Anita Nayyar, Founder & CEO of ANT Management

0:00Welcome to the business of modelling, the fascinating world of the modelling industry.

0:06Tessa: I'm Tessa Dewing, Managing Director of Sandra Reynolds, a commercial model agency celebrating its 50th year of business. Today I'm recording in beautiful Dubai and I'm delighted to welcome Anita Nayyar, a globally successful model turned entrepreneur. With an international modelling career spanning many years, Anita worked with some of the biggest brands and designers before transitioning into the business side of the industry.

0:37Tessa: As the founder of Ant Management, a fresh and dynamic agency in Dubai, she's carving out a space for new talent while leveraging her extensive industry experience. Despite being a relatively new agency, Ant Management has already begun making a mark in Dubai's competitive modelling scene. Anita's first-hand experience as a model gives her a unique perspective on the industry, allowing her to build an agency that understands and supports talent. She joins us today to share her story, insights and what it takes to build a successful agency from the ground up in a rapidly evolving market. Anita, hi.

1:16Tessa: Thank you for being here today. Thank you for having me. So let's start with your background and your early life. Can you tell us, you know, where did you grow up and how did your surroundings influence your ambitions? So I was born and raised in Dubai. Actually, my mom is a fashion designer and I started modeling when I was like probably, I don't know, seven, eight. so we would go back to China where she would do her production and then I would model for a lot of her garments so majority of the time my mom was the inspiration and what basically pulled me to modeling and it's something that I've always wanted to do since I was a kid.

1:58Tessa: Wow and what kind of designer? She designs wedding and evening gowns. Wow okay. So she used to have 10 stores back in the years and now she only has like one store in JBR but my sister was also part of the business now my sister has changed her career in real estate but yeah. And so you were educated here in Dubai were you? Yes actually I did my school here and then I went to University of Essex but I did it was like an offline course so equivalent to pretty much like studying full-time But because I was modeling so much, I couldn't attend all the time. So, yes, I went to the University of Essex.

2:41And what did you study there?

2:43Tessa: Business management. Right. OK. So were you planning a career in business at that point? Or was it something you knew you had to have something alongside modeling and that's what interested you? Every time I would go to a modeling contract, people would always tell me that you're not just a model. Because they would talk to me and I would have all these weird things that I would talk to them. Always very business oriented, even with modeling. I didn't know that I would open my own agency, but I did know that I would do something related to business all the time. Because every time I was modeling, you know, we have so much time.

3:19I was always either studying. I was always studying. I was either studying for school or I was studying for university. Yeah.

3:26Tessa: And you were interested in more than just turning up and being a model. You wanted to understand what everybody did on the shoot. Actually, at some point I got like really bored at jobs that I started because when I was away in New York, that's how it all started. People would ask me, OK, if you're not here, can you recommend someone? And then, you know, that's how it basically started. Yeah. And were there any experiences or people during your sort of early years who particularly inspired or shaped your career path? I think you probably say your mother after. My mom was like obviously the backbone of why I started, but I was always very ambitious and I always wanted to challenge myself.

4:04So I would always just, you know, I told my mom at like 16, I'm going for my first contract in Thailand. That's when I finished school. So I said, okay, I'm going. and then at 17 I went to New York completely by myself got my own visa so probably my mom yeah

4:21Tessa: I would say so and it sounds like she gave you a good work ethic like you saw her growing up working hard yeah yeah um so what you obviously were modeling for her when you were young so I guess did you start modeling in Dubai while you were still finishing your education and then you went off to Thailand from here or what what kind of jobs were you doing here before you went so I my first modeling job was with my mom when I was like uh nine uh I did like a it was like a show for a shopping mall and my mom actually paid for me to be there because nothing was fitting because I was too skinny and then after that I did my first show like when I was 12 with all the adult models and because my mom was doing a lot of shows in Dubai as well I would walk with a lot of older models that later on like when I was 16 they were still modeling with me so there is a girl her name is Vesna she was holding my hand like maybe six years and then like six years later I was modeling with her already doing the adult job so so at that point you were kind of looking up to yeah yeah Yeah, exactly.

5:34I was always put in rooms with them. Yeah. And like I remember like small things like borrowing her lipstick when I was like 10 or 11. So that's, yeah, that's how I started.

5:44Tessa: So you were obviously with an agency here in Dubai and they linked you with an agency in Thailand. Is that how your first trip worked? I was with Diva. Yeah. It's like one of the oldest agencies in Dubai. That was my first agency in Dubai. and no I just said I want to go to I actually wanted to go to Milan but that didn't work out so I said okay let me start with Asia I think somebody scouted me like off internet so I said why not you know my mom checked everything and then I started my modeling career I was always very ambitious I said I know I want to model I know I want to travel I want to gain experience I want to go to New York that was my end game to go to New York and how long did it take you to get there?

6:29It took me probably like two years because I had to collate like all the editorial images. That's why I was going to Asia. And I was very persistent with New York because the first time I went to New York, I didn't get signed when I went to see all the agencies. So you took yourself

6:48Tessa: there and then went round to the agencies. You weren't represented before you went. I was represented by Jam Model Management. It's a mother agency. Right. So they would help me set up some meetings there and they were my mother agency in the beginning. Yeah, I just I was always I always wanted to know, like I knew that I'm going to do this. So I just went to New York. First time I got rejected from majority of the agency, they said, oh, you know, you don't have a working visa. It's so difficult. And I actually got it scouted in Paris from a New York agency. So it was kind of like all very weird how it happened.

7:28Tessa: And when you first, on your first trip to New York, I guess you paid your own ticket and your own expenses. Everything. And when you went around the agencies, who did you want to be with? Who was the agency you walked in and thought, I really want to be with them? I went to Wilhelmina and they loved me. They all loved me, but they were like, you don't have working papers. We're not going to, you know, do your visa. How did you get around that? Talk us through that. Well, that's when I actually, it was so weird. I went to Paris. There's a lot of like sad moments in the modeling career, especially internationally, because in Dubai, the models have it so easy here.

8:03You know what I mean? But internationally, there's way more competition, way more agencies. And I remember I was with Citi in Paris and it was going OK, but I wasn't getting any jobs like it was option, option, option and then everything would just fall apart and I remember that's so disheartening when you're in that situation it is and then I remember I was just like crying like bawling sitting by a tree somewhere in Paris in a freaking park I was so sad and after that uh I think I got a message on Facebook like they're looking for showroom models you know I was like since I'm here I might as well so there was an american brand called monse they saw me they liked me i had like really short hair then um the the ceo of monse renee she was very sweet but they're basically a sister brand of oscar de la renta and uh i worked with for them in paris and they're like you know we really love you why don't you like come to new york and the person who scouted me for the job where they were new york based so i was like okay so they already knew that i had a client and then they're like okay let's start working on your visa and the first time was like when I came with an agency was with EMG Models in New York it's a very small boutique agency but I love Angelina

9:25Tessa: a lot who is my agent and they're still your agent now right now yeah but now I'm moving more into acting so but she was like the eye-opener for me and um she she really helped me and you know helped me to come to New York and do all my working papers and always been there for me since ever.

9:53Tessa: Can you tell us about some of the most exciting or memorable experiences from your time as a model? I think when I walked for a Christian Siriana show and it was on top of the rock in New York, that was a big show um you know there was everyone uh and you can name it like drew barrymore lindsey lohan they were all watching the show and it was a very proud moment for me because i've been like working so hard to get there um just like yeah and then i did a show for badgely mishka and i still love them to death they're like my family my like my team I was doing showroom for them that's a funny story I was doing showroom for them and fittings and then that was not so long ago that was like maybe a year ago and they they they wanted me for the show but you know it's a process to do the show so everybody was pushing for me to the casting director that because I was fitting I was doing fittings for the show and uh and then finally like after a while they saw they really liked the designers like me and they're like okay you got the show that was also another strange way of getting the show you know and that's another proud moment for me because it's a very big international brand did you do the fashion weeks did you have the experience of going from yeah you look Milan Paris yeah I did New York I I went to Milan.

11:31Milan was the first place that I went before New York. Milan was I did a show for Mario DJ for Rocco Barocco. I did a few shows over there. But again, it was tough.

11:44Tessa: Yeah. So those weeks are exhausting for the models. Yeah, because you're going to castings like in the middle of nowhere. You're going for unpaid shows for paid just to get yourself out there. And, And, you know, the Mario DJ was like a nightmare. Like they would put me on option. They would ask me to come for the fitting. Then they will tell me to go back and then they'll ask me to come for a fitting again. And then it's all till the day before the show until you get confirmed. I know that it's a nightmare for the agency to try and, you know, try and sort of get everybody into the shows they want.

12:19Tessa: And get the confirmations. um what were the most challenging aspects of being a model the things that you had to navigate especially with fashion weeks it's uh it's kind of like luck probably luck you know if you're the right fit for that season and it's always just keeping yourself motivated because after some time a lot of girls get demotivated they cry and it from coming from the other side now you just understand it's a show it's not the end of the world but me when you were telling me I'm not gonna get the show after being on option for so long that was like the end of the world and I would cry for days and that's the other thing it's just always believing in yourself and not letting anyone to put you down because this unfortunately this increases a lot of the models become sick they become they anxious anxious they lose um all their confidence you know what i mean and it's just it just shows it has modeling it's just like you go there you give your 100 they don't want you it's their loss and that's what the girls need to understand but unfortunately a lot of them i've seen a lot of girls in new york because new york is not an easy market they really hate on themselves and they they they become depressed and that's like the last thing that you want to you know you want to be what lessons did you learn when you were modeling um that helped prepare for you running an agency i think just you know being very like observant like like you know like just like my brain is like a sponge I'm just watching everything understanding everything and of course like you know Angelina in EMG Models in New York she really helped me a lot she helped me to start the agency the softwares that we use and that's all from what I saw her doing because we came very close and she was nice enough to encourage me to do it actually and just seeing everything, how they work, you know, and just her constantly talking to me about it.

14:38I think that was one of the main things. And then, of course, as well as a model, when I was working as an agent as well here in Dubai, before opening my own modeling agency, I wanted to see what's actually on the ground to understand the rates, like what kind of clients, everything. So I did that for three years while I was modeling. And then I was like, okay, now I think I'm confident enough to open my own agency.

15:07Tessa: If you're looking back, is there anything you wish you'd known when you first started modeling? What do you tell your models now, your young models, that you wish somebody told you? At the end of the day, the agencies, some do care about their models, some don't. And there's a lot of girls that they come to New York, they work on tourist visas, the agency promises them business visas for later on. They leave, they take pocket the money, and they never cross each other's path. So things like this is very important because a lot of the times the models do get deceived, they get mistreated. Thankfully, in the Middle East and in Dubai, it's very modest.

15:48So of course, we have situations where models don't get paid. but in terms of like you know harassment this rarely happens here but it happens a lot in the international world so I wish that there was someone that was there to guide me to tell me that okay you have a set amount of years you need to go to Paris, Milan you know while you're young don't waste your time in Asia because even with mother agencies they they a lot of them like I was always pushing for myself. I was like, okay, I want to do this. I want to go here because I know I want to be there in the next six months. How do we make that happen?

16:28But unfortunately, the mother agencies, they think in the interest of themselves because at the end of the day, they need to make money. So the first place they send you is Asia, China. So it's very important as a model to know what you want so you don't stay in the same rotation for a long time.

16:51Tessa: Your transition to entrepreneurship, I think, how old are you? I am 28. Okay, but I think you were only 25 when you started our management, which is really young. What made you decide to make that transition from modeling to agency management? I was kind of like, I was tired of agencies here. They weren't paying on time. and in the beginning I thought okay I'm gonna open an agency I'm gonna model there so I can just you know get everything on time obviously that kind of like turned because we grew much bigger than I expected and that was the main reason is that I wanted to set standards better standards for models and I wanted to also help models you know at the end of the day you know naturally you obviously are an entrepreneur, you're interested in business.

17:48Tessa: And I guess you're then you've you've modelled around the world. So you've learned how the industry works. So it just made sense. Yeah, exactly. Somewhere that you want to be based and you want to settle to set up your business here and to do something that you love and that you understand. What challenges did you face in launching a new agency? And I mean, Dubai is already fairly competitive market. So what What challenges did you find? My journey was very challenging. When we made an official announcement about the agency, obviously we got some backlash, we got some threats, not direct threats, but, you know, models wouldn't work with us, you know, from other agencies.

18:35But, you know, we kept our head down, we did our thing, and God is with me so who can be against me right um we just kept our head down because I was working in an agency as a model for many years since I was a kid here so obviously that um a lot of people were not happy about it but I have the right this is my country I was born here you know my family is from here I have all the support from my family and friends here you know think like this is it's like a blessing and yeah I mean now they everybody has accepted it so we you know we just gotta provide the professional business that we have to.

19:20Tessa: Yeah and you say God is with with me does religion is it a big part of your life how does that shape? Yes religion is a big part of my life since I got married to my husband Montel. I feel like when you put God in the center of your business your relationships and your relationships towards models everything changes um especially when you enter such a big you know it's it's a it's a big thing to run your own company and have employees so you want the right people and you don't you don't want to deal with situations that you don't have to and i feel like yes religion is a very big part

20:04Tessa: could you outline the vision and the ethos behind ant management and how does it stand out from other agencies in dubai well in the beginning our main focus was to bring diversity is to have different types of models not like the clients don't need to come for a specific type we wanted to diversify from all ethnicities, all sizes, all ages. And that's what we're focusing on. We are on top of our game. We appreciate all our clients. You know, we try to give them fast responses and just like a better kind of better relationship, better outlook for future collaboration. I think that's very important because at some point when you get too big, kind of like don't care anymore replies are later you know and we just try to hit on everything as much as we can and that's why we have also expanded our team to six people now so that we just can allow and to be there for everyone you know that needs the service and how have your personal experiences as a model shaped the way you run your agency and support your talent I think as a model, it's very important to have stability because you're traveling from countries to countries.

21:23So as much as we can as an agency, we try to push our models for them, you know, to make a good, like they leave with money after their contract, especially the international models, because I've been to contracts where I would make nothing like for six months. And I just feel that's ridiculous. You know what I mean? You shouldn't even be there. even if the agency knows that they can't get you jobs. So as much as we can, we try to keep that. Of course, there are, you know, situations where the model didn't work enough or it was just a bad season for her. But this is one main thing is to provide stability for them to be able to do things in their life.

22:07Tessa: Because of the experience you've had modeling, do you find it easier to guide and mentor your team like when you're taking on new bookers and things how do you yeah of course I mean you know um a lot of our bookers they heart they came either from production or different venues basically professionally so we had to teach them um our head booker our manager Petrine she has actually she's been with me for like four years since I started the agency um she has nothing to do with modeling. She was a chef before. So she learned everything on her own together. You know, I teach them, you know, I tell them what kind of clients, what kind of models.

22:52And, you know, with progress, it works out.

22:58Tessa: What do you look for when you're scouting models? How do you know when you found someone really good? To be honest, it's like, because I've seen so many models and who works and who doesn't in the market it's just kind of like uh like I just well obviously we get a lot of feedback from our clients who they want to see more what they like and we try to really offer that but then also have a very good eye so I kind of like know what will work and what won't what is photogenic and what is not um and is that something you can teach someone or do you think somebody either has that eye I think it's right out of experience out of experience and you have to come from some sort of artistic background to understand what the photographers see what do the clients want to see what are they marketing so I think out of experience most of all

23:58Tessa: Dubai is known for its multicultural population. I think it's rare from everybody I've spoken to who nobody seems to be from Dubai. They all seem to be from somewhere else. So you're saying you're born here. That must be the generations kind of now starting. Yes, exactly. Do you think that the modeling industry here is truly inclusive yet? Inclusive as in like diverse? diverse um with all ethnicities at this point yes because we have people from all over the world coming to Dubai to shoot their campaigns people from London from New York so there's always uh they're always asking maybe for Asians for black models for blonde so it has become diverse but it wasn't like this 10 years ago my friend Ayan uh she was like the first black model 10 years ago in Dubai actually.

24:53Wow, yeah. So things have changed a lot drastically and now potentially everybody can work because we have all kinds of brands from all over the world shooting here.

25:07Tessa: Yeah, and I think brands are now looking to, they want to represent their customers, don't they? They want the models they use to be relatable to their customers. Not all sort of 18-year-old, six-foot models. You have still those clients, which is like in Fashion Week, we had Roberto Cavalli. So they're typical from Milan. They want that blonde, blue eyed, 16 year old look. But a lot of our brands, like the giving movement, they're changing their ways, how they're marketing to their clients because they want to see more relatable people. So some of our models that get booked for the jobs doesn't have to be necessarily a model, can be a cast, you know, just a pretty girl in fitness wear, for example.

25:49Also for commercials, it's very different. So for sure, the ideology of a typical model has changed. And I'm sure coming from the UK, you definitely know that. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

26:02Tessa: Tell me about Dubai Fashion Week. When did that start? And how's that? So before it was called Arab Fashion Week, and that's when I was doing it myself. There was a casting director of Dolce Gabbana who was like in backstage. There were designers like Laquan Smith who was here. And then they have changed everything. The council has become Dubai Fashion Week and they got on the official calendar. so that is definitely a big thing because they are trying there was a season where they brought carolina herrera and um naomi campbell you know um so they are trying to bring the bigger designers here so the buyers from paris and milan they start to come here i mean that's the end goal for fashion capital because that's where the the whole busyness is yeah and uh the middle east is is actually a much bigger market than Dubai, isn't it?

27:02Tessa: I know you work in Kuwait, Saudi. Tell me, tell me about that. Is Dubai the biggest or? Dubai is definitely like the most commercial. Yeah. So if you were, you know, if you're a designer and you want to get like different options of models, you will get plenty here because there's a lot of agencies. But in Kuwait, it's very small market and the demand is very high. And who are your clients in Kuwait? They, well, Riva Choice are one of our biggest clients. They're a modest wear brand. They also did Dubai Fashion Week. Then we have just like different Abaya designers, makeup brands. And it's quite busy, actually.

27:45It's very busy. And because there's not many agencies and not many options for the clients to choose, the rates are slightly higher than in Dubai. Saudi is still developing. just the other day we had a model who something happened with her residency in Dubai so she couldn't fly to Saudi so we had to find someone in Saudi just to cover for her for one day that was quite not difficult but you still don't get that you know it's Louis Vuitton like it's a the models are not that kind of standard obviously but it's definitely a bigger market they have a you know a lot of investment a lot of things there was Red Sea Fashion Week that we did um i think last summer so there is definitely room for growth and it's growing but i wouldn't say there's like an international agency that's kind of like bringing models on stay there as of yet do you think that the concept of female beauty in the middle east differs from the western perception of beauty a hundred percent like 120 because um when i was modeling i so when i would go to a casting they would be like oh you're from dubai that's so new like we've never heard that and they couldn't really place me like i'm half indian half russian but i don't look either so like what am i so they would automatically put me like in the arab section that she's Arab.

29:16And a lot of the times, actually in Milan, they wouldn't take me because it's not what they were looking for six years ago. It was still that typical beauty. And I think New York was the only place where I found like it was home because they were open to girls with big eyes, with brown hair and more of that ethnic look. You know what I mean? So yes, the West definitely has a total different perception of beauty yeah i think but now maybe in the uk it's more open

29:46Tessa: yeah oh definitely i mean i think we i think we're good in the uk we've really kind of pushed the boundaries and i think you know we're seeing i mean our agency is very commercial but we're seeing models of all ages all all types all sizes all ethnicities models with disabilities clients really wanting to promote that and sort of use that in their campaigns um which is which has been great no 100 i've seen it in new york um in london i'm sure paris is getting there milan's getting there but again they're a bit i think they're still a little bit behind they just started accepting like plus size models and middle-aged models so yeah so what percentage of your talent is from dubai um or based in dubai versus international talent it's a very small minority because of obviously religious beliefs the typical female is not a model but in the sense that you know her family might not be comfortable doing the job but we have a lot of hijabi models who are emirati and you know they do different projects like for sportswear brands or more for commercials that's where we use the more emirati talents yeah and when you're bringing international models in do you bring them on stay or or do you bring them in for direct bookings how does that work we bring for both um at the moment we have two model apartments so we always have 15 to 20 models on stay and then of course we have we've previously flown models for direct bookings for like jamera i mean for like for shein for dubai fashion week we brought in 30 models from russia so yes okay and where do they do you tend to bring models in from the same mark different markets same countries or do you to be honest we have like expanded our search to everywhere because it's been only like let's say two to three years that we're working but the models we need always new models we bring girls from ukraine from russia from turkey from even Colombia, Peru.

32:02We have a girl now from, she's from the US. So it's just, you know, all over the place.

32:09Tessa: And how does it work with the visas? So if a model from the UK wanted to come and work in Dubai, be a model in Dubai, base herself here, what would she need to do? So if she wanted to live here, she would have to open a residency visa. But if she's just coming here on a short time, Often all the models, they work on a tourist visa. But that's because we are basically contracting their mother agency and the payment transaction goes through the mother agency. But often models like we have a model called Rebecca. She's Lebanese and she's been working with us for a very long time. So she's planning to do her residency here because she wants to live here for like base herself out of here.

32:51Tessa: Yeah. OK. So with a residency visa, what do you need for that? Not much. I mean, sometimes we help models and we see if we can, you know, do the residency for them. But a lot of them, they open their own companies. You can open like basically like a license as an artist for yourself. Sometimes we help them. Sometimes they have, you know, parents that have companies here so they can sponsor them. So it's, to be honest, to open a license in Dubai, it's not much. So do you need to have a sponsor? Do you need to have somebody that's going to be proving that you're going to be employed? Yes, if you are being sponsored, but if you wish to open your own entity.

33:37Tessa: So you could be freelance or self-employed? Yes, self-employed pretty much. So you can open like a free zone license for like 12 ,000 dirhams. And, you know, there's a lot of makeup artists that they there's like a visa for artists. So they open their own company and then they sponsor themselves. Do you have models that come in, come in for work and then decide to stay and build a career? Yeah, for sure. I mean, we've had we have a few boys that, you know, they came with us on the contract and then they said they really loved it here and they decided to stay here permanently. Rebecca, as I mentioned, is one of them.

34:16She's because of the situations in Lebanon. She wants to live here now. So she's doing her residency visa all the time from a batch, you know, to any models, at least one or two want to stay. We have a Brazilian boy, Felipe. He's a DJ and a model. And he's been with us already here for like five months. So he's also working on his residency visa.

34:38Tessa: And what do models do as well as modeling? Obviously, we always try and encourage them to sort of have a second career that might be freelance or something that they can work alongside modeling. um what what do they tend to do here um or are there some of them are djs uh like boys we've had a lot of boys who are djs some of the models they they have like a they're like a coach like a trainer like a fitness trainer or even like a life coach like rebecca is a life coach but to be honest i would say i've seen often in the like in new york a lot of my friends that live in new york they would always get another job even as a hostess or a waitress because it's not enough that they would do for modeling.

35:23But a lot of models in Dubai, their solely income is just for modeling because you can be booked basically 25 days out of a month easily, whether it's a busy season or not, because we have e-commerce, which is kind of like on a rotation. So some models, they're real estate agents, which is, you know, it's kind of like a side hustle that they do. so yeah for sure.

35:51Tessa: Given that AMP management is a newer agency how have you approached building relationships with clients? I assume some relationships you already had as a model but how have you gone about that? I think that was the first I built relationships with those clients for working with them for so many years. I would work for them for five years non-stop six year so you obviously build that bond with the team and they being professional and always delivering as a model is what helped me to get their trust that I will deliver in my agency and I appreciate that it's a blessing and of course for all the new clients that we have you know we really try to keep a good relationship with them something that I learned from my agent in New York she would send like a monthly, not a monthly, like yearly gifts to all the clients around Christmas.

36:47So we do those kind of things. We do different events where we invite clients as well. So they feel like, you know, they're not just booking from some agency and there's no relationship there. So we really try our best to impress our clients for sure. Yeah. And can you share some of the clients that you work with? Yeah, of course. I mean, some of the biggest clients that we currently work with is Dior. We work with Gucci. We work with Louis Vuitton, Altair, Level Shoes, Bloomingdale's, Harvey Nichols. I mean, we work with everyone at this point. Shein is one of our very good clients as well. Namshi, Sixth Street Styli.

37:31There's a lot of them.

37:32Tessa: And have there been any standout projects that helped establish you in the industry here? Yeah, for sure. I mean, Xi 'an, for example, when we flew, you know, when our head booker, Petrine, she went on a trip with all the 30 models to Saudi. That's also like helps the agency to gain trust from the models. And of course, doing big events like Louis Vuitton, we had 40 models for their show. That was a few years back. working with people like Cartier, Dior, Chopard, Boucheron like of course that spreads the word you know what I mean and it does its job by itself also being part of big campaigns for Bloomingdale's and Harvey Nichols and mostly editorials as well having our models that makes me happy to have our model on an editorial because that's where that's where our mother agencies are happy that the girls are getting pictures and it also spreads the awareness of the agency.

38:34Tessa: So what project was it that was the particular sort of milestone, the turning point where you thought actually we've now made it, we're now up there with the other agencies in Dubai, the good ones? Obviously having, doing that show for Louis Vuitton, having basically all the models for Viva in choice during fashion week and supplying all the models for fashion week majority of them because that opened doors to get the other models extra shows as well so it's a very big chunk that we work on i think working with high-end brands really puts us out there and we essentially become a you know a threat to them a competition but as i said we keep our heads down we keep working and doing our business and that's how we roll basically and um have you had any funny or unusual situations happen that you can share with us yes actually um my husband's partner he's a lawyer and um he kind of looks like a model and we were like during fashion week there was a lot of they needed a lot of boys so we were like okay you know there's a show for manish malhotra They look for more GCC Arab look.

39:52You can try. So he actually went for the casting. He didn't get it. But there was another show that he did, which was for Le Benjamin. And it's a Turkish brand. And they liked that more quirky blonde look because he's bleach blonde. And he got the show. And he's a lawyer, never, ever modeled in his life. Did you have to teach him to walk? Yes, I taught him before his casting. And he got it. And like me and my mother-in-law, we were there at the casting and we were just like, oh, my God, this is insane. And he got the show. And that was like kind of funny because it was like his birthday wish. And I'm like, now you know what the models go through waiting all day for a show.

40:32But yeah, that's a funny moment.

40:35Tessa: And that's a great story for him to tell forever. For sure. I have a little story like that, which I always cringe. but when I oh gosh this is when I first met my husband and he's a grain trader agricultural grain trader doesn't look like a model at all and um a model dropped out or dropped out I think they were ill or something happened on one of the jobs and one of my bookers said is Andrew available we need your husband and I said well don't be so ridiculous anyway he did he did this job and And the client loved him. And then they rebooked him and took him to Tenerife or somewhere on the beach.

41:12Tessa: And he was running in and out of the sea with a surfboard in his swimming shorts. And it makes me cringe every time. And he loves that story. He loves to tell that story to anyone. It's definitely like a lifetime story for sure. I know, absolutely. 100%.

41:33Tessa: what makes Dubai particularly attractive for talent agencies and the broader creative production industry so a lot of agencies actually from abroad reached out to us like elite and they would always ask us like oh so how do you run your business here what do you do because it's very interesting to open your business here because of the income tax we don't have the income tax so that you know cuts down it's very beneficial for a business to open up here it's easy to set up a company it's easy to open a business account obviously you need to have a fund but that's all it takes so what becomes more attractive is that it's Dubai is literally the center of the world it's easy to get models here it's easy to open a business but in order to run your agencies you definitely need connections for sure yeah and is there much legislation what's legislation like here um no i wouldn't say so i mean i wonder does that leave the industry open to sort of exploitation in any way you mean like if there is like a group for the agencies yeah well yeah like kind of like regulated no unfortunately the industry is not regulated so because i know in in london or in in the uk i know we are constantly getting people that are saying putting social media ads out saying they're scouting for our agency i know all the agencies have this it's not just us and and it's very difficult to do anything so we just all just try to educate people that want to be models that don't do that go straight to an agency don't ever pay for anything don't but you know it's yeah that i just wondered if there was any kind of legislation or anything that says you can only take a certain commission and you have to pay your models within a certain amount of time that sort of thing which we do have in the UK but no I think this is the next step for Dubai they tried to do that at some point when I was a model but it didn't work so you could set up an agency and not pay your models or there's two agencies that closed down recently they didn't pay anyone three actually completely shut down and then the models can't do anything because they're they can't okay you can go to court you can go to court you can sue them but that takes time and money so unfortunately i think this is like the that's why as i said i've seen so many agencies open and close open and close and that's because just the way they run their business it's not for the talents it's for themselves to use the money elsewhere and the priority of paying a model was last but I can't sleep at night knowing that I can't I didn't pay that model you know what I mean of course yeah so I just feel like that is very important having morals having standards and just being loyal it's like they work for you so you work for them you know what I mean yeah 100 % so that's that unfortunately it's very common I wouldn't say common but we've had a lot of stories like that as I said three agencies closed down they didn't pay anyone and so in the UK an agency has to have a client account a legally set up client account so our clients will pay into the client account and then that is the model's money ring fenced and then the agency commission is taken out but I mean there's nothing to stop people agents taking it out of there I just thought they do I mean even with that we hear of agencies going bankrupt and models being left not paid so it's it's it's definitely common and there's a lot of smaller agencies that open up to try to cut the rates super low and um and you know there there are some they don't bring international talents but there are some girls that are okay to do it and um you know actually in the beginning when we opened a lot of the agencies were saying that we are cutting the rates and that we are um putting the rates low and I wouldn't say so because it's not true we have we are providing the same rates just like all other agencies and other agencies they have jobs for less because the hours are less or the usage is less so you know people will always talk different things and I feel like we try to be very fair and we always try to get advice from our partners and you know one of my partners that basically we always work on a lot of projects together is Michelle so if I Michelle hey so if I think something is you know I'm under uh budgeting the client I would call her I would check check it out you know and we try to make it fair um yeah but as I said people will talk this is the industry

46:27Tessa: and where do you see dubai's modeling industry heading in the next few years is it on the way to becoming a major fashion capital comparable with london new york milan i think it's already a major fashion capital it's beginning to even bloom more a lot of the brands are coming out here and not only here they're going to riad they're going to kuwait and they're opening stores and base because there is demand for basically the buying power here is very high because of the culture that they like to go out and they like to you know wear nice bags and shoes whether in the U.S. with the things happening going on the buying power is going less people are thinking before they spend money here they don't think they just spend so obviously that is attracting a lot of brands because at the end of the day it's about sales um and they are opening headquarters here and i feel like hopefully with a strong you know dubai fashion council is a very strong council that can bring those brands here and if we keep moving in the right direction and inviting i my dream to be honest is to have all the buyers coming out here to see lv to see dior because in you know in new york there's aside from um aside from just shooting campaigns and all that there's a very big market for showroom and that happens like all year long you know and if to bring something here which would give great stability to a lot of the models right now there's a lot of vvip trunk shows for client previews but there's no like okay there's there's buyers arriving at this time everybody's doing the basically the showroom days at these days you know so we're still getting there to be in the official calendar and for buyers to come out here I think your showroom and your e-commerce is kind of the bread and butter it's the work that can keep the models busy isn't it between doing the big campaigns for sure 100 % and the editorials and having knowing that there is an agencies in New York that they just work on showroom and fit But if we had a lot of brands, big brands move out of there and moved here, that would bring a lot of jobs for models as well.

48:51Tessa: What has been your proudest achievement since founding Ant Management? I think my team. I think it's very important to have a good team when you launch any business. It's the backbone of the business. And I feel like going down the line of expanding into more people, it's important to operate as a family. So we do dinners every Friday together. You know, they know all my personal things. I know about them. So it's not like a very corporate way of running an agency. We're very close. And I think that's very important. And how do you feel? So obviously, you're very close. That's a fantastic thing.

49:33Tessa: How do you feel if you have to make any, have quite a strong conversation with anybody? That makes it quite difficult if you're very close. They know when I'm like strict and they know when I'm like their friend. They respect that boundary. Yes. And they know when, they know I'm still the boss. But I don't want to be that boss that like just pushes them away. And I'm like, you know, this is my life and I'm not going to talk to you because you're lower than me. I don't believe in that. I believe that everybody's equal and that they are able to earn. You know, I always tell them, like, you want to earn more money?

50:07It's up to you. You have to get more bookings for the models. And they get that increase. And that, of course, also motivates them to do more and to work, you know, without, like, sometimes we work late hours as well. So, yeah, when I have to have that conversation, I have it and they know and they understand and we move on and I also have a manager that does that with them so I just have to tell her and she

50:34Tessa: does it what's the best piece of advice that you've received as a leader in the fashion industry best advice okay it's in Arabic and my friend told me about this and every time I call him with my problems he's like you know means whatever just leave it because you're gonna to have all these and you know going through business and dealing with certain situations um you just you're like this is business i have to do this justice will do itself whatever yeah sometimes in life it's like just pick your battles like don't get wound up by something this is business yeah now outside of business it's different that person outside of business might be your best friend but when it comes to business the hunger the ego everything is there so I'm just like you know what hilly-willy I don't mind and I tell my bookers I'm like don't stress this is our job yeah to accommodate you know models like we've had a lot of different experiences with models and chaotic situations but it's our job yeah so we gotta do it yeah I think I think what what I've sort of learned is also don't react straight away you know someone can send you something and you go oh and you want to fire something back and you think no just breathe just sleep on this and then you feel completely different think about it you know speak to different people yeah and then answer and what advice would you give to any model that might be looking to transition into agency work do your job 100 whatever you're doing do it 100 you're a model so all this time of your years that you're modeling you don't know what you will be doing in five years.

52:20Maybe those contacts, you'll be working for them. Maybe you will be hiring certain talents for them. You don't know. So you have to make sure that you are 100 % professional, that you're on time, that you're blending with the team. And that will basically benefit you in the future. But if you don't care about what you're doing right now, then whatever is coming doesn't work. I think just being professional is so, so important as a model. And that can really help you to establish yourself as a person and establish your career. And if you want to move something forward, people will respect you. And that's very important.

53:02Tessa: What's it like living in Dubai? What kind of person would thrive in Dubai if someone's thinking about coming to live here? You have to come from a city because a lot of people that came here they didn't like it's not enough nature it's not but i'm a city girl i love cities my husband's planning to take me to new zealand in summer i just got my visa today so i was like but i think i'll be just like this girl in his farm trying to get the wi-fi or the connection somewhere but um yeah i just feel like for anyone that's looking for opportunity for anyone that lived in the city and that loves the sun it's the perfect place So as you continue to grow your agency, what meaningful impact do you aim to create within your industry?

53:47Tessa: How do you hope your journey will inspire others? Just having that deeper meaning with talents that you represent, with clients. As I said, putting God first is so important and that influence that you're giving back to the other person is very important. Now, I know sometimes it doesn't happen because you don't find that connection with the person, but we go out of our way to do it with a lot of our models because we want to become like a home for them where, you know, they travel alone and they don't have family and they're away for sometimes a year. And we just want to make sure that they feel like it's at home, that they can come anytime.

54:29You know, we've dealt with models that had like, I don't know, like borderline bipolar kind of issues where we had to send them back home, but we wouldn't discard them. And this is what I don't like to see. A lot of agencies, mother agencies, as soon as something's wrong with the model, they just discard them like garbage. We don't do that. We try to, we go out of our way, we help them. Like, okay, we need to get you back home. We need to get you back home. And we really try to accommodate them. It's that relationship that matters with the model. It's very important. They need to feel that they're safe, that the agency that they're working with will help them no matter any situation.

55:15Tessa: Thank you so much, Anita. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It's been so lovely talking to you and hearing your story. It's really, really inspiring. A massive thank you for sharing your journey from ruling international catwalks to shaking up the Dubai talent scene with Ant Management. Anita's story proves that experience, passion and a whole lot of hustle can take you from in front of the camera to calling the shots behind it. If you're a model, an entrepreneur or just someone dreaming of making waves in this industry, I hope you've picked up some golden insights from Anita today. To find out more, head over to antmgmt.com.

55:55Tessa: Thanks for listening.