Bozoma Saint John On How To Build Unshakable Confidence, Lead with Power & Advocate For Your Worth

21:27Michael Bosstick:Put this barrier. Stay down the barrier, Taylor. These are natural? These are natural. And they sit, honey. Gotta watch the YouTube, guys. And they sit. I'm not trying to. Oh, they're sitting. They sit. They're sitting. I'm trying to just be like this right now. I'm up. I'm up. That's why I'm looking at her. Taylor is speaking. This is an A and B conversation right here. Exactly. I'm not talking to you right now. I'm going to talk to her. Okay? You can appreciate great tits. I mean, the whole time I was looking at them, I was like, wow, those are some beautiful boobs. They're so good, you know?

21:58And I like to show them up.

21:59Michael Bosstick:Now that we've addressed it, I can get rid of this note card. Just kidding. Taylor's back there beating his meat. Hilarious. If something can elevate my day and make me feel more aligned, I'm in. And I have been driving with my kids a lot in the cars to pick up, to activities, to the dentist. Our dentist is two hours away, which we'll get to in an episode soon. But when I'm driving, I always stop by Starbucks. And my specific order, because you know I'm going to give it to you, is the new iced lavender cream matcha. Oh my God, it's so good. It's like smooth, topped with this subtle lavender cold foam.

22:39It just feels chic, elevated, floral, fresh. And honestly, I feel like it's like spring in a cup. I am so in love with this. I actually text my friend the other day and I was like, you have to try it. It's also so pretty. The best part to me about Starbucks is that you can customize what you want. So I can adjust the sweetness or change the milk to really make it my own. And the sweetness I like to make very, very light. I like it to feel like refreshing. So it still tastes amazing. It just feels more refined and intentional. I recommended this drink too to some of the girls on our team and they all loved it.

23:15It's perfectly balanced and I have no notes and that's rare. You go in Starbucks and you create something that feels completely your own and personalized. And for me with Starbucks, I make it work for my routine and I customize my order. You can customize and edit as you please. That's what I love about Starbucks. So this spring, find your flavor and make Starbucks part of your ritual. And definitely check out the new iced lavender cream matcha. Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed.

23:41Michael Bosstick:Let's talk about one of our favorite platforms, and that is Wayfair. Spring is here. It's time to do some spring cleaning, and you can refresh your space and make your homework better for you with Wayfair. From furniture and decor to organized solutions and outdoor essentials, Wayfair makes it easy to find exactly what fits your style and needs. Recently, Lauren and I have been cleaning out our closets and organizing them. What I love about Wayfair is they have all these different closet systems, storage solutions, and garage organization units that can help you get everything where you can find it in the right place.

24:09Michael Bosstick:It's also a great opportunity to go through and just organize your entire space Which is going to give you more peace of mind and make you feel better living in your space Of course, they have so much more than organization They have outdoor furniture patio decor lighting bedding playroom organization bedroom updates desks They have all sorts of different things chairs all in one place and all cost-effective They make it simple to narrow down exactly what works for your style And they have all sorts of visual tools to get you the right fit for your space They also have installation and assembly services available for a truly seamless experience.

24:40Michael Bosstick:You don't have to stress out and worry about putting everything together. And thousands of five-star reviews help you shop with confidence. It's a platform you can trust. It's convenient. It's easy. And again, it's cost-effective. So check them out. Find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. Did you guys know that over almost 90 % of new parents on Bobby are combo feeding? That is crazy. So a lot of people are doing combo feeding now. Bobby is a really incredible formula.

25:16Okay. It's organic. It's European style. It's clinically crafted to mere breast milk. And in it, I've learned this again by interviewing the founder, I got to really dig deep, is a naturally occurring MFGM, DHA, and choline. and this supports the baby's brain development. And it also has a 60-40 way to case in protein blend for easy, healthy digestion. I think this brand is really thought of everything when it comes to formula. If you're going the formula route, I would definitely check them out. It's a really good one. If you're going to combo feed or you just want to do formula, I feel like this conversation should be really open.

25:54It shouldn't be taboo. And I think that this one is such a gem because every single batch of Bobby goes through 2 ,000 plus safety and quality checks before leaving their U.S. manufacturing facility. It was also named top choice by Consumer Reports after extensive testing for heavy metals and chemicals. To me as a mom, I want to know if there's a bunch of heavy metals and chemicals in my kids' food. If you want to feed with confidence, head to HiBobby.com. That's HiBobby.com to find the formula trusted by parents and loved by their babies. 700K and counting. HiBobby.com

27:01Okay, so what do you want to instill in your daughter? I'm sure you're very intentional about that. Oh, oh my God, girl. In so many ways, I've been intentional with her. I can tell you that like from the moment I became a single mother, which was terrifying to me because I, and I've been honest about this. I don't mind sharing it here, which is that I was not the one who wanted to start a family. My husband was. You know, and I found it very, very difficult in those early days. I found it almost impossible. And I was kind of like, I've been thrust into this and now I've got to raise this person.

27:41But I'm ambitious and I want a career. And, you know, like, I don't want it to slow me down. And I had people at the office who were advising me that I shouldn't have pictures of my daughter up because people would think that I wasn't committed enough to the job. I mean, it was just like.

27:55Michael Bosstick:And how deep into your executive career were you when you had your first kid? I was 32 years old, so I was about a decade in. So when Peter died, Lail was four. And I was looking at her like, what in the hell am I supposed to do now? Like, how am I supposed to raise this person by myself? Like, this was his idea. It wasn't even my idea. Yeah. And then on top of it, I felt like it would stop me from being able to do all of the things I want to do, because as a single parent, now you are wholly responsible. If I need to travel for a business trip, how am I going to do that? You know, you were just talking about leaving your daughter in Texas.

28:38I'm like, how would I do that? Who would who would watch her? There was no support. And so I changed my mindset pretty early, like with her, in that I actually told her quite bluntly. I was like, girl, I don't know how to do this. I just, I don't know. And you're going to have to tell me about things you need. She was four. And I was having this very adult conversation. I mean, we were sitting down, you know. And the ways that I made that into reality were things like opening up my calendar and actually letting her have responsibility in it. So being like, if you need me to be at the school, like for whatever, you got to tell me.

29:29And it's got to be really important because I have to do other things, other places. Like I wasn't going to be ashamed of my ambition, but I was like, you going to have to tell me and then I will put it on the thing. and I will be there. Okay? But it can't be every day. It can't even be every week. You know, we got to really make choices. And even at four, she felt the respect that I had for her, you know, and that I would respect her enough to respect her wishes. And now, 12 years later, we still behave that way. I think with children,

30:08Michael Bosstick:and maybe this, I don't know if this has been your experience, the more you explain to them the reasons why things are important, the reason why you need to do things, the more they're, I think, and again, I don't want to tell their parents how to parent, but what I've noticed as a parent myself is when you kind of try to not tell them and like, oh, and kind of like shield them and then they get upset. They get upset. They don't know. And they're so smart, you know, or things like, you know, when I got into a position where I was making a lot of money and, you know, she can have anything that she wants.

30:37I decided to switch up her birthday birthday presents, right? Because I was like, all I could see was like this mountain of gifts that she was getting for me and her aunts and friends and all that. And three months later, they were discarded. And so I was like, you know what, actually, no more birthday presents or birthday parties. And she was like, you know, obviously very upset. But I was like, here's what we're going to do. You are going to pick a place in the world that you want to go. That That will be my gift to you. You will have to present why you want to go there. And it'll have to make sense.

31:12You come up with an itinerary. And then my job is to get you there and to do the itinerary. She started doing that when she was about four also.

31:20Michael Bosstick:She'll remember that way more than the little. Oh, yeah. Oh, we've had some adventures. Oh, we've had such a good time. She's so independent. Based on everything you're saying, I can see the foresight of that being a really independent. Very much. And someone who thinks, you know, very clearly and is also intentional. Like, we don't do things just to do them. I mean, obviously, there's spontaneity. And, you know, we like to get up some days and be like, oh, we're going to go to this thing or do that thing. But also, it's like, why do you want that thing? Or why do you want to go there? Or why are you friends with that person?

31:54What's the best place you guys have gone? When she was 10, she presented that she wanted to go to Scotland. And she does like a presentation. Like, it's like, you know.

32:03Michael Bosstick:That's cool. But her rationale was because it is the only country on the planet where their national animal is the unicorn. Are unicorns real? Girl, the Scottish thinks so. I was shocked. Take me to Scotland. Yes, I want to go. So the entire itinerary was to go find the unicorns, the fairies, all kind of woodland creature. You might have to send me that itinerary for my daughter. Girl, it was so good. Oh, we had such a good time. And it's beautiful over there, right? Oh, my God. It was gorgeous. Oh, we went to the castles. We were in the forest. Are the guys hot? Girl, I wouldn't look at no men.

32:39Oh, okay. I don't know. What is that relevant to you, Lauren? I'm just wondering what the aesthetic is. I know, right? Well, maybe that will be our plan when she's a little older.

32:49Michael Bosstick:Could you imagine if I was over here and I'd be like, okay, we're going to, are the girls hot? And be like, what's going on with this guy? No, I'm just wondering for the audience's sake. They want to know. They're wondering. You know what? I bet they are. You know? They like be outside. I feel like they are probably rugged. Rugged. That's what I would assume. We like rugged. Yes. Why did you decide to open up about your fertility journey? Was that, again, a choice? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was a very big choice. Gosh, there's so many reasons. But I think the main one is that, again, sort of overcoming ideas of shame.

33:21You know, that like I've already broached the topic of widowhood and trying to tear down the shame that comes along with it. and infertility is another one. It's a really, really big one. I've had more response to this vulnerability than probably anything else I've ever talked about. So many people who've been like, thank you so much for saying this out loud. I went through this myself. I didn't tell a soul. You know, there's so much shame in it because people feel like if you're a woman, that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to just naturally get pregnant. I'm like, girl, I never had an easy pregnancy in my life.

33:58You know, it's like my mom had four daughters just like that. You know, her mom had five just like that. Like there's the women in my family give birth easily. And so I had difficult pregnancies and then found myself in a situation, you know, where it's like I didn't have a partner and I wanted more kids, but, you know, didn't want to do it without one. Finally found my person again and I want a family with him. but I am old and it doesn't come natural. And so I've got to put in the extra effort to get pregnant and there shouldn't be any shame in that. But also the people who are judgmental, who I can totally understand why people don't want to share this type of stuff.

34:46You know, folks will tell you all kinds of things like you're too old to do it. Why would you want to put your body through that? Shouldn't you get a surrogate? Why don't you adopt? I'm like, it's none of your goddamn business what I do with my body. It's a lot of opinions. But then on the flip side, the amount of people who've been like, God, thank you so much because it is difficult and it is lonely and it is sad. And on a recent episode, I talked about how we were able to fertilize two eggs. They became embryos, but then didn't make it to the blast stage. And in my confessional, I said that it felt like grief to me.

35:24It felt like we lost babies. And the amount of responses I got, people were like, I couldn't articulate it that way before. And people told me not to be sad because they weren't real kids. And I was just like, oh, my God, this is why I share it. Because it's not that I'm braver than other people. It's just that I want to get rid of all of this shame that we have around so many identities that I happen to have. And I'm like, we don't need to be ashamed of that. Has this been almost therapeutic and liberating for you to share all this? Yeah, for sure. I would think so. It's like it almost feels like refreshing for you.

35:58Yeah, because I also I also don't want to I don't believe in hiding the things in our lives that are hard. When I was leaving or when I was in in my job at Netflix right before I left, I was writing my book, my memoir. and every publisher wanted me to write the like, how to get to the corporate, the corner office in heels, you know, how to be a boss chick. And I was like, I'm not writing that book. You know, I might one day, but I'm not writing it now. I wanted to write the book about my grief and my loss because I was like, look, yes, you can have all of these things that can knock you down and make you feel like you can never make it, but you can.

36:42Like, that's the story I want you to know. I want you to know that, like, even as a leader, you can be empathetic. You can show people the hard stuff and the messy stuff and still be able to command, you know? Because it's like, as a leader, you're expected to be so fierce. Like, you're supposed to know every answer, immovable. But it's like, look, we're human too. We're dealing with little kids that get sick, and therefore you can't make it to the meeting on time. We're dealing with breakups that break your heart and make you not want to get up in the morning. We're dealing with fights with your mom that make you frustrated about the choices you've made in life.

37:22Like, we're dealing with a lot of stuff. So we should all be more open about it. I think one of the reasons I have wanted you on this show for so bad, I really have. I think I've harassed you a couple times in your DMs. But what I like about you as a viewer is that you're very comfortable and you're masculine, but you're also really comfortable and you're feminine. Yeah. And you don't see that a lot. You either see one or the other. Right. And for me, what I like watching you is I feel like you're such a boss. But then you also, in your relationship, you are feminine. Yes. At home, you're feminine.

37:56Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're all about, you're a homemaker. Yes. Oh, absolutely. I relate to that. Yes. I really related to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's refreshing. How do you balance both of those things so well? Yeah. Well, I really love it. You know, like, I love making a home. And I think, again, like, I feel like this is a recurring theme about shame. I don't know how we got here, but here we are. You know, is that, like, again, it's like if you're, you know, a boss chick and you're strong, somehow you can't be soft. You can't be vulnerable. You know, you can't do the things that, you know, are considered traditional at home because God forbid you're a feminist and you also like to bake.

38:41You know what I'm saying? Like, why can't we do both? Why can't I ask my my man if he wants something to eat and me make it like I enjoy that? And that is OK. Like and he does other things for me. It's all right. Like we can we can do both things. And so for me, there is no shame in accepting the fact that I am a homemaker. And I also happen to have had quite a few CMO jobs. I can be both of those things. I relate to it. I love it. I'm like, I'm not a trad wife, but I'm trad. Trad-ish. Trad-ish. And I love it. My home is like so important to me, but I also have a lot of ambition. Yeah. I like to have my cake and eat it too.

39:24Can we just come up with a new term? Trattish? Trattish. Trattish. I think we should do something with that. No, wait, hold on. Is it on brand? Should I pitch it to on brand? I see what you did there. I see what you did.

39:38Michael Bosstick:But I mean, I look at this and I like that I have a strong woman that's chasing her ambition and her career and all those things. But at the same time, sometimes in the bedroom or in the house, I don't want that all the time. Same way as maybe she wouldn't want me to be super feminine all the time. Right. Yeah. You are so feminine about your hair, so that's enough for me. Well, that's incredible. It's enough for me. It is good hair, though. Oh, you think so, too. It's really, really good. But no, I think, you know, there's sometimes a narrative, especially these days, pushed on men and women that you have to be one or the other.

40:12Michael Bosstick:And I think it's harmful. Oh, it's very harmful. Yeah. And I think in a relationship, people can't ignore evolution. Like we did evolve living as man and wife in a certain kind of way. I'm not saying it has to be. I also want you to go out and kill the tiger and drag it back to me. Exactly. I also want you to jump in front of me. There's some sort of assailant. Yeah. If someone breaks into the house, I'm like, Lauren, grab her. Absolutely not. You better go down there. Yeah. Go see what's going on. Yeah. And I, so I think, you know, sometimes, and again, we get these conversations pop up on the show all the time.

40:44Michael Bosstick:Yeah. And, you know, people bash the trad wife and then they bash. No, Lauren. Yeah. Yeah. But they're. Exactly. Exactly. And that's my point is that I don't I don't think there is a bashing of one or the other. I think also because I grew up in a household where my mom was a homemaker. You know, she decided to give up her career to be a wife and to raise four kids. And she was phenomenal at it, you know, and I have a lot of respect for that. I don't think she like wasted her life or like, oh, my God, she could have been the CEO of this company or she could have done that. Like, I think she is incredible at what she did.

41:18And so I have so much respect for that, that how could I see that as a bad thing in myself?

41:24Michael Bosstick:Yeah. Some people grow up and look at that and it's kind of like there's like a self-loathing. Oh, right. And I think that's harmful. Yeah. Speaking earlier on your ambition in the early days of your career, what were you chasing? Was it the financial security? Was it the title? Was it the control? What was your early ambition? What did it look like? I think my early, early, early ambition was power. You know, I wanted to be in charge. I didn't like feeling like people didn't respect me. It happened so often. That's so honest. Just like a little chip on the shoulder in the beginning. Yeah, because like so many times I was dismissed, right?

42:03Or like, you know, you're in a meeting and you have an idea and somebody talks over you. Or they ignore your idea and then somebody else says it and then they start praising that person. Oh, man. It happens so often. So I wanted power. Because I was like, I need to be the one. When I walk in the room, I need the room to shift to me.

42:23Michael Bosstick:And when did you first feel you had that power? Oh. That's a very hard question. Because I think I've had to fight for it at every stage. But you've done some things that are gnarly. Like you said, you had a podcast with Katie Couric. Yeah. You are doing a show with Jimmy Fallon. And the CMO of Netflix is not a small role. So, I mean, those are really powerful. Not to read your whole bio here, but you've been at Endeavor, IMG, UFC, Miss Universe. You've been, obviously, at Netflix, at Pepsi. Did you hang out with Dana White? No, I didn't. I did not. I like him. He's very charismatic. Yes. He was on the show.

43:02Michael Bosstick:We had fun with him. Oh, was he? We had fun with him, yeah. Yeah. No, he's so charismatic. I didn't get a chance to hang out with him. I feel like you two would be fun. Oh, my God. I'm sure, because he's a little crazy also. But I mean, when you list out all of your accomplishments, I mean, you could go on and on. And so it's interesting to hear you say that there was not like a moment where you felt. No, I think I've had feelings of power, but it is probably also what has driven my ambition to go again and again and again and again is that I haven't felt like I have achieved it. And so I'm always searching for it.

43:36And I think at some point also it switched to a combination of money and power. You know, it's like, it's why I talk to so many women about raises and promotions and, you know, how to negotiate. I did an interview once with Gayle King where I think on air she asked me how to ask, how she could ask for a raise. And I was like, girl, you better. How does someone ask for a raise? Yeah, first of all, you. Mackenzie's in the room. How does Mackenzie ask for a raise? Mackenzie, first of all, let me tell you something, okay? You understand the landscape of what everybody makes in the industry. Okay. And then you beat that by 30%.

44:13Michael Bosstick:All right, let's move on to the next segment. And that is what you asked for. That is your target. You don't back down from that. So it means that when you ask, you go another 20 % higher so that you can back down to the 30%. Mackenzie will probably get it because she's great. She's one of my favorites. But you also have to be able to back it up. Don't be a dummy out here and then be asking for a 50 % race. You see what I'm saying? Oh, sometimes people do. Oh. What's going on with that? Yeah. There's an appropriate amount. When you go too past your mark. Yes. What does that look like? Well, here's the thing is that you, that's what I'm saying.

44:45You got to be worth your salt. Right. So, and don't, don't play yourself. Okay. This takes a lot of honesty with self before you go up in there. Now, a lot of people, no, a lot of women suffer from undervaluing themselves. And so they're actually overqualified because as a leader, I can tell you the more men came into my office to ask for raises than women, hands down, probably three to one. Wow. Also, by the time the woman came to ask for a raise, she was way past her qualifications for it. I mean, men would come in there, have worked there three days, hadn't learned a goddamn thing and would be like, oh, you know, I think I deserve 25 percent more.

45:23Get your ass back in your office. What you doing in here? What are you even talking about? And so it's like I think women undervalue themselves so much. So first, it's like you really do have to have the honest, honest, honest conversation. how am I performing in this job?

45:39Michael Bosstick:And how do you get, I mean, I'm going to do this as an employer, but I'm going to have the conversation with you two ways. So if somebody comes to you and they say, listen, I feel undervalued and I want X amount, what are the things that you're telling them to be, to get them to be honest with themselves about what their real value is? And then you as the boss making the decision, what is the pushback or feedback? Yeah. I mean, well, Well, first of all, it's like if I'm the boss, right, I probably know what the job requirements are. And I understand whether or not you've met them. So first of all, you shouldn't come to me unless you believe that you are exceeding those expectations.

46:16Because if you're not, I will tell you that you're not. And then you're probably going to go home and cry. You know what I mean?

46:21Michael Bosstick:That's playing yourself right there. Yes, you are playing yourself. So it's like if you're coming to me as the employee and saying, hey, look, I feel undervalued here because I'm hitting this mark and that mark and that mark. By the way, you have to come with real examples. You can't just say I feel I'm undervalued. No, come with tactical examples of how you think you overdelivered. And it can't be one time. It can't be two times. It can't be three times. It has to be consistent over time. And then you can come and say, hey, look, I'm overperforming here. I keep doing the thing that you told me to do.

46:52and I add 15 % effort to it. I am beating every key performance indicator you've said. So I believe I deserve a raise.

47:02Michael Bosstick:What if someone comes to you and they say, I've been here for two years. And you probably did nothing. Well, I - What you're saying is that being somewhere for two years doesn't equate to a raise. No, absolutely. Tenure does not mean you get paid more. So you have to add extra value to the company to get the raise. Got it. So impact over tenure. Kim Kardashian got shit for saying you got to work your, like, right. Everyone said, yeah. She said people don't want to work. And I think as some. I mean, I get what she's saying. Not everybody, but I got what she's saying. Yeah. Well, there was a moment in time where like the, you know, I think people were not being honest with themselves.

47:41No, they were not requests for coaching.

47:42Michael Bosstick:And I, you know, as somebody who's had to work for a long time and, you know, build things and use yourself. I think the hardest conversations are when people come and say like, I'm working, and it's what you're saying. I've been here, but there's no examples. And I put in the time. And what I have to go back and say, and I'm sure you've had is, well, give me an example of how you're contributing in a way that - Yes, show me how you're making impact above and beyond the job qualifications. Doing the job alone is not enough to get a raise. It really is not. You have to exceed the expectations. So I'm like, you're doing the job description.

48:16Congratulations, you get a paycheck. That's because that's what you're hired for. You want a bigger paycheck? You got to do bigger.

48:21Michael Bosstick:Branch Basics, I don't know what I would do, what we would do without this company. We have been talking for years, close to a decade now, or actually it's been a decade, about health and wellness and how to take care of ourselves. What if I were to tell you that the way you're cleaning your home could also potentially be harming you? Well, that's if you're using toxic chemical hormone-disrupting cleaning supplies, which many people are. But with Branch Basics, you don't have to worry about it Because Branch Basics is made from plant and mineral-based ingredients, and Branch Basics is human-safe and fragrance-free, making it perfect for families, especially those with babies, kids, or pets, the ones that are crawling and closest to the floor.

48:56Michael Bosstick:And ever since we had the founder of Branch Basics on this show and learned that there's a healthier alternative for cleaning the home, we have not looked back. It is such a no-brainer to make the swap. You get the same clean house, the same clean environment, but without all of these toxic, harmful chemicals that we're learning so much about, so you can sleep well at night knowing you're doing right for yourself and your family. The Branch Basics refill model makes it even easier to keep your home clean year round. Once you run out, all you need to restock is the concentrate available at Target, Amazon, and BranchBasics.com, making it more convenient than ever to have human safe cleaning products.

49:26Michael Bosstick:And here's the good news. Branch Basics is now available everywhere you shop at Target, Target.com, Amazon, and of course, BranchBasics.com. Tossing the toxins has never been more convenient. And for anyone grabbing the premium starter kit, you can still get 15 % off at BranchBasics.com with our code SKINNY15. Just use code SKINNY15 for 15 % off the premium starter kit at branchbasics.com. After you purchase, when they ask where you heard about them, please make sure to mention our show. Again, that's branchbasics.com, promo code SKINNY15. Every single Friday night, my family and I do family movie night.

49:59And we always do popcorn. And in our popcorn, always, like it's a tradition at this point, we do milk chocolate gems. And since we do this every single week, I like to be thoughtful about it. So enter Unreal. Unreal. Unreal is on a mission to un-junk the world, starting with chocolate. And their chocolate is so good. I'm telling you, these milk chocolate gems are such a hit in my house. We put them in popcorn. We add sea salt on top of them. We've made cookies. We put them in Rice Krispie treats. We even will like, I'll put some in my kids' lunch every day. And I don't have to worry about it because this brand is really thought of everything.

50:34There's zero artificial preservatives, zero artificial flavors, zero artificial colors, and almost all their products are vegan too. They're gluten-free, non-GMO, and kosher. So what my kids and I like to do is, yes, the popcorn situation, but we also like to put their chocolate. They have like a peanut butter cup that's so delicious. I like the red one. It's so, so good. You can't go wrong. And we put them in the freezer and they're like, just melt in your mouth. And the cool thing about this brand is they've made everything taste so delicious. My whole family is the biggest fan of Unreal. You can find Unreal products anywhere cravings hit, including at Whole Foods, Target, Costco, and any grocery stores.

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51:24Michael Bosstick:Let's talk about yet another way to take care of yourself and your family and make sure that you're not harming your body, your health, or the ones you love. More people are paying attention to what their home products are made with. So many of these products contain PFAS, PTFE, and PFOAs, and these forever chemicals are causing all sorts of health complications. More and more data and research is coming out about this stuff. It's clear all we have to do is look at the health trend in this country. This is why Lauren and I switched all of our cookware, all of our cooking supplies, and all of our food storage to Caraway.

51:52Michael Bosstick:We had the founder of Caraway on this podcast talking all about the ways that they're creating a healthier home by creating products that are actually good for you and that do not have these chemicals that leach into our food and then ultimately into our bodies. Because you use your cookware every day and it should make life easier, not harder. We love all their products. Some of the standout stars are their butcher blocks. They're made of thick premium wood, so you don't have to worry about microplastics getting into your body and into your food. They also make these glass containers that we store all of our food in, so you're not seeping plastic into your food.

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52:49Michael Bosstick:It can save you up to$230 versus buying the items individually. Plus, if you visit carawayhome.com slash skinnypod10, you can take an additional 10 % off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive for our listeners. So visit carawayhome.com slash skinnypod10 or use code skinnypod10 at checkout. Caraway, non-toxic kitchenware made modern. The Skinny Confidential is doing its five-year anniversary sale 30 % off site-wide. Here's what I would get. I would definitely get our ice roller. It's reimagined. It's beautiful. It's like baby pink. It has a little navy detail. I use it every single morning to de-puff.

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53:53Michael Bosstick:So for you personally, as you started to map your career, what did those conversations typically look like for your employers? Well, it was, I think it's a little, it was a little different for me because I found that I couldn't necessarily get big raises the way I wanted them. Like I said, But at some point, my ambition changed from just power to also money. I wanted exponential raises. And I couldn't get it at the places I were. So I had to quit and get another job. That's a good segment. I had one thing on our notes that I wanted to talk to you about. You've been at a lot of places, but you've kept a really good reputation.

54:32Michael Bosstick:And people speak very highly of you and your career from what we've learned. How have you maintained that? Because sometimes people leave a job in a messy way and they burn bridges. and it seems like you've been able to kind of move throughout your career without doing that. Yeah, well, I'll tell you this. I think one of the biggest examples of the fact that I do have a good reputation is that I haven't used a resume in about 15 years. You know, it's like nobody asked me for that. Like when, yeah, when Ted Sarando said, Netflix called and said, hey, you know, we were thinking about changing our CMO and we would like, he didn't say, can I see your resume?

55:08You know what I'm saying? was that he had heard and seen the impact I'd had at Endeavor with Ari Emanuel and was like, hey, we actually need your talent here. And for me, it's always been about proving the fact that my value is more than whatever the company has asked me to do. So I have embodied what I am telling people to do. It's like if the job is to come in and change the way people use the word Uber, I'm going to come and make it a colloquialism. With all the powerful people that you've worked with, who has had the most impact on you? Who are the ones where you're like, damn, that person taught me ABCD?

55:50I think without Spike Lee, I don't know that I would have known early on how impactful I am. You know, so Spike was my first boss. I was an assistant at his ad agency in New York City. and I was taking a break between undergraduate school and medical school because I'd taken MCAT. I was going to become a doctor. And I know. And I went to New York and my parents were not going to fund this. So I had to get a job. I was Spike Lee's assistant and he was pitching the PepsiCo business through his advertising agency because he was in between like his movie director roles. he was shooting commercials.

56:31So he was pitching PepsiCo as a client and asked around the office, you know, who should be the, you know, main person? Who should be the spokesperson? And people were going up on Billboard charts and trying to find, you know, the hottest actress and this and that. And I had seen Carmen, the hip opera on MTV. It was a TV movie starring Beyonce Knowles and Mackay Pfeiffer. and Beyonce at the time was coming out of Destiny's Child. She wants to be a solo act and an actress. And she was getting panned. I mean, people were like, she's never going to make it. Like, you know, the only successful solo artist coming out of Girl Group, Diana Ross.

57:14That's true. That is it. The only person. And so she was getting hammered. And I saw this movie and I was like, holy shit. Like, I loved it. And I loved her in it. And so when Spike was asking around, I said, I saw this TV movie starring Beyonce Knowles. And people were snickering and laughing, you know, and just like, she's the assistant. She doesn't even know her better. And Spike was like, I'm going to talk to her. And he had a meeting with her and decided she was the one. And if not for that moment, I don't think I would have understood that tenure doesn't equate your power. you know that i was 23 years old and i gave him the idea to use her that's a good story girl that's a good story i feel like we could talk to you

58:06Michael Bosstick:we could talk to you for hours and you got to come back at some point i know well now that i know you had wanted me here i'm like i'll come back whenever you want well wait we have to stop well because she's gonna she's gotta stop she's gonna she's got she's got we have a million questions will you come back i will actually come back honestly i would love that we didn't even tell part two we didn't even get into uber and apple because i got some stories boy but anyways will you come back yes actually i will uh i would love to come back tell us you have to tell us so before you go you have to tell us why you chose to join housewives oh yes because that was strategic i think and i want to know why and then what's going on with on brand with jimmy fallon yes okay Okay.

58:46So here's the thing. When I left Netflix, it was really, really tough. Again, I think people look at my resume and just like, oh, my God, I'll just teach it. And I'm like, no, people booed me at every single move. I promise you they were not supportive. And I know it's hard to believe, but it is so true, because if if we had time, I would get into the details of like what was happening at the time and why people were booing me moving into a new job. So I was leaving Netflix. the decision was because I was writing my book and it was so heavy. And I knew that I couldn't do that and also be the global chief marketing officer of Netflix.

59:21It was a huge job and I needed all my energy and attention, but I really want to write this book. And the day that Ted and I had our meeting and decided that I would leave, I cried. It was so scary. But I left, I wrote my book, I published it. And then I was sitting there in my house after it was published and I was like, oh, shit. Now what? Like there's nothing. I need another job. So I went out on the market, you know, got interviews, came down to, you know, a last interview where it's like I'd already cleared everybody. I just need to meet the board. The offer was already in my inbox and my lawyers.

1:00:00I was sitting there the next day. I take a flight the next day to go meet the board and I could not do it. I was like, I don't think I want to go back into this world. I've been out now a year. And while it felt like sabbatical, I was like, I don't think I want to do it. And again, I cried and it was so scary because I'm a single mom. I take care of my parents. I have three homes. I need money. You know what I'm saying? You have good taste. The home's all dialed out. Look, look. Okay? I know. It takes money to do these things. The monthly net's not going away. And I got lots of stock, but damn.

1:00:42So I was sitting there and thinking, I can't go back. I don't want to go back. But I was so scared not to. But I knew I really couldn't take the job. And so I declined even before going to meet the board, much to my mother's anger. That's another story for another time. Yeah, next time you come back, you can tell that story. And I was sitting in my home for, I would say, like three months, you know, a little depressed considering the stupid decision I'd made to turn down that job, figuring out like, is it like embarrassing for me to go back out and say, hey, look, anybody else want to see him?

1:01:23you know and i got a email and it was from the bravo executives and they said you know we've been trying to get you for many years but never able to because you always had jobs and now we hear that you are out and you are potentially not going back so would you consider coming on the show and i was like absolutely not because you couldn't take the job when you were running

1:01:51Michael Bosstick:Netflix. No, I couldn't have done the show then. No. And matter of fact, the funny thing is, I thought they wanted me to become the CMO of Bravo. Like, I didn't think they wanted me on the damn show. You know, like, I thought they were calling me for like a executive job. Did you realize it was the show? Were you excited? I was nervous. Yeah. Because I thought, you know what? Like, I'm a champion of women. I love being able to empower them. I don't want to go on TV and fight with people. You know, but my thought after I sat with it for some time was that like, but this narrative doesn't have to be.

1:02:22It doesn't have to be this. You're sort of the voice of reason. Right. It's not, I don't, when I look at you on the show, I'm not like, oh, she's causing fights. No. You keep it. I don't want to do that. You keep it lively and we get the dynamics. Yes, yes, yes. But you're kind of the voice of reason. I don't want to fight with women on TV. I feel like there's kind of a, like with the audience where you're going. Yeah, because I'm like, girl, do you see what's going on? That's what I'm saying to people. because the thing is, and I recently did a video about this where I was talking about conflict, right?

1:02:51And I was like, you know what? The thing for me that was most pressing when I was thinking about joining the show was I was like, look, women of this age are so damn interesting, but we don't get a chance to really see them because Hollywood loves to show us, you know, women in their teens and 20s, maybe 30s. But by the time you are in your 40s or 50s, let me tell you it's a very interesting time you're raising kids you got aging parents you've got dynamics in your marriage maybe you're coming out of it maybe you're getting into your third one you know like there's so much going on before you get to talk about your relationship with your girlfriends some of whom you've known a long time some of whom you're making new friends who makes new friends

1:03:37Michael Bosstick:if you actually think about it this age range is much more your team's gonna kick in the door yeah yeah that's right but we're gonna keep going because like there's there's so much that like is happening at this time and so when i thought about that that's actually what convinced me to go on the show like i was like i want to show that like i had and at the time there was so much happening in my life and i'm like but i want to see stories like this too and where are the baddies at we're the ones who have a corporate career who made their money who didn't marry into it we're the ones who are like you know like falling in love again but also like as as a practitioner we on Beverly Hills specifically where is the where we want we needed that energy yes yes you know what I mean yes yes and that is why just full circle here when I said that like you should walk into room or into matter and know that your molecule changes it that's what I am doing mic drop bam We could talk to you for hours now.

1:04:42Come back on the show. Where can we go watch On Brand with Jimmy Fallon? On Brand with Jimmy Fallon is so great. Just a real quick story on that. The people who poo-pooed me for joining Housewives who were like, but you're in the Marketing Hall of Fame. How dare you go and, you know, ruin your reputation? Well, Nancy, who is Jimmy's wife, is a big fan of Beverly Hills. And she saw the very first episode that I was on. Jimmy, unbeknownst to me, had already sold the show to NBC and was trying to find a co-host and he couldn't find one. For a year, he was looking and interviewing a bunch of CMOs but couldn't find the magic between someone who has the chops and also is good on TV.

1:05:21And then they saw me. And that is how Jimmy and I got together. Molecule that entered the on-brand with Jimmy Fallon. Thank you for coming on the show. You really can have that. Thank you for doing this. That was fun.