Jamie Lynn Sigler On Living Beyond MS, Never Heard Before Sopranos Stories, Motherhood & Finding Inner Personal Strength

25:01You're right. Right when she walked in and he looked up, it went to black. You're right. That's what happened.

25:05Jamie Lynn Sigler:The guy in the jacket, maybe. That may be one of the best scenes in the world. Not like because he died. Do you know why? Because I think if they would have wrapped it in a bow, there'd be, there. Of course. I know. But it's. Of course. And David Chase is a brilliant mind. He just, he just is our creator. Like he just, there's no one like him. Who's someone on the cast that's a sleeper cell? Meaning like someone that like you just really connected with that we would not even know. Like I love Pauly. I loved Pauly. That was my guy. Yeah. That was my guy. So he, I mean, I just, he always squeezed me too tight.

25:41You know, he always reeked of obsession cologne. I was going to say I can smell a cologne even without you can smell it. It's like almost maybe an aftershave going on. Everything. The smell, not a hair out of place, just but just loving and sweet. And one of his dear friends, Mike. So, you know, Tony towards the end of his life, you know, had some memory issues and definitely was, you know, not here anymore in very many ways. And I remember his dear friend, Mike, who would always come to him with all the all events and shows and whatnot, called me one day. And he's like, so I went to go visit Tony and I was showing him pictures, you know, trying to jog his memory.

26:21And he was really just kind of catonic and not really talking catatonic and not really talking. He's like, and I showed him a picture of you and him from the Emmys. And he went, my princess. That's cute. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So he was like, he's my sleeper cell. Like who you would maybe not expect that I was like super close with was him. Oh my God. What a great story. Yeah, I know. Seems like a lot of love. Beyond. The most. The most. But you know, but scary. You know, he had a past.

26:51Jamie Lynn Sigler:That guy put some real work in. Like really. He was legit. He's still my celebrity crush. No, we're talking about Tony Sirico. Oh, I'm talking about Tony Supremo. No, we're talking about Tony Sirico. Polly Walnut. You guys have to call the characters by their name. No, Tony Serica, Polly Walnut. Okay, sorry. I'm telling you about Polly Walnut. No, not Jim. Jim were Birkenstocks and like wrote a Vespa. Got it. Okay. I was like, I didn't know he had memories. Polly Walnut. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Tony Serica actually really. Let's clarify that so a reporter doesn't pick that up. He was like a legit dude at one point.

27:24Okay, so you're talking about Polly. Polly Walnut. His real name was Tony. That's right. Got it. That's right. It's a little confusing, you guys know. A hundred. It's a lot of Tonys. yeah but i guess i guess that's why that's my fault because i yeah but paulie that's still just as amazing story yeah i love that yeah okay so when do you decide what's the breaking point to leave i'll say it the toxic acts we were definitely leading up to it i mean there was so much fighting and you know when you're in this relation i don't know if you've ever had this like you're in a relationship and you're fighting so much that you start to question like am i crazy Yeah.

27:59Like, am I the crazy one? Is he right? Am I like because by the end of it, I mean, he made me feel this big, which is so crazy that he's one of the people that knew that you were dealing with MS. The fact that he would then want to make you feel so small is nuts. You know, maybe because I didn't speak enough about what was going on in my body or maybe enough wasn't going on in my body. It was never considered. It just wasn't. It just it it just wasn't until it was loud enough that it had to be.

28:34Jamie Lynn Sigler:Because you had minimized it so much to others. Yeah. Quick break to talk about just ingredients, electrolytes. We have talked about electrolytes on this show for years now. Here's the problem, though. You never know which ingredients you can trust. You never know which ones actually work, but there is one thing we do know for certain, and that's electrolytes and proper hydration is extremely important for overall health, so much so that many functions in the body actually shut down and stop working if you're not properly hydrated. What we love about Just Ingredients is it was founded by Carolyn Call after her own mental health journey led her to change the ways she looked at food and the impact it can have on your mental and physical health.

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33:48Jamie Lynn Sigler:See the reviews, see what stands out, and see if BetterHelp is right for you, visit betterhelp.com slash skinny. That's betterhelp.com slash skinny. We were, so we were at that place, right? Where, I mean, just completely unhappy and both of us had had it and he wanted to go out to this party and I didn't want to go. For whatever reason, I like put my foot down that I didn't want to go. I wanted to stay home and I wanted him to choose me. I wanted him to choose to stay home with me and be with me and not care that all these fancy people were going to be at this birthday party. And he chose to go out.

34:26And also, I didn't at that point no longer enjoyed who he was when we went out because it was like a lot of drinking and partying. And it just I couldn't keep up with that. I I don't feel comfortable. I said in the book, like I did cocaine one time in my life and I told everybody where I was that I was on cocaine. Like I'm just like not meant for that. I'm like, no chill. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, we know. Yeah, exactly. Thanks. I couldn't tell. So he went out and I remember immature little 24 year old thinking like, I'm going to set a snare. I'm going to make him think that I'm not here.

35:04And I want to see when he comes home and hear what happens. I'm a smart guy. I just had like, you just have that like woman's intuition thing. And at that point, years before, he had cheated on me. So it just, it always lingers in there.

35:19Jamie Lynn Sigler:And how old was he in comparison? 10 years older. Okay, so he was 34, you were 24. So we had like two bathrooms at the time in our apartment. So I kind of set up a little pad in my bathroom and like a pillow. And like I woke up and heard him coming in at like three in the morning. And I just kind of listened. And he was on the phone with a woman. And he was saying something along the lines of like, I wish I could come meet you, but I've got this like bitch wife and something, something, something. And this fire was just in me and I made it known I was there. He then told me, I knew you were here and I was just saying that to mess with you, kind of doing what he always did.

35:58I got in my car, I drove to my parents' house in the middle of the night on Long Island. He had already called them by the time I got there because he had such a hold on my family of positioning me as the crazy one.

36:15that by the time I sort of recalibrated and came back to the city because I had to go to work the next day, he was packing up, had our assistant packing up the apartment for him to move to LA. And so it was the final straw of sort of that night and what I knew was happening and sort of instigated. But he took the action to actually like move across the country to prove a point. And then when he was there, is I think, and the space was there, was when I was able to sort of get my feet on the ground and decide, like, I was done. Well, he was crafty because he infiltrated your family. He brought in your mom and dad onto his side, which, I mean, maybe you could speak to that because that's pretty.

37:04It was very difficult. I didn't speak to them for a minute. I had to like go to a therapist and write them a letter and really look it's like on one hand I have to honor like it was a breakup for them too like yeah he for five years he was in their life and like he called my dad dad he called my mom mom like he was very charismatic he's very loving he's he's very genuine in many ways he's also the other stuff and so they were also dealing with that, like loving him in that breakup, but they weren't taking my side and they weren't standing up for me. And it was a difficult moment and a difficult thing to go through.

37:48But also, I think matured me a lot. And I think also helped my relationship with my parents in the end. My dad still tells me to this day that the most proud he's ever been of me is me leaving the marriage. so dad came around did of course they both did always yes yes but it took some time it took some time it sounds like like the takeaway to me is like you have to advocate for yourself even if everyone around you doesn't understand that's right when you get back on the dating scene after my ex-husband i then dated um a restaurateur club promoter his name is scott first for two and a half years and scott was the opposite of aj like celebrity restaurant yes but he but like he had dated an Olsen like he was like he was like almost more famous than I was Scott was the complete opposite of AJ he was so reserved he was so quiet he was like I just like I gravitated immediately towards him very safe very authentic like the way he treated his busboys was the same he would treat when Tiger Woods walked into his restaurant butter like I just I loved it I wanted to learn from him I wanted to be around him.

38:58I just really he was kind of like this onion, like all these layers to sort of peel back from this mysterious guy. And he for two and a half years, like I think he offered me so much repair. I think he offered me a really safe relationship that still had fun and adventure, but didn't feel like I was out of my league or uncomfortable in any way. and he you know I obviously told him that I had MS but still didn't fully let him in to what I was experiencing I don't think I ever let anyone into what I was fully experiencing until my husband Cutter but after Scott I had moved to LA and then started dating Jerry Ferrara who played Turtle on Entourage and we dated for almost two years as well and the end of that relationship also was very much because the ms was really presenting itself and i just didn't know how to be in a relationship with it i didn't they incorporate that into the

40:02Jamie Lynn Sigler:show they didn't into entourage no one knew no she was on the show she was on the show no you were in the you were in the show in entourage right yeah yeah that's but they didn't incorporate him into dating you in the show i thought no you did they did we that's my role that's my role i was just like oh my god they were like oh my god it's meadow soprano i remember okay now i remember Yes, yes, yes. But not MS. But yes, that's how we met. Yeah, not MS. I'm saying that's how you, on the show. Okay, I'm remembering all of it now. No, I thought it was after you guys were together they incorporated you.

40:27Or was, is that how you met on the show? No, I did. So I was supposed to just do like a one-off cameo like everybody else does. Because it was pretty wild. Like, I meet him on the plane and jerk him off. And like, do you know what I mean? Like, it was supposed to be like a, you know, an exaggerated version of yourself. That's my best friend's dream. He's probably listening right now. That's like actually my best. To get jerked off on a plane? That's literally his dream.

40:46Jamie Lynn Sigler:Just meet anyone that'll jerk him off on the plane. It doesn't matter who it is. If there's anyone who wants to jerk one of my best friends off on the plane, slide into my DMs. Wow. What an interesting... Did he get inspired from Entourage? I think he's inspired. I think he... I think he's inspired by anyone. Maybe he's inspired by Entourage. We need to find out the root of this. Because it's been a while since I've seen Entourage, unlike The Sopranos, which I've watched three times. I've only watched The Entourage once. But I remember that you were incorporated into it. So I was just supposed to do one episode.

41:15And then Doug, the creator, was like, I love you and Jerry's chemistry. Like, hang out for a couple of more this season. I'm like, duh, of course, I would love to. And then they talked about bringing me back again. And at that point, you know, I invited Jerry to like a game night at my apartment in L.A. And my friends loved him. And they were like, Jeannie, like, go for Jerry. He's like New York. He's like your people. And yeah, we just had a chemistry and a spark. And so that was a lovely, the only actor I've been with, but a lovely relationship. Jerry is like the real deal. He's just, he's a grounded, lovely human.

41:51But I didn't, I was so afraid of bringing, ruining somebody's life with what I came with. That's so crazy that that was the narrative in your head that you felt like you were gonna ruin someone's life At what point did you have an epiphany that that was maybe something that you were telling yourself and not true? It took my husband to make me believe that that wasn't true

42:15Jamie Lynn Sigler:And what did you think you would ruin about their life? with uncertainty with just the instability that it brings in all the ways physically emotionally. I mean, this takes me on a ride. It does. Like even to this day, I've lived with this for 25 years and I still have moments where it takes my breath away of how sad I am and how devastated I am to have it. There's other moments where I celebrate my strength and I feel really proud of how I'm navigating my life. But to ask somebody to come along on that with you felt unfair to me, felt scary to me, felt like how could I ever be a good partner with this?

43:03And my husband has, I think he's just such a beautiful example of unconditional love. And I think he has given me the space to explore and work through all of that stuff over the last 15 years that we've been together. And because of that, I think I've been able to see my value and what I bring as a wife and a partner and that this doesn't take away from who I am in any of the roles in my life. But sometimes it takes seeing yourself through somebody else's eyes to get there, you know? What a special husband. He's the best. Sounds like a winner. He's the best. When you guys decide to have kids, what is that like for you?

43:48Well, Bo, our oldest, was a surprise. Love it. So Cutter and I, and I say this is like the ultimate divine intervention in my life. So Cutter and I had been dating nine months at that point. My husband is eight years younger than me. So hot. Yes. Cougar. I love that. So when Cutter and I met, he was living at my best friend Joanna's house. His family, it's out there in the open. His dad had gone to prison, had bankrupt the family. He was 22 years old. He was a minor league baseball player. My best friend, Joanna Swisher, is married to Nick Swisher, who was playing baseball at the time. Him and Cutter would train together in the offseason.

44:27I say all this because Cutter ended up moving in with them because of everything that was going on with his family. I'm there all the time because Joanna's my best friend. One night, Joanna was like, Jamie, you should sleep with Cutter. And I'm like, she's like, you're in such a dry spell. He's 22 years old. He's super into you. Like, he's leaving in three weeks. Who cares? and that's what I did. I just thought it was going to be this fun fling with this young, hot baseball player. So he goes off to play. We continue the relationship, but there's a voice in my head that's like, this guy is eight years younger than you.

45:04He's playing in the minor leagues. What are you doing? You have MS. You're out-of-work actress. This is probably not the right decision, but I really love this person. and at the time I was trying to approach the MS differently and I was like I'm going to do this holistically I'm going to get off of all my medication and I'm going to try to just do this through diet and thankfully it just happened to be a time when the medication was not in my system which is not good to you know try to get pregnant when you're taking that type of medication that I got pregnant by accident with Bo so I call it the divine intervention because that was to me God being like, no, this is your partner and this is what you're, you know, who you're meant to be with.

45:48And you're going to start this family. Joanna was pregnant with her first and my other best friend, Lindsay was pregnant. So it was like this beautiful time and surprise. And I just think the universe telling me what my path was that I needed to go on. And what's so interesting is I believe you said in the book that when you're pregnant, the MS symptoms are not as bad. So did Do you love being pregnant?

46:11Jamie Lynn Sigler:I wonder, did you ever figure out why that is? It's hormonal. There's something that goes on with the extra estrogen and estradiol and the way that the body responds, and they're trying desperately to figure it out. Why can't they recreate that? I know. Why can't they give you extra estrogen? This may be a really dumb idea or comment again, but has anyone done any experimentation with hormone therapy? Yes. I believe there's so much research, and I've met so many of the people that are working so hard to help people like me. I truly, and maybe it's bullshit, but it makes me feel better. Like I truly do believe that there are better days ahead for people that live with MS and they're going to figure something out.

46:56And I'm doing the best I can to stay as well as I can until that happens. But when you're pregnant, you kind of go into remission. And it was also on top of that, on top of not feeling the normal daily stressors that I would feel physically, my body was working and it was doing something good and it was doing what I wanted. And it wasn't feeling like it wasn't betraying me or mad at me. It was such a beautiful time, like feeling him and all the things that pregnancy and having a baby brings and then on top of it, just feeling in harmony with my body again. What is that like though, postpartum?

47:35Is that rough? I mean, I could have written a whole book about just like motherhood and postpartum because that's your next book. We need another postpartum. I cannot even imagine because you feel so good. You're on this high, like you're saying, and then you crash, but then you, not only do you crash, you get back with the symptoms. It sounds like with a newborn baby and you're not sleeping and you're trying to nurse and I was like I call I call the first year of the baby's life for me the dark year I do not thrive with a new baby it's just it's just really hard for me something about my personality of feeling like I'm getting it wrong of wanting to you know of just not I just don't thrive in that time it's just really difficult for me um but I thankfully forgot all about it when I wanted to have a second.

48:27Jamie Lynn Sigler:Unrelated to postpartum, but in the same kind of like line of thinking, when The Sopranos ends... Oh, Michael's back on The Sopranos! We're talking about postpartum! Sorry, Michael! And you have done that for 10 years. Yeah. And then I assume you likely want to continue acting. What is that transition like? Very hard. Because I imagine there's a little bit of typecasting because it's 10 years of a character. I still run into it. Yeah. And And you also have the high of literally being on the biggest thing on television. And then you almost got to like start over again, but with a whole new character, all new casting, all new cast.

49:02Jamie Lynn Sigler:So what did that look like for you? It was hard. I remember getting very close to one of the first things I auditioned for. I mean, I had barely auditioned during that time. You know what I mean? So I remember going into one. Did you do anything else during that time? Yeah, I did like a few little indie movies, TV movies. I did Will and Grace, which was really fun. Things here and there. but not that was the main yeah so one of my first auditions that i had was for a comedy and i got to the very end and i remember kind of feeling like what's going on all right i'm just going to go with this and i didn't get it and the feedback was the head of the studio or network was like i just meadow soprano is not funny to me like i i just see meadow i can't i can't get past it so yes there's there's that double-edged sword right of anytime you're on anything that's iconic or that people love so much.

49:50It's just like who they know you as and how they see you. And that's just how they want you to be. I get that. And that's why Entourage was such a beautiful gift was because it was kind of this easy transition. I'm like playing myself. We're referencing Sopranos. It's primarily the same audience, but I'm not playing Meadow. I'm playing this sort of exaggerated version of me. But I will say that it's what's been the hardest for me to deal with is coming out of the gate on like a show like that that's you know forever revered as like one of the best shows of all time and not feeling like I can keep up with that or sustain that I've had a consistent feeling of being a failure because you started on the moon and by no fault of your own I mean we funny enough

50:38Jamie Lynn Sigler:in an unrelated way we talk about you know everybody now wants to create content online or something there's a lot of people that seek out virality yeah and they want to have like this big moment. But I think to your point, it's a double-edged sword because you get, if you start that high with that kind of attention and that could have success, and then you get back to real life and you have to like maintain a normal course of growth. I think a lot of those people get so burnt out because they can't, they're like, that's the feeling. I'm a working actor. Like I'm, I'm actively auditioning. I'm actively putting myself out there.

51:12And there's just, I've talked I talk about it in the book but I still deal with it all the time of these moments where I'm like do I still want to do this like I love acting that is that is without a question and I know that given an opportunity I will show up and give it my fucking all and do a good job but to get that opportunity is really difficult it gets feels more and more difficult as you get older, as the business changes. And I don't know, I get, I have a lot of moments where I'm sort of confronted with like what I want. I mean, I was talking to Lauren when we first got here, like, I don't love being famous.

51:53I don't love all that comes with it. And if I'm not having the other part of it that makes it worth it, I just don't know how much I want to continue to pursue this if it's not meant for me. And you have to kind of do these, you know, when you do something for so long, you have to do these like ego checks of like, why am I still pursuing this? Is it because I'm still chasing some sort of success? Because the truth of matters, in the end of the day, I did it. Like I already, like I could just say I did it. Like I was on an amazing show for a really long time. Like what else is there beyond that?

52:31I don't know. But, you know, On the other hand, I just want to make sure I know how much I love it, but I don't want to sacrifice so much of myself. I deal with that a lot, that back and forth a lot.

52:43Jamie Lynn Sigler:I think fame for the sake of fame is a really bad thing to pursue. Yeah. Support for today's episode comes from Square, the business platform that helps sellers become neighborhood favorites. Whether you're gearing up for a busy season or just trying to keep up with everyday demand, Square keeps your business running smoothly from payments and POS to online orders, inventory, staff, and more all in one place so you can focus on your customers. So if you're ready to grow or streamline how you run things, Square is offering listeners up to$200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com slash go slash skinny.

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54:10Jamie Lynn Sigler:And like I said, it makes payments easy for everyone. Square helps you run your business more smoothly, bringing payments, operations, and insights together in one place so you're ready for whatever's next. Right now, listeners can get up to$200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com slash go slash skinny. That's S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash go slash skinny. get started with Square and build a setup that works the way you do. Quick break to talk about one of our favorite companies, and that is Branch Basics. Back to school season has a way of resetting everything, new routines, new schedules, and a renewed focus on what we're bringing into our homes every day.

54:41Jamie Lynn Sigler:If you're someone who pays attention to what you eat, what goes on your skin, and what you're exposed to in your environment, you might want to also start looking at the cleaning products in your house. This became a no-brainer to Lauren and I when we had the founder of Branch Basics on this show a few years ago now and learned all about the toxic, harmful hormone-disrupting chemical cleaning supplies that we were using in our house, in our offices, and that's many times used in our children's school. Ever since then, we have not been able to turn a blind eye. We've not been able to look back because once you start paying attention, you realize a lot of conventional cleaning products contain ingredients like hormone disruption, skin sensitivity, and respiratory irritation with repeated exposure, even if they're marked to look like they're safe or natural.

55:17Jamie Lynn Sigler:Everyone's heard of greenwashing. That is definitely rampant in the cleaning space. But don't worry. That's where Branch Basics comes in. Branch Basics is disrupting the cleaning space in a few really intentional ways. They fully disclose all ingredients on their packaging, which is something most conventional cleaning brands still don't do. And here's the good news. Branch Basics is now available everywhere you shop at Target, Target.com, Amazon, and of course BranchBasics.com. Tossing the toxins has never been more convenient. For anyone grabbing the premium starter kit, you can still get 15 % off at BranchBasics.com with our code SKINNY.

55:45Jamie Lynn Sigler:The premium starter kit comes with the concentrate and refillable bottles for your surface cleaners, including all-purpose bathroom, streak-free foaming hand wash and laundry. It also comes with oxygen boost for extra stubborn stains on pots and pans, laundry, bathroom tile, and more. This kit is a great way to kickstart your human-safe cleaning routine. Just use code SKINNY for 15 % off the premium starter kit at branchbasics.com. After you purchase, when they ask where you heard about them, please make sure to mention our show. Let's take a quick break to talk about free nicotine. I love this product.

56:13Jamie Lynn Sigler:I personally love nicotine, and I know it gets a bad rep, and that's because it's an addictive chemical, but here's the thing. If you use nicotine as a tool, it could also be an incredible cognition enhancer. It could be something that can help with mental deterioration and decline It could also be something that you use for extreme enhanced focus and performance. That's how I use it I'm obviously very careful with it But what I learned a long time ago is that nicotine can be an incredible tool if used responsibly just like anything else What I personally like about free nicotine is it comes in these different strengths and flavors If you're new to nicotine, maybe try the three milligram if you're a hero You can jump all the way up to 15, but it comes in three six nine twelve and all the way up to 15 My personal favorites are the watermelon and the mint and what I love about this company is it's for people who want to be the best version of themselves It's for people who want to perform and it's for people who want to get things done The way that I personally consume nicotine is if I have to sit down for a period of deep work I sometimes use it for that Sometimes when I have to do a show and have to sit for long periods of time Lauren and I batch these episodes sometimes or in multiple recordings Sometimes I'll take it then and what I like about it is it's something that really locks me in and makes me feel like I can Just focus for long long periods of time, which is so important Also, like I mentioned, nicotine sometimes gets a bad rep, but if you really look into the data and you look into the information, there's also some other sides of the coin.

57:26Jamie Lynn Sigler:Like I said, it can help guard against mental deterioration. So if you've been thinking about experimenting with nicotine, free is the one that I choose. I use it responsibly and I use it with intention. Try free nicotine pouches today at freepouch.com and use code SKINNY for 25 % off for new customers only. That's freepouch.com. We talked to a lot of people that have reached huge levels of fame. And what I will say is many of those people really struggle in life because it's this weird sense of like feeling like a sense of achievement based on other people believing that you are important and famous.

58:06Jamie Lynn Sigler:And as soon as you lose that, it's like very limiting. I also think from like a normal course of just everyday life, imagine you're just trying to go to the grocery store or go out or walk somewhere and people are gawking at you and looking at you and nobody's going to feel sorry for famous people or cry but i think there's a lot of it's not to complain about it no you're but you're exactly right and there's also just the commentary do you know what i mean i think it's it especially in this day and age with with social media and how easy it is for people to to judge you and comment on anything you said or war or did.

58:41I have such an like, like it's in my nature to like want to defend myself or explain myself. And that just can get really overwhelming because I, I don't like feeling misunderstood. I'm really work really hard at being a good person and being self-aware and having ownership and being authentic and honest. And anytime, I mean, I had to prepare myself in therapy, like putting this book out of just being like, I feel really proud about what I did. I've never worked harder on anything in my life and anyone's reaction to it has everything to do with them and nothing to do with me. And I have to be okay with that because this is the most I've ever put myself out there.

59:29And maybe that's why I'm finding myself in this sort of fragile moment too of just being I don't even know how much I want to do this anymore because it's really difficult.

59:38Jamie Lynn Sigler:If the byproduct of fame, though, is you get to do the work you love, then that's a plus. But if you're just famous for the sake of being famous, I've never met a single famous person that enjoys just that part of it, right? Because it comes with a million different things that you got to deal with. And I actually think as you build families and you build a life, it's actually a real risk and vulnerability, especially in the world we live in now. Definitely. Have you ever tried cranial sacral therapy? No. I don't. Do you have a person here? I have like chills. When you're talking, something tells me that you need to go to this person.

1:00:12Great. I'm so excited. Lauren's got all the people. No, I'm a witch. She's got all the people. Well, I know that. I mean, she's so, I like do all my drinks and powders in the morning. I follow everything she says. There's this woman, Dr. Maria, that you have to see. Okay. Like, I have chills right now too. No, you have to do cranial secret therapy. I don't, don't you think?

1:00:31Jamie Lynn Sigler:Yeah, I think, she swears by it. She loves it. I'm trying. I'm trying to get better. But some people have a really, really great result with it. Yeah. And I think you would. It sounds to me like there's this push and pull that you're having that is very hard to explain to a lot of people because you've had a very unique experience that you can't explain to a lot of people. Which is why you're probably so close with your soprano cast. Yes. Because they understand. Yes. But I believe that cranial sacral therapy opens portals. I know. I love it. I'm all about it. I love it. You, you'll get the clarity.

1:01:09Yes. I can feel like, I feel like you have a ball of yarn and it'll help you untangle what you're saying. I love it. Because you're, the problem.

1:01:18Jamie Lynn Sigler:But that's, you're saying that because that's basically her. That's you too. No, no. Yes. Yes. But I am searching for clarity in this moment. A hundred percent. But you've mentioned therapy, talk therapy, which is great. And I'm not shitting on that. And I know it's helped so many people. But there's something about using your own body to heal itself to get the clarity that you need that's not just talking. You know, I did do. So my son was very ill in the hospital two summers ago. Oh, my gosh. Which I wrote about. And that put me into I did EMDR for a while. And then I did ketamine therapy. and in one of my ketamine therapies uh one of my intentions was like i need like how i want to understand what my body is trying to tell me like i i i try so hard i don't give up i i'm i'm proud of that sort of innate like reaction that i have to living with this but like what do you want from me.

1:02:19And I remember like when the medicine started hitting me and my therapist, like she puts like a playlist on and she sits next to me and she just takes notes if I happen to speak out loud. And like the first few minutes of it, like I felt like I like the only way I could describe it is like like a model on a runway. Like I felt so good in my body and I was walking down. I felt confident and good. And then all of a sudden I was like in this like dark woods with like these thorns and I had nowhere to go and like the only thing I could do was just sit and the way that I was able to kind of interpret it that was like my body like it doesn't want me to it wants me to almost like stop like get like stop doing stop forcing and just let it do its thing like sometimes I feel like this white knuckle like you know pounding the pavement to heal to fix to do this is like almost doing the opposite.

1:03:15Like I'm trying to learn more now. Anytime I move my body, if I go to a new type of, you know, treatment or a new modality, like I'm trying to look at it more as self love and not fix and then like trusting my body to do its thing. So when you're saying to allow the body to heal itself, I feel like I've been getting a lot of messages from the world in that way and feelings myself of just like, I'm ready to try this another way. Do you know what I mean? Instead of just being so forceful. It makes total sense what you're saying. And I think with talk therapy, sometimes it can feel white knuckled and you're trying to check it off the list.

1:04:00The reason I like this is because your body, it's not her. She's not, she's, and she'll tell you this. It's your body healing itself. I do explain this to Michael. It's a little hard to explain i try it yeah but she told me you're blocked so is cutter by the way anytime i've brought cutter to anything yeah michael he's going to do hoffman it takes me a lot of

1:04:24Jamie Lynn Sigler:cracked open um i've heard a lot of people swear by hoffman yeah i know i've had a lot of friends that um it's been really life-changing and for cutter like on one hand why he's so amazing is because he's such an incredible caregiver. He's so selfless. He worries about everybody all the time, but he does not focus on himself. And he's just at this moment in his life where I'm looking at him like, I'm good. You need to go. And he has no idea how to sit with himself or care about himself or focus on himself. So that's what we're hoping he'll get from Hoffman. That'll be great. I can't wait to hear about that.

1:05:00Jamie Lynn Sigler:I'm a little too chatty for Hoffman, I think. I think that's... What do you mean? Isn't it all chatty? isn't it is that not the one where you go silent the whole time no no no no no no what's the one what's the one we have to be quiet the whole time that's a silent retreat right yeah this is different no this you're like talking the whole time i think oh maybe i'll do good yeah yeah maybe you should go there too the part for me that was the hardest to get through in your book was the part about your son and what i liked about that part liked i don't know if that's the right word what i found refreshing about that part is that you are going through this catastrophic event with your son but you were honest with how you felt about him when he started to be mean to you yeah and i don't know if that's the right verbiage no i know what you're saying i it's funny when he got out so he was in the hospital for like 37 days he almost passed he almost died he was he was in a severe state of psychosis I mean sleeping in a cage restrained like couldn't figure it out I mean it was it was hell and I tell you all that because about a month after we all got home I looked at cutter one night and I was like I missed the hospital and he's like what the fuck are you talking about and I was like when you're in a moment like that you're so present I was for 45 days I dealt with whatever was right in front of me minute by minute hour by hour and while I wouldn't never want to go through what I went through again or watch him more importantly go through what he went through I was so raw and felt everything so honestly and deeply and there was nothing about the, I was not missing anything about the experience.

1:07:03And I think that a lot of what I've been through in my life almost prepared me to be the mom and the woman I needed to be in that moment. And I don't say meaning I did it perfectly, but meaning like to allow myself the grace to go through what I went through because yes, in the middle, I couldn't leave him even though I wasn't sleeping and my everyone would beg me take a night off I couldn't you also going through your own thing and I have MS yeah and I had just gotten out of the hospital myself or something and he was possessed I mean he seeing what inflammation now like does is that what it was ultimately was just it made him an entirely different person and as we got home and And to be honest, only up until very recently, what I was not prepared for was his entire personality shifted from two things, the inflammation and a near-death experience that he speaks very clearly about.

1:08:11And what about, and correct me if I'm wrong, what about all the drugs, too, that they have to give you to get better? I mean, he was on incredible amounts of steroids. He was on all these antipsychotics. He was on medication that I take. and so when we got home we were so desperate to sort of like get back to normal and I thought I was following his lead but the only way I can describe it is like Bo has always been charismatic he's always been like he's had swagger he's been confident and really sweet and really emotionally intelligent and connected. But the son that I brought home, it was almost like he was on Molly all the time.

1:08:54Like he would wake up and be like, today's a great day, mom. You are beautiful. Isn't it amazing? And like, I was so conflicted and confronted with like, okay, first of all, I'm so grateful that my son is here and he's so beautiful and he has all these lovely and amazing things to say, but that's not my kid. And like, he doesn't sound like him. He doesn't, like, I remember one time, like walking into other room and being like, I just want his voice back. Like, I just want him back. And he went back into school. And after a couple of months, and I have compassion for all those kids because as his mother, I had a hard time with it.

1:09:34He got destroyed. I mean, bullied so bad. I mean, I got him into therapy immediately, but like, only until I would say a month ago, I literally looked at my girlfriend because we were on this annual trip that we always do with all our families. And I was like, I think Bo's back. She's like, he's back. It's taken two years. And it's been such a journey of acceptance and grace for myself, for him and like all of the changes and just kind of going with it and not judging myself as a mother, which is really hard to my feelings and reactions to it. It was the most painful and difficult thing I've ever been through.

1:10:20But at the same time, I've never felt more love and never felt more supported. And just goes to show me like just always on the other side of everything, you know, like on the other side of the coin is always something beautiful if, you know, if you look for it. And so this experience has shaped us and changed us forever. And it's still evolving. And I was trying to explain to Michael what landed him in the hospital in the first place. And maybe if there's something that people can look for, because I know you like it was like you didn't know. You think it's a fever. You think it's a flu. And you never know whether you should call the doctor or not.

1:11:01Yes. But this is the one thing I will say before I tell you the story is this is just another example of like, listen to your gut. If you know that something's wrong, even if there's somebody with a plaque on the wall that says how smart they are and everything they've done, if you feel like something is still wrong, listen to your intuition. That's what carried me through this entire experience with him. I've never been that human before the way I advocated for my son during that time. So basically, we were leaving a family trip and he said he didn't feel good. The next day, he kind of had a fever, was lethargic, not feeling good.

1:11:43We thought maybe, you know, he just got a bug at the lake or he had been at sleepaway camp two weeks prior, let it ride out. Still, over the next couple of days, like a fluctuating fever, like, you know, 99, 101, but just kind of not feeling himself. So took him to the pediatrician. They tested him for COVID. They tested him for other things, all inconclusive. Oh, he just picked up a random virus. He'll be fine. The next day, he kind of stopped eating and just was just not himself. So I had I was in the hospital myself for a perineal abscess, which was really not fun. So I'm getting all these texts from Cutter, like he's still not well.

1:12:25I was like, well, take him to urgent care. I'm going to be discharged tomorrow. Took him to urgent care, did a chest extra, blood work, still inconclusive. I come home and I took one look at him and I was like, we're going back to, we're going back, we're going to a hospital now. Like, I don't like this. So it was a Saturday morning. We went to the ER, tested him again for everything. He's just kind of, I'm like, this has been six days. Like, this is not my son. Something else. Something's wrong. We go home that night. He starts vomiting and his fever starts fluctuating. It's like 95 and then it's 105 and it's like all over the place.

1:13:06So first thing the next morning, I make sure our nanny comes to watch our other son and we go back to the ER. Again, they're testing him. And while he was laying there, he was like, Mom, my feet feel, and he's saying it really so like, my feet feel like pins and needles. And I was like, okay, well, I'll tell the doctor when she comes in. He's like, and I can't pee. He said, I peed this morning, but I feel like I have to pee and I can't pee. I remember telling the nurse and the doctor when they came back in, they're like, well, if he peed this morning, you know, they just want to send you home.

1:13:41I remember my feet like not wanting to leave. Like something was like really just like inside me being like, you should not leave this hospital. But at that point, Cutter was so exhausted between me being in the hospital and Beau being sick all week. He was like, let's just go home because they had told us basically our next option was to see an infectious disease doctor because nobody else could tell us what was wrong. So on Monday morning, the next day, you can call and try to get an appointment. I sat in his bed up all night that night just watching him.

1:14:16Jamie Lynn Sigler:That's the most stressful thing ever. Ever. And at 8 a.m., Cutter called the office, did his Cutter thing where they were like, oh, we have an appointment in three weeks. Somehow he managed to get an appointment for that afternoon. And I picked him up to go shower and he was screaming in pain if you came anywhere near his bladder. And I was like, fuck it. Let's get in the car. So we started driving towards the infectious disease doctor's office, which so happened to be connected to a small emergency room. And I remember us pulling in and he's screaming in the back seat. And like Cutter and I like don't know basically which direction to go to.

1:14:56And I was like, go to the ER. So we carry him in there. I put him in a wheelchair and I'm trying to explain to the woman. And she was like, go to the infectious disease doctor's office. Like that's where you need to take him. So Cutter's pushing Bo in the wheelchair. I get in the car because it would be faster for me to drive there. We meet there. We like the three of us are just sobbing in the lobby and the woman calls the doctor out, took one look at us, and then he's like, I will walk you to the ER. Essentially, then they had to get a catheter in, which got stuck. It was a very traumatic thing, but they did an MRI, and the MRI showed that his entire brain and spinal cord was completely inflamed, and that they didn't know what it was.

1:15:46They weren't equipped to help him at this hospital, and that's when we were transferred to Dell. And then that's where the whole journey began. Thankfully, Dr. Hardy, I love you, was the neurologist who came in the next morning and immediately diagnosed him with something, what he had called ADEM, which is like acute dissimulated encephalitis. And it's basically any virus, could have been strep, it could have been anything, just kicked off his immune system and his and and to and the inflammation but what was crazy was as i watched him deteriorate over the a couple of days which eventually got us into the icu for 17 days all of his neurological symptoms mirrored mine it was bladder it was the right foot then he couldn't bend his knee and then he couldn't lift his right and i was sitting there just being like what what is like what is going on and Bo and I are like soulmates like when he when he was born they put him on my chest I was like oh there you are like he's like he's my twin flame we look exactly alike we act exactly alike and it was devastating to feel like my son was like having an experience like mine but after all was said and done and everything that happened and everything that we went through even though he was kind of in the with the inflamed brain and all on the high and everything he sat with me one quiet night after all of it and looked at me and said with full conviction i went through that for you you need to see a miracle and a body heal whoa how old he was 10 then.

1:17:32And now he's about to be 13. Wow. And he's got a toad and he's going through puberty and it's all the things. You've got quite the stories. Yeah. My goodness. It's a full life. It's a, I think I, what writing the book allowed me to do more than anything is learn how to root for myself. Like I like it's like the one thing I want to tell like anybody like you don't have to write a book, but like if you can go back through your life and see yourself as the main character in this movie and you see how each experience shaped you and made you grow. And, you know, when you watch a movie and you see the lead character go through these hard times, it's devastating.

1:18:18But you see who they become because of it and all that stuff. It's just I've been able to forgive so much and also acknowledge so much. And despite all that I have been through, I still look at my life as so blessed and so beautiful. And if anything, I just feel very armored and ready for whatever is to come. You have lived quite the life. I think everyone should go buy your book. I loved it. I told you it was one of my favorite celebs. I don't even know if it's a celebrity memoir, but memoir. Yeah, there's not much. That's what I mean. It's not like I'm not giving you. I I'm not really like a Hollywood girl.

1:18:56It's more, I just feel like it's just a story, a human story. Our audience, if you guys have not read this book and so it is, you will love this book. I gobbled it up, I feel like, in like three days. It's so good. And I didn't want it to end. Congratulations. I feel like it's so cathartic for you to get all this out. And I think it sets the tone too for your next chapter, whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for saying all that. Jamie, thank you so much for coming on. Where can everyone find your book and you? I mean, I think you can find the book anywhere. Books are sold. There's an audio book as well.

1:19:31And you can find me. Instagram is just my name, Jamie Lynn Sigler. And then I have a podcast called Messy. Yeah. And you have another one too. Is that coming? Can we choose that? Yeah. It's actually just launched today. Oh, congrats. It's called Living With It. It's on the Messy feed. And basically, I just want to highlight other people's stories. And when life hands them, you know, cards that they weren't expecting and how they've moved through it and how they've persevered. I'm just so fascinated by how people pivot in their life. And I think that they should be proud. And I love to hold the space for them to do that.

1:20:05Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me.

1:20:19Thank you.