Dr. Autumn Smith On Healing Naturally, Eating Well, & What Actually Matters In Your Food

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. she's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire fantastic and he's a serial entrepreneur a very smart cookie and now lauren evarts and michael bostic are bringing you along for the ride get ready for some major realness welcome to the skinny confidential him and her if you are looking to find the highest quality meat if you are looking to learn more about processed meat, if you want to know more about reading labels and the truth about organ meat, then you have to listen to this episode. Dr. Autumn Smith is back. She is the co-founder of Paleo Valley and Wild Pastures.

0:43I am passionate about this brand because this is one of my favorite brands when it comes to protein. I am obsessed with how they have a chocolate bone broth protein. It's actually genius. I asked her all the questions that you're dying to know about how to find high quality meat, mislabeling labels, and the truth behind the meat industry. And let me tell you, Dr. Autumn knows her stuff. You're going to see that. Let's welcome Dr. Autumn to the show. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. I have a conundrum. I am very passionate. This shouldn't surprise anyone about what I feed my children.

1:25I try to be really intentional. I do not try to be perfect. I'm 80-20. I let them have the birthday cake and we have all the sweet things in our house. We just try to do swaps. But when it comes to what I'm feeding them on a day-to-day basis every single day, I try to be really thoughtful because they're eating it every day. And every single day, we pack a sandwich in their lunch and the bread is fresh sourdough and we'll do like avocado mayo or sometimes regular and mustard and we do turkey or ham. And so I'm on Instagram the other day and I see this thing come up that the brand of ham and turkey that I'm giving them every single day is worse than cigarettes.

2:06The guy is saying this is the worst meat to give your children. There's microplastics in it. He's like throwing it away. So dramatic. What kind of cigarettes is they smoking? Anyways, so this is the conundrum and I think you're the perfect person to answer this. if you want to make a sandwich for your children where would you get your meat oh you're the one to ask i am i mean i have meat companies right so but i'd also look for like local i think local meat when you can get close to your food i think that's as good as it gets and if you could do like a grass-fed grass-finished beef or pasture-raised like truly pastured that's clean that's like off the farm like that that's where you get it right okay but what if like it's just it's it's like deli meat where do i get like i can't go like a local butcher yeah you can and i hope that becomes a thing right i just think like we have this illusion of choice right when we go to a grocery store but the truth is like in the meat market there's like massive consolidation so 85 of the beef market for example owned by four different companies and they have many different companies under their umbrella but like a lot of them are doing 90 of what you find in the grocery stores factory farmed.

3:18You know, some of them have different labels that make you feel a little warm and fuzzy, but a lot of them are actually still factory farmed and kind of just dressed up with labels. So I hope one day we see a system where we get to know people again in our community, those in our bio region. But if you have to go to Whole Foods, go to Sprouts, you know, get the best you can do. A lot of times we can talk about this grass fed doesn't always mean grass finished, right? It doesn't necessarily mean no antibiotics. You know, the labels, it's really misleading and it's kind of hard to figure out. And pastures, pasture raised is kind of not defined either, right?

3:51And you saw like Vital Farms just kind of got in trouble. Did you hear about that? We all want to talk to you about that. With the eggs. Yeah. And by the way, everyone, this is your second time on the show. You were on about two years ago. Everybody's got to go back and check that one out. But this is a perfect time to talk about the Vital Farms controversy. Which we will, but I just want to know my to-do list. My to-do list is I go to a butcher, a local butcher or at Whole Foods, and I go to the counter and I say, I'm looking for ham. Is ham okay? They're saying ham isn't good now. You know, I see I there's so much nuance there, right?

4:20They put all these processed meats into one bucket. It depends on how the meat is processed, right? If it's like a traditionally fermented or cured ham, that's different than something that's been highly processed and has all of these artificial additives and is older and is raised on a factory farm. So you can't really say all processed meat is the same. I just did a whole podcast about this. Like our beef sticks, they're fermented, right? That's different than a Slim Jim. right, that has gluten and sugar and maybe encapsulated citric acid. I'm not sure how they're preserving it exactly. But no, I mean, I think you get as close as you can.

4:53Go to the butcher. What do you have that's grass-fed and grass-finished? How is your ham prepared? Is it a traditional preparation? I think you just got to ask the questions. I wish I could give you more of a simple answer. And that's kind of why I'm here. And that's why I felt kind of called to create the products that gave people those alternatives and options easily. But it isn't always easy. What happened with Vital Farms? Every single person was buying them. We all thought we were having grass fed, grass finished, da-da-da-da-da-da, all the fucking, I mean, it's like a scroll. It's like pasture raised, organic, da-da-da-da-da-da.

5:27We thought it was all the things. And then we come to find out it's not. What was your opinion on that? Well, it's funny. I actually went to the lunch the other day with the CEO of Vital Farms, and he is deeply passionate about the humane, the humane treatment of animals. And I think it is, I have a very nuanced take because what I studied for my dissertation is exactly this, like the omega-6 to 3 ratio in foods, right? So what they got called out for was linoleic acid. Are you guys familiar with, it's an omega-6 fatty acid, right? And a lot of people believe it's toxic by definition, but when you heat it, it is.

5:59When you eat too much of it, I think that it can become more pro-inflammatory, right? It leads to the production of compounds that are pro-inflammatory, but it's also an essential nutrient, right? So what people I think are surprised by is the amount of linoleic. It's kind of nerdy, but when they're not out on pasture a lot, which maybe they aren't. I don't know how often they're going out on pasture or what percentage of their diet is coming from corn and soy. That's the problem. People I think were surprised by how much of the diet of these animals were coming from corn and soy, and that is the lever that makes that linoleic acid level higher.

6:33Are you eating Vital Farms? You know what? We actually get our eggs from Angel Acres. And are you familiar with that company? And they're actually the company that I think did the, you know, put the testing out there. They're really clued into this omega six to three balance. And again, my dissertation was on that. And so I've been really kind of thinking about it a lot. And so I, I'm not, I, it's not that I wouldn't. And I think we have to like take dietary context into consideration. So do you think people are maybe overreacting because the, what I mean, I'm not following the egg controversy that closely.

7:03I gotta be honest. I gotta be honest. I'm like Inspector Gadget. But you know, I see people are passionate about it and I, you know, see some of the headlines. Like, is it, in your opinion, from a scale one to 10, how bad this revelation was? Is this? Yeah. I'm not surprised by it because I'm close to this. I know that chickens actually do need grains. They do eat grains. Even the chickens that we raise, they eat grains. It's kind of how often are they on pasture, right? I think a lot of people think, oh, these are pastured eggs, so they must be out on pasture all the time. That's just not true.

7:35And unfortunately, I think that they have more grain and soy or corn and soy in their diet. That's the one that really moves that balance up. So for me, I'm not that surprised. I was like a five kind of surprised. I don't think linoleic acid is necessarily toxic on its own. I think because of a lot of seed oils and because we've changed the way that we raise our animals. Animals don't need a lot of corn and soy all the time, but we've done that. We've changed the way that we raise our animals. And so now all of their omega balances are very high. And so I do think repeated consumption of all your animal products like that, in addition to seed oils, I think that's probably not a great thing.

8:10But is like one egg in isolation, you know, is going to be send you over the edge? Is it toxic? I don't think so. Yeah. My favorite is like the people that are screaming about the eggs and then they just got done with like a three-day drinking bender. I'm like, the egg's going to be, it's not going to hurt you. And also we grew up in the nineties. And when I start to think of some of the snacks that we had, I was like, we made it through that. The egg will be, you know, it'll be fine. Yeah. And it's like, there's so many nutrients in an egg. Like it's way better than a donut. Like, and they're saying that there's the linoleic acid level is comparable to canola oil.

8:39But this is what I would say to you. I agree with you. And I'm all about having McDonald's and like, like on a special occasion, I'm all about it. But here's what annoys me specifically is when I'm doing something every single day. Yeah. that's where I want to look into it I don't care if I have eggs that aren't cage-free past whatever the fuck on or on a random Tuesday when I'm out to lunch what I care about is it's in my house every single day and my kids are eating it and you're eating it and I'm eating it every single day that's where I think it becomes problematic no no I get it it's just hard for me as a general person to ever imagine a world where I would be spending time screaming about eggs.

9:24But then again, that's just me. To each it sounds. Yeah. And like you said, I think it is important when it's your staples. I think it's something you need to consider thoughtfully for sure. But also if you have it once in a while, is it going to be the end of the world? I leave it to more passionate people too. No, he leaves it to me to handle and then he's like, oh, my wife like gets the best and he just sits around. I think what I, I think what the most the people want to know and where I try to like my life is okay if it's not the just tell me what egg it is or if it's not the butter you were yelling about I just want to know what it's why we talk to people like tell me okay is it what is it angel farms what is it like to be a man where things just appear like the best water appears and your magnesium appears every single month and all of a sudden new toothbrushes and toothpaste what I really actually want to know what that's like to have things just appear.

10:16It's pretty nice, but I will say it's also the reverse where things just randomly disappear. Well, things are going to disappear. It's all about. It's a give and a take. I'm a constant at it. You better believe it. What is a red flag when it comes to meat for you where you're like, no way? Oh, yeah. I mean, definitely any sort of antibiotic use. I think that is a huge issue. And I think that's really rampant. Also, I really prefer animals that are pasture So this is what my dissertation was about. And meat is like a photograph of the land. Like with our dissertation, we studied, you know, on a nutrition label, you see like 13 nutrients that we've traditionally tracked.

10:52But with this new technology called metabolomics, they're actually able to look at like 30 ,000 nutrients. So there's 30 ,000 compounds in beef. And many of them change dramatically based on what that animal is consuming, what kind of plants it was exposed to, the health of the soil, and on and on. I like the more diversity in the pasture we found, like the more omega-3 fatty acids, even the longer time that they are able to graze. So for me, I like to see animals in their native pasture, like living their life happily. So anything with hormones, antibiotics, or that's just in a factory farm eating grain and soy, that's a red flag for me.

11:26In your opinion, what are the most nutrient-dense foods the majority of the population should focus on? Oh, gosh. I think, see, and I think meat's been demonized. So meat is definitely, and I know you guys are big advocates of that too. So beef, but definitely organ meats as well. Liver, heart, kidney. She's all about it. I'm, I'm, I'm on the, I'll have the liver. The heart starts to scare me a little bit. But the heart's like the gateway. I know how to cook a heart. Don't you forget that? No, you don't. Sondra helps me. No, you don't. No, yeah. Our nanny helps us now. Sondra knows how to cook a heart with me.

11:56It's milder, right? And it has all that cocu ten. Do you feel that energy? when you, I mean, I don't know. I feel the energy of liver immediately. When you eat liver, you feel energy right away. I don't know if it's the iron. You feel it. Do you have to be careful with how much of each of these organs you consume? Like and how frequently? Oh yeah. You don't want to eat it every day, right? You don't want to eat it. There's a massive amount of vitamin A, like inactive form, retinol, right? So yes, you want to have, I'd say like two, three ounce servings every single week, three to four ounce servings.

12:25So when people hear you say organ meat and they're like, oh, I would never touch that. Like maybe describe, you mentioned CoQ10, but what are some of the direct benefits you think men and women will notice? Well, just like that was like, I did like Lauren, I did a happy dance the first time. I was like, wow, something in that my body really needed. And in 1934, some scientists won a Nobel prize for the finding that beef liver actually cured pernicious anemia. And you see so many people worldwide have iron regulation issues. And it's not just because they don't get enough iron, right? It's the copper, it's the B12, it's the vitamin A, It's the synergistic kind of presentation of the nutrients that actually makes it very effective.

13:00That's why bodybuilders, endurance athletes, my brother's been having like liver shakes for decades and he used to do marathons. He's going to say Lauren is right. Just put it on your grave, Michael. You're going to come to me and say, can I have some of your liver? No, no. I'm in the liver and organ meat camp, but I think a lot of people that listen and watch are skeptical. especially there's a new wave of people that have either maybe been vegetarian or been practicing veganism that are now starting to be that are moving towards trying and introducing meat and I think the first thing is like okay maybe I'll have a burger or steak the jump to eating liver and heart is a big jump for a lot of people.

13:35This is what I'll say have a bite and see how you feel because you're going to feel it right away. Yeah so that's what I'm trying to get to is explaining to maybe those individuals that are hesitant like because here's the other thing what we talk on the show all the time about autoimmune disorders or bloating or gut issues. And we've also had so many stories of people coming on and start talking about incorporating these things in their diet and ridding themselves of those ailments. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I go for the capsules. My husband tried to sneak it in every which way all the organ meats, like tripe in a hamburger.

14:01I was like, no, this just doesn't work for me. And so you can definitely do the capsules. But I think, to be fair, there was research that looked at the nutrients most people are deficient in, right? B12, vitamin A, calcium, zinc, iron, and the foods that had the highest levels of those nutrients, which I think is a specific concern for vegan and vegetarian people in particular. And it's liver, it's heart, it's kidney, it's like giblets, it's like all those odd bits. So if you want to eat like the least meat possible or just make it, you know, and get the most bang for your buck, I think organs are the way to do that.

14:33And if you can do it in capsule form, you can start with tongue, you can start with heart, you can start with chicken liver, much more mild chicken liver is you guys do a capsule we do okay oh i gotta try your capsule you do that's a good place to start this is what this is what happened to me intuitively i was pregnant with my first born and i was i went to bel campo if you know you know in la they're not open anymore and there was liver on the menu and there was tongue too i think and i was like drawn to it which i had never had it before in my life. And they brought it and I tried it. And intuitively, I felt so good from it.

15:13And I thought I was like, is it because I'm pregnant and I needed certain things? I feel like there was gaps and it filled in the gaps of the nutrients that I needed. 100%. Is that B12? Is that iron, copper, vitamin A? I mean, vitamin A is so important. And it's like the richest natural source of vitamin A and B12 on the planet is liver specifically. And like I said, iron, it's really hard to come by. And it's actually an anti-aging food. I don't know if you've heard, there's a trial that gave, I think it was three servings of liver, actually three times a week, in addition to other things like a lot of leafy greens.

15:47And it was a whole dietary protocol, but they were actually able to reverse biological aging because of its ability to donate methyl groups, essentially. Like liver is a great methyl donor and can positively affect gene expression. So I think liver organs should be in everyone's diet. If you've done a Jager bomb before, you can do a little liver. Or what's it called? Jager bombs. Oh yeah. Like the shots. Sometimes I think you're the coolest. And then sometimes I'm like, what a dork. What do you call it? A Jager bomb. Yeah, that is what it's called. If you can drink a Jager bomb, you can have a bite of liver.

16:21I don't want to hear you say Jager bomb anymore. I love that. That took me back to my LA days. I mean, I don't think it's that gross compared to that. No, no. And the way you feel will just, it will just be, and especially because it's so rampant, micronutrient deficiency. Like we all, 90 % of us have these deficiencies that are like significantly reducing the quality of our life, even if we don't know it, right? Like brittle nails and hair and skin, dull skin, and just like catching every cold that goes around, feeling tired. That's like nutrient deficiency. So why are most people deficient in vitamin A?

16:53Vitamin A. Or honestly, most people. Why are many people deficient in vitamin A? I think a lot of it is because we've heard this, that we can just eat carrots and sweet potatoes and get enough vitamin A. But the vitamin A in that is 12 times, you have to have 12 times more of that type of vitamin A than you do the retinol, the preformed vitamin A that comes in animal products. And I think people are afraid of animal products. I mean, I think we've had them demonized for so long, maybe like not so much today, but like historically, I think that's a real issue. So this is random, but again, you're the perfect person to ask.

17:23I recently learned, and tell me if I'm wrong, that four of the top cheeses that we all eat, like the most famous cheeses, the big brands, are controlled by the pharmaceutical industry. Is this true? That's a good question. You don't know. I'm not actually sure. But it doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me. There's some really interesting linkages in these big food corporations in the supplement world. And it wouldn't surprise me, but I cannot confirm. Okay. How do you personally pick out your cheese and what do you look for? You know, I want grass fed, grass finished and raw. That's what we get. We can get that down at Sprouts if you're going to do the store.

18:03We also, we live in Colorado. so we've got farms like literally so nice to drive down that we get like they've invited my son to go milk their cow like 6 a.m i mean just like we're we have the luxury of being really close to our food but i would do grass-fed grass-finished and why does it have to be grass-fed and grass-finished yeah because the this is the omega balance thing so it's and what my research looked at is the fatty acid profile of meat specifically and it changes so more omega-3s less omega-6 fatty acids right conjugated linoleic acid i don't know if you've heard of that but it's yeah it's cardiovascular protective maybe anti-obesity effects and so what that animal eats is is ending up in its tissue in in its cheese and like i said you can actually have plant compounds in cheese and in meat that i think can positively impact health and there's one researcher named dr fred provenza looks at like satiety like are we not feeling like full from our meat because all of these phytonutrients have been kind of bred out or because we're only having corn and soy in their feed so we could get you know thousands of plant compounds plus more omega-3s less omega-6s there's even research and this wasn't in cheese but the saturated fatty acid profile changes in positive ways so in mineral profile changes.

19:23I mean, vitamins, I mean, it's just, yeah. So our research specifically looked at beef, but I do know that dairy can also change dramatically based on the way the animal's fed. And I think those, like you said, those daily decisions, those matter, right? More omega-3s. 90 ,000 people die every single year from omega-3 fatty acid deficiency. And so if you're eating something on a daily basis and you can get like three times the omega-3s, which is what we found in our research, if they're, you know, fed grass their whole life rather than grain. I think that that really adds up and that matters. You know, we recently took our kids to a dentist that we love.

19:56She's so fabulous. And she said, it's so important that your kids are chewing food. What have you seen with people who are just giving their baby baby food or her actually getting the baby to chew when it comes to meat? Oh, I haven't seen a lot. I mean, I don't work with a lot of babies, but I do imagine that they'd be far better nourished to have a lot of animal products is the first thing we gave our son. And I do see, unfortunately, many children who are not nourished, who are eating just baby foods and not incorporating animal products. Egg yolk was the first food we gave our son. And then when we eventually, he was kind of rejecting and then we went into bone broths and eventually brought in meats.

20:36And for him, he's been very, very healthy. But when you did meats, what did you do? Just selfishly, I want to know. Yeah, we would just kind of like we would cook them down and then sometimes even puree them. But we would put like It seemed like that bone broth for some reason really prepared his digestive tract. Because I remember earlier it was kind of dicey whether or not we could get him to take a food. But we started giving him bone broth on a daily basis. In a bottle? No, sometimes just like a little spoon. It wouldn't be a ton. He's just like every day, a few times a day, we would give him a little bone broth.

21:06And they would kind of puree the meats in the bone broth. And then kind of give it to him just a little bit at a time. This is getting used to it in his gut. He did, yeah. And he was a very, very, very vibrant little boy. what I do with your meat sticks everyone needs to try this is you cut them up oh yeah and they just eat them like a little bite well they ask for meat sticks now they just say give me a meat stick they ask it's so great well that's a cool thing too is because they're softer right because they are fermented and so they have like a tenderness and it is they're seasoned really well and even if you do the teriyaki that's like the kid's favorite because it has a little bit of honey so that that was always maverick and then I also did a trick I don't know if I told you this last time it's called chocolate water no yeah so chocolate water tell me do you want some chocolate water chocolate water is your chocolate bone broth protein in a little bit of raw milk with a little bit of a little bit of water frothed up and they think they're having a chocolate shake and they ask for it every day and it's 30 20 grams of protein and then i'll do two scoops and we like it so much that I get it delivered to hotels.

22:16I told you off air, which I think is amazing. Yeah. It's the thing I never miss a day of either with that chocolate bone broth. It's really good. Life changing for me. Also, when you're not starving, like sometimes I get home from work and I just maybe had some food and I just have a little bit of your chocolate bone broth powder in water. It's so good. Which by the way, and I want to talk to you, I want to talk about glycine in a second, but you know, I've weight lifted throughout my life. And a lot of the guys in the gym that weightlift, it's like a secret that everybody knows is if you get hungry, you get a craving late at night, or you're like throughout the day and you want to like have a poor snack.

22:50If you just do a quick protein shake with water that goes away and you become associated real quick. So it's like in my entire life, if I ever get in a position where I'm like, oh, I want that ice cream or I want that sweet or candy. If you do that real quickly, even in water, which is not the best way, it's not as good as milk. Immediately you don't want to eat that. So it's just a swap like that, that I think is much better that people can utilize. It's amazing. And there's that protein leverage hypothesis. Have you guys heard about this? No, I haven't. Oh, you haven't. Essentially, your body is looking for amino acids.

23:18We're eating in search of amino acids. And once you hit that amino acid kind of like maximum, your appetite kind of turns off. But that's why people are eating carbs and fat and just other snacks, potato chips, and they just can eat and eat and eat and eat because those amino acids are missing. So yeah, if you have a craving, you come in hot with some amino acids right away, I mean, you're done. You feel good. And like with that bone broth there's no sugar in there and there's like you said 15 grams of protein so monk fruit in there there's no monk fruit i'm gonna say this and i've never said this to anyone oh i am very picky about my protein powder and your protein powder to me is number one that i've ever had and i've tried a lot of protein powders i'm gonna say it is the best protein powder it is the protein powder i give my children i love your protein powder thank you for saying that.

24:05I really do. Genuinely. Please save a couple of bags for us after this episode. You guys will just have a shipment. I really do. I'm telling you, I buy so many bags of it all the time. I like that bone broth is so interesting to use as a protein. It's so smart. Yes. Tell us, as Michael mentioned, about glycine. Well, so here's my understanding of glycine. It's an amino acid. I started taking it at night before bed for recovery after working out in the gym. And then I noticed that my sleep was just way better and I felt better in the day, but I don't really know any of the science other than I've seen somebody talk about it.

24:39I was like, I'll try it. And I like it. Oh my gosh. Well, I've gone on the nerdiest deep dive and I just started my own YouTube channel. And I was like, I'm just going to, I've been talking to these biochemists, like Dr. Joel Brin specifically. And I was like, I'm just going to put this podcast out there because it's nerdy people. I mean, it's like 230 ,000 views, thousands of comments, people. Wow. You want a contract? I'm sorry. But what it is, is yes, that's what most people know about glycine, right? Is that it's good for sleep. It's kind of a calming neurotransmitter in the brain. So it kind of like takes you down a few notches.