Alexandra Venison, Beauty Editor

0:00Tessa: Welcome to the Business of Modelling, the podcast that pulls back the curtain on the modelling and fashion world. I'm Tessa Dewing, the Managing Director of Sandra Reynolds, a commercial model agency celebrating its 50th year in business.

0:18Tessa: Today, I'm recording in Dubai and I'm thrilled to welcome the brilliant Alexandra Venison to the podcast. Alexandra has built an impressive career across beauty, fashion, journalism and wellness. Her journey has taken her from London to Dubai where her first job was in a model agency before making waves in publishing as beauty editor at Vogue Arabia and online editor at Harper's Bazaar Arabia. She's interviewed some of the biggest names in fashion, beauty and entertainment from Dollar Teller Versace to Lady Gaga. Now as the co-founder of Jeannie & Co. and the visionary behind her latest venture, Beauty List, she's diving deep into the world of wellness.

0:58Tessa: Alexandra, thank you so much for being here. It's a pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much for having me in the sunny Dubai. Where did you grow up and what was your early life like? So I grew up in London and then we moved to Surrey before we got a surprising sit down with our parents who told us we were moving to Dubai and we had never heard of Dubai being to Dubai before. How old were you? We were 10. So you say we. So I have a twin sister so there'll be a lot of a lot of we's. I have a number two on for the ride. Well she's number one I'm number two. What's her name? Morgan. So she's the eldest.

1:36So the funniest thing that I said when they first told us was I was like there was there's not a Vogue in Dubai. I was like I can't move there I need to work for Vogue so from such a tiny age that was like my main okay did you know what you

1:50Tessa: were going to be doing for Vogue what were you thinking what it was I was obsessed with Grace Coddington's um photo shoots and just the the magic of magazines back in the day and I thought I would be a stylist but it was telling stories I absolutely love telling stories and what first sparked your interest in fashion and beauty it honestly was Vogue it was when I was young and And my mum was going out to these incredible events. Again, the hotel industry, she'd be dressing up and I'd be helping her get ready and then reading all of her magazines. And it was just flicking through the pages of Vogue and just seeing these incredible stories being told and the glamour and this whole other world.

2:30I knew what I wanted to do from a young age, which is super lucky because you sort of get tunnel vision and I was so hyper-focused. Like I didn't do any of the friends' holidays and stuff. I was always interning and that was my main priority. I knew I wanted to go to London College of Fashion and do, I actually started off on their business management course because I wanted to get a nice big overview of the industry. I thought that was really important instead of doing journalism. But after one year, I was like, no, I know I want to be a journalist. So luckily a space opened up on the journalism course and I got to move straight across.

3:07Tessa: And so before you even went and did that, you had been interning here, had you? Yes. So my first internship was with Bareface Modelling Agency, which I believe was the original modelling agency here. And I helped the bookers and I went on sets. And then I found this amazing stylist who really took me under her wing and I got to go on a lot of incredible shoots with her. saw the hard side of it from pulling samples and it's it's really not the most glamorous of jobs but I absolutely loved it and she really she really helped me and inspired me and then I was working with photographers also in the summer may I add doing holding up the uh the reflector in the middle of the desert in 45 degrees that was a fun memory.

3:53Did you feel like the devil wears Prada not yet that comes later okay yeah no it was everyone was really lovely and we were just building this industry like so many of my friends and my my um my colleagues now we were the ones that not so much me I was a bit later and in it but they really built this incredible like fashion industry that's here now and I think that's something that everyone needs to be so proud about because there wasn't huge amounts there was lots of people doing their own little individual things but everyone sort of worked together and supported one another and that's what sort of built Dubai and the Middle East into what it is today I even remember the first Dubai Fashion Week and yeah just to see what it was and now what it's come to is is really quite fascinating in

4:42Tessa: such a short span of time and what were you doing at Dubai Fashion Week for the first one do you remember? I think I was interning. I remember I got a front row seat and it was the most exciting thing. I knew one of the designers and I think I just got like a pass because I was interning with a magazine or something. Yeah and what about the last one that you that you went to? What role did you have at that? I was backstage interviewing the lead hair. Wow so that's that's a journey and then I think now because I've kind of transitioned more into beauty and wellness it is more like the backstage that I think when I was younger it would have been front row all of the shining lights and everything but now I just find backstage the most fascinating area to be be part of and that's where the real magic happens.

5:29Tessa: The experience you had during your time interning how do you think that helped you going to university? I think I had such a strong CV going across because I had done so much and the work ethic again I think it's that tunnel vision and And I was really lucky because I know other people are trying to find themselves. But I just got my head down and did as much as I can and had a really supportive family. Thank you, Morgan, for driving me and picking me up all the time. But it was that they pushed me to do as much as I could. And they were really supportive, kind of getting to me, getting me to the shoots and helping pay for taxis, lugging samples all around Dubai.

6:10I remember one time I think I filled, they have large taxis here. I had filled two of those with samples and one of them was like this huge box of like Fendi coats and yeah. And I needed help with that. So that's when my mum and sister sort of got dragged into it.

6:26Tessa: Did Morgan go to London with you? Morgan went to Manchester. Right. So how was that being split up as twins? I think we really liked having that time apart because we are so different. But to be honest, she was down in London most weekends. So, yeah, she travelled down a lot. I think she didn't know what she wanted to do as much, so she was still looking for that inspiration. She's a lot more business-minded as well, so she did business up in Manchester. But I think that was a bit more of a culture shock compared to London.

7:02I actually did my dissertation on the evolution of the Abaya. So I came here, our dissertation, because I did broadcast journalism, was you had to do like a 10 minute documentary. So I was lucky that we used to come back here during every break to come see my parents. And I decided I wanted to, you know, highlight the industry that had taught me so much and shaped me into who I was. So I worked with, I filmed and interviewed some fabulous designers here, the stylist who I'd worked with so much, Dina. So your internships actually gave you the contacts as well that you needed to do that. Yeah, that's the biggest thing, isn't it?

7:40Contacts and the foot through the door and the understanding of the industry. And because from 11 years old, I was so fascinated and constantly researching.

7:54Tessa: You moved back to Dubai in 2012. What was it like stepping back into the industry? Well, so the day I graduated, I got a job offer. One of my friends had told me that there was a job going with Emirates Women. So I had applied and the day I graduated, I got that job offer. I had an offer to work with a fabulous magazine in London but it would be interning in a room with you know nine people and probably packing clothes whereas here it was a junior fashion and beauty position on an incredible team the Emirates women team back in the day well obviously now but back in the day it was just a really fabulous group of women.

8:33Tessa: So you hadn't set your heart on coming back to Dubai you were looking in London as well if you'd have found the right role you'd have gone wherever the role actually probably the magazine in London was was probably a dream to work for but okay I also had a love interest who became my husband so I followed that dream as well so it was like the dream the the man and the job okay and he was here yeah so so you you came back to Dubai and you actually had a fantastic job and a dreamy man yeah it's not bad I mean on paper but obviously there's with the man ups and downs no of course we were young and then obviously with the job you're young again and and being an assistant it was it was a lot of hard work but I think that's the thing that sometimes there's a lot of people coming in that are very afraid of hard work or they feel like they shouldn't have to do that hard work to get where they are um and you have to you have to hustle and that's why you have to be passionate about what you're going into because it is hard work you're not owed anything and and you should work for it and you know constantly strive to be your best

9:49Tessa: you then went on to hold major editorial roles at harper's bazaar arabia vogue arabia tell us about how that happened so I I have to give a little shout out to the magazine in between that doesn't exist anymore but I worked um after fashion beauty at Emirates Women I went to Viva magazine which was one of the I think it was like more focused on beauty here for sure but I had the best editor that I've ever had Anita and she taught me so much about what it is to be kind and how yes there's hierarchy but it's about giving everyone opportunities and stuff and then that magazine shut down and I went across to Harper's as the online editor and I had one week to learn online and how to run a website which was yeah jumping into the fire but there was a great team there as well to support and it was a fabulous role I was yeah very very lucky to get it and then I got an email one day and Vogue had just launched here and I was sort of like waiting because I was so blessed to be in the Harper's role I was sort of waiting to see what was happening with that and I got an email through one day saying we've heard a lot about you we love your profile um would you be interested in the beauty editor position so did you scream screamed screamed the house down and it was in my personal email so I hadn't checked it for a few days and I was in my parents house at the time and I just remember yeah the ultimate it was like everything that's why I fully believe in manifestation because I've yeah completely manifested that role how old were you at that time I think I was like 26 or 27 that could that could be wrong but yeah quite quite young for that role but I think that's that's the thing Dubai is amazing um for opportunities but I worked so hard for it and I mean I started in the industry at like 14 so

11:46Tessa: what was some of your biggest takeaways from the world of publishing from those roles there's beautiful stories out there to be told and I think not often enough they're the smaller stories um because I've interviewed amazing people beyond my belief and most often it was the unexpected ones that I wasn't as excited for. Probably back in the day it was because they weren't the biggest names and they turned out to be the most brilliant interviews and then the bigger names were the more managed interviews. Tell us about any particular interviews that stand out to you as especially memorable or unexpected.

12:29So my favourite of all time was Angelica Houston for Gucci and it was this was during COVID so it was a phone interview but she was just the most magical person to speed to and none of her answers felt rehearsed and she just felt so genuine and writing the story and doing all the research on her which I knew a lot about her but really when you when I'm writing these stories I try and go so deep just learning how she shaped the industry in terms of from a beauty standard obviously she was known for her really distinct features and her larger nose which sometimes I feel like I have um but she was she was just amazing um and then my most interesting one actually was Kourtney Kardashian and as much as I do love the Kardashians as like a little guilty pleasure I was never that interested in interviewing them I know of friends that have styled them and worked with them and they're amazing business women so they're really where they are for a reason but I thought it would be incredibly managed because I had and by managed I mean there's like a lot of uh their managers and stuff on the interview so you can't go off questions um and I had interviewed someone who I was so excited to interview the day before and I couldn't go off questions like that that wasn't the best interview because it was stopped and and it felt so rehearsed and media trained um and Kourtney Kardashian I had to call the number there was a young lady who picked up the phone and she said hi Alex I'm gonna patch you through to Kourtney and I was like really and she's like yeah she's just finished up with therapy she's driving back through the valley so if the phone is a bit the line is a bit interrupted please excuse and Kourtney was amazing she was so forthcoming she answered every single question we were on the phone for almost 45 minutes and it only ended because I sort of ran out of questions that I felt were appropriate for the interview.

14:19And she was amazing. She was just so real and so normal. And you weren't expecting that. I wasn't expecting it at all. And often the interviews here, you know, with LA, it was at one o 'clock in the morning or something. So you're always like a little bit tired and delirious. But yeah, she was fantastic.

14:37Tessa: Give us some of your most exciting moments from your time as beauty editor. You know, you must have gone to some incredible events. And I would say Dubai gives you the feeling that you could just meet anybody here. Oh, no. And there's a lot of celebrities walking around that we don't even know about. I think my best ones are probably from traveling, to be honest. Obviously, as an editor, you're super lucky with the trips that you get to go on with these amazing brands. I think my most iconic moment of all time was at the Versace Atelier. so they had launched their first um haute couture fragrance collection and we were sat there watching this movie about the perfumers and the concept and then the presenter said oh and we have a very special guest and turned around and donatella was there and for me um and so we then walked she took us through the atelier and i remember i was like stood next to her and the problem is with most of these amazing moments is and it's quite nice to talk about them you sign ndas and you're not really allowed to use your phone a lot of the time um but i remember being stood next to her as we walked into the room with uh her tribute to jiani that all the supermodels wore the silver and chainmail dresses she was like oh this is very special to me i created this for my brother and i'm just like where am i how and it was just the most spectacular yeah experience but so often they're just a few seconds long but she was, oh, everything I wished for more.

16:13Gucci was one of my favourite brands to work with in terms of the events and stuff they threw are just quite amazing so I was very lucky to work with them and interview a lot of interesting people like Lana Del Rey, Jared Leto but they took me to LACMA in LA and that was like 70 % celebrities and it was completely overwhelming. And I remember the night before I was speaking to my mum on the phone and I was like, why am I going? Like I'm not going to know anyone and I'm not going to be able to speak to anyone and I'm going to be overwhelmed. And she was like, you are someone. People are lucky to speak to you.

16:49And I think we forget that in the industry. It is so hierarchy again. Yeah, we get imposter syndrome. You get complete imposter syndrome. and I actually had the most wonderful time and I was the one kind of bringing people together and speaking to them. And so the funniest one that I just don't think anyone will ever believe me was at LACMA when I needed to use the bathroom and I was walking down these steps and they were really tight and I'm walking down and I couldn't get past. There was like two women at the bottom of one staircase so I had to go down the other and there was a man's back to me and I'm walking down and I was like, excuse me, can I get to the bathroom?

17:24And as I put my hand on his shoulder to get round him, which is surprising because he had security on him all evening it was leonardo dicaprio and i'm like i was like what just happened like no one's gonna believe that and it was like in this posh port-a-potty and then um as i left um the port-a-potty to wash my hands there was a lady there in this like bright blue aquamarine um suit and i was speaking to her going this is really quite bizarre isn't it she was like yeah i come to a lot of these things and only when i got like the press pack of who everyone was it was johnny ramone's wife what's even happening but it's just it's it's amazing but at the same time it's so industry and and i think my biggest thing is i would just want to chat to everyone and have like deeper meaningfuls rather than rather than anything

18:13Tessa: else you've witnessed significant changes in the beauty industry over the past decade what shifts have really stood out to you the most? Wellness and I was doing it so when I was at Vogue my last few years at Vogue I was doing my integrative nutrition course because I was interviewing a lot of people and I had a lot of brands coming to me with claims with stories and I wanted to educate myself more so rather than just be reading press releases and meeting people and not knowing what was honest and what wasn't I could make more informed decisions so I feel that's really important that's why I wanted to do that and also I struggled a lot with with weight and emotional eating and especially with a journalist job some days you're working from 8am to midnight and you're eating bad food and I said emotional eater so I wanted to really learn about that side of things and then that opened me up to health coaching as well and then I furthered that into hypnotherapy yeah I think I would have gone down that route but I'm don't think I make the best therapist because I'm quite empathetic and take on everyone's problems but I think the the industry is changing a lot more to be health focused and and it's not wellness it's about well-being now um and even in the past year the amount of new brands I've seen focusing on that is quite something and it's fabulous in one way but in another way it's it's toxic wellness and and everyone's feeling like they need to be going to yoga lessons every day they need to be I've so I also did a meditation to align with the hypnotherapy because I wanted to learn how to teach yoga nidra and whenever I speak to anyone about meditation they're always so afraid they're like oh I can't meditate for an hour I don't want to sit there my mind can't be silenced I'm like but there's so many different forms of meditation and there's there's wellness and perfection is so aligned right now I think that's what I'm seeing that we're we're hopefully trying to shift away because I don't know about you but if have you ever gone to a yoga class or a pilates class or something where you're meant to relax and and and you walk in and it actually feels a bit I just well I have we have a yoga teacher come into our office of Pilates actually every every Tuesday and she keeps saying to me I want to teach you to meditate because I'm constant my mind is constantly going at 600 miles an hour so I'm one of those people that would say to you I can't meditate yeah but then meditating is if you even just walking through nature for 10-15 minutes yeah you know how they say of the hot girl walk that's meditation as well it doesn't need to be shutting your eyes with your legs crossed yeah because I always think I always think of that I'm laying there and I'm thinking let the thoughts come do not engage do not engage do not engage with those thoughts which then gets me even more wound up which then I have more thoughts yeah that's me too but it's it's the you really have to practice it it is like going to the gym you need your mind is just look at it as another muscle that needs to be exercised all the time and when do you use that and what benefits does it bring to you?

21:30So I, and I'm not perfect by any means, like practice what you preach and I'm trying my best to practice. I use it every day and my sister and I are trying to implement it as well with us. So every day of the week we have a different form of meditation, mindfulness, or even manifesting. And my sister has like a few health issues. So she sometimes gets really tired from medication and stuff. And I said, well, when that happens, can I at least, because it's, it's hard when your sisters to do therapy in each other but I was like can I at least do some sound healing or a little you know yoga nidra while you're doing it so that's what we're we're sort of implementing but I think it's it's amazing when you have someone to help you or they're on the same journey as you um and I think that's why communities are really springing up a lot and like really niche communities where you find find your tribe

22:25Tessa: and how do you see the beauty and wellness industries merging in today's worlds so i see them merging you see a lot of beauty brands coming out now or if they're already there they're expanding into the wellness space so there's a lot of skincare brands that are now bringing in supplements so it's really taking that holistic 360 approach and understanding like none of us of being fooled anymore about one face cream being the magic answer you have to be looking after yourself from the inside out and that also means your mind and I think it's funny I got interviewed um by my I think it was like one of my first interviews about me and they were asking me what's your like top tips and as a beauty editor people expect that you're going to say oh it's this cream followed by this cream and it was actually it is sleep water and not stressing

23:19Tessa: what are your thoughts on the support available for models in Dubai in terms of mental health and wellness so Dubai is such a bustling city and there's a lot of support but obviously you need to take it into your own hands and find it yourself as said there's a lot of communities that are being built here so it's it's hard for a lot of girls I mean they come in it's such a transient city I know that's like New York and London as well but I think you definitely need to find friends and the right sort of group of people who will support you and have similar interests I mean you you have all your sort of therapists and stuff here but the one thing I have to say it's very expensive isn't it's an expensive city so I know a lot of people struggle with that side of things but then on a global scale there's so many communities and platforms that are that are opening up because it is a difficult industry and as much as they say as much as we've been trying to change it like me as a beauty editor I I really tried to make a difference but I think we're still pretty boxed in and and even when you see the um the numbers of the runway shows of how diverse it was one year compared to another year it's completely fluctuating there isn't that sort of change that I think we really wanted you know So you obviously booked a lot of models in your time, and you probably still do.

24:44Tessa: Tell me a little bit about that. Like what type of models did you book? How did you find the models? How were they talking to you about the market in Dubai, about modeling here? So there's two aspects to this. So you obviously have the international models coming in, and then you have the regional models that are really breaking boundaries here. And there's a lot of them that are really holding true to their culture and their personal preferences. And I think everyone's really respectful here in this industry. And that's really beautiful to see. And the support here for local talent is only growing.

25:19And that's very important for magazines to be supporting them and showcasing them on an international scale. I'm also working with like a lot of international photographers and stylists. So they have their lookout. They're on the lookout as well internationally for girls with Arab heritage. And it's so exciting to see. And then for the international girls, I mean, Dubai is an amazing platform for them to come and build their portfolio. And there's incredible teams here of creatives as well. Tell me about some of your most amazing shoots. so one photographer that I was following for so long and fangirling over um it's called Desiree Madison um and so I was very lucky to secure her for some shoots um for Vogue Arabia we did a shoot with Pat McGrath that went completely viral internationally and every few months it suddenly starts trending again so that's very exciting and then she also came over to Dubai where we did some Mac campaigns.

26:26So that was very exciting.

26:33Tessa: How important is social media to you, social media engagement and when you're booking a model and what do you look for? So I think there's a few different ways that you can go about social media. I think you have to look at it as it's your portfolio, but you need to also infuse some of your authentic self into it um and it's okay not to be a tiktok model as well who's posting every single day you don't necessarily need that to get to the top um but one person i do absolutely love is charlie howard and she's just so beautiful and i think she's squish squish beauty yeah so she has her own brand as well um but just how she speaks to her audience and she's she's really pushing for for imperfections as well like the real real women's bodies um I just love what she does so I think she's a great example of how to create a brand but still keep it really really beautiful and and curated and do you think the offering of more diverse talent in Dubai do you finding over the 10 years that you've been doing what you're doing is can you have you seen that sort of improve Yes, absolutely.

27:45I mean, I think there's the girls that kind of broke down the boundaries and were the first kind of regional models to come out. They've definitely paved a path for more women to be brave and take a chance and to understand that they can set boundaries and those boundaries should be accepted. I think it's a really small industry as well in the region, so people are very respectful and careful, and we're so excited to be helping to build this narrator pit.

28:17Tessa: What do you think brands and agencies could do to provide models with the right resources and education on self-care and business development? I think kindness is key is number one. It's being open and being supportive and allowing models to feel like they have someone to talk to if they're put in a position that they're not happy with. Also the understanding of the models of real people and their lives affect their skin, their mood, their body. So it's just having that really strong support system.

28:56Tessa: What inspired you to launch Beauty List and what gap in the market are you looking to fill? So I'm launching a beauty, health and wellness platform. And the whole concept behind it is mindful media meets community coaching. So when we're talking about mindful media, we're being really mindful about what our particular community is looking for. And the women that we've spoken to, they want to be able to keep up with the platform. So they don't want to feel like they're missing loads of stories every single day. they don't want to feel like the same story is potentially being told over and over again and we're trying to slow everything down a little bit more so as women we were asking our community like how often are you reading articles people aren't reading articles seven eight articles a day and that's what magazines are uploading yes for seo so they're sort of doing their thing which is amazing and it works but i think there's this new kind of niche that we're trying to fill of slower living and highlighting people a bit more.

29:57So all of the girls that we've shot with, we're doing interviews with and talking about their lives and what beauty and wellness means to them. And the concept of Beauty List is to live a beautiful life. So we want to go a bit deeper into the founders. So just opening it up a bit and trying to tell stories of people that potentially haven't had theirs told because they aren't a huge figure on social media or they might not have huge budgets for PR and marketing because there's so many stories in this city and international that we want to tell. Tell me about when you and Morgan sat down and discussed it

30:37Tessa: and came up with the idea. So Morgan and I, I think we were both at the same point in our careers where we were trying to decide what our next step was going to be. A big thing for us is, so she was a huge diver and got me into diving. I think as women get, and men get a bit older, we get a little bit less adventurous and we don't see the beauty in life as much. So we're trying to encourage people to be a bit more adventurous and organize trips and not always just have, you know, when people host events, I love them. But it's always, it seems to be yoga or we're always boxed in. How can we elevate it and expand it and push people's boundaries a little bit more?

31:24We're starting off as an editorial platform. And every month there will be a theme and there'll also be a downloadable coaching document, which we're working with some brilliant people on. And then it will expand to be a membership and then hopefully a boutique. But as much as it's going to be a Dubai-based platform and telling a lot of local stories, we do hope that we get an international readership and community as well. And yeah, we have to see where it goes. I mean, I think our biggest problem and why it's taken us so long is we have these big grand ideas and we're thinking so much into the future.

32:02So we're just trying to focus and keep it really specific right now. We're not aiming to be the biggest platform, you know, out there as well. we do just want to make sure our community is really happy with what we're producing. And I think a lot of brands are looking at that now. That's not even Instagram. All the reports coming out now are proving it's not about numbers. It's about engagement. The whole point is to kind of break a few beauty stereotypes and boundaries. And we were working with this incredible photographer that we grew up with. And she knows a lot of the models here personally.

32:36So I said to her, I want to find models who actually have an amazing reputation for who they are, their personalities. So that was the first time I really went into it as well and pushing forward with the rest of our shoots that are coming up. We also want to focus on who we're shooting and working with. So you're looking for a lot more than a pretty face.

32:55Tessa: You're looking for an ambassador for your brand. How important is that for you? I think it's incredibly important now because shoots are quite fleeting as well. They're not what they used to be, where it's in print for the month and that's all people are looking at. Social media makes everything a lot more diluted.

33:17So tell us about Jeannie & Co. So Jeannie & Co. was created as our kickoff point because we wanted to be self-funded in order to really stick to our ethos and do what we wanted to do. We've had a few offers of financial help, but then we lose what we really want to do and control. So Jeannie and Co., we do content and copywriting.

33:44Tessa: What types of clients do you work with and how do you bring your editorial expertise into your consulting work? So we have worked with a biohacking studio here where we were helping with consulting on how to place themselves in the market. they were also one of the first in the region to be offering whole body cryotherapy, red light therapy. So it was how we could educate their audience. And then Morgan also did a little bit of PR for them and social media. And then we've been working, we've worked with a few clinics, hair salons. So really just working across consulting in terms of marketing, the running of the business, secret shopping, which is so important.

34:30That's where we've actually seen a lot of changes happen through that. And then I obviously absolutely love copywriting. So I'm working on a few foodie projects as well. And then freelance. So my last big project was helping to launch, relaunch Vogue Arabia in the region with Condé Nast. And I did a lot of beauty and wellness for them and a few articles in the March issue the relaunch issue so lovely so it's lovely to

34:58Tessa: still be involved oh it's so it's so lovely yeah yeah and it's it's still that little girl just screaming like ah I actually I was on an aeroplane and as I was leaving I hadn't seen an issue yet and as I was leaving I just someone had it in in their pocket and I just saw the top I was like ah pulled it out my husband was just laughing as I'm like hugging it walking along so yeah so to see your work now and things you do makes you as proud and excited now as it did when you first started yeah it does and I think maybe because I haven't been in print for um a little while with Vogue it was it was that rejig you get so used to it and I'm always telling people to especially we've worked with a lot of female founders as well to appreciate the little moments because you kind of achieve something and you're like okay on to the next very very easy to do that isn't it yeah so easy and i'm you need to appreciate this as well you're sitting in dubai doing a podcast i know i know how incredible is this i know it's especially with the sun setting look it's absolutely beautiful out there is it look at that beautiful light but it's just taking a moment and going i'm here and i did this and yeah and i think that's as well with models when when they're doing these shoots just take a moment when you're in the chair getting your hair and makeup done yeah and be grateful and go wow i've achieved this i'm here yeah it's the same Same thing, they're sitting in the chair and they're looking at their phone thinking, oh God, what time have I got to be at the airport to go off to the next shoot?

36:22Tessa: Yeah, no, you're right, you're right. What trends are you currently seeing in brand storytelling and digital content creation? Founders first. So absolutely the founders first and we've been saying this for so long and even back in the day when I was writing magazines, I remember trying to push to the publishers that as much as I didn't want to be, I just wanted to be the quiet person behind the camera. people are trusting people it's not just a brand anymore and as my sister always says everything's on the market now you're now buying into a personal story so modeling is the same thing people are buying into your story now it's not just about a pretty face that's really interesting you say that because obviously I'm a founder and I'm very happy to be in the background and I've said no to everything for years what advice would you give to a founder of a business what should they be doing you're not by yourself you're not alone um so when we were trying to get our founders to do camera stuff as well they were always terrified especially like one or two of them english wasn't their first language so it's difficult to be in front of the camera it's really daunting um but everything can be refilmed we can do retakes and just build up the confidence you don't need to be amazing live on camera straight away just go slowly um and trust your team around you they're there to support you and if you don't have a team trust your family or friends um and everyone's doing it you just got to be brave don't worry about what you look like as you say trust in your team get in front of the camera you will cringe you will cringe you will think you look awful you will think you sound awful but just trust in the process and it does get easier and you don't need to be perfect because that's what I know again cheesy but it's what makes you beautiful because you look at other people and you think I could never do that you know they're just incredible you know they're they're confident that's what they do all the time but they started somewhere as well and they probably can't look at what they know they started doing no no but everyone says that to me people that have been interviewed for years you know they say oh god I can't listen to anything I've done it you know makes me want to dive under the table and you think really i probably won't listen to this i'll get morgan to listen to it and i'll be like people keep saying oh your video on your website looks great and i'm like i can't even watch it no it was really fantastic you're a natural um so i'd like to ask you about you know crafting the perfect interview like when you're preparing to interview people how do you tailor your research and questions to bring out fresh perspectives one of the best interviews i think is the guy that does hot wings have you ever seen it on youtube so he interviews celebrities while they're eating hot wings hot sauce and the hot sauce gets hotter as you go along and i think it's the most genius interview because he takes people's minds off what they're being asked um and sort of puts them on the spot but also his background knowledge i think he now has a huge team but every time almost every time he interviews a celebrity they're always like how did you know that because he's really taking the time to research who they are.

39:28I mean, with the advancements in AI, chat GPT, you can now put in, oh, I'm interviewing this person. Can you do some interview questions for me? But I think people see through that now.

39:39Tessa: I think we've got to, you know, move on to understand AI. You know, that's obviously a new disruptor, isn't it, in the industry? But you've got to use it. We have. But then I think we mustn't just rely on that. we've got to then you know use it to increase our knowledge and and help us you know not just to completely make us redundant the only part so i i was very lucky i went on a retreat um last year with deepak chopra and kate moss was there i was meditating with kate moss so that could be enough um but he was he was really uh interesting the way he said it and because it was coming from him not like a tech genius who was pushing it he said it's like the invention of the wheel the invention of colour TV or you have to get on board with it because it is going and it is going to change our reality and very quickly more so than I think anything else has but even he has the most fascinating book that's just come out about AI and he's even saying you can use AI for wellness and ask it questions and I have done it I do say please and thank you I have named my chat GPT yes Me too.

40:45I've got Gordon. Mine's Celine, after Celine Dion. Excellent. Reliable and just fantastic. Yeah.

40:54Tessa: And obviously, you know, some people that you interview obviously have very prepared answers. How do you break through that and get to something more genuine? Sometimes you can't. Sometimes you try and you get stopped straight away. It's just about finding the humanity in them. like celebrities are really just humans as well and a lot of them get nervous and so it's just showing them that you're not out there to kind of get them and trip them up I think I've been lucky the fact that my job has never been that it's always to highlight the best of someone the other the other type of magazines that write interesting headlines they're probably yeah going after them a bit more but so I was trying to get an interview with a celebrity and no one else had managed to get this interview and I sat with their manager and I was just explaining that I wasn't out to get this person and we did just want to tell a beautiful story.

41:48And it actually worked and I pulled it off and got an exclusive with a celebrity that had been interviewed for a few years and he was just explaining how much her mental health had been destroyed and damaged by the way media had been twisting what she was saying.

42:01Tessa: Yeah, they pull a headline that actually a lot of the time has nothing to do with the story that they've got. It's crazy. And you think, oh, they're a celebrity, they're fine, they're probably sat in their mansion. No, they're not a human being. They're absolutely human, and I think we forget this on a day-to-day. Everyone you come across is a human and going through their own issues.

42:27Tessa: Do you prefer being interviewed or interviewing? Oh, gosh, interviewing 100%. I never know what I'm going to say and then I'll listen to this interview and go, oh, I shouldn't have sent that, shouldn't have told that story. But I think that's my sisters and my brand and why we wanted to create Beauty List as well, to have a bit more freedom and not be worried about what we're letting out the bag. Yeah. Many models struggle with public speaking or expressing their personalities in interviews, which is becoming more and more important now. especially you know a lot of clients now especially since covid want self-tapes what advice would you give them to make them more engaging practice makes perfect so don't be a one-hit wonder you don't need to do it in the first take and if you're really struggling i'd say get a friend that you really love and trust and get them they're asking you questions so your kind of love for them comes out on the camera i get that a lot with myself i say i'm working on a brand deal I find it really hard to I might be finding it really hard to film something and then I'll be like Morgan you need to come over and help me and she just knows how to bring out the authentic me and and to make me laugh and I think massively obviously models know this and it's it's what you guys work on um but you can see everything in your eyes you can see if someone's nervous and don't be nervous take a few deep breaths but it does take a while I think it does take a while and it's so and obviously it's okay to be nervous and it's okay for everything not to be perfect but don't not do something because it isn't perfect and don't not post something because it isn't perfect because you have to start and build from there and no one's really judging you that much and everything doesn't last for that long anymore it's not you know going to be on the front page of the news if you if you mess up a word or something um so just keep keep going

44:31Tessa: you've built such a multifaceted career what do you think has been the key to your success I think work ethic is the most important thing um I will be doing a full-time job but I'll be working on little side projects or I'll be on the weekends I will be doing courses to further expand my knowledge constantly reading books and not I mean it's great to have a niche and for a lot of people that works but also opening your mind up to the world and trying new hobbies or doing something that you would never do or looking you know for new community groups and trying something new I think is so important and honestly I think nowadays is keeping up with everything that's changing in the world of tech, like be on all of the newsletters.

45:17If there's one message you'd like to leave our listeners with, what would it be? Be kind. Kindness is so overlooked sometimes, but it's such a small industry. And I think I have so many amazing friends and colleagues and peers who I've known for so long and we've built our careers next to each other. And also with juniors as well. I have a lot of interns who used to work at Vogue that still write to me now or come up to me when we're out there like, oh, we really loved working with you. You were one of our favourite people there because I always tried to give them time as much as I may have been busy, you know, just try and inspire people.

45:55But I just really think it is, it just, it comes down to kindness and knowing that everyone has their own struggles and it's not always easy because sometimes we're tired or jet lagged or we're having a bad day ourselves. But if you can just make one person smile a day, it makes it does make a huge change in our crazy world. And I think the biggest lesson I've learned, we're all so competitive. And I've had a few people like I had to bring up Anita from Viva who showed me that it isn't all a competition. And if we make a bigger cake, there's and that you can only do by working together. There's a slice for all of us.

46:33So don't be put off if you see someone else doing what you're doing. work together then do something together

46:42Tessa: thank you so much Alexandra for sharing your story and insights with us today

46:53Tessa: if today's conversation has shown us anything it's that beauty isn't just about what's on the outside it's about wellness confidence carving your own path and kindness to find out more head over to beauty list which is b-e-a-u-t-i-l-i-s-t.com and genieandco.com which is g-e-n-double-i-andco.com thank you for listening to the business of modeling subscribe to get the next episodes as they're released see you next time