Abe & Erin Lichy On The Truth About Marriage, Ambition, & Life Behind The Reality TV Curtain

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, Him and Her. Erin and Abe Leachie are on the show. This is a him and her show. They are married. Erin and Abe are serial entrepreneurs. They also are co-founders of the Mezcal brand, Mescalem. I'm a fan. I love their Mezcal. It's so delicious. You also may recognize them from Real Housewives of New York.

0:45And they actually have a podcast called Come Together that is on the Dear Media Network. Michael and I had such a fun time sitting down with them and just shooting the shit on everything from kids to marriage to relationships to business, all the things. This episode is a mixed bag. On that note, let's welcome Erin and Abe to the show. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Do I have what it takes to be a housewife? Yes. Really? I think so. What does it take? Honesty. Okay. and fun and being a real person. But are the girls trips really hard? If someone's really mean to you, yes. But isn't it hard to be like with all these different dynamics trapped in a hotel?

1:35Well, I love girls trips. Are you like a girls trip kind of girl? I'm not. Okay, so I love that. Like I thrive in a girls trip. I just feel like I maybe have post-traumatic stress from bachelorette parties that I need to conquer. Yeah, so many, right? We had to go on so many of those. I mean, Jesus. It was crazy. I was getting married every weekend. Every weekend. That's a lot. Yeah, I was like, I remember one year I had like 12 weddings and I'm like, this is sick. Yeah, and it's even harder if you're a bridesmaid. I know. And then they give you an ugly color to wear. Like, I can't wear mustard yellow.

2:03So bad. It's really bad. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us, guys. We're so excited to do a him and her on him and her. It'll be fun. Have you done this before? Yeah. We've done it. Yes, we've done it a couple of times. But I'm excited to do it with you guys because you talk on a mic together and you entertain together and sometimes you do a him and her and it's like two you're like interviewing two different people on two it should be two different shows right does that make sense yeah yeah and it's fine but it makes it hard because you're like almost having two different conversations in the same episode you're talking about the overlap of talking it's just like something like somebody's coming in to promote one thing and the other person is doing something else and you have to like make it all work yeah does that make sense so let's get down to brass tacks where were you when you found out that Abe sold the Bitcoin?

2:48Everyone wants to know about this. We're still talking about this. She asked me this morning too. Yeah, it's juicy. We're fascinated because I try, like anything we do, I try to tell Lauren exactly like what our situation is because I worry like if something happens to me, I need you to know like what to do with our family. And she has no, like she has no interest. No, that's not true. I have interest. I just think I don't understand Bitcoin. So I don't understand where it is. Which I wish I did. but I knew it was worth a lot and I was mad. So how'd you find out? We were in the car and he told me.

3:19And I was like, you motherfucker. But was it one of those things where you like, like you were mad? Did you know about it before? And then you - I knew we had them. Okay. You're asking if she knew that I had sold it before we talked about it? Well, I was asking, was there an awareness that you even had it in the first place? Oh yeah. But like, I could have also not known because it wasn't my thing. but I still was really pissed. That moment was so relatable when you guys talked about this on the show because we all have had a partner that does something behind the other's back and then gets caught red-handed.

3:53Well, I don't view it in quite those terms. Also, he wasn't caught. I wish he was caught. I think it's more about, and I think, I guess, it happens with both genders, but I think men experience this more where you avoid saying things because you don't want your wife to be stressed out. This is not a justification. this is the mindset and a lot of men experience this and I've learned that you shouldn't do that it's better just be forthright and honest but you're also an avoidant person well I was an avoidant person okay you have changed you have changed but uh you know it's one of the things it's like not malicious it's not life altering it's just things happen when you started a business years ago and it ate all our money up and it was a great learning experience but from that just a sequence of little small things and at what point it's like more small things accumulate it's like well i can't say it now because then it's like all the other shit and then it comes to a head i'm glad it did because we've been really good about communicating and when you say you used to be an avoidant person but you've changed what does that mean well i had a uh spiritual awakening yeah but it was before that you're giving way too much credit to the spiritual awakening fine that's where i slayed the dragon yeah okay how did it begin if you haven't if you don't know abe is the biggest dork you will ever meet i love it i love dorks dork it up slayed the dragon when did you start figuring out you had an avoidant personality and then what was the dragon that you slayed with your spiritual experience so i knew i've always known i've been avoidant but it really came to a head with this bitcoin thing which was evocative of a just a general issue and it's something we had talked about a lot and Aaron helped me kind of bring to light and that was a journey I was on and then a couple of months ago I was in uh at a psychedelic healing retreat and I went I went in I was at the source of creation and I slayed the dragon which was my ego is this the first psychedelic experience you've had definitely not that this was the first of this kind that i've ever had it was it was a binary thing like i've never experienced anything like this in my life and i do psychedelics i've done psychedelics for fun like this was like a medical yeah for fun this was like a spiritual guided yeah inward thing it was it was i can't even explain what was i need to know what what it was though uh i they've asked that i don't specify exactly, but it was a mix of psychedelics, MDMA, and dissociative.

6:25And did you have all these realizations when you were there? No, I was after that I unpacked it. When I was in there, I met my ancestors. I sat at the source of creation. I existed not as ape, but as light and sound, and I traversed the universe, and then I created the multiverse and found the trickster figure, the archetype who are my ancestors who welcomed me home and told me to remember myself and so then it was all the unpacking after that I really kind of understood what I had experienced I would love to meet my ancestors that sounds absolutely come to this you have to tell me off air what this is I'm the guy that created it is also so Aaron from your perspective when he comes back did you notice a difference I mean you've known each other obviously forever like I mean he was he was he had been changing that set like he knew that he had an issue and he started to go to therapy and like was working on himself and all that um but this was like the jolt that he i think he really needed to like really let go of i mean i don't know i don't i'm not going to give you that much credit yet we'll give it time but it's fair but you have changed pretty drastically from that so you don't feel you're avoidant anymore i'm not perfect no i still can be avoidant uh i think it's not a binary thing it's just a gradient really way less i mean like even yesterday yeah we were just talking real stuff about i mean you guys know your business owners like their ups and downs their challenges that we face i mean all good but we we're facing a little thing at work right now and like he sat down and we just like had this whole long talk about it and i was like you just came to me i didn't ask you any questions like you just fully opened up about the challenges that you are experiencing right now as your role in ceo and i was like do you realize that because That would have been something I feel like I would have had to ask.

8:14Like, what's going on with this? Absolutely. So before he would have held it in. What are the different archetypes? It's avoidant. What's the other ones? I want to know which one you are. There's the, it depends on what school of thought. I don't know. There's the avoidant. There's the detached avoidant. Right. Attached avoidant or dependent avoidant. And then there's the anxious something. Which is like. Anxious attachment style. Yeah, I think they're attachment styles, not architecture. Yeah, I think attachment styles. When you guys decide that you're going to go on reality television, you had three kids at the time and you make that decision.

8:51What is the conversation like before you decide to accept the offer? It happens so fast. Are the terms negotiable? No, meaning like what is the conversation between you two as a married couple? To decide to do it in the first place. It happened so fast. I don't even remember. It wasn't that deep or long of a conversation. It was like there's an opportunity to have a journey and experience that could have a pecuniary benefit to us indirectly. And let's just see where it goes. And it was also like the thought came up and within a month and a half I had the offer in my hand. So it was like barely any.

9:25It was just like, are we going to do this or not? And when you go on, do you decide, is it a conscious decision that I'm just going to be my honest, real self? Well, actually, going back to the Bitcoin, it's like an interesting thing that happened. And we had the like literally we filmed the first episode with our kids at Serendipity. And they were like running around crazy and being whatever. And I got like really short with Abe. And I was like, I don't know, I was being a bitch. And later that night, he was like, you know, you're being an asshole. About mushrooms. I was like, you're he was like, you know, you're being an asshole to me on camera.

9:55But no one's going to know why. Like, I know why. But nobody else is going to know why. So you just look like a bitch. And he was like, if you want, we can talk about it. And that's how we decided to have the conversation about Bitcoin. So like I don't think that we plan necessarily what we're going to talk about. But like he noticed that I was still angry and had this resentment because it was we were going through in real time. And that was when we made the decision to like. So I think I think what what if you're on a reality show, you kind of just have to roll with it. You know, you can have conversations about like, OK, we're going to talk about this or we're not going to talk about something.

10:30But like you kind of just have to let it flow. And that's what happened that day where I was clearly still angry. And he was like, OK, we should talk about it then because you're it's coming out on camera. What's a telltale sign of someone that you can tell is producing themselves or self-producing? I think it's so obvious. Tell me how, because I why can't I like see that? I'm sorry. Did you not? Did you notice anyone self-producing on our show? To be honest with you, now that you say that, I could look back on moments. But while I'm watching it, no. And I don't know if I'm just I think that's also an act of choice by a lot of the audiences that watch these shows.

11:06I don't want to know. You want to believe that this is 100 % real. I know what you mean. I think that eventually it comes out. So even if you don't see it in real time or you're not noticing it while you're watching, like eventually it just comes out or like there's like a blogger that talks about it or whatever it is. Like it just does because there's no way to be that self-producing and like that calculated without it coming out on a reality show that's actually real. Without giving us like someone specific, like what's a sign of it? when just tell us what their name there's like people behind the scenes being like let's do this let's do that like you should I told you not to do this I told you not to do that it's like you don't get to tell me what to do so we're on a show like so they they plan what they're going to do for the camera is that what that means I think from my perspective and I'm I'm somewhat of an audience observer because I'm not a cast member and like I'm on it a little bit but observing I think it's a combination of that and I think you can look at the body language you can see there's a disconnect between like the smile and the eyes little things like that that I think the audience doesn't even realize that they're picking up on and over the course of a season or two seasons and you see the same performative shtick it's like okay that can't be real and then you know they're planning behind the scenes I don't know but I'm sure that that happens i think it's also like a personality type that people start to catch on to after a while you know it's like that performative you know like over the top and then it's like after a while you're like what do they do like this is clearly for the show yeah i think that you represent new york really well like when i watched your show i felt like i was getting a look at the real new York through you.

12:53Does that make sense? I love you. That's all I ever talk about. I'm like, I'm from New York. No, I love that. And I also loved how you opened up about your dad. You opened up about your abortion. You were so honest. And I think that that resonates with the audience. When you decided to bring your dad on the show, was he excited about it? Oh, my God. He loved he is such a natural superstar. He was such a natural superstar. So like he was just. he's so cute i i wanted to hang out with him everyone all my friends were obsessed with him very likable i know and how amazing that you have those memories on the show that you can go back to it was hard for me to watch that episode how long has it been now since he's passed about a year and i was pregnant the whole time it's even tougher when you found out that you were pregnant with your fourth were you guys surprised no no you knew i was i was shocked i knew the moment we conceived.

13:49Okay, I know. So did you. You knew the moment. I know what you're talking about. You feel like that was the one. You guys can feel the moment. It just feels like that was the one. We were in Aspen. We had a lot of fun. We were having sex. And I came inside of her. And it was there was love and there was a connection and a spark that you felt too. And I knew at that moment that we had conceived a kid. It's actually happened every single time. What is it like with four children? We're in LA. Do you want to go over For our experience, we were at the Beverly Hills Hotel. This is the real story. We went to a birthday party.

14:24I just got my body back on that day. That's what happened. I took a video of myself. I was looking like creme de la creme at my goal weight. Literally that day, I was like, wow, I'm going to wear red. That's how you know. If I wear red, I'm feeling good. It's not black. I'm feeling good. This motherfucker gets me pregnant the day I got my body back. That's the hardest part, honestly. It's insane. having a baby yeah it's like you it's like it's really hard listen because you were giving off like you were you know you're feeling yourself it's like a charging bull you're so hot charging bull look at this charging bull i don't blame him in the red with that no and you know like you you guys both have kids and so we got a night away we were in a hotel there was nobody around we were going to a birth we had a couple drinks you know i was like yeah that's so much fun It was like, for sure.

15:14It was like, it was a full love. It's weird, too, when you get pregnant and you've been pregnant before, you realize that there's a long journey ahead. So as happy as you are, it's also emotional. Very. Do you know what I mean? A hundred percent. Is that how it feels with the fourth, too? You know what? Oddly, this last time, it was just like, I didn't even, I just was like, oh. I had to disassociate. Yeah, I know what you're saying. My third was the hardest. Why? hardest I gained the most weight it took me a year to lose it I don't know why I don't know why I couldn't tell you it was the heart by far the hardest my fourth I was just like I'm not changing what I eat yeah this baby is not doing this to me so like I literally ate the exact same way as I did before I worked out like crazy they were like oh you shouldn't be an SLT at like you know you're two weeks out I'm like fuck that I'm doing SLT like I'm not like I was not messing around this time that's how i play the sushi the i just i just the oysters i was popping oysters by the way i think they're healthy you know what it's a zinc source you know i feel i think it's a good zinc source what yeah i do i know where you're going what's a good zinc source every guy in the room what's a good zinc source michael will show you later oh i've had enough i am semened out there's semen coming out of my ears i am this is why we waited five years listen cold season's coming up cold and flu season enough is enough ghostbusters so four so four is is the number that's it yes you're done that's it that's it don't even make these faces i'm done i'm done i would love for you absolutes i would love for you i'm not getting a vasectomy i would love it and what do you do about that if you're not getting a vasectomy i know that's my interesting topic condoms i'm happy because i've heard a lot of opinions i would love to hear your opinions because i also don't want one i i heard that there was there and this could be a straight instagram myth you know we all get these things now in the health space but they were saying that there was an increased risk in either alzheimer's or dementia by a like a pretty significant percentage for men that have got of a second and also potentially and again someone may debunk this but medical people potential prostate cancer issues wow and to me like he's going to use this for later on aaron it's oh yeah but the only way that i can rationalize any of this is that you're maybe inhibiting a natural function of the body which i think in any case is like this is like you're trying to make an excuse not to get a long story short into camera i will not be getting a vasectomy um i won't either it's listen i get it so it's the truth is i do get it like we're getting because it's neutered and i get it i don't want my life force but you just have to use condoms so that's it is what it is because eventually we won't have to use condoms regularly and it'll be that much better when i'm 38 dude it's going to be a long time what are you trying to say i'm going to have like menopause soon careful but like we'll move to another segment michael should really get a brand deal with bare skin condoms.

18:22That's the kind he uses. Oh, that's what I hear. Yeah, because they're so thin. I was talking to AI the other day. I'm like, what is this thinnest utility that will get the job done but protect everyone? And I got the big ones. We got those ones. I got the Magnum bare skin, I think. I love how he threw the Magnum one. I swear I didn't really say that. I swear it was like this. I'm just picturing the brand. There's also another one. there's also another one i heard called skin s-k-a-y-n is what i've heard but maybe i need i've heard lambskin is the best we've had that yeah they're very expensive they smell bad i like the old pull out method i feel like that worked in the old days it does work yeah the pull out method works yeah but then you can't come together okay oh jesus christ name of the pod yeah he's the name of the pod that's the name so we all gotta plug something but i actually meant it in the literal sense too you can't okay but you do not want to get a vasectomy because you feel it neuters your life force yes and there's another component i feel like you lose a little bit of psychological leverage in the relationship but not really because why would you know well explain what you're talking about i can get what you're saying explain that this is going to sound like not fully what i'm meaning to say but i'm going to say it anyway god there's a sense of of like we're we're in a long home like we're gonna die all together but there's i think a psychological push and pull in a relationship and one of the things that men have is the you can impregnate more people you can impregnate more people theoretically little threats the way he thinks oh no you know why i knew what he was gonna say i like think like that kind of as a girl like i like to know what my leverage is in the relationship so i understand what you're saying You're saying that it's like, better hold on to this guy because his equipment still works and there's other opportunities to.

20:18And kind of it's fun to be like, as a woman, I cut it off. And by the way, everyone, Abe said that, not me. Abe will get in trouble. I get what you're saying, though. It's a little bit of like leverage. Yeah. Just a subtle thing. A little power. Yeah. I need to look at the balance. I have to balance it somehow. Look at her. How do you guys think about marriage and partnership? That's a broad question. I don't even know where to begin. I feel like we're pretty partnered. Yeah. Like we're, it's weird because we're life partners and we're business partners. Like we, like, like you guys, it's like a lot, it's a lot more than just a marriage.

20:52There's like a lot that goes into working together and having a lot of kids and being in a relationship. I mean, I'd be curious to know what your guys' experience too is. because we've talked about this where the obvious pros are you know you share ideas you're in bed going to sleep and just talking like a lot of great ideas come there and there's a natural kind of flow between your professional and personal life but then there's the potential downside of the dynamics where it's like for example like I'm the CEO of the company she's we're co-founders equal co-founders but sometimes as CEO I have to give a directive and she's like You don't give me directives though.

21:34I'm not going to listen to you ever. Beyond that though, I think that, yes, it is. It's true. The thing that I think is really interesting is to do so. With your balls. Yeah. No. The thing that I think is really interesting about working together and being in a relationship is that if you're two people that love business and love to work, which I don't think is everybody, but if it happens to be that you both love working so much, you can make so much more of your time when you have a business together and like there's so much upside when it works because it really can work you know what i mean 100 so yeah i mean we talk about this all the time i think one the working dynamic in a relationship is way harder to figure out than anything else yeah because of like there's the different power dynamics how things work how they don't work who's got what say who doesn't know what to say um i think the other thing that's really difficult and which would never work for either of us is you know previous relationships or something like that but he was like okay you've got to stop talking about this thing at this time like that 100 that wouldn't work one hot we talk about that actually on the podcast a lot it's it's like it's a natural evolution like sometimes you're not talking about it sometimes you are sometimes like i don't like the restrictive element the other thing see though why it's hard for for like say a man is working all day long at the office and he's running shit.

22:57And then he comes home and the woman's been doing her thing, whatever that is. Let's say she's a stay-at-home mom. I could see how it's hard for both of them because they're in such different worlds to connect. I'll give you like a perfect example. We've been doing this show for close to a decade. We've done 900 plus episodes, interviewed 800 people. Well, thank you. But the reason I'm bringing it up is imagine if one of us only was having all of those interactions with all of these interesting people throughout those years. And then you go home and the other person hasn't been part of that like I would feel left out she would probably feel left out and I think we get to do this together and I think it we're having all these great conversations and learning together and I feel like it would be very difficult in our lives to come home and only one of us had those experiences totally I love that point totally agree but I think there's also on the other side of it and I understand what you're saying about like if one person is out there working then they come home and it's like they can't connect but on the other side of it it's it's like your safe space, right?

23:53You want to come home and be able to vent about what's going on or what you did that day. And if you can't do that because the person's going to feel left out or upset, that's kind of like a double-edged sword, I feel. So like you almost would, I would imagine that you'd want to encourage that kind of communication because otherwise then the person is just feeling like not even involved in that person's life at all because they can't talk about their business life at home. One of my favorite things to do is tell my kids that we are having chocolate water. It's a little trick. So chocolate water is Paleo Valley's bone broth protein in chocolate.

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27:25Ready to give your liver the support it deserves? Head to dailydose.co slash skinny or intercode skinny and get 35 % off your first subscription. Your body does so much for you. Let's do something for it. That's D-O-S-E-D-A-I-L-Y dot C-O slash skinny for 35 % off your first month subscription. What is you guys' strategy when it comes to having four kids and running a business as successful as you do? What's the tip, the takeaway? Systems and organization and asking for help. This is something I learned a year and a half ago to almost two years ago now getting more help which I I did not ever think I would have an assistant like I don't know why like a personal assistant I never I don't know I just was like you know I had people that worked for me at work and they would help me with certain things like in our business but I never thought I'd have a go-to person it has changed my life and also Abe like Abe runs a law firm like he has a successful practice he's now hiring people and he's like it's changed my life yeah and that's a i think it's a big step for people who own businesses that run their own businesses because i'm a little bit of a control freak i like things the way i do you kind of have to when you're growing you've got to give the raise you got to delegate and once you start doing it there's like all these other opportunities and all these other things that you can grow into and it's very exciting actually i also think help when you have help at home i think so many people lie about the help that they have at home you see influencers and celebrities not being honest the reason i have like they'll just they won't admit they have a nanny not in my world on bravo they're like i have 17 babies yeah a lot of on instagram i could see that they don't they're not honest or i'll give you another one a night nurse when i told people i had a night nurse people were like i think some were shocked that they didn't know that that happens and the other half were like thanks for being honest because people lie about that.

29:27I don't think people are shocked. I got nasty comments. I think people are, I don't think people are shocked that you have it or that you've done it. I think people are shocked that you share and you're open about it because a lot of people just don't, are not open about it. I think that having help gives me more time with my kids. People give me nasty comments. Like I really think that. Well, there is a, there is a gender dynamic here where I promise you, Abe and I never get questioned by our guy friends or girls if we have help, like if we have an ending. Yeah, and why not? I work the exact same amount as him and you probably work the same amount.

29:56But everyone wants to ask the woman that. It's very interesting. I look at his help like I get to spend more time with my kids. If I have help doing laundry, then I can be more present. It's a necessary. For me, it's necessary. It's necessary. And I'm so grateful. How is this even controversial? Oh, my God. You should see the comments on Instagram people send. Oh, I had. Well, it's controversial, I think, because, listen, it's a luxury to be able to obviously have help and resources. absolutely um and not everyone is able to have that and so i think it's controversial because sometimes people might be upset if somebody has it and they either can't or it's not available to them so i think like it you know there's that but that's that's in everything right but but help could also be your mom or your sister or it could be i don't have my mom and sister living next to me yeah so exactly i think it's just like any sort of help but when i so i never had a baby nurse not on purpose just i didn't have one with the first two we were also i was like first three Right.

30:52I was like 27 when I had my, we were young and I don't think we even had enough money to spend on like a baby nurse. We had a nanny. I also felt weird about having somebody live in our home. Well, he got used to it real quick. He was like, is she leaving? And then the third was COVID baby. So we were home and we couldn't even have anybody. But this last time, an angel, truly an angel. Like we, we brought her back. We asked her to come back. She left and we were like, no, no, no, we're not done with you. Please, please, please come back. and I got so many comments of people being like like I don't know I said something nice about and they're like how about you try spending time with your baby how about you did it like shaving me and I was shocked I didn't even think twice about posting her I actually got her like a bunch of jobs because I thought she was so amazing I was like let me share her with the world but people were so nasty so I can't even imagine what you got it's like crazy I think too like for me I was I'm working during the day and to perform at the level that I want to perform at like you need sleep i would fire every single employee that dear media has before i would let go of my child help sorry yeah everyone's like every single one because like here's the thing like we like it is such a huge help and for what we do together i mean we work at the same time we're doing this show like we it would not be possible to do anything without it we need help and when we first we had our first child none of our family was there and so we were the first one of our friend group to have it.

32:15So like we need all the help we can get. We were also the first. My friends used to call me child bride and teen mom. But no, but for sure. I mean, but here's the thing. Like I'm, I am shameless about talking about it because what people don't realize like there's also people that seek out these professions and like, and they do this for a living. And so you're also like supporting somebody. You're supporting the economy in a sense. Yes. Our nanny is like another mom, I think. She's like my mom sometimes. She like takes care of me. She's like, did you? I was going to say this, what you just said, remind me of kind of your initial question to tie together, which is, you know, what are you, when you have four kids or even three or whatever, it's quite different when you're a married couple working together because having help enables you to do the business and you're taking out a lot of risk by being an entrepreneur to begin with.

33:07Right. But the irony is you actually end up being able to, you spend more time with your kids because the fact that you work together, you don't have to be in an office to be productive you're at home and you're still able to be productive on the other end of it and be with your kids and so a big part of it is including your kids just in your day-to-day life even if it's business it's like yesterday i come upstairs and erin's so we have we moved into it let me give context we moved into a townhouse and on the we have two different apartments that are part of the townhouse and the lower floor we turned into our mescaloom office so we have our whole staff on the lower i'm gonna need an invite to the mescal office you have to come for shabbat i was gonna say i would love to come for shabbat and you had me at mezcal well it's here it arrived good um what is it tuesday in the middle of the day perfect i know should we bring it up sure bring it in i'll do a little sip okay well we it's a little bit bring in that mezcal anyway the abe has a private office downstairs so he come so like it really moving here also really changed our lives because we're able to work where our kids live So your office is below your house.

34:10Yeah. It's like part of the one building. That's so cool. And you were going to say you came in and your kids were there? So I came up. It was the middle of the day. I just came up to just get a bite to eat. And Aaron's like on Zooms and I'm working and baby Jack is in his walker. He's hanging out. Just da, da, da, da, da, da. He gets to see him. He's there. She's hanging out with him, even though it's the middle of work day. So it's just the irony of people saying, oh, spend time with your kids. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The entrepreneur does give you a lot of fluidity on how you can bring your kids.

34:43Like we'll bring our kids if we're podcasting here for a week. You can be a little bit more malleable and flexible, which is great. What I tell people about that though, because there's probably, there's certain people that are listening. This is like easy. Sounds good for you. There's trade-offs, right? Like being an entrepreneur, you are able to set some of your own schedule and work the hours you need to work. but you also carry an immense risk and stress and stress and you know like if i work in an organization you obviously it's a little bit more restrictive around you know the work setting and seeing your kids if you're clocking in an office or whatever but you know the hours and you know exactly like what the input versus the output meaning like you show up and you know what you're signed up for like you have your salary yeah as much as i would love to hope that everything we're doing will be successful like things can go wrong and go belly up tomorrow yep and and i think that's that's the trade-off and so where I can meet people with empathy and understand their perspective until you've also set like sat in the seat of someone who carries that kind of risk it's it's just a different it's a different way you have to think right it's there's trade-offs is what I'm saying a hundred percent I think you're being a little too nice about it I think people need to be a little bit more empathetic to entrepreneurs who take on that risk because nobody talks about that side of it nobody sees that side of it they just see what's on the Instagram and social media last night about all the stresses yeah it's like there's a lot of fucking stress that goes into running and building a business it's not like everything's great every day like things happen on an hour to hour basis sometimes especially in the beginning stages and that risk nobody cares about that they just care about what they think they know and i would encourage anybody listening who thinks like sees only one side of it try to put yourself in the mindset of somebody who's taken on that risk, who lives with taking on that risk and is not guaranteed a paycheck, they work hard for it.

36:32And, you know. Yeah, I know every single day I wake up that there is with 100 % certainty a problem in the company that I'm going to have to do. Like, it's not like, oh, maybe there'll be a problem. Like, I know 100%. You should have seen me yesterday with the problem. And when people, I'm at, like, you know, you get better at it, but like people will bring, like just pick on Dear Media because we all, you know, you guys, we produce your show. The color of the studio needs to be changed immediately because it looks like foreskin. Yeah, okay. Well, she said it looks like a foreskin. What color is foreskin?

37:04Well, you don't know? It's skin. Doesn't it depend on the skin color of the person who's... Oh, really? You know what it's like? Have you ever seen a naked mole rat? That's the color of foreskin. That's what I was picturing. I'm circumcised, so I guess I don't know. Oh, yeah. So we're really getting to know each other today. So... No, but I just, like, Like, and every time somebody, like I wake up, like this is, and the reason I'm able to kind of like. Foreskin Studio. Can you stop talking about Foreskin? You're throwing me off my train of thought here. I'm like, every time, the reason I don't get so stressed about it anymore is because I'm just constantly stressed, if that makes sense.

37:40Like, I know that there's an issue. Right. And I know as soon as I solve that tomorrow, there's going to be another issue. And I think like the dynamic for people listening is entrepreneurs are the ones that are setting out to deal with nothing but problem solving all day long all day and that's i think that's the mindset that you have to have some people like that some people don't if you don't like that no problem there's nothing like i know a lot of people that are in great organizations that are not at the ceo level that make a hell of a lot more income than me and do much better and you know so i think that's the dynamic so yeah i'm being nice about it but also um i don't really have a lot of sympathy for people that whine about like the circumstances of entrepreneurs because you have to take on so much risk.

38:23So much risk. Like a spice tolerance. The more spice you get, you get more of a tolerance. The same thing with stress where, you know, you're just like, hey, it's a normal day. And also you have people that like rely on you to like exist. And that's really challenging. It's a lot of pressure. Like you, you have to take care of people's salaries and like make sure that they can pay for their lives. I think this conversation is important because entrepreneurship has been so glamorized and romanticized. So glamorized. And yeah, sure. there's glamorous parts of it but i also think it's important to talk about the the stuff behind the scenes as well no i'll give you i mean we've done this show like i said for a while and there's a lot of wild shit that we would say and do on the show but sometimes now because of that responsibility to the organization and other people they'll call me up and say hey like you got to tone it down because it could affect not not that i like i'm still pretty out there but like i have to be thoughtful because there's people that are reliant on this company and me shepherding it in the right direction, if that makes sense.