How To Build A Disruptive Brand: Mimi Evarts On Creative Strategy, Brand Evolution, & Crafting A Timeless Aesthetic

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential. Him and her. Aha! I decided to have my sister, Mimi Everett, on the podcast, who is also the director of branding at The Skinny Confidential. And we just thought we would have a little conversation about the evolution of the brand, how the aesthetic has evolved, advice to people who are trying to scale a brand, all things branding, because we've really been through it all.

0:47Yeah. I started working with you when I was going to high school across the street from where you lived and we were both working at the same restaurant and I didn't have a car and so I'd go over to your house after school so you could drive me to work but then you had just started your blog or your blog was like in the early stages and you would be shooting food content and you're like here like clean up the food content and I'll pay you 20 bucks or like help me stage this popcorn stuff some bookmarks and then I started growing your Pinterest and it really started working and then slowly you gave me more things to do I don't remember that part I don't remember you coming over after before we would go to work together I forgot like I remember now it wasn't for that long because we only worked together for a year there I think so you were at my studio apartment when I had just launched the blog and we were working together at Delisius.

1:45You were the hostess and I was the bartender. You got me the job. Yeah. Oh, my God. That is so vintage. See, I was going to say that I thought you started working for me when I needed help with my closet when Michael and I moved in together. But that was later on. I do remember helping you guys move, though, and it was one of the most trying times of my life. Why? I thought you and Michael were going going to break up. Why? We would always steal the money out of his pants pocket. Yeah. And then we would give away all of his stuff to Miles, to our dad, anyone who wanted something that was a little bit ugly.

2:20And then he would be like, where's my$10 bill in the pocket? And we would be like, beats me. We'd be eating sandwiches. The sandwiches across from that apartment were so good. I miss it. So when you think about the brand as a whole, because you have seen it through so many iterations, what do you think has been the craziest part of the evolution? Because you've seen it through when it was like a blog to now when it's a product line that you work on every day. I think when the ice roller launched, that was really probably like the most exciting. I think that what's been crazy for you is that you started when it was a blog.

3:03And now it has all these tentacles. I was describing this to someone who just started with us this week and saying I showed her this timeline of the brand. And the first part is like pink and it's you making recipes. It's your first book. It's workout tips. And then it phases into when the podcast started. and that's when we got this like masculine edge that we had never worked with before yeah and it was really fun to start using like more black and more textures and then when the brand initially launched and it was like barbie you know it was so pink you wore that quinceanera dress for the launch video and then the book the second book i feel like after you had zaza the brand really started changing.

3:49Yeah, I think you grew up. I think I grew up and I think but I also think the audience grew up too with us. So like I had a lot of, you know, high school students and really young college girls reading the blog when you and I were working out of my studio apartment. And then after I had a baby, the audience had a lot of them had grown up too. Yeah. And I think you see that in the evolution of the brand. If there are people who are listening that want to start a brand right now. You have been so into this brand. What are your tips? Sometimes I feel like this is my only experience. So I just live and breathe this brand.

4:30But you don't. I feel like we're always screenshotting and sending stuff back. Like you understand branding. You've immersed yourself in it. A lot of people go to school for branding. I think what I would say is one of the mistakes that we made in the beginning was we kind of pigeonholed ourselves when it was so pink. Then you had to ride with that pink. And then it couldn't be for everyone. It became, you know, men don't want pink. Some girls don't want pink. You don't want like a flamboyant pink with you all the time. And I think that that was hard. I also think another mistake that people would do is when something's trending, like a few years ago, things got too modern.

5:09I don't know if you saw when Burberry made their logo really modern. It looked exactly like all the other modern logo brands like Balenciaga. I don't remember. But then Burberry last year got a new creative director and they went back to their roots and it's like they're embracing that horse logo and it has more of that serif font. And I think that it's if you're building your own brand, it's thinking of something that you're still going to want to post about in five years and something that you can grow with. I think that's a great tip too, because it's also going back to being. Yeah, like a play on nostalgia.

5:42Yes. And I feel like you and I have talked about this a lot where a lot of people went like very stark and monochromatic and nude and beige. And now what I'm seeing from everyone around me who's so creative is everyone is craving depth and richness and, you know. Contrast. Yeah, different browns and woods. and I think this is also dangerous though right this is that's why I think this is important to talk about so you got to be careful that then you don't you have to be in the middle of the road I think that if you look at someone's house and you're like wow this house is gorgeous it's normally like a collection of things that they found throughout their life which is how the brand should be it can have some monochromatic and simple but then some like deep antique wood element Yeah, I think that you want to be careful how much trends you follow.

6:34And I think that that's where we're at now on the trajectory is how are we keeping it classic, but also staying relevant, but not being so immersed in the trend. I think it's almost not looking at the trend and trying to think what naturally you want to do next in a way to take a step away. I agree with you. And I think that that's why when Burberry goes back to its classic logo, it stands out because it looks different. And I think people are craving like a freshness, like they want to see something new. You know what I mean? Like people are bored with everyone doing it the same way. Yeah. And I think that's constant innovation.

7:14And I think what's been cool for us is that you and I have been so close to the picture. We've had our nose to the picture. and then we've been able to have freelancers who are farther from the picture and you have to like meld the two together. Yeah. What do you think is the best way to build a cohesive brand from scratch? We recently worked with this graphic designer and she was the first real graphic designer that we had been working with. And she explained to us that the foundation of a brand is based off of normally three principles and so for our brand you think about it like a house so there's the foundation there's the construction and there's the roof and for the skinny confidential we have elevated disruptive and intentional and so I think when you're building your own brand you should think about what your principles are what you're trying to get across it's kind of like that you told me once that if you're creating content needs to educate entertain or inspire and it's the same sort of thing like what's your brand doing what's the value of it for other people yeah what's the takeaway of how people feel I think that I always tell people when they're starting a brand to take a poster board and literally draw what you want in front of you and then write down who your consumer's name is and from there write down how you want them to feel when they're leaving your page so some people are going to be like I want them to feel romantic Some people are like, I want them to feel educated.

8:47Like whatever it is you want to evoke a feeling in the consumer. And what are you wanting them to feel? For this podcast and this show, I want someone to walk away feeling like they've learned something and they have tools to optimize their life. Tactics, tips, hacks, something tangible. Like something quick that they can do. This will be a fun one. I'm gonna tell everyone what the best advice that you've given me throughout working together and you can tell everyone what my best advice to you has been okay and it can't be that I told you Brunello wine is the best red well it is Brunello or Brunello when I order a wine at a restaurant I'm like I don't really know what I like except for Brunello or Brunello do you have one of those by the glass they're all no we just have California wines yeah um the best advice that you've ever given me is I think that you have taught me to, when we talked about this earlier, not follow trends and to also keep it young and fresh, but also at the same time act appropriate for where you're at.

9:59And what I mean by that is like, you don't think I should be like following what Gen Z is doing. You think I should be staying true to the brand. You've taught me how to have finesse and I'm trying to articulate it in the right way. It's like stay where I am in life at this stage with having kids, but also bring in some of the freshness without being trendy. And it's a dance. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I think that you have three kids now. If you were to be in a, you know, twerking twerking it's a little off-brand or just not what anyone wants right right no one well no one needs to see me twerking this pregnant carson don't maybe michael i don't know if michael needs to see that michael's gonna be on the other side of me when i give birth like up near the head not the baby's head yeah my head good yeah he doesn't is he helpful

11:02yeah no he's helpful he's helpful he's pan I don't need a doula yeah it's just the his energy the reason I don't want to have a home birth is because he has sympathetic pregnancy I think yeah don't they all though I don't know I mean just you wait you're next um so I think what you've taught me with with the brand is like how to have balance with the content and I think or own. Yes. I think that's important. You can steal like an artist. There's things you can see. Wow. I love exactly what they're doing, but it doesn't necessarily make sense for our brand. But we say why we like what they're doing.

11:39If it's, you know, Burberry going back to that simple logo, we'd say we like how it's more classical and we like the serif of the font. How can we bring that into our brand? Yeah. Like, and how, how can you bring the classicness and the nostalgia back without using the Burberry font and their horse, you know? Right. It's our own, it's inspiration. I also think that you have a really good eye for spotting content creators who are really, really talented that may not be like the biggest creators, but they have a specific eye. I mean, you were watching Korean beauty YouTube situations before like, I mean, 10 years ago, I feel like.

12:18Yeah. I think that I just got really interested in skincare because working with this brand that was a big part of it originally like you were really interested in beauty and so I started looking at that and I think that when I went to Korea and I got a new perspective that was one of the most valuable things I ever did in my life because now I can appreciate brands for different things like there's this brand gentle monster and you can tell what they're doing is art. Their pop-up stores are like art pieces. It's not to sell the products necessarily. Or there's other brands like Barbie where it's nostalgic.

12:58Or there's brands like our brand where you're playing on daily habits and building your life. What's the best advice that I've ever given you and the worst? the best advice that you've ever given me yeah is take what you want and leave what you don't okay and what does that mean to you i apply that to everything okay if i get advice from someone i say i like this piece of advice i don't like that piece if i go on social media and there's some negativity but i want the positivity takeaway i'll just focus on the positivity it's kind of like perspective it's the way you see a situation is how I interpret it okay what's the worst advice the worst advice is when you're half listening and then you give me advice I remember when I was single you would give me dating advice like you'd be getting you'd be so busy you'd be writing a blog post and getting your hair done at dry bar and I'd leave him no you like never text him again burn him oh and then the guy's like hey we went on one date and you never texted me back and then I would tell you like why did you do that you know what though it's worked for you because now you're with the love of your life so maybe my dating advice isn't that bad I stopped listening to your dating advice I started going with my gut but you were always in the back of my mind you get great relationship advice okay I'll take that I'll take that what What is the worst font that someone can use?

14:34Oh, it's a good question. The font that we should all stay away from. It depends. I don't think that it's fair. It's like art. You can't say that all art is bad. Okay. So what if you're telling someone, I think what you're saying is like, you have to define what your brand is and maybe that font fits with the brand. Yeah. Maybe it's googly eyes making the letter Y is your brand. You know, maybe it's cursive. Maybe it's like bubble font. for you. Okay, but let me ask you this. What font do you not like? What font do I not like specifically? Like personally. I'm not a big fan of bubbly letters because it feels young.

15:14Feels childish. But then I look at like a Skims and that's done cool. Yeah. So I think like there's a way to do it in a way that's elevated. It's hard to do a blanket statement like that. But But if I had to say it would be some of the fonts on Instagram stories. I'm like, who made these fonts? Let's rebrand those. There's a couple that need to be rebranded. The one that's like slanted and thick that has been there since the beginning. Yeah, we got to get rid of that. It's time to move on. No, I think we. Yeah, I think they need to update their fonts. Yeah, they added some new ones, but even the new ones, I'm not loving.

15:47And then you get the one that everybody uses. And that feels like to me, I'm like, oh, everyone's like, I don't like everyone's using it. I hate when brands or people in general put too much space in between letters. If it's, you know, Thursday on an Instagram story and it's like so much space in between the letters, it drives me nuts. Huh. So spacing. Yeah. I'm more about the spacing than the font. One thing moms do not mess around with is their formula. So enter Bobby. Bobby supports every feeding journey with simple, organic, high-quality formulas that bring their best for your best. It's founded by moms, backed by science, and trusted by 500 ,000-plus parents.

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20:45I can't live without it. I just did an episode recently on my morning cocktail. This is one of them. It's in there every single day. And of course, we have an incredible offer for our listeners and viewers. Fatty15 is on a mission to replenish your C15 levels and restore your long-term health. You can get an additional 15 % off their 90-day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com slash skinny and using code skinny at checkout. Again, that's fatty15.com slash skinny. What makes a beautiful brand to you? Like, is it the website? Is it the Instagram? like what do you look at something and you're like that is an incredible brand when I feel inspired by it and I want it for a certain reason like like gentle monster like gentle monster the way that they present their products is so amazing that I don't even care if I like the sunglasses but I want them because I want to be a part of the experience that's what I think is really going to move the needle when it comes to merch.

21:43I think that I want to create a brand, if I'm starting today, that people want to actually wear on a hat. Let me ask you this. When's the last time you bought merch? I haven't bought merch since 2015. I think that I would buy it for like all. That's not true. We went to St. Bart's. But that's like a restaurant apparel. But we went to St. Bart's, you guys, and the hotel that we stayed at, it's you want the merch. Yeah. Like you do. We were like, let's get the rash guard. But that's more of a statement potentially because when you go to your next location and I'm wearing the rash guard. Yeah. Yeah.

22:25It's not subtle, but like it's, yeah. It's a little peacocky. That's, I always like. And I'm okay with that. I like to look into the behavior of the merch. Do you know what I mean? Like I want to look into, because I remember there was a time when there was a lot of people were wearing like glossier pink sweaters and it was like a it was like a subtle it was signaling to the market something subtle and I think that now we're seeing it without even logos like you see the row bag yeah and you see Carson's like what are you guys talking about you see the row bag and there's no branding on it but it's like if you know you know almost like an exclusive club i think that merch is also in products now like the summer fridays lip gloss everyone has that in their flat lay the mej clip yeah it's not just a sweatshirt anymore yeah it's it's interesting it's like you're you're right it's like merchandise yeah or like hailey bieber's phone case yeah i think that that is interesting It's like, how do you create merch that that it's not merch, but it is merch?

23:31Do you know what I'm saying? Because you get so many PR packages. And I think sometimes I'm like, wow, this is wasteful. How many more hats can you get? Well, it's funny. We just talked about this in our team meeting. I have gotten so many packages for what I do. And the ones that I actually post are the ones that I this is what I've noticed. like like stepping outside my body the ones that i actually post are personalized or appeal and if i'm being really honest to my ego so like the fat jew sent me i remember this i still i talk about white girl rosé yeah he sent me this package for white girl rosé and it said on the box lauren fucking bostick is the queen of everything and i was like you know like you want like you you like think like wow that's cool that they personalized that they spent the time and then you open it up and it's like here's a five dollar bill because it's the holidays and then there's the only thing you want for Christmas and it was a five dollar bill and it was booze and money yeah and then it was like it was like family time is hard on the wine so it was funny too so not only did it appeal to my ego it was also funny it entertained but then you get a brand that will send you every lipstick shade that they have and it's probably a thousand dollars or something crazy and you don't even end up posting it and I you like give it to your friends and you give it away so it's to me that's that human behavior of it is so intriguing I think that there's also the right audience potentially like if you sent that lipstick with every lipstick color to someone who had 500 followers they'd be really excited and they'd post it yes or if you were a really big brand and the creator was trying to get on your channels, they would post it regardless.

25:20But if it's someone who already has authority, they're not just going to post a bunch of product. It's like gluttonous. Totally. And I think that that is what the wave of the future is, is personalized PR. So the way we do it at the Skinny Confidential, and we've talked about this internally, is like we personalize what we're sending to each person. Meaning if I am going to send a brow peptide, which I'm obsessed with. I use every morning, every night. It grows your eyebrows. Same. I'm going, I'm wearing it right now too. You can see it on YouTube. I am going to find someone that is all about the brows on Instagram.

25:58Like they just, they, maybe they like the way they like brush their brows is unique or the way that they shape them is unique, but I'm going to find someone who specifically is known for their eyebrows. Like maybe let's say like Brooke Shields was like yeah like we would like send it to her I think that people don't want 20 ,000 pieces of product they want personalized product to them so like another good example is this girl on Instagram I sent it to you I don't know if you saw she has this big Birkin full of ice and she's wearing mouth tape and she dunks her face in the Birkin for like to get like her face really cold and she rips the mouth tape off.

26:41And so I messaged her and I was like, I have to send you a bunch of ice rollers for your purse and mouth tape. Like there's a reason. And I think that's what's going to become very in. And I don't know if in is even the right word. I think what you're saying is really good for our brand in the way where if you're finding someone who's already familiar with the product, you don't have to educate them. Educating someone on your product, telling them how to use it is a lot of work and really expensive. So if it's someone who already is using mouth tape, they should switch to ours. That's a really easy switch and it's understandable.

27:18Exactly. When you plan a photo shoot, because you've planned a lot of photo shoots for the brand, and when you plan a video shoot, what goes into that? Because I don't think people understand all of the different things that it takes to get there. And maybe you could talk about the toilet paper shoot. Okay. When we're planning something, it'll be an idea from a long time ago. Like you said you wanted to make the toilet paper and we talked about it for a year before. And so then that whole time we're kind of thinking about what we're going to do. And then when it comes time to start doing the actual photo shoot, we would think about, you know, seasonality.

27:57So toilet paper launched in the spring or if something was launching in the winter you'd probably do like a you know a winter theme like a stocking a snowman yeah a snowman I'd love some snow actually for something but so that's step one is imagine or thinking about when it's launching what it is who the audience is and then obviously you have the list of the content that you need like we need content for ads we need content for the website we need content for social media you need a photo sometimes there's a billboard and so I'll think separately how I'm going to position you because you're the founder and you're very specific.

28:32And then if there's other content that we need of someone using the product, I'll get a model for that. And then the e-com itself is separate. And so for the toilet paper, I looked back at all these old ads from like the fifties of toilet paper and there was all of this fun marketing. And so we kind of went off that for the shot list but obviously it was a more modern shot list it was like an old photo but we shot it modern and we put some texture on it and like give an example like we had you had toilet paper rolls in people's hair yes curlers yeah so it's also thinking about how to use the product in a different way so you think about each different part of it like there's three layers in the toilet paper in each square or there's the holder or there's the wrapper in the box and so yeah we put the roll of the toilet paper and a girl's hair for like hair curlers and then we had her reading a newspaper because we didn't want to play on the toilet the toilet's like ick you know and so you can maybe look at that and see a girl reading a newspaper with her hair and rollers and kind of understand that she could be going to the bathroom but it's not so explicit.

29:47I also think what we did is we looked at hotel toilet paper and how it was folded. And then we also looked at like the stamp that they put on toilet paper. And then I wanted to launch with something really bold on my Instagram, which was the video of a girl walking with a heel and toilet paper gets attached to her shoe and she pulls it off. And so what Mimi did, and I think this is so helpful. And if you are starting a brand, this is like a hot tip is she storyboarded it and she storyboarded each it was like a 40 second video and she storyboarded each scene so when we gave it to the photographer to shoot it was like she's wearing a black heel with red at the bottom and her leg has a shimmer to it and you can't see over her knee and there's light and it's the light is coming from the right yes like you and it's warm yeah and then like do we show the product at the end like she literally storyboarded each clip to make the vision come to life and I think that that's important with a brand is like how are you storyboarding each moment to get what you want because I think that also helps with the process sometimes I have no idea what I'm doing until I start actually working on it and if you don't I think and you know this ask for exactly what you want for if you're working with like an outside photographer it doesn't show up the exact way you want yeah even with that video because normally i would be at a shoot or call in and so when we got the footage back you know there was like an issue and she had to reshoot a scene which is fine because we had time we had like a day maybe but it's fine i think you also just have to be flexible yeah and expect that there's going to be revisions thinking you're going to shoot it and it's perfect is not how it works it's constant refinement that's so so important branding pet peeve that makes your eyes twitch maybe when brands don't evolve yeah that's yeah we've talked about this yeah when it's they're stuck in the same ways i get that it's what worked for them in the past but there's a way to take your brand into today it reminds me of nails it's a great example if you are wearing the same nails that you've had 30 years ago it almost like couldn't it's like implants too it can show your age like if like the the bolt-on implants that everyone had in the 90s like you can like you can see that it has like a tanning bed yeah it's like it's a look it's like the playboy bunny on the lower hip yeah that I used to do I'm obsessed with that I'm using that as inspo for something great and maybe they can maybe you bring it back and you make it fresh but my point is it's like it's same with the brand you want to evolve the brand as you go yeah you need to be flexible I think is what is really important what's a day in your life of working for the skinny confidential I think that my job is so great because every day is a little bit different yeah it is every day different the other day I texted you I was like I need slippers yeah and we're like done and you're like what I'm like we need slippers we just redid the office and I don't want shoes everywhere.

33:07I'm like, we need TST slippers and you were like designing slippers. I kind of thrive off of that because I've worked with you for so long, but I love it. It's like I was probably supposed to be working on something else, but I was stuck on it anyway. And so it's a nice distraction to be able to finish something that I know I can do well is a better feeling and better use of my time than staring at the screen without knowing what I'm doing. So what's a Monday? So on monday we have our our team's growing. So on mondays we have the team meeting Which I usually like prep for before And then I have a lot of other meetings.

33:44That's mostly like our individual meetings or we're reviewing You know the new ad creative that came in over the weekend or issues that happened over the weekend And i'm also like getting my to-do list in order That was monday that you said the thing about the slippers. So that means that project's getting started I submitted the quote and then I have to wait until Tuesday to finalize it and then I also was like oh and we also need coffee cups and you're like I want coffee cups for shoots and for the team to have cute branded coffee cups the paper ones yeah yeah we ordered those great we can't wait I think that one thing that's cool about your job is like yes you're working on product innovation and design and the packaging, but you're also working on photo shoots and concepts and branding.