🏃‍♀️ “Doing Things” — Ty Haney, Founder of Outdoor Voices

0:01Yetis, stretch out those glutes and double knot your shoelaces. Because today we're doing things on the pod with a legend of athleisure. Ty Haney, she turned recreation into a revolution by founding Outdoor Voices in 2013. At the age of 23, she turned community into the startup buzzword of the decade. Her Outdoor Voices logo, it didn't just end up on yoga mats, did it Jack? It's on brunch tables. It's inside office buildings. It's in every hiking trail where dogs are allowed. She built a brand that made Nike look nerdy and Lulu look lame. Peak Outdoor Voices 2018. Under Ty's leadership, O.V. hit a$100 million valuation fast and furious.

0:42Eventually, O.V.'s investors and takedown-e-hit pieces forced her to resign. But we're talking with Ty today because she has returned to her brand and the new Outdoor Voices. We'll sort through some dirty laundry with her and discuss the new laundry O.V. has for sale. And today, she's actually running three different companies in three different industries at the same time. Energy, drink, software, and fashion. Ty's LinkedIn is longer than a marathon. Ty doesn't do sweat equity. She does endorphin equity. So, Basties, please welcome the Anna Wintour of athleisure, the queen of cool downs, the duchess of doing things.

1:19Ty Haney is the founder of Outdoor Voices. And today's interview with Ty is the best one yet. Ty, welcome to the pod. Welcome to T-Boy.

1:29Ty Haney: Wow. What an intro. Razzle dazzle. I'm into it. That's our favorite term, by the way. Yeah, we actually do love that term. That is perfect. So Ty, 10 years ago, we actually had a business deal with Outdoor Voices, although you probably weren't aware of it. Yeah, yeah, Jack. We should let Ty know, full disclosure, we did a business deal that your company didn't know about with your company. Okay. So Ty, we were looking for our first advertisers, and getting your first one is the hardest one. This is back when we were just a newsletter. We hadn't launched the pod yet. This is the pre-pod era. Outdoor Voices was so cool.

2:02We just thought it would be unbelievable if we got your logo into our newsletter. So we pretty much let your brand advertise for free. We just asked for a couple of gift cards in return. We kind of got the brand equity of OV without signing a deal with OV and everyone loved it. So it worked out great.

2:18Ty Haney: That's awesome. I love it. Pure companies were like, OV? We should be talking to you about advertising in your newsletter. I love that. Also, Ty, you know, to kind of kick things off, we should apologize because as we were researching you ahead of the podcast, we have mentioned athleisure a few times, but we noticed you don't actually love the word athleisure, right? Correct. I was going to say something. What do you prefer? In the past, it's been activewear, but like the ownable term and the way that I speak about what we do is recreation and that being the North Star and umbrella for us. Like it's such a beautiful, ownable, like unique and fun place to play.

2:55Ty Haney: Athleisure to me, I feel like I was sensitive to it because it often felt like it wasn't really rooted in activity, but rather the reverse of that, like the rest days. Like it felt too chill. And really kind of my vision for Outdoor Voices, which comes through today with recreation, is all about how do we energize and inspire for like the active moments, like actually in the activity. So yeah, I had a publicly known aversion to the term. I could care less now. It's not that deep, but you're right. There's documentation around my aversion to it. Nick has a publicly known aversion to jeans. Yeah, so I feel you on this.

3:35I know what that's like. Recreation reminds me of recess though, which also has been kind of, it's part of the story, right?

3:42Ty Haney: I mean, yeah, to a degree for sure. I think I grew up in Boulder, Colorado. I happen to live there part-time now. Have you guys been to Boulder, Colorado? I have not. Not yet. Oh my God. It's like the recreation heaven. And so like just the way I grew up and that as a city, like it's, that term is just branded on all of us. Like you're hiking, you're biking, you're kayaking. Like your way of getting around is just through movement on your bike with your dog, et cetera. So I was born into this recreation universe and feel very much this duty to kind of like inspire people and kind of show the way of recreation.

4:17Well, Ty, let's start there before we jump into the juiciness of O.V. and outdoor voices. But, you know, what was it about that childhood? Was there one moment when you realized you were going to become an entrepreneur? One detail that made you realize you would one day start a company?

4:30Ty Haney: I don't think it's a choice for sure. I mean, I happen to have parents and my mom's twin and so aunt and uncles that all have been entrepreneurs. And I think in Boulder, we got the benefit of a lot of people who were my friend's parents who had started companies like Kinko's and the Ironman. And so it's a tiny little place geographically with a lot of potency on the entrepreneurial side. And so we just grew up with people who had built businesses and started things from zero. And so I guess I just learned, you know, from a very young age that that was a possibility. Kind of a pioneer attitude.

5:06You've mentioned that you had no idea what you wanted to do at college as you were headed to Parsons School of Design in New York City. I felt similar when I went to college. We didn't know podcasting was an option, did we, Jack? How did you get from zero to one in terms of your first piece of Outdoor Voices apparel? And what was your first sale like?

5:26Ty Haney: Yeah, I kind of throughout high school was interested in and like involved in a lot of things. Like from a sports perspective, art perspective, whatever. Like I remember my science teacher in maybe sixth or seventh grade being like, this is a Renaissance kid. I had this insane curiosity to try a lot of things and learn what I liked and didn't. And so when it came time to choose a school to go to, I was conflicted. I could see the sports path or I rode horses very competitively, that path. And so it ultimately led to I just need time off. I had visited a friend in Boston during the summer and was like, beautiful place.

6:05Ty Haney: I want to go there. And so I took a year off and worked in the Bordecafe in Harvard Square, like slinging margaritas. And it was like such a formative and awesome time, but like very much didn't make total sense based on how like driven and into shit I had been. But that was an illuminating time period because I like ultimately didn't feel attracted to the nor 'easters of Boston, really felt kind of attracted to this energy that I had heard of, like of New York City. And so ultimately just trusted my instinct and got there. I would say like my super strength is creativity, but I also have kind of the left and right brain.

6:43Ty Haney: And so going to art school felt interesting, mostly because of the location and because people were doing shit there. But then what I found to be like most beneficial was ultimately learning how to visualize my ideas. And so the first year of that program was all about at the time like Adobe Suites. And when you had something in your mind, like learning the tools to like make it come to life on paper to then go socialize and communicate. And so fast forward, like I definitely never thought of myself in terms of building an apparel brand. My parents had done it in the past. They ran a successful company for 30 years in kind of the resort wear world.

7:21Ty Haney: And inventory was always a bitch and just like it looked hard. And so I never like even even right before kind of starting to think about outdoor voices, like I wasn't at all interested in apparel, more so kind of other types of businesses. That said, having grown up very active, going to art school in New York City, I found that I was much less active. I didn't have team and practices and coaches to keep me active. And so inspiration hit West State Highway, inspiration hit. And I was like looking down, going for a casual jog, still in like a very intense looking Nike outfit and felt just like personally a lot of dissonance.

7:58Ty Haney: And so I became interested in, for myself, creating an active kind of outfit that more fit with my style and taste at the time, but had the same kind of credibility from a sweat in motion and good for the active use case standpoint. So Westside Highway inspiration. Let's talk about that first iconic product. Because also, Ty, you were the first. We've interviewed a bunch of MBAs on this podcast. And we are both guys who went to business school. You're the first artist-turned-executive we've spoken to. And that first product you created as an art student that became your business was this idea of a, not athleisure, recreational uniform.

8:38Right, Jack? You're picturing the one I'm thinking of. I'm picturing the one. It's still for sale today. I just checked the website. The two-tone leggings.

8:45Ty Haney: Yeah. That is the style that changed athleisure. How did you come up with that? Great question. I think, like, from a brand perspective, the Nikes of the world in which I have a lot of, obviously a ton of respect and homage for, like I wore it every day as a young athlete, like there's a specific look and feel. Like at the time it was like black and neon and shiny and intense and like, um, mesh kind of, and mapping, like where you're meant to have muscles and stuff. And I wanted to go like all the way opposite. I'm picturing like my little kid's Spider-Man Halloween costume with a fake six pack.

9:20Ty Haney: To be hyperbolic, yeah. I kind of intentionally put that in my mind as an extreme aesthetic that I wanted to do the reverse of. And I'd say I've always been kind of aesthetically inclined and had good taste. And so I was looking at what I was wearing at the time, like brands that just had a very different look and feel, and wanted my active wear to match that. I also loved this idea of like making it very simple, this uniform for doing things. And so it was quite simply like a compression top, this two-tone legging that was like iconic in its own right and like very much not the neon and black.

9:57Ty Haney: And then building the uniform from there. And so the cloud knit in just a very simple hoodie and like sweat bottom, like the sweat set. And it was four pieces. That was all you needed, nothing more, nothing less. And it had its own look and feel. Well, you did just mention the$100 billion beast in the room, Nike. So you launched a company to take on Nike. What else is going through your mind when you're doing that? Like their tagline, of course, is just do it. Yours is doing things. Were you like intentionally focused on taking down Nike? You just set up your first product as the antithesis of Nike, basically.

10:34Ty Haney: I think from an aesthetic standpoint, like that was that that's such like a culture and a thing that it was intentional to like go to the other extreme. That said, really, really what I was up against was like what I personally was feeling living in New York and going to art school and people, you know, smoking cigs everywhere, whatever, was like, I don't have inspiration to move. And it's no longer about crossing the finish line first, but rather what's going to pull me out of the dorm to go on a jog. And that kind of inspiration to me at the time looked different than how activewear brands at the time were advertising to me.

11:14So what was it like putting on those prototypes of Outdoor Voices, your first ever product and going for a run?

11:19Ty Haney: Creating a pair of leggings is certainly not rocket science, but I remember the first version coming back and certainly you couldn't wear it on your body. So there was a lot of trial and error just like in my dorm room. I had a bunk bed and like had bolts of fabric that I would take up to Midtown. The garment district. Yeah. Yeah. I spent a lot of time there and would just like create it until I figured it out. And so like I did not study fashion at Parsons. So like pattern making all of that was something that like just by going and exposing myself to like started to figure out how to put pieces together.

11:53Ty Haney: Okay. First of all, Jack, extra point credits on showing off to a New Yorker over here that you knew where the garment district was. I appreciate it. That was a little signal to me, a little dog. I appreciate it. But second time, I just want to fall off one more time on this Nike question because typically when we see brands succeed, it's often to be aspirational. Nike's aspiration is performance. Aloe yoga exists now with aspiration of wealth. Lululemon has aspiration of ultimate luxury quality. By building Outdoor Voices, were you not aiming for aspiration? I think it's, like, recreation to me is, like, the most aspirational.

12:32Ty Haney: You have free time to spend outside and try, like, hobbies. So I don't know that I necessarily, like, intentionally thought of it that way, but I really lean into, like, the inspiration. I think, like, over time, I quite liked thinking about us against the Nikes, though I wouldn't say like they were directly on my mind as like who we're up against. Again, like it was really just around like what attracted to me, inspired me. And then like the mission and purpose of Outdoor Voices, I think ultimately like fast forward to now is why I rejoined because I find it to have such an important role as we think about like a lot of the negativity in the world, both from a mental and physical standpoint today.

13:18You know, I want to quickly ask about the garment district one more time. Now you're just showing off, Jack. You went to some textile building. Did they just let you in? How did you get in there? Yeah, good point.

13:28Ty Haney: No, definitely. I mean, I had spent a lot of time researching up and down and figuring out who would take my call. I did use my.edu address to ultimately get a response, both on the investor side and at the pattern-making manufacturing facilities. Like positioning yourself as a bit of an underdog, like, hey. Just a student. Yeah, yeah. Kind of like, I'm in your naivete. Well, really what makes you take off in New York as the coolest athleisure brand and then nationwide is your super skill, community. It becomes your differentiator. Walking clubs, running clubs, dog clubs, everyone is trying to make community, including our podcast.

14:09It's all about community. It is the word of the last decade. No brand did it better than Actual Voices. True. So we got to ask you, what is the playbook for creating a community as a brand? And how do you do it today?

14:22Ty Haney: Yeah, of course. I thought a lot about this. Yeti's tie will tell you her secrets for scaling out their voices right after this break. Monarch. Happy wedding season to all those who celebrate. Wedding season. That means you just liquidated your 401k to pay for that bridesmaid dress. Flight, hotel, and a gift. Your presents. It was not the only present. Good timing though, because Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything, your accounts, your investments, your savings goals, and your spending. We use Monarch to keep all our personal finances accounted for and in one place. We're excited that listeners of this show can get your first year of Monarch Core for half off.

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16:40One more time, gusto.com slash tboy. So we got to ask you, what is the playbook for creating a community as a brand? And how do you do it today?

16:50Ty Haney: Yeah, of course. I thought a lot about this. It starts from the top. So articulating the clear mission, vision, purpose, reason for being. And so without our voices, it's get the world moving. And then how are we standing up rituals for activation, both IRL and then digitally? And so, as you mentioned, one of the formats for us was local activations, activities that got people moving that then would be amplified through social and essentially drive awareness for us. What kind of activities, Ty? I mean, it started with us literally as a team on Canal Street when we were probably a 15-person team.

17:25Ty Haney: And I think our first New York Times feature was the team coming back from playing lunchtime basketball at the Canal Street basketball court. So you would take your office to go and play pickup in the middle of the day, pickup basketball? One of our operating principles was it starts with us. If we're going to expect it from the consumer, let's start with it ourselves. And so that tenant felt very small and local and then got really big over time as local events like that were happening in concert with one another everywhere. were. But we'd lean into anything activity-wise that felt, you know, ownable within this recreation world.

18:05Ty Haney: So jogging, I think we hosted the first like dog walking event. I don't, I wouldn't say like ever in, you know, the history of the world, but, and so we definitely like with those types of activities, like leaned into things that weren't going to be like, you know, on ESPN that night in terms of activities. And then I'll kind of like complete the thought in terms of building community. The third thing is through these rituals, having a place for people who are obsessed with or potentially potential to become obsessed with the brand to convene and spark bonds with one another. And so in my experience, like when you have formats through through kind of various channels for super fans to like meet other super fans, that's when the flywheel really starts to happen.

18:47Ty Haney: They start telling their friends and it becomes a movement or a mission bigger than myself, bigger than the team, bigger than the brand. The fourth piece in this playbook is about reward. And so there's ways to do that kind of today, but really it's just recognition within the community that you're a super fan, that you have status, that you've been here longest, almost in a bragging right kind of proof of fan type way. So those four things are really how you build community. Jack, I don't want to put pressure on you, but I noticed you were taking notes while Ty was talking. Can you repeat the four-part playbook for us there?

19:20Sure. First, it starts from the top. Have a clear mission, which for Outdoor Voices was get the world moving. Second is have rituals for activation, locally, IRL, ideally. Third, let superfans meet other superfans because that's what creates the flywheel effect. And fourth is reward those superfans. I do have a question about step three. How does letting superfans meet other superfans, how does that cause them to get more vocal about supporting the brand? How does that build the community more?

19:50Ty Haney: One thing that we saw as a very specific example, the moment that we take someone from our ambassador group or our community and make them a host, let's say at UCLA of an event, they became an owner in a sense. And then they bring whatever, their 40 friends, and really feel kind of like authorship in how that event came to life. And they bring it to life in a unique way, like different than how us, the brand, directly would bring it to life. And so that empowerment as kind of a co-owner of the experience ultimately came through in how they connected with others. And then it made that connection and ultimately that first interaction with the brand for those 40 attendees all that more powerful.

20:31Ty Haney: I mean, referral at the end of the day, but like happening live and in a format that connects to our vision and mission. Okay, so you got to kind of let go as a brand a little bit and be like, okay, I'm going to like let our audience and fans run with this instead. That's where the magic happens. Yeah, exactly. Now, Ty, Jack and I, in preparation for this interview, because we want this to be the best interview yet. We listen to every interview you've done, full disclosure, going back a decade. Now, there is one product you have never talked about on other podcasts that Jack and I happen to think may be your most powerful product.

21:02Jack, do you want to say what that product is? The tote. Yeah. The doing things tote. Absolutely. You turned packaging into a walking billboard, and Nick and I have a few of them ourselves. Yeah. How did you come up with that brilliant marketing move of turning your tote bag into a billboard? Yeah, just to be clear to our audience of besties out there, the first branded tote that we can ever picture is the Outdoor Voices branded tote that your clothes would come in, and then it became your default tote bag led to the tote revolution. You walk out of the store with an NPR-style canvas tote bag, which obviously was free, and you kept it, and you may still have it.

21:37Yeah, could you tell us about where that idea came from, how it worked, the costs, the benefits of it?

21:41Ty Haney: It originated because we opened our first pop-up on Lafayette, like a few blocks up from our... Canal Street HQ. Canal Street HQ. Thank you. We worked with this amazing kind of like founding team graphic designer, Benjamin Critton. I remember when my first pinged him because I liked his work and he came to do branding at Outdoor Voices, including the tote bag. He responded like we, like this big studio, and we walk over to Brooklyn to visit him for the first time. And we was just him, but he was like a genius. And so he did all of our original branding, including technical apparel for recreation, which was on the tote.

22:20Ty Haney: But simply, we needed a tote for people to purchase product at Lafayette and walk away with. And for whatever reason, like that layout and just like the strength of, I guess, those words positioned on the tote became very much a thing. And you're right. Like it became walking billboards for us. and it probably cost us$2.50. So a really effective awareness play. And then obviously we've seen - Yeah, just everyone and their mother lean into that. $2.50 is not cheap. I mean, you must have been betting that this would become a walking billboard, right? I mean, I don't remember, but it felt manageable based on, yeah, like for sure as we saw it turn on, that almost as an acquisition figure felt totally doable.

23:06Yeah, it kind of becomes a status symbol, A. and B, unlike a billboard, Jack, I guess it never expires, right? Like you said, you still have a toad 10 years later.

23:14Ty Haney: Yeah. Well, that leads to a pivot in the business, Ty, which is you end up choosing to move the company and employees down to Austin, Texas before Austin was cool and before Jack and I went to our first bachelor party down in Austin. I went out two years prior to that bachelor party. What made you decide on that decision from downtown Manhattan to Austin, Texas? Yeah, one of, I guess, our other or my personal kind of operating values was Zig when they zag. And while we were a fashion company, I more so like saw us like a Nike or Lulu or Under Armour in terms of the potential, the potential for growth and just the path there.

23:56Ty Haney: And each of those had an environment and like a city outside of New York or L.A. that like they could make their own and became kind of one with the identity of the brand and ultimately like a platform for their growth. And so Austin certainly was becoming, you know, hotter and hotter on the radar than I happened to be dating a restaurateur in Austin who essentially like gave me, you know, an extensive tour and I got to learn a lot about the place. and I loved that Town Lake, like the running trail was so central to the city itself. And so in the Zig with When They Zag kind of strategy, we up and moved 40 people from New York to Austin, really to like make that a place that felt our own and would support our growth.

24:42Ty Haney: And in a lot of ways, it was pretty awesome. Are there any other examples of when you've zagged to a zig, zig to a zag that have benefited you guys as the brand North Star? I mean, we do it constantly. This is a tiny little moment, but I remember Reddit having a conniption one day when we simply merchandised an assortment of products by dog walking as a serious type of activity to search by. And people went nuts on Reddit because it wasn't a formal tennis or whatever. That's a tiny, tiny micro example, but we did it and we do it all the time. So Nike stock is down like 50 % from its all-time high.

25:25And one of the reasons is because of this running club phenomenon. Totally. And Nike missed out on the running club. And, you know, Hoka is kind of like the sneaker of the running club. And Hoka was an early collaborator with Outdoor Voices. In 2018, you guys launched a sneaker together. And Nick and I think that that moment is what put Hoka on the map as like the cool sneaker and the running club sneaker. Because Outdoor Voices was the epitome of cool. And you were the face of it. How did that feel at the time? And how did you anticipate what was happening with this cool sneaker?

26:02Ty Haney: It's back to Boulder. My aunt, my mom's twin auntie, we were hiking the Flatirons Trail in Boulder. And she was wearing these hokas with a four-inch heel. Not heel, whatever, platform. And I was like, those are ungodly ugly, but tell me more. and she was like, oh, but they're a dream to hike in, and growing up, my mom and aunt set the tone in terms of we'd hike every day, and so they knew good gear, and quite simply, she turned me on to Hoka. As I looked at Hoka, the brand, I was fascinated by the origin story, loved their older styles, but then in more present time, was not all that inspired by the aesthetic and was like, oh my God, we could do wonders there.

26:50Ty Haney: And our approach to partnership was really around finding experts, like recreational experts, let's call it a rafa, for instance, like a hoka, that then we'd infuse our aesthetic and kind of coolness into and introduce our audience to. And so that was the walk-up. They were a wonder to work with. It was super fun. We went wild with some of the colorways, but the one that originally launched was this dusty pink. And I guess the young now millennial woman, like was obsessed with that and then rainbow laces, et cetera. But I remember we went all the way with another color that was like bright yellow and red.

27:30Ty Haney: We called it like the McDonald's colorway. And Emrata like showed up on the streets of New York wearing that colorway, like looking very hot, dog walking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was probably like one of the most exciting moments to me was just like that full circle from the mountains of Boulder, like ungodly ugly to like on Emrata's shoe or foot dog walking. It's a little bit of a like subconscious zigging and zagging though. When you see something as a fashion designer, that's just ugly. And then you totally embrace it. Yeah, totally. Nick and I did a full 45 minute episode on Juicy Couture.

28:06And those founders saw J-Lo in her music video wearing their tracksuits. And I feel like that might've been like your Emrata moment.

28:14Ty Haney: Yeah, yeah, totally. You must have freaked out when you saw that she was wearing them. And dog walking, like couldn't paint it better. It was amazing, yeah. Couldn't have been more recreational. Now, Ty, we've been following your story, like we said, for a while. And we do want to get to learn more about the drama that happened five years ago. You know, the drama we actually covered in an episode of our podcast on this show, when you resigned from your own company. Not really by choice, though, but you were forced out of the company that you had started and built. We've heard you describe After Voices as your baby.

28:47And this all happened while you were on leave after having had your first actual baby. Can you tell us the narrative of what happened versus what actually happened?

28:57Ty Haney: I've had many years distance from this, thank God. And 90 % of that experience was amazing, 10 % brutal. But I think really what it comes down to is we really got the direct-to-consumer model wrong. And so I ended up in a situation with many other founders of brands where we were able to attract capital, like significant amounts of capital to accelerate this vision and the growth. And that's cool. But obviously the stakes and kind of goalposts get increasingly high. And if you start to miss those, shit goes wrong. Where at the end of the day, the number one thing I've learned in that experience and kind of beyond is ownership matters.

29:39Ty Haney: And so when you raise a lot of capital, you delete yourself and then no longer have control. And so when push came to shove, I had deluded myself to the extent that like I wasn't the one that was able to make final decisions on things. And it really became more like about consensus at the board. And we had very different views on the board in terms of how to grow the business at whatever that point in time, 2019 or something. And so ultimately, like I was a first time founder and CEO. I did not see how I could continue to exist running this company without decision-making control. I ended up leaving after an article came out kind of authored by one of the chairman of the board or the chairman of the board that I viewed as totally preventable.

30:31Ty Haney: But I remember that night seeing kind of this narrative and knowing how very much it didn't sit well with me. And I looked up how to resign. Had never left a company before. Thought maybe it had to be formal and there were legal terms. So I have this little, I hereby tender my resignation, doing things Thai. And then that was my first departure from the brand. Normally a CEO termination is made by the board behind closed doors. For you, though, it seemed like there was a campaign to bring down your reputation and force a resignation instead. Is that how it felt to you? because that's how it looked publicly to us.

31:12Ty Haney: Yeah, I think that was one individual's intent. Why would that be their intention? I think we just saw the world differently. We had grown up in different times, and I had really believed in this kind of community-first playbook with, for instance, neighborhood stores that were low-rent and you'd convene around through activity often. And then we had started to kind of open up more traditional, like big expensive retail stores, which just frankly had not been part of the model or really how I kind of, you know, viewed the right strategy for OV. So like it simply came down to like different views on how to proceed.

31:53Ty Haney: And ultimately, like I didn't have the controls based on the structure and kind of cap table to like push back on it. And it became an untenable situation. Ty, maybe you can't share this, maybe you can't, but just to give our audience a sense of what we mean by diluted ownership in a company. You founded the company, so you start out with 100%. It's your idea. What did your ownership stake go down to after raising venture capital money? Yeah, I think before I left, it was at 10%. I did not know having this being my first company, just how important control and ownership is when there isn't consensus at the board level.

32:34Ty Haney: so felt that firsthand and it was interesting because I there was like a massive kind of PR explosion around this moment and we're a private company so that that was hard to kind of reconcile but I like you said this was my baby so like the board asked me to come back a few weeks later and I did but it was very clear to me just based on all of the drama that I I would then be kind of like put in this box and like really not have the agency that I would require to like continue running business. So I left again. So you didn't have Zuckerberg's 51%. So the board could have terminated you. Do you think they did it the way they did it because you were so popular and so cool that terminating you would have been bad, a bad look or?

33:23Ty Haney: I don't know. I think we just as a group didn't have the right ingredients for the recipe. And that was a hard kind of situation to be in. I don't really blame anyone. It just was not the right kind of people sitting around the table to come to a solution that ultimately would benefit all of us. So I guess take a step from the emotional angle a bit and now look at the business as you started looking ahead in this moment of reflection you're describing. How do you feel about taking venture capital money now? And how do you feel about the direct-to-consumer business model now? Yeah, I think it didn't play out well for most businesses.

34:01Ty Haney: There certainly were a few winners. But I think particularly for physical product inventory businesses, taking on that much capital and then scaling at a growth rate that's just massive, there's just a lot that can happen. And I think a business like Outdoor Voices should be able to attract capital, but not maybe at that same pace. And ultimately winning for me kind of with this type of business is all about longevity and lasting. So we're definitely seeing that shift, particularly as customer acquisition costs have gotten so extreme on Instagram and Facebook. And like, obviously, it's really easy to start a business and really hard to be successful.

34:47Ty Haney: And so I think ultimately, we're, from a consumer brand and business standpoint, in an environment where brands are able to attract less dollars. And that's probably a good thing in terms of getting the fundamentals right to build brands that people really care about and last over a long period of time. So build the fundamentals before taking on that dilutive venture capital money. Yeah. And I just question like how much like for this type of business, how much of the venture capital money like is required. And I think it's probably just a question around like in what growth is expected. What does winning look like in a certain amount of time?

35:27Ty Haney: What is the time frame? Well, Ty, Jack and I kind of buried the lead because the exciting thing is that after everything we just said, you just came back. You're now back at Outdoor Voices as of three months ago, like an incredible full circle moment. Can you tell us who asked whom? Can you put us in the room when you got the phone call? And did you have any reservations to coming back? Ty will answer that question right after this break. Walmart business. Yetis, we cover business trends on our show and they move faster than you can spelled GPU. One minute it's vibe coding, the next it's agentic.

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37:40Ready to transform your customer support? Go to Decagon.ai slash T-B-O-Y to get a personalized demo and see what Decagon can do for your team. Check Decagon out at Decagon.ai slash T-Boy. That's Decagon.ai slash T-B-O-Y. Can you tell us who asked whom? Can you put us in the room when you got the phone call? And did you have any reservations to coming back?

38:02Ty Haney: Oh, yeah. I did a lot of work to, like, detach from that experience and kind of, you know, make it as much of an opportunity as possible and a master class in a lot of ways. I pretty quickly started a new company, Try Your Best. And so I became very focused on the next thing. Let's see, probably a year and a half ago now, I had received a call from one of my original After Voices investors, Keith Miller, who also had a lot of involvement in Supreme and just a really great brand guy. And he made the connect to this guy, Corey, who runs Consortium Partners. and consortium partners had bought Outdoor Voices, I guess now a year ago.

38:46Ty Haney: He came to me before that news was announced and one, wanted to let me know. And then two, essentially asked if I'd be interested in having a combo around reengaging. And at that point in time, it wasn't on my radar, not even something I really considered, but he did get me to have a second conversation. Okay. And what excited you about that opportunity? Uh, I, I don't think like I was excited at the time, just, um, open. I'm kind of, I am just, like I am, I tend to be wired that way. Um, so curious to learn more. Um, and then as we started to like have additional conversations, I really just kind of wanted to understand if I'd feel energized by the opportunity.

39:30Did they tell you it was a mistake letting you go? I mean, it wasn't their decision to let you go.

39:36Ty Haney: Well, I mean, I think pretty clear because in the five years I was gone, like the brand essentially became super dormant and almost died. So without like someone with a clear vision and kind of like fully owning the execution, like the brand that was, you know, hot, fully fell off. Well, you're part of this trend now because Whitney Wolf Hurd returned to Bumble, Boomerang CEO. Even at a macro level like Disney World, Disney, Bob Iger returns to Disney a couple years ago. And we've seen these Boomerang CEOs before. So the challenge is kind of like, what do you do differently? How do you strike that balance of what to change and what to keep the same?

40:16And what did you decide for Outdoor Voices?

40:18Ty Haney: I became most energized immediately just in reconnecting to, again, the purpose and mission. And in coming back, it's been quite cool. There's like, I didn't know if anyone would care. And the emotional connection to that, to the original vision and mission is very alive and well, which is exciting. I felt that personally. The right structure was required. So as I kind of got into the details of this partnership, ownership was something super crucial to me and just understanding with this new group what winning would look like. And then the way that this version of Outdoor Voices is funded is quite different.

40:58Ty Haney: And it's definitely more patient capital. And so those three things, I'd say, were key criteria for me to consider reengaging. What about on the fashion and trend side? So much has changed. When Jack and I first got out of college, millennials were, everyone wanted to address millennials. We were the cool thing. Now everyone's talking about Gen Z. And Jack and I did a story on Gen Alpha the other day. So stylistically, how does the business visually change? Because are you targeting the same older millennial customer or are you now targeting 20-year-olds who are Gen Z? Yeah, the approach has been definitely to reactivate our original core customer.

41:36The millennials?

41:37Ty Haney: While introducing, and probably more of the emphasis is on introducing this Gen Z kind of younger demo to the doing things philosophy. The approach like is very similar to the beginnings in that like starting with the foundation first and creating kind of core pieces as part of this uniform for recreation. What we've layered on top, and we did do this to a degree, but it's been extremely fun, is like getting very creative in these activity specific capsules or drops that live on top of the foundation. And so our first activity-specific collection has been around Equestrian. And, I mean, just in time, we've hit, I guess, the trend, like, you know, right on the money in that Vogue had their cover with Gigi and Kendall riding horses.

42:24Just like it's very apparent that there's nice tailwinds around Horse Girl.

42:29Ty Haney: I happen to ride very seriously and for fun and wanted to design like a riding pant for myself. But I guess the headline for me is in the past, I felt to be taken credibly kind of as like such a young company in the activewear space. Like we needed to stay quite narrow and like only use technical materials. And those being technical kind of like performance materials that were made for sweat. But what I see is such the opportunity now and we're like very much stepping into, I don't know necessarily if it's just a maturity thing or experience or sign of the times, but really fully owning this like entire outfitting experience underneath this recreation vision.

43:13Ty Haney: And so maybe a little more like expansive in the sense of what Ralph Lauren has done and like really, really built out this lifestyle. and we just introduced Hike, which for the first time has like outerwear and accessories and like just, I guess, more daring styles that feel complete. On that Ralph Lauren, are you going to go like full Ralph Lauren and like, you know, he's launched a coffee shop. He's launched the polo bar where he can get hamburgers. Would you go like full lifestyle, like hospitality? I'm hesitant to use the term lifestyle because of what it conjures up, but more so like from a technical apparel perspective, We've expanded where we feel comfortable playing, where it's not just like face layer or compression.

44:02Ty Haney: And that I think you're seeing come to life in the collections. And I think as we think about Gen Z, more of the creative kind of how do I take these pieces and make them uniquely my own is something that we're really leaning into. So through color and through the way that there's like a hand signature kind of embroidery of the OV logo, like it feels personal and like more unique than just like, I don't know, like highly commercial compression bra and legging. So that's kind of, I guess, a brain dump in terms of how I think about this. No, that's fair. I mean, that's how some people think about businesses.

44:44It's just like a lot going on in your head. So the collections, the capsules, the activity-specific collections, those are all different and daring. Is the uniform of the new OV the same as the uniform of the old OV?

45:01Ty Haney: Yeah, we brought the heroes back. So the two-tone leggings, the tech sweat. I even saw the men, rec shorts. Men, like your guys' category has not gotten evolved yet. No, we haven't gotten the attention yet. In spring, you get a lot of attention. We do? Yeah, we should talk about a podcasting capsule. Like have that be an activity. Yes, we could use some sweat wicking. But you mentioned how you've like all these business ideas going on in your head. Also understandable because you're running three companies at the same time right now. Okay, you are running Joggy. You're running the energy drink company.

45:38You're running Outdoor Voices, the athleisure company. You're also running a tech company that is focused on community that you described to us so well before. What are the patterns that you're seeing running in completely three different industries?

45:51Ty Haney: I see it as world building. So they all fit together to me. The tech company is my main thing. I am the CEO of the tech company, and we have raised a significant amount of capital. We have over 300 of the top consumer brands on the app engaging their fans. And so it's fun. I've said this before, but going from software W-E-A-R, as in closed, to software W-A-R-E has been quite an evolution. But that's my main thing. I spend time here in SF with the team every other week. And then Outdoor Voices, just given I spent so much time on the product and brand building side of it for many years deeply in the weeds, it's almost my creative outlet and cherry on top.

46:40Ty Haney: And so I find it very fun, and we've been able to reassemble a number of the core original team members. And so that just feels lucky, I guess. And slightly different in terms of it doesn't feel as pressured as it did in the past. You mentioned TYB, your tech company, the software WARE company, being your main focus right now. Now, can you tell us, because Jack and I are running one company, media business right now. That's a lot. What are kind of the tactics you have because you have to be so organized running three different companies? How do you pull that off on a day-to-day basis? Ah, enter Joggy.

47:22Ty Haney: Joggy Energy. Yeah, your other company. That's hilarious. Well, yeah, Joggy helps. We'll send you guys some. It's amazing organic energy. Let's see. But I guess my main superpower beyond being very creative is I'm extremely good at prioritizing. And so I always know of three things, what's the most important thing to do first? And what can be in those positions can come from different companies, the family, whatever. And then I have an insane sense of urgency. I remember early on one of my board members using this soundbite of compression of time equals value. but I've been a sprinter in the past and pace really matters.

48:03Ty Haney: And so across everything, one of the ways I operate is just fast. Well, Ty, the other big-time CEO we know who's running multiple companies at once is Elon Musk. And you know Elon Musk. You got to know him when you were building a company in Texas over the last decade. You also have received PR about having a friendship with Elon Musk because as we've seen from Tesla's car sales, his public persona has had an impact on his own business. Has that affected your business at all, being associated with Elon in either a positive or a negative way? I don't really comment on it. It's just interesting that people, this is not my first experience with clickbait and headlines, so I don't really have any comment on that.

48:50You've become the face of the company again, which is both an asset and a liability in some ways. it's an asset because now people want to buy your clothing again, obviously. Is there any hedging you're doing this time on associating yourself too closely to OV? Just in case you ever want to step away, like you don't want it to become a hollow company again, like it became when you left the first time?

49:14Ty Haney: It's a good question. I am really just leaning into kind of being myself. And so I show up in ways that feel organic and authentic. And really my mission is to create value for the owners of the company and then the fans and customers. So that's really purely where I'm focused. I do have a strong kind of belief in saying things directly and myself. And I've obviously felt the pain of other people spinning up a narrative, etc. So the more that I can say it directly and connect directly and have closeness with the customer at the end of the day, that's what I'm prioritizing in this second go. You know, Ty, as I was going for a run in my 10-year-old outdoor voices gear at this point, which I have bought more since, I should say, even though this has lasted for a long time.

50:08One thing Jack and I were speaking about was how the way we like to approach business news is we like to think of each of our episodes as a creative process. You know, we don't just want to report the news. Jack and I really try to do what we call pop is, pop culture meets business. And that's why we wrote you a little poem to kick off today's show. And so we were curious, like we get inspiration creatively from a bunch of places outside of news. Curious where you get inspiration from and like what drives you to come up with new ideas?

50:37Ty Haney: I very much like am a big believer in doing things. So I try a lot of things, including building companies, including having kids, including sports and activities. And I think for me, inspiration comes from what I call kinetic meditation, like moving and active participation in something ultimately just like is what I find most energizing. I think it's been quite cool, like, introducing Outdoor Voices, the concept and doing things, the philosophy to my five-year-old Sunny, because she and Champy, five and three, were not around when I was part of OV. And so in the first kind of video that we put out, like, it starts with them being like, and very kind of honestly asking what is Outdoor Voices.

51:29Ty Haney: And I thought that was quite cool just to think about everything I'm doing through the lens of the younger generation and my kids in particular and how I can be a teacher to them in the best kind of way to live. You know, I was so happy when Allbirds launched Smallbirds. Yeah, the little kid shoes. Is that on the pipeline for the fall? You said men are coming in the spring. We do have kids exercise dress coming as part of the stroller roller collection in March. Okay. And then pod leisure wear after that. I think that's spring 2027, Jack. Well, to zig from the zag, Jack, should we jump into our rapid fire questions?

52:07So Ty, five rapid fire questions to finish the show. Here we go, Jack. What do we got? What is the best brand that is not Outdoor Voices?

52:15Ty Haney: I love Acne. Acne Studios and Crocs, it's a tie. Okay, and second, Ty, what industry is begging for its Outdoor Voices moment? I mean, college campuses, universities. School? The gift shop. Yeah, school. Oh, yeah. I just ordered something from the gift shop. Yeah. The bookstores. What is your dream outdoor voices collab that hasn't happened already? Could be a celeb or could be a brand. Jane Fonda, though we've tried that before. I don't know if it's happening. Low books in the cards. Ty, what's the best snack you always have stocked in your house? I have Joggy Energy and then Fruit Riot. Have you guys tried Fruit Riot?

52:51I'm shocked I haven't tried Fruit Riot. That's right up your alley, Nick. I like the sound of that, Jack. Okay. What's the best restaurant in Texas? And the best restaurant in Colorado?

53:00Ty Haney: Jack's Fish House in Boulder. And then there's like a very organic kind of hippy-dippy cafe in Austin. Well, there may be a few more of them now since you left. And then finally, Ty, if you were a stock, what would be your three or four letter stock ticker? TYY. TYY? Why TYY? TYY or I guess it should be TYB. So we'll own TYB. Try your best. And finally, at the end of every show, Ty, Jack, and I like to whip up the takeaways on the story we just covered. Jack, we're going to let you whip up this takeaway. So Ty, what is the takeaway on Ty Haney and Natural Voices? Trust the timing of your life.

53:38Ty Haney: We're just in time. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Congratulations on coming back to OV. It's amazing that you run three companies. Congratulations on doing it all with two kids, a boy and a girl, three and five. This is all incredible. So cool to speak with you. And by the way, Ty, thank you for accidentally helping sponsor our first newsletter product a decade ago. We really appreciated that. Let's do it again. Awesome. I love it.

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