The Apple Bites Back

0:08Welcome to The Big Story, a roundtable featuring members of the AdExchanger editorial team. Every week, we bring you an in-depth discussion of key developments in digital marketing and media.

0:23Today's episode is sponsored by Basis, the leading intelligent operating system for autonomous advertising. Its enterprise AI solution transforms campaign briefs into strategies and media plans that integrate directly into omni-channel activation. You can learn more at basis.com.

0:45Hello, AdExchangerites. If you've never heard that one before, that is the last time I'm ever going to say that, so enjoy it. Now that I have your attention, hello and welcome to today's episode of The Big Story. I'm Senior Editor Alyssa Boyle filling in for our fearless leader, Sarah Sluice. And with me today, I have AdExchanger's Editor-in-Chief, Allison Schiff. I don't mind AdExchangerite. Good. I'm not saying it again, though. You can own that one. And Senior Editor James Herscher. Hey. So today we cover on the latest regarding the Apple iOS 27 debacle, where Apple is blocking a list of ad tech vendors from collecting data or serving ads on the Safari browser, including the Trade Desk, which made an appeal to Apple after finding itself unable to deliver ads on Safari to Apple device owners who upgraded to the latest iOS version.

1:31Senior editor James Herscher and our privacy expert, editor-in-chief Alison Schiff, have the latest. That's a nice ring to it, by the way. Editor-in-chief. I like that. I take it. And then at the end of the episode, we will turn to Advertising Week New York, where I just came from to record this podcast. You're welcome. And we'll share some thoughts and takeaways from the event. And spoiler alert, the big word of the week rhymes with creators. Now, let's dig in. So let's start with the drama surrounding Apple iOS 27. James, last week you wrote the story about the trade desk finding itself unable to serve ads on two Apple device owners who upgraded to iOS 27, which was released on September 14th.

2:13And the trade desk was not the only ad tech vendor that made it onto some sort of block list that was implemented as part of Apple's efforts to reduce user tracking across sites in the name of data privacy. So you're the expert here. Let's break this down for our readers. Tell us about the scoop. Tell us about what happened when you covered that story last week. I know lots of has happened since then, but let's kind of start with the basics and then we'll catch our listeners up to speed. Sure. So so from the beginning, I suppose, it really surfaced to me when I guess after maybe a week or so, the trade desk started picking up in its, you know, telemetry or hearing from publishers about problems starting to happen with iOS 27 inventory.

2:57I heard the same thing from other vendors. I've spoken with most of the principals involved here. Aside from Apple, obviously no one talks to Apple. That's just the uncrackable center of the atom or whatever. I've spoken with a lot of people who just saw this come up. They're like, something is going wrong. Someone described it as a heart attack because it's very quiet, subtle, very unnoticeable things and then all of a sudden you know realization of disaster or split second um so that might have been a bit dramatic but so essentially the trade desk permutative audigent live ramp unified id um sort of like the trade desk bass backed program were unconditionally blocked they are you know not allowed to do analytics there for the trade desk ads were not rendering um and you know the update from there is that apple has released a beta this week they released a beta 27.2 which you can see that it does remove ad server.org which is the trade desk's domain so at some point that beta will go live and at that point people now people downloading ios will you know like the trade desk will be able to advertise to them again this will not it seems like that just that part of this was a mistake and you know has been walked back a little bit um but generally it remains true the rest of the list is intact and there is a much broader list of essentially you know the entire MarTech and CDP and AdTech category that is in a sort of potential block list.

4:52Well, what about other companies that get caught up in, I don't know if you want to call it a dragnet or whatever, the TradeDesk's adserver.org was a mistake and that'll be rectified, although it's quite awkward in the interim. But what about other companies and their main domains, right? I I mean, there's probably other people that could have mistakes made about them. And that would be pretty sucky. Yeah. I mean, I think there are, you know, there are companies on this list that are on the kind of potential filter list or even, you know, among the ID companies like a permutative like sort of thinks of itself as being very different than a ramp ID, I think, or an ID5.

5:38But clearly is on the same list. And I think from Apple's point of view, like they're just looking at scaled companies with access to this kind of data. And it's not about like we're not doing, you know, we're not here like we're not auditing what you're doing. Like this isn't about what you're doing. This is every company that is seeing this kind of data is now not like, you know, there's going to be a big widespread pullback. To be fair, I think that, and this is putting aside that Apple has its own advertising ambitions, I think Apple sees the world. It's being a little bit blunt here. Just like regular people see the world, I don't think they would differentiate between just, for example, Primitive and another company that also deals in data or is data adjacent.

6:29they would just see them all as one big you know mush they they wouldn't it would they wouldn't tell the difference yeah i think that is i mean that definitely is true of safari um i also think they don't you know they don't think very highly of this whole category as sort of able to self regulate itself um and as being you know i think part of why this is like a is an obscured list And like, there's not, there's not some like list of rules. And it's like obey these rules. They have this kind of dynamic list, which it's, you know, there is no transparency, at least right now there's for, for a company to understand, like, where am I on this list?

7:12Like, how am I being blocked and when and where, um, you know, you just sort of have to figure that out. And I think it is about like, you know, Apple is saying, okay, we're going to play our hands close to the chest because like you like you've seen you've we have seen that if we say okay here's the letter of the law the programmatic industry will break the intent of that law like there's no it so i think that yeah you know we've kind of put this on ourselves to a degree like uh you know this is it's a punishment but you know we deserve it so i want to know like what you expect to happen next right because if apple is not really letting companies know that they're on this list they're going to find out eventually right when their ads don't deliver or something something something will happen you can find out it's it's like a non-trivial annoying process to you know download webkit and decompile it and you know you can sort of go back and especially if you like have a device that you can sort of create the ad so this is like how trade desk um has to Like they don't just get a fix.

8:18Oh, here's a fix. Like they just, iOS says, here's a beta, go play around with it. And the trade desk has to use a device with that beta downloaded to be like, to reverse engineer. Okay. How am I, oh, are we working again? We're working again. You know, it's like, that's how, that's like the black magic of how Apple works. So yeah, that partially is it, but you are, you know, this list of hundreds of companies, like there's a, it's called like a filtering list or something like that. But it's, you know, you can go into the WebKit code and find it. You know, CDPs or whoever can go and be like, oh, I am on this list.

8:56And it's not like Permutiv or ID5 or Audigen or, you know, those companies that are on the unconditional block list right now. You don't know how you're being treated. But all these companies can go see that they are, in fact, on a list. Gotcha. OK. I think you both bring up a good point, though, that basically this kind of highlights that there's a fine line between ad serving and nefarious data collection. And, you know, to your point earlier, like, it's not really about what you do with the data. It's just the fact that you have access to it from Apple's perspective would be, you know, something to monitor because Apple, you know, tries to reduce user tracking in the name of privacy, at least for its own image or for data privacy and actually caring about it.

9:43Who knows? But anyway, Allison, you wrote a column about how this whole iOS 27 situation, quote, hits different than ATT or Apple's app tracking transparency. Why? First off, am I allowed to say hits different? It kind of feels a little Gen Z. Does it come off weird for me? No, I don't think so. I use it all the time. Well, I am Gen Z. You are Gen Z, though. Yeah, well, so app tracking transparency was a policy, and there was a ton of uncertainty at the beginning, but Apple did eventually explain itself to some extent. There was documentation. there were talks for developers at their developer conferences and you could read things about it and then figure out what you needed to do and you might hate it but you basically knew where the line was and businesses kept running i mean apps can still collect data and make money it's just that it was more challenging to do that and measurement took a hit but it's not like anyone was cut off i guess unless they really had no reason to be collecting data and could not get consents.

10:50And this is a different kind of problem because like James was just talking about and you've shown in your reporting, like Apple can just change its list on the fly. So you may not even know when you've been added. So if you're a company, like uncertainty is a big problem for you. You can deal with a strict rule, but you can't really deal with something you can't see or can't predict or can't appeal. So is Apple a neutral privacy referee here? I mean, so it's an interesting question because I think there's Apple and then there's WebKit. And there was a similar dynamic at Google with the whole third party deprecation thing.

11:35The Chrome developers and that team, I do think that they believed strongly in the privacy mission. And I'm not saying Google didn't or there weren't some Googlers that did, but there's the business and then there are the true believers. And so John Willander and the WebKit people, I believe that they believe strongly in privacy. And of course, Apple puts out all of its ads about how the iPhone is safer than Android without actually naming Android. But I don't think Apple can really claim to be a truly neutral privacy ref because like att is arguably good for users but it's also good for apple's own business um and yeah i mean if their party tracking is harder than apple's first party data is worth more i know we're not talking about att now but there are resonances so speaking of tracking right so ad tech companies track people in in ways that maybe they don't understand or have no chance of understanding or controlling.

12:36So does ad tech deserve this fate? I mean, James was kind of just addressing that. And to be fair to Apple for just a second, like the ad tech industry has a long history of tracking people online. That's kind of the whole, you know, that's the shtick. So like when Apple blocks data and identity companies, is it is just doing what privacy advocates have been pushing for forever. And the industry just hasn't really earned much benefit of the doubt on data practices. And Apple is entitled to protect users from cross-site tracking. But just because you have a legitimate goal and putting aside the other items on Apple's to-do list, I would say, it just doesn't make every method for going about it legitimate.

13:26And if you're going to cut off a company from an entire platform, I feel like you should tell them the rule, tell them why, give them a way to push back. Although I keep flip flopping because I also understand that if you give people the exact bar, then that's they'll use that to just go right to write to write underneath it or to game it. I mean, that's also just it's not just the ad tech industry. It's any industry. that's also you know i think i think the new lists are part of intelligent tracking prevention which is like a web kit long-standing i think it was ios like 11 that it came out years ago yeah um and and that is you know that was sort of one of these first like on device privacy things so like that was that was again like that was not a rule that was saying saying like we're gonna put software on your phone that makes like a judgment call based on what we can see okay we know that this person is a time subscriber and like visits these sites.

14:23Like we're going to call this tracking legitimate and maybe on someone else's phone they wouldn't. And this is part of the same thing where it's like we're not going to give rules anymore. We are going to have our own sort of standards and there's going to be software that we control and we write and that makes these judgment calls. And I think I think also Google, I don't really think much of like Google or Apple's, you know, how much they consider publishers like as a stakeholder like oh like how much do we value them but google google could never really make any change that that demonetizes publishers in like a widespread way without there just being this like anti-trust klaxon going off um but apple like apple doesn't really have any like stakeholder responsibility to publishers like apple's responsibility is just very clearly to like iPhone and iPad and Mac owners.

15:21Um, and so I think it's much easier for them to make a change like this where like the big loser probably here is like publishers already. iOS publishers don't mind. They don't get the value that they should on their iOS audiences, which are, you know, which are valued less than Android and Chrome, even though truly like they should be like that, you know, this is like an Apple and iPhone owner with the newest install or like some sweet iPad. Like this is really the customer you want, but publishers don't make as much money on that already. And it's, and you know, I think this is a change that just drives that further down, at least in terms of like what the programmatic industry can do.

16:01But who, like from Apple's perspective, it's sort of like, who cares? Like, like you said, we can, we just have this freedom to just think like, is this right for an iPhone customer? and they don't really have to think about like oh like am i hurting publishers they do have to think about regulators though although maybe they don't really care because it takes forever and the fines are like tiny but france italy and germany like they all went after apple because of att and antitrust concerns and they won um and there's also this big class action that's pending in the UK. So I don't know. A lot of that is control of the app store too.

16:44But it's specifically about ATT. These are ATT cases. Yeah. So because Apple had different pop-ups for itself that explained data collection practices with more real estate. So it wasn't like, do you want to be tracked or not? Tracking is terrible. Yes or no. It was just a little bit more explanatory and it was only for apple apps and i do think here while like everyone in the industry might be like oh like you know cue the launch of the apple dsp or something like in my head i'm like oh apple is this is what apple does they like they pave the road and then a year and a half later like they they move in you know like we've seen this a million times um but would they sully themselves though with an actual dsp yeah no i mean it's like yeah it's definitely it's definitely a joke and it sort of is us in the industry knowing this but i think in any kind of general way like people are just going to see it very clear is apple like standing up for you know apple customers it's going to right it's going to it's going to play well that's the pro like the trade desk could probably feel very frustrated and you know like if everyone got the nuance they'd like they'd appreciate the trade desk point of view but all the trade desk could do is strengthen Apple's hand.

18:03Like if the trade just goes out and complains, all that general customers are going to say, see is like, oh, Apple is protecting us from this tracking company. Like no one's going to like get, yeah, there's. Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of ATT, Alison, you mentioned that this iOS 27 upgrade and the block list that comes with it has more uncertainty. So it kind of makes it harder for ad tech companies or vendors to sort of prepare for the possible future of finding themselves on this list. Do you think that ad tech vendors or platforms will do anything to maybe brace themselves or, you know, maybe like lessen the likelihood that they end up on this list?

18:43Or do you think that are they screwed? Like what happens now? I don't know what you can do. I'd actually be really curious for James to weigh in on this because he's talked to some of the companies. But I'm not really sure what you can do if Apple has decided to tar you with a brush. The nuance is not necessarily important to Apple in this case. So what you could do, I don't know, not run your business anymore. That would please Apple. You wouldn't be on a list if that happened. I don't know, right? Because it seems like what these companies do fundamentally, their business model, is like anathema.

19:20to apple so yeah i don't know what what are i mean james what are companies doing other than like freaking out a little bit more than a little bit or a lot of it yeah there's i think i think one of the like immediate things that did happen there were companies that were you know that were immediately cited not on this amorphous hundreds wide block list but directly unconditionally blocked live vendors who switch domains. Just like, okay, that's domains blocked. And now we're on this domain. And I brought it to them. And they're like, that's not a strategy. Like, we understand that this is not a solution.

20:00And you know, we're working with a handful of like, enterprise clients on a migration. And you know, this gets to what is the real solution, which is you have to migrate to something that's like a first party or the tech lab is pushing trusted server, which is sort of an initiative that everyone could buy into that would act as like a trusted server, a place where everyone could sort of put, where ad tech can just move the supply chain so it doesn't live on the browser and Apple wouldn't have the ability to just you know tinker with everything as it pleases um so that is one thing some of these vendors have already been moving that way like i think you know moving more towards like a first-party data model where you don't have like third-party software that you like sell into somebody but you just you're a you're an app that's in their aws or in their whatever um and you know that and you sort of integrate i think that it's actually not such an easy process because you're sort of living inside the first party domain there are much tougher rules and like you know you get the data it's not just like oh it just like syncs up perfectly we're just going to move there it's a whole different kind of integration um so so we'll we'll see if there are companies that could make this pivot like i think i think one of the things that you know i'm sure the tech lab is getting a lot of like inbound interest and like what's going on with trusted server like how does this work um i'm sure there's a lot of that going on um but yeah otherwise it's tough because these domains they like the point is they've built and compounded for years long standing which is why there are sometimes these like weird like live ramps like the ramp id domain is pipio.com which is because they bought a company called arbor which once upon a time was called pipio and so when pipio's changes name to arbor they couldn't switch out of it because it's like yo we're locked into pipio and then when live ramp bought them they they can't switch off arbor or pipio because it's like uh like we can't you know it's not pipio you can't just move your graph like it's almost like a i don't know it's like a sim city or something you've been building on this spot and you can't just pick it up and go put it in a different domain so if you change your domain you start over and so google's domain is ad.doubleclick.net because they can't get rid of it nobody could get right like to change any of these names microsoft's is the old old app nexus which isn't even app nexus it's whatever was before app nexus is magnite rubicon i assume i think oh i think yeah i forget what it was i actually think it's even earlier than rubicon it's like something that Rubicon was like again all these things it's just like fossils it is just like in your DNA code it is unshakable and it stands to like it you know it demonstrates how unpleasant it is for these companies if they have to switch these like they built their graph on this domain and now they're going to go start from zero that's a that's a problem um so if you're a first-party data company that's not such a big deal because you don't have this whole cross device graph your whole thing is like I'm built on my I'm built on my client's domain and everything I'm doing is just within I'm building their first party um but you know for a lot of these companies the point was the network the the cross device stitching that had just intensive like that had just compounded over a decade or so many years um and yeah that's pretty much toast on safari is what it looks like My ancestors conquered this land.

23:54You know what we can do in the meantime, though, is maybe we can dig up that list of ad tech names that sound like Pokemon. Whatever you were saying that LiveRamp was called, I kept thinking Piplup, like the penguin. Pipio. No, I kept thinking of a blue penguin. So anyway, a Moby was on that list. It was quite a few. That's ad tech for you. Anyway, that's my contribution. All right. So let's leave it there. We're going to stop for a short break. And then when we're back, we will talk about something lighter, like advertising week. That was really crowded. I'm very claustrophobic. So don't ask me why I live in the city.

24:30Anyway, we'll be back. Stick with us.

24:39I'm Sarah Sluice, Editorial Director of AdExchanger. And with me today is Michael Olson, EVP of Client Development at Basis, which is supporting our podcast this month. We're going to talk about something that doesn't get enough attention, paying invoices. What is the cost of slow financial reconciliation and who is the most impacted? Hi, Sarah. Thanks for having me. The cost is time, cash flow and trust. When financial reconciliation takes too long, payments get held up and finance teams, whether they're in agencies or ad brands, are just chasing down numbers. People are spending a ridiculous amount of time figuring out why two systems do not match.

25:23Agencies probably feel it the most because they're stuck in the middle carrying the float. They have the client asking questions on one side and media partners on the other. The longer it takes, the more time everyone spends fixing the past instead of focusing on performance and health and growth of the business. So you outlined a very frustrating problem. I would not want to be that person chasing down invoices. Is this primarily a technology problem, a workflow problem, or a people problem? It's all of the above, but I'd lean towards mostly a workflow problem. The industry definitely doesn't have a shortage of technology or data.

26:05We have a shortage of systems that actually work together. And when they don't, people end up filling in all the gaps manually. They end up downloading spreadsheets, comparing reports, sending emails, chasing down discrepancies. It's a mess. Technology is obviously part of that answer, but another piece of software by itself just simply doesn't fix it. It's imperative for technology to actualize omni-channel data monthly and push to reconciliation systems. As an industry, we have to connect the tech stacks interoperably, end to end, and then allow the technology to do the heavy lifting to align the data between the contracts, media plans, media transactions, and the payments.

26:51Okay. So it sounds like technology and workflow can make this just a bit easier. What does automated reconciliation look like? A lot of automation talk right now. And if I'm thinking about the future agentic state, ideally, reconciliation just happens. AI is constantly looking at delivery, spend, invoices, payments, and then flagging issues as they happen. Instead of somebody finding them three weeks later, and in a lot of cases, it should be, the AI should be able to fix those issues without a person ever touching them with the correct harnesses in place. People should only have to get involved when something unusual happens, which is the human oversight.

27:34That gets away from this huge month-end exercise that costs a lot of time and resources and much closer to knowing where you stand financially at any given time. This is the ideal state basis is going towards for our connection with Prismabung Media Ocean, a platform used by numerous agencies for financial reconciliation. Okay, so it sounds like by connecting those two different platforms, we can and adding agentic AI, we can make it a lot easier and people won't have to chase down invoices all the time like they used to. So thank you so much for sharing with us what that would look like. And thanks to Basis for supporting our podcast.

28:12Thanks for having us, Sarah.

28:19And we're back. And I'm also back from Advertising Week. I went this morning and it was very crowded. Not as crowded as it probably was on Monday, though. But anyway, yeah. Allison, you went to Advertising Week, too, right? Do you have any tiny takeaways, thoughts, ideas, complaints? The number of times I heard the word agentic was kind of ludicrous. I went to a panel. We wrote about it. I wrote about it where Brian O 'Kelly, the CEO of Inmobi, and a guy from Horizon Media were talking about the future of the agency. And I mean, according to agencies, they have a future. They'll be okay as long as they become orchestrators.

29:05And there was some skepticism, though, primarily from Brian, which I get about how agencies, they can't just transform because they want to transform. Like they really should be, and I've heard this from other people, building technology. They should be the orchestrators. That is a role they should be playing, but you could argue they've missed the boat a little bit. I'm talking about the holdcos. I'm talking about the smaller ones, although I think the smaller ones might be in a better position because it's really hard to turn a large ship around. But an indie agency can build technology and be a little scrappier.

29:52Yeah, I mean, agentic doesn't rhyme with creator, but that's my contribution. Yeah, no, as far as indie agencies, too, because I got a chance to meet with the CEO of Goodway Group, Paul. So personally and basis. No, I'm kidding. But anyway, no, we chatted real quick. And but yeah, he was he was kind of just kind of explaining why it's different for an indie agency to, I guess, have more freedom to, you know, adapt or build technology that isn't strictly, you know, at the mercy of Wall Street's opinions all the time. So but either way, the through line, what kind of no matter what kind of agency you are, you're trying to prove that you can grow your client's business.

30:36And then there's you know, that's where agenda comes in and all these other buzzwords. The other one obviously was creators. So that was my first thought sitting in the press room when I got there and then hearing the stage from the thin walls on the other side. And I just kept hearing the word creator over and over and over again. So I was like, all right, well, that's that's theme number one for me. Sure. and yeah I saw this session with the Trevor Noah which is why I went because it's Trevor Noah and I guess everyone else had that same thought because the line was wrapped around the entire venue it was so long it took me I was 10 minutes late to the panel on the line to get in so there were a lot of people there were a lot of people for that one so but yeah he had an interesting thought about well he has many interesting thoughts he's Trevor Noah but the part of the session that I did catch because I was so late was this idea of like the TV's transformation.

31:27And obviously, if not just the fact that, you know, creators are a big part of, you know, what constitutes television nowadays, but also brands reaction or involvement in TV being much more, you know, trying to trying to blend in to content, almost like, you know, talking about Pokemon earlier, almost like Ditto, trying to pretend that they are content in a way instead of having like the delineated commercial break that's very jarring and interruptive so you know nothing really new but it was fun to hear trevor noah talk about it um what else it's always fun when celebrities start talking about our industry i've never seen him speak but um ed norton is an investor in edo and he's been at the ib um leadership the alm the Leadership Summit.

32:13I believe he's spoken there. And I would love to hear him, Ed Norton, talk about ad tech. I know, right? It would be great. And speaking of subtly blending into content, Celsius is very welcome for the free advertising that they've gotten throughout this whole podcast episode. Love the orange flavor. But no, just kidding. They'll never attribute that conversion. But what if they did? What would that say? I don't know. You get like a$2 check in the mail, Alyssa. Yeah, right. I deserve at least 180, I think, you know, I can't even get anything at Taco Bell for that anymore. What else? There was something else.

32:48Oh, advertising week too. I kept, there were just, it reminded me of like CES and all these other really, you know, high profile ad tech events in the sense that they'd be, they'd become very experiential. My co-senior editor, Victoria McNally was texting me after I left, like there's a whole, there's a robot moving around main stage what do i do and i'm like i don't know no sudden movements victoria just just let it fall over and then cover it with a blanket yeah and apparently they were the teletubbies like i don't know the teletubbies are everywhere i saw them in can oh jesus they were all over the closet and i was walking down um on the the sidewalk side of the closet in can one day and there was a whole group of people clustered around the corner, like on the corner of the street.

33:38I couldn't get through. I'm like, what are they? Is there a celebrity around? I was looking around and I noticed they were all looking up. Their necks were craned. And I looked up to like, I don't know, the seventh floor of a building. And on the balcony, it was all the Teletubbies. And everyone was taking photos. And they were kind of like dancing. Proving their worth. What? What? What the heck? Anyway. Could be an attributable conversion one day. You know, kids watching Teletubby. Wonder how they found out about it. Mom took too many pictures at advertising week. I mean, it was I wasn't sure if it counted as a celebrity sighting or not.

34:13Depends how old it does. Yeah. My first thought was for the people in those suits. Like hopefully they're well ventilated because it was hot. It was a really hot can. And those are heavy suits. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is a better event for it. It was very chilly out. Anyway. All right. Well, I guess that's it on advertising week. Oh, and I have one more thing, actually, if you if you don't mind. Because I thought this was funny. But I went to a lunch today where they demoed an end-to-end agentic transaction. So basically a seller agent talking to a buyer agent. The buyer shared the media plan. The agent bought the media.

34:49And then the publisher approved it from their phone before the ad ran. And it all happened really quickly. It was just a small amount of money budget-wise. But it was real. Like the demo was real. It was a real buy. I can't name the brand because it was Chatham House Rules. But apparently, if you refreshed the publisher's site, somebody was able to find the ad, like someone was actually served the ad. But it happened super quickly and it was over lunch. So they were serving food and they did the demo during the appetizers. It was salad and shrimp. And in the time it took me to eat two shrimp, like the whole thing was done.

35:28Like I was joking with someone that we need a new metric, which is time to shrimp. like if someone says their process is efficient just ask them how many shrimp it took let's make that catch on oh my god well then there's subjectivity in terms of you know how fast you i'm a very slow eater so i don't know like one shrimp sounds quick but for me that'd be like all right well it's like 30 minutes oh man yeah but you know there's worse metrics out there so we'll take it i like shrimp so i had really good shrimp the other day oh my god

36:00don't gatekeep my god no i gotta you gotta um oh uh i'll exchange information uh for a celsius really like these things uh anyway all right any other advertising week thoughts no more shrimp observations unless james has something to share i i barely i moderated one panel today but otherwise i feel like ad week is one of those ones where you know i actually had like a totally full week like a slate of ad week events and meetings and such and you know aside from moderating one panel i don't know if i ever would have actually needed to go into like ad week proper and get my pass um there's a lot of stuff yeah that is around um which is sort of just like a funny funny ad week thing yeah yeah they also had some candy around you know i guess i'm i guess are you hungry i mean maybe i am i spent five minutes talking about shrimp i i mean i was in the press room and someone was complaining for about 10 minutes that there were no sandwiches so yes i mean we're very hungry journalists out here there usually are sandwiches if you're willing to pay money they sell food no us journalists are cheap i am i'll speak for myself no i i relate all right well we can leave it there uh that's a wrap oh no i'm hungry that's that's the end of the episode and a wrap.

37:23I guess I'll take a wrap too. All right. Well, thanks for thanks for joining us and see you next week.

37:35This episode is sponsored by basis, the leading intelligent operating system for autonomous advertising. It's enterprise AI solution transforms campaign briefs into strategies and media plans that integrate directly into omni channel activation. Learn more at basis.com.