figure out or decide what the best path forward is for them. Yeah, I talked to Teasley again when I went through their training camp, and one thing sticks out in my mind from the conversation is, we were just sort of talking conceptually about, okay, what are you about? What do you want the program to be about?

1:10:34And one of the things that he mentioned that is a very, very high priority for him is establishing a sustainable roster-building philosophy. And I don't think blowing up a draft for running back when realistically the quarterback is the problem right now. That's not sustainable roster building philosophy.

1:10:52Robert Mays: I totally agree. And I totally understand that that would be his thought process. And that's not surprising at all to hear that you think. So to your point, right? Like, wouldn't you, if that did occur, who are you putting that on? Kevin O 'Connell. Like, that's the first guy I would turn toward. I'd say this is a Kevin thing. Like this is Kevin going, this is built to win now in a lot of respects. You know, I'm dealing with Flo every day. Who's like having a Greg Williams or a Jim Schwartz is like a defense. You know, there's some management that's got to go on there from a personality standpoint.

1:11:30So, you know, he's doing the best he can, but he's like, yeah, we got to win with the pieces now. So, yeah, it's interesting. It will speak to, as you said, sort of the alignment, you know, for a head coach that probably feels a little bit of pressure. But a GM was also like, look, we have to set how we want this culture to operate from a personnel standpoint. And it's not going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul, especially if Paul's not going to come through for us at the end of the day. It's, it's, uh, it'll, I don't want to say like the Taylor situation or any acquisitions are a microcosm of what's going on in the organization, but I think it does speak to who is still pushing things forward there.

1:12:12And you would tend to believe that's O 'Connell, right? Because there's a reason why Kwesi's not there, Kwesi Doflamensa, and there's a reason why Kevin is. And I think it showed a little of the power shift has gone to Kevin's side, but how much is probably going to be told through this trade demo? Yeah.

1:12:30Robert Mays: And how much should, right? Like how much at this point, like should Kevin O 'Connell be able to put his thumb on the scale and say, if I want Jonathan Taylor right now, we should do this as an organization. Like, I think that's at least worth a conversation if you're trying to build a sustainable winner. And so how they handle this will be so interesting to me because I think I'm with you where I don't know if a running back solves this and if a running back doesn't solve it. And now you're sitting there looking at your 2027 draft capital wondering, all right, now what do we do with this? I think that's a dangerous potential place to land.

1:13:00Robert Mays: So we're a week away here. Other teams you think we should be keeping an eye on just because they're in an interesting spot or you think that their thought, their thinking right now either makes them a little bit more aggressive or more passive than we might think from the outside. Like, who are the teams at front of mind for you as you're making calls right now? I would look at the entire NFC South because every team in the NFC South right now is grappling with, like we we could win this anybody could win this division so what what do we do here like what do we add like are we i think every single one of those teams in the nfc south is is approaching it from a we can add perspective we can win this division perspective how much does it warp our future beyond um the trade deadline i think the eagles are kind of interesting you know starting Joe Milton is going to be a bit of an amusement park ride.

1:13:54So we'll see what that looks like for the Eagles. But I do know this. There's like teams that have reached out to the Eagles basically saying, hey, we got some offensive line here. Are you interested in some offensive? So there's this communication going on from the Eagles end of it that leads me to believe they may not just be packing it in. Right. They may. And I think even the switch, honestly, to Joe Milton is to like stimulate something like, hey, we're not dead yet. OK, the Giants, things are looking great for them. But, you know, how real is that? And maybe we can still fix some some things here rather than the assumption that there's going to be sellers.

1:14:33And then I think the Lions, that's the other one. I do think they are trying to find another edge presence to try and balance things out in their defense. And I think they also know, looking at the Bears right now, that if we're not going to be able to, you know, crank up pressure, we're going to have a lot of difficulty beating that Bears team or really a number of teams in the NFC. So I think the Lions are that sort of team that now feels like they may still have a window, like a Super Bowl contention window here, but they know to get through who they have to get through in the NFC. It's going to be hard just to sit on their hands.

1:15:09Robert Mays: I don't disagree with that. And I think if I were the Lions, I'd probably be thinking about it the same way. who do you think could be out there? And what do you think would be a realistic edge presence that you could get if you were the Lions? Khalil Mack. I do. I think Khalil Mack's probably the guy that I look at. I don't support that. You don't support that? Really? Well, I support that for the Lions. I think it's a good move for the Lions. But the idea of Khalil Mack in a Lions uniform as the Bears are trying to win the NFC North is unacceptable to me. I'm not sure I could live with that.

1:15:40I mean, listen, if the Bears want to, you know, stack assets on assets like they're they're clearly signaling that they think hey this is it we're in our window right now like we can we can do this right now um go get Cleo Mack then fine whatever it doesn't matter you can duplicate pass rush rotations are awesome to have and and the Bears could certainly have that but I think the Lions are I mean they know you know whether it's Josh Sweat I mean there's there's certain certainly players out there from an edge perspective that that um can be added and and but i think mac is the one that i just would be shocked if he's still on i know and this is so mind-boggling to me he he has kind of indicated like look i don't want to be traded and harb has indicated like i don't we don't want to trade him it's just it's a i think you're wasting an asset there and and even if you're khalil mac you're wasting an opportunity to go and and have a an impact on a on a super bowl caliber team yeah it's interesting again if

1:16:41Robert Mays: If he doesn't want to be, it's an entirely different conversation. If they think, again, the fifth-round pick that we would get back from, our fourth-round pick, isn't worth pissing off a veteran that doesn't want to go anywhere, like, that's an element to it that I think is probably worth considering. But I'd be really interested to see how that shakes out. Though, as you mentioned Josh Sweat, Josh Sweat's an interesting name. And then what do you think about Buda Baker? Like, if you were another team, if you needed safety help, if you were the Bills, like, would you call about Buda Baker just to kick the tires and see where the Cardinals are on that.

1:17:11Yeah. I mean, if I'm the Bills, if I'm the Jaguars, I'm probably giving a call too. And there are a couple of teams that I think could use him. Honestly, if you're Philly and you really think you got an opportunity, I mean, an experienced versatile safety in Vic Fangio's hands, not the worst thing in the world, right? And now that he's a leader as well. So, yeah, I mean, I think Buffalo to me is probably out of that group. You get some physicality. You get veteran leadership. I mean, there's just – he brings exactly what I think they want right now. And he's still young enough. I mean, he's like 30, right?

1:17:51Isn't he like 30? It feels like he's been in the league forever in my mind. I mean, it feels like he's been in the league for 15 years.

1:17:56Robert Mays: That's what I thought too. Yeah, he's 30. He turns 31 in January. And he's got at least one more year left on the field, I believe. And so it's not just a rental. and not only that I think he's the kind of player who if you acquire him the relationship works out well he has the what he brings to the table I think physically and mentally is going to extend him a little bit so you could probably have him is he like is he like a guy who makes it to like 34 and is still a workable piece you know in your defense I think he could be absolutely but yeah I was shocked when I saw he was 30 because I swear I'm like you I'm like god it feels like This dude's been in the lead forever.

1:18:37Robert Mays: The one thing with the Bills, and this is, for the most part, I said this last week when I was talking to Popper, for the most part, when it comes to, like, contracts now in the NFL, that used to be the first thing you'd do. Where if a team was going to trade for a player, it'd be like, well, can they fit them under the cap? You know? Well, now it's like, well, if you want to, you can. The Bills are an exception to that. Like, they've kicked the can enough with some of these contracts where I think their financial flexibility is maybe a little bit less than some other teams. I mean, Buda Baker's base salary next year is$16 million.

1:19:11Robert Mays: And so taking that on without having planned to take it on if you're the Bills is probably going to be a little bit more onerous than it's going to be for some other teams, in part because the biggest contracts on your team next year, Josh is at a$14 million base salary. And so I'm not sure what you can do to necessarily get that cap number down in the short term. And the other deal that you might be compelled to touch is a Deion Dawkins deal. He's 33. So whether you want to start moving that money around. So like the Bills specifically are a team where there's less money in the banana stand, I think, than there might be for some of these other teams because it's harder to wave a magic wand out of thin air and create$20 million in cap space the way a lot of other teams can.

1:19:55Have they, and I apologize for not having the deal up in front of me, um have they how much have they accessed alan's money through void years like i'm i'm always curious like have you already um you know i mean that's the that's the go-to right i mean anytime you need money you just figure out who can you who can you rework and tack on some void years and that gives you an ability and it's it seems like the quarterbacks are the ones that are always well

1:20:21Robert Mays: so he has a 14 million dollar base salary next year so even if they were to fully convert that they would only be picking up what is that i mean it's over a four-year thing i mean you'd be getting like five million dollars in cap space if you did that so that's what i mean like i just i don't think that there's a ton they can do i'm not a cap expert but just looking at it very quickly and just knowing how many things they've had to do over the years so it's like oh we got to extend dawson knox to get six million dollars in space like they really had to find some quarters in the couch cushions over the last few years because of how many guys they've paid so i just wonder for them if the money for the Buda Baker stuff is actually a barrier to it happening in a way that it's not always for NFL teams right now.

1:21:02I'm shocked that his base is 14. I did not. I mean, that's just, that's wild to me. I didn't know his base was 14 next year. That's a little surprising to me.

1:21:10Robert Mays: There's an option bonus in there too. Again, you need a goddamn NBA to understand any of these contracts at this point, which I'll tell you right now, I don't have. Not a math guy. so i'm maybe not i call the cap guys that's that's probably that's probably the move i need more cap guys in my rolodex is the answer charles robinson sincerely appreciate the time sir always great to check out to catch up with you please go check out nfl blue book i am like a day one subscriber the rest of you guys should absolutely be checking out the work that charles is doing great to chat with you sir and we will do it again very soon absolutely i look forward to it Thanks for having me, man.

1:21:46Robert Mays: All right, guys, that's all we got. Thank you to Charles for his time. We will be back tomorrow with the week nine. It's week nine. My God. The week nine preview with me, Derek, and Dave. Be sure to check that out for now. That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. Talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

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