Ingo Nolden, Iconic Management, Berlin

0:02Welcome to the Business of Modeling, the podcast where we explore the fascinating world of the modeling industry. I'm Tessa Dewing, Managing Director of Sandra Reynolds, a commercial model agency celebrating its 50th year of business. I'm in Berlin, one of the most exciting creative cities in Europe, full of energy, talent and ideas. My guest today is someone who has spent more than three decades shaping the model industry and the careers of some of the industry's most recognizable faces. Ingo Nolden is the managing director and founder of Iconic Management, one of Germany's leading agencies with offices in Berlin, Hamburg and Munich.

0:44Before launching Iconic in 2006, Ingo worked internationally with powerhouse agencies like Viva in Paris and IMG in New York, where he helped manage some of fashion's biggest names. Ingo, thank you for joining us and welcome to the business of modeling. Thank you very much.

1:07I have an entrepreneurial family background and I grew up on all kinds of B2B fairs and exhibitions because my father, he had a fashion company. And I was growing up in the Dusseldorf, Rhein area in Germany, studied public relations and economy affairs. and I just wanted to strategize political campaigns for NGOs, specifically in the environment section, so I was in completely wrong territory. So I wanted to always save the world. That was my thing back then and I always had big dreams. What kind of fashion business, though, was your father in? It was like dresses. So he didn't manufacture them in Germany, but he was distributing them, selling them.

2:00Right, okay. So, and that's why we were on all those fairs. And I literally grew up there since I was a child, because my father was traveling. We've been always also traveling a lot. It was part of my routine. I'd never really time to get accommodated somewhere. And your university, was that in Dusseldorf? Yes, it was. Heinrich Heine University in Dusseldorf. Yeah, and there I did also a lot of research. And then, you know, I always liked to work behind the scenes, but have be vocal and have a strong, strong voice. And then I also had a girlfriend who became a model. And that actually started me to look more into magazines and kind of like fascinated me.

2:50and I started studying all the different teams who would work with who and literally spent hours in stores looking at all the magazines. I think sometimes people were thinking, who's that guy? He's never buying anything and he's checking all. But in the end of the day, the good thing was that basically I never knew the people, but I never met them, but I had the names in my head and I knew who would work with what stylist. She just wanted to know, yeah, who took the picture, how the picture came to life, who styled it, who, yeah, who shot it. Okay. Yes. And apparently then I became a little, like I would say, advisory to my girlfriend.

3:33And this is how it started. She got signed with a modeling agency. And then the owner of that modeling agency got quite curious, like, who is that person, you know, like in the background? and apparently, you know, people are usually a bit offended when there's a boyfriend. I was going to say that you were that annoying person that wanted to be trying to be her manager. And it was really funny though. It was just really in the beginning. And I remember like we didn't even, you know, I didn't even have a cell phone. So I would always have on that telephone, I would have a list with all the top photographers and the brands.

4:12And then when, you know, like someone would call, I would just say, well, it's not my list. But that's a secret. But it actually worked out great. So she became quite successful. And you started to build your client list, basically. Apparently, yeah. So it was just really the beginning. And apparently then, you know, later I got an offer from a modeling agency to work. I still remember, I became a fan of Heidi Gross back then because she had the elite agency and she was kind of famous with interviews. So she was kind of like, that's the person in Germany. And apparently, one day, her and I, we met at the airport.

5:02And from there on, we've been keeping talking at a meeting at the airport and kept talking. And then one day, a couple of weeks later, she was like, Ingo, I can't talk to you anymore. Either you quit the university and become, you know, move to Hamburg and become an assistant for me, working for me, or this is over. And then, you know, I had a thought for like a week. And then I told my professor like that I quit university. So you went to work for Heidi? Yeah. So you then moved to Hamburg. Yeah. And were your parents on board with this or did they want you to go down the business route more? My father was upset because he had different plans for me.

5:45So I grew up in a very, I would say, like Lord Order family. So very, very squared, very classic. Where did you go from Heidi? Because you then went to Paris and New York and worked in different agencies, didn't you? Absolutely. After some time, I realized Germany is not their... the hotspots. And I had my eyes on New York, of course. I applied at IMG, had a meeting with the young director called Ivan Bartz. And he was back then, he was a creative director. And there was another woman called Jen Planet, I think, and interviewed with her as well. Flew to New York. It didn't work out. They said, come back later, go to Paris first.

6:34And then I apparently followed that advice so Ivan you know one of my mentors he was in my life already in the very early days not so many people know that actually this is coming out world exclusive I flew to Paris and I met like two three agencies I think it was next Ivan sent me to IMG but there was someone already working in my position and so that didn't work and then you know I always loved Viva for their style and their corporate identity and how they manage the models. But then at some point, I had a meeting with Viva, and I met Cyril, and he rejected me. And then I flew back to Germany thinking about what I got to do with my life.

7:24And then a week later, I got a call that he changed his mind. And then, voila, it happened. And so on. And from there, actually, I met Ivan again because one day he came to Viva. And then I got another offer, like after working already a year or two at Viva. Then I was really involved with Paris and it was good for me. And then I didn't say I rejected, but I said, let's give it more time. And I want to develop myself a little bit more in Paris. and apparently that worked well as well. And then I moved to Paris a little later, moved to New York a little later. So how long were you with Viva in Paris?

8:11About like three and a half, four years. Okay, so you really learned the industry, the fashion industry, the editorial. Like honestly, the entire team, it wasn't easy, you know, because I didn't speak French in the beginning. So it was also difficult for me to learn French with that pace. but it's an amazing team. I learned a lot. Saif was back there. There was Cyril. They were amazing, amazing. They were amazing mentors. And I've learned so much. But it wasn't easy. And then you went then to New York. You moved to New York with IMG. Yeah. And what was that transition like? I think I made my name more in Paris.

8:52And, you know, obviously more focused on German clients back then because I barely spoke French. So I didn't understand in the beginning, but later you understand that everything needs time. And, you know, there's a way how to learn things in this industry. And you cannot just, like, chit-chat with a top model and just pretend they're all your friends, you know. So it's like there are particular rules, you know. There's certain lines you don't overstep. Also, how you talk, what you talk, et cetera. and you know if you learn everything from scratch and and you learn it it's it's um it's a really business and what was the industry like when you first started obviously it was like pre pre-digital pre-instagram you know if i remember you know the time when i when i started coming to hamburg There was this round table, we had these flip charts, tons of comp cards and telephones were constantly ringing, people jumping line to line and sometimes double line, triple lines.

10:08And it was buzzing. It was a different industry back then. And now you walk into an agency and you think there's nothing going on because it's silent. There's no telephones ringing. It's really silent. Sad. Yeah. You know, that's the energy. It can't really, you know, you don't feel the pulse anymore and you don't know. But I always remember someone said to me, you know what, if you're walking into a modeling agency and the phone's not ringing, something's wrong. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And apparently, you know, if you look at our office, you know, we don't have the fixed telephone lines anymore.

10:47We have direct diverts on the cell phones because, you know, clients call whenever they want and anyway and it didn't make sense for us anymore. So barely people call. Everybody prefers to have things in writing. So then they can also say, look, I wrote you this. Yeah, you didn't read that word. So, you know, it's sad. Yeah, different times. And I always remember, you know, Ivan, for example, he also said to me many, many times, Ingo, it's okay to call. So I think I'm still from this generation where there's something you want to solve with someone. You pick up the phone and call and not go back and forth in emails and accusing.

11:41At Viva, the primary focus was on fashion's A-list. No copy and paste. It was literally about to study each individual and work hand in hand. Every detail was important and carried on with care. So it was literally artistic work. And at IMG, it was about thinking bigger and more and more strategic thoughts towards mass market appealing, global dominance, goal setting and match corporate projections. Do you think that's the difference between Paris and New York or was that just the difference between those two agencies? I think it's both. It's like, you know, you have one of the chicest boutique agencies in the world, you know, in the very artistic city.

12:31Presumably you had a much smaller board. But the detail matters. Every detail matters. And it's the go-to agency. That's where people go to if you want really that someone's taking care of the detail. And New York, it's America. Everything is big. So it speaks for itself. And IMG has been the industry leader for a very long time now. So you go there when you want to really break out and become a star and not necessarily limited to the fashion industry. It could be entertainment. It could be going into various angles.

13:17Let's talk about your launching Iconic. You launched in 2006. What was your vision at the time? How did that move back from New York happen? Well, it was always my dream to have my own agency with a focus on personal management rather than representing a name in front of a customer. For me, it was always about setting coerceive goals and strategizing towards an individual plan of action. in New York, this wasn't really possible for me because I was focusing on projections and more, you know, more than on the creative process itself. So I was running point on around 20 girls. The amount of work I took has been quite overwhelming.

14:05And so I decided to move somewhere quieter and to focus on the foundation. Right. Okay. So you always had in the back of your mind that you were going to have your own agency one day. Was that always going to be in Germany? Yeah, it was, you know, coming from Germany, knowing how people work there, I thought I could make a difference and give talent with special needs and preference a new, better home than other agencies eventually could give. I chose Berlin for various reasons. It was the most talk city back then and growing fast. It felt more like pioneering and commuting for me. Also, back then in those days, I was also at IMG.

14:52I was part of a task force to develop the idea of the Berlin Fashion Week and make it profitable for IMG. And I remember speaking… Because that was launched, that was 2007 was the first in Berlin. Yes, and then we moved in 2006. Yes. So you were involved in that. We were very. So we did the projections, we did a lot of back-end work. This didn't come from nowhere. No, okay. It was not me alone. So you already knew about Berlin Fashion Week before you founded Iconic. That work had been going on behind the scenes for quite a long time. No, it's since 2004. Okay, fantastic. Okay. So, like, from the, you know...

15:31But once you left IMG, were you still, like, did you have their support to set up on your own, to leave and set up? Were they still happy to work with you? IMG was amazingly supportive in so many ways. And, you know, as I said, like, you know, that's the thing, you know, like, you leave, the door is always open. You know, that's also, like, what Ivan said to me, like, many years ago. He said, the door is always open. And sometimes it's not about reinventing the wheel, but you can reinvent the deal. And I did what I did. IMG was not the number one agency who supported me back then. It was someone else.

16:14But they were supportive indeed. And I said, IMG has been my best partner since 20 years. So we can call it like this. I think that was what I've found has come with age and experience. There's never any point falling out with anyone either. You know, it's important to always keep the door open. You know, you might have a little disagreement about something, but actually that might feel different at the time than it does a week, a month, whatever later. And it's always better to shake hands and just agree to disagree. No, absolutely. one day they hate you, the next day they love you.

17:00Talk to me about Berlin Fashion Week. How was that set up and how were you involved in that? Well, when I started actually with Germany, it was just a different, you know, a touching ground here was different. You know, because when you work for 10 years in Paris and you come back then, And, you know, I had the, you know, the board was like Leah, Kebede, Rossi Huntington, Angela Lindvall, Envy, Linda Wojtova, Caroline Ribeiro, Elsa Hosk, Minnie Anden. These were like the days, the girls, the talent I started with. And then, you know, they were all quite expensive. Yeah. But it gave me, it gave the company a good image and therefore also a lot of leverage, you know, from the start.

17:50and it was easy to be scouting a lineup of new faces who could perform during the Berlin Fashion Week. I've been working on Germany for all those years and direct bookings, etc. So I was never really away. I was just not here. So it was like coming home for me somehow. And Germany's economy was very strong and we had the 15 or 20 or 30K bookings. I had them back then. I have them today. So customers have been very faithful with me always. And so we did our numbers. And 2007 was the shows. We were quite advanced because nobody here had an idea really how to book shows. And this is what I did for many years.

18:42And then it took the other agencies not that long, though. but you know it we were like literally like the first two three seasons it was like easy for us to get all the girls into the shows and but then it started with package deals and I'm not such a big fan of package deals especially when you have a boutique agency but but in the end of the day you know the opening building an image closing in on the on the right events with the right bookings

19:18you've seen the german model agency change massively over the last three decades what did it look like when you were starting out compared to now what are the main differences this wasn't really an easy part for me i started my career in paris in new york so shows here became uh you know shows became a standard for me but lowering standards nobody nobody can never like is good in lowering standards so i had to have a different understanding about the market and how to move forward um and throughout the years i've seen a lot of talent also coming out of berlin but usually they they disappear after a couple of couple of seasons this talent i mean like designers and and uh it's it's usually due to the lack of funding or moving somewhere else mostly Paris, where they have better opportunities, better funding.

20:12And basically, the thing about Berlin, there's a saying about Berlin, it's like poor but sexy. So I'm not sure Berlin is so sexy. But as a matter of fact, there is no money here, at least not with longevity. And that has been always a problem with Berlin. People come, people go. What's the difference between Hamburg, Munich, Berlin? Are they different? Because Germany is quite a big country. You've kind of got the three. It's completely diversified. You have a lot of small markets. There's also Frankfurt, Stuttgart. You know, the US advertising, the advertising industries all over. And the agencies are mostly based in Hamburg because of the Otto Versand and all the suppliers there.

21:02So an advertising industry. and Munich has been more magazine oriented, but also has fashion companies there. And Berlin just came, I think, much, much later. But because it had the cool image, it was like everybody wanted to be there. And everybody also in New York, nobody spoke about Hamburg or Munich. Everybody spoke about Berlin. Yeah, because it's got more of a kind of gritty perception, I think. Whereas I think Hamburg and Munich, you kind of think you know it's always been very known as a very commercial market catalog yeah so this is like and here uh you know look go around the streets nowadays like you go to coffee coffee places you don't you know people don't speak German with you it's like they even ask you can you speak in English because it's just really a very diversified super international city and And, you know, it's a big hub for creativity and like not only in fashion.

22:02Let's talk about art. Let's talk about real estate, culture. You know, it's like events. Events is the biggest city in Germany in regards to where, you know, events take place or shootings. You know, so there's photo shootings, productions. and we had like numerous inquiries from from all over the world where people also like ask specifically okay let's do a boutique a veneta show uh we want girls from from berlin do you who do you have so and you don't you don't have these you never have this kind of inquiries uh you know in munich or in in hamburg you know so for me in 2006 um i really foresaw these kind of you know role Berlin would actually transform in.

22:51And I wanted to, you know, with the vision I had for Iconic, I wanted to be part of the new Germany and not go back there where I started.

23:07I'm going to take you back now. I'd love to just talk about Germany's history as the catalogue market. Because back in the day, there were those huge kind of catalogue productions, those huge great big thick catalogues um and you have the big supermodels flying in to shoot these catalogues but then they wouldn't say they'd done them because they didn't want those pictures in their books did they but the money was too good to kind of turn down i mean enabled them to do other stuff it wasn't wonderful it was it was really like that i always say we always say the golden days yeah because um you know it was everything that what you could call easy money and customers who take a top girl for an X amount of money, an X number of days and rebookings without that you have to do anything except for asking availability.

23:59It's kind of perfect. And some people got very rich during those times on both sides. And why not? And there's nothing wrong if everyone's happy. But sadly, those days are a little bit over for most of us. And it's more about very, very consistent workflow these days. And the catalogue, you know, the printed catalogue's obviously then evolved into e-commerce with the digital age. When was the last time you had a catalogue in your mail? I know. And do you know how expensive… And the little brands, the little premium brands will still put out their little lookbooks and things. It's also, you know, like it's all about productivity.

24:40you know like if you can streamline the costs you know so online is easy it's faster it's more efficient and it's it's quick is there still a lot of e-commerce here do a lot of models have that as their bread and butter work in germany still oh absolutely um you know you're probably now referring to uh zalando about you this kind of stuff yeah well yeah with the internet being being dominant, everything just got more accessible and therefore demanding more shoots. Models are therefore changed more often for diversification. Model agencies are looking constantly for new talent. The scouting of talent became the ultimate business and the market is now over flooded with talented agencies who want a piece of the cake.

25:29For brands today, everything needs to work immediately and do and delivered and due to the limited time frames also within a rather limited budget yes yeah have you seen budget shrink yes absolutely and agencies have have to provide more for less yeah and more and mostly you know the creativity is killed in the process and that's that's the sad part for me you know like you sometimes you can live with the budgets and but also you see that the outcome is not there anymore it's just like okay whatever logo you put on looks all the same. That's the sad thing that we, it's fast fashion. Creativity has gone in many ways.

26:11Not entirely but it's very exclusive nowadays. And do you think that Germany is still one of the best commercial markets in the world? One of the strongest commercial markets? Germany has always been strong with volume. It still is. But it's changed. and it's just like you know you feel the change everywhere in the world Germany is one one of the countries and eventually you feel a bit more here than in other countries but if I would have someone now from the UK or from Spain from or elsewhere like sitting I would say no he is the same and also we don't really know with um obviously ai now entering the picture we're already seeing brands experimenting with ai generated models and creating model twins how do you think this is going to affect the e-commerce side of the business ai became the trend and the trend is here to stay i think it will be a little bit it's a little bit like when digital replaced analog photography.

27:22It's just going to take over on the mass market because you can scale it better. It will just cost much less and secure creative controls for the brand. And however, the ultimate luxury in my eyes will still be what we are providing as agencies to our best models. The question is who can afford that kind of luxury in future and is it enough for all those models and agencies out there today? I doubt it. How can we protect real models but still embrace the change because we can't ignore the changes here? You know, I'm very analog in many ways. So I like everything that's real. I believe in the near future, our additional job objective is to manage and license the Nile rights of the potential AI model, Nile name, image likeness.

28:19So in the end of the day, a success story happens when humans relate to a story they truly love. so the future is all about modern storytelling in the real world and in the metaverse hope that makes sense um this may sound beautiful but ai is is uh the biggest chance but also the biggest threat to to humankind in history and and and uh yes uh it will certainly take over many segments in our industry too. The key challenge for agents is how do we balance innovation with fairness and ethical responsibility in our industry. What we have to do is through monitoring unauthorized use, which means like implementing AI detection tools to track where and how models, image and likeness is being used.

29:14A. B. Educating talent on AI research Risks, helping models understanding their rights in an AI-driven world and what protections they may need. C, collaborating with brands and agencies working with the industry to establish fair guidelines on AI usage in the modeling industry and in contracts, therefore. And D, negotiating AI-specific clauses in contracts, ensuring models retain rights over their likeness and receive fair compensation if their image is digitally altered or recreated. I think trademark your face, like it starts in Denmark, with like the best example by far in the world right now.

30:13They say, look, everybody has the right to trademark his face. If you take a picture from the web, do you consider it rights-free? So I think it's about responsibility that, you know, you cannot bring your AI to court. But the people who use AI, they need to be responsible for where AI gets the information. And that means tracking AI will become standard because we need to track where this is from. Because otherwise, this is going to be the Wild West in my eyes. It is. I think it is. I just can't see the AI companies agreeing to that. That's got to come from the politicians, hasn't it? Since June, we have a bill in place for New York only at the moment, for the state of New York, where the model has property over the AI.

31:20So their own AI, their own likeness. So that means also it's not part of the modeling contract. So we start also with the matter of fact that you, you know, as an agency, you cannot grant AI towards a third party. To a client, right, okay. Because literally, you know, you would actually endanger, you know, and actually do… It would be against the law? Yeah. It would be against the law because it's not part of the contract. You have a contract with a person, but the AI is literally a software. So you don't have a software license contract. So that's what we do. I mean, since one year, we already do exhibit to our contracts, which is allowing us to propose talent for the one or the other shooting where people are using AI for the background, for example.

32:18So we have a lot of paperwork. If you see ORPOs, they're like three pages of small, tiny writing, but it's important to protect the interests of the talent.

32:34Iconic is known for very personal management, you know, developing models for the long term. How do you scout new talent and what are you looking for? When I see that phase, I will know in a heartbeat. And if you know, you know, everything comes together. And nowadays, it's also important to be vocal, as I said already, not to mix up with the type of people who are just loud. And also, I really mean talent nowadays needs to deliver a message in style, humbleness, coolness, and creativity. There are stories. For example, I met this young girl on a rainy day in Berlin, very close to the Brandenburg Gate with her parents.

33:28And I just saw her for a moment and she came just my way. And then, you know, I saw her for a second and it was already weird because the parents saw that I looked at her. She was so young and she was like, hello. and then i was like should i go back and then then i you know then i apparently i ran back after it took me like 300 meters to decide that and then i found her and i said look i'm sorry it sounds super weird but modeling agent you know i know what i'm doing i really see you on the catwalk of prada would you give me a half year and that was my sentence in front of the parents oh wow so straight away you knew with the well you know i know it sounds crazy but here's my business card yes you know and the fun part was it worked out i sent it to ashley and she worked product so that happened wow okay because sometimes you think someone's nice and then they kind of turn around and you think oh no yeah no no and it's it's so creepy and to be honest i'm very personally because i know it's creepy i i'm very very shy about it so i i i do it only when i'm 100 sure and and uh and i'm married so usually i'm traveling everywhere with my wife and then i always go can you ask her i don't i mean feel like the older i get the more uncomfortable i feel because i know it's weird so i don't really like to do that but it's part of the job yeah Yeah, absolutely.

34:57And how do you balance the commercial work with editorial and fashion, getting that balance right? So ensuring they're earning a bit of money, but they're still creating the right image. Yeah, that's a very good question for me because I'm very German in a way. So I'm very down to earth about making money. And I think it's very important to respect everyone's own motivation and the different goals in life. But as an agent, it's my objective to understand who I represent and include it into the plan of action and understanding your talent and you know which way you need to go. and it's a little bit like lego you know building building something you know and then if you and your talent are open to more creativity and image then there are there are no no borders in a way and models want to be managed efficiently and you know so but but i think foundation first like we need to give someone the feeling that they're safe that's my job and then some girls are safe from home from from from from uh from the parent side or they don't they don't they don't need money they're fine and it's easier but also sometimes the ones who don't have money they're more hungry you know so but in the end of the day it's why it's like you have to walk hand in hand you need to you need to understand what what what what drives them and and how do you manage um your talent when presumably they're all over the world i'm a very hard worker though i think this is something like i really have in my genes so you know for me the nine to five was never existing i was the first one and the last one leaving always and you can ask my my bosses if you want to it's like i and it's the same you know still like you you if you know if you're on to something you know i i go out when the job is done and not when the time tells me i have to leave so i forget sometimes uh you know for you know to do the things myself or the small things in life but But, you know, if I have a goal, I go after the goal.

37:09So I'm 100 % on everything.

37:15How much weight do you give to a models online following when you're developing their career? I think it is not only for Germany, but also internationally the most powerful, powerful thing next to the portfolio. Why? It shows everything what the portfolio doesn't show. You know, it's your life journal and it's better be perfect because everyone loves to look behind the curtain, especially when you intend to hire a model for a brand or an editorial. and the story has to fit to the brand or ideally even the model has that kind of story overshadowing the brand, which we call image transfer and turns into money.

38:06So I can just advise everyone, just for a second, think clear, become your own publisher, be whatever title what makes you put you in this position be be a publisher be a director but look at your instagram and and host your channel don't give too much keep the attention span hungry but you know mix it up you know like spice it up diversify and uh and don't be boring you know so there's you know there's so many boring people outside don't be one of them yeah it's more than just posting your portfolio oh that's boring yeah that's boring people want to see you there's also this new generation of casting directors many of them completely over sensible sensitive and always driven by the next big cool thing and they want to be inspired you know and it's like you if you're looking at subculture that's also when you know why like berlin has a hype you know because there's a lot of street culture subculture here so they want to see trends you know and then trends develop they want to inspire and then how cool would a casting director feel when he's like on the board meeting and the designer and the stylist is there is like i have an idea what about this girl coolest style look and the way how she did the hair and then there's like guido saying oh my god that's amazing da da da so let's take the girl let's bring her in you know so like yeah you are you know you still can be inspiration you can still It will be part of the process if you do it right.

39:40But do not think that things just come, you know, the eagle doesn't land like this on your head. It's like, hey, winner.

39:52And looking ahead, what do you think the next 10 years of model management will look like? I believe the e-commerce will be AI driven. But the luxury brands need to be authentic. and in human history everyone failed who said anything against growth and productivity. Evolution will always come first and it depends on us humans, the governments and the politics, how we regulate the ethics and therefore also how we regulate AI. You've worked with some of the biggest names and brands in the world. You must have some really great stories. Can you share one or two for us that really capture the magic of the industry?

40:34I remember Natalia Vudenova. And she came to Viva in 2001. And I was a first agent and I booked her for some, you know, the first jobs, which was actually Otto. I'm not allowed to say that. She's still a supermodel. She put it in her book. So we had Otto. And I remember, you know, I spoke to the photographer and I was like, okay, be very careful. she's going to be a huge star. And she didn't even speak English. I remember telling Natalia, just if you don't understand, it doesn't matter. Just like, just always just smile, you know, and be happy. And then, you know, you can give people hugs, you know, so it's okay, you know.

41:16And the photographer called me like, and I said, Ingo, you're an idiot. Like, you know, the girl is absolutely amazing. Everybody loves her. She runs around, she hugs everyone. and she is not at all shy like and it was really like and i was like oh my god it's like uh but you know these kind of stories and then also like a first campaign i think was rocco barocco and the advertising campaign then you know i mean these things they stay in your in your memory and like 2004 uh you know you know there was this beautiful young smaller uh california girl coming to IMG and I was appointed to be her first agent, Lily Aldridge.

42:02So, and freshly signed and, you know, she was always amazing and she has this, like, you know, there was something about her which was just so unique and so we sent her to Mario Cerventi for an advertising and she actually got confirmed and then I thought, okay, he's a new girl you know i gotta go by uh the studio at like midday and just to see if everything works out fine and then i'm coming to the studio um at midday and you know and they're you know like kyle templar and mario and and lily were playing ping pong so like everybody was running and smiling and it was like are you guys done we're done already for two hours they were they were so happy about the pictures.

42:53I think this was one of the first jobs where everyone was like, oh my God, who's this girl? Then it started from there. Have you got any funny or chaotic moments you can share? Sometimes something happens and it's hideous at the time. I'm not giving names because everything remains being Prevolution Confidential. We had that supermodel who we booked for like a lot of money in New York, hair campaign German client and the model was really cool and one of those ones like too cool for school and I remember I called her the day before when she flew in from California and I was like honey do you need a car?

43:47I'm going to send you a car. said no don't worry I'm just gonna just just jump in a taxi instead so she came to the she landed in New York jumped in a taxi forgot her bag in a taxi and she was all day in tears because the ring from the grandmother was in the bag and it was a huge crisis because you know I had come to the shoot she was constantly crying to psychological like like you know the care of the talent and and and the and the customer as well the customer was the customer needs to get their shot they all came from germany and you know it was like oh that's crazy and uh you know and and and and on a um as a side as a as a side effect i i got so aware of every single taxi company existing in New York City.

44:41Because I called everyone and the tracing, trying to trace that lost luggage, you know, and because she couldn't remember the taxi ID. Did you find it? In the end, the bike found its way home, you know, actually came to IMG and so it was a happy end because even the pictures from the shoot came out quite nice. Oh, thank goodness. But it was like, honestly, like heartbeat was one of those days you could have done one of those days like yeah you don't want it to happen you don't want to repeat you want it to happen twice yeah

45:19are there any cities or experiences that stand out as particularly special where you you because you've traveled to so many different places i mean for me honestly i i uh i always loved the pr days for the perfume contracts i thought about it but like for example, I had the privilege to look after the daughter of the Prime Minister of France, Marie de Villepin. She did the Givenchy fragrance back in the days, shot with Mario Serenti. And then we had these beautiful trips everywhere, London and also Mauritius. And I had a blast with one of my best holidays. And, you know, these kind of trips are beautiful.

46:08And you just do a little bit of press and enjoy the rest of the day. I think as an agent, we don't often get to go, you know, on the shoots. We're doing all the work in the background. People think it's super glamorous and we're out on all the shoots. No, I love them most because everybody's more relaxed. I also had the privilege to meet Mr. Armani, you know, in the Italian embassy in Madrid when I was with one of my models for the Armani Code. And I mean, these kind of, you know, things, they just stay in your head.

46:48What keeps you passionate about model management and what you do? Guiding a career with insight and experience and connecting the dots is still what I love the most. and you're learning something new every day, whether it's from the team, from the talent or the customer. And I simply love managing models. And I generally care for the models I sign. They know that and also they know I'm always there for them and trust that I will manage their situation. So that gives me a lot of good vibes. And that's, I think, it's important. When you look back on your career, what are you proudest of? Well, I always did what I wanted to do.

47:40And without exception and regrets, I mean, sometimes you have regrets, but, you know, if you see the bigger picture, I always set the goal and reach it earlier or later, this way or another, with consistency, perseverance, and passion for what I do and the models I represent. And if you could go back and give advice to your younger self, as if you were just starting out at Viva, what would you tell the young Ingo? Stay close to yourself. Don't bend too much. Focus on your dreams and find your inner balance and peace. It's very important. I think it's important to know your values find work you really love because it can be fun to work hard and just start don't wait until tomorrow and you can do it basically success doesn't arrive with a gift certificate for Christmas you can wait 100 years it won't happen don't be afraid to make the first step invest and be ready to get disappointed.

48:56It's part of the process. Hard work will pay off always. But it may take time. And, you know, let your actions talk for you and be a voice and not an imitation.

49:14Ingo, thank you so much. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening to The Business of Modelling from Berlin. You can find out more about Iconic Management and their work at iconicmanagement.com. I'm Tessa Dewing, and I'll see you next time.