Ben Greenfield On What Actually Works For Longevity, The Biohacks He's Stopped Doing & Why Living Longer Isn't The Point

28:05That is a, in my opinion, a mega dose. I've never taken that much in my life and I cannot imagine what it must feel like because if I take 0.25 milligrams, it still makes me a little bit, uh, like nauseous around my favorite foods, like a big smoothie or steak or whatever. So I inject redditrutide probably an average of about three times a month when I'm about to get on an airplane and travel all day long, because I don't want to think about food. I'm going to be sedentary. I'm probably not going to have access to great food. So I use it as basically like a travel hack.

28:45Ben Greenfield:And how much are you injecting when you inject? 0.25. Oh, 0.25. Well, always. I heard you say that, but it's always 0.25. But tell her again what the average dose is. Always 0.25. But the average is like 8, 10, or 12 milligrams. So we're talking about literally like... 32 times? Like 1 50th or more of what you normally take, or 32. But GLPs as a whole, I mean, if you actually look at a lot of the long-term human clinical research on them, which has primarily been done in diabetic and obese populations, they have a pretty decent track record for safety. They do quiet food noise considerably. And I think they're a great tool for someone who's say like obese or addicted to food or simply has food control issues.

29:33The problem, first of all, is something that I kind alluded to already, I think the dosage is too high, right? The amount that people get dose causes them to eat so little that the recommendation to like go in the gym, eat enough protein, lift weights is way more difficult than what it sounds like because it's really hard to eat anything on that dose. Like you get nauseous around anything, sometimes even just by looking at food or smelling food, even if it's food that you like. And then if you try to go to the gym after you've not eaten for two or three or four meals, then you're flat. And it's, and it's hard to like put extra weights.

30:12I mean, like I worked out this morning, uh, and, uh, I had some yogurt walking out the door cause we were just in a hurry and I got halfway through the workout and felt a little flat just cause I didn't have enough. I didn't eat enough like last night and this morning. I just, it was a flat. Yeah. No, just imagine if you just were skipping meals continuously because you're on this mega dose. So then you start to see the sarcopenia and the osteopenia and the nutrient loss and the things that are now associated with the standard dose of GLPs. I will say that it is kind of a myth that something like retitrutide causes muscle loss.

30:50The studies that have looked at that, they've used DEXA scans. You guys have probably done DEXA scans before. Look at your body fat percentage and areas where you have a certain amount of muscle deposition, a DEXA scan is incapable of differentiating between something like intramuscular fat, like muscle triglycerides and actual lean mass. And it turns out that the, the tissue loss from being on a GLP like redditrutide is more of the hepatic fat, like the liver fat and the muscle fat than it is actually lean muscle. So it's less of an issue than what a lot of the news headlines have claimed in terms of the muscle loss on reddit trutide but it's still a problem on a standard dose so i think they're a great tool i think that they should be dosed uh lower but the problem for a lot of people is that if you're getting them covered by insurance which is how most people are getting them like us three like we interact in like the fringe health and biohacking world people are like ordering off websites and injection but Like the average person is getting a prescription from their doctor for a preloaded pen and the preloaded pen that gets covered by insurance has to be at a specific dose.

32:06Well, I want a weird rabbit hole. And the Wall Street Journal just covered this a little bit too. Like a lot of people right now are freaking out about employers and employees or insurance costs, but it's because of a lot of these specialty medications that many people are widely adopting. So like all the costs are going up. So not only the employee, but the employer are getting nailed with insurance companies jacking the rates up because of this. And it's largely because of a lot of these large dosages of these specialty medications. Yeah. Super efficacious, though. Because you guys have probably seen herbal supplements that say GLP on them, and they're not really GLP, but they claimed it.

32:38Right. And usually they're bitter compounds because the way that you can increase GLP is by triggering bitter receptors in the intestine. But they don't hold a candle to actual GLPs.

32:49Ben Greenfield:Your moisturizer should do more than just moisturize. Paula's Choice Peptide Intensive Moisturizer is powered by three times pro collagen peptide complex to visibly pump and support firmer looking skin while delivering up to 120 hours of hydration. I will not put makeup on my skin without it being hydrated. Like I don't want a crusty makeup look. I want it to feel rich and cushiony and dewy when I put makeup on. So to me, a moisturizer is so important. If you're looking for a nice moisturizer that makes your skin really glow, you have to check out this peptide-intensive moisturizer. It's insane for plumping.

33:29Ben Greenfield:If you're in the business of plumping your skin, like me, this one is a good one, okay? I like how it lays underneath makeup, and I want a skincare that really performs and does more than just the basics. But ultimately, what I really want, as you know, is visible plumping and serious hydration underneath my makeup. I want it to support my makeup and the canvas of my skin. 93 % of users agree their skin felt immediately protected from dryness. So you're going to be able to feel and see a visible difference right away, which we love. If your moisturizer isn't doing enough, it might be time for an upgrade.

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34:46Ben Greenfield:It's the only brand that I use in my home, in my studio. I am so into the fact that it has no fragrances and it's safe for kids, pets, and babies. My thing when I had kids is I realized I was cleaning my floor with something that was filled with chemicals and then my kids would walk and crawl on the floor. I immediately made the change and I swear I notice my nervous system at my house is so relaxed. Cleaning supplies are full of harmful chemicals. There's synthetic dyes, fillers, hormone disruptors. I tell all my friends this. It's one of my talking points at parties. I'm so passionate about this subject that I'm obsessed with spreading the word about it.

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36:01Ben Greenfield:I am a mother of three. I am booked and busy and I want things to be as efficient as possible in the morning. And I was introduced to Viore a while ago and I just love how everything is streamlined when it comes to color. Okay. I would go on and I would get the legging. I like the short one. I have basically all the colors. I'm a big fan of the darker colors right now because I'm still in the midst of losing a couple pounds. And then I also like how you can do a matching bra and a matching tank. It makes everything so easy. If you live in a colder climate, they have a really cute zip up hoodie.

36:36Ben Greenfield:Everything is just organized with the colors and I like it that way. So what I do is I hang my Viore in my closet and the sets are all organized. So I'll do like an olive green set, a baby blue set, a dark blue set, a white set, a black set, and I'll have it all hung and organized. So I'm ready to go. I'll throw one of their cute sweaters over like my shoulders and I'm out the door. I'm good to go. Austin, it's very hot right now, but I still want to have a look, which is why the sweater is over the shoulders. They also have t-shirts. They really have everything and all of their pieces are buttery soft, which we love.

37:10Ben Greenfield:They also wear well in the wash. Go to viore.com slash skinny and discover the versatility of Viore clothing. Not only will you receive 20 % off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S. orders over$75 and free returns. That's viore.com slash skinny. I want my bra to be so comfortable. I don't want it to cut off my lymphatic system. I want it to support the changes that my boobs have gone through. So interwacool. Let me tell you, they have been doing bras for more than 40 years. This brand knows what they're talking about when it comes to how a bra fits. It's not just about size.

37:48Ben Greenfield:It's about breast shape, comfort, support, and quality. I want my bra to be able to take me through the day. So if I'm working or working out or I'm on the show or going out or I'm with my kids, I want to feel supported, whatever it is. And I don't want to have to think about it. So I really like their push-up bra. It really holds the girls up, keeps them very flattered. And it really has supported me through the weight fluctuations. I've had a lot of weight fluctuations with three kits. And so I need a bra that is serious and I need a brand that knows bras. So the one that I would tell you to get is the perfect push-up bra.

38:23Ben Greenfield:It's so good in sand and it goes really under everything. I personally love it under t-shirts. It wears really nice. I'm obsessed with it. Fun fact, their fit experts have helped fit more than 2 million women. That's wild. So it's a real expertise for them. Visit wacool.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 10 % off your first purchase. That's W-A-C-O-A-L.com. Use code SKINNY for 10 % off your first purchase. Offer valid for new customers only. Limit one code per customer. I have heard that a lot of the peptides that are out there, and I'm not talking about GLP-1s. I'm talking about peptides in general, are growing things.

39:02Ben Greenfield:Have you seen anything like this in your experience? Like plants? Flowers? no i didn't say tumors i didn't say tumors do not i know where you're going hold on i'll tell you i get what you're saying i'll tell you what i think i've seen some skin tags grow on people okay i've seen let me let me let me go down a rabbit hole okay if your hair is growing from the copper peptide let's say what why isn't everything else growing right i'm asking you these questions you could tell me lauren you don't know what the fuck you're talking about i'm just saying there's, I have taken a peptide before. I think it was Tessa.

39:41Ben Greenfield:I tried it for a month and it grew a rash all over my face. Growth hormone, secretagogue. So I stopped. Very common reaction, by the way. But if things are growing like that, what else is it growing? Okay. So first of all, Tessa Morellin has a vasodilatory effect and a rash is common in a lot of people, not because of growth, but because of an increase in blood flow. That's common with almost all of like the growth hormone secretagogues, growth hormone precursors, tessamorelin, seromorelin, iprimorelin. Usually if you take a lower dose, that goes away a little bit, but a lot of people are super sensitive and they get like a niacin-esque flush in response to that stuff.

40:20Ben Greenfield:I get that niacin flush from niacin, so that makes sense. Yeah, exactly. So certain people are genetically predisposed, but the growth thing, so the story is like, let's say BPC-157, for example. BPC-157, one of the reasons that it helps out with something like an injured muscle or inflammation is that it's angiogenic. And what that means is that it can assist with capillarization, like growth of capillaries and blood flow to specific tissue areas. And that has been, it's been kind of like bandied about in the health world that because it's angiogenic and because tumors need like blood flow and capillaries and angiogenesis in order to grow, that BPC-157 can cause cancer.

41:09The issue is that angiogenesis is not angiogenesis, meaning there's kind of two different ways that it happens. One is via a normal pathway triggered by something you may have heard of called VEGF, vascular endothelial growth factor, which basically stimulates the growth of new blood vessels. You'd get it after you do cardio, after you work out, after you do sauna. Some people get out of a cold plunge and they're like red like a lobster and that triggers VEGF growth.

41:37Ben Greenfield:Oh, I get that. And BPC-157 does that too. And then if you look at the type of angiogenesis that occurs in terms of capillarization to a tumor, it's a completely different pathway, not triggered by BPC-157. So there's kind of like two different forms of angiogenesis and the theory looks good on paper, but then once you dig into the biochemistry, it's like, well, no, that's not really possible for that to happen. This is why I bring you back. I need you to come on once a year. Keep going. Once every five years. With GHK copper peptides. So a lot of these blues, um they they interact with mitochondria in a specific way to increase atp production so like if you were to get exposed to certain photons of red light right that's hitting a protein in the mitochondria triggering something called cytochrome c oxidase and that's speeding up atp production in the mitochondria which is why people will use like a red light helmet and then ghk copper peptide like that blue peptide that interacts with a lot of those same mitochondrial components to increase ATP production.

42:44But that's different than growth. That's more like provision of energy to an area that would need something like elastin or collagen production or hair follicle growth or something like that. I have no clue about the skin tag thing. I don't know. What are your date nights

43:01Ben Greenfield:like with your wife? My wife doesn't care about any of this. Are you talking like this to your wife on the date night? No. No. No. So she's not asking. No, because we don't talk about health and that's the only thing I can talk intelligently about. So who are you talking like this to? Your podcast? Like who are the conversations that you're having these high level conversations with? My podcast and my friends who are into health. Got it. Yeah. I mean, you're just, you're just such a wealth of information that it's like, you really have to like keep up and follow along. I love that for you so okay so when on that note because you have so much knowledge around these subjects I mean you've written so many books this thing's like this thing right now it's like it's a weapon it's like the Mark Twain letter if I'd had more time it would have been shorter when you see some of this I guess people getting into this movement or some of the new voices that are talking about longevity and health and wellness what are you cautious about like who who are you trepidatious about listening to what are the messages you're kind of like I don't know, just from your filter in your life.

44:03Especially for young people that are starting to get into this stuff. Yeah. Well, first of all, it's no secret that everything is monetizable. Even me, you'll see Instagram posts where it's like, this is a paid affiliate Instagram post. And then I still do heavily curate and try and test everything before I'll take on an affiliate. And you guys are well familiar with the affiliate and influencer world. but then beyond just basically clarity in terms of any bias or affiliate relationships, which is pretty easy to see or not see. If you see someone talking about a product and there's not a clear affiliate disclaimer, they really, really like that product, which is uncommon, or they're getting money from that product and not saying so.

44:46So the first thing is just like make sure that they're being upfront about the fact that they're getting paid. And the second thing is it is so easy now to use how could I say this like use better living through science and then attribute it to hard work or your program that you're selling meaning I know a guy who makes an exercise device that he claims will give you like this great full body workout and get you yoked in like 10 minutes once per day he's also juiced to the gills but he doesn't talk about the steroids part on you know like in his media or on his photos just the exercise contraption so that's the other issue is like and and sometimes that just involves like having an eye for the way that people look like i've i've worked um with people in in in for example like like movie world tv world and you will see men's health magazine come out or men's fitness or women's health or whatever and they'll give you the program that that person used to get ready for that film but what they don't show in the article is all of the biochemistry that was also involved in getting ready for that film and that's like even as you guys probably know it's like tesamorelin or epimaryllin or um or there's uh multiple peptides that can really accelerate lean muscle gain and fat loss.

46:09And then you delve into the world of testosterone and HGH and Nandro. And that stuff doesn't get talked about because it seems like it's like a shortcut and also, you know, in many cases not safe. And so if somebody has a body that looks too good to be true, usually the body's too good to be true.

46:28Ben Greenfield:How long, how young are we talking with the HGH? Like, what are you seeing? Are you seeing like 30 year olds do it? I don't know of anybody as young as 30 that I know has taken HGH, but I'm trying to, I, I haven't personally been involved in the transformation of anybody like that young. um but i would totally not be surprised if that's happening if we have guys like clavicular out there doing like testosterone at 14 or 15 or 16 and then all the people that follow people like that who are buried into the chemistry which i think is a tragedy just because of the impact on fertility it's like do these guys know like i don't think they how big of an uphill battle they they're going to face against like having kids which is i think they're mostly into mogging right now yeah from what i hear yeah and i get that you can freeze your sperm and yada yada yada it but i still just think and listen i get nobody wants to be mogged we've talked about this do you know what i think the best thing i mean i'm kind of getting mogged right now because you're like two inches elevated i know you know that pedestal this is this is we're fixing that it's we look like the judge and jury in allison wonderland pod moggy well but but then you've got um you've got glowing healthy skin from whatever um skin treatment you got so now i'm feeling a little mogged as well can i tell you about glowing healthy skin because i think i found the best thing.

47:45Ben Greenfield:Let's go. I think it's microneedling hands down with salmon semen all day long. Once a month increases your... Did you know the politically correct term now is salmon DNA? I still am going to call it semen. It's too good. Once a month for six months increases your collagen production by 600%. Your skin does look great. What do you think? I mean, you've experimented a lot. Are you microneedling? Yes. I have a micro no it's not it's not a micro needling um it's a it's a stamp like i don't use the actual pen i use the stamp and i do that once a week yourself and i use ghk copper peptide hyaluronic acid and exosomes i knew you have some some great and there's kind of two day two different ways to do exosomes um there are companies like young goose that have like prp derived exosomes in a bottle that you apply topically there are other companies like um the salius that sell like a bottle of it baby foreskin or something you mix with hyaluronic acid and baby foreskin exactly uh and this is the same kind of exosomes they use in like korean skincare which is huge over there um that's probably the biggest thing that i do and then i mostly use um i actually mostly use young goose products on like their blue peptide spray and because they've got nad and creatine and i think they're a good skincare company full disclosure they've advertised on my podcast before um and i've gotten a lot of product for free from them but like anything i've tried like i do really like it and then if you would have asked me this question um yesterday morning uh i would have said that i don't do this but as of yesterday i actually did do like a non-ablative laser treatment.

49:33And that included mu cells injected everywhere in my face, exosomes, salmon, DNA, and apparently my face is just going to start to peel off tomorrow. Because

49:47Ben Greenfield:my wife's done the full-on... Have you seen the CO2 laser? Yeah, that's gnarly. Yeah. I saw Cameron's podcast out in your lobby. So she went to Cameron. She did his full on like she's like she looked like a zombie because he's in the house for like a month yeah um i don't usually go anywhere near that like it's enough for me to do the microneedling plus the hyaluronic acid exosomes um and i've started doing that like a year and a half ago and i think it helps i took my placenta and put it in the freezer to go make the pills which a lot of people. But then I had a doctor take it across the United States to pull the exosomes out of the placenta.

50:32Ben Greenfield:And apparently only Michael and I can use these exosomes because they're from the placenta we created together. And I had them injected. Meaning legally, safely anyone could use them, but legally you guys can use them. Yeah, there are. It's like we made them. And had them injected into my face and vagina. And it was amazing. Have you ever heard of that? you've created your own placenta phagy pharmaceutical do you like that idea um like mechanistically it seems like a great idea i mean step one is you have to have access to a placenta that you've made so there's going to be a limited population subset uh but yeah that that could theoretically work it's approved by bg it's approved well theoretically one of the mechanics mechanistically yeah yeah okay i got another question i saw a little while back you were experimenting with your hair and hair growth yeah and your hair does look longer and thicker yeah i want to know one about hair growth and what you're doing i think a lot of people are interested in that and two what about graying i'm getting you know i've got a lot more grays you can't maybe you can't see it as much because i got the product in there but yeah yeah hair is tricky like like for a lot of guys hair is tricky because of the testosterone piece because so many back to the testosterone like a lot of guys are on it now and depending on your dose you get the conversion to DHT.

51:50Genetically, a lot of people are more susceptible to DHT acting on follicular pathways and causing male pattern baldness. And so there's so many guys who are either on testosterone, but then taking any number of different hair loss regression medications that also affect things like libido, mood, erectile function, et cetera. So it's kind of tricky. I'm like, if you want to have high testosterone, you may have to just embrace baldness like just embrace your inner dwayne johnson or whatever you gotta just embrace it if you're going bald but you gotta you gotta go full on not just receding um and so then there's also the issue with just like the normally receding hairline absent of dht issues for that um i have done the same thing that we were just talking about for the face like microneedling I did a treatment with Cameron once, and I did a treatment with Austin Regenerative Therapy down here.

52:50And this is where they just microneedle and inject stuff into the scalp the same way as they would into the face. Did it work for you? For your growth. You tell me. Yeah, your hair looks great. Yeah. But I don't know.

53:01Ben Greenfield:Your hair did walk into the room first. But daily, like what we were just talking about, these are like medical. Thank you. These are like medical treatments. But on the day-to-day, there are certain things that can increase blood flow to the scalp. The cheapest and probably most widely accessible for people is caffeine, right? You can actually take like coffee grounds and rub them into your head and then take a shower and caffeine can stimulate follicular blood flow. There's also a compound, I forget the name of it, but there's a company called Scandinavian BioLabs and they make a shampoo, a conditioner and a topical serum with this.

53:39It's like a vasodilatory, almost like a pre-workout for your head. and that one would be similar, but both of those would work better if you derma roll or microneedle or even just use like a fine tooth comb first. What I do is I do a fine tooth comb. This is almost every morning, just a GHK copper peptide serum that I rub in. And then I have a red light helmet on my desk. Is it advanced trichology, the brand?

54:02Ben Greenfield:That's the brand that I use for my copper. The one I have right now is called Oro, A-U-R-O, but there's a lot of them. And then what about for a lot of guys are, you know, people go gray, men and women go gray. What do you think about that? Is there anything to do? Well, GSK copper peptide is, is one like, like that, that is a coloring agent. And then like a lot of the grayness that, so part of it is that when you produce hydrogen peroxide, those peroxides can oxidize in such a fashion that it can, it can discolor the hair. Like it can whiten or gray the hair. and a lot of times that amount of per oxidation can come from dietary factors so step one would be uh decrease your omega-6 relative to your omega-3 fatty acid consumption limit seed oils limit fried foods yada yada like the stuff we all know would cause dietary inflammation that would be a big one um and then part of it too like this is kind of like back to you know the more esoteric like aging discussion it's like you will get gray at some point unless you just decide to color part of it is just like own it um yeah because it's gonna happen but if it's happening prematurely because you have a poor diet um or stress one thing stress can cause it yep and then ghk copper peptide is actually a pretty good topical i would my blood work came back low on ferritin and i started taking ferritin what do you think about that is there anything that we can do to increase our ferritin naturally.

55:30For people listening, ferritin is an iron storage protein. So you could have adequate iron levels and low ferritin. And so even if your iron levels are sufficient, you don't have enough ferritin to kind of like portal it or carry it around the body. Now, typically if you were to test and I'm not a doctor and this is not to be misconstrued as medical advice. If you were to test and have like low iron and low ferritin, that's where you go down the anemia rabbit hole and you look into like, yeah, is this person like overtraining, over sauning, over endurance, not eating red meat, you know, vegan, vegetarian, et cetera.

56:07That's more like the low iron, low ferritin pathway. The high iron, low ferritin pathway can mean that you need more of the precursors that help the body to make ferritin. And in many cases, that would be things that would be rich in copper and methylated compounds and fat-soluble vitamins. So this would be organ meats or organ meat glandulars. They make capsules that are ground up liver and kidney and heart, etc. Bee pollen would be another example. There are companies that make copper-based supplements. A lot of times, a ferritin issue, it does not mean that you need to go out and buy a ferritin pyrophosphate supplement, which is typically a liquid or capsule-based ferritin that you take.

56:55Instead, you address the underlying root cause, which a lot of times is a copper imbalance or a copper deficiency. And that's where you would increase organ meat consumption, use bee pollen, take a copper-based supplement. Not like GHK copper peptide, but like dietary copper.

57:12Ben Greenfield:How do you not overdose on copper? Because I did that once. You can test. I mean, the only way to not overdose really is to test and you could do like a hair tissue mineral analysis to see how that'd be the easiest way. Cause it's just simple and easy and you can do it from home. Um, it's also like, it's, it's hard to overdose on copper on anything except actual copper supplements. That's why I drank out of a copper cup. Yeah. She was leaving. She was leaving all night. The amount of copper you're gonna get from like copper pipes or a copper cup or like an old rusty Moscow mule cup that's been used for 20 years at the bar, like that's way more copper than you get from a copper capsule or anything.

57:51Ben Greenfield:You do not get copper poisoning. That's a whole different follow-up. That's all I'm going to say. What happens if you get copper poisoning? You want to die. Yeah. Okay. So I need to stop the ferritin capsule and address the root problem, which is - The root problem is usually a copper imbalance or copper deficiency. Probably the best resource on this is there is a guy named Morley Robbins, and he has an adrenal mineral protocol, and a big part of it is based on the link between iron deficiency anemia, ferritin deficiency, and common copper deficiencies or copper imbalances. Let's take a quick break to talk about granola AI.

58:27These days, everyone is talking about AI, but which platforms can you trust? Which platforms are right for you? Which ones are actually useful? One of the ones that I've found that we use all the time now in the company and that we swear by is Granola AI. Have you ever been in a meeting online and then all of a sudden the meeting ends, everyone's nodding in agreement, and then two days later you realize nobody actually wrote anything down, nobody knows what's going on, or worse, you're digging through notes trying to piece together what actually happened. That's why I use Granola. It's become an incredible tool for productivity and efficiency.

58:57So what is Granola? Granola is an AI-powered notepad that makes your meeting notes useful. It captures what happens in your meetings and turns it into clean, structured notes with decisions and action items pulled out and made easy to find. Granola integrates seamlessly with how you're already working. No setup, no configuration, no friction. What it does is it transforms messy meeting calls into something you can actually reference weeks later. Your notes become searchable, organized, and actionable. I love this. It's something I wish I had in school. It's something I wish I had earlier in my career because it is such a pain trying to keep track of everything, trying to remember everything.

59:27And again, this is not just for business. This can be for any setting. It's really just a hyper-powered note-taking app that is going to give you a leg up on everyone else that's in the meeting without it. What I love about it is it saves me time. I can't stand wasting time. If you're ever in back-to-back meetings or trying to remember everything that's going on, this is an incredible tool. And before I had Granola, I was constantly backtracking, trying to figure out what I had to do, what I had to check on later. So if you're trying to get organized, check Granola out. Once you try it on the first meeting, it's hard to go without.

59:52You can try it totally free. Head to granola.ai.skinny. That's granola.ai.skinny to get your time back. Go to granola.ai.skinny and try it on your next call?

1:00:02Ben Greenfield:I have had quite the hair shedding journey. After my first baby, I noticed that there was a lot of hair on my silk pillowcase. So I decided to do something about it. Lots of scalp massage, microneedling. You know, I eat a lot of organ meat and of course supplementation. And the supplementation that I use for hair thinning or shedding or hair issues is Nutrafol. It's a proactive approach, which is so important if you want to see improved hair growth like me. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand, and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists.

1:00:38Ben Greenfield:And now the Nutrafol women's formula has been upgraded to its most advanced version yet. It's 100 % vegan, biotin free, and it comes in smaller capsule size to make your daily routine easier. Whether you've just started your hair health journey or you've been taking Nutrafol for years, this update means that you can now get their most advanced support yet. See thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair with less shedding in three to six months. Right now, Nutraful is offering our listeners$10 off your first month subscription. And free shipping when you visit Nutraful.com in our promo code SKINNYHAIR.

1:01:09Ben Greenfield:That's Nutraful.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com, promo code SKINNYHAIR. Join us in Austin for Dear Media by Day on Saturday, September 26. It's a full day designed to help you reset, refocus, and build a life that feels more like yours. We'll be sitting down with the Bumble founder, Whitney Wolfe Hurd, to talk about what comes after success, when to change direction, how to make tough decisions, evolve in public, and build something that lasts. Plus, you'll have the chance to ask us for advice on the crossroads you're facing in business, relationships, or life. Get your tickets at dearmedia.com slash events.

1:01:44Ben Greenfield:That's dearmedia.com slash events. Look what we've got here. The new mint roller. We did a new colorway. It's baby pink. it matches with your ice roller and this for me is everything when it comes to travel so how I use this is if I'm traveling or I'm running out the door and I want to use ice on my face so I keep these in my freezer or my fridge just depends on what I'm feeling and then I'll throw it in my handbag so one side is a contour which is amazing so you're going to feel nice and tight and lifted and sculpted when you use this. And then the other side, bite size, is an ice roller. So this one you could use on your neck so you can feel refreshed and de-puffed in the morning.

1:02:31Ben Greenfield:I am obsessed with this because it's compact. It's like a compact ice roller that you can just throw in your purse. If you have not tried our mint roller, go grab it now. Also, it comes in a little dust bag that we designed, which is so fun. You are all set to be tight, sculpted, and de-puffed with the Skinny Confidential Mint Roller. Go to shopskinnyconfidential.com to shop the limited colorway now. This is a random question that I know you'll know the answer to. Why is Michael's nervous system so attracted to the PEMF mat? We can't figure it out. He wants to lay on that mat all day long. I like the PEMF mat.

1:03:08Have you guys talked about PEMF on the podcast before? Do people know what it is?

1:03:11Ben Greenfield:We don't really know what it is. We just know we like it. I'm sitting on one right now. It's so funny you brought it up because I literally was just like at a clinic this afternoon getting an IV on a PMF mat. There's some that are like the one that you're on, which is great. I have that one. And it's kind of like a low intensity PMF and your body's not like people can't see like you shaking and contracting, but then they have other ones that are super powerful that you can actually like feel like done, done, done, done through your body. Pulsed electromagnetic magnetic fields are what are actually passing through your body when you're sitting on or even near to one of these mats.

1:03:47You don't even need to touch. It'll travel about three feet. It opens up ion channels in the cells and allows for better electrochemical balance, like a restoration of a negative potential inside the cell. Negative, in this case, being good, like a negative charge. So if you look at, let's say you look at an animal in rigor mortis, like an animal that's dead or an animal that's really stressed out. One of the reasons that the muscles get tight and stiff is because of a calcium influx into the cell. So calcium as a positively charged ion is going to throw off a little bit of the negative balance inside the cell and cause like a stiffening.

1:04:31So somebody, not just an animal, but like somebody who's got like a lot of cortisol and chronic stress during the day, they're getting calcium influx into the cell. And so if restoring a negative charge helps someone feel better, then part of it would be cortisol. It's interesting because this is also why you can sometimes tell if you eat meat, like if there's an off taste, sometimes it's because the animal was hunted or um stressed out or butchered or slaughtered or whatever it's kind of gross to think about but when it's stressed out and so you want an animal preferably to die in a humane scenario in which they're not super stressed out but it's that same rigor mortis inducing calcium influx that can happen to a human and the other thing this is super interesting the other thing in addition to cortisol that we are around a lot that opens up uh gated calcium channels in the cell what do you think it is?

1:05:27Wi-Fi? Exactly. Yeah. Well, Wi-Fi, EMF, EMF, and radio frequencies increase calcium influx into the cell. So now you take somebody and they're in chronic stress, they have cortisol release, and then they're around and this is like all of a sudden the tinfoil hat discussion because it's an inconvenient truth for people. My favorite, put it on. So many people like to deny that this is a reality, but there is not necessarily a biological free cost to your phone and your Wi-Fi router being on all day. And part of that non-biological free cost is the calcium influx. So back to the PMF, if you go outside barefoot, go to the beach, swim in the ocean, lay on your back in the backyard, you're getting exposed to a low-intensity PMF naturally emitted by the surface of the planet.

1:06:16Wait, hold on, hold on. I'm like dying about this conversation. I'm dying. I can't. Wait, hold on. I got to calm you down for a second.

1:06:22Ben Greenfield:you're like i like the pmf no no but this is just interesting because out of everyone in our family you do run the most stressed you are the most attractive in the family i have been telling you to turn off our wi-fi well there's also been telling you this thing in the house that's like about emf there's there's something that like is in the house it charges me up like so hard and it's it's sitting next to me and like that thing like it's dressed like i need to get on the mat But also when we go on a boat or we go out or we go anywhere near ocean, he sees... I'm always drawn to the sand and the beach.

1:06:56I like to swim in the water. I like that stuff. But no, I mean, I think electrically it makes sense. So Michael is restoring the electrical potential to his body when he gets in the boat, gets in the water, gets in the PMF mat. And that's one of the reasons that they're sold as health or stress managing devices. Okay, keep the tinfoil hat on.

1:07:17Ben Greenfield:Keep it on. I think one of the worst things you can do is charge your phone next to your head while you're sleeping. There's something that intuitively I just don't love. It depends on what you're charging it with. If you're charging it with a battery, then you're dealing with less of the DC AC surges that would be occurring if it were plugged into just a regular outlet. Is it bad to plug your phone in by your head? so are we assuming it's in airplane mode and like we're not worrying about all the other radio frequencies 5G, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth no one turns their Wi-Fi off and no one turns the airplane off so I do so first of all your phone needs to be in airplane mode and if you can put a simple affordable I think it's like 30 bucks on Amazon Wi-Fi timer on the outlet that your Wi-Fi router is plugged into to automatically turn it off whenever you're not using it like 11 or whatever and then back on at 6 a.m then you can just set it and forget it and not worry about it the way that that that we built our house is we just literally like car because we just built from the ground up so we hardwired all the walls with cat 8 metal shielded ethernet cable so we don't even have wi-fi so i don't need to worry about that but then the phone thing um so the issue if it's plugged in and we're just going to say it's an airplane mode because automatically yes for the reasons i was about earlier you don't want a radio frequency producing device a few feet from your head while you're asleep well let's say you nip that in the bud and put it in airplane mode well now is just like having something plugged in in general bad for you and that depends on the number and the power of the ac surges that are occurring in your home during a night of sleep that's where dirty electricity filters come in you can buy them from companies like green wave or stetzer or shielded healing and you can plug them into the wall and they reduce dirty electricity and AC power surges.

1:09:15And so this is the way that I have mine set up. Even though my home is very well wired with metal shielded wiring, I still have a dirty electricity filter in every room of the house. And my phone is plugged in because I like to play white noise while I'm asleep.

1:09:29Ben Greenfield:Why don't you just get a machine? I like using the white noise from my phone because my theory for this is that if it's the same noise when i'm traveling versus when i'm at home and i'm not going to take a machine with me when i travel because i travel super light and that's my phone i can replicate as close as possible like the sound of my travel environment to my home environment and so my phone's plugged in but it's plugged into a dirty electricity filter okay um so i think if the phone's in airplane mode and you have a filter uh it's fine okay yeah good to know i would love to get a wifi. Because one makes me hike across the house.

1:10:04Well, it's also like, it's like the candy on the counter that you walk past. If it's in there and you wake up at midnight because you don't have carbs with dinner.

1:10:13Ben Greenfield:I've never slept better having my phone in the other room on airplane mode. The biggest mistake if you wake up is to turn it on. It's nice to have it away. I mean, it's been a while now since we've looked at the phone in bed when we're sleeping because I think that is a problem. I mean, when you wake up and you do that, you're asleep as fuck. Also, it's not hot when I'm in my bed and someone's on their phone next to me i don't think that's hot it depends like if you guys have a show that you like to watch together i mean so i like to watch my ipad instead of the big tv before like if i want to like watch a show i'll watch it on my ipad yeah and it's a little so we don't have a tv in our bedroom but we so basically for example we've been on an office kick lately and that's my son's fault we have twin 18 year old sons and one of them saw the office on the airplane that's low frequency like dad dad check this out check this out so now my wife and i are like yeah we actually really liked.

1:10:59So now we'll like play like 10 minutes of The Office. We had Oscar on the show. Which is so tiny and so not fun that you can't watch for more than like 10 minutes. We had Oscar on the show, you know, plays Oscar and then we had Rain Wilson on the show as well. We had both. And we made him do like office skits in The Office in LA. It was like surreal. That's super fun.

1:11:18Ben Greenfield:I was going to ask one more quick question. What's the quick question? Just tell us really quickly about the house. So the theory is that your living and working environment is pretty important. And we've like alluded to that a few times on this show. You're an electrical being and things around you besides just like people and their energy can affect you. So bright overhead LED fluorescent lighting and the low level flicker and EMF that that produces that can kind of be like a slow energy drain during the day. Air pollution, which multiple studies have shown can actually reduce cognition and reduce focus if air quality is poor in a room that you're working in or living or sleeping in.

1:11:56um and then water would be the third like can you actually like go to your tap and pour clean water but then because the skin is a mouth like can you shower and clean water too and bathe in clean water and then the last piece the electricity right like how how much radio frequency and wi-fi and modern uh higher power higher frequency emfs are just rolling around your home all the time so we wanted to build a home that's basically like the equivalent of as close as we could get to a pristine himalayan mountaintop as far as like the air light the water the electricity from the ground up it took us freaking well we did it like uh 15 years ago in spokane we did this and then 15 years later there's just all these new technologies so we wanted to do it again with all of the new ways that you can protect a home and create a pristine environment so we built in Idaho and the electricity is just like dirty electricity filters and metal shielded wiring.

1:12:55And we have the building biologists go through with like the, the 18 different ghostbuster meters that measure magnetic frequencies and radio frequencies and electrical frequencies. The light is all adjusted for every room, but it's not like a Phillips hue system that requires wifi cause we don't have wifi. So you flip the light switch on once and it's red light like nighttime. and then you flip it on again, it's twilight, like what you do before bed. Then you flip it on again and it's daytime light. What's the brand that does that?

1:13:22Ben Greenfield:Do you remember? There's three brands that do it. One is Block Blue Light. One is Bond Charge. And a newer company that just started doing it that I think is doing it best is Raw, R-A. Can you do this for me, Michael? This is what I want for Christmas. It's the house. And then the last one is so you got electricity, you got air, um i'm saying electricity got water and you got light and the last one is air and a lot of people are like okay so i just need to have an air filter right and those are good and i actually get air filters sent anywhere i'm staying for an extended period of time in the room like the jasper i have a pretty big airbnb that i'm staying at because i was there with my family and some friends and they've all left but there's literally still eight jaspers at the airbnb like i'm that picky about air quality but at our home what do you do if there's a glade plug-in what do you do if you go into an air uh airbnb and there's a glade plug-in a what a glade plug-in i don't know what that is like a plug-in that's in the wall that's emitting that's that do like the artificial scent that like you know like the christmas tree oh that's never happened but definitely not i'm put in the backyard so so then for the air uh and i'll finish up the home thing you don't just want to air filter which is the actual filter you want an air scrubber to get rid of any mold and mycotoxins that might build up in the hvac unit and then you want air recirculation which pulls in fresh air from the outside and and circulates fresh air you build the so usually this would be like a local hvac organization that can do this for you and if you're just like renting you could use something like a jasper those actually are really good um but you want air recirculation air scrubbing, air filtration.

1:15:07So, um, and the last piece is like low VOC, right? Like choose painting material, cabinetry material, furniture material that doesn't leach toxins. And that's what we did. And, um, and it's, it's great. Like you feel awesome. You sleep awesome. Um, like the only disadvantages when I travel, I realize how optimized my environment is at home. Um, so it's great.

1:15:31Ben Greenfield:Tell us about the book, the documentary, all the things that you're doing. So the book, obviously, check out the book if you guys haven't checked it out before. Updated and revised edition, Boundless. It looks great. A lot in here. I mean, you could spend half your life reading this thing. But let's talk about Boundless. Good cure for insomnia. Yep. The Man Who Became Human, new documentary out. Let's talk about it. Yeah. I mean, that was the thrust of the discussion that we had at the beginning of this show. Like basically, um, I have a friend who is in the film industry and he, and I talked about this story of the modern obsession with health and fitness and biohacking and looks maxing and how empty that is.

1:16:16And also talked about the idea that, you know, I am one of those guys who has climbed that mountain and been near the top of it. Like, like not just the, were you the first Clavicleo? fitness i i don't know but but but i was doing a lot of that stuff and saw the light and shifted priorities and created happiness and fulfillment and reconnected to my family and rediscovered my faith and so the documentary is kind of like a mix of the super edgy weird stuff that goes on behind the scenes in the biohacking industry and it's rated pg-13 because there's lots of needles and blood and stem cells and all this stuff uh but then uh it like in the storyline is woven this idea that that's not the the most fulfilling mountain to climb and so it gets into a lot of the things that we know from as flawed as they are things like the blue zones like faith and family and relationships and um i didn't know that i actually didn't know this documentary was being made until my birthday.

1:17:19And, uh, the director showed it to me like in a private theater on my birthday. And this was in December. Director Caleb Applegate. Yes. Caleb Applegate. Also my best friend. Oh, your best friend. Yeah. And then executive producer, Zach Efron, is that the friend you're talking about? And can we, uh, mention that? Yeah, we can mention him. I mean, he's, he's obviously the executive producer. He was, so he's also a buddy and he was at my house when And Caleb showed me the documentary in the theater. So then Zach and Caleb and I went out to dinner and decided we wanted to actually produce it and get it out on.

1:17:54It hit streaming on Amazon and Apple on September 22nd. We're doing a worldwide tour right now, which is one of the reasons that I'm in Austin. And then it just took on a life of its own in terms of the people who gave a bunch of money to make the film tour happen to um some really big people in hollywood seeing it literally like calling me on the phone at night just like with tears in their eyes uh having been touched by the story and so i had if you would ask me like eight months ago i would have had no clue that i'd be like having a documentary or showing it or anything like that uh and it's kind of cool because my sons and my wife are traveling with me to all these premieres and they're like up there on stage doing q a's so it's kind of a family thing.

1:18:38And it feels, um, it feels really meaningful. Like the discussions that happen afterwards with people who are like, Oh, like I've like, that's my life right now is the health and fitness stuff. And after watching that, I've realized that maybe, maybe I should be, you know, calling my mom or hanging out with my kids or like a dinner party or the reason it's so impactful with you in particular is because you're for sure. One of the poster childs of the biohacking movement. I mean, you know that. And you've done all the things for such a long period of time. Like you've been doing this for two decades and longer now maybe.

1:19:14Right. And, and I think because you've seen so much and had all these experience for you to like, kind of go through all that and come to this realization, it's super important because a lot of people are getting into it and they're turned around and it's in, you know, it can be elusive. Yeah. Comma. You see, you see a lot of, let's say in the case of men, like you see a lot of like 50 year old men in this sector who have like six pack abs and great telomeres and they're like divorced and like, and don't have you know much of a connection to their wife or their kids anymore and i think that's that's sad like i i don't think that's a happy place to be yeah or you see a bunch of young guys that are getting into this but it's like it's for the wrong young guys yeah who think that that's going to be the path to fulfillment and that's a whole different discussion about rites of passage and you know us living in a society where there's a lot of you know grown-up you know boys who shave and you know the need for that um and i think also to your point like you know and listen we've had a lot of these characters on the show you like meet some of these people it's like sometimes you want to look and be like, do you enjoy life at all?

1:20:08Right? Like that, like, I think that's the other thing. It's like, if, if you're not enjoying this limited time, I mean, maybe they don't think it's a limited time, but if you're not enjoying this limited time on earth with people and your family, like what, kind of what the hell are you doing? Yeah, exactly. I mean, like, I, I mean, since I've been in Austin, I haven't gotten to bed before midnight because I've been, you know, socializing and seeing people and making friends and, you know, watched the Odyssey last night and, you know, out playing pickleball till nine and, and, you know, out there on the courts for hours.

1:20:38And yeah, I think that it's, it's not all about like being healthy and waking up and having your whoop tell you, you got the perfect sleep score, right? So yeah, have a little fun.

1:20:46Ben Greenfield:Ben Greenfield. Thank you. Your third appearance on the show. Where can everyone find you? Uh, Google is where it works because there's not a lot of Ben Greenfields out there. Uh, bengreenfieldlife.com and the documentary is at boundlessdoc.com. Thank you for coming on. Thanks for making the trip, brother.

1:21:07Thank you.