DOOH You Like Women's Sports?

0:08Welcome to The Big Story, a roundtable featuring members of the AdExchange Editor editorial team. Every week, we bring you an in-depth discussion of key developments in digital marketing and media.

0:21Hello and welcome to this week's episode of The Big Story. I am Ad Exchanger Senior Editor Alyssa Boyle, filling in for our fearless leader and executive editor Sarah Sluice. So right now we're in the dog days of summer, upfront negotiations are mostly wrapped, and roughly 37 % of ad tech decision makers are currently on vacation. I made that last number up to paint a picture, but you get the idea. We hope you're enjoying your summer so far, and thank you for tuning in. Today's Big Story episode is going to cover the recent trends in live sports advertising, which is the streaming industry's golden child at the moment, and digital out of home, which may be becoming more important in media buyers' marketing mix in the performance TV era as brands reconsider the importance of building reach and awareness.

1:03So, oh, I'm sorry. You thought we were going to say AI, didn't you? Don't worry. AI will come up eventually. it's embedded in everything that we do and experience in the world whether we like it or not so we will touch on that as well so let's dive in with me today is senior editor james hersher hey uh associate editor victoria mcnally what's up and associate editor joanna gerber hey everyone cool all right so victoria let's talk about sports so you just wrote about an intelligence platform called the women's sports index meant to help brands capitalize on trends of women's sports. But you're the expert.

1:38You talk to the company. Tell us more about what that's about. Cool. Yeah. Thanks, Alyssa. I should also plug that particular piece showed up first in our brand new streamlined newsletter, which is taking the place of our CTV Roundup and is two times a week instead of one. So you get twice as much CTV goodness from you, Alyssa. So check that out. Anyway, the Women's Sports Index, it's a joint venture between Mondo Metrics, which is a data analytics platform and Deep Blue, which is a sports agency that focuses on women's sports. And the way it was described to me, mostly by Nick Cicero, who runs Mondo Metrics, is it provides real-time analysis of social media data from women's sports leagues, teams, athletes, and across both text and video.

2:22Like it can sort of analyze what people are talking about on TikTok, which makes it a bit more robust than like the social listening tools we think of when we think about like the mid 2000 or mid 2010s um it also allows users to benchmark that data against comparable content so they can see what's doing better like you know what kind of lift they're getting from certain things so it's definitely something that is relatively new to women's sports um and you know like to your point it uses ai to sort of you know find trends and measure things and do all of that stuff as well all right i like the idea of helping them measure lift because i'm I'm thinking like women's sports, lifting.

3:00Yeah. Been doing a lot of that lifting. Okay. Yeah. I think so too. Alyssa just wanted an excuse to brag that she's ripped. I've been doing a lot of CrossFit, so that's my engagement with women's sports right now. If you don't watch our video version of this podcast, you're missing out. Okay. Victoria, you also mentioned engagement. I think engagement is kind of one of the buzzwords right now in at least TV advertising other than performance, kind of because it's a prerequisite to performance. What do you think this platform reveals about the shifting priorities in streaming and sports advertising?

3:32Yeah, I mean, performance TV is obviously a big trend we've been seeing for at least a year now, if not longer. And sort of figuring out how that works with CTV is an interesting challenge because, you know, TV is typically thought of as a very passive experience. That's why it's been great for brand awareness in the past. So, you know, a lot of advertisers are using, you know, interactive ads that they can actually measure some kind of performance on. or they're using new types of measurement or audience data to sort of try to figure out like what people are actually doing after they encounter an ad.

4:03But I will say with women's sports in particular, there's a lot of passion and engagement and interest out there that's hard to capture or measure any other way than, you know, looking at social, because that's kind of where these organizations have the most control over what they're able to do with fandom. Because something that Laura Carrente, who's in charge of Deep Blue, told me is like women's sports just doesn't have as big a footprint in the media landscape, even though it's rapidly becoming more popular. Because when you think about sports, it's not just the games themselves. There's this whole secondary space of pre and post game coverage.

4:38You know, TV shows where talking heads are yelling at each other about somebody's performance, documentaries about cool moments in team histories or particular players that have been really cool. And you don't get that as much with women's sports as you do with men's yet. So that's part of the reason why there's so much demand for this inventory, because there just isn't that much to go around right now. And so being able to engage with the fandom on social media or sort of measure performance that way helps in a lot of ways. Okay. So Victoria, speaking of which you mentioned that women's sports has not as big of a footprint or not as much inventory in the media compared to men's sports.

5:14So I noticed in your story, the powers that be kind of are creating more inventory for women's sports. Can you talk a little bit more about how they're doing that? Yeah, something that Deep Blue has been doing a lot of is they've been sort of working with and partnering with brands and sports organizations to sort of create that content, like they're either creating these IP deals. It's not necessarily about like pitching a show just on its own to a publisher. It's more about like having all the backing and making sure the brand is like interested in the final product and sort of putting forward that money to begin with.

5:47So it's almost like sponsorship opportunities, I guess, that they're starting brand first with those. And that's really interesting because it's sort of creating that secondary inventory. You know, you get a whole documentary series about like certain players in the WNBA, for example, stuff like that. Obviously, that is not going to create as much inventory for people who weren't that brand to begin with, because obviously they they get for stamps and there might not necessarily be ad spots in all of that content and it requires promotion in and of itself, but it sort of raises all boats in a sense because it's creating that opportunity.

6:19And then once the audiences are there, they can sort of capitalize on that a bit more. I also just have to say, I mean, zooming out, I'm just noticing that, you know, brand integration or sponsorship of actual content, this more advanced version of product placement the way i think of it uh is kind of just more of an emerging rising trend in tv in general so i think it's interesting to see it at play in women's sports no pun intended but i should have taken credit for it um so actually it is like an old thing like even with like nielsen owned some company that used to you know with like used to kind of like just make recording like used to like vhs style like record all tv events and like they would because they would need it to see how many times or how many times does your beer logo appear in a game or something like that there, which is also why there's so many brands like brand sponsors love or like stadiums and leagues love the like press room interviews because they're like extended times when you when this brand is in view, which they and they get like those deals are you know which is part of why like wmba stadium sponsors like you hear a lot of news it's like okay well those ratings are way up and like those are actually just like worth a lot more now because you're getting a lot more visibility like more rate like those are those brands are showing up and and there is some just sort of like obscure crediting that is happening and those like that for those sponsorship deals well and it also goes back to the history of television and radio before it like you know you'd get the colgate hour with so and so comedian or whatever like that's that's a that was a really common thing back then and the fact that it still is today is interesting um i will say speaking of colgate um or not colgate specifically but just in general it is interesting to me that the brands that are interested in women's sports aren't necessarily all women focused brands uh which is good because there's a lot of men who also watch women's sports which I mentioned in the article a bit like it's not just oh we're looking for women we got to go find the WNBA like the the things that are different about the women's sports fandom in comparison to the men's sports fandom it's not just gender or it's it's not even gender like I wish I'd found this before when I was writing the piece but Vox Media did a really interesting survey about men's sports fans versus women's sports fans and like men's sports fans more are more likely to root for a team because their parents rooted for it whereas women's sports fans get into it kind of for love of the game.

8:49Like they're just really into sports and they want to see more sports. Like it has nothing to do with like, well, my dad likes the Mets, so I like the Mets too, I guess. Like it's a very different kind of vibe. It's a lot more active and community driven. And that means you kind of have to advertise to them a little differently than you would, you know, anything else in the sports world. I also want to chime in and say, this is a little bit tangential from CTV, but just in terms of, you know, women's sports becoming more popular for brands in general and among the general population. a couple weeks ago Gotham FC which is the New York New Jersey women's soccer team played a game at Citi Field which is not usually where soccer teams play and it was the largest women's sporting event in all of New York City's history and they had a lot of brand sponsors and like you know little free snacks they were handing out from various brands and stuff so you're definitely seeing some of those bigger or even smaller maybe more local brands wanting to get off the ground and finding a place in women's sports to do so I'm going to Citi Field on Friday to see the Mets but that's a good premise to kind of compare like the sponsored hot dogs and kind of just see like what brands are talking to which sports fans.

9:51So I guess I'll let you know what happens. Gummies and yogis, which are like yogurt covered fruit gels are the ones that Gotham is really partnering with. I realized I made a face. It's not really my cup of tea, but I do love moms, by the way, because those are, that's like toddler baby food. Yeah, I do. I do think women's sports are catering to a young generation of like young girls watching themselves grow up. And I do think it's interesting to see brands that might target like children more so than you would see in men's sports. Well, and just to sort of segue into our next conversation, which is more about digital out of home.

10:25I do also want to point out there's this interesting push to stream live sports in public spaces as well. And during those streams, the ads are mostly coming from the original broadcaster. It's whatever deal they have to license that out. But they're often done on screens that have their own ad loads. like you've got um like nyc in new york city you've also got reach tv which programs ctv content and digital out of home ads for airports for example and so they're also working on a big thing or they just recently wrapped up a big thing with the world cup where they had these giant screens in host cities in those airports so far nobody streams women's sports in public places like that but i feel like it's a relatively new thing and like you know like nyc only started doing it because we have a cool mayor now who was like what if they started doing this for the Knicks game so maybe we can get some of that going for the women's world cup I think that's next year right because that team actually wins yeah I mean maybe we'll start seeing that out in the wild soon I mean it's funny because my roommate like constantly asks if I want to go see the New York Liberty games with her and I just happen to be busy but I'm thinking well if it was on the link NYC I can just go watch it on my lunch break and then we could talk about it so we'll see hopefully that happens post up on the corner watching the Lincoln was well Victoria did that right?

11:35I tried. I ran to like three or four of them and I couldn't find one near me because it's not every screen all the time. Our dedicated reporter on the ground, Victoria McNally, everybody. Yeah. So you mentioned a digital out of home is becoming a more popular place for sports. So I actually had an interesting conversation with Sweetgreen about their World Cup campaign. They worked with a startup called Atmosphere TV, which I've covered in the past. And the idea is, in this case, maybe I'll just explain how Atmosphere works. in two seconds, but they program fast channels. So think like things about pets, trivia, tattoos, random things, lots of genres.

12:12So the idea is they program these fast channels, they put ads in them, and then they distribute this into venues like bars, sports, what have you, so that the restaurants or venues, they get that incremental ad revenue, and then advertisers get exposure in public places. So for Sweetgreen with the World Cup, it was funny because the timing kind of worked out for them because they just launched wraps. So they wanted to use the World Cup to let people know about their wraps. And then coincidentally, unrelated, the cyclospora outbreak happened. So that was really fortuitous and serendipitous for them.

12:47As I keep reminding Alyssa, most wraps do have lettuce in them. Be forewarned people. Not all of them. A tortilla does not negate the presence of lettuce. I know I'm basic and I just like beans and rice, But yes, there's four wrap flavors. Some of them have lettuce, some don't. But anyway, that wasn't the point. The point is that they have a new thing and they want to let people know about it. And for Sweetgreen, their thought process was more like, oh, a wrap is a more handheld, portable food than a salad. So it makes more sense for us to use the World Cup to let people know we have wraps. Because it doesn't make sense.

13:19Imagine an athlete running around with a salad bowl and a spoon. I've done that before when I was late for a meeting. And it really doesn't work. You had a lot of strange looks. It wouldn't work for them. So this kind of worked out for them to use the World Cup for their wraps. Anyway, so that's the premise of the campaign. And the sweet green call that CTV or out of home. That is a good question. So so atmosphere. It's interesting because it is a digital out of home play. Right. But it's it's interesting because if you ask anybody who runs a digital out of home company, they oftentimes won't really call themselves digital out of home.

13:56and it's interesting because I think these companies want to capitalize on the prestige and CPMs or whatever of connected television that's in the home seen as premium you get the idea and if you ask atmosphere they call themselves CTV in real life and I understand that because it is you know television that has advertising and it could be premium it could be sports and it's out of the home but there are obviously inherent differences so I guess that's a debate we can totally have for another hour uh but to answer your question but i have seen those like you know i always like clock those screens and like elevators or you know men's bathrooms i've seen them sometimes always like a bud light or something it's you know on the walls like about the urinals or something it's like all right well like i don't know how they're like attributing this um it reminds me of like have you ever seen the people like holding a clicker at like the station of like a train station or something you see them if you go in like the suburbs of mta or something you'll see people early in the morning they're like clicking as people come on to the station and those people are being paid by like clear channel or some like billboard company who is attributing like whatever eyeballs on like the you know these video you know billboards or whatever um so it just goes to show you what they'll do no fun fact uh tangential but fun fact a lot of those people are actually doing like environmental not like green but like literally the environment of what's around um they're doing like environmental reporting for building stuff because my brother does a lot of that too like he he works for uh oh god now i'm gonna completely butcher what his actual role is but he like he does a lot of like building inspections and like planning and that sort of thing so like it's a lot of like figuring out how much foot traffic is in a particular area before you decide to build a new world is just full of people like click yeah well it's better than scroll scroll scroll speaking of foot traffic yes that was an important um you know metric for really any digital out of home campaign so it's interesting because sweet Green really wanted to raise brand awareness and reach, as do brands who pursue CTV adjacent or digital out-of-home buys, right?

16:17But there also is, of course, a need for performance, and foot traffic is the main thing they're trying to sway as far as lower funnel metrics. So what they did was Atmosphere really tried to, I guess, target the ads so that they would be within two to three miles of a store or a local physical Sweet Green store. Okay, so according to the data, audiences who saw this campaign on an atmosphere TV run screen visited a physical sweet green store at about 114 % higher rate than those not exposed to the ad. Now, take that with a grain of salt, though, and not lettuce, because if you zoom out and you look at the data, overall, you have to acknowledge that there's, you know, you win some, you lose some.

16:57Of course, the campaign helped them literally drive some foot traffic into local stores. But overall, you know, they're also, you know combating the the slight decline in foot traffic overall because of the um i'm trying not to call it the poo poo concerns the cyclospora outbreak concerns um and so it's interesting because cbs news had some interesting data uh about you know those types of stores that are losing foot traffic poor taco bell i literally had to stop going it was my favorite for sweet green they saw about 4.7 drop in foot traffic on the 18th the penultimate day of the world cup compared to your average Saturday.

17:31Actually, not so bad. No, that's not so bad if you think about it. Yeah, so I think the positive numbers here are definitely in their favor, but, you know, so slight perspective check, but overall, you know, sounds good for them. Well, and I think it's interesting the way that digital ad-a-film often mirrors CTV in terms of how audiences are found and also how things are done contextually. That's not something I talked about in the Women With Sports article necessarily, but in the LinkNYC article that I did a couple weeks ago, We talked a lot about like, you know, if you're looking to target families with digital at-home advertisements, you look at screens that are near school pickups and like, you know, day parts that are near when those schools are letting out for the day.

18:11You're, you know, if you're doing stuff that's related to sports, you're going to look at a lot of places in your sports bars or like places that people are watching those sports. So I think that's something that's really an interesting comparison between both forms of advertising. they're also very like sort of fundamentally about blanketing a market or like a sort of an area um whereas like web is just sort of about like you know that right person wherever they are in the universe um whereas it's like okay like i really want to like i'm trying to do something in chicago um like you know you could like narrow your web targeting and do all that stuff but it's just much more like makes a lot more intuitive sense to be like okay here's like the chicago tv markets and like streaming and here's their like you know the out of home i will say i do think you can hire or like rent out a particular link nyc screen near somebody to advertise it because i swear i saw one once that was like congratulations tiffany on your promotion and i was like oh that's crazy that's really cute but that's also crazy i used to live like a third of mile away from the pentagon when i worked at pbs i was like and and i would see those like it's a total joke like just how like in san francisco it's just like it's just like a ridiculous ai like garbage marketing everywhere um like in dc jensen please notice me yeah it's like hey fred the weapons buyer at the like the army department like we're targeting you it's like it's like these like very obscure you know it's like we sell ballistic missiles and like we're looking for you, Fred.

19:51Like, we see you. Well, speaking about extremely targeted out-of-home campaigns, I fear that might lead us perfectly into something else I know we wanted to touch on during this conversation. Joanna has so many skills, and segues are just one of them. So, we are going to take this moment to take a quick break, and then when we are back, we will talk about how AI is having a weird role in digital out-of-home and how digital out-of-home is just existing beyond the world of sports, because Joanna can talk a lot about both of those things. So, We'll be right back. Stick with us.

20:28And we're back. So, Joanna, you covered a very interesting digital out of home campaign recently in our newsletter. It had to do with the iWork company Black Sheep, who was a little bit peeved, to say the least, about a recent instance with a Google search. Tell us about what happened. It's true. And now our listeners are getting to finally see how the sausage gets made because nobody knew I wrote that part of the newsletter. um so yeah black sheep is an eyewear company and basically their whole shtick is that they sell eyewear glasses primarily for extremely extremely cheap like we're talking eight nine ten dollars rather than you know several hundred dollars that most of these more upscale places are charging and their premise is when you compare us to these really high-end brands we are performing just as well if not better in terms of like how good our glasses actually are so they were on the today show and it was going great.

21:20They got a huge surge in search traffic. They were at the number one organic spot when people Googled black sheep glasses, which makes sense. And all of a sudden, while they were on the Today Show, actually, they tried to demonstrate how to like look up their brand and it glitched. They clicked on the top link and it took them to an error 404 page, which as you can probably imagine for a marketer is nightmare scenario. And instead, since people weren't able to get directly to their website, They were instead being directed to all of Google's sponsored links that were popping up. And they are pretty much claiming that this was intentionally designed by Google, because when they reached out to Google and said, hey, there's this mistake, Google did not respond to them.

22:01They lost a ton of money on it, obviously, from all the organic search loss. And they decided to give Google, I can't say a taste of their own medicine, because Blacksheep does not have any control over, you know, search optimization. But what they did do is hire a bunch of trucks with like screens on the side that said, shame on you, Google, signed black sheep.io. And they had dozens of those trucks outside the Google office on Tuesday morning. just to, yeah, really show Google where it was at. And I think that's a really great example of digital out of home being, as James was kind of saying about how they would do this in DC, directly targeted.

22:44But I think that's also very clever because I'm sure that's a very, you know, high traffic part of the city, big offices, large corporations. I'm sure there were, you know, thousands and thousands of people going to work that day and going, oh, I wonder what Black Sheep IO is and what Google did to them. And then if you Googled it, there was obviously like a press release on their website where you could, learn exactly what I just told you. So this sounds like an evolved version of like those, those inflatable rats that are like in front of some office buildings when someone has a complaint, but it's like very specific, you know, I was gonna say it sounds like an evolved version of three billboards outside of Ebbing, Missouri, but I'm a big old nerd.

23:17So that might be a too deep a cut. But slightly more relevant. I'm not known for analogies, but I'm glad you're still pity left for that one. How come she will be? Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, Joanna, what do you what do you think is going to happen now? I mean, do you think it's just going to blow over? Do you think black chief is kind of hoping this could be a you know part two of this campaign and probably start to make some money back i mean hopefully they make some money back because obviously that was you know deserved and i actually got to speak to them briefly and i said to them you know how do you wish google would have handled a situation like this in the future and they said we don't think google it's a question of how google handles it like they're not going to change the game they're playing we need to see the fact that like we as advertisers kind of more globally need to see that Google is trying to be an advertising platform, not a objective search engine platform, and just don't let them play dirty was kind of the advice they had to give to marketers.

24:09So any marketers listening to this, drop us a line if you've had any similar alarming concerns with the way you may or may not be showing up in organic search. All right, nice plug. So next. It's not a plug, we're journalists. give us tips i don't know please fair enough all right so joanna that's not the only digital out of home campaign you covered recently there was another one that also involved an interesting use of ai uh it was hello fresh tell us about that one it sure was yeah so um the cdp high touch i've covered them a few times i'm sure most people in the industry are familiar with them they recently launched an entire ai suite earlier this year um but within that suite they had a specific tool and the tool is called ad studio and as you might be able to guess from the name it is kind of a creative studio that helps generate these ads and you know as everyone always says they insist that it's not taking jobs away from creatives and it's not taking the human touch out of it it's it's allowing them to basically just experiment more rapidly and create creative at scale um because you know i spoke to some people from hello fresh and connor Feeney, who's the head of marketing within the US, was saying that people's attention spans are so short and AI search tends to really favor recent content.

25:27So brands are feeling like they just have to be creating new content at a much, much faster rate than ever before, because things get stale really, really quickly. Alyssa, were you going to ask something? You looked like you had a question. Oh, you can tell. Yeah. So I want to say, I feel that what I'm noticing as a trend is that when there is a use case of AI that's, you know, maybe reasonable. I feel like some companies are, I don't want to say defensive, but they always make a really explicit point to say like, hey, we still have humanity and creativity here. Don't worry, everything's fine.

25:58So I just think that's interesting. But what do you think this says about, you know, maybe what might be like acceptable use cases of AI when it comes to creativity? Maybe a loaded question, but you're all going to have opinions. So ready to go. Definitely a loaded question. Definitely something I have opinions about. Definitely something that I think everyone in the industry has slightly different opinions about depending on who you ask. Like there's no, there's no universally accepted answer yet. But something I found interesting is that this particular campaign was launched in Times Square and it wasn't just HelloFresh.

26:25It was a really actually interesting array of clients that were part of this activation. There was TripAdvisor, HelloFresh, Air New Zealand, and DocuSign, just to name a few. So really an interesting variety. And I know that, you know, And High Touch, obviously, was very excited. And they said we wanted to prove that, you know, AI creative can be somewhere as big and as famous and as renowned as Times Square and shows what really what AI can really be capable of. and I think it's interesting because I think there's been a lot of consumer backlash recently about AI creative and AI slop and I'm sure we've all seen I think especially at like restaurants and bodegas they all have that same really weird granular food imagery created by AI do you guys know what I'm talking about yeah it stinks where if you look too close you're like that doesn't even look like a fake hamburger it looks kind of like play-doh um and I've seen people saying like Like, you know, if I see that, I'm not going there.

27:24And I think, you know, sometimes that's more complicated with small businesses who might not have huge creative budgets. But it's interesting to see these, you know, massive, wealthy corporations choosing to do AI creative when there is so much consumer backlash against it. And they're not trying to hide the fact that it's AI creative. They, you know, pitched us and said, write a story about this AI creative. So I do think it's really interesting how a lot of consumers are saying it's not that we think AI creative is just bad. It's like, even if it looks good, we don't like it. Whereas I think a lot of marketers and tech companies are saying, well, if we can make it look good enough, people will change their tune.

27:59And I guess we'll have to see if that happens. I haven't seen any direct feedback to this particular campaign yet. So I do think it's really funny that the big part of their pitch is, oh, we're doing it in Times Square. Isn't that cool? Because A, there's so much in Times Square. like I'd be very curious to see how ads that are there for a short amount of time as opposed to like you know the big Coca-Cola ad that's been there for decades how those actually perform because it's just like total sensory overload like are you actually remembering any of the ads you see that are have not been there more than once um which is that's a and then b I feel like there was a big thing a couple years ago where a bunch of like nft campaigns and like bitcoin mining companies were spending all this money on Times Square ads that would show up for like 20 minutes and they've really pat themselves on the back like, oh my god, we did it.

28:49It's like, yeah, but you still don't have a real business. So like, I don't, I don't know how helpful that is. I mean, I think it's important to note that this particular activation was a lot of household name brands. Like, if I'd never heard of HelloFresh, maybe I wouldn't clock it. But I know HelloFresh, I see their ads, I have friends who, you know, get their meal delivery. so if i see an ad for them in a very very populated place like times square i think i'm more likely to go oh yeah i know that my friend just made their chicken last week and told me it was really good yeah helipers is definitely a more known quantity than like i don't know dumb monkeys or whatever that one was called i think there is a degree to which they just want the like they just want like the amplification like it is just sort of thought of as like oh like something in new york in time like Times Square is Times Square and it's full of ads because 70 years ago, the New York Times made that its headquarters.

29:38And so everyone just went and stood out there with signs that was like, yeah, like right about up. Like it was always the plate. That's how it started as the place you would go and to get your thing amplified. And now it's Times Square. It's like, that's kind of, I once did a research project freelance where I went into the New York public libraries records of like the people who own the original ball that drops and years like and are responsible for all these different like neon sign types of advertisements that existed in times square before everything went digital and it was so fascinating because there's so much like art and labor that goes into molding those neon signs and they look really cool and i kind of wish we could go back to that but it's probably not ever going to happen because i don't know how measurable that kind of stuff is.

30:27I do think it's interesting, though, that kind of, as you're saying, even though the technology itself has evolved massively, from literally picket signs to digital billboards, Times Square as a, as the crux of advertising as the place people want to be to show they've made it hasn't changed. And I think it's really interesting that, you know, sometimes we say billboards are outdated or whatever. But realistically, I think for a lot of advertisers, that still kind of feels like the pinnacle of success and saying, you know mom i made it i'm in times square it might have not been the case in like the mid 70s but you know it ebbs and flows it ebbs and flows and we're back in a flow i think speaking of um so sweetgreen was one of those companies uh that also benefited from this this activation and was one of the clients so um joanna are you noticing a trend with either the types of brands or the types of objectives that are behind uh this push into digital out of home or ai or both well for For AI, the answer is everyone, everywhere, every kind of company.

31:30Publishers, brands, everybody, I think, to an extent, is leaning into AI, for better or for worse. Obviously, with varying degrees of comfort in terms of how much autonomy it has, how much it's used to generate creative. But that is not where I see the discernment. I think digital out of home, in my opinion, tends to work better, as I kind of said earlier, for brands that people already know the name of. Because if you're only seeing something for a split second, or you only have, you know, you don't want it to be too worthy. Like if you're looking at an Instagram ad, you can read the caption, you can think about it, you can noodle on it.

32:03If you're looking at a billboard that's going to change in the next four seconds, that message has to hit home real fast. So I think brands that have the advantage there might be ones where either the product is extremely unique and people are going to remember it, or the name is going to latch into your brain because you already know it exists. And this is just kind of a cherry on top. This is why this brand stands out. I'm sure it's probably also different for places where people are walking around as opposed to where they are, you know, captive in a subway train, for example, because I know there's been a big uptick.

32:34Oh, definitely. AI related like companies like, you know, not necessarily stuff made with AI, although that's there too but like you see so many um like word.ai check out your workflow like stuff like that yeah to the point where people started making fun of them and putting fake ones out of them yeah i see so many ai ads on the subway i think that's a great point because these are smaller ai like challenger brands for lack of a better term like there's this one called gen spark that i see on the subway oh i see it all the time yeah so if i saw that on time square billboard i'd be like I wouldn't pay any mind because it doesn't ring a bell.

33:08Right, I think Victoria makes a good point. It's about how much time they're expecting the viewer to spend looking at the ad. And now we can debate what an impression is and how many seconds of viewability count. You can't walk to the JetSpark offices like you can walk to a Sweetgreen location. So that also matters. And speaking of Sweetgreen, I think it also, to your point, and now I'm going back into the context of the World Cup in specific venues like restaurants and things. Yes, tie it all together. to support your argument i mean i think the fact that sweet green is a well-known name but the the fact that they have wraps is not a well-known fact compared to the brand um the brand name that exists and the prestige that they have um lettuce aside but uh yeah who else has wraps who just salad and i feel like they should change their name if they're also gonna offer wraps but that i do always forget that mostly salads doesn't really ring just salads changed to mostly salads it's true wow we should pitch that uh okay well we're gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna wrap it up like this well thank you all right open-ended question for everyone in five words or less how do you feel about ai's role in advertising i'll give you i'll go first ready go should be behind the scenes okay your turn you just pointed but there's That's on Zoom.

34:25Don't say it. I got it. Better for analytic uses. Oh, I'm so tempted to do the Buffy out for a walk thing. I'm not going to do it. Too many words. Victoria stole the crux of mine, but mine was going to be keep it away from creative. Yeah, I get like better on the back end, not creative. I think maybe that's six words. That's too many words, James. that's too many words and we're all on the same page better on the back end is exactly better than what I would have used it for and that's a wrap on rap jokes we'll see you next week